# SDTM: a pinball show Episode 13: Collector Interview with Mike and Matt from St. Louis

**Source:** Straight Down the Middle  
**Type:** video  
**Published:** 2017-04-21  
**Duration:** 43m 8s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlBne99nELY

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## Analysis

Zach Sharpe from Straight Down the Middle interviews Mike and Matt, two St. Louis-based pinball collectors with a combined 24+ machines. They discuss their entry into pinball (childhood experiences at bowling alleys and arcades), favorite games (Lethal Weapon 3, The Simpsons Pinball Party), underrated titles (Baywatch, Bad Cats), and controversial picks (disliking Ghostbusters' playability and The Walking Dead's flow). They speculate on pinball's future, including smaller displays, more ball-manipulation mechanics, and dream themes like Futurama and Animaniacs.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Spooky Pinball is making an Alice Cooper pinball machine — _Mike states this as confirmed knowledge during future predictions discussion_
- [HIGH] Jersey Jack Pinball's smaller displays (The Hobbit, Wizard of Oz) are harder to see while playing than larger screens — _Matt discussing display trends and trade-offs_
- [MEDIUM] Attack from Mars expanded DMD with updated graphics maintains the spirit of the original — _Mike and Matt discussing modernization of classic designs_
- [HIGH] George Gomez (Stern designer) envisions Stern maintaining backglass art while embracing new technology — _Matt referencing Gomez's design philosophy_
- [HIGH] Ghostbusters plays poorly despite beautiful artwork and sound design — _Matt's direct criticism: 'It plays like crap. So not smooth. So not funky.'_
- [HIGH] The Walking Dead has three bash toys and problematic stop-and-go flow — _Mike detailing specific mechanical complaints about the game_
- [MEDIUM] The Hobbit is priced very high (context: their friend paid significantly more than they're comfortable with) — _Matt mentioning pricing concerns preventing purchase_
- [MEDIUM] Hook has received code updates from Chad that are purportedly good — _Mike mentioning he heard about improvements to Hook's code_
- [HIGH] A homebrew Nightmare Before Christmas pinball machine was played at Pinball Expo with unique shot layout — _Matt confirming he played it at the expo_
- [MEDIUM] The Big Lebowski Pinball (First Model) ships with difficulty/delays — _Matt: 'If they can ship them out. Right, yeah, that's the thing.'_

### Notable Quotes

> "That's what I respect and I just really like about your choices is that they're different. They're not the top ten on Pinside or anything like that. They're games that you like, and you don't give a shit if anybody else likes them or not."
> — **Zach Sharpe**, ~14:30
> _Highlights the core appeal of the collectors' approach—playing what they love regardless of community consensus_

> "I love the depth. There's always something to do for big boy pinball players like us... but then when my wife gets on it, she doesn't play pinball very much, she still has fun with it."
> — **Matt**, ~10:45
> _Demonstrates The Simpsons' appeal across skill levels and accessibility_

> "It plays like crap. So not smooth. So not funky."
> — **Matt**, ~24:00
> _Direct criticism of Ghostbusters despite acknowledging its artistic qualities—highlights playability vs. theme tension_

> "That's what we love about pinball. We're sitting down here we all equally love pinball but the game that you freaking hate I think is the greatest thing ever made. And neither one of us are right or wrong."
> — **Zach Sharpe**, ~28:45
> _Encapsulates the community's tolerance for divergent preferences on the same games_

> "I started playing this one, again, at the bowling alley... It was a mess when I got it."
> — **Mike**, ~46:00
> _Common collector narrative of restoration and redemption of neglected machines_

> "No, yeah, exactly. No, the predecessor to that. Honestly, I think I'd like to get a Hook."
> — **Mike**, ~36:15
> _Unexpected choice given earlier ribbing; indicates willingness to revisit 'unpopular' titles with code improvements_

> "Hipper with flippers."
> — **Zach Sharpe**, ~45:00
> _Coined tagline reflecting Dr. Dude's theme and the show's spirit_

> "Everything will be a great pinball machine. That's why I like Bad Cats and things like that. They make original kind of stuff."
> — **Mike**, ~51:30
> _Preference for original themes over licensed IP; reflects ongoing creative tension in the industry_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Zach Sharpe | person | Host of Straight Down the Middle podcast; conducted collector interview |
| Mike | person | St. Louis-based pinball collector with 24 machines; favorites include Lethal Weapon 3; plays original/obscure titles |
| Matt | person | St. Louis-based pinball collector with 7 machines; favorite is The Simpsons Pinball Party; critical of playability on Ghostbusters and Walking Dead |
| Nicole | person | Co-host/producer of Straight Down the Middle; facilitates interview logistics |
| Spooky Pinball | company | Boutique pinball manufacturer; confirmed to be producing Alice Cooper machine |
| Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Manufacturer known for games like The Hobbit and Wizard of Oz with smaller displays |
| Stern Pinball | company | Major manufacturer; discussed in context of LCD displays and design philosophy |
| George Gomez | person | Legendary Stern pinball designer; vision for maintaining backglass art while embracing technology |
| Chad | person | Code developer/programmer; credited with Hook code update improvements |
| Dutch Pinball | company | Potential manufacturer for Animaniacs machine discussed as dream theme |
| CPR (Classic Pinball Restoration) | company | Restoration service; credited with clear-coding Mike's Bad Cats machine |
| Scratch | person | Homebrew designer; created Archer pinball machine praised for layout |
| Cameron Silver Slugger | game | Alvin Gottlieb Street-level machine in Mike's collection; played at bowling alleys in his youth |
| Dr. Dude | game | Williams/Bally game in Mike's collection; represents wacky 80s/90s design philosophy |
| Bride of Pinbot | game | Game in Mike's collection with new playfield installation planned; features bash toy and ramp combinations |
| Black Knight 2000 | game | Game in Mike's collection; custom settings adjusted from original 50-cent/5-ball configuration to 3-ball |
| Lethal Weapon 3 | game | Mike's favorite machine; praised for flow, shooter-friendly design, and song callouts |
| The Simpsons Pinball Party | game | Matt's favorite machine; praised for depth, family appeal, and challenging wizard mode |
| The Hobbit | game | Jersey Jack game; high-priced collector's item with 31 modes and multiple wizard modes; target of want-to-own |
| Hook | game | Pinball machine with recent code improvements; Mike's aspirational acquisition despite past criticism |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Collector psychology and acquisition strategy, Game design philosophy: original themes vs. licensed IP, Playability vs. aesthetics tension (Ghostbusters, Walking Dead)
- **Secondary:** Display technology evolution (DMD vs. LCD vs. smaller displays), Underrated and divisive machines in the community, Future of pinball: ball-manipulation mechanics and design trends
- **Mentioned:** Pinball restoration and customization, Tournament and casual play venues in St. Louis region

