# DPP #204 "So about Star Wars..."

**Source:** Don's Pinball Podcast (regular feed)  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2025-09-06  
**Duration:** 36m 54s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/donspinballpodcast/episodes/DPP-204-So-about-Star-Wars-e37skne

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## Analysis

Don discusses Star Wars pinball's delayed marketing reveal, attributing it to licensing approval bottlenecks between Stern and Disney rather than production issues. He provides extensive commentary on pinball licensing complexities, including how licensors restrict custom voice actor callouts and enforce strict marketing approval processes. He also reviews recent releases and updates including Cactus Canyon shipping, Galactic Tank Force updates, and warns against supporting the cursed Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland project.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Star Wars pinball marketing reveal delayed due to Disney/licensor approval processes, not production issues — _Don's analysis of NDA emails and conventional industry licensing workflows; attributed to Disney marketing team not meeting Stern's internal deadline_
- [HIGH] Modern licensing agreements prohibit pinball manufacturers from approaching actors for custom callouts without licensor risk of blacklisting — _Don explains this as industry trend driven by actors discovering they may have rights they weren't aware of, creating legal complications for licensors_
- [HIGH] Bruce Campbell retained ownership of his likeness for Evil Dead, enabling custom callouts in that pinball game — _Don praises Campbell's foresight in negotiating likeness ownership as unique exception to modern callout restrictions_
- [HIGH] Jersey Jack Pinball faced licensor threat to pull Harry Potter license over subtle Easter egg (number 11 on Quidditch jersey) — _Don recounts detailed example of Harry Potter licensor threatening lawsuit and license revocation if the modification was sold_
- [HIGH] Cactus Canyon upgrade kit shipped after two-year delay, but community enthusiasm has dried up — _Don reports seeing pallets/boxes shipping; notes most owners likely moved on after extended wait_
- [MEDIUM] Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Raza remake) is coming from DPX at even higher costs than Alice's Adventures in Wonderland — _Don reports late-breaking information from undisclosed source; characterizes as rumor but treats as credible_
- [HIGH] Star Wars pinball has not leaked any gameplay footage or detailed information ahead of media day — _Don confirms 'nothing's leaked out. Iron tight this ship that they run is.'_
- [MEDIUM] Stern planned to show Star Wars marketing trailer by Friday/Monday before media day based on King Kong precedent — _Don explains conventional timeline expectations based on past Kong reveal two days before media event_

### Notable Quotes

> "The deal has altered, pray I don't alter it further... they can come down and shut you down at any point."
> — **Don (quoting Lord Vader/Empire Strikes Back as analogy for licensor power)**, ~15:30
> _Captures core licensing risk: licensors can withdraw approval at any stage of development, wiping out invested capital_

> "How terrifying must that be? So on top of all that, right, you have the licensor you're working with... and then you turn around and you're like, okay, we need to start making pamphlets and marketing materials... now you have to deal with the marketing licensor person."
> — **Don**, ~18:00
> _Illustrates the specific bottleneck: separate marketing licensor approval required after production approval, causing delays_

> "Bruce Campbell, with the foresight of a madman genius, decided to have ownership rights of his likeness there... So good on him for having that foresight to gain that."
> — **Don**, ~42:00
> _Praises Campbell as exception to modern restrictions, enabling Evil Dead custom callouts_

> "I don't think it means that everything is for sure out. Monday morning, if they walk in and get a fax that, hey, everything's approved here, you're good to go, they can go hit publish on that video."
> — **Don**, ~50:00
> _Indicates still-possible last-minute approval window before media day embargo lifts_

> "This was a project that's cursed, right?... this game that literally hurt seniors and became totally crime-ridden from top to bottom."
> — **Don**, ~65:00
> _Strong moral stance on Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Zidware/Deep Root project) due to fraud allegations_

