# #59 Pinfest. Allentown, PA - The Classic Pinball Podcast

**Source:** The Classic Pinball Podcast  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2021-08-17  
**Duration:** 37m 6s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/george272/episodes/59-Pinfest--Allentown--PA---The-Classic-Pinball-Podcast-e156dg5

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## Analysis

George and Dave from The Classic Pinball Podcast discuss their experience at the Allentown PinFest event in Pennsylvania, including restoration work, machine acquisitions, games played, tournament participation, and dealer interactions. They cover specific machines like Guns N' Roses, Rick and Morty, Aerosmith, and classic titles, alongside logistics of buying/selling playfields at shows.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Wayne Nions, legendary pinball designer, turned 103 at Allentown PinFest on July 29th and is still active in the community. — _George mentions JRPinball (Joe) wearing a Wayne Nions name tag, learning Nions turned 103 at the show._
- [HIGH] A Fathom pinball machine sold for $7.50 at Allentown's flea market before early Saturday kickoff. — _Dave describes buying Fathom in the flea market area unloaded on day two (Saturday) for $7.50; he was offered $2,000 immediately after but chose to restore it._
- [MEDIUM] Fathom 2.0 machines have not yet shipped as of late August, despite earlier promises to begin pushing them out. — _George states 'We still have not seen Fathom 2.0 yet. Here we are at the end of August' and notes lack of reports from insiders despite promised release timeline._
- [MEDIUM] Guns N' Roses is Stern's best game to date according to George's assessment. — _George: 'I think it's the best game they've made so far. I think it's their best title from what I've played all their stuff.' However, Dave expresses reservations about the $10,000+ price point despite feature richness._
- [MEDIUM] Rick and Morty game relies heavily on show knowledge and has limited mechanical depth. — _George describes it as 'heavily relying upon you knowing and liking the show' and 'a basic game' without many features, though fun for arcade play._
- [MEDIUM] A high-end private collector in the Allentown area has converted a church into a pinball collection space housing 100+ machines. — _Dave recounts being invited to see collector's 'church' with 100+ games, custom-renovated with pews removed for machine storage, located on main street with neighboring residential area._
- [MEDIUM] New Old Stock (NOS) Evil Knievel playfield sold for $900 online, significantly less than anticipated by the seller. — _Jack states: 'You know, I thought I'd get more, but I could only pull 900 on it' for his NOS Evil Knievel playfield._
- [MEDIUM] Fireball 2 NOS playfield with clear coat is valued around $1,100 to $1,200 depending on eBay fees and shipping costs. — _John Owens (playfield dealer) and Jack discuss pricing: $1,100 base plus shipping/eBay fees (~13%) plus potential $75-100 boxing, totaling $1,200+._
- [HIGH] Allentown PinFest was scheduled for July due to unforeseen circumstances, not the traditional early May timing, which may have impacted attendance. — _George: 'July is not the time to hold a pinball show' and notes 'he had to do it this time because of all the stuff we went through the last year. This was the sweet spot.'_

### Notable Quotes

> "I got a pinball machine, yay... She was thanking her father up and down for it."
> — **Dave (recounting customer feedback from Silver Ball Mania delivery)**, Early in episode
> _Illustrates emotional satisfaction collectors/operators derive from restoring machines for families and the meaningful impact of their work._

> "$7.50 for a fathom. And the plate wasn't in bad shape either."
> — **Dave**, Mid-episode
> _Highlights an exceptional deal at the Allentown flea market; shows value recognition and deal-hunting culture at shows._

> "It's like playing Guitar Hero... you're in a concert and you're playing with guns and roses... it keeps telling you hit the shots."
> — **George (describing Guns N' Roses gameplay experience)**, Game review segment
> _Reveals design philosophy: immersive, mode-heavy, shot-focused gameplay that may appeal to some but not all players despite being 'best they've made.'_

> "Rick and Morty... it's heavily relying upon you knowing and liking the show. If you don't know or like the show, I think it would leave you kind of flat."
> — **Dave**, Rick and Morty game discussion
> _Highlights theme-dependent game design risk and IP licensing reliance in modern Stern production._

> "He bought a church. He had to have something to house his high-end collection."
> — **Dave**, Late episode anecdote
> _Demonstrates scale and passion of top-tier collectors; unique preservation/display solution for large collections._

> "It's time or money right... you're going to give up time to get it sold fast, right... with anything you sell on ebay."
> — **John Owens (playfield dealer)**, Playfield pricing discussion
> _Exposes secondary market economics and show vs. online selling trade-offs for dealers._

> "You're limited. You better do well in those six games because you're six games and done. I like that."
> — **George (on tournament format preference)**, Tournament discussion
> _Shows preference for limited-play tournament format over continuous buy-in models, enabling participation without full-day commitment._

> "I think tournaments... that's really where the activity is right now. We'll see who's, what's the next show up? Probably Expo is the next big one."
> — **George**, Show outlook segment
> _Indicates post-pandemic recovery skewed toward tournaments over traditional shows; previews upcoming Expo attendance as key market indicator._

