# Ep 16: The Man of Many Hats, Josh Sharpe

**Source:** LoserKid Pinball Podcast  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2019-08-25  
**Duration:** 54m 56s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://zencastr.com/z/yG25J33J

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## Analysis

Josh Sharpe, IFPA founder and administrator, discusses his multi-faceted roles managing the IFPA (72,000+ members), working at Raw Thrills, and competing in pinball. The conversation covers growing competitive pinball through community engagement, the Stern Army program (200 locations), operator education, and challenges in maintaining location-based pinball. Sharpe emphasizes that pinball's survival depends on attracting new players beyond current aging enthusiasts and leveraging community-driven support for machine maintenance.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] IFPA currently has 72,480 members — _Josh Sharpe states the exact membership count during discussion about IFPA growth_
- [HIGH] Josh Sharpe spends approximately 20 hours per week on IFPA administration, a consistent level for a long time — _Direct statement by Sharpe on time allocation to IFPA work_
- [HIGH] Stern Army program has grown to approximately 200 members/locations worldwide — _Josh Sharpe discusses approaching 200 Stern Army members as of interview date_
- [HIGH] Pinball industry cannot survive long-term relying only on 1990s generation enthusiasts with discretionary income — _Josh Sharpe references agreement with Gary Stern on this sustainability concern_
- [HIGH] Betson (distributor) runs service workshops tied to trade shows to train operators on equipment maintenance — _Sharpe discusses Betson's educational approach to operator training nationwide_
- [HIGH] Josh Sharpe won both IFPA and PAPA 2020 championships — _Scott Larson's introduction states Sharpe is 'the first person to win both the IFPA and PAPA 2020'_

### Notable Quotes

> "My default is I neglect my family. That's the first thing to go."
> — **Josh Sharpe**, early in interview
> _Humorous but revealing comment about prioritization of multiple roles; sets tone for discussion of work-life balance_

> "I've been telling myself that I'm going to be 6'6 and be able to dunk a basketball, and eventually it will happen. Yeah, at least yours is achievable. Mine's not really remotely achievable."
> — **Josh Roop and Josh Sharpe**, opening exchange
> _Establishes rapport and humorous tone with recurring joke about manifestation_

> "The pinball player base is one of the most awesome groups of people that are willing to put in the time and effort to keep a location's games running."
> — **Josh Sharpe**, mid-interview
> _Key insight on community-driven pinball ecosystem; contrasts pinball with other coin-op games requiring manufacturer support_

> "If you want a place to play, let's work together... pinball has going for it that even raw thrills games don't is there's a the stern's tagline is is is it's new money coming into an establishment."
> — **Josh Sharpe**, mid-interview
> _Core strategic position on pinball's business value proposition versus arcade competitors_

> "The industry won't survive beyond the people that found pinball in the 90s and have discretionary income now to become home collectors outside of their kids. It's dead."
> — **Josh Sharpe (quoting Gary Stern)**, late interview
> _Critical statement on industry sustainability challenge; identifies generational pipeline as existential issue_

> "It's the high of of trying to do something and accomplish something on that play field when you you know limited to the three balls that you have the three bullets you have in the gun."
> — **Josh Sharpe**, mid-interview
> _Describes competitive pinball appeal transcending individual game quality_

> "Pinball really can sell the fact that if you have a dedicated group of machines here that are kept in working condition, there's a community and through the IFPA, a chance to connect to that community to really draw people into your establishment."
> — **Josh Sharpe**, mid-interview
> _Articulates IFPA's value proposition for location operators as community connector_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Josh Sharpe | person | IFPA founder/administrator, Raw Thrills employee, competitive pinball player; manages ~72,000 IFPA members, spends ~20 hrs/week on IFPA work, won both IFPA and PAPA 2020 championships |
| Josh Roop | person | Co-host of Loser Kid Pinball Podcast; conducting interview with Sharpe |
| Scott Larson | person | Co-host of Loser Kid Pinball Podcast; introduces Josh Sharpe and participates in interview |
| IFPA | organization | International Federation of Pinball Administrators; manages competitive pinball rankings and tournaments; 72,480 members as of interview |
| Stern Pinball | company | Major pinball manufacturer; Sharpe discusses Stern Army community program (200 locations) and Gary Stern's perspective on industry sustainability |
| Raw Thrills | company | Arcade game manufacturer where Sharpe works; produces games beyond pinball |
| Stern Army | organization | Community volunteer program under Stern Pinball; ~200 members providing local support for pinball locations; started end of 2016 |
| Betson | company | Pinball distributor running service workshops at trade shows; has dozen+ offices nationwide providing operator training |
| Gary Stern | person | Stern Pinball leader whose perspective on industry sustainability is cited by Sharpe |
| Pinball Expo | event | Major annual pinball convention held in Chicago, mid-October; Sharpe discusses scheduling conflict preventing attendance |
| Flipper Spiel | event | Las Vegas pinball competition event; helped Loser Kid Podcast last two years; hosted by Adam |
| PAPA | organization | Competitive pinball circuit; Sharpe won PAPA 2020 championship |
| Pinberg | event | Major pinball tournament event with diverse game selection; requires knowledge of multiple game styles/eras |
| Dave & Buster's | company | Entertainment venue chain; Stern games tested there with limited success in drawing new players |
| Jeff Rivera | person | Podcast host (Pinball Podcast) who owns a Genie machine that Sharpe wanted to acquire |

### Topics

- **Primary:** IFPA administration and growth, Community-driven pinball ecosystem sustainability, Location/operator pinball maintenance and support, Generational pinball player pipeline and industry longevity, Stern Army program expansion and community volunteering
- **Secondary:** Competitive pinball appeal and tournament structures, Pinball home collecting and acquisition strategy, Pre-1976 (EM-era) pinball machines

### Sentiment

**Positive** (0.75) — Sharpe expresses genuine passion for growing pinball and confidence in community support, despite acknowledging vocal criticism. Tone is optimistic about Stern Army and IFPA impact despite logistical challenges. Some concern expressed about industry sustainability without new player pipeline, but framed as solvable through community engagement.

