# The Pinball Show Ep 152: The Big John Wick Episode

**Source:** The Pinball Show  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2024-05-08  
**Duration:** 71m 58s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://www.thepinballnetwork.net/e/the-pinball-show-ep-152-the-big-john-wick-episode/

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## Analysis

The Pinball Show Episode 152 focuses on Stern Pinball's announcement of John Wick as their latest cornerstone release, with hosts Zach Minney and Greg Bone providing detailed technical and design analysis. The episode covers production updates, the design team behind John Wick (led by first-time designer Elliot Eisenman), artwork by Randy Martinez, and comparisons of Pro/Premium/LE models. Additionally, the episode discusses industry rumors including Metallica 2 with Spike 3 hardware, Jersey Jack's planned late-2024 release, Dutch Pinball's Back to the Future reveal, and Chicago Gaming Company's ongoing delays with Pulp Fiction and Cactus Canyon.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] John Wick Pro model is already in production and shipping; bulk shipments starting early next week — _Greg Bone states Stern is 'shipping' John Wick Pro 'in bulk early next week' and some may ship this week_
- [HIGH] John Wick will have 1,000 limited edition units produced — _Zach Minney explicitly states '1,000 units of LEs' with no price increase on Pro/Premium/LE models_
- [HIGH] Elliot Eisenman is making his first appearance as lead designer on John Wick — _Zach states 'this is his first time as lead designer' and congratulates Eisenman; Eisenman previously worked as mechanical engineer on James Bond, Rush, TMNT, Ghostbusters, Star Wars_
- [MEDIUM] Metallica 2 rumored to debut Stern's new Spike 3 board, potentially releasing at Chicago Pinball Expo in fall — _Craig Bobby reports 'hot rumors flying that Stern's next release could be a sequel to their Metallica machine, dubbed Metallica 2' with Spike 3 'rumored likely to be released around the Chicago Pinball Expo this fall'_
- [HIGH] Jersey Jack Pinball plans a new game release at late November 2024 IAAPA Expo (not Chicago Expo) — _Craig Bobby cites interview with JJP founder Jack Guarneri in Replay Magazine: 'Jersey Jack Pinball fans can expect a new game later this year... likely to be released at the IAFA Expo in late November of 2024'_
- [MEDIUM] Dutch Pinball's Back to the Future will be revealed at a launch party during Chicago Expo — _Craig Bobby reports 'Nap Arcade is reporting that he is hearing talk that Dutch Pinball's next game, rumored to be Back to the Future, will be revealed at a launch party sometime during the Chicago Expo convention'_
- [HIGH] Chicago Gaming Company Pulp Fiction buyers have waited over 1.5 years; units shipping in 'dribs and drabs' — _Craig Bobby states 'Some buyers of Pulp Fiction have now been waiting over a year and a half for their machines, as CGC has only been spitting out finished units in dribs and drabs this year so far'_
- [MEDIUM] Cactus Canyon expanded code kit expected 'sometime later in 2024' — _Craig Bobby mentions 'much-hyped but seriously delayed release of the expanded code kit for Cactus Canyon, hopefully coming sometime later in 2024'_

### Notable Quotes

> "John Wick is an engineer's game because you don't have one big, large bash toy that you hit. You have this world under glass with a lot of moving parts and a lot of details on the different mechanisms throughout this game."
> — **Greg Bone**, mid-episode
> _Identifies John Wick's design philosophy emphasizing mechanical complexity over singular feature toys_

> "The Pro is pretty packed. I don't know if I put in for the extra Premium LE features."
> — **Greg Bone**, early-analysis
> _Suggests Pro model may offer good value relative to Premium/LE, indicating potential buyer hesitation over tier differentiation_

> "The gold leading, they're raised off the back. You can feel with your hand that gold leading. So you have a lot of that reflective gold in there too."
> — **Zach Minney (attributing Seth Davis)**, back-glass-discussion
> _Details LE back glass craftsmanship; raised gold leading adds tactile premium quality element_

> "I am so sick and tired of 180 ramps in pinball. I know they're space savers, but there's one 180 ramp that I'm totally fine with because it is so smooth and feels so good..."
> — **Zach Minney**, ramp-analysis
> _Expresses design fatigue with common ramp choice but acknowledges execution quality matters_

> "It's definitely an engineer's game because you don't have one big, large bash toy that you hit. You have this world under glass with a lot of moving parts and a lot of details."
> — **Zach Minney**, design-philosophy
> _Highlights John Wick's emphasis on mechanical depth and detail-oriented design approach_

> "The Platinum Edition of Elton John is selling so well that JJP has already had to go back to suppliers to buy more parts to meet their customers' increasing demand."
> — **Craig Bobby (citing Jack Guarneri interview)**, jersey-jack-update
> _Indicates strong market demand for JJP's Elton John, requiring parts sourcing for additional production_

> "I kind of think I might prefer the pro back glass. The baby beagle... premium I'm not terribly mad at... but man I don't know, I kind of think I'm on that pro for us pretty sharp."
> — **Greg Bone**, back-glass-preferences
> _Host expresses preference for Pro aesthetic over Premium despite LE's stained glass detail_

> "If I'm buying an LE, I'm buying it for beauty. I'm buying it for just that extra ounce of detail, for the extra parts, for the extra bling in it."
> — **Zach Minney**, tier-discussion
> _Articulates buyer expectations for LE differentiation; suggests some uncertainty whether John Wick LE justifies premium over Premium tier_

> "They went all in on it. They did go all in on that neon feel."
> — **Greg Bone**, neon-noir-discussion
> _Acknowledges Stern's committed aesthetic direction with fluorescent edge plastics and saturated colors for neon noir theme_

> "I don't know if many people are talking about this, but some of the complaints that I have heard are, man, the premium LE looks awesome, but I just don't know if there's enough there for the LE to make me jump to the LE over the premium."
> — **Zach Minney**, tier-differentiation
> _Signals emerging community concern about LE value proposition; key market sentiment signal_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Stern Pinball | company | Major pinball manufacturer announcing John Wick as cornerstone release; also producing Elvira, Jules, Jaws, Black Knight Sword of Rage |
| John Wick | game | Stern Pinball's newest cornerstone game announcement; Keanu Reeves/Ian McShane licensed title; designed by Elliot Eisenman; Pro/Premium/LE tiers; 1,000 LE units |
| Elliot Eisenman | person | First-time lead designer on John Wick; veteran mechanical engineer for James Bond, Rush, TMNT, Ghostbusters, Star Wars; inducted into Pinball Hall of Fame |
| Greg Bone | person | Guest host on Pinball Show Ep 152; co-host of Straight Down the Middle and Flipping Out Pinball; tech department lead for warranty/submissions |
| Zach Minney | person | Host of The Pinball Show; owner/operator of Flipping Out Pinball podcast; co-creator of Straight Down the Middle |
| Randy Martinez | person | Artist on John Wick; Lucas Films appointed artist; worked on Mandalorian, Star Wars Comic Edition for Stern |
| Tim Saxon | person | Lead code programmer on John Wick; previously worked on Rush, Led Zeppelin, Black Knight Sword of Rage, and Deadpool |
| Robert Blakeman | person | Mechanical engineer on John Wick; previously worked on James Bond 60th, Jurassic Park Home, Stranger Things, Deadpool, Game of Thrones, Kiss |
| Joshua Henderson | person | Major software contributor alongside Tim Saxon on John Wick code |
| Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Boutique pinball manufacturer; Elton John Platinum Edition selling strongly; planning new game release for late November 2024 IAAPA Expo |
| Jack Guarneri | person | Jersey Jack Pinball founder; interviewed in Replay Magazine regarding upcoming JJP release |
| Chicago Gaming Company | company | Manufacturer of Pulp Fiction (delayed 1.5+ years) and Cactus Canyon with pending code kit expansion |
| Dutch Pinball | company | Pinball manufacturer; rumored to reveal Back to the Future at Chicago Pinball Expo launch party |
| Charlie Benanti | person | Music composer on John Wick; member of Anthrax and Pantera |
| Ian McShane | person | Actor (Winston in John Wick series); provided custom voice call-outs for John Wick pinball |
| Craig Bobby | person | News correspondent/segment host for The Pinball Show; reports on industry updates and rumors |
| Chicago Pinball Expo | event | Fall convention (late October) where Metallica 2/Spike 3 rumored for reveal; Back to the Future launch party expected |
| IAAPA Expo | event | Late November convention where Jersey Jack Pinball planning new game release |
| Metallica 2 | game | Rumored Stern sequel; expected to debut Spike 3 hardware platform; Chicago Expo fall reveal anticipated |
| Back to the Future | game | Rumored Dutch Pinball game; launch party reveal expected during Chicago Pinball Expo |

### Topics

- **Primary:** John Wick announcement and game design, Stern Pinball production updates, Pro/Premium/LE tier differentiation and value, Playfield art, cabinet design, back glass aesthetics, Game mechanics and ramp layout analysis
- **Secondary:** Industry rumors: Metallica 2, Spike 3 hardware, Jersey Jack Pinball market performance and future releases, Chicago Gaming Company production delays

### Sentiment

**Positive** (0.72) — Hosts express enthusiasm for John Wick's mechanical design, art direction, and value proposition. Greg appreciates metal ramps and tight shot design; Zach praises the neon noir aesthetic and stained glass LE back glass. Minor critiques include 180 ramp fatigue, some playfield artwork placement concerns, and uncertainty about LE tier justification over Premium. Overall tone is favorable with constructive technical analysis rather than criticism.

