# The Aussie Pinball Podcast Ep 9: Chris Slevin

**Source:** The Pinball Network  
**Type:** video  
**Published:** 2022-09-01  
**Duration:** 60m 5s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcKC7_TjuiQ

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## Analysis

Chris Slevin, founder of Pizza and Pinball venue and Pinfest (Australia's largest pinball show) and Australian distributor for Spooky Pinball, discusses his journey from casual collector to major pinball community organizer. He details Newcastle's pinball heritage through Hankin Pinball, his evolution from buying 150+ machines over 20 years to running a successful six-year pizza arcade hybrid venue with monthly IFPA tournaments, and Pinfest's growth from 60 machines in 2012 to 90 machines with 65+ contributors across Australia. The episode establishes Newcastle as a pinball hub and highlights the importance of community tech support in sustaining the hobby.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Hankin was the only pinball manufacturer in Australia, operating in Newcastle — _Chris states 'Newcastle always been the centre of pinball in Australia thanks to the Henkin Pinball Company who manufactured pinballs right in the centre of town for a few years'_
- [HIGH] David Hankin (implied founder) had an arcade called Orbit One that was named after the first Hankin pinball machine — _Chris explains: 'their first pinball machine was called Orbit I think that was a homage to the already opened arcade' then clarifies the arcade came first_
- [MEDIUM] Hankin had a licensed Star Wars pinball machine in the late 1970s — _Chris states 'apparently, from what I've been told, it was licensed' regarding Hankin's Star Wars title, but notes uncertainty about how the license was obtained_
- [HIGH] Chris purchased approximately 150 pinball machines over his collecting career — _Chris directly states 'I have lost track, but I reckon I'd be on 150'_
- [HIGH] Pizza and Pinball operated for six years (late 2011 to ~2017) — _Chris states the venue opened 'in late 2011' with 'a three-year lease, got another three-year lease' and 'after six years... we got tired'_
- [HIGH] Pinfest 2024 will be its 11th year (originating 2012-2014) — _Chris states 'This year will be our 11th year' in what appears to be 2024 recording context_
- [HIGH] Ken Shipley is considered the best pinball technician in Australia — _Chris states 'I know the best technician in Australia called Ken' and 'without Ken, I wouldn't still be in pinball because he can solve everything'_
- [HIGH] Hankin games (Shark, Howzat) had significant board reliability issues but exceptional playfield condition — _Chris notes Hankin games 'are all in, like the play fields are all beautiful. You rarely see a hankin with a worn-out play field' but 'They're not the easiest games to keep running... Just board issues'_

### Notable Quotes

> "Without Ken, I wouldn't still be in pinball because he can solve everything. He's a genius and a nice player."
> — **Chris Slevin**, approx. 25:40
> _Emphasizes critical importance of skilled technician support to hobby sustainability_

> "The best thing about Pizza and Pinball was the guys our age bringing their kids to play and see pinball machines... a lot of children had their first experience with pinball"
> — **Chris Slevin**, approx. 33:10
> _Highlights venue's role in introducing new generations to pinball, beyond nostalgic player base_

> "Newcastle always been the centre of pinball in Australia thanks to the Henkin Pinball Company who manufactured pinballs right in the centre of town"
> — **Chris Slevin**, approx. 2:30
> _Establishes historical legitimacy of Newcastle as pinball hub due to local manufacturing heritage_

> "It just became too much... seven days a week... trying to keep the games running... we were constantly turning over pinballs so every month at least four of the games were changing over"
> — **Chris Slevin**, approx. 34:50
> _Illustrates operational burden of venue-based collection management and retail rotation model_

> "Back in that era where you'd buy a game and you'd keep it for six months, 12 months, sell it for what you bought it for and buy the next one... it was just so easy"
> — **Chris Slevin**, approx. 19:30
> _Describes early 2000s secondary market conditions that enabled rapid collection growth and trading_

> "By about 11 o'clock [on opening day] I was saying 'I've just blown all this money'... luckily people came, people had a great time"
> — **Chris Slevin**, approx. 38:50
> _Captures anxiety and gamble of inaugural Pinfest event before its success became apparent_

> "The venue were over the moon with the response... Before we'd even finished, the owners come up and said, 'same time next year, guys?'"
> — **Chris Slevin**, approx. 39:30
> _Demonstrates immediate venue owner buy-in to Pinfest concept based on first event success_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Chris Slevin | person | Founder of Pizza and Pinball venue (2011-2017), co-founder of Pinfest, Australian distributor for Spooky Pinball, Newcastle-based collector and pinball community organizer |
| Dominic Slevin | person | Chris's brother, co-founder of Pizza and Pinball, involved in Pinfest organization and pinball collection/transport |
| Ken Shipley | person | Highly respected Australian pinball technician specializing in restoration and board repair, credited as essential to hobby sustainability |
| David Hankin | person | Founder/operator of Hankin Pinball manufacturing company in Newcastle, Australia; operated Orbit One arcade; now reclusive but community icon for Australian pinball history |
| Tony | person | Brisbane-based pinball wholesaler/importer with warehouse; major supplier to collectors; scheduled as future Aussie Pinball Podcast guest; now retired |
| Hankin Pinball | company | Australian pinball manufacturer operating in Newcastle (late 1970s-early 1980s); produced Orbit, Orbit One, Empire Strikes Back, Shark, Howzat, and licensed Star Wars; only Australian pinball manufacturer of its era |
| Pizza and Pinball | company | Hybrid pizza restaurant and pinball arcade venue operated by Chris and Dominic Slevin in Newcastle, 2011-2017; hosted monthly IFPA-rated tournaments; approximately 19 games rotating through inventory |
| Pinfest | event | Australia's largest pinball show founded 2012/2013, held annually (primarily September, briefly November 2021-2022); grew from 60 machines/15 contributors to 90 machines/65 contributors; held at Club Macquarie, Argenton, Newcastle since relocation; 11th edition in 2024 |
| Spooky Pinball | company | Boutique pinball manufacturer; Chris Slevin serves as Australian distributor and importer |
| Club Macquarie | company | Venue in Argenton, Newcastle (10 minutes from Slevin's house) hosting Pinfest since relocation; primarily wedding venue; cements Pinfest for September annually |
| Caves Beach Side Hotel | company | Original Pinfest venue near Swansea, south of Newcastle; hosted first Pinfest event(s) before venue change |
| Newcastle | event | City in Australia positioned as pinball hub due to Hankin Pinball manufacturing legacy and current community activity; home to Pizza and Pinball, Pinfest, and multiple competitive players |
| Beaky (Andrew) | person | Early pinball technician on Gold Coast who taught Slevin basic machine maintenance; later relocated to Melbourne |
| Marco | person | Pinfest committee member managing contributor list and Facebook page; associated with Marco Specialties |
| Brett | person | Pinfest committee member assisting Marco with Facebook page management |
| Dave Hammo | person | Pinfest committee member and designer since inception; creates event shirt designs |
| Jeff | person | Pinfest committee elder statesman and guiding figure to Chris Slevin; described as invaluable for keeping ideas grounded |
| Lyndon | person | Operator of Pinball Museum; contributed machine to Pinfest for first time last year; cross-country contributor |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Hankin Pinball manufacturing legacy and Australian pinball history, Secondary market trading dynamics in early 2000s pinball collecting, Pizza and Pinball venue operation and business model (2011-2017), Pinfest event growth, organization, and community contribution model, Importance of skilled technician support to hobby sustainability
- **Secondary:** Transporting and logistics for pinball machines, IFPA tournament integration at commercial venues, Hankin game reliability and maintenance challenges (Shark, Howzat)

