# Dirty Pool Podcast - Ep16 - Into the Rainbow With Mark Seiden at Jersey Jack Pinball

**Source:** Dirtypool Pinball  
**Type:** video  
**Published:** 2025-09-02  
**Duration:** 64m 48s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTg1tmyxjeg

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## Analysis

Mark Seiden, designer of Jersey Jack Pinball's Avatar, discusses his journey from homebrew Metroid designer streaming on Twitch to being hired by JJP in 2021. He covers his mentorship under Steve Ritchie on Elton John, the technical challenges of designing Avatar's dense playfield, licensing interactions with Disney/Lightstorm, and his philosophy on balancing world-immersion with pinball accessibility. The conversation emphasizes Jersey Jack's RGB lighting approach, community feedback reception, and design decisions like mode naming conventions.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Mark Seiden was hired by Jersey Jack Pinball in October 2021 after being contacted on Facebook by Eric Meunier — _Direct quote from Mark discussing his recruitment call and subsequent interviews with Pat Lawlor and JJP team_
- [HIGH] Avatar's playfield layout was deliberately dense with multiple ramps, saucers, and scoops requiring extensive CAD work to avoid mechanical conflicts — _Mark describes using Solid Works to test spatial constraints and moving mounting points to avoid conflicts_
- [MEDIUM] James Cameron personally approved the crab suit dance animation in Avatar — _Mark states 'I heard um that James Cameron himself actually really liked the crab suit dance' - secondhand account_
- [HIGH] Lightstorm (James Cameron's production company) had final say on Avatar licensing approval, with Disney as a first line of defense — _Mark explains licensing structure: 'Lightstorm had like the final say on everything in this project. Um, uh, Disney was sort of like the first line of defense.'_
- [HIGH] Jersey Jack hired union voice actors for Avatar callouts via an agency that filtered 600 responses — _Mark describes casting process: 'we got 600 responses' and 'the agency we used, they um, they narrowed it down for us'_
- [HIGH] The Akula sea creature originally planned for the Scramp mech was cut due to licenser objection and spatial constraints — _Mark explains: 'between licenser not really wanting that and space-wise it didn't really work'_
- [HIGH] JJP's internal recommendation to Mark was not to read Pinside forums, though he does anyway — _Direct quote: 'their recommendation was actually don't read Pinside internally'_
- [HIGH] Avatar's mode names are intentionally world-forward rather than pinball-forward per licenser preference — _Mark states: 'this is what the licenser kind of wanted. They wanted it to be very in world'_

### Notable Quotes

> "I realized nobody was like designing pinball on Twitch. So, I had decided like I'm going to I'm just going to make a game on Twitch and like that's going to be my streaming thing."
> — **Mark Seiden**, Early in interview
> _Explains his origin story and what differentiated his homebrew streaming approach_

> "I want to be a game designer. Like, um, and he's like, 'Cool. Um, I was hoping he would say that.'"
> — **Mark Seiden**, Discussing JJP recruitment call
> _Shows immediate alignment between Mark's ambitions and JJP's hiring needs_

> "Yeah, you kind of remind me of me. you're a software guy who uh made a game in your garage and you want to be a pinball designer."
> — **Pat Lawlor (as quoted by Mark)**, During JJP interview process
> _Legendary designer Pat Lawlor drawing parallels to his own career path, validating Mark's approach_

> "I always want to make changes, so it's it's usually time."
> — **Mark Seiden**, Discussing design freeze decisions
> _Reveals the practical constraint of production timelines over perfectionism_

> "James Cameron himself actually really liked the crab suit dance."
> — **Mark Seiden**, Discussing animation approval
> _High-profile approval from IP holder of Avatar's creative choices_

> "I wanted to avoid anything that was sort of like the old game as much as possible uh to sort of make it a new thing."
> — **Mark Seiden**, Discussing AMP suit design vs Stern's Avatar
> _Shows intentional differentiation from prior Avatar pinball release_

> "the people that make pinball love pinball and if you're going to say something that's toxic, like why don't you pump the brakes a second and take a moment to it?"
> — **Jeff Dodson (Dirty Pool host)**, Community feedback discussion
> _Commentary on respectful discourse within passionate pinball community_

> "I could have like keep that in mind for future things. Like if it's a title that is not as familiar as say like a Star Wars or something, you know, it's um like um you got to you got to sort of guide them into the world a little easier."
> — **Mark Seiden**, Discussing mode naming feedback
> _Shows willingness to adapt design philosophy based on community criticism_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Mark Seiden | person | Designer of Avatar at Jersey Jack Pinball; former homebrew Metroid designer; recruited to JJP in 2021 after streaming pinball design on Twitch; mentored by Steve Ritchie on Elton John |
| Avatar | game | Jersey Jack Pinball machine based on James Cameron's Avatar IP; features dense playfield, custom animations, union voice acting, and intentionally world-immersive mode naming |
| Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Pinball manufacturer known for RGB lighting, premium animations, and licensed IP titles; employer of Mark Seiden |
| Steve Ritchie | person | Legendary pinball designer at Jersey Jack; mentored Mark Seiden on Elton John; known for mechanical design expertise |
| Elton John | game | Jersey Jack Pinball game; frequently cited as one of JJP's best titles; featured pop bumpers/jets; Mark Seiden assisted Steve Ritchie with CAD conversion and design elements like Rocket Man shot |
| Eric Meunier | person | Jersey Jack Pinball staff member who contacted Mark Seiden via Facebook in 2021 to recruit him; conducted initial interview about design work |
| Pat Lawlor | person | Legendary pinball designer at Jersey Jack; interviewed Mark during recruitment; drew parallels between Mark's garage-built approach and his own career |
| Metroid | game | Nintendo IP; subject of Mark Seiden's homebrew pinball machine built during Twitch streaming; featured Twitch chat integration allowing subscribers to reverse flippers or teleport player |
| Jeff Dodson | person | Host of Dirty Pool Podcast; conducted this interview with Mark Seiden; manages pinball content creation and community engagement |
| Lightstorm Entertainment | company | James Cameron's production company; had final approval authority on Avatar pinball game design and IP usage |
| Disney | company | IP licensor for Avatar; served as first line of defense in approval process for Jersey Jack's Avatar pinball, with Lightstorm having final say |
| Jean-Paul DeWin | person | Animation and art director at Jersey Jack Pinball; led Avatar's animation team that created custom and movie-sourced assets |
| Taylor | person | Jersey Jack Pinball software team member; described as young and new to pinball software but excellent at light show design; created solar eclipse and multiball light show effects for Avatar |
| Steven Lang | person | Video game voice actor; provided primary voice acting for Avatar callouts; union actor whose involvement required union casting call process |
| Crystal Gamitch | person | Jersey Jack Pinball staff member; recorded placeholder voice callouts for Avatar including a notable bland 'tilt' callout |
| Stern Avatar | game | Prior Avatar pinball release by Stern featuring over-engineered AMP suit mech; Mark deliberately avoided mirroring design choices from this game |
| Cammy | person | Avatar collector in Tasmania; immediate streamer of Avatar after receiving it; discovered Easter egg about August 24th birthday callout |
| Fusion 360 | product | CAD software that Mark Seiden knew before joining JJP; had to learn Solid Works upon hire |
| Solid Works | product | CAD software used by Jersey Jack Pinball; Mark Seiden uses it for mechanical design and spatial constraint testing on Avatar playfield |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Game Designer Recruitment and Career Path, Homebrew-to-Commercial Designer Transition, Avatar Playfield Design and Mechanical Engineering, IP Licensing and Approval Process
- **Secondary:** Jersey Jack RGB Lighting and Animation, Community Feedback and Criticism Reception, Voice Acting and Audio Production, Design Balance Between IP Immersion and Pinball Accessibility

### Sentiment

**Positive** (0.82) — Mark speaks enthusiastically about his game, his mentorship experience, and the Avatar project. Host expresses genuine appreciation for Avatar and defends against community criticism. Some acknowledgment of design compromises and negative feedback, but framed constructively as learning opportunities. No significant negativity or conflict.

