# Ep 10 - Steve Ritchie **Source:** Jersey Jack Pinball Podcast **Type:** podcast_episode **Published:** 2021-08-13 **Duration:** 37m 29s **Beat:** Pinball **URL:** https://jjppodcast.libsyn.com/ep-10-steve-ritchie --- ## Analysis Steve Ritchie, legendary pinball designer with 47 years in the gaming industry, officially joins Jersey Jack Pinball after 16 years at Stern. In a candid interview, Ritchie discusses his March 2021 decision to leave Stern due to unhappiness, his first impressions of JJP, and his design philosophy prioritizing action, mechanical gameplay, and strong licensing. The episode also features Joe Katz discussing the Willy Wonka 2.0 code update, which represents a significant difficulty rebalance to make the game more accessible to casual players. ### Key Claims - [HIGH] Steve Ritchie left Stern in March 2021 (announced August 2nd on social media) after being unhappy with his working situation despite having many friends there — _Direct quote from Ritchie: 'In the month of March this year, I was very, let's just say, sad about the working situation that I was in there.'_ - [HIGH] Ritchie had been at Stern for 16 years total before departing — _Ritchie states: '16 years total. That's a long time.'_ - [HIGH] Ritchie had never been inside Jersey Jack Pinball's physical facility before his first day — _Ritchie: 'So you had not been inside Jersey Jack Pinball prior to the first time you walked in on Monday? Never. Didn't know a thing about it.'_ - [HIGH] Ritchie's typical game turnaround time is 15 months from start to finish — _Ritchie states: 'They're huge projects. Yeah, absolutely. I can imagine it's even bigger here. I'm looking forward to it.'_ - [HIGH] Willy Wonka 2.0 represents a significant difficulty reduction to make the game more accessible to casual players — _Joe Katz: 'I decreased the overall game difficulty and added a few surprises along the way' and notes that previously 'maybe five people in the world' had reached Pure Imagination wizard mode_ - [HIGH] Joe Katz consulted private beta testers before releasing Wonka 2.0 to open beta, to validate the changes — _Katz: 'I gave it to a couple of people and I was sort of thinking, OK, if they come back to me and are like, oh, you ruined the game, then I probably would have just scrapped the whole idea.'_ ### Notable Quotes > "I didn't really want to go. I have so many friends over there, just great people, but I had to go because I wasn't happy. I'm not, you know, I need to be happy." > — **Steve Ritchie**, early interview section > _Explains the emotional complexity of leaving Stern despite good relationships; prioritizes personal happiness over loyalty_ > "Handcuffs are off. That's how I feel." > — **Steve Ritchie**, mid-interview > _Suggests creative restrictions at Stern; indicates optimism about opportunities at JJP_ > "I like a game to rock. I like a game to be, you know, fast and smooth. I like it to be mechanical action. I don't do cute." > — **Steve Ritchie**, design philosophy section > _Core design philosophy statement; establishes Ritchie's signature approach to game design_ > "I launched a bottle rocket under Barry's door, and he called me. He was screaming and swearing at me. And Ken Trudeau, the president, walks up to me and he goes, what are you doing? He said, put a piece of metal under that before you light it up. It'll burn the floor." > — **Steve Ritchie**, Williams anecdote section > _Humorous example of creative culture at Williams; illustrates freedom and competitive dynamics of that era_ > "My main objective with 2.0 was to offer a fresh playing experience while keeping the spirit of the original rule set intact. I decreased the overall game difficulty and added a few surprises along the way." > — **Joe Katz**, Wonka 2.0 section > _Official statement on 2.0 design philosophy; balance between accessibility and rule depth_ > "There's just a lot in that game that people were missing out on... There's so much in that game that people need to see." > — **Joe Katz**, Wonka difficulty discussion > _Justifies difficulty reduction by referencing unplayed content; focuses on content accessibility rather than challenge level_ > "I play pinball differently than probably 95% of the people who buy pinball machines." > — **Joe Katz**, difficulty discussion > _Acknowledges designer skill bias; explains why original difficulty locked out casual players from game content_ ### Entities | Name | Type | Context | |------|------|---------| | Steve Ritchie | person | Legendary pinball designer with 47 years in gaming industry; left Stern in March 2021 after 16 years; officially joined Jersey Jack Pinball on August 2, 2021 | | Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Premium boutique pinball manufacturer where Ritchie is now employed as designer; founded by Leonard Abbas | | Stern Pinball | company | Manufacturer where Ritchie worked for 16 years before departing; employer of multiple designers mentioned in discussion | | Leonard Abbas | person | Owner/founder of Jersey Jack Pinball; met with Ritchie during recruitment process; described by Ritchie as 'incredible human being' | | Jack | person | Jersey Jack Pinball president/representative; long-time friend of Ritchie from 40+ years; initiated job offer to Ritchie in March 2021 | | Joe Katz | person | Lead programmer on Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory; released 2.0 code update in August 2021 with significant difficulty rebalance | | Ken Cromwell | person | Host of Jersey Jack Pinball Podcast; interviewed Ritchie on his first week at JJP; involved in company's PR/social media | | Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory | game | Jersey Jack Pinball game released in 2019; received 2.0 code update in August 2021 reducing difficulty and improving accessibility | | Black Knight: Sword of Rage | game | Stern pinball game designed by Steve Ritchie and Tim (co-designer); described by Ritchie as 'one of the most violent ever' and 'mean machine' | | High Speed | game | Iconic pinball game designed by Steve Ritchie; referenced as potential candidate for High Speed 3 sequel | | Stern Engineering team | organization | Design team at Stern