# Episode 643: "Around The Pinball World"

**Source:** Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2022-01-25  
**Duration:** 35m 7s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-643-61630835

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## Analysis

Kaneda discusses the pinball industry's current state in early 2022, covering Stern's Rush release, upcoming Stern titles (Venom, James Bond, potential Back to the Future), Jersey Jack's silence on new games, Spooky Pinball's perceived missteps with animations and code quality, and criticism of manufacturers like Haggis, Chicago Gaming, and American Pinball for failing to deliver on manufacturing promises or game magic. The episode opens with tribute to Lyman Sheets and includes praise for a small Spanish manufacturer's Super Hoop prototype.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Stern revealed and shipped Rush in just a matter of weeks — _Kaneda, describing Stern's production model as superior to competitors_
- [HIGH] Rush is 'an okay game' that won't convert non-Rush fans, similar to Ninja Turtles or Munsters in terms of collectibility and hype shelf life — _Kaneda's direct game assessment after hearing player feedback_
- [MEDIUM] Stern's next major titles in 2022 are Venom (Brian Eddy), James Bond (George Gomez), and Keith Elwin's unknown game (possibly Back to the Future) — _Kaneda speculating on Stern's pipeline; James Bond rumored to feature Roger Moore/Sean Connery era, designed by Gomez potentially finishing Steve Ritchie's work_
- [MEDIUM] George Gomez may be finishing a James Bond game started by Steve Ritchie (Three White Woods project) — _Kaneda rumor: 'the rumor is that he is finishing this game that was started by Steve Ritchie'_
- [HIGH] Spooky Pinball's recent games (implied Halloween and Ultraman) have weak code, poor animations, and declining desirability compared to Rick and Morty — _Kaneda's detailed critique of Spooky's execution: 'one step forward and two steps back' on animations, code, rulesets_
- [HIGH] If Spooky offered refunds today, there would be 'a run at the bank' from preorder customers — _Kaneda's rhetorical assessment of customer sentiment and secondary market conditions_
- [MEDIUM] Haggis Pinball's Fathom production has begun but without visual evidence shared by manufacturer — _Kaneda on Damien's announcement: 'Damien has said that fathom pinball production and manufacturing has begun' but no assembly line photos provided_
- [MEDIUM] Haggis Pinball will 'financially cripple' itself due to accumulated manufacturing delays and burn costs — _Kaneda's assessment: 'making fathom will financially cripple this company because you can't have this many delays'_
- [HIGH] Chicago Gaming's Cactus Canyon remake lost hype due to premature reveal and poor launch execution — _Kaneda: 'They showed the game too early. They didn't have all the parts... The games weren't on the line'_
- [MEDIUM] Original IP games should be priced at $5,000-$6,000 to compete with licensed titles; anything above that is non-competitive — _Kaneda's pricing philosophy on unlicensed games: 'five to six thousand dollars anything over that get out of town'_

### Notable Quotes

> "Rush Pro has landed and I still am amazed every time Stern does this. As every other manufacturer out there struggles to reveal a game and ship a game, Stern Pinball realizes we are not going to show you the game until it's on the line. Why is that so hard for everybody else to do?"
> — **Kaneda**, early in episode
> _Central critique of Stern's manufacturing advantage and competitor failures_

> "It's okay. It's not going to light your world on fire... If you are a Rush fan, you will enjoy this pinball machine. If you don't like Rush, I think this is an easy skip for everybody else."
> — **Kaneda**, early segment
> _Assessment that Rush is theme-dependent with limited universal appeal_

> "I just think Spooky Pinball took one step forward and two steps back with this game. They took two steps back in animations, in code, in rulesets and also two steps back when it comes to desirability."
> — **Kaneda**, Spooky Pinball segment
> _Harsh verdict on Spooky's recent production quality and market perception_

> "The Factory does not care how much you love pinball. The Factory does not care how passionate you are about the title... A Factory that is inefficient will close down."
> — **Kaneda**, Haggis Pinball discussion
> _Philosophical statement on manufacturing economics and company failure patterns_

> "They tried to do it all themselves... when Spooky made games all by themselves with their own internal talent, they felt very homebrew. They felt very like unpolished. And then more people came into the spooky family and the games got better... but a lot of the talent that helped them get here is not involved in these games."
> — **Kaneda**, Spooky analysis
> _Analysis of Spooky's internal talent loss and decline in quality_

> "Do I want to be the designer with my name on the apron or should we hire Somebody that I can learn from and hire someone who has a higher skill set than I do right now?"
> — **Kaneda**, Spooky future strategy discussion
> _Kaneda's direct advice to Spooky's leadership on ego and hiring_

