# #27 - The Jersey Jack Pinball Guns N' Roses Follow Up

**Source:** A Pinball Podcast  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2020-10-23  
**Duration:** 21m 13s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://apinballpodcast.podbean.com/e/27-the-jersey-jack-pinball-guns-n-roses-follow-up/

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## Analysis

The host discusses community reactions to his previous Guns N' Roses review, emphasizing that differing opinions on pinball machines are valid and shouldn't invalidate personal enjoyment. He acknowledges GNR's commercial success while maintaining it's not his game of the year, addresses reported playfield pulling issues, and criticizes Jersey Jack's apparent underestimation of demand despite heavy marketing. He also briefly mentions a wire form breakage issue on his Avengers machine.

### Key Claims

- [MEDIUM] Guns N' Roses sold out faster than Jersey Jack anticipated despite heavy coordinated marketing efforts across multiple platforms — _Host notes JJP's apparent surprise at demand being twice the available inventory, despite engaging professional marketing team, multiple podcast/streaming partners_
- [MEDIUM] Playfield pulling issues have been reported on Guns N' Roses machines — _Host acknowledges reports of playfield pulling but admits limited technical knowledge, suggests it's being discussed more extensively on other platforms_
- [MEDIUM] Some customers were confused about CE allocation and believed they had secured a Collector's Edition when they actually hadn't — _Host references 'debacle of people not even knowing if they were actually in for a CE when they thought they were'_
- [MEDIUM] Guns N' Roses will likely win game of the year despite host's personal opinion it isn't GOTY — _Host predicts GNR will win GOTY based on popularity, sales velocity, and marketing success despite personal reservations_
- [HIGH] Wire form on Avengers machine broke during normal play after 102 games — _Host describes specific mechanical failure: wire form that routes ball back to right inlane snapped at base during normal gameplay_

### Notable Quotes

> "I'm just an idiot with the mic with an opinion and I enjoy conversing with you guys even if somebody disagrees with me"
> — **Host**, ~5:30
> _Establishes host's philosophy of non-hierarchical opinion-sharing and openness to disagreement_

> "There will never, ever be a pinball machine that is 100% loved by everybody. There will never be a 10 out of 10 pinball machine."
> — **Host**, ~11:45
> _Core argument defending varied opinions as inevitable and valid in subjective medium_

> "It was almost like they did not anticipate their own success out of the gate. And I don't know how that happens because I'm not inside there."
> — **Host**, ~18:30
> _Criticism of Jersey Jack's apparent demand forecasting failure despite heavy marketing investment_

> "Guns N' Roses for sure, for sure, full stop, is a hit. For sure is a hit. Is it a hit that I would want to play all the time? No. Not at all."
> — **Host**, ~14:00
> _Distinguishes between commercial success and personal preference, core to his argument_

> "I would hate to see people that bought the collector's edition or any edition at that rate spend close to $13,000 all in and get a pin with playfield issues"
> — **Host**, ~20:15
> _Expresses concern about quality control on premium-priced machines experiencing manufacturing defects_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Manufacturer of Guns N' Roses pinball; subject of criticism for demand forecasting and reported playfield issues |
| Guns N' Roses | game | Jersey Jack licensed game that sold out quickly; host's previous review prompted this episode's discussion of community backlash |
| Stern Pinball | company | Referenced as manufacturing giant with superior demand forecasting and marketing capabilities compared to other manufacturers |
| Star Wars | game | Stern game sitting behind host; example of critically panned game the host personally enjoys despite widespread criticism |
| Avengers | game | Stern game experiencing wire form mechanical failure after 102 plays; subject of upcoming host review and ongoing durability testing series |
| Zach | person | Flippin' Out Pinball distributor/sponsor; praised for rapid response to host's mechanical issue on Avengers |
| Straight Down The Middle | organization | Pinball podcast/streaming content provider used by Jersey Jack for GNR marketing and gameplay streaming |
| Buffalo | person | Referenced as involved in gameplay streaming for GNR marketing (insufficient context for full entity definition) |
| Super Awesome Pinball Show | organization | Podcast used by Jersey Jack for designer appearance/marketing content during GNR launch |
| Flippin' Out Pinball | organization | Pinball distributor and podcast sponsor; provides customer service support for machine issues |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Subjectivity and validity of differing pinball opinions, Guns N' Roses commercial success vs. critical reception, Jersey Jack demand forecasting and supply chain management, Reported Guns N' Roses playfield pulling issues
- **Secondary:** Avengers wire form mechanical failure, Collector's Edition pricing and access confusion, Pinball industry manufacturing and marketing coordination
- **Mentioned:** Community discourse and review impact on purchasing decisions

### Sentiment

**Mixed** (0.55) — Host maintains respect for all opinions while expressing frustration with Jersey Jack's execution, qualified praise for GNR's commercial success, and concern about quality control on premium-priced machines. Tone is balanced but contains underlying disappointment about industry-wide issues.