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| George | person | Co-host of The Classic Pinball Podcast; attended Allentown PinFest Saturday afternoon, played multiple games, participated in high-score tournament, placed 13th out of ~50-100 competitors. |
| Dave | person | Co-host of The Classic Pinball Podcast; arrived at Allentown early to help with setup, participated in flipping/acquiring machines, purchased $7.50 Fathom, played Guns N' Roses and Rick and Morty. |
| Maureen | person | Dave's companion; traveled with him to Allentown, participated in games like Guns N' Roses, helped deliver Silver Ball Mania restoration in Connecticut. |
| Allentown PinFest | event | Major annual pinball show/tournament in Allentown, PA, traditionally held in early May but rescheduled to July 2022 due to unforeseen circumstances; features flea market, tournaments, new machine displays. |
| Dave Matrando | person | Electromechanical pinball game restorer; previously interviewed for The Classic Pinball Podcast 'Tentastic' episode (~2 years prior); helped set up 4 Million BC and Top Card at Allentown, both sold in free play. |
| Wayne Nions | person | Legendary pinball designer; created Slick Chick (late 1960s); turned 103 on July 29th during Allentown PinFest; still active in community. |
| Slick Chick | game | Classic pinball machine from late 1960s designed by Wayne Nions; named after a chicken restaurant; featured X-pattern pop bumper layout. |
| 4 Million BC | game | Electromechanical pinball from 1971; featured zipper flippers and multi-ball; George's childhood memory; set up by Dave Matrando at Allentown in excellent condition, sold quickly. |
| Top Card | game | Electromechanical pinball; displayed at Allentown PinFest by Dave Matrando, set up in free play. |
| Guns N' Roses | game | Recent Stern pinball machine; theme-based on band; features concert experience mechanics, multi-ball mania, gas gauge fuel mechanic; George considers it Stern's best title; priced $10,000+; played by George, Dave, Maureen, and Jack. |
| Rick and Morty | game | Recent Stern pinball machine based on Adult Swim animated series; features adjustable profanity levels (0-100); relies heavily on show knowledge; considered basic mechanically but entertaining for arcade play. |
| Aerosmith | game | Pinball machine featuring 'Toys in the Attic' toy/treasure chest with Joker character; colorful, fun gameplay; played by George and Jack at Allentown. |
| Fathom | game | Pinball machine; Dave acquired one for $7.50 at Allentown flea market, immediately received $2,000 offer but declined to restore; discussed in context of Fathom 2.0 remaster delays and historical pricing (bought for $250-600 20 years ago). |
| Fathom 2.0 | product | Remaster/remake of Fathom; expected to ship by late August 2022 but no confirmed shipments reported as of podcast recording; manufacturers promised to 'start pushing them out.' |
| Silver Ball Mania | game | Electromechanical pinball; restored by Dave and George; delivered to customer in Darien, Connecticut before Allentown PinFest; customer's 6-year-old daughter extremely positive. |
| Jack | person | Friend of George and Dave; participated in Guns N' Roses gameplay; sold playfields at Allentown (Old Chicago Backglass, two Blackjack Backglasses, Bally Blackjack Playfield, Fireball 2 NOS Playfield) to John Owens; works in automotive body shop. |
| John Owens | person | Playfield and backglass dealer with booth at Allentown PinFest; purchases and sells playfields/backglasses; negotiated friendly deal with Jack for multiple playfield/glass pieces; provides market education on NOS vs. CPR playfield pricing. |
| Centaur | game | Classic pinball tournament title at Allentown; George scored 1.95M for 100 points and was top scorer, beat by tournament ringers later. |
| Surf Champ | game | Classic pinball tournament title at Allentown; George achieved 90th percentile score, contributed to early 290 points toward tournament final ranking. |
| Ron Hallett | person | Pinball tournament player; recognized by George at Allentown; seasoned tournament veteran attending major events. |
| Jerry Bernard | person | Pinball tournament player; highly skilled; recognized by George at Allentown; participated in high-score tournament; reportedly performed very well. |
| Evil Knievel | game | Pinball machine; Jack owns NOS (New Old Stock) example; sold NOS playfield for $900 on eBay after expecting higher price; contrasted with readily available CPR reproductions. |
| Fireball 2 | game | Pinball machine; NOS playfield with clear coat discussed in dealer conversation; valued at $1,100-$1,200 including eBay fees and shipping; CPR versions available as alternative. |
| Pinball Expo | event | Upcoming major pinball show in Chicago; George identifies as next significant industry event after Allentown; key attendance metric for post-pandemic market assessment. |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Allentown PinFest 2022 event recap and logistics, Machine acquisition and restoration experiences, Modern Stern pinball game reviews (Guns N' Roses, Rick and Morty), High-score tournament participation and format preferences, Secondary market playfield and backglass pricing dynamics
- **Secondary:** Fathom 2.0 remaster production status and delays, eBay selling mechanics and show vs. online sales trade-offs, Post-pandemic pinball show and tournament recovery trends

### Sentiment

**Positive** (0.73) — Hosts convey enthusiasm about show attendance, successful acquisitions, and community interactions. Mixed notes on Stern game designs (positive on Guns N' Roses as best-to-date, reserved on Rick and Morty and price points). Disappointment about Fathom 2.0 delays and July timing reducing attendance. Overall constructive and engaged tone reflecting post-pandemic recovery optimism.