where Ritchie worked; described by him as 'family' and 'good family' | | Eric | person | Jersey Jack Pinball employee known to Ritchie from previous work; greeted him on first day | | Pat | person | Jersey Jack Pinball employee known to Ritchie from previous work; greeted him on first day | | Barry Osler | person | Pinball designer at Williams; frequent victim of Ritchie's pranks (bottle rocket incident) during Williams era | | Ken Trudeau | person | President of Williams Electronics during Ritchie's tenure; responded to Ritchie's bottle rocket prank with safety advice | | Star Trek (pinball) | game | Stern pinball game designed by Ritchie; noted as first game he designed with full RGB LED playfield | ### Topics - **Primary:** Designer transition and personnel moves, Jersey Jack Pinball company culture and operations, Code update and game balancing philosophy, Game design philosophy and methodology - **Secondary:** Pinball design team dynamics and collaboration, Difficulty accessibility vs. challenge in modern pinball, Williams Electronics history and creative culture, Licensing and IP selection for new games ### Sentiment **Positive** (0.82) — Ritchie expresses enthusiasm and relief about joining JJP despite initial anxiety; acknowledges sadness about leaving Stern but emphasizes optimism about new opportunity. Joe Katz shows thoughtful approach to game balancing. Overall tone is celebratory with some reflective melancholy about career transition. ### Signals - **[business_signal]** JJP acquiring established top-tier designer suggests company confidence in manufacturing capacity and future production plans (confidence: high) — Leonard Abbas and Jack's recruitment of Ritchie; Ken Cromwell notes increased building 'buzz' with Ritchie's arrival - **[community_signal]** Joe Katz uses private beta testing before open beta to validate major code changes, addressing risk of community backlash (confidence: high) — Katz on testing methodology: 'if they come back to me and are like, oh, you ruined the game, then I probably would have just scrapped the whole idea' - **[competitive_signal]** Ritchie recruitment signals JJP's ambition to compete directly with Stern on designer roster and game output quality (confidence: high) — Ken Cromwell notes 'different buzz in the building' and intent to 'increase productivity and get more games out on a more frequent schedule' - **[design_philosophy]** Willy Wonka original difficulty was excessive barrier to content; Joe Katz discovered through playtesting that difficulty locked out unintended audience segments (confidence: high) — Katz analysis of stat dumps showing what players were/weren't seeing; acknowledgment that casual players avoid settings adjustments - **[design_philosophy]** Ritchie's stated design priorities: fast/smooth action, mechanical gameplay, strong licensing, avoids 'cute' themes; values intensity and adversarial gameplay (confidence: high) — Direct design philosophy statement from Ritchie in interview - **[market_signal]** Stern losing top designer to boutique competitor suggests potential shift in power dynamics between manufacturers (confidence: medium) — Ritchie's 16-year tenure at Stern and status as 'best-selling designer of all time' make this a significant loss - **[personnel_signal]** Major industry talent migration: Ritchie moving from Stern to JJP signals competitive repositioning (confidence: high) — Ritchie is best-selling pinball designer of all time; describes himself as having 'handcuffs off' at new company - **[personnel_signal]** Steve Ritchie, legendary designer, departs Stern after 16 years due to unhappiness; joins Jersey Jack Pinball (confidence: high) — Official announcement August 2, 2021; Ritchie's direct statement about March 2021 decision to leave - **[product_strategy]** Willy Wonka 2.0 represents significant gameplay rebalance addressing accessibility barriers for casual players (confidence: high) — Joe Katz quotes on difficulty reduction; only ~5 people previously reached Pure Imagination wizard mode - **[product_strategy]** Ritchie indicates multiple game concepts presented but not yet finalized; has design preferences but focused on learning JJP processes first (confidence: medium) — Ritchie: 'A lot of things have been presented to me. I don't know which one it's going to be.' --- ## Transcript Hey, what's going on, Pinball Land? Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Jersey Jack Pinball Podcast. My name's Ken Cromwell, and I'm your host. I am dusting off the microphone here for the podcast. It's nice to join you all. It's been a little bit, but we're going to get you up to speed on what's happening. We've got some important news that has happened just recently, and that was on Monday, August 2nd. Legendary pinball designer, the king of pinball, the master of flow, Steve Ritchie, joined the team at Jersey Jack Pinball. Steve has had an unbelievable career dating back to 1974. That's 47 years in the gaming industry. And at this point in his career, he's come home to Jersey Jack. As somebody personally that has been involved in pinball for a long time, and I have favorite designers, favorite artists, favorite programmers, it was a complete surprise to me to hear finally that Steve was coming to Jersey Jack. It caught me by complete surprise. In fact, so by surprise that I had a plan to vacation that I couldn't even change before the announcement. So when he came in the door for the first time here, I was in Michigan. I wasn't even here, and it was an interesting scenario because I was watching on social media something that I play a role in here at Jersey Jack. I was watching social media roll out the introduction to the best-selling pinball designer of all time. Now, me personally, as somebody that has obviously worked for Jersey Jack Pinball, but being a pinball enthusiast, a pinball collector, a pinball fan, what I wanted to do is I wanted to kind of let you in on a conversation that I had with Steve. When I approached this conversation with Steve, I wanted to take into consideration questions that I think a lot of people in pinball would have for Steve concerning this move. So I definitely had that in mind