### Sentiment

**Positive** (0.85) — Chris expresses genuine enthusiasm for pinball community, gratitude toward mentors and technicians, and satisfaction with Pinfest's growth. Some reflective nostalgia about early 2000s secondary market ease and Pizza and Pinball's closure, but framed constructively. Generally warm tone toward Newcastle's pinball heritage and current community contributions.

### Signals

- **[business_signal]** Pizza and Pinball venue closed after six years due to operational burnout despite strong community support; operational model (7 days/week, monthly game rotation, tournaments, parties) was unsustainable (confidence: high) — Chris states: 'after six years of running a small business like that, we got tired... it was seven days a week... it was just a lot of time keeping the games running... it just became too much'
- **[community_signal]** Pizza and Pinball successfully introduced new generation of children to pinball through family venue model, not just nostalgia-driven adult play (confidence: high) — Chris highlights: 'the best thing about Pizza and Pinball was the guys our age bringing their kids to play and see pinball machines. And so a lot of children had their first experience with pinball'
- **[event_signal]** Pinfest operates as distributed contributor model across Australian regions: machines from Victoria, Queensland, Tasmania, Melbourne, Brisbane, Mackay; committee of 6-8 consistent volunteers with specialized roles (confidence: high) — Chris: 'We've got contributors coming from Victoria, Queensland. The Tassie Mafia have made us one of their holiday spots... machines come from Brisbane, Mackay, Melbourne... probably still got 10 of those people who are still contributing... probably be about six of us' on committee
- **[event_signal]** Pinfest established 2012 as Australia's largest pinball show; grown from 60 machines (15 contributors) to 90 machines (65 contributors) across 11+ years; now standardized at Club Macquarie, Argenton, Newcastle in September annually (confidence: high) — Chris provides detailed origin story: initial 8-week turnaround, power failure on setup day, slow opening that built to packed venue; now 'knocking back contributors because space-wise we can fit more in but it gets too crowded'
- **[sentiment_shift]** Strong positive sentiment toward Pinfest's growth and sustainability; venue relocation to Club Macquarie (closer to organizers) seen as quality-of-life improvement; September date now cemented annually after prior November displacement (confidence: high) — Chris: 'I'm very happy about the move' [to Club Macquarie 10 minutes away]; 'They've now cemented a spot for us every year in September because that's our preferred date' after disruption
- **[community_signal]** Ken Shipley recognized as indispensable technician support enabling hobby sustainability in Australia; Pinfest incorporates tech support during events with Ken's involvement (confidence: high) — Chris: 'without Ken, I wouldn't still be in pinball because he can solve everything. He's a genius' and 'Ken comes along, helps to keep the game running'
- **[market_signal]** Secondary market for vintage pinball machines in early 2000s-2010s (Australia/Asia) enabled rapid turnover trading: buy for $500-$1000, play/refurbish, resell at cost or profit, repeat. Described as 'just so easy' (confidence: high) — Chris describes: 'you'd buy a game and you'd keep it for six months, 12 months, sell it for what you bought it for and buy the next one... it was just so easy... you'd clean them up, you'd play them. And... that was when you could just flip them and then pocket full of money'
- **[community_signal]** Chris Slevin evolved from casual collector (bought first game 2003) to commercial venue operator (Pizza and Pinball 2011-2017) to event organizer (Pinfest ongoing) to manufacturer distributor (Spooky Pinball Australian distributor) (confidence: high) — Career progression explicitly traced: 2003 Countdown purchase → 150 machines collected → Pizza and Pinball venture → Pinfest founding → Spooky distributor role
- **[product_concern]** Hankin Shark and Howzat games developed reputation for board/sound reliability issues despite excellent playfield preservation; unfairly maligned by community despite playfield condition superiority (confidence: high) — Chris: 'they got a lot of flack. They're not the easiest games to keep running... Just board issues... Shark kept having sound problems' but 'The play fields are all beautiful. You rarely see a hankin with a worn-out play field'
- **[licensing_signal]** Hankin Pinball obtained licensed Star Wars pinball in late 1970s-early 1980s era; sourcing method unclear but confirmed as legitimate license by community historical sources (confidence: medium) — Chris states: 'apparently, from what I've been told, it was licensed' for Hankin Star Wars; acknowledges 'I don't know how hard it was, but I do know he had it... I don't know if he knew someone or he just asked the right person'

