# #17 - Mixed Stern Pinball Infinity Quest Reveal Feelings, The Sequel **Source:** A Pinball Podcast **Type:** podcast_episode **Published:** 2020-09-15 **Duration:** 33m 4s **Beat:** Pinball **URL:** https://apinballpodcast.podbean.com/e/17-mixed-stern-pinball-infinity-quest-reveal-feelings-the-sequel/ --- ## Analysis The host discusses the overwhelmingly positive reception to his previous episode criticizing Stern Pinball's Avengers: Infinity Quest reveal event. He argues that product reveals are hero content designed to reach broader audiences, but Stern's approach caters only to hardcore pinball fans, missing growth opportunities. Using marketing strategy frameworks (the 3H model: Hero, Hub, Hygiene), he contends that competitors could leapfrog Stern in marketing effectiveness by executing professional reveals, fundamentally reshaping the competitive landscape. ### Key Claims - [HIGH] Out of 150-200+ messages received, only 2 people disagreed with his Infinity Quest reveal criticism — _Host directly reporting his own communication volume and response distribution_ - [HIGH] Product reveals should be treated as hero content designed to reach the broadest possible audience, not just core fans — _Host explaining YouTube's 3H marketing strategy and applying it directly to pinball industry reveals_ - [MEDIUM] A dealer lost six premium orders ($40,000+ in revenue) immediately following the Infinity Quest reveal — _Host reporting conversation with a dealer/distributor; specific financial impact cited but dealer not named_ - [MEDIUM] Stern's reveal was designed for pinball-only audiences, not to reach broader consumer bases — _Host's interpretation of reveal messaging and intent; acknowledged as opinion/assumption_ - [MEDIUM] Pinball machines cost nearly $1 million and take a year to develop — _Host citing an article he read; attributes quote to unknown source in Deep Root's messaging_ - [MEDIUM] The first company to execute professional reveals reaching broader audiences could theoretically leapfrog Stern's marketing effectiveness within 1-2 months — _Host's opinion on competitive dynamics; prediction based on marketing strategy framework_ - [MEDIUM] Jack Danger performed better as a reveal personality on Marvel's event than in Stern's Infinity Quest reveal — _Host's observation from partial viewing; subjective assessment of Danger's presentation style_ - [HIGH] Stern's greatest weakness is reaching new audiences with product reveals, despite strong marketing elsewhere — _Host positioning this as explicitly stated on Eclectic Gamers podcast previously_ ### Notable Quotes > "I firmly believe Stern Pinball can utilize Jack Danger, can utilize Deadflip, can utilize Keith Elwin, and can utilize Raymond Davidson better. I believe that can be done." > — **Host (Travis/Marv Loco)**, ~5:30 > _Core thesis: Stern has talented personnel but isn't leveraging them effectively in reveal strategy_ > "Product reveals just aren't a priority in their marketing. I think it's simple as that." > — **Host**, ~12:15 > _Central claim about Stern's strategic priorities; suggests intentional choice rather than incompetence_ > "One viral video away from being completely relevant to the conversation. Now, obviously they have to follow that up. You can't just rely on that, but the way that this works, they are, the niche is so small that one viral video automatically makes it to where that brand is more relevant to new people than what any other brand that's currently in the industry is." > — **Host**, ~24:30 > _Identifies vulnerability: smaller niche makes marketing execution disproportionately powerful for competitors_ > "You're either the gazelle or the lion. And if you do gazelle type things, somebody else will do lion type things. And you will give up ground to somebody." > — **Host**, ~48:00 > _Predicts Stern must respond or lose market position to more aggressive competitors_ > "The best way to really get these reveals out is you want to explain it like we're five. Keep it so simple because your diehards will still be there." > — **Host**, ~36:45 > _Actionable criticism: recommends simplifying reveal messaging for accessibility to non-enthusiasts_ > "I'm aware that companies are listening, and I appreciate it, guys. I appreciate it. Not a flex. I seriously do appreciate it." > — **Host**, ~29:00 > _Acknowledges manufacturer awareness of podcast content and influence on industry decision-making_ > "These pinball machines take nearly a year to develop, a million dollars. So why would you not make sure that opening night that everybody can see it? Like, why would you not want to make sure everybody sees it in the best light possible?" > — **Host**, ~44:15 > _Rhetorical argument for investment-level marketing execution parity with product development_ ### Entities | Name | Type | Context | |------|------|---------| | Stern Pinball | company | Primary subject of criticism for Avengers: Infinity Quest reveal execution; positioned as market leader but vulnerable in marketing strategy | | Avengers: Infinity Quest | game | Stern Pinball release whose reveal event is the central focus of entire episode; criticized for poor marketing reach and execution | | Jack Danger | person | Stern Pinball designer; host argues he could be better utilized in reveal events based on his performance at Marvel's reveal | | Keith Elwin | person | Pinball designer; mentioned as underutilized talent resource for Stern's marketing and reveal strategy | | Raymond Davidson | person | Pinball designer/programmer; mentioned as underutilized talent resource for Stern's marketing | | Deadflip | organization | Content platform/stream; host suggests Stern could better leverage it for product reveals | | Deep Root Pinball | company | Competitor positioned as potentially able to execute better reveals; host notes they 'poked the bear' at Stern; awaiting first product release | | Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Competitor mentioned as example of company that could potentially outmaneuver Stern through superior reveal marketing | | American Pinball | company | Competitor mentioned as example of company that could potentially outmaneuver Stern through superior reveal marketing | | Spooky Pinball | company | Competitor; host questions why they haven't released new product beyond Rick and Morty | | Zach Minney | person | Flippin' Out Pinball owner; announced giveaway on previous podcast episode; helped distribute glass cover winners | | YouTube | company | Platform credited with developing 3H marketing strategy framework (Hero, Hub, Hygiene) in 2013-2014 | | Christopher Doyle | person | Winner of Stern glass cover giveaway from previous podcast | | Jay Sellers | person | Winner of Stern glass cover giveaway from previous podcast | | Robert (Deep Root) | person | Deep Root leadership; host describes their marketing approach as 'boastful' compared to Stern's laid-back style | | Blockbuster | company | Historical example of company that failed to evolve marketing/business model; missed Netflix acquisition opportunity | | Netflix | company | Historical example; offered to Blockbuster at one point; represents evolution Blockbuster rejected | | Toys R Us | company | Historical example; failed to develop online sales, outsourced to Amazon, company defunct | | Amazon | company | Benefited from Toys R Us outsourcing online sales early in company history | | Dollar Shave Club | company | Marketing case study: $4,500 viral video in 2012-2013 led to billion-dollar acquisition; illustrates power of single compelling reveal content | ### Topics - **Primary:** Product reveal marketing strategy and execution, Stern Pinball's marketing weaknesses vs. competitive vulnerabilities, 3H marketing framework (Hero, Hub, Hygiene content) applied to pinball, Reaching broader audiences beyond core pinball enthusiasts - **Secondary:** Impact of poor reveal marketing on dealer/distributor revenue, Personnel utilization (Jack Danger, Keith Elwin, Raymond Davidson), Competitive threats from Deep Root, Jersey Jack, American Pinball, Spooky - **Mentioned:** Community reception and messaging around criticism ### Sentiment **Mixed** (0.35) — Host is respectful toward Stern and acknowledges their market dominance, but fundamentally critical of reveal strategy execution. Empathetic to dealer impacts. Optimistic about future competitive dynamics and industry evolution. Some frustration evident regarding underutilized talent and missed growth opportunities, but framed constructively rather than dismissively. ### Signals - **[business_signal]** Dealer reported losing six premium orders ($40,000+ revenue) immediately after Infinity Quest reveal; inventory management burden of unsold stock (confidence: medium) — Host citing confidential conversation with dealer/distributor who noted direct financial impact; concern about stuck inventory and resale costs - **[business_signal]** Stern's dominant market position and brand recognition mean poor reveal marketing doesn't immediately threaten core sales (LEs will sell out regardless), but creates long-term vulnerability if competitors execute better Hub/Hero content strategy (confidence: medium) — Host notes 'LEs will sell out no matter what' due to brand power, but Premium and Pro tiers are vulnerable to dealer/distributor impact; analogy to Blockbuster/Toys R Us market failures - **[community_signal]** Overwhelming community response to host's criticism (150-200+ messages, ~98% agreement) indicates latent dissatisfaction with Stern's reveal approach across dealer, casual, and non-pinball audiences (confidence: high) — Host reports phone calls, texts, Facebook messages, emails, YouTube comments from dealers, fans, tournament players, and non-pinball people expressing agreement with concerns - **[competitive_signal]** Stern's weak point in product reveal marketing creates immediate vulnerability for competitors to leapfrog with professional execution; single viral video could significantly shift market perception (confidence: medium) — Host argues first company executing professional reveals reaching broader audiences could theoretically become 'second best' at reveals within 1-2 months; Dollar Shave Club case study of $4.5K video going viral leading to $1B acquisition - **[design_philosophy]** Host advocates for simplifying reveal messaging to 'explain it like we're five' and using repeated brand identity reinforcement (logos, stingers) to reach non-enthusiasts without alienating core fans (confidence: high) — Host provides specific recommendations for reveal structure: transitional stingers with Stern Pinball branding every few minutes; simplified language; educational framing of features - **[market_signal]** Host