> "If you're going to be in the pinball industry, you got to put magic in a box or just just don't bother."
> — **Kaneda**, American Pinball critique
> _Core industry principle statement about game design and differentiation_

> "I bet on half of these pinball machines, you can't even pinpoint a single magical moment, something that you would grab someone and say, you've got to see when this pinball machine does this."
> — **Kaneda**, closing critique
> _Fundamental challenge to modern game design lacking memorable signature moments_

> "When you go play the games with the magical moments and the magical mechs and the magical experiences you go back to these newer games and you're looking at all them with rose colored glasses especially the fact that these games are so expensive medieval madness was 1700 bucks when it came out."
> — **Kaneda**, closing remarks
> _Comparison of modern games to classic standards and pricing inflation critique_

> "Stop modding your Guns N' Roses machines. It doesn't need mods. You're ruining your games, people. It's a beautiful work of art. Don't make it tacky and ugly."
> — **Kaneda**, Jersey Jack Pinball segment
> _Commentary on player customization practices and game preservation_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Kaneda | person | Host of Kaneda's Pinball Podcast; industry analyst and critic discussing manufacturer performance and game releases |
| Lyman Sheets | person | Pinball designer whose death is mourned at episode opening; major contributor to pinball history |
| Stern Pinball | company | Major manufacturer praised for efficient reveal-to-ship pipeline; producing Rush, Venom, James Bond in 2022 |
| Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Premium boutique manufacturer criticized for lack of new game announcements and over-reliance on Guns N' Roses promotion |
| Spooky Pinball | company | Manufacturer facing criticism for weak code quality, declining animations, and loss of key talent; producing Halloween and Ultraman titles |
| Haggis Pinball | company | Australian manufacturer led by Damien Harton; plagued by production delays on Fathom remake; facing financial strain from accumulated burn costs |
| Chicago Gaming Company | company | Manufacturer of Cactus Canyon remake criticized for premature reveal and poor marketing execution |
| American Pinball | company | Manufacturer of Legends of Valhalla (500 units) and Hot Wheels; criticized for slow production and weak game design |
| Dutch Pinball | company | Company producing Raza; criticized for unfulfilled commitments to customers burned by previous Raza ownership (Andrew project) |
| George Gomez | person | Stern designer rumored to be designing James Bond; Kaneda hopes he will return after prior Stern hiatus |
| Brian Eddy | person | Stern designer working on Venom; criticized by Kaneda for prior underperforming designs (Stranger Things, Mandalorian) |
| Keith Elwin | person | Stern designer with unknown 2022 game title; Kaneda speculates it could be Back to the Future or Jaws |
| Jack Danger | person | New Stern designer; rumored 2022 game either Foo Fighters or He-Man Masters of the Universe |
| Joe Kamikow | person | Designer associated with James Bond; Kaneda cites his prior work with Stern on Beatles and Batman for premium editions |
| Steve Ritchie | person | Former Stern designer rumored to have started Three White Woods project; George Gomez potentially finishing his work on James Bond |
| Rush | game | Stern pinball machine released early 2022; themed on Rush band; receiving 'okay' reception with theme-dependent appeal |
| Venom | game | Upcoming Stern game designed by Brian Eddy; themed on Marvel character; features artwork by Zombie Yeti |
| James Bond | game | Upcoming Stern game designed by George Gomez; rumored to feature Roger Moore and Sean Connery era films; expected to have premium/LE versions |
| Back to the Future | game | Speculated Keith Elwin/Stern project; Kaneda discusses licensing challenges but sees potential for Joe Kamikow execution |
| Super Hoop | game | Prototype by Ketzel Pinball/Bitronic (Spain); praised by Kaneda for playfield flow, three-flipper design, and upper flipper mechanics despite small manufacturer track record |
| Fathom | game | Haggis Pinball remake with manufacturing reportedly begun; delayed multiple times from July target; financial strain on manufacturer |
| Cactus Canyon | game | Chicago Gaming remake criticized for lost hype due to premature reveal; Kaneda predicts it will not command premium pricing |
| Legends of Valhalla | game | American Pinball title priced at $6,500; criticized as uninspired and lacking magical moments |
| Damien Harton | person | Founder/leader of Haggis Pinball; managing Fathom production amid delays and financial hardship |
| David Fix | person | American Pinball leadership; Kaneda criticizes for overselling 500 units of Legends of Valhalla and slow production |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Stern Pinball 2022 pipeline and manufacturing strategy, Spooky Pinball production quality decline and code issues, Manufacturing delays at Haggis Pinball (Fathom) and financial viability, Game design philosophy: magical moments vs. mechanical features
- **Secondary:** Pricing strategy and competition between manufacturers, Preorder culture and customer sentiment across the industry, Jersey Jack Pinball's marketing and new game announcements, Chicago Gaming Company's Cactus Canyon remake execution