### Signals

- **[product_launch]** Fathom 2.0 has not shipped by late August as originally promised; no confirmed reports from insider sources despite earlier announcements to begin pushing units out. (confidence: high) — George: 'We still have not seen Fathom 2.0 yet. Here we are at the end of August. Really? They said they were going to start pushing them out.'
- **[collector_signal]** High-end collector in Allentown area converted decommissioned church into custom climate-controlled pinball collection space for 100+ machines, indicating extreme collector passion and resource allocation. (confidence: medium) — Dave: 'He bought a church... he took out so basically he wanted to find a place... he took all the pews out, put rows of games in there.'
- **[market_signal]** NOS (New Old Stock) playfields command 2-3x higher prices than CPR (Custom Playfield Reproductions) alternatives, though market acceptance of CPR reproductions is increasing competition. (confidence: high) — Jack: 'You can buy CPRs all day long now, but an NOS Evil Knievel, forget it. It's two different things.' John Owens discussion on Fireball 2 NOS valuation ($1,100-$1,200) vs. CPR availability.
- **[event_signal]** Allentown PinFest held in July 2022 instead of traditional early May slot due to scheduling constraints; perceived negative impact on attendance due to summer vacation competition. (confidence: high) — George: 'July is not the time to hold a pinball show. I think you're competing with a lot of other summer activities... I think summer's a tough time to hold a show.'
- **[competitive_signal]** High-score tournament format with limited 6-play maximum and no buy-ins appeals to casual players; enables broader participation without full-day commitment compared to continuous-play formats. (confidence: medium) — George: 'You're limited. You better do well in those six games because you're six games and done. I like that... I'd do that again. In fact, if I was ever going to run a tournament with some of my classic games, I'd do the same thing.'
- **[sentiment_shift]** Guns N' Roses receives qualified praise as Stern's best title to date but price point ($10,000+) and gameplay depth concerns limit collector interest despite feature richness. (confidence: medium) — George: 'I think it's the best game they've made so far... For $10,000 plus, I don't know if I like it that much.' Dave: 'feature-rich... really good... but for $10,000 plus, I don't know if I like it that much.'
- **[historical_signal]** Wayne Nions, legendary pinball designer of Slick Chick (late 1960s), celebrated 103rd birthday on July 29, 2022, still active in pinball community. (confidence: high) — George: 'he told me that that day that first day of Allentown he turned 103 and he's still kicking on the 29th he was 103 years old on that day.'
- **[operational_signal]** eBay playfield sales incur 13% total fees plus oversized shipping premiums ($75-100+), making live show sales significantly more economical for dealers despite lower per-unit margins. (confidence: high) — John Owens and Jack discussion: 'with anything you sell on ebay... you're going to give them right now... 13%... with a CPR box... 75 to 100 bill... 13%? Yeah, because now it's $12.'
- **[content_signal]** Classic Pinball Podcast experienced month-long production gap due to hosts' busy schedules; resuming with August episodes while acknowledging fall calendar already full. (confidence: medium) — George: 'We haven't recorded in, what, probably a month?... I'm already filling up fall, so it just seems like we're going at 90.'
- **[community_signal]** Tournament activity significantly outpacing traditional show attendance as community prioritizes competitive play following pandemic hiatus; tournaments perceived as primary growth driver. (confidence: medium) — George: 'I think right now the things that are doing well, pinball-related in the summer are tournaments because you haven't had tournaments in a year and change. And I think that's really where the activity is right now.'

