# Episode 22 :: The Electric Bat Cast **Source:** Electric Bat Cast **Type:** podcast_episode **Published:** 2024-12-23 **Duration:** 85m 47s **Beat:** Pinball **URL:** https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/cale630/episodes/Episode-22--The-Electric-Bat-Cast-e2slag1 --- ## Analysis Cale and Rachel from Electric Bat Arcade in Tempe, Arizona discuss upcoming tournaments (including Metallica launch party with Jackson guitar giveaway), November earnings data showing X-Men as #1 earner, Jersey Jack vs. Stern game performance comparisons, and respond to Derek from Kalamazoo's inquiry about opening a pinball bar. Key finding: Godzilla uniquely sustains 75% of peak earnings after 3 years; Sterns generally outperform Jersey Jacks for location profitability. ### Key Claims - [HIGH] X-Men is Electric Bat's #1 earner for November, significantly ahead of #2 (Godzilla), with a recent update driving engagement — _Cale discusses coin box weight and recent X-Men update; confirmed as at least third higher earnings than second place_ - [HIGH] Godzilla has earned 60,000+ plays over 3 years and still earns 75% of its peak monthly earnings — _Rachel presents earnings analysis data; described as unprecedented performance with no other game performing similarly_ - [HIGH] Avatar dropped 36% in its second month; typical Jersey Jack games drop ~29-33% month-over-month before leveling at ~30% of peak — _Rachel presents detailed earnings spreadsheet analysis comparing Godfather, Toy Story, Avatar across multiple months_ - [HIGH] Stern games (Foo Fighters, Jaws, John Wick) have higher absolute earning power and better ROI than Jersey Jack machines for location operators — _Rachel's comparative earnings data; noted as factual observation not influenced by sponsorship despite Stern partnership_ - [MEDIUM] James Bond film rights were purchased by Amazon for over $6 billion; Broccoli family (IP holders) must approve all content and are reportedly unfavorable to Amazon — _Cale references recent article about Bond licensing complexity; admits skimming details; Broccoli family approval requirement described as extremely strict_ - [HIGH] Electric Bat traded Alien Shooter (ranked #14 earner) for Judge Dredd because shooter occupied space of two pinball machines; bartender Brandon disliked it due to noise and gun maintenance issues — _Cale and Rachel discuss trade rationale; Game Room Goodies facilitated the trade_ ### Notable Quotes > "Godzilla is just like a freak of pinball as far as earnings go. I've never seen a game. Right? I mean, there's no other game that performs like Godzilla." > — **Rachel**, ~50:00 > _Highlights unprecedented earning longevity; central finding of earnings analysis segment_ > "The Sterns have a higher earning power and a higher earning power relative to initial investment. So if you're going to pay $7,000 for a new game or $12,000 for a new game, I need the $12,000 game to justify itself." > — **Rachel**, ~54:00 > _Clear statement of location operator ROI expectations; challenges Jersey Jack premium pricing_ > "Toy Story is the most steady earner. If I was to recommend somebody buy one for location, Toy Story is easily the one I would recommend them to get. But I really wouldn't recommend any of them [Jersey Jacks] for location." > — **Rachel**, ~44:00 > _Qualified endorsement of specific JJP machine; general discouragement of brand for commercial operators_ > "The biggest plus here is they already have a business in the plaza...and they have a potential partner. The first thing I would worry about is this buddy, somebody you can do business with." > — **Cale**, ~65:00 > _Prioritizes business partnership viability over game selection for new operators_ > "We have a lot of buddies that I wouldn't want to do business with, not because I don't like them, not because I don't trust them, but it's a very different thing." > — **Rachel**, ~66:00 > _Addresses friend-partner compatibility; references industry incidents ending in litigation_ > "I'm probably not going to win this [Battle of the Bat Belt]. I'm a very optimistic person, but I'm also realistic." > — **Rachel**, ~27:00 > _Reveals competitive field of 33-35 qualified players; shows humility despite expertise_ > "We will be there [for tournaments]. Us and the roaches. [About nuclear war]" > — **Cale**, ~15:00 > _Humorous commitment to tournament schedule regardless of circumstances; establishes reliability brand_ > "James Bond licensing is extremely strict...I'm impressed that Stern actually pulled it off at all, just seeing how difficult it is." > — **Cale**, ~37:00 > _Recognition of licensing complexity; validates George Gomez's role in securing rights_ ### Entities | Name | Type | Context | |------|------|---------| | Cale Hernandez | person | Co-host of Electric Bat Cast; operator of Electric Bat Arcade in Tempe, Arizona; provides earnings analysis and business advice | | Rachel | person | Co-host of Electric Bat Cast; operator of Electric Bat Arcade; performs detailed earnings analysis comparing Stern vs. Jersey Jack performance; provides business mentorship to aspiring operators | | Electric Bat Arcade | organization | Pinball arcade and bar venue in Tempe, Arizona; hosts tournaments and serves as data source for earnings analysis; operates ~14-20+ pinball machines | | Stern Pinball | company | Major pinball manufacturer; games in Electric Bat earnings analysis (James Bond Premium, Metallica Remastered); sponsor of podcast; noted for superior location earnings vs. Jersey Jack | | Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Premium pinball manufacturer; Avatar, Godfather, Toy Story analyzed in earnings segment; games show 30-40% earnings retention; generally underperform Stern for location ROI despite $12k+ pricing | | Marco Specialties | company | Pinball parts distributor; podcast sponsor; offering EBA150 free shipping code for orders over $150 to Electric Bat listeners | | Game Room Goodies | company | Pinball machine distributor/retailer; facilitated Alien Shooter-to-Judge Dredd trade for Electric Bat; owned by Aaron | | X-Men | game | Stern pinball machine; #1 earner at Electric Bat for November; recent update improved scoring and engagement; used in tournament finals | | Godzilla | game | Spooky pinball machine; #2 earner for November; 3+ years on floor; 60,000+ plays; retains 75% of peak monthly earnings—unprecedented longevity in location performance | | Avatar | game | Jersey Jack Pinball machine; premium tier; dropped 36% in second month; only Electric Bat machine with this theme in Arizona Valley; limited earnings data (2 months) | | Godzilla (earnings comparison) | product | Three-year data source; 75% peak earnings retention; Rachel describes as statistical outlier vs. other games | | Pulp Fiction | game | Stern Premium; #3 earner for November; Electric Bat's highest-earning game of all time; retains 40% of peak earnings | | Jaws | game | Stern Premium; #5 earner; shows unusual upward trend post-launch with code updates/challenge modes; retains 60% of peak earnings | | John Wick | game | Stern Premium; #11 earner for November; compared favorably to Jaws in earnings retention (~40%) | | James Bond Premium | game | Stern Premium; #7 earner; earnings doubled in November due to 'Tops' tournament and competitive play; strict licensing from Broccoli family/IP holders; George Gomez credited as key to securing rights | | Metallica Remastered | game | Stern Spike 2 remake of classic Metallica; launching January 12 at Electric Bat with Jackson V-shaped guitar giveaway; enhanced animations, LCD art, new songs, wizard modes; partnership with Fender for prizes | | Toy Story | game | Jersey Jack Pinball; steadiest JJP earner; acquired used; recommended for location purchase over other JJP machines; retains ~30% of peak earnings | | Godfather | game | Jersey Jack Pinball; analyzed for earnings retention (~33% of peak); removed from Electric Bat after 7-8 months; moved to another location | | Alien Shooter | game | Arcade shooter; #14 earner; traded away from Electric Bat; occupied space of two pinball machines; noise issues and gun maintenance problems; replaced by Judge Dredd | | Judge Dredd | game | Classic pinball machine; acquired by Electric Bat in trade for Alien Shooter; Rachel's personal favorite; described as 'clean copy' | | Derek (Kalamazoo) | person | Email correspondent; owns/operates independent bookstore-coffee-bar for 16 years; considering opening pinball bar with business partner; owns 15 machines (EM to classic Bally to modern Godzilla); seeks advice on readiness and expectations | | Broccoli family | person | IP rights holders for James Bond franchise; extremely strict approval process for all content; reportedly unfavorable to Amazon regarding James Bond film/media projects | | George Gomez | person | Stern designer; credited as 'huge fan' of James Bond; likely instrumental in securing restrictive James Bond licensing deal; acknowledged as knowing Bond trivia extensively | | Brian Penny | person | Competitive pinball player at Electric Bat; defeated Rachel in X-Men during series finals; described as 'really good' and 'good guy' | ### Topics - **Primary:** Location operator earnings analysis and profitability, Jersey Jack Pinball vs. Stern Pinball game performance comparison, Electric Bat Arcade tournament schedule and community events, Starting a pinball bar/arcade business: partnership vetting and prerequisites, Long-term game performance retention and code update impact - **Secondary:** IP licensing complexity (James Bond case study), Game machine trading and space optimization decisions, Metallica Remastered launch and promotion strategy ### Sentiment **Positive** (0.78) — Enthusiastic tone about X-Men success, Metallica launch, and business mentorship. Measured optimism about Jersey Jack machines tempered by ROI concerns. Supportive community focus. No significant negativity toward manufacturers despite commercial analysis. ### Signals - **[business_signal]** Partnership compatibility identified as critical success factor for new pinball bar operators; cautionary examples of friend-partner disputes ending in litigation noted (confidence: high) — Rachel: 'We have seen a few instances of people getting into business with their friends in this industry and it going south very quickly...incidents have all ended up in a courtroom' - **[business_signal]** Godzilla's sustained 75% peak earnings retention after 3 years represents unprecedented game longevity; described as statistical anomaly with no comparable performance (confidence: high) — Rachel: 'Godzilla is just like a freak of pinball as far as earnings go. I've never seen a game...no other game that performs like Godzilla.' 