### Sentiment

**Positive** (0.82) — Hosts and guests express genuine enthusiasm for pinball despite critical assessments of specific games. Conversation is celebratory of niche collecting passion and community diversity. Disagreements (Ghostbusters, Walking Dead) are framed as valid differences in taste, not conflicts. Future-focused discussion is optimistic about design innovation.

### Signals

- **[community_signal]** St. Louis pinball community has active venues (VFW Hall with semi-annual events, CPU Pinball social events) supporting collector engagement (confidence: high) — Discussion of Midwest Pin Fest (historical), VFW Hall events, CPU Pinball, and bachelor party hosting
- **[sentiment_shift]** The Walking Dead is polarizing; some love the rule set while others find it choppy and frustrating due to three bash toys and flow issues (confidence: high) — Mike: 'I can't stand The Walking Dead.' Matt: 'Those two, I bullshit you not, those two are probably my favorite games ever made... it just... Man, it doesn't flow.'
- **[design_philosophy]** Preference among collectors for original/unlicensed themes over licensed IP as more creative and fun (confidence: medium) — Mike: 'That would make a great pinball machine... Everything will be a great pinball machine. That's why I like Bad Cats and things like that. They make original kind of stuff.'
- **[design_philosophy]** George Gomez (Stern) advocates for maintaining backglass art and pinball tradition while embracing modern technology (confidence: high) — Matt: 'What George Gomez (legendary Sam Stern designer), he envisions that for Stern, is not let go of the art or what makes a pinball machine a pinball machine.'
- **[leak_detection]** Nightmare Before Christmas homebrew pinball machine exists and was playable at Pinball Expo with unique shot layout (confidence: high) — Matt: 'I played it at Pinball Expo... the shot layout is so unique... I would love to have a machine like that.'
- **[market_signal]** The Hobbit (Jersey Jack) positioned as premium collector item with very high pricing that deters casual buyers (confidence: medium) — Matt: 'My buddy bought one... I don't want to drop that. I don't want to drop that... Thank God, too.'
- **[announcement]** Spooky Pinball confirmed to be producing Alice Cooper pinball machine (confidence: high) — Mike: 'I know we're going to see Alice Cooper, which I'm really thrilled about, let me tell you. Wait, they're making an Alice Cooper? Yeah, Spooky Pinball is making Alice Cooper.'
- **[product_strategy]** Hook received code updates that are rumored to be positive improvements, potentially reviving interest (confidence: medium) — Mike: 'I heard. I heard. I want to see that. I've heard it's good.'
- **[product_concern]** Ghostbusters criticized for poor playability despite strong aesthetic and audio design (confidence: high) — Matt: 'The artwork's beautiful. The sound is incredible. The modes are fun... it plays like crap. So not smooth. So not funky.'
- **[technology_signal]** Future pinball displays expected to move toward smaller formats and move away from large 27-inch LCD screens, balancing costs with visibility (confidence: medium) — Matt: 'I think in the future... they're going to start getting a little smaller, kind of like Batman 66 is... I don't think it's going to be the 27-inch screen up on top.'