> "You've had your game for a couple of years now. And I'm sure with as shallow as that gameplay is... I would have moved it on by now... the enthusiasm has just completely dried up."
> — **Don**, ~72:00
> _Harsh assessment of Cactus Canyon's delayed upgrade kit reception; predicts poor secondary market impact_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Star Wars: Fall of the Empire | game | Stern Pinball's unrevealed game designed by John Borg, scheduled for media day reveal with marketing delayed by Disney approval process |
| Stern Pinball | company | Manufacturer of Fall of the Empire; subject of licensing delays; hosts media day event in Elk Grove Village |
| Disney | company | Licensor of Star Wars; marketing approval team causing delays in game reveal materials |
| John Borg | person | Designer of Star Wars: Fall of the Empire; legendary pinball designer at Stern |
| Don | person | Podcast host; media member attending Stern media day with NDA restrictions; bringing Patreon member as plus-one |
| Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Faced Harry Potter licensor threat over Easter egg (number 11 on Quidditch jersey); example of licensor control |
| Harry Potter | game | Jersey Jack Pinball title; example of strict licensor oversight on art approvals |
| Evil Dead | game | Spooky Pinball game with custom Bruce Campbell callouts enabled by his retained likeness ownership |
| Bruce Campbell | person | Actor who negotiated ownership of his likeness for Evil Dead pinball, enabling custom callouts |
| David Fix | person | Associated with American Pinball/Orbit; praised for original theme strategy (Galactic Tank Force) |
| Galactic Tank Force | game | American Pinball original title; recent code update; example of original licensing strategy avoiding IP complications |
| Cactus Canyon | game | Chicago Gaming Company reissue finally shipping with upgrade kit after two-year delay; community enthusiasm waned |
| Chicago Gaming Company (CGC) | company | Reissued Cactus Canyon with delayed upgrade kit; manufacturer of Pulp Fiction (Don owns one) |
| Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland / Raza | game | Cursed project from Deep Root assets; being remade, rumored from DPX at high cost; associated with fraud/licensing issues |
| Deep Root Pinball | company | Original developer of Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland; assets liquidated and acquired by Chris Turner |
| Chris Turner | person | Acquired Deep Root assets; developing Merlin's Arcade and other projects; sold Papa Duke designs |
| Alice's Adventures in Wonderland | game | Made from Papa Duke assets by Turner; pretty but shallow gameplay; example of resurrected Deep Root projects |
| Merlin's Arcade | game | Chris Turner original game shipping; receiving code updates (Ninja Clips also updated); praised for build quality but limited mechanical complexity |
| Ninja Clips | game | Game with only 100 sales still receiving code updates from Turner |
| Magic Girl | game | Jersey Jack Pinball from Papa Duke designs; pretty but wouldn't buy according to Don |
| Jack Danger | person | Hosting streams of older Star Wars games; discussion partner about Spike 3 audio with George Gomez |
| George Gomez | person | Appeared on Jack Danger streams discussing Spike 3 audio features for Star Wars |
| Zach | person | Stern Pinball representative who confirmed NDA requirements don't restrict media plus-ones |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Licensing approval bottlenecks in pinball game development, Star Wars: Fall of the Empire marketing delay and media day event, Custom voice actor callouts restrictions in modern licensing, Licensor control over game art, marketing, and production timelines
- **Secondary:** Recent game releases and shipping updates (Cactus Canyon, Merlin's Arcade), Deep Root Pinball asset liquidation and cursed projects, Ethical concerns with supporting fraudulent pinball projects
- **Mentioned:** Original vs. licensed game development strategies

### Sentiment

**Mixed** (0.45) — Don is excited about Star Wars pinball but frustrated by licensing delays and NDAs. He's supportive of Stern and understands their constraints, but critical of the industry licensing regime. He's positive about Chris Turner's work but deeply negative about the Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland project. Mixed feelings on Cactus Canyon (glad it shipped, but enthusiasm waned). Overall tone: informed frustration with industry dynamics, not with Stern.

### Signals

- **[business_signal]** Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Raza) facing production viability concerns; cost escalation from DPX manufacturer exceeds Alice's Adventures in Wonderland pricing (confidence: medium) — Don: 'late breaking, that this is going to be coming from DPX and even higher costs than Alice, I don't see any way that this thing gets off the ground at all'
- **[community_signal]** Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland project inherently tainted by association with fraud and senior financial harm; moral objections to supporting the title (confidence: high) — Don: 'this game that literally hurt seniors and became totally crime-ridden from top to bottom... the whole thing just makes me nauseous... I don't think I would want to support this project at all'
- **[community_signal]** Chris Turner gaining positive reputation for supporting small-volume games (Ninja Clips: 100 sales) with code updates and building well-crafted machines (confidence: medium) — Don: 'Order a game from Turner, you're going to get what appears to be a well-built game from Turner and well supported... still supporting the game that only had 100 of sales that went out there'
- **[leak_detection]** No leaks of Star Wars: Fall of the Empire gameplay or detailed information despite proximity to media day reveal (confidence: high) — Don: 'Nothing's leaked out. Iron tight this ship that they run is, which, commendable to them'
- **[licensing_signal]** Licensor can revoke approval and demand costly recalls/rework at any production stage if art/marketing violates contract; example: Harry Potter Easter egg (number 11 jersey) threatened license revocation (confidence: high) — Don: 'If you do that, we will pull our license completely... You're going to be recalling those, reimporting them, ripping the boxes open and tearing those out and putting new ones in'
- **[licensing_signal]** Disney marketing approval team separate from production approval team; marketing licensor caused final approval delays preventing Friday/Monday reveals (confidence: high) — Don explains: 'you turn around and you're like, okay, we need to start making pamphlets and marketing materials... now you have to deal with the marketing licensor person who comes in kind of late in the game now they have to do all the approvals again'
- **[product_strategy]** Star Wars: Fall of the Empire marketing delayed by Disney approval; possible last-minute Monday approval window remains open before media day Wednesday (confidence: high) — Don explains NDAs sent preemptively due to Disney marketing team not completing approvals by Thursday EOD; speculates Monday morning approval still possible
- **[product_strategy]** Chris Turner (Merlin's Arcade manufacturer) sold Papa Duke design assets; focus shifting away from resurrected Deep Root projects toward new original licensed or original-theme games (confidence: medium) — Don asks Turner: 'are we going to see more original themes from you... or are we going to see a whole new licensed concept' and speculates he won't pursue Raza remake
- **[sentiment_shift]** Cactus Canyon upgrade kit enthusiasm dampened after two-year delay; community sentiment shifted from anticipation to indifference (confidence: high) — Don: 'the enthusiasm has just completely dried up... You've had your game for a couple of years now... I would have moved it on by now'
- **[business_signal]** David Fix's original licensing strategy (Galactic Tank Force) avoids actor/licensor complications but requires stronger design talent and storytelling to succeed (confidence: medium) — Don praises Fix's 'genius' in pursuing original licenses to 'avoid all of this business' but notes trade-off: 'you need to come up with a compelling story and you need to be the storyteller'
- **[licensing_signal]** Modern licensing agreements prohibit manufacturers from contacting actors for custom callouts; licensors fear it triggers actor rights disputes and contract renegotiations (confidence: high) — Don details: 'if we even hear that you're trying to contact that person you are absolutely blacklisted from everything here forth going forward... the reason is because you may go to this actor and the movie they did 20 years ago... then they call their agent and they're like... go back, dig up that old dusty contract and see if I have any say over this'

