# Episode 701: "Kaneda's $15,000 Challenge"

**Source:** Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2022-07-26  
**Duration:** 25m 50s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-701-15-69598943

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## Analysis

Kaneda delivers a critical market analysis focused on pricing pressure in pinball, particularly targeting Jersey Jack's Toy Story 4 Collector's Edition at $15,000. He critiques distributor over-buying, speculates on recession impacts, challenges the value proposition of high-priced games, discusses Stern's Comic-Con misstep, expresses concerns about American Pinball's transparency and production delays, and aggressively dismisses Chris Turner's plans to launch a new pinball manufacturing company.

### Key Claims

- [MEDIUM] 900 Toy Story Collector's Edition machines have been committed to by distributors, and there is no evidence the market sees $15,000 in value in the game on day one — _Kaneda discussing distributor inventory commitments and market sentiment around Toy Story CE pricing_
- [MEDIUM] Toy Story 4 LE is not selling well despite claims by distributors who attack critics of the game — _Kaneda's observation based on distributor behavior and market signals_
- [HIGH] Stern's presence at Comic-Con with Ozzy Osbourne and Todd McFarlane yielded no pinball news and was a failed marketing opportunity, particularly given Venom's association with both figures — _Kaneda's direct observation of Comic-Con events and marketing critique_
- [HIGH] Stern's next game announcement (Venom) is expected by end of August or early September as previously promised — _Kaneda referencing Stern's prior public commitment to August announcement_
- [MEDIUM] American Pinball has not disclosed how many Fathom machines have been manufactured to date, which Kaneda flags as a potential red flag given over one year delay and non-refundable deposits — _Kaneda's direct call-out to Marty and Damien for transparency; production delays documented_
- [HIGH] Chris Turner, formerly of Deeproot Pinball, is attempting to launch his own pinball manufacturing company and will not succeed — _Kaneda's reaction to Turner's revealed identity and announcement via thedeeproot.com countdown_
- [MEDIUM] The Wizard of Oz CE was $6,500 and had twice as much value/content as Toy Story CE priced at $15,000 — _Kaneda's comparative pricing and content analysis_
- [MEDIUM] No pinball company has successfully reduced the price of a game in history; all have increased prices over time — _Kaneda's historical market observation_
- [MEDIUM] The story claiming half of Stern's machines go overseas to create FOMO is false — _Kaneda's claim to have debunked a long-standing industry narrative_
- [MEDIUM] Scalpers are being driven out of the pinball marketplace, which is a positive market correction — _Kaneda's observation of broader market sentiment shift_

### Notable Quotes

> "I challenge any pinball podcaster out there, I challenge any fanboy out there to explain to me why you see $15,000 in value in Toy Story 4 Collector's Edition. Nobody will say why, because nobody wants to die on that hill."
> — **Kaneda**, ~middle section on Toy Story pricing
> _Core thesis: the market doesn't justify the price point and no one will defend it publicly due to credibility concerns_

> "They've all committed to it. Like 900 of these collector's editions have been bought by distributors. And do you think they've sold every single one?"
> — **Kaneda**, ~pricing discussion
> _Distributor risk exposure; signals market movement before release_

> "Wizard of Oz was $6,500 people. Just remember that Wizard of Oz was $6,500 and it has twice as much in it as Toy Story."
> — **Kaneda**, ~pricing comparison section
> _Establishes relative value argument; frames current pricing as disconnected from past standards_

> "I don't understand what happened there. They went to Comic-Con. They had Ozzy Osbourne. They had Todd McFarlane, a huge draw at Comic-Con, and they set up a bunch of Mandalorians and then there was absolutely no news in the pinball world."
> — **Kaneda**, ~Comic-Con critique section
> _Critique of Stern's marketing execution; wasted opportunity with top talent_

> "I don't find it funny. So many people lost money with Deeproot and Chris Turner. Guess who paid your salary all of those years you were working at Deeproot? It was stolen money from old ladies who were investing in Deeproot funds."
> — **Kaneda**, ~Deeproot/Chris Turner section
> _Moral framing of Deeproot collapse and Turner's attempt to relaunch; connects fraud victims to new venture_

> "It's a blue collar job that requires decades of experience. If Chris Turner wants to know how to manufacture, then go take a job on the line at Stern Pinball."
> — **Kaneda**, ~Turner critique section
> _Kaneda's specific advice to Turner; positions manufacturing as experienced craft, not entrepreneurial opportunity_