positions Deep Root as aggressive/boastful alternative to Stern's laid-back approach; suggests Deep Root 'poked the bear' with development cost messaging (confidence: medium) — Host notes Deep Root article citing ~$1M development cost and year timeframe; framing as competitive challenge to Stern's marketing narrative - **[market_signal]** Host and community consensus that Stern's Infinity Quest reveal failed to reach broader non-enthusiast audiences; reveal designed exclusively for core pinball fans (confidence: high) — Host reports 150-200+ messages with ~98% agreement; multiple non-pinball people contacted him about confusion; reveal used pinball-specific jargon without broader context - **[personnel_signal]** Jack Danger reportedly performed better as reveal personality on Marvel event than on Stern's Infinity Quest; suggests talent underutilization in current strategy (confidence: medium) — Host observed improvement in Danger's presentation style, communication, and hint-delivery on Marvel reveal vs. Stern reveal; attributed to focus and structure differences - **[announcement]** Host planning to introduce live show format for podcast on Wednesday evenings around 8-9pm (confidence: high) — Host states: 'I'm also going to introduce a live show pretty soon. I'm looking at doing that on Wednesday evenings around 8 or 9 p.' - **[sentiment_shift]** Potential recognition by Stern (and other manufacturers) that product reveal strategy may require evolution; host believes companies are listening to community feedback (confidence: medium) — Host explicitly states 'companies are listening' and notes he's heard from various industry figures; suggests receptivity to criticism may drive future marketing changes --- ## Transcript Welcome back everybody to another episode of A Pinball Podcast. I appreciate you guys being here. Thank you guys so much for listening and let's get right to it. So I am trying to get over a cold still a little bit, but I have my vocals as warmed up as they can possibly get. So if I sniffle or have a random cough or something like that, I apologize ahead of time. And also we got to get this out of the way. Zach Minney about two weeks ago announced a giveaway on the podcast that we did together and I do have the two winners here finally for the Stern glass covers so those winners are Christopher Doyle and Jay Sellers so congratulations fellas what you need to do is contact Zach at FlippinOutPenball.com and he'll get you hooked up with all the details so again congratulations enjoy your penball machines being dust free as long as you remember to put your covers on there So moving on. Yeah, so not much has happened, right? The past 48 to 78 or 100 hours or whatever it could be. So as of right now, it is Saturday, September 12th. And it's been an interesting past few days for sure. Obviously, I did a podcast just the other day talking about my mixed feelings on the reveal for Avengers Infinity Quest. And needless to say, I was absolutely floored by the amount of response that I got from that. And I'm not even joking, if I combine up phone calls, text messages, Facebook messages, emails, direct comments on the YouTube video itself, I had well in excess of 150, possibly even over 200. It got crazy there for a little while. And honestly, it was, I was wondering how many people would agree with the assessment because I was very upfront that these are just my thoughts and doesn't make them right. And I still believe it doesn't necessarily make it right. It's just what I think would work best. And it turns out about 90, I mean, the vast majority, it's, I maybe had two people out of all those messages disagree, not even joking. And it just, I was overwhelmed by it. And, you know, I would like to be upfront and touch base a little bit. Like the one thing that I want to be crystal clear with everybody is any criticism that I give, it is said with the utmost respect. And I also want to be clear that the criticism that I'm giving is exclusively about Stern and how they're doing their reveal event, right? I never want to go and talk about somebody else's personal content and bag on that. Like, that's why I'm not all about, if this was a dead flip stream and that's all it was, I have absolutely no place that it'd make me the biggest a-hole in the world to just talk about that. Cause that's his content. And I totally respect that. I think he does a lot of great things for pinball. And it doesn't mean that I agree with all of it, you know, and the way that I am is I like hearing different points of view. If you notice, if you're listening to this on audio and you haven't seen my YouTube channel, if you go to my YouTube channel at Marv Loco, you'll see, I try to reply to every single message and I try to heart every message that I can. The reason why I do that isn't because I agree with what somebody is saying in there. I heart it because I'm acknowledging that I'm listening and I'm actively thinking about what you're saying. And that's the way I operate. I want to hear what people have to say. And I don't want to dismiss what people are thinking or what they feel. I always have empathy for that. So to be upfront, all my criticisms are specifically about the Stern reveal and anybody that has to do with that reveal. That's where I'm at on it. So if somebody can't separate that, I do