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## Transcript

 You hit it off with a bumper, now you're straight down the middle again, middle again. You had a fling with a fling shot, you're rolling out the island again. I tried to cradle you with my flipper, it was all in vain, it was all in vain. Baby, baby, baby, why are you doing me wrong? Doing me wrong. Don't you remember the good days when we used to get along? We'd make those four wheels spin all night, then we'd be singing our song, then we'd sing our song. You said life was getting white, so you brought two friends in, two friends in. But I can hardly keep up, you guys are making my head spin. Now I've let you all drain in my dang old flint. What's up everybody? This is Zach with Straight Down the Middle Pinball. We're here with Mike, and we are here with Matt, local guys in St. Louis here. How's it going, fellas? Good, thank you, man. So right now we're at Mike's house, and we get to see his terrific, fabulous collection. I'm super pumped to go over it and to meet these kick-ass guys. So that being said, Nicole, let me get some questions here. All right. the pink phone case is my wife's guys it's not mine i promise all right so let's start with mike what got you into pinball man um honestly i kind of grew up with it at my grandparents house and um kind of enjoyed it then and uh then when my dad would ever go bowling or we go to the local it's always at the bowling alley yeah or the pizza yeah my parents bowled so i was always at the bowling alley playing demo man. Yep. I think I remember my first really putting a lot of quarters in was Silver Slugger at West County Lane. Silver Slugger. Oh, yes. And you have one, right? Finally. Yeah, I thought you had one looking in the collection. Very cool. Very cool. What about you? What got you into pinball? So I played it not as much as him as a kid. I always liked it. But then about four years ago, he got me into it. Oh, very nice. Yeah. Yeah, I've got my best buddy. So I got one machine, which was Elvira and the Party Monsters. That was my first game. And you still have that. And I still have it. Yeah, I know Matt. He's still got that. And I've tried to buy that from him. Yeah, and I've tried to sell it, but then I backed out. I don't blame you, man. It's a beautiful game. Beautiful game. Yep. Alright, so you guys got into it younger. How old were you, would you say, when you first started thinking, hey, this pinball stuff's kind of fun? Oh, jeez. I'm trying to think. I was probably 10. I was about to say 9 or 10. Yeah, about Ted and I played, what was it, Aladdin's Castle in Chesterfield Mall. They had one there. I think so. It was the Time Out Arcade one. It was right by... Don't talk about that Aladdin's Castle. Oh, yeah. No, there was one in Westport. I played Robo. I remember playing Star Trek The Next Generation at Chesterfield Mall. They loved it. Hell, yeah. I'm surprised it didn't turn you off as a kid, though, because that's a damn hard game. That was really hard. I didn't know what the hell I was doing. But I had fun because I like Star Trek. That's really cool. Yeah. So what were your first machines, then? First, like, legitimate. I'm an adult. I'm getting into pinball. I'm buying a machine. Roller games. Hell yeah. I'm a big fan of roller games. I love that game. It's terrific. It's cheesy. The music's awesome. That's one of the first games I remember really pumping quarters into at the pizza place. Roller games. Oh, yeah. Rock, rock. I love that. You'll never forget the song, ever. It's catchy. It's a good song. Oh, yeah. I love that. And it's based off a cheesy TV show I never knew existed. That got canceled before it started. Yeah. I know. Richie loved that. So what about you, man? Elvira was the first one. Nice. Okay. Well, that's a kick-ass game to start out with. It is a kick-ass game, and I wasn't really looking for any specific game. I just decided I want a pinball machine. I'm going to get the first one that comes up at a decent price, and it happened to be Elvira, which I kind of felt bad for because he already had one, and we tried not to get duplicates. Well, the reason why I got it is he came over once, and we had maybe a handful of games at that time, including roller games. I think Bad Cats, Sleep the Weapon was busted. I think we only had one wall in that room. Yeah, there was a much smaller room at the time, but we spent probably four hours playing Elvira straight through. I just loved it. I could probably do that, too. I could probably do that, too. All right, let's see what's next. All right, how long have you been in the hobby? We kind of touched that. What is your favorite machine? Favorite machine, man. Hands tied down, you've got to pick one machine. Not one machine forever, but just what is your favorite machine? I've got to say Lethal Weapon 3. Oh my god! I love it! Wow! You guys weren't ready for that one, were you? Okay, okay, okay. Yeah, best call-out ever. Okay, okay, okay. But no, seriously, what makes that game so much fun is it's a great shooter's machine. There's a lot of flow to it. I like the little windy... The ramp is a blast. I mean, you see that. That's cool. But the best part of it is you start the game, you get to choose from three songs, And, of course, when it starts blasting, everybody get it, Kyle! And it's like, oh, yeah, that was just terrific. Oh, Jesus. Oh, that's so bad, man. Again, edible. Thank you for saying that. Greg, you're out there. You love that damn game, and I'm so mean to him about it. And I'm going to continue to be mean to you. But, man, I love that your favorite game is Lethal Weapon 3. Dude, you'll see his collection. It's so eccentric and awesome. And then you go with Lethal Weapon. What about you? My favorite game is the Simpsons pinball party. Yeah. I love that game. Before you will be buried in that game. I will be buried in that game. I will never get rid of that game. I love The Simpsons. I love pinball. Cool. And I love fun games, and those are all in that package. So what's your favorite part about The Simpsons? I love the depth. Oh, man. There's always something to do for big boy pinball players like us. We can have a lot to do, but then when my wife gets on it, she doesn't play pinball very much. she still has fun with it. The kids have fun with it. The grown-ups have fun with it. Everyone loves that game. That's awesome. Yeah, it's a family-friendly game, but for the serious guys, try getting to that extra special wizard mode, and it will make you feel like a fool. Yeah, it's hard to get to. All right. What machine... Oh, I love this question. What machine do you guys love that frickin' everybody hates? Everybody hates. Lethal Weapon! You can go first, Dave. I don't know if everyone hates it, but I give Baywatch a lot more credit than most people give it. It's a cheesy theme, and there's camel toe on the cabinet. There's a lot of camel toe on the cabinet. And it's not classy at all, but the layout is fun. We were talking off camera before that if we took the Simpsons layout and put it on a terrible theme, it would still be fun. I think that's kind of similar with Baywatch. Baywatch. It's a powerful theme. I love the beginning when it's that big Sega display. It's like... Yeah. It goes in the music. The Baywatch theme. I love that. What about you? My friend had it, and no one understood what I liked. It had that heavy metal meltdown. You know what's crazy? So obnoxious. I was watching a video the other day about that, I think with