when I was talking to him about everything that had gone down. Now, if you get a chance and you stick around after this interview, we actually have a really cool conversation with Joe Katz. Joe Katz, who's the lead programmer on Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. If you notice, too, we just rolled out 2.0, version 2.0 for that game. We have a conversation with Joe about that after that. But first, let's go to the king of pinball. Look, I want to tell you something. Yeah. This is the first day in, like, more than 20 years that I have worn shoes that are not black, just black. We'll take a picture of that. I'll get a picture of that one on there. JJP did this to me. So Steve Ritchie joins us here on the Jersey Jack Pinball Podcast. And, look, Steve, there's a lot of questions that people have. This is a pretty big move in pinball. You've got one of the most iconic designers of all time that has left a company in which you were working for for a while. and you've migrated over to Jersey Jack Pinball. I wanted to start from the beginning. Can you walk the listener through the move over here to Jersey Jack Pinball? How did this situation even present itself? In the month of March this year, I was very, let's just say, sad about the working situation that I was in there. I didn't really want to go. I have so many friends over there, just great people, but I had to go because I wasn't happy. I'm not, you know, I need to be happy. I need to like what I'm doing. You know, I spoke to Jack. He wrote me a note saying, how are you doing? I don't know. And I said, I'm doing okay. And he said, you want a job? And I said, yes. Okay. And we started talking. Jack is an old friend. He's, I don't know. I think we've known each other close to 40 years maybe. I remember seeing him at shows, and, you know, I didn't really know him like I did when I came to Stern, and he was a distributor. So anyway, we have an old friendship. I was excited to come here, but it didn't happen right away. We had a series of, you know, meetings with Leonard and Jack, and I really loved them both. It's like they're incredible people. and that's Leonard Abbas owner of Jersey Jack Pinball that's right very founder that's right of Jersey Jack Pinball right he is a great guy an amazing personality and it's like I'm just incredible human being that's all I'm going to say and the opportunity started you know sounding better and better with each meeting I got happy the day I came to Jersey Jack and we're going to talk about that first day in just a second yeah at what point did you realize that you were ready to move on from your prior company when did it hit you it's just i think it's time for a change well it hit me in march of 2021 i stayed on to finish two whitewoods for my game that they're gonna make and uh maybe they won't make it i don't know um we'll see what happens and uh so you have two games completed from a whitewood whitewoods completed enough sure and i you know i imagine because i i know for a fact obviously you have a lot of friends at uh at stern you've got a lot of friends throughout pinball you've got a big followership you've got a big fan base were there any people that were offering you advice along the way to kind of help you make this decision or is this i didn't talk to anybody about it sure okay i just i couldn't talk to anybody about it you know a couple days before i spoke to one person that's it there was no advice it's just shock shock that i was saying it and shocked that he was hearing it. You know, it's just, but it's, you know, it's happened, and it feels great. No, it makes sense. And I imagine there were a lot of feelings that you were dealing with regarding the transition. I mean, how long were you at Stern? 16 years total. That's a long time. And there's some great people that are good friends. I'm going to miss them. They know who they are. We can still see each other, you know, but it's not going to be like it was. just like here, it's a family. That's what it became at Stern. Engineering is a family, and it was like a good family. Okay, so at some point, you give notice to Stern, and you're letting them know, hey, I'm moving on, right? Yeah, I gave notice on Monday. I didn't really give any notice. I just handed them my resignation. Okay. So what's going through your head? There was a week in between your departure from Stern and then you actually walking through the front door at Jersey Jack Pinball. And I don't know, I'm wondering if you can share some of the feelings, because that week you're really in transition, right? I mean, what's going through your head? What feelings are you experiencing? I was freaking out. I mean, so, you know. Right. I wanted to know what this was about, and I never was in the door before, you know. So you had not been inside Jersey Jack Pinball prior to the first time you walked in on Monday? Never. Didn't know a thing about it. Okay. So it's like, well, I know what I hear. Well, and I mean, it's pinball. So you kind of know what to expect, but I would imagine that you're in, at that point, what is your natural habitat at your old company for over 15 years to come here and really not even know what's behind the door. That had to be weighing heavily on your mind. I don't really know, but, you know, several people said you're going to be able to make some cool shit here. That's it. And they're right, and they're right. I mean, it's like it's a great opportunity for me. Handcuffs are off. That's how I feel. So, I mean, going back to that week that you're just kind of off. You're on a vacation, so to speak. Yeah, I drank a lot. You drank a lot. I drank a lot. I did. It's like I was freaking out. Yeah. You know, you think about all the people you're leaving, friends or otherwise, you know. And, you know, the business, you know, the business aspect and, you know, production, everything else. You know, I was thinking about that. What's that like at Jersey Jack? I have no idea. Right. But I trusted Jack and Leonard, and we're going to do some great things here. What's the drink of choice when you're on a week's sabbatical when switching pinball companies? What's