# The Pinball Show Ep 88: The Death Of Valhalla Hype & Growing Impatience With Haggis Pinball **Source:** The Pinball Show **Type:** podcast_episode **Published:** 2022-01-17 **Duration:** 89m 32s **Beat:** Pinball **URL:** https://www.thepinballnetwork.net/e/the-pinball-show-ep-88-the-death-of-valhalla-hype-growing-impatience-with-haggis-pinball/ --- ## Analysis The Pinball Show hosts Dennis Creasel and Zach Minney discuss Rush Pinball impressions, George Gomez's confirmed 2022 game design, and analyze Stern Pinball's rock band game strategy through album sales data. They also address community impatience with Haggis Pinball and debate whether Rush's 40 million album sales justify a cornerstone release compared to higher-selling bands. ### Key Claims - [HIGH] George Gomez will have a game design releasing later in 2022 at Stern Pinball — _Saw a YouTube interview overseas with George Gomez coming out saying that he is going to have a game design in 2022, later in the year_ - [MEDIUM] Steve Ritchie had a whitewood-ready layout when he left Stern Pinball — _steve said he had a you know he had a whitewood quote-unquote ready to go when he left so he was clearly far along on something_ - [MEDIUM] Rumors indicate George Gomez will redesign Steve Ritchie's layout rather than tweak it — _george going to tweak steve's layout or is george going to just be like trash it and just redo the whole thing himself... I think the thing is is george going to tweak steve's layout or is george going to just be like trash it and just redo the whole thing himself... I think it's going to be the latter_ - [HIGH] Rush Pinball has sold very strongly despite low album sales compared to other Stern rock band games — _rush sales have been very strong... it's been a hell of a seller compared to what I thought it was going to be_ - [HIGH] Rush has only 40 million estimated worldwide album sales, significantly less than other Stern band games — _Rush, $40 million... Huge fall off... Everything else that got a cornerstone rock band had at least 100 million in sales worldwide_ - [HIGH] Stern Pinball has released 11 rock band cornerstone games since 1999, with escalating frequency starting in 2011 — _I pulled together a list of all of the rock band games that Stern Pinball has done under Stern Pinball since 1999... 11... Elvis in 2004... then all of a sudden they just poured it on in 2011_ - [LOW] Rumors suggest Stern Pinball may release Foo Fighters and Back to the Future, potentially designed by Jack Danger and Elwin respectively — _the rumor mill says Foo Fighters could happen by Stern Pinball this year... Uh, like a Jack Danger design is Foo Fighters... there's also the rumors that Elwin's doing Back to the Future_ - [HIGH] John Borg's Rush layout appears similar to his X-Men layout but with improvements for flow — _it looks like Borg took the X-Men layout but made changes to make it a more flowy layout... I definitely see X-Men in it. It's not a wholly unique concept_ ### Notable Quotes > "I would do the same thing. There was a moral imperative for him to completely redo Trudeau's Deadpool. Like, they could not go out and give Trudeau any credit." > — **Dennis Creasel**, N/A > _Explains George Gomez's likely approach to redesigning Steve Ritchie's work due to ego and design philosophy_ > "You do not want to lose your cash cow to another company. If they're not, I would suggest they consider it. Elwin gets first pick." > — **Zach Minney**, N/A > _Suggests Stern should prioritize top designer Elwin's preferences to retain talent_ > "Everything else that got a cornerstone rock band had at least 100 million in sales worldwide. Rush is at 40 million." > — **Dennis Creasel**, N/A > _Key data point questioning Rush's licensing decision relative to sales metrics_ > "Do we get the Gomez ramp in his next game? That damn same ramp material and everything that we've seen in Batman and in Deadpool?" > — **Zach Minney**, N/A > _Running joke about Gomez's signature design element recycling_ > "It didn't really trigger until 2011. Because Elvis was an outlier. And then all of a sudden they just poured it on." > — **Dennis Creasel**, N/A > _Identifies the inflection point when Stern committed heavily to rock band cornerstones_ ### Entities | Name | Type | Context | |------|------|---------| | George Gomez | person | Stern Pinball designer confirmed to have a game design releasing in 2022; likely redesigning Steve Ritchie's work | | Steve Ritchie | person | Former Stern Pinball designer who left with a whitewood-ready layout; his unfinished work may be redesigned by Gomez | | John Borg | person | Designer of Rush Pinball; layout appears to build upon X-Men design | | Jack Danger | person | Stern designer rumored to be designing Foo Fighters | | Elwin | person | Stern designer rumored to be working on Back to the Future; identified as a top performer whose preferences should be prioritized | | Rush Pinball | game | 2022 Stern release; strong sales despite Rush's lower album sales (40M) compared to other band pins | | Stern Pinball | company | Major pinball manufacturer; has released 11 rock band cornerstone games since 1999 | | The Pinball Show | media | Podcast hosted by Dennis Creasel and Zach Minney from Flippin' Out Pinball | | Flippin' Out Pinball | company | Sales/distribution company owned by Zach Minney; podcast hosts work there | | Dennis Creasel | person | Co-host of The Pinball Show; provides detailed analysis of rock band game strategy | | Zach Minney | person | Owner of Flippin' Out Pinball, co-host of The Pinball Show; reports strong Rush sales | | Haggis Pinball | company | Referenced in episode title; community impatience with this manufacturer indicated | | Kapow | company | Studio mentioned in rumors about potential partnership with Stern for 007 and other titles | | X-Men Pinball | game | Previous Borg design; Rush layout appears to build upon this | | Dan | person | Listener who emailed correction about Iron Maiden vs Rush album sales | ### Topics - **Primary:** Rush Pinball design and reception, George Gomez's confirmed 2022 game design and redesign of Steve Ritchie's work, Stern Pinball's rock band cornerstone strategy and album sales correlation - **Secondary:** Rumors of future rock band pins (Foo Fighters, Back to the Future, 007), Designer talent retention and preference hierarchy at Stern, Pro vs Premium/LE model differentiation on Rush, John Borg design philosophy and recurring elements - **Mentioned:** Community impatience with Haggis Pinball ### Sentiment **Mixed** (0.55) — Positive on Rush Pinball sales and George Gomez confirmation; critical of Rush's album sales justification; frustrated by apparent Haggis delays; generally enthusiastic about Stern's direction but questioning some decisions ### Signals - **[business_signal]** Speculation about other completed designer layouts sitting unused at Stern Pinball, suggesting potential inventory or decision-making delays (confidence: low) — I've heard that there is at least one other designer at Stern Pinball that has completed a layout and completed a game in the past, and it's kind of just sitting on a shelf - **[sentiment_shift]** Episode title references 'Death of Valhalla Hype' and 'Growing Impatience with Haggis Pinball,' indicating sentiment shift regarding these entities (confidence: medium) — Title: 'The Death Of Valhalla Hype & Growing Impatience With Haggis Pinball'; referenced as discussion topics for episode - **[competitive_signal]** Tournament players disable physical ball locks on Rush Pinball to standardize play; affects Pro vs Premium/LE gameplay differentiation (confidence: medium) — tourney people, they just turn off all those physical ball locks anyway... they take out all the fun - **[design_philosophy]** Rush Pinball layout derivative of X-Men design rather than wholly unique; Borg notably absent bash toy in recent releases (confidence: medium) — Borg took the X-Men layout but made changes to make it a more flowy layout... I definitely see X-Men in it. It's not a wholly unique concept... haven't seen a bash toy from Borg in a while - **[licensing_signal]** Beatles and Led Zeppelin identified as harder IP licenses to secure, potentially explaining delayed releases vs. predicted release order by sales (confidence: medium) — Beatles and Zeppelin were both kind of hard licenses to work with or secure... Stern would have done Zeppelin sooner if it was easier to get their lives - **[market_signal]** Rush Pinball selling strongly despite having lowest album sales (40M) of any Stern cornerstone rock band, challenging traditional licensing metrics (confidence: high) — rush sales have been very strong... it's been a hell of a seller... Everything else that got a cornerstone rock band had at least 100 million in sales worldwide - **[personnel_signal]** George Gomez will likely redesign Steve Ritchie's whitewood layout rather than complete it, indicating designer ego and design control priorities (confidence: medium) — george doesn't want to just put the finishing touches on something Steve did... george is like, no, if it's going to have my name on it, it's going to be my game - **[announcement]** George Gomez confirmed for 2022 game design release at Stern Pinball, sourced from overseas YouTube interview (confidence: high) — Saw a YouTube interview overseas with George Gomez coming out saying that he is going to have a game design in 2022, later in the year - **[rumor_hype]** Foo Fighters potentially in development at Stern as Jack Danger design; Back to the Future rumored for Elwin (confidence: low) — the rumor mill says Foo Fighters could happen by Stern Pinball this year... like a Jack Danger design is Foo Fighters... there's also the rumors that Elwin's doing Back to the Future - **[business_signal]** Stern Pinball identified pattern: rock band cornerstones started 2011, never more than one year gap since AC/DC 2012, suggesting deliberate recurring revenue strategy (confidence: high) — since ACDC, they have never gone more than one year without doing a band pin... That's when they had another, finally, another hit game... marks the start of what we know now as the band pin --- ## Transcript Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised. The Pinball Network is online. Launching The Pinball Show. You are in luck because The Pinball Show episode 88 is a damn good one. This week, Dennis and I talk about poofing with strangers in a store. The influence that Full House had on many growing children. Dennis' thoughts and impressions of Rush Pinball. George Gomez' upcoming game design this year. A Creasel Correction. Chicago Gaming Company production updates. The death of Valhalla Hype. The upcoming Dennis Nordman game. Growing impatience with Haggis Pinball. Things I like, things I don't about Pinball Brothers Alien Game. A hot Facebook pinball debate in the back of cabinets. The 2021 Crystal Ceremony premiere. Pinball market trends and the old switcheroo. Jam-packed and full of fun, this is the Pinball Show. Pinball is a game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle. It's time for the Pinball Show. It's pinball with personality. Whatever happened to predictability? The milkman, the paperboy, evening TV. Everywhere you look, you'll see Dennis Creasel and Zach Minney hosting the Pinball Show episode 88. Dennis, how are you? I'm fine. It's been 84 minutes since the last TPS episode, I think. Did you love it? I listened all the way up through Market Trends. Why do you always turn it off during Market Trends? You can learn something. It doesn't teach me anything. No. You can learn. No. Do you have an aversion to learning? Look, I have an aversion to everything except the intricate research that I bring to the table. As you know, I have often always said, never ever