the ball lock and stuff, and I thought, that looks like a pretty cool game. It's ingenious for how much Bally was really kind of cutting corners to stay in business. Very unique how they did that. And also the music changes up a little bit as you lock balls. And I guess lastly, the theatrics of the game. When you're getting ready for the multiball, I mean, the game goes nuts. You have heavy metal meltdown, the guitar starts rocking and amping up, the lights flash, and then you're off. That's awesome. And I think you guys are seeing a theme in Mike's choices here. That's what I respect and I just really like about your choices is that they're different. They're not the top ten on Pinside or anything like that. They're games that you like, and you don't give a shit if anybody else likes them or not. Exactly. That's cool. A lot of people tend to, but yeah, they're definitely... We'll see in a little bit, you guys. He clear-coded his bad cats. That's awesome! Yeah, it needed it. Unbelievable. And it's beautiful, too. It is beautiful. It's so pretty. I've got to give props to CPR for that one. They did a good job. CPR did that. What game do you guys hate that everybody just cannot get enough of? They just love it. Well, the whole reason we're having this conversation right now, I bought a Ghostbusters. That's right. And the artwork's beautiful. The sound is incredible. The modes are fun. Uh-oh. I'm waiting for it. Oh, it plays like crap. So not smooth. So not funky. The Data Easts play smoother than that. Oh! Gary had time to get this figured out. No dice. Shots fired. Oh, sorry. Sorry. And it's one of my favorite games. I'll be honest. Well, you are here picking it up. Yeah, that's exactly right. Sorry. Oh, one man's lost, another man's game. Yeah, exactly. So Ghostbusters, you just hate it. It's just the play. It really is the play. Everything else about it is perfect. You can make clunky. Oh, that counts for a lot. Yeah. What about you, man? You know, I can't stand The Walking Dead. Oh, my God. Yeah. Those two, I bullshit you not, those two are probably my favorite games ever made. And that seems like everyone raves about The Walking Dead, and every time I play it, it's just stop and go. I can't get it flowing. I love games that flow. And that one, it just... Man, see that? That bad guy on the right. A bash toy? What? No. They're like, we don't want one bash toy. We want two bash toys. We want every bash toy. There's three bash toys. I love the show, but I hate the game. That is so wild. I know. I cannot get enough of The Walking Dead. I play it and I want to play it again and again and again the rule set and everything. That's what I love about pinball. We're sitting down here we all equally love pinball but the game that you freaking hate I think is the greatest thing ever made. And neither one of us are right or wrong. Right. No. Completely. And that's all that matters. If we both start playing it we'll have a great time. Exactly. I can have fun on you've got a millionaire that people rag on. Yeah. I can have fun on Millionaire. It's a lot more fun than it looks once you really I do want to take home this bad boy with me today. I want to take home this one. I wouldn't mind taking home. How many can you fit in that top? I cannot fit in that one. Stack them. You'll be fine. Just watch your own asses. I just said two in one. All right What is next Nicole your phone goes off All right Where do you guys see pinball heading in the future What do you think we got coming up five ten years from now I know we've got Alice Cooper, which I'm really thrilled about, let me tell you. Wait, they're making an Alice Cooper? Yeah, Spooky is making Alice Cooper. That sounds about right. Well, how many rock bands in the past have they made? Because I think they're just going to keep churning them out. I can't wait for the Twisted Sister machine. Twisted Sister, that's right. But where I think it's going, I think we're going to start seeing the smaller displays. Oh, okay. I think the ones from Jersey Jack with the Hobbit and Wizard of Oz, I think they're beautiful, but I think in the future, when you're playing it, you can't really look at those. That's true. It's hard to look at those. And so in order to cut costs a little bit, I think they're going to start getting a little smaller, kind of like Batman 66 is. What do you guys think about the Attack from Mars, the expanded DMD? I'm genius. I think that is. We were looking at pictures of that. And updated graphics. And same spirit, but just a little more modern. That looks perfect. What do you think about Stern's new LCD? That's a nice compromise in between a DMD and a Jersey Jack. Yeah, I think they should be bigger and better than DMDs. But I don't think it's going to be the 27-inch screen up on top. So you think they'll start simplifying things a little bit? Yeah, pay a little more heed to their roots and have an actual back class with some art on there. Yeah, that's what George Gomez, he envisions that for Stern, is not let go of the art or what makes a pinball machine a pinball machine. What about you, Mike? I'm thinking and I'm hoping they're going to more go with ways to manipulate the pinball toys. As you've seen with Aerosmith, how the... The toy box? Yeah, the toy box holds and kicks the balls out. You know, they've done a pretty decent job with magnets, with the magnet slings. You know, I love magnets in a game. Like Twilight Zone? I can't get enough magnets. Dialed In. Have you guys seen the new Dialed In? I have not. I have not seen it. Oh, boy, you guys, that is a fun shooter there. But it's got magnets everywhere. Like Adam's Family or something. Yeah, just different ways to manipulate the ball. Like even with the Stern's Bash toy, even like with Ghostbusters, they've changed it all together. It's now a moving target. Yes. Mine doesn't register so well, but... This one works great. I can promise you that. And if you hit it, it'll go straight down the middle for you. That's right. Right down the flipper gap. Straight down the middle. Look at that. These guys know. Zing! These guys know. All right. What is your favorite pinball show or expo or where you go to hang out and do pinball stuff? Well, when I was a kid, there was the Midwest Pin Fest back in 92 and 93. My parents would drop me off and say, knock your stuff out. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. That's a cool story. trying to sell the game trying to hate me because I was just the whole time my wrists were killing me. No, VFW Hall currently is a blast. He opens it up once or twice a year. We go there every year. Very cool. And that's the only one we've ever been to, I think. Really? Now, around you guys there's CPU Pinball, isn't there? Oh, yeah. Chuck is a blast. I've been up there once, met him. Cool dude. He's got a weird set up there. It works. It's awesome. He said that there's some pretty kick-ass parties and stuff that go on there. Oh, I had my bachelor party there. Oh, yeah. I remember that as a boy. He picked up pizza for us. Yeah, he picked up pizza for us. And we had a great time. That's perfect. Yeah. I don't know how many machines. So, speaking of how many machines, how many machines do you guys have? Oh, shoot. I think I've got... We'll see Mike's here in a minute, but how many... Yeah, go ahead. Sorry. I have seven in my basement currently. Nice. Yeah. Sounds like a good number to me. Yeah. I'm to the brim now. Are you? I don't have anywhere else to put them. Oh, you'll find a place. Well, yeah. And