### Signals

- **[business_signal]** Long-term pinball industry sustainability threatened by aging enthusiast base without effective new player acquisition mechanism (confidence: high) — Sharpe quotes Gary Stern: 'The industry won't survive beyond the people that found pinball in the 90s and have discretionary income now to become home collectors outside of their kids. It's dead.'
- **[community_signal]** Betson distributor running systematic operator education workshops at trade shows; multi-tier knowledge dissemination from manufacturers to operators (confidence: high) — Sharpe explains Betson's model: 'they run a ton of service workshops, usually tied into trade shows... Betson's dozen plus offices around the country can do those things out of each of their offices'
- **[community_signal]** Stern Army program reaching ~200 volunteer locations worldwide, demonstrating grassroots community commitment to supporting location-based pinball (confidence: high) — Josh Sharpe states 'we're approaching 200 army members you know worldwide... 200 volunteers that are not getting paid to really we're leveraging their own best interest in wanting a place to play'
- **[market_signal]** Pinball discovery narrative: new players finding pinball through rediscovery of 'magic trick' 3D gameplay under glass; creates viral word-of-mouth growth potential (confidence: medium) — Sharpe describes: 'the whole 3d world under glass thing is like a magic trick to people who really have no idea what pinball is... there's the ability now for for true rediscovery of of pinball by people'
- **[event_signal]** Pinball Expo (Chicago, mid-October) established as critical industry event; Josh Sharpe unable to attend due to school/professional conference scheduling conflict (confidence: medium) — Sharpe explains conflict: 'that week in October is the only week when anything is done... my schools get out for that weekend... my professional organization... they always have their annual conference'
- **[market_signal]** Pinball's value proposition as 'new money' venue differentiator versus arcade competitors; can attract dedicated community without manufacturer incentives (confidence: high) — Sharpe emphasizes pinball uniqueness: 'people who are rabid pinball people will seek out pinball... there's a chance to connect to that community to really draw people into your establishment that literally will not go there the whole year'
- **[community_signal]** Josh Sharpe manages dual roles at IFPA and Raw Thrills while competing competitively; maintains ~20 hrs/week IFPA commitment through delegation and phase-based prioritization (confidence: high) — Direct statement: 'The IFPA workload... it's probably i don't know 20 hours a week and it's been 20 hours a week for a long time so anytime that it pushes to more than that i find find someone to help fill those hours'
- **[technology_signal]** Operator education gap: many location staff lack diagnostic and repair skills; pinball requires more community-driven maintenance support than coin-op arcade games (confidence: high) — Sharpe notes pinball needs 'the community's involvement... pinball being able to work on location needs the community's help of players and enthusiasts far more than any other coin-op game'