### Signals

- **[community_signal]** Jersey Jack internally advises designers not to read Pinside forums, though Mark Seiden does anyway and uses legitimate criticism to inform future design decisions (confidence: high) — Mark: 'their recommendation was actually don't read Pinside internally. Yeah. um uh I still do it, but um probably shouldn't'
- **[event_signal]** Avatar features extensive voice casting via union agency with 600 responses filtered to find appropriate talent for James Cameron universe (confidence: high) — Mark describes: 'we got 600 responses... fortunately the agency we used, they um, they narrowed it down for us'
- **[design_philosophy]** Avatar's convoluted mode names (derived from movie terminology rather than pinball-friendly naming) generated community feedback; Mark acknowledges this as a compromise between IP immersion and accessibility (confidence: high) — Mark states: 'this is what the licenser kind of wanted. They wanted it to be very in world' but also acknowledges should 'guide them into the world a little easier' in future designs
- **[design_philosophy]** Mark Seiden intentionally avoided replicating Stern's Avatar AMP suit mech design, choosing to create something entirely new for JJP version (confidence: high) — Mark states: 'I wanted to avoid anything that was sort of like the old game as much as possible uh to sort of make it a new thing.'
- **[market_signal]** Homebrew pinball designers streaming on Twitch can attract commercial manufacturer attention; talent pipeline from Twitch streaming to professional game design at major manufacturers (confidence: medium) — Mark's recruitment story demonstrates viable career pathway; he notes 'nobody was like designing pinball on Twitch' before his approach, suggesting he pioneered this visibility strategy
- **[licensing_signal]** Disney/Lightstorm approval process for Avatar pinball involved detailed feedback on animations, with Lightstorm having final decision authority; James Cameron personally approved crab suit dance sequence (confidence: high) — Mark describes Lightstorm as having 'final say on everything' and states 'James Cameron himself actually really liked the crab suit dance'
- **[personnel_signal]** Mark Seiden transitioned from homebrew Metroid designer/Twitch streamer to full-time game designer at Jersey Jack Pinball in October 2021 (confidence: high) — Direct statement: 'at some point uh in uh 2021 um uh I got a Facebook message from Eric Eric Meunier' leading to hiring as game designer
- **[product_strategy]** Avatar features intentional Easter eggs including birthday callouts for team members, discovered by community (e.g., Cammy's August 24th discovery) (confidence: high) — Mark confirms: 'There's Oh, yeah. That's in there for sure. Um, yeah, that was my idea to do that. Um, it's uh there's there's actually a few different dates that do it like for um people on the team's birthdays'
- **[product_strategy]** Avatar's design process involved multiple iterations and last-minute manufacturability adjustments up to production start (confidence: high) — Mark states changes were made 'as we were starting to build them actually' for manufacturability concerns
- **[technology_signal]** Jersey Jack Pinball using Solid Works CAD software for mechanical design; newer designers trained in Fusion 360 required to transition to company standard (confidence: high) — Mark: 'I came in knowing Fusion 360 but I had to learn Solid Works um for Yeah. because they use Solid Works there'

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## Transcript

What's going on everybody? Welcome to episode 16 of the Dirty Pool podcast. Hopefully our bandwidth and everything is super happy. Everything's in the green. Everything's looking fine. I'm pretty happy about that. Uh, thank you everybody who's joined. I'm here with Today's a very special day as every day on the pool podcast is. I've got my rainbow lights flashing right now. And why do I have my rainbow lights flashing? because I am talking to the the king of RGB lights, Jersey Jack Pinball. I'm joined by Mark Seiden, designer of Avatar, homebrew, uh Metroid, uh Legend, right? Can we say that? Can we say Legend? 

 Yeah, I guess. 

 Uh contributor to Elton John, which was new to me. Uh thank you so much for joining me, Mark. 

 Thanks. Thanks so much for having me. 

 Uh so I I have been looking forward to speaking to somebody from Jersey Jack for a while, just because I think that that's not something I cover a lot on the channel. Uh, and Avatar is a game that I really like. And I'm going to put that out there right off the bat, just because one of the reasons that I had requested to speak to you was that I wanted an opportunity for people to hear more about what went into Avatar to give it a chance cuz I think that it's an underrated game. Um, so without further ado on that, we can see Avatar over over your shoulder. Uh, can you can you tell me a little bit about let's start with how you got involved with Jersey Jack? I know that you you worked on the Metroid Pinball and then Jack was like, "Whoa, what's this?" 

 Yeah. So, um yeah, I've been working on um I had been streaming pinball and like there's a lot of pin people streaming pinball. I realized nobody was like designing pinball on Twitch. So, I had decided like I'm going to I'm just going to make a game on Twitch and like that's going to be my streaming thing. So, um sort of just switched over to that and like I didn't really have a theme in mind. Um, but um I love the Metroid series and actually my it was my youngest brother who suggested that cuz um some of the parts I was using were some old Jurassic Park the data east one part and one of them was like the the mechanical um uh what do you call it the the dinosaur that eats the ball. Um and it was it didn't have like the outside. It was just like a rusty husk of it. So like he looked at I was like, "Oh, that could be Craig. It' be make a Metroid game." Like, "Oh, that's awesome." Didn't end up using that because the the mech didn't work. But um but then yeah. So yeah. So just uh a few years just building a game on the internet. Um uh and just being really public about what I'm doing. Um keeping uh threads um posted, posting stuff on Facebook, things like that. So um my name was out there. And then um at some point uh in uh 2021 um uh I got a Facebook message from Eric Eric Menure and he was like, "Hey, uh do you want to talk pinball?" And I'm like, "Yes, yes, I want to talk pinball." 

 Uh yeah. So, um, he called me up and, um, we talked for about an hour just about, you know, pinball stuff and the design, my work on Metroid. And, um, uh, at the end of the call, he's like, "So, would you be interested in any role at Jersey Jack Pinball?" And I was just like instantly like, "I want to be a game designer." Like, um, and he's like, "Cool. Um, I was hoping he would say that. uh I'll talk to some people here and uh I'll get back to you. 

 Yeah. So, um ended up putting together like a 64 page of like pictures and descriptions of everything I did sort of like as my resume cuz you know a normal resume doesn't really do anything for you like if you're 

 and it's hard to it's hard to show off your design ability without actually trying to commit to a homebrew. I mean, I think, you know, a lot of people wonder like, "Well, how do I get into pinball or how do I break into it?" And it's like, you kind of just got to do it yourself so that somebody sees what you're doing, right? 

 Yeah. I mean, that's really the only way you can do it. I mean, you don't go to school to learn how to design pinball machines. Like, uh, 

 no, but someone should open a school that does that, right? 

 That you're right. Yeah. 

 Talk to the powers that educational powers to be that make that happen. I mean, I know there are some sometimes a professor will have like uh a game that they're like, "Oh, you can create custom code for it and stuff like that, but it's not really a common thing." 

 No. 

 Um, so yeah, my put that together. Um, I ended up uh talking with Pat Lawler, talking with the software team and whatnot. Um, actually talking with Pat like at the end he's like, "Yeah, you kind of remind me of me. you're a software guy who uh made a game in your garage and you want to be a pinball designer. Um well, I'll talk to some more people here and get back to you. And like I hung up with that. I was like, I think I might have the job. Like 

 that's got to feel so good. 

 Yeah. Yeah. 

 Uh so, as you know, or may not know, we do this is live and we do field questions from chat. Instagram, if you have questions, I'm sorry I don't have that pulled up, but if you're on Twitch and YouTube, uh send it on over. Uh so, Wolfman said that that you had Twitch integration with your Metroid. Is that true? 