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## Transcript

 The pinball network is online launching the Aussie pinball podcast hello and welcome to episode 9 of the Aussie pinball podcast This episode we're joined by yet another Novacastrian, this time Chris Slevin, straight out of downtown Newcastle. Chris is famous for a number of things in Australia. Not the least being the founder, with his brother Dom, of Pizza and Pinball, one of the best ex-pinball venues in the country. Chris is also one of the founders of Pinfest, Australia's largest pinball show, and he's also the Australian distributor and importer for Spooky Pinball. How all these three things connect? Let's find out, chatting to Chris. So welcome to the Aussie Pinball Podcast, Chris Slevin, straight out of Newcastle, born and bred with... You're our second Nova Castrian to be on the Pinball Podcast, so it's obviously the centre of pinball in Australia. What do you think? Newcastle always been the centre of pinball in Australia thanks to the Henkin Pinball Company who manufactured pinballs right in the centre of town for a few years we are pinball did you have much to do with David? I have met David a number of times I've had him sign a few games he comes to our festival occasionally nice I'm definitely trying to get a hold of him to come on the podcast he's a bit reclusive now but we'll keep plugging away to get him because he's got so much history involved in pinball in Australia. Fingers crossed. But back to you, baby. So, born and bred at Nova Castrian, what's the appeal of living there? It's just the perfect place, mate. It's right in the centre of the country. We get the beautiful Carl Weathers. We don't get the extreme heat. We don't get the extreme cold. And for travelling-wise, you're right in the centre. You can travel up and down the coast quite easily, and it's a very easygoing, casual sort of town. Like one big suburb really and it seems too easy because it is because the border control is very chilled But then you get to like to the customs, which is the most hardcore place in the world I don't know what the hell happened in Australia, but you guys need to chill out when it comes to fruits People are standing there being strip shirts. Where did you get the Apple? I don't care if you can't speak English You're gonna spend a week in quarantine Mike. Where did you get the Apple? I don't care. I don't care. Where's the Apple from? You see people, it's like, there was a guy that was stopped for weed, it was not marijuana. Oh, don't do it again. But you with the apple, back to where you came from. What did fruit do to your country? No, it's great. You've got some very good golf courses, some very good vineyards around there. Yes, yes, we do. Lots of them too, lots of both of them. I love the Hunter Valley vineyards. I'm quite sure you do. and your pinball background so should we give a clue to how old you are you sprightly young man and how long you've been in the pinball game uh well early 50s i grew up playing pinball i was lucky enough to grow up in that era where pinball was everywhere the corner shops the arcades we had some big arcades thanks to hanken and it was everywhere and i started playing my mom had a corner shop and when i was sort of eight or nine she got the first pinball she got in there was a matter hurry so i used to play out play away on that and a couple of minutes down the road were a couple of corner shops that had three or four in their back room i was 15 minutes away from the local bowling alley which had probably at that stage probably a lineup of 10 machines and yeah they were just everywhere it was awesome did david have anything to do with arcades or just in the manufacturing side no they they ran um some big arcades in newcastle uh the main one would have been orbit one which was opposite the uh one of the local picture theaters in uh the heart of newcastle and that was a mecca you'd go i'm off to the pictures mom and oh but the picture's not for three hours that's all right so you'd be you'd be in there for a few hours and hopefully make your session depending on how much money you had left and then straight back over there afterwards and now I think they had two or three local arcades at that stage and they were they were big places even by today's standard they were big big arcades. So what came first the Orbiter One arcade or the Orbiter One pinball machine? It was just Orbit One not Orbiter One so their first pinball machine was called Orbit I think that was a homage to the already opened arcade. Did not know that. Pinball history. Great stuff. Full of it, mate. Full of it. And I don't want to confuse you with Orbiter. Which is the one with the warped playfield? Is that Orbiter? That's the Orbiter. That's the stern Orbiter. I don't want to slur the original Orbiter one with Orbiter. I mean, you play it once for a novelty, but oh my gosh. Well, that's a bit like Orbiter. It wasn't exactly packed with features. A couple of very targets and some pop bumpers and that. But for a company's first machine, you can't expect too much, and locally produced, so can't complain at all. Excellent. Followed up by some great titles in How's That? Empire Strikes Back and Shark and F.J. So very Australian themes except for Star Wars. I'm busting to find out whether he got an actual licence for Star Wars. I assumed he did, and how hard was it in those days to get it? I don't know how hard it was, but I do know he had it. He had it. Wow. Yep. One of the big licenses to get in those days. So well done, David. Yes. I don't know if he knew someone or he just asked the right person, but yes, apparently, from what I've been told, it was licensed. Wow. Good stuff. So we'll get more gossip for David one day. Now, come on, David. Come on the podcast. So you grew up playing like every kid in the bowling alleys and the fish and chip shops and all that. When did the hobby really bite? So that was the 70s and 80s. And then the arcades, as you know, sort of died off in the 90s. And yeah, I used to play rugby and I gave that up when I was about 33 and started looking for something else to be an interest and fill in my time. And I just thought, how about that pinball dream? I wonder if you can buy them. I wonder what the story is because they were hard to find to play on site. And then I just, one day I was, I grabbed a Yellow Pages and actually I was in Sydney and I grabbed the yellow pages and I tore out a certain page and I went home and just started ringing numbers and most of them were operators who were not really interested in talking to you and I eventually stumbled across a guy who's gone, yeah, I service and sell pinball machines. Come down and have a look. And me and my brother went down one afternoon and spent about four hours there and he was fantastic. He had a shed full of games to sell. He promised us that if anything broke on it, because naturally we knew nothing about them. We knew how to play them, but we'd never taken the class off. And he said, yeah, if anything goes wrong with it, I can fix it. And that afternoon we came home with a Gottlieb solid state, and it just started from there. Wow. What was the game? Countdown. Such a good game. It was a great game. Yeah. And after three months of playing it for a couple of hours a night, we think, oh, we're going to wear this one out. Maybe we should buy some others. And in those three months, nothing had gone wrong with it, so that was a good sign. And so back on the phone, back to Sydney, came home with a couple more. And as you know, one turns into a hundred. So go on, make us all cry. How much did you pay for that first game? I think I got ripped off, really. I paid $1,000. Oh, what year was this? That would have been about 2003. That was actually a fair bit for those days. Well, yeah, well, that's the thing. It wasn't the cheapest. I ended up, in the ensuing few years, I did buy games for a lot cheaper, where you'd buy working ones for $500 and things like that. But you got the countdown for $1,000, and it was a reliable, probably well-maintained gain. It wasn't a beater. Oh, yeah. So, yeah, that's not bad. I mean, there's nothing worse than buying a gain for $500, getting it home, and it lasts three weeks, and then it stops, and you have no idea how to make it work again, and you sit in the corner and it gathers dust. So, no. Yeah. See, if that had happened, it probably would have all ended there. And I was going, oh, well, I'm not wasting any money on that anymore. But because it was so reliable, and like I said, We were pumping three and four hours a night into it. We just thought, oh, this seems to be all right. They're obviously fixable. Yep. And, yeah, so it just built from there. So you bought your one, you bought your second. How many do you reckon you've purchased over the years now? I have lost track, but I reckon I'd be on 150. The minimum number required to be called a hobbyist, yes. Unfortunately, I don't still have them all, or I'd be a retired millionaire. Yeah, it was just the joy of, like, back then where you'd buy a game and you'd keep it for six months, 12 months, sell it for what you bought it for and buy the next one. And it was just so easy. It was unbelievable. So in your collection at any one time, how many games would you have? At the moment now, it's 20. Right. It is what I, and I don't buy a lot anymore because of the prices. And they're, as you know, so hard to find. That's what I can fit in my shed pretty much. And what sort of mix? The NEMs, all solid state, new? I actually have probably one of every era. I've got a wood rail. I've got a couple of EMs. I've got solid state. I've got dot matrix. I've got LCDs. Okay, give me a favorite. No, I'm not going to say because it's the worst question that I get asked all the time, your favorite. I'm going to ask you your secret shame. what game do you love to play that most people don't particularly like? My secret shame. I like solid state games. That's probably my go-to game. I don't really know what everyone else doesn't like, but I know my Hank and Shark, which I unfortunately no longer have, was probably one of my favorite games to play. Hello. Well, hi. Name's Bruce. It's all right, I understand. Why, trust the shark, right? Along with Howzat, I just liked them for some reason, and they got a lot of flack. They're not the easiest games to keep running, I will admit, but I really enjoyed playing them. So I'd say probably shark. Okay. What made them hard to maintain? Reliability. Okay. Just board issues with the main ones. I had the shark kept having sound problems. Once you boost the flipper power on them, they play really well. But because of their board problems, they're all in, like the playfields are all beautiful. You rarely see a hankin with a worn-out play field. And a lot of the times that's because once they stopped operating them, they sat and didn't get used. But luckily for me, I know the best technician in Australia called Ken, who when you twist his arm hard enough, will fix your hankin for you. I'm guessing his last name may be Shipley. That would probably be him. He does all my board work for me, Ken. He's so good. I was probably two years in. I happened to buy a couple of games off an older fellow up around this way, and he gave me Ken's number. And honestly, without Ken, I wouldn't still be in pinball because he can solve everything. He's a genius and a nice player. I mean the underrated person in the whole pinball hobby is the pinball tech so big time Hi, I'm sorry. I just want to get my pinball fixed if that's okay. Yeah sure let's have a look. Oh Sorry, is there a technician in today? Yep, that's me. I'll um So what's it what's the problem on this? It won't boot. Ah right. Yeah Okay, um well I think I know what to do actually great Oh my... what are you doing? Oh f***! Hang on, let me try another thing. This might actually do it. Hold on! One, two, and three. Oh, please stop doing that. How would that work? Alright, there's one other option. No, no! F***! Why did you do that?! God, you f***ed it! There it is. What the...? You fixed it. Well, yeah, sometimes these older models just need a bit of a special touch. A special touch? Yeah. Thank you. Not a problem. We're lucky in Australia that, you know, when I first started collecting here on the Gold Coast, we had a guy called Beaky, whose real name's Andrew, and he used to come over to my house. Someone said, oh, it's a guy here that fixes machines. He came over. He gave a game a once-over, and he arrived at 7, and he left at 12.30 at night, just going through games. And I'm going, I just wanted one thing fixed. She said, oh, no, look at this, look at this. And he just did it, charged me like 50 bucks, and just kept coming over and taught me and fixed games. And my wife goes, who's that man that just keeps coming over? Unfortunately, we lost him to Melbourne, but by then I'd learned a lot about pinball. But we've got so many people around Australia that if you get in pinball hobby you need to find a tech nearby Yes And they are invaluable because they do break and you do have to learn how to maintain them yourself What your favourite pinball maintenance tip that you love or hate the most I think one of the big tips I got on early was get magnetic tools because you drop you unscrew things you drop them and they will disappear and it's amazing where they can go like oh it's sometimes they never come back and you hear tick tick tick tick You're waiting for the dull thud of the base of the cabinet and it never happens. Oh, it's so bad when that doesn't happen. Just those little extendable magnets. Yep. It's like with the telescope thing, just one of them. If you haven't got one of them, you're in trouble. Got one of those. Yep. I've got two or three of those. And then you need your magnetic socket and your magnetic screwdrivers. Yep. With magnets, you will have a lot less stressful time. Yeah, the other thing I use my magnets for is I bought a tumbler when I was restoring a funhouse to put all the metal parts in to vibrate them to the walnut tumbler. You can search for an hour to find missing bolts, but you put your magnet in, stir it around, and then you've got four on the end of your magnet and you're happy. They are indispensable. Yes, multi-tools they are. Yay. Indispensable. So you started buying games. It started to accelerate at a stupid rate. Tell me about moving them around a little around Australia. what happened then? Well, we were lucky enough because I did all of this with my brother Dominic. We lived together, we've got the big shed and we both had the passion. But when we started, we were actually working as crews, not just local couriers we would do interstate couriering and long distance couriering stuff like that so basically we were lucky enough to have at our disposal utes all the time and there's nothing better than a ute when you want to move a pinball machine so it came down to we'd um we'd get long distance jobs to melbourne or queensland and um you'd get on the internet and make some phone calls and see if there was anything for sale and on the way back with your empty ute he thought oh i'll just pop by there and fill up this year so um so it became very easy to transport games for us because we had the right vehicle with the ute and a couple of tarps we moved at least 100 of them games up and down the coast and it was just just a dream was it one at a time how many could you fit in the ute depending on like solid states you could probably fit on a trayback ute if you if depending on how keen you are you can probably fit four on there pretty easily. Wow. We're removing the head box. Yep. Yep. Occasionally I'd have a Pantech truck, a flatbed truck, and I think the most I got on that was a dozen after I quit that job and I ended up with a van. I did manage to jam five in a van one day. So, yeah, if you're a bit imaginative and you've got the Tetra skills and a few ratchet straps, you and you can fill them up. I understand you dropped by a little chap called Tony on the way back from Queensland. One of my favourite pleasures of going to central Queensland was to detour via Brisbane on the way back and peruse what was in his warehouse at the time. And there was always something that seemed to have my name on it and it always seemed to have a couple of friends. So I had to take them all home. And you remember