# Episode 97 – Shut Up and Take My Money!! **Source:** Head2Head Pinball **Type:** podcast_episode **Published:** 2019-06-24 **Duration:** 102m 8s **Beat:** Pinball **URL:** https://www.head2headpinball.com/2019/06/24/episode-97-shut-up-and-take-my-money/ --- ## Analysis Martin and Joe discuss Stern's announcement of a new Black Knight code update and mysterious "physical game enhancement" exclusive to Premium/LE models, debate Steve Ritchie's design legacy across Stern games (particularly Star Wars as a letdown), discuss Cosmic Carnival entering production at Suncoast Pinball with cautious optimism, and note Deep Root Pinball's stated position against international distribution. ### Key Claims - [HIGH] Stern will reveal a new physical game enhancement for Black Knight Premium/LE that will 'extend the upper playfield gameplay experience' — _Official Stern announcement cited by hosts; revealed for June 24 stream_ - [HIGH] Black Knight code update includes new Ransom Wizard mode with Black Knight 2000 sound/speech and a new Last Chance feature with Super Catapult Multiball — _Official Stern announcement; hosts discussing implications_ - [MEDIUM] Last time Stern released a major physical enhancement was WrestleMania with new lighting harness for wrestling ring — _Martin's recollection; not independently verified_ - [MEDIUM] Star Wars under Steve Ritchie represents evolutionary rather than revolutionary design after Star Trek — _Martin's opinion based on layout analysis_ - [HIGH] Cosmic Carnival is finally in production at Suncoast Pinball — _Joe states this explicitly; cites recent news_ - [HIGH] Deep Root Pinball stated they do not intend to sell internationally at this time — _Direct quote from UK Pinball Club outreach to Deep Root_ - [HIGH] Black Knight Pro has just arrived in Australia; Premium/LE versions are 'ages away' — _Martin's direct observation of Australian market timing_ - [MEDIUM] Highway Pinball showed production pictures that weren't actually producing things — _Martin's claim; comparing startup credibility to Suncoast_ ### Notable Quotes > "Stern will reveal a new physical game enhancement that will extend the upper playfield gameplay experience." > — **Martin (reading official announcement)**, early in episode > _Central mystery driving the discussion; vague enough to generate speculation_ > "So Steve Ritchie. He's always been my favourite designer. Always... And Star Wars, still for me, was a letdown, right?" > — **Martin**, mid-episode > _Sets up discussion of Ritchie's design legacy and whether he's 'done'_ > "It's almost like, 'Here's your second chance.' So I'm just keen to play it to see whether I get that, 'Fuck, I love Steve Ritchie again.'" > — **Martin**, mid-episode > _Frames Black Knight as potential redemption for Ritchie after Star Wars disappointment_ > "It trains you to only take... It has a cool strategy where it puts you in dangerous situations and then makes you think about how you can safely – or at least get paid out enough to justify that dangerous action." > — **Joe**, late-mid-episode > _Articulates Black Knight's core metagame design philosophy_ > "I don't know. I kind of am really, really interested in it. And I have a reason for thinking that, but I can't say it." > — **Joe (re: Cosmic Carnival)**, latter half > _Hints at inside information or knowledge Joe cannot disclose publicly_ > "We in Australia will never see it. Do you think you'll ever see it?" > — **Martin (re: Cosmic Carnival)**, latter half > _Expresses skepticism about Cosmic Carnival reaching location/arcade market internationally_ > "Thank you for reaching out. We do not intend to sell internationally at this time. If this changes, we will make an announcement." > — **Deep Root Pinball (via UK Pinball Club outreach)**, late in episode > _Direct statement of international distribution policy from Deep Root_ ### Entities | Name | Type | Context | |------|------|---------| | Martin | person | Co-host of Head to Head Pinball podcast; Australian; plays pinball and discusses design critically | | Joe | person | Co-host of Head to Head Pinball podcast; provides technical/gameplay insights; hints at insider knowledge on some topics | | Steve Ritchie | person | Legendary Stern pinball designer; designed Star Wars, Star Trek, Game of Thrones, AC/DC, Spider-Man, and other Stern cornerstones; subject of design legacy debate | | Black Knight | game | Stern Pinball machine with upper playfield; receiving new code update and mysterious physical enhancement for Premium/LE; controversial reception | | Star Wars | game | Stern Pinball designed by Steve Ritchie; criticized by Martin as letdown lacking innovation; criticized for ball entry and loop mechanics | | Star Trek | game | Stern Pinball designed by Steve Ritchie; referenced as 'absolute perfection' as far as Ritchie's layouts; widely praised | | Cosmic Carnival | game | Suncoast Pinball's debut game; recently entered production; features Dirty Donnie artwork and challenge modes; positioned as unique experience | | Suncoast Pinball | company | New boutique pinball manufacturer; producing Cosmic Carnival; received cautiously optimistic reception from community | | Deep Root Pinball | company | Pinball manufacturer; stated no intention to sell internationally at this time via UK Pinball Club inquiry | | Stern Pinball | company | Major pinball manufacturer; releasing Black Knight code updates; subject of Gary Stern interview discussed at episode start | | Game of Thrones | game | Stern Pinball designed by Steve Ritchie; praised for playfield layout; discussed in context of Ritchie's best works | | AC/DC | game | Stern Pinball designed by Steve Ritchie; Joe's pick for Ritchie's greatest game; rules by Lyman Sheets | | Spider-Man | game | Stern Pinball; compared to Vault remake; discussed for callouts (Jameson) and animations; Martin loves original callouts | | Vault (Spider-Man) | game | Stern Pinball remake of Spider-Man; removes Jameson and original callouts; criticized for mode quality and aesthetic changes | | Keith Elwin | person | Referenced in context of streaming Black Knight gameplay; legendary designer name invoked | | Lyman Sheets | person | Rules designer for AC/DC; referenced in context of AC/DC's quality | | DeadFlip | person/entity | Streaming Black Knight code reveal on June 24 | | Deadpool | game | Stern Pinball referenced as 'way better game' and character than Spider-Man; mentioned in designer comparison | | World Poker Tour | game | Stern Pinball designed by Steve Ritchie; criticized for distant back-of-playfield shots; shooter's/tournament game | | Elvis | game | Stern Pinball designed by Steve Ritchie; criticized by Joe for not enjoying despite potential appeal with more play | | Highway Pinball | company | Startup manufacturer; shown production pictures that weren't actually producing; referenced as cautionary tale vs. Suncoast | | Multimorphic (P3) | game/platform | Homebrew pinball platform; referenced as similarly difficult to see on-site; Joe happens to know someone with one | | UK Pinball Club | organization | Reached out to Deep Root Pinball regarding international distribution | ### Topics - **Primary:** Black Knight code update and physical enhancement mystery, Steve Ritchie's design legacy and evolution vs. revolution, Cosmic Carnival production status and market accessibility - **Secondary:** Deep Root Pinball's international distribution strategy, Startup pinball manufacturer credibility and community skepticism, Upper playfield design challenges and player feedback - **Mentioned:** Spider-Man vs. Vault remake comparison ### Sentiment **Mixed** (0.55) — Hosts express cautious optimism about Black Knight code update and Cosmic Carnival's promise, tempered by skepticism about upper playfield design, historical startup failures (Highway, Deep Root), and Ritchie's recent design trajectory (Star Wars letdown). Positive tone toward boutique manufacturers' efforts but guarded about deliverables. ### Signals - **[business_signal]** Deep Root Pinball's explicit rejection of international sales suggests resource constraints, manufacturing capacity limitations, or strategic decision to focus on US home market initially (confidence: medium) — UK Pinball Club inquiry response from Deep Root: 'We do not intend to sell internationally at this time. If this changes, we will make an announcement.' - **[business_signal]** Suncoast Pinball's Cosmic Carnival entered production; new boutique manufacturer receiving cautiously optimistic community reception despite history of startup failures (confidence: high) — Joe: 'the news item this week is that apparently it's finally in production.' Martin expresses hope 'for a company like this that really just came out of nowhere... that you can't say we've heard any ill feelings towards Suncoast Pinball at all.' - **[community_signal]** Community sentiment shifting from enthusiastic funding of startups to cautious skepticism; 'I'll believe it when I see it' approach replacing early-stage blind faith due to repeated failures (confidence: medium) — Joe: 'everyone's been burnt in various different degrees, so people are a little more cautious about how excited they get for things.' Martin: 'everyone is still looking with a skeptical eye that's like, 'Yeah, I'll believe it when I see it.'' - **[competitive_signal]** Cosmic Carnival positioned at Jersey Jack price point but targeting unique modular/challenge-mode gameplay differentiating it from traditional premium manufacturers (confidence: medium) — Joe: 'The price is the same price as a Jersey Jack. So it's like, but those still are making their way onto location, so it can't be that either.' - **[design_philosophy]** Black Knight's upper playfield criticized as bare bones and chaotic with limited shot variety (orbit, lock, stand-up) creating 'a lot of space for three shots'; community feedback suggests it's 'not as fun as it could have been' (confidence: high) — Joe: 'That's a lot of space for three shots.' Martin: 'that's what we know really. The feedback is it's just not as fun as it could have been.' - **[design_philosophy]** Black Knight features punishing, mean gameplay with all middle shots protected by rubber-backed posts; designed as metagame of 'how to safely accomplish dangerous things' requiring controlled play and decision-making (confidence: high) — Joe: 'If you miss – because I don't remember there being too many games that all the shots were protected by posts with rubber on them... everything in the middle is rubber-protected. So if you miss those, get ready because that ball flies back at you so quick you can't do anything about it.' - **[leak_detection]** Joe hints at undisclosed knowledge about Cosmic Carnival with statement 'I have a reason for thinking that, but I can't say it' suggesting insider information or confidential development details (confidence: medium) — Joe: 'I kind of am really, really interested in it. And I have a reason for thinking that, but I can't say it. But bottom line is, I can understand that a new company that's trying to do something new may actually deliver us a unique experience.' - **[market_signal]** Boutique manufacturers (Cosmic Carnival, Suncoast, Deep Root) positioning themselves for home collector market rather than location/arcade operations; uncertain international distribution strategies limiting global reach (confidence: medium) — Martin: 'We in Australia will never see it... unless I know somebody that's got one.' Deep Root: 'We do not intend to sell internationally at this time.' - **[community_signal]** Implicit suggestion of Steve Ritchie potentially losing creative momentum or relevance at Stern; Black Knight positioned as test of whether his design approach still resonates (confidence: medium) — Martin frames Black Knight as potential revitalization moment: 'I'm just keen to play it to see whether I get that, 'Fuck, I love Steve Ritchie again.'' - **[product_strategy]** Black Knight Premium/LE availability significantly delayed in Australia; only Pro has arrived; hosts note 'ages away' for Premium/LE versions despite Pro release being 'a long time ago' (confidence: high) — Martin: 'by the time this podcast goes out on Monday night, I'm hoping that I would have had a chance to have played it. But certainly not even the LE or the Premium. They're ages away. I mean, again, pros have just arrived.' - **[product_strategy]** Stern announcing mysterious 'physical game enhancement' for Black Knight Premium/LE that will 'extend upper playfield gameplay experience' - likely addressing community feedback about bare upper playfield design (confidence: high) — Official Stern announcement: 'Stern will reveal a new physical game enhancement that will extend the upper playfield gameplay experience.' Hosts speculate it could be ball save, suspended bumpers, or modified orbits. - **[sentiment_shift]** Martin's confidence in Steve Ritchie's design skills declining; Star Wars represented letdown that raised question 'am I done with Steve Ritchie layouts?'; views Black Knight as 'second chance' for designer redemption (confidence: high) — Martin: 'And Star Wars, still for me, was a letdown, right?... am I done with Steve Ritchie layouts?... It's