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## Transcript

 Okay, disclaimer before we start the show. Our typical recording process was not working, so we had to go to our backup recording process, which somewhat worked. So, I wasn't able to edit this down like we typically do for a Loser Kid Pinball podcast, so I'm going to just apologize right now if there's bumps and pops and stuff like that that we usually don't have in the show. I know that we're not 100% professional, but this is going to be a very rough cut, raw interview that we did. So please enjoy. Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. I am Josh Roop with my co-captain Scott Larson as usual. Scott, will you please introduce our very special guest for today? Well, today we have the legendary 2020 IFPA North American Pinball Championship current leader and also the first person to win both the IFPA and PAPA 2020, Josh Sharpe. I'm going to keep that recording. If you could send me an audio file of that, I'll just put those in my headphones while I'm playing and just repeat that on loop over and over again. It's on a mantra. That's how it works, right? You say it enough and it will become true. Exactly, because I've been telling myself that I'm going to be 6'6 and be able to dunk a basketball, and eventually it will happen. Yeah, at least yours is achievable. Mine's not really remotely achievable. I'm proving that mine's not too achievable either. Don't worry. So Josh, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for slumming up with us. My pleasure. I'm assuming you're just doing it for the free hats we're giving away. I was insanely jealous watching, you know, Elwin walk around with his hat. I'm like, how do I get one of those? I think you've got to go on the podcast, man. That's about it. Okay, I think my favorite, though, is really we did these for fun. Josh made this great hat, and he said, what do you think? I was like, great. So we just started sending them out to people, and especially people who are on the podcast. And I'm not kidding. When Keith did his reveal stream and also around walking around Pinberg, I kept getting all these pictures of him just walking around in Texas. Like, dude, he's wearing your hat. Like, wow. Time to open up that Web store of your dreams. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. He must have run out of hats if he decided that ours is the go to hat. anyway uh so josh what is new with you what's going on with you and pinball that you were in the post pinberg hiatus and uh now what's on the what's on the future for us what are we looking forward to in pinball man that's a wide that's a wide berth question for me what is it it's pushing labor day i am waiting for pinball expo which is my next chance to not win something mid-october you can still shoot for second it's good you know what expo is not a major so it's all bets are off i can actually take that one down there you go you can roll that one Yeah, we got asked if we were interested in coming out to Expo. And, man, I swear that that week in October is the only week when anything is done because we have – it's our schools get out for that weekend, and so everybody takes time off. Also, my professional organization, that's the weekend they always have their annual conference. And so people are trying to get off for that. And so it is impossible for me to get that off, considering I do the schedule and it would look really fast after everything was set up. It was like, you know what, guys, I'm going to take some time off. Why? I'm going to go to a little pinball convention. So why don't you just take care of all that stuff and get back to me? So one of those things, I'm going to go visit a children's hospital in the Chicago area and maybe check out this pinball event while I'm out there. Absolutely. Something like that. Doing it for the kids. No, I totally get it. Josh, you are a man of very many different hats. You've got to tell me, how do you do it? How do you balance IFPA, Raw Thrills, and your family all at the same time? Well, my default is I neglect my family. That's the first thing to go. As you should. I don't know. I mean, over the years, I've certainly gotten help. The IFPA workload, you know, 13 years ago compared to now is a vastly different level of attention that's needed. so there's there's more people helping me out now to sort of keep the time the time that i put into ifpa week to week it's probably i don't know 20 hours a week and it's been 20 hours a week for a long time so anytime that it pushes to more than that i find find someone to help fill those hours so i don't know between that and uh and work and life it just works itself out i'll go through phases where I may be able to get a little bit of the IFPA stuff done here at work when it's slower. I go through phases where I'm at home and instead of watching a TV show with my wife, it's on in the background while I'm hammering on the laptop trying to do some stuff. But it ebbs and flows. It ebbs and flows. So with the IFPA, in many ways, I understand You're passionate about this. You're doing something to grow competitive pinball and keep everything alive. At some point, does it does it feel like it's still worth it? Because I really from the background, I look at everything you do for for nothing or penny pennies or whatever. And I think, man, I don't know if I could keep maintaining that all much. All the criticism every time you try to put something out there. What do you mean criticism? I mean praise, praise. But no, it's just at some point I would look at the entire community and say, are you guys kidding me? Do you have any idea what I'm doing for you? I don't know. How do you not just give everybody the double finger? I think like what I feel from the community is I do feel that level of appreciation more than I feel that the level of you know things I can't say on your podcast because it's family friendly but for me like I mean this all started because I'm also a player so a lot of the things that I would put my time into doing like even like creating the original ranking system was like i wonder where i would rank in the world on this so for me there was a lot of like selfish rewards for putting in this work and and a lot of that is still you know drives me like i mean i still try to compete at a high level depending on the event and not nearly as often but uh you know i'm still interested in the sport day to day like i think it will get harder i mean i imagine if i look at where my dad is and and and you know 30 years later if if i'm not playing at a high level or playing even nearly as much as i am now i'm not sure you know where that level of interest will be but for now it's not something i have to worry about right okay that's fair and you know haters gonna hate man that that that stuff never bothers me it's uh you grow a thick skin after you've made 1100 changes to a system over the last decade yeah it's it just seems that there there are more people taking from the system or benefiting from the system than actually putting in so i i appreciate everything you're doing uh it's just it really i i don't think i could say that positive, given all the criticism. It seems that the criticism is probably heavier than the praise, but I'm sure the praise is in the background. It just doesn't. It's not reality. Yeah, it's it works out enough that. Yeah, believe me, the I think they call that the vocal minority. Yeah. So I'd probably insert something else. It truly is the vocal minority, though, with respect to all the feedback that I get. So So I feel great that I'm not even close to thinking that the things that we're doing aren't positive just based on outside of my own thoughts but based on the feedback we're getting. Yeah, that's good. Well, it's probably easy to take what the minority of the hobby says because there's only a handful of them compared to what, 50,000, 60,000 people in the