deviating, that Iron Maiden is the most popular band when compared to Rush. That's the sort of research that I rely on. We will get to that in the pinball news. That was a fun email. What have you been up to lately? I have been doing work, unfortunately. It's a very sad time. Legislative season is upon us, which means I have to start paying attention to what nasty things committees want to do to me professionally. And it's not going to be a good year. And Omicron, we've got, you know, everyone's sick. Everyone is. Yeah. So the state finally gave the clearance to the local governments to drop contact tracing. It was no longer feasible. I mean, honestly, the compliance was so low at this point. Yeah, yeah. So the thought slash hope actually is with this, everyone will either have been vaccinated or infected by and large. Obviously, there'll be exceptions. And we might be able to finally move to endemic state. And this will be the last of the major surges. That's the hope. We don't know that. Don't jinx us. We don't. Everybody's got COVID. I think my dog has COVID. Can dogs get COVID? I've heard about some dogs possibly having COVID. We know other animals have gotten COVID. Some zoos lost some of their big cats to it. Big cat? Yeah, big cats don't cope well with COVID. Neither do many humans. I wonder if Joe Exotic in jail. I wonder if Joe Exotic has COVID. Joe Exotic, that name just came right to you. It's not like I had to Google it. I'm glad you didn't have to go to Bing. Man, I wonder. You would think in prison COVID really runs rampant. Actually, that was a big – everything about COVID is political. But early on, that was one of the biggest things that some of our legislators in Kansas got really mad about is prisoners, because it was so virulent in that, because it's a confined population. You can't easily socially distance all the prisoners. So they were prioritized for vaccination. Oh, I see. And, of course, there was the, well, why are you letting criminals live over regular folk? Yeah, a bunch of potheads in there that shouldn't be vaccinated. The irony of a big cat getting COVID and giving it back to Carole Baskin. Wow. Dennis, you need to watch that show. I'm sure when JJP does the Tiger King pinball machine, I will see it all on the screen. I haven't been up to much lately. I've been working a lot. I didn't ask. Work, work, work, work. Yeah, but I feel like I'm on fucking final round. Jeff Teal is here. I did hear that part of your solo episode that you put out approximately 84 minutes ago that the rush sales have been very strong. They have been. They've been keeping us busy here at Flip N Out Pinball. So, yeah, I've been super busy. Not many highlights in my – not that you care, Dennis, or listener. Not many highlights of my week. I did have something special happen to me last week I wanted to share with the listening audience because it was special. It was cute. I went to, do you guys have Meijer? I think that's before. I don't know what a Meijer is. A Meijer is almost like a Walmart superstore grocery kind of thing. No, not to my knowledge. We do not. No. Went to a Meijer to pick up body wash. Are you a body washer or a bar kind of guy? Wash leaves less soap scum in the shower, so I converted to that years ago. Okay. A little loofah and stuff. So I needed some new smell, so I went in there. And generally speaking, when I'm out in public, I don't like dealing with people. I'm not this extrovert that goes out of their way. Right, right. So you're in the Axe Body Spray aisle. Those people annoy me. You know, they're going out of their way to talk to people. Just let me do my thing. So I'm in that Axe Body Spray aisle, and I like the more retail smells. I don't know how to explain that. Very manly, musky, woody. I like the woody smells. You know, your sandalwoods and your cedarwoods and stuff like that. And I'm sitting there, and I'm just going through. And one of the nicest things happened. A gentleman walked up beside me, and he was looking at the body washers as well. And he said, I'd recommend that one. He pointed to one. I thought, this is very odd. Who just approaches a stranger recommending, you know, liquid gel that they rub all over their dong? So I said, oh, yeah, okay. And 15 minutes later, Dennis, this man and I, we'll call him Bob, we had just the nicest time in aisle nine of Meijer going through different recommendations of body washes, ones we like, ones we don't. At one point, we were giggling together. We were poofing. I'm going to call it poofing when you open the lid and you poof for the smell to one another. I poofed his nose. He poofed mine. It was just a nice magical moment that I wanted to share with everybody. I mean, he even at one point, Bob, God bless him, he poofed too much and got a little bit of residual on the nose there, and we chuckled about that. Just a wonderful, lovely time with Bob at the Meyer. Have you ever had that type of interaction with a total stranger? No. Sounds nice, though. I almost like, you know what, Bob? What's your number? I almost picked up a friend. And it made me think. I was like, well, why am I this way? And I trace it back to childhood, watching one of the greatest sitcoms of all time and something that is going to be missed dearly to the world, and that's the loss of Bob Saget. First we lose Betty White. Now we lose Bob Saget. Were you a Bob Saget fan? Not particularly, no. I've seen some of his comedy routines I mean his stand up act is extremely different than his kind of American dad persona actually he was he's more known I always associate more with just being a really filthy comic than anything which was fine he wasn't on my high list of really funny people did you ever watch Full House though that's my favorite yeah yeah yeah I watched it when I was a kid I attribute a lot of my morals and principles in life I should do not to sitcoms like Full House or any of the TGIF, you know, Family Matters, Step by Step. I think it taught a lot of good morals and principles that I don't think kids get nowadays. Yeah, I think I pulled more of my cues from Silence of the Lambs, but we all have our favorite shows. Gladys. That's how I learned how to pair wines with dinner. It's time for TPN Industry News. look great not hearing from correspondents sack yeah i don't know where in the hell they went what are we going to talk about are we going to talk about stern pinball we'll have to do what we do every week uh provide the news to these people take over the world try to take over the world i think we are very pinky and brainish don't you i you know i never really watched that show i I only know that line because everyone else did, and I had to pretend I could fit in. So weeks. I think from all your poofing, you're a powder puff girl. You don't poof. Are you an anti-poofer? You just go off name alone? You got to poof. The scents are described on the bottle. Oh, but accurately. Well. You poof. Everybody poofs. No, I usually order, so I don't usually. Even women poof. Don't let them tell you any otherwise. No. No. No. No. All right, Stern Pinball's in the news as always with Rush, pros possibly, leaving that factory this week. I gave some of my first impressions. You did. Things I like, things I don't. Things you like, things you like a little bit less. Segments that Dennis thinks are stupid. But what are some of your first thoughts? We heard a little bit on EGP if you guys go tune in to that, but some of your quick thoughts about Rush Pinball. Well, it looks like Borg took the X-Men layout but made changes to make it a more flowy layout. Okay, good. So I think it looks like it. It still looks pretty rough of a layout. I actually really liked X-Men, so I think that overall it looks like it's an improved layout, but I definitely see X-Men in it. It's not a wholly unique concept. I was really surprised he didn't put a bash toy in. Right? Have we seen a bash toy from Borg in a while? Turtles didn't have one. I mean, we don't really count the van as a bash toy. No, you don't touch the van. So, no, it's been a while. I think maybe he's been like, you know what? Everyone thinks I'm just the bash toy person now. So I liked reusing the ring from Lord of the Rings and turning it into the – I still call it the ring instead of the time machine, but that's probably because I'm not big into Rush. It was more ringish than anything. So there's that. There's the rules sound interesting, though I'm not quite sure you described them exactly accurately in terms of what's going on with the song. We had to hear from Ray Day. No, I could tell that just from my own – my eyes. I didn't really watch his stream much, so I just listened to Gary's stream. I only had about 25 minutes on the stream, but, you know, it looked – I mean, Ray Day kind of blew it up on that, but everyone else seemed to – they're all better players than me, though, so I know it's going to be rough for me to play. But, yeah, it's not really my sort of game that I'd want to buy new, but it's one I want to play locally, and I'm sure we'll get one. So, yeah. What about the do you think there's a big difference between the pro versus the premium LE models? Because we know that John Borg typically does a hell of a pro. Yeah, I do think there are obviously there are a number of changes. So it's not like it's not my example of a Borg one where there wasn't was and you may disagree with me on this one would be Guardians where it felt like you just had these. decorative Groot hands and that's the only thing that stood out and be like why would you do that here with the multiple diverter subway ejects and such and you've got the whole clock toy sculpt time machine I see clear differences but I think mostly that's going to be hardcore Rush fans are going to be like I want that added experience I think people that might be from a gameplay perspective you know it's a mix it's like there's nothing that you know we've had instances like Game of Thrones, for example, where you can say the pro play. I've heard people, and I would argue this as well, the pro plays better. I don't think you're going to argue the pro plays better on Rush, but you're not giving up a whole lot either where you're feeling like, oh my gosh, I lost my collapsing building and my ramp and my Mechagodzilla tummy grab. It feels like it's more tolerable as a pro. The premium, you do get that extra Vuck instead of the dead end. I hate the dead end shots. yeah you know uh and i wondered if that's gonna bug me or not because i really didn't like the the dead end shot on led zeppelin yeah that's because the differences with led zeppelin that should be a super fun ramp shot and you just all of a sudden you turned it into a brick i've had other games where there have been those sort of dead end shots where you just go and hit a stand-up though and i and if they're angled in a good way i think it's all right so i think if If you like physical ball locks, that's going to go free. Yeah, and there are going to be a lot of people that will be like that. But, you know, them tourney people, they just turn off all those physical ball locks anyway. I know. It is the way. They take out all the fun. They take out all the breaking things. Sorry, Johnny Mnemonic Power Glove. The glove never works. Not today. Sorry, Crane. You're not getting the crane to work on Demoman in a tournament. Everyone just chooses the freeze lock anyway. So do you love the art? Art's okay. I don't love it, but I don't dislike it. It's different. I'll give him credit for that. Some people don't like the comic look of the characters. You acted like I went soft in my impressions. Yeah. I mean, everyone has a – The artist did – and I thought you had a fair – I'm going to give you some credit. Holy – You had