almost like, 'Here's your second chance.'' --- ## Transcript Welcome everybody to the head-to-head pinball podcast this is episode 97 my name's martin and with me joe hello joe martin how are you yeah good that was interesting yeah so yeah that's that's what we like to do here yeah interesting we we absolutely do um well let's just do a quick recap from last week only because i just wanted to thank everybody for sending us messages of praise for the Gary Stern interview and I think probably the summary of the feedback was we managed to get more information from Gary than most people have been able to do, which I think is actually quite good. Yeah, I thought it was pretty informative. You did a good job. I mean, obviously, I would have done a better job. No, because you would have. No, I know that would have been expected. But we deal with what we have, right? We do. Exactly. That was the best we could do at the time with the tools that we had. And it wouldn't have sounded nearly as cool. I don't have such an amazing accent, so... That's probably also true. So there you go. So, but speaking of Stern, one of the very informative news items that we've got this week, so much news in the pinball world. There's been an announcement from Stern today. By today, I mean it's Saturday morning in Australia and it's Friday night in America, I'm assuming. I mean, I don't care really. Nailed it. Is it? Okay, cool. And so, well, I've said Stern Pimble will be revealing new Black Knight code and a new physical game enhancement only for the premium and limited edition models this Monday, June 24. What could that be, Joe? Yeah, the physical game enhancement is the thing that I jumped out and went, what does that mean? Because it makes it seem like they're altering the play field in some way. which would be weird because I believe premiums are out already or LEs are out or something. I know that some people have upper play field games. I don't know which version of them they are. I believe that the LEs come first before the premiums. So it seems weird that if they've already made a ton of them, what this enhancement might be. Maybe it's an accessory, but they're making it sound like it's something that is going to be very intricate to the game. So I don't know. so and i it's not really a common practice for stern to come out and say here is a physical enhancement i think and you can tell me whether i'm wrong and we're not talking about things like toppers because toppers were already already in the plan and this is just for the premium and limited edition and toppers for all um but i think the last time i think stern really did okay here is something that is physical that you need to install that enhances your game was with WrestleMania where they had a whole new sort of harness that was on there to actually change the lighting choreography for, in particular, the wrestling ring up the top. But I don't even know if many people actually... I didn't know about that. Got it. Yeah. So I know that they've done stuff in the past for... I know they had springs for Avatar and then later ACDC, and then they also had a kit to fix air balls on Transformers on the LEs and premiums due to the air balls. Those are the last things I remember. So I think the only thing that really is a problem that everyone's talked about with Black Knight is the lock shot where the ball rattles around or it gets stuck. I've said that a lot on the streams. Is that something that you've experienced? um nope i have not seen any of the premium le playfields around here and the only stream that i've seen that had it was their stream yep so the first one so i actually have no idea what the this could be it could mean i mean basically i mean i since fun isn't a physical game enhancement so that can't be it no nice but again that's what i'm trying to say like what would be you know it must be the upper playfield that they're enhancing because everything else on the Pro is pretty much the same, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, I don't know. It's weird. I mean, from just looking at it and not playing it, I'm not a big fan of the upper playfield. Like, if you compare it to, say, 2000, like 2000 had two sets of lanes. It had an orbit that fed to the upper flipper, you know, and like this one, the orbit kind of just feeds into space and then it bounces around. It's not like a direct feed and there's no lanes. Well, they also have pop bumpers up there as well. So this is quite bare bones. And I think we talked about this before. They kind of had to do that. If they were going for a clear upper play field, you really can't put pop bumpers on that, really, because you've got to have the ball being able to go underneath it. No, yeah, correct. I mean, I don't think that pop bumpers would enhance it much, but, like, I don't know, lanes or more of a guide so that it was a controlled, like, shot or feed to the flipper to continue loops. Because, like, when I watched it, I remember, like, Keith was doing it, and, you know, it wasn't registering at the time because it just wasn't plugged in. But, like, the ball would come around, and then it'd kind of bounce. It would, like, bounce off, and then it'd bounce off the thing, and then he'd hit it again. so like it's just it's very chaotic which maybe you know maybe that's on purpose and the loops will be more valuable because they're not as repeatable but it just seems very barren because you have the orbit you have the lock and then you have the stand up the lights the lock and that's it like that's a lot of space for three shots okay well here we go so it does say stern will reveal a new physical game enhancement that will extend the upper playfield gameplay experience so what the heck does that mean I don't know what that does that mean I don't know what do they do to extend it I don't know some kind of a ball save so that you're up there for longer maybe that's what they mean by extend I don't know maybe it is a pop bumper cluster that you can just stick in the middle of the playfield maybe it's suspended like P3 Yeah, it could be. So I don't know. I've not played it. We're recording on a Saturday morning here, and Friday night we actually now do have a pro black night here in Australia. And by the time this podcast goes out on Monday night, I'm hoping that I would have had a chance to have played it, but certainly not even the LA or the premium. They're ages away. I mean, again, pros have just arrived. How long ago did this machine come out? A while. A long time. We just... It just takes ages to get here. But they also said that there is a new Ransom Wizard mode featuring sound, speech, and display effects from Black Knight 2000. There's also a new Last Chance feature allowing players to continue the action of their gaming experience with an enhanced Super Catapult Multiball. Yeah, the second one clearly is from people bitching that the Retro mode doesn't sound like Black Knight 2000. I've heard that from so many people. It's like, that's not what it's for. Look at the back. God, this is original Black Knight. I know. So then they're like, oh, so, okay, cool. That's cool. As far as the second one, I mean, I find it weird that it's super catapult multiball because if I remember correctly, the last chance feature was more or less, hey, you have some balls locked and you lost your ball. We'll give you the other two balls. That's right. And then you can have like a lesser multiball. but this one seems to make it sound like it's better than the regular multiball like super and last chance was only on the last ball wasn't it it wasn't like if you'd lock something on ball 1 or ball 2 that it would release it was only on your last ball correct because then it was more or less because they were going to release it anyway at the end of the game so they're just like sure we'll release it early so you can continue so it doesn't seem they make it seem like super catapult so it's like is that better than catapult and if that's the case why would you reward someone for draining if that's still where the last chance is i don't know we'll see i mean they they are saying that the code is exclusive for premium and limited edition models and new pro code is coming soon so you know i make me go look at the play field it really is and i i i'm really keen i even though um you know it's been i would say controversial the whole black knight thing there still is that new pinball experience you know when you do go up to a machine for the first time and you just you just look at the playfield and you go oh my god this is something I haven't seen in pinball regardless and the excitement's there and then you know you push start and your mileage may vary so I don't know yeah and it's a great game and it's just weird. Yeah, I don't know. So many people here are just like, oh, we're complaining that they didn't have the upper playfield, and that's Black Knight. It's like, I don't know. Now, I bet you it's going to go the opposite way, where people will just be like, I don't need the upper playfield. Yeah. Because it also messes with, because I believe, because I'm looking at the playfield now, so like the left orbit, so the ramp feeds and then the left orbit, I'm not sure where that left orbit now goes, the vertical up kicker, because I don't see an apparent exit for that. I don't know if that also goes to the upper play field. So you're going to be up there a lot. Well, so maybe that's the problem is that right now you're not up there for long at all and, you know, you get a multiball from up there, so. Yeah, maybe people are draining too quickly up there or something. Yeah, well, maybe it's just, because that's what we know really. The feedback is it's just not as fun as it could have been. Yeah. And, yeah, I don't know what they can do, really. I mean, they're not going to replace people's playfields that already have them. I can't imagine. So it's like, I don't know. We will know by Monday. That is what I'm hearing. And there will be a stream of it on that same day, on June 24th. So get to it. And Deadflip will be streaming that. Yeah, and I stand corrected. I guess it just must have been the way that Keith was handling it, but I'm sitting in the orbit, and it is a long rail that goes up to the flipper. But it must, I don't know, I guess in that stream, he would either just let it bounce or something, and it would just, I don't know. I'll tell you why I'm keen. I don't know if this is going to be an unpopular thing to say, but I'll say it anyway because nothing's ever stopped me from saying anything. Yeah, let's break the internet. Let's do this. So, Steve Ritchie. He's always been my favourite designer. Always. I sense a butt coming. How dare you talk about my butt like that. How can't you? Come on. So, Star Wars, still for me, was a letdown. Right? Mm-hmm. And it was kind of that moment for me that kind of went, huh, am I done with Steve Ritchie layouts? Because he's done everything that he can do. I talked about it. You know, Star Trek, I think, was absolute perfection as far as one of his layouts go. Game of Thrones, I love his layout. And then you get Star Wars, and you go, yep, okay, take the art and the rules aside. You look at the layout, and you go, yep, it's got all the elements there, but anything new? Well, I mean, I think that the horseshoe area is pretty... I think that's new. I've never seen a mech that operates the way that it does. Okay, but again, evolution over revolution, right? It's just a slight involvement. I kind of get that. So with Black Knight, I'm... It's almost like, here's your second chance. So I'm just keen to play it to see whether I get that, fuck, I love Steve Ritchie again. Yeah, I mean, I guess I would temper expectations just because by the way you're describing it, there's really not much room for a revolution at this point. I don't think that that should be a real goal, because I don't think that's overly hit-able at this point. So there are these subtle things, which, you know, it's like on Star Wars, I think that the game has a lot of great parts, and it's just these few little weird things that just mess it up, like the way the ball enters the playfield, and for whatever reason sometimes that loop goes down the middle those are my two main issues with that game but like it's with and I think that as far as Black Knight goes I think you're going to like it because it's if you like mean games it's super mean like it's super punishing yeah this is probably the meanest game when it comes to missing like not like Ghostbusters like unfair where it's just punishing you for no reason like this one is like if you miss because I don't remember there being too many games that all the shots were protected by posts with rubber on them which correct me if I'm wrong that doesn't tend to be the case and everything in the middle is rubber protected so if you miss those get ready because that ball flies back at you so quick you can't do anything about it So, like, if you miss, you get punished really bad. So then the whole game becomes, how controlled can I play this? Okay, well then, so, a bit of a digression, but I'll ask it