# Drinks With Jack Featuring Art Leads Jeremy Packer, Steven Martin & Chuck Ernst (Part 3)

**Source:** Stern Pinball  
**Type:** video  
**Published:** 2026-01-05  
**Duration:** 8m 9s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RCOQZRURK4

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## Analysis

In this Stern Pinball video, art leads Jeremy Packer, Steven Martin, and Chuck Ernst discuss licensing challenges and creative processes behind recent Stern games. Key topics include difficult licensing negotiations (including a story about a Led Zeppelin licenser without computers), the impact of Taylor Hawkins' death on Foo Fighters development, and the collaborative creative freedom the team experienced on games like Foo Fighters and Metallica.

### Key Claims

- [MEDIUM] A Led Zeppelin licenser refused to use computers or fax machines and required physical FedEx letters for approvals — _Host anecdote about licensing process; presented as humorous but not directly attributed to a specific speaker_
- [HIGH] Foo Fighters drummer Taylor Hawkins' death mid-development forced significant changes to planned content including custom animations and callouts — _Jeremy Packer explicitly states: 'their drummer died and that reset a lot of what the work that was being done'_
- [HIGH] The band members were originally going to be involved in LCD work, filming segments, doing original music, and animation for Foo Fighters — _Jeremy Packer: 'The band members themselves were involved in the LCD work. They were going to be filming segments. They were going to do original music'_
- [MEDIUM] A licensing approval meeting required moving elements around for 3 hours with no visible difference from start to finish — _Steven Martin anecdote: 'he's sitting behind Greg for like two or three hours and they moved the approval around for 3 hours and then finally after 3 hours the guy behind him goes that's it'_
- [HIGH] Foo Fighters was positioned as 'the closest thing we're going to get to an original theme' to prove Stern should move toward original themes — _Jeremy Packer: 'this is the closest thing we're going to get to an original theme. So we need to prove the point that we need to move to original themes'_
- [HIGH] Phil Gullett is a former Warner Brothers animator who worked on Foo Fighters — _Steven Martin: 'Phil Gullett is one of the former Warner Brothers animators'_
- [HIGH] Foo Fighters creative direction was ultimately decided to celebrate the band's families, particularly Taylor Hawkins' family — _Jeremy Packer: 'let's finish this off. Let's make this to celebrate the family uh all the families, but in particular um Taylor's family'_
- [HIGH] The Foo Fighters game concept involved the band traveling around cities solving mysteries — _Jeremy Packer discussing initial creative direction based on band's tour van film and the eventual mystery-solving concept_

### Notable Quotes

> "their drummer died and that reset a lot of what the work that was being done"
> — **Jeremy Packer**, ~18:30
> _Key revelation about how Taylor Hawkins' death impacted Foo Fighters development, forcing major creative pivots_

> "this is the closest thing we're going to get to an original theme. So we need to prove the point that we need to move to original themes"
> — **Jeremy Packer**, ~12:00
> _Reveals strategic intent behind Foo Fighters—using a major license to argue for original themes as Stern's future direction_

> "We're like, 'No, this is not that Scooby-Doo. This is a different Scooby-Doo.' It's like a modern Scooby-Doo"
> — **Steven Martin**, ~22:00
> _References Gary's apparent negative history with Stern's Scooby-Doo game and the team's effort to differentiate Foo Fighters' visual approach_

> "he's sitting behind Greg for like two or three hours and they moved the approval around for 3 hours and then finally after 3 hours the guy behind him goes that's it"
> — **Steven Martin**, ~8:30
> _Illustrates the absurdity and inefficiency of high-level licensing approval processes in pinball_

> "Metallica is all about like make it cool and we're like is this cool? They're like that's cool. And then we're like okay we'll just keep doing more of that"
> — **Jeremy Packer**, ~26:00
> _Describes collaborative, iterative creative freedom experienced with Metallica licensors versus restrictions with other licenses_

> "Foo Fighters easily because uh... I had worked with the band for years and so I had a little bit of a relationship there that I knew was positive for the most part"
> — **Jeremy Packer**, ~10:00
> _Indicates personal relationships and pre-existing band connections influenced game development favorability_