### Signals

- **[sentiment_shift]** Emerging concern about LE tier value proposition; hosts express uncertainty whether LE's stained glass back glass justifies premium cost over Premium tier despite beautiful execution (confidence: high) — Zach: 'I just don't know if there's enough there for the LE to make me jump to the LE over the premium... some of the complaints that I have heard are, man, the premium LE looks awesome, but...'
- **[design_philosophy]** John Wick neon noir aesthetic divisive: Greg prefers grittier, darker tone aligned with Mandalorian style; Zach argues neon lighting necessary to represent New York/Tokyo nightlife cityscape (confidence: medium) — Greg: 'I'm just kind of against that neon-ish... I kind of wished... grittier darker uh feel' vs Zach: 'you gotta light up the nightlife... what better than the neon lights in New York City'
- **[design_philosophy]** John Wick emphasizes mechanical depth and 'world under glass' approach with multiple moving parts rather than singular bash toy; design reflects hybrid influence of Gomez and Borg school of designers (confidence: high) — Greg: 'mesh-up between gomez and elwynn... tight shots and unique stuff... that buck... the 180 ramp' and Zach: 'This is definitely an engineer's game because you don't have one big, large bash toy'
- **[licensing_signal]** John Wick features generic 'muscle car' rather than licensed Mustang due to Ford licensing constraints; design accommodates Plymouth Barracuda and Chevy Chevelle variants from film franchise (confidence: high) — Zach: 'They didn't want to get the rights to Mustang and Ford... I'm okay with it here because throughout the different franchise of John Wick, it's not always the Mustang'
- **[market_signal]** Jersey Jack Elton John Platinum Edition selling strongly; JJP sourcing additional parts to meet demand above initial production forecast (confidence: high) — Craig Bobby citing Jack Guarneri interview: 'the Platinum Edition of Elton John is selling so well that JJP has already had to go back to suppliers to buy more parts to meet their customers' increasing demand'
- **[personnel_signal]** Elliot Eisenman elevated to first lead designer role after career as mechanical engineer; represents internal talent promotion aligned with industry pattern of elevating engineers to design positions (confidence: high) — Zach and Greg discuss Eisenman's promotion: 'this is his first time as lead designer... Congratulations, Elliot Eisenman. It just goes back to what you and I have said for years... pay attention to the mechanical engineers'
- **[announcement]** John Wick officially announced as Stern's latest cornerstone game; Pro model already in production and shipping early next week (confidence: high) — Greg Bone confirms 'John Wick announced, and the Pro model is already on the line... shipping in bulk early next week'
- **[product_strategy]** Chicago Gaming Company's Pulp Fiction has experienced extreme delays; buyers waiting 1.5+ years with units shipping in minimal quantities; Cactus Canyon code kit expansion delayed to 'sometime later in 2024' (confidence: high) — Craig Bobby: 'Some buyers of Pulp Fiction have now been waiting over a year and a half for their machines, as CGC has only been spitting out finished units in dribs and drabs this year so far'
- **[product_strategy]** John Wick marketed in three tiers (Pro/Premium/LE) with no price increase; Premium adds features like car swing-out mechanics and ball lock; LE features stained glass mirrored back glass with raised gold leading and matte black trim (confidence: high) — Detailed tier discussion shows Pro has stationary car, Premium has swing-out articulated car and physical ball lock, LE has stained glass back glass with gold leading and matte trim
- **[product_concern]** John Wick Premium tier adds hard-edge lollipop rails and articulated muscle car swing-out mechanics that block shots and hold balls; Pro model has stationary car with reduced functionality (confidence: high) — Discussion of Premium car mechanics: 'can prevent you from shooting... can hold a ball... it can swing out' vs Pro 'coil kickback thing... moves the ball... does not swing'
- **[rumor_hype]** Dutch Pinball's Back to the Future game expected to be revealed at launch party during Chicago Pinball Expo convention (confidence: medium) — Craig Bobby: 'Nap Arcade is reporting that he is hearing talk that Dutch Pinball's next game, rumored to be Back to the Future, will be revealed at a launch party sometime during the Chicago Expo convention'
- **[rumor_hype]** Metallica 2 rumored as Stern's next release after John Wick; expected to debut Spike 3 hardware platform with reveal at Chicago Pinball Expo fall 2024 (confidence: medium) — Craig Bobby: 'hot rumors flying that Stern's next release could be a sequel to their Metallica machine, dubbed Metallica 2, which could be debuting Stern's new Spike 3 board set, rumored likely to be released around the Chicago Pinball Expo this fall'