apologize. But that's where I'm at, and I won't change. I will not change that about it. Because the same way with my content, if somebody criticizes it, I take it all in. I honestly, I am one of the few people probably in this world that is not affected by criticism. And I say that as like the biggest humble brag in the world, but you guys got to understand. I grew up with a Native American father that was hardcore about sports and discipline. And I heard it all the time. And I grew such thick skin. But I also learned to be very empathetic. And I learned to really take in what somebody says and think about it in a way that helps me. And that's the way that I operate personally. That's just me. Everybody else operates a different way. And they're free to do that. But again, just to be clear, this is all about Stern's Reveal. And obviously, a lot of other people have talked about it, whether it's online, whether it's people that have talked to me directly. I'm sure by the time this gets out, and I plan on putting this out either Monday or maybe even Tuesday, which is the 14th or the 15th, I'm sure other people will have different opinions on it, possibly, good or bad. I mean, that's the way these things go. A reveal event, especially when you're putting out a product, it's going to have people's attention. And it's going to get attention in which we're either going to be accepting of it or we're not. Or there might be some people that are just like, eh, about it. You know, that's all part of it. But I do, I firmly believe, I am in the camp that I believe Stern Pinball can utilize Jack Danger, can utilize Deadflip, can utilize Keith Elwin, and can utilize Raymond Davidson better. I believe that can be done. I firmly do. All the elements are there, and I talked about this too during the live stream of Marvel's event where Jack was actually on there, and I thought he did a great job. I was telling everybody on the live chat, I thought he was doing so much better right here. I like this version of it. now was it perfect no nothing's perfect but i like this version that he's the way he's explaining things the way he's given hints and tips like those things work to me that works that's where a personality can really shine through when you're focused on those things now i didn't get to catch the whole thing because i was busy talking but the parts i did catch i like that you know i that's just how it was now moving forward i think it's important to really understand why the reveals are happening the way that they happen, right? And we need to be really clear and upfront that I believe that the way that Stern does their marketing overall is really outstanding. There's a reason why they're the number one company in the world. Now, there's obviously going to be various reasons, but let's face facts. They do a bunch of press releases, right? They have a circuit tournament, the Stern Pro Circuit, that gets attention. They have launch events, which gets attention. They have the insider access stuff and they have their whole stern army. Like they have things put together. John Youssi things go out on Facebook at times. I'm sure their Instagram account is fairly active. I'm not active on Instagram hardly, so I couldn't really tell you, but you know, there's different ways that they do really well on their marketing. And what I think that this product reveal really tells is that product reveals just aren't a priority in their marketing. I think it's simple as that because I don't believe for a second that the people that are in charge of making sure that they are marketing and getting this pinball machine to different audiences. I don believe for a second that these people are dumb I think they all highly intelligent Therefore the conclusion I really have to draw after looking at the whole scope I just don think a product reveal is their priority Now, for me, that's really interesting. I find it very fascinating that that seems to be the case. And again, I'm making an assumption. I haven't heard from them. I haven't. I heard from all kinds of people. I heard from dealers. I heard from fans. I heard from tournament players. heard from non-pinball people, like legitimately people had never even bought a machine before and only played maybe once or twice were contacting me like this. People are aware of this product, you know, and so it's a, it's really, it's a unique time, but I find this really fascinating because this is a, this is the one thing, right? Stern dominates on a lot of fronts. They dominate with themes, which will sell. They dominate with their production velocity, which means that they are getting products out to customers quickly, right? So they can stay relevant very much easier than any other company. They can totally stay relevant. But what I find very fascinating about it is that when you take those things into consideration, a new company won't be able to beat them on that home front or on that front immediately. They just won't. That takes years to catch up, years. But the one thing that these companies can catch up on immediately is how they do their marketing online and how they connect with their customers online. How do they do reveal events online? And it's 2020, guys, it's 2020. I had a couple of people questioning me in private chats and we were talking back and forth. they're