# We Are Pinball #52 "Triple Threat with Kaneda!"

**Source:** We Are Pinball (WAP)  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2026-02-02  
**Duration:** 90m 4s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/wap5/episodes/We-Are-Pinball-52-Triple-Threat-with-Kaneda-e3egmau

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## Analysis

We Are Pinball hosts discuss Stern's Pokemon game announcement, production delays across the industry (particularly Dutch Pinball's Back to the Future and Alice), American Pinball's new ownership and reported plans to remake classic Bally/Williams titles, and broader market concerns about pricing, licensing delays, and company execution. The conversation reveals skepticism about aggressive timelines, criticism of "licensure approval" delays as an excuse, and debate over whether Spooky should capitalize on secondary market demand by auctioning show games.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Pokemon Pinball is confirmed as an upcoming Stern release with early access planned for hosts — _Zach Sharp (Stern employee) promised early edition unboxing opportunity; Stern listening to the show_
- [MEDIUM] Back to the Future production is severely constrained; Dutch Pinball cannot make more than 350 games per year and has approximately 88 Super LE editions planned — _Host speculation based on Alice production analysis; rumor about 88 units mentioned as unconfirmed_
- [MEDIUM] Alice has topper supply chain issues with multiple vendors going out of business; estimated 35-50 units without toppers — _Host reported hearing these numbers from sources; Melvin cited as source for ~50 units_
- [MEDIUM] American Pinball's new owner (Brian Ronald) plans to release two Bally/Williams remake games and code updates for GTA and Oktoberfest by Q3/Q4 2026 — _Host interview reports; skepticism expressed about timeline feasibility given company history_
- [MEDIUM] Jack Danger did initial design on Pokemon but George Gomez mostly took over; Danger contributed initial ambitious concepts — _Hosts cite skeptic within organization; Gomez claimed he only did 'tidbits, adjustments'_
- [HIGH] Spooky is bringing 10-12 Beetlejuice games to Pinball at the Beach; these are pre-sold show games for customers who agreed to exhibition — _Direct discussion of Spooky's model; clarified as pre-sold units brought for show access_
- [MEDIUM] Secondary market Beetlejuice machines currently worth approximately $20,000 — _Host market observation; speculative pricing estimate_
- [MEDIUM] Pinside charging $35 to list used games for sale; one seller's listing was taken down and refund denied — _Host reported from Pinside community; specific incident mentioned but unverified_
- [MEDIUM] Winchester Mystery House is still in production sample phase; only 8-10 units built to date in U.S. locations — _Production status update from hosts; clarification of 'production sample' vs prototype definition_
- [HIGH] Cuphead pinball by American Pinball is cancelled; licensor retained all custom animations, art, and sounds — _Host confirmation; speculation that licensor may seek alternative manufacturer_

### Notable Quotes

> "The toilet's backed up. Licensure approval. This whole licensure approval is like I hate that. Those two words are what Stern hides behind that with everything now."
> — **Kaneda**, early
> _Critique of Stern's use of licensing delays as excuse for incomplete game launches_

> "They haven't seen the final code yet. So they're adding that stuff in. But again, games should be more long than it usually is at launch."
> — **Host**, early
> _Explanation for Pokemon delays; criticism of just-in-time licensing approach_

> "I've given up a lot of hope for that game to be honest... I looked at how alice rolled out oh how are they gonna handle back to the future they can't even make 350 games a year"
> — **Kaneda**, mid
> _Loss of confidence in Back to the Future based on Dutch Pinball's track record_

> "The only time it's okay is for example a company has been doing games for 10 years like spooky and they say this is december give us some money in january or february two months we will ship the games then it's okay everything else i want to say don't support it"
> — **Don**, mid
> _Position on pre-order deposits; trust only extended to established manufacturers_

> "Keep this you can get back to the future... Keep Alice you can get Raza... They should yeah that's gonna be the next move"
> — **Hosts**, mid
> _Speculation that Dutch Pinball will use Raza as prerequisite purchase to fund Back to the Future_

> "I saw on pin side a dude who's trying to flip a beetlejuice recently and he had to pay 35 you know this you have to pay 35 to robin to list a game for sale... and then robin took down the listing doesn't want people to even have the ability to scout a few sold that's crazy"
> — **Host**, mid
> _Controversy over Pinside moderation and listing fees; community sentiment shift_

> "Stern is basically already doing the scalping and baking that scalping price into all their LEs now at $13,000. And look how well that's worked out for them."
> — **Kaneda**, late
> _Criticism of Stern's pricing strategy vs. Spooky's market position_

> "If I'm Brian and Ron, buy Beetlejuice, buy an Evil Dead, get a couple Stern hits, This is what we need to beat. This is the market. This is what is selling for $10,000."
> — **Host**, late
> _Advice to American Pinball new ownership on competitive positioning vs. classic remakes_

> "It's not going to work. There's so much good pinball now that to reenter the market at a mediocre level with a high price, I don't care how much billions you made making LED road signs, you're in pinball now."
> — **Host**, late
> _Harsh assessment of American Pinball's strategy post-acquisition_

> "A good game's development cycle is closer to 18 months yeah so how did you figure out how to do it in six you didn't it's just easy to say"
> — **Host**, late
> _Skepticism of American Pinball CEO's aggressive Q3/Q4 timeline claims_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Stern Pinball | company | Major manufacturer; Pokemon Pinball announced with George Gomez/Jack Danger design; criticized for licensing delays, pricing strategy at $13K+ for LE games |
| George Gomez | person | Stern designer; reportedly primary designer on Pokemon after Jack Danger's initial concepts; history of quality work |
| Jack Danger | person | Stern designer; contributed initial ambitious design concepts to Pokemon; role minimized vs. Gomez's contribution |
| Pokemon Pinball | game | Stern's upcoming 2026 release; announced at Pinball at the Beach event; designed by Gomez/Danger; expected to have strong location appeal; potential Insider Connected regional collection feature discussed |
| Dutch Pinball | company | Struggling manufacturer; Back to the Future in perpetual development; Alice experiencing topper vendor issues; capacity constrained at ~350 units/year; reliability concerns with code and deadlines |
| Back to the Future | game | Dutch Pinball; decade+ development; complex multi-party licensing; approximately 88 Super LE editions rumored; severe production capacity constraints; hosts have largely given up hope |
| Alice's Adventures in Wonderland | game | Dutch Pinball; experiencing topper supply chain failures; estimated 35-50 units shipping without toppers; toppers from multiple vendors going out of business; production sample phase ongoing |
| Spooky Pinball | company | Premium boutique manufacturer; only company with strong trust for pre-orders; Beetlejuice secondary market at ~$20K; planning small price increase (~$500); bringing 10-12 show games to Pinball at the Beach; considering premium VIP access model |
| Beetlejuice | game | Spooky Pinball; sold out 30 minutes after launch; secondary market value ~$20K; 10-12 show game units coming to Pinball at the Beach as pre-sold exhibition machines |
| American Pinball | company | Newly acquired by Brian Ronald (J.B. Vincent LP); plans two Bally/Williams remakes by Q3/Q4 2026; code updates for GTA and Oktoberfest promised; aggressive timelines questioned; Cuphead cancelled; brand reputation damaged; CEO has stated licensing plans for upcoming years |
| Brian Ronald | person | New owner of American Pinball (J.B. Vincent LP); making production announcements and interviews; planning Bally/Williams remakes and aggressive release timelines |
| Cuphead | game | American Pinball project; cancelled; licensor retained all custom animations, art, sounds; speculation that licensor may seek alternative manufacturer |
| Winchester Mystery House | game | Barrels of Fun; revealed October 2025; production sample phase; only 8-10 units built to date; hosts clarified difference between prototype and production sample |
| Raza (Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland) | game | John Papaduke/Deep Root; transitioning to Dutch Pinball; Steve Bowden handling code; hosts skeptical of sales potential given Raza may serve as prerequisite to access Back to the Future |
| Zach Sharp | person | Stern Pinball employee; extended invitation to Pinball at the Beach; promised early Pokemon access for hosts; facilitated media engagement |
| Kaneda | person | Co-host of We Are Pinball; prominent industry skeptic; critical of Stern's delays, pricing, licensing excuses; defends Spooky's position |
| Pinball at the Beach | event | Upcoming event where Stern will unveil Pokemon and Spooky will bring Beetlejuice show games; media access and creator invitations controversial due to NDA restrictions and Pokemon sharing incident |
| Melvin | person | Source cited for Alice topper issues; heard ~50 units without toppers; knowledge of production problems |
| Steve Bowden | person | Code designer on Raza (Deep Root/Dutch Pinball); hosts express concern about code quality and gameplay similarity to previous iterations |
| Pinside | organization | Online pinball community forum; charging $35 listing fees; controversial moderation decision to remove game sale listing and deny refund; community sentiment negative |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Licensing and regulatory delays as excuse for incomplete launches, Production capacity constraints across boutique manufacturers, Secondary market pricing and scalping dynamics, American Pinball's new ownership and strategic direction, Stern's pricing strategy and market reception, Pokemon Pinball announcement and competitive analysis, Dutch Pinball's reliability and delivery track record
- **Secondary:** Spooky Pinball's market position and premium access model

### Sentiment

**Negative** (-0.62) — Dominant tone of skepticism and criticism toward industry practices: licensing excuses, production delays, pricing models, and American Pinball's strategy. Qualified optimism for Pokemon's location appeal and Spooky's market position, but overall pessimism about manufacturer reliability and pricing sustainability.