60,000+ plays confirmed. - **[business_signal]** Jersey Jack Pinball games show consistent earnings decline pattern (30-40% of peak after 6-7 months), with Godfather data excluded post-transfer; raises questions about JJP location viability vs. $12k+ pricing (confidence: high) — Rachel presents 2+ months data on Avatar (36% drop), Godfather (29% month 2, 25% month 3), comparing to Stern durability; concludes Stern games justify premium investment better - **[community_signal]** Electric Bat maintains robust tournament calendar with special events (Chewy's tournaments, Battle of the Bat Belt, launch parties); 33-35 qualified competitors indicates active competitive community (confidence: high) — Multiple tournament formats discussed (IFPA points, Flip Frenzy format, series finals); Metallica launch party planned with merchandise prizes from Stern and Fender - **[sentiment_shift]** Positive community response to X-Men update and Metallica remaster announcement; Metallica described as 'fantastic game' with standout LCD animations and bat-themed artwork custom to Electric Bat (confidence: high) — Cale: 'What an amazing game it is...fantastic game'; Rachel: 'There are bats in [it], there are animated bats. I think Stern did that for us.' Game used in tournament finals successfully. - **[licensing_signal]** James Bond pinball licensing represents extreme complexity; Amazon paid $6B+ for film rights but Broccoli family (IP holders) maintain veto power on content; reportedly unfavorable to Amazon partnership (confidence: medium) — Cale references recent article (skimmed); notes Broccoli family 'took the money and ran' while restricting usage; Stern credited for successfully navigating restrictions; George Gomez likely key figure in deal - **[personnel_signal]** Derek from Kalamazoo seeks mentorship on opening pinball bar despite self-described limited technical expertise; owns 15 machines over 5 years indicating serious commitment but relying on external support (confidence: high) — Derek's email: 'I'm not the greatest tech in the world but I've learned a whole heck of a lot'; owns diverse collection (EM to modern Godzilla); seeks guidance on readiness questions - **[personnel_signal]** Dusty (Electric Bat bartender) leverages Fender employment to secure Jackson V-shaped guitar as Metallica launch party prize; indicates cross-industry networking for venue partnerships (confidence: high) — Rachel: 'Our bartender, Dusty, works for Fender and she scored us a guitar to give away.' Tagged guitar included in prize package alongside Stern and venue-contributed prizes. - **[product_strategy]** Stern Premium tier (James Bond, Jaws, Foo Fighters) demonstrates superior earnings ceiling and retention vs. Jersey Jack Premium ($12k+ pricing); earnings justify higher initial investment (confidence: high) — Rachel compares identical launch periods: Foo Fighters drops same percentage as Godfather but 'starts a lot higher and finishes off much higher' despite both $12k class; Jaws retains 60% vs JJP 30-40% - **[product_strategy]** X-Men recent update drives significant engagement increase; becomes #1 earner (surpassing 3-year veteran Godzilla) with noticeably heavier coin box collection (confidence: high) — Cale notes needing two hands for coin box weight; Rachel attributes jump to 'cool update recently' with scoring changes; used successfully in tournament finals - **[technology_signal]** Older pinball machines (pre-Spike) consume substantial electrical power; power infrastructure critical for location viability, requiring accurate breaker labeling and dedicated circuits (confidence: high) — Cale advises Derek: 'Especially for the older games, they're hogs' and 'very important that your breaker box is accurately labeled'; kitchen equipment power conflicts identified as risk --- ## Transcript Head to sternpinball.com to sign up today. Marco's Specialties, everything pinball, pinball parts and more at marcopinball.com. And Game Room Goodies, check out gameroomgoodies.com for new and used pinball machines, arcade games, jukeboxes, pool tables and more. And now, the Sherlock and Watson of pinball, Rachel Bess and Cale Hernandez. Coach. Yeah, come on, coach. Let's, let's. What's so funny? You're always doing stuff, right? I don't know about all that. All right, let's get to it. Welcome to the Electric Batcast. My name is Cale. I'm Rachel. And we're the bats. We're the bats, the main bats. We're the bats. We operate Electric Bat Arcade out of Tempe, Arizona, and we're here to tell you all about operating pinball machines and everything we deal with when it comes to pinball machines. Sorry about that. I just had to mess with the setting there. I'm going to get into what's coming up at the bat. All right. So we can knock that out. Yeah. And then we can get into the meat and potatoes, the earnings report. You have earnings report. I've got some good information about earnings this month. I'm excited about that, and I'm sure the audience is, too. And then we have the mail bag. Oh, yeah. Lots of mail. What's coming up at the bat? We have Chewy's fourth annual Christmas tournament. That is on Christmas Day. At 6.30. P.M. 6 30 p.m and and we're open at 6 30 a.m but that's there's no tournament yeah we will have actually been open for a half hour we open at 6 a.m every day even christmas uh and this is this is not an ifpa tournament this is just for fun no and we've done it for you know all the people that are in in town for the holidays and they want to come out and have a good time yeah they want to maybe they've spent too much time with their family and would like to spend some time with their friends. But also bring your family. Yeah, bring your family. Bring your friends. Bring some leftover cookies. Ooh. Bring a good time. Bring some turkey and all that stuff and come hang out with us. There's always a big crowd. We like to take in, that's kind of like the annual Electric Bat family photo. Yeah, we always take a group photo. And Chewy has all of them. He's comparing them and it keeps getting bigger and bigger. Yeah. And then we have another Chewy thing. He's busy this month. Chewy's World Famous Bounty All Classics Knockout. You switched it around there. That was actually a typo on my part. I went back and added it, and I added it in the wrong spot. But, yes, it's All Classics Bounty Knockout. Thank you for doing that. We appreciate your due diligence. So that's Chewy's World Famous All Classics Bounty Knockout. That's Sunday, December the 29th at noon. And this is a particularly important tournament. Yes. Because I believe in Arizona it's the last chance to get some worthwhile IFPA points, whopper points. Some big whopper points. And there's a lot of people shoveling around that 24th spot. So this could actually change state standings in a way that matters. the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat which side are are you more on i'm on i'm on the thrill of victory i'm i'm every day i'm winning i'm winning whether i'm winning or losing i'm i'm winning absolutely winning uh also for league night christmas eve and new year's eve yeah people keep asking us about this right we don't stop our tournaments are every single Tuesday, whether it be Christmas Eve, whether it be a New Year's Eve, whether it be a nuclear war, we are going to have a Tuesday tournament. A nuclear war. I might take off for that one, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We will be there. Us and the roaches. Okay. Okay, and then we have a Metallica launch party. I'm excited about this. man well i don't know if i don't know if it's in the notes but we have the metallica remastered and boy what a uh what an amazing game it is a fantastic game and i'm really interested earnings wise how this is going to do because everyone has played the original metallica for a long time and this one is an improved version of that but it's not significantly you know it's not like they switched around scoops and things. It's the same basic layout. It looks amazing. It's got, I mean, everything on that LCD. I love that LCD art. It is my favorite of all of the... The animation, the style of art. Yes. There are bats in, there are animated bats. There's a lot of bats in it. And Stern did that for us. Yep. I'm pretty sure. Sure. But, man, the game is just improved in every single aspect. You have your Spike 2 flipper feel. You have the animations. You have the sound. Man, it sounds good. Sounds great. New songs. And the art. You mentioned the art in the display, the animations and the art style in the display, which is incredible. the play field art and the cabinet art. Man. And new wizard modes and things. It's freaking sweet. It's fantastic. So we're having a launch party for that. And we were so lucky because our bartender, Dusty, works for Fender. And she scored us a guitar to give away. Yes. We are giving away a Jackson. And it's a V-shaped guitar. It's not a flying V. It looks like a flying V to me. Another company makes a flying V. Yeah. That's a Gibson. This is, one of our friends on social media let us know that. I don't know. I was a musician, but I played drums. I don't know. You can't be expected to know everything about everything. I know your General Guitars, your Les Paul, your SG, your Paul Reed Smith, and your Fender Stratocaster and Telecaster. I didn't know the difference in the V-shaped guitars. And you learn something new, hopefully every day, but sometimes just every week. And that week I learned about, I think the Jackson's called a Rhodes or something like that. Write in to us and let us know. Anyhow, you win a Jackson V-shaped guitar. This is a real guitar. Brand new. Yeah. So it has the tags on it. And we're giving it away randomly. so anybody has the opportunity it's going to be a drawing okay but you have to play in the tournament yeah you have anybody well anybody who plays in the tournament okay can win it um cool and that that is sunday january the 12th at noon you can win a guitar there there's also some other prizes oh yeah from from fender there's some other prizes from fender there's some other prizes from stern there's some prizes from us it's going to be a prize heavy party prize palooza Yeah, this is the prize-a-palooza that Metallica played at. And then also we want to mention a thank you to Marco's Specialties. They're offering the listeners a free shipping code for any order over $150, which is easy to do in pinball. The code is EBA150. The number is 150. so the eba are letters and then the 150 is numbers eba 150 there you go that's probably a better way to say zero yeah 150 right with a little line yeah uh yeah so uh thank you to marco specialties for that and taking care of our our listeners and viewers if you guys are watching us on youtube you can also watch us on spotify you know what's cool um i have spotify on the PS5 in the living room there. Oh. And you can watch podcasts. We can watch ourselves on