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## Transcript

 🎵 Hello and welcome to another episode of the Classic Pinball Podcast. My name is George and today I'm joined by my co-host Dave. We're outdoors in New Hampshire. Yeah, we've left Massachusetts. We're across the border today on a beautiful, non-humid, non-90 plus degree day. Dave, how are you? Doing great, George, and good afternoon. And this would be a great day to ride a roller coaster at Cedar Point, a day like today. I don't know if my back could take it, but yeah, it's a beautiful day in the neighborhood, as someone once said. And today we're going to talk about, we're a little late, and we told you in our last episode that we were going to be on vacation. I was. I did some fun things. But we went to Allentown. Dave, I'm going to let you start since you beat me there by a couple of days and got to see the opening or the setup. And then day one. I came in on Saturday, day two, and we'll talk about that in a couple minutes. So, yeah, Maureen and I decided to make a whole big trip out of this, you know, a nice summertime venture, Allentown, and loaded up a game because we were going to go and deliver a game on the way down to Darien, Connecticut, a restored Silver Ball Mania we did. So went three hours, delivered that, set it up. Little girl, I think six years old, the daughter was so excited about it. She's jumping up and down. I got a pinball machine, yay, you know. I said, you can be the first one to try it. So she tried it out. I had the high score set real low, so she went pop, pop, pop. She got the high game, and she's psyched about it. She was thanking her father up and down for it. So that was nice. It was great to have that feedback when you deliver a game like that. It really made their day and made their weekend. In fact, their grandmother, her grandmother was the one that bought the game for them months ago for me to restore up. And they're going to go see her the next day. So I talked to the grandmother on the way out to Allentown, and I said, well, you're going to be a really favorite grandmother now because your granddaughter loved the game. So they were all happy. So we continued on, went to Pennsylvania, went to Allentown show, and we met Dave Matrando in there. He does a wonderful job restoring the EMs and got in there a – Well, for those of you who don't remember or haven't listened to our initial podcast, he's a restorer of electromechanical games, and we interviewed him for Tentastic, oh, two years ago, Dave. Yeah. So he was a winner, I believe. I don't remember what game. You can go listen to that episode. Yeah, he usually, he's definitely. Surf and Safari, was that the game? Surfer, maybe Surfer. Surfer? Yeah, Golly Surfer. I think he might have won for that. Yep, he had a couple good ones there. So we got in early to the show. Usually you have to be a vendor or bring a game in to get in for the show early. And we just went in there and helped Dave. And so we were helpers. So we got in early. So you snuck in. We did sneak in, yeah, we did. I brought my two-wheeler and we snuck in. But, you know, I wasn't just going to be there and sneak in and just, you know, pull a fast one. It's like, you know, I'm going to do some help here, help the show, which we did. And so we helped Dave set up two games, a 4 million BC, beautiful shape one too. It looked like home use only. And he had a nice game to start with, and he made it even better. And also a top card. So he set them both in free play. And he sold the 4 million BC really quick. I mean, that was one of my introductions to pinball when I was a kid. Funtown Pier, Seaside Park, New Jersey, 10 cents a play. Yep, 10 cents a play. I remember playing that game at a pizza shop down Cape Cod, I believe, in Dennisport years ago. And I still remember the game, the zipper flippers and multiball game for 1971. Pretty head of time. And that's elevated ramp? Yeah. I don't even know. What would you? Well, like fireball, fireball classic, the little skill shot ramp thing. What do you call it? Skill shot ramp. It's not a ramp. Well, it's a wooden ramp. It's an incline. Wooden incline. You owe me a beer. Okay. Wouldn't incline. With three little wire switches on there, you try to get it just up so far that you get the pop-bombers to light up. So that's a lot of fun. Very tempted to buy that game. The price was right, too. It's like, ah. I was taking home a bunch of glass, so I couldn't take it home anyway. So helped him out. He was very thankful for that. Walked around the show. It was great. You know, talked to a bunch of people there. Joe, who goes by JRPinball on Pinside. he was wearing a Wayne Nions that's his little icon his Wayne Nions name tag so I didn't know who it was I thought like who is that your grandfather it's like no it's Wayne Nions I heard the guy from the guy who's been around forever but I guess he told me that that day that first day of Allentown he turned 103 and he's still kicking on the 29th he was 103 years old on that day for Allentown so he's a long time golly designer created Slick Chick and I found a story about Slick Chick, a famous game I think from the late 60s is they're trying to figure out a name for the game. They had the idea of the X pattern of pop bumpers. I believe it's like 5 and 5 or 4 and 4 in a cross kind of situation or an X situation. What can we spell the thing right? We don't really know. They were going out to lunch that day thinking about it and they went by this chicken place and it was called Slick Chick. They go, ah, that's what it is we'll make it slip chick so it was named after a restaurant i i have one have you ever been to a cluck you and no i have not been to a club that is an actual chicken chain cluck you wow is that so it's like cluck university take the off ramp look let's cut to the chase for a second go ahead everybody wants to know Yes. Is Thursday the day for the deals? Was there a lot of exchanging going on before the show even started? There was some. I wouldn't say it was like Fast and Furious like years ago, but there was some action going on. I'd say this, I think every day had something going on. I think the next day, Dave was in the right place at the right time where he saw so much stuff being unloaded. You're going to cry, people. And, yeah, there was a fathom being unloaded in the flea market area. And Dave was right there to say, oh, let me see if I can help you here. And he's like, oh, fathom, what do you want for that? Oh, I think the guy in the back, what do you want? Yeah, I think $7.50. Okay, I'll take it. Well, I didn't even open it up for you yet, dude. I don't care. I'll take it. $7.50 for a fathom. And the