# Triple Drain Pinball Podcast Ep 29: Elwin's 60th Anniversary Is FINALLY Here (First Video Podcast!)

**Source:** The Pinball Network  
**Type:** video  
**Published:** 2023-01-08  
**Duration:** 114m 41s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5h4EWB1A58

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## Analysis

Triple Drain Podcast released their first video episode, announcing their transition to video content available on Patreon while keeping audio free. The hosts discussed Stern's 2025 design team announcements (Dwight Sullivan/Brian Eddy and Jack Danger/Tanya Klyce) revealed by George Gomez, their TWIPPY nomination, and extensive analysis of the newly revealed James Bond 60th Edition pinball machine, including cabinet art, playfield layout, and mechanical design.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] George Gomez revealed two design teams for 2025 Stern games: Dwight Sullivan/Brian Eddy and Jack Danger/Tanya Klyce, with Zombie Yeti doing art for both — _Joel stated George Gomez shared this in an interview, noting this level of advance disclosure is unusual_
- [HIGH] The James Bond 60th Edition is a single-level game, not a street-level game — _Joel clarified this after Dennis Chris educated him on the distinction_
- [HIGH] Bond 60th has four spinners plus a hat (spinning disk), allowing a combo where all five spinning elements activate simultaneously — _Travis described watching gameplay footage showing this combo_
- [HIGH] Theme licensing for Bond is extremely restrictive, limiting artistic direction on cabinet art and visual assets — _Joel observed this constraint across all Bond versions and noted it parallels previous Bond releases_
- [HIGH] The cabinet art uses a grid layout of movie posters rather than dynamic collage design like GNR Limited Edition — _Don's Panic Flip comparison mentioned during Joel's Flipping Out stream_

### Notable Quotes

> "The power of theme there you go"
> — **Joel**, ~17:00
> _Encapsulates the core observation that theme/IP is the primary driver of pre-order commitment, not designer pedigree_

> "I'm not going to ask my mom to vote for me... I told my mom vote for me I'm kicking her out"
> — **Travis**, ~12:00
> _Humorous admission about TWIPPY voting, establishes Travis lives with his mother despite earlier ambiguity_

> "We know everything about the game except for the theme everything and yet I'm not seeing that like I'm not what does that tell you"
> — **Tom**, ~15:00
> _Direct contrast to Spooky's Scooby-Doo reaction, highlights theme as primary commitment driver versus designer/team reputation_

> "I bought this like I even told Monica I was like Hey... she was like why the hell did you buy me a sex toy"
> — **Tom**, ~20:00
> _Humorous anecdote about WOW Stick 69-in-1 screwdriver purchase, demonstrates community product discovery through streaming_

> "the design of the posters reminded him a lot of the GNR Limited Edition version of the game which had all the different band posters but if you remember it was like a brick wall or something and then the band posters they were Dynamic"
> — **Joel (relaying Don's Panic Flip)**, ~26:00
> _Specific comparison of Bond 60th's flat grid poster design versus superior artistic approaches in past releases_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| George Gomez | person | Chief Technical Officer at Stern, revealed 2025 design team compositions in interview with Joel |
| Joel Engelberth | person | Host of Triple Drain Podcast, conducted interview with George Gomez, produces Just Another Pinball content |
| Travis Murray | person | Co-host of Triple Drain Podcast, competitive pinball player, streams from home studio with StormTrooper backdrop |
| Tom Fox | person | Co-host of Triple Drain Podcast, streams on YouTube as Fox Cities Pinball, nominated for TWIPPY |
| Dwight Sullivan | person | Pinball designer/engineer, leading one of two 2025 Stern design teams with Brian Eddy |
| Brian Eddy | person | Pinball designer, co-leads 2025 Stern team with Dwight Sullivan; known for unique mechanical designs (Mando, Stranger Things, Shadow) |
| Jack Danger | person | Pinball designer/programmer, leads second 2025 Stern team with Tanya Klyce; previously created custom home machines |
| Tanya Klyce | person | Pinball designer/programmer, co-leads 2025 Stern team with Jack Danger; designed Deadpool (described as 'fantastic game') |
| Zombie Yeti | person | Artist/art director, creating artwork for both 2025 Stern Cornerstone games |
| Dennis Chris | person | Community member who educated Joel on street-level vs. single-level game terminology |
| Don's Panic Flip | person | Content creator who appeared on Joel's Flipping Out stream chat, made GNR comparison to Bond 60th cabinet art |
| Triple Drain Podcast | organization | Pinball podcast hosted by Joel, Travis, and Tom; now releasing video versions via Patreon; nominated for TWIPPY award |
| Stern Pinball | company | Major pinball manufacturer; announced 2025 Cornerstone releases with design team composition; releasing James Bond 60th Edition |
| Spooky Pinball | company | Pinball manufacturer; Scooby-Doo announcement generated immediate pre-order demand despite limited reveal info |
| James Bond 60th Edition | game | Newly revealed Stern pinball machine; single-level layout with four spinners + hat, blue aesthetic, restrictive theme licensing |
| Mandalorian (Mando) | game | Stern pinball game by Brian Eddy and Dwight Sullivan; features moving playfield, owned by Joel |
| Deadpool | game | Stern pinball game by Tanya Klyce; praised as 'fantastic game' with strong design |
| Scooby-Doo | game | Spooky Pinball game; teaser generated immediate pre-order demand despite Spooky carrying baggage from prior releases |
| TWIPPY Awards | event | People's Choice Awards ceremony for pinball community; Triple Drain nominated for podcast, Tom Fox and Flipping Out also nominated |
| Flipping Out with Friends | content | Joel's streaming show on YouTube, moved from Twitch; hosted chatting stream about Bond 60th reveal |
| The Pinball Network | organization | Distributes Triple Drain Podcast audio on their platform; hosting first video episode on YouTube |
| WOW Stick | product | 69-in-1 automatic screwdriver; discovered by Tom via Marco's Specialties stream, discovered by Moto; used for pinball machine maintenance |
| Monica | person | Tom's wife; mistook WOW Stick for adult product; now owns the Comfy blanket |
| Elwin | person | Legendary pinball designer with cult following; no 2025 Stern releases announced, will focus on James Bond 60th |

### Topics

- **Primary:** 2025 Stern Design Team Announcements, James Bond 60th Edition Reveal & Analysis, Triple Drain Video Podcast Launch & Patreon Model
- **Secondary:** TWIPPY Award Nominations, Theme/IP Licensing Power in Pre-Order Commitment, Cabinet Art & Playfield Design Aesthetics, Designer Pedigree vs. Theme as Buying Signal
- **Mentioned:** Stern's Information Disclosure Strategy

### Sentiment

**Mixed** (0.58) — Hosts express excitement about 2025 design teams and Bond 60th mechanical features (spinners, figure-eight, inline drops) but disappointment with cabinet art design, poster grid layout, and restrictive theme licensing. Video launch and TWIPPY nomination bring positive enthusiasm. Tone oscillates between genuine analysis and comedic tangents.

### Signals

- **[announcement]** George Gomez officially revealed two 2025 Stern Cornerstone design teams: Dwight Sullivan/Brian Eddy and Jack Danger/Tanya Klyce, with Zombie Yeti as artist for both (confidence: high) — Joel: 'he revealed all that... we know the game designer we know the software programmer and we know the artist for both these games'
- **[product_launch]** James Bond 60th Edition officially revealed with full playfield layout, cabinet art, and mechanical specs (confidence: high) — Joel: 'Bond the Elwyn version the L1 version has finally been announced... was finally revealed'
- **[content_signal]** Triple Drain Podcast transitioning to video format with Patreon exclusivity model after free first episode (confidence: high) — Tom: 'after this video we're going to make the video aspect of this a patreon exclusive' at $3-$9/month tiers
- **[licensing_signal]** James Bond theme licensing severely restricts artistic direction on cabinet and visual assets across all Bond editions (confidence: high) — Joel: 'licensor is extremely picky and hard to work with... seems like they are extremely picky... maybe this was literally their only options'
- **[market_signal]** Theme/IP announcement drives pre-order commitment more effectively than designer team composition or pedigree (confidence: high) — Tom: 'here is the exact opposite we know everything about the game except for the theme everything and yet I'm not seeing that [commitment]'; contrasts with Spooky Scooby-Doo immediate pre-orders
- **[sentiment_shift]** Community response to 2025 design team reveals is muted; no strong positive or negative reactions despite Stern breaking typical information embargo (confidence: medium) — Joel: 'I oddly enough really didn't hear from anybody positive or negative either way... I think it would be even a bigger deal if they did that with themes'
- **[gameplay_signal]** Bond 60th features four spinners plus hat (spinning disk), inline drops, figure-eight combo, and dual orbits with multi-spinner loop potential (confidence: high) — Travis: 'all four Spinners and the hat were spinning... you there's a combo that you can do to Loop that around the outer orbit it hits the middle spinner and then hit the figure eight combo'
- **[design_philosophy]** Bond 60th uses single-level layout with focus on spinning elements and orbital patterns rather than multi-level complexity (confidence: high) — Joel: 'is there um I know we kind of geeked out about it... this is not a street level game this is a single level game'
- **[product_concern]** Cabinet art criticized for flat grid poster layout lacking dynamic collage aesthetic; compares unfavorably to GNR LE (confidence: high) — Don's Panic Flip comparison: GNR had 'Dynamic like it looked like they were hanging... it actually looked like there was effort put forth' vs. Bond's 'just a grid'
- **[community_signal]** Triple Drain Podcast nominated for TWIPPY award as #1 seed in podcast category; hosts emphasize not campaigning but grateful for community support (confidence: high) — Tom: 'we're obviously not campaigning for it... it blows my mind that there are people out there that enjoy this'
- **[business_signal]** Triple Drain implementing Patreon-exclusive video content model while maintaining free audio distribution (confidence: high) — Tom: '$3 $6 or $9 a month' for video access; 'audio part of this is always going to be available to anybody'
- **[product_strategy]** Stern breaks typical embargo by revealing 2025 design teams ahead of time; George Gomez states this is unusual practice (confidence: high) — Joel: 'that's that is not normal for anything like that to be shared ahead of time because as we know there are people that are very loyal to either designers'