a fair point about – it's kind of irrelevant if the band likes it or not. Yeah. This is a commercial product, so it needs to be what will sell. And ideally, if we're still – and Stern still does this – ideally, there are going to be a lot of these games operated. It should be something that will draw people to want to play the game. So I think you're right when you say that the band signing off, that doesn't mean you get carte blanche. This is not a vanity project to – they can go get their own custom game made if they want to have stupid art. Yeah, they're saying snakes and sparklers. Right, right. We need more. But I'm okay with the art. I don't love it. I don't think it's going to win any awards. but I don't hate it. I think it's definitely above the old Photoshop-era style look. Absolutely. And he followed all the main rules for you pinheads out here. You guys, you know what you are. We know what we like. He oversaturated all the colors, so you'll fall for it popping, and that's all that really matters. A lot of colors. Don't Photoshop and color pop. Got color pop. We got a color pop. Have some characters in there we like. We like that kind of stuff. If Stern had done aliens, I tell you, they would have found a way to bring in yellows, oranges, and reds and pop them. That would have been awesome. They'd just be like, let's just put explosions everywhere. Yeah, overall, it's been a hell of a seller compared to what I thought it was going to be. So we've been happy with it and hope to get my hands on one soon so that we can see if it's all that it's cracked up to be. So that's Rush Pinball. Yay! I want to know, nobody's really been talking about this. We kind of teased it a couple of weeks ago. Saw a YouTube interview overseas with George Gomez coming out saying that he is going to have a game design in 2022, later in the year. That's huge. It is, but poor George. Poor Gomi. He's so busy. He's ever so tired. The assumption I had when I heard this was that, okay, he's assigned to finish a Steve Ritchie project. and he acted as if it wasn't in the plans to design a game but kind of circumstances came up right right and what and what else would it be everything else has been acquisitions like they brought on jack danger they but what's their one big departure on the design front is Steve Ritchie yeah and steve said he had a you know he had a whitewood quote-unquote ready to go when he left so he was clearly far along on something i think the thing is is george going to tweak steve's layout or is george going to just be like trash it and just redo the whole thing himself and you know i think it's going to be the latter yeah yeah george doesn't want yeah he doesn't want to yeah his tone made it sound like this was like a big time sink for him if it was just tweaking a near complete layout it wouldn't be but i think it comes down to you know ego essentially that george does not want to yeah i and i don't blame him for this i don't think george wants to just put the finishing touches on something Steve did. I would do the same thing. There was a moral imperative for him to completely redo Trudeau's Deadpool. Like, they could not go out and give Trudeau any credit. That was a given. That's not the case with Steve, but I do think George is like, no, if it's going to have my name on it, it's going to be my game. Then the rumors swirling around are, you know, you get your 007 with maybe a Kapow partnership. Yeah, I've been hearing that. Originally, though, I'd heard that Elwin is a huge James Bond fan. But there's also the rumors that Elwin's doing Back to the Future. Oh, don't you. And maybe he's a huge fan of both. I don't think Stern is quite to the point where they'll let Elwin just have everything he wants. Though, given the popularity of his games, they might be getting to the point where seniority doesn't matter. Elwin gets first pick. And if they're not, I would suggest they consider it. I would suggest they consider it. That might sound unfair to the old dogs, the veterans, but you know what? You do not want to lose your cash cow to another company. Well, if Kapow came in and did another studio title with Stern Pinball, we know that the first two that they had done, that being Batman 66 and The Beatles, both kind of retweaked and reconceptualized by George Gomez. Yes. And I will say that the Beatles one is the one example where I wonder, okay, but George has shown before he's willing to lean heavily on someone else's layout. Because that was obviously the Sea Witch layout was just modified. So other than that, I mean, he's done modification before, but it's been his stuff, like the Dark Knight turning into Batman 66. So in those regards, I definitely could see him possibly taking Steve's and making it. But I think that would only come down to if he absolutely just didn't have the time to take one of his, you know, I think it'd be more likely for him to take one of his other layouts that he did in the past and say, you know what? Lord of the Rings was pretty good, but I could make it better. Do we get the Gomez ramp in his next game? That damn same ramp material and everything that we've seen in Batman and in Deadpool? Sure. It's the same part. Yeah. They probably got a whole room full of those. There's one part they're not short of. Let's use it again. The Gomez ramp. Go give me a couple of those Go Man's Ramps. Very possible. I've also heard, I don't know the validity of this, but I've heard that there is at least one other designer at Stern Pinball that has completed a layout and completed a game in the past, and it's kind of just sitting on a shelf, too. I've heard that. Okay. Maybe a veteran designer. I would believe it. I don't think – people act like that it's like when they hear about the development cycle of these games and hear that it's like a year to 18 months or whatever at Stern, that the designer is spending 18 months moving every little post and stuff. And we've heard on the Loser Kid interviews with Elwin, he's like – generally, it sounds like he's usually got three playfields in various stages of completion. So they definitely aren't investing a year in that play field in the way that I think people think, where it's 40 hours a week poring over every little piece of geometry. First 20 minutes and we're already dropping bombs on these people. Well, I mean, don't forget, Gottlieb used to turn in Premiere era, turned out games in three months. It was the software that stunk, not so much the layout. But that's arguable. What else can we cover about Stern Pinball? We did receive an email. Well, I have something. Yes, I brought up in this. I replied to it because they didn't ask for it to be on the air, so I won't say their last name. But Dan wrote in. He wrote in. I think he was writing in really to reach you, Zach, but to talk to me about my – Yes. It was very polite to Zach, and it was criticizing my lack of research because I guess I – I don't even remember saying it, but it sounds like something I definitely would say, that Rush was more popular than Iron Maiden. Dan took major issue with this based off of album sales. Uh-oh. Maiden fan. Here we go. Well, and you see, I, of course, just flippantly went off of the, well, Iron Maiden didn't have any radio or TV time, so really, are they more popular? Rush is on the radio all the time. But that was a very good point about the album sales because that is a solid metric you could use. And in that regard, as you pointed out, Rush hasn't even had half the album sales that Iron Maiden has had. Oh, that is significant. Okay. Yeah. So you went back and looked. Well, he sent his numbers for Iron Maiden and Rush, but I thought, you know what? I'm kind of curious about the selection process. One of the things, this came up with my co-host Tony on Eclectic Gamers podcast was, aren't we near the end of the dad rock? And I'm like, I don't think so. Yeah, I heard Tony say that. But if we were going off of album sales, it's sort of like are we going down into the deeper cuts, as you like to say. This is a deep cut. And so I actually went and I pulled together a list of all of the rock band games that Stern Pinball has done under Stern Pinball since 1999 Wow okay Under their name Stern Pinball So hopefully I didn't miss any. So here are the 11 I pulled in order of their release, just real quick. Okay. So Elvis was the first one in 2004. Then the Rolling Stones in 2011. Make no mistake, yeah. ACDC in 2012. This is when it starts to get really heavy and they start really leaning on doing rock things. metallica 2013 oh yeah kiss 2015 aerosmith 2017 iron maiden beatles and primus all in 2018 wow led zeppelin 2020 and rush 2022 okay so so that's 11 that's 11 games a lot these here they are in order of estimated in some cases uh worldwide album sales oh it's good okay so this and the major one of a true estimate is really elvis so elvis is at number one all as well as being the first one they did uh with a billion estimated worldwide album sales uh then beatles is number two so that surprises me i would have thought beatles over elvis but okay i would have i would of has well and it's interesting because so beatles is a 600 million albums worldwide however in the u.s 183 million confirmed album sales elvis was 146.5 million oh so maybe so that could be why because beatles perhaps was bigger than elvis at least in album sales in the u.s um the third most popular one led zeppelin oh yeah uh at 300 million worldwide and i'm assuming that stern would have done Zeppelin sooner if it was easier to get their lives. Notice, Beatles and Zeppelin were both kind of hard licenses to work with or secure. Number four, back second just after Elvis there, Rolling Stones. Oh, yeah. $240 million worldwide. Number five was the next game they did, ACDC at $200 million. That's a pattern. Okay. Now it kind of gets a little bit out of order. Aerosmith is sixth with $150 million. Aerosmith's big. and then Metallica at $125 million. That's almost surprising. And then Kiss. Then Kiss at $100 million worldwide in eighth place. Then is Iron Maiden at ninth, which eight and nine is tied because Iron Maiden is listed at $100 million as well. Okay. So think of that as shared. It's a lot of sales. We'll co-hold them at eighth place. But Iron Maiden is the ninth one on my list. Then 10th is Rush, $40 million. Okay, that's a big draw. Huge fall off. And then Primus is 11th at 5 million. But that was a very limited run. Yeah. So there we go. We're ranging from like a billion to 5 million on major releases. So Rush really is quite a smaller band to get a cornerstone. Everything else that got a cornerstone had at least 100 million in sales worldwide. You think they're trying to sweep up that Canadian market? well you know i it definitely wouldn't it does it's not a bad idea and you know that's not they're not having to do like a bunch of shipping containers and stuff because that's still a land route so it's possible huge in pinball but half the tpn members are canadian but but you know you and i we've talked off air about and and some even on in terms of other quote-unquote dad rock bands that are going to be in this range especially if rush if a 25 million uh album sale band is popular Yeah, if that's the threshold, we've got a lot more. Yeah, I mean, are we like Santana? Santana, yes! I love Santana. And I don't know what their album sales are, but they're listed in one of the top, you can find them in dad rock band groups of the most popular. We talked to Beach Boys before. I love Beach Boys. One we were talking just before we went on the air that I think you and I both would really like to see is, where's our Fleetwood Mac? Where is our Fleetwood Mac? absolutely 100 i would buy that it's just they're one of the