then my wife will leave me. That's right. Do I get more games that way, though? Nope, that's perfect. Silver lining. Hey, Julie. I have 23 down here. That's a nice good odd number. Yeah, and then one upstairs. Well, it's truly necessity that kind of limited the games. I'd have more once you should get a bigger house, but I can't be trusted with a bigger house. It's just more games and then run out of space again. Exponentially. I like that. All right, next question. You guys are doing great. What machine would you guys love to own? You just can't get around to buying one. Maybe it's too expensive. Maybe they're hard to find. What would you love to have in your collection? Right now, for me, it's the Hobbit. Our buddy that went up to Seattle, he only took two games with him because he lives in a closet up there. And he pays more than all of us together. But he got up there and immediately bought a new in-box Hobbit. and it is and he had four people help him bring it home yeah it is the most beautiful game i think i've ever played i love that game 31 modes yeah three wizard modes multi-balls galore benedict cumberbatch's sexy voice right you know he's right he's right but i cannot pull the trigger with that much money though my buddy bought one i'm like thank god thank god you bought one because I don't want to drop that. I don't want to drop that. Thank God, too. That's right. That's exactly right. It's true. What about you? I mean... You've got a shitload of games. I know. I don't know what you would want. Yeah, well, it's like, my thing is like some of the newer ones are pretty good, but I have a little bit of more of a nostalgia for some of the older games I used to play and enjoy. I can appreciate that. And honestly, again, Drum Roll, please. Oh, no, not Lethal Weapon 4. No, yeah, exactly. No, the predecessor to that. Honestly, I think I'd like to get a hook. Okay, yeah, I was ragging you little bit about that. Yeah, but it's got enough going on. Yes, the modes aren't the deepest, and I think probably the way the code's written probably wasn't the greatest. Well, Chad's got an update on this code. I heard. I heard. I want to see that. I've heard it's good. But it's got a good amount of shots, not too many, not too little. That ramp is a blast. Again, it's kind of watching the ball do its thing, and the vertical up kicker, I think, feeds back into the ramp, and on top of it, you've got the fun skill shot, but it's not just a one-trick pony, because during the game there's actually a diverter that can put the ball back in your skill shot. Kind of like Machine Bride of Pinbot does that. So you get to mix it up a little bit. Bride of Pinbot. Oh, she pops it everywhere. I like that left orbit shot. Yeah. Okay. So how long do games usually stay in your all's collection? Do you guys go through them like I do because I'm broke? or do you keep a mic because you've got 20 plus. You're keeping yours too. Yeah, I tend to keep mine. Except that you guys have a whirlwind and I think you said you'd be willing to sell it to me, right? We'll get there. We've got to get a refund. Just imagine, I love whirlwinds. But yeah, I tend to try to get the games that I want to play and then the only reason I end up getting rid of them is because something else comes up where I was like, okay, I really want that. I have my Star Trek The Next Generation. I put a lot of work into making that look good for my collection. And then I saw that you wanted to trade a Game of Thrones for a Star Trek The Next Generation. So I thought, oh, well, I don't want to get rid of it, but I really want a Game of Thrones. And you're loving that, aren't you? Oh, I love it. I miss next gen, though. I do miss that game a little bit. Yeah, it's weird. Any game you get rid of, I think you miss. Are there any games that you guys have not gotten, or you're glad you got rid of the damn thing, and you don't want to see it ever again? Besides Ghostbusters, man. Lion Man! Oh my god, yeah, yeah, no. Swords of Fury. Pretty much. Got it on this guy. Wasn't working, wasn't booting, and I'm like, I think I can probably work on this and get it going. And I got it running. You know, it's a System 11. People said it was a great game, ranked really high. Played it, and it just didn't do it for me. I mean, it was throwing the ball back at the flipper so quick, because it's got all the... It's an interesting layout. Yeah, it's unique and it's fun. And, like, you look at it and it's really an appealing-looking play field in terms of, like, there's plenty to do on it. But the lack of the pop bumpers. I really like pop bumpers on the game. And it throws the ball right back at you. Very nice. Very nice. All right. What else we got? Any other weird hobbies you guys have? Because you guys have to admit, pinball is kind of weird. I mean, it's a kick-ass, but it's... I nerd out about it. And it's kind of weird. Any other weird hobbies that you guys have? Astronomy. Interesting. Yeah, I go out into a field with a telescope and camp out for the night. Nice. Good. You beat me to it. Yeah. That's nice. I know. I have a blast. At least at pinball, we try to be kind of cool. Yeah. Usually fail, but yeah. That's right. There's no acting cool. A strong, you wear it. That's what I would have never guessed, man. Yeah, I love it. What about you, Mike? Honestly, well, I like my dog. His name's Ernie. I'm glad he's helping out. Hey, Ernie. How you doing, Ernie? But I like fixing things and working on things. I really do. Yeah, if one of my friends has something broken, they'll usually call me and say, hey, I need help with this. What's this doing? That's kind of my little thing there. Everyone's like, oh, this is going to go. So you just like say how they work and just put them in. Exactly. You look at it, and if something's not doing what it's supposed to be doing, then you just look at it and figure it out. Very nice. What is your dream theme in a pinball machine? You get to pick your own theme, whether it's licensed. Maybe unlicensed even. I don't know. Oh, jeez. What is your dream? These guys have talked about this before. I can tell. A little bit. Okay. You go ahead first. We'll just be having a normal conversation. Oh, jeez. Oh, that would make a great pinball machine. That would be a great thing. Oh, tax attorneys? That would make a great pinball machine. Tax attorneys? Oh, garbage man? Great pinball machine. Oh, man. Everything will be a great pinball machine. That's why I like bad cats and things like that. They make original kind of stuff. I would love to see a Futurama pinball machine. A lot of people would, man. Still my thunder. So both of you guys are Futurama? That's one of them. Yeah, we've actually talked about it, like the logistics of making our own pinball machine. And we start thinking about it and go, we are making a bad-ass pinball machine. Yeah, they're doing good. Now, the guy from Scratch, though, his archer is pretty darn good. But the one layout I really like seeing is the guy who's making the Nightmare before Christmas. I completely, I couldn't agree with you more. I played it at Expo. What? Yeah. Really? I got to watch it with you. Oh, my gosh, yes. You guys, the shot layout is so unique. Exactly. It is awesome. He's put a lot of work into it, but, man, I would love to have a machine like that. Gotcha. I'm totally with you. So, Future Realm, anything else that you guys would love to see? Oh, yeah. Okay, so two totally nerdy ones. I really like cartoony non scenes You kind of see that