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## Transcript

network is online launching triple drain pinball podcast all right Tom are you ready see Senator Joel C okay and Travis are you ready are we allowed to talk we can we talk now yes I I needed to go to silence talking and you were like no I need you to stop my breath okay okay don't talk yeah yeah yeah yeah all right and go we we're three guys [Music] foreign Travis has a question no I legit have a question because we didn't discuss this before did you play like an intro hearing that yeah yeah like we do have an intro right I mean the intro is the normal podcast intro it'll be the tpn like is it like animate it with like all kinds of like explosions and [ __ ] like that you know I'm gonna figure it out I'm gonna we'll see so the reason Travis is asking this silly question is because we're doing video we are doing video we actually have a camera on all of us yeah Tom is touching it Travis oh you're not supposed to do that Travis moved out of his closet for this um he did not he put up one picture in the background I see not hung on the wall just sitting on a table I think that's a light and he has a light Rod um but besides that that's a floor lamp he calls it a light Rod but it's like a whole it's like a whole tube that's lit up it's a tube light yes that's what all the cool people do now for their backgrounds Joel what do you hear that when we're not filming yeah you know what yeah this is a cool background Tom you have a cool background Travis you've got a wall two walls what are you talking about oh yeah in a corner yeah so okay so anybody that's listening to this on the in the normal format yes this is the triple drain podcast we are you know the three of us Joel Travis's Tom nothing nothing out of normal um but we're trying to pinball and we call ourselves triple drain there you go we talk is really what exactly I thought you were quoting the songs you're always going with it oh God I got I got it so we are still doing the podcast we're still going to do the audio form of the podcast your Prime listening to this on the pinball network but something we are doing different is we decided we've always had our cameras on but we're actually going to release video of this podcast and so the thought is we have started the patreon there's patreon the triple drain uh triple underscore drain patreon we have some patreon members we're incredibly grateful for their support that support has paid for um some swag we've uh basically bought our own merch for ourselves because you know that's apparently what cool people do when they have a patreon and then it's it's going to pay for this artwork that you see down there the um the Jackson gee artwork that we used for that swag but um the thought here is we were gonna this first video is out there for everybody everybody can have it enjoy it watch it as many times as they want it'll be on the pinball network uh YouTube channel so go to YouTube type pimple Network you'll find this video um but our thought is after this video we're going to make the video aspect of this a patreon exclusive so if you're a patreon member doesn't matter what tier you are when we release the normal podcast episode we will also release the link for the patreon members so if you're one of those people that would prefer to take this in they want the visual side of this podcast they want to see Tom's beautiful face they want to see Travis's corner of his tan link walls you can do that you can do that for a small small fee of either three dollars six dollars or nine dollars a month that's all you got to do or you can join my only fans and see the other wall as well yeah you don't want to see that you don't want to see that wall you definitely don't want a black light on in that wallet so I don't know if you want to see a face to this then awesome feel free to join the patreon and enjoy the video otherwise enjoy the podcast that's what we're here for the audio part of this is always going to be available to anybody um so yeah so there's your disclaimer and we're gonna see how this uh see how this shakes loose so yeah catching up with you guys it's been a little while we've gotten through Christmas we've gotten through the new year I know we tried to get a podcast in before the end of the year trying to wrap everything up um and one thing that I did after our podcast is I actually had a really cool opportunity to interview George Gomez um he's the chief whatever he goes talking about himself yeah they're like let's just talk about Joel's podcast yes why not what is it Chief technical officer it's not you interviewed him you tell us he's the man okay George Gomez he's the man and it was an awesome interview he he said a lot of stuff but but what I wanted to discuss with you guys is through that interview one of the things that he shared was two cornerstones next year one of them the design team is Dwight and Dwight Sullivan and Brian Eddy and then the other design team is Jack danger and Tanyo Klyce and as far as I know that's that is not normal for anything like that to be shared ahead of time because as we know there are people that are very loyal to either designers of the physical machine or design like coders they really did you send them booze or something apparently I just asked the right questions I don't know but it was uh he he revealed all that and then the other thing that he also revealed is zombie Yeti is doing the art package for both of them so we know the game designer we know the software programmer and we know the artist for both these games the only thing he left out is the theme um so we really I mean we have no idea what those themes are going to be but with the two of you guys and as many games as you have owned and as much as you guys have as much experience as you have in pinball does that mean anything to you like are you excited about one or the other or like I don't know is there a hesitation of like well if Dwight and Brian go first I'm going to skip that and I'll wait for Jack Jack you know like I don't know does that forecast uh it just right now yeah we're gonna talk about that today this week yeah but I I know thoughts on that thoughts on that ah I mean it's cool to know what's coming up obviously we don't know theme or anything but uh yeah it's kind of cool to know who's going to be designing and working on the games well that's really neat you still have Mando right it's right here Joel well I can't it's just a little out of frame okay but so Mando I mean that's a Brian and Dwight game I mean what I are do you like that combo is that is that combo enjoyable enough that you sign you up for another one I mean yeah potentially okay and it just uh depends depends on the theme and see what happens all right Travis we're not making any promises so what you're saying is the team will not cause you to commit to buying something no that's what you're saying necessarily no see that's fair I'm just going to use all Joel's catchphrases thank you this podcast you're welcome wait are we supposed to drink if if somebody says I think so I forgot how it works so okay all right I mean there I know plenty of people that are just they're just team Elwyn so every Owen game has been him and Rick Nagel how could you not be team Owen I I think that's a valid statement but people are like okay I don't care what the game is if if that combo is happening I'm in and I feel like there was a time where there were like Steve Ritchie fans they're like I'm in for every Steve Ritchie games they just love his games so do you feel I mean like Jack is a big question mark we have no idea what a jack danger game looks like Antonio he built a home pin yeah but still I mean it's like give him free range two node boards do whatever you want three models like we we have no idea what Jack Danger's gonna make until within the stern bomb of course true Antonio clice only has one one game which is Deadpool that's pretty good game though it's a fantastic game it's a great game but that's I I don't know I mean I just I I don't know I don't know if people heard that information and they're like well looks like I'm safe for two only 23 like I'm not buying a game or there's people that are immediately like oh I'm in I'm already in because of this this team honestly oddly enough I really didn't hear from anybody positive or negative either way with knowing you know it's kind of like one of those things I think it's just a lot of people assumed what the teams could possibly be just based off the past based off whose release games recently everybody knew that Borg has already come out with a game with Rush everybody knew that Elwyn was on bond 60th so I guess it was just generally assumed that it was possible he was not going to be in the 2023 lineup so I mean people were kind of putting the dots together here and connecting it so I mean it's just I don't know I think it would be a bigger deal I mean it is kind of a big deal that they are announcing that ahead of time I think it would be even a bigger deal if they did that with themes and we've talked about that before about announcing ahead of time what they have almost like a a Stern day and hey here's our release date schedule and here's what's coming because it's not like anybody else could do anything about that or react to that anyway so I would always be curious about that because I I don't know I don't think it would necessarily stop people from buying the game that they want to buy because there's a lot of people that will buy a pro right and they're wanting to just buy it because they're just going to wait on the premium or there's plenty of people that will buy a game and just they know that they're going to sell it they're just buying it thinking okay I'm gonna hold on to it for three to six months move on and go to the next one there's thousands of people out there that do exactly that well I I think it's an interesting point because you're saying we we know literally everything about the theme but you're not seeing people commit you're not you're not seeing people like oh I'm in I'm in like Tanya like I love Tanya I'm in but what is there to commit to though I mean outside of like doing a pre-order and nobody knows what their allocations are of those games I mean how do you commit you know what I mean if both of you knew that the March Cornerstone release was going to be elwin I'm assuming both of you would already be setting aside money in your bank account yeah you said you said Elwyn it's like you know that's he creates all-time bangers that's not fair you know what I mean you can't yeah you can't come you can't compare like the person at the top of the mountain and then say Okay since you'll get his like surely you have to make those decisions with everybody else because the thing is Elwyn is proven like team Elwyn is proven we don't know what team Eddie and Dwight will bring we don't know what team we know Eddie and Dwight okay one one game like Mando like that's not it's just one game that's not like four or five that's my point okay you know what I mean so if we if we judge it off Mando then what do we do you know what I mean because Brian Eddy he's had different types of designs in the past the white hasn't had the same type of rule set so I mean I don't know we might get something totally different it's hard to tell yeah I it's just we we've had a lot of discussion about this of like why doesn't Stern give us info ahead of time like why don't they announce stuff ahead of time and I think the fear has always been that they don't want a future title to be hurting their current title that's for sale and I just thought this was kind of an interesting situation where we we in my opinion we've heard a lot of solid information about what's coming out with these new games but yet I'm not seeing that reaction I'm not seeing people like I don't think it's solid enough that's a problem but I mean you you know who's doing it but you don't have a picture of what's going on you don't have a theme you don't have a price you know there's there's a lot of a lot of things you bring up a good point though Tom that literally means that there's plenty of people that will make buying decisions strictly off a rumor also true I mean that that's where the industry's at if people don't tell you ahead of time and they don't know that everybody has to make their decision based off a rumor and all three of us know we've talked about that I mean Tom I know you've probably done that I know for a fact I've done that before right in terms of deciding not to get a game at a certain time because this other game might come out or in terms of like purposely trying to buy a game hurrying up because I think another game's not going to come out for a while I mean we've all played that game to some degree so I I don't know how much it would affect like for instance if I knew that say Elwyn wasn't going to be until September right just throwing that out there that's obviously not confirmed not going to happen but if I did know that then in my head I I have two choices either I'm saving money for that or I know I want to just jump on a pro instead of a premium or this next release because then I know I want to turn around and sell it before the next game I mean that helps with that type of decision making there's plenty of people out there that want to buy the next game regardless who it is yeah yeah well I just I think it like it amazes me and I know we've already talked about this but Scooby-Doo Scooby-Doo it as soon as it was announced like spooky already had essentially kind of some drama and some baggage that they've been carrying through for the last year plus with issues with layout of Halloween or lack of code or I mean there are people that feel burned by spooky pinball and so I think we all we're we're just like what's spooky gonna do on this next release are they going to sell out are they going to do this are they going to do that then all they did was tease Scooby-Doo that's all they did was tease and you see on pin side and it's just like where do I buy where do I buy I'm in I'm in dream team in boom boom boom it's like all these people are ready to commit they haven't seen anything they don't know anything about the game nothing and people are ready to put down a down payment but yes here is the exact opposite we know everything about the game except for the theme everything and yet I'm not seeing that like I'm not what does that tell you the power of theme there you go yeah it's pretty crazy um but I will say I mean I I think Brian um Brian Eddy I mean he's made some amazing games I think he takes some Chances with his designs um and kind of some of the uniqueness of his mechs and whatnot um you obviously look at Mando on the premium like that moving Playfield sure Pirates had the moving ship it's not the first but it's just like that is a unique match stranger things was an incredibly unique design Shadow like give me more of that that's what I loved everything about Shadow so to me it's like I I'm always I'm always intrigued to see what Brian Eddy's going to do mechanically and then Dwight Dwight knows how to put on a moment put on a Dwight show he's there's gonna be fun experiences I will say in that game I I can I don't doubt that so I'm excited for that and then with Jack like I'm very much excited to see what Jack's gonna do I have no idea what he's gonna do um and I don't I don't know I don't know if that means I've set the bar low because I have no expectations or if I I don't know I don't know what that means but I'm I'm very excited to see what's coming from Jack and then