> "I remember Jack said at that time like next we do King Kong. And I go I don't know. I don't know about that one. now. And it got ripped out from under me"
> — **Jeremy Packer**, ~14:00
> _References prior involvement with King Kong game concept that was taken away; hints at internal project allocation tensions_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Jeremy Packer | person | Stern Pinball art lead; designer/creative lead on Foo Fighters and Metallica games; primary speaker discussing licensing and creative process |
| Steven Martin | person | Stern Pinball art lead; shared licensing anecdotes and contributed to creative discussion |
| Chuck Ernst | person | Stern Pinball art lead; responsible for animation work including miracles pulled on Foo Fighters animation |
| Taylor Hawkins | person | Foo Fighters drummer who died during game development, forcing significant creative and logistical changes |
| Foo Fighters | game | Stern pinball machine; designed by Jack Danger; theme impacted by drummer's death mid-development; features mystery-solving narrative |
| Metallica | game | Stern pinball machine; referenced for positive, collaborative licensing experience with band allowing creative freedom |
| King Kong | game | Stern pinball game; Jeremy Packer was originally involved but project was taken away; Elwin took over development |
| Scooby-Doo | game | Prior Stern game; apparently has negative history with Gary; referenced as visual inspiration (modern style) for Foo Fighters |
| Phil Gullett | person | Former Warner Brothers animator; worked on Foo Fighters animation |
| Jack Danger | person | Stern pinball designer; designed Foo Fighters; mentioned regarding discussion about original themes and King Kong |
| Tanya | person | Stern team member involved in Foo Fighters creative discussions about original themes strategy |
| Jody | person | Stern team member who serves as licensor liaison; responsible for standing up for creative decisions with licensers; 'always the messenger' |
| Greg | person | Stern team member mentioned in licensing approval anecdote; subject of 3-hour approval review |
| Gary | person | Stern team member with apparent negative history on Scooby-Doo game; reportedly dislikes that property |
| Elwin | company | Competitor manufacturer; took over King Kong game development after Stern project was reassigned |
| Warner Brothers | company | Major IP licensor; Phil Gullett and other animators from Warner Brothers contributed to Foo Fighters |
| Stern Pinball | company | Manufacturer; producing Foo Fighters and Metallica; dealing with complex licensing arrangements |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Licensing challenges and negotiation dynamics, Impact of Taylor Hawkins' death on Foo Fighters development, Creative freedom and band collaboration on Foo Fighters
- **Secondary:** Original themes strategy and positioning Foo Fighters as proof of concept, Animation production and Warner Brothers animator contributions, Comparative licensing experiences (Foo Fighters vs Metallica)
- **Mentioned:** Internal Stern project allocation and King Kong reassignment

### Sentiment

**Mixed** (0.55) — Discussion is largely humorous and reflective, with frustration about licensing process balanced by pride in creative achievements on Foo Fighters. The tone when discussing Taylor Hawkins' death shifts to respectful and somber. Overall positive about creative outcomes despite licensing difficulties.

