# DPP# 190 "Is this Wizard Week?" **Source:** Don's Pinball Podcast (regular feed) **Type:** podcast_episode **Published:** 2025-05-21 **Duration:** 83m 42s **Beat:** Pinball **URL:** https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/donspinballpodcast/episodes/DPP-190-Is-this-Wizard-Week-e334h0s --- ## Analysis Don discusses rumors that Harry Potter pinball might ship this week (contrary to earlier reports of production delays), speculates about Hogwarts Castle placement and collector's edition topper design, addresses D&D DLC/topper content accessibility concerns, reports on Galactic Tank Force Signature Edition clearance pricing ($7,000-$8,000), and covers American Pinball Memorial Day sales. Secondary topics include Predator pinball teasing from Pinball Brothers and arcade crossover community engagement. ### Key Claims - [LOW] Harry Potter pinball is coming this week per rumor — _Don received unverified rumor claiming Harry Potter ships this week, contradicting earlier narrative of production delays and Rowling art changes_ - [LOW] Hogwarts Castle may not appear on playfield, possibly reserved for topper instead — _Don speculates based on rumor that castle is either interior-focused or reserved as exclusive topper element for CE_ - [MEDIUM] Galactic Tank Force Signature Edition was produced as 200 units, with 45 remaining in inventory at factory — _Don states from memory of factory visit; now selling for $7,000-$8,000 after initial $15,000-$16,000 MSRP_ - [HIGH] Jersey Jack CE games (except Pirates of the Caribbean) sell below MSRP on secondary market — _Don cites example of Godfather CE available under $9,000 for $15,000 MSRP game; notes trend across JJP releases_ - [MEDIUM] D&D topper will unlock exclusive character class DLC via Stern Insider Connected app — _Don reports similar to Ghost Rider bonus character on Venom; topper-exclusive unlockable content_ - [MEDIUM] Predator pinball is wide-body format, not ABBA reskin — _Don initially spotted 4 holes suggesting ABBA layout, but states subsequently reconfirmed as wide-body with original design_ - [HIGH] Galactic Tank Force Signature Edition featured minimal value-add: signatures on apron, fluorescent paint on sculpts, Titan bands (~$25 cost) — _Don details specific cosmetic additions and criticizes lack of value justification at $16,000 price point_ ### Notable Quotes > "JK Rowling is flexing her creative muscle and making last minute changes, trashing play fields. It's all bedlam." > — **Don (relaying rumor)**, early in episode > _Captures the chaotic rumor narrative that had been circulating before conflicting 'ship this week' rumor_ > "I've built up quite a bit in my head... I would expect to see [Hogwarts Castle] here. But maybe it's a castle interior. Maybe it's not even a real rumor I'm hearing." > — **Don**, mid-episode > _Shows Don's uncertainty and speculation about fundamental game design element; reveals he's managing expectations vs. imagination_ > "Your anticipation is built up way more than any product could deliver... it's going to fall short and then feel underwhelming." > — **Don**, mid-episode > _Explicitly articulates concern about overhyped expectations dooming even excellent game reception_ > "Nobody wanted a tank edition. Nobody wants a pinball machine that folds up into a tank because you literally never fold up a pinball machine ever." > — **Don**, on Galactic Tank Force > _Harsh critique of design philosophy; implies feature mismatch with actual user behavior_ > "The problem is not everybody... they don't have the space in their game rooms for a Topper." > — **Don**, D&D topper discussion > _Identifies real accessibility issue with topper-exclusive DLC model; proposes solutions_ > "What the heck man. You paying. You don even get a topper you can see. Oh unless you fold it up which you never do." > — **Don**, GTF back-box topper criticism > _Sarcastically criticizes GTF Signature Edition value proposition; hidden topper negates visual appeal_ > "So for the price of a Stern Pro, which probably has better game playing code and is going to hold up better, you can get yourself a new in-box Signature Edition Galactic Tank Force." > — **Don**, GTF pricing analysis > _Comparative value analysis suggesting GTF at $7-8k is now competitively positioned_ ### Entities | Name | Type | Context | |------|------|---------| | Harry Potter | game | Jersey Jack Pinball game; subject of 'shipping this week' unverified rumor; rumored Hogwarts Castle placement debate; unlimited-in-number CE model | | Don | person | Host of Don's Pinball Podcast; provides commentary on market trends, rumors, and personal collection considerations | | Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Manufacturer of Harry Potter, Godfather, Elton John, Pirate's of the Caribbean; known for high MSRP, secondary market depreciation (except Pirates), and topper-exclusive DLC | | Galactic Tank Force | game | American Pinball game; Signature Edition produced as 200 units; originally $15,000-$16,000 MSRP, now selling $7,000-$8,000; criticized for poor value-add and sticky shooter rod | | American Pinball | company | Manufacturer of Galactic Tank Force, Hot Wheels, Berrios BBQ Challenge, Legends of Valhalla; running Memorial Day sales | | Predator | game | Pinball Brothers game; rumored as wide-body; playfield photos leaked/shared; release date reportedly set internally but unconfirmed | | Pinball Brothers | company | Manufacturer of Predator; criticized for ABBA layout design; single operator running company | | Dungeons & Dragons: The Tyrant's Eye | game | Stern game receiving topper-exclusive character class DLC unlockable via Insider Connected app; Don advocates for à la carte DLC sales option | | Godfather | game | Jersey Jack Pinball game; CE available below MSRP (~$9,000 for $15,000 game); features animatronic topper, gold wire forms; Don critiques horse-head shooter rod ergonomics | | Elton John | game | Jersey Jack Pinball game; CE features laser/projection effects that transform game room lighting; Don credits video example of CE home installation | | Stern Pinball | company | Manufacturer of D&D; implementing topper-exclusive DLC model via Insider Connected app; competitor to JJP/American Pinball | | Pirates of the Caribbean | game | Jersey Jack Pinball wide-body game; only JJP game selling above MSRP on secondary market; Don praises boat/ramp mechanism | | Snap Arcade | person/entity | Shared Predator playfield photos with Don; thanked by Don for image sourcing | | Retro Gengo | person | YouTube content creator and WAP partner; posted Predator teaser reaction and video; known for enthusiasm | | Jack Winery | person | Implied Jersey Jack leadership (likely Jack Danger or similar); Don jokes about wallet pressure and delays since March TPF announcement | | Alan Lawrence | person | Perfect Storm Gaming stream participant; transitioning from arcade world to pinball; attended Allentown Pin Fest; interviewed by Don | | Perfect Storm Gaming | organization | Weekly YouTube stream (Wednesdays 8pm) featuring classic arcade gameplay and discussion; arcade community crossover to pinball | | Naps Arcade | person/entity | Updated pre-order/availability information; tracking Predator release date | | Dennis Nordman | person | Involved in Galactic Tank Force design; selling remaining Signature Edition units at $7,000 via Pinside | | Jeff | person | MadPinball.com owner; distributor offering American Pinball Memorial Day sales | ### Topics - **Primary:** Harry Potter release timing and rumor management, Game design expectations vs. reality (anticipation management), Collector's Edition topper features and design philosophy, Topper-exclusive DLC accessibility and pricing models - **Secondary:** Secondary market pricing trends for JJP games, Galactic Tank Force clearance pricing and value proposition failure, Predator pinball teasing and release strategy - **Mentioned:** Arcade-to-pinball community crossover ### Sentiment **Mixed** (0.42) — Don expresses excitement about Harry Potter rumor and speculation, tempered by skepticism about rumor sourcing and self-aware warnings about overhyped expectations. Critical of American Pinball's GTF Signature Edition pricing/value strategy and Pinball Brothers' design execution, but appreciative of secondary market deals emerging. Generally neutral-to-positive about D&D DLC concept but frustrated with implementation constraints (topper space requirements). Tone shifts from speculative enthusiasm (Harry Potter) to resignation (acceptance of inevitable disappointment). ### Signals - **[business_signal]** Pinball Brothers' teasing strategy (without release date) appears reactive to Harry Potter delay rumors; may be attempting to capture window before Potter releases (confidence: medium) — Don speculates: 'Maybe they've heard that there was going to be a two month delay now there's a little window and they decided to kind of rush this game out' - **[community_signal]** Arcade/classic game community (Perfect Storm Gaming crew) showing crossover interest into pinball; Alan Lawrence attending Allentown Pin Fest signals arcade-to-pinball migration (confidence: medium) — Don celebrates crossover: 'I love that there's this crossover' and notes Alan as arcade enthusiast now engaging with pinball via Allentown event - **[design_philosophy]** Galactic Tank Force tank-folding feature criticized as fundamentally misaligned with user behavior; topper hidden on back of backbox is invisible unless tank is folded (which never happens) (confidence: high) — Don: 'Nobody wants a pinball machine that folds up into a tank because you literally never fold up a pinball machine ever' and 'You paying. You don even get a topper you can see. Oh unless you fold it up which you never do.' - **[design_philosophy]** Galactic Tank Force Signature Edition criticized as poor value: minimal cosmetic add-ons (signatures, fluorescent paint, ~$25 Titan bands) do not justify $16k price point (confidence: high) — Don details specific additions and states: 'I wasn't going to fork over $16,000 for that game... what in the world were you really getting with the signature edition and the answer was not much' - **[leak_detection]** Predator playfield photos leaked/shared; Pinball Brothers teasing via comic book imagery and upside-down playfield hints (confidence: medium) — Don mentions Snap Arcade and Retro Gengo posting Predator playfield images; brother's use of 'subtle nod' teasing strategy - **[market_signal]** Galactic Tank Force Signature Edition pricing collapse from $15,000-$16,000 MSRP to $7,000-$8,000; inventory clearing at factory (confidence: high) — Don reports 45 units sitting in boxes at factory; distributors offering $8k, Dennis Nordman selling for $7k on Pinside - **[market_signal]** Secondary market trend: JJP CEs (except Pirates) depreciate below MSRP; Don monitoring Godfather CE at sub-$9k and considering purchase at $7k+ floor (confidence: high) — Don: 'Godfather CEs recently. I got a friend looking to pick one up for under $9,000 for a $15,000 game' and 'even starting to look at Godfather CEs now... as they trickle down south of $9,000 I'm kind of like giving them a little bit of a side eye' - **[product_strategy]** Stern/JJP topper-exclusive DLC model problematic for collectors without ceiling space; Don proposes à la carte DLC sales as alternative (confidence: high) — Don articulates: 'The problem is not everybody... they don't have the space in their game rooms for a Topper' and proposes $300-400 DLC-only or board-only options - **[rumor_hype]** Harry Potter shipping this week per unverified rumor, contradicting earlier narrative of JK Rowling art changes and production delays (confidence: low) — Don states: 'apparently it's coming this week. So we've got a couple days to find out if this rumor's true' and 'None of this is verified at all' - **[sentiment_shift]** Don's internal conflict about Harry Potter: oscillating between FOMO collector impulse and skepticism about overhyped expectations; expects game to disappoint despite quality (confidence: high) — Don: 'I keep bouncing around, somewhere here in the middle' and 'it's going to fall short and then feel underwhelming' and 'inevitably that's what's going to happen' --- ## Transcript What's going