### Signals

- **[business_signal]** Jersey Jack apparently underestimated GNR demand despite heavy marketing investment; demand reportedly twice available inventory (confidence: medium) — Host notes 'it was almost like they did not anticipate their own success out of the gate' and references demand being twice available supply
- **[event_signal]** Host implementing durability testing series tracking Avengers playfield condition at 100, 250, 500, 1000 play milestones (confidence: high) — Host describes new series showing 'what the play field, what everything looks like after a certain amount of plays' to 'show the life of a pinball machine that is played hard'
- **[community_signal]** Flippin' Out Pinball distributor provides rapid customer service response to mechanical issues (sub-60 second response time documented) (confidence: high) — Host praises Zach for responding 'in less than a minute' to wire form breakage issue with immediate service engagement
- **[market_signal]** Collector's Edition pricing and demand reflect market willingness to pay $13k+ for premium pinball machines (confidence: medium) — Host references CE pricing at 'close to $13,000 all in' with third-party markups potentially higher
- **[personnel_signal]** Jersey Jack engaged external professional marketing team for GNR launch including multiple podcast/streaming partners (confidence: high) — Host describes 'full-prong attack' with 'professional team' utilizing Straight Down The Middle, Buffalo, and Super Awesome Pinball Show for coordinated marketing
- **[product_concern]** Avengers machine experienced wire form breakage after 102 plays during normal gameplay (confidence: high) — Host describes wire form leading to right inlane snapping at base after ball routing through mystery vertical up kicker at game 102
- **[product_concern]** Playfield pulling reported on Guns N' Roses machines post-launch; host expresses alarm about quality control on $13k+ machines (confidence: medium) — Host acknowledges 'some reports of play field pulling' and emphasizes concern that machines costing near $13,000 should be 'as close to perfect as possible out of box'
- **[sentiment_shift]** Mixed community reaction to GNR: Jersey Jack fans upset about B-minus rating while Stern fans felt host wasn't critical enough (confidence: high) — Host received emails from both Jersey Jack fans upset about B-minus grade and Stern fans wanting more criticism