the rumors albums one of the few like all albums i like every song do we call that dad i guess that's dad rock it is it is i mean they they date back far enough but uh that one's still a little too cutting edge for folks what ccr where's credence yeah i want to know i mean we got some really we got some really big ones would be great because stevie nicks uh being a female we we don't have that strong presence of a you know, of a lead, lead singer. Her vocals are really very much associated with, with Fleetwood Mac. She doesn't sing on every song that they did, but, but almost all of their big ones highly involve her. That would be good. And it's just, I mean, and there's, there's some, the rumor is, uh, the rumor mill says Foo Fighters could happen by Stern Pinball this year. Uh, like a Jack Danger design is Foo Fighters. They hold their own in those charts at all. I guess they're more, they're more nineties, but I get, Hey, Does dad band go into the 90s now? I think it kind of does. Right. Well, Foo Fighters is estimated at approximately 20 million album sales worldwide. So they're smaller on sales than Rush is. But they've been around for a fourth of the time, too. Sure, sure. But if we're going like that, why not Nirvana, which is like 75 million? So you've got a lot stronger base. As long as they don't make the Eagles, I'm fine. Poor Eagles. Or U2. Those are the two crustiest bands. I don't want to hear that shit. But there's other stuff like Chicago. Yes, that's a pretty hot dad band. Journey. Yeah. There's a rumor going around about Journey. I heard of PGP. I would love it. Sticks? What about Sticks? All I want to know is where in the hell is my Pink Floyd pin? That's what I care about. I'm surprised you don't want Toto so much. But, yeah, Pink Floyd, huge. Toto would just be one song. Yes, but maybe one song is all you need now. God bless. I won't say anything about Heart. I'll get an angry email from Jeff Teel. I really like Heart a lot. I do, too, now. You do, too. I do, too, now. Yeah, I do, too, now. Lest you face his wrath. Okay, so, Tony, we have a way to go on the whole dad rock thing. Oh, yeah. I'm sorry, Tony, but there's plenty of dad rock still with really high sales, higher than Rush. I mean, that's the threshold. Well, Stern Pinball over the next decade, listener, is going to have about 10 of these that we've mentioned. And then once this next decade comes up, then we'll be into the early 2000s, and it'll still be dad rock. But one of the things I thought was sort of interesting as well is Stern really did not start doing a ton of the rock band strategies new. Like, it didn't really trigger until 2011. Yes, that's true. Because Elvis was an outlier. And then all of a sudden they just poured it on. I don't know how well Elvis sold either. Yeah, well, I mean, that was still. The dark days. Yeah, that was the dark days. Same with Rolling Stones, kind of. Yeah, that was still. I mean, ACDC is always the year after. I didn't remember that Rolling Stones. I've never played Rolling Stones. Never seen it. I've never seen anyone with one. So I forget that it was only a year later, but ACDC is that game where, to me, that marks the turnaround. A lot of people talk about 2008 and the investors coming in and saving Stern as a turning point. But to me, from a consumer standpoint, it's ACDC in 2012. That's when they had another, finally, another hit game. You haven't had a hit since, what, Simpsons and Lord of the Rings. I completely agree. And I think that marks the start of what we know now as the band pin, the rock and roll pinball machine. When you get ACDC and you couple it right behind it with Metallica that hit so hard, that's when it started. And I think Stern Pinball says, you know what? We can really pull at the heartstrings of nostalgia here with people who buy pinball machines with these bands, more so sometimes than even old films or old TV shows. Yeah, and since ACDC, they have never gone more than one year without doing a band pin. And a couple of those were close, like Led Zeppelin. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you go to IPDB and you see Led Zeppelin. It will say premium and LE are 2021s instead of 2020s. Okay. And similar breakdown on, I think, one of the other ones as well. Plus, you start looking at the special edition because ACDC got multiple runs. So it actually shows up in some of these other years where they may have been vaulting. so they didn't do a cornerstone rock band. But anyway, thanks for the email, Dan, because it made me think, you know what? Let's look at these album sales, because is there a critical mass that we need? And currently I'm going to say, well, $25 million sounds like it's enough, and maybe $5 million isn't, so somewhere in between is the answer, if album sales even equate to the success of a pin, which that's a guess, but it's not a bad guess. And I would posit this, listener. I'm going to chew on this one this week. do we attribute stern pinball to the birth of the band pin or do we give credit more to lime and sheets think about that if we're talking about band pins let's jump over to chicago gaming company you think they ever do a rock and roll or band-based pinball machine uh no my answer is yes well it was a it was a blind it was a blind guess on my phone so uh cgc rumors of it maybe we may start seeing it this week you guys heard me talk about it that's a little a pequeno a little bitty bitsy witsy bitsy small little run of cactus canyon se's leaving their factory boy i'd cactus canyon just seems like a thing of the past at this point but this is what they do they did it with Monster Bash. They did it with everything that comes out. So do you have a sense on the status of the non-SEs? Are they all done? What do you mean? Well, I thought that... I remember I was really confused right after Expo because CGC had indicated a really aggressive release schedule for Cactus. And I wasn't sure at the time if it included the SEs. I don't remember if you thought that it did or didn't. But definitely the impression was at least that all the LEs would be shipped before the end of 2021. So I'm asking you, did that happen? The original, I think that they were pushing for some LEs by the end of 2021, but the complete LE run done by the end of January. That will not happen. Okay. Because I was just like, I could not fathom how they, unless they had already stockpiled everything they needed, I was just like, wow, how can you do this when no one else can? And I can tell listeners that they have the majority of every part for thousands of games. what's held them up I think I can say this it's like one or two parts they've been waiting for it's that hat that lifts off of the bash toy that stupid hat has ruined everything that damn fart hat no it's been a couple parts and then they've been sourcing them from different places this one part that's what the hold up is but that's no excuse because everybody's got to face that same parts delays and parts supply issues. And it's always been the same lineup. SEs first, then LEs, then SE Plus. It's very similar to the Pro Premium LE. The famous SE Plus. We've seen it so many times. Epsilon, baby. SE Plus. So I'm hoping to have my hands on one and have it for a stream, whether it's Joel or BD and gang, hopefully next week or two. What about American Pinball? I still haven't got my hands on Legends of Alhalla. Has the hype died for Love? Yeah, it has. Was there ever hype to begin with? There was for a hot minute. A hot expo minute? You remember? Yeah, actually a hot pre-expo minute. There was that one part where they said, oh, we're going to do 250 LEs or whatever. And then our 300, I forget the number. It doesn't matter because they changed the number. They changed the number and they had that really weird, and by weird I mean bad excuse, where there was like, well, not everyone in the world had a chance to order it before they sold out. So we decided to change the total. And then we've seen other companies do this before. I still remember when Stern did it on Munsters and thought it was just as tacky then. But it's like, but what I heard right after that is when they raised the count, they then did not all immediately sell out. So the hype may have been real, but it definitely did not have a high ceiling. I see – this is just me being crusty. I see dealers selling these things or having one in stock here and there, and I'm like, I ordered some. What the hell? I think, honestly, I truly think that American Pinball is a little salty with me. Why? I mean – Why? Do you think it's because you worked on the CGC trailer for Cactus, and they're like, I don't like you? No, because what was it, Tom Graff and I think Joel, we were all hanging out at Expo and Day Fix was somebody, I think Joel or Tom said, why didn't you have straight down the middle do the sizzle reel Day Fix? And he was like, I don't know, Zach, why didn't straight down the middle? I'm like, oh, don't give me that shit. I talked to you for months before and told you we could probably do one and you never reached back out. So don't be trying to throw me under the bus. Okay. I think they're salty with me, but I don't know why. Maybe it's your association with me. Sometimes I do say things. I'm pretty honest. Are you? Yeah. Maybe it's because of what I say. Maybe I got you in trouble. No. Did you think about that? They probably love you. Yeah. I have that effect on people. Every one of them around. Yeah. I love the other persons. I don't know why I don't have a Valhalla. My longstanding campaign for apologies to artists who were told that they used mediums, they actually used told they didn't use them and they did yeah i think monet did a finger painting last i heard oh monet do we even do we even dennis at this point see them making these standard models because you remember they'd they never priced this they were exactly no i don't i don't think that either i don't see the point and they need to move on no they i think that that would And, you know, I'm not going to – it's not something I'm going to hold them to. I don't think they promised that there were going to be standards. I think that their language, as mucky as it and murky as it's been, was always more along the lines of if there was enough demand, there would be standards. And I don't think there is. So you heard it here. American Pinball has no standards. Is that what you're saying? I said it like in a nice way. Headline. Where's the Dennis Nordman original game at? I bet we see it this year. Two games a year. I bet we see it. I bet we might see it only in a photo, you know, three months before the formal getting to touch it. Oh, wait, no, that's CGC that does that. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe at the, you know, Baton Rouge Expo for Tackle and Lodge. I mean, I'm sorry, but I'm trying to remember. Where did they reveal Hot Wheels? It was like in some weird, like, scrub event. That's so good. and so that's what it feels like is Chicago Gaming is the one where they announce the name of the game and then they don't show you anything of it for several months and American Pinball is the one that reveals all their games at events but they're not pinball events they're like bass fishing events cell phone footage why doesn't anybody want to buy our games you know what and it goes all the way back to when they were going to do that J-pop version of Houdini and they had it at that casino place this is a long standing thing for them your Hot Wheels promo video is too positive and getting too much exposure pulling yes i'm just saying what the hell i'm just you know what they should have done uh and we know david fix instead of talking to you at all about it straight down the middle doing the sizzle they should have gotten the pinball adventures people and get like one of them wizard videos i want one of those wizard videos do you like vikings and dead women I'm all out. The last I checked, David Fix, remember he said, I want as many games coming out every year as I like twirls on my mustache. And that's two. Two twirls. So I don't, hopefully, I'd like to see a Dennis Nordman original game. I still think we'll see it. Is it going to be a good theme? It'll be right there next to the live bait. I think Dennis Nordman has no choice but to have a better original theme than Valhalla or Oktoberfest. Well, and I agree. But let me clarify. I'm not going to hedge now. I'm pulling back. I'm not going to say. Mike Myers. Let me say. Let me just be. And I thought it was just because I thought they said the original would be first. But I think we see a Dennis Nordman game from them this year. I'm not going to commit that it's going to be an original necessarily. I lost track of what their order was with their originals versus licenses. Yeah, we got another original coming next. That's what I thought. But I'm like, maybe I don't remember because my brain don't work so good anymore. Yeah, no, here's the thing. If they don't put out his game this year, I think he quits. Yeah, that canary will fly elsewhere. You gave me an engineer. You have to, Lucius, build me something. Where's my damn engineer? You're my Lucius. I need my science. That poor guy can't get a game out. Why does this Nordmobile not work? You hear this over at Spooky Pinball. Hey, guys. I'm going to see if... I've worked with P-Rock before. I just... I just imagine this is so mean. Oh, gosh. I apologize to all the people that work for these manufacturers. I'm being so mean, I feel, today. And I don't mean it to be overly mean. I just imagine Desartment coming in to take care of the rest of the Halloween Ultraman run. He just brings a cart of cold patch. The stuff that he used to fill potholes. It just fills in half those scoops. There you go. Fixed. I thought he would bring just like a pallet of foam core. We're going back to the basics. I'm just like... Can you imagine old man Nordman with those young bucks over his spooky... Oh, man. This is Design 101 class. Listen. Squirrel. Bugs. Any other rodents around here? Oh, man. So the Baton Rouge Exposum, we're going to see another AP game, huh? That's what I'm hoping for. I'm guessing we see it before June. Not much of a help there. Honestly, I'm going to say I'm not going to go that early. I'm going to say I think they will definitely have something at or before Expo. And I do think it's only going to be one game this year. How long is it going to take them to build 500 Valhalla? I don't know. It depends on the ability to get the parts. It's not really their capabilities to actually – their manufacturing capabilities aren't the issue. It's a supply issue along with everything else. But you know how they are. They don't ever close out their back catalog. That's true. They're going to end up saying, well, we have to do a month of Houdini and a month of Hot Wheels, and they'll pretend to do a month of Oktoberfest, and maybe then? I'm going to go out on a limb and give a strong prediction here, Dennis, to our listeners. I predict that the next game from American Pinball will be original. It will be designed by Dennis Nordman, and it will be their greatest theme since Houdini. So you think it's Sherlock Holmes just like me? I don't think it's Sherlock Holmes. I do. I think it will be Sherlock Holmes, and I think it is a great theme, and I think Dennis will do it. I think his theme is, albeit original or not IP that they have to purchase, I think it's going to be better than Hot Wheels. I wasn't hot about the Hot Wheels theme. Yeah. I mean, Hot Wheels, I thought, came out as a pretty good game, but definitely a C-tier license. I know that everyone knows Hot Wheels, but the problem is there's no intellectual property that anyone knows with it. Yes, there was a YouTube show, but no one knows it. Sure. So we don't know where CGC's game's at. We don't know where American Pinball's game's at. What about Haggis? Do we know where Haggis Pinball's at? Oh, Hoggis. You know how to let the air out of them on. Hey, Hoggis, why don't you do a Rob Roy Pinball? It'd fit your name better. We have no update in 2022 as of right now. We're midway through January. Damien said Fathom was going to be on the line in January. Right. He originally said July. Then he was saying January. Do you think this happens? Maybe in name only. What do you mean? Like they might actually do one to keep the – remember when – I'm sorry to throw back to American Pinball. Remember when American Pinball was like whatever year they were going to get Houdini out, so they built one on like New Year's Eve? I remember that. Like that. Again, if it's mostly supply issues and stuff, maybe he's got enough of everything to do a few, and maybe he does one or two to just sort of, one, keep his word, and two, reassure folks. Yeah. Because I think that's starting to become an issue for him. Yeah. Do you think people are growing tired of this waiting? Are they worried? Oh, absolutely. Are they angry? Oh, absolutely. Pinball people are like all other people. They're very impatient. No one wants to wait for this stuff. It helps his fathom. That's what's helped my weight. because I'm very impatient. But with Fathom, I'm like, eh, it's Fathom. And I agree because a lot of people, it's not like, in a way, it's not like a new game. Exactly. In theory, everyone in on the order has probably played an original, I would assume has played an original Fathom. They know what they're getting at minimum. But there still a lot of that hype and excitement or there was around what Marty done with the rules on the revisited version And that the one Those are probably the most impatient people Plus Damien had that He built that really good. Him and Spooky, they had that. We talk directly with people. We're involved on forums and stuff. They had that sort of. It feels nebulous with the Stern and the JJP because they don't talk to you a lot. It's all like press releases and talking to IGN. And that really resonates with people when they – like Spooky is very respected because they always have a presence on the forums like on Pennside. And Damien, I feel, had a lot of respect because they were doing a ton of weekly updates and videos of what was going on. You actually saw what was going on. The thing is, Kelts is a very small run. And so I think people are starting to not only be impatient but are worried a little bit. And we've seen this crop up. You can have all of the occasional statements of reassurance from Marty or from Damien or whoever, but it's like it was only a handful of Celts games. So how established of a manufacturer is this? Not very. And we have to remember that we saw a lot more full throttles out of Highway than we did Celts out of Haggis, and people are going to draw this. Now that you have to produce a lot of games, can you do it? You're not making your timelines. Money has been exchanged. Yes. With information that July they were going to start. Here we are six months later, still no information. I think that's where people are getting caught up. If there wasn't money exchanged, then okay, it happens when it happens. I mean, the bottom line is, and this is true for anything and anyone, and for all these manufacturers, is missing deadlines always looks bad. but it worries people when you're a newer company as fair or as unfair as that is and honestly i think it's a fair worry so given that it's just and again we know from all these other companies it's not their fault that there are all these delays but when it's a new startup you just how do you know that it's not their fault is the thing that comes into play well said i couldn't have said it better yeah what cures this as soon as the first five go out everything will be fine But until then, I think it's a building and growing concern that a lot of people are having. And that's where, if Damien can, even if it is, yeah, like five of them built in January. It's something. And it's sad as it is to say that that's better than actually holding and trying to get them all. Because I could see where they might think, you know, people are going to be mad if we send out five. And they're going to be like, well, yeah, of course those five people. I'm like, they're the Ed Robertsons of the world. They always get game one. Elitists. Yeah, yeah. And at this point, it's better to show that you can do it than to worry about that. That's a minor worry. Don't worry. Don't lose sleep over that. Yeah. And there's a lot of worrying in pinball. I mean, hell, this last week, I have to admit, we are dealers at Flip N Out Pinball for Pinball Brothers. But I have a little anxiety about unboxing their brand new standard version Alien Pinball machine in my showroom. Why? well alien i've heard well because of highway number one uh number two but this isn't highway this is pinball bros and there have been much much less issues that have cropped up from the highway days on these machines i'll give them that but there have still been numerous issues from alien owners many many from the the earlier runs of the pinball brothers they couldn't have made that many so far but this is more this isn't considered an early run than i got this is more new stock here. So I unboxed it, and I told these listeners last week, or 87 minutes ago, what my impressions were. This is a dream theme of yours, but you have no desire, right, Dennis, of having an alien? Yeah. I mean, it's one of my favorite franchises, and I'm not as, well, I guess this demonstrates, I'm not someone that will feel compelled to buy a game just because I love the theme. Yeah, I don't like that it's a wide body. I don't like the geometry of the shots. it's not a terrible game but not enough for me to want to spend that money on it let me ask you this you've went through a lot of games have you ever purchased a game that you would consider the theme being one of your dream themes no I guess not so it may be tough until you really own one because it's hard to get rid of something that is a dream theme okay I think that depends on the person Oh absolutely and I think typically you are true in what you're saying but you never know I mean it's just like I like Star Trek I've seen all the movies I continue to watch The Walking Dead but you know it's like I don't know it's not why I got the game it's because I watched the show that's true so I want to run down real quick for the listener Dennis since you love this segment that I call things I like things I don't about Pinball Brothers Alien Pinball Machine. See, it's got a ring to it, doesn't it, this whole segment? It's kind of wordy, but... Things I like being good at. Yeah. What do I like about Alien Pinball Machine, Dennis? Well, it's alien. It's iconic. And it has assets. Theme integration is superb, really high. And this thing overall is just fucking gorgeous. It is a pretty, pretty pinball machine. Man, what's not to like, right? What don't I like about Alien? Well, the layout is a bit different. There's no single shot that I would call orgasm-worthy. Not one. And that's tough. I like one crucial shot that makes me tingle downstairs. And it's a wide body. And I'm here to tell you, listener, it feels like a wide body. Some of those wide bodies can kind of trick you a little bit. And the more veteran I get in pinball, the more I'm turning away from wide bodies. And this one does feel like a wide body. You've said that before, right, Dennis? Wide bodies just don't feel as well. Well, and, you know, it's not something that you need to take my word