anyway. So if you think about, you know, Steve Ritchie from the modern era, I'm just going to make that a thing, right? Trademark it. So, and I may miss some, I've only just done an IPDB search for Steve Ritchie. So thinking about the Stern games he's done, right? And then call out if I've missed one. So, Terminator 3, Elvis, World Poker Tour, Spider-Man, 24, ACDC, Star Trek, Game of Thrones, Star Wars. Do you think there's any I've missed from Stern? No, I think you've got them all. So, and people, write in. Let us know what you think. What do you think is Steve Ritchie's greatest game that he's produced for Stern? Is it Terminator 3? ACDC. It's definitely not Terminator 3. I mean, well, I mean, who knows? Hey, everyone has their own favorites, and they're obviously welcome to have them. And I mean, that would be an interesting list to just rank and, like, what you go from, like, bottom to top. Yeah. Do you know what? I might actually even put a poll up on Facebook and see what people think. I mean, for me, it's ACDC. Whether or not that's necessarily the layout or the rules, it's hard to tell where my Lyman love ends and the designer begins I was about to say where Lyman ends and you begin get a room back but you know I mean yeah I mean it's just as far as playfield wise I mean that's a tough one I mean I might lean Game of Thrones it's just something about that playfield I really like whereas there's a lot about Elvis I just don't enjoy. Maybe because if I played it more I'd like it more but I just do not like World Poker Tour at all. Okay, so that's really interesting because I find World Poker Tour interesting in that people say that it's a really good, it's a shooter's game or a tournament game, right? Because it's got rules that just go forever. but the layout is just so not a Steve Ritchie game it's just him trying something very different and in respects I think Elvis is also like that where it just isn't that typical flow back to the flipper game it kind of is if you ignore the upper playfield flipper but that's where he's sort of gone out there to try to do different things and then you go back to Spider-Man, which is just very Steve Ritchie. 24, I think, is probably a little bit different. I like 24. I mean, but 24 has a lot of... A little bit where... Like, my big issue with World Poker Tour is just... All the shots are so far away in the back of the playfield that it always feels like I'm playing... Like, the flippers are never strong enough to feel right when hitting the shots. It always feels like I have to flip too early because there just doesn't have enough oomph to get there. So, like, that, you know, that's my main issue with that game. Like, 24, I think it has a fun layout, but that also has a similar problem where everything is so far away. Yeah. So, but I think the rules are the problem on that game, whereas I think that the play field is pretty good. So, yeah, I mean, yeah, everyone seems to love Spider-Man. I mean, I like it. I definitely take Star Trek over Spider-Man every day, but as far as the gameplay, although I love the theme in Spider-Man more and the call-outs and stuff, but minus the vault, because I think the vault is garbage. I don't think it's that different to be called garbage, if you like. The gameplay is great. The play field improvements, I hate the theme. Like, everything that was great about Spider-Man is gone in the vault. Like, they took out Jameson, which was the highlight of the entire game. Sure. And then the modes that they chose to put in there are just, some of them are just outright laughable. Like, one of the modes, which I don't remember which mode, is called Tell MJ. And literally the entire mode is, you hit a shot, and you see Peter, and then you see Mary Jane. And every shot you hit, it's one saying, like, yes. And then, no, they're just talking to each other. And it's just like, yes, no. It's like, oh, my God, this is not a mode. And it's just in the voice, it's just, and the Green Goblin is not a Green Goblin. It's like messed up Hulk-looking thing. So it's just, everything I love about the call-outs and listening to Doc Ock and the original and the sounds, and everything is removed in the vault and I hate it. I've played both somewhat and I could not be more indifferent to either of them. Meaning, I do like the layout and I actually quite like the rule set as well. But when it comes to callouts and the .matrix video assets and all that kind of stuff, not even bothered. I couldn't even tell you a single callout from Spider-Man, the original or the vault, because I just don't think that they're all that good anyway. Yeah, whereas I think that's the big difference because I quote them. So I like, you know, the power of the sun in the palm of my hand. Is that extra from the game? That's the first Doc Ock multiple. That's the first time I've ever heard it. So... Yeah, so there's... I have an attachment to the... because I like the movies, and I think that Jenna Jameson in that game taunting you the entire game is one of the best in-game antagonists. And he's not in the second one, which to me is a massive downgrade for me. I guess that's probably it. I'll say in my defense, although I think I'm indefensible. You don't have to defend yourself. It's an opinion, Marty. It is an opinion. I just don't like Spider-Man, the character, the movie, the comic book, the cartoon, whatever it is. It could be Superman. I much prefer Superman as a character. So, therefore, well, I just do. But that's why I kind of, when I go, you know, Spider-Man machine, I go, oh, it's not really my favorite. But then when you bring out Deadpool, right, which is, you know. Oh, yeah. Way better game. But just for me, a way better character. Anyway, people are going to be freaking throwing crystals at me now. But anyway. I mean, yeah. I mean, Deadpool is a much more interesting character than Spider-Man. I mean, my issue is just Superman is a completely uninteresting character, whereas Spider-Man has his own flaws and his own stuff like that, whereas Superman's just a god that's just a god. And he's just – I don't like him as a character. Okay. Fair enough. So back – we're talking about Black Knight. So, yeah, I think that you will – my guess is you're going to like the pro better when eventually you play it. Because, I mean, you're in purgatory, because you're in the future, but yet you're in the past. Right. It is exactly that. Yeah, so it's like, I think you'll really like it. It's really punishing, it's really mean. I think you'll enjoy it. It has a lot of interesting rules and decisions and stuff like that. And I'm not sure of how the premium's going to go, but I'm looking forward to trying it. and the fact that they took a spinner out and put up a drop target, I don't know how much I like that. Well, so based on what you've said, the general rule of thumb for me is if a game is cruel and punishing, then I will hate it on site where I have to put money in and I will hate it in a tournament where it's going to beat everybody's ass. But as a home game, that would actually be okay because it doesn't matter about money or it's not do or die. If you fail, you lose. It's just push the button again and just wait until you get your one in ten great games. Yeah, but I don't think that this is quite that mean. I think at your skill level, you'll be able to handle the meanness that goes with this. It comes down to decision-making and catching yourself to make shots that you think you would, but you shouldn't based on... Shooting things on the fly probably isn't as good of a job on idea on this versus if you can take a controlled shot to stuff because you know you'll go to shoot for say the left ramp and on the fly and it's not where you where it was when you backhanded or whatever like that you hit the post and it's right down the middle yeah you know so it's just like you just got to get it's a it's a real mental thing where like oh well on the fly i'm going to go for the center target or where it's actually hitting it on the fly is better than doing it from a trap so it's like all these weird interactions where It trains you to only take... It has a cool strategy where it puts you in dangerous situations and then makes you think about how you can safely or at least get paid out enough to justify that dangerous action. It starts the game where to get into a mode, you have to hit either the flail, the center target, or the shield. All three of which are pretty nasty when you hit them. So it's like, well, you have to hit it anyway. So for me, it's not even a decision. You go super skill shot because at least I want to get paid for this dangerous action I'm about to take. And that same thing happens later in the game where the second time around for the mode, you have to hit one of those three things twice and then three times the second. So it becomes a game of how do I safely accomplish these dangerous things? So it's really interesting in that way. Okay. And I think you're really going to enjoy that, like, metagame of, you know, trying to problem-solve these dangerous situations. I at least find it really fascinating. Oh, yes. So I know you have been following the production and development of Cosmic Carnival quite closely Absolutely Absolutely I mean who hasn It's one of these interesting things. So the news item this week that apparently is finally in production. Great, congratulations. You know, insert crowd cheering noise. I get it. That's great. Yeah, it's one of these things where I don't know. I kind of am really, really interested in it. And I have a reason for thinking that, but I can't say it. But bottom line is, I can understand that a new company that's trying to do something new may actually deliver us a unique experience, is kind of what I'm saying without saying too much. And that's what I think. I mean, obviously it looks great. You know, the Dirty Donnie art all over it makes it look fantastic. I think the video assets and animation look great as well. The big sculptured toys or things that, you know, like that clown where the ball goes under, it just looks great. Oh, it's gorgeous. It's a very pretty game. Yeah. For sure. And I think what they've done with, like, the challenge modes and all that kind of stuff, I think this could actually be fun. We in Australia will never see it. Do you think you'll ever see it? I mean, my stance is that when I, I mean, that they did the deep dive and I couldn't even bring myself to read it because, I mean, like I wanted to, but then I wasn't going to set aside time to do it because it's like, cool, this thing's being made and who knows when the heck I'm going to see it. And I'm not going to remember any of this when eventually I do see it. So it's like, why waste so much energy on something that's so far away? Like, I'll enjoy it when it comes, and then I'll look into it. But it's so far away, I don't see the point at this juncture. Well, I guess the reason why I say we're never going to see it here in Australia, that's not me saying you're not going to sell any. I think this will go into homes. Oh, definitely. You know, you just won't be able to see it on site. So unless I know somebody that's got one, and that's kind of like that P3, the Multimorphic, where I just happen to know somebody that's got one. But if I didn't know Mick, I would never have seen it. Yeah, that's weird. I would have thought that that would be a good game to operate. Because every month you can change what it is, and people can still get enjoyment, and you cycle it through, and it becomes a thing. If people like a specific one, then they play it. But, yeah, I mean, it's just got to be the price. But, I mean, the price is the same price as a Jersey Jack. So it's like, but those still are making their way onto location, so it can't be that either. I don't know. I think that that model would lend pretty well for our location pinball. It just keeps one location, you have one machine, and you can keep that machine fresh monthly. That seems great on the surface. But clearly there must be something I'm missing. well be keen to know it has anybody or does anybody know of a multi-morphic on site and you know i'm trying to work out what are the challenges of a cosmic carnival being on site so people can actually um play it and we can see more footage because there was actually um there has been some i think streaming of it as well so some people have seen it i saw it at tpf and flipped it and it felt good um i don't know i'm just kind of keen i i kind of want a company like this to succeed and you know if we think about all the you know inverted quotes because you can't see me doing that with my fingers boutique manufacturers that are out there um there's there's just so much i don't know skepticism that comes towards these companies that they're up against it all all the way from the start um so i would just be kind of keen to have a company like this that really just came out of nowhere like we only really knew about this probably a year ago and bang all of a sudden we've got a machine that's being produced and purchased and so far i've not heard any ill feelings towards suncoast pinball at