 Oh, yeah. yeah. 

 Oh, please. Let's talk about that. 

 So, yeah. Um, whenever I was streaming it, uh, doing play testing, um, there are a few different things it could do. It just, it read chat, so it signed into my chat. Um, and uh, if um, somebody uh, subscribed um, it would randomly either reverse my flippers on me or um, teleport me somewhere else in the map cuz uh, Metroid's sort of like a dungeon crawler game like so I would just like it would like sort of mess up my progress. Although every once in a while that was a good thing like it would send me near the boss or something like 

 um yeah um it would also put the chat on the the screen so I didn't have to keep going over here and checking chat all the time and so it just show up and whatnot. 

 So it was both useful for you and also useful for chat to mess with you. 

 Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And then there was another thing. I kept this off a lot of the time, but uh for bits, uh if you donate it like uh you could set the number like how how many bits would trigger it. Um but uh it would add a ball to my game for a certain number of bits. So they could just sort of like keep uh messing with you. Um 

 yeah, go Oh, you mean like throw a ball in, not like give you an extra ball? 

 No, No, no. Yeah, it would you'd be playing with two balls all of a sudden. 

 Gotcha. Yeah. And like uh I found like if you put that low enough, people would just like throw all their bits at you like and but it usually break the game. But 

 that's a win for everybody. That's amazing. I mean, I feel like a lot of pinball, you know, the thing with Scorbit and stuff. There's There's a lot of like untapped uh integration, I think, with a lot of the like software that Homebrew people are doing. And I'll say Twitch integration, but Twitch also has no idea what the hell they're doing with pinball. I mean, they already messed up our pinball channel by m making the the channel link like break on everybody. Um 

 Oh, really? 

 Oh, yeah. That's a that's a different story for another day. Um, but that's really cool. And I feel like your your origin of starting with doing it as a part of the Twitch integration started, you know, you're doing it on Twitch to begin with. So, you're like, "Hey, I'm going to design this game, so I might as well build that integration into it." That's really neat. 

 Yeah. Yeah. And I was just sort of playing around with it. Nobody had done it at that point. Um, now I know P3 has uh integrated that too. 

 Yeah, Joe mentioned that here. 

 Yeah. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it was it was a cool little idea like just to play around with and it it I it really like was more made the game like more fun with the audience and stuff like that. I thought 

 it is it is super fun to interact with Chad. So, you mentioned that you had a hand in uh Elton John to me when we started. So, when when you started working at Jersey Jack, were they just like Well, this is a little spoiler, a little preview. When I was talking to Jack, Jack told me that he was like, I that he gave you the Avatar license and was just like, take your team, do whatever the hell you want, like rains off and and make the best goddamn game you can basically. And I think that's pretty awesome. That's got to be that's got to feel good as a first- time designer to just to have that kind of freedom to do whatever. 

 Um, but rolling it back before we get there, what was your first role at Jersey Jack? 

 So, uh, I was basically, um, they put me with Steve to sort of mentor me. um and like what he knew and sort of knowledge transfer what he what he would do and stuff like that. Um I was um I what sort of what I brought to the table is I knew CAD software uh so um 

 Solid Works or what's your platform? 

 Uh I came in knowing Fusion 360 but I had to learn Solid Works um for Yeah. because they use Solid Works there. Um, so, um, he he designs old school with the the 2D, uh, AutoCAD, um, software. Um, so, uh, I would just, um, take his, uh, drawings, um, put it into CAD and, uh, then he could like come in like fly around here and like see how how much space I have and like things like that. So um uh it was very helpful early on where um uh I was basically his first mechanical engineer uh or sort of something like a mechanical engineer. Um 

 this is when you were helping with him on Elton John, correct? 

 Yeah, this is Elton John. Yeah. Yeah. Um so yeah, so different things. Um the that whole like what how much room do I have here that got the squeezed in the backstage shot. Um he was like looking at it one day, wasn't sure he could do anything there. He's like, "Oh, I can absolutely do something there." Um, and uh, like um, another thing I helped out with was like the um, the Rocket Man shot. Um, he had been um, going through a bunch of ideas and um, finally was like, yeah, just cut it off here and we'll figure it out later. Uh, so I went home, I thought about I was like, wouldn't it be cool if it like spiraled under the ramp? Um, so I did that and it actually went under the plastic ramp. It was different from the final one. and I showed him that and he loved it, but he was like, "I can't really it's not really manufacturable stuff like that." So, he turned it into up and into the the back left ramp the way it it actually uh shipped. So, 

 if if you're not a music fan pin fan, I definitely recommend Elton John is frequently referred to as one of the best Jersey Jack games and and I think it has that kind of uh it has that the what do you call it? 

 People believe that because it's true. 

 It's just fun. Yeah, it really is. It's a blast. The flow on it is really no joke. Uh in an era where people aren't putting pop bumpers in games, there's pop bumpers in it. They're even called jets. Get it? 

 Uh the jet get it? Yeah. 

 Yeah. Mine's actually a prototype. 

 Oh, really? 

 Yeah. It's got a 3D printed out and a bunch of inserts labeled incorrectly. 

 Awesome. It makes it it makes it more unique and rare, right? 

 Exactly. Um, so I feel like a lot of the design people don't think about space when they come to like designing a pinball machine, right? Like you have to think both space on top and under the playfield because these mechanics need to attach some place underneath. You can't just stack solenoids on top of solenoids. 

 Um, and and jumping over to Avatar, there's a lot of [ __ ] going on in the back. I mean, that is like a very dense dense intricate kind of weaving playfield area where there's a lot of ramps up and below and saucers and scoops and all sorts of good stuff. Uh, so walk me through some of the oh [ __ ] moments when you started to like go into laying out the playfield for Avatar. 

 Right. So yeah, it's um yeah, you're right. It's just uh just trying to make everything work and fit um was challenging would be an good way to describe it. Um, so like, um, a lot of the like it's it's I used a little bit of the ideas from Metroid in the back and just sort of like said, "All right, I know this works here. I know this works here, but then I can change this and squeeze some stuff in here." Um, but actually getting everything to fit, you just sort of like drag stuff around in CAD and like you can see in the bottom, oh, this is going to conflict with this. It's going to be conflict with this. Oh, I have to move this mounting point over here so it doesn't conflict with that. Um, I need to use a back mounted uh target here instead of a front mounted target because there's can't no room to put it in the front. Um, uh, so um, doing it laying it out in uh, like Solid Works has been was really helpful for like just squeezing it in. And then there's the other problem of like does it shoot good? So, like if you have to like change a shot up, like, all right, well, how do I move this over here and how do I move that over there and without breaking the other thing? And um 

 where's where's that moment where you're you're on the whitewood, you're at whatever revision where you're just like, this is it. Like this is the game right now. Like we do not iterate on it more, whether it be because of time or whether you just feel like this is the game that you want to print. 

 I mean, I I always want to make changes, so it's it's usually time. Um, but we still make changes for some stuff right up to as as far as as close to shipping as we um make sense to do before cutting it off. Um, 

 do you remember what the last change that was made for Avatar before it went out the door? 

 Uh, I think it was as we were starting to build them actually. We I don't remember what it was, but it's like, oh uh that's that wasn't as manufacturable as we thought it would be type of thing. No joke up to the last minute then, huh? 

 Yeah. 

 So, we got a few questions. We got Roller Coasters wants to know if you had any Did you help with the rules and game coding concept, especially because you have a software background? 

 Um, I actually didn't do uh really any coding on this. Um, I did go to uh Keith P. Johnson's software boot camp cuz uh when we hired a couple new developers. Um, so I have an idea of how the platform works. Um, 

 how many push-ups do you have to do in software boot camp? 