> "We've never seen a company reduce the price of their game. They've always increased the price of their game. But what if you came out with a game and it's priced too high and then the sales aren't there?"
> — **Kaneda**, ~market speculation section
> _Predicts potential industry-first price reduction if demand doesn't materialize_

> "For all of these years, we were so spoiled. For all of these years, we bought pinball machines and they turned out to be worth more than we even bought them for. But those days are over."
> — **Kaneda**, ~market sentiment shift section
> _Marks end of FOMO-driven appreciation era; signals market maturation_

> "The distributors know it. They didn't want this game to be $15,000. Why would they want this game to be $15,000? Why would they want to have less of a buyer base for this game?"
> — **Kaneda**, ~distributor perspective section
> _Frames pricing disconnect as forced by manufacturer, not distributor preference_

> "If a recession hits, I think Stern will be fine. I think Jersey Jack will be fine. I think CGC will be fine. I think it's all of the little boutique companies that are going to be in trouble."
> — **Kaneda**, ~recession discussion section
> _Predicts industry consolidation in downturn; identifies vulnerability of newer manufacturers_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Kaneda | person | Host of Kaneda's Pinball Podcast; self-described 'world's number one pinball reviewer' covering market analysis, pricing trends, and industry criticism |
| Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Boutique pinball manufacturer; subject of pricing criticism regarding Toy Story 4 Collector's Edition at $15,000 |
| Stern Pinball | company | Major manufacturer; criticized for Comic-Con marketing misstep; upcoming Venom game expected end of August/early September |
| Spooky Pinball | company | Boutique manufacturer praised for selling through all productions; recommended as destination for Chris Turner |
| Chicago Gaming Company (CGC) | company | Manufacturer identified as likely to survive recession; currently being awaited for announcements |
| American Pinball | company | Boutique manufacturer with significant production delays on Fathom machines; criticized for lack of transparency regarding unit production |
| Pat Lawlor | person | Game designer for Toy Story 4 CE; Kaneda directly challenges him on where the $15,000 value is in the machine |
| Toy Story 4 | game | Jersey Jack Pinball title; priced at $15,000 for Collector's Edition; central focus of episode's pricing criticism |
| Venom | game | Upcoming Stern Pinball game by Brian Eddy; expected announcement end of August or early September; features Zombietti artwork |
| Brian Eddy | person | Designer of upcoming Stern Venom game |
| Cactus Canyon | game | American Pinball title with 'arguably the worst launch in pinball history'; LE edition still not released after nearly one year |
| Chris Turner | person | Former software and mechanical engineer at Deeproot Pinball; revealed as person behind thedeeproot.com countdown puzzle; announcing intention to launch own pinball company; subject of Kaneda's harsh criticism |
| Deeproot Pinball | company | Defunct pinball company founded by Robert Mueller; involved in fraud that took money from investors including elderly victims; Chris Turner worked there |
| Robert Mueller | person | Founder of Deeproot Pinball; characterized by Kaneda as 'fraud,' 'charlatan,' and 'criminal' |
| Turner Pinball | company | Announced startup by Chris Turner; Kaneda predicts it will fail and strongly discourages investors |
| Fathom | game | American Pinball title with significant production delays; transparency on unit production numbers not disclosed |
| Marty | person | Representative at American Pinball; runs podcast but provides minimal company transparency; Kaneda calls out for lack of disclosure on Fathom production numbers |
| Damien | person | American Pinball figure; Kaneda requests transparency on Fathom production and timeline |
| Wizard of Oz | game | Jersey Jack Pinball title; priced at $6,500 CE; used by Kaneda as comparison point to argue Toy Story CE is overpriced |
| Charlie Emery | person | Associated with Spooky Pinball; Kaneda recommends Chris Turner work with him on Spinball Fast Balls |
| Todd McFarlane | person | Comic book creator (Spawn/Venom); appeared at Stern's Comic-Con booth but no Venom announcement made |
| Ozzy Osbourne | person | Rock musician; appeared at Stern's Comic-Con booth for autographs; no pinball announcement associated with appearance |
| Joe Newhart | person | Pinball dealer; Kaneda expresses interest in having him discuss distributor challenges |
| Zach Minney | person | Owner of Flippin' Out Pinball; Kaneda expresses interest in having him discuss distributor challenges on the podcast |
| Jody Dankberg | person | Leadership at Stern Pinball; Kaneda critiques Comic-Con marketing decision as questionable judgment |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Toy Story 4 Collector's Edition pricing ($15,000) and market value perception, Distributor over-buying, inventory risk, and recession concerns, Market sentiment shift: end of FOMO-driven price appreciation era, Stern Pinball Comic-Con marketing failure and delayed Venom announcement, American Pinball's production delays, transparency issues, and non-refundable deposits, Chris Turner's Deeproot Pinball connection and new manufacturing startup announcement
- **Secondary:** Industry survival prospects in recession: Stern/JJP/CGC vs. boutique manufacturers, Cactus Canyon's problematic launch and delayed LE delivery