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## Transcript

 Are you ready for more? Because here comes 204. Settling into the weekend with some hot pinball news and views and grips for your face. Get in on this. Star Wars not revealed yet. Coming soon? Probably not, I'll tell you why. We'll get in all the rest, the roundup of what else is going on, games to pre-order, and one to avoid. Let's go. devastating like the cold chill that's cutting through the upper midwest what's going on man we were in summertime mode it seems like a week ago and then boom somebody done hit the switch man there's a chill in the air there's a fog hanging along the ground uh there's skeletons rising up from all the suburban homes in my neighborhood. So, like, it's fall, y'all. Like, we didn't even get a slow transition to it. It's like, boom, it's here. Long pants season. I was at Walmart yesterday wearing my flip-flops and shorts, caught completely unprepared, freezing my dang butt off, man. But I'm getting cozy. I'm warming up with my pumpkin spice shredded wheat that I picked up. So, I mean, it's here. I guess let's fall. And coming with fall is fall releases, like the fall of the empire, the fall of the marketing video that we have not seen, folks, totally anticipated, just like everybody else, to see a full reveal trailer by now. It is Saturday. Two days hence from now, everybody can be congealing in the Elk Grove Village shopping center that is the Stern Hypermart for their new game to give us a little look-see, right? Go and give ourselves a nice butchers of this new Star Wars game coming from John Borg, a Ray Day enterprising solution situation. and we're all relatively hyped for it despite the naysayers online. I think there's a significant amount of hype of this fall release. Let's get more Star Wars. Did Stern learn their lesson? Did they really bring all the assets and the playability that we want in a Star Wars game? Or is it more Millennium Falcons on Springs? We don't know yet. Like, nobody knows. Nothing's leaked out. Iron tight this ship that they run is, which, commendable to them, I do like to be surprised, you know, with a full reveal trailer, watching it for the first time and genuinely seeing everything, like not potato cam, right, but like actually here it is. So I was all excited for this. I thought it was going to happen on Friday, or at least we would get a nice teaser of like something that's not on a spring, and then nothing came. So the conventional wisdom was if we don't see something Friday, definitely Monday, because they've never had a media day where all the assets weren't out. And looking back to Kong, we got the full reveal trailer like two days before media were there, so that would totally make sense. And then what showed up in my inbox and inboxes around the pinball diaspora, but non-disclosure agreements from Stern Pinball, fairly boilerplate. They go for an exclusivity time of three years, which is nuts. I haven't signed mine yet. And, you know, to be honest, like if I was flying in and I knew I'd have to do this, maybe I wouldn't. You know, like the whole point of the media day is to be there and, like, live stream. That's what everybody's been saying to me, Donnie, to bring me with you. and if not go live while you're there so i can see like what's going on you know we want early access we're all salivating we love the new new the new and shiny and i'm happy to be there to oblige man i'm just like kid in a candy store i love new pinball more than just about anything else in the hobby like let me get in on it first like how often do you have a chance to walk up and push start on a game for the very first time only happens once and as much as i love our old Bally Williams games, like, I don't get that level of excitement for them, because they have already been played, but brand new? A brand new game made by, like, the best people in the industry, making the greatest games of all time right now in this golden era that we're surrounded in. Super hyped and excited about that. Who wouldn't be? You know, online trolls, apparently. So then we get this, right? And, you know, nice little marketing explanation. I know what happened, okay? And this is something that I revisit when I talk to folks involved in pinball developership when it comes to licensing. Because we all have this idea, right, of just go get this awesome license for this great movie that everybody loves and just make the game about that. And then, like, what could be harder, right? That seems so simple. The problem is a multitude of things. And this is what has soaking in through my conversations with pinball developers. And that is that licensors are a fickle bunch, right? and gradually over time they've been consolidating to get bigger and bigger so you go to find like say My Little Pony only to find out that it's not owned just by Hasbro, Hasbro's been bought by Mattel, it's been bought by the same parent company of Kraft Macaroni and Cheese, now it's all owned by Unilever, you know the people that would make soap and Irish Spring back in the days and now for some reason they own everything in the world and if it's not them it's Disney and if it's not them it's like Dreamworks or something and then there's like Viacom New Media and then Paramount is about to conglomerate into the biggest media whatever that ever existed. So you end up dealing with one of these big companies no matter what you do. And ultimately they hold all the cards for the entirety of the development process. And so this is a scary thing, right? You embark in this 18 months to 24 and sometimes longer development cycle for this game, and at any point, just like Lord Vader said on Bespin, the deal has altered, pray I don't alter it further. Like, they can come down and shut you down at any point. Look at Warner Brothers and JJP, man. You know, they're one of the big three pinball companies with, like, one of the greatest licenses of all time. And they tried to do something very simple and take their little Quidditch player, which wasn't even one of the main characters in the game, in the movies, or probably video games, too. But it was just a Quidditch player. And they were like, let's add a subtle little nod in here, a little Easter egg, that this was our 11th or 13th game or whatever it was. I think it was 11th. And so they were just going to put the number 11 on the back of the Quidditch jersey. Like, this is an homage that this is our 11th game or whatever. And that got found out, right, through the approvals process, submitting art, you know, submitting the production machine for final review. And it was like, what's this? What's this right here that you did? You can't do that. If you do that, we will pull our license completely. And if you try to sell this, we will sue you into oblivion. So they had to then back paddle. And, you know, I'm