Tanya the one thing I have experienced of Tanya I freaking love I love Deadpool so I'm excited for this year even though there's no Elwyn I'm still excited for this year in what's to come um so what do you mean there is a no one well yes um there is an Owen so if if you want we can I mean there's there's other companies obviously um there's a lot of other podcasts I've already done their 2023 predictions called the phone we gotta talk about something else we gotta talk about our twippy nomination oh okay all right yes let's Dive Right into that so first off everybody that's listening to this podcast or watching if you're watching the video um if you nominated us for the twippy like thank you that's thank you so much for that um twippy's it's it's a very cool award ceremony it's very much a People's Choice Award um and I know I think we had mentioned it but you know we're obviously not campaigning for it we were snubbed last year Joel we had we had like I changed my mind we are the number one ranked podcast right now as the nominees right oh because it's at the top of the list yeah that means the number one that's how that works this is ours to lose now Joel that's exactly the way it works what are you talking about so um I last year I think we had all of maybe six episodes out so we were very much new um but it is very clear I mean just through you know the emails we've gotten and the Facebook messages and then the patreon supporters like it it blows my mind that there are people out there that enjoy this and and want to support us so I know we weren't campaigning for twippies um I I want to make sure like if we get votes I want to make sure we earn those votes we we get votes from listeners that enjoy this content I'm not going to ask my mom to vote for me you know I did I told my mom vote for me I'm kicking her out what are you talking about right now oh your roommate yeah all right I walked right into that one yeah so just to clarify she lives with you not you live with your mom right no my mom provided me with this this tube light that you were talking about there's one wall she got me this mic and this camera so yeah that's why I get to do this you know you're one picture what's the picture of I just I'm sorry for the audio people but is it a ship what a ship what are you talking about as a ship I just oh it's a Storm Trooper that's a stormtrooper Trooper he's on a ship though okay yeah very it's like it's got gray and white tones why are we talking about this right now we're supposed to be talking about because believe it or not that is the most entertaining thing that you have in your in your frame of of your family okay hey look at this we're gonna go around here or something so I have this new device right that we should be sponsored by you guys are gonna crack up so this is called a wow stick I don't either what is that okay I accept that it looks like something else it's a screwdriver yeah it's called a wow stick right but here's what's hilarious it literally says 69 in one wow I know this looks like one of those Hitachi ones but it's not I swear to God look look it's awesome what are you searching for that to be a recommended product okay you guys are gonna you guys are gonna lose it when I tell you who I found this product out from yes I was watching Marco's Specialties and then Moto was on there okay she was talking about this well stick because somebody was used to doing the pinball machines I was like holy crap I gotta get that and I didn't put it together though what it looked like or that it had the number 69 on it Joel until I got it and I was like wow I bought this like I even told Monica I was like Hey and that's my wife for those you know scoring at home I was like hey we got this new product coming in and I told her it's called a wow stick and so when she saw it like I had to tell her I'm like because she was like why the hell did you buy me a sex toy that's not for you that's for me I did say that because I wasn't thinking that she was being serious serious so let me get this straight so I don't know like where does that do exactly it's a script it's a screwdriver like it automatically screws in stuff wow wow so you it's good it's worth like yeah it's worth it so if the makers of the wow stick are listening hey you know good on you you guys are doing great stick and a comfy that's and you're a happy boy hey you know what I told Tom earlier I'm literally stealing all your stuff so I'm Win Schilling the way it works all right nice talk very good yeah uh notice I'm wearing it yeah it's not for people listening to the podcast no um my wife is still just sniffed right into the mic dude my apologies the uh the comfy's basically become my wife's at this point but uh just just to reiterate first uh you told us roughly a year ago that there was a point where you had bought Lube um for your pinball machines it was it was super lube for your pinball machines but you told Monica hey I got she's like oh we got a package and you're like oh I bought some lube and she got excited and then you had to clarify it was for a pinball machine yeah so fast forward to recently she pulls that out and you say no am I on the bottom of this uh yeah so the layout because Travis in his closet before he like mounted his camera way to the left and we basically were looking at his shoulder blade so I just assumed Travis was going to be looking left and then he changed everything I disagree with the production value needed to go up to be having two walls in a tube light I didn't know that was coming okay so for the twippy people for the people that nominated this yeah for the people that nominated this type of content thank you thank you thank you what are you doing with your life is what I want to know yeah but uh in all seriousness no it is fantastic um twippy voting is live right now so if you nominated us obviously feel free to vote um if you didn't nominate us that's totally fine still go for it vote um if vote for whatever you want obviously there's voting for um a bunch of game categories so feel free to to pump whatever game you really are passionate about and then uh basically all the Social Media stuff between podcasts and um streams and all that fun stuff so Tom Fox Cities pinball made stream yes yeah and we appreciate every vote Yes see the Promise well said Tom well said if you do video you still have to mouth it I know I shouldn't yeah what just happened and the answer is Elgato no signal it is you everybody this is the life of podcasting with Travis Murray um and you wait and there he's manual focus there he is funny I don't see any problems with this the funniest thing and again everybody thank you for for nominating us yeah but uh the funniest thing is I forgot what I was gonna say yeah it's hilarious people nominated for this content okay this high quality Production videos go out we forget our jokes are gonna drop us from the ballot now after we release this episode hey we made top ten probably we made top ten hey we're number one seed Joel forget that yes all right so yes for everybody thank you so much um flipping out pinball which is what I stream on got was nominated for streaming so thank you for anybody that nominated us for that Tom Fox Cities pinball was nominated thank you for all the people that nominated him for that Travis is here so thank you Travis for being here with my wow stick all right and you're excited to ride God yeah well um so Joel We Gotta speed this up I need to hit my only fans by 10 o'clock tonight so yeah so um our notes were really short it was basically twippy and talking about what's coming out with Stern but really the meat and the potatoes meat and potatoes of tonight is all about Bond 60th Edition so Bond the Elwyn version the L1 version has officially been announced we've all known it's coming they've been talking about it since October but nobody's seen it nobody had any idea what it was it was finally revealed and man there's a whole lot we can talk about here so what do you want to talk about first you want to talk about what the game actually is what it looks like all that or do you want to talk about marketing because I Know Travis is he is Jonesing he is ready to talk about everything marketing and price and everything that's happened with this reveal so whatever you want to talk about Joel you're the leader of us three idiots so go for it all right well we'll start with uh we'll start with the design so overall design initial thoughts we'll start with outside of the game what do you think of the looks of the game not looking at the layout just the looks of the game initial impressions uh Tom let's go for it where's the powder coat where's the there is powder coating it's black powder coating but it's not sparkly I think there was somebody online that they're like I'm out because it's not sparkly so it's I I it's Sleek I'll give them that I I really don't care for the movie posters all over the place yeah I thought the the back glass looks pretty cool um a lot of blue I like the blue yeah yeah that looks good um yeah I mean it's a pinball machine um I did a it's a good review it doesn't look yellow and white like Dr no like the doctor note yeah I um I did a chatting stream last night on The Flipping Out stream flipping out with friends flipping on with friends is there a new thing uh by the way it's on YouTube it's on YouTube no longer am I streaming on Twitch only on YouTube but um I did a chatting stream like that and George uh with Don't Panic flip actually brought up a good point which he said the the design of the the posters reminded him a lot a lot of the GNR Limited Edition version of the game which had all the different band posters but if you remember it was like a brick wall or something and then the band posters they were Dynamic like it looked like they were hanging and they weren't just on a grid like it looked I mean it was busy like a collage but it actually looked like there was effort put forth in the overall artistic layout of that of this of the cabinet art while this is very much just like it's just a collage it's just a grid and I know I mean we've already talked about this a good bit it is very clear this licensor is extremely picky and hard to work with so I I don't want to blame anybody at Stern for some of these artistic directions because we've seen it in the other three models of the bonds machines and then we've also seen it on the back glass or on the back glass we've seen it in the LCD screen when it comes to the visual assets that that this licenser is giving them it seems like they are extremely picky um so maybe this was literally their only options um how about the side art on the uh on the head uh you mean just the titles the listed out titles of every yeah I mean it kind of looks like our pre-production notes really what you think about it it kind of does actually yeah bring up a good point uh I don't know I mean I'm not I would say I mean there are there are art packages that have been on get like Halloween is a beautiful looking game like Ultraman beautiful looking game if you're talking about the art package zombie Eddie almost everything he makes there are people that clearly buy the games and are just totally fine with it sitting in a corner because of how good they look unfortunately I don't think Bond 60th Edition falls into this category you get a custom shooter Rod Jewel okay okay yeah Union Jack yeah Union Jack yeah okay well that's the outside well I'm just bringing up a point no you're right you're right uh so artwork I would say the artwork on the Playfield I actually like I I I know it's Photoshop it has all the bonds um there's no Bond girls on the Playfield which is kind of surprising but uh all the juice nothing there's uh disappointed there I mean isn't there a female scuba diver at the bottom I mean I want to get technical you're really I mean just look at the body I don't want to like assume gender but I'm seeing what looks like a female so I mean you know oh there's there's one if if you're in doubt I don't think it's quite doing what you want it to do in for to represent a Bond girl like that's that's fair yeah so I I would say but I like the blue I actually like the artistic side I like the the graphics on the Playfield I do I like it I like the way that looks I think that looks a whole lot better than the cabinet art um but yeah what are your thoughts on the layout like is there um I know we kind of geeked out about it yes yesterday on the on the chatting stream but I mean you guys are tournament Players you guys have played a lot of street level games do you feel not Street I feel I take that back Dennis Chris educated on me this is not a street level game this is a single level game what's the difference basically street level there was like a few Godly games that they're made off with off the shelf Parts they were made to be cheap they were made to be cost efficient if it was Godly good thing it's not a street level game night yes so it's just single the way some people are reacting to this game so I mean so it is a single level game so for the two of you I this to me were you seeing like what elements stick out to you or do they do do you see elements in this game that you that represent other games what do you think I mean I I love inline drops so I like that um I think the left orbits I figure anything yeah the figure eight thing's really cool um plus it it's got the two spinners involved with it which is really really cool yeah um I like that you know four spinner game yeah it's uh five of you count the spending disk but oh the Hat yeah yeah so there's if you watch the video the like um showing off the game there is a there was a shot that actually showed whoever was playing I don't know if it was Owen whoever it was but they there was a shot where all four Spinners and the hat were spinning so you there's a combo that you can do to Loop that around the outer orbit it hits the middle spinner and then hit the figure eight combo and then also hit the hat and all the like all the spinning things are spinning all at once which sounds incredible my the first thing I thought of though when I saw that is like how are the score reels going to keep up because like if a spinner gives you a minimum one point that means that score reel has to spin as fast as the Spinners are spinning like and so we're talking there are mechanical score reels in the backbox that's a that's side note there was a render that leaked and I remember when we looked at that leaked render months ago we all saw the LCD and we're like that looks strange we we just didn't it looked like it was just a graphic well that's it that was the real thing and I and I would say at least in the videos even it still kind of just looks like a graphic like it's not blatantly obvious that they're mechanical reels in that backbox but I'm very curious I mean maybe when you see it in person it's very obvious but some of the some of the videos I've seen like I think it's cool that there's mechanical reels in the backbox but it's just it's not wowing me like I was hoping it would but anyway so layout wise I don't know other uh Travis what do you what are you seeing layout wise that's getting you excited no I think it's all pretty cool I really like the figure eight uh just being able to do all four Spinners at the same time that's never been done yeah before I I don't recall any game that's ever had this many Spinners on it especially for a single level game so that type of shot that looks pretty sweet and I think what I like about the figure eight especially is that you could go around either side you can go either way