all yeah and i think that's because they're all they're so new and nobody has had an experience with them but i mean because i mean universally speaking everyone's rooting for all these companies like i don't think that anyone's like being like yeah we need to make sure that this company doesn't succeed you know it's just It's just now there's an atmosphere of – yeah, but even then that was because that became after bad will happened. Yeah. So now I think it's just more cautious optimism now because everyone's been burnt in various different degrees, so people are a little more cautious about how excited they get for things. so i mean it's and but i mean i think those days are gone because i don't think that i think as a pinball society we've decided that we're not going to pay for and fund companies anymore so you take that element out so then it's like well then there's no reason not to be excited about the stuff because it's not costing us anything it's just costing us time to wait for these things to exist and then when they do we can enjoy them yeah and that probably is the difference i think i think the startups that we're seeing is people aren't necessarily, you know, putting the boots in, I guess, but everyone is still looking with a sceptical eye that's like, yeah, I'll believe it when I see it. So that's why I guess I'm saying for a company like Suncoast to now have pictures that say the machines are in production, and I hate to say this, but, you know, Highway Pinball also showed pictures of that, and they weren't really producing things. But for these little players, you're right, we're rooting for them. So good on you guys. I hope that we get to see one in Australia. I hope someone in Australia has purchased them. You'll see it in about five years. Yeah, I know. It's a very long boat ride. So speaking of that, I did see recently, in fact, speaking of rooting... Of the deep variety, you're saying? Of the deep variety. so there was actually a post that i um was reading during the week that i completely forgot to show you so now you're going to be completely blindsided by this oh i'd like to believe that that wasn't on purpose but i think i know better so so this is actually from the uk pinball club and basically what happened is that um they actually reached out to deep root to say you know what's your position on distributing internationally. And their response was, so this person actually reached out to Debra, and their response was, thank you for reaching out. We do not intend to sell internationally at this time. If this changes, we will make an announcement. Well, I think that that's just probably a let's launch first, and then we'll start thinking about, you know, we'll try and see if we can do it here, and then If things all go well, then we'll start doing that. Like, learn to walk before you can run thing. Yeah. Would be what I think. Well, you know what? I love your sentiment there, Joe. Well done. However, when has Deep Root ever had that outlook of, you know what, we're going to start small and see how that works, and then we will go big? You know, since when? What assembly? Since they heard you talking to them directly last episode or the episode before. Yeah, possibly. See? They clearly have changed. Yep. Maybe. Yeah. I mean, I think at this point it's just like, since they've put themselves out there, it's like, I don't know why. But I guess that we can infer that this is not, like, they like to boast about things they feel they can do. so that I think just clearly they don't think that this is in their scope or shouldn't be at this point, so they're not going to pretend it is. That's actually a really good take on it, that unless they have the ability to back up what they're boasting, they're just like, no, we're not going to touch that one because we don't know. And that's probably what we've got to remember is that DeepRoot had a direct purchase model. They weren't using distributors. So when you then got... Yeah, that makes it harder. It makes it harder internationally because then you've got shipping, you've got taxes for each of the different countries, you've got import and duty tax, all that kind of stuff. And there's so many other countries out there besides America. I don't know whether you know that, Joe. Did you know there's actually other countries out there besides America? I don't know. Fake news. All I hear is we're number one, so I assume that for that to be the case, there needs to not be anything else. I know. I'm being a bit facetious here. And everybody, please, don't write in, I freaking love America. It's why I go there once or twice a year. It's my favourite destination in the world. But what I guess is... Oh, don't kiss their ass. I was kind of kissing yours, but whatever. Aw, thank you. That's right. See, now we've mentioned both of our asses in this episode. Everything goes full circle. Yeah. So, that's awesome. so really what I'm saying is that I think if they know that the majority of the market is the US which it is then they would really need to focus on how they're going to do a direct to consumer distribution model and geez somebody's got to work out their international model at some stage but I think it makes sense because it is going to be really complicated for them to do that So it's like get the launch done. And I think it also makes double sense is the fact that like, okay, we're going to launch. And then it's not going to be available to all of the world for X amount of time, of which point the rest of the world is going to be hopefully seeing all these awesome reviews. And they're going to be sitting there going, we need your shit. We need your shit. So that entire time, it's just like making excitement. And when's it going to come? When's it going to come? So then when it finally drops, it's like being teased for so long that then it's just going to be like, ah, we can finally have it. So it kind of works on both ends. It's making it so their launch is as simplified as possible and guarantees themselves the best chance at success while also kind of choking the market with anticipation that eventually, once we've made this huge splash, hopefully, and everyone loves it, that then the rest of you just get to sit there and watch and be envious. and then your time comes and then you can go nuts. So I think it works on all ends. I think that sounds great from your perspective. Again, from anybody that's sitting outside, where we have been... Look, I'm not going to say we've been champions of Deep Root, but we've been sort of... Well, let's face it, we take the piss because of their name, right? But take that aside. That just can't be helped. That's our humour. but take that aside we have just been wheeling them on come on guys get these machines out if it's as amazing as you say it is at the price point you say it is shut up and take my money but you're saying you can't shut up and take my money yeah but that's the emotional side where i think that ultimately you know people have to realize that if it's not in the best case or the best interest of the company at the time, they shouldn't do it. If it's going to hurt them long term to try and tackle that right from the start, then they shouldn't do it. I know it might suck, but if it means you're eventually going to get it versus it might fuck everything up and then now you're not going to get anything, that maybe all of a sudden they can't hit any of their targets because they're so swamped trying to figure out how to get games overseas and it's more expensive than they thought and now they're making promises that they can't keep. I mean, that's just a hornet's nest that they probably just don't want to punch yet. Well, again, I get what you're saying. Thank you. Point well made. However, if there are companies like Spooky that can work it out, because also what you've got to have is, you know, you've got to have different power supplies and different plugs and all that kind of stuff. and then you've got to have, if you've got a coin door, you've got to have the different currencies for the different countries. Other companies are able to do this. So I don't see it being that complicated. I mean, you're not wrong, but I don't know. They must have made the calculation that it doesn't make sense for them right now. We don't care to them is what I'm hearing. I mean, I can't speak for them. Maybe that's what it is, Martin. they just looked at you and said nah Robert Mueller's gone you know what after all that shit that head to head pinball in Australia have given us they are not shipping they're dead to us the whole country you represent all of Australia we are not shipping to you so guys send me in as much hate mail as you like we are responsible for them not shipping to us well mainly you but I mean I'm sure it's going to happen I mean, yeah, true. I mean, yeah, if all those other companies can do it, then why can't they? But also all those other companies have used distributors. So it's not Apple to Apple comparisons because I don't think there are any other pinball companies that don't use distributors, right? Yeah, I mean, even for Spooky. So we've actually got – I think it actually even is like Spooky Pinball Australia. But it used to be the guys that were behind a venue up here called Pizza and Pinball. That's also the Newcastle Pinball Association. And they are effectively, God, how would you describe them? They're kind of distributors. Middlemen. They're just forwarders. So you buy directly from Spooky. They get shipped to these guys in New Zealand and then they ship it locally and they make no money from it. And that's what Dave Peck, who we've had on the show, that's what he does in New Zealand. He also distributes for Spooky, but makes no money on it. It's just a landing point, and he then forwards it locally. So it can be done. Yeah, that sounds like a model that doesn't need to exist then. If they're not even making any money off it, from an outsider theoretically looking at a system such as that, They're the middleman, they get a little something-something, and then they provide the local convenience. But if they make no money out of it and it's just literally a wash, then why not just have it shipped directly to the person at that point? Well, the difference is shipping in bulk. So if you do an individual pinball machine, it's going to cost you $1,000 to ship it. Whereas if you actually get a container of them, you're absolutely reducing the cost per machine. That is true. Maybe they're trying to figure out a way to distribute overseas and not distribute locally. I mean, by the way you mentioned it, it does seem like you'd have to do it that way. Or at least you'd have to have some kind of a hub there where you had your own people do it, which is obviously probably more expensive than just having someone else do it. So that's probably, I imagine that's where they're going to end up. Possibly. Because what I know is that, I think we've talked about this a number of times, that shipping out of the US, I'm assuming to the rest of the world, but certainly in Australia, is terrible. So I bought these camera clamps for my mobile stream. I think I might have mentioned this. They were $15 each. Shipping was $18 each on top. Right? I saw somebody the other day wanting to buy a T-shirt from the US, and the T-shirt was $30. Shipping was an additional $70. Yep, that's, yeah, shipping can be pretty ridiculous. I went to go buy some inserts for some board games I have, and the shipping was more expensive than the inserts. At which point I said, don't need it. No, it's crazy. Anyway, but speaking of production, so smooth. Mmm, butter. Uh-huh. Are Jersey Jack in production with Wonga at the moment or not? That's the big question everybody wants to know. And the only question I have is, why does it matter? Well, it matters. It's going to happen. It's going to happen at some stage. But people are sort of saying, well, I've spoken to Jersey Jack, and they've said they're on the line right now, and someone else has spoken to them, and they said they're not on the line. What's going on? What is truth, Joe? You can't handle the truth. There is no truth. There's no truth left in this country. Have you? Come on. It's very fluid now. Yeah, I mean, everyone has their own. I don't know who's telling who what. I don't know if Jack is just telling multiple people different things. He's just getting everybody all excited over it and starting a storm. but I mean, clearly they'll make it whenever they can because it's really their only title right now. So it's like, they're going to do it as soon as they possibly can. I don't know. It's like watching water boil. It's just like, just look at something else. You'll look back and there it is. Oh, there it is. Okay. And now my kitchen's on fire, but sure. Yeah. Hey, fires. But again, so Monster Bash. How long has the Monster Bash remake been out over there? Oh, jeez. I don't know. I want to say six months, maybe, ish. Yeah. Ours arrived for the first time on July 7th. You know what I mean? You keep trying to get sympathy from me on that, and I just... I mean, you keep pounding it that you're in