### Signals

- **[business_signal]** American Pinball's new ownership pursuing classic Bally/Williams remakes despite market showing limited demand; strategy perceived as backward-looking rather than forward-focused (confidence: high) — Host criticism of remake approach; comparison to failed Funhouse 2.0 sales; recommendation to focus on contemporary hits like Beetlejuice/Evil Dead instead
- **[community_signal]** Pinside charging $35 listing fees and refusing refunds after removing game sale listings; community sentiment negative; Robin (Pinside operator) restricting secondary market visibility (confidence: medium) — Specific incident reported; host criticism of practice; characterization as 'crazy'
- **[competitive_signal]** Spooky Pinball's premium boutique model with reasonable pricing and strong fulfillment creating competitive advantage vs. Stern's scalping-inclusive pricing and Dutch Pinball's reliability issues (confidence: high) — Direct comparison of three manufacturers; discussion of only Spooky as trustworthy for pre-orders
- **[leak_detection]** Pokemon Pinball details (Jack Danger vs. George Gomez design roles, Insider Connected regional collection feature) sourced from skeptic within Stern organization (confidence: medium) — Host attribution: 'from a skeptic within the organization'; speculative discussion of IC feature implementation
- **[licensing_signal]** Stern using 'licensure approval' as blanket excuse for Pokemon delays and incomplete launches; hosts criticize this as avoidable if licensing locked in advance (confidence: high) — Direct critique of pattern; discussion of just-in-time licensing vs. planned approach; Pokemon example
- **[personnel_signal]** Jack Danger's design role on Pokemon minimized; George Gomez took over primary design responsibility after initial concepts (confidence: medium) — Host clarification of Gomez vs. Danger contributions; Gomez described as doing 'tidbits, adjustments' per organization skeptic
- **[market_signal]** Stern's $13K+ LE pricing model and baked-in scalping margins compared unfavorably to Spooky's premium but reasonable positioning; market resistance to unsustainable pricing (confidence: high) — Direct comparison of Stern's $13K vs Spooky's ~$10K with small planned increase; criticism of Stern's strategy failures
- **[product_strategy]** Back to the Future experiencing indefinite delays; Dutch Pinball production capacity maxed at ~350 units/year; hosts have 'given up hope' on project (confidence: high) — Multiple references to capacity constraints, production delays, and pessimistic outlook from experienced hosts
- **[product_strategy]** American Pinball CEO promised two Bally/Williams games, GTA code update, and Oktoberfest code update by Q3/Q4 2026; hosts deeply skeptical of feasibility (confidence: medium) — Aggressive timeline claims vs. 18-month standard development cycle; skepticism based on company history
- **[product_concern]** Steve Bowden's Raza code criticized as lacking innovation despite beautiful mechanical design; hosts express concern about gameplay sameness (confidence: medium) — Host skepticism about code quality and mechanical fixes without substantive design changes
- **[sentiment_shift]** Hosts express loss of confidence in Dutch Pinball; Back to the Future now viewed with pessimism rather than anticipation based on Alice production failures (confidence: high) — Kaneda: 'I've given up a lot of hope for that game to be honest'; capacity analysis based on Alice issues
- **[supply_chain_signal]** Alice toppers experiencing repeated vendor failures; multiple vendors going out of business; 35-50 units shipping without toppers; hosts question whether topper business is viable (confidence: high) — Detailed account of vendor rotation and customer complaints; industry commentary on unsustainability of topper production