### Sentiment

**Negative** (-0.65) — Kaneda expresses frustration with most major manufacturers' execution, delivery timelines, and design quality. Primary criticisms directed at Spooky, Haggis, American Pinball, and Chicago Gaming for failing to deliver on promises or create compelling games. Stern receives qualified praise for logistics but Rush assessed as 'okay' with limited appeal. Small positive note on Spanish manufacturer Super Hoop. Overall tone is pessimistic about industry trajectory and customer treatment.

### Signals

- **[announcement]** Stern's 2022 lineup confirmed: Rush (shipped), Venom (Brian Eddy), James Bond (George Gomez), Keith Elwin's unknown title, and Jack Danger's game (Foo Fighters or He-Man rumored) (confidence: high) — Kaneda discusses Stern's 2022 slate with specific designer assignments and speculated themes
- **[product_launch]** Rush pinball by Stern already shipping to breweries, bars, and some home collectors early 2022 (confidence: high) — 'Rush Pinball is already out in the world. People are enjoying it... it's out in the real world. It's at bars. It's in some people's homes.'
- **[product_concern]** Spooky Pinball's recent games (Halloween, Ultraman) show significant degradation in animation quality, code architecture, and rulesets compared to prior work (confidence: high) — Kaneda: 'took two steps back in animations, in code, in rulesets'; community feedback about weak coding of multiple pathways
- **[product_concern]** Haggis Pinball's Fathom remake announced in production but without photographic evidence; delays from July target continue to accumulate (confidence: medium) — 'Damien has said that fathom pinball production and manufacturing has begun. Okay, you know what he didn't share? A picture of manufacturing.'
- **[sentiment_shift]** Spooky Pinball customer sentiment has shifted; preorder holders would request refunds if offered, indicating secondary market weakness and declining desirability (confidence: high) — 'What do you think would happen if Spooky Pinball offered refunds right now?... There would be a run at the bank'
- **[personnel_signal]** Spooky Pinball has lost key design and coding talent; original Spooky crew is back at helm but underpowered for current production demands (confidence: medium) — Kaneda: 'a lot of the talent that helped them get here is not involved in these games... It's almost like the original spooky crew is now back at the helm'
- **[rumor_hype]** Keith Elwin's unknown 2022 Stern game rumored to be Back to the Future, Jaws, or other licensed IP; Kaneda expresses hope for BTTF despite licensing challenges (confidence: low) — 'Is it going to be Back to the Future? Is it going to be Jaws? Is it going to be something completely out of left field that nobody predicted?'
- **[design_philosophy]** Kaneda argues that modern pinball games prioritize mechanical complexity and flow over 'magical moments'—memorable signature features that make games memorable (confidence: high) — 'if I ask you to tell me what's the magical moment in this game... you can't even pinpoint a single magical moment'
- **[manufacturing_signal]** Multiple manufacturers (Haggis, American Pinball, Chicago Gaming) struggling with production scaling; Kaneda attributes failures to poor planning and capital burn (confidence: high) — Kaneda on Haggis: 'you can't have this many delays and there is no way all these months he's had to burn money'; on American Pinball: production not happening fast enough
- **[market_signal]** Modern pinball prices ($8,000-$15,000+) are inflated relative to game quality and magical design; Medieval Madness comparison ($1,700 MSRP) shows historical value shift (confidence: high) — Kaneda: 'I think it's silly when people are spending $15,000 on all these SternLEs... It's a pinball machine, people... medieval madness was 1700 bucks when it came out'
- **[community_signal]** Kaneda criticizes player modding of Guns N' Roses machines; represents friction between preservationists and customizers in the community (confidence: medium) — 'Stop modding your Guns N' Roses machines. It doesn't need mods. You're ruining your games, people.'
- **[business_signal]** Haggis Pinball's accumulated manufacturing delays and capital burn will 'financially cripple' the company; future games (Centaur, Marty Robbins) unlikely to materialize (confidence: medium) — Kaneda: 'making fathom will financially cripple this company... he's realized that making pinball is super hard... he's going to take whatever it takes to get you your games because now he's in deep'