the future. I mean, you keep on saying you're in the future, so I guess this is your punishment for being in the future? You know, I'm back here in the present, and we have pinball machines, so maybe you should try living in this time frame. it does pay to live in the country that these things are being made in I guess so it's so opposite to the rest of the way the things are made everything normally is made overseas and we just have been even with HomePin which was you know again my inverted commas you can't see which was technically an Australian company even though they were out of China the rest of the world got their Thunderbirds before we did this just, I don't know. We're probably just so small that no one cares. Aren't you glad about that? Well, obviously, but yeah. Anyway, so it'll be good. I know there's a few people I know that are waiting on their Monster Bashers. So guys, July 7th is when the shipment arrives. So it's just around the corner. Thank you very much for your patience. I don't know why I'm thanking people as though I'm involved in this, but thank you. You're an ambassador for people. I am. I've played two copies of them so far so they're it's fun it's good yeah it's very pretty yeah it's very pretty yeah I played the we had some sample machines last year at Flipout which is where I have the I run the tournament and it's a big event and it is coming up again this year we're just in the early stages of planning and I got to play it at TPF and it's Monster Bash it's a pretty Monster Bash yeah it's really pretty I mean it's of I've always had my issues with Monster Bash it just seems clunkier than the other of the big three that everyone talks about but it's just overtly mean in a lot of ways but it's really pretty but what would you want Planetary and CGC to make next ooh let's see classic game hoops no um this is a great game i love hoops um let's see of that era huh i mean that's that's a good question i mean i'd really like maybe theater magic with better rules that'd be on my high on my list what we've seen so far is that they don't change the rules really. Yeah, that's why I caveated it that way, because I have no interest in a new version of theater. Well, I mean, it's better than the eight grand theater magics that exist now, but I guess I really like Circus Voltaire, and there's not that many of them. That'd be high on my list. I really do like that game. And I guess what I would preface my answer with is a game that I think hasn't aged well, meaning mechanically it hasn't aged well, so a new version of it would absolutely shine. And so if I'm looking at the Pinside Top 100, which we will get to again shortly, and I think about anything that's not a Stern game that's in, let's say, the Top 20, that hasn't been done, you've got Twilight Zone. So you've then got to ask, would they do a wide body? They'd be crazy to do so if you ask Gary. Right. That's exactly right. So the next one is Indiana Jones the Pinball Adventure. I could see that if they could mechanically get that thing working well although I don't know how the licensing is going to be on that thing well exactly you've then got Adam's Family, again licensing oh the next one though that would be good imagine that that worked but this is kind of what I'm saying Tales of the Arabian Nights, there's another one that goes for big dollars these days Theatre of Magic and really that's it when it comes to Bally Williams of that era oh my god Theatre of Magic is under Tales. Ugh. Yeah, Tales of the Arabian Nights is 15, Theatre of Magic is 17. But I'm going to say something that, again, that's why I prefaced it. There's a game of those that I listed that I don't like because I think the versions that I've played of them just really don't feel right, and I think that's just wear over time. Ooh, there could be a couple of them. It could be a couple of them, but it's actually Indiana Jones. I think if you got a new one where everything was really snappy, and one thing I've noticed about the remakes as well is it's not just that they're snappy, but also because they've got new rubbers, and I'll say new rubbers meaning rubbers that are made in today's environment, which has slightly different elasticity than games that were made back then. I think Indiana Jones, with its really deep ruleset and fun modes, that would be my pick. Out of all of those, that's what I would like. And I do not like playing it now, but I reckon I would if it was shiny new. They'd have to make some changes to that game. I think that if they could fix the issues with the game, I think that you're absolutely right that that game could be really, really good. The things that stand out to me about that game specifically are the path of adventure. Yes. Doesn't work, and it's not worth it. and then fixing the mode hole because it never works it never stays in there and then you have to nerf the multiball scoring I think if you hit those three parts then I think that yeah because I mean no one plays modes on that thing so it's just kind of because the scoring is so lopsided in multiball's favor and then no one plays the Path of Adventure half the time it's disabled so yeah I think if you could play with those three things I think that that game could be really, really good. But again, it's a wide body. The play field is packed with a lot of mechs, so it may not be the cheapest one to make. I don't know. I think the license would be the biggest problem. Yeah, I think so too. So I think of all of those. If you think about a machine that's relatively low when it comes to complex mechs and layout, I reckon probably Tales of the Arabian Nights would be the easier one to make because if you think about Theatre of Magic the biggest issue obviously with that is the trunk, right? It breaks. It is pounded on all the time and it breaks. What's Tales of the Arabian Nights? It got the spinning lightning wheel whatever it is It got that magnet that drops into the playfield in front of the genie but otherwise that pretty simple when you talk about I know you mentioned Voltaire Voltaire has got the what is he? Ringmaster that's a pretty complex mech to make I guess it's just a dude on a spring I guess he is I mean I guess those three probably in any order if we're being honest they're probably going to be the next ones just because of the fact they're unlicensed so I imagine those are easy to hit and you're not paying extra on top of if you did Next Gen or Indiana Jones plus they're not wide bodies I would imagine that probably if you ever did an indie or a Star Trek remake probably that would be its own separate if they got big enough to be able to handle two titles at once, then they could do maybe some white bodies and some regular at the same time. But, I mean, Tales, it's just the rules in that one. If they're not going to touch the rules, I just don't see that game, a brand new game of that costing six grand or whatever it's going to cost, holding up in today's landscape of how games should be balanced and how they score. It's just, like, the modes in that game are useless. completely useless unless you're going for the wizard mode so it's like it's if they could but i don't know they like you mentioned they haven't shown much incline to try and mess with these games to try and balance them out which i don't overly understand because it's like you know all these games even you go to you could go to the you go to the designer today and they they could look at the rules and they know what they didn't have a chance to fix at the time so why can't you go back to these designers and these programmers and be like so now you have a second shot at it Like, why can't you do that? And that's the rumor that they've got with Cactus Canyon, that apparently is the next one, is that they have gone back and finished the rules. So that would make sense, and also because... Yeah, and I think that's going to be a really good game. Because, I mean, I like that layout. It's fun. I do like that layout, too. It's just... Because I haven't heard... I haven't played a Beyond, but I've heard that it's kind of weirdly, as if you can tell it's not part of what the original package was. So maybe if they can make it so that it's, you know, if it's by the same dude who did it, then it should be a seamless process. Well, that's what the rumor is. The person that originally coded it had actually worked on a complete code, but never released it, still has it on his computer somewhere, and they're trying to have access to it. And yeah, because that, what is it? It's called Cactus Canyon Complete, I think is what it is, which was somebody independent tried to finish it. And I do actually know somebody that did get that code, put it on their machine and went, huh, I actually prefer the original code, but the original unfinished code back on. So that's just, you know, the taste of different people. But I don't know. I think Cactus Canyon is a fun game. It's a fun game. I don't love the rules. No, I mean, you could tell that there was, and there's a big flaw in the game with that multiball that can go on forever. like that's i mean and it's fun because i'm just scrolling through all these various you know the top 100 of just going through like oh that would be fun that would be fun i mean like one that really jumps out at me that that doesn't get the love but i mean probably is exactly the reason why it won't happen because it's i assume that most of these games that they're picking they're picking games that are go for more than they're gonna sell them for so obviously congo is not going to happen, but there's some pretty good games in that. Pinball Magic is a great game. Obviously, it's Comcast, so that probably won't happen. Capcom, yep. But I mean, there's tons of... I mean, who knows? Maybe they'll do Champion Pub if they can redo the rules on it. Please don't. I don't even like the layout of that one. It's been so long. Once I started getting good at pinball, I stopped playing that game. because it started really bothering me. Yeah, yeah. It's just... Everything is just so close to the flippers and it's like I know that there's this game at the back of the machine, but yeah, it's an interesting one. Who knows? Who knows? I've just put it out there. For a game that I dislike being Indiana Jones, I think I would really like that if they remade that. Yeah, I definitely agree. That would be really good. I bet you they've dabbled and looked into Twilight Zone because of all the games, the amount of money that game gets and how just messy that game is when it comes to upkeep and every single one of them plays completely different I bet you that that's on their list of ones to get if they could if they ever go into the wide body and also at the moment there was a time where you used to see Twilight Zones up, even for top dollars, but you used to see quite a few of them up for sale. Now you really don't see them that often. Certainly not in Australia. I would say they are, so maybe they all collectively got together to say let's do this so we can push up the price. Yeah, like TX sectors. Yeah, is that what happens? No? Well, that one had a kind of opposite where everyone hated the game, so the games just got destroyed, and now everyone covets it so then you never see them for sale because they're i mean like if you think of what that game is and the fact that it goes for like six seven grand now it's like because there's so few of them and it's so coveted that like the price for like price for the game you get like it's pretty silly it just sounds so good txtx i know then i i love it playing it every time i do what i own it no no but because it's just spinners yeah exactly alternate spinners yeah anyway one thing I noticed, Jersey Jack's Pirates is number 5 now yeah, there you go it's above Lord of the Rings, okay yeah so, that's not okay no, I know, that's interesting but what's also interesting if you have a look at this I know, you know, it's the Pinside Top 100 but The Walking Dead's at number 23 yeah, then this list is bullshit I mean yeah, I mean I'm seeing some... Yeah, this list is completely different than the last time I looked at it. Some of these games, I really question their location. I reckon the database has been broken in the background, and it's just all these things are all around the place. Yeah, maybe they reset it or something, but it's like, some of these things, like, Tales of the Arabian Nights is higher than Deadpool. Like, okay. I don't know. Sure. And Spider-Man. And Simpsons People Buddy. What? Yeah. It's very weird. Lord of the Rings is down to six now. Jesus. Yep. Look at that top. See, this is just like, this is member berries going on right now. It's like Medieval Madness, Attack from Mars, Monster Bash, Twilight Zone. Like, come on. There are better games that exist now than back then. At least there shouldn't be a clean sweep like that. Look, you and I look at these things really from a different lens, right? In that, if you think about Medieval Madness, and I just think about it in a tournament setting, and I go, you know what, I don't really enjoy playing it in a tournament. But people love the