### Sentiment

**Negative** (-0.78) — Kaneda is highly critical and combative throughout, particularly regarding: (1) Toy Story CE pricing as unjustifiable, (2) Stern's Comic-Con execution as a marketing failure, (3) American Pinball's lack of transparency as a red flag, (4) Chris Turner's new venture as delusional and doomed. However, sentiment moderates slightly when discussing market corrections (scalpers being driven out, distributor caution) as positive developments. Tone is frustrated, sarcastic, and confrontational, especially toward Turner and Deeproot legacy.

### Signals

- **[market_signal]** Kaneda argues Toy Story 4 CE at $15,000 has exceeded the market's perceived value ceiling, contradicting the assumption that increased pricing automatically justifies increased features. Claims distributors own 900 units with uncertain sales prospects. (confidence: high) — Direct challenge: 'I challenge any pinball podcaster out there to explain to me why you see $15,000 in value in Toy Story 4 Collector's Edition. Nobody will say why, because nobody wants to die on that hill.'
- **[sentiment_shift]** Kaneda identifies a fundamental market shift away from FOMO-driven price appreciation. Collector behavior changing as pricing tiers rise above $10,000; buyers becoming more demanding and price-sensitive. (confidence: high) — 'For all of these years, we were so spoiled...But those days are over.' And: 'Once you start charging over $10,000, people wake up more. They start to pay more attention and they start to demand more.'
- **[product_concern]** Kaneda questions whether Toy Story 4 CE justifies its price point through engineering or content. Asks directly: 'What's the main mech they engineered? Where did all the money go?' Compares unfavorably to Wizard of Oz CE ($6,500) which he claims has twice the value. (confidence: medium) — 'If Toy Story CE is a $15,000 pinball machine, then Wizard of Oz CE would be $25,000. The whole thing is bonkers.'
- **[product_launch]** 900 Toy Story CEs reportedly committed to by distributors; Kaneda signals imminent discounting risk if sales don't materialize. Predicts secondary market sales at less than MSRP will trigger price collapse. (confidence: medium) — 'What is going to happen when they start to see people sell their spots for less than $2,500? That's when the bottom falls out on a game's value.'
- **[business_signal]** Distributors now more cautious with inventory commitments as market cools. Kaneda frames this as healthy correction but recognizes real pain for dealers with over-committed stock. (confidence: high) — 'Dealers and distributors are getting a lot more cautious on what they order and that's a good thing too.'
- **[announcement]** Kaneda confirms Stern's Venom game (Brian Eddy design with Zombietti artwork) is expected to be announced by end of August or early September, consistent with prior Stern messaging about August cornerstone game reveal. (confidence: high) — 'Stern said like months ago, we are going to come back with our next cornerstone game in August. So I fully expect us to see Stern's next game probably the end of this month, maybe early September.'
- **[product_concern]** American Pinball not disclosing Fathom production numbers or production rate despite over one year delay and non-refundable customer deposits. Kaneda flags this as potential red flag for company health. (confidence: medium) — 'If that is a secret, I think that is a huge red flag. Why is it a secret?...Because you're over a year delayed on getting the games out, will you please tell us how many Fathoms have been made to date?'
- **[personnel_signal]** Chris Turner, former Deeproot Pinball software/mechanical engineer, revealed as founder of new pinball manufacturing venture via thedeeproot.com countdown puzzle reveal. Turner claims to be bootstrapping company without external capital. (confidence: high) — 'Yesterday thedeeproot.com had a countdown clock on it that ran out and it was revealed to the world that the person behind it and the person behind the puzzles was no other than Chris Turner of Turner Logic and Chris worked at Deeproot Pinball with Robert Mueller.'
- **[industry_signal]** Kaneda explicitly frames Deeproot fraud as ongoing source of community trauma and distrust. Criticizes Turner's use of Deeproot URL for new venture launch as insensitive to fraud victims and disrespectful to damaged investor relationships. (confidence: high) — 'So many people lost money with Deeproot and Chris Turner...they didn't know what pinball was. And I think everyone involved with Deeproot Pinball...shut up, go away. We don't want to hear from you.'
- **[market_signal]** Stern's Comic-Con presence with Ozzy Osbourne and Todd McFarlane (both Venom-connected figures) yielded no Venom announcement, representing failed marketing execution and wasted celebrity leverage. (confidence: high) — 'You have all of the elements to pull the curtain off of Venom and then you don't...this was just a pretty sad marketing move on their part.'
- **[rumor_hype]** Kaneda claims the long-standing industry narrative that half of Stern's machines go overseas to create FOMO scarcity is false and was deliberately propagated to manipulate buyer behavior. (confidence: medium) — 'The biggest thing made up ever was this, that half Stern games go overseas...That's such hogwash. Half of the Ghostbusters LEs are not overseas. We've been fed these stories for so many years.'
- **[prediction]** Kaneda predicts manufacturers may be forced to reduce game prices if demand doesn't materialize, an unprecedented event in pinball history. Frames this as potential outcome of pricing ceiling breach. (confidence: medium) — 'We've never seen a company reduce the price of their game...We've never seen this in the history of pinball, a company reduce how much they want for a game. But what if you went above the ceiling?'