Steve Ritchie drinking? Tequila. Tequila, okay. Good bourbon. Good bourbon. Only good tequila and good bourbon. Interesting. Well, that's not all. I mean, I'll drink vodka, but I don't really like it that much. The occasional water, perhaps, just in between. Oh, lots of water. Yeah, sure. You've got to drink a lot of water. Yes, you do. If you're drinking a lot, you've got to drink just as much water at least. So we come up to the first day, and it was a Monday. Yeah. You walk in the door at Jersey Jack Pinball. What would you like to share with the listener in regards to that feeling of walking through that front door for the first time? Because you just clearly said that you had not done that before. It's hard to explain. I'm kind of in shock when I walk through the door. It's like there's lots of people there that I don't know, some that I do. And I knew Eric and Pat, of course, but I really didn't know. Well, I knew a few people. Yeah, I think a lot of the people that I knew at Williams came out. It was great. Yeah. That was great. And, you know, I'm still anxious. I have to make a game here. And it's like, what's going to happen next? You know, that's how I am. I just put myself in the future maybe a little too much. Well, I mean, you say what's going to happen next. You're going to make a game here. And I know one of the topics I would imagine on most people's mind is wondering what your first title here is going to be. Do you have any idea what that is? Is that still in the works Was something presented to you A lot of things have been presented to me I don know which one it going to be Okay You know I have a preference but you know the more I think about some of these things it's like there's a lot to think about as, you know, as just, you know, as a game designer coming to a new company. I have a lot to establish about, and I have to learn a lot of things that the way things go here. And, you know, I want to influence everything positively if I can, if I can help. I'm going to help. I just want to. I want to work for the strongest pinball company in the world. So at this point in your career, what is it that drives you? What do you like? What are you looking for in a genre or in a license? What motivates you to be the best that you can be? Okay. The things I need, you know, people out there that love pinball know what I'm about. I like a game to rock. I like a game to be, you know, fast and smooth. I like it to be mechanical action. You know, it's important to me. Good music, good speech, good artwork, great code, good rules. I don't know. There's a lot of aspects. But generally, I don't do cute. Yeah, right. I never did, you know. It's hard for me because pinball is such an action game. I mean, it's physical. You beat on it. You play it, you know. It's like if the game is intense, you're going to play it harder. That's what people do. And I like to generate those feelings, feelings of, you know, adversaries often, not necessarily all the time. But pinball can be a very adversarial game. And I do like that. I also like, you know, just good action games. Well, I know you had followed up both of your Black Knight games recently. Yeah. And you have High Speed, which is such a legendary, again, iconic game, and High Speed 2. For instance, just for example, is doing like a high-speed three something that you would ever consider down the road? Is that anything that you're aspiring to do? Or is it to the point where you're just kind of looking past games that you've done in the past? I mean, I've considered it. I just think that titles are really important right now. That's what I learned from Black Knight. I think Black Knight, Sword of Rage, you know, Tim and I gave our best work. And it's like it is a mean machine, maybe one of the most violent ever. I don't know. but it's really fun too. It's total elation to beat it. You know what I mean? Right. Just get a good score. And I really like that. But I also think that title, a title that people know, movie title, rock band, something, you know, is probably appealing to more people. But I haven't put it out of my head. So it's a possibility. It's there. It's a possibility. Right. But I think I want to start with the title first. It's not in your rear view. Right. It's potentially there. And I know just from talking to you over the years and talking to designers and people that worked in Bally and Williams back in the day, there's a lot of competition, not only between just the pinball designers, but like the design teams themselves. Do you think that that intensity is still there from a competitive aspect? And if it is or if it's not, do you think it helps or it hinders your ability to create right now? I think competition within a company and, you know, intra-company is a good thing. I don't think it's a bad thing. You know, it motivates people. Here, I don't know how that works here, and I'm going to figure it out. So a healthy competition. Yeah, healthy and friendly. You know, I don't want to. You're not launching bottle rockets underneath anybody's doors these days. No, not here. Not here. Have you done that before? I have. I've done it at Williams. Yeah. Barry Osler was the victim often. Barry. But here's the attitude of the company. Here's the attitude, okay? I launched a bottle rocket under Barry's door, and he called me. He was screaming and swearing at me. And Ken Trudeau, the president, walks up to me and he goes, what are you doing? He said, put a piece of metal under that before you light it up. It'll burn the floor. That's right. That's a little tip for those that are launching bottle rockets. That's right. It seems like it was wild, crazy times back in the day. It was great. That was a great place to work. It just was. We had a lot of magic there, a lot of freedom. Yeah. They trusted us. And if things got really bad, you know, like at one time I was making firepower, and Eugene and I both wanted drop targets so bad, you know. I like drop targets. I still like drop targets. My next game is going to have drop targets on it. Oh, there you go. Okay. Yep. There will be some drops on there. Yeah. We were talking about design teams and