PlayStation. We can watch us. We can watch... Oh, other people also. We can also watch other people, yeah. All right, fantastic. Now that we have that out of the way... We have the Battle of the Bat Belt coming up, too. Oh, that wasn't even listed, and I'm glad you remember. Tell me about the Battle of the Bat Belt. So the Battle of the Bat Belt is for anybody who's played in our tournaments throughout 2024 and made it into the top 24 of three or more tournament series. So the series are six week blocks of tournaments. If you make it into the finals by qualifying in the top 24, then you are eligible to win the bat belt. our gigantic, cool wrestling belt. And I don't remember the, I calculated it, I think it's 33 people or 35 people are in the running for this, including you. What a surprise. You, you. I'm in it. I'm not in it. You are in it. I'm going against some stiff competition. Yes. I'm probably not going to win this. I'm a very optimistic person, but I'm also realistic. You're going to have a great time. So that will be Sunday, January 5th at noon. Yeah, very good. Fantastic. Are you ready for the earnings report? Yeah. Or do you want to get into some? Because I think people are excited to get into this, and we'll get into some viewers' questions. But I'm actually excited about this earnings report because you've really – I've got some extra data in addition. I'll go through the top numbers, and then I'll talk about some details about it. what month is this for november okay uh all right so november i'm gonna start with number 14 today instead of 10 because number 14 was the alien shooter game the alien shooter game is no longer at the bat what happened we sold it oh actually we traded it okay um And I am not sure about – we're always telling people to get shooters and that sort of stuff because they earn well. This earns well. There was a couple of different factors that played into us getting rid of it. Right. And we chose to trade it out because even though it earns a lot, I mean it's still earning a lot. We've had it for a long time and it's the 14th highest earner in the arcade right now. um it takes up the room of two pinball machines and our bartender one of our bartenders our main bartender brandon uh hated it that was so sometimes because it was uh it was loud and then people would always knock the guns off oh yeah and we had these mats underneath it but even then we and we had to fix the guns from time to time. So it was just sort of, we were weighing pros and cons, and we just happened to have an opportunity. Can I talk about what we got? That's up to you. Yeah, well, we picked up a really, really clean Judge Dredd, which is one of my favorite games, and I used to have it. I don't have it now, and I would like to have it again. And this was a clean copy, and it came up surprise. All right. I know. Yeah, and we – Game Room Goodies. That's right. Valued sponsor of the show hooked us up with that thing. Yeah. And if you want to get hooked up with the cool game, check out GameRoomGoodies.com, and Aaron can take care of you. Yeah. So we'll see if that was – ended up being an okay move or kind of a dumb move. Right. But, you know, it's a move. Well, the biggest thing on the way I view it on my side, the Aliens game, it was such a display of force. It was a huge 800-pound behemoth with a gigantic monitor. It just looked cool. And we both like that aspect of it. And it was a good earner. But we really, since the tournaments have gotten so huge, we need good pins that are tournament ready. And this took the spot of two of those. Right. And then so when you're thinking about it financially also, does one high-earning shooter versus two, let's just say, average pins, you know, it kind of works out to about the same financially. But I don't, you know, you never know if that's how the math is actually going to work out. Right. So we'll see. All right. So in number 13, Black Knight, number 12, Jurassic Park, number 11, John Wick. Now we'll get into the top 10. This is what we've been waiting for. The top 10 for this will be November, correct? This is November. Right. And we're going to do a year-long wrap-up next month. So whenever we record in January, I'll have all of the 2024 data. So you'll have the whole, we'll do the month and then also the year. That'll be a fun one. That'll be really interesting. Yeah, I like that. Okay, so in number 10, Elvira House of Horrors. That's a great one. Number nine, Medieval Madness. And I think this is due to one guy that comes in. He's great. We love this guy. He's in there every day playing only Medieval Madness. Right. Number eight, Stranger Things. Good game. Number seven, James Bond Premium. that's the cornerstone uh game and that the earnings actually i'm looking at the numbers right now and they doubled wow doubled actually tiny bit more than doubled that was the game of the month that's why and there were some serious battles for uh you know the cash game of the month the tops it's called tops right the tops tournament we also had that new translate where we were you know we were trying to debate so all that together all that together brought it brought it up a good bit you know i um i i i read a an article recently about james bond yes and and i skimmed it so i might get some of this information wrong some of the details but i wasn't aware of all this and it just made me think once i read this article it made me think of what stern had to go through as far as licensing and i'm sure it's not just that game but man um the james bond licensing is extremely strict i didn't know this but apparently amazon what jeff bezos the visa whole of whole foods of whole foods fame uh uh they they bought the rights to do the james bond movies uh and it was for like over six billion dollars with a b yeah and um anyhow um but they're they're in a they're in kind of a pickle right now because i guess part of the contract the the broccolis have to approve everything and they apparently are not fans of amazon so they're not letting them do any movies or anything they took the money and ran stuff yeah i guess so i mean uh What's up, suckers? There's some quotes from the family. They kind of feel like Amazon's kind of like Walmart. But they are extremely strict and very protective of that IP. So I'm impressed that Stern actually pulled it off at all, just seeing how difficult it is. And congratulations to the team at Stern for bringing that to us. You know, George is a huge fan. And yeah, I think George probably knows more James Bond trivia than the Broccoli's do. Absolutely. The Broccoli family, we should say. That is their last name. He's probably the reason it happened. Yeah. Man, it is. Licensing is no. It's a mystery. It's no joke. I'm glad that I don't. A lot of people don't understand how it works and how strict it can be. It's hard and I don't want to do it. So thanks to people that do. Okay. That's enough of that rat hole. What have we got next? In sixth, Big Buck. So this was what enabled us to move out the alien shooter. So Big Buck, plus it's got all the different zombie shooters. It's got a myriad of shooting. I think it's a better game. No, I don't think. It's a fact. It is a better game than the alien shooter. It's newer, more modern components. It has much more replay value because there's so many more games in it. And it basically takes the space of one pinball machine. Even a little bit less than that because it's not that deep. Yes. So if I was going to choose between buying the big buck reloaded versus, yeah, it's a no-brainer for us. Yeah. Right. And then in fifth place, Jaws. Okay. Fourth place, Avatar. Dropped a little bit. From number one. And if you'll recall, last month I said I expected it to go to about third or fourth. And you're always right. Not always right, but I was right about this. Third place, Pulp Fiction. Second place, Godzilla. Okay, no. Hold off. Drum roll. Okay. So Godzilla's there. I think Godzilla was second. so god i don't think godzilla changed from last month i'm not sure though probably not i think it was second place okay so we have second place last month we have a new number one game yeah can you guess what it might be i'm gonna say x-men good guess and yes the reason i thought because i had to empty the coin box yesterday of course it's been emptied many times throughout the month but all the other games were like i could tell we had we had collected money or the coins not too long ago but x-men was heavy i had to use two hands i had to go in there with two hands and and you're strong so i'm a big it's like a three hands for me right he's a third hand congratulations to to x-men in the number one spot and it was in the number one spot it's at least a third higher than number two. Good job. Well into number one. People are digging X-Men. And it had a cool update recently. Yeah, big update. Yeah. So the scoring's a little different. Everybody's having fun with it. And we used it in our series finals, which was a lot of fun. I lost on that game. Brian Penny. Oh, yeah. Kicked my butt. He's really good. I don't mind losing to him. What a good guy. Yeah. Who do you mind losing to? You know what? Nobody. I'm used to losing. We celebrate everyone's wins. Ours or other people's. We really do. You have, I like to call this a shlode of data. Yeah, shlode. You have some special data you want to go over. Yeah. And give us an introduction and let's get right into it. Okay, so this was when I was looking at the numbers, and I saw that Avatar did what I expected it to do. I thought, well, let me look at all the Jersey Jack numbers to see if I'm correct in what I think, how they perform. And then I thought, well, after I do that, I want to also have some other games to compare them to, so that there's some reference points. Sure. So, Avatar. Had a good... Some information that I'm going to give you is... Like, Avatar, I only have two months' worth of data. There not a lot of info but I can tell you that it dropped 36 from its first month And that about what I expected from what i seen jersey jacks do right uh godfather it whenever it was new it the second month it dropped 29 percent so around a third then the month after that about a quarter so 25 percent further um And then it just kept going down, and it leveled off about six to seven months in. And at that point, it was doing about 30, 31% of its peak performance. Okay. Right? And that's only – so it leveled off doing a third of its best month. and at the end i'm going to give you rankings for all of these as far as like when when that levels off well how high is that number right and it kind of goes to show what we've always said about games and paying them off and so forth toy story was kind of a different story uh-huh because when we got it into the arcade it wasn't