sure that happened after everything was already designed. Maybe somebody had already approved that art at one point. They can come back later and then change their mind and disapprove it. And you have no recourse because everything is owned by everybody or a small amount of people. If you run afoul of a licensor and get blacklisted, you're done, essentially. They're not going to take a chance on somebody that's going to misappropriate one of their properties, let alone a pinball company. My God. These companies exist to make money off these licenses, so they're fiercely protective of them. and if you try to sneak something through and they don't like it and they decide to just not work with you, like that's it. You're done, man. You're done. It doesn't matter if the sculpts have already been ordered and $90,000 tooling has been done and you can't get that money back because now there's 11s. Sorry, there's 11s. You can't have it anymore. You need to pay that five figures again to have everything run. It doesn't matter if the sculpts are already in games, in boxes, on trucks ready to be delivered. You're going to be recalling those, reimporting them, ripping the boxes open and tearing those out and putting new ones in. And that is a scary thing, you know, to embark on, you know, this endeavor that costs so much money. The building materials are so high. They're made in the United States, high labor costs and all that business, you know, dealing with tariffs for parts and everything. Your margins are ever squeezing. And then something like that happens that can wipe out the entire margin on the entire game and make it a total like non-project at that point. What the heck, man? How terrifying is that? How terrifying must that be? So on top of all that, right, you have the licensor you're working with. You're dude, right? You form a good relationship over the years, pass things back and forth. Okay, the art's approved. The layout's approved. Our machine's done. All right, production-wise, go ahead and go into production, guys. You did great. Great job, dude. Great job. Your check cleared. Go ahead. And then you turn around and you're like, okay, we need to start making pamphlets and marketing materials. We need to start shipping these off for people to livestream. we need to we've got this boss trailer that we had made we need to get this out now you have to deal with the marketing licensor person who comes in kind of late in the game now they have to do all the approvals again of everything that pertains to the marketing and the sale of this game and I think that's where Star Wars is at right now and probably the assumption was that all of this was probably going to be worked up and done but Disney is not in Stern's hurry You know, Stern has, you know, hot dogs ordered from Petillo's. They got pizzas ready to pick up. They got people with plane tickets that are inbound to Elk Grove Village to come play this new game and spread the word and, you know, get those nice day one sales numbers. And then you know the Disney group or whatever maybe they had something else that came up They went through their meeting and they just didn get to the Stern final approval for marketing by the EOD right The end of day So they're going to table that and they'll circle back. And then, oh, look, it's Thursday afternoon. We only do the four-day work week this week. Tomorrow's biz cash fry, but we only do a half day and we're not going to be able to get to it. And so now it's punted to the weekend. And then there's Stern. Like, we thought everything was going to be approved by Wednesday. And then if not Wednesday, for sure Thursday, now it's biz cash fry and everybody's off for the weekend. You know, they're OTC, right? They're off the clock now. And what do we do? We got these people coming in. So preemptively, I think they sent out this email. Here's the NDAs. Get them signed. Get them back into us. Now, thankfully, because a lot of us are bringing plus ones. If you're a Patreon member, you were eligible to get in on that. And I am taking a Patreon member to Stern for Media Day. You're welcome. That's amazing. I love that this is working. I want a plus five next time. but now I'm thinking shoot if they're cracking down on everybody and having us do NDAs like is this going to cut off the legs of the plus ones and thankfully Zach got back to me from Stern that's not the case everything's still ready to go just get the NDA signed into his inbox and then everything should be good so thank god for that but I mean this all could look at all the ripples and effects of everybody's lives and processes just because something that was probably as simple as just the hours ran out in the day and somebody went for a diet coke run and they were like, we'll just get to that on Monday, right? So I think there's still a chance, right? Nothing's going to happen over the weekend. But if Monday morning they're like, you know what, go ahead and release your trailer. We give you authorization. They may drop a trailer, you know, that day, Monday, and then the NDAs will become superfluous and then life will go on. Because Tuesday, distributors will be there in the morning to play the game and then get out and start working on those orders. And then all of us, media schleps will be there on Wednesday with plus ones and plus twos. It's going to be great. we're still going to be able to do that. But if we have to check our cell phones at the door, that's just going to be a level of lameness, you know, because we'll be there and we're really good about, you know, popping on Facebook lives, popping on Twitch, popping on YouTube. And like, we're here live. Here's the game. What do you want to know? Here's the people that made it. I will go walk over there and talk to the designer and ask him your weird question and we'll get it out right now. It's super fun to do that. And it'll just be that opportunity that's missed. we'll all have to go and see the game record our first impressions of it and then just sit on them until the embargo lifts and then all of a sudden there'll be a deluge of everybody's YouTube videos and everything so I know this is not the way that Stern wanted to do it and I don't think it's their fault at all and I think there's absolutely nothing that they can do about it because when the licensor says you guys need to do this it's like yes sir ma'am or however you'd like to be addressed that's what we're going to do for you So unfortunate for all of us. It's like Christmas morning, man, and then you tell me that Christmas is canceled or booted until next week, and it's like I feel like I'm seven years old and each day is an eternity while I'm waiting. So I'm trying to keep my mind occupied with other things. But that's a little bit, just a little bit I've been able to learn about licensing. How about this, right? We all want custom