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## Transcript

 All right, welcome back, everybody, to another episode of a pinball podcast. Thank you guys so much for... Why are you laughing over there? Why are you smiling? Don't... I told you. This is more important. My wife is over there trying to work right now. She's doing her work that makes money, and she's interrupting my podcast. Serious stuff, Monica. Podcast more important than career. You know this. Okay. Anyways, welcome back everybody. Thank you guys for being here. I really do appreciate it. She's still laughing. I'm going to ignore her. It is Friday. I am excited today because it is Friday. It is freezing cold outside right now. We had a, I guess an Arctic blast is what you would call it. Or maybe that hasn't even came through yet. But I went to bed last night and it was like 75, 80 degrees outside. It felt like. Wake up this morning, it's 38. That's Oklahoma for you though. Anyhow, so we're going to talk a little bit today about Guns N' Roses a little bit more, but not necessarily on the gameplay and all that. What I would like to discuss is the reaction that I've got from my previous podcast where I gave a hands-on review of the game. I was able to go and play it, and I gave my general opinions on what that game was. Now, you know, something interesting happened with this, And it typically does happen whenever you're giving opinions on different games that are new. I've noticed that this happens a lot. And I've seen it elsewhere before I even started doing podcasting. But, of course, I'm experiencing it a little bit more when I get to interact with you guys out there. Right? And here's the way that I want to really break this down. my idea of being able to do this podcast is essentially me and you the viewer the listener whoever it is if you're listening right now i want this to be as if we are at a bar having a beer sitting down and talking pinball but obviously in this situation you just aren't able to talk back immediately but i enjoy interacting with people and hearing from you guys in the comments in the emails, messages, whatever it could be. And the one thing that I really want to tell everybody is whatever my opinions might be, and I said this before, it is not gospel. I'll tell you guys, I have an extraordinarily non-ego. That's like extraordinary humble. Remember that, Monica? I'm extraordinarily humble. No, what I'm getting at, guys, is I don't really have an ego on this thing. I don't feel like my opinion, just because I happen to have a microphone, just because I happen to have a camera, just because I happen to hit record, it doesn't necessarily mean my opinion has any more weight than what all of your guys' opinions are. And I feel like we can have differing opinions, and they can both be right, because it's based off what our experience is in pinball. What is our experience playing pinball? What experience are we having? There's a lot of variables that goes into this when we come to a decision on whether or not we like a game. And I'm never going to fault anybody for not liking something that I like. You know, one of my favorite games of all time is sitting right behind me, Star Wars from Stern. And that has been panned by a lot of people as being something that didn't quite capture the spirit of Star Wars or wasn't as immersive as it could possibly be. It wasn't the world under glass. We've heard that said a lot. And I got to readily admit they're right. But I still enjoy the pen. So what I'm getting at, guys, is that we can have all kinds of different opinions on this. And it doesn't invalidate anything. I'm telling you guys. I got some emails that, and this was kind of funny to me. I got some emails from people that are Jersey Jack fans that were really upset over my assessment of it. Even given a B minus, they were upset about that. And what I would just like to say to you guys, and if you're listening to this and you happen to be one of those people that was legitimately upset, I would say, look, the reality is, is just because I don't see something as a runaway hit, and you do, does not invalidate your purchase. If you think it's a runaway hit, then that's where you need to go with it. That's your enjoyment level of it, and that is great. that is perfect I should not have the power at all to take that away from you and I don't because I am literally a nobody when it comes to pinball I am a nobody I I told you guys this before I'm just an idiot with the mic with an opinion and I enjoy conversing with you guys even if somebody disagrees with me I enjoy it I don't want to be in an echo chamber at all I don't work like that I don't want to be in an echo chamber to where everybody's just agreeing with me I mean if you do agree with me great we can talk about that and we can go a little deeper into it and we can find common ground that perfectly fine too but I also got emails too from Stern fans that felt like I wasn critical enough And it like guys guys and that shows you right there And what I'm getting at is, is people will have different experiences on the same pinball machine, right? We'll all feel something a little bit different based on how do we perceive this theme? what has happened in our lives leading up to enjoying a certain theme, to enjoying a certain type of gameplay, to enjoying how the lights, how the sounds are, how whatever it is, it could be within that machine, the design, whatever, anything, art, the whole, the whole package. Right. And, you know, I know that also one of the critiques that, that I gave was that the multiball for me was a little too much. And some people interpret that as I hate multiball. I got that a little bit. I don't even know what that means. I, you know, here's the thing guys. I like ice cream right now. I'm in my Batman mode. It's winter time. I need to work out. I need to shed some pounds. Like I'll readily admit that. Don't laugh again, Monica. I see you over there, but I do. I, and so what I'm getting at is guys, I like ice cream, right? But I like a bowl of ice cream. I don't want to go eat the whole damn gallon of ice cream. After a while, it's diminishing returns. And that's kind of the way that I view this. Now, for some of you guys out there, you may want to eat the whole bowl of ice cream and that's, or the whole gallon of ice cream, the whole store. You may even just buy a fricking Baskin Robbins and that's perfectly fine. That's perfectly fine. I think we should all enjoy pinball the way that we enjoy pinball. Period. Full stop. That's what it is. That's just the way I feel. You know, and when it comes to GNR, I do, even though I feel like it's not game of the year, again, my opinion, I feel like it's not game of