on, brethren? How you all doing? Don's Pinball Podcast back here with a bouncy chiptune. Absolutely a bop. Episode number 190, a ton of stuff to get through. Everything from Galactic Tank Force sales on down to DLC for D&D. And is Harry Potter coming this week? Gonna get into all that and more here. If you can, be a bro. Take a second. Five-star review on Spotify, sure would appreciate it. And with that homework out of the way, let's get into what's going on so a funny thing happened on my way out of bed this morning and that's that i got a uh so rumor sent to me was not expecting this what a way to wake up how about hey don uh you know don't say where you heard this but i love always love when a rumor starts with that uh harry potter uh this week is what i got which completely shocked me because by all accounts the rumor mill has been churning out this business the jk rowling is flexing her creative muscle and making last minute changes, trashing playfields. It's all bedlam. There's a giant bonfire there in Elk Grove Village of all the Harry Potter cabinets that were finished in production that had to be burned in order to get the new all this medlam and bayham. I think that's how you say those. So now, of course, these are all rumors. None of this is verified at all, including what I heard today. But now I heard, you know what, Don? Plan is. And people that seem to like the flex that they know have been kind of pushing against this narrative that there's last minute art changes or whatever. But yeah, apparently it's coming this week. So we've got a couple days to find out if this rumor's true. At this point, I'm just sitting back with my butterbeer popcorn and trying to watch how this whole thing plays out. I still have no idea which way I'm going to go on this. I've got friends on one side that have said, I don't care what it looks like or whatever, or what the cost is. I'm getting a CE. I've already made that poor decision. And they're committed to it. Other people are like, you know what? this isn't even a theme that I really even want at this point, Predators coming out I've got these other rumored games and so I'm completely out I keep bouncing around, somewhere here in the middle and I think it's because I just don't have enough basis of information to weigh anything on I keep going back and forth man I'm swinging back into the Harry Potter camp now I'm churned on this news and then I get the second part of this rumor and that is Hogwarts Castle, nowhere to be seen at least on the playfield under the glass which I mean listen I'm not a professional pinball designer but the Harry Potter pinball machine that I've built up in my head includes that castle as like the whole back third of the playfield you know and then everything that's happening in and around Hogwarts castle you know you got light up turrets and like you know ghosts and projection effects and all this stuff I've built it up quite a bit in my head you walk into any you know major theme park and what are you greeted with a huge castle there, you know, just at the back of your field of vision. And so, like, that's what I would expect to see here. But maybe it's a castle interior. Maybe it's not even a real rumor I'm hearing. Who knows? Maybe, and this was posited in the Discord, so thank you to you guys, what about if the castle is actually the topper and that would kind of make sense, especially if the collector's edition was the only one that came with the exclusive Hogwarts topper with the light-up ghost effects and the projection effects and stuff and the fire-simulated stuff and magical sparkles being projected around your game room as you're playing, like, that would be a pretty magical thing to put up there. I saw a buddy posted a photo, sent to me, actually a little video of his Elton John CE, the collector's edition, the top-end edition of Elton John. He had this game at home. Now, it's a game that everybody enjoys the gameplay of. Not everybody's wrapped up in the theme, and some folks like me find the gameplay to be just a little bit too shallow to really jump in and bring home. But watching this guy's video of this in his game room, I've seen the CEs on location. I've seen the CEs at these big cavernous halls at pinball shows, throwing the lasers all over and stuff. But in a small room, this thing is absolutely decorating the ceiling and the walls and the floor with light and laser effects and projections. It really looks pretty impressive to the point that, like, I'm coming around again to say, you know what? I think at some point it might be fun to have an Elton John CE kind of pass through the game room at home. And those of you that own it at home, I'm sure it plays, you know, much different in a confined space with all those lasers going everywhere. So imagine that with Harry Potter, with, like, magic spells going off and projections are painting your room. Like, how amazing would that be? Like, bring the experience out of the pinball machine, you know, make it a focal point. I kind of, I'm kind of in love with that. So I think at this point, I'm just building myself up to what we call anticipation, and this is when there's a rumored riot or something, and you don't have solid information to go on, but you've got, as Spongebob said, imagination, and as you configure this thing in your head, you build it up to a point that it's something that reality, no matter how impressive, can never quite meet that, and so your anticipation is built up way more than any product could deliver, and it kind of goes back to my little tongue-in-cheek talk about how Harry Potter is going to disappoint everybody. We build it up in my head, or in our collective heads, and then when we go ahead and unwrap this thing, if it doesn't meet those high standards that we've set in our own imagination, it's going to fall short and then feel underwhelming. And I think inevitably that's what's going to happen because unless this thing has a castle on top of it, sculpted with projection effects, painting my entire game room in magical feelings, and then it has every single movie clip from all six of the films, maybe heavily weighted towards the first one and two, and, you know, Hagrid call-outs and all that, I think it's going to feel like something is missing. And I hate that because this game is probably going to be completely magical and awesome looking. On the other hand, and we'll probably get into this more when we actually have information, the only really solid things we have that have come out is that the collector's edition will be unlimited in number and limited in time. And so looking back at every single release that Jersey Jack has ever put out, CEs to LEs to standards. They are all completely available. And with the exception of one game, they're all available below MSRP. He's taken a look at Godfather CEs recently. I got a friend looking to pick one up for under $9,000 for a $15,000 game. That is, theme aside, one of the greatest-looking pinball machines. Gameplay aside, one of the greatest-looking pinball machines I've ever seen. The gold wire forms. Come on. It's so gaudy. It's got them gold lions. I'm still fixated on them to this day. The topper that came with the Godfather CE has two little animatronic gangsters on top firing guns. Shout out to John Wick. There's knockers up in the topper. There's a flipper code, so it'll play, like, symphonies and Godfather themes and things. Like, impressive. I don't love the horse head shooter rod. I don't like how it fits in my hand. But that's an easy switch out to literally anything else. You know, if I could take an aside here. Let's take a side quest. Jersey Jacks CE shooter rods I don't like any of them really I don't like any of them that I've seen That I wouldn't rather have replaced with something else Godfather had the horse head I don't like how it fits in my hand It's just the ergonomics are weird I get that it's a severed horse head Totally fine with that Theme on point It's just like it feels kind of weird in my hand I don't like the Elton John CE topper It's that shooting star coming straight out I don't like how that feels It's not fun to really plunge the avatar shooter rod is a notched arrow that you're holding in your hand like those feathers and it's like also that while probably my favorite of the three doesn't quite fit great you know I like something a little more spherical if it's going to be you know part of something I'm shooting and I'm sure there's some kind of glowing organic orb material or something that could have sculpted something from the avatar universe maybe one of those wood sprites you know with some UV VFX or something on it that would fit in the hand a little better. Maybe I'll get to work and crank out something on my own. So we'll wait and we'll see. Is it going to be, what would it be? It would have to be the Quidditch knob, right? Looking back at Toy Story CE, we had the Pixar ball. Love how that feels. Hate how it held up, man. I've seen a lot of those where the paint's been chipping off on the outside. Maybe it needed a couple layers of clear coat on it to protect the graphics and things. But I would like to get something more spherical. I don't know. Maybe that's my own little spectrum-y issue is an ergonomic feel of pinball rods in my hand. Hands and rods. I'm going to let that go. But, yeah, so we'll wait and see. We have four days to see if this rumor pans out, which, oh, my God, incredible if that were to happen. Because here I am, you know, letting Jason Knapp lead me down the Primrose Path. It looks like this game I was expecting in the next two months or so, which would make my wallet absolutely happy. but it's going to come next week who knows what happened maybe they said you know what rather than trash all these playfields I think it's fine for now and then things may have changed maybe the word earlier in the week was two months and now it's like get these things out I will tell you this how long does Jack Guarnieri want me to keep my dollars in my pockets because we were told that back in March at TPF man it's been months and months since then and we got more and more games about to come out trough jam continues unabated and so it's going to be harder and harder jack to keep that dollar in my pocket and not get at least an extra value meal unless you bring something to us so i can't wait to see what is bringing i'll tell you who's watching this even closer than i am and that's the single guy over there running the pinball brothers right uh what would be the the spanish equivalent but los pollos hermanos los pinball hermanos something like that uh so they've got this game predator uh we know it's predator it's been rumored to be predator whatever uh they released uh that jungle themed picture or something and it's like yeah of course it's predator they released another teaser i guess this morning uh dude from pinball brothers was reading an in-universe comic book that one of the characters in the movie fine we know it's predator it looked like he had a playfield tipped up against him against the wall upside down of course subtle nod look we know predator's coming uh we're waiting to see it uh what's with the teasing man why edge us along this long um give us a date when we'll expect to see it and release it or sit there and wait for harry potter to come out six weeks to pass and then do it you know every now and then just say we're being reminded like hey we got a game coming out it's like dude we know like release or don't so maybe they've heard that there was going to be a two month delay now there's a little window and they decided to kind of rush this game out and then it looks like harry potter might be back on on the menu boys who knows what's going on i'll tell you this i looked at the pictures thanks Snap Arcade. And thanks, Cengiz. Retro Gengo, my partner over on WAP. He went ahead and posted. He's so excited for this game, you guys. He's already posted his comments and a little teaser video reaction and all this business already. So check it out at Retro Gengo. C-E-N-G-O on YouTube. You can go see that. He's posted on the WAP page too, which if you're not following, we are Pinball WAP. We have another podcast and we have