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## Transcript

 Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised. The Pinball Network is online. Launching The Pinball Show. This week on The Pinball Show, it's all John Wick. And who better to discuss Stern Pinball's newest cornerstone release than Pinball's very own John Wick. that's greg bone we also chat stern pinball production updates and tps club members this week get exclusive content of greg discussing the different manufacturers and how they measure up with customer support build quality turnaround times the most common issues that have been occurring problematic titles and much more that's a good discussion but until then buckle up keep an eye on your dog and prepare yourself for the pinball show episode 152 because baba yaga coming to get your ass. Pinball is a game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle. It's time for the Pinball Show. It's pinball with personality. Ladies and gentlemen, what's going on? It's the Pinball Show, episode 152, with yours truly, Zach Minning. Now, no Dennis this week, no Dennis Creasel. He's at a work event, I believe, in the South, too. Din Din Does Dallas. No. You're supposed to be quiet. I'm supposed to be good. Special guest host this week. It's my best buddy. It's Greg Bone. Everybody knows Greg Bone. Straight down the middle. And I guess flipping out pinball. What's going on, Greg? Ah, you know, living the best life. Are you really living the best life? No, actually, I'm not. I just tell myself that. So it feels better. Is it because you haven't had a couple beers yet? Actually, I just cracked. two 16 ounce Miller Lights up here next to me. That a boy. I was going to say, how much of an alcoholic are you based on the temperature of those beers? Instead, I'll say, how frosty are those beers, Greg? They're not very frosty. There it is. Room temperature. They can't get cold fast enough, can they? No, that beer's hot. I'm good. I'm so happy to have you back on here. Have I talked to you on the Pinball show and it's been quite some time it's been a really long time you don't have me on the work dennis is more consistent so it's kind of kicked me out we had to jump on episode 152 here and who better to do it with uh than my right hand man craig bone so dirty but i'll take it sometimes you're a left-hand man are you right oh i'm all left switch it oh all left ah you start using the right too much it starts to bend it's fucking weird dude all left so it feels like a stranger no not anymore it's familiar oh we gotta get into it the world of pinball was blasted today by stern pinball as they announced john wick their brand new cornerstone game we will get into that here in a second but first we're gonna travel up north and see what our buddy craig bobby is up to Hello and welcome back to the Pinball Show's Top Stories. I'm Craig Bobby. Well, as the start of summer in the USA grows ever closer, nothing says summer like a good old-fashioned Hollywood blockbuster movie, and that's exactly what Stern Pinball is banking on with their latest release of their next quarterstone title in the Keanu Reeves blockbuster shoot-em-up action-adventure of John Wick. Say what? Yes, after months of rumors which turned out to be true as prior to their John Wick launch, Stern released two trailers showing plenty of Keanu Reeves action sequences from the movie against the backdrop of the film's New York nighttime cityscape, along with tons of audio and music assets from the film, including custom voice call-outs from one of the best voices in Hollywood in Ian McShane, who played Winston in the John Wick series. I'll let Zach and Dennis go over all the exciting details of this latest Stern release, which are always an event with the pro version of John Wick already on the Stern production line, which means this game should be showing up in Stern locations around the United States soon. Now, beyond the John Wick title, there are hot rumors flying that Stern's next release could be a sequel to their Metallica machine, dubbed Metallica 2, which could be debuting Stern's new Spike 3 board set, rumored likely to be released around the Chicago Pinball Expo this fall. Now, what are the details and specs of this new Spike 3 system, you say? Well, you know what I say. We shall have to wait and see. And speaking of new releases as we move over to Jersey Jack Pinball, according to an interview with JJP founder Jack Guarnieri in Replay Magazine this past week, who teased that Jersey Jack Pinball fans can expect a new game later this year from them likely to be released at the IAFA Expo in late November of 2024. That news comes as a bit of a disappointment to anyone attending this year's 40th anniversary of the Pinball Expo in Chicago in late October, as last year saw JJP debut their hot new title of Elton John at this event back in 2023. However, during the interview, Jack Guarnieri also said that the Platinum Edition of Elton John is selling so well that JJP has already had to go back to suppliers to buy more parts to meet their customers' increasing demand. Hold me closer, tiny crocodile rock figure. And since we're chatting about new machines or rumors of the next hot release, fear not fans attending the Chicago Pinball Expo this year as Nap Arcade is reporting that he is hearing talk that Dutch Pinball's next game, rumored to be Back to the Future, will be revealed at a launch party sometime during the Chicago Expo convention. What are you just saying? And speaking of Expo, is there even a chance that the Chicago Gaming Company will even be close to finishing the production of its latest game, Pulp Fiction, prior to the Chicago Expo this year? Some buyers of Pulp Fiction have now been waiting over a year and a half for their machines, as CGC has only been spitting out finished units in dribs and drabs this year so far. Not to mention their much-hyped but seriously delayed release of the expanded code kit for Cactus Canyon, hopefully coming sometime later in 2024 as well. Now on a positive note, the rumor mill is cranking hard on a long-standing promise of CGC to do another run of Medieval Madness, but that vault may need to take a backseat, as next up for CGC is almost certainly a remake of Bally's classic 1993 game, Twilight Zone. So just tons of stuff going on in the pinball world as summer approaches and always an exciting time when there's a new game released from Stern Pinball. For the Pinball Show, I'm Craig Bobby. Catch you on the flip side. Hey, thanks again, CB. Much appreciated. Now, before we jump into full-blown Baba Yaga, you see what I did there, Greg? first as we do on the pinball show we talk about stern pinball production updates now the last couple of weeks stern has been producing let's see what they've been shipping greg they've been shipping elvira premiums and jules premiums for the most part i think your favorite your favorite game to work on tech wise at elvira premium elvira it's like the bane of my existence in the tech world that's right it really is well to be fair in the stern tech world because i you know what uh give me elvira over most of the manufactured games i mean yeah still probably the easiest to to mess with yeah you're not wrong yeah and that's like it starts like you know i if you're not from the tech side you know going down to the node boards you know when they did that and everything years ago i can understand everybody's hesitation everything happened but from a tech standpoint like the node boards are fantastic like it's just a simple system to really start to understand and you know there's some things daisy-chained and everything together um but but stern is truly just so easy to to really work i think there's weird things that happen that you come across uh most of the problems like l virus stuff it comes to just mech issues that you just have to kind of see those in that house man yes and you just have to take apart so much to get to one thing to troubleshoot it and see um and you know every game is a little different you learn something you know kind of new about what's going on but you know most things come down to an opto or you know loose connector that needs to be receded as we're talking about this greg why don't we actually jump in for the patreon people and go through some of these manufacturers you being the uh the lead on our tech department warranty submissions and stuff like that flipping out pinball so jump on over to the pinball show club membership it's at patreon.com slash the pinball show if you want to hear more about greg bone his job within this industry the different manufacturers the the common issues with some of these games based on the manufacturer the title who's really good at building games building materials who's really poor but his experience around the industry and even maybe some arcade stuff on common problems and what to look out for Let's jump back into production updates here, Greg. So they've been building those. Can you believe this? John Wick, we talked about it. We'll talk about it in depth here. John Wick announced, and the Pro model is already on the line. They've already been building these things, and they're shipping. They're going to be shipping in bulk early next week. I know that, but they're probably going to ship some this week as well. And then they're going to ship the Pro for likely the next couple of weeks then roll into the John Wick LEs mid to late May here, and then June, the first run premiums. They're going to jump into that also in June. Reminder, Jaws Pro and Premium going back on the line in June, as well as that Black Knight Sword of Rage Pro. That's kind of interesting. Yeah, I like that. So let's jump into John Wick. We know that it was designed by newcomer, not so newcomer, new designer, Elliot Elliot Eismin. Elliot. Elliot. Elliot. I was thinking Michael Scott doing that. So Elliot Eisenman, we know, is the mechanical engineer for games from Stern Pinball, such as James Bond, Rush, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Ghostbusters, Star Wars. So Eisenman's been there quite some time. Younger guy already inducted into the Pinball Hall of Fame, which goes to show you a lot there. But this is his first time as lead designer. So congratulations, Elliot Eisenman. It just goes back to, Greg, what you and I have said for years, even on Straight Down the Middle, is we sit these designers on thrones and everything. But you and I have said, pay attention to the mechanical engineers. Oh, we've literally talked about that so much. Yeah, the Harrison Drakes of the world. This is what we've been preaching. And Elliot now is getting his turn, and we'll talk about it, I think, for the first showing. Phenomenal job, Elliot. Software by Tim Saxon. Tim's been around. He's worked on previous titles such as Lead Coder, too, as Rush, Led Zeppelin, Black Knight, Sword of Rage. He even did some work on Deadpool. Also, with code, there's always a team of coding people that work beside the Lead Coder. Oh, what is his name? Is it Joshua Henderson? Yeah, I thought it was Joshua Henderson that helped. Yeah, Joshua Joshua Henderson. Boom, Joshua Henderson. Yeah, on that. Nicely done. Major software contributor alongside Tim Sexton. And the mechanical engineer I would have