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## Transcript

 What's wrong with the world mama? People living like they ain't got no mama. I think the whole world's addicted to the drama. Only attracted to things that'll bring the trauma. Welcome everybody to Kaneda's Pinball Podcast, the world's number one pinball reviewer and your favorite pinball podcast. What are we doing? Two shows, two days in a row, episode 701. Thank you to all the new club members. We're at 528 club members. So here's what I want to do on this episode. I want to talk about what's happening in pinball because we didn't talk about all the news. I want to talk about how I think there's just fear permeating through the pinball distributor landscape. They know they all overbought, but I actually have a lot of empathy for my dealers and distributor friends because it's hard. Like when you think about it, let's just start there right now. Let's just start on that topic. It's really hard being a dealer and a distributor and knowing how much product to buy right now, right? We've got maybe a recession coming. There's no guarantee it's coming, but it seems like it is going to come. There's a lot of fear in the media about it, but that's what the media does, right? They make us afraid of everything, like shark attacks, recessions. You can't go on an amusement ride unless you're going to fear death. Like everything is fear mongering to get you to click on the stories. So I don't know, you know, is the economy going to go down? Probably. We've been printing free money for a really long time. You can't just give people free money and then not have inflation. And then when you have inflation, people stop spending as much. And look, in a world in which everything is more expensive, who hasn't gone to the gas station and like all of a sudden it's like four to six bucks a gallon. And so now if it's a couple hundred bucks to fill up your SUV, maybe $300, are you going to buy a $10,000 pinball machine? So the thing about this is like, look, I know we went through the 2008 recession and pinball All survived barely. But back then, remember people, we didn't have nine pinball companies trying to sell games. Like Stern held on by like a hair's breath and made it through. Now Stern made it through, but there wasn't like nine companies trying to survive. See I always have said this. If a recession hits, I think Stern will be fine. I think Jersey Jack will be fine. I think CGC will be fine. I think it's all of the little boutique companies that are going to be in trouble. But also the dealers and distributors with inventory. This is a really interesting topic and I would love to get a dealer on to talk. Maybe I'll get Joe Newhart to come on. I would love Zach Meny to join the show and talk about this because if you're a dealer or a distributor, think about if you're in their shoes. How many games do you buy right now? How do you plan for the coming economic slowdown? Because a year ago, everything was flying off the shelf. A year ago, they couldn't keep inventory in stock. And they've seen people sort of spending over for the price of a pro, over sticker for premiums. And they've seen some of these LEs double in price. And the entire model of how distributors deal with manufacturers is they have to make some sort of number commitment. If they want to get this number of LEs, they've got to commit to buying this many pros and premiums. I'm not sure how it works with Jersey Jack. I'm not sure how it works with Chicago Gaming Company, but ultimately, you know, these distributors are writing pretty big checks to these manufacturers and they don't make their money until they find a customer for those games. And times have been great. Like it's been a great couple years to be a pinball distributor. And obviously all of them would have loved to have had more inventory when times were hot. Because remember, most of what Stern did in 2021, 2022 was make up the back orders that all of these distributors had with them. And we haven't seen a new Stern game in a while. We just got Toy Story 4, which is not selling that well. Don't believe the hype people. A lot of these distributors now are starting to attack people who are saying the game isn't great. But ultimately, it doesn't matter what a podcaster says. It doesn't matter what a tournament player says. It doesn't matter what anybody says. The market will determine whether or not a game is great. The market will determine if the game's value is there. That's why I love covering the pinball market more than the rule sets or more than the pathway to scoring because it's just an interesting thing to see. Since I've been in this hobby, 701 episodes, I've seen Stern LEs almost double in price. I've seen Jersey Jack games double in price. I've seen all of these games go much higher in price. I've seen some of you spend crazy amounts of money on games they couldn't even give away when they came out. I mean you could get a Stranger Things LE new in box for like eight months. Nobody wanted it. Now people want 16,000 for it. It's crazy, and I didn't see it coming. If