theme. People love the layout. People love the call-outs, the music, the art. I definitely think that's the best of the trilogy, for sure. Well, see, Attack of Mars, for me, is my favourite because I like the humour and I think that the game's got, I'll say, just a bit more flow than Medieval Madness. I know that there are similar layouts and people pretty much say that they're the same game, but just for some reason, Attack from Mars just feels better for me than Medieval, but, you know, I think they're both fantastic games. I bet you it's because of the moat. Could be. I think that that's... Because if you think about it, in Attack from Mars, the only time when you're shooting up the middle that it ever holds it is when you destroy the castle. I mean, there you go. I mean, you destroy the saucer. The saucer, yeah. Whereas medieval, it's only when you're about to destroy it, so that there is that pause where it goes into the moat and then it kicks out, and the same thing with the locks. So it's not as quick and responsive. So that's probably... But I also think people would look at those two machines and go, oh, you know, I love them both, but, oh, the castle in medieval madness is the best toy in pinball. That's why I would pick that over at Takamasa. So I get that. It's just a combination of all these things. so definitely whatever couple of last minor news points but Alice Cooper's got a code update I'll link it in the show notes, go to Spooky Pinball go and get your game there's a lot of updates on that but I also saw on Pinside that I mean look I've actually seen these devices on my Facebook feed where they've got these sort of things that they're like a rotating... It's almost like a fan, and that fan has LEDs on it, which can then, as you're rotating, it can actually create 3D images. I've actually seen people... Oh, this is the Hardy thing, right? The Hardy machine had this? I think they did, and so somebody is actually now... I think they're releasing this as a standalone topper you can put on your topper machine, and then you can just program whatever machine's logo you want on it in 3D, and it looks really cool. Oh, my Lord. These are fucking amazing. You know what I mean? Oh, wow. It's really cool. So I'll link that in the show notes. I'm just referring to it as the hologram topper, but I'm sure it's probably good something. Oh, wow. The Lord of the Rings one, even though it's sitting above a Star Wars, which is offensive. But that is awesome. It looks really good, doesn't it? Yeah, that's pretty cool. So if you had that as a standalone thing that would just sit on any one of your machines, you could either have it on all of your machines or you could have one that you move to different machines when you feel like it or you just put it on one of your machines and it cycles through the different toppers for every one of your machines or even it's just hung on the wall somewhere and it just cycles through like that DMD clock that people have done although I gotta say that I guess, I don't know, the one that's supposed to be maybe full throttle is by far the lamest like what is that? cool there's just flags sitting there And it's like, yep, that roughly sums up Full Throttle. That's pretty much the best you're going to get from Full Throttle. And probably that topper with its flag is probably going to be the best experience you get. Oh, don't be like that. Oh, the Batman one's amazing too. Like, these are awesome. It's really cool. So we're going to link that pin side topic. But if you couldn't be bothered clicking the link, just look for the ultimate pinball topper. Oh, my God, you've got to see this. A lot of dance baby group. so joe you've obviously now been on um head to head as co-host for a few weeks now and i could imagine your life has changed significantly um i'm curious to know whether the fame has gone to your head i'm assuming it has because obviously it's gone to my head um you're probably trying to think where the fuck is he going with this but i think you i'm i'm bearded breath you are so a couple of weeks ago we spoke about lady gaga pinball oh there it is damn it i didn't see this come i even damn it was my idea all right i'm sorry i know i've literally stolen your premise for this and you couldn't follow along so oh i'm sick leave me alone you are sick so we did we mentioned lady gaga and obviously we got into a bit of controversy because people you know thought we were saying it shouldn't be done. And then what happens the week after, Joe? Lady Gaga thinks it should be done. Correct. She's playing pinball with Tony Bennett. And she looked awesome. She was playing a pinball machine. Pinball machine was that. Which one was it? You don't remember? No. It's Aerosmith. Aerosmith. It is too. I do remember now that you said that. Interesting choice. Yep. So I think what's happened is that she heard our podcast and she's gone, what is this pinball that people are talking about? She's found one and gone, oh shit, we've got to get a photo opportunity. This will send the pinball community into oblivion. And she's like, well, get me on one of these. Yes. That is the power of head to head. We put it out there. And so I'm just saying, JK Rowling, for fuck's sake. Oh, don't you use my Lady Gaga to get you your Harry Potter. That's nuts. See your true colors. All right. All right. That's exactly what I'm doing. I feel so used, Martin. You should be. You're just cast aside now. I am using you to get to J.K. Rowling, to get to whoever is going to make a Harry Potter pinball machine. There it is. And a Matrix one. Matrix would be my second grail theme. Well, and I'm going to give you a little homework assignment, anyone who's listening, that as far as what a Lady Gaga machine could look like, go look at her Enigma show in Vegas and see the trailer and the visualization of that show. That would make an amazing machine. What's it called? Enigma. It's her Vegas... This is her residency, yeah. Yes, which we're going to attempt really hard to try and find a way to get there. to do that because of course she wasn't there when we were there for the freaking Josh had to have his tournament and like the one month she wasn't there noxious it looks great it's I mean her concerts are amazing it's so and this specifically has its own visual style to it and theme like boom like give that to zombie like yeti and oh it's crazy so it is It's actually like a Lady Gaga Cirque du Soleil. Yeah, pretty much. If there's something that you could tie it to, I think that makes the most sense. Okay, I've got to get back to Vegas. Far out, I loved Vegas. Only been there once. Well, when you go, we'll try and meet you there. Yeah, for sure. We'll go and see some Gaga together, and then we'll meet her backstage and say, Hey, you know Lady Gaga, you know Pinball, can you get in touch with JK Rowling and talk to him oh my god Jesus do they have therapy over there because I think Mike little too obsessed I just need a Harry Potter people machine and Jeff Patterson from Trip he totally agrees with me I'm just telling him oh I mean yeah I mean I'm not a massive Harry Potter person but I mean of course that would be amazing I've been to the Harry Potter Land and Universal which is just unreal Have you been there? Yes, I did. I went there last year. It was good to go to the new land too. I only went to the original one. What do you mean? They have the bank area now, right? Was that open? I can't remember. I just remember walking through, had some butterbeer, went on the main Harry Potter ride, which was just freaking incredible. Yes, that's the one. They have another section. The other one is in the other Universal Park. Right, okay. We're talking about the one in LA, yeah? Oh, no. Florida. Oh, no. I went to the one in LA. Sorry. Yeah. Florida one has another one. It's the... Yeah, which has just opened recently, hasn't it? I think it opened last year. Oh, I think they may have a new ride there. They just opened the... What's the giant's name? Yeah, the Hagrid's Magical Beast ones or something. Yeah, yeah. It's a coaster. that's like you riding a rat on his motorcycle. That's the one, or in a sidecar. That just opened. Yeah, that replaced Dueling Dragons. See, now that goes into my other hobby. Crossovers. Love it. So, we've got a pretty big milestone coming up, Joe. Do we? Look at you just getting in on the end of this. So, we've got an episode 100 coming up. I only come in when you just needed that uptick. Correct. That's exactly right. going to poke it back into the right direction. Correct, and you've done it very well. And every week I still get people coming up to me telling me that they think you're great on the show, so I'm not going to tell you because you'll just get a big head about it. But people have been asking, what are you going to do for episode 100? What are you going to do with this plan? I actually said to someone the other day, I said, you know what, I'll have Ryan C. back on and Ryan and Joe can just host the show because I think that'll be for shits and giggles for episode 100. You know, but for sure. so I don't know we haven't really planned anything just yet I like the concept we've discussed I think that would be great so this was actually Ryan's idea so I think it's only fitting never mind I hate it episode 100 we steal one of his ideas so we did a Stern Battle Royale a few weeks ago and it was a really good series of shows that obviously came out that I was right and Metallica is the best Stern machine ever made so close I think we're going to do the Bally Williams Battle Royale and so episode 99 we will go through the brackets and then we'll have everybody vote and then we'll read out the results on episode 100 I reckon that'll be a bit of fun and of course ours will be the defining opinion yeah but if anyone's got any suggestions on what they would want on episode 100 just write in to head2headpinball at gmail.com and we may or may not do something. I don't know. Yeah. That doesn't have to be the only thing we do. I mean, we can fill three hours. We've proven that. We can absolutely talk shit for a very long time. And speaking of talking shit, literally, Joe tips the top 100. And I managed to get that right for the first time. You did it. I did. Just the tip, Martin. Just the tip. Hilarious. Okay, so same rules apply, everybody. And we were talking about this before we recorded that Joe thought it was actually quite interesting that when we do the 100, that it's all actually done live for real and it's not edited in. Just to show you that this is legit. We actually did this. Yeah, I'm just super excited to actually hear Google live. I know. This is what happens. Okay, you ready? Here we go. Okay, Google, pick a number between 1 and 100. All right. 45. 45. The getaway. All right. So for those listening to Joe tips the top 100 for the first time, we pick a random number from the top 100 on Pinside and then Joe needs to tell us how to play this game. This is the getaway high speed to a very beloved game. game by many, many people. What do you do to play this game? Alright, well, I guess I mean, this is probably out of all the games, this is probably the most confusing game to talk about because there's so many different revisions because every revision of the game has a problem. It's like, which problem do you want to have? I guess there's maybe three or four revisions that are in circulation but each of them have their own problems with bugs that really mess up the game. which I'm not super knowledgeable about, but I'll just ignore all that. And I guess the first thing when you walk up to this game you need to figure out is if it has a ball save. Because if it has a ball save, then honestly the best thing you can do is... So one of the main goals in the game is to get your RPMs to, I believe, sixth gear is the final gear. so every time you hit an orbit or the inner loop you're getting RPM values which then you have to use the shifter to shift to the next gear and you fill up the next gear and you keep going until you get to gear 6 which gets you to the main wizard mode so on that light if you have a ball save what you can do is when you plunge the ball it goes up into the inner warp loop or whatever you want to call it and By doing that, it gives you an RPM or an RPM advance. If it has a ball save, you can plunge the ball, bring it to the upper flipper, and just let it drain. Then plunge again, let it drain, plunge again, let it drain. As long as the ball save is on, a normal ball save, no matter how cleanly it's draining, you potentially could get four plunges or four RPM advances worth of inner loop areas. So that's probably the first thing that you can know whether or not walking up to the machine. Sometimes if it's not a clean, you can do like a drop catch off of the feed around the loop to get it to drain better down the middle. So that's the first thing you can do is figure out if that's a ball save. besides that there's really I mean one of the main goals in the game is to do the multiball which is going to be getting the stoplights which is kind of the same as in high speed you can hit the stand-ups or you can just hit the