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## Transcript

 it is time for the whop triple threat to return brother like we're coming from the tampa adventure dome before pinball at the beach it's we are pinball we are jay gets canada don currently let's get into a gentleman pinball 2026 what's that what what's happening number 52 catch them all come on where where have all the pokemon gone yeah apparently sharing the invitation was in bad taste i read on pin side oh gosh i i'm wrong with these people i'm always afraid of being in bad taste man gosh who cares it's like hey come to stern we're gonna give you free lunch and free dinner but you have to pay for your flights are you going don i i'm not so like i had blocked off some time so i can go to this pinball at the beach thing so i have to go like right to work afterwards and so like i'm gonna i'm gonna have to miss it yeah what what they're all gonna be at the beach right all gonna be a lot of pinball content creators yeah they're gonna be there the game is done yeah why can't they just ship it that makes sense and we were gonna have to sign ndas anyway per the the whatever because the licensing deal isn't done for merchandising or whatever or marketing uh so yeah why not have it in a back room and be like guys you got your ndas Okay, Gomez is back there. Go give yourself 20 minutes with it. Get some content. And when we drop it, you guys can then go live and talk about it, which is what we want to do. This whole licensure approval is like I hate that. Those two words are what Stern hides behind that with everything now. The toilet's backed up. Licensure approval. It says so on the mail also. It says come in, media, early access. And they mentioned that they are still holding back with some licensure approvals. No. Not only that. So that's why they can't show that. How about someone just gets all the approvals necessary before they start any of the marketing release of a game? Can they do that once? That's a good idea. This is my question. Like with the design and everything, like are they getting these deals locked up like a year ahead of time so they're ready to go and launch? Or are they doing like just-in-time licensing, like just-in-time manufacturing, just-in-time parts? I think it's the code. I think that's what it is. They haven't seen the final code yet. So they're adding that stuff in. But again, games should be more long than it usually is at launch. Can I ask you guys something? Do we have this kind of thing from other companies at game launch? Well, it's hard to tell because I'm sure like Dune was probably in this situation and then they decided for purposes, let's just go ahead and launch a little early. it was a great window to launch but the code's not there but maybe people will forgive us you know so i think we see kind of this thing was that a good idea no no and they had license or approval waiting for it on the screen right on the screen yeah it's no good but they were able to drop it like just before kong but like you know did that help dune out coming out just before kong because if you came out a couple months after i think it would have done just as bad just as good plus they would have had more code to show yeah but let me ask you guys a question if back to the future came out with early code that said like waiting for a license or approval they're still gonna they'll sell out like it was still dune you know that was the issue it wasn't like oh we were waiting to get more of it i think people just didn't really want dune that badly how solid is the rumor with 88 super le editions of back to the future i've given up a lot of hope for that game to be honest what you have the biggest no because i looked at how alice rolled out oh how are they gonna handle back to the future they can't even make 350 games a year i think you already said it when you said if back to the future comes out just stop right there yeah if like what is happening because raz is the bridge to back to the future right and after everyone's seen what happened with alice are people going to go in on raza to float that company but i do hear they have some rich investors so who knows when you have a super wealthy investor i guess you can play by upside down economics and still survive aren't we just done with these pay us some deposits i mean i'm just so over all of that the only time it's okay is for example a company has been doing games for 10 years like spooky and they say this is december give us some money in january or february two months we will ship the games then it's okay everything else i want to say don't support it yeah dutch dutch doesn't have a history of meeting deadlines for sure they don't have a history of meeting decades when it comes to their launches. I've heard some guys are getting their games, but without the toppers. Yeah. Yeah. The vendor apparently went out of business. Then they tried to find a new vendor. Then the old vendor started making them again. Then I think he went out of business again. Apparently, it doesn't keep you in business making Chester cat toppers. Who knew? Who knew? And a lot of people are, you know, they want their money back. It's not just one and two. It is a lot of guys that want the one-off. How many did you hear? Because I went to the source, Melvin. I heard 35 thrown around. I heard around 50. Right. Well, the other thing that's interesting is they're going to make all 500. So there's going to be a decent amount unsold as inventory that they're just going to make. um aren't you surprised it that it didn't help with the you know keep alice so you can get back to the future did they say back to the future or did they say next game yeah i don't know game but not raza oh god can you imagine yeah keep this you can get a raza they should yeah that's gonna be the next move no how is the topper for raza is that still those amplified bulbs up there no no it's uh characters from the game it's pretty cool i've seen i've seen raza it's cool but i just i don't i worry about Steven Bowden's code and it's just the same game some mechanical fixes here and there it's beautiful and i think at 333 what do you think do you think they sell 333 prize no number i would say it's gonna be 13 5 to 15 forget about it like listen the only way i would even entertain it is if i'm somewhere and it's in a box in front of me with a price tag on it, and I can just put it in the truck. Yeah, you're not going to wait. That's the thing. People are not going to wait. They might as well make all 333. And I don't know the final price. I don't know what the tariff is going to be. I don't know what the shipping is going to be. Is it going to come with the topper, or am I going to get the game once the topper vendor goes out of business, and then I'm going to have to wait, and then other people who are getting it after me are going to get it, but then I'm still not going to get it. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I mean, what companies right now make you wait the longest? So Winchester, I keep bringing this up, revealed in October. Is it on the line? I'm still confused by what these production samples – what is a production sample? So the way that they explained it very kindly to me was like a prototype is something that it's like a one-of-one build each time, and you're using parts that you've created, whereas the production sample is made with the sculpts that finally came in from China that are going to be going in the production line. But they're still built, you know, not like, you know, everybody's got a 15-minute workstation and it's going down the line. Like it's not a line-produced one, but it's like cobbled together by the engineers using the actual production parts, which I didn't know was even a difference. But apparently it is. So I stand corrected. Okay. Games are not shipping yet? Still no games in the U.S.? There's a few. They've made like eight or ten. You just don't see weekly unboxing. What I am starting to see, though, is people are actually getting it somewhere and setting it up, which is always good to see. And the more that – once we see that as a pretty steady clip, then I think we can be assured that, okay, the line is now functioning. It's weird that they send a game that's sold out to locations to do what? You can't take another single order. Right. Who cares? The idea of running 200 Stern Pros and getting out a model location first so just people can play the game and then come and order it makes sense. Makes sense. When it's boutique and like 500, who cares if someone's arcade gets it first? Yeah. I mean – That's the same as next week at Pinball at the Beach. Spooky Pinball is going to come with like 10, 12 Beetlejuices. I'm going to ask you, why? Why? I'll tell you why. Tell me why. Yeah, those were sold 30 minutes after the game launched, and people agreed to get a show game if they get their game early. So the folks down in Florida waiting for their game said, you know what? Yeah, play my game at the show. That means I get my game now and not in eight months. Oh, that's smart. Yeah. Plus it gives plenty of people an opportunity to go down there and really play the heck out of the game because they're going to have ten of them. And they're not going to turn the games off, right, when they get sold? Yeah. Already sold? Like this isn't somebody like Great American Pinball did those makeovers of Evil Dead at Expo, and then as they sold for $16, they were turned off. These are pre-sold. They're there for the show. So these games are the numbered games then. These are not the show game games. My rank isn't high enough to be able to answer that appropriately. Wait. They got to be show games. It's a show. No, these are games already sold out, and the buyers can get them early just after the show. These must be the numbered games. No, when they released the 80 show games, they told dealers and distros, we have a few extra, but you got to bring them to the show. These are going to go to the show. You can sell them to a customer, but they're going to be set up at Pinball at the Beach, at TPF, at Expo, whatever it is. But you get them after the show. That's supposed to be what a show game is meant to do. If it doesn't go to a show, you know, it's – so I think it's going to be – I don't think they're going to be one of the 999. I think they're going to be one of the 80 show games. I'll tell you this weekend for sure. Yeah, we'll know. Let's get on that. I mean if I was spooky, OK, I didn't know these games, these 10, 12 games were sold already. I thought these were show games. and i would what was it last year when they did the evil dead where it got some blood on the armor and sold for like 18 000 what what was that it was a company they used right yeah it's a distributor great american pinball that did that that took you know some of his allotment do they should do exactly the same just take 12 games there put some more blood on it or whatever they want to do and look at the market they go for 20 and sell them for 18 000 bam get spooky some money man they're doing the hard work so i saw on pin side a dude who's trying to flip a beetlejuice recently and he had to pay 35 you know this you have to pay 35 to robin to list a game for sale i didn't know this yeah and then robin took down the listing doesn't want people to even have the ability to scout a few sold that's crazy now the guy can't get his 35 back um how much do you think the market value gentlemen is today on beetle juice 20 wow okay that's dude i don't even if you see them for sale anywhere that's why i think spooky should do this donnie take this idea take some extra show games whatever put them out on auction or whatever just say auction them off If I walk over there right now and tell these guys that they have to do even more work before the show, there's no amount of money you could offer them to do that. Well, you bring up an interesting point. I got to talk to Luke. I was supposed to talk to him last night, but I had too much sake. Because they don't want to make anybody upset, right? Spooky really wants to make sure everyone gets a fair shot. They're happy. but they have themselves in a good predicament, which is how do we handle moving forward? Who gets access to a game? Because right now, like their fan club membership was what, like 30 or 50 bucks to get. They could charge. Cause if you look at the scalp, right? Like they need to, they want to try to figure something out where they can reward loyal, spooky customers or create some sort of way. Yeah. To remove the anxiety that you're not going to be able to get their next game. But how do you do it? What would you guys do? I mean, do you charge people a little bit more? Do you reward people who bought your previous titles? Because I don't think anyone would complain with that, that you get to the front of the line if you've been a long-time spooky buyer. Yeah, I think if you go anywhere today, you can usually purchase some sort of premium to be able to skip a line, whether it's at a concert, whether it's at a theme park. It's usually prohibitively expensive for most people. They wouldn't think it's even worth it. And that allows there to be a little bit of capacity built at that high end. So what do they do? Do they say, OK, for one week early, if you pay this premium, you can walk in and just boutique, pick up your game. You'll get a number or maybe get something exclusive with it. And then you're locked in. and then everybody else can just fight on the phones on Thursday when it goes up. Do they do something like that? If they offered, let's just say, 100 spooky VIP passes, which is basically like a fast pass to the front of the line, you get the first 100 games made of our next title, they could easily charge a few thousand dollars for that. And it would sell out instantly, and it's no work whatsoever other than access. Absolutely, people would pay for that access. It's my only issue. My actually only issue is this is very isolated. We don't see other games, other companies selling a game for, let's say, 10K, and it's worth 20K, right, in the signal