call-outs for these games, right? So something has changed recently within the industry, and that is that you're basically not only not allowed to pursue like say you sign Toxic Avenger and you want to go get the guy that was the actor in the rubber suit to do call outs for your game and you talk to the licensor everything's going great, you got approvals and art and all that is done and you're like hey we want to go talk to this guy and see if he can record a couple lines of dialogue and they'll look at you and say not only are you not allowed to do that but if we even hear that you're trying to contact that person you are absolutely blacklisted from everything here forth going forward and we're keeping your license or money, your fee that you've already paid. Like that is happening now. And here's the reason for it. Okay, so a studio makes a film, right? And then a lot of things happen with those rights, distribution rights, the licenses for the music and sounds and sound effects and everything sometimes get parted off and sold to who knows whoever, right? Somebody needs some money. They own the rights to like this back catalog of some of the songs that were used in whatever movie and they'll sell that off for some quick cash, right? So then if you want to use it, You've got to go down and find out who that person is. And so, you know, an actor shows up and gets paid a fee. Maybe they have some rights. Maybe they don't. It just depends on who they are and how they negotiated. You know, but this may be a film from 20 years ago, let's say. And you're like, you know what, we would like to go approach Liam Neeson or, you know, Kirk Douglas or Michael Keaton, the Keats. We want to get the Keats for Batman, let's say. just to record some funny stuff like insert coin joker or something um and they're like no we don't want you doing that the reason is because you may go to this actor and the movie they did 20 years ago can be completely in the back of their mind right and not not front of mind at all uh and then you go and approach them you're like hey you were in this movie we'd like to pay you some money to record some dialogue we're making a pinball machine how fun right how fun and then they find out pinball machine that sounds great let me get back to you they call their agent and they're like hey, I didn't know anything about this pinball machine. Nobody asked me for approvals. Go back, dig up that old dusty contract and see if I have any say over this so I can see if I can get a cut of that licensing fee that they signed with these guys. Maybe they're trying to pull a fast one. Hint, sometimes they are. Sometimes they are. And so then, now this is front of mind. I did that movie 20 years ago. Agent, get on them. We need a meeting right now. What rights do I have? And then maybe they have no rights to the licensing of the pinball fee or anything. but in the process of this, it dredges up, oh, hey, you know what? There is a clause in your contract about international distribution of this film. After 10 years, you do get a cut of that, and they have been having this film on streaming in Asia in certain markets, and we haven't been getting a cut of that at all. And so now you've stirred up this mess for the licensor, right, where they may have to pay court fees and back settlements and things, and so they just don't even want to deal with that. so nowadays it's very very difficult to get those custom call outs that we used to have back in the day i'm playing star trek the next generation over here valley williams and there's custom call outs from the actors in that you know thank you mr data you know when your ball drains and he like berates you in his android voice um or you know looking good mike mr dorn like that's hilarious man michael dorn warf voice you know um and so like you could do that back then nowadays with how litigious things are. You know, didn't Katy Perry win, like, multiple millions of dollars or something? Or, like, Taylor Swift, like, re-recorded her old back catalog for reasons. So, like, there's just a no. It's just a no. The reason it happened with Evil Dead is because Bruce Campbell, with the foresight of a madman genius, decided to have ownership rights of his likeness there. So he's actually one of the part-license holders of Evil Dead, one or two or somewhere in there. So they actually had to go to him for approvals for things. So good on him for having that foresight to gain that. And then look at the game that we got and the amazing custom call-outs from that guy. Fantastic. But nowadays, difficult. Predator came out. And, like, there's no way you could get custom call-outs from Arnold. Absolutely not. Getting his likenesses from the film and his audio from the film is definitely possible, but that's a cost. That's money, and it would eat up probably all their meager margins, right? And for a game that's selling as it is, I don't see it happening. But that's kind of like what I've learned with pinball licensing. So when I saw the NDA show up in my inbox with this little message, I was not surprised, and immediately I got a sense on exactly what's happening and what they're up against. But I don't think it means that everything is for sure out. Monday morning, if they walk in and get a fax that, hey, everything's approved here, you're good to go, they can go hit publish on that video that's probably, hopefully they have the foresight they're not already preloaded to YouTube with an embargo for their waiting. But we may still see that by that time. And so we may be able to get there and do all of our live streams and everything. How fun would that be? That's what I hope happens. And I think there's a chance of it happening. Let's see what happens going forward. That's the big Star Wars news. Isn't there a game in here as well? Is it all just licensing stuff? So they've been doing a good job. I like these streams of these older Star Wars games that Jack's been doing. The most recent one, George Gomez had popped on there too talking about some audio business with Spike 3 and all that. And they've been showing off little sculpts of the game. I like this. Obviously they can't show off little clips or quick little teaser trailers of the game in action, but they were able to show us the Jabba sculpt, the Millennium Falcon, and there's a Death Star. And it looks like the Death Star's got a machined bite taken out of the back of it, so maybe it'll be sitting on a wire form or something. If we are shooting up into it, I hope it's a nice smoother shot than the one we got before. A great moment in pinball, but dang, it's difficult to get up there. So I like that they've shared some of that, but that's really all we have to know about this game And even at this late stage a couple of days before media day I still have not seen leak number one and i here for it man i i i imagine this not seeing