various shots that spot it the scoop on the right, whatever you want to call that the traffic light lane there, that's also your video mode, that will spot you a light, I believe, and then so does the ramp will also spot you a light. You can hit those shots, or you tend to just get the other shots by missing shots to both of those areas, and that'll get you your stoplights. And after you get all the three green lights, you'll get the lock via the left orbit, or the inner loop will also bring because there's a drop-down ramp in the back that'll lock the ball for you. so you do that three times you get the multiball and multiball pretty much you start off you have to hit the ramp and you get a jackpot and then you have to put it back into the ramp into the supercharger which is you know one of the coolest toys in pinball and two shots the supercharger will light your super which is then the um the left orbit the left orbit or the inner loop are they actually where the jackpot is not the ramp um so it'll relight that for the super which is where the big points are in that multiball, and then you just go back into it. You have to get loops around the supercharger, which then lights your super again. And that's more or less the cycle of what happens in multiball. The other things you can do that's good to know is the side targets. They'll light your kickback if you hit the blinking one, which I think is very similar to how it works on high speed. That'll light your kickback on the left, which of course is super important, because it has the Steve Ritchie rail of doom that will make sure that If it goes over there, you die. Let's see. What else is there? Whenever there's the supercharger light on the ramp, it's the red light. Whenever that's lit, you should hit it. That will give you 5 million or I think upwards of maybe I think maxes out at 20 maybe, which it increases based on how many times you hit those side targets, those yellow side targets. If you hit those, complete those a decent amount, it increases how much your – it relights and increases how much your supercharger is worth. which is always worth getting. So whenever you see that light lit, always get it. It's a free 5 million. And that's really the main things in the game. You want to be hitting orbits. That'll be getting your RPMs, advancing your RPMs. You want to hit them via the inlanes, just like in the regular high speed. You get extra points based on how many you've hit, which are those circular inserts on the bottom. And then I guess the other big thing to talk about, I guess, is the video mode, which you get, I want to say third gear gives you video mode. And pretty much what you want to do in that video mode is mess with the shifter. Shift, you want to get up to fifth gear before you can which you can get up to fifth gear before the video mode even starts So when it doing through the animations just do that but we get in fifth gear and just hug a line Whether you do the right line or the left line I do with the left for whatever reason Just stay on the line and then just go back and forth to avoid the cars and boom! Easy 20 million or 25 million. And that really is the game. There's some deeper weird stuff but again, that matters on revisions and stuff like that. I think that if you, on your second lock, if you like, after you lock your second lock, if you see three cars you can hit the shifter or something and you get like a frenzy or something along those lines i'm not overly sure on what is involved with that but so but so when you're when you you're in a tournament and you go right my goal here is it to get into the standard multiball or are you trying for redline mania um i am going for multiball mainly i mean you can do both at the same time, because if you're on the right flipper, you can hit the left orbit, which gets you an RPM, which feeds the upper flipper, which then, if you hit the inner loop, will spot you, which I believe spots you light letters. Actually, maybe the inner loop might not do that. So, yeah, I guess that pretty much if you're going for multiball, you want to be focusing on the ramp or the stoplight scoop area. Those will be spotting you letters. I mean, lights. And it also feeds the upper flipper, which then can get you loops, which can be worth a lot, and then also is where your lock is. So that's a nice little pattern you can get into of hitting that hole, and then if that happens to light your lock, boom, you can hit the lock right there. And that also, if you get various mystery rewards, which can be varying in how much they're worth, but they're all worth getting. so or you could just loop a lot which can be worth a lot of points um if you're just free weighing a lot but as that happens you're it's probably not going to be going around cleanly so you're going to end up in the bumpers and the bumpers will end up getting you some lights but you know if it's you tend to be imagining you tend to you get to the multiball then after that you concentrate on rpms yeah okay um and and so i think one of the first things that i do when when i go up and again the tournament, if you get your 30 seconds of practice play, you know, the most thing that people do was obviously they're checking the sensitivity of the tilt. But I think the main thing I'm checking for in this game is, well, there's really three things. One is where on the flipper the left orbit is, because that is a shot that you will use a lot. And it's really interesting, because it looks like it's a, well, it actually is a fairly wide open shot. But unless you know exactly where it is on the on the flipper you can brick that and you know it's a Steve Ritchie so brick equals death the other one is where on the flipper and how um collectible the scoop is which is um on the upper right sometimes the ball can rattle around there so you've got to know whether um you're going to absolutely pound it in there or whether you're going to try and just take a little bit of pressure off the flippers but really the main one is how loopable that upper inner loop is because if you can just loop that around it'll get your RPMs up and it'll increase the score one of the main things that I see a lot of people even to this day, people that aren't necessarily familiar, because we grew up with this machine some people are actually seeing Getaway for the first time, the one thing that people forget the most is to shift gears once they get RPMs up and there's a visual way and there's an auditory way you can hear. You will actually see, I think it's an orange insert in the middle that says shift. If that's flashing, just grab the gear stick, which is how you plunge the ball, and push it down. That will change your gear to the next one. The other one is you will actually hear Steve Ritchie go, shift gears, in that exact voice. But people forget that. Why you should be using headphones. Correct. And so, yeah, it's really, if you're not hearing or seeing those things, you can miss it and you've really got to do that because that's what gets you into second third, fourth and fifth gear and fifth gear is how you get into Redline Mania. Yep and they all have their own awards that you get when you reach them Yep, so it's yeah, as I said so many times I've seen people that don't do it and it's like okay, I can see this person's never played this game before, so remember to shift your gears when it says it on the playfield and when you hear them say shift gears. Yep and if and making the decision of whether or not that upper loop is worth it or not, because similarly to Iron Maiden, that if it's not repeatable, then it's very dangerous. So heed with caution. Good warning. Well done. Yeah, I mean, that's not too much left in this game. Do you like the game or not? It's grown on me. Originally, I didn't really like it. I liked High Speed better. but it's grown on me the more I've gotten to play it most of the ones I play it shoots weird like a lot of the shots are in places that I don't necessarily expect them to be especially the left orbit I always tend to have a lot of issues with that maybe because it's so far in for an orbit, it's in a weird place but I always tend to have issues with that and if you miss early, you're dead because you're going to go right off of that left ramp post and that's going straight down the middle and that's again what I was saying about that left orbit it looks like it's a standard orbit a standard Ritchie orbit but it's just, you've got to adjust where the shot is on your flipper to know where it is for me, when this game came out originally I played it to death in the arcade, it was so good that freaking you know what I'm talking about, Supercharger is just one of the best mechs in pinball history I don't think it's aged well I think rules wise it hasn't aged well and I think layout it hasn't aged well yeah I mean it does all it does is just slowly give you stuff while it does this cool thing which you know I mean it's certainly not as impressive as like the Star Wars one for sure no that's right I agree so but this one will also not drain the ball on you so there has that for it unlike the Star Wars one that's right there's pluses and minuses with that so anyway so let's talk about what happened in our week in pinball what did you get up to this week Joe and what's about to happen this coming week um let's see this week pretty much was just league for NEPL which we're in our 7th week now so we have one more week left of the season and then we go to finals I am the Massachusetts state rep for NEPL which of course people who don't know NEPL is the biggest league in the world. Is it, though? It is. Is it really? Yeah, we have, like... This is the New Robert Englunds, isn't it? New Robert Englunds Pinball League? New Robert Englunds Pinball League, correct. Okay. What's New Robert Englunds? I know Robert Englunds. Currently, it is... Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Massachusetts. We don't count Rhode Island and Connecticut. Okay. So that's sort of northeast. Yeah, I mean, it's those six states are what's considered New Robert Englunds. So why have those collectively got together? Is that because they are close to each other? I mean, I've been around since the beginning of the league. I've played in every single season, and this is our 21st season right now, I think. But, I mean, when it first started, it was just kind of like, it was just a league. And then we were like, oh, well, what if we, everyone, we have different locations within states. And then, you know, they all go when you can visit each, you know, every, like every week we have like, I mean, at this point, it's like 20 locations that happen all over New Robert Englunds on any given day. And then we all go towards central standings, and then you take A division, B division, C division, and then you have a finals at the end that's at a central location that everyone comes together and we get to see everybody. And it's super fun, and it's great because Massachusetts is the mecca of New Robert Englunds. We by far have the most players in the most locations, but it's super cool to be able to, every season, just getting to reconnect and see everybody at finals. That's my favorite part of League is the social part of it, where it's just like, I know at the end of the season, I get to see tons of people that I don't see that often. And to me, it's super fun. So I'm just on their website now, which is, you know, I think it's nepl.org. And I can see your scores. So it actually shows me what your highest score is, what your lowest score is, and what your average score is on individual machines. Yeah, which technically the lifetime stats are in there, which you can look up for all the seasons. although since we've gotten the downside of being as huge as we are, all of our data is a lot, and it kind of tends to crash the site if you look at the lifetime stats. But you can look at the stats from this season very easily, yeah. Okay. World Cup sucker, 1.6 billion is your average score, I think. But your highest on that is, yeah, your highest is 3.2 billion. that's alright I think I remember where that was I think that was at Pinwiz that was a while ago PWA yep look at that see if I can remember anything some of them I have some pretty ridiculous scores that I've put up during league and you've even got your win loss ratio wow is it wow worthy? no not really But you pretty much There's only one person That you Have lost More than one I wonder who that could be Mike Saraceno Saraceno Really Yeah He's beaten you six times And you've only won Huh Yeah so There's your nemesis right there So Wow so I have a better record Against Bowen than I Is that what you're trying to say No You've actually got equal Four wins and three losses Oh look at that See I'll take that So you should Yeah, I mean, like, this week specifically, I mean, I put up the best score I put up on a Batman ever that I was during League. I didn't get no extra balls, just three balls. It was 3.4 billion, I think, which is 3.2. 