---

## Transcript

 Do you ever get a chance to anything else yeah Bernieımız MVP Welcome to kaneko ou Tantra, Mike, Troy, Python Anghelo, Jimmy, Daniel, Kaz, I think those are all the latest ones. We're doing about 10 new members a week and this is Kaneda's Pinball Podcast and I don't know about you but it's been somewhat of a sad, sad week in the world of pinball. Obviously, the loss of Lyman Sheets continues to hang over this hobby in a way that has really unified people. I mean, everyone's been sharing their stories of Lyman. Some of you never met him, but you've probably experienced his The game is still in the game, but it will continue to be a dark cloud that hangs over the pinball world. But we are just thankful that we got to experience the genius of Lyman Sheets in the world and in these games because as I said, pinball would never be what it is without his contributions and we really do wish his family all the best as they struggle through this time. Alright now look, I'm looking at a new game right now and before I go down the list of The Pinball World I want to talk about this new game that someone sent me and I'm looking at it and I'm like You know what for a pinball company that has only made like I think two games over like ten years This super hoop pinball machine by like Ketzel over there in Spain and Bitronic alright So I'm looking at this final prototype video of a super hoop pinball machine and I have to say Ql что العمل في P pirate Pinball is легко用于hsted all the manufacturers campstand tempestyear days machine it isn't оперated for any company like this i've never read internet hurt by my job at the white money look us is three flipper game we've like All of these mechs in it with all of these interesting shots with really good flow and geometry. It shoots the ball up into a basketball hoop. It's got this amazing upper right flipper up the ramp looping around. You know when everyone's always complaining how stern upper flippers you can't make the upper ramp? Well this game, go look at it. This guy's like comboing the ramp over and over and over and over again. and the display is nice and big on the backbox and they've got this really cool lighting that goes around the entire cabinet dare I say that Kenaida is impressed with an effort from a pinball company but I am impressed with this game and I you know I don't know anything about it I don't know how much it costs I don't know when it's out but I do know that super hoop by Bitronic Ketzel Pinball now they made um that Captain Nemo game and he also made some driving game I forget the name of it ColemanНуabolicalCodeacker. Last peak 1979 глубclathanצ Original IP games with fun stuff in it and a really fun rewarding pinball experience five to six thousand dollars anything over that get out of town You're not gonna get anybody's money You're not gonna get anybody's money because once you go over five to six thousand you are now competing Against license themes and there is no way you can compete and that is why if you go original IP You got to go below market and you should be below market because you're not paying for any licensing fees The money should go into the game itself. See what I mean? If a $6,000 can be licensed then a $5,000 pin with no license can have a lot in it. I should be right on that but I've never made a game so who knows what a bomb really costs in the pinball world. So let's go down the list of manufacturers. Let's talk about where they're at. It's a little bit of a low period. We all know it. There's nothing really happening other than the inflated prices, the stock market crumbling, crypto. When Computerтора certain國 All right, so let's talk about Stern pinball first. So we have to congratulate Stern pinball. They once again revealed and shipped a pin in just a matter of weeks. Rush Pinball is already out in the world. People are enjoying it. For some reason, the first games always end up at like breweries and beer houses, but it's out in the real world. It's at bars. It's in some people's homes. Rush Pro has landed and I still am amazed every time Stern does this. As As every other manufacturer out there struggles to reveal a game and ship a game, Stern Pinball realizes we are not going to show you the game until it's on the line. Why is that so hard for everybody else to do? It's so easy to do it that way. Just don't ask for people's money until your game is being built. Is it that hard? Is it really that hard? And I think everyone else who does it the other way should be ashamed of themselves. The gotta stop preordering games. It is absolutely asinine that people paid in full or even paid a deposit on games like Fathom eight, nine months ago and not even a single screw has been put together in the game. Maybe they are in the January where those games we'll talk about Haggis in a little bit, but Stern Pinball Rush is going out the door. Now, I've heard some feedback from people who have played the game and here's what I'm getting from people that it's okay. It's an okay game. It's not going to light your world on fire. All right, so let's get into the game. First of all, I'm going to talk about the pinball machine. I'm going to talk about the pinball machine. I'm going to talk about the pinball machine, because I think it's a very important thing for me as a player. It's not one of the best sterns of all time, but everyone who plays it says the same thing to me. If you are a Rush fan, you will enjoy this pinball machine. If you don't like Rush, I think this is an easy skip for everybody else. And I think that's what I've always been saying about these music pins is why would you buy a music pin if you don't love the music? Now I know the one big caveat to that is a game called Iron Maiden. Iron Maiden is a game that transcends apparently the Iron Maiden music. Everybody who jumps on Iron Maiden and spends time on that pinball machine comes away saying wow. Even if I don't like this music, this game is a wow. Now