a new game so everybody had probably played it before um and but it's actually of all of the jersey jacks toy story is the most steady earner and if i was to recommend somebody buy one for location toy store is toy story is easily the one that i would recommend them to get so it um but i really wouldn't recommend any of them for location but there's just much better choices see yeah some people i mean they're expensive you're you're immediately in the hole right deep in the hole well toy story by now you can probably get a used one that's a good point for a pretty you know because the prices on jersey jacks always like sink dramatically they do seem after release seem to do that yeah uh yeah so toy story if you can pick one of those up for the price of like a stern premium i think it's worth it right I think that's a good, and it's been not too, too many issues. So I would recommend that. It's also doing about a third of what it did at its very best. Okay, so now we'll compare some different, some Sterns. So Stern, Foo Fighters, I actually looked at Foo Fighters and Venom. Foo Fighters we had on the floor at the exact same time as Godfather. So these are like month-to-month comparisons. And it actually drops about the same. It averages out to dropping off about the same as Godfather does per month. But it starts a lot higher. And so it also finishes off doing about a third of its peak steadily, but that number is just much higher. And you figure you paid $12,000 for a Godfather, and we have a Foo Fighters Pro. So, I mean, that's what, like five grand less? That's $5,000 free. Right. Okay. So Jaws. We'll choose Jaws. it jaws goes down only by a little bit after its first month 16 percent um then it goes down another 25 percent but then it goes up it starts going up again so you're not seeing that steady drop and this may just be like the elwyn elwyn bumps you know you just elwyn makes and i'm guessing it's it's code updates and they added so many like little games right like the challenges So you do see that whenever the month that the challenge mode came out, the game goes up 8%. Yeah. So it's still a new – it's less than a year old. Right. And it's leveled off at 60% of its peak. So its best earning month was much, much higher than these other games, and it's still doing 60% of that. And WIC is not too different from that. WIC, I won't bore people with all of the specific numbers. If you really, really want the X percent, send me a message. um but that's also that's leveled off and it's still kind of too new to know um at about 40 percent of the peak pulp fiction this is a great one it it's also leveled off at about 40 percent of its peak month um but it's it was a record breaker it is our highest earning of any game It's the most that it has earned. And then Godzilla, I thought I would include just because I was so interested, because it seems to just defy logic with how it's always in the top three. Right. And this game has been on the floor for three years. It has over 60,000 plays. Yeah, I don't, it's, yes. And three years later, it's still earning 75% of its best month. Unbelievable. So that one, it's so far out of, like, if I was looking at these numbers and I wasn't sure that I was correct, I would, you know, if someone else handed these to me, I'd be like, I don't think this is right. Right. But it is. You would audit it. I would audit it. Yes. So Godzilla is just like a freak of pinball as far as earnings go. And I've never seen a game. Right. I mean, there's no other game that performs like Godzilla. I said I would give the relative, like, in order, of course Godzilla is the best earning. Pulp Fiction is just right under that. Then Jaws, Wick, Foo Fighters, Godfather, and Toy Story. Those are just in terms of average month. Foo Fighters, Godfather, and Toy Story are all about the same. And you're saying, well, you were saying all this stuff about Godfather. Why not include it? But remember, we took Godfather off the floor, I think, seven or eight months in. Right. Eight months in, I think. And we put it in another location. Right. And I'm not including any of that data from the other location because it does not. It just... So these other games that I'm comparing it to, I'm giving you numbers where they've been out much longer. and they're still earning relatively, I would say, more than that. So it just – the Sterns have a higher earning power. And I know they sponsor us and stuff, but this is just data. This is not – we have friends at all the companies. The Sterns have a higher earning power and a higher earning power relative to initial investment. So if you're going to pay, we'll say $7,000 for a new game or $12,000 for a new game, I need the $12,000 game to justify itself. And then there's always the stuff that you can't measure. Did somebody come in and play a whole bunch of Venom after they came into the arcade, specifically because we are the only arcade that has Avatar right now in the Valley? I don't know. I don't know that data. But that stuff is really interesting to me. Sorry if it's making your eyes glaze over. No, I guarantee you a lot of our friends are enjoying that data, especially the people in the industry. I think the industry, you know, they don't necessarily have access to everybody else's data or even maybe some of their own as far as how it performs on the street. So I think it's just really interesting behind-the-scenes stuff to see what earns what and if people on the Internet are correct. And the answer is usually no. I've noticed that. In case you were wondering. Does that conclude the earnings report? That concludes this segment of the earnings report. Fantastic. Thank you. And reporting in from Electric Bat Studios, Rachel, that was a fantastic lesson. I hope it was clear. Yeah, it was totally clear. Good deal. We're going to move on to the mailbag. All right. With Derek in Kalamazoo. Is that Derek I or Derek L? What is that? I think that was supposed to maybe say in Kalamazoo. Oh, I got you. This is Derek in Kalamazoo. That's in Michigan, right? Yeah. This is via email. Feels like kismet, as I have been re-listening to your old episodes lately as I try to make a decision about whether to launch a new project of my own. My wife and I have owned and operated an independent bookstore and coffee shop slash bar over the past 16 years. You would love to go to that. I did. I looked it up on the internet. He sent me a link. It looks very cool. All right. And if we ever go to Kalamazoo, it has to warm up. There's no way in hell I would go to Kalamazoo right now for over 16 years in what I call an outdoor shopping center, but definitely do not call a strip mall. Okay, it's a strip mall. Strip malls are great. I think we're in one of the oldest strip malls in America. West of the Mississippi. It's from the 60s, and it has not been updated. Anybody who's been to Electric Bat Arcade knows. It has not been updated. It has what we like to call character. It's called character. Back to Derek in Kalamazoo. A recently closed restaurant space has become available in the plaza, and I've been considering opening a pinball bar with a buddy who also owns and operates a bar slash restaurant. He would run and manage all of the food and liquor, and I would operate the machines. I'm only a little over five years into the hobby, but I've built up a collection of about 15 machines from an EM to classic Bally's to 90s Williams to a Godzilla. I'm not the greatest tech in the world, but I've learned a whole heck of a lot in a short time. The space probably has room for around 15 to 20 machines and a few classic arcade games. What would be your top three or four questions one should ask themselves to determine if they are ready to undertake such a venture? and top three or four things one should expect that most people perhaps don't think or know about going into operating thanks and hopefully to see you at the bat soon derek in kalamazoo so um venture um all right so you're thinking you might want to open up a pinball bar and restaurant What do you need to know? Right. The biggest plus here is they already have a business in the plaza. I see. That is a huge plus and that they have a potential partner, somebody who also already does the thing that they're trying to do, which is operating food and beverage, which is a very different industry than operating pinball machines. So that's in your corner right there, plus in your corner. The first thing, and what some people might not be thinking of, you know, they're going right into like games or what games should be there and how, you know. That is really not. Right. That's low on my list. The first thing I would worry about is this buddy, somebody you can do business with. That's a very good point. Right. We have a lot of buddies that I wouldn't want to do business with, not because I don't like them, not because I don't trust them, but it's a very different thing. Right, because there may be compromises, all that good stuff. Just different ideas. We've seen a few instances of people getting into business with their friends in this industry and it going south very quickly because they just have different ideas about what their goals are and what they want. Right, and the incidents you're talking about have all ended up in a courtroom, which is expensive for everybody. Yeah. Yeah, it hasn't been a pleasant separation for any of them. And also, like some of the stuff, even if you think you have the same beginning goals, like, hey, let's do this and make money. If me and you had set out to open the bat specifically to make money, we would not have maybe had the, we definitely would not have done things the way that we do them. Right. It's turned out to be profitable. just the way that we got there would be very different from somebody who wanted maybe who that was their primary goal the thing that gives me the red flag is that i'm not so great at teching that that's always and we've always said that teching is your that's that can be the make it or break it part yeah but i also think he um might be selling himself short because if he's been doing this for five years and owns 15 machines i bet he knows enough to pull something like this off um plus i mean they have a successful business you know this sounds like a smart guy yeah i don't yeah uh anybody who owns a bookstore Also, that gets a few pluses from me, right? You're probably a thoughtful person. Don't forget to read, people. As a side note, it is important to always have a book by the side of the bed. Or a thousand. And be reading. Yeah, reading is important. But, yeah, so the things that you do want to make sure that you have your tech stuff in line. So if you aren't super confident, is there someone in your area that can help out? He's in Kalamazoo. Isn't Clay up