you've shot with him. It was just like you'd go in there and there was something you were looking for and you'd stumble across three or four others and the prices were so amazing, you'd just go, yep, I'll take them all. And you'd go home, you'd clean them up, you'd play them. And like I said, that was when you could just flip them and then pocket full of money, next visit to Tony, here I come. But he was fantastic. He's lined up as a guest later on the podcast too because it's just an amazing number of containers you'd bring in from overseas, refurbish the games within an inch of their life and then, yeah, they'd end up at my house and yours. And lots of other people's houses. He would have had people calling him regularly, I think. So good. And he was fantastic to deal with. Great fellow and just great to deal with. For sure. We miss you, Tony. We miss you. He's still alive. I know he's still alive. He's retired. We will talk with him soon and find out all the dirty stories about people. I'm sure there'll be a few. So the good collection, and then what happened with someone decided to start cooking, I understand. Well, we got sick of the currying after a while, and we had a shed full of pinball machines, and probably at that stage, we probably had 30 would have jammed in there and screw it all right, other people's houses and stuff like that. And I thought, we wanted to do something different, and we wanted to do something with pinball, and not just do something with pinball as in like rent them out or we wanted to bring pinball back to the people and make, because at this stage it was still in Newcastle, there was nowhere to play pinball. Like I said, you'd be lucky to find a pair and we wanted somewhere where you could go and play more than one game, more than one type of game and not the same game all the time. So it was a matter of we've got these games, we can just put them all together, rotate them around and see how we go. And so I gave up the currying job and hunted around and found an old shop, which used to be an Italian restaurant, which had a pizza oven in it. And one of our jobs growing up, we worked for one of the local pizza delivery companies. So we thought, yeah, we know how to make pizza. And so we thought, why not? We'll give it a go. 30 small margaritas, 30 medium supremes, 30 large meat lovers and 30 family El Scorchies. That'll be $600, thanks. And we did. So we took out a three-year lease. We spent three months cleaning up this dilapidated shop that had been abandoned by its previous owners for about eight years. and had a flood go through it in that time. So, yeah, we spent a lot of money and a lot of time fixing that up and we opened Pizza and Pinball in late 2011. The set-up we started out with was we had seven games in the front part of the shop and a couple of tables and after about six months we managed to clean out a back room which we fit, I think we had 12 games in there. So we'd vary between opening the back room for coin play because everything was on coins and we'd also hire it out for parties, which became a huge hit, actually. And not just, and we were thinking, oh yeah, we're going to sort of attract a crowd of our age, sort of, who remembered the pinballs. But the best thing about Peach and Pinball was the guys our age bringing their kids to play and see pinball machines. And so a lot of children had their first experience with pinball and we got to watch and enjoy that for six years we had that ongoing. Wow. Was it licensed? No. That would have helped, but no, it was not licensed. You don't need it when you've got good pizza. Okay, the age-old question, should there be pineapple on pizza? well there can be pineapple on pizza as long as i'm not eating it okay pizza purist yes yes anchovies i prefer not to be in the room with a anchovy pizza but sometimes you have to be but uh no the the aroma of a cooking anchovy is something i'll never forget you've been to pinball conventions so it's a very similar aroma it's not far off yes so that's good so you ran tournaments here as well yeah we um we started up a local monthly league this was at the stage where the ifpa point tournaments were 25 points for tournaments and stuff so the league was ifpa rated so that attracted a few of the better players and we'd have more probably one or two a year we'd just have standalone tournaments. They would just run in the back room while we were busily serving people out the front. We had all sorts from the beginner players coming in and playing to some of the best players that were going around in the country like to come and flog our machines. So it was all sorts. It was good. That's excellent. And then six years, and then what happened? Did you get tired or did the lease run out? Well, it started out with a three-year lease, got another three-year lease, and after six years of running a small business like that, we got tired, basically. it was it was seven days a week it was trying to run the the pizza side of the business it was keeping the pinballs working it was because one of the things we did is we constantly turned over pinballs so every month at least four of the games in the in the place were changing over and after we depleted the 30 we had and everything had been through the shop we were still buying more and more and so it was just a lot of time keeping the games running trying to get new ones up and running and just the general running of the business. And, yeah, it just became too much. Yeah, that's very understandable. So what you decided, I think, is put your feet up, let's have a restaurant pinball, but what we'll do is just organise a pinball convention because that's pretty relaxing and easy to do. Tell me about Pinfest. Well, Pinfest came about in 2012. So that was still early on when we had the shop. I got a phone call from a local club who'd recently opened and they were looking for something to attract people to their venue basically how he ended up with my phone number I'm not really sure he called us and said I've got this great new pub it's got some big auditorium room type things in it I was wondering if you could put on a pinball show and we thought oh pinball show that's a good idea because from the internet we'd seen all the ones in the states and always wanted to go to them, but working like that, we didn't have the chance. And so why not have our own? The only catch was he said the room's available on a weekend in eight weeks' time. Wow. And so I put down the phone and turned to my brother with an amazed look on my face. He's wondering what's going on. I told him what had happened. He's gone, hell yeah. Let's give it a go. That was the start of it. So we put out a call to all the locals we knew and told them this crazy idea. And they were like us and wanted to go to pinball shows, but couldn't afford to be traipsing around the world to do it. They jumped on board straight away. The first year, I think there was 15 contributors. We rounded up 60 games. We organized all this in eight weeks time. We worked out all the logistics of moving them and getting it done. Come the weekend, we spent three days lugging pinballs because the problem with it was we begged, borrowed, and stole games off people. And I said, yeah, you can have my game if you can get it there and bring it back to me. So four of us spent three days with the truck moving pinball machines. And the venue was about 45 minutes to an hour away from, it was sort of south of Newcastle. So it was a bit of a trek. Is that the same location it's at now? No. No, we have moved. Yeah, you're north of Newcastle now, aren't you? No, we're sort of in the western suburbs of Newcastle. We started out down at Caves Beach Side Hotel, which is just down near Swansea there. And we're now at Club Macquarie at Argenton, which is about 10 minutes from my house. So I'm very happy about the move. We set it up. Like the Friday night, we had them all going. Then the power dropped out after we turned on half the machines and we couldn't all of a sudden. there's another problem we had to deal with by the end of the night we got it all working and we went all home exhausted to turn up the next day and honestly wondered what would