I don't think Rush is going to do that. I don't think Rush is going to convert people over. I don't think Rush is going to be such an amazing pinball experience that you can overlook the fact that you don't love the band. So it's out there. It's in the world. People 워 layouts Eight o'clock Radio, I think RushLE is going to go down and be more of like a Ninja Turtles. I do. I think it's going to be more like a Munsters. I do. And I don't mean that's because it's a bad game. I just don't think there is enough of people who will feel like they missed out on this LE. I also don't think the game itself is going to have a very long shelf life of hype. And you need to have a longer shelf life of hype than just a couple of weeks. I think this game is going to come out. I think it's going to be exciting for 29538 Думаю, что, если бы я не был украшен, я бы был в педагогическом обряде. I think everyone else is gonna be like what's next and I think that's the kind of pin rush is gonna be it's okay Stern gonna make their money on it fans will be happy and guess what good news unlike everyone else in the pinball world stern will be on to their next game in just three months where everyone else it's like three years so congratulations to the team over at stern for getting this game out there i don't think it's gonna land with much of an impact i don't accusing atmospheric TV anteco housekeeping since I going to get Brian Eddy venom Will Brian Eddy finally hit a home run I would love to see Brian Eddy prove something this time around I think the first two swings at the plate I think he really sort of didn hit and connect with the ball I don I don think Stranger Things was a home run and I sure don think Mandalorian was a home run considering the theme Now Venom is his third attempt at Stern Pinball Are we going to see something really that going to wow us Are we going to see a world under glass I hope so. I really do hope so. I'm a little nervous, but I don't really care. I'll tell you why I don't really care because I don't really care that much about venom. I think Venom is cool. I think Spider-Man is cool, but I'm a 45 year old adult and Spider-Man and Venom and these Marvel comic book games while I'll play them on location. They are not something that I'm dying to own and I'm just not. So I'm able to look at Venom with a lot more indifference. And when I think about like Themes that matter to me. It's just like stuff I engage with. Like I love Toy Story. I've seen Toy Story so many times. I have a Buzz Lightyear doll above my bed. I have a Buzzlightyear toy on my shelf. I don't have anything Venom in my house right now. I don't roll around with Venom t-shirts on. Some of you do. Some of you collect comic books. This is a dream theme for some of you. So I know you're rooting for this game to be great. I think the art package from Zombie Yeti will be phenomenal. It's not based on the Venom movies. So I I think it's going to give Stern some freedom to do a lot more of like their own venom adventure. I think it's going to be a lot like Deadpool and I do think the game is going to be successful. I think you're going to see a lot of people gravitate towards this game, but I also don't think it's going to be a huge title for Stern and after venom we're going to get James Bond by George Gomez. Now I think that's going to be the big one. I think we're going to see two big titles from Stern in 2022. I think we're going to see James Bond and then I think Keith Elwin's next game The game is called The Juggernaut. So what do I think they're going to be? So I think obviously it's going to be James Bond. I think it's going to be a Kapow title with Joe Kamikow. And I think James Bond's going to be a game where you're going to see Stern really launch super expensive versions of James Bond. They've done it every time Joe Kamikow makes a Stern machine. We saw it with Batman. We saw it with Beatles. For some reason Stern loves to see how rich we are when Joe Kamikow is in the house. And nobody's richer than Joe Kamikow. The game is based on the old classic James Bond, not the new one. Probably Roger Moore and Sean Connery. I think it's going to be those two and the movies that those two people were in. I don't think we're going to see Daniel Craig or any of the newer James Bonds. So that is going to be very, very interesting. George Gomez back at the design table. Also, the rumor is that he is finishing this game that was started by Steve Ritchie. And we know Steve Ritchie was working on Three White Woods before he left Stern. So will this be George Gomez finishing what Steve Ritchie started? I don't know. I kind of hope it's just Gomez from the get go. I really do. I love George Gomez designs. I wish they were a little bit less clunky. So maybe Keith Elwin can sit down with him and make his games a little bit less clunky. But that is what I think is happening. And then Keith Elwin's big pin is the question mark. Is it going to be Back to the Future? Is it going to be Jaws? Is it going to be something completely out of left field that nobody predicted? Who knows, right? I keep thinking that I would love for it to be Back to the Future and then I wake up one day and I'm like, it can't be Back to the Future. But if it is Back to the Future, none of our money is safe, none of our marriages are safe, none of our kids' college tuitions are safe. Because if Stern makes Back to the Future by stringjoberst adventurousmonkey richtysyyy vrctosis stringjoberst exacerwnomaniay stringjobaranmer stringjobaran2 stringjobaran2 They can't make it an all original Back to the Future adventure with Marty and Doc in pinball form the way Jurassic Park was done, right? They didn't base it on the movie. It was an all new Jurassic Park adventure. Well, it's loosely based on the films, but no, you need to see the clips from the movie. You need to have the callouts from the actors in the iconic scenes because there are just so many of them. And we know that's been