plate wasn't in bad shape either. Cadmo's real nice. I think 99 out of 100 people would have done the same damn thing. In fact, after Dave took possession of it, so many people came over to him and said, Dave, I'll give you two grand for it right now as it sits. He could have flipped it easy. Sure. But he has plans to really make a nice one. He's going to put a new play field in it and make it a real nice game and keep it for a while, maybe sell it down the road, but he's going to make a nice restoration. We still have not seen Fathom 2.0 yet. Here we are at the end of August. Really? They said they were going to start pushing them out. Now, I haven't heard anybody talk in other podcasts, and there's a couple people who would have frontline information, you know who you are. I'm hoping they get out there because I'd like to see one. I just know 20 years ago I had two Fathoms. One I bought for $250, the other one I bought for $600, both working. And I made one good one and sold off the other one working for $850 to this guy. and he was all pissed off but a month later like oh one of the drop targets was sticking and you know he's kind of bitching about it that it's like dude you have a fathom for 850 you're doing great he didn't even know what he had then he sold it shortly thereafter I think for either a loss or even and then I talked to him years later and he said I said don't you wish you kept that fathom now you know I told him I said it's a great deal and now you know now he knows I knew what that game was years ago when I got it for It like what a steal What a wonderful game that is Where else are we going with this George Oh Guns N Roses Oh you want to talk about playing that Yeah, we met you and your friend, Jack. Right. Let's set the stage. First of all, we had to wait a half an hour to play it because the person playing in front of us had played the game before and was actually very good at it. and it was fun to watch, so we learned a few things. But the four of us played, Maureen, yourself, and Jack and I. That game went on for over a half an hour with four people who have never played the game before. And it was fun, but it's multiball mania. That was my takeaway. My takeaway was it's like playing Guitar Hero. okay i'm not a guitar hero guy so what do you mean well because there's like a little gas gauge thing on the side there when you're in all these different modes you're getting into the game you start a mode and it's all about you're in a in a concert and you're playing with you're playing with guns and roses in a concert one of the band members by hitting all these different shots and wants you to hit and it keeps telling you hit the shots the more you hit the shots the more it jams up the uh the fuel gauge the more you keep missing and missing missing shots the fuel gauge goes lower and lower and lower and lower until finally you fail, you get booed off stage, you lose the ball. Right, but it was just long playing. I don't know. My friend Jack, he didn't have very good words for it either. Nice looking game, fun, but I don't think I would want to own one. I'll play it again. I'll put money in it. I will say, I think it's the best game they've made so far. I think it's their best title from what I've played all their stuff. And it's feature-rich. There's a lot to it. It's a really good, it's an immersive concert experience. You feel like it gives you that. They were going for a concert experience that you're a part of, and they achieved that. And I like the game, the little concert lights in there going back and forth. It had a really good, but for $10,000 plus, I don't know if I like it that much, George. Hey, all I know is we didn't record that particular game, and I ended up winning, folks. So I do win from time to time. We just didn't record. You won? Yeah, I came in first. Oh, okay. Yeah, you weren't paying attention. Don't you remember Jack was giving up and I pulled the plunger and the ball started going down the play field? He's like, hey, hey, hey, what's going on here? I pulled the plunger. You said you didn't want to play anymore. No, I want to beat you now. You didn't end up beating me. It was pretty fun. That was good. Right. He's like, I got to watch you. Yeah, you do. Be careful what you say. Be careful what you say. Yep. Do you want to, let's dovetail into Rick and Morty. Okay. What did you think of that? I like Rick and Morty a lot, but that game is like, it's heavily relying upon you knowing and liking the show. If you don't know or like the show, I think it would leave you kind of flat, because it's kind of a basic game. I didn't think there were a lot of features to the game. A lot of humor. The call-outs were great. Right. Enough to go buy it? No. Put money in it? Absolutely. Yeah, put money into it, sure. In an arcade somewhere, sure, I'll put some money into it. It would have been fun to play in a different kind of environment where you're not hearing every other machine. It was kind of hard to hear. They had it cranked up. But it would be fun to be by itself and hear all the call-outs and experience the game that way. Not as much fun in an arcade setting. What I found was kind of weird is they, I guess, they have different levels of adult language levels on it. And if you turn it all the way down to zero, you're still going to get something no matter what. Right. Because that's what it is. But infrequent, where if you put it up to 100%. Oh, it's like constantly. Right. But it's still, it's funny. It's filthy is what it is. But I don't know what some of these parents are thinking. They bring in their little six-year-old Johnny up to it and they're having him play it. And it's like, it's swarming like a sailor. And it's like, I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't put my kid in front of that game. Yeah, I'm not so sure that would be a family-friendly game. What else? What else do we have? I have a whole handful of stuff. All right. Go ahead. You go ahead. Okay. I hadn't played this in a while, folks. I know, again, newer game. Sorry. But we're doing the Allentown Review Show. Jack and I played Aerosmith. That's a pretty fun game. I don't know if you've ever played that. I have played the game. A very colorful, fun game. It's a treasure chest with the Joker, Jokey, or whatever that thing's name. Where the ball throws it in. Toys in the Attic. Right. That was pretty cool. Liked that. We had fun playing that. We played El Dorado. We played Meteor. I know I think I played that with you. The one thing I found funny, and he's there every year, and if you've been to Allentown, Jeff. I don't know Jeff's last name. With all the playfields, he must have had 100-and-something