IFPA right now? Right, something like that. Let's see. How many players are we at now? 72 to 48. I kind of wonder where I am. I haven't competed in a long time, so I'm probably down to 50,000 or something. That means you can move – easier to move up. Easier to move up. That's right. No way to go but up. So with that, when you grow sports, I know you've talked about it before, and I completely agree with you. In order to get a sport to grow, then you need to have exposure. And so whether or not that's darts on ESPN or anything like that on the Ocho, there's two things. One, people need to be exposed to it, and two, they need to find a place to go play. So it seems the challenge with growing pinball is finding places to play. I know the majority of people, when they find out that I have pinball machines, they always have the same response. It's, really? Huh. Do they make those anymore? Can I come and play? It's always the same thing, but it's so different because I grew up when you grew up. There were arcades everywhere, and that was when pinball started going to the sidelines, and Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, all those big games started coming on, and people still went out to get entertainment. Now, it's a different world for kids now, though, because they can stay home. They have streaming. They have games on their phone. They have games on their iPads. How do you still find that niche to get people, one, to leave the house and go to a place to play? And two, how do you encourage people to actually set up a place for them to play? Because it's certainly a lot easier to maintain an electronic game than it is to maintain a pinball machine. No doubt. I think the one thing that pinball has going for it is its uniqueness. And I think as you've had a generation, our generation, it kind of understood what pinball was. Even if we didn't play it, if we went to an arcade, you'd see it as you walked to the Mortal Kombat machine or the NBA Jam machine or whatever your game of choice was. like i think there's there's the ability now for for true rediscovery of of pinball by people and you get that magical like the whole the whole 3d world under glass thing is like a magic trick to people who really have no idea what pinball is so like i mean i've seen i've seen it myself in places, but the hardest thing is definitely keeping the games running. And a lot of that has to do with places that are willing to put pinball in their establishments. It's either committing to hiring staff that is aware of how to repair these things or partnering with outside tech support that is on some sort of regular schedule. And I know that there's locations here that go through that like like the the the staff techs just don't know how to fix the pins full stop so if something breaks it is just rotting until it's dead but they've they've partnered with a local tech in the area here who you know does weekly stops you know every tuesday to plays all the games you know the the community is really good at putting together lists of stuff that's that's not working properly so unfortunately i think you kind of need that community atmosphere in order for like the random person who's going to be walking into that place tonight for them to to be able to experience pinball for the first time on a game that's actually working so i think it's the community's involvement that can then you know support new people finding the game it's uh i agree with you it's tough yeah this is i i've been i've been trying to brainstorm to think about this because uh we have we had a chucky cheese here and the only uh it's hard for me to play on site i i have to have full disclosure it's hard for me to go to an arcade and play because the games are so hammered um i we went to chucky cheese for my kid birthday birthday and my wife said hey there a game over there You should go play And this was before we actually owned it, but it was Pirates of the Caribbean, the Stern one. And I went up, and man, it was – It was a blown-out city. Oh, it was bad. And the flipper was barely connected. It didn't have rubbers on. And half of the Tortuga area didn't even work. And I look at this and I think, why would anyone want to put money into this machine? Because it is so used, whereas the Pac-Man machine, I'm sure it's been ridden hard also, but they still will put five cents in or whatever they're doing for the Pac-Man machine. So that pivots to my next question is how as a pinball community can we develop a tech support? Because I'll use the car analogy. When my friend was a mechanic, he actually went to a training program from Toyota, and he went through and they taught him. They said, hey, these are the areas you need to know how to repair. These are how you do it. And then he was hired by Toyota. is there a way for the pinball community to have a way of you know stern putting out either educational things or ways of educating the new people to get into it because i know enough about pinball but i also know enough that if i really get uh deep down into a into a um under a play field i'm going to break something because i don't know where that next step is other than just haphazardly looking at different videos to try to find – well, because you need multiple things. You need to be able to diagnose the problem and fix the problem, which are two different skill sets. I mean I think that falls on the manufacturers, and it falls on the distributors of those manufacturers to deal with their customers. I know that Betson, who's our distributor, they run a ton of service workshops, usually tied into trade shows where there's a coming together of a lot of operators and customers that buy our games into one centrally located place. But Betson's dozen plus offices around the country can do those things out of each of their offices and service that community of operators in that area. And whether it's the team here at Raw Thrills educating bets and headquarters on the do's and don'ts and tips and tricks on how to keep Game X going, then bets and headquarters can then disseminate that information to their individual offices who can then share that information down. I think it's definitely a really important step in the process and probably the most popular one that breaks down. I think, you know, with respect to pinball being able to work on location, it needs the community's help of players and enthusiasts far more than any other coin-op game. and the good news is the the pinball player base i think is is one of the most awesome groups of uh people that are that are willing to put in the time and effort to keep a location's games running i know that you know again i can i can speak to my experience here with with our local monthly tournament but you know the ability for players of an event to offer their time to and and i did this in college when i ran a league i did it when i started running events back uh in the suburbs in chicago and i moved back home but you know if you give me the keys i'll fix stuff for free i just want these games working so i can enjoy them and then the ancillary benefit there is everyone else can enjoy them so you know and through there's a lot of what we're doing with stern and the stern army is uh you know trying to bring location pinball back and i think bringing people together to experience like competitive pinball in a social setting at most of the locations are like barcades that that there's something there that can work for operators to make money on pinball it just takes there's no like silver bullet you know for better or worse compared to a raw thrills game where it's like okay so take this game you take it out of the box you stick it in the corner and you're gonna make a bunch of money congratulations it's awesome unfortunately it's not that but there is a way to be successful at it you're right it is more of a community-based things and really what you said seems to be exactly