the year, I still think, though, that it is going to win game of the year. Like, I still do. I don't see, it's so popular to the majority of people, and they sold so quickly, and they got people so fired up. There's no denying that. You can't. It's a factual fact. It's not a fake fact. It's not an alternative fact. That's a fact. It was a roaring hit out of the gate because they crushed it. They crushed it. They crushed the marketing. They crushed the hype. It was the perfect theme for what they were doing. It's awesome that they're still following it up with all these behind the scenes things. There's a lot of things that went right. There's a lot of things that went right. But at the same time, it doesn't mean that it's going to be a runaway hit for everybody in their experience. And that is fine because there will never, ever be a pinball machine that is 100% loved by everybody. There will never be a 10 out of 10 pinball machine. It won't happen. It won't happen. There's just no way. There's just no way. Unless somebody puts out one single pin and only one person experiences it ever, and that person is, hey, 10 out of 10. It just won't happen. So, you know, moving forward out of this, I think what I would like to get across to all of you guys is that I respect everybody's opinion. I respect opinions that differ from mine. I respect opinions that are the same. I think pinball is a very hard thing to do. It is not easy to code. It's not easy to design. It's probably not easy to get some of these licenses. It's probably not easy to market it. There's a lot of things that are difficult when it comes to business, especially if you're running businesses in the sense that you're selling millions of dollars of product. That is a difficult thing to do. These aren't, I mean, these aren't super, super small businesses. These are mid-tier small business that are getting up there. When you're talking about revenue going over $20 to $30 million, you're getting up there a little bit. And it's not an easy thing to do. And what I would like to see the industry move towards more is that, you know, I would like people to understand that just because you don't like something doesn't mean that you hate it. We don't have to shit on everything that we don't like. It doesn't have to be that extreme. It doesn't have to be that extreme. You know, there's plenty of TV shows I'm sure you guys can think of that, hey, if it's on and you're sitting down, you might watch an episode or two. But are you going to spend your Friday night binging on previous seasons of it? Maybe, maybe not. Does that mean you hate it? Just because you don't? Like, no, of course not. Of course not. But anyhow, I would fully like to say that Guns N' Roses for sure, for sure, full stop, is a hit. For sure is a hit. Is it a hit that I would want to play all the time No it not And I can say that I can say that it the same way There plenty of movies out there that are surefire hits that just crushed the box office I watched it one time. I'm good. I'm good. I enjoyed it for what it was. It wasn't the perfect experience, but I still enjoyed it. I got the utility out of it that I needed to. And that's what happened. Anyhow, let's push forward a little bit more. What is really interesting to me right now is that we are seeing after my last podcast that I did put out that I talked a little bit about potential issues I could see cropping up. It turned out that there has been some reports of play field pulling. Now, I cannot really make any type of assessment on it because quite frankly, I don't know much about it. I'm sure you're going to hear it on other podcasts and people talking about it that know way more on this issue than what I know. All I can really say from a pinball a fan standpoint is I hope any issues that are happening out of box that could be happening with a play field or anything else, I hope it's figured out because I would hate to see people that bought the collector's edition or any edition at that rate, but especially the collector's edition and spend close to $13,000 an all in price for some people. It could be over that for people that are buying a third party and even be higher. But I would hate to see people get their pinball machines after spending that much money on it and it not be as close to perfect as possible out of box. Of course, you're going to have, you know, you're going to have mechanical issues. You're going to have stuff like that. But when you have, you know, I guess the word I'd want to use is superficial issues or any type of issues that deal with the play field in general. That's alarming to me. And I hope it gets fixed. I hope that this is isolated. I really do. and I would just like to see them get that right because I don't want to see anybody put out that amount of scratch and then get a pin and that happens. It happens because it's not fun. It's not fun at all. So I wonder if that could possibly be why we're kind of seeing a slower rollout of getting these pins out. Obviously, Jersey Jack even admitted that they got a lot more orders than what they anticipated. There's a lot higher demand, which, you know, kind of threw me off a little bit. Not going to lie, because I figured if you're going in that deep into your marketing in terms of bringing in a professional team, in terms of using straight down the middle for, you know, the featurette in terms of using Buffalo for a gameplay stream, I mean using what was it? I can't even think of the can't think of the name, the podcast name, the other podcast where they had the designer going. I'm drawing a blank. Was it super awesome pinball show? There we go. Okay, I remembered it now. So what I'm getting at is that they did this full-prong attack to where they had people going here, they had people going there, they had people going here. So they were obviously, it was well-coordinated. It was great. But what struck me as odd, it was almost like they did not anticipate their own success out of the gate. And I don't know how that happens because I'm not inside there. I don't know. I would just have to generally assume. I know whenever we did a product launch for the various things that I was associated with, we always assumed that it would sell more than we anticipated. We always assumed that. Because the last thing I'd want to do is understand. I did not want to sell out immediately. I didn't want to do that. And that's for a variety of reasons. And so I'm kind of curious how that played out. Again, I'm not sure if that's related because of manufacturing. I'm not sure if that's related just because they underpriced it, although I think that they did underprice the CEs just based off judging from demand and the amount that they