thought was Elliot Elliot Eismin. But it is Robert Blakeman. Oh. Yeah. So he got his own engineer. So there. Well, look. La-di-da. Robert Blakeman known on games such as James Bond 60th, Jurassic Park Home, Stranger Things, Deadpool, Game of Thrones, and Kiss. Art by the wonderful Randy Martinez. Ooh. Lucas Films appointed artist. Remember, he worked on The Mandalorian for Stern Pinball as well as Star Wars Comic Edition. love randy's artwork music by charlie benanti now charlie is actually part of like anthrax and pantera yes i love pantera yeah so boom there you go you get some music from that i don't know if jerry worked on the music or not or the sounds but we do get custom call outs from ian mcshane we'll talk about that here uh in a minute but that's kind of your your the creators team here on Stern Pinball's John Wick. You'll be happy to know, listener, there has been no price increase on this latest release. There's a pro, premium, and LE models. They're going to run 1,000 units of LEs. And let's talk about the launch of this game. The launch is pretty typical for Stern Pinball. The only different feature this time around was they had a, it was almost like an influencer video that was simultaneously released. I won't poke you too much because I know how you feel about it. It was a little weird, a little odd. I don't know what the purpose of the piece was. It wasn't a big salesy kind of thing. It was more of a – No, the only thing that I can think of, honestly, without going too much into depth, I try to be a very positive human being these days. Okay. The only thing I can see is he just has a very different flair, a very different uh probably fan base uh that's not so pinball like browsing through his stuff it looks like maybe he just now kind of got into some pinball stuff um so the only thing i can maybe think of is that they were just looking at you know kind of a demographic outside of pinball to maybe hit and try to capture uh not so much your normal pinball buyer i to me it was almost like he was scheduled to do a uh a tour and they just so happen to be like well he's gonna end up saying this and then oh i don't know man kind of standoffish with that stuff i don't see that happening but i don't know i don't want to speak i don't want to get trouble i'm so used to it so at lunch we get all the we get all the um the pictures we get all the information we uh upcoming this week the podcast by the creators uh we're gonna have gameplay video at the end of this week, John Wick's going to be everywhere. So fear not. We'll jump through. We'll talk about the differences as we're going along between the Pro and the Premium LE. At first glance, you may not think there's a ton of differences between the Pro versus the Premium LE. You and I spoke very shortly before recording this podcast, Greg, and you said, man, the Pro is pretty packed. I don't know if I put in for the extra Premium LE features. but then i second guessed myself because i felt like i read a few things so when we're recording i'm gonna have to ask zach about some of these things because i'm not so certain that i'm right there's a lot of this whenever i first seen this game and was presented this game the thing that stuck out to me were things like the neon noir is what they're calling the theming of this which you and i disagree on i think is one of the most redeeming wonderful features of this game i think It elicits so much beauty because of that type of theming. And then the details. This is definitely an engineer's game because you don't have one big, large bash toy that you hit. You have this world under glass with a lot of moving parts and a lot of details on the different mechanisms throughout this game. So I really, really love that, and we'll jump into that when we talk about Toys and Max. but that's the one thing that stood out to me was like oh look at this mechanical world under glass that i just want to interact with what was your first thoughts when you first seen i'm i'm guessing you've seen probably the sizzle reel or some of the pictures yeah i don't you know i don't know it's kind of mixed it took me a minute you know it's not something like jaws that took me so much to to really like oh my god where's that going what's that doing per se but i was just i kind of fell in love with first of all you got metal ramps i always love metal ramps and i like the three ramps well technically yeah the three ramps you got a kick but they just felt good and it was almost like looking at his design tell me if i'm wrong i feel like it's like one of those mesh-ups between like gomez and like elwynn because you got those tight shots and you got some unique stuff like the drop target go back to that red uh the red fucking twirly room or whatever it is like that's a weird little spot back there with the that was gomez like wasn't it yeah it was it was just really odd you kind of got that that buck over there to the right that kicks up you know kind of like uh you know the bond car and stuff and again like the tight ramps and then for me for me i'm going to give him a combo a hybrid between george gomez and actually john borg really yeah because john borg remember and kiss john borg did that that little bouncy room thing and john borg did that that same 180 ramp oh yeah the i that's i'm feeling kind of borgie with some of this stuff i don i don know there probably some i think he got a heavy gomez influence yeah Yeah Regardless It seemed like that which is always a great thing Oh amazing Well yeah for you You love you some homie gomie. But it looks smooth. It looks like all the ramp. Everything looks like they're quick, smooth returns. And it looks like a game that you can really get flowing, especially with those three ramps. And style-wise, whenever I may have seen a leaked photo last night, but when I saw the murky leaked photo, So I'm like, that looks like the art styling and the plastic styling and stuff. I'm like, it looks like the shadow. But then I'm like, no, the inserts and stuff look like Johnny Mnemonic, another Keanu Reeves-based pinball game. Like Johnny Mnemonic with the colors. I agree. Like the triangles and the diamonds and everything. Like, I agree with you. I thought that it kind of had a nice little homage to Johnny Mnemonic. I don't know if they intended that or not. Again, another George Gomez. Yeah, I kind of felt that. So that was when I walked up the first time. If we're talking about the art in and of itself, for listeners, follow along. You can go to your favorite pinball site or go to Stern's site. You can watch all the videos and look at all the pictures as we're talking along. How do you feel about the Artwork Pro Premium LE? Is this a style you like? I mean, this is Randy Martinez, where you get that almost comic realism, but you get a lot of illustrated line use. See, I like the comic realism. the only thing and again it's just what you'd already mentioned that i'm just kind of against i'm kind of against that neon ish i know you're crazy i know i know and i'm not saying that doesn't necessarily fit this theme neon noir yeah i'm just not super wild about it like i kind of wish on two no no tron was more fitting this is i don't know like i i kind of i wanted a little bit grittier darker uh feel to it i know that there's some like neon there's a lot of blue backlighting some purple stuff that goes on especially on the posters the posters of john wick is is very much this that's true but i think that i was wanting something more like mandalore something you know because even though the mandalorian is what it is it's still rich but it's not like over the top saturation well i think you've got to light up the nightlife because john wick is dark it is a nightlife but you gotta light it up somehow and what better than the neon lights in New York City or Tokyo or wherever they may be. And that's the stuff that reminds me of Shadow, like the purples in the building and that noir look. But the Shadow was kind of a hokey, gimmicky movie. This was a little more serious, especially the first one. They got a little more stupid as they went on. He was fighting on a horse at some point. Oh, my God. The fact that he took like 786 bullets in that last one going up those stairs, I was like, this is comical. This looks like an SNL skit. Yes, it was like pro wrestling, man. Yes, it was. It's crazy. But the first one, the second one, like even the third one was okay. But the first and second were amazing. So I just, I don't know. And they do lean into it too because they've done what I've not seen them do on a Stern game. These fluorescent edge plastic protectors around the skyscape and the skyline. It really pulls out the neon that you were talking about. Oh, yeah. They went all in on it. They did go all in on that neon feel. and then on the le they're leaning into a lot of stained glass kind of stuff too which is which is a weird combination if you think about the le being stained glass church candles stained glass mirrored back glass with gold leading we'll talk about and then you got neon inside so a bit of a contradiction there in my opinion uh whereas the premium package on the cabinet in the back glass That's more continuation of that neon, very bold, saturated colors. And then the pro model is almost matrix-like where it's just blacks and blues and very fitting. If you're looking at, I don't know if you have a picture in front of you, Greg, of all three of the models, what's your favorite back glass and what's your favorite cabinet? In all honesty, like I think I might prefer the pro back glass. Oh, okay, with the pitbull. yeah i kind of i kind of like you get the baby beagle and premium i'm not terribly mad at the premium i really don't i know it's probably gorgeous in person with that mirror and like you said that gold place in my le i am not wild about that but i do like the cabinet of the le i like the overall tones of that le a lot more but man i don't know i kind of think i'm on that that that freaking pro for us pretty sharp it is it's not bad like i'm not mad at it but i like keanu's face a little big like on that premium i know more keanu's better i know i know like so i'm kind of mixed i like the composition of the pro back glass better than i do the composition on the premium yes but i am a sucker for stained glass and listener what they did on this but i I don't know if many people are talking about this, but some of the complaints that I have heard are, man, the premium LE looks awesome, but I just don't know if there's enough there for the LE to make me jump to the LE over the premium. This is a huge feature for me. If I'm buying an LE, I'm buying it for beauty. I'm buying it for just that extra ounce of detail, for the extra parts, for the extra bling in it. And nothing says more bling on LE than this back glass. Not only is mirrored. Everybody, remember that Mandalorian mirrored LE back glass? Maybe one of the greatest ever. It was gorgeous. So what Randy Martinez, he was, I think he was a lead on this idea of doing that stained glass in the back. But they're actually using gold leading in that stained glass back glass to the point that Seth Davis was saying, The gold leading, they're raised off the back. You can feel with your hand that gold leading. So you have