 Yeah, none unfortunately. Uh but you have to learn all about like how the real time uh platform for Jersey Jack pinball system works. 

 That sounds less nice. 

 Yeah. Um so it's uh yeah I didn't I didn't actually I don't have time. It's pretty much um but I did like go in I I was playing around with trying to make a track mode light shows. Uh, I didn't I've made some work, but I didn't really think they were as cool as the ones that um the software guys were doing. So, I ended up out um but as far as rules, yeah, it's a team effort. Um uh um I I contributed all the rules. Um Keith uh took is the lead on that. Um but um of course they're not going to say, "No, Mark, you can't do that." Like, well, sometimes they do, but 

 why shouldn't they? Yeah, you can tell anybody. No. 

 I mean, I guess they don't want to do that since you are trying to design the best game you possibly can. But, 

 uh, you mentioned lighting. We have to talk about lighting. 

 Yeah, 

 we got to do it. 

 Can't talk about Jersey Jack without talking about absolute rainbow fluorescent RGB vomit, right? So, 

 who who is responsible for ensuring that every game is the Skittles of of LED lights? Um, that's up to the the lead software what like shows they want to put in. Um, like this one doesn't actually doesn't have the rainbow show in it. Um, 

 I know that's one of the reasons it's my favorite Jersey Jack pinball machine. 

 Um, I didn't think it made sense for the for the theme. Um, other themes it makes total sense like Wizard of Oz that makes total sense. 

 Totally. 

 That one for sure. 

 So, um, yeah. So, we we went for with some other stuff. Um, some more in uh some tried to do some new stuff. Um, but it's it's um I I like shout out to Taylor uh on the software team. He um uh he is uh very young uh new to uh pinball software, but he is excellent all around, but especially on light shows like u a lot of those cool light shows that that are um 

 I mean the uh like solar eclipse, I mean the light shows that start off with the before the multiballs. Yeah, other than the fact that I feel like I think the only real criticism which I do agree with is that some of the mode names are so convoluted because they are with what the actual name from the movies are that it's it's hard to remember them. But when it comes to art and package integration, I mean the the theme is so well integrated. Everything from the art design from side art to the back glass, the animations Jack's always had probably some of the best animations I think in the pinball ecosystem. Um, but the ones for Avatar are really good. the even the custom ones that aren't, you know, original film assets look so close. They look like they might as well, you know, they're all part of the same universe. 

 Yeah, JP Dwin and his team are great. Um, so like some of that stuff is um actually the the custom stuff is actually 3D models from the movies. 

 Nice. That's cool that they gave you those assets. 

 Yeah. So like they sent us like multiple gigabytes full size like crab suit models and uh you could like zoom into every bolt and see every detail on it. 

 Nice. 

 Um like for example like the crab does a dance after you or after it defeats you, right? So 

 is the approval process require you sending that to them and being like hey is it okay that we make your crab suit dance like it's pinball. Come on. 

 And how does how does that feedback go generally? Um, so, um, we work with, uh, Disney and Lighttorm and, um, they gave us feedback whether or not they like it or not. Um, it seemed like Lighttorm had like the final say on everything in this project. Um, uh, Disney was sort of like the first line of defense. Um, so 

 for people that aren't following, what is, can you say what Lighttorm is? 

 Oh, Lightstorm is uh, James Cameron's production company. Um, and uh, so we were working with their team. Uh they actually have like it's I forget his official title, but he's basically like the lore master for the uh for the world. So we work with him a bunch on um what we can do and stuff like that. But u actually I heard um that James Cameron himself actually really liked the crab dance. So 

 all right, there you go. It's James. Yeah. Yeah. 

 Yeah. The The most sane man in film. Um, so, so you put all these assets together, the game comes out. What, how do you, how do you handle this, the like the the excitement/fear like my new game is out there, people are going to be playing it, it's feedback time. I don't know if you've been on Reddit or pinside. There's some real meanies out there. 

 I've noticed. Yeah. 

 Yeah. How did So, let's talk about that. 

 Yeah. Yeah. So I was I was I mean like I don't expect everybody to like every game like so I was I was sort of like prepared mentally for it. Um but um yeah u their their recommendation was actually don't read Pinside internally. 

 Yeah. um uh I still do it, but um probably shouldn't, but um I feel like I should know even the bad stuff is I can filter out like, "Oh, this guy just uh he just doesn't like us or something like that." Uh but there's a lot of good criticism out there that 

 Well, the reason I the reason I ask is the reason that you do go to Pinside, I imagine, is because you love your game. You're excited that you want to see people enjoying it, right? you're going to pin not to police, but to to see the people enjoying your game. And I think that for all those meanies out there, that's like kind of something to take to heart that the people that are designing and making these pinball machines are doing it because they want to see people enjoy them. They want to really bring something to the community and stuff. So, you know, when you say something shitty like you're just being an [ __ ] and that Oh, there's there's memes on top of me. What the hell? I thought that was below this layer. Don't get out of here memes. God damn it. Anyways, uh yeah, the people that make pinball love pinball and if you're going to say something that's toxic, like why don't you pump the brakes a second and take a moment to think about it? But as you said, there is legitimate criticism out there. So, what's one thing that you read that you were like, "Fuck, that's a good point and I should think about that incorporating or moving forward on future designs." Um I I' I do understand the um I don't understand what these mode names are and stuff like that. Um it had been brought up internally uh but it's sort of like well that's what they're called and 

 right what can you do that's the name 

 it was my decision to push forward with that. Um, maybe I could have like keep that in mind for future things. Like if it's a title that is not as familiar as say like a Star Wars or something, you know, it's um like um you got to you got to sort of guide them into the world a little easier. You can't just throw them in. But on the other hand, this is what the licenser kind of wanted. They wanted it to be very in world. And um so I'm trying to balance what is good for pinball which is and with and what is good for the IP, 

 right? Uh, so, um, I I did I did take that to heart is like cuz that was my decision. And, um, it's like I know I can't necessarily stop doing that, but I can keep it in mind and maybe make it a little more pinball forward versus world forward in the future. 

 But there's lots of people that really do love being sucked into the world. So, I mean, I feel like to make one decision, you have to upset a certain set of people and make another set of people happy with every choice. is that is the problem. Yeah. How do you balance it? Try to get 

 right 

 something. You can't get something for everyone, but try to get the the most people on board. Yeah. 

 So, I feel like a lot of design mentality is to have a shot or a thing in the game that pretty much any skill level of person can do, right? What is the thing on Avatar that you think is like, okay, this is the the beginner level thing that everyone can trigger, no problem. I think uh stage one of the um uh the the Aatlu multiball uh the lower playfields. I think that's fairly straightforward. If it's open, shoot it in there. 

 Uh maybe not. Uh and um obvious how to open it up, but um but if it's open, oh, I'm down here. I'm down the lower play field. And then you just got the first the first level of that is we made that super easy. Like so that's the that's sort of like the I can I can reach this anyone can get this multiball 

 right 

 is what we're going for for that. Um so I think that's and that and it shows off like the the two cool lower playfields and um 

 which they are very cool. 

 Yeah. Uh Cammy is here and she had been waiting for her avatar out in uh Tasmania for quite a while and immediately streamed it uh for quite a while when she got it. So, 

 just a little shout out to Cammy there. 

 Um, [ __ ] All right, so rapid fire. Are you ready? Can I quiz you? Can we do Can we do a fun little rapid fire thing? 

 Can you I want you to blast me with as many Wow, that came out wrong. Blast me with as many avatar names and modes and lingo from the game as you possibly can. I just just stream of consciousness. Uh, go. 

 All right. Uh, Nati Kerry. Um, Natam. Um, au. Uh, Pandora. Uh, actually, oh, what is Oh, now I can't. 

 That's English. Hey, now. 