anything at all and then walking in and seeing the game for the first time like the first time you see the game is when it's actually in front of you that hasn't happened to me since i was a child in an arcade uh so that is super fun what else is going on galactic tank force got an update i don't know why i threw that in here oh i was going to mention in my licensing spiel uh the genius of david fix right his idea to go for mainly original licenses. That avoids all of this business. You can hire whoever you want to do custom call-outs. You can do the art however you want. You can do the animations however you want. This comes at a cost of you need to come up with a compelling story and you need to be the storyteller and get this message out there and that's a big ask. We haven't seen anything about Star Wars and we already know that this game is going to be selling out its first runs several times just due to the strength of the license. You don't get that with an original theme. Legends of Ahala didn't have that. Halfway decent game, and if you want to get a game with actual mirrored back glass and probably really low plays for around $5,000 or less, Legends of Ahala, I think you could do worse. I think you could do worse. But I just wanted to mention and give some kudos to the genius of David Fix when it comes to his original themes. But, you know, it's fraught with issues because you have to have the design talent there to really create something magical, and I think that was the missing little piece of nutmeg that would have made some of these games amazing. But if you've got a Galactic Tank Force, go ahead and get yourself an update, man. It's out. They're still alive. They're still breathing. I love it. I love an American Pinball or Orbit or Funs Up or whoever they are this week. I wish them well. Speaking of bad ideas, Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland. Why is this even back as a topic of discussion? This game that bilked seniors out of their savings through fraudulent means. It's lost in the courts now. What even happened to this guy? Did he get pardoned? I don't know. This is a project that's cursed, right? All the Deep Root assets went to liquidation. Chris Turner swooped in, got a bunch of them, and he sold off some of the John Papadiuk stuff. That's how we ended up with Alice's Adventures in Amsterdam, which we've talked about ad nauseum. You know, get it. It's a pretty game with some shallow gameplay, and if you really want to buy a fantastic-looking game to put in your arcade and not really play it, hell of a way to go. but now I'm hearing that Raza is being in the works. Good job for Turner, man, for selling that, man. Just high five. What a guy. I would have done exactly the same thing. Yeah, because I would not have made that game. And even if this game looked amazing, which it doesn't, I still wouldn't make it just because of all the bad energy that's attached to it, man. We talk about rerunning games that were done by questionable designers in the past. That's nothing compared to this game that literally hurt seniors and became totally crime-ridden from top to bottom. And I'm not convinced that this was a viable product at all during its development cycle. This was all just a shell game to get money. The art looks okay. The concept is all right. The layout looks half-baked. This doesn't look like a playable layout. This looks like an interesting concept or like a homebrew that you can tweak and get to working okay at shows. But for production, what is this game, man? It's like three plastic ramps and you're at some kind of carnival or something. I mean, if this thing was rethemed to be like the Fego Armageddon and the Dark Carnival for the Insane Clown Posse, I think it might have a chance. But as far as it is Raza, and then from what I'm hearing now, getting back to me, late breaking, that this is going to be coming from DPX and even higher costs than Alice, I don't see any way that this thing gets off the ground at all. and even if it did, I think just on principle, I'd have problems supporting it, man, right? Come on. You know, just the human rights abuses tied to this title just sour and poison the well, let alone I don't think we've seen anything great from these John Papadiuk designs that have been resurrected and turned into working things. I'm looking at you, Magic Girl. You're pretty to look at, but I wouldn't buy you. Alice, the sameness, I'm sure it'll be pretty to look at, especially if you hire Stumbler and especially if you get Lior, but their talents could be so much better served at something else. Just make your own game. It can even be a throwback zombie amusement park. I think it could be done much better than what I'm looking at with these, you know, 2019 images from Deep Root, of all things. So buyer beware. Putting some caution out there. I don't think I would want to support this project at all. Would I play it at a show? Probably. probably, but like, oh, God, it just, the whole thing just makes me nauseous thinking about it. Speaking of product shipping after being initially promised two years ago, Cactus Canyon, saw them on pallets, in boxes, going out. They did it. Oh, God. You know, I mean, we know CGC, the company that makes just amazing products. I've got one of their Pulp Fictions. I'm loving it. I'm not having nary an issue with it, knock on wood. But gosh darn, they take a long time to get. And just imagine all the excitement that's just out of the tank now for Cactus Canyon owners. You got this game. Remember, this was released like when Halloween was. This was a long time ago. So you waited two years to get your game. You've had your game for a couple of years now. And I'm sure with as shallow as that gameplay is, even though it's a classic, even though it is fun, I think a lot of people, myself included, I would have moved it on by now. Like, I just wouldn't have been playing it as much anymore. Newer things could have came out. You know, the price has kind of fallen. So I would have jumped out. And then, you know, now we're finally getting this kit. It's a pricey bit of kit as well for this new code and the swinging saloon door, which, I mean, I played. I didn't even really notice there was anything really different there. I saw there was kind of an archway going over it, but I played it at TPF. You know, I put a game on it. Okay, lackluster. I couldn't see, like, where's the spinning saloon door issue. or whatever. I didn't really notice much in the way of new code for it. It's a funnish game, and I guess the one to own now would be one with this kit. They're finally out, but I think the enthusiasm has just completely dried up. I don't think I would have hung on to the game for this long. I would have been already upset that I had to wait so long to get it, let alone have the playability still be there by the time this kit