there in that area? Does he help people out? Can you call Clay and say come fix? There's a lot of good people up north up there. But other things you need to worry about, power. That's a huge thing. Do you have enough power in that? Especially for the older games, you know, with your modern, you know, a board set like Spike, you don't have to worry about power as much. But a lot of the older games, they're hogs. Yeah. If you have enough electricity, especially if you have kitchen equipment that you also have to balance that out with, maybe they're only expecting you to have, they've only got like one circuit dedicated to not kitchen. And that won't be enough for your. Right. And it's very important that your breaker box is accurately labeled. So when you're not there, the staff knows, you k now, once these machines and they will flip a breaker at some point, you know, make sure they know how to cut those things back on. Cool. Anything else you can think of? Well, I think the stuff that people, when we were talking to somebody else earlier this week about this, that maybe they didn't consider was insurance. But your restaurant buddy is thinking about insurance. Yes, 100%. They know about that. And just those extra costs that you... The licensing per game, depending on your city and county or state or whatever. Yeah, I don't know the Michigan licensing rules. um so yeah i think it sounds like you're like you're already there anyway right so it's not going to be if there's a problem at at the arcade you're a few doors down at the bookstore so that's a huge that's a really big i mean i if if this is a do rachel and kale give it a thumbs up thumbs down go for it i think if everything is else seems reasonable rent prices and all that i would say go for it why not you can send people from the bookstore to the arcade right do some cross promo there oh man back and forth do i mean there's there's a lot of opportunity you win a pinball tournament you get to go pick out a free book i would play there all the time yeah yeah derek this sounds like a great grand idea and i give it uh five out of five skulls five out of five skulls yeah go for it keep us posted good luck derek now from inner orbit pinball on instagram i have a question for the show go follow in inner orbit pinball on instagram we follow them it's a fun account i have a question for the show i route games in a traditional revenue split i'm getting more interested in doing something like you where i might sublet out of an existing bar or brewery i would really like to have my own bar slash location someday and that seems like a good way to do a trial run and also have more control over the decor and vibe of the space. That's important. How would you, here's your question, how would you negotiate rent for something like that? I know there would be a lot of variables like number of machines, open hours, square footage of the space, etc. It sounds fun, but I can see rent being higher than what six to eight machine lineup would earn. Maybe they would do a trial month and base rent on a percentage of earnings? I don't know. Help. Love the show and thanks for sharing all this knowledge to us listeners and David Fix. What? I don't know if David listens to us. Although on the most recent Loser Kid, I have their shirt on right now, most recent Loser Kid. Look how cool their shirt is. Go check it out. I think they have a store. Go lose a kid social media and ask them how to get their shirt. David Fix was on there. And he said he listens to all the podcasts. Oh, okay. I know he used to listen to ours. He's talked about it. He wasn't really pleased with it. But you haven't listened to that David Fix interview. I can't do it. It was surprising how honest he was. He said he doesn't know if American Pinball is going to be around next year. which doesn't surprise any of us. But there were some layoffs going on. They got rid of Steve Bowden. That's a bummer, man. I know. I want Steve to find a great home in pinball. He's such a good guy. He's smart. Incredibly knowledgeable. I think he's thoughtful. So somebody else in pinball, please pick up Steve Bowden. He is a gem and deserves to be treated as such. Absolutely. 100%. Anyhow, if you want to know more about David Fix, go check out that article. Okay. interview losing kid pinball back to inner orbit pinball all right so how they're asking is it's a great follow-up for derrick in kalamazoo yeah um they're saying how to negotiate a space that's attached to a brewery or restaurant i think yeah um we we know some people who have done this including me yes um so that works i was a little different i uh this was uh yeah we were super lucky to land this kind of deal that we have yeah but i i think the same i i i would not um off off the rip i would not pay a set amount of rent i don't i think you're getting yourself into a stressful situation with that so i think that you a lot of times breweries have unused space or space that can be kind of walled off i can tell you that we have brought a lot of business to Yucca Taproom, the bar we're attached to, and they were already doing fine. They didn't necessarily need us. They're their own awesome entity. But we added a lot more to them. I think you would start trying to negotiate by saying, let's set this area up for an arcade. You're probably not really using it anyway. I going to bring customers in And I want to spend in lieu of paying rent I want to spend these first maybe six months putting the money that I would pay towards rent into getting this place awesome like making it become an attraction that going to bring even more business to your brewery Right. At some point – because there's a lot of stuff, initial investment. If you're doing whatever money system you're doing, whether it be quarters, tokens, cards, all of that, it takes money. Decor takes money. Pinball machines, of course, take money. So I would try and negotiate it that way. Change machines. That's what I'm saying. Even if you're doing quarter play, you need change machines. And we didn't mention that. We should have brought that up when we were helping out Derek in Kalamazoo. But that's – and we like having multiple change machines because what if you're out of town and one goes down? That's something to think about. We have, yeah, two token machines and probably we'll put three in there. So I would try – I would start off negotiating like that because that just, to me, makes sense. Also, if I was in a brewery, that seems like a great use of that extra space. I wouldn't mind somebody saying, hey, I want to spend tens of thousands of dollars improving your space and bringing you more business. Right, right. Start out slow. Bring the machines in. Work on a split. There's no lease. I wouldn't mess with that at first. I'm saying before even any, like not even a split the first six months if you're able to do that. Just because I think if you can explain it to them that you're still going to be, they're still going to be receiving that money as sort of in-kind improvements to the space. Because there might be things you need to do like build walls. Add power. Run power. Like stuff like that takes money and you're improving their space. So if you can negotiate something like that for a trial period. Right. And then after that, then I would consider in the kind of near short term doing a split, just seeing how that looks. Whatever makes sense to you. We've seen people do a variety of splits with breweries. Right. And then after you get on your feet, because it takes a while for any business. I mean, unless you just get super lucky or very terrible, it will take a little while. Sure. And then I would move to negotiating actual, like I'm going to give you X number of dollars per month. And one thing I would add is just like with partnering up, you're basically partnering up with somebody. You got to make sure you can work with them. I would like check out their social media. Make sure they're not constantly doing Kickstarters or whatever to raise funds. See what people are saying about them online. Make sure they're not saying aggravating things on the Internet like just pissing people off that your name is then going to be tied to. Right. Because they have very strong, very loud views about something. For sure. And because, you know, I'm just I want to warn people about this because we've had some friends who have teamed up with local bars and or slash breweries. And in one location, the arcade is kind of like the bar owners don't look at it as something as important as it as it should be. It doesn't have the priority that the people who run the arcade part believe that it should. Right, to the point of where they've actually had to cancel tournaments because the bar decides they didn't want to have a tournament that day. Yeah, the bar booked something on top of it and said sorry. Right, right. So once again, just be careful with who you're partnering with. Make sure you can live with their business decisions and they can live with yours. Yeah, just do your due diligence. Definitely. Cool. Thank you so much. What was that? Outer orbit? Inner orbit. inner orbit outer orbit is probably something else this is inner orbit yeah yeah okay one's inside one's on the outside yeah good good deal uh this is from the next questions from heavy dirty souls on discord he's all up in the discord yeah yeah very active there's a simple one oh i like that i have a simple one he even tells you it's simple okay are there any non-arcade focus changes you'd like to make to the bat the new door painting on the floor was a great touch in my opinion anything like that come to mind with more things like that uh what he's talking about rachel you know our office every time we swing the door open there's probably it's usually people hanging outside so she she painted this very cool what is it snakes a little two-headed snake it says danger danger well you know like in it door and it takes it takes over the path of the of the door there and that's cool yeah i just came to work one day and i was like i am sick of hitting people with this door i'm gonna so you just like rachel what are you doing i'm painting on the floor um non non-arcade uh related uh upgrades or updates or changes uh i can think of is you And this is going to be a work in progress. It's probably going to go on for a long time. You have talked about doing a mural. A very large mural on that back wall. It's just painted black right now. It is an empty canvas waiting for you to wiggle your little brush. Okay. Yeah, I do want to do that. Yeah. So there's like mural type stuff. Air conditioning. Yeah, all the stuff that we've got kind of on hold with getting permits approved to build. Yeah. But stuff that's in our control. The mural I would like to do. I would