### Signals

- **[community_signal]** Stern team made decision to pivot Foo Fighters thematic focus to celebrate Taylor Hawkins' family and the band's survival of tragedy (confidence: high) — Jeremy Packer: 'let's finish this off. Let's make this to celebrate the family uh all the families, but in particular um Taylor's family'
- **[competitive_signal]** Stern successfully negotiated creative freedom with Metallica licensors, receiving iterative positive feedback on design choices (confidence: medium) — Jeremy Packer: 'Metallica is all about like make it cool and we're like is this cool? They're like that's cool. And then we're like okay we'll just keep doing more of that'
- **[design_philosophy]** Foo Fighters creative direction evolved from band's actual tour-van documentary into mystery-solving narrative inspired by Scooby-Doo traveling-van concept (confidence: high) — Jeremy Packer describing how Foo Fighters conducted tours in van, leading to creative direction of 'traveling around from city to city' solving mysteries
- **[design_philosophy]** Foo Fighters positioned as proof-of-concept to argue Stern should move toward original themes rather than relying solely on licensing (confidence: high) — Jeremy Packer: 'this is the closest thing we're going to get to an original theme. So we need to prove the point that we need to move to original themes'
- **[licensing_signal]** Licensing approval processes are inefficient and absurd, with multi-hour reviews resulting in imperceptible changes (confidence: high) — Steven Martin anecdote about 3-hour approval review with no visible differences; also references need to use Jody as licensor liaison/messenger
- **[personnel_signal]** Jeremy Packer had pre-existing personal relationships with Foo Fighters band members that influenced project positivity and creative autonomy (confidence: high) — Jeremy Packer: 'I had worked with the band for years and so I had a little bit of a relationship there that I knew was positive for the most part'
- **[personnel_signal]** King Kong game project was reassigned away from Jeremy Packer to Elwin; reason unclear but timing suggests internal reallocation during Foo Fighters development crisis (confidence: medium) — Jeremy Packer: 'And it got ripped out from under me. I couldn't do it. So, and Elwin swooped in. He just swooped in and took it.'
- **[product_strategy]** Foo Fighters development significantly disrupted mid-stream by Taylor Hawkins' death, requiring major creative and scheduling pivots (confidence: high) — Jeremy Packer: 'their drummer died and that reset a lot of what the work that was being done' followed by discussion of abandoned plans for band involvement in animations and custom content
- **[technology_signal]** Foo Fighters animation entirely produced by Stern team (Chuck Ernst and recruited Warner Brothers animators) after band became unavailable due to grief/recovery (confidence: high) — Jeremy Packer: 'the whole animation it was all all animated somehow he pulled together another miracle'; Chuck brought in former Warner Brothers animators

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## Transcript

Wasn't there something about uh Led Zeppelin and one of the persons we had to like actually mail physical letters to because they refused to use a computer? because they don't have a fax machine or a computer. 

 One of the licensers had to be physically FedEx letters and and approvals. So, it's it's in in old 

 Didn't he say he didn't have he had he didn't have a computer, right? 

 No, he didn't have a computer. 

 Yeah. Yeah. 

 Yeah. He was living in a treehouse apparently like looking up the And you had to put it in a bucket with a with a rope up to his house. But uh but yeah, no it's uh it's like and also right now the the movie industry is just in disarray and so everybody wants a piece of everything. 

 So it is it's a licensing is a minefield. I got I got one story about uh well a couple but uh the one that stands out is uh they flew a guy from the licenser like they flew him out took him to hotel wind and dined him brought him in and then he's sitting behind Gre Greg for like two or three hours and they moved the nostril around for 3 hours and then finally after 3 hours the guy behind him goes that's it and then he goes I think we're good and but when you look at it from where it started and where it ended. You couldn't tell the difference. That's what licensing is about. 

 But But just as a counter to all the bad licensing. 

 Yeah, I don't have anything. 

 That's the end of that story. 

 I'm kidding. I'm kidding. 

 I mean, to that point, like we we hear what we can't do or what we can do, then we execute that, but then we have to put it in Jod's hands, and he has to be the one to stand up for that stuff. So, he's the one that's being told, "What the heck are you doing?" or this looks great. Uh, but more often than not, this can't be like this and this has to change. 

 He's always the messenger, which is never good. 

 It's never good to be the messenger. 

 What would you say has been the most interesting project for you to work on? 

 Oh, well, that's I mean, I'm not going to pick favorites and and not just 

 Pick your favorite right now. Make sure it's my game. Not just because Jack's up here, 

 but uh Foo Fighters. 

 Foo Fighters. 

 Foo Fighters easily because uh 

 three people. Thank you. Um I'm kidding. There were at least four. 