an active Facebook page there. Regardless, a lot of enthusiasm for this. And as I was looking at this play field, I saw four holes cut out in the back and it looked like a gobble hole right there at the top middle that looks to me like the abba play field um now it seems like uh we've subsequently been reconfirmed that this is going to be a wide body abba absolutely is not probably because there wasn't enough content to fill a wide body for that machine um but i was thinking wouldn't it be terrible if this uh predator game ended up being just a reskin of the same layout um of abba god i didn't want that to be the case. I almost wanted it to, just because it would be such a tragic story. The final nail in the coffin for Pinball Brothers. But apparently this game's coming out. It's going to be a wide body. Hopefully it's not as floaty as some of the other games. And if you're an awesome game designer, man, it sure would be great if you could start working with Pinball Brothers and give them some more compelling layouts, because I don't even know who's doing them. Who did ABBA? Was it just kind of done in-house by some guy? Not a great layout, although compared to Spinal Tap. It's not the worst. So we'll wait and see. But apparently there is a release date that's picked internally. Nap even updated his arcade. It just went live here. I noticed that. So that will apparently be coming out at some point. Maybe these are going to jump on top of each other. Harry Potter is going to steamroller over anything that it releases that week. There's going to be a lot of pent-up demand. Circling back, there was one game from Jersey Jack, I want to make this point earlier, that is going for greater than MSRP, for sure. And that's Pirates of the Caribbean, right? And it's a wide-body game. It's got some of the best mechanisms in that upper play field. That's the boat going back and forth and shoots the ball over the other ship. I love that so much. That makes the game for me. The ramp to get up there is a little difficult. Some people might say, you know, the layout will tire with additional plays. I don't care. That's a fun game for me. It's a fun game for a lot of people. Not the best game out there, but really compellingly good. The reason it's expensive, of course, is because there's not that many of them. What had happened back in the day, the game came out, no one bought it, didn't have the triple spinning ring, whatever, code never got finished, all that business. Didn't sell well, so they didn't produce a lot of them. And so that created scarcity as time went on. The COVID demand thing happened, and then the resources dried up. Prices are floating back down, but it's still the game that's hard to get. but the outlier that it is is driven because of the low numbers that exist out there um so when it comes to harry potter given that the collector's edition will be unlimited given that there's a ton of demand for this game if this thing sells 5 000 or even like 2500 ces there's going to be so many of them out there that even though this is a much more compelling theme and much more in demand and hopefully they learned a lesson and put a ton of code in here and hopefully they learned the other lesson they completed the code um you know this game as stellar as it is there's going to be a lot of them and there's going to be a lot available secondary markets so i kind of think i kind of think if i do miss the train to hog hogsmeade um at the jump i think i could pick this up again later down the road which is a win for us man uh you know so pay the fee and you know pay to play paint your game room and magical sparkles and then make more of them available for me later or convince me to get the thing by making it like it is in my head, man, because, wow, I got some ideas. And if it comes to fruition, if there's projection mapping, I'm going to have to find something to turn and burn and sell so I can get me one of these. Let me know your thoughts, Don's Bimble Podcast, gmail.com, or Discord, or Facebook, or anywhere else I'm at. And give me that Spotify five-star review. Be a bro. All right, a couple other things coming up. D&D, Topper, Locked DLC is the jam here. So through the Stern Insider Connected app, there's a way to track your character somehow. I haven't even gotten there to find it. It's so hard to find anything in that app. But apparently it's been revealed that much like the Ghost Rider bonus character that came with Venoms, Pro Premium LE, unlocked with the topper, there will be an extra character class unlocked in Dungeons & Dragons, which I love that because I love this game and I want more content for it. So they're going, well, who knows what they're doing, but it seems like this will be a topper exclusive. if it is, say, Topper exclusive in there. And so essentially what they're doing is they're selling this piece of hardware, and one of the baked-in values for it is unlockable code. We saw that kind of going back to Godzilla and so forth, where there's an extra mode or something that comes if you purchase the Topper. And, like, that's your price per entry. The problem is not everybody, even if they have the money and the wherewithal, they don't have the space in their game rooms for a Topper. So they purchased this thing, and their ceiling won't allow them to put it on there. I see people go as far as cutting holes in their ceiling and re-drywalling everything and painting it just to have extra topper room but how does somebody that really loves the game and wants the DLC access it that doesn't have a way to even attach the topper people have been talking about putting them on the floor as bottomers and Spooky Pinball even includes extra wire harnessing to allow that for their Cheryl topper for Evil Dead so you can still put it on the ground and let it bite your toes as you're playing or stick it on a wall on a shelf or something, which is kind of cool too. But I have an idea, and I think this would be relatively easy to implement, and that's by selling these DLCs and toppers maybe a la carte, right? Where if you purchase the topper, you get the bundle, or you get the DLC, you get the extra content, and you get the topper, the physical topper machine. Put it on top of your game, and it's awesome. Now, if you don't have the room for it, but you still want the DLC, maybe there's a $300 to $400, maybe just get the board or something, the topper board that comes with it, the little node board that's in there. And maybe you just install that, kind of like how they install the extra board on the speaker lights. And then that unlocks the additional content, and you don't have to purchase the entirety of the topper if it doesn't work for you. Would that cannibalize topper sales? Would there be people that have room for the topper that wouldn't buy the topper but would just buy the $400 extra code? I don't think so, because if you've got room for it, You're going to buy the whole bundle, right, because the topper is going to be awesome. And if you're in for $400, you probably would be into, you know, getting the topper as well. The other option would be to buy the topper, disassemble it just to get that board out, and then leave the box of severed parts in your closet, but then you'd still be paying like $1,500 to $2,000. It seems like that would kind of suck. So I think a through line here, just from my own brain, would be, you know what, But if you can't afford the entirety of the topper, maybe we'll sell you, like, maybe just the mimic chest for the play field, like was originally intended, and a node board that you can install so you get the extra content and maybe you get a little moving figure or something in there. Just some thoughts there. Some late night dawn thoughts that I had the other night. What else do we have to talk about? Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. Do you want a pinball deal? Have you seen the Memorial Day sale From American Pinball Remember them This has been dropping from distributors So they're doing the deals again If you just can't wait to get your Berrios BBQ Challenge But you were $500 short from being able to make the purchase Well you're in luck this weekend Because there are distributors Including Jeff over at Jeff at MadPinball.com A friend and sponsor of the show You can get them from there You can save yourself $500 off of a Berrios BBQ Challenge and $500 off of everybody's favorite game from American Pinball Hot Wheels, probably the best one for locations. It's not the worst-playing game. It seems to hold up pretty well. I think more so than GTF. That's probably their tank. There's a little bit more money off of Legends of Valhalla Deluxe Edition. I still forget what the tiers are. I think that's one of the upper-end ones. $59.99, so $6,000, I think, total for that game. The big surprise, and also not a surprise, was the Galactic Tank Force Signature Edition for now $79.95. Man, can you believe this? So under $8,000 for this game. Now this game has a storied history. From what I remember, 200 of these were made and put in boxes. Last time I was at the factory, I think there was 45 of them sitting there in boxes ready to go. The Signature Edition, right? This was some lofty goals that were set in the minds of the people putting these games together. So if you wanted the tank version, right, they had that top-end edition. And hint here, foreshadowing, Morgan Friedman voice, nobody wanted a tank edition. Nobody wants a pinball machine that folds up into a tank because you literally never fold up a pinball machine ever, unless you're moving it. And then if you're moving it, do you really want a turret on the backbox that's going to make it hard to get through doorways and around corners and upstairs. Just a really weird, strange idea. I get that it was a great idea, you know, but not every idea needs to be put into production. Regardless, 200 were made for even more thousands of dollars, around $15,000 or $16,000 is what these were commanding. That's $1,000 more than Jersey Jack's inflated prices out the door for their top-end editions, and you don't have to fold them up to get, you know, full utility out of the toppers. Godfather Topper has two little animatronic guys on there Elton John turns your game room into a light show The topper for Galactic Tank Force Both the top end and the signature edition Sits on the back of the backbox Where you don even see it What the heck man You paying You don even get a topper you can see Oh unless you fold it up which you never do And I asked early on, like, is the backbox motorized? And when you power down the game, it comes down and, like, comes up when you turn on? No. That would have been kind of cool if it did. It would be a lot cooler if you did. So whatever. $16,000. And what you got was signatures, literally, all over the apron, which is kind of cluttered looking. It's not a good look. I don't like it. I would prefer that they were not there, actually. Also, they took some fluorescent paint and painted all the plastic sculpts in the game, 3D-printed sculpts, which, you know, fine. It does look cool. Oh, and then they advertised that they put Titan bands on the entirety of the gameplay field, which looked really good but also cost about $25. so what in the world were you really getting with the signature edition and the answer was not much uh and sixteen thousand dollars so so uh just to skip to the end here spoiler alert they did not sell well um because of course they didn't there was no value baked in there for the consumer at all and it seemed almost insulting to offer that game for that price um you know as much as i like my friends over there at american pinball some strange decisions were made now it's their company. They can make whatever decisions they want. But yeah, I wasn't going to fork over $16,000 for that game, 15-16. Well, you don't have to anymore. If you really want that game, that game needs a new shooter rod, man. It's so sticky. It's not satisfying. If you want a Galactic Tank Force Signature Edition with all the belts and whistles, you can get it for $8,000 now if you order through a distributor, which is awesome. Even more awesome, and I just noticed this online, and I posted a link