why you're spearheading the ifpa is because you said, I want a place to play. And if I'm not doing it, no one else is doing what needs to be done. And so I'm going to develop the league and the setup to have a matrix to play. I guess it's the same thing with location. I'm not that guy, but I know there's enough people who say, hey, I want that Pirates to function and not be completely blown out. I'll change the first, I'll tighten the, you know, tighten everything up and make sure it works. but uh yeah i i think you're right we see it as you know we're approaching i think the stern army program started at the end of 16 and we're approaching 200 army members you know worldwide 200 army locations yeah and i mean that's 200 volunteers that are not getting paid to really we're leveraging their own best interest in wanting a place to play. It's 200 versions of the local version of me of like, hey, if you want a place to play, let's work together. And hopefully, what Zach and I would call it back in the day when we were talking to operators at trade shows is sell the dream. Sell them the dream of what they can have. And the one thing that pinball has going for it that even raw thrills games don't is is there's a the stern's tagline is is is it's new money coming into an establishment and that's absolutely true you know people who are rabid pinball people will seek out pinball and i think you know seeing the the p3 dave and buster's test like believe me it's it's tough for us to have a successful test at Dave & Buster's, even with our games. And we can't claim to be bringing in any new players. And Pinball really can sell the fact that, hey, if you have a dedicated group of machines here that are kept in working condition, there's a community and through the IFPA, a chance to connect to that community to really draw people into your establishment that literally will not go there the whole year and the only thing that will bring them in is this particular game and there's something special about that as a product there's not a lot of products that that really can pull in you know this outside demographic of player and and player leads to someone that you know eats and drinks inside the establishment you know etc good for business new money yeah the um the location here in utah that is is basically exactly what you said it's a um dan newman who's uh the local guy he he partnered with someone who he knew had a bar and he put all these machines in there and really that's the main place i go and there's no other reason for me to drive to salt lake city to go to a bar um because i i don't need to but i go there exactly Yeah, I go there because they have the games and they just got a Jurassic Park. So they're actually moving forward. It's like you work in the industry or something. You actually have thought these things out. Only all the time. Yes. Stuff that rattles into my brain all day, every day. It's important. I mean at some point, the pinball industry, I agree with Gary Stern. The industry won't survive beyond the people that found pinball in the 90s and have discretionary income now to become home collectors outside of their kids. It's dead. So you need to find the next people that will find it in the world who then 20 years later will be the next group of home collectors. You need to. The ecosystem has to continue that way. You're right. If you don't continue to feed the fire, you're right. It will die out. I will say the interesting thing about everything I've said about people finding out, oh, you're into pinball? One, did they make them? Oh, okay. Well, can I come play it? Every time they come play, within ten minutes, they turn to me and say, okay, so say I was – How much? They always do that. Yeah, how much? Yeah. Yeah. And I along the lines of like, you know, people's kids, really, it's it's it's a it's a broader example than people's kids. It's it's you become that tree trunk, right? Like anyone, anyone that's your branch, that's the only way pinball survives. And if it's left to the people like us as the tree trunks and anybody that we can find via our branches, it needs to be more than relying on the people who are in their 40s now collecting to leave a legacy that carries the sport and game forward. Yeah, and that's basically my story. My story is I actually never played pinball because I grew up and that's when – so I'm turning 45 this year. That's right when, like 1980, 1981, when the electronic game, that was the new thing. You could actually interact with something on the screen, and pinball just was pushed to the corner. And the funny thing is I wasn't really smart enough to figure it out. I was like, well, I don't want to play that because I'll lose my money too much. I'll go play this Donkey Kong, which will kill me in three seconds. so you know and and i guess this is before all the internet days and i didn't have someone who i'd go and was like man that guy's playing a long time on on one quarter or two quarters maybe i should figure out how to do that because it'll make my money go longer yeah i um yeah it's but so i didn't get into it until about five years ago and but then i love that nostalgic feel of the arcade and that's what i wanted to create in my house so yeah i i'm trying to figure out how to perpetuate the cycle because at some point you're right if we don't uh replenish the well it's going to die out at some point my kids will be if they don't get into it my my collection will be sold for pennies on the dollar after i die yeah to whoever they can get it get rid of it too as fast as they can. Yeah, that's actually funny. There was a meme out there that said, my greatest fear is me dying and my wife selling all my collection for what I told her I paid for it. No doubt. Yeah. Yeah, thankfully, we all have some friends who are like, hey, if something happens to me, contact them. I'm all over it, man. I'll give your wife half. All right. There you go. So let's play pretend. And I am a new guy to the hobby. I want to prepare for Pinburgh. And I come to you and say, you know what? I want to buy eight games. I want to put two sets of four together so I can get that Pinburgh skill. How would you construct those eight games or those two blocks? Wow. I mean, certainly the biggest thing is era diversity. Yep. making sure you have, you know, out of those eight, probably a small flipper game, probably Gottlieb's high hand, probably a game with, you know, four or five flippers, something with a side flipper, and then probably a basic fan layout, just to make sure you're you're giving yourself a chance to, I don't know, experience different geometries because you run into so many different geometries during the two days at Pinberg. So, I mean, as far as titles go, I mean, ultimately, I mean, that's what's so great about competitive pinball is, you know, even bad games, you know, quote unquote, bad games, when you put them in a competitive setting, every game's kind of awesome. so so even uh you know a game like like altoro or a game like popeye saves the earth or whatever like when you have to execute in in the moment you know the pressure of dealing with that it doesn't really matter what the game is it's it's it's the high of of trying to do something and accomplish something on that play field when you you know you limited to the three balls that you have the three bullets you have in the gun You have been to Flipper Spiel in Vegas right I have Yeah you have the chance They helped us the last two years. Yeah, yeah, which is great. Adam's great down there. Oh, he's amazing. I went down there when Don and Jeff did their 100th episode. So I was there, and we played a friendly competition. And there was one guy who, anytime you do it, and he would select this really obscure cocktail game. And I honestly can't remember what it was, but nobody could play it except for that dude. I don't think anybody would. Taking advantage, the home field