happen so we showed up at 10 o'clock on the saturday morning we've got all the machines clean we've checked everything's working we're running around like blue ass flies and then opening time came we've opened the doors and no one showed up and we're standing around there for the first half hour and looks at each other and gone who cares we've got a room full of pinballs to play let's start playing pinball so all of us just started we just started playing pinballs and think oh and then people started to sort of wander in in dribs and drabs and then about three hours later the place was packed and like jam-packed it just went on from there we'd me and my brother had fronted the money to set it up and like so the big thought by about 11 o'clock was saying i've just blown all this money but um luckily like i said people came people had a great time uh we kicked them out at five o'clock in the evening and just cleaned the machines and played them ourselves and had a great night up again the next day did it again half the people who were there the day before came back and they was most of them were on the door at opening time because they wanted another hit and um it just went gangbusters and we were getting questions like um so when you won again is it on next month do you take it on the road we're just thinking these people are crazy don't they know how much work this was the uh the venue were over the moon with the response and the amount of people we brought in. And so before we'd even finished, the owners come up and said, same time next year, guys? And we've gone, yeah, why not? Yeah, so it's just grown from there. This year will be our 11th year. We've now changed venues. As I said, we're at Club Macquarie in a bigger space. We've got more people. Of the original we probably still got 10 of those people who are still contributing I think this year numbers are we at about 90 pinball machines with about 65 different contributors Wow. And not just local contributors. We've got contributors coming from Victoria, Queensland. The Tassie Mafia have made us one of their holiday spots, so they come up and join in the fun. Yeah, we have machines come from Brisbane, Mackay, Melbourne. We get Lyndon from the Pinball Museum. He came last year for the first time and had a great time on his back. And over the years, it's just been that. It's just people come. They're nervous about bringing their game for the first time because you're going to cop 300 to 400 games on your game on the weekend. But they come. They set it up. We help them as much as we can. Ken comes along, helps to keep the game running. It runs smoothly. and before the left have gone, what's the date for next year? And they come back. And every year we've just been picking up more and more contributors. At this point now, we've been probably the last two or three weeks, we've been knocking back contributors because space-wise we can fit more in, but it gets too crowded once the people come in. So we try and keep a nice balance of there are machines accessible. And we learn a few things over the last few years because we did manage to put it on both years during the pandemic. We reduced our machine numbers. We went to shorter sessions. We reduced the number of people. But this year we're back to longer sessions, more people. It should be a wow for time. So the website for Pinfest is pinfest.com.au. And date and location? The location is Club Macquarie at Argentine, which is easy to find in Newcastle. I think all their accommodations booked out but there's plenty not too far away and the dates are the 17th and 18th of September right the third weekend in September cool and about that same time every year um yeah we that that's has been our optimal time we did move it a bit later in because the problem with the rooms we now use it's a wedding venue mainly so they did actually have to move us to November for the last two years to fit us in. They've now cemented a spot for us every year in September because that's our preferred date. That's nice. Pinball over matrimony, much better. Perfect. That's great. Excellent. Well, it's how many on your committee that help organise it? Honestly, there'd probably be about six of us. Nice. to do the work, and they have been the same people since pretty much all the start. A few others come and go, but everyone seems to have a specialised job at the moment. Marco is the king of the contributors list. He's also very heavily in our – he pretty much runs our Facebook page, and Brett has been helping with that. Dave Hammo has been our shirt designer since year dot. He likes to pull out some interesting designs. Jeff is our elder statesman who has been a great guiding light to me over the years. And he brings me back on my crazy ideas and suggestions and helps me get things done. And the other guys just come along. They'll help load your games. They'll help unload your games. They'll help clean your games. it's really been everyone once the weekend hits everyone's a part of it and that's that's the great thing it's fairly easy to run now we do like we don't push the envelope too much we know what to do we know what we need and we just try and make it as easy as possible on ourselves and everyone else nice and then they can all just retire for life on the huge profits you make well it's a nice dream but we don't every every profit we make we give to charity oh wow okay over the last year we gave ten thousand dollars to the local charity of soul cafe who uh who helped homeless people on the streets and we've probably raised about a hundred thousand dollars over the 10 years wow nice um and we just want to keep that going see folk this is what pinball people do yeah it was there was no point me trying to run this show and make money out of it it wouldn't have worked i couldn't have done it uh because people wouldn't have helped the way they helped the amount of time they sacrificed the machines they bring along like they prepare beforehand sometimes they go home broken we try and fix everything before it leaves but the travellers who travel for the weekend put themselves up in accommodation, buy food and drink and that kind of thing. It's like it's one thing to have a good time but these people are putting it in their own pocket bringing it out to help us raise money for local charities and that has been something we haven't been able to thank them enough for really and we hope they get the same fuzzy feeling out of it at the end of it when we go this is how much we're giving away this year. So nice. So cool. Well done. Well done. Now for something completely different. We're going to diverge a little. I want a little bit of insight into the best Aussie band or song in your repertoire or playlist that you know of. Who are you going to recommend that people listen to? Best Aussie bands? What solo artist? I picked up a jukebox not long ago, one of the old 45s, and I found Easy Beats songs is something I've been chasing. Oh, so good. Easy beats and then there's stuff I grew up with like Red Gum I was only 19 Angels Skyhawks Paul Kelly Mental as Anything They kept you in a sad face Come up to my place a little You'll be sad You're not allowed to list every great Australian artist in the world. Because they're all brilliant, but easy beats I love. All right. And I have to chuck in the Screaming Jets because they're a local thing. Oh, that's Newcastle. Yep. They've got Screaming Jets and Silverchair. Yep. we're a rockin' town it's not only pinball but we rock as well mate I reckon easy beats for the oldies like me cause they were just extraordinary and screaming jets because they had just out of control or if you really want to find an old one Bob Hudson Oh, no! and they lean out the window and say real cool things to the sheilas on the footpath like is this don't let a chance go by baby yeah good old hudson street oh i remember i remember that was a hit like what the australia playing on their radio that's how we live in newcastle mate don't let the chance go by and apart from music what aussie cinema do you recommend people We'll go and see. Another Newcastle link, Young Einstein. Oh, no. Yahoo Serious. Yahoo Serious. Film me around