for. Look at Pat Lawler. He's spoken at length about this. Wide bodies are an excuse to stick in more toys, and you have to because it's just an inferior geometry, and they really struggle to use it all, especially, I think, the closer you get to the flippers. Because how can you reach those far-edge shots? That's true. And there are some far shots on this game. I just wonder what this layout, because it's a novel layout, but I wonder what it would be like with a standard body, crammed in a standard body. I know all the geometry changes, but I think it could maybe work. I mean, it's not, as I noted, it's not, in my view, a bad layout. Everything's just a little not as good as it could be. So the answer would be if they had made the decision to slightly rework it and put it into a standard, I think the answer is it would be better. I think so too. But it is what it is. What do I like about Alien Pinball Machine? Well, I like a lot of the build components. Unboxing this thing, I'm honest. I was scared. I was worried. I didn't know how they'd package it. I didn't know the materials they used. This is a new company to me. But I was pleasantly surprised. The cabinet is phenomenal. The build on the cabinet is great. Even small details like the metal leg protectors. They do a nice transparent leg protector. Things like the mechanisms in them. They're using great materials in these mechs. Now, the functionality of them and the code and stuff, that's another story. But the actual build and everything, they've really put a lot into this game. A lot of details went into it. And it really shows. I love, love, love a lot of the build of this game. What I don't like about Alien Pinball, just my anxiety surrounding the durability of this product. It's been flaky for some people so far. They've had to fix things. They've had to replace boards. They've had to replace monitors. They've had to, Xenomorph has been a monster for people. But I can report, mine so far, it's grindy and she's loud with her little tongue. But it has not failed once. It works very well. The whole game works very well. The whole game need minimal tweaks. Really haven't even tweaked anything at all. Out of the box, it has been great. But I still have this anxiety surrounding like, but when does it break? It's kind of like owning a big Lebowski. I have the same anxiety. Like, well, it's great now, but when is it going to break? And will I be able to fix it? So I have that anxiety still. That's why I don't like about Alien Pinball. I have had one issue pop up. It's been a flaky monitor. It only happened one night where I had to cycle the games a couple times. I looked into the forum, and this has been a common report by people where the display and monitor, the main one in the backbox, has been flaky. Like it just won't boot. It starts booting, and then once the code boots into it, it just is black. Does that just happen right after you turn the game on, or can it crop up at any time? Thus far, it's just when you turn the game on. Either it comes on or it doesn't. And you see it scanning like a JJP, like the monitor is working, and then it's scanning, it's initializing, initializing, right when it boots the rest of the play field in the lower play field monitor, that's when it just either works or it's black. And you cycle it. I thought so too because it's like, well, it's getting the program. Right. It's almost like once it goes into the new resolution or something, it's not outputting anymore. So that's been strange, but that was two nights ago, and every time I've played it since, it boots right up. So I'm going to keep my eye on that. A couple more things that I really like. The code's fun, but Xenomorph Ball Lock is an actual moment. It's coded really dark. I don't know what they were doing there. So when the Xenomorph goes to get her tongue out to pick up the ball, the playfield lights are out. It's supposed to be scary. Yeah, but it's a moment. That is the moment of this whole game. You want to showcase that. I don't know why they code it dark unless they're like, we don't want them to see the tongue wavering and jittering. The tongue, it's so long. Did you ever see Kung Pao enter the fist? It reminds me of Tonguey. It's Tonguey. Where's the time when I was younger I could do almost all the same voice as Steve Odekirk could, but I cannot anymore. Such an underappreciated film. So good. you should be able to beat him now you should be able to beat him now that sounds like alvin jones well i don't think he actually voiced the woman in the show so i never could do her quite right but uh wing low what do you have to say the beaver nunchucks gopher chucks or gopher chucks i must use gopher chucks so yeah overall i really like the code on this game modes are modes are great and the whole Weapon utilization at the start button is very appreciated. It almost feels like a walker bomb kind of thing. I'm loving that. I don't understand the complexity of the different weapons doing different things yet. I'll get there. But overall, I like the code. What I don't like about Alien Pinball is a big one. It's missing components, Dennis and Liz, that are essential to what Alien Pinball should be. You've heard it before. You should continue to hear it. It's missing Sigourney Weaver. Oh, yes, yes. It's missing. she is the main character she is alien that's that license she is just as much xenomorph as that in that franchise that's my argument it's missing that and that's a big one it's also you know what else is missing listener fucking lighting this game you already brought that up with tonguey but this game overall is darker than rob zombie i can't see shit on this game it's all rgb it's Scary. Sure, it's beautiful. And all the little details, like they do transparent. It's like plastics under the plastic, like covers. So smart. But I will be adding Penn Stadium to this game. And everybody in the forum, no, it's going to be dark. It's going to be eerie and scary. That's right. You're going to take the scary away. No. If I can't see the ball, people, it's not fun. Play better. No. No. I don't know what they were doing without adding spotlights. So, ladies and gentlemen, things I like, things I don't about Pinball Brothers Alien Pinball. We'll see where it progresses, but I've been pleasantly surprised thus far. In other news, Dennis, I found a very heated little debate on a pinball group page in Facebook. The post was created by Mitchell Evans. Mitchell Evans created a poll with the following. Seven-hour personal drive to deliver a used world poker tour to the buyer. who refused to purchase after complaining about scratches on the back of the machine. Okay. So, the guy drove seven-hour personal drive, so three and a half hours one way, as a seller. The buyer backs out because they said there's scratches on the back of the machine. So, there's a poll with plenty of options. Leading options include, what a jerk, no delivery without a deposit, the back should have been disclosed you should never have agreed to delivering it 7 hours away cut the dude off and never sell to him again shipping non-refundable nuke him from orbit, it's the only way to be sure hope he offered to reach around and things like never deliver until new owner inspects is happy and places a deposit all kinds of options here so initially when I read this I thought But shit, I would have been so upset if I drove three and a half hours and the guy is complaining about some scratches on the back of the machine. Yeah, that's a really elitist behavior. Yeah, it's a world poker tour. Of course there's going to be scratches on the back of the machine. That's how they transport it. When you sit up vertically, you're going to get it. It is what it is. But then I thought, well, it's this dumbass's fault for driving three and a half hours to deliver a machine with no deposit or anything. But then I thought, well, no, that guy's a jerk if he's going to say no because of scratches. So, listener, if you haven't seen this, think to yourself, what might you have done? Would you have been upset? Who's this on? Is the owner on the seller, the owner? What's the deal? Big old heated topic here. There are 150 comments. Wow. But here's the deal. So you guys are probably in the same books as I was. I was like, yeah, that kind of sucks. but then again, why are you driving that far kind of thing? Here's the problem. I was on this guy's side, but these so-called scratches on the back of the machine look like a fucking Wolverine tore into it. I've never seen, like, I don't know what happened to this thing. It was like a bobcat attacked my wife. It's horrid, Dennis. I'm going to send you an X-ray. I'm sending you a picture of this I don't know I don't the listeners don't know I actually I'm not a member of that group so I can't access this to look at picture's coming now oh my god this looks like my firepower that should have been disclosed this looks like a game I've never owned before pleased by the firepower wow this is a lot look at that wow there's no black left in some of these yeah I can only assume he did not have this in the sale photos yeah he did not disclose this there's no way this happened in that transport This is not minimal. I think he pulled it behind on the ground all the way three and a half hours to deliver it. So it's not like a deal breaker, but that should definitely be disclosed. Yeah, I would have wanted to know about that. I would still own a game like this because it's going to go up against the wall. But, yeah, it's not, you know, when I hear scratches, I thought, like, the part that's on the warning where just a few little gashes, not like I used it as a sanding table. Wow. Okay, yeah. Here's what I love. I love that the plastic little nubs are on there. It's like, okay, at this point. That's the thing, the nubs. Both were installed after. The lower left ones, yeah. He's got the little transport nubs it's like, but we don't believe in using them. Where we're going, we don't need nubs. We'll use the corners of the cabinet. That's right. That's what the wood's for. So I saw this, and I was like, yeah, you've got to disclose that. Wow. And for him to even bring up this topic, knowing that this potential buyer is going to be like, look, asshole, I took a picture, and here's what it is. So, yeah, it got heated. Oh, so the potential buyer is in the thread? Yes, the potential buyer is in the thread. Oh, okay. Well, that explains why there's so many comments. It was a fun read, I'll tell you that much. But at the end of all of this, have you ever been in a situation, listener or Dennis, where you meet up with somebody for a game and initially, even before turning it on or anything, let's say you're meeting at a gas station. I've done that plenty of times. And you initially see something that wasn't disclosed. Do you back out? What do you do? Do you try to talk them down for the price? Because I would feel bad. I've taken it on the chin. I'm going to be honest. When things come to me and I'm like, shit, this isn't as described, I'm just like, you know what? That's on me. I'll take one for the team here. Yeah. I mean, I haven't had this exact scenario, so it's difficult. The closest I can say is there have been instances where there's been a game, and I'm going to travel a significant distance for it. And I might ask a few questions. so I'll ask questions or I might ask for a few more photos but normally like if I'm worried that someone else might buy the game at some point I usually cross a threshold and I say here's the amount based off of what you are giving me I will commit to this and at that point I do not I don't second guess it I don't even look for other things once I go until I get it home and I'll be like okay yep