competitiveness. Is that something you aspire to do here? Because leading up to now, just from my experience here with the company, it seems like when there's a game that's being worked on, it's kind of all hands on deck. Now bringing you in and having three designers in house right now. I know the goal is to increase productivity and get more games out on a more frequent schedule. Are you looking to kind of assemble a design team? Is that something that you think works best? Yeah, design teams are very important. They're used everywhere and everywhere I've been. Design team is great because you link up with people that you know and trust and maybe love. You know, it's like it's a great thing to sit down as a group even before I start drawing a game. I talk to people about what I want to do and they talk to me about it. So you're very open to feedback. Totally, from that team and from anywhere else, okay? but you know everyone i will definitely rate a person's opinion you know on what we should do based on how i know them and other things sure so it's like it's got to be an intelligent opinion it's got to be real right um anyway yeah it's a good really good thing and the cool thing is i only need two people in the getting me and i'm you know a mechanical engineer right and we can work for a long time like that probably five to six months maybe you know maybe i think the earliest the programmer has ever come into well in the new era games used to be a lot simpler okay but in the new era you know code is is very complex i guess maybe after four months i had a whitewood on a few games can you share what your typical turnaround time is from the time you press go 15 months. So 15 months is kind of what you need. It's just, they're huge projects. Yeah, absolutely. I can imagine it's even bigger here. I'm looking forward to it. I'm totally. The system is pretty awesome. A lot of people are looking forward to it. Right. I've only made one game with all RGB LEDs. It was Star Trek. And I, it just looked beautiful. And here I'll be able to do that again and I really enjoy that. I mean, it's just one thing, but it's a really important ingredient that looks beautiful. So going back to your design team. Yeah. Are you in a situation where, I mean, are you recruiting? Are you looking for anybody to kind of join you? Do you have any idea what you're going to do with that? Yes, but it's low key right now. Yeah, okay. Because I have so much to do here to get started. Well, I mean, you've been here two weeks, so. Not quite. Not even two weeks. Right. We're recording this middle of your second week. Yeah. Essentially, right? Yes. I think one huge advantage for me that I'm excited about is that you have such a huge fan base. You've got people that have been following you for years. And it goes beyond them being fans of the games. They're fans of Steve Ritchie, the person. What would you like to say to your fan base that's been following you for all this time as you come to this point in your career where now you're at Jersey Jack Pinball? Well, first I want to say thank you. I'm a lucky guy to have fans, and it's an amazing thing. It's hard to find bad people in pinball, first of all. I think pinball people are some of the best people in the world. I would agree. And it's like, there's a few, there's a few, there's always a few, but not many. And that's what I like about this. And I want to say to them, I have a great opportunity to make a better game here. And I will. I'm just grateful to be here. I am already excited and happy to be here. That's it right there. Happy and excited. But, you know, there's still some anxiety, but it's not bad. On the first day, it was a ton of anxiety. It's just how I am. I can't help it. So, but there's less now. And I feel a lot better about pretty much everything. This has been a great place to work for me personally. And I've made a lot of friends here at Jersey Jack Pinball. I'm not going to lie. There is a little bit of a different buzz in the building with you being here. And I think that's a good thing. It's fun. your energy is here it's something that i'm looking forward to experiencing on a day-to-day basis and and personally i can't wait to see what you do just congratulations and welcome officially to jersey jack pinball thanks a lot ken and i'm really glad you're here too well there you have it that's Steve Ritchie the king of pinball master of flow now officially pinball designer at jersey jack pinball i am really looking forward to see what he has in store for all of us and i know that you are too if you been following us on social media this week you also noticed another announcement that had come out a couple days ago and that was a pretty nice code update for Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory And it went from version 1.38 to 2.0. 2.0 is almost like a mini code overhaul. There's a different approach to the game right now, and it's pretty exciting. And I wanted to sit down and talk to Joe and get some feedback on that. All right, Joe Katz is live in the house here at the Jersey Jack Pinball Podcast. Joe, I don't know, pretty exciting news this week for those especially that are into Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. It was a game that you had poured everything into at that point. And when did Willy Wonka come out originally? What year was that? That was out in, I believe that came out in 2019. 