like, you know, Travis, do you really think it's that big a deal and online reveal this and that, you know, I mean, do people really care? And I'm like, you're talking to me online right now. Like that's where a lot of the ecosystem of consumers are. So yes, it is very important. And legitimately, I truly believe that either Deep Root, American Pinball, Jersey Jack, any of them that are putting out pinball machines that, and yeah, of course, Deep Root hasn't done it yet, but they're supposed to pretty soon. But anybody that's put out a pinball machine, they are legitimately one viral video away from being completely relevant to the conversation. Now, obviously they have to follow that up. You can't just rely on that, but the way that this works, they are, the niche is so small that one viral video automatically makes it to where that brand is more relevant to new people than what any other brand that's currently in the industry is. I mean, that's just a fact. A prime example of this is the Dollar Shave Club. Prime example. If you haven't heard of Dollar Shave Club, legitimately, it was around 2012 12 or 13. I forget. It was early, right around there. They did a video, right? That only cost $4,500 and it went like bonkers viral. And this is just about selling blades for a dollar that comes to your home. And this all originated from being worth like 250,000 units or something like that from China that they had to figure out a way to sell. And they became instantly relevant to the conversation against all the big dogs. And that whole company within five years or so ends up selling for a billion dollars. All that over a 90 second spot. That's how powerful this is. Now, that's not to say all these other companies are going to all of a sudden do that. No, it's not exact science, but that's to give you an idea. There's different ceilings to this. You know, obviously the consumer base for razors is much higher than the consumer base for pinball. But we might have put an artificial ceiling what we think the consumer is. And that's why I've always preached. You have to go beyond that. You have to go beyond that. And I think that that's that's a great example. So I'll link that down below for the people that haven't seen it yet. But it's you'll see once you watch it, you kind of realize right now or you'll realize immediately how they were able to talk to their target audience. audience so efficiently. And, you know, I'm not even going to go over the reveal again. I mean, I'm sure at this point it's been beat to death. I just, I know that these things can be better. And I know that some people may not think it matters. I'm here to say it does matter. And, you know, here's why it matters. Stern is going to be able to put out their machines regardless, right? They've done a great job. They've earned that. They've earned that. They've earned being able to do the things that they do. And it doesn't necessarily have to be perfect because even if it's not perfect, it won't hurt them. It won't. There's nobody challenging them yet. And I said that in the last podcast, and there has to be somebody to actually enter the arena of the challenge. Now there is that vulnerability where somebody could challenge, but it does hurt the people down the supply chain. It does hurt the dealers. Let's not kid ourselves right now. Even if we think, we say, oh, well, there won't be, they won't lose. The LEs, they will sell out. Let's just be upfront. LEs will sell out no matter what. My kid could go on there and he would sell 500 L1 LEs. That's just the star power he has with the community overall. That just will happen. But now if we're talking about the premiums and the pros, I had a talk with several different dealers and distributors. And, you know, they were talking to me back and forth about, you know, how things kind of go, how they wish things would be. And, you know, without going into too much detail, there was one in particular. And this, I'm not even going to get emotional about it, but it struck a chord with me because I've had to go through business before. There's a reason why I'm able to have these pinball machines. It's a lot of endless nights, a lot of not having sleep and making decisions day by day to try to make the income, to keep the lights on, to try to achieve a certain level of success. And I don't doubt in my mind for a second that these dealers and these distributors are doing the same thing. And one in particular, they noted to me, they said it hit them hard. They lost six premium orders just in that day. That's over $40,000 in revenue gone instantly. Right. And that's still product that they have because they've, they have, I mean, if you've already got the product or you're planning on getting the product, I didn't ask him, how does your whole thing work? Because I quite frankly don't know, but thinking about it, how I used to have to do it. if I don't sell a product, I've still had to spend wholesale on that because I'm not drop shipping. I still have my allotment that I had to get from these major manufacturers. And if I don't sell, guess what? I'm with stuck inventory. It's dead inventory. And that sucks. That sucks so bad because now I have to take the time and spend more money on resources trying to get this sold to somebody. Like, John Youssi what I mean? So it's not so much of like, well, it