there were other things that weren't working like they might describe it as functional and it's like wait one of the pop bumpers isn't actually working I had that happen on one game. It's like, you know what? No, that's fine. I decided based off of the photos that it was good enough for me. Now, I would, as a seller, never transport. I absolutely would never do that. If I were to go, but if I were willing to, I would have separately said, okay, well, this is going to be a separate transport fee, and you will pay it to me regardless if you buy the game or not. Yeah, that's a good idea. And you're going to pay it to me up front. so that's because normally here's the here's how i do like if someone wants i've shipped games uh twice uh to to buyers i won't even do work for them i'm like if you want it shipped you will call the shipping company they will now in reality yes i've actually helped because i've been like oh god they're not even taking the head down yeah so i've gone ahead and i've intervened and i've wrapped it yeah take it off the legs but but yeah but you're not palling it palading it oh no I don't even take it off the legs. Of course. Okay. I'm like, it's like, no, you can call STI and they're going to load it up with legs on. And if you have a problem with it, you can find another shipping company. But I am not disassembling this game for you if you're not going to come out here and get it. You have to arrange everything. I used to just refuse to ship, but it's easy enough when they're. It's not too bad. Yeah, that I've made a couple of exceptions, but not driving it out. It's like, if you want it that bad, you need to, like, especially nowadays, pinball is so hot right now. I don't need to drive it anywhere. I'll find a sale local. It's not that big of a deal. Well, that and I've purchased plenty of machines without even seeing pictures. I'm very liberal when it comes to these things because what I do is – I can be a mean little bastard. I'm so generous and so nice until you cross me. But I will, for better or worse, I will lend trust to any stranger. and you know if they say it's a home use only walking dead they'll say okay you want to see pictures and i'll say well if is there any pictures of anything i need to see on it that isn't what it's supposed to be i expect there to be bumps and bruises send me any pictures if you want to but if it's what you say it is now no pictures needed then i just meet them but the minute i get that game and they were not truthful hashtag dead of me i've never contacted anyone after the fact, though. I have one person. They said it was home use only and the damn thing was routed all to hell. And I'm like, you son of a bitch. Just be honest with me. And I've not had, on actual purchases, the worst thing that ever happened to me was I went all the way out there and they sold the game to someone else and wasted my time. Oh, I remember that story, yeah. So that's like the worst. In terms of picking up stuff, yeah, there's been some stuff that's been more squirrely than I might have thought. my sharky shootout i bought i knew it needed work so again and i got it for a great price but uh that thing was way more squirrely than that guy let on so it was like okay but when i buy used i usually uh especially at the price points i was buying at i would usually expect them to be projects to some extent so probably just a fuse you know he actually i want to think did is that what he said no no that guy was mr oh yeah i think this is an issue with a bridge rectifier And I thought, wow, he's actually suggesting something more serious than a fuse. And in reality what happened is he had removed the or someone had I going to blame him the what that safety interlock switch at the coin door Yeah. Well, the way it would close circuit, because he'd actually have the power killed, the high voltage power killed when you'd open the coin door. It stripped the two wires bare so they would touch each other when the door was closed and complete the circuit. And then when you'd open them, they'd space back out. I was like, what sort of, the switch was in. the coin box what i would have rather you have just bypassed and kept the power on all the time i was like why would you strip and expose bare wires like that i've gotten lucky with some ems picking them up because they quote unquote don't work and i just don't look them over if the game looks nice and doesn't look like a hack job i'll i pay very minimal for ems because i don't think they're any of them are worth it so uh i'll pick it up and then i'll take it home and i'll get lucky and i'll be like oh shit it's just that they didn't press the left flipper button before pressing start or something that's it works yeah i had a i had an em that was 150 dollars and they had someone had i'd expect a whole huge mess because the fuses were all like replaced with foil wrapped fuses one of those yeah and no i think a uh a metal leaf switch or something had fallen loose and and had shorted something out at one point but after moving it you put in the fresh fuses all worked. Yeah, I love that kind of stuff. And it's like, okay, well. I won't pay typically over $100 for an EM. I don't care. Well, you must not find them very much anymore then, because even EMs have gone up. And my life is happier, because every time I buy an EM. Well, you remember that when you start thinking about Centigrade 37. Not my baby, my hip. It's still there for me. It's still there. Speaking of EMs, did Centigrade 37 get into the pinball machine hall of fame last year? I'm pretty sure it was Grand Prix. The one everyone picks as their favorite. Double spinner, baby. Maybe it'll get in this year. We've had a lot of votes for the Pinball Industry Awards Pinball Machine Hall of Fame. I think voting is closed, isn't it? You know, I think so. I think it closed. David Dennis manages that side of the ballot, but I think it was supposed to close a few days ago. Now you guys at the PIA committee, you guys were initially thinking about the potential for kind of little videos releasing the honorees, but now... Yeah, we were thinking little vignettes, little hors d'oeuvres, little appetizers, but there was so much blowback. There were like two people posted on the Finside thread, which made me think, okay, well, there were some requests to do something more ceremonial style. So, yes, the decision was made. We were finally able to figure out a way to go ahead and do a full kind of video So, you know, that we can like YouTube Premiere or whatever. Yeah. So, yeah. So there's that. And sometime here, like the 28th, I think, is what we're shooting for. Okay. Tentatively kind of the 28th looking at. Yeah. Well, it'll probably be announced once it's written in stone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just there's still a few pieces that have to be put together on it. Stay tuned, listener. Mark your schedules for the end of January because the 2021 crystals are coming and should be a lot of fun. Yep. It will happen January. We always get the stuff out before February. We operate on very, very tight time frames. That cannot be adjusted. The easiest way to do that is to go follow, like, and subscribe to the Pinball Network YouTube now. Hell, you get a new VOD of gameplay every single day, Facebook and of Twitch. Let me ask you a question. Why do you like your friends? Because they're nice and we have fun together and we do stuff for each other. Not because they all look like models? No. Maybe that's because deep down inside you know that how a person looks on the outside isn't nearly as important as who they are on the inside. Right? Right. It's time for the one, the only, if Bob Saget was still here with us, this would be his favorite pinball podcast segment. RIP, Bobby. It's pinball market trends. Pinball market trends. Trending up this week. I don't know. It seems like I just trended this up, but numbers don't lie. I can only report the facts here, so it behooves me to do anything differently. It's Jurassic Park Premium by Stern Pinball. I was predicting a month or two ago that you would see a quick rise in Jurassic Park, especially the premium LA. We've seen the LA go for $20,000. I talked about that. But if you look right now, Dennis, on the marketplace, the premium itself is now a standard that it is selling for $12,000 for a Jurassic Park premium by Stern. Wow. If that's not a trend, I don't know what is. So if you're looking for a Jurassic Park premium, you can do one of two things. You can pay $12,000 for one for a really nice one, or you can wait around. They're doing another run in April and hope like hell that you're on a dealer's list. I sure hope I'm on a dealer's list. I'm not. We'd figure it out if you need to be. But it pays to have friends. Jurassic Park Premium is trending up in a big way. And if you have one and you're getting tired of it, now might be the time to let her go. Because once April comes around, you're going to get more of them into the circulation. And they might come down a little bit. But that's a big-ticket item right now is a Jurassic Park premium. Also trending up this week is the old switcheroo, perfectly executed by TPN's very own Joel Engelberth. Dennis, you know what I'm talking about here? Oh, yes. This was Trixie. Wow. I didn't think old Berthy had it in him. Now that he's got that drywall up in his basement, he's got all sorts of time on his hands. Yeah. That's what I call a gypsum. What is it? Gypsum? Gypsum board? Drywall gypsum? I don't know anything about drywall, sorry. I call it gypsum cockiness there. Old Joe, he's got a... I think he snorted a little bit of the wall. Oh, gypsum. Anyway, he pulled the old switcheroo on a recent episode on TPN. They did kind of a talk show, videocast, podcast kind of thing. And I even was talking about it last week. but what I didn't know is that they did have Tom Graff, I thought, on there. They just had a static picture of him, so I thought that was weird, and I thought, well, maybe Tommy G's having some video problems, but Tom Graff was just delivering comedy, pacing, timing, and he was playing his role to a T. It was even making the guests laugh. It was making the audience laugh, and I was in on it. I was like, damn, Tom, he's on point. Come to find out, Joel Engelberth, listener, played the old switcheroo. Tom Graff was not there. He had pre-recorded from their previous podcast some one-liners that he had in his soundboard. So he would just interject them every once in a while, and it fooled everyone. Everyone thought for this two-hour show that Tom Graff really was there and really was playing the role that Tom Graff often does. It was pretty magnificent. Yep. I missed this, but I saw all the feedback, and apparently it was highly successful. I think beyond even what Joel expected. It was very clever. I was a little jelly on that one. So nicely done. I'm going to trend you up this week for your creativity and pulling off one. Is that why you have me as a soundboard for this episode? Well, anything somebody else does, I do better. So, yeah, I had you all queued up. You know how long it took me to go through like 200 episodes of our podcast together to get this? Press Dennis remark now. Yes, that's a good point, Ken. Unfortunately, trending down this week, speaking of Jurassic Park, is Jurassic Park. The pin. Jurassic Park, the pin is trending down. What? It just came out. How's it trending down, Zach? Well, numbers don't lie. And we're seeing them on the marketplace. everything else is up higher than MSRP. This thing is lower than MSRP, and some of them are sitting. Not a lot of big number of sales haven't been crazy high on this game either. It is up for awards nominations this year, so we'll see how