a licensing problem to get all that into a Back to the Future game. But if anybody can do it, it's Joe Kamikow and it's Sternpinball. So we'll see. And then you got Jack Danger who is now a designer over there at Stern. And I think Jack Danger's new game is either going to be Foo Fighter or it's going to be He-Man Masters of the Universe. And so that is Stern's 2022. We kind of know everything. The only thing we don't know is if they will vault stuff and remake some games in 2022. The rumor I heard is they are going to renew the Ghostbusters numerology效, boros movies, core economics, This Week in Pinball Podcast, Terminate a very good chance that Stern will just rerun this thing and make a ton of money they're not stupid they like seeing the secondhand market go so high because it shows them the potential if they just do a rerun on these three games like tron or ghostbusters or even games like guardians where people are paying way over for them they're going to make a ton of money and they're not dumb they're not going to leave money on the table let's go over to jersey jack pinball i just want to give jersey jack This Week in Pinball쳐irseaysideourd Ghost gets firing sinoedel relation to bystander or theme depois vu People are putting drum sets on top of drum sets. They're sticking slash in the game all over the place. Why? Stop modding your Guns N' Roses machines. It doesn't need mods. You're ruining your games, people. It's a beautiful work of art. Don't make it tacky and ugly. Sorry mod community. This game doesn't need all those mods. I think Jersey Jack Pinball needs to start. It's a new year. This year has to be defined by the new game and it will be. But why can't they just start to get their fanbase excited and rallying around something new? And all they gotta say is like, coming Q2 2022, like something, like just get us somewhat excited and it's like nothing, it's crickets. And so there's nothing really to talk about. That's the only thing, I just want them to turn on a little bit of a teaser campaign so we can stop having them promote Guns N' Roses and that's it. They have to be sick of making Guns N' Roses. I'm sick of talking about Guns N' Roses. I'm sick of the playfield issues. I just want to see Toy Story or whatever is next from this company. Alright, let's go over to Spooky Pinball and we've been talking a lot about Spooky. I just want to ask a question right now of everybody out there. What do you think would happen if Spooky Pinball offered refunds right now? What do you think would happen? Would people run and get their money back or would they stay in and wait to see how these games develop? We all know the answer to that question. There would be a run at the bank and everyone would say give me my money back for the most part. Because why? Why would you stay in when you could get your money back and buy the very game you bought for cheaper than you bought it for? And that is where things are at over at Spooky Pinball. I really don't know what to say anymore. You know I was reading a post by someone in the thread last night. I think it was the either the Halloween or the Ultraman thread. And they were saying how like when they hear spooky talk about how they gonna update the code they always just talk about oh like every four to six weeks we gonna add another mode to the game and the guy was saying like that not the problem like this isn this isn about like a missing mode or wizard mode it like you guys just don know how to code a game in which there multiple pathways to take You just don know how to code a game in that way where there different pathways you can take and multiple ways to play the game to keep it exciting and entertaining It not just about one more mode And so is that the case You know I don know what to say anymore And I really don I really don I think we all ran in and we all jumped in on these games But in a lot of ways as I looking at the feedback and I looking at the community response Here's my take on it and it's a little bit brutal and I'm sorry but I just have to say it. I just think Spooky Pinball took one step forward and two steps back with this game. And I think the people's perception of their company is one step forward. They made a game that shot better than most of their other games. It does. This game shoots better than most of their other games. The games look beautiful with artwork but they took two steps back in animations, in code, in rulesets and also two steps back when it comes to desirability. Like the desirability of these games isn't there. In the hottest pinball market people are bailing trying to get their money out and they know that these games are not going to go up in value. These games are not going to have the same affinity that Rick and Morty had. And I sort of feel bad because I mean it's obvious what they did. They tried to do it all themselves. And I know why it ended up like this because Spooky wanted to do it the Spooky way. See here's the thing. I mean the evolution of Spooky is very simple. It's like when Spooky made games all by themselves with their own internal talent, they felt very homebrew. They felt very like unpolished. And then more people came into the spooky family and the games got better, but here's what I think happened now I think a lot of the talent that helped them get here is not involved in these games And so this is where we're at now It's almost like the original spooky crew is now back at the helm But they needed to be further along and it's getting to the point where it's a little bit of like beating a dead horse There's nothing we can do The only thing we can do is hold on and wait to see how these games develop These games are done. Like they're all sold. The only way we're really going to be able to measure if this was a huge mistake by Spooky doing it like this is on their next title. If their next game doesn't sell out day one sight unseen the way these games did, they will know they're in trouble. Now