market. So my issue with all of this is they do the research, they build, they do everything at Spooky, and then one scalper just gets it and sells it to the double price. That's why I'm saying get some show games out there, put them out on auction, and let all the money go into the pockets of the guys at Spooky. They deserve it. They deserve it. You got to be careful there. And I know they're very happy seeing the great value they're passing on to their customers because, look, Stern is basically already doing the scalping and baking that scalping price into all their LEs now at $13,000. And look how well that's worked out for them. And I think Spooky is in a great position there. They're going to raise the price just a little bit. But if I'm them, yeah, like it's a win-win-win. They're the only company right now where everybody is winning. Did you say raise the price? Spooky? No. They're going to raise it a little bit, not a lot. Ooh. Spooky. He already said it. But like $500 or something, not like $3,000. How about Stern? Because I'm going to ask you guys, what's your prediction for 2026? how much of a price decrease will Stern do this year? Zero. That's my question. I'll tell you right now. It's written right here on my blank piece of paper. How much price decrease? Same number of new subscribers this week in pinball is going to get. Oh. Zero. Oh. Topical. I don't think people would be – I mean, anybody's going to be upset if the price goes up. But like the level of rage for Spooky going up $500 versus Stern going up $500, I think Stern would absolutely be feeling the rage if they tried to do that right now with what they've been offering. If they come out with a couple of bangers, though, I think the dynamics can shift a bit. I hear the bangers are coming. And I hear it's not Pokemon, but I hear it's the next two after. And this is from a skeptic within the organization, if you will. So, yeah. Why is it not Pokemon? First of all, amazing theme. Second of all, Jack Danger plus George Gomez. It's a great mix. I'm hearing it's barely Danger. Yeah, Jack had initial thoughts. Jack had an ambitious design. I think it's mostly Gomez. But Gomez was at some interview and he said he just did some tidbits, adjustments. That's it? Yeah. just so this confuses me this remove this remove this and we're good yeah we're good yeah okay okay now i understand what you guys mean okay can you imagine if we get a transformers with like transforming playfields like optimus prime is transforming in mechanism uh megatron is back there transforming we got bumblebee transforming on the slings they need a huge base in the back right like metroplex or omega supreme or one of them unicron maybe i hope they do the movie it's gonna be g1 though it needs to have some sort of transformation ram transformation something call it diverters but it has to do something big venom 2.0 i don't feel like but sterns just they always end up just being a stern and when we get so high hopes for what could be in it so i look i hope it blows us away but i have yeah i'm curbing my enthusiasm i love the property transformers but do you think do you guys think that they're smart enough to do this is pokemon this is collecting these small pokemons do you think they will do something with the insider connected when you go to the west side of the country you can collect these pokemons you can go to the east side you can collect bulbasaur and all that yeah probably i hope they do something smart like that oh we're regionally each you could try that so there's like a meta game going on in the u.s like as you travel around you could use things yeah um i don't know if you need to do that but maybe like each public location can have a unique identifier so at least if you're just traveling around locations in your area i think that would that would work i played pokemon go when my son was young and we mix on a facebook group and we mix with these pokemon go collectors those guys are crazy they travel all over the place some there were some special pokemons only in japan they flew to japan just to collect those they didn't care about the culture nothing to collect pokemons so if they do this yeah but it's true man it is what it is yeah but are people still playing pokemon go no no yeah i don't know i don't know man people not like back then there's not a tremendous crossover between the pokemon fan base and the pinball fan base i mean it's there but it's not as big do you know anyone from your friends anyone that but we're older we're older i yeah yeah pokemon i i said it the other day it's like it's like the blue sky it's just it's just omnipresent in culture it's everywhere i don't i don't dislike it you know i don't have like an aversion to it but i'm not like actively engaged with it i just spoke with zach sharp uh thank him for the invitation, of course. Thank you, Zach. Stern is listening to the show. That's cool. The thing is, I got promised that I will get the early, early edition so I can unbox it. And we're going to put it out on a location and see how it goes. And we will put it out at the window so people that just walk by it on a mall, kids will say, Oh, Pokemon! And they will jump in and put in some money and get some... I think at a location, this is going to be amazing. Don't you guys think? Don't you have a little bit of hype in you? Cengiz, you got to get a cardboard Pikachu cutout and put it out there just to grab people's attention. And with brand new arrows pointing at it. And I think if any game was going to have curb appeal, I think this is a great theme for that, for normal folks and such. But I don't know if it's going to set the collector world on fire. Yeah, when people always say, do great on location, it's always like... What you say when you know you're not going to buy it for your home. Yes. I show crush on location. None of my Godfather plays were in my home. You know, people played a lot of John Wick on location. They weren't playing in the home. Well, and you tend to play stuff on location and seek it out when you know you're not going to buy it. Because you're still curious about it and you love pinball. So I want to hop on it. Like I played Barbecue Challenge if I saw it out just to see how bad it really is. I put a dollar or two in it. Barbecue. John has played it. I've played the hell out of some barbecue, yeah. But not in the house. No barbecue in the house. You'll asphyxiate because your wife will hold a pillow over your face. Talking about barbecue, let's switch over to American Pinball. Yeah. Yeah. So they got a new owner, a guy called Brian, and I don't remember the rest. Do you guys know? Ron. Ronald. Brian Ronald. Congratulations, buddy. Yeah. Beautiful stuff. so he has been out doing some interviews as I understand he wants to start building more was it Raza's and Oktoberfest Oktoberfest I don't know if you want and he wants to do some code update for Oktoberfest I meant GTA sorry and he also wants to build by the end of this year two Bella Williams games Valley Classics. Didn't they say something like Valley Classics or something? Yeah. How do you understand it? Is it classic-like? Like Adam Classic? Yeah, I think it's that period. Oh, no. Don, how do you get it? Do you think D&D or? When I heard him say that, my mind went to they're making Bally Williams games. They're going to make Twilight Zone. They're going to make Addams Family. They're going to make Whitewater. Hell yeah. But then if it's Bally Classics, I'm less enthusiastic. I saw Haggis was building Fathom, and even when that was supposed to come out, I still wasn't impressed. Centaur, I was like, yeah, it's kind of a cool game. Maybe turn it into a coffee table or something. But I don't know that I would pay new money for it. I see the idea. This guy can walk in. And, of course, if they don't have a game that's coded and designed and ready to go, you can go to the layouts and everything for these ballet games. It's already done. It's just a matter of getting the license, getting the parts, and then putting it together and putting it out. You can kind of turn and burn on those projects. And maybe that would give the line something to level up on while they're working on hopefully He-Man or something cool. Those were my initial thoughts on it. I don't have a confirmation of this. um but but but surely they've seen other companies try this approach and it hasn't really worked and this is what makes me worried about the new management is you're coming out of the gate and you want people to look at american pinball as a new chapter and we're moving forward and then all you're doing is making moves where you're looking back instantly and i just think it's like a you know it's a it's not a great way forward i i think they should stop talking about the old titles those were not successful and these remakes who i mean there's very limited demand i mean look at funhouse they couldn't even sell 200 of those things and that had a 2.0 code they have to look at the market prices none of the old classics are selling for $10,000, $12,000. So it's something in me can't believe that they're going that long back on the catalog. It must be high in demand, $10,000 to $15,000 DMD classics from 91 to 98. Day one, if I'm Brian and Ron, buy Beetlejuice, buy an Evil Dead, get a couple Stern hits, This is what we need to beat. This is it. This is the market. This is what is selling for $10,000. If we're going to come out with a straight face and ask 12 for a Centaur remake or Hot Wheels like Baron Gain, it's not going to work. There's so much good pinball now that to reenter the market at a mediocre level with a high price, I don't care how much billions you made making LED road signs, you're in pinball now. And this is what you need to make to succeed now. I mean, we have the bars high. We haven't even heard any rumors about the Centaur lunchbox. Like, what are we actually getting when we buy this thing? How about the jacket? Where's Marty's helmet? Marty's shoes, baby. Damien, man, that guy. Is Damien in jail? No, he's now reinvented himself as an AI expert. I Googled it. Yeah, I went down the rabbit hole like a couple days ago. How could he escape jail? It's the way they set up the LLCs. They bankrupt the LLC and they walk away without paying anyone back. Oh, man. That's why no deposits, no nothing. But American Pinball is not known for deposits. I mean we were distro for these guys. There were no deposits to date. Oh, yeah. That's why. I think they should just – they have some parts. Stop building them. Just burn all the playfields. Just throw them out. Go with the new stuff. I think they should change the name. Yeah. Just change everything and start from, you know, I don't know how much build. Probably print it on so much stuff that they're just like, all right. They changed the logo, right? It came out of nowhere. There's like a new logo. Like the 15th different logo. Oh, yeah, but it's like AI. Yeah, it's terrible. What are we doing? So I like I said joke years ago when I when the rumors for American were for sale, like what would you actually be buying if you bought American pinball? You know, like the right to produce some Hot Wheels, you know, what are you going to like? Just like the parts that are there. Like it didn't seem like there was, you know, like built in, you know, heavy valued assets and nostalgia and everything that you were getting. You know, like you're buying some 50s ice cream parlor and trying to open it up. Like, I don't know. I'm not. Maybe he got like a sweetheart deal. I'm trying to like, look, whatever you're out, you're the only person offering anything. So yeah, have it. You pay me rent. Sounds good. Yeah. And they want to move, right? Talking about the rent. Are they moving? I don't know. I just heard that they will maybe move from there, from that location. I wouldn't because everything there is set up to like build, you know, like they've got the line, they've got the, all the, all the rotisseries that were custom built and everything. It's all right there. And you know, there's enough of a labor pool there. The problem is that this guy can't manage this from Texas. I mean this is something you've got to have your hands inside that factory every day or it will just immediately go sideways. I've heard he would move to Texas. Just a rumor maybe. Is it possible because he said Q3, Q4, he will release a new game, right? No. And he will make code updates for Oktoberfest, code updates for GTF, and was it one or two Bella Williams games? All this by Q3, Q4. I hope everything happens as he says. But I have – I hope – but you guys, you have been doing this for a long time now. We have heard stuff like this before. yeah yeah and when we heard stuff like this before i feel like you know what happened you know the dates are gonna just be them adding the song kata nai jo to every previous american pinball oh no soundtrack yeah like it's easy to say you're gonna do this right and that's what's weird for him to throw out such aggressive timelines when you have never done it it's not happening everyone knows that a good game's development cycle is closer to 18 months yeah so how did you figure out how to do it in six you didn't it's just easy to say it sounds good maybe he has some designs ready or maybe he has something ready what do you think he man do you think they have he man that's been the long running rumor that i don't think he has he man because he said that for the upcoming two three months he will get licensed for the upcoming years so i don't think they have no license so i know i know i was led to believe that you know when when cuphead was pre-launched that they had a couple of other titles that were like inactive development to follow up that like that game was supposed to come out around or just after tpf and then we were supposed to get another one then you know by the by this time next year so whatever that mystery other game was is still out there that that may be only six months out from being refined and finished potentially um you know and then they've had the opportunity to do he-man for a while. I don't know if they couched it or if somebody else bought the license rights too, so there might be some competition. But it's floating out there. But if we get to late summer and I'm holding some pumpkin spice in my hand and we haven't seen anything from them at all, then I've lost hope. I can't imagine anything before Expo from them. What's happening with Cuphead? Are they just not releasing it it's done yeah so i'm gone so i don't know if the licensor like you know got upset with them lost faith and just like pulled completely out of it but the licensor had done a ton of work on this game you know this game was going to be like the third sequel so they did like original animations and everything and and sounds and and the art was all done by them so like for them to sink all this work into it and walk away seems odd i wonder if they're they're wanting to protect their brand, you know, divorce themselves from AP, but keep this dream alive for somebody else to pick up. Yeah, that is true. They probably, maybe they own it probably, the game, but they might be able to take it somewhere. Yeah, yeah. And so I would love them to walk into somewhere that can build this thing because, I mean, it wasn't the most impressive game I've ever seen. It wasn't like, you know, Pinside Top 10 for life, but it was good. It was good. It was fun. It was engaging. It's a little different. The Shotwell? They did a good job of lowering the bar. Yeah. It was for sure their best game. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Do you have, you know, like top three Bella Williams games that you want to pay $12,500 for if it got remade? Indiana Jones. Yeah. Never happened. That's probably the only one. Yeah. India, I want to pay that money for. You remade that game. Would you open up just a little bit that shot to start the modes? That is just so tight. I would redo something about the right ramp shot on the Indiana Jones, man. It's a crazy shot, the right ramp. I cannot do it. But do you think they will come with 2.0 codes also? Because they said re-imagine or something. And he doesn't really need it. The code's good in that game. But, you know, those codes are like 30 years old, guys. When you compare them with today's games, I love Billy Williams' DMD games. But when you play the – There hasn't been a 2.0 kit that really worked. Yeah, and they keep coming out with another thousand run of Medieval Madness with no 2.0 code, and they immediately sell out every time they do it. Donnie, can you clean your camera? Oh, sorry. I cannot see your beautiful eyes. Probably a good thing. yeah i don't think american pinball uh really has a full strategy in place and i think what they're trying to do is just learn how to manufacture by making some of the old stuff again but again there's so much exciting stuff sonic's gonna crush oh i can't wait to do this it's gonna crush it's it's i you know from what i've been gathering they are so excited i keep hearing it's steve's greatest game of all time he's super excited and he's just happy that he's making a game that's so universally kind of loved by generations and it's like he says like it's like his most adorable and cute game to date you know we know richie for like his hard rock and his like black knight and it's here we got this little cute little hedgehog he's going to be going around loop-de-loops and circles and collecting coins and jumping he said i think it's the they said it's gonna be the fastest pinball game ever that's gotta be it's sonic That ball is going to fire out. But if we got hurt in five seconds, it's going to win everybody over. When will it come out, though? Because they're building Harry Potter's like crazy huge, huge success. Yeah. When did Potter come out again? It was like March of last year, right? It was right around TPF, March, April, right? When Dune. Must be around TPF. It got announced there. TPF was when Jack said not one dollar out of your pocket until you see this game. right announcement yeah it was like april i think all of it dropped in april yeah dune kong potter i can't it was all on top of yeah kong was around there also yeah kong and dune dropped the same weekend because i was at both places like going nuts trying to fly around the country and cover all this stuff yeah don't drop a game with elvis uh keith elvin drop uh when he comes with the the game man i mean it's not a good idea right now sonic is looking at more like june july-ish but who knows do you guys know if they have two lines to build games at jjp so kind of june 5th 2025 is when harry potter came out so um when they were doing potter they still had some orders for some avatars so they had like you know if you've been to jjp they have like this huge assembly area there was a like less than a quarter of it that was set aside for Avatar so they could still put out a couple a week. But it wasn't like parallel construction or anything where they're like two lines up and running. Stern's got the capacity for potentially like three if they staff the whole thing of like actual parallel lines of production. They're just back locked with Harry Potter's. A couple of months they will still be back locked. So if they catch up with Potter and put that on like that Avatar assembly so there's still some going out each week then they can start producing something else. And maybe they've reconfigured since I've been there. I don't know. Yeah, it's going to... Chris, how much of the game have you seen? Can you give us some tidbits? You're good friends with the... I'll be honest. I haven't seen anything on the playfield. Have you seen anything off the cabinet? Something? I'm not supposed to talk about... You're on a watch show, man. I'll tell you this. There's going to be something very interesting on the the it's gonna pop you're not gonna want to put this game in between games i'll just say that and it's really cool and it's the art is exactly what you'd want from sonic it's not some it's not movie based it's all the video game yes all is it like 16 bit art or i mean is it true to say that art if you look at like the sonic video game covers the not the original like eight bits i think it was 16 bit with sonic wasn't he like i think it came out in an eight bit the sega master system but it was popular on the next one no he was no it was mega drive it was 16 it was 16 bit but there was an eight bit that was made later and it may have been it's like a fan thing but yeah okay there's a conversion then okay okay yeah yeah but what i love about when i talk to to them about it is you know they really don't want to stop until they get everything they want into the game and this is like same reason i love spooky you know these certain companies they don't want to take no and you know everything's negotiable and and i love that and you know and i think when you listen to stern lately it's like they don't go the extra mile to try to get everything in it and as much as they keep saying they can't if why if you can't do it why can they do it and i keep saying they do invent in wisconsin in a barn they can make beetlejuice this amazing and why and you know for george to say nobody wanted to make beetlejuice over at stern and then you look at what's in that game and you look at the fanfare and the excitement it is so embarrassing they have so many people they have hundreds of people back to the future he said wasn't it yeah they passed on that they they passed on i don't know what jody was smoking you know or what they were thinking was like what we wanted but again the they got to a point where they stopped listening to the very people who buy their product they they legitimately brought in an agency this is true story they brought in an agency to try to figure out how to future proof their business and sell more pinball to like gen z kids who can't even afford rent and they focus grouped them not not not not us not not the people out there they just thought we would buy anything they put in a box and you know it's caught up to them it's caught up to them and now you know look let's talk about fallout because i i'm so curious because pokemon transformers yes right on the demo fallout you think it's based on the amazon show or is it going going to be based on the video game don you start probably video game because when we've seen them come out with you know marvel licenses they go for comic book so they have more control a little bit lower cost better margins more freedom than you would if you had to go licensing actors and their representatives and all that so i would think video game makes sense you're you're playing a game you know the lcd screen can have like the heads-up display from the game and show you all your stats and things it's going so that makes sense to me inventory systems and all that yeah it's i wonder like if more people's cultural connection to fallout is happening through the tv show though than the game in current times um because i do you guys play fallout i never really played it i i played it like i think the first one back in late 90s or something i played fallout back then but i'll tell you how long ago it was that i played fallout i rented it from gamefly there you go so but one of my friends said you need to watch the new series with fallout and i was like all right it's right so yeah listen to this so i put it on it starts and it has got Music from like the 30s, 40s, 50s. Trumpet, ear bleeding music. Just, I couldn't. I stopped the show. I watched 15 minutes of that music. It ruins everything for me. It's like some of the greatest music of all time is in that show. Oh, no, no. I couldn't. So I watched like 15 minutes. too much trumpet 40s music for me jazz yeah but that shows kind of got that like romantic like 60s 70s period which led to like the nuclear why is the music from the 30s then it's like this romantic period of american history or american culture and and and it's sort of you know because all that music is kind of got that like beauty and optimism about life mixed with the dichotomy of of nuclear fallout and i think that's you know watching the world turn into something so ugly mixed with music that was so full of like hope and and positive energy i think i love key filming games i will probably buy it but it has if it has got this trumpet noise i won't play it I just can't wait for grown men to hear the Pokemon theme song. It just would happen. Oh, I'm going to cry eventually. Like you're down in your face. That's a great song. Awesome. I love it. I love all that Japanese anime stuff. I love stuff like that. But I don't like. Imagine like your wife sitting upstairs with her forehead in her palm, listening to you like rocking out with Pokemon downstairs, thinking like i should have dated trevor instead how did i end up here i love it i'm worried that stern's gonna like loop that song too like to the point where like you can't take it anymore the way they do the star wars theme song in the new game it just keeps playing like every time you hit start yeah yeah seth is like this is it this is it george you take that scene in margin call like set this like we need to sell like 10 000 of these this is it well i would love to listen to some pokemon music the danish version could be awesome just mod it out i would love it but yeah let's talk about the upcoming games i am not excited for uh fallout the other game is uh you know in the game universe we're hearing about is halo are you guys excited about that theme i mean there's always potential um you know it's supposed to be uh what Steve Ritchie's brother Mark Ritchie doing it but um you know i guess originally with pulp fiction he had this idea for a wide body game with upper playfields and all this stuff and they got kai bosh had to be 70s inspired you know so now maybe there'll be something awesome um when will we see it who knows it's supposed to be a tpf but i haven't heard any of that chatter anymore um i put my name down on one just to just to have the option open because i have no idea um do you remember what happened last time you bought a cgc game like we we did show nine months later you were still waiting yeah well i had put down a deposit like months after the launch though for that pulp fiction you know it eventually did can't come it was all right but um yeah i played halo mine i made 2000 on my pulp spot oh congrats dude it was hot when it when it when it dropped it was so hot remember yeah you couldn't you couldn't get a spot and then no cgc as a brand i think has probably the worst customer service the worst timelines of all the new companies they're just it's just weird like right now more medieval madness they're doing twilight zone too so i don't even know yeah like they We've heard that for five years now. Rick has got some like, Rick's just going around like prostituting all these old titles to whoever will make them. And obviously CGC makes the best of all the remakes. The quality hasn't been as great as it used to be. But yeah, I just think Mark Ritchie Halo in 2026 is dead on arrival. There's just too much else. Nobody wants it. If you did a survey, who wants Halo pinball? If it was back in 2001, I would have bought it instantly. But if you think about what really makes a pinball fun, Halo's a great game. It also kind of exhausted even in the video game world now So it like you coming out with something that past its shelf life it and it is the pinball version gonna elevate you know the fandom around the theme i don't know there's some certain certain themes just do better as a pinball experience and i just remember the music the intro oh with the ring halo ring that was magical back then if they do something like that i think i mean you know roth rills makes those halo shooters that are at all the big arcades you know the awesome you know and so they're probably like well look we work on location we work with these guys we got this license we got a lot of art and assets and everything we could do pinball hey mark throw a pinball machine together we'll use these assets and our relationships with the license holder we'll go ahead and put this product out it's probably how it came to