I saw this coming, if I saw the pinflation of 2020-2021 coming, I would have stocked up on Pirates of the Caribbean CEs and so would you. You know, so when you see what's going on right now with Toy Story, it's a really interesting thing to watch. I mean, a lot of distributors are sitting on inventory. They don't have the physical inventory there yet. Like some people have Ellie's new inbox just sitting there. The real issue with Toy Story is going to be the collector's editions of these machines, and they need to find a thousand buyers for this game at $15,000 a pop. And you and I both know what's going to happen. You and I both know what is already happening is that nobody sees $15,000 in value in this game. And I challenge any pinball podcaster out there, I challenge any fanboy out there to explain to me why you see $15,000 in value in Toy Story 4 Collector's Edition. Nobody will say why, because nobody wants to die on that hill. Nobody wants to lose their credibility and say, I see $15,000 in value in this particular machine. What they will do is go to another machine and say, well, look what happened to Guns N' Roses, or look what happened to Iron Maiden LE, or look what happened to Godzilla LE. But you can do that You got to look at this particular game Other games went up in value you because people thought the games were great or felt they were great or maybe the games were just great games And the problem with this is on day one, the most expensive collector's edition in the history of Jersey Jack Pinball, nobody sees the value. The distributors know it. They didn't want this game to be $15,000. Why would they want this game to be $15,000? Why would they want to have less of a buyer base for this game? Now here's the problem. They've all committed to it. Like 900 of these collector's editions have been bought by distributors. And do you think they've sold every single one? And then what is going to happen? And this is what they're nervous about. What is going to happen when they start to see people sell their spots for less than $2,500? Right? When you're able to get a discount on the machine. That's when it starts to collapse. That's when the bottom falls out on a The game's value. We saw the exact same thing happen on Halloween and Ultraman. And we're already, before this game is even out, we're already seeing the same excuses. Well, maybe they can do something with the code. People, it's not the code. The code is not the reason why people don't see the value. It's $15,000. Wake up people. If you put two Toy Story CEs next to each other, that's $30,000 in pinball excitement. And I get it. I get it. For all of these years, we were so spoiled. For all of these years, we bought pinball machines and they turned out to be worth more than we even bought them for. And that was a great thing. It was like this crazy economy in which you almost could never lose. You could never lose. Even if you went in on an LE or a CE and you wanted to transfer your spot, you could easily find someone to buy your spot for what you paid for it. But those days are over. And so now you're starting to see like a lot of nervousness, a lot of I'm telling you right now, the game's fun to shoot. I played it again. I played it for like 30 more times. And I'm going to tell you again, it's a fun game to shoot, but there aren't that many interesting shots. And the story of the movie doesn't come through at all. And I'm going to ask everybody out there for $15,000, where is the value? Where is the value? What's the main mech they engineered? Where did all the money go? Like where did the money go? Does anyone want to ask that question about Kaneda? Come on, sit down. I want to sit Pat Lawler down and say, Pat, where is the $15,000 in this machine? Where? Where did you put it? How much did it cost? How many coils are in it? Do coils even cost that much money? Like where's the money? How much do you think it costs to make this machine? Does anyone want to ask that question? Does anyone even want to have this speculation? Like how much money do you think it costs Jersey Jack Pinball to make each toy story? Can they tell us that? They won't tell us that. They'll never tell us that. Nobody wants to tell you how much a machine costs, what the bomb is. Nobody wants to tell you how good sales are. Like every single person out there, not just me, everybody, everybody is speculating on how good a game sells. I can tell you this right now. The only company out there where I'm like, okay, they sold every one is Spooky. Spooky sold every single game or they sold through every single game. I don't know how many Toy Story LEs are ordered. I don't know how many CEs are sold. The only person who knows that are the people over at Jersey Jack. You don't know how many Godzilla's sold. You don't know how many Godzilla premium orders there are. You don't know how well Iron Maiden premiums sold. Do you know how well Rush premiums sold or how many pros are out there? Nobody knows. And the biggest thing made up ever was this, that half Stern games go overseas. That's not true. Half of Stern's