it fares there. But you don't hear much about JP the pin. I think it's just the casualty of us being in the collector and the competitive kind of group. so this is more geared towards the family or just the the the novice the the yeah i i mean i haven't i still haven't played it yet but based off of the feedback it sounds like most people that have a lot of experience with pinball wouldn't find it too hard to get through the rule set yeah so it's got some cool things going on i haven't played it either really so but given that i i would assume because you know the art and stuff has been pretty well praised the layout's been pretty well played raised but if you're someone that and we know a lot of people are like this where they kind of play the game until they quote unquote win it and this one i don't think would be that hard to win so yeah well and i'm seeing prices for the data east go for more secondarily than the prices for jp the pin so that's part of it too those are up those are down but what's going to save your wallet in this week's deal of the week bye bye bye i told you guys deal the week zenith creasel would really like one of these entries. Still the week this week on Pinside, right outside of Newcastle, Pennsylvania, by username SEC2267. That is a sexy name there. I wonder if he's doing the Deep Root investigation. Yeah, something's going on. But they have a Gottlieb 1987 game that they are selling. It's a very nice example. They're listing it for a friend. That's always weird. It's been kept in a nice home for over 10 years. It wasn't a shitty home. Cabinet playfield, very nice. Boards recently serviced and upgraded. That is always a plus for the Gottliebs. Playfield is clean and serviced. Prefer buyer. Pick it up. But they'll ship if necessary. They'll give it the old creasel. The game is in Canfield, Ohio. How do I pick this up? I want this. This is a Gottlieb Victory. I like Victory. Yeah, did you see him here in Perk Up there listening? This is a beautiful, fun-looking game. I've not played Victory. Oh, not even virtually? No. Oh, yeah, I probably have virtually. Yeah, it's one of the pinball arcade games. Yeah, there's really one thing to do, but it's like ten shots. It's just going through the checkpoints then? Yeah, yeah. In fact, I always instinctively want to call it Checkpoint because the game's constantly like Checkpoint 1, Checkpoint 2. But, of course, Checkpoint is a different game. It's got an interesting upper play field with a couple ramp entries from the upper play field. You got some drop targets. This looks like a really fun game, and you don't see victories pop up very often. So this is $2,800, and for as clean and good-looking as this game is, Oboe, I think it's kind of a steal in this marketplace right now. Buy, buy, buy! I really do. I would value this game closer to the upper threes. So if anybody wants to go pick up Dennis Rye, a victory from Canfield, Ohio, just let us know. Otherwise, pick it up for yourself because this is a deal of the week. Your other deal of the week this week is a Stranger Things Premium. How can those be deals? With the UV kit? Yeah, those are overpriced. It does have the UV kit. It also has the Stern topper. And not only that, it's got the Stern shooter rod, illuminated shooter rod, speaker lights, mirror blades, rotating arcade sign, lighted dice mod. essentially everything you want to put minus powder coat on Stranger Things premium. The game only has 239 plays. It's outside of Salida, California, and everything in California is overpriced, but not by Slug039. That's a name. Slug039. They're selling this game for $11,000. It sounds crazy, but I assure you that is a really, really good deal. Stranger Things premiums right now are going to go for $11,000 or $12,000 in nice condition. But if you take this $650 plus dollar topper, the $150 speaker lights, the $180 shooter rod, the $300 something dollar UV kit that they're not making anymore, so good luck finding one. You put all of this and it's already installed, $11,000, steal it. Take it. Take it now. Buy, buy, buy! Because you'll always be able to sell it for that. That's a deal. I was playing mine last night. I finally got the node board back in that was missing and I sent it to a customer. that needed one. That game is phenomenal. It's so good. It's really a good game and I'm glad it's finally getting the love that it rightfully deserves. No updates to the pinball bounty and deal the what the F this week. We're going to take a week off because that was a doozy last week. We don't need another one of those for quite some time. And as always, listener you know I'm here for you. I'm here to report the facts because numbers never lie on Pinball Market Trends. What is it, honey? It's just not fair. First I lose my mom, then grandma leaves, now I even lose my own room. Everything keeps disappearing. I know exactly how you feel. And I know how much you girls miss your mother Because I miss her too Very much But you still got me You got me too You got Michelle And you have your uncle Jesse and Joey DJ, we're still a family And now is when we really need to stick together. DJ, you and I, we go back a long time. Ten years. The ten happiest years of my life. So look, it's up to you. Either you move back inside, or all five of us are moving into the garage. But nothing is going to break up this team. I'll move back in. I love you, Angel. You too, little ballerina. Dennis, my comrade. My bruh. we're closing the show down it was a good show I felt this one I thought you were going to take a week off you've been like the Cal Ripken of pinball podcasting don't die is Cal Ripken still alive? probably but man you've been Mr. Consistency making me look bad but no you said there's no rest for the weary isn't that the statement into the turn. Rest for the wicked. What is that? The wicked sleep is for the wicked? Shit. I think you just make up these catchphrases. Maybe it's an Indiana thing. Where can people catch you? They can always email thecollectedgamerspodcast at gmail.com or go over to thefacebook.com slash thecollectedgamerspodcast and shoot a message over there. Or they can always email thepinballnetwork at gmail.com. You usually check that, but occasionally it's about my research skills. I'll go in and find it myself. That's right. Be very careful. because there's some people that read that. Multiple people have access to that email account. I might have been having to monitor it because of the PIAs. Yeah, it was convenient, and it was there, and it had your name in the title. You can catch me at the pinballnetwork at gmail.com as well. Also, sdtmpinball at gmail.com. I have some fun stuff there. If you're flipping out pinball, Zach, Z-A-C-H, I'd flip the letter in outpinball.com or call me, text me, 812-457-9711. A product showcase this week for Flip N Out Pinball is the Jersey Jack Pinball Guns and Roses LE. You have some, Zach? Well, I tell you what, I will have some in stock within two to three weeks. We've got a big shipment coming in at the end of the month, and I think we've finally, finally fulfilled all of our back orders with this upcoming shipment. Hallelujah! So the end is near. I think I'm one of the last dealers, too, that still has back orders. So, yeah, it feels like they're wrapping up, Dennis. Well, I've been hearing good things about their production levels lately, so that's good. And we'll have some in stock. So if you did not get a chance to get a GNR LE, don't buy one over MSRP. We are selling them. We're selling them for that. I think they're $11,000 plus shipping. A little break if you come pick it up. But if you want one, I've got spots available here in the next couple weeks. You can also come to Flip N Out Pinball for a Houdini Deluxe model right now. Also, I have a Batman 66 LE pre-owned right now. Get yourself an Elvira 40th Anniversary. Godzilla, oh my gosh, a couple people have been unboxing those Elviras. Phenomenal, spectacular. Godzilla Pro pre-owned over at Joel Engelberth's. I don't think anyone, everybody's sniffing, everyone's kicking tires, but nobody has pulled the trigger yet, I don't believe. If you want a spot for a Cactus Canyon SE or SE Plus, we've got those as well. The iconic and infamous Star Wars Premium Comic, objectively the best version. We have that pre-owned as well as a limited edition Beep Boop Beep Topper. You can get that too. That's expensive, but we got it. I think I have one or two Willy Wonka LEs left new in the box. If you want Godzilla toppers, Godzilla armor, Godzilla whatever. If you want Rush Topper, hadn't even been shown yet, but if you want to get on the list for that or any Shooter Rod or any Expression Lights, do so now by emailing me, Zach, Z-A-C-H, at flip with the letter N, outpinball.com, or texting me. You can do that, too. We'll get you on that list. No deposits needed. You pay whenever your stuff is ready to ship, as well as other banners and escalators and merchandise. Buy some decals, people. Dennis has got some decals coming his way. Or buy a T-shirt. They comfy. last week on tp and a lot happened we had uh streaming every single day of the week that thing has grown like a giant and i think the industry's finally seeing what our vision has been and they are gobbling it up because numbers don't lie and we have had thousands upon thousands of views on those gameplay videos so nicely done tp and team and pointing something i was watching two nights ago, Dennis, very epic, a Fox City stream for the Wisconsin State Championship. The finals came down to Neil Graff versus Neil Graff's dad. It was a battle of father and son. You could feel that conflict. Very empire or return. Or succession. Are you watching Succession? No, I've not heard of this. Oh, fabulous show. It's probably the best on television right now. I think you'd really like it. But, yeah, is the dinner table going to be awkward? Is mom going to have to break it up, these two fighting, throwing mashed taters at each other? I'm not going to give away the winner, but I will say it was a damn good finals, best of five event. Go check that out. TPN this week, you're going to have to follow, like, subscribe to TPN's YouTube, Facebook, and Twitch. I don't think there's any specific announcements as of recently, but we're going to try to get to those top ten lists again, I believe. And I think it's it. Does anybody else need to know anything, Dennis? Am I missing anything? No, that's everything I was aware of. The old switcheroo. I see you, Jill. I see you. For Dennis Creasel, I'm Zach Minney. And, folks, if you're going down the soap aisle and you see a bunch of people opening up all the body wash and poofing each other in the nose with all the various scents, Just remember this line from Kung Pao Enter the Fist. That's a lot of nuts. And always practice safe pinball. And when you're lost out there and you're all alone, life is waiting, Dennis, to carry you home. Mishabob Saget. Everywhere you look. See you guys later. Everywhere you look. Mishabob Saget. My name is Betty. My name is Betty. Your colors are black. Betty. I forgot about Betty. I heard a scream. No, I don't know. Not here. All right. Well, I'm not on my meds that control the voices. So it could be that. Hey, you thought our streamers had anxiety? Let me tell you about me, Zach. Surprise! It's Alvin Jones. I'm just a figment of his imagination. A little girl that can turn her head all the way around has been haunting you since childhood. I love pea soup. I think we're good. That's going to be a good episode. I'm feeling that one. Do-ba-da-ba-ba-da. God, I love that show. _(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_ --- *Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 26d48a47-d67a-4a5f-b300-6d776a0bd1a1*