to this, If you go on Pinside right now, Nordman, Dennis Nordman, and one of the other people involved in design also have a bunch of these games sitting around in boxes. They're selling for $7,000. So for the price of a Stern Pro, which probably has better game playing code and is going to hold up better, you can get yourself a new in-box Signature Edition Galactic Tank Force. If you really want to pump fudge with Sonya Blade, that's a way that you can do it. Now, I considered getting this game early on. I looked at getting a show game from Kingpin yeah Kingpin their distributor near me they had some show games for sale discounted rate still they were more than $8,000 for sure and I had a Halloween at the time and I was just looking for like I don't know $5,800 of trading credit towards it and so I was going to trade my Halloween and like $2,000 or $3,000 for a Galactic Tank Force just to have the thing get a fresh new game in. I thought it'd be kind of fun. They pretty much told me, like, no way. I think they already had a couple of Halloweens they were trying to sell used. So that just didn't happen. And the price that they wanted, they wanted me to pay like $4,000 or something plus trade my Halloween just to get a used show game of GTF. And then I talked this over with my wife. She said, no way you're bringing that goofy game into the house. And so it just kind of ended there. So there was a point in time where I really wanted to get, genuinely, really wanted to get a Galactic Tank Force just to have it. And now that I've played it on location and such, I think they're playing better now than they used to once they get adjusted and the balls aren't leaping over wire forms. But I still can't get over the shooter rod, man. It's just not satisfying. It's very sticky there. It feels like it's almost like an aluminum rod instead of a steel, so it needs some oil or something because the skill shots are just not repeatable. Not just a problem with GTF. It's also a problem with barbecue as well. hopefully if anybody has those get your shooter rod switched out and then it shouldn't really be a problem seems like an easy fix speaking of fix gosh $7,000 is where these things landed and I mean that's probably where the value needs to be if it was cheaper than $7,000 I think even I may consider it at that point if it's $7,000 or more I'm definitely not considering it so yeah that's probably fair market price for this thing I'm even starting to look at Godfather CEs now as much as, like I don't love the gameplay but I love them Gold Lions it looks like such a cool game man, I love the topper I love a lot of what they put in there but as they trickle down south of $9,000 I'm kind of like giving them a little bit of a side eye, know what I mean? So that is as much of the pinball news as I have right now, I really want to get this rumor out to you guys. One other cool thing happened this week and I got to talk with one of my new friends from New Jersey, Alan Lawrence. He's a part of the Perfect Storm Gaming stream that happens every week on YouTube at the Perfect Storm Gaming channel, among others. He's part of the crew over there, so they're really into classic arcades, right, and particularly these multi-cades. And so they'll do a thing where it's essentially a bunch of guys from New Jersey on a couch playing games and streaming the gameplay as a three-hour live stream and just talking to whoever shows up in chat. I was on the show once. I was on there for like two hours, man. We just had conversations ranging all over the place while they're playing classic games. Now, Alan and some of the others are getting into pinball now, too. You know, and I love that there's this crossover because I love arcades. I've looked at getting multi-cades as well. I, you know, when I was at the Family Entertainment Center at, you know, 11 and 12 years old, man, I'm playing Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, and then the whole line of Bally Williams pinball games across the wall. So, like, I come from both worlds. And then, of course, at home, it's much easier to get into console gaming, arcade one-ups, and those sorts of things. And even full-size arcade machines are still cheaper than the cheapest pinball machine. But now I've graduated over to pinball, and I'm coming back from that world. And then here's people that are really into the arcade world coming over into pinball as well. I think it's a great blend, and I love that there's room for both of us. So I had an interview slash just talk that we recorded. Patreon members, you've already heard this next bit. I'm going to go ahead and drop in our conversation here. He just got back from Allentown's Pin Fest. I was not there, so he gave me the blow-by-blow on everything through his perspective as somebody from the arcade world that's kind of coming into pinball now. So that's interesting. So let's give a rousing welcome to Alan Lawrence. And I'll go ahead and drop that interview right here. Alan, dude, thanks for joining, man. I really appreciate it. Thank you, sir. Yeah, so as I mentioned in the intro that I recorded subsequent to this, Alan appears in the Perfect Storm Gaming Stream weekly, Wednesdays, 8 p.m., where it's playing classic games and talking and shooting the crap with whoever shows up, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we're just a bunch of guys from New Jersey. Got together. We have a couple different multi-cades, and we simultaneously play some games and periodically have guests and just have fun, just talk about, like, Gen X stuff and video games, interests, sometimes politics. It goes everywhere, UFOs. Oh, I love it. up perfect yeah um i love that there's kind of this parallel world between like arcades and like classic gaming and people that have you know video games in their game rooms and then like the pinball people and then there's like tons of co-mingling like i i i have a foot in each game room i believe but you guys you guys have these big multi-cades that i'm like in awe of i still need to add one at some point to my game room oh totally we gotta talk because it's it's like you probably see in any hobby like where you make the joke about like model trains and pinball. It's all like personalities and little fighting and cabinet makers saying who's the best and kind of talking trash. It's a lot of drama, but it's all fun. And we all love games. It kind of unifies us. On that point, you know what I did today? I'm on a RoboCop kick. And so today I watched a long play of the Data East RoboCop arcade game. Do you remember playing that? You know what? I was just playing it last week on my arcade cabinet. I love, Don, I love when he takes out the gun. That sound is amazing. Yes. The best. In my mind, I think the last time I really saw that game was when I was 12 years old. And I remember the graphics being so mind-blowing. And I remember the NES version of that game was such a step down as far as combat because the explosions were so great. And then I was watching it again today, and I'm like, this could have been an NES game. What the heck? I was so blown away by it back then. Yeah, yeah. Thank you for your cooperation every time he kills somebody. Oh, the music, yeah. Remember Ed 209? Yes. The robot adversary, and there was like a little shooting gallery kind of interlude between the levels. I love that because there was like a – There's nothing about that. The targeting reticle or whatever was just like those two lines from the movie. And that blew me away as a kid that it was like that. And then like the home version didn't have that. but yeah there was and i have particularly fond memories so where my my dad's business was they had a local it was basically a deli we'd go there for snacks and like a sub sandwich but they they always had two games kind of in the corner two arcades and this was kind of late 80s early 90s and they would change every once in a while so uh robocop was there do you remember a game called strider by capcom are you kidding me yeah like i mean i grew up i love that game i grew up with the NES game, and then when I happened to cross the arcade version, I was like, this game's incredible. This is where it came from. Yeah, that game's awesome. Yeah, I think it came from a Japanese manga comic. Yeah, it was like Cyber Ninja Action Man. Yeah, and awesome effects and music. You know what? The beauty of it, I never could beat it in the arcade. And the beauty of emulation, they have this thing called Safe State, so you can actually freeze the game and save it, and then come back to it. So through the beauty of technology and save state, I was actually able to beat that game. And it was like, oh, my gosh. I would have spent like 50 bucks on a game in the arcade and probably wouldn't have beaten it anyway. Oh, I remember one weekend I committed myself with an NES emulator in my save states, and I played through all three Ninja Gaiden titles in their entirety just with save states. There's no way eight-year-old me could ever do that, man. That game was nuts. But I was able to do it. I appreciate the save state. And I wonder if we'd ever see that in pinball. Like, if you're having, like, a really good ball one, and you're, like, you cradle up, and you're, like, you know what? I'm saving this game. I want to come back later and pick up right from this spot. Because whenever I have, like, a great ball one, like, ball two and three just drain, it's like, damn it. I was building up to something finally. Yeah, and then just come back at, like, a better mood or a better state to, like, just jump in there. That would be cool. Yeah, so D&D has, like, a save, right? That's maybe the entree into it, I heard. We got like the video game-ation of pinball now going on, and I absolutely love it. You know, it kicked off with Stern with Venom, right? The idea being that you could play a game, build levels tied to your account, and then, you know, it would save your progress. And when you beat a boss, like it stayed beaten. And so you could keep coming back, logging in, and slowly work your way all the way to the end of the game, beat the guy, unlock a character, dude, and then start back over again. So much fun, man. And for a game that didn't have a ton of substance otherwise, I played that more than I played Foo Fighters. Yeah. Do you still own a Venom or not? No, no. Venom was part of the rotation program. That's right, yeah. I had this idea that I would buy a new game, play it for three months, and then sell it and buy the next new Stern and just have a rotating slot. It's grown completely out of control. But for a couple of games, it was working there. The problem is that the code is taking so long to develop and mature that if you do that, you end up selling a game when it's still in its infancy and the rest of the code of the game isn't even there yet. So I've taken a different approach now and trying to keep them around a little bit longer just so I can see the code mature. But yeah, super fun game. And then it walks so D&D could run now. Yeah, did you buy the... I heard they just released a topper and a shooter rod or something like that. Did you make one of those purchases I heard maybe? I bought the shooter rod. I had to because it looks like a swollen, engorged testicle. It's like the symbiote egg or whatever with, like, the goo coming out of it and the tendrils. But, like, to me, it looks like, yeah, a swollen man egg. And that was too insane to let go. So, yeah, I purchased that. It's sitting next to me in my toolbox. Eventually, I'll put it on something. But, man, yeah. That was, oh, you know what? You know what? That would go great on Avatar, I think. Yeah. Because it feels good in the hand. It feels good in the hand. Nice and swollen egg. So instead of the arrow shooter rod and the CE, I'm going to throw the Venom on there. Yeah, that can kind of land in Pandora and exist. When you come into the Pandora Park in Animal Kingdom, they got that weird, like, God, I love that. Seed pod that shoots the water. Yeah, yeah. If you hit that park at a certain time of year when it's actually open late enough that it's dark, the whole thing is bioluminescent. They even painted the pavement with fluorescent inks and things. And so the whole place really glows at night. Not that most people ever see it because the park closes at 7 p.m. and it's already still light out. But there's a couple times a year when it's open a little bit late and time change hasn't happened yet, and it's magical, man. Yeah, I think, I don't know, was that because of COVID? I remember it being open later. They just kind of, or for the animals? What was the reason behind that? I mean, Animal Kingdom is usually – this is totally off topic of pinball, and I love it. Animal Kingdom is usually the earliest park to open because the animals tend to be more active first thing in the morning. And then there's no fireworks show there because of animals, so there's no need to, like, stay open until, like, 8 or 9. They'll funnel everybody over to Epcot or Magic Kingdom for those night events where there's alcohol being served and things. And Animal Kingdom just functions as more of, like, this daytime park, which is a shame because it's designed with great lighting all throughout the park. Not that most people will ever see it. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Speaking of great lighting, JJP, am I right? Yes. I love JJP. Yeah, JJP. And I think just my pinball journey in general, I've been just admiring games. I go to the various pinball arcades, so I love Silver Cades. It's in Asbury Park, so it's got about over 100 pins. No new sterns. I guess because Jersey Jack and they had like a special relationship. I could see that. So they have all the Jersey Jacks. They have all the Bally Williams, early Sterns, and then like the real old like electromechanical. And then like from the gambling, you know, pinball legal days from like the, I think their oldest one they have down there is like 1940s. It's all wood and beautiful. But yeah, so I hang out there a lot as soon as like, you know, often I can get there. Game Gallery in Langhorne, that's a great place that has new sterns. But, yeah, I love the JGP. Haven't gotten any pinball yet, so I've been, like, salivating over different games. Yes. I've been, like, looking at Godzilla. I haven't pulled the trigger on anything yet. Nothing. I mean, being an arcade guy, I mean, I remember being young, preteen, myself, at the Family Entertainment Center, you know, mini golf place. And, of course, there's a whole arcade, you know, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, like the two standbys there. And then there was that wall of Bally Williams against the back. And I seem to split my time between both of them. Were you kind of the same way? Did you dabble in pinball too back in the arcade days? I did, yeah. So the 80s had some great arcades near me. And I used to remember they would have a section with the arcade games, like Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter II. And then along the wall, they usually would have five or six pins. One of them I remember fondly is Terminator 2. Okay, yeah. that was just when the game came out. I loved it. It was like, you know, Arnold's voice and the gun shooter rod. So yeah, I definitely kind of went to both sides. And then in college, um, my college, it was in Pittsburgh and they actually, and I don't recall, they had arcade games, but they had pinball games. So I guess maybe it was kind of ancient towards the Midwest. It was more that pinball love. I remember they had, they had medieval madness. they had Indiana Jones Pinball Adventures and this was just when they were coming out new so I spent hours with my friends just playing those in college. God, those games were probably like $1,600 or something back then. It was so fun. It was like everyone wanted it was all about like they weren't super complex and it wasn't really a story so everyone was just kind of shooting towards the multiball and tearing down the castle or just watching the simple animations with Indiana Jones but we enjoyed it. It was fun. And up until recently, I mean, the games were slowly transitioning, but they were still, like the Spike One days when Stern's Kiss was out and Walking Dead a little before that, where it was still like dot matrix display. Games were still kind of of that era. And then all of a sudden, there was a switch when they're like, you know what? Let's put LCD screens in them. And I think Jersey Jack kicked the door in on that, coming out with basically a widescreen television for Wizard of Oz. And then really just kind of changed like how a pinball machine can be. Make it more engaging. And then that's when rules seemed to be much more deeper. Modes became more of a thing. And that kind of kicked the door open to all this thing. And that's kind of when I got back into it, or at least into it at this level. Like, check out these games that are being made. These are phenomenal things now. As far as gameplay, replay value, and everything. Again, those video game concepts that we've known forever are now coming in, and I love that. Yeah. Yeah, I kind of got out of the arcade scene. I was doing consoles for a while because consoles just advanced so much. But I just remember kind of going back to an arcade and seeing like a Guns and Roses. I was like, holy crap, like this is beautiful. The cabinet, the sound, the artwork, it was just all tied together. So I was kind of comparing that versus my earlier recollection of Indiana Jones, which was fun, but it just advanced so much with the lighting and everything else. Oh, yeah. So do you have a game room at home with arcades now? Well, I have one multi-cade, and actually it's been a journey. And I don't know about you, Don, but, like, I get into a hobby. What I get first is never, like, the final version of whatever that is. So I did that with, like, ponds and everything else. My wife, like, makes fun of me. It's just me. Because you buy something and you learn about it through buying it and playing it, and then you come to the realization of what you really want, but then you have to get rid of or evolve the first version. So my first arcade cabinet, I got, like a lot of guys and gals, got into it through COVID, just wanting something at home with access to a lot of games and nostalgia and everything else. So I ordered a cabinet from Arcades Are Fun. I know it's a funny, silly name, but basically it's this big old MDF cabinet with a four-player kind of joysticks and buttons and, you know, a TV screen in there. And it's just connected to a tower, a little, you know, PC box with a 3060 graphics card connected to a game drive. And I enjoyed it, but then I started modding it and putting different light gun kind of sensors in it and using different light guns from what was being offered. And I kind of Frankensteined it. I'm like, I started to, like, I like this aspect of it. It's a little too big. I wanted to be able to fit it through doorways. So in my journey, and also with the best drive to use, so in my journey I then got to know the founder of a company called Integrum Retro, which is an arcade builder based in Maine, Jason Baker. And he's really cool because he's a programmer by training, so he makes the drives of the software. And just this last year got into arcade cabinet building. so it's like you know the whole apple thing where you're integrating software and hardware and it you know the buttons light up according to like what buttons are active for a given game like street fighter six buttons light up that's the color it's really cool so like okay i want this but i have to figure out how i get rid of my arcades are fun caps so i'm like so i throw it on arcades are thrown on facebook marketplace and you know you throw something on there people like don get it They think it an arcade one cab They offering me for it You know this is something you paying give or take dollars for And it you know frustration after frustration and low and hemming and hawing and you know me kind of getting excited And finally, someone came across and kind of knew what he was looking for, knew the value of it, and came and picked it up. And I was like, yes, I am on. I'm free to get my next cab in it. Because what I was scared of, I wound up with two multi-cades in my basement. Right, yeah, exactly. You know, or one you can't move. Yeah, no, I know how that can be. Yeah, not a good choice. I went in pretty early on in a virtual pinball cabinet, and I got an Ultra VP from Rec Room World, which I love. Because I never had a satisfying experience with virtual pinball, like everywhere I tried it. And, like, this was the first one that I found that actually had some pretty good, you know, one-to-one integration. and there's a full library of 1,400 games in there and different versions of all kinds of stuff. The whole Bally Williams catalog, stuff that's rare and hard to find. Big Bang Bar is on there, for instance. An old Capcom game that was made in very limited quantities. It's great to have those there. Hard to price it, though, if you want to sell. Don't hold their value like a regular game does, though. But I think it's a good compliment to having everything else. I can just go over there and play Frontier if you want, you know, that old game that looks like Charlie Daniels is on there or something, and play with the crickets in the background, dude, love it. Yeah. Oh, it's a funny story, so compliment to you. So, again, during COVID, I'm like, I want, you know, I'd like to have a V-Pin, wouldn't it be cool? Because the whole idea to play, you know, as you know, multiple games on one cabinet. So I'm searching around, searching around, and I'm Googling, I'm Googling, you know, I come up with a couple different manufacturers. And then your podcast shows up when you review the virtual pinball game from RecuWorld. Oh, man. I think that's one of the first podcasts of Don I listened to. I'm like, oh, and you went into really in-depth. So I'm like, okay, this is one of the contenders here. Episode number nine, I think it was. Yeah. Yeah. That was fun. You were there. I'm like, yeah. Yeah, I really wanted to cover that because, like, you can't – it's hard to know until you see it in person. Like, the graphics are super HD, man. I mean, it looks like you're staring at a real cabinet. And, like, most people's experience with virtual pinball is, like, the lower price, you know, more consumer models, the flat packs you put together and things. And they're just not satisfying at all, you know. And so I think virtual pinball got a bad rap just because people haven't played a good version of it. And I have one. And I just wanted to kind of shout its praises and give my experience out there for other people like me that were looking for something decent, you know. So there's another guy, I think, out in Australia that's got a decent cabinet too. But outside of that, they're just overpriced. And, you know, they've got to be, like, just perfect because, you know, the feedback has to be, you know, close to one-to-one as possible. And you don't get that until you're, like, you know, putting in high-end components and things. But yay, virtual pins. Yeah, yeah, yeah, very cool. So, yeah, I got a virtual pin. I got a multi-cade. So now it's like, okay, I'd love to have a real pen or a couple. So I have some space. I've actually – I'll have to send you a picture. I've actually had this little side room in my basement, so I kind of semi-finished it. So it's not the biggest room. It kind of looks like, you know, like that Darth Vader place, that Dick White circular room that comes up and down. His little ball of solitude, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's like a little room of solitude. So I'm like – I made it kind of zen-like. and has just enough room. I think I could fit in like three pins in there. Oh, perfect. Just have enough room to like, you know, like negotiate another couple feet behind me. Well, I'll say the market right now seems to be a great time if you're looking to buy a game because the prices are swinging as low as I've seen them since COVID. So it's like those high peaks and everything. And I think we're reaching a point where, you know, if tariffs continue and we start running into supply chain issues and new supply of games seems to be taking longer to get out there and prices need to be raised, I think we might start seeing that pull up the used game prices as well because there's just not going to be... New things are going to cost so much more and the fact that you'll probably have to wait longer, it'll be easy to turn and just pick up something used. People are dumping stuff right now because they know Harry Potter's coming out and some of the other bangers from Stern and things. So there's kind of a glut on the market. So if you want to just kind of walk into... People are giving away Guns N' Roses L.E.s right now. You cannot move one of those at all. And so I owned one of those new in box. It was a phenomenal game. You know, light show for a music game to have that many songs in it, and every song has its own choreography. So it's very much a playable experience. You know, gameplay-wise, I mean, it's not, you know, it doesn't play as fast as Elton John for sure. You know, it's not a Godzilla or killer or anything. But it is a spectacle to have. And if you can get one for like $5,500, I mean, my God, come on. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, for that game. So you were just at Allentown, the show there. That was my first pinball show ever. Okay, how was that, walking in and just seeing all the new games, all the people here? Yeah, so I was trying to go to Pinball on the Beach. I'm like, should I go? Should I go? So, well, you know, you have to buy a flight ticket and this and that and take time off. And so I wanted to see that. I knew the designers were going to be there. I think, yeah, you were going to be here. It would be a cool time to meet some folks. It was a cool show. Yeah. Yeah. And then I did the fork out all the money, too, for travel. So I'm like, okay, I'm going to shoot for Allentown. It's within driving distance. So me and myself, you know, took the lonely drive out a couple hours. And so you've been to Allentown, right? Oh, yeah. It's kind of like an old, maybe post-industrial city and transformation and such. So there's these big old buildings of brick, and there's like a farmer's market, and then this exhibit hall or something like that. So I'm like, is this the right place? I'm like, I don't even know what I'm looking for. So I'm like driving around, driving around. And my colleague Vito from Perfect Storm Gaming was coming too, so I was going to meet him there later. So I'm like, I don't know about this. So I make it there. I think I'm in the right spot. I park. I kind of get in. And already I got there. So I went there on a Friday. So I got there around 10, 3, 11. And already, yeah, people were packing into the entrance there. And already people were excited. Different people, walks to life, old people, young people. And I'm like, wow. It didn't hit me how popular pinball is. I don't see that love anywhere near New York City, New Jersey area, et cetera. So it's like, oh, my gosh, all these people love pinball. So I get in there. It's busy. There's a lot of people there. Yeah, man, it's wild. It's like my first show, Texas Pinball Festival. I just happened to be in Dallas for spring break, and I'm like, hey, there's a pinball show of all things going on. Let's go check that out, I guess. and not realizing it's the biggest pinball show of the freaking year. And so walking into this area, it was like I just stumbled through a portal into this world that wasn't as big as I thought it was. And then that's where I played Godzilla for the first time. I walked by and I was like, I've played a Godzilla pinball machine before. Why did they remake it? That's stupid. And then I was like, oh, I guess I'll play it. And I was like, oh my God, the building's falling down. I'm sticking magnets to make a Godzilla here. What the hell's going on? you know shots are flowing from one to another holy crap how do i get one of these you know so like uh what nude games did you get to play while you were there so i got in and what smacking like in front of my face was the king kong exhibit boom but they had like oh there was only one one game or something and the line was like you know look at 20 people deep or something like that. I heard it was like an hour long consistently. Yeah. Yeah. So I tried at different times in the day. I just wasn't able to get onto it. So I said, okay, I'll, I'll try later, you know, my kind of first coming in, I want to play Dune. I, I'm a big Dune fan. I love the new movies. Um, I love Hans Zimmer. He's the, you know, the soundtrack composer. I want to see it. I love kind of the culture, you know, David David Van Es from, from, uh, Barrels of Fun and, and, uh, and Brian Savage, just listening to them and the new Tested. Yeah, isn't that cool? YouTube video of it. I love that guy too from Tested. Adam Savage, yeah. Adam Savage, thank you. So I make my way over to Dune, and it's like, wow, this is beautiful, shiny thing, beautiful graphics. You see all the cast characters on the back glass, and I'm like, I get in line. I'm talking with people. I'm excited. I'm asking people, like, are you going to buy it? So I was just trying to make conversation, let the time pass. People who are playing, they do these things where they kind of do multiple games, and they might get their friends passing by to kind of jump in. So we're like, okay, come on. Oh, geez. And some people are really – there's some obviously really good pinball players at this show. So they're taking, they're like GCing it and everything. I don't know if it has a GC yet, but they're doing really well. And then unfortunately, that was some of the pictures I sent. They had the little worm. The worm had a little temporary kerfuffle. It kind of locked up a little bit, so they had to jack up the play field and fix it. It only took about like 15 minutes, but I didn't know. I was like, it's going to be an hour. It's going to be two hours. So I said, let me walk around. So kind of walked around a little bit with some older games and then came back. Funny thing, in my line of sight, guess who was in the corner kind of chatting around with a pink Spooky Shelf shirt? Oh, no way. Everybody's favorite podcaster. Wow. Yeah. Kenny was there. So it was so funny. And they were just talking to Spooky Lou because the spooky exhibit was right on the other side of Coinstar or whatever the guy said. Yeah, Joe, friend of the show, cool guy. Yeah, yeah, so I was like, oh, I know that guy. So I'm waiting and waiting. Another probably half hour passes, and so I get on it. I'm all excited, and, dude, I last like 30 seconds. It's so bad. Oh, God, I hate that, yeah. It was pathetic, but I enjoyed it. It flipped well. The flippers were powerful. I did have an opportunity so right next to it was Labyrinth I've never played in my area, in New Jersey area, there really isn't a Labyrinth that I could find at an arcade or pinball bar, so I was like dude, I want to play Labyrinth so I got to do a little comparison and Labyrinth I like too, and it was obviously an example of a fully developed barrels of fun game yeah, that goes pretty far along now Yeah. And, you know, I know I enjoyed. I never I mean, I didn't get a chance to do the worm back to Dune. I didn't get a chance to have the worm come up or anything like that, but just shot well. The lighting was great. You could see where it was going with. And like there was a sequence when you're trying to kind of shoot the ornithopter, that little flying dragonfly thing that they have in the movie. And it kind of shows up in the black back glass. I love that. I'm a big, obviously an arcade guy, but I love how they integrated that back. I mean, you take a back panel that's usually just a decal, static, and you turn it into a screen, and then you put interactivity on there because as those shots line up, the ornithopter will kind of line up with that shot there, and then that's where you go to damage it. Yeah. I love that. I don't know about you, John. Yeah. Oh, go ahead. Just the vista it gives you, too. It extends the view of the cabinet back there. and I've asked them like is this going to be just a barrels of fun thing like do this every game they're like we don't know if we'll do it on every game but so far they have and I think they need to continue that because it's amazing I love that effect yeah and it's kind of a class leader too like no other company is utilizing a screen right there yet you know was that a that concept was from a prior like Deep Roots yeah What was the source of that? I think it's left over from the John Papadiuk era or something. He was the one that did Circus Voltaire and put the dot matrix in the back area back there. And did some graphics. And then I think he was involved with Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland, like the failed game from Deep Root, soon to be from... AKA Raza. Yeah, soon to be from Dutch Pinball Exclusive, probably, against all good advice. But that concept was there. And so it might have, I think the seed may have been planted, but, like, this is the first time we've seen it integrated, like, to this level. I mean, I think it would add detail to every game, man. Yeah. I think there was an aftermarket mod somebody came up with for Twilight Zone, actually, that put a little screen or something back there. And I got to play it once at the Pintastic in New Robert Englunds. It was awesome. I think Interactive Pinball was the guy that did it. Got a Cam Loops British Columbia. But, yeah, like, super awesome. So Labyrinth was fun, right? A lot of little characters popping out. Labyrinth was fun. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed Dune. I would really like to purchase Dune. Again, the code's, as everyone knows, super early, so you couldn't really assess it. Did the screen still say, like, pre-approval may change? Okay, so that's like the very first iteration of the code. And I just played one out on location again. First time I played the game was at the factory, and then this was my first time on location. It still had that early code, and so it's essentially all music, no call-outs. And I talked to David David Van Es after that, and there's updated code already out, and there's more coming soon. But he kind of walked me through kind of the concepts of where they're going to take this game, you know, over the year. And it sounds really exciting. So it's hard to really judge the game now based on that code. But, you know, judge it based on the shots, the layout, the diverters, and some of the mechanisms that are in there. but I think they're going to implement everything in a way that makes a lot more sense it's more exciting I'll talk about Evil Dead if you want next did David or anyone mention are they going to get an actor or so from Dune to do call outs or are they going to have a British person that sounds really cool do call outs or anything like that? I'm fairly certain they're getting authentic voices oh my goodness I can't wait they're still working out details but that was the sense I was left with okay I'm excited so yeah I asked Brian I sent an email because I was just so jazzed I'm like are you going to get the full soundtrack from Hans Zimmer because like I love the soundtrack because I'm a big Hans Zimmer like Inception and Mission Impossible 2 so yeah you got to put all that in the game as well I think with knowing these guys and the type of product they're trying to put out, if it doesn't get in there, it's because it's not available. It's not because they're, oh, we don't want to pay for that. I mean, if it's available, they're going to get it. So, yeah, I'm excited to see where Labyrinth lands here in the next, it might just be four to six months from now until we start seeing some major awesome code updates for it. And we've still got a topper coming that we haven't seen. Probably it's going to have a worm. Hopefully it's doing something. There's going to be a shooter rod as well, so some accessories are coming too. So, but yeah, people are excited about the game. Selling well. I talked to some distributors. So good on them. And I can't wait to see what they've got coming up next. What did you think of Evil Dead? Oh, so Evil Dead was, again, on the upside. So I went there. Oh, my God, Don, they're putting up some numbers there. So I was like, oh, this one guy, he must have