the reason why I do think they're in somewhat of a hard pickle right now. So they're making 1750 of these games and they're going to have to finish production on these games in 2022. And if their next theme The Mainstream license that a lot of people want like if they keep going down like the spooky horror genre If it's another theme that's just close to the hearts of bug and Chuck and not what the mainstream audience wants I don't think people are gonna run to it. I don't I don't think they're gonna sell like these games sold I think people want to see this company evolve. I think they want to see this company mature I think they've made enough money now to mature and evolve and hire new people hire designers hire coders and I think the Emery family this is the hardest thing for the Emery family to do they need to take a step to the side and hire people that are more talented than them and that will be the make or break decision by spooky pinball will they be able to do it if Chuck just wants to hand the company off to bug The It's his family but if I'm bug I say to myself Do I want to be the designer with my name on the apron or should we hire? Somebody that I can learn from and hire someone who has a higher skill set than I do right now and learn from that person because remember Ask yourself who has bug learned from Chuck Chuck's not a good designer Scott Danesi He's not a good designer They've never really had a great designer over at spooky and I think a great designer Could turn this company around and make this company the bell of the ball And it's up to them. They didn't do it on these two titles and they need to do it on the next game it can't be Internally made again, but they're already designing the next game in their minds BASICepherd TURSO TUR филь TURCH TURF T números The game will be going out the door sometime soon. I'm not sure how many orders they got. I'm not sure how many games they're making a week. But at least this company shows pictures of parts. They show pictures of games on the line. They keep people updated, which is good. Now, it's been a long wait. They haven't hit their schedule at all. But you're going to get your game, it looks like. And that's good. Now, are the people who got burned by Andrew going to be made whole? Are they offering those What was backlit...? The game is free. They pay for it, but they are owed a free machine by the new Dutch pinball and they still have not received their games. These are the kinds of companies, people, that we should be putting pressure on. We should be putting pressure on. We should be telling the community, nobody buy any more new games until they start living up to their end of the agreement that for every five games they make, one goes to an EA. I don't think we're holding them accountable and I think they're getting away with it again and I think they could just say one day oh we're closing up shop those hundred people were burned and they put all that extra money in the bank and never got them their games it's just starting to rub me the wrong way I just don't ever think we're gonna get a game two from them and that's that all right let's talk about haggis pinball um you know me look I I've been probably a little unfairly like slapping at haggis pinball just because I'm I'm so tired of the pinball companies that tell you something and then don't deliver. So here's the latest. Damien has said that fathom pinball production and manufacturing has begun. Okay, you know what he didn't share? A picture of manufacturing. And that's the big difference. When a company wants to tell you that manufacturing has begun, but they don't show you a picture of like an assembly line or parts or all the cabinets lined up. I don't believe them. I don't believe them. And why should I believe them? The game was supposed to be on the line in July. So my whole thing is this. I think you're going to get your fathoms. I think making fathom will financially cripple this company because you can't have this many delays and there is no way, there is no way all these months he's had to burn money. So how do you make up that burn? How do you make up that burn? We're going to show the next game, Marty Robbins' game or Centaur. It's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. I think he's realized that making pinball is super hard. It doesn't matter if it's a remake. It's super hard. And I think all these months of burning capital will never be recovered. And I think he's going to take whatever it takes to get you your games because now he's in deep. And when you're in deep, there's something called pride. It's no longer about profit. He's not chasing profit because the profits gone. He's now chasing pride. And all these men who do this, it's the same story. I'd like to be a Fкон packages dev이었a le banke wan hahaha Signal advantageiso ni sat's thatof jucidaján of strings Pleiiis Osman A You will go out of business it is that simple the factory does not care how much you love pinball The factory does not care how passionate you are about the title the factory does not care that you send people Christmas cards the factory does not care that you took pre-order dollars nine months ago a Factory that is inefficient will close down and these gentlemen who get into pinball and jangan ne oppочку v diagram on the screen And they're over in Chicago. And that's the truth. And everyone else who tries to do it and do it this way, which is scale up pretty big, pretty fast has failed. They failed. Spooky Pinball did not scale up pretty big, pretty fast. No, they took eight years to get to where they're at. Now, Damien wants to make a thousand games after selling just like maybe a hundred kelts in which they screwed together in much more of a homebrew way. And it's just, again, I just think that's what's going to hit these guys. And people will say, hey, Canada, that's being negative. I'm not saying this is toxic, I've been covering this hobby for so many years. I've seen