machines never went overseas. That was just a story they would cook up to create FOMO because then you thought that half of the LEs were going overseas. Oh, there's only going to be 250 Ghostbusters LEs in America? That's such hogwash. Half of the Ghostbusters LEs are not overseas. We've been fed these stories for so many years that I just love doing this show because I love calling BS on some of this. But here's what's not BS is that the pinball community right now is starting to look at All of this stuff a little bit differently and that's good. Scalpers are getting driven out of the pinball marketplace and that's probably a good thing too. Dealers and distributors are getting a lot more cautious on what they order and that's a good thing too. I'll tell you this right now, the ultimate power to tell a manufacturer this game is not good enough, we have power. But also think about all the dealers and distributors. If they don't place an order for like Galactic Tank Force or they don't place a huge order for For Toy Story, because they don't see the demand, that's going to make these manufacturers go back to the drawing board and come out with the game that has the level of demand and support from the distributors. I mean, ultimately, the distributors hold a lot of power with these manufacturers. They hold almost more power than we do as customers. But I think it's a really exciting time to be in pinball. It's a really exciting time to watch the way this market goes because everybody knows. Here's the thing we've never seen. We've never seen this in the history of pinball and I think we're gonna see it over the next 12 months. We've never seen a company reduce the price of their game. They've always increased the price of their game. Yeah, but what happens if you come out with a game and it's priced too high and then the sales aren't there? How do you discount it? Do you then make your next game a little bit cheaper? I don't know. This could be really interesting. And we haven't seen this in the history of pinball, a company reduce how much they want for a game. We've always seen them increase the price. But what if you went above the ceiling? What if you're asking for too much? What if you can't sustain a company with 12,000 and $15,000 products? Wizard of Oz was $6,500 people. Just remember that Wizard of Oz was $6,500 and it has twice as much in it as Toy Story. Twice as much in it as Toy Story and it was $6,500. Now you could argue it bankrupted Jersey Jack Pinball. Sure, it should have been more like $8,000, $9,000, but man, if Wizard of Oz came out today, think about it like this. If Toy Story CE is a $15,000 pinball machine, then Wizard of Oz CE would be $25,000. The whole thing is bonkers. Everybody knows it crazy Kaneda Pinball Podcast just won stop Let go on to Stern Pinball at Comic I don understand what happened there Does anyone understand this They went to Comic they had Ozzy Osbourne they had Todd McFarlane a huge draw at Comic and they set up a bunch of Mandalorians and I think some Rushes and then there was absolutely no news in the pinball world What was the point of being there Does someone know Can someone let me know Was this like a lifestyle brand move Was it like, oh, we're just going to be here. Let's put two people here that people want to get autographs from and then have absolutely nothing to do with pinball. I don't know. It was really strange. Everyone was waiting for like a Venom announcement. And it's here's what's crazy about it all is that Todd McFarlane created Venom. He's at your boot. You have a Venom machine coming. Ozzy Osbourne was in a Venom comic book as like the president. You have all of the elements to pull the curtain off of Venom and then you don't. Now look, I work in marketing. I don't need to give Jody and George advice, but this was just a pretty sad marketing move on their part. And here's why, because as much as Stern Pinball likes to think it's a lifestyle brand and people outside of pinball care about them, they don't. And they used all of their marketing channels to get us excited about Ozzy Osbourne being at their booth, about Todd McFarlane being there, and then there was no payoff. Like the last thing you want to do in marketing is get people's expectations up that they're going to see something exciting, and then it was just nothing. At noon on Friday at Comic-Con, all they did was sign autographs. Wow, great job Stern. You came back and did absolutely nothing interesting. Now, do I think there's going to be an Ozzy Osbourne pinball machine down the road because of this? No. They've done this before with like Slayer and other things. I think this is just Jody Dankberg being like, I don't know, like we can do this. Let's just do it even if it doesn't make total sense. Is it a big deal? No. Do people care that much? No. Is it forgettable? Yes. Like a week later, no one will care that they were there. This won't sell them more pinball machines and that's that. Alright, so it begs the question, when are we going to see Venom? When are we going to see it? Are we going to see it in August? Hey people, it's