doesn't matter. It does matter. For the person that's counting on this, it matters to them. And I know that feeling. Like if I sound like I'm getting a little fired up or if I sound like I'm getting too emotionally invested in this, it's just because I've been there before. I have been there before, and I know what it's like to be in that spot, and it sucks. Plain and simple, it sucks. But I digress. Just moving forward, I think things will change. I really do. Sorry I need some green tea I getting My mouth is getting dry already but I think things will change They got to I fully believe that other companies see this I fully believe that they are listening to consumers, you know, and I think it'll change. Now, if people are still wondering, well, why is this such a big deal? I will kind of explain it out to you a little bit more in terms of how your content marketing strategy goes, especially for online. And this will all make sense, hopefully. Hopefully I can explain this as easily as possible. So if you're into nerdy stuff with marketing and how this affects pinball and how this will definitely change the landscape in the next three to five years, keep listening. You're about to hear it right here. I don't think anybody else has ever talked about this in pinball at all. I've never heard this anywhere else. If they have, congratulations, because you're on the right track. How this works, all right, and YouTube developed this back in, I believe, either 2013 or 2014. And they developed this for a reason. Obviously, it was mostly, it wasn't just out of the kindness of their heart. They wanted people to use their platform. But this ended up being really important, even to today, all right? It's called the 3H strategy or Triple H strategy, all right? It stands for Hero Hub Hygiene. Those are the three H's. And basically, we'll start from the bottom. So what hygiene is, is that's essentially just content that is designed for your core group, your core audience, your diehards. Those are the people that are always going to show up for your brand. They are, like if we take Stern, for instance, they are the global lifestyle brand. That is them. and in order to do your hygiene content, you're going to put out like daily or weekly things. It could be just a variety of different types of content, but it's there to basically educate your consumer, educate your core group, educate your hardcore people, you know, educate the person that does buy every single LE or the arcade that buys every single pro that comes out. That's kind of who this is designed for, all right? And then next in line, you got your hub. So this is like regular scheduled content. It's basically monthly. You are designing this for your prime prospect. And what a prime prospect is, is that's essentially somebody that fits the criteria of who you're trying to sell to. All right. They fit the demographic. They fit everything. You just haven't quite sold them yet. You might have done it once or twice, but they're not quite loyal. So to put this in pinball terms, they might be that one person that will buy a Stern pinball machine when the theme really talks to them. And they still might get a Jersey Jack pin or an American pinball or something like that. They're on the fence. They're the ones that will hear that Avengers is coming out, and they will still wait and see what the other companies bring out. All right? That's kind of what your hub content people are. And when you're pushing out regular scheduled content with that, I would consider something to be, if I had to think about it off cuff with pinball, probably like code updates or maybe the making of a machine or maybe even behind the scenes, like something that you're documenting. It's something that you could put on your content, whether it's on YouTube or anywhere else, to where people that might not have bought that pinball machine, like take Stranger Things, for instance, might not have bought that, but you might watch the behind-the-scenes stuff on it. So that's a potential customer right there. It's still interesting in your content, and you're still giving them information that might answer questions that they might have. And you're essentially just reinforcing your brand, like reinforcing your brand to your community is what's happening. And there's other ways that I'm sure even outside of the ecosystem of online that this can be done. But we're just talking strictly just online ecosystem right now. And that's where it's so important, especially in the in the timeline of COVID and the timeline where everybody's practically online and has Internet. This is important. So your next one in line is your biggest one. That is your hero content. Your hero content is designed to be the tentpole event. Like it's the huge, the culmination of everything, right? And to me, this, well, let's put it this way too. When you're reaching the culmination, you're also trying to take whatever you're doing and reach the broadest audience possible, right? You're trying to build an extreme amount of brand awareness. And one of the things that falls under that is a product reveal. Not like full stop, full stop. A product reveal is definitely hero event type stuff or hero content type stuff. And this essentially is quarterly. It could be once a year, twice a year, whatever. It's not often, all