actually sold, because apparently demand was twice the amount that was available. And, you know, it's just, I mean, it's one of those things that there is a lot of things that come together to make this go. And, again, it's not easy. It's not easy getting your manufacturing lined up with a product launch. It's not easy to actually get that product launch efficiently. and it's not easy to get it launched to the extent that you actually do sell a ton of products. I just think moving forward, I think it's an example that all pinball companies can really look at and really examine that you have to, and especially for anybody that's not Stern. Because I feel like Stern in general, they definitely have a grasp on this. They're a manufacturing giant when it comes to pinball. But all other companies, though, can take note of this and know that your manufacturing capabilities, definitely keep in mind that whatever you are putting out there marketing wise, that you're making sure that you can meet the demand immediately because otherwise you're going to lose a lot of momentum early on. You're going to lose a lot of momentum and you're going to have a lot of upset people. And there is right now, there's a lot of people that are still wondering when they're going to get their pins. Just the same way that there was a lot of people, the whole debacle of people not even knowing if they were actually in for a CE when they thought they were in for a CE. I would be very unhappy about that I can imagine When I think about it in my head because I such a huge Avengers fan I cannot imagine thinking I in on an Avengers pen on a limited edition collector edition ultimate edition, whatever it could be the top tier edition. I cannot imagine thinking I'm in on that. And then waking up the next morning and realizing, wait, holy shit, I don't have access to one. I would not be happy. I personally would be very upset by that. I'd be jaded by that, just knowing what I know. Because I've seen people say, well, that's just part of something being limited. That's part of something being difficult to get. And I'm like, yeah, kind of. But at the same time, if you think that you had it and you find out you didn't, it's kind of a kick in the stomach. It just is what it is. So hopefully that all gets sorted out in the future moving forward. Hopefully that the people that did order the CEs and were able to get in on one, hopefully that the playfields turn out fine. Hopefully everybody that got the LE, that they'll get it quickly, or at least in a good time before Christmas time, hopefully. But obviously it's not going to happen for a lot of people. And I'm sure more information about that's going to come out. but other than that that's i mean that's pretty much all i got this is a short and sweet podcast i think there's new code for avengers there's new code for hot wheels but i haven't got a chance to play any of that because i am coming out pretty soon with my review of avengers early next week uh spoiler alert and i kind of said this in one of the comments earlier another video i am having issues with avengers right now and the issue is is that the vuck during one of the games I was playing. It was game 102. So what I'm doing here with Avengers, just to give you guys a little example here, is I'm doing a new series to where I'm showing what the play field, what everything looks like after a certain amount of plays, different milestones, like 100 plays, 250, 500, 1,000, just to kind of show the life of a pinball machine that is played hard. Like, you know, I'll nudge the pins, I'll slap it around, I'll play hard, but I don't set them up super easy either. I have them playing fair, just straight out of factory, a little bit of a tight tilt, and I like to play the games hard. And I got to game 100, and everything was great, no issues really. I never even had to take off the glass for a stuck ball or anything like that. Game 102, after filming everything and all that, the ball goes in the vuck in the mystery, right? a vertical up kicker for those scoring at home it shoots it up and this ball basically goes through this little wire form that sends it on what would that be geometry wise like a 90 degree angle and flips it back to a 180 degree i hope i'm being clear here anyways it shoots it up from the buck and it hits on the right wire form that feeds it back down to the right in lane well as soon as it did that and i have it turned down too as soon as it did that all of a sudden it i just heard a loud snap like a just a little diamond that doesn't pop it was it was a snap guys i heard a snap and then all of a sudden i realized the ball's not coming quick down the wire form and so it took me a few to figure out what happened and i didn't flip away i just let it drain immediately and i looked, I'm like, what is going on? And come to find out the wire form that leads back to the right end lane had broke off its base. So it's basically just setting three or four inches straight up and the wire forms just kind of hang in there. And I'm like, Oh, I don't know how that happened. I haven't taken off the glass to look at it yet. I just, I immediately contacted Zach and of course him being an awesome distributor legitimately in less than a minute. I, he was already on it. So, I mean, that's awesome. So for anybody out there, here we go. Shameless plug for the podcast and channel sponsor. Flip now pinball right there. If you got an issue and you contact Zach, he will take care of it as quickly as humanly possible. Like he's, he's always done that. And so hopefully I get this new part in pretty soon. Otherwise I cannot play the game right now, but overall my experience is, is pretty enjoyable on it. I won't lie. It's, it's a lot of fun. I have fun shooting it. And so I'll come out with a, with a review, probably on my next podcast sometime early next week. And I got a few videos in the works that I have filmed. I just need to get them edited, get them put together and we'll be doing all that. But other than that though, guys, that's about all I have right now. Let me know in the comments, what you guys think about guns and roses for those that have played it. Like I'm curious, because I really want to know what people think about it, their first impression of it when they've got a chance to play it. What do you guys enjoy about the game? That's what I want to hear. I want to hear what people enjoy about the game. Other than that, you guys have an awesome weekend. Enjoy the Carl Weathers. If it's nice where you're at, if it's freezing cold, bundle up. Stay safe. Other than that, I'll talk to you guys later. Later, guys.

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 0f9f4cd9-b041-4b60-9c93-ad6a83b3e9a4*