2019. Yeah. And the code had gone through several iterations. In fact, it went up to version 1.38. Yeah, the last version was 1.38. Right. And recently you released to the world version 2.0. Yes, that is correct. I did release 2.0. Let me ask you this. Before we get into the specifics, because I think this is fascinating. It's a fun game. A lot of people claim it to be their favorite game, and the code is fun. What brings a game from a micro-increment, say from a .37, .38, to a full 2.0 type of a situation? Yeah, that's a good question. I think part of it was, you know, when I finally got my own game and I started playing my own game at home and I started to play with people who maybe aren't so much pinball people like my brother, I sort of started to get a better understanding of where the roadblocks were for people. I think when you are talking about minor increments like 1.38 or 1.34 to 1.38, it's typically bug fix here, bug fix there, a small tweak here. And from 1.38 to 2, I touched just about every module in the game. And I just thought – I thought I could go to 1.50, but I thought if I did 2.0, it would sort of give people the idea that, hey, this is fresh. This is no longer based off of the 1.0 numbers. Now we've sort of gone to the 2.0 number. So I try to look at it as like, okay, instead of it being a one number, now it's a two number. People should just automatically think, oh, I should try that. You know, if I went from 138 to 1.5, I think people would have sort of thought it wasn't as big of a deal as maybe it seems. It makes complete sense. You know? I think there's a lot of weight that goes into people trying to figure out what these code numbers mean. And to your point, it does make sense because it is a different playing experience. I know that from having been given the opportunity to play the game with a new code prior to the release. Now, you did something a little bit different recently because we opened up beta testing for code, and this 2.0 version had gone to the beta testers first. What was the initial feedback that you received? Actually, initially, I gave it to a private beta originally. I had a couple guys that I trust that I talk to a lot. They play the game a lot. They know the game really well. They vary in skill level. Some of them are better than others. I sort of created a small little private group just to kick it off, just to get feedback from people I trust and that I know know the game before I sort of let it go to the open beta where then it's sort of free for all at that point. Right. Sure. So I gave it to a couple of people and I was sort of thinking, OK, if they come back to me and are like, oh, you ruined the game, then I probably would have just scrapped the whole idea. Right. I didn't want to get caught giving it to an entire open beta without just a little bit of reinforcement that what I did was down the right path. So I opened up the small beta. We played it for a while. Then I gave it to the open beta, and the feedback was generally very, very positive. there were a couple things that once i gave it to the open beta i had played it enough to know that there was one or two things i still wanted to tweak and basically once i gave it to the open beta it just confirmed my suspicions that there were a few things i needed to tweak tweaked them up played a little bit made a couple different versions for the beta guys and then just was like let's roll with this i think it's time for the world to see it you know and not have to deal with open beta and all that just download it off our website uh now when you talk about the website recently on social media when the game was released you had a quote and it said and this is your quote my main objective with 2.0 was to offer a fresh playing experience while keeping the spirit of the original rule set intact i decreased the overall game difficulty and added a few surprises along the way so are there going to be people that are going to be upset that the game's not as hard i mean what made you really kind of go back and revisit this to allow somebody to maybe explore further within the game yeah that's a great question I do think there will be people out there who thinks it is now too easy and they're going to get to pure imagination pretty quickly. But I think now instead of the long game on the game being getting to pure imagination, it should be what it always should have been, which is executing the stacking and the correct this, this, and this to maximize these points. and you know yeah people are going to get to the end but the the fun part about that is i'm guessing prior to this update there's maybe five people in the world that ever got to the end wow interesting and that's an issue yeah and that's an issue i realized pretty quickly when i was playing it with my brother when i grab a couple stat dumps from a group of different skilled players and saw what they were and weren't doing. And I feel like there's so much in that game that people need to see. There's just a lot in that game that people were missing out on. Well, I would imagine that that's something that's perplexing for somebody that's programming a game because ultimately as a player, if you're not scoring driven, and even if you are, you want to get to that wizard mode, that grand wizard mode. And depending on the complexity or the difficulty of the game, majority of the people are never going to see that and all that hard work which is the big payoff for the player may not really ever really be experienced by those that enjoy the game so this kind of gives you know opens the door lends itself well for people to progress through the game it's not going to be something where you're going to be you know going to pure imagination and and crushing the game every single time but there are increased amount of opportunity or odds for you to get there yeah and then there's also like for the the lesser player who probably still may never make it to pure imagination they now can see stuff like dots dots dots and wonka bar craze and maybe getting to wonka vader a little bit more than they used to maybe getting three golden tickets or maybe getting a third golden ticket or maybe even seeing office for the first time sure and i feel like office and most secret machines especially are too they're unique i don't want to say they're uh never been done before in pinball but i think they're unique enough where i want people to play those modes i want people to see those modes and there's so much gain there like that even if you're never getting to most secret machine at least now maybe you're able to stack a couple factory modes at the same time and feel what that feels like to have you know fizzy lifting drink going and having super spinner going and having a super x going and feeling what that can feel like to just quote-unquote blow up the game you know and i i just want people to experience that no matter