in the theme for most of the games honestly Hey I love to see an Animaniacs game I never heard anybody say that but I love that theme Dude, imagine if you could walk the three... The Water Tower? Yeah, walk the three pinballs, you know, over Echo Echo and Dot, it tips over, they escape, or there's different ways... Oh, he's thought about it. Oh my gosh, I have no idea. You know those hip hippos, the fat hippos, you know, Flabio, whatever they call her? It's like, the two slingshots need to have their bellies kicking out along with it. No, I kid you not. I kid you not. Started listening to this Animaniacs. You'd sell it to me. Who's one? Yeah, our speaker. Jersey Joe? No. I don't think Jersey Joe. No, mine. Well, I'll see. Dutch! I was like, they'll make a great... But no, like, in all honesty, I've got to say, I've played the big Lebowski. It plays terrific. They've done a great job with the plastics and the bowling pin in the back and the bowling ball. Like, they really do a good job with it. If they can ship them out. Right, yeah, that's the thing. And that's the difficulty of it. This is not easy to make these things. And then one last theme, aside from the Animaniacs, is back in the 80s, Walt Disney's Epcot Center. They had a ride called Journey to Imagination with Figment. I don't know if many people remember it. I remember that, man. Did you love that? Oh, it's an ADD kid's dream. I've never been officially diagnosed with it, but all my friends will tell you. Oh, shit. I can help you out with that. But, no, it's amazing. like you've got a great narrative, you've got great characters and literally there's different parts of the rides with different modes. Do you remember the art room where everything's white and the smell of the room too, that floral smell? You're the guy that kept that stupid ass ride going. Oh, I know. I was like, can they not rip this damn thing out? Oh no! This is the worst. All the inserts go white on that mode and as you hit target you start bringing the color back. I mean, seriously. That's actually a cool idea. Maybe not even for that theme, but that's a cool idea of restoring colors. Yeah, yeah. I like that. Figment Animaniacs. You know what? Coming here, you guys, I would have never thought I got that. Animaniacs, Figment, F-Cuts, Figment. Imagination, oh my gosh. I would have never guessed that. That's what we love about pinball. Again, I'm Zach from straight down the middle. We are going to go over this beautiful collection now, so let's go to the machine. All right, Mike, tell us a little bit about Silver Slugger. I don't see this ever in anybody's collection, so it's very unique. Yeah. I got to start playing this one, again, at the bowling alley. It was pretty approachable. I think it was only a quarter to play at the time. Oh, that's cool. It was cut out quite a bit. But, yeah. That thing is clean, man. It's beautiful. It was a mess when I got it. The person who bought it from that was showing it off to me was saying how... Come on, look at this thing. This thing is awesome. He thought the prior person checking the game out broke it. Well, it really wasn't the case. Most of the light bulbs were burnt out. That's always nice to have. Yes. What do you love about this game? What shots do you love? I really like the orbits. It does look like a smooth orbit there. Very smooth. The gameplay is very fast. This is a Gottlieb Street-level game. This was kind of their answer to operators asking for cheaper, more simple, easy-to-work-on games. I think they made about five different games. Yeah, it is a beautiful game. It's a lot of fun. Let's move down. This thing caught my eye whenever I first came in. Dr. Dude. Dr. Dude. Tell me a little bit about Dr. Dude. Do you love this thing? Is it just ant for you? Where does it fall in the lineup? It's a blast. It's just so wacky and zany. This is 80s wacky or 90s wacky. This is just so Dennis Nordman. It really is. I remember playing this at Six Flags quite a bit. Six Flags St. Louis from Mid-America, what it was called back then. But, I mean, come on. It raps about the gift of gab. You've got to collect all the stuff that makes you cool. It's got the cartoony comic book kind of thing. And, of course, it's the blonde nurse. What more do you want? That's right. I love it. It's just a really cool, fun game that does not take itself too seriously. No, and that's one of the beauties I find with Pinball. It's kind of its own theme. Very much so. You were not cool before, and you turned into Dr. Dude and become cool. You get hipper with flippers, man. Hipper with flippers. That is the theme of this show, hipper with flippers. All right, now we would move on to the Bride of Pinbot, but I hate that game. So we're going to keep moving on. Oh, I got a new play field waiting to go in it. Come on. Give us a synopsis real quick. What do you love about this game? Help me out because there's nothing I like about it. Dude, try to get her to change into a woman. I mean that's kind of the whole point again. It's just left ramp all day. I know, everyone says bash left ramp, but if you actually want to try to do some other things. I know, there's more to it. But the combos are fun and that middle ramp is very challenging because if you mess it up, you're going straight down the middle. But it's fair, you can really score some points, but it will punish you if you mess up on it. I will say, it's a beautiful machine. And you said you've got a playfield that you're going to put into it? Oh yes, you can see the inserts are kind of worn and the new playfield can't be straight to Germany. You're looking forward to that, aren't you? Very much so. That's awesome. Let's move down. Let's talk about Black Knight 2000 because it's a game that when I first started playing, I thought, I hate this damn thing. It's too hard. But then the more I played it, I thought, this thing's fun and beautiful. I love it. Yep. It depends on your settings, really. This game originally was supposed to be 50 cents a play, five balls. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. And so they made it really hard to get the ball locks. You have to shoot the three stand-ups and drop down the gate. And it would raise after every single time. It got really tedious. So what I did is I switched it to three balls. And once you knock down the gate, it stays down for you. It's still challenging enough. It does shorten the game up a little bit because it does get a little daunting to play when you have to play all five balls. This is making me want one of these. It plays very well. Beautiful. Man, I love the back glass. It's in good shape. So nice. This game actually has a new board in it. It had some battery acid damage, and it was a matter of time when it was going to fail. And the board, they no longer make the reproduction board. It was by Kohawk Brothers. Terrific board. Probably better than what Williams made initially. Oh, how about that? Yeah. LED indicator lights for the switch matrix and the lamps. Okay. Really, really well done. Boy, that's cool. Let's talk about one of my favorite games, and everybody razzes me over, but we're in the same boat on this one. Yes. You love rock, rock, rock and roller games, don't you? Bring out the 80s cheese, baby. best tune of all the games ever made. I love it. The multiball I love. I love the side shot. It's a Ritchie game, so it's nice and fast. It's addictive. This thing is so much fun. I think one of the first games with a magnet that actually holds the ball on the