be sure doesn't mean it's gonna be good or selling it might come out like you know predator is a halfway decent game but it's sitting there still unsold only 300 made um so is this gonna do something similar like oh yeah that's right they did make a halo game i'll play it at expo or something i talked to the predator team they will start the production the 31st next month then it's over and his his prediction was they will sell out before that date so there are really very few predators left like very very few he was also surprised the code is not locked he was surprised why hasn't nobody you know inserted arnold yeah inserted arnold why not he doesn't want you to say that yeah because he's yeah well i i can't say that because i i asked him i asked him he said it's okay but he said it's not locked like like fort nice he said we can send you know people to the moon why well i mean it's it's it's open to someone someone will do it there's just not a lot of owners and there's not a lot of energy right so when people put the what was it the jurassic park clips into because there's thousands of people that own the game when only because right now only like 150 people around like 200 maybe bought a predator you think if they had because they did all the marketing was in-house where they were just teasing us like randomly for weeks with little clips you think if they just turn that over to like a firm to just advertise this game make it available they could have like tripled their sales potentially instead of the 300 got like 900 if people like were were like they were building like a kind of a hype train because it seems like it was fizzled we got excited initially and then it just and then i told them to limit it to 300 before the launch and then they bungled stuff because they were they were having people show the game with assets that weren't actually in the game then we all got disappointed and then the game launches and it's like this is terrible i think that don was like purposely bait and switch yeah because they sent out those clips to dealers they knew that would make it out they knew that would make people want to order it and then they removed it like it oh that's evil man do you think it's like that i don't think it's like that it came from them like they literally knew they did not have any permission to put arnold anywhere near the code they put him in that they were hoping i remember hoping it's very simple we're trying 15 million dollars is it like better to ask forgiveness they're like let's just put this out there i'm sure it'll work out oh my god they should have got kevin kulik in the game somehow they should have had a kevin kulik like you know hanging his name is Kevin Kulik he was skinned alive he owes me money I think Kevin Kulik put a curse on Predator as a pinball machine I think he did that something something something his version has Arnold in it I played it it's terrible I gave him $5,000 did you lose it? yeah what did you see in that game? Remember how many times he tried to get the light to work with the blood? They just kept adding more UV to the point where you'd give you cancer if you played one game. But a lot of people were excited, man. I called him. I was like – he said, just give me $500 in deposits. I sent that. Called him two days later, and he was like, I haven't received the money, but if you want the first game, first production game, and he sent me pictures of like 100 of skeleton heads or something. If you want the first game, just transfer $5,000. We will ship the first game to you. Yes, $5,000. Send it to him. Remember those days? You didn't see his mom's microwave in the background of all those photos? No, they had set everything up. It was him and it was another big guy that made the coat. I don't remember his name. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They did a haggis on us, man. Those before Don joined this hobby were like you'd go on Pinside and there was just like all these people defending the project. Like defending, you know, and it was just like the dude like called the number on the back of the Predator VHS tape and thought he had the license without even exchanging any money. It just – looking back on it all now, at least now. I don't know. Do you think we're done with scams? You know, I mean people that – We just had the – I know. We just had Haggis. But do you think we're finally going to be done with pinball companies taking money than going out of business before people get their item? People – how did we start the show? No deposits unless it's a well-established company that will give you the game one maximum two months. Everything else than that, don't give money. Don't pay. If someone comes out, I have this game in six months, just block them. Who are these dudes making Resident Evil in Sweden? World Pinball, dude. Don't you know these guys? I mean, they're World Pinball. They showed up one day. They're building in France. They're from Switzerland. I don't know. I have nothing. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so that's like a lot of question marks there around them. And they hit me up. I think the game should be out like any month now. They said early 2026. Hmm. Well, do you know anything about these guys? They're like closer to your time zone. No, they are very close to me, but no, I don't, nothing. Not $1 until there's a game in a box and you've been able to play it and you can just take it with you. Show us the games. That's the same thing I want to say to American Pinball. Thank you for the interviews. Welcome to the wonderful world of pinball production. No more talk. Let's get some products out there. We're all excited. We cannot wait. Just get some products, right? Galactic tank force owners are happy. I think the ground is definitely not fertile for a scam company to come back and try to entrench its roots. I just don't think there's any ground for that. If you're scamming in pinball now, you're trying to sell $5,000 Indiana Jones on a Facebook marketplace and take a $500 nonrefundable deposit to hold it and then run away with the money. Yeah, yeah. All right. Yeah, go on, Cengiz. I was just going to say, if you want to have some fun, just Google Andrew Highway's new product, Ice-Splosion, his new home slushie-making machine that he brought to CES. As of a couple weeks ago, just listen to his interviews. It's the exact same, like, we're almost ready for production. We're going to be $700. I solved the problem. Why do you have to go out to get carbonated slushies? And they even ask him about like his – he still boasts about his pinball manufacturing days as if it was a success. Like it's crazy, the delusion. Did he go to jail? No, nobody went to jail. Robert Mueller didn't even go to jail. The dude took $61 million from like old ladies. What the heck? He like paid for a divorce. The other guy at Haggis, not the owner but the next guy with the feet on the camera. Did he go to jail? Marty's shoes went to jail. they sent it that was the funniest i i do miss though companies trying to convince us everything is all right yeah you know when i was doing like the you know the pizza the free pizza if you showed us the factory tour yeah because i always it was always funny like the empty factories that these guys were doing it's like nobody's working there there literally was like nobody working at haggis almost every day because they had no money to pay employees and i remember when you did that you showed something from dutch dutch with barry it was such a cool video yeah i love it you know who hasn't done it i want to see multimorphic do it come on jerry how many you got how are we talking inside that place have you seen any of the multimorphic game what's that newest portal portal yeah have you seen portal on locations is it out only what's going on only it shows He always sends newsletters out. I never know what's going on. People are getting them. I traveled the country playing Portal. I went to three different shows in three parts of the country and played it. It became like my most played show game of the year. Okay. Man. It's expensive. So expensive. Like, okay, the whole point, the selling point for the system was like, you know, cheaper games and less space, you could have more things to do. And then they come out with, and we're different from other pinball. And then their most successful game is the one that's most closest to regular pinball that people have been asking for. And they come out with the extended version of Portal, and it costs the same as a Stern Pro for just the module. And then you have to have the $10,000 cabinet to put it into. And then these things take up a lot of space with all these modules laying around, and they cost the same as regular pinball, and they're still not as fun. What are we doing? Yeah. He would have been so successful at the very beginning if he just made normal pinball because they have some of the best engineers. but they have to like reverse engineer everything to work with the silliness of the screen as the plate like it's ridiculous how much did it cost when they came out years back they were cheap no it was always like 10 g's no i think it was under 10k with with a module but like lexi lightspeed if you're buying that thing Dennis Nordman's classic lexi lightspeed when they asked three thousand dollars for drained which was 27 stand-up targets in a gobble hole i was like what are we what are you doing what are you doing yeah wow all right all right next subject so i've been in this for many many years so long time that i've seen people that sold tires that said i sell pinball machines also with zero support zero servers just give me the money and get your pinball machine and four new tires. So I'm from that generation. I hated all those stinky ass distros. And right now I just want people that has got pinball in their heart to be distros because that kind of dealership will have more people buying pinballs and buy second time, third time. So I have always said, Donnie, you need to be a distro. I have always said, Chris, you need to be a distro. Now my dream with Donnie is okay, and my dream with Chris, I'm talking with him every day, you need to be a distro. How is it going, man? Are you listening to me? I thought you had photos of the warehouse, the dropship. We do. We do. Put them up. Do we want to see them? Yeah, what is it, Sorda? Is that the name of it? There's a couple of them. There's two of them in Chicago. Yeah. You mean that dropship thing? yeah i go to the one one of them i don't know about the other one let's see which one do i go to the thing is this is you know when you do any content it's there's just a fine line there's a balance i mean i love the creativity of being able to make content i never will be a shill and that's the job of a dealer is just to sell you whatever he's got to sell you um i want to figure out though like how to look at donnie can you see it here look at the background yeah isn't it beautiful what i want to try to figure out though too is a way to actually list some of these games and allow like more like a bring a trailer like an auction like thing so you can actually without having to apologize put a few games up and let people see what the market value is but give people a chance at it versus because even like right now you there's no auctions happening anywhere in pinball so you have a beetle juice the only auction and auction happening right is is like project pinball is making 20 grand a pop on each one and you know there's nowhere to just put it up and let people like have a shot at it i even floated that and people got mad at me for to do that with the five games i've got i don't know Why? Why not? That's the most fair shot of getting one. All right. So when the PS5 was super hot, the only way to get one was to be there when the truck dropped off and wait out front for hours. Then you could grab two of them and then go put them on StockX or something for $700. People were like, oh, it's not fair that you're scalping that. It's like, well, that person made $200 because they went and stood out in the cold in line. Putting the effort of going to three or four locations to find this thing. Like, you know, for me, it may have been worth paying someone that $200 just to go be my boutique shopper for me. So I don't have to do any of that. You know, so maybe that exists for pinball, too. Like, can I just pay someone a little extra money and they'll do the groundwork for me and I don't have to worry about it? I get I get to unbox the new brand new thing when it first comes out. Done. You know, I support that. Done. Yeah, that's what I mean. Chris has got five Beetlejuices, right? Yeah, but I get it from every angle. So like, OK, so let's say I want to auction off those five games. I'm going to hear from people saying that it's unfair that Bug and Luke even gave me five games to have, right, to give to my club members. Because they're going to say they gave them to you because you give people a chance to get one at MSRP. There's just like – if you make a lot of pinball content, and we do, right, this notion that you shouldn't get any treatment that's special or any – I don't buy that. Like we make a lot of content. We help keep these companies, you know, in the conversation every week. We do a good service and we make this hobby very enjoyable. Five games is not a lot. You know, no one's complaining that a dealer got 100 and is making $100,000 for doing no work whatsoever. $100,000 in one day doing no work. What work are they doing? What work are they doing? Are those games going to go from spooky to to Zach then to customers? no that's why i'm telling you you live as i don't but i don't care i like i'm glad zach you know zach made the content he helped them like you know get the games were sold out before they even were announced right we so that's the thing i know like look it's it's a tough one and i know like in the end in the end i just never want anyone to feel like bug and luke and the company themselves like did anything that was greedy right that this is what has built spooky's goodwill