what their level was and i think there was a little bit of a barrier oh i want there was a barrier of entry for that to happen fair enough you know and i think i threw everything at the kitchen sink at this game yeah and i love the way the rules worked out and i would have been satisfied leaving it the way it was but i really once i started to do a little bit investigation into what people were seeing and what they weren't seeing, I just felt like this was the best option. And yes, there are going to be people who are like, oh, now I beat it in one day and I've had it for six months and now I've already gotten to the end. Well, that's great. But now go explore the rest of the game and see where you can do X, Y, Z and maximize A, B, C. And just keep... There's so much in the game to play. It's so many modes, so many different things you can do. And they were locked behind skill that was too much, basically, is how it played out. Like, I loved playing it. I loved the challenge. But I play pinball differently than probably 95% of the people who buy pinball machines. That's a great point. And I appreciate the fact that, you know, you kind of looked at the numbers and you took the feedback into consideration and you listened. And that's not something that is an easy thing. This isn't where you put an extra couple hours to, you know, to polish some code. It had somewhat of a mini overhaul, so to speak. And I would imagine a lot of that was on your own personal time, right? It was. And, you know, obviously, you know, we're a business. We're, you know, we need to get the next game done. That's what this business is about. Right. But it's a labor of love for me. I love Willy Wonka I love what it represents I love that it gave me the chance to kind of go a little crazy with it and just make modes coming out of every shot That's so cool. You know, and like, but you're right. I mean, we had a cool conversation, too. We passed each other in the hallway a few hours ago, and you had said something that I thought was very interesting, and that was we were talking about the difficulty being adjusted on the 2.0 code. and we were talking about how it might present itself to the skilled player maybe a little bit too, I don't want to say easy, but maybe not as challenging, so to speak. I don't know that that's the same thing. And the point that you had brought up was that, do you want to discuss that point? Sure, yeah. And I thought this was interesting because it led into some conversation, and I said, hey, let's stop that now and maybe we'll continue this on the podcast just because I think it's interesting to cover. Yeah, this is an interesting subject because when the game was the way it was prior to 2.0, basically what that's doing is saying, okay, if you want the challenge, here you go. Here's the challenge. But if you don't want the challenge, then you need to be savvy enough to be able to go into the settings and change things to make it easier for yourself. The problem with that is that the people who are unable to get far in the game, chances are they're probably afraid to go into the settings and make adjustments. Without a doubt. Right. I am guilty of that myself. A lot of people are. Yeah. People think there's a common thread that gets pulled about, oh, if I don't play it the default way that the programmers intended, then I'm quote-unquote cheating in some way. All your scores are nullified because there's not a baseline in which they can be compared. Right. But here's the problem with that. Okay. Because you're talking me off the ledge here. Yeah, yeah. This is why I don't touch settings. Here's the problem with that. All right. Pinball, when you're playing pinball, it's about having fun. Sure. Right? Usually. Usually. It can vary. It can vary. Trust me, I know. It's about fun. It's not about, oh, I'm going to compare myself to Ken because Ken played it on the default settings and I play on the default settings. So we are 100% apples to apples and we can compare our scores and we know that it's legit. Right. But most people just want to have fun. and the intention here was instead of putting the onus on people who are casual or just straight up afraid to even open the coin door they don't have to worry about it anymore interesting because the game is set up the way it's set up to allow them to have fun with it being quote-unquote easier yeah and now you've established a new baseline right exactly and now if there's uh joe bob out there who's been in pinball for 20 years and he's super comfortable going into settings and reading what they mean and reading what they are well good guess what good go in there and make the game harder for you right because you are comfortable you are a player you are a pinball person i'd much rather put that on the pinball people than on just some person who bought the game because they liked willie wonka and they liked the idea of having pinball in their house right it's like you're impacting less of the demographic by asking the skilled player to increase the difficulty versus asking the lesser skilled person to go in and make a game easier. And it's interesting because you normally do not hear of changing settings that make something more difficult. It's usually the reverse. And with Willy Wonka had been out there for a couple years and now having this new rule set, again, I think it's cool that you do have that new baseline set and you can revisit the game. And it's not just difficulty. I mean, you've got a few, quote unquote, a few surprises along the way. There's some new content in there, some new ways to experience the game, which I think is fun. Yeah, it's – I just – I'm – I would love to break this idea going around in the pinball world that if I touch my settings, I'm no longer as cool as ABC. Because that's not what this is about. Like, if you want to compare yourself to other players and you want to kind of walk around and be like, yeah, I got $15 million on this game, just go be a tournament player. Because then you're playing on an even playing field with a bunch of other people who want to be competitive. With increased difficulty. With increased difficulty. Without