a lot of that reflective gold in there too. And I think it's going to be curtains in person when we see that backlash because it's so beautiful. The artwork on it is so beautiful. He's in that freaking samurai ready pose. and then you've got that platinum silver looking John Wick logo lettering. I think that one's easily going to, it's going to dwarf not only the other train lights here, but probably most other back glasses at Stern's ever done. But when it comes to the cabinet, I'm actually going to go, the premium, they all look good. The premium is a bit too generic for me. Yeah, I agree. I do. I think I, I think I still overall What do you think on cabinet? Cabinet wise I still kind of like the Church motif and him with the nunchucks And stuff on that The side armor and everything There's too much thing They went a little all in And I know it's going to create a beautiful Back glass but I'm not wild about going all in With all the stained glass That was more John Wick 4 I guess Yeah sort of thing So it wasn't real wild about it Dude, he's got nunchucks. Come on, Greg. That's my favorite. I still kind of think I like the cab of the Pro over the Premium. I do like the cabinet Pro over the Premium. Yeah. I'm with you there. And like you said, I like the composition of the Pro, too. I'd maybe change those head decals. I don't really know if I like the windows and him fighting people in the windows. But it is what it is. Honestly, this is one of the most... It's pretty dynamic. Yeah, for all packages to wear that. It's like, you're just kind of picking at things. All of them look pretty good. I still love that they're doing the hard-edge lollipop rails for the premium. Nice job, Stern, for adding extra on the premium there. And then you get the Bobby Yega etched for the LE armor. You get the Bobby Yega symbol on the armor. And get this, gang. On the LE, that trim package is matte black. a really hot textured color in the automotive industry right now uh but a flat black like a matte oh baby almost like the 69 mach 1 oh sorry the 429 boss which it's not it's the mach 1 uh mustang not to be a nerd but uh almost that flat there it's almost like a flat black it's called a i think it's a gunmetal gray that he drives that that that boss mustang but uh it's almost a matte finish so i like i like that they added that type of finish on there uh and another feature we can talk about so that's artwork on the playfield itself it feels mando ish to me so that makes sense with randy martinez i just love the whole circle the guardians of the galaxy circle in the middle of the playfield and john wick there with that fucking nunchuck again man and then oversaturated neon colors just bouncing off his beautiful body sign me up all day long i could do without the dark knight heads above him um that's what it feels like to me the dark knight oh it looks just like dark knight yeah so i can do without that and then the it's like they're putting actors everywhere like down at the drain i'm fine with them down there but give me more wick give me him even bigger almost deadpool like right in the middle of the play so i would have taking that i don't think it's bad i kind of i kind of like how it's laid out that center the colors look good so uh yeah i could have done for a little more on the slings like the two dogs on each of the slings is it's a little bland but but maybe you know they simplify because that playfield's kind of busy so you take that you're kind of like okay whatever uh but you it is very dark night i know right like it really is the way you look at it let's talk about what everybody loves in pinball and that's like the layout and we can even talk about kind of the mechs and toys as we're talking about layout. You talked about it already. Three main ramps. You do got a right fuck both on the pro and the premium LE for that matter. It's a two flipper game so we're going to have very much a fan layout. Left ramp is Foo Fighters left ramp. Then you've got the little bounce around area reminiscent to something like Kiss or Transformers. Did the Transformers kind of do that? Yeah, but I don't know if it was in that scene. This one seems more fun because it's got that one single pop that bounces all of the different enemies. And it's where the exit is for the physical ball lock at the premium LE. So that would be really cool. Then you've got a middle ramp that goes up and crosses the play field. Or on the premium LE, I think that's the one that goes. It's a diverter. It can go through the backbox and then be held physically to go through the red circle club. To the right of that, we have a physical bash toy that is his muscle car. They didn't want to get the rights to Mustang and Ford, of course. So, well, and I'm okay with it here instead of Jurassic Parking It, the George Gomez Motor Company or whatever, Gomez Motor Company. I'm okay with it here because throughout the different franchise of John Wick, it's not always the Mustang. He drove a Plymouth Barracuda. He also did a Chevy Chevelle. So he also did a Charger. So muscle car is good. It's reminiscent of the Mustang. Because while in a sense it's still kind of an iconic car, it's not iconic like a fucking Jurassic Park Jeep. Some could argue. No, it is nowhere near as iconic as the Jurassic Park Jeep. Some argue that the Mustang, they call it a Boss 420, is one of the most iconic movie cars of all time. Oh, in general? For John Wick. Ah, shit. But it looks like it. Yeah, close enough. If we're talking about toys, that thing can swing out on the premium LE, and it does a lot of things, which I like a lot. It can prevent you from shooting. It can hold a ball. Did you know that, Greg? You loop it around. And then if it goes back on the pro, it sounds kind of cool too. I have to see it work. But on the pro, it almost has a coil kickback thing. So it does, we were told, it does move. The car does move on the pro. It's not like it stays. It does move, but it does not block a shot like it does on the premium LA. And it almost has, I don't know if it's full kickback, but I think it moves the ball. So it just doesn't have the articulation because I'm trying to look at, no, actually I'm looking at the premium. Like, so it just... It moves, but it does not swing. I think it punches back. Okay, okay. Or it might move... They acted like it moved slightly, but it's not going to block your shot or hold a ball. Okay. And then I believe there's the Continental, the iconic hotel in the franchise. You get a 3D physical representation of it. That's a bash captive ball type of thing there. to the right of that you have the orbit which is a more inner orbit that goes to the left outer orbit so it's it's a big orbit but it's not a full orbit nor is it a mini orbit but again the on the premium le the car can swing out and hold the ball there or block your shot there which is awesome then you've got the right i'll call it the right ramp that's the monsters john borg ramp and I am so sick and tired of 180 ramps in pinball. I know they're space savers, but I've said, and listeners, you know I've said this, whether it's done straight down the middle or the pinball show, there's one 180 ramp that I'm totally fine with because it is so smooth and feels so good, and that is the Munsters 180 ramp. I've said that ad nauseum, and that's this. This is okay with me. It looks good. I think it feels good. Then if you go down, you've got, was it a case where he keeps his weapons and stuff where he has to break through the concrete. You've got that on the Premium LE. It's another bash toy that you get to hit, and then it lifts up to expose a shot, which is like a Vuck there that goes to the upper wire form. On the Pro, it's just an exposed shot. Oh, so it doesn't move. It's just always open. Yep, always open. So that's another difference there. And then if you look, I don't know if the Pro has a drop target that leads into the red circle club, but Premium LE does. It's going to drop target there. Opto spinner on this game, left orbit. Thank you very much, Stern. And then if we continue talking about toys on the left side, almost by the bottom left flipper, so more than half the way down the field, there is the blood oath marker where he has his fingerprints in it. So on the Pro, it's like a plastic mold and stays like it is open or whatever. On the Premium LE, it actually can open up. It's sculpted, and then it's got his fingerprints and blood in there that are indicative of something you're doing in the code. But what's cool on the Premium LE, that sculpt, they actually received the prop used in the John Wick series. They got that to make a one-to-one casting replica of it for this game. It did like a digital scan of it. It looked good, too. And I think that I heard somebody say that that was going to be, ball safe it would open up like when you had ball safe oh okay so like you know like he's you're cashing in that marker okay very cool i'm trying to think uh also not that you know podcast visually here but when you plunge there are four different spots you can plunge to you can short plunge it back into that buck you can plunge it up and if you don't go all the way it can come down that inner orbit. You can plunge it a little bit further where it actually has a secret little path that goes to that red circle club, or you can full plunge it all the way around to the orbit. So there's another entrance to that club there, which is very cool. And then inlanes, pretty much traditional Italian bottom there. Two inlanes, two outlanes. There's a lot of other stuff, but I mean, the physical mold of the Continental looks really good. this game looks like it's going to be fast and flowy to me yes other toys i'm trying to think what other toys well like features wise on the le this is the first game listener that is not a music pin that is going to get expression lighting that's that's fantastic everybody loves expression lighting not that they can make them fast enough because i'm still waiting for some Foo Fighters expression lighting i have an order but uh but it comes standard on the le that's wonderful that We're finally getting that on a non-music game. And they're bringing back from Jaws the expression speaker lighting, which is interactive with the game and gives you a lot of information there. So this is the first game that has the combo of both of them, I believe. Yeah, because Jaws. Jaws just had the speaker. First on speaker, yeah. Expression speaker. And you guys will be happy to hear that unlike Foo Fighters, remember Foo Fighters, expression lighting was only going to be an accessory for the premium. You couldn't get it on the Pro. On John Wick, you can get the expression lighting for the Pro and the Premium, as well as the expression speaker lighting system for the Pro and Premium, too. So that's going to be cool. Ellie also gives you, like I said, the mirrored back glass, the anti-reflective glass, foil, full foil, cabinet decals. Really cool So you do get that back glass that you can buy We know that right Greg Yes You simply cannot buy mirrored back glass from Stern Pinball no matter what And what are the expression lighting system? I think it's like a $500 mod. And then the speakers, those are probably going to be like $200, $300. And then armor