the way this story ends and it never ends with the company having a miraculous turnaround and then seeing all this profit. And again if the economy keeps dipping the way it's dipping and people start tightening their belts, the orders are not going to come in for all those other additions they need to sell to make up for all the burn that happened just getting these mermaid additions on the line. It's a very inconvenient truth but manufacturing is the recession J.F. B. K. L. S. B. T. S. A. V. S. A. V. V. S. V. V. V. V. V. V. V. V. V. V. V. V. V. V. The game's sloppy launch and now we've got this and plus the delay. I think the hype surrounding Cactus Canyon remake is just gone. Like it's just gone. Like they did it all wrong. They showed the game too early. They didn't have all the parts. The games weren't on the line. And CGC's smart enough to know that that's not how you do it. And I'm not sure why they did it this way. This isn't like a movie license in which the license holder was The game was making sure you got out before Christmas. It's an old game, Cactus Canyon. They should have waited to TPF to pull the veil off of this game in the right way and they didn't. And I'm just, that's it. I'm not even going to say anything else. You just have a long wait. And again, I don't think this game is going to be one of these $15,000 games. I don't. I really think people that ran at the LEs right away and spent a lot more on one are going to be kicking themselves. I don't think this is going to be the most sought after game by CGC. All right, let's go on to American Pinball and Legends of Valhalla another company again where I just think there's no hype. There's no excitement. There's no conversation Nobody's unboxing Legends of Valhalla and just saying how amazing it is because deep down they know it's not an amazing pin. It's an okay pin It's a $6,500 pin and and everybody knows that it's a $6,500 pin There is no reason why Legends of Valhalla should be so much more than Hot Wheels $2,000 more than Hot Wheels. Why there's not much in it The game is just whatever and we've been seeing that game for years. I'm sorry, but I'm just getting to the point now where if you're going to be in the pinball industry, you got to put magic in a box or just just don't bother like there's just so many games out there that I could go by. I don't even know how you wake up on any given day and say I've got $8,700 and I want to buy a great pinball machine. You end up here. So American pinball is another company where it's like I think David Fix needs to hire Kaneda. I think he needs to hire I think he thinks he gets it. I think he thinks this is the answer. I think that one day of the Hollis sales I think he was a little like overzealous on that day and I think bumping the number up to 500 was a mistake. I think they're probably realizing that now because there is no way distributors sold all 500. They haven't made all 500. They haven't even made I think 50 games by now and they're another company where like production is just not happening fast enough. If you're David Fix and And you were lucky enough to get 500 orders for Valhalla. Man, you need to build those games in like two, three months. You need to get them out and get on with it because the more you make people wait for Valhalla, the more people are gonna say, I don't know. It's the kind of game where you don't want more time to think about it. You need to get people when they had the FOMO. And I think he missed that window. And I'm not sure what's happening at AP. I'm not even sure when Dennis Nordman's game is gonna be shown, but it's just another company I think all these pinball companies that have manufacturing down but are losing their fandom, I think Spooky's losing its fandom and so is American Pinball, but both companies have manufacturing figured out. I think the same is true of CGC. These three companies, they're the most painful to me because you've figured out the hardest thing to do which is manufacture pinball, put it in a box in a quality way and get it to people and you're messing everything else up. You've figured out the hard part. Now you're messing up the easy part which is just pick a theme people want, design it in a way that's fun, make it magical, put moments in the game, code it in a way that is magical. That stuff can always be adjusted once you'veffie Ontagio Simon, Many About Sinescript Peter Black, Alonzo Fi, Nancy Ram возду Brian Glass, David V havia, Gary Hellouz, Leder ETo, Erich Better than the wrong button, Let's clean up, and turn to the killer one, Un squash whatever, saviour, be sure to next up is The communion, Girls on a Sting of purealanic rude girl or god, is the friend of all, bald,últ modeling제로ardtriple Here is an ever-changing Unknown what the heck...��arz transportation começ frolved está cuando de para tr持kos segure cai I think it's silly when people are spending $15,000 on all these SternLEs and premiums and pros. It's dumb. It's a pinball machine, people. And as I look at all these modern pinball machines and I say like, okay, so if I take a machine and I ask you to tell me what's the magical moment in this game, and I bet on half of these pinball machines, you can't even pinpoint a single magical moment, something that you would grab someone and say, you've got to see when this pinball machine does this. The sad part is like oh it's got flow, oh you know this and that and like when you go play the games with the magical moments and the magical mechs and the magical experiences you go back to these newer games and you're looking at all them with rose colored glasses especially the fact that these games are so expensive medieval madness was 1700 bucks when it came out people 1700 bucks. This has been Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. Thank you everybody for being a club member. We'll be back with more shows later. Subtitles by the Amara.org community

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