Newcastle. No. No. Warner Brothers presents a new kind of comedy. His name is... Albert. Albert Einstein. He's so clever. For every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. He was destined to create the most powerful scientific theories in history. I discovered the formula for splitting beer atoms. An atomic bomb. If ever the world needed a revolutionary new theory, it's now. The incredible untold story of the greatest mind of all time. Albert Einstein, apple farmer. No, no, no. He was the tire fitter from Cardiff. Seriously. But young Einstein is filmed around Newcastle. And if you know Newcastle, you just watch that movie and just think, wow, I've been there. I've played there. I've done this I want to go there you had the most extraordinary from nothing to Rich's story and then back to absolute obscurity within two movies what did you do Young Einstein and the Ned Kelly rip off was the second one what was the second one yeah it was the Ned Kelly one yeah the incredible untold story of the greatest outlaw of all time to make an epic like this you've got to be serious what Yahoo serious is Fred Kelly, Gene Kelly, Grace Kelly, Reckless Kelly. I can't remember the name of it. And it just disappeared into nothing. I honestly thought it was a Tasmanian, Newcastle boy. You can be proud. Well done. Oh, yeah. We've got some good ones, mate. What's your preferred holiday spot away from Newcastle? With all your travelling, I mean, did you ever leave the East Coast? Did you get anywhere into the middle or west? We went out to South Australia a few times. We went into central Queensland, Mount Isa and Emerald and all the areas where the mines were. That's what we dealt with mainly. Why? Why? Because the mines need parts and they're willing to pay. Okay. So we were breakdown specialists. So they'd have a machine break down. We'd get the part and take it straight to you. We weren't like a normal courier. They called a hurricane courier. So they'd ring me up any time of the day or night and say, we need one of these motors from this place, and we need it to this mine in the middle of nowhere, and we need it now. And so we'd go and pick it up, and we'd drive it straight there. So from Newcastle to Emerald, you can do it in 14 hours if you're keen enough. Cannonball run style. Yep, that was what we used to do. And they were more than happy to pay the money because they had a half-million-dollar machine sitting there doing nothing. Yeah, wow. We'd get in the part there in 20 hours. They've got it fixed and run enough in another couple and back to making money. Which particular spot in Australia did you get to and look at and go, wow, this is like nowhere else on earth? In the middle of nowhere, in the middle of Queensland, where you'd just be, the stars were so bright and you didn't realise how many stars there were. It was like driving from that stretch between Moree and St George in the middle of the night was always fun. A lot of the times you wouldn't see it during the day, which was strange. and then you'd come back and think, wow, it's just farmland. But at night it's romantic. What are they called? The Min Min Lights. Did you ever see those? Do you know about those? No. In central Australia, they often used to talk about cars driving late at night and they'd see lights coming towards them and then they would get closer and closer and then disappear and it was always this odd optical illusion. I think it had a little bit to do with heat and mirage and all that sort of stuff, but it would confuse people that there was a truck coming towards them and it would disappear. And they used to call them the Artesian Lights. We didn't experience that. Luckily, I didn't experience that because it would have scared the crap out of me. Close encounters of the fourth kind in Australia. All right, so middle of Australia, lots of stars, navigate by the Southern Cross. You're an old romantic at heart, really, aren't you? Oh, yeah, I am. But I've also got to agree with Michael from AMD. Nelson's Bay is just like, for me, it's 40 minutes up the road. and it is a beautiful spot to spend some time. Or, as you say, the Hunter Valley up amongst the vineyards. Like I said, Newcastle's perfect. Within an hour, I've got – there's rainforest, there's vineyards, there's beautiful coastline everywhere, and it's just – that's why I love Newcastle. It's got everything. One of those gardens just outside Newcastle that we've been to a couple of times that have got all the sculptures in one area and – Probably Hunter Valley Gardens up amongst the vineyards. The Bellegards are extraordinary. Great for the kids. They've got that whole... They do an amazing Christmas light show. Yes, we went to that. It runs for like two months. They had a white Christmas with artificial ice cream and snow fields and all that set up there. Wheel him round the other side, nana. But things change pretty bloody quick. I've got kids now of me own. And I heard them unwrap their prezzies last night when I got home. Hey, Santa Claus, you... Where's me... I've unwrapped all this other junk and there's nothing that I like. I wrote you a letter and I come to see you twice. You worn-out geriatric bunch have forgotten me... Yeah. Indeed. And it's a great place just to wander around. Yeah. So back to pinball. Now, the first thing I ever heard about pizza and pinball was on a little podcast called the Spooky Pinball Podcast where every episode they would advertise Pitcher and Pinball in Newcastle. And I thought, oh, they must have like regional ads on this podcast. Why is a company based in Wisconsin in America advertising a pizza place in Newcastle? What the heck is going on there? Well, we actually were the official pizza shop of the Spooky Pinball Podcast. Again, why? Basically because Chuck's a great fella. I used to listen to his Spooky Pinball podcast. I think I won one of his monthly quizzes, which was just the names of the dozen or so pinball sounds from his collection. And I won that one time, and we just started emailing back and forth and sort of just how you're going and what was going on and that sort of thing. and I think it was just before we opened the shop when he quit his job and decided to start the Spooky Pinball Company which partly inspired us to make the bold move to throw it all in and make a big change and try something else. Naturally enough, we told him what we were doing and he was over the moon for us and thought it was a great idea. He just randomly sent us the picture that I think Jessie alluded to in her interview with you that was just a picture of Charlie and KT and a very young bug and squirrel which was a promotional poster for their podcast just out of the blue and that's something we hung in the shop from day one and it didn't move once again I was just emailing back and forth and that's enough we'd never met he'd never been here I'd never been there and then he moved on to making the America's Most Haunted and was selling them. As you point to yours and I point to mine because we've both still got them. And he was selling them slowly as the story goes. And I was harassing is probably a harsh word, but haranguing him, trying to say, I want one. I want one. I want to buy one. And he's thinking, oh, yeah, sure, sure, sure. I did it long enough that the idea actually stuck in his head. And luckily it stuck in his head not long before that Texas show he went to and sold out and as i discovered there were a few other australians who were doing the same thing so yourself included and it turned out i think there was half a dozen in the first one and he was very skeptical because he was just a bloke in the middle of wisconsin knocking up pinball machines a lot of them he sold friends and people he knew i don't think that many of them went that far from wisconsin to start with and he could go and service them and sort them out if anything went wrong or someone could send it back to him and he was very nervous about sending them overseas and i said why not give it a go i'll what could possibly go wrong what could possibly go wrong send me a few extra spares if if anything goes wrong i'll help out the people do it we'll help each other out it'll be there'll