and stuff. You're getting close up there. I think expression lights are going to look pretty damn good on this game. Oh, yeah, especially with all the neon stuff lit up. Yeah. All those green plastic. Oh, it's really going to change it up quite a bit. Like that, that might be one of the things where like, if you're not really into them, it's, it could definitely be worth throwing them on there. Oh, and I did forget on the Ellie, this is very Elvira ish, but it's still kind of cool. You and I are, uh, collectors and other little things and we get our rocks off on stupid little stuff, I guess. but they're going to have on the Ellie, the franchise artifact where it's actual pieces of John wicks, iconic suits that were used in the film with production of these films. You get a piece, a swatch of that. And unlike, I don't know if L virus, it was kind of just separate in an envelope or something. This is actually mounted into the apron itself, like a commemorative type of thing. So I saw somebody knocking that, but I kind of like it. Everybody's always going to knock it. I know. I kind of like the cards on Batman. like when they had the cards on there and stuff like i it is kind of stupid but like i kind of like having that on there i'm the same way i'm the same way uh so that's that's going to be on there and whether i don't know if they said it anywhere or not but actually to where those suits came from which films it was actually john wick 2 and john wick 3 and then tim sexon even told us during the dealer seminar that to be even more specific on john wick 2 it was the suit he was wearing during the Roman continental scenes. And then on John Wick 3, it was the library fighting scenes. That's even better because it just doesn't seem so generic. It's like, oh, okay, who knows what it was. So far, so good for me with this game. If we're talking about Toys and Mags, we discussed that. Layout checks out for me. Art checks out. Code and assets are really kind of tough because I don't know. If I'm looking at the picture here, it's kind of hard to see, but I'm looking at the play field to see what in the world. It looks like it's mode-based stuff, plus there's specific enemies you have to defeat. Yeah, but we know a little bit, like what we were talking earlier about the enemies. That's a whole new thing. That is new. So they're touting this as the first time Stern's ever done this, maybe even in pinball, but there's AI in this game. Seth Davis was trying to explain. It's hard to explain. He said video games have been doing it for a long time, But anytime you're battling in video games, there's like an AI that helps determine, based on the player's movements, based on the player's play style, their abilities, that something has to make decisions. And AI does that. Here in this game, there is what they're calling dynamic AI, where the enemies will, the computer will make a decision based on your gameplay. So enemies can block certain shots. They can dynamically adjust to your actions, the player's actions, and even the lighting will change. So they were saying that it's going to be a new experience every time you play a game because that computer in real time is dynamically changing based on the shots you're making and what you're doing within the game. one finer detail to this point is you'll see three uh like it says enemy and then there's three inserts by each of the ramps or main shots here where those those will change based on how you're playing maybe there's one there one enemy there maybe there's three enemies there and then to go further if you were to hit uh that shot with with like one enemy or two let's say two enemies are lit it will correspond the video that will then come up will correspond not with just a set video, but with a video that shows John Wick defeating two people rather than one. So it's dynamic in its response to the visual assets, too, based on the storytelling of what you, the player, are actually performing in the game. That's pretty damn cool. I still don't know what it means, really, but it sounds cool. I know, because I'm curious. Once you started explaining it, and I'm sitting there listening to somebody instead of just discussing it i was like you kind of brought up a good idea what it may have been stupid as hell but when you were talking about like kind of like block shots how insane would it have been i don't want to spend too much time on a hypothetical because we got the game that's here but like literally if you had different diverters and stuff on ramps and everything else that would literally block shots like you know cool it would pop up like that you were blocked or not to the ground or something because maybe you're hitting the center ramp too much like and now it just rejects you out of it based on your shot patterns. They could load enemies up on that shot then. So it takes more to get through that if that's really what you want to keep pounding. So the computer is dynamically trying to figure out your play style and progressively making it more difficult as you're battling. Because what Seth Davis says, like in the movies, John Wick, it always kind of starts out easy for him. But then as he's gaining throughout these bosses and killing more people, it gets progressive like he takes he takes some hits uh and uh he gets some damage throughout so and then there's main bosses and stuff just like any of your favorite action films um and that's the black knight heads there yeah and and one of my favorite things uh i would assume that this has to do with code uh but we were talking about and they had shown on there to where that you get contracts you get push notifications yeah yeah good call yeah contracts about particular tasks for you to do or to perform. And I was telling you, I was like, we still have not scratched the surface of insider connected. We are still just kind of utilizing it more for these achievements and different things. But damn, man, this is where it needs to go because something like this that really ties into the film, like if I was out and I got that push notification, like contract comes in, 16 enemies, He's like, whatever you got to do or this objective. I would feel compelled as a nerd to like, I got to do this objective. And Tim Sexton was saying that Insider Connected is taken to another level on this Stern game. And like you were talking about, it's the first time they've utilized push notifications. Whenever you have a contract that comes in, you'll be notified. And during some of those things, that's how you get special achievements at times too. is if you're responding to these contracts notifications and you go whoop some ass that that is that's that's pretty cool oh it's absolutely stunning and you can't do that with every game this game calls for demon integration at the best there it really is because it's it's when you're at home it's when you're just living your life it's not when you're playing the game like you'll get that's what john wick was doing i mean he's sleeping he's laying down petting his dog and yeah a mission comes in man yep it makes you feel more compelled to play the game i think it's i think it's genius i i think that that's amazing sitting like eight beers in and you and chelsea are watching some shit show vanderpump bullshit and all of a sudden your phone goes and you look at it and you look at her and you say yeah i think i'd say i'm back and she's like i fucking hate you and you storm downstairs to log in i'm literally gonna go get a suit that I only wear when I get my notifications and I'm going to go put the suit on every time. Just go. She's going to be like, are you serious? Come on. You know what, though? You could ask her what he did. She goes, none of it would surprise me. Absolutely. None of it would surprise me. We'll see a Facebook video in a couple weeks. All right. And then I always want to know about wizard moments and wizard modes and moments and stuff. Tim Sexton did say the wizard modes will very much bring you on this game to huge, giant, climactic moments throughout the John Wick films. Because I love that. Because people were asking in our dealer seminar, is this like a story? Are you going through the story of John Wick 1 or 2 or 3 or 4? Number one, assets, video assets from all four. And we'll jump into assets here. But all four of the films and Tim Sexton said it's not it's not so much like an open world environment of John Wick, but it's not so linear. Yeah. So pitch and hold into his retirement arc either. They said that just wouldn't work for pinball. So a lot of the main characters and the bosses and stuff, those interactions and fights are very much represented in this game. The best of all of that. So that's that's fantastic. too you know what i kind of want i was thinking about this other day and this would have been a prime opportunity and hell maybe they did it but it's like one of those things like i i like i like kind of a mini wizard but i like it a little more achievable and something like this where you have deadpool and mech suit multiball and yes and all that but if you did something like that here's a pb herman son of a bitch what's his name oh uh what he looks like the the pb herman's uh pb herman's playhouse oh uh oh my god the green guy that's kind of like a mini wizard mode before you get that's one of the reasons why i've always explained why i like that game is because there's there's so many achievable moments and you just keep creating moments and you keep building i A lot of mini wizard moments. Yes. And to do something like this with bosses to maybe where that you just like a video game, because I still feel like that we're, we're going in that video game feel. We want a physical video game. Yes. That's what we want. Yeah. I'm not mad at that at all. But like, if you did literally to where that you achieve a few things and you fight a boss now, and that's kind of a small mini wizard, but it's not that hard to beat. And you're literally working your way up through different bosses until you, then they progressively get harder and then your main boss after you've achieved so many other things and beat three other mini bosses then you have the big battle because i mean that is sort of the way deadpool was uh but you don't have to do it necessarily with just a purely fighting game like deadpool was that 16 bit i think you could do it in something like this it would be pretty unique because you have just so much opportunity to create so many small moments because i yeah because dwight i mean again go to star wars like when you achieve you know lightsaber duel and you do some of those things like that's not wizard modes but they're they stand out and you felt like you did something you saw something new um that's always fun to get to yeah uh i'm hoping it is like just looking at the feature matrix here descriptions they they describe it as you take on jobs for seven different factions from the john wick universe the new york continental the marquee de cremon the Oh, nicely done, Zach. Good job with that. I was impressed. That felt fucking good. The High Table, the Osaka Continental, the Bowery, the Terrasaw family, and the Ruska Roman. Also, five unique adversary battles, Vigo, Cassian, Ares, Zero, and Kirill. And then you