is They've never made a greedy move. And so, yeah, I'm going to give them away at MSRP. I'm not going to scalp these games. But I do think there is an opportunity to sort of figure out a platform, if you will, to sell games. I have the solution. I have the solution. It's only five games. We started the show. I said I want Team Spooky to make more money because these games cost more money on the secondary market. You have five games. You have your 7, 800 full supporters on Patreon. Put it in there for your Patreon people on auction, but tell everybody, don't laugh, tell everybody half of the earning goes to Team Spooky. That's it. That won't work with these people. it will there is pure anger that they will still look at it like i should have been able i should have been able to buy this game from spooky for ten thousand dollars canada shouldn't even have one that is that is that i could listen to don don said for six months this game is cool put in the deposit get the game he said it on every show so he they had the chance you have five games Your supporters, they love you. They will get a special treatment like this in this way, and half of the earnings goes to Spooky. Wow, that's cool. They're getting 25,000 more. Last year, I've lost some money on some deposits. I lost money on Ultraman, Toy Story 4. Don has your Ultraman. Cool. So I legitimately got on the list for a Metallica remastered LE, and I bought it. It's now my game, right? Okay. And I just wanted to sell it for the market value because I saw people were throwing stupid money at it. Cool. It was the amount of vitriol I got. I'm going to cancel your – like it's just – it's ridiculous. It's like you're not allowed, and yet these guys are making dealers like millionaires. And it's just – it's strange. if they knew the amount of work and you know i'm staring down the barrel of like my wife might lose her job at any hour now because the company might go bad and i'm like this is like the amount of work you know and and i'm not like complaining but i'm just saying when you've studied this hobby and put over 10 000 hours into it the ability to try to find ways to monetize shouldn't be looked at with such indictment and these people get so mad like again because there's just a level of entitlement and it's fine i kind of love that part of the hobby everyone feels like they're entitled to the games they want to crack at it the fomo is fun if we lose the fomo this hobby loses a lot of its excitement right it's so don will get one of the earliest beetle juices for us let's just say msrp don wants to sell it for 15 000 and that's not cool or what no they'll come at them they will absolutely come at them now look i the reason people come at me i'm gonna be honest is because they're like, dude, you don't even want the game. You don't even want the game. You're just buying it to flip it, right? And I'm not saying that that's not the case with some of the titles. Like, for example, Pokemon LE, I'm on the list for one. I am not going to take that game. I am fully speculating on it. But I'm on the list in the same way everyone else can get on the list. It's just like an IPO of like a – and the people say like pinball is not an investment. It is and it isn't. It is if you make it one, right? It's like this is what people don't – it is if you make it one. It's a commodity that you can trade. So yeah, like certain people think it should only be – it's a toy to have fun with, but it can be an investment, and we've seen that. And we've seen people make money on those investments. We've seen people lose a lot of money. It's fine. You need that. You need a market. you know so yeah am i gonna kick down the door of a dude selling a pirates of the caribbean ce for forty thousand dollars and say you you should not be allowed to sell this for more than 12.5 which is what he bought it for no i mean game's gonna sit no one's paying 40 for that game anymore but whatever yeah so no i'm all about like the good vibes so i don't want to piss anybody off i don't want to throw any shade on these games will go for msrp if you're listening to this these are not going to be scalped changus's ideas of getting bug and luke are making you know good living they don't need the extra it's not worth the headache for the you know an extra two grand here or there it's not worth it if people were putting money into your gofundme when you lost money on a game then maybe they have room to complain yeah there's if there's one person who has no sympathy coming his way and i don't deserve it like i enjoy doing this right and we all do it we've all done the content for no money we did it because we love it and it is what it is there's just some money to be made though. And that's not a bad thing. I just want Spooky to have a bigger piece of that cake. Because they do such a great job. That's the right thing. Jersey Jack sells a lot direct. This is something that people don't talk a lot about, but they sell a lot direct. So, I mean, it can't be lost on Bug and Luke that if we sell direct. Guys, when this exists, right, you can see – look at the background. It's just – it's – God. Can you text those to me? Don, what are these? They don't look like pinball. What are all those? So, I mean, this place has everything. A lot of coin redemption, a lot of casino machines, slot machines and things show up there. And so it's different every time I go in. Okay, Don, I'm going to ask you. Yeah. So there is drop ship things in the US. Yeah. Okay. you're a part of spooky so be careful how you answer when you sell through a distro the distro gets a cut for basically not doing that much because you do the building you do the design you do everything right why do you want to sell through a distro why not just you had your open house night, you could sell 200 games that night, right? Can you imagine? You could sell 500 games from your web shop. I could have sold them all direct. If Spooky said it, they're only available through us. So why use a distro in U.S.? I understand. Out of U.S. I understand that. When the game's hot and selling itself, it probably doesn't make the most sense. But when times are leaning, you need someone out there cheerleading to get these things moving, and they were the only people that were buying them then that when they were helping out When you don offer customer service and you offload that to the distributor I think that where the value comes in for the manufacturer But yeah world changing and titles are changing and types are changing and like Spooky and these other boutique companies are positioned to look at the same 1 people or 1 people out there and just keep serving up 1 games Maybe they don't need all those extra sales. And you do the math, right? So I hear like a dealer makes $1,000 on a Beetlejuice. Let's just use that as an example. that's one million dollars you hand it right so that million dollars not too that's a lot of money if all you need to do is hire a few customer service people and you know figure out a network of it's easy to find a network of local like people to send if you need to send physical person to go help with the repair a million dollars and you add that up over four or five games for $5 million. And that's just on a small margin of $1,000. Stern is handing $2,500 per LE to a dealer. I'm just telling you, the last Stern I bought, the display had a dot on it. And I wrote to the distro back then, and he just forwarded the mail to Stern. And Stern just sent me to Denmark and express shipping new display. So when I got Stern's contact, I just removed everything with the distro and just – I had some dead switches. He sent me some new switches and – Yeah. Yeah. I mean in US, one thing that's very, very cool with distros is when a game comes out, they market on Facebook like crazy. When the new game comes out, my Facebook is like, Oh, my God. The same game is all over the place. That's cool. Free marketing. I understand that. Yeah, yeah. But giving, as you say, I don't want to say anything. Canada says $2,500. And if you get 100 LEs, that's a lot of money day one for doing what? Yeah, but you're not getting those 100 LEs without buying like 600 pros that are going to sit. Yeah. I think the dealer-distributor model, it works for Stern. Stern needs it because there are just thousands of games, thousands of customers. But boutique, the future is direct sales. Everybody knows it. I mean it's just staring them. I'm going to tell you something. I'm going to tell you something. I have heard from different pinball manufacturers that buying games to stock as inventory, it's not happening by distros anymore. It's not happening anymore. They push back on Stern's strong – Not only Stern. I have talked with other manufacturers. They're not buying and having games on stock. We're not doing it. It's crazy. Well, think about what always is crazy about Stern's model is you're a dealer. You sent them a check. You now own this inventory, and you can't go sell it for the market value. And I mean, like, what happens when John Wick, Ali, you're not going to move them at 13? The market's collapsed a little bit. I can't list this game, which I own, for $11.50, or you'll stop selling me product. But Stern, I love that last – was it Turtles? Don, you told me. Was it Turtles? You don't need permission to do what you want with the inventory you bought of theirs? That's ridiculous. Yeah, they did that with Rush when it was unsold. They allowed them to advertise under the mean whatever price. But no one was buying them back then anyway. That was already passed. But, yeah, they're held by the throat. Now, they can't publicly advertise, but you know those games are sold. Of course. They're all backdoor deals. You go to Automated. It fell off a truck. Why don't you just become a distro? You have warehouses you can ship up, get from, give people great service, buy Pokemon from Canada. It's a Canada edition. You have Canada sticker on there. My plan is to just partner up with some of the big ones you know about and just help get more sales their way. That's it. Like I can – I look at it like I can send some of my followers here and here and like we'll work out a little deal. But what I won't do is shill. This is what I don't want to do. I don't want to become like, hey, guys, only 58 labyrinths left. Like come get – like I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. To me, that's not – I've spent over a decade of my life, a quarter of my life. But when you shield, you do a great job, man. You shield the Allison games. Wow, look at this beautiful pin. Like, you sold them, Chris. I'm sorry. I don't feel good. He was selling so bad. I didn't get any cut, right? Well, that's the thing. If I got a cut of those Allises, then I would feel much worse. So I don't really feel that bad. I, it is a beautiful pin. You know, I didn't get to see it or play it before anybody else. And then once I did, I've been very honest about Alice. I wouldn't buy it. I've been honest. It's not a great pin. I knew what Melvin was doing, but it was a design study creation. He did it. He proved he can make a game in a year, but next to any modern game, you'll be bored of it in an hour. I've been, I've been, he, and we're good friends. He knows what he creates. It's a work of art. You got to buy it for that reason. Do not buy it because you think you're going to have a better experience. Don, did you order one, Ellis, back then? I had like the last one, but I'm not going to go forward with my order. How about you, Don? Did you order one? Oh, no. No, no, no, no, no. Now, I was intrigued due to all the hype initially. But, like, you know, I wanted to kind of wait and see. And then I played it and I was like, this is – everything Stumbler and Lior did to that game was amazing. and the fact that Melvin like brought a product to market is amazing that's what I like about the game like playing the game in the callouts that doesn't do much for me but like I like what the talented people did with it um I don't know I wonder where Alice's areola went on the the side cabinet art because the backbox is missing but other than that yeah I think it's fine you know you don't Melvin doesn't have he doesn't have a a big software team and this is always going to be the issue this is going to be the same issue with Raza is you know it's still Steven Bowden's code, like nobody's coming in and like continuing the improvement of the software, software improvement, you know, we see it in every, every launch. It's so important. And, you know, when you think about like Spooky's recent success and obviously the art franchise crushing it, the themes are awesome, but I think the software is really where the, you know, all of it comes together and it, and it's so fun and campy and the way, you know, Ben and the team over there think about coding i again i always say code is an extension of people's personalities look at Keith P. Johnson man like he's a he's a pretty dry guy who shows up with like a huge flow chart of how the code and you're like oh no no no no this is this is not gonna why do we need 37 patches and 58 000 notes and habit like no one wants to go down these journeys and you think of like the way spooky is looking at it and you can see like they understand how to make those moments and create a connection sorry did he code for harry potter no potter was Joe Katz which is i have to say that game how many modes does it have like 89 000 like it has i think there's like a hundred or something 90 something 96 or something but to be honest the more i play it I experience new new modes that I haven't seen before so it you know it expands the enjoyability with 93 modes I like it I mean on Potter it was yeah I have to be honest I like it well once you understand it you know it's like more like a role-playing game once you understand and how all of it comes together, the enjoyment level is much greater. There's just sometimes just too much. I mean, that's my only knock on Potter still is like there's just so much going on at once that when you look up at that screen and there's like six things happening, all