playfields. These are the new playfields? No, all the old. Oh, okay. You know who I'm talking about. Yeah, all along the wall. I felt so bad for him. He wasn't selling anything, was he? Well, a lot of that was firewood. Sorry, Jeff. But, yeah, I just felt bad for him because it was a hot day, and I kept looking at it and going, when this is over, you now have to put that all back in the truck. Now, I helped him a couple of times years ago and acquired some pretty good stuff, but I worked my tail off to put stuff out of it. I can't imagine then loading it all back in the truck to take it home. That would make me sad. What are those going for? What do you want? I mean, look, 50 bucks a piece maybe, but not nowadays. Probably 300 a piece. Who knows? I'm sure you could have negotiated. If you needed parts, and I think that's really what it comes down to, if you needed certain parts that you knew you couldn't buy or find anywhere, it's great to buy old playfields. But as far as restoring the playfields, no. They were pretty bad. They were definitely operator-played games. My buddy Jack did pretty well, though, selling. If he had listened to me from the beginning, I kept telling him, just put the stuff in the car. You're going to sell it. And he fought me tooth and nail. Because he wanted to do what? He wanted to pre-sell? No, he was just being lazy. Okay. So he brought, what, Old Chicago Backglass, two Blackjack, Bally Blackjack Backglasses, a Bally Blackjack Playfield. Am I missing something? No. Oh, and then he had the, you'll hear this later on in the episode, he had a Fireball 2 New Old Stock Playfield. and we met this guy John Owens. Some of you probably know who he is. He has a company that buys and sells playfields and back classes and he took everything but the fireball to play field and Jack was happy as a clam and I kept looking at him going, Jack, I told you you would sell it. You found the right guy. He had a couple of tire kickers but those people lost. This guy, he's like, all this stuff's real nice. yeah made an offer gone wasn't greedy he said hey you know i gotta leave a little bit on for him so he can make a buck he got a good deal john got a good deal no he did he did i'm not gonna tell people what he got but um you'll hear it in later in the episode we uh had a quick chat with uh john talking about that play field the uh fireball two play field and his remarks on what he looks for in buying and selling playfields. So it was kind of interesting. Years ago, a couple years back in Allentown, I bought a Fathom playfield off him. It was a CPR, maybe the second version they did. I think it was, maybe the third version. I don't know, but it was a little bit of a, you know, maybe a B-run or something. But it was still very nice, presentable shape. So I bought it for a decent price because at that point you couldn't get the Fathom playfield from CPR. They were done. So I said, well, I need one for future restorations. So I bought that off him at a good price. I want to also talk about George. I usually don't participate in the tournaments at these shows because, one, there's tons of people that are doing it. And it takes all my time. It's waiting in line. And I don't get to really enjoy the rest of the show. And then I always have to be back at a certain time. So you're always like a ball and chain to attorney. And you've got to make a choice. Do you want to do attorney? or do i want to enjoy the show play and do flea market stuff and buy things and chatter chat it up you know chat it up and so forth so this time around i saw that there weren't many people waiting to play a tournament the tournament games were a lot of good classic titles there like centaur surf champ got lead far out a catacomb with a cpr play field installed um and a couple other uh couple other So this was just a classics tournament There was two There was a classics tournament and the same people were running it Classics tournament, and right next to it, it was a, you know, whatever, the main tournament that had everything in it. You know, the newer stuff and the older stuff. So I said, and basically it was all high score tournament, which I liked too. I liked the format. The forum was, you know, you have six tries to get it done, six times only, and you get to pick, I think, three games that you can try on or whatever, and you try to get the high score. So if you get, say, the high score on Centaur, you get 100 points. So do you play all six and you can throw out three of the scores? You can play any titles you want, but you've got to play. You want to get 300 points is perfect score. So you want to get 100 points on each, meaning you want to get the top score in Centaur, let's say the top score in Surf Champ, and the top score in Fire Out, let's say. Right. You get a top score in three titles of your choice, you get a perfect 300. So now you go in there. So I went in there, and I said, what am I going to play? Well, you were all excited before I got there, saying, oh, I did really well, and continued. Oh, yeah. No, I did. I stood there like this, Mom. Not for long, though. That kind of thing. You know, the old three-seater. I happened to look at the people that had participated in the tournament up until your text to me, and I didn't recognize any names. However, that changed the next day, and I saw the ringers arrive. Oh, yeah, because I saw the Centaur scores before mine, and I went in a little bit mid-afternoon. There were a lot of people playing at that point, but we didn't have to wait in line. And I saw some scores on Centaur. There was like an 800,000. There was like a 17, a 1.7. And it's like, you know, I can get that. You know, so the 1.7 was 100 points. So I played one game on it. I got like, you know, 900. It's like now I'm winning again. I got 1.95. I was a top scorer on Centaur. I had 100 points on it. It's like, yes. So I thought I'm a shoo-in for that one, right? I really wanted two, but I got close. And then the tournament players showed up on Saturday. Well, then I went and played some Surf Champ. I got like the 90th percentile on that. I was up to like 290 points or something early on. So I was like, okay, I'm good. And I already, you know, I shot all my bullets. I did all six. Then, as you said, the ringers came in, the people you know from other tournaments. Well, the two tournament players that I recognized right off were Ron Hallett and Jerry Bernard. And Jerry's an awesome player. Ron's not shabby either, but Jerry is. I don't think either one of them took down my Centaur score, though. with somebody else i'd have to go look but it doesn't matter they're seasoned tournament veterans you see them at all