have Excommunicado Multiball as kind of the main multiball, Deconsecrated Multiball. You have four car chase multiballs. You have the Staircase Mini Wizard. You have a dual mini wizard. You have a special assignment wizard mode. And then they're calling the industry-first AI game mode system featuring illuminations of different enemy icons that react dynamically to the challenge of the player with new experiences. There's something else with Insider Connected. It's not like Save Your Progress, and it's not Venom-esque to that degree. But there are some things that you're building up a ranking system, he said, on this game that's kind of cool. I'm going to call it right now And I may have to eat crow on it But I kind of don't think so This game I think is going to be something That if this code The way the code sounds If the code lives up to the way it sounds And you've got good call outs You've got a good lighting package Whether you like John Wick or not Or you're just kind of like eh it's okay I think that this could End up being like kind of that next Godzilla because I think like the complex like if this code is that fun and because it seems complex but it doesn't seem overly complex sure it sounds fun because it sounds like you know not necessarily a tournament players game it literally sounds like that you're achieving and going and it's more about the experience and an adventure and I truly I mean And I think that if it pans out the way that code sounds, it could be a phenomenal kind of sleeper of a game that people just didn't think much about. And it could really take off and be something. We shall see. We shall see. I know that the things that we're seeing are checking the boxes. And the things that we are not seeing are things that Tim Sexton is kind of lead on. and we know that based on his rules in the past, nobody's crapped on Tim Sexton rules. People like that. Now, the criticism I have given for just my play style are when Tim Sexton has games, those particular games don't scream to me, so it's hard to get behind Led Zeppelin because it didn't. Band games don't do a whole lot for me, especially when it was like Led Zeppelin. Rush, people loved Rush. you and i don't even want to hear your manifesto about rush and how wonderful those rules are in the structure but it didn't the theme didn't speak to me so i didn't want to get into it and then black knight that's one that i can say i love the structure of that and that's when he was just starting out so the things we can't see are already kind of checking the boxes as well i'm really excited about that and then we have the video assets thank god we have video assets from all four films i think they said something like uh almost an hour of film content so that's that checks the box i love that ian mcshane is doing custom call outs phenomenal i said this online and people thought i was crazy they were like they better have custom call outs for me and mcshane and i i said why like why use i'd rather money go back into the game like custom calls don't do much for me i like whenever there's call outs from the film but there's a lot of people are like no it would be fantastic to have ian mcshane do it because he was the voice of that movie i thought it was lofty to get that though they got it but no it just doesn't i mean custom call out hey it's awesome but i don't care really oh man i don't know i still like all because there's some games that still the call outs just like kill i don't think godzilla would be what godzilla is without the call out oh that's a good point i really don't point it draws you in it's no different than the music hell we've talked about it like literally it's what ruins spider-man vault we harp on that all the time it's what kills that entire game is the call out that's so true though it's so bad it's so true no john pull your gun don't kill the dog no i'm still kind of prickly with John Wick though. He had that cute little beagle. God bless its soul. It got killed. Then he has to pick out the pit? Come on. It was definitely a very... He's like, my dead wife picked out that puppy. I want a real man's dog. I want a man's dog. Honestly, he's like, beagle ain't going to fuck up shit. I want a dog that's going to fight with me if it needs to. That pit bull seemed like a little sap though. I did. He was so sweet. He was probably sweeter than that beagle. That beagle would probably bite you before that pit bull would. What do you feel about some of the talking points right now are, where are the guns? And I have to be honest, I didn't notice it until somebody said it, and then I'm like, ah, okay. Yeah, there are no artwork guns. I shoot things from multiple perspectives, no pun intended. I come in and so I look at it from the standpoint of it is absolutely ridiculous that you don't have guns on there. Because the one thing that stood out about John Wick, like you had the car, you had the martial arts, and you had nothing but him firing a gun every six seconds in this film. Big grenade launchers. launchers just blew people away like the fastest trigger i've ever seen and just like that was what made these films and to not have that is kind of an odd thing but if i'm looking at it and if i had to guess this is what stern did if i'm looking at it from a family-friendly aspect putting it on route or anything else whether it's in the clips or not when you have guns all over the damn thing front and center it sends a message to certain people and certain parents and different things that might have those out that it could be a turnoff with that violence Now again it slightly odd that once you play the game you just fully immersed in him blowing the shit out of people But, I mean, I – It's just not there in the artwork. Yeah. To me, that's got to be just because it's stagnant. It's setting their photos out, everything else. it's a lot less prominent when you've removed it from your artwork do you think it was a Stern thing or an IP thing because Stern is they showcase guns all the time why would it be an IP thing it's on movie posters that whole thing is him with a gun it's him shooting people but if they're signing up for a product being made that is going to be consumed as a game for families maybe they said you know what more the martial arts than you i don't see i don't see the i don't see the the company itself doing that what was it lionsgate or anything i don't i don't see them doing i i see it more of a stern thing but i could i mean i could well a million percent be wrong you know the one thing i did here i think it might have been on loser kids they were talking about how heavy the violence was on uh this ip and before the game came out they said likely not a game that they're going to look at just because of how heavily violent and how many killing. There's like 400 and something deaths of John Wick. So they're like, that's pretty strong IP there with violence. So maybe it was. I don't know how to feel either way. The way that Keanu Reeves holds a gun though, it's going to be hard to get past that. I really like that. It's almost like seeing Tom Antonio Cruz run. oh yeah it's so smooth it's a thing man is a thing that's just so true to them so i agree jury's still out on that i don't think it's a big miss and obviously if you want a couple guns in there you want something somebody's gonna freaking 3d print you're gonna have a lot of mod makers gonna make some pretty cool shit that look probably pretty good yeah some handguns and stuff yeah yeah but i mean i do think it's a slight miss but sure i also understand being um a little sensitive to to that matter uh but then again why do you pick this ip that's right because it is just the most violent thing in the world uh so yeah i mean i'm still glad that stern's picking badass themes we forgot to talk about that like whenever the theme came out everybody's like is that one of your dream themes zach and i said absolutely not but what it is that so many other themes that manufacturers have been doing recently are just total misses theme wise for me like sure I love Elton John. That theme is zero to me. Well, not zero. Rush would be a theme that's zero to me. But there are so many themes that have come out, even to extent James Bond. Like this is at least five times better to me than James Bond for me personally. Not universal. It's just this is a general badass theme that I can get behind. I love Keanu Reeves. It hits a little. Well, this sounds ridiculous, but I think it kind of hits so many demographics with this. When people, because I mean, you know, ladies love John Wick. Oh, yeah. My wife is obsessed with Keanu Reeves. Yes. And so I think it hits. She prefers to speed Keanu Reeves over long hair. But needless to say, she was like, what are they coming out with? I was like, easy there, tiger. Exactly. So I think it kind of hits a female demographic a little bit. It is sexy. It is sexy. I think it hits the youth demographic quite a bit because, you know, it reminds me very much of him like with cyberpunk, like the styling of this. So I think it looks very video game ish for the youth. A lot of young kids are still very familiar with John Wick. It hits that 20s, 30s demographic very well. It obviously hits our demographic because we grew up with Keanu Reeves. We all love martial arts. It hits the car demographic. Yes. I think that it honestly, especially for routers, I think it's going to do well home-wise, especially if it's a great game, like I said. It could be kind of a Godzilla-type hit. But I think as a location pin… I think it's huge for location. I think it's going to be a really nice modern location. I think it's that thing where people are always arguing, you know, Taylor Swift pin or Eminem or something like… Whatever. For locations, I think it's good. yes i think that locations it's kind of that now i think that they should have done it two movies ago but at the same time i mean i understand that i mean to me it's a little over a billion dollar franchise yeah oh it's the ratings have got higher each subsequent release yes the box office has got i didn't realize it was this this is a huge anytime you hit a billion dollars that's a winning franchise yes yeah oh yeah it's insane i like that it covers all four films that's cool there's a lot i don't think it's a bad pick honestly i think it just takes i think because it wasn't on the forefront it took me a little bit to wrap my mind around it when i first started when i like i asked you and i was like you know what do we think this game's gonna be you're like well i mean you know kind of just hearing rumors of john wick and i'm like yeah that's what i heard too like it kind of took me out of you know i kind of came out of nowhere for me and i was just like eh, you'll not feel about it. And then it got closer to time, and I was thinking on it a little more, and I'm like, eh, I kind of like it. I'm not going to be mad. I'm just glad it's not a total miss theme, because we've had some for me personally, just total misses, and this is not. This is one that I will happily put in a collection and feel good about it, because I'm like, yeah, it's just badass. I like that. Yeah, and I guess it's something a little more modern. That's what's nice. It's just a little more modern. Speaking