advantage. Oh, absolutely. But it was such an interesting game, but you're right. I don't believe that that cocktail game would fit very well in someone's house. unless you have competition because no one cares to play it. It's not as fun if you're playing alone, but it's more fun if you're like, I don't care how crappy that is. I'm going to beat you at it. Yep, and that's like the spirit of competition. I mean at least for me growing up with a brother who was two years apart, we'd compete on anything. Who can run up the stairs the fastest when our parents were calling us up for bed? I see it with my kids now who, you know, they'll race upstairs. They'll race downstairs. Who could eat faster? I mean, it's unbelievable. It's kind of a big human thing, competition. So pinball is an excellent outlet for a competitive thing. Yeah, my trick is now, okay, who gets to brush their teeth the first? Right. And for some reason. Who's going to sleep by themselves the first? Please, guys, please. They haven't got to that point yet. But I will get them to who can brush their teeth the first. I'll try that tonight. There you go. And that's usually before you pick out the fake garbage can to throw away the toys that they're not going to put away. So what was your last purchase? What did you get? My last purchase. Well, I'm mid-purchase right now. Should I count that? Sure. I'm picking up a spirit of 76 tomorrow. Ooh. How do you find, like most of the stuff that I find is, is still random Craigslist. Let go. The, those kind of, uh, those kinds of random finds where, uh, there's still deals. There's still deals that you can't pass up. So the, the game before that, I think a couple of weeks ago, I bought a Bali Aladdin's castle. Okay. And, It popped up and it was $100. There's not many questions to ask. You just type back like, I'll take it. Am I the first one? I'll take it. And it was like, yeah, it's yours. Okay, I guess I'm getting an Aladdin's Castle. Dad, is that game any good? Is it good? Well, I just did that recently where there was a laser ball that came up. And I said, does it work? And they said, yeah. And I said, okay, I'll take it. And they delivered it to my, they delivered it here. And so I go out and I plug it in and it doesn't credit up. Of course. Like, ah, and it was one of those where they're, they are trying to sell it on behalf of their neighbor who's, you know, moving away for a few years. Oh yes. And so, you know, I just said, okay, fine, here's the $400. And so I kept it in my garage for about four months. And finally I said, you know what? I'm not going to fix this. I don't have time, so I just put it up. I was like, okay, who wants this for $400? Right, time to move it on. Pay it forward. But anyway, yeah, it is funny how some of those games, I really wanted to get it set up, but then a genie came available, and it's Jeff Rivera from the Pinball Podcast, and I've been telling him for years, dude, if you ever sell that, I get first tips. So I said, you know, I'd rather just sell that and buy the genie. as space becomes an issue with everyone in this hobby, the, the, the pickier you pick your year one gets. So I still have a little bit of room in, uh, in my current setup. So, so I'm all for, you know, buying a game. I'll, I'll clean it up with my seven year old and, and we'll see if it's any fun. And I've had some Craigslist, Craigslist finds over the years where, uh, where the, the game, I wasn't expecting to keep it for that long. I figured, you know, set it up, play it for a year or whatever. and move it on and and i've had some that were like you know this is pretty damn damn fun oh my god this is really good and games that i've had you know over a decade now what what what's your what's your favorite pre-76 game pre-76 so you know em era what's your favorite pre-em era current let's see i mean of the ones i have at home like i'm really enjoying my faces a lot that's a sonic okay because it just beats the crap out of me all the time and then one out of every 20 games i get a hold of it but uh air races surprisingly that that's the game that i got oh god i don't know 15 years ago that it was from one of my dad's friends at williams and it came in like pieces and then i put it back together and figured it was going to be and i don't know if you're familiar with the game but it's kind of like i'm not i'm looking it up right now okay so when you look it up it's it's pretty much just a bank a center bank of targets it's a lot like uh jack-in-the-box jumping jack from gottlieb which my dad had when i was growing up air races air Aces. Air Aces. Okay. Because I was looking at Air Aces and I thought, that's like 1937. Not that old. I'd always assume that Air Aces was going to be a lesser version of Jumping Jack, Jack in the Box. Oh, yeah. Oh, that looks like death. After I set it up, it's a ton of fun and better than Jumping Jack. I think. So it's stayed in the collection. It's certainly not the first man out when I have to pick off one to sell. Yeah. Each one of those shots has to end. It looks like a centered range is waiting to happen. And you have those midget side flippers. You really want to – you raise your bonus by the jet bumpers. Okay. And so you're avoiding the target bank a lot or trying to take, like, indirect shots rather than just like i'm just gonna shoot it right up the center like a machine gun yeah that'll kill you but uh now there's there's a fun part of that game where as you build your bonus it lights your extra ball and double bonus holes at the top and man balls love going in those saucers at the top when there's when they're not lit for anything and then once they pop on and they're lit i mean yeah shoot it up there seven eight times and it's just not fallen in and i think there there's a level of uh what i've come to appreciate now like the way pinball design was back then compared to now you know with most games if you if today if you make a shot successfully you're going to get paid off for that shot yeah and in the olden days you sort of like it was less about shot making and more about you you'd make the shot into an area that you were trying to aim for and then like the game had to help you you know there wasn't like a guarantee of like well if i shoot that ramp it gives me the ramp it's like if i and i'm on air races if i shoot you know around the outside up to the top you know i've done what i needed to do as a player like is the game going to pay me off or not and the anticipation of whether that's going to happen or not is a feeling that you don't really get today in modern pinball that i think is like amazing the more that i appreciate sort of that previous generation of design philosophy yeah yeah it's it in many ways they were taking taking advantage of the limitations of the era in that they couldn't do crazy ramps they couldn't do all this stuff and so it's more of i'm putting the ball in the position and there's a chance it may actually go somewhere yep as as opposed to you know Keith Elwin taking a laser shot at something and saying well i can just hit that yeah there was a a great gift in the finals of pinberg last year on uh god i can't remember the game but elwynn was playing on it and he he had to have like this final target down for double bonus or whatever and the only way to do it was literally to like you you couldn't guarantee that you were gonna make it if you if you made the shot you sort of had to throw it off a rubber on the side of the play field and have it like ricochet up and sort of hope that it clipped it and he totally did it that was just like that's what that era of pinball is all about yeah well speaking of elwyn did you see when he was playing metallica this year how he had a ball cradled on the right flipper he live caught and shot a ball off the right flipper and left the ball cradled on the flipper yeah i can't explain that yeah that's that's when i basically looked at and said i i have no idea