the big big events and uh i believe they did pretty well i think jerry bernard did well i don't know about ron but i think jerry did very well i really liked the you know even though i didn't place in the money at all i think i placed 13th out of i don't know 50 or 100 whatever it was you know i still did okay i was in the top five for a little while but I had fun because it was a quick one and done play have a good time with it but not be married to it and I could do the rest of the show like Pintastic if I recall the last time people were just playing because there were lines and if you were a serious tournament player you didn't leave that area you were married to the tournament and on those tournaments like Pintastic you can dump money, dump dump dump dump constantly buy buy buy buy buy in And so, like this one here, you're limited. You better do well in those six games because you're six games and done. I like that. Right. So that was good like that. So I'd do that again. In fact, if I was ever going to run a tournament with some of my classic games, I'd do the same thing these guys did. I'd put up, you know, a nice six pack of classics and do it like the same way. Anything else for Allentown? George, you had any thoughts? Other than we didn't have far. I did. You did. I didn't because I was a little food needy at the time and, uh, went for the turkey dinner instead, which was quite good. Other than that, I don't have much else to, I wasn't there long enough. Uh, we got there Saturday morning and left early Saturday afternoon, played some games, looked around, but you know, I personally, uh, July is not the time to hold a pinball show. I think you're competing with a lot of other summer activities. I think he did all right, but I don't think it was nearly the crowd that they would have when they do it in early May. I think, but as we know, he had to do it this time because of all the stuff we went through the last year. This was a sweet spot. This was the eye of the storm, the calm part of the storm, where you could do it. So there's opportunity before things get wacky again. I think he did well in spite of all that. He had a lot of things going against him, like again, weddings, and vacations and whatever. And then a couple people still scared to go out of the house kind of thing too. But there were a lot of those people that were a little fearful, but I did see some of them at the show. I thought there would be bigger demand. I thought there would be more people there. I just think summer's a tough time to hold a show, and that's why you don't see them often. I think right now the things that are doing well, pinball-related in the summer are tournaments because you haven't had tournaments in a year and change. And I think that's really where the activity is right now. We'll see who's, what's the next show up? Probably Expo is the next big one. We'll see how many people attend that in Chicago. That's going to be interesting. York's October. Isn't York coming up soon? Yeah, York is another one. And there's one in Saratoga, I think. It might have already. It's coming up soon or it already happened. Yeah, it either happened this weekend or it's happening next weekend. And I'm so discombobulated. We haven't recorded in, what, probably a month? So we had to get our at least one episode in for the month of August. Hopefully we'll get back to a little bit more of a regular schedule once things calm down. But I'm already filling up fall, so it just seems like we're going at 90. And I know you're busy. We'll talk about it in another episode. But you've been very, very busy doing repair work, which is great. yeah i've been banging out restorations and bringing games in and you know i feel like rawhide you know bring them in get them out rawhide kind of thing you know and uh it's been great i mean uh delivering a lot of games to people seeing their face you know they're all happy about getting their nice game well we could talk about some of the games that you've recently bought too but i think we'll uh we'll end it here one more allentown thing okay so on the way out Allentown, I know a really high-end collector. Huge collection. I won't say who it is, but on the way out, I was going to get some parts from him. He said, let me show you my church. He bought a church. He had to have something to house his high-end collection. How many games did you tell me you had? There were a hundred or more. A couple hundred in a church. so he took out so basically he wanted to find a place his real estate agent he said well i got you a place in this is a section of town with a warehouse he goes no no no people gonna break in break all my stuff no no i need something else well we do have this church that kind of went 10 years ago hmm on a main street sounds good with with uh houses nearby okay good so he looked at it he made friends with the neighbors the neighbors know what he does and it's all cool and he gets along with everybody. He bought it, and he took all the pews out, put rows of games in there. So it's kind of cool because it's almost like a pinball church. You still have all the nice Christian sayings and stuff up there in the background, but you have pinball in there. You know what I mean? So it's really weird. Somebody I bought my hot dog from, John, up in Ontario, Canada. This fits. The Church of the Silver Ball. Yes. It was the name of his arcade. sounds like that could be the name of this particular person's collection. You got a little bug right there. I got a bug? He went away. You like bugs, George. And I hate bugs. He wasn't biting much. And I see, are they called a murder of crows? Yeah, murder of crows. Yeah, look at them. That's my cleanup crew. Cleanup crew from the bugs? They keep the riffraff down in the neighborhood. what's the other thing that's called a murder what was the other thing maureen you said a murder of what no it was something else we'll think of it later there's a couple things with that okay we're gonna sign off here folks next episode dave and i will talk about his travels and travails i have a sheet from two months ago we go through it some of it will be relevant then some of it will be old news to you but I want to get it off my plate So until next time Dave and George signing off from the Classic Pinball Podcast. See you next time. See you, folks. Ballist Feature. 