 Yeah, the Na'vi name for it. Uh, no, can't cheat. Um, let's see. Uh, Met Meena. Um, let's see. Uh Uh oh. Um uh uh Toro. That's 

 to like the the animal hunter. Oh, I'm [ __ ] that up now. 

 Yeah. Yeah. No, it's it's the big it's the big uh red uh thing that Jake rides. 

 Uh that's pretty good. I I'll I'll stop you there. That's impressive. Uh for for a second there, I felt like I was actually talking to the Na'vi. 

 Yeah. Yeah. So I like part of the voice acting I had to go and like figure out how everything is pronounced. Um and um so I could coach uh cuz we have a couple we have um a couple of uh they're actually video game voice actors who do some call outs and we have um Stephen Lang doing a bunch of stuff. Uh he knew he knew how to pronounce stuff 

 I'm sure. Uh the uh call outs are very excellent in the game. Uh ampsuit. Let's talk AMU. Right. So start had done an avatar game obviously and the amps suit from that game is is pretty overengineered and you know Borg really made kind of a wild piece of mechanics for it. Was there any when you were doing your amp suit that is on Avatar? Was there any discussion of like should we echo any of the design of this? Do we want to try to deviate at all? Like 

 uh I wanted to avoid anything that was sort of like the old game as much as possible uh to sort of make it a new thing. Uh, not really. 

 Um, so like AMSU's obviously one of like the things in the movie. So like trying to not like create a like a mech around that that's the same. Um, uh, was sort of like just get that out of your head and like try to like do something different and new and um, but um, 

 which is cool cuz you put a slingshot basically like smack dab in the middle of the playfield almost. Exactly. Yeah. It was that was supposed to be like uh the the amp suits fighting back with you like it pushes you away and like um whatnot. 

 Um so yeah, but I knew I needed to have an amps suit somewhere. So that's that's how that came about. 

 Um but um 

 I actually going back I wish I had looked at a little bit more because there were because Stephen Lang also did call outs for that one. So, it would have been cool to like maybe grab a couple out of there that were interesting that he had done specifically for that. But, um, by the time I realized that, it was too late. We had already recorded his lines. 

 It's true. Getting everybody back in the booth is a fiasco. Did you guys use a uh voiceover director as well, or did you just wing it with talent? Um, so we actually for the um non Stephen Lang voice actors, we uh hired a an agency to help fuzz find people. Um, we had to have union voice actors um uh because Steven's union um 

 that forces everybody to be on board the union boat. 

 So and to do that you have to put out a casting call. Um, we got 600 responses. 

 That's a lot. That's a lot of demos to go through. 

 Yeah. So, uh, fortunately the agency we used, they um, they narrowed it down for us and, um, whatnot. Um, but, um, yeah, it was it voice acting was an interesting experience. Um, 

 yeah, especially from the software side of it. I mean, that's like about polar opposite as you can get from programming when it comes to uh creative endeavor, right? 

 Yeah, we actually had um some uh placeholder call outs in there for a while. Um and one it was um uh Crystal Gamich uh works over there. Uh she um recorded a bunch of them and one was just like she just said like tilt like like just very bland tilt 

 tilt. So, like I was like, I kind of want that in the game some like one one out of every 500 times it's just Crystal saying tilt. 

 Is that actually in the game? 

 No, we didn't. 

 That's the kind of Easter eggs, you know, us pinball people go for. That's so great. 

 Maybe Maybe we'll slip it in there at some point, but 

 next update. I'm sure someone's going to ask when the next Avatar update's coming. 

 Um, Brian wants to know what your high score currently is on on Avatar. I guess on your home one, right? 

 Oh, on my home one. I don't know uh what mine is actually. Let's see. 

 Here we go. Live Live grand champion investigation happening right now. 

 Oh, pretty low on mine. Uh 

 uh 

 oh. 

 227 for mine right now. Um I I've gotten over a billion uh on other copies, but um yeah, I I invite I invite too many of my friends over who are really good at pinball. Yeah, it's always everybody else that's way better than than you owning your own game, right? 

 Um, uh, Cammy says that she loves how on August 24th it kept saying it is my birthday after all. So, there is an Easter egg in there. 

 Oh, yeah. Yep. Yep. There's Oh, yeah. That's in there for sure. Um, yeah, that was my idea to do that. Um, it's uh there's there might be actually a few different dates that do it like for um people on the team's birthdays, too. Ah, nice. Always nice to do little shout outs to the team. Mints. Uh, Roller Coasters wants to know, "Is there a mech that you wanted but couldn't get it into the game? Either from space, I'm assuming, or time." 

 Yeah. Um, the um, so the the Scramp, the front of it, the originally was going to be have like a um like a sculpt in it. Uh, and there's like this uh sea creature. It's sort of like a shark that um it's called the Akula. Um and it uh I wanted to be like it and there's a scene in the second movie where Natam is being attacked by this um creature. Uh so I kind of wanted to do that and have it like that be the start of your underwater because it's sort of mimic mimicking like the first play field is sort of like mimicking was intentionally was going to mimic uh that whole scene. Um, but it ended up um between licenser not really wanting that and space-wise it didn't really work. Um, I couldn't really have it didn't really work out. And so we um we scaled back that mech a bit uh a little bit to um the idea of it going in and going off the back was always there. Um but um having like a sculpt in there didn't work out. Um, unfortunately. Got 

 uh 

 man who says hi by the way. He says you're a boss. 

 Boss, all caps, man. That's praise. 

 Yeah. Um, one thing that I noticed about Avatar that kind of I bounced off of initially and then ended up really enjoying is that there are so many shots condensed into such a small area both with the mini upper flipper that you can reach from the lower play field that the amount of like options you have for how you progress through the game is like pretty impressive. One thing that I don't understand and I'm hoping you can clarify it right now, help me in League even though I don't think we have Avatar at Ace anymore right now. Uh, how the hell do the arrows work? 

 Oh, okay. Yeah, I can I that's easy to explain. Yes. 

 Um, so you earn arrows um on the inlanes. And um if you fall in to the in lane, you get three arrows. If you do it from a ramp, you get one. Um, and what you're doing is you're building up your bon your your shot multiplier for the next multiball andor mode. Um, depending if you stack them or not. 

 Okay. 

 U, so once you've started a mode or a multiball, now every time you flip, it goes down one notch on the uh the avatar uh on on the arrow um meter. Um, and when you run out uh on on each side, uh, it ticks down one multiplier. I think it's uh 0.25 every time. Uh, 

 so if you want to keep your multiplier up and you've run out of arrows, what's the move? 

 Yeah. So, you can also pick up your arrows if you hit a shot and then you can hit the button real quick. It'll usually say like uh I forgot what the exact call out is, but it it prompts you to hit the button. Um uh the that that's the main use of arrows. And you can also get unlimited arrows or max toxin which both affect your arrows. Those are the inlane awards done by completing the kid targets and lighting a lane and rolling through it. Unlimited arrows you never tick down. So if you're at 2.5x you're at 2.5x for the entire mode. 

 Okay. Uh, so sorry that's and max toxin automatically sets it to 4x, but if you don't have unlimited arrows on top of it, it'll tick down still. 

 Got it. 

 Okay, that's helpful. 

 And yeah, and there's another use for arrows. Um, so you can either use them for multipliers or you you can once you have three or more, you can hit the button, trade in those arrows for one song cord token and get closer to that mode starting. So you have 

 I didn't know that. Yeah, 

 that actually kind of rolls into my next question is like what is what is a feature of the game that you see that people aren't utilizing that is like you know common or core in the game? It sounds like it might be that 

 probably that I mean that's uh that's the one of the ways to big points um that that combined with um the eclipse jackpot. Um, so if you're running your mode or multiball during a clips, hitting that shot with a multiplier on top of it, that's where you see people get these like 100 million jackpots and stuff like that. 

