# Kaneda Klassic: "Deep Thoughts by Deeproot #3"

**Source:** Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2026-04-03  
**Duration:** 7m 32s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://www.patreon.com/posts/kaneda-klassic-3-154685639

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## Analysis

This is a retrospective podcast episode ('Deep Thoughts by Deeproot #3') featuring Deep Root Pinball leadership and designers discussing the company's ambitious vision, original IP strategy, and bold promises made circa 2018-2019. Speakers include Robert Mueller (Deep Root founder), Dennis Nordman, Stephen Bowden, and unnamed designers discussing game development philosophy, innovative mechanical features, and aggressive production/pricing goals. The episode captures the company's confidence and narrative at a moment before the delays and eventual collapse that would later define Deep Root's legacy.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Deep Root plans to release more titles in 2019 than any pinball company in history and more than most of the entire industry in one year. — _Robert Mueller, Deep Root founder, made this explicit promise in the podcast._
- [HIGH] Deep Root will deliver games to customers in two weeks or less from sale. — _Robert Mueller stated this as an operational goal for Deep Root._
- [MEDIUM] Each game in Deep Root's pipeline contains a novel mechanical feature never done before in pinball. — _Robert Mueller claims each game has 'something never done before in pinball' including a new diverter system and Magic Girl's floating ball mechanic._
- [HIGH] Magic Girl will feature a ball that floats in midair without support—described as nearly impossible to achieve until Deep Root solved it. — _Robert Mueller cites John Popaduik's Magic Girl work as an example of innovation; specifically notes 'shipping out Magic Girl without the ball floating in midair.'_
- [HIGH] Deep Root aims to price games lower than any pinball company while maintaining higher quality. — _Robert Mueller explicitly states: 'We would love to get prices lower than any pinball company has ever done, but with more quality.'_
- [HIGH] Stephen Bowden transitioned from competitive pinball player to Deep Root designer and describes it as 'the best decision I've ever made.' — _Stephen Bowden states he was a league/tournament player since 2004 and recently joined Deep Root as a designer._
- [HIGH] Deep Root's designers are creating original IP and narratives rather than relying on licensed themes. — _Stephen Bowden emphasizes: 'We actually want to create IP. We want to create narratives. We want to create stories that drive the pinball versus slapping a license on there.'_
- [HIGH] Dennis Nordman has been designing games for 30 years and is working on two original themes at Deep Root. — _Dennis Nordman introduces himself with 30-year design career; mentions working on original themes with Rob Quinn._

### Notable Quotes

> "Pinball is easy. It's just everything that goes into pinball is complex and hard."
> — **Robert Mueller (Deep Root founder)**, early segment
> _Core design philosophy statement; contrasts surface simplicity with underlying complexity._

> "I've crossed the Rubicon and it's the best decision I've ever made."
> — **Stephen Bowden**, mid-segment
> _Personal endorsement of career transition from competitive player to Deep Root designer._

> "We will release more titles in 2019 than any pinball company in history."
> — **Robert Mueller**, late segment
> _Explicit, quantifiable promise that became a major industry talking point and later a point of contention._

> "Every family needs a pinball, every pinball needs a family."
> — **Stephen Bowden (describing Deep Root slogan)**, mid-segment
> _Marketing philosophy emphasizing long-term ownership and desirability over quick resale._

> "I don't think the pinball world has ever seen a rule set designer yet at the level that Steve has come in and just pounded things out."
> — **Robert Mueller (praising unnamed designer, likely Stephen Bowden)**, mid-segment
> _High praise for design productivity and quality in rule set development._

> "Our goal is still to be able to sell a game and get it to a customer in two weeks or less."
> — **Robert Mueller**, late segment
> _Ambitious operational promise about manufacturing and delivery speed._

> "We're going to have some amazing things at TPF in March."
> — **Stephen Bowden**, mid-late segment
> _References Texas Pinball Festival (TPF) March event as major showcase moment for Deep Root._

> "Any pinball machine sold will be profitable."
> — **Robert Mueller**, late segment
> _Business model assertion; claims every unit sold generates profit, a bold manufacturing claim._