like to get some more outdoor signage of some variety. Window signs, which is something because right now you have to really kind of know where the bat is. You're not going to drive by. It's like a secret club. It is. It's very secret, which is maybe not the best business move. We should probably have some kind of like – we've been there for six years. We should probably let people know. Add in the yellow pages. Yeah. Very cool. That's all I can think of. Yeah. I like drawing on stuff. Yeah. That's what it boils down to, inside, outside. I'm going to draw on some stuff. Thank you so much. Heavy Dirty Souls from Discord. And if you want to join our Discord, head over to electricbatarcade.com. Click the podcast tab, and there's a link where you can join the Discord. There's like 330 people all talking about all kind of stuff. It's really cool. Yeah. And it's not all aggro like Pinside. Yeah. It's nice. From Wiley Bumtail via Discord. Wiley, you can also talk to Wiley in Discord, and he's a lot of fun. You can talk to him in person, too. If you come to the arcade. Come to the arcade. He's there a lot. Man, Wiley is a character. We love Wiley. His first question. You've talked about your dream themes before, but what about your dream music-based theme? What artist or band would you like to see made into a pinball machine, and what songs of theirs would you like to see in the game? I'm going to take this one. Okay. This is a question made for you. My answer is just going to be a bunch of Goth and industrial bands. What are your top three? Sisters of Mercy, Ministry. Skinny Puppy. Skinny Puppy, that's three. There you go. There's three. I'd like My Life with a Thrill Co-Cult would be up there. That would be good. That's the Mike Vinikour pin. Yeah, Mike and I could get together, and we would have a lot of agreement on the damned. Anyway, yeah. I wonder what Mike would think about my idea, because I don't think this would sell very well, but it's what I would do. Like, if I was a billionaire. I'll put on my Mike Vinikour brain and tell you what I think he would say. Because I would contract Stern to do their, what do they call those runs they do? Oh, they do like. Like heavy metal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Primus. We're going to do that. The special edition pins. Mine would be a yacht rock pin. It would crush. Mike would be shaking his head much as I am right now. Think about you're doing Steely Dan Toto, Michael McDonald, Kenny Loggins. You're rocking out, rocking out. And it comes with a little captain's hat. I like that part. You like that part? I like the hat. That's about where I – there's some Toto songs I could get down with. Yeah, absolutely. The rest of it. Man, it would be awesome. You know what this game really, really needs? What's that? A headphone jack. Oh, that's a joke. She's saying that because nobody wants to hear the music. Yeah, I don't want to hear it. I think you're wrong. I think it actually needs bigger speakers. Oh, boy. But my honorable mention, and this would actually make more sense. It would be super cool. Anything? Think about it. You know, there's an Iron Maiden pin. Yeah. We need an Alice in Chains pin. Could you imagine? Okay, I don't think you'd do it as Alice in Chains. Man in the Box would. Oh, you would just do a Seattle pin. I would do a Seattle pin. Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, Nirvana. Mud Honey. Temple of the Dog. Stone Temple Pilots. Like that era, I would do a grunge pin before I would do a specific Alice in Chains pin. And the cabinet is flannel. Yes, cabinets. Actually, I've never thought about this. The LE would be flannel. Right. With some cut-up jeans, frayed jeans hanging down from the cabinet. Actually, a 90s grunge pin, a 90s grunge jukebox pin would be awesome. Right. But, I mean, logistically, the Yacht Rock pin or the grunge pin is a licensing nightmare. I mean, it would be a $30,000 pinball machine, probably. I don't know. Do you think, is Yacht Rock expensive to license? Yeah. Is that on the giveaway? Michael McDonald, Stanley Dan, Toto. It's not on the giveaway. It's not in the giveaway bin. It's not in the dollar bin. I thought, to me, the most expensive part of licensing would be like the hat. Yeah, so that's our answers. Wiley Bumtail has a number two question. You are tasked with designing the worst pinball machine ever made. What play field, features, music, or rules would you include to make the worst abomination possible? He'll go first. A machine featuring Paragon's beast layer, the spinning disc from Whirlwind, and the magnets from Iron Man. And it would be an Ed Sheeran-based game. So he's taking all the random, anything that adds randomness. Right, right. Man, that would be horrible. I mean, my answer is Galactic Tang Force. Oh. Besides the art. The art was banging. Yeah. Everything else didn't work. I would have everything so that the geometry is just slightly off. Kind of like the tails from the Crypt Scoop is just like a hair over from where it should be for it to be like a really makeable, fun shot. Yeah. I would have every shot in the game like that. so your ramp is just a little bit angled wrong. Or just posts and scoops firing right back at the flipper. Yeah, the scoop is going to be slightly too small. The posts are going to be in just a little bit too much. And the outlanes, I'm going to have it so that it bounces off the top of the inlane into the outlane. And Jersey Jack flippers, just slightly laggy. oh um i well sure i would want it much if it was going to be a true disaster i'd have it be even a little bit like a like if the coil stop is missing so you can't quite i mean i don't mind to be a real showstopper right on right on uh good deal man thank you wiley bumtail via discord that was some good stuff we have another question via discord from Guttagool. All right. Guttagool. I think he's the top question person. Yeah, he's inquisitive. You mentioned not being against retheming classic sterns. If they were to be put back into production, what new theme would you want to see on which classic stern? Does something about the machine's play style lean into the theme you choose? Or are you just slapping your favorite theme on your favorite machine from the selection? I'm basically just taking a cool classic layout and slapping a theme on here. Yeah, because those classic Stern games, it's not like when you look at Big Game or Meteor or something, nothing about the layout of those games says I'm a big game hunter. 100%. Right. Like when they used Sea Witch for Beatles, which they're actually rerunning. So if you want to, Beatles, get in touch with Game Room Goodies and they'll hook you up. so i'm thinking it's funny you mentioned media or big game because those are the two i would use and i would do either the wonder years or the jess what what's wrong what like the wonder yeah like what would you do yeah um so the wonder years or the jeffersons man moving on moving on Could you imagine a big game, the Jeffersons? No. That left shot could be the elevator. You're moving on up. The Jeffersons. Did you ever watch the Jeffersons? Yes, I watched the Jeffersons. Man, George Jefferson. Yeah. Do the Jefferson walk. So those are my games. And Gutter Ghoul goes on to say, Also, thoughts on lock stealing. Is it a good mechanic to have every so often adding suspense to uncollected multi-balls, or is it a scourge and very reasonable that you don't see it too often, if ever, nowadays? You have a different feel. I like lock stealing. You don't see it in any modern game, so I think if people liked it, then you would see more of it. I think the most recent game would be TNA. Yeah, and that was a throwback design. So I guess, yeah, you don't see very many lock-stealing games being put out. So I think that most people are anti-lock-stealing, but I think it is great, and I think that it's good for tournaments because it makes you think, for example, whenever I am playing Andromeda in a tournament, I never, ever, ever try and lock a ball. That's your strategy. Yeah. Just drop targets. Get a bonus for dropping all the drop targets. I shoot for that shot that's in between the drop targets. The spinner. No, in between the two, three banks. Oh, yes. There's that switch in there. That can be very high points. I think your risk-reward on lock-stealing games, for me and my ability, But people who are more accurate shooters than I am, this would weigh out differently. But I think it adds excitement to know that if you lock this ball, you could get a really big payout. But if you fail, then the person after you could get that really big payout. So I love it. Okay. Very good. Do you remember that InDisc? I don't think they were using the modded chip in roller games. and I think it was like Kaylee George and a bunch of other hot shots and they were doing everything except hitting that lock shot nobody wanted to lock a ball nobody wanted to lock it for anybody else that was a good time third question from Gutagool what do you think is the best playing game with the worst art oh that's easy also best art with worst playing game I know your best art worst playing game you've already talked about it Galactic. Galactic Thing Force. Best art, worst playing game. Franchi crushed it on that. Beautiful, beautiful art. Worst playing game. Best playing game with worst art. Black Knight Sword of Rage. Yeah. And actually, I told Steve Ritchie this, but not out of nowhere. He asked me. Yeah, we were we were in this penthouse at what was it? Texas. He asked me what I thought about the, I think Black Knight had just been released or something. And I said, he asked me what I thought about the art. I think he asked me because I was doing graphic design at Market Specialties and he wanted my opinion. And I said, it looks like shit. I was there. He did say this. It looks like, well, because. This was before the arm wrestling and this may have actually. Yeah. And this is nothing against. Made him call you out. Nothing against Kevin. For arm wrestling. He's done some amazing stuff throughout the years. Judge Dredd. Right, Judge Dredd. But on the side art, it looks like it was a very small image that they blew up, and it looks pixelated and noisy. And I was like, it just looks bad. And Steve said, I wanted it to look like that. He said he wanted it to look like middle school fantasy art. Fantasy art. And then he wanted to arm wrestle me. And then he did arm wrestle you, which I was also there for. and I don't know why anybody if you're watching the YouTube or if you've ever seen Kale before you're not the first person I would want to call out for arm wrestling you won but do you remember I won with the right arm then he wanted to try the left arm like my left arm would be weak or something and then we started drinking