comes out. But, I mean, if you've got one, go ahead and grab one. If you haven't bought a Cactus Canyon, now might not be a bad time to get one now these things are shipping um but gosh just just a little more frustrating than i think it needed to be um but i'm glad they're out and and god if you hung on to your game for this long hell maybe it's your favorite game and you'll love it yeah i love that for you man i love that for you so um invite me over i want to come play it i want to come check it out speaking of stuff shipping um also on the same now parkade post my buddy chris turner been talking to him a lot this week, it seems like. Just privately back and forth. They're doing well. They're getting their Merlin's Arcades out. No word on numbers of how much they sold. I don't know if we'll ever know, but I'm glad they're leaving the factory. That's awesome, man. You order a game from Turner, you're going to get what appears to be a well-built game from Turner and well supported. Ninja Clips just got a code update, so still supporting the game that only had 100 of sales that went out there, but they're being supported with code updates. I'm sure Merlin's Arcade It'll be supported with code updates. I wish Merlin's Arcade was supported with a couple of extra ramps and a few more mechanisms that were a little more compelling there. And upper play field, would have killed you. And something to visually lock the balls into would have been kind of cool. Maybe like a flask or something. I don't know. Maybe that's up to the modders to make, so get creative out there. Put a little bit more CSI into it, and I would have been really interested. It is a very yellow machine, but I do like the smoothness of the shots that are in there and I would like more Merlin's arcades out so I can get to play them and I'm also looking forward to what's down the road from Turner because I know Raza's not coming from that guy and yeah I think he sold off the John Papadiuk designs so we'll see I tried to pry out of them are we going to see more original themes from you are you going to go back to the well of designs where you drew Merlin's arcade from or are we going to see a whole new licensed concept yes please that please that you've had some time you can prove you can build and ship games i really like your light board designs i like your modular assembly that you do uh where you know if you need to put another component it just kind of plugs right in there i love the way the glass just kind of comes off in one piece i love the light little flipper taps that you can do um and so i would like to see that wrapped up in like just a killer modern theme that we can't resist that everybody just wants to get and the thing we're seeing over and over is like turner pinball what number you on When's my number coming up? When's my game ready? Can I come down and pick it up? How can I jump the line? That's what I want to see. I want to see just the 500 units sell out immediately and just that compelling awesomeness from Turner. All eyes are on you, buddy. Will there be something new at TPF this year? Haven't heard anything, and I don't want to put that energy on him if he's not ready. But it would be awesome I looking forward to it man I looking forward to it Merlin Arcade fun to play Speaking of games that are fun to play this week game of the week for me has been Dungeons Dragons And my boy Enzo over in Australia already sold his game. And while he did appreciate the design and everything there, he did not think the shots were that makeable or that compelling. And I don't know. Maybe I'm just a little bit different. Obviously, I am. Star Wars from Stern is so far one of my favorite games that I have. and it's not leaving anywhere, so don't try to buy it. And I'm tricking the thing out. There's a mirrored back glass on it. Never came with an LE. Now I got one, and it looks just amazing. My God, I love this Star Wars. D&D, man, it's scratching the itch for me. The gameplay, the lore, the quests, the unlockable stuff, like this is all the parts I loved about Venom in a much better layout. I love this game. It's not perfect. There are some flaws and some things that I would like to improve upon it, but I'm having a hell of a blast with this thing. Like, you know, I'm generally getting above a million points every time I play. There's different ways to play it. Sometimes you're focused on quests. Other times, you know, you're trying to get both multi-balls and playing in the dungeon so you can then go play the tiny dice game. When you're in certain quests, like, you can't qualify or move or make progress towards a dragon or some of the other multi-balls. So you kind of have to decide, like, am I in quest mode or am I in everything else mode? Drawback for the game, I wish the dragon did more during the game. Imagine this. I've got a premium here, so dragon spits balls. Amazing. So far, the only time you ever see that is in the dragon multiball. That's it. Otherwise, he moves around, but he doesn't really drop and, like, interact in the gameplay. There's no modes that incorporate bashing him in the face, which is, I think, a miss. I think that should be happening. You know, some of the shots are, well, they'll get very creative. You know, certain stealth missions, you need to avoid the slings, and if you hit them too many times, you wake up a monster you have to defeat. other times you can hit shots to stun enemies and keep them from moving around the play field that's fun but I never see the dragon head mechanic come into play and the dragon head as a bashable toy is in all three versions of the game so I'm hoping with every code release we see some modes incorporate the dragon incorporate the Michael Dorn voice more and what if you have a ball save and your ball drains just like a quick lock you can have one fire out of the dragon so you're right back in the gameplay without it having to go to the shooter lane every time. Kind of what I was expecting when I first saw this mechanism, and I'm still waiting for it to be incorporated. There's a lot of really good people working on this game and doing the code. My girl Elizabeth is over there. Fun fact, when you're in attract mode and they start going through the credits, the created characters for each one of the main people, the designers, Dwight Sullivan is in there. I think Elizabeth is listed, and they've knocked a wall out of the dungeon, and there's an old Amiga-looking computer sitting over there for the programmer. and all the composers and things and the artists for the games each have their own characters and their own alignment and special skills that are in there. The artist, he does Photoshop and profanity are his two attributes and he's chaotic good or something. Super fun little things to watch and see in there. I don't remember ever seeing that before so that may have come