 Yeah, that one is the that's the one shot I think I've noticed is sometimes the hardest on a location game if the flippers are not at their max like strength. 

 What do you think is a feature of the game that is the most worn from being on a location? Like is it flipper strength for hitting the solar solar spinner ramp? 

 Like if you needed to tell an operator like, "Hey, 

 yeah, 

 make sure that this stuff is in good working order because it's a co it's important to the mechanics of the game." 

 Yeah. I mean, it uh we put uh a game on location, a test game on location at Enarium locally, and I just put up a couple of um put the the flippers up a couple notches because gets played a lot. They're going to get a little tired. Um 

 easier to do than a flipper rebuild. 

 Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um, but I mean once we got everything dialed in, I I don't actually go to Intarium to fix the game anymore. Uh, when I do go 

 I don't blame you on that one. 

 What 

 I said I don't blame you on that one. I feel like Entarium should fix the game that's atarium. 

 Well, oh yeah, but it's technically ours. So I go there working. Um, so, uh, I've been going I just check up on it and like either they're fixing it or um, it's been holding up pretty well. Um, it's, uh, I go in there and I tighten a screw and clean it usually. Um, there, how awesome is that? The designer of the game goes to an arcade and cleans his own game so that people have a good experience on it. Like, 

 respect. Um, is there anything that you learned from your time designing Avatar that you think is like so important that you're carrying on to future future games? 

 Uh, I learned so much that I'm carrying on to future games. Um just uh I mean it's easy to make one game but to make like it's a couple thousand you know it's uh that's the like to you got to design for manufacturing and there's some things that I didn't do quite right the first time I felt um so um but I know next time not to do those things so uh trying to do stuff like that um I think sometimes just to Like I mean there was one ramp that I I've mentioned be uh in other interviews and panels that I redesigned 10 times. Um I almost want and like I've been um kind of doing that again on my next design except with more things. Just like don't accept like it could be better like um so try to make it the best you can. Um even though you think 

 flow for consistency like what is what is the treat what is the ramp treatment for? 

 Um so this specific one was um it was uh the loop back ramp um and um you could hit it from uh the upper flipper which was my original design. Um but uh people thought oh I should be able to hit that with the left flipper the regular left flipper. So, um, I was like, "Yes, I guess you're right. We should probably be able to do that." So, just trying to get it in the right. So, both of those felt good. Um, and when I finally got it, it you could also hit it with the right flipper, which was unexpected. 

 Yeah. 

 So, I was like, "All right, uh, bonus." And it's one of the most fun shots in the game, I think, now, 

 right? Um, so like just um maybe I can The thing I I learned the most is like just don't if you think it's good enough, try a few more times. 

 There you go. All you homebrew/ other future designers out there, words, words of wisdom. Uh, Manu's got a pretty good one. Uh, also before that, Enzo said that Avatar is his favorite JJP game, which is cool. Enzo's such a nice guy. Shout out Enzo. 

 Uh, so yeah, Manu has a question. and he said, "How do you guys test a game and rules? Do you live play video with logs? Curious about iteration and error catching cuz man who's working on virtual pinball." He's trying to get some sick info out of you to make a nice virtual pin that he's going to talk about next month. 

 What's the advice? 

 Yeah. 

 So, uh yeah, we uh we all play it internally. We have we build one game, one prototype that sits in the arcade that we have um and everybody goes in and plays it. They give their feedback. We have a whiteboard. if something goes wrong. Um, we do have game logs that we can pull off the games. They, uh, the developers can remote connect to it and like look at stuff if they need to. Um, 

 for your like test on location game to see what's breaking if something is a lot. 

 Yeah. Um, we look at the audits to see like, oh, is this being hit? Is this being hit? Um, is this mode being started? Things like that. Um we have um pretty good um if if it crashes uh we have a pretty good debugging system to figure out what caused the crash where in the code it was. Um so um it's uh they h they they have a lot of lot of tools um for developing games that um very useful for debugging stuff and and feedback too is uh like on rules like somebody might be playing and they're like oh I I think this should be like this uh like I I for this reason. Um, so you sort of like get all this uh not really like errors or anything, just sort of like this doesn't feel right type of thing. Um, so 

 it's crazy how scoring really is an important factor to that kind of like dopamine feedback, right? Finding the sweet spot for where it balances that you can't blow a game up where it's just silly or exploitable, but also, you know, doesn't dwarf the importance of other shots on it. Um, Manu wants to make sure I know that his game that they're working on is a physical pin. Okay, thank you, Manu. The uh Roller Coasters wants to know what your favorite nonJJP game is. Any inspiration? 

 That's uh that's a tough one. 

 Can't say skateball. 

 I can't say skateball now. 

 Um 

 are you looking at other pins right now? No cheating. Stop it. 

 I I'm looking I I have a lot of games. 

 Yeah. Okay. Well, you can't do that. You got to look inside your brain. 

 You know what? I I know the answer. It's not here. Uh, Radical. I love Radical. 

 Oh, what an awesome choice. 

 Yeah. 

 Ah, yeah. Radical has such a cool flow and weird like connecting whatever, like ramps and loop shots. It's just wild. 

 Yeah, I love playing Radical. 

 That's an excellent choice. Roller Coaster wants to know how many games you have. 

 Uh, 24. 

 That's a good amount. That's a lot of games. Um, 

 and no Raven. No, No, Raven. 

 You I didn't get to my raven joke yet. Thank you. Roller coasters is tipping tipping the raven thing before I even get there. Uh Dr. John's asking, by the way, shout out to to the Aussie lands. Uh he's not sure if this is asked, but will JJP ever send out a fix to tilt up the topper for the CE a bit? Even with the screen adjustment, I still can't see the whole screen. 

 Um so I don't think so. Um, we ship with the topper on and so tilting it up a bit would um not allow us to put it in the box. Um the uh 

 maybe a 3D printed wedge that can be included. 

 Yeah, I don't I there's no there's no current plans to do that. Let's put it that way. Um, and um, the the one of the it's uh, Pepper's ghost effect that's up there. And one of the things that you have to keep in mind when doing that uh, is if you move the screen up, it appears to be further back. So, if we found the sweet spot where it didn't look like it was behind the windshield or the the dashboard, whatever, and was still in the cabin, which I I understand that some people think that that's too low and it's hard to see. Um, 

 yeah, 

 I don't know. I think that Pepper's Ghost thing is pretty neat. I wish more games use that kind of concept, but 

 is what it is. Um, yeah, also an incredibly cool topper. I think one of the more interesting toppers that JGP has um out there in general. 

 But, uh, let me check my notes. Roller Coaster says goodbye. He's so jealous of your job. He's an engineering student that is, uh, 

 thirsty to get into pinball. 

 Uh, did anything from your homebrew days kind of carry over into your JJP work? 

 Um, yeah. to some extent. Um, so, uh, my Metroid game, it has, um, Infinity Mirror in the backbox and, uh, I wanted to see if we could do that on a JJP back JP box, but, um, it didn't fit. So, um, the screen was just too wide and all the mechan all the electronics back there, it just didn't work. So, I was like, oh, I kind of want have that somewhere. And that's where the ball lock thing um, uh, came in. Um, so the the infinity mirror ball lock that's in the game. So I was like, "Oh, maybe what if we 

 found a place to put it anyways, right?" 

 Yeah. What if we used a ball the ball as the mirror and just put like a two-way mirror plastic over it and then it should theoretically be an infinity mirror. Uh, so we did that. Um, uh, and other stuff like there's, um, like the RDA ramp shot on the one on the left. There's a there's like a shot like that on the Metroid game that was it was a just a on the playfield shot. It wasn't a ramp, but it was like, "Oh, maybe it'd be cooler if that was a ramp and it like fed the the hopper flipper or something." 