August next week. So Stern said like months ago, we are going to come back with our next cornerstone game in August. So I fully expect us to see Stern's next game probably the end of this month, maybe early September. But it's coming, it's around the corner, and yes, it's going to be Brian Eddy's Venom, it's going to have Zombietti on artwork, And I think it's going to come out like any week now. The other thing too, like with it being August is I think this month is going to be pretty much a dead month. I don't think you're going to see any major announcements. I think you might see Cactus Canyon L.E.'s come out finally. I have no idea what's going on over there. Arguably the worst launch in pinball history. Arguably. It was the sloppiest launch ever. And the fact that he's making people wait almost a year to get their product, it's really lame. It really is lame. Think about it like this. It's August. They should have waited to Expo 2022 and then reveal the game and have like 500 of them built in boxes ready to go and they all would have shipped out that weekend. Why did they reveal it a year ago? Makes absolutely no sense. All right, what else is going on? We're waiting on CGC. Spooky's finishing up the run of Ultraman and Halloween's and then we're going to get some TNAs and then we're on to Scooby Doo. We know about that. What else is going on? Haggis. I'm your host, David David Van Es, and I'll see you next time on the Haggis Pinball Podcast. I hope you get your games. You can't get your money back, so I hope you get your games. From what I'm hearing, it's a very, very slow burn. And it's feeling eerily similar. I'm just going to say this. It's feeling very eerily similar to what happened with another boutique company. You know the name, but I'm not going to say anything more. Now, I revealed on my last show that Marty's original theme might be the War of the Worlds. Will it be the Orson Welles War of the Worlds? The public domain theme that anybody can make. It's in public domain. He can use it. I don't know. Like Damien has said that Centaur is next and then Marty's game would be after that. I would just be really nervous if I was one of you series ticket holders that gave like $4,500 for the next four or five games and it's non-refundable. I just don't know how they're going to make money doing it this way. We're still not transparent about how many games they're making a week. We don't even know how many fathoms they've made to date. Let me just ask them that. Marty and Damian, will you please tell the pinball community, because you're over a year delayed on getting the games out, will you please tell us how many fathoms to date you have made? If that is a secret, I think that is a huge red flag. Why is it a secret? Marty, you have a podcast. You go on your podcast and you hardly say anything about the company that you work for, the company that took non-refundable deposits from people. Can you please just tell us as of August of next week, how many fathoms have been made to date? That should not be a secret. People gave you money. You've been asking people to pay in full for a while and I don't like the fact that they They are keeping all of this a secret. Because it doesn't even matter, Marty and Damien. Nobody can get their money back. So at least just come clean now and tell us the reality. Tell people what they can expect. And I don't need to hear from the fanboys on Pinside who are spending $1,700 to air freight their games. That doesn't say anything. That doesn't symbolize anything. Because it might just be one or two games a week. And if they have to make $250, do the math, people. Alright what else is going on in pinball Well I didn want to talk about deeproot again but my gosh This thing just won die Like deeproot is this entity that has like not just nine lives like 900 lives So yesterday thedeeproot.com had a countdown clock on it that ran out and it was revealed to the world that the person behind it and the person behind the puzzles was no other than Chris Turner of Turner Logic and Chris worked at deeproot pinball with Robert Mueller We're on all of these games. He's a software and a mechanical engineer guy, and here's what he revealed to us, that he was here to tell us that he caught the pinball bug while working with Deeproot Pinball, and while he's sad nobody will get to see the fruits of his labor, that he is going to go on a journey to make his own pinball machines. Have you fallen back in your chair yet? I tried to give him advice and he deleted my comments twice on his YouTube channel. He's off to a good start. The mistake number one you can make is try to avoid Kaneda's Pinball Podcast when you're trying to launch your boutique company. But we all know one thing, that Chris Turner and his mission to make a pinball company will not be successful. I'm not like the rest of you. I see people on YouTube being like, good luck, you've got my support. No people. Wake up. This guy is not going to be able to make a pinball company. How many times do we have to see these people who know nothing about pinball manufacturing, Thinking