which is from what it looks like and then the inline drops I love inline drops I wish more business or more companies more pinball machines would be released with inline drops uh I actually really like the idea of the captive ball in the back too that's a good callback to uh to certain other games like Mystic and games like that in which you know you you need to hit a captive ball and it actually means something in the game so seeing that's pretty cool and then of course you know drop targets everybody loves drop Targets in general but I mean what I'm most curious about and I think I might have talked to you guys about this before too is I'm really really interested to see how this type of layout because it's it's like a classic alley type layout right so yeah and you have the stern flippers on there and they're obviously yeah they're very powerful and even in the trailer it showed a few air balls coming off the inline up so I'm very curious to see how that works how that goes with the game Flow I'm sure having Snappy flippers with those spinners with opto spinners at that is going to be a lot of fun as well so I don't know I mean I'm not crazy about the disc to be honest with you in in Avengers it makes sense to me because it's it's definitely with you know on point with Dr Strange in here like I get why the disc is there I guess with what's the name odd job yeah so I get that I I don't know for me it's just kind of in a weird spot where it's at just right in the middle of the play field so I'm curious about how that'll be but I've never really been a fan of that type of Mech to begin with so I I don't know I mean obviously it's they gotta have something in the middle of the Playfield of some type so I don't I don't know maybe it'll make sense when it's there once I see it maybe it'll make sense because I guess it says something about what you Advanced your Gadget I guess because there's an insert right there so I'm curious to see how that applies to the rules I think the way it works is you have to hit down the bond targets which are the four drops on the left and in one of the videos it almost looks like those are sweepable like in one of the videos it showed it showed at least eating three yeah once you know B then at ricocheted off a stand up then back down yeah so if if I think it's you complete Bond and then probably rip this rip the disc and then that counts towards a gadget but it looks like there's there's you do that so many times and there's a multiball there there's a multiball of collecting bonds so there's kind of actually a little saucer in the back where the where the figure eight happens so I don't know what you have to do to light that or maybe you just hit it and once you hit that enough but it's like collecting all the bonds you there's a multiball there the drop targets there's something unique going on there because it talks about locking a ball so it almost looks like you could drop them down and then shoot the ball back there and maybe it holds it because if you lock two there's a there's some multiball involved in that and the action button if you read the instructions the action box says something about you can hit the action button and it drops the drop targets and would start uh multi or something so it's like you can almost store a ball back there and then when you need it you hit the action button and it drops it and gives you the ball like I don't know like just unique stuff like that that I think this game really I initially I wasn't super excited about it and and that's just because I thought it was kind of a an unobtainium kind of thing I was like why would I get excited about a game I don't think I'll ever play like I'm never going to see it on location I'm never like I just didn't want to get excited about something I didn't think I'd ever be able to play but yet now the more that I'm looking at I'm like this game looks super fun to shoot yeah I mean plus two judging by you know what the inserts are saying and everything I feel like that this is a game that's a step above what Beatles is and I'm saying this as a former former Beatles owner and yeah I'm just judging that because obviously they have the villains on there it says like Spinners pops Loops discs so you have to assume that they're attached to some type of task in the game that you got to perform but then on top of that I love the idea of having the four Spinners and I love the idea of the end lines and I love the idea that there's multiball in here and there's more than just one yeah exactly so to me it's going to give it's it's going to give you a lot more I guess what's the word for it a lot more play she had and and plus two it being a single level game that means all times are going to be short it's not going to be near as long as your normal modern games that have ramps or anything like that so I'll be interested to see how that really applies with the multiball if that means they're going to be very close to the start button or if they're going to be a lot more difficult to obtain it looks like with the uh the bonds that you collect there I assume that's kind of works kind of like the Super Jackpot does with beetles to where you have to do the mode or the task with it and then maybe you hit that at the very end of it for like some type of Super Jackpot collector something like that and I know somewhere in there I think it's at the very back side of the whole entire Playfield it says something like collect all bonds to start Bond multiple yeah so yeah I don't know maybe that's like some type of wizard mode or mini wizard mode that's built into there because I mean you have to you have to do a lot to get to that point so that's a that's the one thing reading the rule card that I saw in there you're you're realizing there's a lot more depth here than than I expected and to go back to your your fear of the snappy flippers like I have TNA and TNA has Snappy flippers and it and it is it's a fast game it feels like a modern game compared to when I step up to like at a time I had TNA at the same time I had eight ball Deluxe and like Eight Ball deluxe the pause just seems so slow and and with no power you know so I think it'll feel new I think it'll feel fast I think it's gonna be a brutal game that's what Dennis Crystal was saying on the chatting stream last night that he's like you guys are talking about the flow shots you guys are talking about the center shot to the right orbit you're talking about the eight ball like the the figure eight shot those are all the flow shots but everything else on this Playfield is brutal you know you have that spinner in the middle the disc you have three drop targets targets dead center the MI6 like you hit those those are gonna be in danger you know there's a lot that you need to shoot at that are on the sides like this is a this is going to be a like fast and Dangerous Game um so I the more I talked about it the more I looked at it the more excited about the game I got um what are your thoughts on the the LCD screen in the in the game in the middle of the play field Tom is making a uh a not an unhappy face and Travis looks I mean Tom what do you think it's it's hard to judge it because I don't feel like they've really said much about it I mean the only thing I gathered from looking at the videos was it might show some rules or something or objectives but I mean they could show scenes from different Bond films and things like that I don't know how inventive they're gonna get with that LCD so it'll be interesting to see I hope there's Direction like I hope there's if you start a mode like it's a street level game how much direction do you need well it's Joel yeah all the blinky light is not enough Direction I need so I would love it I mean I like the location of it because it's in your eye your eyesight so it's I mean if it could tell me what to do or explain what's going on or display something to make that mode different I mean to me when are you gonna have time to see that though like while you're trapped up or because it's going to be I mean if it's playing fast you know what I mean like yes yeah it's a lot it's going to be easier to look at that screen than it will to look up like look up normally where an LCD is going to be how's that easier all you got to do is just move your head up you don't have to look up nearly as far that's what you don't have to look up as far you can see this save your neck save your neck you can yeah I don't know I mean I I like it personally I that's one thing like you do well so so the P3 P3 stand over here see I told you he was going to bring it up we knew this Tom we know P3 has all that information down near on that like you don't have to look up at all now you're comparing apples to oranges right now I'm sure she's just very excited about this comparison right now just follow me on this short little journey I'm just I'm just saying the P3 does a good job of explaining you know what to do it's all down there and even like haggis did the screen with celt alien did the screen I don't I I don't like I to me having that information that visual information lower down I like it now there's a mod it's like uh pin HD or something where there's a there's a guy that they're basically duplicating the screen in a standard Stern game game and then putting a little screen down in the apron and that's the same idea of if you're looking at flippers it's easier to look three inches lower than lift your head all the way up and look at the screen that's what she said okay Travis Travis Joel I got a secret to tell you okay you ready for this I know this is going to blow your mind right I'm ready to be wowed the vast majority of pinball players do not look at the screens for information they just don't think about the whole discussion the whole discussion we had about rush it has all the information right there it tells you what multiball is ready it tells you I don't even look at the flippers yeah it tells you all that information and people are still like I don't know what to do I don't know what to do it's like I mean that's just what happens for whatever reason just we don't look at the screens as often as we should now you know what I want I don't understand the game that has Bowen Karen's coming out of the speakers right that's why he developed it he needed a good point that like yeah it's like a pen caddy in our ears exactly that's what I need he'd be like why the f are you hitting that shot I'm like I don't know oh I have no idea um Travis you've been on my stream before and that's pretty much what you say the whole time like oh yeah [ __ ] rolls downhill Joel that's how it works so is that collect bonus shot that goes back into the the oh the M the sugar the shooter Lane oh yeah that's cool I like I like that it's so simple but it's it's just so cool to to do that um Star Trek it's the M shot yeah so what what does that mean what's the M shot where's the ABC shot no m is a character from Bond it's like I think it's the the leader or the person in charge M and then Q just one letter Q is the person that does uh all of his gadgets um uh okay yeah okay that makes sense it was a her in the in the Daniel Craig I don't think it was always a her but M maybe it was I don't know all the bond they're rolling their eyes so hard right now there's another female presence right there in the form of a letter right there on the right side of the Playfield yeah there you go but bond is spelled out what is surprising is there's three rollovers at the top and each one says 007 why it doesn't say zero zero seven for the three roller I don't know and then ABC that's one I don't know I don't know why they chose ABC instead of some other three letter acronym but because it's because it's like a classic game there we go that's where it used to be yeah ABC plus there's double 07s everywhere on all the classic games that's another reason why they have that Joel oh okay yeah it's I I would say just the more I looked at this the more excited I I got about the layout and the more I started to appreciate how much you can actually put into a single level game um Dennis Christo was bringing that up like ramps actually take up a lot of room people just assume a ramp is hovering over the Playfield but no you have to have a ramp entrance and you have to it takes a little while for that ramp to then Elevate up and become a ramp so unless you're just doing like Captain Marvel or yeah Captain Marvel ramps or some of these quick um 180 ramps like the ramp on Led Zeppelin over on the right like do you have it takes room and that's room that you're missing other things while you take this game like there is so much stuff on this people are saying oh it's a single level like this should be cheap this should be cheap there are so many mechs in this game there are and sure they're not custom besides the odd job hat but the number of drop targets the number of uh saucers that have a coil to pop it out the inline drops have two coils one to pop them back up and one to drop them down like there's actually a lot in this game you just don't see it like like you normally do so um I don't know I the one of the questions I had last night was because George would Don't Panic flip he was he was all like he's like I'm in love with this game I just can't justify it for twenty thousand dollars if this game would have been I don't know if there was a premium version of it and it was the nine thousand or ten thousand dollars which this was a twelve thousand dollar game I would have bought it you would have bought it Travis would you have pulled the trigger if it was let's say ten or twelve thousand dollars I mean if Monica says yeah then yeah I mean technically it could be a twelve thousand dollar game if somebody wants to buy it I mean it could like we talked about you could buy it for a dollar if you want to or for free or let's actually talk about that I'd buy that for a dollar for a dollar yeah so there's there is a lot of misinformation out there right oh here we go here we go there we go I'm gonna let Travis really run with this but so what I will say this is in layman's terms uh what it sounds like for every other Stern Pro it's Pro premium Le every single one that's come out there's typically like three numbers that are told to Distributors there's basically the absolute lowest that you can sell this game don't advertise it but the absolute lowest you could ever sell this game without getting in trouble then there's something else and then there's the advertised price what do you go ahead Travis is that what you're talking about sure there's three numbers right the UAP right no I'm UAP isn't that like a UFO or something like that I don't I don't know so no so it's like any other industry every industry has you know it goes like wholesale price it goes umrp It goes map it goes yeah it goes MSRP I mean they have all that and then sometimes there's a price ceiling you can go to also so it just depends like what industry you're in but with this particular thing there's a reason why it says call for price you know that's just that's dictated it's not like we all got together and all decided hey we don't want to show a price you bastards that's that's direct from Stern and that's just the reality of it and that was planned all all along and I mean I've read stuff that like people like different companies are colluding together I've heard that from multiple people I've heard that we're just all like just trying to get too greedy with the price I mean I've heard just all kinds of stuff and I'm not like talking about any one person because if you're listening to this and you're