been playing it forever. He was a pro. So waited patiently, got on it. No, it was great. It's a wide body, but the play field seems to be standard body. But it's kind of like the double barrel kind of takes up the wide body space or something like that. But, yeah, I'm not into horror pins. But I do enjoy the funny, campy Bruce Campbell. I've seen the movies. My brother actually, my brother, when I was like 10, introduced me to him. And I'm like, that's actually really funny. and like Army of Darkness, which I think that was like a follow-up movie or something. Yeah. So I get it. Probably not the best, yeah, like not my deal. So I didn't jump on it day one. But, yeah, fun game, you know, with the mechs moving around. So, again, I sucked at that game. Didn't do too well. But I saw, yeah, I would just love to get that in a quiet room and really play it. I think at these pinball shows they should sell like a suck pass, you know, So if you're obviously not great, at least you get to play twice or something. Exactly, yeah. Because somebody can tie up the game for 40 minutes trying to set a GC, some world record holder, and then you get up there and it's like, oh, three and I'm done. And it's like at least be like, oh, I got the suck pass. It's like a special assistance pass or something. Like if you can't take stairs, you get a skip the line pass or something. Yeah, exactly. Like when you get a new driver, they slap that like in New Jersey, like a new driver sticker. Yeah, just like give me some. Yeah, like a new player sticker to put on your back so people realize. They're like, okay, let this guy go again. He's not going to take that long. And I could just feel the eyes on me, and it's still like, you know, it looks at disapproval. It's like, oh, my gosh. But I enjoyed it. So I got to meet Spooky Luke. and like a dummy, Don, and this is, I texted you about this. So I'll skip some of the games real quick, but just to tell you a story related to Spooky and Even Dead. So, you know, Vito arrived. So we're like, ah, you know, let's see if we can interview some folks too. So, you know, we get into that mode. So I'm like, the idea pops in my head. I'm like, oh, let's do an interview of Spooky Luke. So the dude is like, he looks like a human bull. It's like you just want to put like one of those gold rings in his nose septum. Oh, I see it. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. He's like built. He would look like he would run through a wall, this dude. Super nice. He gives the warmest hugs. Yeah, yeah. So I go up to him, and I'm like, hey. You know, because I had talked to him earlier, but I didn't say anything about streaming or anything like that. I said, hey, Luke, you want to do an interview? And I think, like, I kind of just, like, surprised him. Yeah. You know, like, what do you call that, like a paparazzi or something? I think he just, I felt in his face like he wanted to, but he was, like, upset with himself, like he was so busy. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, I just, like, what an idiot. You know, I was like, I just embarrassed myself. So I kind of slunk away after that. Oh, no. He gives good interviews, yeah. I know that they've been crazy busy at these shows, though, especially. Yeah, exactly. Oh, Evil Dead was sold out, I think, at that point. Yeah. Yeah. He did say, he was like, oh, are you here tomorrow? I'm like, you know, I'm just here for a couple hours. I got to go back home. So he was gracious, but I was like, oh, my gosh, what a dummy I am. So I kind of retreated. And then on that vein, too, so I was walking with Vito, and we went to the farmer's market and grabbed something so we're walking back and I look to my left and who is there but Jack Guarnieri Oh yeah How do you pronounce his last name Don Jack Guarnieri Jack Guarnieri thank you Jack Guarnieri At least no one corrected me and that how I been saying it Yeah. So I look at my corner of my eye. I'm like, that's Jersey Jack. He's walking with this other guy. And I run up to him, and I'm like, you know how when you, like, you know, he doesn't stop. Like, he's really friendly, and he, like, clicks his eye. And I'm talking about Jersey, and he lives in Jersey. and we're like bonding here and he's Italian and Vito's Italian and we're chatting. But like I'm just like kind of walking with him and chatting and everything else. And then, you know, okay, like that's cool. Good interaction. Nice guy. And then Vito was like, oh, we should have interviewed him. I'm like, I don't want to just like, you know, net the guy and, you know, and try to get him for an interview. I'm sure he has busy stuff to do too. But got to meet him, which was super, super cool. Yeah, I keep thinking like I need to go to these shows because I run into these people all the time. I'm like, how come I never just stop them and have them just record like a bump for the podcast, you know? Like, hey, Steve Ritchie, just say, hey, it's Steve Ritchie, and you're listening to Don's Pinball Podcast. Play better, Megan, or something, you know? Yeah, yeah. Oh, dude, I've got a great moment with Steve Ritchie. I was waiting for the JJP conference at Pintastic, and so we were waiting for the stream to start or something. And so Steve just grabbed the microphone. He just starts doing Mortal Kombat voices, you know, because he did, you know, not only is he a pinball designer, but he also did, like, a lot of voices for Bally Midway games, including, like, you know, he did the announcer. He was Shao Kahn, right? So when you hear, like, finish him in Mortal Kombat 2 and 3, like, it's his voice, you know? So he just starts raffing off, Johnny Cage. I'm going to have to go home and play that when I get home, Dom. Oh, my God. It's awesome. And so I got Black Knight Sword of Rage, which he designed, which has the amazing topper that the Black Knight's head is articulated and moves and taunts you. and like it's his voice and he slipped in some mortal combat call outs up there too so when you're playing with the topper and this guy's yelling at you and it's like you weak pathetic fool and i'm like ah there's shout gods yelling at me playing this pinball machine this is fantastic it's a fun moment if like you're a mortal combat head yeah yeah very cool very cool and then um yeah just going back to the show yeah sorry i got to play uh oh no worries uh merlin's arcade was next to Evil Dead. So I jumped on that. I think they won Merlin's. Okay, yeah. Little line. Super nice guy. I forget his name. Was it Turner, the guy that was there, the owner, Chris Turner? No. Or it might have been one of his... Distributor. Oh, okay. He was an employee. You're right. Okay, yeah. He was an employee. He had the shirt from the company. But I'm playing, and again, I played a decent game. But you know what? I ended the game, and he says, oh, by the way, there's this other set of flippers on it. I'm like, don't. I'm like, oh, my gosh. It shot really well. It felt good. Nice, like, I don't know if it was a shaker motor, but just kind of, you know, you felt the vibrations with the, I guess it was the pop-up bumpers. Yeah, it's a fairly simple game, but it is fun to play. I spent a good amount of time on it in Texas. So yeah, I'm hoping somebody picks one up around me so I'll have access to it. Yeah, and it was interesting. The art style reminded me of DreamWorks, like 1990s, Prince of Egypt. I know exactly what you're talking about. From my childhood. Doesn't it have that vibe? Yeah. What it reminds me of, my mind went right to Disney's Gummy Bears from the Disney Afternoon cartoons. The same color palette. And I'm like, oh man, if this was Gummy Bears, I'd buy two of them. yeah so i guess i don't know it's intentional like it was a fond art art style of chris you know is chris's kind of growings up or something yeah i mean he's trying to market this as a very family-friendly game i mean if you i don't think you could design a game that's that's least offensive than this game you know i mean it would be any polite company would tolerate this absolutely fine you know um but uh but you know what i i think if i'm not maybe correct me if i I think there's some cuss words in it, too. I don't know if those cuss words are maybe some innuendo hidden in there. Maybe, yeah. I forget his name, but he kind of pointed out and giggled or something. Some little things. I wonder if there's an adult mode switch that you can turn that on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I played that. Great game. so I went back to King Kong I waited online again and I'm like it's not moving I'm like I'm going to see it soon at a local arcade soon enough that seems unusual for Stern because generally they're very well represented at all these shows I haven't been to Allentown before but normally you walk in and there's like here's 8 of everything we have Go play them. Usually there's no lines. With the exception of Metallica, when that dropped, the remastered at Expo, it showed up on Saturday, and they showed up with two machines, and it was like hour-plus waits for both of them. But yeah, generally they have everything there, so that's a little weird. But it might have been a timing thing, like where they were just getting some prototypes out of the factory, or just like very early builds. I wonder if it was a premium or a prolet that was there. I think it was a premium I'm pretty sure I keep thinking they should going back to selling upcharge things at these shows they should have a couple of games in a private lounge or something and you can buy access to go in there a little quieter or book some private time with these things so you can really get a sense of it I think there would be a market for that let me arrange a time let me arrange 20 minutes I can come and play this in a quiet room with some sips and nibbles or something. Yeah. And then I was at this... I was looking at some kind of items at a stand and I noticed this guy kind of slipped something in his pocket. No, I'm just kidding. Oh my God! That was amazing! Yeah, but the controversy... The coin taker thief. I forgot about that. That dude was totally right on camera. He was looking around, Don. Yeah, people found him pretty quickly. And then he was quick to be... He came up with some cockamamie story about, oh, I paid some other guy, but he was a scammer and he ran off. And then eventually, I think he copped to it. Yeah, yeah. I was just seeing all these, like, what's his name? Butch's Game Barrage. Like, different folks just saying, hey, you know who this is? I'm like, oh my gosh, I was there. And then I'm like, wow, they're going to find this guy quick. Can you imagine? And he's, you know, he seems to be a collector so he's paying thousands of dollars for these things it's like what's his name Breaking Bad like she's stealing shoes oh yeah yeah just to steal it it's for the thrill oh my god he's got to write some I don't know Hail Marys or something make up for that make some donation to some good pinball charity he's going to have to sweep the floor when they close a piece of pinball gods Oh my god, that's crazy Yeah, that was wild So, cool show, I should check it out then is what you're saying Yeah, definitely I want to go Next year There was some Retrocade games in the back Which was neat, a ton of There was a lot of games Condition varies Once you get into the full set of the other games Which is understandable But I got to see some really interesting games They had some really nice restoration companies kind of showing their wear. There was a P3 there, but I don't know. I was getting tired by the end of that. I did want to play it, but I just didn't get a chance to play it. And then there was another arcade builder, so we checked him out and talked to the owner for a while. But, yeah, definitely, it's just great to see the people, the amount of people there and lining up and passionate about pinball. It's just incredible. because, again, I don't see it where I live. Right, right. So would you go back next year to this show? Yeah, definitely. I just, again, like anyone else, I just hope whatever new game is there, bring a bunch of them, bring five, ten of that new release from Stern, be ready for the crowds because it was a little