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Deep Root Pinball | company | Boutique pinball manufacturer discussed throughout; company founded by Robert Mueller with ambitious pipeline including original IP titles. |
| Robert Mueller | person | Deep Root Pinball founder and CEO; provides most of the strategic vision and business claims in the episode. |
| Dennis Nordman | person | 30-year veteran pinball game designer; currently working on two original themes at Deep Root with Rob Quinn. |
| Stephen Bowden | person | Transitioned from competitive pinball player (active since 2004) to Deep Root designer; praised as exceptional rules designer with high productivity. |
| John Popaduik | person | Legendary pinball designer (Papa Duke); referenced for work on Magic Girl's innovative floating ball mechanic at Deep Root. |
| Rob Quinn | person | Deep Root team member collaborating with Dennis Nordman on original theme development. |
| Magic Girl | game | Deep Root Pinball title in development; notable for attempting to implement a floating ball mechanic described as nearly impossible until Deep Root's technical solution. |
| Texas Pinball Festival | event | March event (TPF) referenced as key showcase moment for Deep Root to reveal games and progress; described as 'focal point' and 'day of excitement.' |
| This Week in Pinball | media | Mentioned as source of Deep Root scheduling and news; Robert Mueller references it as industry information source. |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Deep Root Pinball's original IP strategy vs. licensed themes, Ambitious production and release goals for 2019, Novel mechanical innovations (floating ball, new diverter system)
- **Secondary:** Competitive pinball player-to-designer transition (Stephen Bowden), Pricing strategy and cost management, Design philosophy and player retention vs. resale, Manufacturing timeline and delivery speed goals
- **Mentioned:** Talent acquisition from film/AAA gaming industries

### Sentiment

**Neutral** (0)

### Signals

- **[product_strategy]** Deep Root explicitly prioritizing original IP and narrative-driven themes over licensed content, positioning this as differentiator from industry norm. (confidence: high) — Stephen Bowden: 'We actually want to create IP... versus slapping a license on there.' Robert Mueller frames this as 'breaking molds' and 'shifting paradigms.'
- **[design_innovation]** Multiple novel mechanical innovations claimed across Deep Root's pipeline, including floating ball in Magic Girl and new diverter system; framed as industry firsts. (confidence: high) — Robert Mueller: 'Each one of the games now has something never done before in pinball.' Specific examples: Magic Girl floating ball and new diverter system mentioned.
- **[product_strategy]** Deep Root targeting lowest prices in industry while maintaining superior quality; emphasizes profitability per unit sold. (confidence: high) — Robert Mueller: 'We would love to get prices lower than any pinball company has ever done, but with more quality' and 'Any pinball machine sold will be profitable.'
- **[manufacturing_signal]** Deep Root claims it will release more games in 2019 than any pinball company in history and more than the entire industry typically releases in one year. (confidence: high) — Robert Mueller: 'Yes, we will release more titles in 2019 than any pinball company in history. We will also release more than most of the entire industry released in one year.'
- **[manufacturing_signal]** Deep Root sets operational goal to deliver games to customers within two weeks of sale, framed as industry-leading speed. (confidence: high) — Robert Mueller: 'Our goal is still to be able to sell a game and get it to a customer in two weeks or less.'
- **[personnel_signal]** Stephen Bowden transitioned from competitive pinball player (active since 2004) to designer role at Deep Root; praised as exceptionally productive rules designer. (confidence: high) — Stephen Bowden self-introduction and Robert Mueller's praise: 'I don't think the pinball world has ever seen a rule set designer yet at the level that Steve has come in.'
- **[event_signal]** Texas Pinball Festival in March referenced as 'focal point' and 'day of excitement' for Deep Root to unveil completed work and progress. (confidence: high) — Stephen Bowden: 'We have this huge focal point... coming at TPF in March, and we're going to have some amazing things.'
- **[design_philosophy]** Stephen Bowden articulates design philosophy favoring long-term player retention and desirability over quick resale; contrasts with 'middle-of-the-road' approach of others. (confidence: high) — Stephen Bowden: 'Once you get the game home, you don't want to sell it. You want people wanting it to be bought from you.'
- **[personnel_signal]** Robert Mueller notes Deep Root has recruited 'amazing talent people coming from feature films coming from AAA video games' to work on pinball. (confidence: medium) — Robert Mueller: 'We have some of the most amazing talent people coming from feature films coming from AAA video games they're going to blow your socks off.'
- **[product_concern]** Episode captures tension between ambitious promises (2019 record releases, 2-week delivery) and design philosophy that resists rushing (Stephen Bowden notes 'you can't work on a game for four years and not finish it'). (confidence: medium) — Stephen Bowden: 'Part of the problem is you can't work on a game for four years and not finish it... People don't want to wait like five years for a game.' Contrasts with desire to 'do it right the first time.'