like well [ __ ] I've said that like well guess what about 20 of you 30 of you said that anyway so I'm not talking about any one person but it's just I mean it just goes into what this product is you know we've we've talked about it a lot in terms of what this product is and what this product isn't so I mean how else do we want to elaborate on that do you guys turn the pop bumpers wired together no they're individuals they are individual pop bumpers but so that just that that alone like what I what it seems like so Distributors Distributors have been put in a tough spot because it like I I don't know if Stern looks at this and like well I'm gonna let him sell it for whatever they want like I think Stern kind of looks at it like I'm I'm throwing him a bone and that that happened before with the Beatles gold what was it gold Platinum by gold Platinum yeah so Diamond they could sell diamond for whatever they want and it was just like yeah feel free and I think the thought there Stern is like feel free to capitalize on it you know like whatever the market value is go for it now the truth is Distributors are already allowed to do that even on a Stern Pro or even on a Stern premium there's plenty of Distributors out there that sell the games for like they all sell for the same price some include free shipping some don't some do this some don't but they're all roughly the same price and then there's other Distributors that say no and they hold on to the games and they wait and so those are the people that hey yeah it's sold out everywhere else well you can buy it from me but it's gonna cost more and that's that's fine like that's how business works you know it's almost like the free market yeah concept isn't it it's it just comes down to what do you want I mean that's why in my mind that's why even used games over covid were going for higher than than available price because that's what it was it's fine you can buy it new at this price but you're gonna wait a year and a half or if you want it now then you can buy it it's going to be more well and that's that's the thing I've always told people too that you know if they talk about games that are above MSRP that are new unboxed and they're like okay you know why is this happening it's like well why are you selling your used game for more than MSRP that you have and I'm not talking like any recent like why not sell your Adams Family that you have for the MSRP that you paid for new in box 20 years ago you know what I mean nobody thinks of it on that level so you know it's not meaning like well because you do this we can do that it's just hey this is the way that the industry is this is the way supply and demand works and it's not just in particular to what pinball is it's like that across the board on on all Industries and the fact is is that if a lot of us if everybody sold MSRP across the board you better believe the backlog would even be greater like the fact the fact is is that there is still a backlog even with the market dictating what they want to buy I mean that's that's the reality of it and there's a reason for that and it's just because n ball is very popular and I've you know we've talked about this before the buyer base of pinball is much larger than what people realize for whatever reason people think that inside and Facebook is like the end of it yeah and I'm telling you right now it's not just comprised of people that type on a keyboard that get on Facebook or that want to get on a forum you know there's nothing wrong with that I'm just pointing out that that's not that's not the full base like the full base isn't the people that listen to this podcast or watch YouTube videos or watch Twitch streams it's it's just not yeah you know I mean let's take for instance like um Jack danger right he works for stern long time streamer multiple time twippy winner all this and that he probably averages less than 200 viewers like concurrent viewers watching you know there's absolutely nothing wrong with that what I'm pointing out is is this is somebody who is the face of stern now do we really think that there's only 150 to 250 people buying pinball machines from Stern at any given time like it's just so much larger than what people realize and people just don't they don't think of it that way I mean it's the same same way like think of any other hobbies that you guys might be involved in whether it's video games whether it's running or working out it's like okay how often are you going on message boards about that and spending several hours a day or several hours out of your week thinking about it or doing that you know hobbies are just a lot larger than what people realize yeah and I I totally understand what supply chain issues I mean almost everything I mean you look at the car industry there there are so many people like I remember when the Bronco came out uh there it is again Elgato no signal it's been another 30 minutes I need to get on the Elgato Forum oh my God yeah yeah okay you need to go on pin side and figure this out yeah I need 10 people to tell me how to fix this because I am in trouble look how professional Jill and I are we look great we look great every time consistent every time anyway so like when the Bronco came out there was such a demand for the Bronco that it became like a bidding war almost there were there were dealers that were like okay I have one what do you want and it just boom boom boom like people were paying way above MSRP for it because it was there and they knew they could have it and I'm not like who are you mad at Ford for that like sure build more cards or cars like build them faster I would love for stern to build games faster but I don't know it is what it is I I don't as a I'm glad I'm in the hobby because as as the price of these new inbox games go up the value of my games are also going up where it does suck though are for people wanting to get into pinball that entry into pinball is getting harder and harder because they're getting more and more expensive and that I agree that's that does suck but it sounds like that though but if that's the case I don't think that's the case yeah because why why is Stern increasing their capacity why are they already at Max Capacity you know because people talk about this barrier right they do and yes the price is high but very much we all understand we are in a first world hobby like we all get that you know and so we all have the freedom to choose what we want to do with our finances and if a game is too much money guess what that's why there's games from the 70s 80s 90s early 2000s that are still available I mean that's why I got a bunch of EMS there's no way that I pay two or three thousand dollars for them some of them I paid 100 through 500 and it's just I mean the hobby is what it is and it's only relative to when you get into it I mean I imagine I I still remember when I got into the hobby several years ago made it past those five years thank God but I still remember even then when I first started looking at it people were all complaining about the prices they were they were doing it then P I remember seeing somebody say I cannot believe a Stern Pro is 4 800 used or something like that yeah you know what I mean and that was then that was the mindset then you bring that to today there would probably be 30 people lined up to try to get that instantly so it's just all relative to what the time is it's all relative to what people want I mean everything is super expensive yeah anything that's Electronics is super expensive cars PCS video games I mean electricity every day yeah that's just how it is so to to bring it back to the bond 60th Edition I mean Distributors have already been Distributors have already had this Freedom essentially forever like they've always had the ability that they can sell games how they want and I understand different distributors they look they handle their business differently some focus more on like relationships they want to make sure that their buyer-based uh really feels you know like family like hey I'm here for you what do you need and just this consistent friendship but you know like to be honest Zach and Zach and Nicole are flipping out every game every new unboxing game I've ever bought I bought I bought from them and I genuinely enjoy working with them like I really appreciate working with them but that's not that's not exactly what everybody does um while there's other ones that it's just like I need something and people are going to call around and find find wherever it's available they don't care they want it now they're going to pay whatever it is now um I don't know who's doing that better or worse but to bring it back to the 60th Edition this is a it's a weird spot that Stern puts him in saying you can sell the game whatever whatever you want it for they also there's no limit for how low you can sell this game and that's kind of crazy so you're not allowed the Distributors are not allowed to advertise their price they have to say call for price and there is no handcuffed on how low they can sell the game the problem is they're still buying the game like they have to buy the game so the distributor wants to make money um now why does it matter that they that the low matters why does that matter because there are Distributors out there that get they get allotments they get allotments of games that they almost are field forced to take and then those games sit on their shelves and they're stuck with them because even if they wanted to do a clearance even if they wanted to potentially get rid of some of those games at a loss just to get them gone they can't they can't because there's a minimum value set on those games so they're screwed they have they've paid a bunch of money to jjp or Stern or whoever that's gone the money's gone and it's sitting on a shelf and they can't sell it same with accessories there's there's limitations and if they know that if they sell under that price they're they're in trouble like if they get caught they're in trouble do you think there's any Distributors holding on to WWE's I don't at this point I don't know I I but it's you look at like there's a lot of Distributors that have toy stories in stock or I don't know Mandos in stock and it's just it's one of those and and I I definitely think there are some smaller Distributors that that's if most of their capital is set is stuck in games that are on their shelves and they're like I can't I can't get rid of these I cannot try to reclaim any of my money just Chuck them off the roof it's a touchy subject overall I mean I can't speak for how other people run their business that's up to them all I can say is I know that the business that I'm associated with we all of the rules to a t i mean because that's the way to run it because I I personally I wouldn't want the ramifications for not doing it and so I mean that's why I've talked to you guys before it's just like I worry about how the tax laws are all the time I worry about making sure that we stay within the parameter years of what our manufacturers want and I mean that's the way I've always ran things anyways with my previous businesses and with other industries that I've been with and I think that that's me personally for me that's I think that that's the best way to go about things now like I said I can't speak for other people I I don't know how other people run their business I that's for them to decide you know and that's for stern to decide how they want to run their business as well it's just like it is for any other company that's in here so I mean yeah it's it's definitely a touchy subject and that's why you never hear anybody say like what these values are you know and it's the same way like I've told you guys like we've talked about different things before and even though we're on a podcast together I've been up front I've been like hey I can't give you that information or I can't say this or I have to leave something out you know and it's the same way like we might have seen something come out and I'm like okay hey here's what I wasn't able to tell you now we can talk about it so so I mean that's just the way it is and you know I mean to me that's the way to run things as much as you possibly can and you know that's that's just how it is now in terms of what's going on here it's just it's a unique thing when you're when you're dealing with a high-end premium product that obviously there's a lot of people that are very vocal that they don't feel that this is a high-end premium product right I think that's the dynamic that we're kind of seeing play out would you guys agree or disagree with that what do you guys think we're seeing 100 100 that people are like I don't see ramps in this game and you know it's like an em you know even though it's not I mean it's definitely not an em it just says em reels in it yeah but uh yeah I think a lot of people are like well wait a second you know my Mando was x amount of dollars this is way more right and it's like double it doesn't doesn't look like you're getting the same package so that's the biggest problem right and and we talked about this before so I've kind of boiled it down into a couple different things and when this was initially coming up and we knew that Bond 60th was coming up we knew that L one was involved in it the three of us talk privately and I've you know we pretty much predicted exactly what is happening that people are gonna balk at it people are going to be a little bit upset like this nothing is happening right now that was not unexpected basically at least on our end with our private conversations that we've had about this to to the extent that we could have them and you know I I've narrowed this down to three things basically the reason why that things are kind of playing out the way that they're playing out it's one obviously Stern is struggling with the rollout overall of bond in general with how the Cornerstone went and now how the 60th is going right right and then two we're also assuming that dealers that have these allocations right that they have the platform to reach certain buyer bases right that's the other variable that's here the other one that's here is that basically you have the online pinball Community reacting to variable one which is the rollout that Stern has gone with right and so when we look at what the 60th anniversary bond is this license or is gone to all kinds of other product lines all kinds of other Industries and it's everywhere it's not just related to pinball I mean I I was looking through what all before this came out I took a deep dive to figure out okay what other products are out that are carrying this particular line right and I think I forwarded some of it to you guys there's like 125 000 watch out there oh yeah there's an eight thousand dollar bottle of champagne there's a six thousand dollar game of backgammon there's a thirty thousand dollars what was that for Backgammon six thousand dollars but it's Bond it's a 160th version I don't care if it's right but this is just to give an example right and so and then also there's like a thirty thousand dollar motorcycle I think there's like a 25 yeah yeah thirty thousand dollar it was like a little Jeep thing a mock or whatever that's called so I mean there's there's like a 500 pair of shoes right basically what you're saying this is this is geared towards high-end collectors right well it's geared towards the high-end Bond super fans right right and so the thing is is I feel like the way that this game came out from Stern I don't and the way that people are reacting to this in Pinball it's obvious that people aren't understanding