 So, Dr. John has an excellent question here about the UV light. So, he says the UV he has a UV light on his roof to help accent the CE art. And I'm not he's not the only person. Rick, who's been on my channel a few times, he works at Disney as an Imagineer. He also has a box, a spotlight to help accent that. Um, he said, "Is there was there enough light to get in there cuz it looks so pretty?" Now, I have clear coat blocks UV rays. So, I'm guessing that there's some sort of technology for that UV coat that helps allow UV light through in some capacity, or do you just like bombard it with as much UV light as possible to try to get any amount through? 

 A little bit of both. Um, you can't get rid of all the UV protection because it could compromise the clear coat. Um, so we sort of were finding the balance of um how that would work and we uh we actually upgraded the UV lights in it uh a bunch of times. Um the uh the lights we the the UV spotlights we shipped with are way more powerful than the ones we started off trying out. Um right. Um, another thing you have to keep in mind is like the wavelength of the UV UV lights because the inks only react best at certain wavelengths and things like that. So, getting the right ink which works with clear coat without uh just melting the the inks um and you know just um getting the right brightness and the right wavelengths um was uh it took a while to get to where we are now. So, 

 sure, 

 it is a cool effect. It is unfortunately not as noticeable as I think a lot of people wanted it to be, but 

 still the concept and execution is better than no UV reactive ink at all. 

 Um, for the for the artwork that's in UV, we had to stick to like movie accurate um details. So, a lot of those are very fine details, 

 right? Can't just make anything glow UV, right? 

 Daddy Daddy Cameron would get pretty upset about that. Yeah, it's uh it's so like um so like even on like the Jake and the Cher's faces, all those dots are in the exact same positions they are in the movies like and about the same ratio in size and stuff like that. 

 Are there any Easter eggs in the artwork that are shout outs to you or the team? Um there is um there's actually in the um the smaller lower play field with the pop bumper um if you look if you lean over and look down into it there's a Pandora otter in there uh which I threw in there cuz my wife loves otter. 

 Nice. A that's adorable. Yeah. Otter, the Otter actually didn't make it into the movie, but like it was a cut scene, so they was they they fortunately they let us use that in there. 

 They're like, "You got to It's in there. Come on. We see it in the asset pool. You got to let us use it, right?" 

 Exactly. 

 Force it force it through approvals. 

 Uh Tranty, I don't know if I should ask this one, but why not? Here we are. He says this, he's asking both of us. He's like, "How do we feel about Canada being so hard on Avatar and Dune when both are good games?" Do you do you want to answer that one first or you want me to? 

 Um, you can answer first. 

 Okay. I I think Canada can say whatever he wants because is a platform and he is a pinball person and he can say however feelings he feels and people that follow that channel can either resonate with that or not. Just like I can say what I feel about games and just like Mark can say whatever he feels. Uh, I wish people were a little more sensitive to the fact that people designing pinball machines are actual people, but uh, I don't know. I don't give a [ __ ] He can say whatever he wants. 

 Yeah, my opinion is similar. He's has every right to say whatever he wants. Um uh yeah, leave it at that. 

 There you go. Uh Manu stole your kickback from Avatar cuz it was so good. You're a goddamn thief, Manu. Uh and then uh Zaron says he wants to know what you think Jersey Jack's secret sauce is. This is a great question. Like what do you think makes Jersey Jack games so unique and different than other other games? You could say RGB lighting too because everybody knows 

 RGB lighting helps. 

 The RGB lighting is so overkill. 

 It's definitely a piece. Um I think it's just like the the dedication the teams have to like get all the assets they can um to like really immerse you in that world and um make you feel like for Avatar it's make you feel like you're on Pandora like flying around and stuff like that. Uh for Harry Potter, it's like you're you're at Hogwarts. Um hanging out with everyone there. Um you know, it's just they really try um to immerse you in the game and give you as much as they can like um for gameplay experience. 

 There you go. Theme integration and encompassing experience. Uh all right, Wolf Man. I'll bite on this one. Wolfman wants to know why JJP dropped Scorbit integration or the procedure of integrating Scorbit into their games. 

 Um I don't know. Um 

 I feel like that's not a Mark question, Wolf Man, and you know that. 

 Yeah, it's above my pay grade. Um I mean I I do I do like getting achievements, so um 

 who knows? 

 I love the real-time score counting that happens on it, especially for integration in games like System 11 games and stuff like that. It's such a a neat concept. We talked about this a little bit with uh uh oh god uh stumbler mods maybe uh because they had figured out a way to get into Stern's code so they could pull actual data to like drive their mods and things like that and then Stern will put out a mystery patch and suddenly that stopped working 

 and I just it seems silly like I get there's a certain protection of our rights and stuff 

 but at the same token it's like why not give a data output line that's dedicated towards people that are in the homebrew market for making mods. As a homebrew person yourself, do you not think that that's a fun and cool idea that motor pinball people should integrate? 

 I I had thought of that idea. Um uh whether or not it becomes something in a Jersey Jack game, who knows? Um 

 sure, but a universal data output line that gives certain statistics and things to pull from to drive mods or drive statistics, like it just seems like kind of a no-brainer in the in the digital age if pinball is going to keep evolving. Yeah, I mean that that's I mean pretty much you can make a mod that's fully interactive and stuff like that. Although officially modding Voyer Warranty, I have to say that. Um, 

 of course officially. 

 Yeah, 

 Kyle at Stern has specifically said that he was never uh he has never not approved. Everybody loves double negatives. He's never turned down a warranty replacement thing based off of mod integration, which I think is cool, even though Stern has the same 

 Ryan Policky, for lack of a better word. 

 Mhm. Uh, does Mark have a catalog of whiteboards ready to be made or do you start with every theme fresh? That's a good question. Do you slap the theme on or like were you given the avatar IP and then you started working on a white wood that fit that, you know, concept or did you have a playfield layout that you were like this is really cool and then you were like avatar would fit for this? 

 Um, I feel like the the game should play like the theme somehow. that's very hard to like quantify like say this feels like Pandora or something um versus this feels like Elton John, you know. Um 

 I think pinball machines have a feel and it's like soul for lack of a better word. Lord of the Rings has great theme mod inte mode integration that echoes the film moments, you know, based on how you do your shots and what occurs in the sequence. So 

 not just on the graphics. though. 

 So, Avatar I did start from scratch because I wanted a game that felt alien, like you're flying around, like you're climbing on the vines, and I wanted to like this game to feel like that. Um, uh, so far I have not had something where I have it in the queue and oh, this would be good for this. Um although I do have at least one um which design which I think would be cool but um the theme didn't fell through. So um it's possible I may reuse that in the future. It's possible I might not. Um 

 but more importantly we've heard that there are games coming from you in the future. 

 Yeah. Uh it t it it takes a lot of time to do a whitewood. So um having a a ton of them. Um but I definitely want to get to the point where I have a few ready to go. Um but not quite at that point yet. 

 There you go. So kind a little of column A, a little column B. Dr. John wants to know if you've had an experience of driving with Steve Ritchie in the car and have did your life flash before your eyes. 

 I actually go to lunch with Steve almost every day. Does he drive or do you drive? 

 Uh, he drives most of the time. Fortunately, it's not very far. Um, 

 they say most accidents happen within like a mile of the home. 

 I guess that's true. Um, but uh yeah, he's um I think I people have told me he's calmed down a little bit as he gets older, but he still drives like a maniac. 

 Fair enough. Uh, this is a good question from DJ Warlock, by the way. What's up, man? Thank you for stopping by. Uh he's he wants to know when JJP is going to get flippers that aren't spongy after a lot of multiballs. And uh I think that was a criticism on Guns and Roses for sure. That game felt strange, at least on our model at our location. Um so yeah, I don't know. Is there is there technology going into the flippers to change their snappiness? I feel like that's a common complaint across games for most pinball people. 