right? Right. Handball machine releases, even though Stern is doing them at a tremendous clip, they're not necessarily often. If you take anybody else, of course, it's a year, two years around that time. Even Stern might be maybe what, three, four. Even if we say five, that's still a couple of months in between. All right. So this is a way that you can definitely reach the most broad audience possible. And that's why it all comes back around that when we take these three H's into consideration, how do we now feel watching the initial reveal? What does that seem like that falls under? Does that fall under hero content? I don't think it does. I don't think that nothing about that video screamed to me or said to me, hey, this is trying to reach a broader audience. Everything about that said we are catering to the pinball only crowd, to the stern pinball fans. That's what that said to me. And I would 100% put the house on it that that was probably their intention, you know, which is fine. The problem is, is that if that's how non-pinball people are going to see that, right, non-pinball people are still going to view it. And they did because I talked to a lot of them that did. and they're going to be very confused by that message because they don't understand the pinball lingo they don't if they're brand like it'd be like me if i watched something to do with i don't know knitting or anything or anything to do with cars i'm terrible with cars if i saw the release of a brand new car and i tried to see all i would have no idea what they're talking about when they say torque they say horsepower i don't know i kind of know but i don't know enough for it to be relevant to me to where I'm like, okay, that's exciting. And this is much of the same way. And so what I would encourage any companies that listen to this in the future, and I am aware that companies are listening, and I appreciate it, guys. I appreciate it. Not a flex. I seriously do appreciate it. I would say the best way to really get these reveals out is you want to explain it like we're five. Keep it so simple because your diehards will still be there. The diehards will still show up for the reveal. They'll still show up to support. But when you get other people that aren't familiar with your brand, you better have your brand logo on there. You need to remind people every few minutes, like, hey, this is the brand. This is what we're about. Here's what we're seeing here. I mean, it wouldn't take much to, in my head, if you're doing the reveal, and we already went over how the reveal event would be, but this is just very simplistic, where when you are explaining something, imagine like a transitional stinger to when you're going to the next thing that says Stern Pinball, like going across it. You know who the brand is. You're not confused at all. That automatically John Youssi it enough you understand it And that a big deal especially when you talking about reaching broader growth And I would say pretty much I fully fully expect other companies to really start doing this because you can't, and I said this on the Eclectic Gamers podcast a couple of months ago when we were talking about how reveals are and all that. And I think this all came back to fruition, that I think that this is Stern's weakest point on how they go about getting their pinball machines to new people, right? It might not necessarily affect how they do it. I mean, they'll still get better. They'll still grow because there is, there's a ton of dealers out there and there's a ton, they do their marketing great elsewhere. But when I'm thinking of growing to a broader audience and not fishing in the same pond over and over and over and over again, it will become an issue if another player enters the game or another player enters that pond and starts fishing in the same pond. That's when it will become an issue. So guess what you'll have to do? You'll have to find another damn pond. You've got to expand your growth. And that's kind of where I'm getting at here with this all. That any company that shows up, the first one, the first one that fully goes all in on deciding how they want people to see their brand and they treat these reveals like legit events because these pinball machines, they're not cheap. I imagine, I remember reading on an article and it's funny, the same article is what Deep Root put out to kind of poke the bear at Stern. Somebody, I forgot who said it in there exactly, But, you know, this these pinball machines take nearly a year to develop a million dollars. I mean, it it does. That's legitimately what it takes. So why would you not make sure that opening night that everybody can see it? Like, why would you not want to make sure everybody like you put that in the best light possible? Now, Granite Stern doesn't have to worry about that right now. As of right now, they don't. They have the name. but other people can immediately do that. Now all of a sudden Stern, theoretically overnight guys, theoretically by the time we're talking about this in a month or two months, Stern could be third best at doing reveals, which is crazy when you think about it, but that's the reality we're staring straight at right now. And so the first company that can do the reveal in such a way that they reach a broader audience that the new audience sees that, right? That's