with a new code update or I've just never been paying attention in a track mode. I played through the game again and a month or so ago I reset all my progress because I was told to do that between code updates. Don't recommend it. But I had the bard unlocked because I went all the way through the game. That final wizard mode with the six dragons and all that. Just did it again last night and it's a hell of a rush to get through there. There's a multi-level stage you have to get through in one game in order to get to that last mode. You start off fighting trolls and they're pretty hard and then you get to fight some other enemies and then you get up to some master with the tyrant's die staff and he's invisible and you have to hit stand-up targets until you find the right one that shows the shots where he's at and then you can damage him and everything and if you can get through all of that then you have to decide if you want to you know go through the portal after the staff or you want to finish some master i've done both of those now they're both fun quick little modes and then if you're still alive then you get to the like the battle of the six dragons or something and then that's when the ball save kicks in and each mode as you're fighting each dragon, it starts off with a quick little hurry up where you're hitting green shots and each one adds you like a virtual ball lock for the actual battle. Then it's a multiball battle with a very generous ball save. So I think once you get to that mode, the game's set up to allow you to complete it. And it's a rush. It's super fun, man. Some things are revealed during it and then you get the bard character. And so I'm still waiting for the other two pathways to open up because there's supposed to be two other characters that you can unlock. They're all inserts on the play field. We're up to code 9.95 now, so I thought by now they would be there, but I've got my damn bard back, so I can start doing the bard quest lines again, and then I'm just kind of waiting and anticipating that we'll get another code update that will unlock those other battles, and we can finally see how those go, and I finally got off my butt, and I've got the D&D topper together, people on the Discord, I've been leaking images over there, it's looking cool, it's a big dungeon wall with a giant skull coming out of a portal, and torches on the wall that light up with the game, and now I'm adding some extra little treasure chests and things and little flashing stuff. It's really coming together finally, man. I don't know if I'll ever make it as a product because there is a ton of work involved in this, but it looks pretty boss. The people have showed it off to me so far. They're digging it. One place you will probably see it is at the Homebrew Topper competition at Expo. It's going on for the entirety of the show Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Voting is on Saturday. The public is voting, and the one with the most votes wins themselves a topper from the electric playground. their brand new King Kong topper. You get one for free just by making a compelling topper and soliciting enough votes from the public through its awesomeness to get there. So the only thing you have to do to enter is bring your topper on by and stick it up at the shelf. We're going to have a booth right there by the homebrew area. It's going to be awesome. And when you check in, you should be getting a voting ticket. And just for voting, you're entered in a chance to win some cool stuff. I've got some playfields to give away. It's going to be great. and anybody else out there listening, if you're a professional in the industry or you got some t-shirts or something you want to donate for prizes and then put your name up, happy to do it, man. Send it to me and I'll just go down the list in the order of finalists and everybody gets a prize as long as prizes are in stock. Let's do that. I'm going to bring some of my toppers to enter. I won't be claiming a prize, but I want to go in there and solicit votes just for my own ego, but I'll definitely defer any prizes won to the next person on down the line. It's going to be fun, man. I can't wait. and I may have some t-shirts there for sale. Let's segue into that. I got two new t-shirt designs that are available. The We Are Pinball Contra-inspired NES cart logo done by Michael Michael Barnard of Pinball fame, Jaws and Rush. Phenomenal. My first ones are already sold out and I'm getting restocked this coming week. So if you want to be in on the next one, I got any size, they're gray shirts, so they look like the NES cartridge and it's got me and Cengiz as the two guys on the front of Contra and says we are pinball and there's a little bit of profanity there as well for good measure. But if you want to get in on one of those, just email us either at wearepinball69 at gmail.com or donspinballpodcast at gmail.com. And I'll get you on the list for one of the first ones. We'll get them up and get them out to you in your size. Also, I've got a holiday shirt for Don's Pinball Podcast. I've got a new logo that's very much holiday inspired. It's a very lovable kind of early 90s, late 80s family horror theme graphic that I did a take on. It looks phenomenal, and those will be going out here in the next week as well. So if you want to get yourself a cool Halloween shirt early and support the podcast for just $30 delivered to your door, go ahead and email me, donspinballpodcast at gmail.com, and then I'll have you there. So as soon as they hit my door, I'll be getting them out right away to you with stickers and other stuff too. I never send out a blank bag of nothing. So that's everything as I know it now. I'm excited to see the Star Wars game soon. And there's got to be a way that even under NDA I can convey if this is like, go ahead and purchase this thing or maybe wait and play it first. So look for some subtle hints. Maybe I'll describe an Italian dinner I had while I was in Chicago, and I either cared for it or I didn't. You know, completely unrelated to pinball and completely not in violation for any NDA. But maybe I'll tell you about a dinner that I have and if I recommend it and all that business. All right. Anything else? I think that's it for right now. I'm going to head over to Wisconsin Dells and go play in some arcades and get some lunch. Y'all be good. Today's Saturday. Tomorrow morning, Sunday, Don Takular. Let's get it. And you know that email address, donspinballpodcast.gmail.com. You can also go to patreon.com backslash donspinballpodcast. Join for as low as $5. Then when things happen like this NDA business, you'll find out about it right away, like everybody over on Patreon did. Shout out to Joe. I'm glad you're back in the crew, man. We're having fun over there.

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 3c1f0102-0192-4322-a658-707a6ba3e35f*