flipper so you can make your shot. It yells at you, don't flip and flip. That's right. Simple enough, right? Yeah, great flow and great theatrics. Go in here and get a look at that thing. It really pops you up for the multiball. The game turns off after the third ball locked. One of the catchiest tunes. Oh, yeah. And then you hear the whole crowd start chanting, roller games. Roller games. Roller games. Go for the wall. Pretty much. Alright, now we're on to your second row of pins. Man, I wish I had the same problem. I've got rows and rows of pins. But we've talked at length on SDTM about Jurassic Park. Greg and I are huge fans of it. So we're going to move down to Atlantis. I love the look of Atlantis and Elvira right next to each other with the same cabinet heads. This is my favorite ballet cabinet. I just love it. I love that thing. Tell us about Atlantis. Well, a gentleman was moving out of town and wanted to get rid of it, so I met up with him and didn't give him a low-ball offer, which apparently he had tons of. Oh, really? And, yeah, the game LED'd and cleaned up really well. I love the art on this game. Oh, my gosh. I love the blue, the sharks, and the use of the cheese wedge. inserts up top to kind of boost the vertical up. Now, they were so interesting about the displays and the boards that you were telling me about before. Tell the viewers about that. Well, Bally bought Williams back, I think, in 88 or 89, and this was kind of the last piece of Bally before everything turned into Williams System 11. So this still has the Bally MPU, the Bally displays, but it's married to a Williams soundboard. So it's a mix of a little bit of everything on it. Yeah. This is like their first love child. Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. I love chess. Oh, yes. Very much so. Let's move down to Elvira. A lot of people's favorite game. It is just a complete beauty. It's a blast to play. What do you love about this game? The boogeymen are just hysterical. Aren't they funny? Very much so. The ramps are, again, great with just going all over the place. And who doesn't like a Halloween spooky theme with a great light show for the start of a multiball? In Elvira. Of course. She is pinball, isn't she? Well, you know, as a kid, of course, half the gags go straight over your head. And then when you get older, you're like, oh, my goodness. She's holding a hot dog. Okay. Well, you know, the multiball starts, and they're playing an organ in the background, and she says, ooh, nice organ. And you're like, oh, the organ sounds great. So that's what she'd be talking about. That's right. Let's go to Bad Cats. Look at this. Now, you just put a clear coat on this, right? Yep. It's a replacement play field. If you want to see the original one by comparison, it's right up here. You can see the white is turned into brown and the nice shiny gray turned into like an army green. Very nice. Very nice. But it plays much faster and it's quite a bit more challenging than it was with the original playfield that was on it. Because there's no mylar. It is strictly clear coat. You guys, look how pretty that playfield is. Oh, my God. Look at the ramps, everything. Yeah, that was my first attempt at flame polishing, and thankfully nothing went too terribly wrong. Would you recommend that, or is that just kind of a pain? Be very careful, because you can really destroy your ramps. Yeah, you take a propane torch, and you go very quickly. I like doing it against the sunlight, so you can see exactly when the scratches start fusing away. You just need a lot of light to see, and you're not going to get them crystal clear, but you can get them dark. Hey, I mean, you did a terrific job. That looks awesome. Again, your games make me want, like, I want a Bad Cats. Now just looking at this clear-cut play field, it looks like a brand new machine. And it just a single ball player There no multiball in that one Now let talk about this Oh yes Oh yes Talk about lethal weapon Damn it Greg Here your lethal weapon man What do you love about this game You love everything about it. How about this? What do you hate about this game? When I first got it, I hated it. I couldn't play the darn thing. I had nothing but trouble with it. Really? Yes. Is this that typical Data East that you've got to tinker and tinker and tinker? It was in horrible shape when I got it. The electronics were messed up on it. and I was having all sorts of issues with it. It has a new display in it now, new connectors. There's a lot of work that had to be done. This is a pretty lethal weapon, man. Pretty lethal weapon. Any shots or anything in particular, rule set or anything, that you just don't like very much on it? Yes. I think the thing I don't like about it the most is the video mode. They show you the bad guys with a gun, and, of course, you're supposed to shoot them, and then they show you a 1980s-looking woman with the hair, and they show you a business guy. And then David East decides to taunt you and have a guy holding a flower. It drives me nuts, and that guy gets it every time. I don't like about it. I love it. That's very cool. Let's go to the next round of games. All right, guys, another set of rows here at Mike's house of pinball machines. So you guys, we've seen World Cup soccer. You guys have seen the hell out of Twilight Zone. I love it, and if I talk about it, I'll want to take it up with me. I couldn't move it, though, so you don't have to worry about it. We're in a basement. It's not going up so easy. So let's talk about Black Rose. This is a game that has been on my pin-side wish list, and I'd love to have this game. They're pretty simple. There's not a lot to them. Tell us what you like about this game. The variety of shots, and one thing that's missing in a lot of games now, I think, is the ramps that kick up, and you either go below them or, in this case, go underneath the play field. Davy Jones' locker, of course. It makes sense. It loads the cannon. But it's fun if you hit enough loops repetitively, that ramp will flip up and it qualifies you for the sink the ship shot shooting the broadside. Now, a lot of people will complain that this should be a System 11 game. It shouldn't be a D&D. It's too basic. Do you find the rule set to be rather basic? I find there are plenty to do. In terms of the broadside shot, there's many modes that you can get off of it. that I just don't know a system will have and would quite be able to pull off. And on top of it, the video modes. They're quite varied. Some people don't quite get them, or they get easy once you know how to play them. But there's enough variation in this game to keep you on your toes. Boy, I love it. How long you had this game? I've had this game for about a year. My friend moved up to Seattle, and this is one that we kind of chipped in together on, and so I just bought out what was left on it. I just think this is great. Let's move down to Mousing Around. Whenever I first came over, you were telling me that this is a game that you really do enjoy a lot. Very much. This is probably my favorite System 11, and I put this right up next to Lethal Weapon in terms of being fun. There's plenty of flow to this game. It plays pretty darn fast. You've got an orbit on the left that you can try to keep hitting to increase your score. It's just the cartoony and zany funding. Oh my gosh, this would look awesome right next to your bad cat Yeah I think that might have to be the other that are all the ballyheads that you got together very well