724.70. Yeah, just off the top of my head. I finally get to play, which is the first time I've ever been able to do it, is I finally get to play one of the season multi-balls. I played the Holy Robin whatever multiball. That was super cool. And then I also get to play it, which beats me. I think that if there's a game that exists that I have a losing record against, 100% is Star Trek Valley, which I hate so much. It just drives me crazy every time I play it. It's just, I was saying, that was at the Southern Hemisphere Pimple Championships, and the Star Trek ballet is just a machine you just don't see that often. And I just, I don't get that machine. I want to like it because I really like ballets of that era. This one is just not great. Yeah, I mean, my biggest thing is the fact that, like, the two main objectives in the game very much go opposite of skillful play. Like, one of the most important things is the drop targets. which if you hit them directly, do not go down. So it's like, cool. So you have to miss them and get the bumpers to do it. The valley brick, yeah. Yeah, which obviously is not. Which is made worse because they're at such an angle that they just kind of just deflects off of it. And like, okay, cool. So then also then you have the massively important bonus collect on the right, which is obviously that's what the main purpose of the game is to just collect your bonus as much as possible. But if you hit it cleanly, it rejects and goes down the middle. And it's like, cool, which is exactly what happened to my second ball. I got up, built up some nice bonus I'm like here we go, now I do the thing drilled it clean, flew back down the middle I'm like okay cool, fun, love this game it's great it's just an odd game it should be better than what it is yeah it's just so clunky and noiseless I remember specifically I played it I was probably in league or something like that and we were over at Chuck's house he has it out on location now but he had it at his house and I remember that it just crushed me, and then I think I played a couple games with someone else afterwards, and I lost money on it. And then I was just like, you know what, I need to just play this game, and I think I played like six games with Leslie, and I lost every single one. I could not, I'm like, I hate this game so much. Like, it just, there's something, there's bad juju on that game, and it just has something against me. So if people do want to become part of the New Robert Englunds Pinball League, what are they going to do? Well, you can check out the website, or you can, we have a Facebook group New Robert Englunds Pinball I mean yeah New Robert Englunds Pinball League and that's another way to do it or most of the times if you just take a look at where people when the locations are going and then if you just show up and we also because if you're a new player you don't have to pay the first year you get to pay for free get to play for free if you don't get to win anything in the finals but if you make finals then you have the opportunity to pay and then that would make you eligible for it but it will also have if you're a paying due member every three seasons we give away we raffle off a new pinball machine so playing in multiple seasons gets you more entries into that which gets you a chance to win a new new inbox turn which is also super cool. That's really cool. Yeah. So yeah. So we've had close to 300 players. We have around 300 players that come in and out from season to season. We have three seasons a year. We're currently in our summer season, and then after this one's over, which I think the finals are in mid-July, then we'll have a winter season. Well, here's some fast facts for you. You ready? This is just obviously from your website. You've got four leagues, 27 seasons, 845 players, 1,113 machines, 203 meets, 6,233 groups, 87,895 scores since it started. Dear Lord. Where did you find those? I've got my sources. You know. She is. I've got fingers in every pie. Joe? Oh, it's at the top. I've never looked at it. It's really not. That is adorable. Really not hidden. No. Nope. There you go. Now, you've also got a... You've actually got a... I say big, my inverted commas again. You've got a big comm you're about to go to. Oh, yes. A nice... Tomorrow, actually, we have a 12-hour tournament. I know, right? It's only half as good as the real one. but it's at, which is one of our locations for League and also one of the locations for Pinmasters, which is where Pinmasters of New Hampshire is going to be happening. And it's at the Ice Ice Arcade, which is great. It's this beautiful collection of, and he has a vanilla ice-themed bathroom, which is why it's called the Ice Ice. Oh, yes, yes, yes, I remember that. I'm sure you've seen pictures. so we're having it's a dusk till dawn tournament so the tournament will start at like 7 o'clock tomorrow and we'll go till 7 o'clock in the morning the next day and it's more or less the same as the 24 hour but it's 12 hours the only difference is you're not playing during the day you're just trying you're just dreading that you're now going to have to stay up and only play 12 hours of pinball instead of the full 24 when you go during the day you're like man I could be playing pinball right now so it's just doing the hard part good luck I hope you win because it's probably going to be worth a lot of whoppers and that will take your ranking up even further maybe I'm not sure how many players are going to be playing so it might not be big enough to make a difference but I obviously am going to try and it's going to be fun regardless because he has a great collection he has a Black Knight so that's where I played the most of Black Knight because he has one yeah okay yeah it's a really awesome place to play awesome look i i didn't do much pinballing this week i streamed again which was fun i um i did last sunday night uh tried my um my mobile streaming rig out for the first time and it was a disaster is what i'll tell you so So I believe you. Yeah, it was just fiddly. The frame itself came with no instructions. So if you think, imagine like probably the most complicated device or bit of furniture that you would buy from Ikea turned up in a flat pack with no instructions. It was like that. In fact, that was exactly what happened. And so Eric, who I stream from his place, we spent, I think, two and a half hours just trying to get this frame together. and it was one of those things where we go, right, we've got all this together, now where does this go? Oh shit, we've got to disassemble everything just to put this part in for something that is two steps ahead. But you don't know that until you actually get to that step that you've got to go back to fix it to put it back in. Anyway, it was lots of fun. And then my HDMI transmitters didn't work. It was just an absolute nightmare. But it's coming, and that's going to be part of my big rig set up for Flip Out, the Melbourne Super Bowl tournament that we have there. So that's coming up. Awesome. And we're planning for that, hopefully bigger. I think last year we had maybe 90 people participate. Whoa. Yeah. That's pretty big. It's getting big. So I hope to get to 100 or above 100. I think we had, you know, 80, maybe 80 people in the Flip Frenzy, which was bloody crazy and chaotic as well. So anyway. I'm still going to play in one of those. I still would like to try that format. They really are fun. You will enjoy it. So, anyway. So, there's that. That's awesome. And we are in week three of our PIN Stadium competition. Da-da-da-da. So, we're going to make it easy this week. We actually have had a lot of entries again this week, but we're going to make it easier this week. Yeah, we've come to the realization our audience is very lazy. if we give you something you've got to go and research, you will do it, but not as much. So what we'll do, we'll give you the answer. You know what? The answer is Orion's Belt, okay? The question is... Maybe we should make them come up with a question. We give them an answer, and then they have to come up with a clever question. Isn't that like Jeopardy? So is that what it is? Reverse Jeopardy. Yeah, kind of. So all you need to do, all you need to do is email us the answer, Orion's Belt. But the question is, what is the pin stadium set that has the four individual flashes that you can set up and you can actually have them change color? And I'll actually link the stream I did of Star Trek because my Star Trek has actually got fusions. And the fusions are a combined form factor of the original pin stadiums and the Orion's Belt. And the light show this thing puts on is just phenomenal. So if they answer fusion, it's still right. You could answer fusion or you could answer Orion's belt because they are both providing you the ability to hook up the connectors to four different flashes and then change the different color. So, for example, on my Star Trek, if you hit the left spinner, I've got that hooked up to a green flash, so the whole machine just flashes green. It looks phenomenal. It's so good. Excellent. so it's like Game of Thrones but Star Trek correct but nothing like that analogy you've just given Spinner is coming it is so what you've got to do, you've got to email head2headpinball at gmail.com just put in the answer Orion's Belt and there you go and if you even wanted to explain to us what the real Orion's Belt is you can add that as well it's a wrestler's belt that's some dude named Orion No, I have no idea. I'm just making that up completely. Completely. I got you, though. Yeah. Could have been. You wouldn't have known. I could have got you just Googling all over me. Awesome. So that's it for this week. And obviously, you've got to join the Patreon, too. Oh, yes. And so we actually have had some people. You've got to get those extra entries. Correct. And so people have actually signed up. So thank you very much to our new Patreon subscribers. Anything from, it's like $3 a month above, will get double entries into the competition. and we will read out the winner of the pin stadium set on our 100th episode oh yeah get ready for that and i mean come on me and everybody come on listening to us four times a month i mean that's gotta be worth five dollars to you right i mean easily come on it's not cheap getting getting him to call me from australia correct this costs me a lot of money from the future correct i know technology barely exists the r and d i had to put into the device to get me to go back in time was a million dollars. Is he lifting tricks? So there you go. Yeah, Pitt Stadium has been an amazing sponsor for Pittmasters of New Robert Englunds. So, Scott is awesome. He's just a great guy. So, you know, let's go through the fourth wall one more time. So last week, when we mentioned the question which was, you know, how many colours can you do? And it was greater than 16 million. I know, it is spoilers. We actually looked all over his website and it wasn't there so we actually recorded a second question just in case so he put my answer up he put your answer up on his website within minutes of me sending him an email that's how freaking cool he is yeah he's a man and it also made it made it sound like i knew what i was talking about see that i was in the future there for a second correct yeah it felt good i see why you feel so powerful that's right it is it is the the power of the edit and and obviously as you know, you heard the unedited interview with Gary Stern and the edited. They're very different, aren't they? A tad, yeah. Just a bit. What was the end number for how long the edited... Do you know how long it was? For me to edit? Or how long the final edit lengthwise of the interview? No, I don't know. And the thing is, I would have only edited out a total of maybe one minute, two minute, and it wasn't like I was editing out big sections. I was just sort of cleaning up where there was pauses or over-talking or me trying to get a question in and it kept failing, so I would just edit that out. I did notice one spot where I remembered you asking a question and it wasn't there. And I was like, huh. Like, yeah, he censored him. He told himself to shut up there. That was good. Yep, that's what you're going to do. Big of you. That's what you're going to do. so there you go so thanks everybody for listening one more time this has been episode 97 with Martin and Joe this is awesome this is always a highlight of my week yep recording these things same for me I actually really love doing it on a Saturday morning because it's like ah now I've got the rest of the weekend to just go and enjoy life mhm and it's and mine is I get to stay up late on Friday nights yeah you do hang out in Australia for a little bit I know so I think I'm actually now going to go and fix my Lord of the Rings. So, next week's episode will be a discussion about how I've just completely butchered my Lord of the Rings and it doesn't work anymore. You bastard. I know. That's what I'm going to do. I'm just terrible with these things. So, wish me luck, everybody. We'll see how we go next week. Messed up my precious. Yes. All right. See you, everybody. Later. _(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_ --- *Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 3c211be7-c709-4781-a3ff-411090e3a462*