that right now they can have their opinion on it I'm not saying like oh you just have to sit down shut up like feel free like say what you think give feedback like there's nothing wrong with that there's absolutely nothing wrong with that but I think that there was definitely a lot of friction or some I I don't know whether to call it a failure or what it is but something has been miscommunicated here to where I feel like maybe Stern wasn't clear enough with who this is for exactly you know or maybe it is that Stern did intend on it going towards the pinball person and it just completely missed the mark on that because I mean all everything that we've looked at prior to this release did not indicate to us personally that this was going to be for your normal pinball buyer right well yet everything about how this has come out it's almost like think of this Joel before you go and think of this this last rollout the way that it came out the way that the trailers were the way that the pictures were rolled out and everything it was basically the same exact way a Cornerstone would be released right and we are all like Pavlov's dog we're all just we know that when a trailer comes out and we expect a Cornerstone now we expect a certain looking game yep whether it's with art with design and with price and if we don't get those things all of a sudden that's when everybody loses their [ __ ] yep because we're so used to that I mean that that's just my theory on it I I think that that's what we're seeing play out right now well to me I think it's because there are a lot of pinball enthusiasts that are they they're either one they've identified themselves as like I am all in on Elwyn so the fact that this is a Keith Owen game that they can't justify buying pisses them off because that's all they want they want more Ellen they would buy every Owen game they can but they can't they can't justify buying this game at twenty thousand dollars so because elwin has made four games in a row that have been slam dunks Grand Slams you know I mean it I mean it's hard to blame people for that you know but uh yeah unfortunately uh I don't know I I know I'm not getting one and the biggest reason is the price I mean I can't justify spending 20 grand yep on a pinball machine that if don't look at themes yeah okay because yeah you do some easy math there Tom you saw two of those boom but it's a joke two of those I know two one and to me yeah I mean if this game in my mind if this game would have come out and it would have been nine grand they would have sold as many as Godzilla like they would just they would have sold the backlog like they at nine grand they would have sold so many of these games so I was thinking about this and and I don't think they can do this because it's a limited edition but what if you eliminate the topper what if you take out the LCD screen what if you remove that spending disk if you possibly could you know take away some features make a premium game well I mean yeah I that would be I mean there would be people that would probably jump all over it I even had um in the loser kid chat that we had Scott had thrown out the idea of like what if Stern re-themed this layout like what if they gave Ellen the chance to do a an unlicensed theme or re-themed it like if that was all it was it was just an L1 shooting game it was his license like I know he loves skate ball what if they just did like a I mean the way it laid out like just making more reels out and just got an LCD and because guess what there's there's the space yeah they could sell a ton of them but that but now we're in the now we're in this situation of stern has already gone down to two games a year like what they're gonna sell a ton of whatever they sell they don't need it's not like they're waiting they're like roll you know twiddling their thumbs trying to find something to build you know but the name the name tells you what it is though the 60th anniversary edition right and across all industries that automatically makes the price go up now Valley goes up to various degrees and obviously there's going to be people listening to this is like well the price shouldn't go up that much but the fact is that's I mean that's what it's doing yeah so I mean then we only have we have the choices as consumers do we want to buy that or do we not want to buy that and I'm telling you this product right it's like but think of it this way how many people are in the industry right now that that want to spend that much money like how many of them are full on like hardcore pinball fans that are really into the Bally Williams days like the the single level games how many are out there that that fall under that demographic exactly yeah I would argue not too many and that's that's what's happening right now and so I think too day one your buyer base on day one they're pinball fans they're not casual buyers they're not people that just suddenly just discovered this they are hardcore pinball enthusiasts on Discord on Facebook on websites listening to podcasts consuming content because that's how they know that this game is coming out that's just that's the reality of it so I think that the buyer base for this pen they're out there they just they haven't been found yet they have to discover the game because it's going to be the high-end James Bond enthusiasts and you can't tell me there's a hundred and twenty five thousand dollar watch out there you cannot tell me yeah that there's not 500 people out there is that true yes like that that's just the way it is so I mean yeah it's just that's just covering that base now covering the other base that did kind of it made things very interesting and I feel I feel for the smaller dealers like and I'm talking about the ones whose you know allocation isn't as high as say the bigger dealers right that it caused a lot of customer confusion a lot of consumer confusion whenever Stern sold these direct because what happened all of a sudden the call for pricing at a price and it was clear now you guys are free to say what it is I'm not going to Broach and say what it is but obviously they put a price out there 18 999 dollars there you go so everybody could have seen it it was right it was on their website exactly so but it's not there anymore well here's the thing here's the thing people went ahead and screenshot it now what I don't know because I was in another meeting when all this was going down yeah of course so but was that so the price was that actually on the website like for everybody to see or was it after the fact that it was on I so I don't know I'm a Stern Insider I actually pay the whatever forty dollars a year for that when the reveal happened I I was like oh I'm four minutes late let's see what Stern sells it for I literally logged in clicked on it and I saw it plain as day like I could have added it to my cart nineteen thousand nine hundred ninety nine dollars I was like did you take a photo of it no no I just saw it your honor yeah I saw it and I'm pretty sure I messaged like the TP and Discord or one of our chats and I was like oh Stern selling it for 20K so as soon as I saw that though I'm like well Stern has set the Baseline now I like Travis said it's supply and demand yeah what's Distributors gonna do are they gonna roll with that are they doing something else well the tip part was too you know obviously if you see nobody else saying what a price is out loud why because it's listed as call for price now Stern can do whatever they want to do because they're producing the game but yeah I knew I knew something was a foot because when I got out of my meeting I had 27 messages on my phone from like 20 different people all basically with the same exact thing like showing what a price was so I mean that getting out there immediately it basically set what the tone was because it wasn't like the bar right because these weren't going to fly fast because we've already established the demographic of this and the demographic is not going to be a day one Buy there it's just not going to be for this particular product so that being said the people that you do have that are involved in pinball right and want to get this product day one well then they automatically had the power to shop around and try to find a price that they could find well what's going to happen if you are panicking at the at the initial reaction to people online what are you gonna do you're going to sell it as fast as you can what happens when you sell something as fast you can does the price go up or does it go down like it it's just it's simple economics and if we just exercise logic we can see that now if we want to get on to stern about taking a price down or whatever you have you they do that for all their games like if if a game gets sold out look at their backlog this isn't some like thing that Stern is just undercutting you know everybody and trying to hide something if you look at all their games that they don't have for sale anymore that's directly on their site it says sold out yeah that's that's what I was trying to pull up on my phone but that's that was brought to my attention that the price is it's removed as soon as it's no longer available yeah and there's and there's this narrative that's gone out there and it's completely false the narrative that's gone out there is that well Stern is trying to trick the buyers and trying they're embarrassed by their price they're doing it it's like they sold out they sold out of the game in like 10 minutes do you think that they're sitting there and they're like you know what guys really embarrassing let's not even show them what price we sold out at you know it's this is a normal practice and for whatever reason people that are hearing this or people that are running with this narrative they just they don't know it's a normal practice and I'm not gonna wonder why they don't know that but I it's that's just the reality of it the game sold out it sold out and so yeah unfortunately I say unfortunately you can name it either way but the price is out there so it is what it is so now that's going to create another Dynamic that people are going to probably choose to run their allocation and run their business around that price and you're going to get people because the game's not selling quickly that I mean that gives the buyer power that gives the buyer a chance to call around to numerous people and say well you know dealer a gave me this price what can you do okay well let me call him back you know I mean I guarantee that's happening no doubt in my mind and you know this is one of the first times probably in what three years that buyers literally have an opportunity to kind of be able to have some wiggle room for negotiation and stuff like that and that's perfectly fine it's just that's the reality of who this product was aimed for and you know let's face facts if we know that the buyer base for this pin like the main demographic for this event is not there day one are they going to discover this game on Facebook like are they going to join a pinball group all of a sudden are they going to discover pin side all of a sudden you know what I mean it yeah it's just like how do you even know this product exists well I don't I don't know that answer yeah if you're not a pen yeah if you're not a pinball fan the only way that you know that this product exists is if you just accidentally run into it right or if you just happen to consume so much James Bond content that all of a sudden they they know about there I mean even if you look at YouTube like Carrie Hardy's thing right yeah his satire that he did it was great yeah if you look at it it's getting more views per hour than what Stearns trailers are for the game oh wow so what does that tell you now I don't know if it'll eventually get more views that's just out of the gate if you look at the metrics of it so what does that tell you who's who's consuming this content and it's pinball people yeah it's tough here because it's very clear like there I mean there are pinball Distributors out there right now that don't even have a website so it's like how are how are these guys you know if you're whatever if I'm if if I'm some athlete with millions of dollars and I just and all of a sudden get into pinball and they're like I like James Bond like twenty thousand dollars is nothing they don't care but how are they gonna find that tiny distributor to to be able to buy the game like I I don't I what I was saying earlier though is is I think there there are two type of people that are in the pinball Community they're either the elwin Fanboys and I'd say that lovingly I don't mean that as like we're like yeah I love this this Godzilla I love it and to me it's like it sucks because they want to support elwin they want to buy Owen's stuff they just can't they can't do it at twenty thousand dollars and then you also have Bond like super fans that are that are pinball enthusiasts and even a bond super fan here they have just been they've been dealing with this for months like do I buy the bond pro at Seven Grand do I buy the premium at night do I buy the Ellie at 12 or am I going to wait and spend twenty thousand dollars to get my dream Theme by like and I think they're just frustrated because it is so expensive now why is it so expensive I don't know I'm not here to be mad at elwin I know there are some people are like oh and sold out no Ellen did his job he was told he was told to design the game he designed the game like and then and then Stern like I it was one of the Gomez interviews it was either super awesome or or something else but it seemed like the licenser said that like well can you make us a game with all the bonds that that's like an older game and they're like oh okay yeah we can do that and sure they it was probably through license or discussion that they decided to make it exclusive and a super LE model where the twenty thousand dollars came from who at Stern or the license who decided that I have no idea yeah I don't know but it is what it is and that's that's a great point that you just made right there I know so yeah so if the license or is requesting this right and it's a special one-off how in the hell is this an indicator of something negative or the Hobby in terms of the direction like like how is it can anybody explain that to me because there's a special edition like how about we reframe this and this isn't a defense of any one thing I I'm just approaching this from the 360 point of view looking at it from every angle why can't it be hey Pinball's gotten so popular over the past few years Stern Jersey Jack everybody else has done such a great job that the licensors of James Bond recognize this and want it to have their 60th anniversary game made into a pinball machine like they saw that and they wanted to do that why why is there nobody considering well that this is this is the fear and I think the fear is that everybody that's a pinball Enthusiast or the majority of people that are pinball enthusiasts they love Keith Owen and the fear is that Stern is trying to do something new where they want to make these super high-end pins that are exclusive and who are they going to put on it they're going to put the best designer right now or the greatest of all time they're gonna put the best they can on these high-end and now all of a sudden here we are all these pinball enthusiasts going we love Ellen we want to play Owen we want to we want to bio on games and all of a sudden you've put them out of reach essentially like what they did with Lyman where Lyman was all the boutique stuff and everybody loved Lyman code but now the normal or the standard