 And uh no uh Foo Fighters. Uh I remember when we when we got it and I had worked with the band for years and so I had a little bit of a relationship there that I knew was positive for the most part. So I'm like like I'm going to get away with murder. No, I didn't I didn't think that. But and one of the things that we talked about very early on, Tanio Klyce, Jack and I was like this is the closest thing we're going to get to an original theme. So we need to prove the point that we need to move to original themes. And I remember Jack said at that time like next we do King Kong. And I go I don't know. I don't know about that one. now. 

 And it got ripped out from under me. I couldn't do it. So, 

 and Elwin snoops. He just swooped in and took it. No, it was definitely Foo Fighters. Foo Fighters was uh you know, other than we ran into a very difficult Here's another licensing story. We ran into one huge terrible problem midstream, their drummer died 

 and that reset a lot of what the work that was being done. The band members themselves were involved in the LCD work. They were going to be filming segments. 

 They were going to do original music 

 and and some of them were going to animate. 

 That's all I I That's what I heard. 

 It was They were going to work under Chuck. 

 We were going to get custom callouts. We were going to get all sorts of stuff. Yeah. 

 Yeah. and and so it it that the band itself had to work on the band surviving their own issues and so we sort of kind of got a little separation at that point. Um which which actually led to more freedom you want to get? 

 Well, it's because do we keep moving or do we stop here? And it was we all decided like 

 let's just push forward with what we think this should be and then we'll catch back up with them when they come out of the ground. 

 Yeah. and and it finally got I remember that the at one point cuz it was unknown for a while. At one point we we all sort of met with their management and everything else and and we all kind of decided, hey, let's let's finish this off. Let's make this to celebrate the family uh all the families, but in particular um Taylor's family. And so uh so at that point we sort of had our direction and we went with it. And then Chuck and his team uh I don't know I don't know how we did it but 

 the whole animation it was all all animated 

 somehow he pulled together another miracle 

 and uh and we actually got what we got. 

 It was a lot of animation animation. 

 Yeah. So, um, with with that, we we had, uh, uh, Phil Gullet is one of the former Warner Brothers animators, and then, uh, and and we pulled in a couple of other Warner Brother animators, and we basically were like, you know, think Scooby-Doo, but Foo Fighters and and um, apparently there's a history with Stern and Gary with Scooby-Doo that he doesn't want to talk about, but he's like, I hate Scooby-Doo. We're like, "No, this is not that Scooby-Doo. This is a different Scooby-Doo." It's like a modern Scooby-Doo. 

 Is that where the van came in? 

 Well, that's that's actually So, the before we even had that license, I had talked with Jody and again, he knew that I worked with the band and and stuff like that and and I and Jody and I hashed it out one time. We're just talking like, "Well, we ever do a game, it's going to just be Scooby-Doo." Like, they're they're just traveling around in their van. They had actually done a film where they basically uh pretend I mean where they drove around uh in their van to all of their their uh their tour. And I'm going like there's no way they did that. But they did. And uh and so we have to assume it's true. And I said, you know what? I bet they were solving mysteries along the way. 

 Fighting aliens and robots. 

 Getting a couple uh Scooby snacks along the way. that that was kind of like the only direction that we or I was given was like the band wants a game about traveling around from city to city figure out how to make that interesting and then that's where you know all the story like leaning on your poster work and all the animation stuff it it was awesome it the very first idea of having them murder people in every city they were like very well I don't know about the murdering I'm like it'd be like it'd be like the the horoscope guy and they were like nah and then we were like well what if it's not amusing music pin 

 and it was just them walking around. It was great. 

 Yeah, that's probably one of my favorite uh experiences cuz we were just let we were let loose. You know that and Metallica Metallica is all about like make it cool and we're like is this cool? They're like that's cool. And then we're like okay we'll just keep doing more of that. And then then we did that. 

 Well guys uh that was fun and I think we're going to stop talking there. Um, thank you everybody for joining us. Uh, and thank you to Jeremy, Steven, Chuck, folks. Thank you for, uh, hanging out. Hope you have a great rest of your expo and, uh, we'll see you on the next one. Thank you, friends.

_(Acquisition: youtube_auto_sub, Enrichment: v1)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 29bac89c-c432-42be-8fb2-aabdbd273517*