with the Elvira and The different things that would look pretty cool together, but the the locking mechanisms on this are very unique, too It's all theme these little cheese pieces come right up and the pinball hits it and down below The hell that goes and you hear the fat slobby and gotcha, you know, it's just It's just a great zany pinball name. To me, this is what pinball is. This is what pinball is. Let's go see some more machines, guys. How about that? Alright, guys. The last row of pinball machines. Unfortunately. No. This has been a treat, man. We really appreciate you letting us come out here. But before we leave, we've got to touch on a couple more machines. So, we've talked about Star Trek. Everybody knows about Star Trek. But not a lot of people have dabbled into the Data East Star Trek. Yes. Tell me a little bit about what you like about this game? Maybe when you got it, what's unique about this game? Alright. Me and my friends did a swap for this game. I actually got Swords of Fury and he bought this. Lion Man. And he was not feeling this game at all. He really did not like it. And I was not liking Swords of Fury at all. So we actually switched and we both thought we got the better of each other. So that's how you get a good trade. Oh yes, very much so. You're like, I got that damn Lion Man out and I got Spock in. Pretty much, yes. Is there anything in particular that you really like about this game? Any shot or you think damn, I can't ever get rid of this thing? I think the theme itself is what really sells it. The chase lights. I'll start the game really quick so you can see the chase lights. I actually switched them over to LEDs. Very cool. When you shoot the ramps, the chase, the whole rope actually flashes. And then, again, the theatrics with the game. When he tells you to transport, the chase lights actually reverse and kind of bring your focus to the transporter. So again, it's all about theatrics on this game. Again, the start of the multiball is fun. It's a little bit different than your lock your three balls and you're in business. State of East never really did much of the locking three balls as much. You had to qualify for the multiball and out they would start going. In this game, you had to collect the dilithium crystals. I like the center moving target. Oh, yeah. The swing target's a lot of fun. That's really cool. That's really cool. Let's move on to Star Wars, what they hope that Stern reproduces in other Star Wars. But for now, rumor has it, it's probably the best one. I would say without a doubt, it's the best one. You've got, I mean, you've got R2-D2. What more do you want? And he hops up and down. It's so cool. Hops up and down. Oh, yeah. He got the Death Star. Now, this one has the updated ROMs in it to where Data East would make it a little bit easier for the casual player where it would continue to qualify you for multiball. Yeah, Jurassic Park was like that. You got it. By the time you got to the third ball, all you had to do was hit one particular shot, and you were good to go for the multiball. This new ROM changes that altogether. You legitimately have to keep shooting the Death Star and get every single insert lint before you qualify for the multiball. So it makes the payoffs a lot better whenever you're playing this game. It doesn't get boring. No, it makes it a much much more difficult game. A lot of people in their home collections appreciate that. I like that shot right through the pops. It's a tough, but it's still achievable, but it's still tough. Greg, now he thinks that this is one of the, I was busting his chops a little bit, he thinks this is one of the most beautiful artwork on a back glass trans light in pinball. And I thought, damn, man, it's Data East. Are you brave enough to say Data East? But he really loves it, and I can see why. It's really, really well done. Yes. It came a long way from Torpedo Alley with the... Another fun game, though. It is fun. It's out there, but, oh, boy, those sailors with those tights. Let me tell you. I don't want that in my face. I don't want them defending me if we go to war. So do you think you'll be in on a new Star Wars? Are you a big fan of Star Wars? I do enjoy Star Wars quite a bit, but honestly, I think I'll probably stay put with this one just because I do enjoy the game. I'm not seeing a whole bunch of Sterns down here in New Game. No, not quite so much. That's why I really wanted to get Mike on here because his collection is so unique. It's awesome, and we're going to end on the best note possible. Let's talk about Central Park here. Tell us the story behind this. This is the game that started it all. So my late grandparents actually had this in their basement. This one? Yes, this is in my grandparents' house. And then when they had to move out of their house, and they've since passed, this one went in my basement. One great story we had was the rubbers were broken, a lot of the light bulbs were burnt out on it, and me and my grandpa, we took a trip up to the local pinball warehouse. They're not around anymore. And we rebuilt it and got it cleaned up and working a lot better. Now, one kind of thing I'm almost embarrassed to say is, well, we didn't know what we were doing. We had to use a screwdriver to break the lock to get it open. That's awesome. We didn't know how a lockdown bar worked. So we got the darn lockdown bar, we got the door closed, and we couldn't get this thing to close. So unfortunately, we took the little nuts on the bottom of the lockdown bar and took those off. And he actually drilled the sides and we drilled the lock down bar from the sides. And yep, it's still there. Yes, it is still there. That's a memory. Oh, yeah. Very much so. Oh, yeah. It was easy, you know, just to get it off. You wouldn't remember that. But you remember Grandpa with this? Oh, my gosh. Wow. And one thing we've always known is the monkey has been broken for, it's always been broken ever since I've been around. And I finally ordered one and yeah, the monkey will be being repaired. The classic arcade? No, Steve Young, Pinball Resource, I believe, makes these. How about that? I was going to say, good luck finding that. Here you go. You've got one. We've got the monkey back. Yeah, the tape never really worked on that. We tried it a few times from way back when. I love that you have this down here. It's on the end here. It's kind of your show. Hey, look at this. This is what got me into pinball. This is why I love it. And now look at what you've got. Oh, yes. I've got him to thank for it. Well, Mike, I appreciate the time, man. It's been spectacular. We missed some of the games because we'd be here all night long, which I wouldn't mind. But for the sake of him, I feel bad. I've got to get my ass out of here and get back to editing this actual video. So maybe we'll come back sometime and go over the ones that we did miss out on. The invitation's always going to be here for you. Well, yeah, man. Well, straight down the middle, this is Zach. This is Mike in St. Louis. Thanks again, guys. I tried to cradle you with my flipper It was all in vain It was all in vain Baby, baby, baby Peckers and pickles Peckers and pickles Pecker, is that what it is? I don't know Is it what? Is that what you do to No, I don't know Peckers and pickles No rapper, god damn it Peckers and pickles That's our new show James Piekarz and Pickles James Piekarz and Pickles here we are on Food Network James Piekarz and Pickles

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