middle of the road pinball person was priced out of being able to buy lineman games so I think the fear there is is is this a new Direction that's turns going are you going to put your Golden Boy on your most expensive stuff and if so I I that would piss me off like like I I say that but Keith has said he did this game because he was between two cornerstones exactly so we know we have at least one more before they put him on the exclusive list well it's a fair question and you just answered it right there like the information's all out there they established it up front in their podcast release about it that this was done between cornerstones I mean that's and that's here's the other thing that's coming it's all scripted yeah they're all faking there's really not a jack danger Cornerstone coming out it's thirty thousand dollars it's coming out on a scam yeah but it's like I I don't know I think that it's okay to have a reaction I never want to tell anybody not to have a reaction because everybody's free to have their own opinions how they want to have it except for Joel he's always wrong as we all know yep yep but that being said it's just I I just think that we gotta take a step back realize what this game is for what it is it's not an indicator of of the Hobbies going down the [ __ ] it's just all about greed it's just this and that why can't it just be just a 60th anniversary Bond pen that somebody that likes pinball may or may not buy and guess what if a lot of people decide to not buy it I think Stern's going to keep producing games in this way yeah that's a good way to bankrupt your business so I I don't know like the thing the thing that's gone unseen about this and I told you guys this before like what is something that started at the beginning of this year January 1st at 12 a.m New Year's that yeah besides that nobody is talking about I know the answer what's the answer the answer is every other pinball machine that Stern Pinball makes is now more expensive the price went up across the board even the ones sitting in stock well I they can't all the prices went up they can and nobody and nobody noticed that like all of a sudden it's just been I mean they might have like day one there might there's probably a thread somewhere on pinsider on Facebook or somebody complaining but now this comes out now all of a sudden it's like they're focused it's like a goldfish thing or you know whatever it's like over here looking at this so you know the price is what it is now we know what the cornerstones are in terms of the timing that they're coming out we know what the teams are so I would say to everybody like hey trust me the sky is not falling it's not all of a sudden just gonna be just super L E's left and right is it sailing here's the thing the market speaks the market speaks and if the market doesn't want something guess what a company will adjust because if they don't they end up out of business that's just the reality of it and I think what's what's interesting is you you bet there it is again Elgato no signal god um no we like to bring levity Joel so it's what I was saying though is you you back up when we're in the middle of pandemic it it it didn't matter what pinball machine was being made people just were dying for a game Distributors were placing orders basically give me as many as you can because I can't keep anything in stock everything's selling it was just bye bye bye bye bye and here we are you look at um TNA TNA was announced the Remake it came out more expensive than people thought it isn't sold out they haven't they did not sell out of them you look at um Scooby-Doo you can still buy a Scooby-Doo like every other release that spooky had before Scooby-Doo was sold out within hours and here we are we're going on weeks now Scooby-Doo is still available and it's not sold out you look at um Toy Story like Toy Story Shore Toy Story the the Ellie allotment and the the CE allotments the CE sold out but there are Distributors that have them right now on the Shelf trying to sell them for MSRP so they sold out to just like I think we've had some of the more recent release I think there's Bond Les that you can buy like there are readily available games in the last few releases so I do think some of these manufacturers are starting to see actually see price ceilings or not or like where they're at now I think this Bond game is is unique it is a super Le it is it is something and we're gonna have to wait and see what jjp does when jjp's next game comes out do I think they're going to go lower than the what was it 12-5 that was the Le and then the 15 that was the seed do I think they're going to go lower I don't think they're gonna decrease their price but I don't think they're going to raise it like I I just personally I don't I mean I got nothing wrong with prices being Dynamic from a manufacturer I've told you guys this before it it's definitely odd that on a premium product that the prices are usually the same across the board you know that's always just kind of throwing me for a loop a little bit because obviously when the prices stay the same like that that's what really starts to cause an imbalance too because the demand is way higher for something else than obviously if it's priced the same and people stay at that you know the product's going to be gone instantly that that's just the way it works so you know I don't know it at the end of the day just like we talked about the price is the price uh I guess just wrapping up uh or tying up a nice little bow on top of bond 60. I think it's just going to ultimately depend on when companies can find the buyer base for this and that's that's ultimately what it'll boil down to it's got to be the bond Super Fan and the bond Super Fan is that's not involved in pinball they're not going to discover this game today and so what have we talked about before the great thing about pinball themes is every time somebody new gets into the pinball industry it's the first time they're discovering all these games at the very beginning so I mean that's just the way it is that's the way it always will be yeah and I I just what has surprised me through this reveal uh it wasn't the price when I saw 20 I was a good I'm glad it's 20 and not 25 or 30 or 35 that some people are saying like 20 okay 15 I think 15 it would have sold a lot you know but when I saw his 20 I was like all right it's 20. but it just I'm excited about the pin itself I do think it'll shoot well I think the code looks fun I think the game will be fun I don't know when I'm gonna have a chance to touch one or play one but I'm looking forward to that I'm looking forward to that I understand if you're oh just sell two games behind you and you'll have a chance to touch one and you'll have half of it yeah almost there so I it's that's that was my initial thought but my thought though yes if you're a Keith Super Fan I'm sorry it's twenty thousand dollars I mean it's either you buy it or you don't if you're a bond Super Fan I'm sorry it's twenty thousand dollars you either buy it or you don't luckily if you're a bond Super Fan there's a pro premium Le of another Bond game you can go for otherwise there's a what is it a Sega version or was it data ease version I bought like there's that that there's a you know I mean there's there's different levels there's probably somebody listening to our podcast right now that cannot afford a pro pinball machine of their dream theme right now I mean and that's I mean that's just yeah oh Rush that's just the way it is and Rush is a fantastic game by the way I've I've heard people complaining about you know like there's nothing in games there's there's Sterns going backwards this and that and I'm like I'm looking at rush and it's like one of the most like jam-packed games in recent memory I mean it really is when you break it down and you look at I mean hell Tom you're Ellie behind you like the expression lights are just the tip of the iceberg all right let's think about this Joel let's break this down what do they say from a to a fundamental standpoint right it's got expression lights it's got drop targets it's got a movable ramp it's got a magnet it's got a fork that creates a captive that creates a captive ball it's got three scoops with a Subway right it's got yeah it's got a Subway it's got a diverter it's like it's got three different wire forms right Optical spinner it's got a concert on an LCD screen it's got fantastic art a drum clock in it yeah yeah I mean unfortunately it has terrible rules and code oh wow coming through your door right now I don't know you're taking a sledgehammer time I know Raymond consumes everything and I just want him like I just I know he reacted that's the only reason I say it yeah so what what I'm getting at that right now it's like it's like yeah yeah it's just I've heard so many people just over the past 48 hours I'm sure you guys have heard it too that they're just like oh Stern's going backwards there's nothing in the game there's this and that it's like for F's sake we just had Godzilla just two years ago or less than two years ago number one game Stern has like five or six of the last like major top 15 top 10 games yeah who's voting on this it's literally it's the consumer so it's like it's like what are we talking about Godzilla wouldn't help me what are we talking about Godzilla's insane Rush was really good was is really really good and it's just I think overall just the bond reveal between all four models has just been a mess and I just I think people are really struggling with that and the fact that they know like it's unknown what's coming next year like if if there was an Owen game right around the corner I think people would take a few deep breaths and be ready for whatever but it's like the the Brian Eddy Dwight combo they're just like let's see let's see I hope but that's what I'm hoping for I'm hoping the next Cornerstone comes out it's a banger it's awesome and people can take a deep breath and realize you know this is this is an exclusive game just like Elvira 40th you know right well in people's reaction is always going to be based on what's the latest thing yeah like what happened when Jersey Jack revealed Pirates there was like there was yeah everybody went into the Pirates what's next Yeah Yeah well yeah well before that Joel there was people that were saying like oh Stern's going to close down there was like a massive thread like a dark night for stern Allison that I remember that I mean they didn't yeah yeah so it's like people just they react so quickly instead of just taking a step back and saying okay what is this and again it's fine to have opinions right we us three have opinions and people let us know all the time when they think our opinions are wrong yeah but we're willing to take a step back and look at something for what it is and test it out and see if our first impression of something holds up and that's what I love about you two is we are willing to change our minds on something we're willing to see it for what it is once we get around to playing it or once we get around to experiencing it then we try to formulate what our full idea is of whatever we're seeing so I I don't know I I think that it's just one of those things that I I personally think that the industry is very healthy right now I can say that just being obviously on the inside of the industry I tell you guys all the time like things are good but yeah of course things could go down there's Ebbs and flow to everything but I don't think things are going to go down simply because the company prices one particular product when they have like 20 or 22 other variations of their products that could go on the line at any given time sure it's just it's way too much of an overreaction and it's just it's like the same way if Jersey Jack comes out with an absolute Banger at tpf or whenever they decide to come out with it that everybody forgets about Toy Story yeah like everybody forgets about that I will say when I interviewed George Gomez the thing that made me it really bumps is throw that in her face I interviewed I interviewed Tom Graf that's right yeah no when I what bumped me out was right at the end when he was just and then he said he goes hey you know for all you Bond owners like the code is coming I you know please understand how much I care about this game the code will happen and he goes I don't he goes I'm not the devil or whatever he said he's like I don't know why so many people have made me out to be just think I'm just the worst and I don't you could tell it genuinely hurt him of like so many people are ready to grab the Pitchfork so like Stern's doing this and they're not gonna do this for every game yeah what's the difference and that's what that's my own kids do that for me when I cook freaking breakfast in the morning I understand I don't want eggs it's just like we said Joel we know how much it means to Gomez yeah oh yeah like we we know that and it's not like everybody's sitting at Stern and they're like well how can we screw over the customer today and how can we piss them off here it's like of course they're passionate about their job they want to bring value they they want to do that and I think it'll happen okay sorry I totally interrupted I was the owner you're a freaking Beauty Tom I love it for anybody that's watching the video you guys get it now you guys totally get it now that you can see Tom and you can also see trans shaved today say that again Joel you can what you can see Travis's walls so no you can see me because my camera's working oh you Richard walls are way more important hey though is for anybody that's listening to this podcast or watching it you're clearly a pinball Enthusiast and you're you're probably consuming all the media you can or reading everything you can and at the end of the day make sure you're enjoying the hobby like if you're reading stuff and you find yourself getting mad or frustrated or venting or angry like this is a hobby like make sure you're having fun with this and if you're not maybe take a breath like step away for a day or you know if you're listening to somebody just complain constantly maybe stop listening to it for a little bit and just realize like we're supposed to have fun here we're supposed to have fun and that to me it's just in this particular reveal and seeing so much hate directed towards Stern like this is everything's falling apart blah blah blah it's like no like no just just know like just I don't know so that at the end of the day the content that I try to create I'm trying to share the enjoyment that I have for this Hobby and and I hope that's what people take away from the Pod thank you for the eye roll Travis that's my goal so if they were streaming a game like I want to make sure people are enjoying it so enough about that okay do you want to see any breakfast go watch Justin no just no go watch yeah the flipping out stream only on YouTube We're on YouTube this year yeah if you want confidence going to endisk or playing State just watch just another pinball stream or whatever you're on Joel flip it out oh flipping out sorry well I can't yeah it's yeah I once again when you're talking about confidence in my stream one of the best comments that I've ever read on my stream was somebody told me watching your stream would build my confidence just like going to Walmart builds my confidence on my looks you know it's something along it was something along those lines and uh there's truth there's truth to it but you mentioned in disk well we'll wrap that I don't know is there anything else I think we've I think we fit the 60th anniversary game