where they'll win. Like, sure, anybody else could say, you know, so-and-so loves this theme, so they're going to automatically buy it. So-and-so is already loyal to this brand, so they're going to buy it. Yeah, that's just two parts to this whole equation. You can't keep, you, okay, businesses that come into this sector cannot rely on just people just being fans of themes. They can't rely on just people being brand loyal from out of the gate. You have to create that. You have to curate that. And Stern has done a great job of doing that over the years. The problem is, right now, you still have to keep pushing. You have to keep pushing. And right now, I fully believe other companies will start pushing them, and I think we'll see Stern push back. I really do. I think we will see Stern begin to push back because if you are the big dog, you don't want to give, you're either the gazelle or the lion. And if you do gazelle type things, somebody else will do lion type things. And you will give up ground to somebody. And that ground might not matter today, but it will matter in the long run. It will matter because when we go back to the three H's, when you're doing your hub content, your prime prospects, right? That's great for short-term growth. First company that really focuses in on that, that really goes all in on that across the board wins. And then the next company or that same company does their hero stuff like it should be, they're going to win even more. I mean, that's just the way it is. We've seen this play out, you know, in other industries under other circumstances. I mean, look at what happened with Blockbuster, for instance. They messed up. You know, they had an offer to get Netflix at one point. Didn't take it. Felt like they didn't need to evolve. Felt like that they were fine where they were. Gone. Toys R Us, same thing. You know, they didn't want to necessarily sell online too much. They end up giving. They offloaded. all their online sales to a little company at that time that's known today as Amazon. Toys R Us doesn't exist. And just what I'm getting at here is none of these things are exact science. They're radically different industries, but you can still see some of the same principles play out. And that's what I'm fascinated about, about the pinball industry, is I'm very curious how this will play out. I'm very curious to see how these companies will do their marketing. Are they going to be boastful, kind of like what Robert does at Deep Root? Are they going to be super professional? Are they going to be like this chilled, laid-back vibe like Stern has gone for? And it's not to say all this is just wrong. I freely admit I could be wrong myself. Maybe I'm just not getting the message. Maybe I just don't respond to that content very well. And maybe other people do. That could be exactly what it is. But I'm very interested to see where this goes. I definitely still have lots of thoughts on this. And it just, like I said, excited just to see where it goes. And I think we will ultimately see people really start to bring this all together. And we'll just go from there. That's all I can say about it. And we'll just put it to bed at this point. This is going to be the last podcast I'll talk about it. and more power to everybody else. It gives us something to talk about at least. I'll give them that. And I am fully, fully excited to see what lies ahead with both Stern, with Jersey Jack, and with Deep Root, even American Pinball. And Spooky, if they can get something else out besides Rick and Morty, I'm wondering about that. Where are they at on all this? But it's so much. But anyways, I want to take the time to thank you guys so much for staying here, for listening, all the messages, criticisms, whatever it could be. I appreciate it. Thumbs up, thumbs down. You know, I just appreciate you guys listening. Like, I don't do this at all for thinking I'm going to be famous, thinking I need the attention. I do this because I genuinely enjoy making pinball content. I enjoy talking to people. I enjoy being friends with people. I enjoy just hearing from different people what the hobby is, what they enjoy about it. And I enjoy learning because I don't know everything at all. Like if I say something that's totally off base, I want to hear why I'm off base. Like I welcome that. I want to know. I want to learn. I think that that just makes the hobby all that much more fun. But other than that, guys, thank you so much for being here. Be sure and check out, if you're interested still in more podcast stuff, just check out my playlist that I got going on. You can go back and you can see all kinds of different things if you're on YouTube. And I'm also going to introduce a live show pretty soon. I'm looking at doing that on Wednesday evenings around 8 or 9 p.m. at night. I did a pop-up live show just randomly on yesterday, actually, just during the Marvel stream. So that was fun right there. It was, I mean, I just enjoyed it. I enjoyed getting able to talk to everybody about pinball. So anyhow, I'm dragging this on. Thank you guys so much for being here. I appreciate it. And I will talk to you guys later and see you guys on the next one. Later, guys. _(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_ --- *Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 0ed682c9-7a8a-4944-a847-0d58e3bfa7f9*