how he did that but that was the most cool that was the coolest yeah yep yeah i i can't tell you how many times i brought that up because i just watched that and he's like wait did did i just see that did that really happen special physics just for him yeah well i think that's how it is okay so air aces all right so solid state favorite game right now solid state well solid state favorite game of all time is my my cyclops game sure that's my baby okay all right all right and then you're getting to the dmd era dmd let's see probably uh it's tough i guess it's not tough like walking dead i don't consider walking dead like that when i think dmd i think like that williams era but like sure technically dmd i think walking dead is the greatest okay yeah it's uh i i i'm not good enough to actually play that game very well but that's actually neither am i and that's part of the reason why i like it yeah the for me it's it's tough for uh i'm at the point where i i i need to i need to Part of feeling challenged by a game is part of the allure to me these days. Sure. And it scares my kids to death. So that's a bonus. Yeah. Yeah. The funny thing is I looked at – well, it was the same thing. We had a local Metallica came up, and I turned to my wife and was like, hey, on a scale of 1 to 10, how interested are you in owning a Metallica machine? I probably should have started better. But she said, can the scale go negative? And I was like, oh, okay. I guess I won't get that. But I really like it. It's like, if the scale goes negative, does that help me take this home? Is that good? Yeah, yeah. We can totally do that. Is one, like, awesome? Yeah, no. I totally it's that game is it's it's one of those where if you are not precise, you're going to get killed. And even if you are precise, you're going to get killed. Yeah, it's brutal. And, you know, you end up there's what's great is the loss of the potential of what was just ahead of you is usually so great that it just it hurts so much. yeah and and that's if you're a masochist like i am like those are great moments where where it's like oh man oh i was you know four shots away from something incredible and now it's all over and it urges me to want to play again and do it again now do you have the pro or the premium i have the premium okay walker bombs for the win okay bombs for the win you also like the crossbow shot that that doesn't matter doesn't matter like it's fine but the the walker bombs add a level to strategy in that game that i think is awesome okay how much how much overlap is your collection with zach and your dad i guess all three that's a good so i've definitely maybe it's my subconscious but i've definitely been my my collection of my dad's collection overlaps a lot now so we And as I joke with Zach, the fight over who's going to get my dad's games is becoming less of a fight if I own all of my dad's games already. I'll just have to argue with Zach. Hey, you know what? Dad's is in better shape than mine. You can have mine. I'm taking Dad's. I think Zach and I both have a Cyclops, as does my dad. All three of us have a Sharpshooter Zach and I both have a Maiden Zach and I both have a walking dead my dad and i both have a medieval we both have an adams family we both have a twilight zone all three of us have a jumping jack that might be it my dad is a pin bot i have a jack bot maybe that's that's close close but no cigar yeah i jackpot looks a lot more fun i i i have a hard time getting into pin bob but jackpot looks like a lot more fun i agree i agree yeah it's uh yeah the the art the you know the dmd really does change that game which is it's just weird but it it does and the rule yeah it's just a better rules package for uh for tournament play especially Yeah. All right. So in the last five years, so Walking Dead was five years ago. Okay. Last five years, favorite game. Too early for Jurassic Park? Probably too early, right? Maybe. Okay. You know what? You can put that as potential. Maybe. There you go. Okay. It's actually true. When I saw that, and I still haven't got up and played it, but Josh and I were talking back and forth, and we were talking with Marty, and we said, you know, It really is a perfect game for me. Actually, Maiden is a perfect game for me because I grew up with Iron Maiden, and I would love to have an Iron Maiden machine. I think my wife would probably give me the Metallica vote on that one. But I think she would love me. It's Maiden for me. It's Maiden for me. Yeah. It's awesome. And my kids love it because the first thing I did when I opened it up in the basement was I made up that the Eddie character is hilarious. Yeah. And somehow they bought that. So somehow I changed the mood of the perception of the game as they were finding Eddies around the play field. It's like, isn't he funny? He dresses up in different costumes. What a wacky guy. This is Halloween. Who's that devil beast guy over there? It's like, don't worry about him. He's the bad guy. But Eddie's going to beat him up, man. It's so fun. They love it. Both of my kids will play it. I mean, they won't even look at The Walking Dead, but they'll play Maiden, so that's good. Nice. Okay. Is it the pro or premium? It is the premium. Okay. Yeah, and I really would love to get that in my house. I guess a few things need to go. I'm such a hoarder, though, it's hard for me to actually look at a game and say it's time for me to sell it on. It's tough. I just sold three games, and it's tough to ever see anything go. Yeah. So do you usually sell them to friends, or how do you usually sell them? It's a mix and match. Like, normally I'll offer them up to, like, one of my best friends who's actually still in Champaign. he uh he's probably bought 10 games from me over the past whatever so if he has something that it's like hey man i'll take that i'll usually feed him that and and some of the other games you know as he's running out of space that he's not interested in i'll do the uh the pin side facebook listing and uh and see what goes and ultimately a lot of the times the people that show up are people that i end up knowing anyway so yeah it works itself out yeah so how big is your collection right now it is 29 with spirit of so tomorrow would be adding number 30 at the moment how big is your basement it can hold will my wife listen to this podcast probably not yeah yeah because i'm sure your wife's a big fan it can hold like 33 if i don't touch the rooms that she we have like a guest room down there and like a storage room for you know all the bins of christmas decorations and easter decorations and whatever there's probably another eight to ten if i if i convince her like hey you know a good place to the for those christmas bins is under all these games that are out in the main room i i'm with you on that you know who doesn't sleep down here nobody why don't we do an air mattress and we can put four games in here yeah yeah i'm sure that fight will come at some point yeah we have two guest bedrooms downstairs and i would love uh to fill them with fin balls but right yeah we have an office downstairs i never used that maybe i can just do that i i thought about putting one in the bedroom but she said no it's a it's a pretty nice basement though i know that like as we go around and look at houses with the realtor I'm sure found me hilarious because I would always just go directly to the basement first. And if my wife really liked the house because she would typically go and look first before she dragged me out. If she really liked it, she would not allow me to go into the basement until she showed me the rest of the house first. Yeah, I actually, when we were looking at, we were thinking of building a house and I actually messaged you a few years ago and I was like, hey, just wondering And actually, this is funny because this is really the first time we've ever talked. Yeah. But you're very approachable, and I sent you a message on