after that this was back in the day there's actually a video of this I think it's on my Facebook, not Electric Bad But on my personal Facebook, I don't ever update that thing. So if you scroll back there, you can see a video of me arm wrestling Steve Ritchie after an argument about artwork. That was a lot of fun. This is our real life. Yeah. Okay. Still with Gutter Ghoul. On the topic of looking out for operators and how companies build their machines, what is more often the culprit and thus the solution to machines breaking down? Do mechs and parts in general need to be easier to get into and repair or remove and replace? Or is there a deficiency in quality? And if companies built stronger plastics, made better welds, and weren't recycling soda cans for ramps, would that solve all your issues? I think the number one culprit of pinball machines breaking down is pinball machines being played. There's no way around the physics of what's happening in a pinball machine. Right. If your pinball machines are getting a lot of play, they're going to break, and you're going to fix them. Now, there are some games that are more pleasant to work on than others. If you have to take off, like Bram Stoker's Dracula is probably my least favorite game to work on because you have to take off everything to get to anything. But if you're working on a classic Ballystern single-level play field, everything's just right there for you. It's no big deal. Get at it. but stuff is going to break. And, like, yes, there was some changing in some steel composition over the years and things, but that's really not the main issue. The main issue is that there's a steel ball bearing hitting parts, you know, plastic or metal. And over time, that force is just going to cause breakage. So you just have to fix it. I don't think – there's nothing that I would ask a company to do that I think would make a significant difference. Yeah. Cool. And his final question. Okay. Again, inspo, from the episode with Galactic Tank Force, do you have a memorable Darwin Award for pinball machines? what games broke down or became unplayable in the most hilarious or outlandish outlandish ways possible i guess the funniest one i could think of i mean it's not really funny because it could like burn the machine up when halloween started smoking yeah because it kind of fit the theme yeah it did look very moody and that uh that happened we've heard from many machines where that it was the the scoop yeah whether like the jack-o'-lantern was yeah it was like overpowered and melting and everybody's game starts smoking. Yeah, that was funny in a horrible way. Yeah, that's the only one that really comes to mind. Well, and whenever the balls rolled into the cabinet when they skipped a drop in Galactic. Oh, in Galactic Tank Force. And they would just go into the cabinet. We had to tape up with a tongue depressor I fixed it with a tongue depressor That was pretty funny because there no sound more memorable than while you playing a game and you hear a chong chong right a ball a metal ball go into the wooden cabinet it's just you you remember that sound just boom uh yeah so that was about it that that was it yeah those two were those who were funny yeah all right now back to the mailbag from mn retro gamer via discord can we get a story about how electric bat survived covid what was that like any concerns about having to close during that time how did you get creative man that was that was a hectic time for everybody um i mean the whole world yeah but especially in amusement. We had friends that worked at amusement parks. Lots of friends in the arcade space. Lots of counties and cities and different municipalities wouldn't even let people hang out. So how are you going to play? You're at the mercy of whatever jurisdiction you were in to what the rules were going to be. Man, there was a lot of nonsensical stuff. People could play pool, but not pinball. People could play darts, but not pinball. You had to sit down. If you wanted to drink, you had to sit down? Yes. If you wanted to enjoy a beer while you played pinball, you had to have a stool at the pinball machine. And I think have food in front of you. Remember? That's why we had that popcorn machine? Yeah, we bought a popcorn machine, a big popcorn machine, so people could have food because that was the rule. You could only have a beverage if you were sitting down. All these rules are just, excuse my French, but fucking stupid. Yeah, they were. And then there was like, you could only play every other pinball machine because COVID. It can only go six feet. Right. Now, some of that stuff, I forgive the people making the rules because there wasn't good information. They didn't have good information. But some of the stuff about having to sit down, whether you were sitting or standing in the exact same place, making it different. There was just so many rules. And we actually had it. We were lucky. Arizona was very much more open than a lot of the other states. But we did it, I think, the same way that a lot of other people did it. We rented out games to people. we were lucky enough to have people that wanted to rent games right so we did that we had private parties because you could have gatherings of up to 10 people was that the rule it was something like that so we would rent out the arcade for 10 people at a time for i don't even remember how much money it was um and and i was the bartender yeah for that part yeah it was fun there was you know couldn't have staff so it was me and you um yeah there was there were some good times and some real weird times every once in a while some guy would come through and spray a bunch of fog that was supposed to make things it was a big dog and pony show to make people feel better they would come with a leaf blower and a smoke machine yeah they would like spray the stuff that supposedly kills COVID and then they would leave. But then you get one person that's infected and come in there. It was a mess. A lot of optical illusions going on. I remember that the COVID smog guy, remember how grimy that would make the glass? We'd have to do so much cleaning on top of the normal cleaning. Everything was sanitized, but it was a mess. So we were not afraid that we were going to have to close. Yalco was really generous with us. We had really good business partners. Right. And remember, we didn't have the giant space that we have now, so we didn't have the expenses we have now. Yeah, we were half as big then. And we, Rachel and I have always been very resourceful, and it ran through our heads. We might have to find something else to do. I mean, there was a point, we had a lot of friends who were in the arcade business who were no longer in the arcade business because of COVID. We thought maybe I'll go back to painting. Yeah. And I'll do whatever I do. And you do other things. Good. But also, we started streaming. That's right. And that was a lot of fun. And then we stopped streaming. And now we're back to streaming again. We just bought a wireless rig. And we are troubleshooting that and learning how to use it. So watch out for us on twitch.tv slash electric bat arcade. Give us a follow. Yeah. Cool. it uh there we go so covid sucked for everyone yep um including us yeah tldr we're still open so you know in the in uh m and retro gamer might be asking that because like what if that happens again in my opinion you're not going to get these strict shutdowns like you did last time if some if if something happens again because uh if you look at the data like the shutdowns really didn't do much i actually saw covid uh go up even during like the complete shutdown so what was it like seven days to or 12 days to stay at home it actually went up yeah during all that everybody stay indoors with everything else right we have a lot of good data and now and hopefully uh you know county states and and what have you won't do these massive shutdowns if something like this ever happens again who knows hopefully it never will yep but you just gotta keep your head up and make things happen thank you so much m n retro gamer and here we go we have uh mike next question mike flanagan on discord hi guys question concerning bulb choice at your arcade all of our games from 60s to modern we've converted to led bulbs that's smart is this one of the mods y'all do to classic bally sterns before putting them on the floor or do you try to stay original in the same vein for controlling lamps and older games we ditch the crappy bulb sockets of the era and are using single led boards yopsicles for long-term reliability yeah that's the first question let's go with that we we do yopsicles every classic game as it comes in i swap everything under the plate field out for yopsicles they're amazing and you don't ever have to deal with those old lamp sockets if somebody has a great solution for the classic game gi sockets the ones that actually you know come through the play field please let me know because those drive me crazy i see that yopsicles the david yop is coming out or has maybe is in the testing phase maybe they're out i don't know of popsicles which are the pop bumper version of the obstacles which are great because those also always flicker. The action of the pop bumper makes it go flicker. So, yopsicles, popsicles, all in on those. Now I need g-icycles. Hopefully David's listening. Yeah, David, please. We'll buy them. We'll keep you in business. We have a lot of games to update, and I'm sure a lot of other people do. Second question from Mike Flanagan. We love new sterns, and they are our biggest earners. But what would be an ideal lineup for, say, 10 games on location? For our two bars, each has five modern sterns with three 90s Bally Williams and two 80s Bally sterns. We would probably make more money going all on modern games, but feel it gets boring having the same lineups as everyone else. Thoughts? I think that's perfect. Yeah. That's exactly what I would do. They're doing the right thing. It's almost like they've been listening to us. But they're thinking like us. So Mike Flanagan is thinking like us. Mike Flanagan, A+. Yes, I would do exactly the ratio that you're doing. I mean, also, you may throw in Gottliebs or something in there, but as far as new to mid to old, I think that's a perfect ratio. 