we're looking forward to a stream yeah we can talk more about the actual oh [ __ ] on it and exit up and so let's move on yeah let's just all go outside just have a good old scream at the sky and it'll be fine we should try to get Keith on as an extra ball and be like why'd you sell out you know and then he just clicks off on the video Oh you mean like I did my job and designed a game yeah okay no um what was that good it's in disk indisk Joel we're serious we're all three of us are serious competitive players I just hope I can get there like well Carl Weathers-wise why wouldn't you be able to get there Tom because of freaking Carl Weathers around here I don't know if it's gonna snow or sleet or rain or well you'll be able to so before in this though you do have States so you will be able to no that isn't great I'm trying to keep a conversation going uh Travis yeah that's better or worse I I don't I'm fine I haven't looked at a calendar I don't know I assume states were before in disk no I look at it like the Super Bowl the purest yeah like huh you're lucky Tom and I are even still here right now you're a serious competitive player no I'm not no like you tell me all the time he's rolling around as proverbial second place grave right now Carl's never coming back on here to replace me now you don't even know when in discus uh we love Carl he bought a shirt and he wore it on stream I just think that's the coolest thing ever that was awesome yeah anyways thank you Carl the hilarious thing was I was watching and I didn't even notice it somebody in championship and I'm like oh yeah nice shirt yeah well that's because we we watched the Playfield and we're like oh how the hell is Carl doing this with this ball now and oh okay it's hitting that shot now exactly like yeah it's fantastic to watch play I mean I really have point two billion on T-Rex multiball Tom Tom you know we need to set up now like we need to set up a pin Slash competition between Carl and Joel why why like what because it'd be hilarious Joel that's why yeah and how much of a handicap would Joel need I would need 15 minutes oh it's that's right it's pin Slash it's it's how quickly you can do something now okay how quickly do you think there's anything on Godzilla that you could beat Carl at like in a pin Slash way I could probably turn the machine on here you can because I got some long arms I could turn the pinball machine I think Carl probably has his voice activated he'll bust that myth really fast you know I have mine I have a circuit for this entire wall and it's on a light switch so I could turn all the games on with a flicker but I'm saying if you're standing in front of the game hands on the flippers who turns it on first I think I'm winning my arms are longer that's all I'm saying but besides that no if you're actually talking about playing the game no there's I don't think there's a single thing in involved in playing Godzilla that I could do better than Carl well okay is there anyone is there any one thing at Godzilla do you think you could beat him at just once like just one time out of like a hundred uh maybe who can hit the skill shot first you know like plunge like maybe maybe I I don't know I we need to build up that confidence Joel I think you could beat Carl in a skill shot competition at least once out of 100. skill I feel like I I've ever had in pinball involves hitting the upper flipper shot on Led Zeppelin and that's just because the two of you and David said one doesn't it legitimately we're surprised at how well I could hit that shot that's the only shot in pinball that I feel like I might actually be above average at with you something like that my favorite parts of the whole thing is that you didn't realize how difficult that shot was I mean for some like you know we were like all mesmerized by and Joel's like what like this is yeah like I just assumed everybody did and we're like no that's not normal Joel and then realizing how much it helps with points because it activates the super modes or whatever and Raymond's like oh you did it again up you did it again oh help you and he's like you have three super modes going oh you drained like in his world it's like if I had that I would have capitalized and got blah blah blah it's like I don't know that's the only thing that's literally the only the only skill that I think I have but anyway in disc it's coming up you guys are both going I Know Travis is gonna be in it oh I don't know the games Rush being in it's pretty awesome yeah Dalton is gonna be stoked Dalton's not even there oh but he'll probably be he'll probably be stoked Georgia wherever he's from Yeah Carl did stream Rush the other day in just a destroyed it like to an insane level didn't he get like something like billions on the one mode because he yeah yeah everything going and he hit all 12 shots perfectly no big deal yeah no no big deal you knew it was gonna happen there's like a 12-way lavilla with what like 750 percent boost or 900 something crazy try that at in disc um was uh was how is Halloween in it yeah we had a question for Carl because uh what is it the gym James he could possibly put it in I mean there's still four more games to come like so far in the main it's Deadpool Firepower Flash Gordon high speed Joker poker Revenge from Mars which is a really interesting pick in there uh Rush space station Star Trek Next Gen Street Fighter 2 another interesting one yeah Surf and Safari Tommy Tron and World Cup soccer I got a prediction uh-oh okay so so last year member Zach had a herni because Mystery Castle was the last game picked yeah and that was the last game played and oh yeah the whole thing yep this year it's going to be Street Fighter 2. it will be the final uh as if there's a Topper I think Zach's fine with it well did it didn't they change it kind of to where okay so if you pick a game it's completely burned right right like you can't pick it again right so I mean that was the whole thing that was it was like that last year though too wasn't it yeah yeah that that's yeah we're gonna end up with uh Revenge from Mars is isn't you you can replace if you're the number one seed you can replace a game right from either the women's or the classics oh yeah well and then it entirely depends on who gets that number one seed I mean that the odds are pretty good that it's gonna be a Stern that's gonna get pulled unless I think it's Usher unless it's Escher yeah if it's if it's anybody that can legally buy alcohol I think it's probably I think Kaylee was number one seed last year and he put in Doctor Who thank you pretty sure I think that's that sounds about right because Doctor Who was not in qualified I was in the yeah it was in the women's division so when is in disc how soon is this uh week and a half flying out on Wednesday so sure next week that's exciting no I'm next week that'll be really cool I know uh tune in on uh I.E pinball to watch all the action oh I'm ready I that's it's so well done it's a big deal too because it is a major world championship so yeah and Travis and I intend to win all the term oh yeah yeah I've already announced that I take Classics one you take Classics too that's good and then um yeah then we'll just figure it out along the way yeah I mean I mean here's the it Joel it is a pretty big deal though there's people from Europe coming into play there's people from across the country coming into play all the top players will be there so it's it'll be exciting watch and then I guess this would be a good time to plug um I don't know what the website is though uh Tim Sexton's fantasy pinball they does a fan like a fantasy football but for oh yeah but for pinball yeah on you guys well you can't you don't bad but yeah you can play it's like so each player is assigned a value right yeah I mean you probably don't need to do this because you already bagged on Tim earlier you know about rush and all that but he'll probably just put his part between the trash yeah Tim's Tim's pinball statistics oh that might be it pinball statistics.com I think so yeah you get like a 250 dollar uh budget and then each player has a money value associated with them and you get five players total and then there's a point total according to where they finish in the tournament nice nice oh that sounds fun yeah but of course statistics.com nice so Joel who do you think is number one uh either Escher or Raymond pretty good see you pay attention I I'm not an idiot pay attention you know I didn't say you're an idiot you just you didn't know when endisk was so I just I don't know looking at the calendar okay so index in disc is next week or a week and a half that's awesome uh just side note Mark everybody mark their calendar for the 28th 28th of January is the the pinball Awards so the pinball industry Awards we changed the name to the pinball Awards we now have included um a public vote so as long as well as the committee vote so this is probably going to come out after the fact but if you're hearing this on Friday uh if you want to be a judge please apply but um pinball Awards that'll be fun I I will be at that that's actually going to be filmed at the flipping out barn and a bunch of tpn people will be there and it's gonna be a good time so if you want to watch another live pinball event that's on the 28th well you skipped over another week what's the other one Joel that's coming up I know State Joel I know I'm not playing in state neither you're not playing hey Tom how's that no Tom stay is very interesting is like it's like 1.5 if that way so who's all going to Wisconsin Tom there's a lot of players didn't we read these off last week we did but now people are confirmed oh we've all had to decide so uh myself Neil um Dave Deluga uh Josh Sharpe Zach Sharpe uh some they live in Chicago kid named esher lefka Escher lives in Colorado yeah and they're coming Yeah Tim Saxton Chicago um Jason wardrobe he's he's he picked uh Ohio okay where he's from yeah but uh that that's that's the uh ifpa rules it doesn't go by boundaries it goes by where you've played so if if you qualify in a state you have the right to pick it so Travis you've qualified in multiple States and you are picking none of them none of them now I just didn't feel like playing the chair I I'll I've told a lot of people before heads up is my least favorite format of all like I I'm having to convince myself to even play in the stern pro circuit finals because it's they changed the heads up and I'm just I don't know I I'm just not a big fan of it like if I can make an exception just because it's a world championship lots of great competition out there I want to go play in that but yeah so it's up it just doesn't do anything I don't explain that yeah please explain heads up and why that's why you don't like it well heads up means you're playing against somebody like one verse one head dad oh it's like four people head to head no no it's just like 1v1 so kind of like what happened at Expo where we were all playing what was it the best of five or something like that so with this it's the best of seven and I've done it a couple times and I've gone on to play Nationals I mean it was fun then but now at this point I've just gotten to where if I know I'm not going to have fun with a certain format like I just feel better just sitting out taking a break yeah you want to take a breather yeah yeah and so I'm still going to go down to Oklahoma and still like share my friends on and then Monica's going to play in the women's State the day after so I mean I'm still gonna go down too so good I don't know I still have a lot of women friends down there too they'll be playing against her I'll be cheering for everybody yeah so many women friends yeah so many so many well bye Carolyn shout out to you because I know she's listening we are approaching the two-hour Mark so I want to say one other thing go for it so Cassidy malinowski is playing in both the Wisconsin State and the women's State nice is that at the same spot or it's not it's a women's State somewhere else that is a Dave Anderson's place so I've showed you his collection before he's got like all the spooky games and a bunch of other ones too so it's pretty much pretty good diverse uh collection nice well good for Eric yeah yeah all right well yeah is there anything else um I'm looking at our notes we said uh Twitter once again thank you for all the uh the twippy the people that nominated us for the twippy feel free to vote thank you very much uh and I wanted to mention the Gomez interview which apparently I've you know rubbed in your face too many times at this point yeah Bond 60th and so I think check check I think we we nailed all those so crushed it um I think it's probably time to plug it up so Travis let's hear you uh let's hear you plug the pocket yeah you guys can find me on YouTube now at whatever triple drill this is true what are we doing triple drain do we have an underscore nope it's just we don't drink triple drink okay you guys are watching this hit the Subscribe button hit the Bell do do all that stuff and if you're listed us on the uh on the audios thank you appreciate it so to clarify that we do we did start a YouTube channel we've actually had it for a little while now we've just never had anything on it so the thought eventually is we're gonna have these videos be exclusive to the patreon people and then maybe like two weeks after then we'll put them on our YouTube so that people could find them after the fact so you could see them it will just be potentially a little out of date um so yes feel free to join that find that subscribe to it um and yeah videos will be trickling out on there um they will just be slightly delayed based on the audio and patreon release so that's our YouTube channel so thank you Travis for plugging that um Tom uh I you can find me at the triple drain and also uh Fox Cities pinball on YouTube and twitch and Instagram Facebook only fans all the things all the things all the things wonderful and yes to the people that are watching this on video I hope you enjoyed it I hope you enjoy the video this is it's a lot more fun to talk to these guys and look at them hopefully looking at us is more enjoyable I don't know if you enjoy the video I'm glad you enjoyed the video um and if you like it feel free to join the patreon patreon's uh triple underscore drain on patreon.com and and you'll have access to all the videos we have moving forward um otherwise if you're not watching the video and you enjoy listening to the podcast thank you I'm glad you enjoy listening um and we will continue to release that same way we have been um yeah and I'm Joel and I am streaming um now I stream and entirely for flipping out and we're streaming on YouTube we're trying something new YouTube streaming is growing we think it's a it's a platform that that has more growth opportunity um for people outside of the the kind of the twitch group um nothing against twitch enjoy streaming on Twitch but just trying something new really so um that is every Wednesday night from 10 to midnight Eastern Standard Time and I'll alternate between a chatting stream like we did last night and uh playing pinball stream and all those videos will immediately be up on YouTube so you can watch some later and speaking uh it's time it's time to stop because that is what the third or fourth time that Travis's camera has shut down so third so this is a perfect time he's not probably not even going to turn it back on so um nope yeah so like always Tom uh you have the last words peace and pinball everybody foreign

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 2f0e56f7-c960-4138-91db-98e87abc3299*