of locations, is it Safe to say that Rubbin' Butts and Sellersburg, Indiana are going to have themselves a John Wick. Oh, Rubbin' Butts is 100% having a good John Wick. Oh, shit, not only that, maybe one of the first in the world. Oh, one of the first. Thank you for flipping out pinball. Oh, shit, how about that? Hell yes. And I've got to give a shout-out, too. It's still early, so sales-wise, it's hard to say what sales are going to do on this game. I thought, if you just told me John Wick, I thought they might not be as strong. Thus far, I've been pleasantly surprised, but too early to say I have really no clue. But I do want to give some shout-outs to those individuals where I do know it is going on location. And as a reminder, if any of you run a route or a location and you'd like to show some love and support to Flip N Out Pinball, we would love to earn your business and get one of these early runs. It's not too late. Get them out to your location, one of the first in the entire world. And as always, free shipping. Come on. That's not to the terminal. That's free shipping to your door, people. I'll save you some money on terminal, too. But, yeah, I've got to give a shout-out. Rub and Butts in Sellersburg, Indiana. Boom, boom. And close by in Sellersburg there, I think Mile Wide Brewing is going to have themselves a John Wick. Hell, yeah. Yep. Mile Wide is their craft brewery over in Louisville. Oh, yep. Just about 20 minutes, 25 minutes from us. That's wonderful. Glow in the Park. Glow in the Park is up in Oshkosh, Wisconsin. They're going to have a John Wick. Go check it out. Miniature Golf and such. Hell, yes. One of my favorite places in the world. We've got to visit this place. It's the Arcade in Wichita. Hell, yes. Got it. They've got the coolest thing with all the vertical screens above each. It's gorgeous. I love all that. It is gorgeous. East Tennessee. East Tennessee Pinball Group. They've got John Wick coming their way. Hell, yes. Level 256 Classic Arcade Bar in Asheville, North Carolina. Yeah, one of the most beautiful places in the country. Level 256 is getting a John Wick. Go check that out there. Hell, yes. Game Galaxy, one of our favorite places. Game Galaxy in the Nashville area, Smyrna, I believe. They're actually, I think they may be going, they might be going pro, but they're going to go premium. Hell, yes. They're going to have one there. There's John Wick going to What's Brewing down in Texas. Definitely go check them out. And tell them Flip N Out Pinball said hello. Hell, yes. And again, it's early. You'll hear more of those location shout-outs on episode 153 of the Pinball Show. This thing is going to be everywhere. And hopefully you and I, Greg, will be able to do a first impressions once we get our hands on this thing. Maybe as early as next week. What do you think? Oh, I think it'd be great. I'm excited about them. I'm glad they're shipping them fast. I'll buy the beer. How about that? You ain't got to buy the beer. You're bringing me my game. You can buy the barbecue. I'll buy the barbecue. There you go. And we can't go any further without saying thank you to all of our Screaming Go Club members of the pinball show, the big dogs, big VIPs. Thank you, Rodney, also known as the Bobcat. You don't even listen to the show, Greg, so you don't know anything about this, but you do know Rodney. Oh, I do know Rodney. What do you think Rodney's weapon of choice would be? I would say a fly swatter. That was my grandma's weapon of choice. Hey, man, it hurts. That has to be a gun because I'm going to shoot that fucker. I'm going to shoot that fucker. My mom used to smack me with a clothes hanger or a Hot Wheels racetrack. A Hot Wheels racetrack? Oh, my God, man. That blue seal. Oh, my God. The orange one. It's got some recoil on it. I think your mom has hit me several times with stuff. She probably has. Them titties. Grilla hands. Hey, she's got a good grip. uh thank you to steve steve jablosky thank you so much jabs uh also known as the bumblebee i think his weapon of choice would simply be a keyboard oh right i see that i mean yeah that that checks what's the uh conductor uh like don't don't some i know they mainly use their hands but don't sometimes they use that little stick a wand oh yeah he just stabbed somebody i'm so sorry for all this we don't know what any of this is called That's actually very John Wick-ish. It is a pencil. Where's the pencil in that play field? Yes, it's just like a pencil. Oh, my gosh. Thank you again to Rob the Panther. I believe Rob would be a blade of some type. Let's give him... You know what? Rob could fuck some people up with a Swiss Army knife. We're going to give him that. Absolutely. Thanks again for the support, Frank. Frankie the Falcon. I don't know what Frank would do. Let's give Frank one Falcon Talon. That's exactly what I was thinking. Is that what you were thinking? I swear to God. Yeah, like that weird-ass shit that you rip around your... Yeah, like a little... You got a necklace. Yeah, a little Talon. Dave, we appreciate it, Shaker Motor. He's got the worst nickname. I don't... What would be the worst weapon? A zip tie. just gets one industrial length zip tie i don't know man you can do some damage i'm saying zip tie might be more dangerous than anything oh my god zip tie you know you know what it's like i've had nightmares about zip ties because you're done like you are done there's no you're not breaking you can't break through a zip tie it cuts into your skin your muscle it's just everything it's just so got me watching that show them and man i get some bad bad nightmares. Speaking of, I've got to talk to you off microphone about that. I'm into season two now and such. Ooh, okay. Good. Thank you again, Joe Fox. Joe. Joe Joe. The Fox. Joe looks like he would kill people with a hammer. I don't even know how to feel like that, but I agree with you. Yes. Just like a big crescent wrench or a hammer. Yes. Just a tool. A big ass tool. Thanks again to Charlie. Our thoughts going out to Charlie. You know what I'm talking about, Charlie. I think nunchucks. There's nothing cute or funny about it. Just I can see the dude having some nunchucks in his back pocket. Hmm. Yeah. And the dude. Thank you, dude, William. Laughable, man. I would have fucked you in the ass Saturday. I'll fuck you in the ass the next Wednesday instead. Woo! You got a day Wednesday, baby. We appreciate you. I love that Will's weapon of choice is not a weapon at all it is simply the stance of the little three finger claw that John Wick holds up in some of the that's him man dude he just got orientation of his finger claws we appreciate all the support here at the pinball show if you want to sign up remember you can go listen to the Patreon stuff such as Greg Bone going through all the different manufacturers and what's breaking, what's not breaking, who's good, who's not, and whatnot. That's at patreon.com slash the pinball show. You can sign up for $10 a month at the official club membership level to get all of that exclusive content as well as private discord. We have a lot of fun and you can go to the $25 a month Nordman level where you get a metallic decal. You get to choose a topic. You get to hang out monthly on our happy hour hangout. We're going to be doing that later on this month. That's a blast. And then that $100 a month super fan Screaming Goat Club members. We've been giving out paywall polos. I get to show you one, Greg. That's phenomenal. As well as secret behind-the-scene stuff between just Dennis and I in a private conversation with us, showing up on the show, et cetera, yada, yada. Buy, buy, buy! All right, Greg, where can people catch you? You can catch me. I guess they can't really. No, they can't. Watch straight down the middle. Hey, you can catch me at Greg at FlipAndOutPinball.com if you buy a game from FlipAndOutPinball.com and you need any warranty help. Yeah, and if you don't buy it, don't bother, Greg, if you ain't buying games from us. Shit. Respectfully. Piss off. It's true. I mean, come on. So, yeah, you can follow, like, and subscribe to Straight Down the Middle as well. We've got some upcoming videos. We're getting ready to record a bundle of them, including a top 10 list that I think people are going to get a kick out of, a couple of reviews, first impression, and more. Hey, I do have to leave you with this on that note, though. I'm a pretty passive person, and I love most everyone, but when you call me and you want help and you tell me that you did not buy this game from us, I truly do kind of want to tell you to fuck off. I know. It's like, what do you mean? Yes. That makes no sense. Well, I didn't buy this game from you guys, but. I get that they need help, but they're like, but my dealer's not answering the phone. Well, shouldn't I tell you something? Fucking return it and buy it from us. Yes. Yeah, that chaps my ass too. Gets me a little bit. Unless they butter me up, but then they normally know how to work me over and they're like, man, love your show. You're my favorite. If you want the industry-leading level of customer support, go to Flip N Out Pinball, and you get Zachy and Greg. And speaking of, follow, like, and subscribe to Instagram, to Facebook for Flip N Out Pinball. Remember, on Facebook, we put all of our used games. I sold a lot of used games this last week. Product showcase this week, of course, is John Wick. Order yours today. If you're listening to it, there's a good chance I may still have LEs or even first-run premiums coming next month for those premiums. This month is at least get one now or get your location pro. I think the follow-up pros are going to be August. And the second run of premium is going to be August as well. So quite a gap there. So get in now. And for the most part, we have a lot of games in stock, including the hottest games like Jaws, like Elton John, taking orders for Labyrinth, still taking orders for Pulp Fiction, any of the rumored games that you guys tickle your pickle, message us. We've got a running list. We can put you on those right now. Even ABBA. Greg just loves ABBA. Hey, people are still buying ABBA, man. I'm looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to some ABBA. So interesting. So interesting. Flipping out with friends, Joel is taking a break this week. He is on work leave for something. I don't know if it's an excuse or if it's real, but nonetheless, he will be out. and then the follow-up next week, next Wednesday, maybe, I don't know if I'll have John Wick yet or not. Stay tuned. The last, oh boy, that last stream he had Galactic Tank Force LE. My own personal game. And let's just say it was much different than most streams that Joel has done. GTF got the best of him. I'll just say that. Greg teaches people something. He stole John Wick's pinball machines and killed his dog. And always practice safe pinball. And because Greg's here, always remember to wash that dirty sanctum. You sound like the horse, John Wick's horse. See you guys. So sexy. What are we discussing first? premium le like just features like it's the only time you've ever asked we've recorded for seven years and you've never asked what order we're going in anything

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 2d21261d-2a89-4cb8-b334-f8ad830c993e*