going on at once, I think it, I don't know, it removes some of the enjoyment of being able to focus and understand like what's actually happening. But over time, I guess, people learn it all. Okay. So 2026, you're going to be a distro. You're going to sell a lot of spooky games. You're going to have some special deals with Back to the Future, Canada edition, right? I hope Barry gets it done. I really do. Give people great service and just expand the love of pinball. Here's the opportunity. So if you've been in this hobby for a long time, you're a bit of a whale, you've got great relationships you've made with your distributors, they always will get you the bleeding edge game. But what if you're coming in now and you're like, I've got the money, but like, I don't have years to make these relationships. Can I hire somebody and just be like, here's, here's your fee. Just, yeah, just get in there. And I want to, I want to, I want a game first week. I want to invite my friends over, have cigars and show it off. Like, and I think that doesn't upset the apple cart as far as like, you know, rank and file pinball enthusiasts can still go to their distros and everything, but someone new can come in and say, I don't want to, you know, be on my keyboard or be on my phone calling spooky you know non-stop can i just pay a fee and have it done yeah how many people live in new york well you think about that model don too it's interesting because i could definitely get like 10 whales to pay like a thousand bucks a month to just how many people knowing that they can get anything without having to like again i just i know people in this hobby they make like 30 000 a day you know after taxes these guys like they they there There are some really big whales that collect that you don't know about. They're not on pin side. They're not getting drunk and arguing with people on the … They're literally just like … That's part of what I'm saying. Chris, you live in a city with millions of people. You live in a city with people that has got a lot of money. If a guy like you that loves pinball have a little location where he can show the new Harry Potter, show the new Beetlejuice and put a bit more on the MSRP. I don't care if you make more money, but you can expand. You can expand pinball like that. They never see pinball anywhere, those guys. Yeah, rent is tough. But again, I've got friends who I've met recently, they have breweries. They have spots. You don't need to necessarily, because I think the biggest mistake a lot of people make is they fall in love with their hobby and then they you know open up like an arcade with no bar and they expect people to like come in and play pinball and make that their livelihood it's hard like the booze is where the money is where the margins are the you know so you just gotta you know you just gotta figure out like what makes sense i mean i have two little kids so and i'm not in a stage of risking it all for uh but but i what i've realized is it you don't have to you don't have a little showroom you have great you have great connection with a lot of people in the hobby i'm not worried i'm not worried yeah you'll see something from me this year we'll see what form it because i pushed don i pushed don look at where he is now great he's building games oh man so don are you designing what's what's uh what's it like it's a collaborative process there it's not like you know bug has this title luke has this title someone has everybody it's like who's got the best ideas let's come together hey we're drilling we're putting wire forms on uh on whitewoods today come on in you know and then it's just a collaborative like let's throw everything here you know i have this idea i have an idea to how to make that work better and that's kind of where the input's coming from sounds fun dude so imagine like you like pinball let's walk into this room here's our next five games how do we make them all the best we can like yeah is it hard for you to like keep it all secret like that's all i want to do is talk about it right you know but like i don't want to betray my that my friendships i made so i think that's what keeps me from doing it um yeah but the hardest thing is just not putting out little hints like hyping up what's coming because it's it is so far away you know there's an industry where like one game releases a year but five are in active development you know and it's like we got to wait three more years for this this thing would kill right now yeah right now knowing Knowing what you know, is the next Spooky going to have just as much of a frenzy as Beetle? A hundred percent. I love it. You know what I love? Because I love just getting that confirmation because literally now there's like thousands of guys right now are going to hear this and start going crazy trying to get on lists and beat down doors. Yeah, I don't want to start the hype too early. But even now, we've all played it and seen it, but we still stop and look at it when we walk by. When it's just over there in the corner, it's like, this just looks so cool. You know what they could – I mean they really could sell. You could buy the next three and just – Oh, the Haggis season pass? Remember that? They should just take all of Damien Harden's ideas and apply them to Spooky. I mean I would feel – like if you could just lock in right now your deposits for the next ones and then you're guaranteed like first 50. You're in that club. I would do it. Yeah, I'm going to talk to Luke about this because it's – yeah, and I think, again, get like midway through the year. Get like half the Beetlejuice run and then just start to think about how you want to create like a VIP sort of access to the next – With Chigar. It's just so fun knowing it's coming. If you were going to plot out – you made a little chart and you put Scooby-Doo, TCM, Looney Tunes, Evil Dead, now Beetlejuice, and then you drew that trend line and then tried to project where it's going, like yeah, that's accurate. Oh, man. You know what the worst part is? If I asked Donnie, he would share everything with me. And to be honest, I haven't asked him. I could also call the guys. I don't think he would. I don't think he would. See, I never like – I don't know anything. When you have something you know you're not supposed to tell. I saw someone on – it was like Canada leaks everything. I haven't leaked a Stern thing. And like, I think the last thing I had that was like a tangible thing, the leak was maybe like the Deadpool play field. Remember when people have that image floating around? There hasn't been like a, you know, like an actual physical thing, the leak in forever. I think like a week before WIC launched, I think I had a blurry potato picture. And that's the last main thing I've seen. Yeah. We kind of know all of like Stern's secrets are just so big. And you know what it is? Because so many people over there are so unhappy. that's why everything leaks you know they don't even care you know who else leaks is the licensors because like a company will go to a licensor and say hey we're thinking of doing this project they'd be like oh you mean like stern's doing and then like wait what i don't think you're supposed to tell me that and they're like they don't don't know yeah they don't care it's so small on like their licensing deal radar um well yeah no like it's going to be an amazing year and what i love now is that every year moving forward that the year will be bookended by these like spooky launches we've got end of year and then like 12 months later it happens all over again and then we've got jjp's firing off now it's really stern is going to be the interesting one to see if they can reclaim i would love to know knows all of this i think they will come out with the banger man well pokemon to come in again pokemon was supposed to be the potter swatter man that's what i was waiting for like stern to slap back and it seems like they're coming back limp-wristed and like i've heard from people that have seen it and i i've heard not so great things kills me i want it to be great i want i want great games but i also again i i think there's just people have a real um strong opinions about stern so i don't know you know who knows like there's but it's just for me it's like george gomez is how old 73 designing pokemon i just i don't know i feel i i kind of feel like he's not into it i think jack danger nails this theme don't you i heard elwyn's a pokemon fan this is what kills me about stern you've got the biggest ip in the history of pinball you've got the best designer maybe in pinball history we can't put these two things together we gotta like silo build not collaborate like to your point john don they should be collaborating not not like everything seems like a homework assignment you get this and it's all political yeah it's all political the reason why john boar got three games like it's all we took indiana jones away from you john so we're gonna do this like it's all political it was like that back in the 90s with bella william and it's a bad environment it's a toxic culture and they've created don just said they just all the heads all the ideas into the game like when you're when you're starting like blue sky you know um you know the game we're working on now there was um an area of the game that had a mechanism in it that we thought was cool and then it was replaced with a better one and then we're on like the third iteration now which is completely different from where we started but what we started and then the collaborative process and put it together it really elevated it into something that's not only fun and impressive but something that's also going to be able to easy to manufacture it's not going to have any problems and when it does it's going to be easy to take apart and fix like so like the iterations that are going on are just yeah that's fun to watch yeah it's fun to participate in and i think that's great like like start with blue sky what area was that talking about the i just have this vision of barry going in every day and just staring at this flux capacitor not knowing what else to do with the game we make it spin it's a horizontal spinner the flux capacitor spinning like a reel on jaws they're like barry where's the clock tower yeah so yeah don you cannot confirm anything so we have heard from canada talking about gremlins don't don't say anything don't blink and canada also also said the goonies right everyone's saying that something isn't like i didn't just materialize and you know franchi's been hiding some easter eggs on the boxes so you know i don't know they're all they're How hard is it to be Don right now? He's like, oh, they're all great themes. I can't wait until the truth comes out and these are all the Multimorphic themes coming. Cherry's next module is like $18,000. We did it. $18,000 for the module. It comes with an add-on cabinet. I feel so bad for the guys who went all in on Multimorphic because when they go to sell, they have like eight kits. And they're like 35 grand in on it, and they're like they can barely get like 15 for all of it. Yeah. Wow. There's a show where – there's a podcast show or a YouTube show where they said that Multimorphic was the best and Evil Dead was trash. Who the hell was it that said that? I believe you're referring to Buffalo Pinball or Dude Do We Even Talk Pinball or Do You Even Live? Okay. Yeah. Wow. The official Multimorphic podcast. I love it when they do their marketing. They're like, we have 47 titles. I'm like, what? Yeah, six of them are Birdwatcher in different forms. Ridiculous. Rocks. Remember that Rocks game? Dungeon Door Defenders is fun to play. I don't know. Whatever. Listen, listen. We hit the one-hour mark, and we are over the one-hour mark. I don't want to beat the a-hole right now, but – All right. Let's end it. Yeah, perfect. I wish we had a – we can't call this – this isn't a triple drain. We can't call it a round table. So I don't know what we call this. But perfect. We called it Canada not on fire. Canada, where is the fire? Donnie, we should provoke Canada and get him on fire. Give me a rant to go out with. Like seven we decided to do this. Fire! Are you doing the Beavis and Butthead? Come on. I think it would work, man. There's so many things that would work. It's just that you've got to make the investment in the coding and everything, and it would be nice if – if you're looking at three licenses and one of them is a quick day 1,000 seller, the other one is a slower burn, but you're really passionate about it. What do you do as a company? What do you make the best choice for the company? So it's like we need to – Option A, dog. We need to spin off like a – All day long. We need to spin off a sub-boutique of like our ideas that are going to sell like crap, but at least we're doing it for fun. Yeah. Yeah. Give me Beavis and Butthead. For the last 10 games, I would choose Beavis and Butthead any day, man. I don't – it's a great, great theme. Yeah. All right. Well, perfect. Well, thank you so much to our guest here, Mr. Kaneda. Yeah. Check him out on Patreon, patreon.com backslash Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. Kaneda Pinball on YouTube, or I think it's what it's called. Saturday Morning Spectacular's. Go and watch him. They're for free on YouTube. And I don't know. I think he probably has an email address too. Send him money. He'll give you a game probably. Yeah, exactly. canada edition games man yeah we're gonna do it it's gonna be a fun year for everybody yeah appreciate you guys oh and i hope you weren't sleeping on we are pinball brother because you know we were gonna be back and bring in the triple threat straight from downtown to your mother's house don't even be sleeping on us email we are pinball 69 at gmail.com to discuss with the pugilists directly also patreon at we are pinball slash dot patreon.com to join the greatest legion of doom that pinball has ever known brother we are pinball we'll be back for your face so watch out until your mom we're coming

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 1c1c4d93-eca5-4434-94d9-6e01d9fd98f3*