a doubt. Right. And it's like playing casually at home, just play what makes it fun for you. Yeah. Don't worry about, oh, my friend, he's got it, but he doesn't touch the settings and he gets a pure imagination and I can't do it. But I just want to suffer because for some reason I want to be compared to my friend. Like that's not what this is about. Right, right. Like you bought this thing to put it in your house. Enjoy it. Yeah. You know, do what you need to do to make the game react the way you want it to react. You know what? Yeah, it's a total fresh look at it. And I have fallen victim to this very thing, and I know that I'm not the only one. But you're right. Make that game enjoyable for yourself. And if you want to compete, go compete. Yeah. And you could incremental it. You could start at the baseline of what we now have being relatively easier, and you could just be like, all right, I want to look for a little bit of challenge. So I'm going to bump the Wonkavator Golden Ticket difficulty up one, which is going to put it back to where it was on the old code. And you know what? That game is going to be a lot harder now to get to pure imagination because getting that third stage of Wonkavator is super difficult. Gotcha. And what I did is the change in that particular mode is you don't have to do stage three. You just got to do the first two stages, which makes it light years easier than having the third stage. So like anybody out there who's like, oh, this is too easy. I've gotten to pure imagination three times. I've executed every time. Go change that setting alone. Start there and see how hard it is for you now. Yeah, amazing. Or take away the spotting of the gobstopper jackpots. You do that, and all of a sudden you're basically back to where you were, except the fact that the factory qualifies a little faster now. Right. That's it. Right. I mean, it's a conversation that – it's an idea that I think needs to be squashed in pinball. I want people to have fun. It's bold, yeah. It is bold. Isn't it funny that you have to remind people that, hey, we're in this to have some fun, right? You're in this to have fun. Right. And, okay, yes, maybe you're into putting scores on some high scoreboard, and you're afraid if you make it easier and you put it up there, then you're somehow cheating everybody else. It doesn't matter. There's nothing wrong with punishing yourself a little bit. It's pinball. Just have fun playing it. It is pinball. You know? That's all I can say to people. It's like just have fun playing it, and if it's too easy for you, that tells me that you're savvy enough to deal with changing the settings. I appreciate you being candid and reminding us, again, there are changes that can be made. And I know there's something we might be covering on that coming up too, but that's fun. We put so much time into giving adjustments for people, and I would say that 90% of people are scared to even go in there and look at them. They think they're going to break the game. They think they're going to make it too easy or too hard or whatever it might be. No, we put that in there so that you can find the fun. Other than putting a game on free play, it never really dawns on me to go back in and adjust anything, whether it be a ball saver or ease of difficulty. So, yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how people react to that. I just – I'm trying to help people who are not the people who have been around pinball for a long time or they're new to pinball but they're already knee-deep into it. I'm trying to help other people. Let them have the fun and let you guys just go in there and make one change. No. Well, I appreciate all your hard work. I know that the community does as well. I'm looking forward to seeing what you have rolling out next. I know you've got a couple things in the pipeline. Sure. But, you know, thanks for taking the time to come in. Absolutely. And knocking this out. Good job on Willy Wonka, man. Thank you. I appreciate it. I hope people like the update and, you know, send me some feedback or send Ken some feedback and let me know what you guys think. I'd love to hear it. Thanks a lot, Joe. Awesome. No problem. It was really good talking to Joe Katz. The one thing I love about Joe, I mean, obviously everybody here is very passionate about what they're working on, but, I mean, this guy has a level of intensity and he just thoroughly enjoys talking about what he's working on and I appreciate that he took the time all right that's going to wrap up this episode of the Jersey Jack pinball podcast I really appreciate you coming by and taking a listen we've got a direction of the podcast that we're taking coming up that I think is going to be fun and exciting we're going to offer some segments you're going to be hearing from a lot of different people on staff here about different scenarios and situations and fun pinball topics I also wanted to go ahead and remind everybody that if you are looking for a job in pinball okay whether you're working in pinball now or if you're looking to get into a pinball career, you can email us at careers at jerseyjackpinball.com, careers at jerseyjackpinball.com. Drop us a resume. Let us know how you think you'd fit in on the team, and we'll have somebody that's going to get back to you. Follow us on social media. You've got Jersey Jack Pinball on Facebook. We're also on Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, and on YouTube. Check us out. Follow us. There's a lot of exciting news still to come. We've got a couple of huge announcements that'll be coming up soon. Looking forward to sharing those with you as well. And finally, if you'd like to reach out and contact me, you can hit me up at podcast at jerseyjackpinball.com. Happy to take any feedback, constructive or otherwise, answer any questions that I can. And again, thanks so much for hanging out on the Jersey Jack Pinball Podcast. Don't forget to take some time out of your day and play some pinball. So long, everybody. _(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v1)_ --- *Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 32f130dd-8a72-46b4-a052-72fe3520a01f*