100%. Final question. Do you ever struggle to justify the high-priced classic games in good condition, command when they will never earn as much as the newer stern for the same or less initial purchase yes we do talk about that a lot and we don't buy like i wouldn't buy a six thousand dollar classic game right i saw greg davis just got a restored quicksilver are you kidding me and i have to go over to his house i can't imagine how much that cost but we're talking you know that's that's high and it would not uh i just i wouldn't pay that much for it i would try and find a nice reasonable right almost and we've purchased some beaters and brought them back to life yeah we're not we're talking like sub 1000 yeah yeah i love doing that yeah i'll redrill the playfield and do all kind of stuff to upgrade it and you know they don't look horrible you know there's some games that like you you pay beater price and they look totally thrashed try and find something in between i could not justify um spending that kind of money thank you mike flanagan for the question and thank you for listening um i added this in here this is not a a reader question but i saw this on reddit on our pinball i like hanging out on our pinball a lot of a lot of great people on there um playing with poor playfield lighting i've noticed some machines and select bars are always lit super poorly like the leds will be blaringly bright but i can't follow the ball easily at first i thought it was due to the room lighting but then i played a well-lit attack from Mars next to a poorly lit Godzilla, it really messes with me even if I know the layout super well. Why do operators choose to do this? Is this a trick to limit ball times or just an aesthetic choice? Are there techniques to playing on poorly lit playfields? What I want to focus on, because I keep seeing this, why times? I've even seen – there's been a couple of podcasters that have played games on locations, and they thought that if the bubble on the level was all the way at the top, it was operators fucking people so they could make more money. I just want to get this out there. I don't know. We're operators. We don't set up our games to – You want them to be fun. You want them to be fun. And I don't know, I know tons of operators, and I don't know any operators that make it hard to make more money. I've seen them make them hard for tournament play, but not as a, I want to try to make more money off this. Because in the long run, you don't make more money. You want people to have fun playing the game. And just some games are just not lit very well. But Godzilla is an interesting choice for someone to bring up as a game that's not lit well. There may be some lights out on it, and it's just not a good operator. But I want to get this out of people's minds. That people are trying to screw you. Right. To make more money. That doesn't make sense. Yeah, that wouldn't pay off. And like you said, I don't know anybody that does that. And as far as games being lit or not well lit, I think everybody wants their games to be lit well to be able to be played. And some games just, like, there's a lot of 90s games that were designed, like, you have to add a lot of supplemental lighting to get them to be where they will be bright. And you think about how, you think these games are dark? man imagine those games when they were dirty in bars with incandescent bulbs you couldn't see i mean that's just that's the games were not designed right um super reflective glass super bright with pin stadiums uh that's just that's not how they were and i will tell you i know i've mentioned this in the past but i don't think i've brought this up uh recently a cool trick that's completely free that helps out with glare on the glass and it makes a huge difference uh on a on a stern go into the settings and drop the backbox uh what is it how does it work brightness like during gameplay during gameplay because you can adjust the backbox brightness in a track in a track mode but you want to do it for during gameplay bring that down to like 10 100%. And that cuts out a lot of glare on the glass and makes an absolute huge difference. I don't even like playing Modern Sterns where the operator has the 100% going on while you're trying to play on the backbox. So just to recap what you're saying there, whenever nobody is playing the game, the backbox is still full brightness in a track mode. then whenever somebody coins up and starts playing it gets dim so that way the back glass image is not reflected uh strongly on the glass right the playfield glass you can do that or you can spend like 300 bucks on the uh the invisiglass you can get that for market specialty if you do want to do that why not both yeah why not right on so that's that's a little a little tidbit I wanted to add from from Brett I found a lot of stuff on Reddit I want I want to get rid of this misinformation yeah you know right on so let's go back to M and retro gamer retro gamer he's got two questions for the next podcast and this is it this is the next podcast okay how much influence in additional money does having a popular arcade like Miss Pac-Man Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Centipede, a light gun game, or Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter influence your overall income in a month? Do they help bring more people in to hopefully get them into other things like pinball, which will keep them there longer and more often? Or do you not see a difference and they are just good things to have around for non-pinball players? They don't make pinball money. None of those games will make, maybe Ms. Pack will make as much as a low-earning pin. but i do think that they're important to have the diversity and to keep people around so if you've got a group of friends and someone doesn't want to play pinball for whatever reason they'll play one of these classic arcade games for sure so i do think that's important for that reason not for the amount of coin drop that it gets it's that it may it keeps people it's it's the intro game and it keeps groups of people. Gateway drug. It's the gateway drug. You nailed it. I think you said that. You nailed it. And then a second question. Has the Stern Insider Connected Cup 2024 influenced your amount of people that come on a daily basis? I don't think we know yet. It's really hard to tell. I mean, there's 20 hours a day that people are in there. We're not there for 20 hours a day. We see people in there, but it's also Christmas season. People are off school. There's no way for me to parse that out. We have had some people ask us, like, hey, what is this? How do you play it? So you want me to give, like, a quick? Yeah, and I was about to mention that. One thing we have noticed, like, people are personally messaging us about the game. People are coming in. I know they're playing the games thinking about the cup. So, yeah, go with it. So just a very basic summary is that you're playing the Stern Insider Connected games, and each of those games has tiers of essentially achievements, and you get points for each one of those that you get. However, unlike achievements, you can get them over and over in consecutive games. So, like, for example, one of them is on Aerosmith. you get six million points for a score and these are there's all kinds of stuff six million is not a terribly high score so you only get five points for doing that but then if you do it on the next game you get an additional five points and so forth so you can just keep racking up the points for these various accomplishments the goals within each game and you can see in the in the insider connected app what each game right what your targets are right and what location you play that and what location you play that's very cool yeah yeah so we're having a blast doing it unfortunately we haven't had a lot of time to do it we've been we've been out of town we've been doing stuff with families the holidays uh but i want to i want to really get into it and and try to nail some of these achievements yeah this week i'm getting my points up and i'm gonna get more than you but the uh going back to stern insider connected the the only thing we could notice you know without having any data and anything that that really like immediately brought people in were the the john wick limited contracts yeah because people wanted to get those and they knew there were there were only so many and as soon as you got the notification on your on your phone you could see people were just like rolling in trying trying to get these things um But anyway, on a whole, Stern Interstellar Connected is going to earn you more money. It has earned us a lot more money. Yeah. Cool. And it brings back, like it just, it's not and, but because of it, it adds replayability on games that people might have thought that they were not interested in playing. You know, they'd moved on to the new hotness, and this makes old hotness new hot again. That's right. But, yeah, right on. Well, that sums it up. We're done with the mailbag. Don't forget Chewy's fourth annual Christmas tournament at 630. That's on Christmas. That is on also the first day of Hanukkah. So we can make it the Christmas Hanukkah. That could be the first annual Christmas Hanukkah. Because the first day of Hanukkah is on December 25th this year. Happy Chalidays. Chalidays. and then we have chewy's world famous bounty all classics knockout sunday december 29th at noon this is the last chance for you arizona folks to get some good whopper points and we do have on tuesday christmas eve and tuesday new year's eve we have league we're not stopping we do we do league no matter what and rain or shine or what did you call a nuke Or Nuculard. Or Nuculard. And then Metallica launch party Sunday, January the 12th at noon. Anybody is welcome to come play in any of those events with us. Just get you a plane ticket and come on out. All right, let's go. I think we're done here. We're about to head to the arcade. Yeah, I'm excited. Play a little pinball. Yeah. Make sure the token machines are filled up. And then we're ending our night at a tournament at Atomic Age Modern. Oh, yeah. Our friends, the Kennedy family, Atomic Age Modern. We're going to go play in their Metallica launch party tonight. Yeah, right on. And that's also a good chance to get some whopper points. Yeah. So if you listen to this before that starts, come hang out with us over there. All right. We're going to take off. Thank you all for listening and watching. And we really appreciate your support. If you want to ask us a question that we'll answer here, you can do the email, which is electricbatarcade at gmail. Or just drop us a line on Discord. If you want to join the Discord, go to electricbatarcade.com. Click the podcast link, and there's a link to join the Discord. You can also just message us. DM us on Instagram, too. Slip us a piece of paper under the office door. That would be funny. I'll answer that. Yeah. Right on. Happy holidays, everybody. Happy holidays. You guys have a good time. We will be talking to you next year, I think. Next year. All right. The bats are out. Bats out. _(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v4)_ --- *Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 028fb5e2-d24b-4d06-b8c6-153e4daf4caf*