Facebook. I said, so if I were building a house, how many – how did I need to wire the basement per circuit breaker? Oh, yeah. So, yeah. Well, we decided not to build, so we're just kind of stuck in our house. But actually, it still works out pretty well. We have good power. It's a necessity. Good power is a necessity. Yeah. Hey guys, really quickly Oh hey, Josh is still here Yeah sorry, I've been back and forth and up and down But I wanted to ask We are coming up on the hour mark And I wanted to see if you guys Had anything else to add to the conversation Or there's a certain subject you want to hit Before we wrap this up What else was on those list of questions that we didn't get to It's always It is like every interview I've done It makes me feel like my dad Where you get a list of like 11 questions And then you're hours up after 3 of them Yeah. No, it's – well, okay. I will say nothing is more painful. I'm sure that Keith Elwin was the first interview we did, and he's such a nice guy, and we're still pretty rank amateurs. So we're talking to him, and then we got to the end. We're like, I still want to ask him questions. Right. Do you have any questions? What's your next game you're going to buy? What's your grail? What's your grail game? what's my the next game i'm gonna buy is a jurassic park premium yeah yeah that that's my next game too that looks like so much fun i i joke with with zach that like just man Keith Elwin guys it's it's ridiculous i think i joked with zach that if you had to like put a percentage on the chance that he would put a game out that wasn't excellent would you put that at zero percent i mean i might actually put it at zero percent isn't it crazy like you know it's i think that there's no one who lives a better pinball life than keith elwin because he's like you know what i i'm going to take a semi-retirement and by the way every time i come back i'm going to kick your butts right by playing the games and then you know what maybe i'll just design something that sounds fun well and if the play i know like even after playing the the whitewood it's like well i'll buy it because whatever rules he puts in there i mean it's freaking keith ellen so i mean he's going to like it and there isn't anything that he likes that i don't like so i'm in that's it no i i'm with you too i'm i'm actually there are games downstairs on my shopping block then I'm going to start parrying down and saying, okay, so I need a Jurassic Park. The game looks so much fun. I have a feeling every 18 months there's going to be like the, oh, God, what has to move? Because Keith's game is coming out. Yeah, it used to be. Okay, again, how great, how lucky, well, okay. How smart has Stern been in being able to find their designers? I mean it's crazy just the talent level that they have there just in their designers. And then they pick up Keith. They pick up Brian Eddy. Like what else – it's just – it seems kind of unfair that they have all of the great design. I mean there are – I'm not downplaying all the other designers. I mean Eric did a great job. Yeah, I can't wait to see Eric's number two. Oh, I know. No, it's – like those are great too, and I'm saying that's amazing. Scott Danesi's game is amazing. All these – in many ways, that's pretty awesome. Obviously Jersey Jack has Pat Lawler too. But it's just – it just seems that right now Stern is kind of the Yankees when it comes to designers. They don't have one guy. They don't have two guys. They have like five guys. It's a pretty deep bench. It's a pretty deep bench. Yeah, they're thinking, you know what? And also, George, I know you're running most of the company. Why don't you just design something? In your copious amounts of spare time. Yeah, and I will be the first person to say, when I first played Deadpool, I thought, man, I can't find any of these shots. I don't – like I must not – one, I must not be an amazing player. That's no news to anybody. But then I thought, once I started nailing that katana shot, I thought, okay, I want this game. This game is awesome. That shot is the most satisfying shot I've had in the last 10 years. So anyway. No doubt. Anyway, it's great. You know what? Thanks for coming on. I know that in many ways you probably get pulled off by a lot of people who just want to chat. And all the things that you do for pinball, including these small podcasts, you've always been very approachable. No, seriously. It's amazing that in many ways I look at – there are pinball celebrities and there are pinball ambassadors, and I can't think of many people that would fit the pinball ambassador role more than you. I appreciate it. You're not even working in the – you're certainly into pinball, but they're not even paying your salary. So how much – Somehow I found a job better than pinball, which I didn't think was possible, but very blessed, very blessed. No, well, in Raw Thrills, you're doing a great job with that, too. Obviously, they're taking over a lot of these amusement. They're picking up the void where a lot of arcades left. It's definitely, yeah, it's been a great time over here. And, you know, maybe I'll get into pinball at some point if this arcade dream ever dies out. But, yeah, it's nice to be able to have my cake and eat it, too. And obviously with Zach over at Stern and my dad doing some work for other companies, It's nice to stay connected to the pinball industry and talking with Zach, who literally has to deal with pinball eight hours a day every day. It's kind of nice. I feel like a grandparent to the industry where I can visit anytime I want. But if I want to go home, I can kind of just go home whenever I want to, like my parents do for my kids. So I feel like it's perfect. I'm not beholden to anything, but I can pick and choose and enjoy it at my own pace. So it's great. Yeah, you get to focus on the fun stuff. Absolutely. Yeah. You're right. It is the grandparents. It's not the, hey, go do your homework. It's, hey, see if I can spin you around. Yeah, candy? Who wants candy? Who wants candy? Thanks again, Josh, for taking time out of your busy schedule to come on our show. We really appreciate it, even though you had to deal with my technical difficulties through this whole show. I'm sorry. Your mic didn't record. yeah it stinks that my microphone didn't record the way that i wanted to but next time we'll make sure things are different no next time next time you guys can swap we'll do part two with with just you yeah this is the reason why he asked me he's like he asked me to be the co-host he's like you have a lot of useless things to say can you can i anyway thanks josh we're planning on we're going to try i can't uh like i said i can't make expo this year i would love to just call in sick so I'm an anesthesiologist. I work at a hospital. Okay. That's more important than Expo, for sure. Well, I think they would probably kill me if I just failed on them. But our plan is to come to Texas next year and hopefully Expo in another year. So maybe we'll see you at either of those places. Definitely, guys, and keep it up. The podcast is awesome. Keep it going. Okay. Thanks, Josh. Yep. Take care. Okay. See you. Well, that wraps it up for this episode of the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast, episode number 16. I appreciate everyone tuning in. I just wanted to do a quick wrap-up at the end of this episode. We do have the results from the Slam the Top 100 when we had Martin on the episode last episode, but we're going to save those results for the next show. And we did get some mail this time. We appreciate when you guys write in at LoserKidPinballPodcast at gmail.com. We're going to share those thoughts because it was on our topic of location pinball on how to make it more appealing to the general public. So we'll be discussing all that on our next episode. Thanks for tuning in.

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 18c20577-88c8-4860-beb1-e75391f814b0*