700? That's where I was probably going. If you put it on eBay for 700, you're going to give them 100 bucks of it back. I might start at an auction maybe and start it off at like six and see what happens. Yeah, so, you know, with the eBay fees, if you started at $7, you're going to give them right now, if you manage payments, they're going to take 13% back out of it. 13%? Yeah, because now it's $12. See, I was asking Jack that before. I'm recording, just so you know. This is interesting, and it's good for our podcast because this is my audience. So let me just do a real preamble. I'm standing here with my friend Jack and John, who has a booth here at Allentown, and we're discussing Fireball 2 NOS play field with Clear. So continue. We're talking about eBay. I was just telling, you know, for a product like this, you know, hard to find. Obviously, it's a really rare piece. It's in amazing condition. The clear coat's great on it. To the right buyer, it's worth the money. but with anything you sell on ebay it's uh it's time or money right you're going to give up time to get it sold fast right you got a bot you got a box this too after you're done and i'm guessing that's a 75 to 100 bill it's got to be yeah but because it's an oversized no it's not no no unless you have a cpr box which a lot of collectors have spare cpr but even so it's because it's an oversized box you get nailed on the oversized shipping who's ever buying it's paying no i'm I'm just saying, but that adds to the price. Your $1,100 play field just went to $1,200. Sure, absolutely. Right, that's what I'm getting at. So that's why a show is a lot better. You've got a guy like John here selling back glasses. It makes sense because people can pull it away. They can see it, and they can take it right then and there. Exactly. So that's the other thing is you put that on. I would say $1,100 just for the rarity and the condition and the clear coat alone because if you bought that NOS and they had to have it cleared, then you're back up to the price anyway. Well, any of the guys high end, I use Bill Davis, people use other people, but you're at six bills without even blinking. And I work at a body shop, so that's got the best automotive part. Right, Jack, what is it again for the audience? It's what, sickens? It's not sunk in inserts, so it looks really good, and I would say it's totally worth it, but it's just for that particular game, you're waiting for the buyer. So, you know, if I put that on eBay, I'd start it out at 11, you know, hoping to get lucky. And you just, you time it. Right, see what happens. You find out, you see what happens. But when I got, you know, my NOS Evil Knievel I was telling you about, right, you know, I thought I'd get more, but I could only pull 900 on it. Uh-huh. You know, but good luck finding another NOS Evil Knievel. Right. You can buy CPRs all day long now, but an NOS Evil Knievel, forget it. It's two different things. It's total. It's Jack. It was asking me and I told him bits and pieces of what you just spoke about. But we needed somebody like you to give us an education. And it's not just for me, but our audience. Just so you hear it from somebody else other than me and my partner who's not here yet. He's still sleeping. But this is a good education because you try to figure it out. We put it out there. Jack had somebody in the Midwest that wanted that old Chicago. But it was like, how do you get it there? He wanted to do the handoff. And it's like, that's way too complicated. I don't want to ship no glasses. Well, I've done them, and I've been successful. I ship a lot of back glasses, but they had a few of them breaker. So through the years of learning how to do it, I buy special boxes. I have a system. No, I have not had anything break due to my fault, but I've had it where people have got it where it looked like somebody stabbed a forklift through the box. Right. A customer called me once. It looked like the UPS driver drove over the box. There were tire tracks across the box. Right, okay. So he probably did. Okay, that kind of stuff, no, I can't stop that. That's not my fault. That's not your fault. And that's where I tell them, hold the packaging because they're paying for that. Right. Okay, but I ship to Europe. I ship all over the world. Oh, really? Oh, my God, yeah. Oh, great. Once you get the system, I found, I bought an NOS Gottlieb Clear Patra glass years ago. And from the factory, it was only a two-inch thick box, but they had edge cushioning for one inch all the perimeter of the glass. That was it. So glasses break when they take edge shots. You use corners, right? Do you use cardboard corners on yours? I have two inches of cushioning all the way around the edge of the glass. Okay, so you just went thick. Yep, I use a five-inch thick box, so there's a good two inches on either side of the glass. I do nothing contacting the printed surface because I don't want anything to rub against. I do seal them with the triple thick before they go out the door just because of temperature fluctuations and mishealing. I don't want flakes coming out when you get your glass. It's going to show up like you saw it in the photographs. I ship all over the world like that. I'm not upset with it because my system has just proved itself over time. I've shipped hundreds of glasses. Great. Do me a favor. Plug your business. I sell on eBay. my uh pinball company is novation pinball supply also jk jeepers awesome we don't want to keep you from yeah no thanks man we like talking with you dave who dave d-a-v-e yeah dave hey right hey dr dave here and if you're looking for that special game you remember playing from your youth restored by craftsman to look and play like new condition look no further as we may have it here in a restoration queue. Among the ones that are finished and ready for your game room are A Look and Play Like New, 1979 Bally Kiss with a new old stock, clear-coated playfield, and A Look and Play Like New, 1989, Gottlieb, Caribbean Antonio Cruz Cocktail Table, Multiplayer, Multiball, Pinball Machine. The following is a list of games in a restoration queue currently. Just drop us a line to let us know which title you desire. Once you put a deposit down for that title, that title is marked for you. Drop us an email for more details at dave at pinballdoctor.com That is pinballdoctor, all spelled out, P-I-N-B-A-L-L-D-O-C-T-O-R dot com. For 1990s games, we have Doctor Who and Twilight Zone. 1980s, Valley Hot Doggin', Skateball, Flash Gordon, Embryon, Fireball 2, Sea Witch, Nineball, and Firepower. 1970s, Supersonic, Stingray, Paragon, and Superman. And lastly for the electromechanical era, Captain Fantastic, Top Score, Flipper Pool, and a 1958 Gottlieb Criss Cross. Thank you. Thank you. To blame yourself Lay down and die like everybody else No, I don't care To just give up and walk away Hey, no Anything is possible You're not the only one Yeah Let them think you're unremarkable And prove them wrong

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