they can make a pinball manufacturing company. And the advice I gave this guy is the most solid advice he'll ever get. He is into software and mechanical engineering. He has a skill set that one company who knows how to manufacture needs. And that company is Spooky Pinball. And so Chris Turner, don't be silly bro, call up Charlie Emery and work with him on improving Spring of Fast B minds I love how these guys are all like, I'm not taking any money. Okay, cool. You're going to personally finance a pinball manufacturing company and that's been successful how many times? Zero. Zero. Nobody personally has financed a pinball endeavor that's ever worked. Stern pinball has huge investors. Jersey Jack has huge investors. Everyone else is bankrolled either by another part of the business or some ancillary business or they do pre-order dollars. I don't know how rich Chris Turner is, but bro, I'm telling you right now, starting a pinball company is the fastest way to turn a few million into a few hundred dollars. And that's what's going to happen. And look, just watching the video of the guy like interviewing the dude who solved the puzzle, I just kind of felt bad for all of them. It's like he doesn't understand. Why would he do this? Like why would he play a game with the deeproot URL as a way to launch his initiative? I'm going to tell you right now. I don't find it funny. So many people lost money with deeproot and Chris Turner. Guess who paid your salary all of those years you were working at deeproot? It was stolen money from old ladies who were investing in deeproot funds. They didn't know who you were. They didn't know what pinball was. And I think everyone involved with deeproot pinball, not just Chris Turner, but anyone over there, shut up, go away. We don't want to hear from you. We don't think it's funny. We don't want to be playful with the deeproot URL. I think everyone needs to show respect to the people who got their lives savings burned by Robert Mueller. He was a fraud. He was a charlatan. He was a criminal. And you all worked for a criminal. And I'm not asking you to take the same blame as him, but I don't want to play games with the deeproot URL as a cute way to announce your pinball journey that you think is going to be fun. It's not going to be fun, Chris Turner. It's going to crash and burn like every other pinball venture that is created by people like this. They're delusional. I don't know what it is about pinball that gets people who make a few dollars in another industry that makes them think they can open a manufacturing company. It is a blue collar job that requires decades of experience. If Chris Turner wants to know how to manufacture, then go take a job on the line at Stern Pinball. Go take a job on the line at Spooky Pinball. You don't know what you're talking about bro. You have never manufactured anything. And again, I might be a little stride in here because you deleted my comments, but Kaneda won and Turner Pinball zero. All right, I'm all fired up. Wow, Kaneda, you're not championing a new pinball venture? Well, that's everyone else's job. Everyone else just loves everything happening in pinball. But I'm just a realist people. It's a joke. And I don't ever want to talk about deeproot or Turner pinball again. Like when are we going to hear from him? Like five years from now, when he tries to bring out Raza and Food Truck. All right, everybody, we're back. Kaneda's back. John's still not talking to me. Are we gonna see the illegal topper from Godzilla today? Who knows? Who knows? I'll make it up with him. He know you can't stay mad at Kaneda forever. I mean, that's the thing. You just, you can't, you can't do it. I'll eventually wear you down. What's the phrase? I'll grow on you again. Like I will, like this show's a lot of fun. I wanna thank you guys for the support. I enjoy doing it every week. I know you enjoy listening. We'll be back with more episodes of Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. I think it's going to be a little bit of a slow August. It's going to be everyone begging you to buy Toy Stories. That's going to be the story of August. All the dealers begging you to buy their Toy Stories. And then we're going to see Venom, and then we're going to see Galactic Tank Force or whatever David Fix has coming down the pipeline. And that's it. Nothing happening right now. Let's focus on getting value from these manufacturers. I think that's the key. I think everyone's woken up. I think it's a brand new community out there. Once you start charging over $10,000, people wake up more. They start to pay more attention and they start to demand more in these games and that's a good thing. And that's the drum we all should be beating. We will pay this money manufacturers, but you got to give us more. You can't just give us a game like that. Everybody have a great day. I'll talk to you soon. What's wrong with the world, world, world, yeah, we only got one world, one world, that's all we got, one world, one world.

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 1fe85556-b714-42a1-905b-d713e53bde5b*