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## Transcript

Despite running 17 other businesses, I live, breathe pinball 24-7. I have no place here, really. I grew up loving video games and not pinball. I have nothing to do with pinball, nothing to do with manufacturing. I know probably one of my most famous lines is, pinball is easy. So pinball is easy it's just everything that goes into pinball is complex and hard we have some of the most amazing talent people coming from feature films coming from AAA video games they're going to blow your socks off. I'm Dennis Nordman and I've been designing games on and off for the last 30 years I guess and I'm really happy being here at Deep Root Pinball because I'm working on two original themes that I created and with Rob Quinn's help they've been very well developed and I'm really excited for these games to come out. My name is Stephen Bowden and I've been a pinball league and tournament player since 2004 last year I was sitting right where you are and now I've crossed the Rubicon and it's the best decision I've ever made I think I decided to unleash myself can't wait to show you what we're doing but unfortunately we're going to need a little bit longer to get things the way that we want them. We will be on time. I know there a lot of talk about that. Because we actually want to create IP. We want to create narratives. We want to create stories that drive the pinball versus slapping a license on there that everyone kind of knows sort of what's going on. And so I think the stuff that we're putting together is stuff that no one's ever really... It's kind of stuff that people have never seen before with pinball, and so it's going to be super exciting. One of the phrases or slogans we've used, we've used a couple, like every family needs a pinball, every pinball needs a family. I'm kind of like a middle-of-the-road designer. Everybody's bought a pinball game, you bring it home after a month or two, it's like, who can we sell this game to? And so I like to do it the other way, if I can. Once you get the game home, you don't want to sell it. You want people wanting it to be bought from you. So I think in the work I do, and I drive everybody crazy, part of the problem is you can't work on a game for four years and not finish it. You have to finish it in a reasonable amount of time. People don't want to wait like five years for a game. I don't think the pinball world has ever seen a rule set designer yet at the level that Steve has come in and just pounded things out. I think that goes to show that you don't have to be a really good pinball player to be a good designer because I've seen what you all have done behind the scenes we came up with a new type of a diverter system that kind of hasn't been done. So definitely designing at Deep Root it just works well. Here it is and just kind of make it there actually more thought that goes in. But the other thing is that Robert's letting us do whatever we want in our games up to a point. He hasn't told me yet I can't put something in. So, I mean, my first game was really loaded with cool stuff. I don't know how much might come out of it in the future, but right now it's pretty interesting. I would say that one of the awesomest things about working with Deep Root Pinball is that we are breaking a lot of molds and we're shifting a lot of paradigms. I mean, the way I look at it, it's opening up a whole new era of what pinball now can become. Yes, this is my first rules design job in the industry. But so get ready. This is pretty cool, like the gig that we got going and people kind of don't have any idea. I'm going to assume most people kind of have read this week in pinball. What I will say is this is what is Deep Root's schedule, right? So we're working hard behind the scenes. We're really behind on some things, and we're really ahead on others. It's sort of like a horse race. We have this huge focal point, this, I don't want to call it a deadline, but it's a day of excitement for us coming at TPF in March, and we're going to have some amazing things. So while I don't want to steal the thunder from Rob, pinball expo here we really hope to see all of you in Texas in March because we want you to see everything we been working so hard on. We're going to do it, and we're going to do it right the first time. I think each one of the designers has put a lot of effort without any thought to cost. I know the famous one for John Popaduik is shipping out Magic Girl without the ball floating in midair. And it might seem like an easy thing to do, but it's never been done before in pinball because it's almost impossible to do, trust us, until Deep Root got their hands on it. I think each one of the games now has something never done before in pinball. We would love to get prices lower than any pinball company has ever done, but with more quality. Yes, we will release more titles in 2019 than any pinball company in history. We will also release more than most of the entire industry released in one year. The way we've designed everything internally is that any pinball machine sold will be profitable. Our goal is still to be able to sell a game and get it to a customer in two weeks or less. Deep Root is going to make it and we're going to surprise you with some cool stuff.

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v4)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 3447e6ee-b6f9-45ae-affc-b9fb934d893c*