disappointing not being able to play that, but they'll come around. Yeah, there's been shows I've been to where they'll do some after-hours events, You know, like when the main hall closes to the general public, if you purchase the VIP pass or something, you're let back in for a couple hours with much lower crowds. And those tend to be, like, super fun. TPF does that. Midwest Gaming Classic in Milwaukee does that. You know, they have a band playing and stuff in the evening. So there are opportunities to be able to go to these shows and actually have a little bit more elbow room, a little more time with the games, you know, because some of them just get slammed. Yeah, TPF especially. it's just like I mean there's a lot of games there but a lot of people come out for that um you know that's an event great food too um you know right in Dallas or Frisco Texas yeah I'd be more for the vibe like with TP I guess TPF right you would there's that I guess if you're part of like you know the the streamer kind of media you know you kind of visit barrels of fun I'd love to visit them and then like with you know uh was this the the big expo was it expo In Chicago, you've got potential visits to Stern or Jersey Jack. Those would be really cool just to kind of go toward the factory and see the newest game. I've been pretty successful now contacting the organizers of these shows and coming in as media. And a lot of them are very welcoming, and they'll try to get you in and get you spots with people to see the games, film them. So, yeah, I leverage that to the hilt, man. I'm not shameful about that at all. What was the Massachusetts? Pintastic? Pintastic. Yeah. So were you like, did you have like a table and like were you signing autographs like very hardy at Pinball on the Beach? Come on, you were, right? I'm not at that level, man. I've signed very few things. No, I didn't maintain a booth or anything, but I did get to go there on a media pass, which was awesome because it helped me be able to travel out and go to the show. And then that show happened in like a huge busy week. That was when Kong was released. That was when Barrels of Fun was doing their media day for Dune. and I was just like all over the country like four days in a row. But I really do appreciate them, you know, extending that. Let me go out to these shows and, you know, check them out and then give everybody my impressions. Because it does take a lot of, you know, time and effort and logistic planning to get to these things. So it's good to know, like, yeah, it's good to know, like, from people that have been there, like, is this worth going to, you know? I mean, if it's your local show, fine, but, you know, this would be traveling across the country for me. So, yeah, great input, man. Thanks for coming on and letting me know about that. Oh, it's a great experience. Again, my first time as a newbie, and I still haven't pulled the trigger on my first pin. I'm thinking that Godzilla Premium, not too creative, but it's a great game. I love to play it. It's a great game, yeah. And it's sold in great numbers. There's a lot of them out there. So I think you could walk in and pick up a heavily modded game for a good price. And then you know it'll at least hold the value of what you paid for it. Yeah. No, I appreciate you. I bug you. I'm like, Don, what do you think? Don, what do you think? So I'm like, I got the pinball buyer jitters. I'm like, oh, is this a good deal? But yeah, I want the shaker motor in there if I get a premium and someone modded would be nice. Yeah, and of the mods you can add yourself, that's a pretty easy thing to put in. It's four bolts, and then you run the wires. It shows you exactly where to plug into the board, and you're done. And I think for the money and for the amount of interactivity a shaker motor adds, it's a great mod to put in there. It's easy to do, too. I mean, 10 minutes and you're done. Yeah, yeah. I got a general question for you. Of course. I'm looking at arcades versus pinball. And like an arcade game, like a good arcade game versus a good pinball game. So with emulation, right, you have access to thousands and thousands of games, right? It's incredible. from early days to near present, not super new. But any game you tire of eventually and you want to play something else, and that's kind of the beauty of having a multi-cade and multiple games. It seems to me like I've never owned a pinball game, but whatever you call that, the durability of interest is longer for pinball versus kind of a video game. Yeah, like that replayability that you're going to have. Like how long until you get sick of this game? Exactly. Yeah, so I've had games before, and new stuff would be coming out, and I would essentially do two things. I would look at, see what I just wasn't playing that much of anymore. Guns N' Roses I played the absolute hell out of, to the point that once I started adding three games, four games, I just wasn't going back to it hardly at all, mainly because I played it a thousand times already so I looked at the fact that I wasn't playing this game as much anymore and it was going to be very easy for me to get it again if I sold it so that's how I picked that game to sell some of the other ones I have though I've had for a long time like at the same time I had that Guns N' Roses I bought this Star Wars Premium behind me and like I'm not giving her up man the other night it was late everybody was asleep and I was down here and I'm like I'm going to play some Star Wars. I'm in the mood for it. I blew up the Death Star. It was going crazy. I love this game. And I can't think of anything that's out there on the market that I would want to have to the point that I would sell that. And it's not known as a great game in the community. It does take a little bit to warm up to it to realize kind of how it plays because it does play a lot different. The rules are really different than anything else that's out there. A lot of manipulating the multiplier. But once you figure it out, I'm totally into that game. Stranger Things, same way. I went and got myself a Black and White Monsters, another game that isn't top 20 or anything, but it is for me. And so those games are hanging out, but other ones like Godzilla I played, and then eventually same thing with Guns N' Roses. Even though it's a great game, I just wasn't going back to it as much anymore as some other things, so that one went. Same thing happened to Big Lebowski. I loved it. I always wanted one as soon as I learned of it. went ahead and got it, but then reached the point that I'd played it nearly a thousand times and it's like, I'm just not going back to it and it's worth a lot of money. Let me move that on. So people say, Don, you're crazy. Why are you selling Big Lebowski? And oh, I sold that and used the funds for Avatar. But it's just because for me, I wasn't playing it as much anymore. But there's other ones that like Texas Chainsaw Massacre is probably never leaving. It's so fun, man. There's so many good things. Maybe one day I can actually get my hands on one and play it in some arcade because it's nowhere near me. Okay, yeah. It didn't sell in the numbers at Looney Tunes. I think the horror theme put some people off of it. But even if you're not into watching horror films, that game has every emotion in it. There's whimsy. There's zany parts of it. There's absolutely no holds barred torture porn in it almost. It's just like it's such a neat experience of a game, man. I love it, and I can't loud it enough. And I think it's going to be one of those ones that later on people are going to rediscover and say, you know what, this is a great freaking game. It was totally slept on. Yeah. I don't know if that answered your question, but, yeah, a pinball machine can't eventually get old, you know, because there's not 1,400 machines in there that you can swap out, right? So that does happen, but I haven't seen that as a problem. That just means, like, okay, when something new comes out, this is the one that's going to go out. Yeah, and like you said before, like pinball, even – I know there's a whole controversy about LEs and not holding their value. There's people that say don't buy LEs, who I'm talking about. But yeah, like if you're premium pro, you buy new in box, yeah, you pay tax. But I think shipping is pretty most – it's like free for most distributors. For Sterns, yeah. Stern will drop ship pretty cheap. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, six months of the year, you might, I don't know, it might drop a thousand or something like that, give or take. But then you do the math per month that you're holding it. Maybe it's not too bad. Yeah. And then there's, you know, for every game that's dropped in value, that kind of, you know, it sucks for the seller, but that's great for the buyer. So as a buyer, you've got a whole used market of games you've never owned before that you can just kind of pick. You might find a Deadpool Pro and just pick that up as your first game for a great price, a ton of gameplay that's in there, and then you move it on for about the same amount because you already bought it once it depreciated. That's right. Yeah. So, yeah, I guess the game for you is going to be the one that pops up local that you can just go grab, pay cash, verify it's real, get it, and then something that's not going to be a total turkey to try to sell later on, you know. So maybe stay away from the Ninja Turtles and maybe Mandalorian and maybe veer towards a James Bond 007 or Deadpool or something. Because I think you can get those. Hold on for six months and then swap it out. What's wrong with that, man? Just have games rotating, you know? No big deal. And then you get one game, and then if you find that you're getting a little bit bored of it, have a friend with some other games and just do a temporary swap with them. We've done that too with Friends of Town. I need to develop like a little network within I know there's around me there's other like through Pinside I think there's a way to do it but like kind of set up a little network of folks and yeah I had two friends in town and my Godzilla I just wasn't playing it as much anymore so we did a three way swap and you know I got a dialed in and then a wonka later on and then eventually we just ended up rotating our own games back but for a month we just had them swapped and you had a brand new game that you never played at home before and your friends doing the same thing and it's not costing anything. That's a good way to do it. Find a network and then get a game that neither of you have and then you can rotate it around. Yeah, and then have a handshake agreement. I don't know. You sit on it or something. You screw it up. You cover it. Make sure it's someone you know and you trust. Yeah. Fantastic, man. Where can people check you out at? uh yeah so i um i stream with uh perfect storm gaming and um periodically guest with uh joe kate on youtube all right awesome man yeah and wednesday i think is when you do those streams i was invited to appear on there i had a great time for about two hours and i had to crash and you guys were still going man so that was awesome we'd love to have you back uh one day have you on there's always you're you're i mean there's like we cover so many different things and and you have so many different areas of interest and theme parks. We all love theme parks too. We could spend a whole show on that. It's incredible. Well, cool, man. Alan, I really appreciate the time. Have a blast. Thanks, Don. Thanks. pinballpodcast.gmail.com is how you get at me if you have ordered a Star Wars pinball topper. It's been shipped, so we're all caught up again, and given demand, maybe there'll be some more. X-Men are coming up next. And when I have more news and confirmation, you know I'm going to bring it to you here first. So be a bro, jump over on Patreon. I put stuff that leaks there as soon as I get it. And thanks for listening, man. Really appreciate it. Alright, be good to each other, and I'll talk to you soon. www.firstwear.com _(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_ --- *Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 30cad840-55d0-4596-822d-99004f583417*