 We're always improving everything. Um, so but, um, I feel like our our last few games I I haven't noticed that at all. Um, Um, Avatar, I don't really have a problem with Elton. I don't really have a problem with Potter. 

 I have not felt the flippers feel weird on Avatar either. Guns and Roses, they felt awful and Godfather was a little weird, too. But again, that could be just gametoame issues. Not I mean, there's so many, especially with on locationation games. If they're if they don't have Mark Seiden coming in and fixing and cleaning their own game like 

 Yeah. 

 Right. 

 No. 

 No. Well, yeah. I mean, 

 can you go around the greater area of the nation and clean all JJP's games? Maybe you could go on like a big road trip and just polish them all. 

 Yeah. I don't think I have time to do that, but I'd love to. 

 What? 

 Just tweak it. Like make sure the flippers feel good. Uh, Free Gold Watch says that Potter feels fine. They have over 3,000 plays and those flippers are just as snappy as they've ever been. I'm filling in some of that, but that's what Manu says. So, that's pretty great. Um, Dr. John says that Eshcher put Pandora, he spelled it twice in one game. That's impressive. That man is is an absolute pinball legend. Uh, all right. I think that's that's pretty much all I got in terms of of Avatar and stuff. The only question I didn't ask, and it's funny we're doing this right at the end, but Mark, how did what what got you into pinball? Like where did it start? 

 Uh, so I um I had I remember playing like Adam's Family as a kid, stuff like that. U but I was more like Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter kid uh when I went to the arcade. Uh but yeah, I would occasionally th play some pinball. Um, and then when I was dating my now wife, um, we went to a Dave and Busters, um, and this was around 2000. Um, so it was still fairly new. Uh, they still had a fairly new, um, Star Wars Episode one there. Um, and we just ended up playing that like all night. Um, 

 interesting. The Pinball 2000 game is what got you into pinball. 

 Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and then basically we uh we were like after the end like maybe someday when we have room let's get a pinball machine. Um, we did not end up getting a um episode one. Uh, we actually 

 smart choice. 

 Our first game was uh Doctor Who actually. Um, and then you know it just sort of snowballs from there and then now you have 24. Um, I didn't end didn't get the uh episode one, but I do have a revenge for Mars, which I think is the better of the the two Pinball 2000s 

 for sure. In fact, one of our viewers is using that body as a homebrew for his own kind of screen projection system that he's done with which is now high resolution projections. It looks pretty crazy. It's like, you know, you're shooting 1080p or whatever onto the glass instead of whatever that old CRT was. Um, so wait, what are you can you blow through? What are 10 of the your favorite games that are in your collection? 

 I got to pick 10. Um uh I have to say Avatar. Um 

 contractually or personally? 

 Uh well, uh uh Elton. I love Elton. Um let's see. I have a champion pub. I I just love all the little mechs in that game. Um, I have a no fear. Let's see. We're up to four. Uh, no fear is awesome. Um, 

 there's a no fear Easter egg in Attack from Mars. Did you know that? 

 Um, I probably have heard it, but I don't know. I am not picturing what it is. 

 It's really dumb. I have it I have it on my Instagram. Shout out to my own thing. Uh if you hit one of the targets repeatedly enough, it shows the no fear head on top of the uh on the dots instead of the alien. 

 Yeah. 

 Interesting. Yeah. Um there is actually a no fear Easter egg and Avatar. Uh we got Stephen Lang to say play better. 

 So it'll occasionally say that. Yeah. 

 Nice. 

 Or you got three more? 

 Four more. 

 I don't know. I can do three more. Um I I just got a Pulp Fiction. And that's I love that game. 

 That game is really fun. 

 Uh got a nineball. I love Nineball. Um and uh I'm going to go with I have an Elvar's House of Horrors. I love that game, too. 

 Awesome. Those are all really great games. Uh Lambdes has a question. I'm going to throw that. That's going to be our last question for the for the for the chat, for the stream. I just want to say thank you again, but I noticed there were some missing names in there and I do want to ask you uh maybe out of these three games, which one of these would you be interested in adding to your collection? Uh from this is from every time period, right? So, we'll say first one Raven. 

 Mhm. 

 The second game I'm curious if you would add this is Raven. 

 Those are some solid choices. You can only pick one. 

 I I actually um somebody was selling a Raven for pretty cheap and I almost bought it like just like I was like at the price point that I was like hm do I want that Raven? So I think 

 I have a follow-up question. What is the price point that is worthy? Where do what do you draw the line for buying a Raven? 

 I think it was like 350 bucks or something. 

 Wow. Oh, poor Raven. Oh, that's savage. You were heartless man, Mark. All right, Lambdas wants to know, uh, we kind of asked this already, but they just hopped in, probably late. What is the biggest issue you encountered while designing Avatar? Um hm there were I mean every there's there's pinball is hard so there's a lot of things that go wrong and whatnot. Um you know what is really hard? Uh UV inks. Um okay getting right. Uh that that was that took 

 a lot of tries to get where we are now. And if you missed that, we were talking about the limitations because you put the dots that need to be UV in their film accurate, lore accurate spots, which aren't necessarily as large and palatable as that might need to be in order for them to pop from the light. 

 Yeah, I think like um at least on the CE version, the the whale that whole area around that in the center u it looks really good under the UV light. Like all the green dots, let's like pop and stuff like that. the reds and the the blues around the corals and stuff like that. Um, so we were able to be a little more dense in like the underwater scenes on the playfield. Um, I I'm happy with the the final result. Um, so but it was it was a journey to get there to say the least, 

 right? And it is a great game. So I think what a what a fine way to kind of like uh tag out the stream. Thank you again for coming on to talk about both the challenges and your journey of getting to homebrew to to Jersey Jack in general. Um, if you haven't played Avatar, I implore you to go find one. If you're not a fan of the movie, man, I get it. Like themes are, at least for me, I know themes matter to a lot of people. I'm talking to you, Pinball, Degenerate, Joe. But for other people that love rules, they love a game that just shoots amazing. Go give Avatar a try. Um, this is not a paid promotion at all. I just like Avatar. I put an amazing like two billion point game on it. like the third or fourth time I played it. And uh nothing makes you like a game like putting up a big score. Um but yeah, go check out Avatar. 

 Good. 

 Anything you Mark, you got anything you want to plug that's uh going on in Jersey Jack's World or coming up that you want the world to know about? 

 Um so uh Papa's coming up this week. Uh they're going to I think that they have an auction. Uh it's for helping suicide prevention. So, um, it's 

 I'm laughing at Pin Den's comment, not the suicide prevention thing, by the way, just for when people watch this. 

 V. 

 Anyways, popup, very important. That's for LMF Shhats, by the way. LFS, probably one of the greatest programmers and unfortunately passed due to suicide. I think Batman 66 is one of his most amazing games and truly a good cause. And please do go watch Papa. 

 Yeah. So, yeah, watch that. Um, if uh if you're there, bid on some stuff. Uh do do donate. There's a donation link that they have. Um if you can't make it. Um yeah, I think that's what I want to plug. 

 There you go. Awesome. By the way, LF Lemon Sheets, not shhats. I'm getting my my shhats and sheets mixed up before the before Reddit jumps on me on that one. Uh anyways, as we do on here, thank you again. All praise the Great Pyramid. Uh appreciate you and the time and the interview. Tell Jack I said hi and thank you for for throwing you over to the wolves here of our uh chat monsters. Um as we do here, we're going to go find someone to raid and uh make their day by dropping a bunch of pinball people on there. So please stick around if you're on Twitch. If you're not, uh you don't have to worry about this. Bye everybody. 

 See you.

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 22494f10-b873-4312-bf19-fc24b89c53f1*