be no comeback on you it's not like we're going to put it back in the box and send it back in go fix the locks missing off the door yes back back in the good old days when people who bought pinball knew what they were doing knew what they were getting in for and were willing to take the glass off and fix it themselves i finally convinced him to do it and so he got onto the the five other buyers and it happened and we got them shipped over in a there's a part container load in the container i went down to Sydney and picked them up, brought them home, and shipped them off to everyone else. And everything went great. Everyone loved the game. We didn't have any serious problems. Any problems we had, you could either email him or ring him and get tech support. It went really well. He was happy with it. I was happy with it. Life was good. And then it just continued on to this day. We did, I think we did 12 Rob Zombies. and I think of them 12 the original six bought one and then we found six others and then there was TNA I think that was about I think it was about 20 of them came in so the first two Cotings Park container load then we got the 20 thought this is enough to put in our own container so that we started putting in 20 foot containers and it was just the same system you'd buy off him me and KT would organize the shipping you'd pay your bill when it got here you'd pay the GST import fee which split it between everyone I'd get the machines here to Newcastle and then everyone would organize their own shipping and can eat it all from there and it's just grown and grown and grown and every title he brings out seems to we sell more I think we're up to 35 expected Halloweens and Ultramans which should be probably by the time this airs, might actually be in the container on their way. Nice, nice. So when did you actually get to meet Charlie? Well, after we closed the shop, flogged off a few games because we didn't have room to bring them all home, basically. We thought we'd go to the stage and actually go to one of these pinball shows we'd been dreaming of. And so end of, I don't know, start of 2018, we trekked off to America for what ended up being a three-month stay. and we first met Charlie at the Texas Pinball Festival, which happened to be the same place I met you for the first time. Actually, the only time, which has always been strange to me, but that's how life goes. And that was the one where he was revealing Alice Cooper. And so we got to see the Alice Cooper reveal, which was very nice. And we also got to watch Bowen destroy TNA. But, yeah, so they knew we were coming naturally enough. They got us all access passes to the show, and we had a good time. We'd been in the States for probably three weeks before then. We went to Vegas just to go to the Pinball Hall of Fame, and we just went around hunting pinball arcades and museums for a few months. So we made our way to Texas, and then we actually made our way to Wisconsin, and we were lucky enough to stay with Charlie and Katie and his family in their house for about six weeks. And to fill in the time, because there's not a lot to do in Benton, it is actually the quiet, sleepy town that he tells us. We went and worked in the pinball factory when they were producing T&As. And what were you doing? I ended up wiring the T&A playfields, which was, I was wiring playfields and Dom was doing cabinet assembly. And it was an eye-opening time. Like, we really got to see how the place worked and we got to meet all the guys. And one thing that amazed me, out of all the – there was probably – they had 10 staff at that stage. One of them owned a pinball machine. All the rest were just young local blokes who'd given jobs to and they all had specific areas they worked in and they were very good at them. Yeah, they didn't know a lot about pinball, but they loved what they were doing and it was a great time. It was a great place to work, except for Lucas and his country music. and he's too big to complain to I let him know how I felt because he'd sit up in the bay next to me for a few hours a day assembling the playfield mechanisms onto the playfield which then would come over to me or Seth to wire up and so he'd get out his usually his country music, blare it out thinking he was annoying me Oh, the killers think I'm handsome Their fathers think I'm mad Their mothers think I'm a villain But I'm just a lovable lad It was pretty funny, but I gave him a bit of a time about it occasionally. Yeah, so we joined the Minions and became Minions for six weeks and lived in Charlie and Katie's house just as they were their old house while they were building their other one, and we just had a great time. And, yeah, Charlie Emery really is the nicest guy I've ever met in pinball. He's just a lovely fella. KT is fantastic. They couldn't do enough for us. Bug and Squirrel were great, and all the other minions were great. We just had a ball of the time. They are so cool. They're good. You should have played the Newcastle song over and over for Lucas. I really should have, shouldn't I? Next time I think I might. You're on unusual behavior. No, but I said to you earlier, the first time I met them at Texas, I was overwhelmed for a couple of days just wondering, meeting everyone, drinking, having a great time playing pinball. I was in the spooky booth chatting to them and Charlie brought all this Chinese food in and he looked at me and said, do you want some dinner? I said, oh yes. He said, have you had dinner? I said, I haven't had anything to eat for about a day and a half, so yes, please. So I brought a couple of bottle of wines over. I think Brian Kelly drank one and a half of them. That sounds about right. We managed to share the leftovers and had some lovely Chinese food. I ended up being interviewed and appearing on their podcast title logo. But, no, they are wonderful folk, and I love their games, and I'm very much looking forward to the next title that they release, the little birdie tells me it's going to be another killer like Rick and Morty. So we'll wait and see. I know they're well into development of it, but exactly what that will be, we'll have to wait and find out. Exciting stuff. All right. Well, that's been really cool to chat to you and catch up again, even though it wasn't in person. And I look forward to meeting you again. And best of luck with Pinfest and your future endeavours. Yeah. Good on you, mate. alright, thank you very much John I've been enjoying the podcast, you're doing great work it's good to hear an Aussie voice talking pinball personally I do not listen to many podcasts but I think I stumbled across yours when I saw the Michael Bower interview possibly posted to their page and I listened to your back catalogue and I think you're doing a great job. It all depends on the people I talk to and you're one of them baby oh mate, you draw All right. Catch you next time. And that's it for this podcast. I hope you enjoyed catching up with yet another Nova Castrian and learning all about his involvement with Pinfest, Pizza and Pinball and Spooky Pinball. And we'll leave you with one of his favorite tracks from the Screaming Jets. And don't forget, all feedbacks welcome. Aussie Pinball Podcast at gmail.com. catch you again in a couple of weeks and I think we'll have a chat to Tony Turner of the Pinball Shed fame speak to you then, bye bye I still didn't know what happened when you knocked upon my door The things you had in your life were the dreams you had before Your eyes are facing your heart, so you know they said it all What happened on that day back then, the moment hurt us all Now you see the reason why I let go of the sail And you don't have to please him, but I'll have the same day I said I'd get away, but they don't care It's just not fair that you know that I know better Send you in, but I don't care This is nothing to know, and I know better Yes, I do Well, the weeks go by and you wonder why This is really true Your heart said no, but you're feeling sure Come on, thank you, nephew You will die when you get down, that ain't for you We always do the thing to work out right, we should start to go And I can see the reason why not everyone's safe If you don't have a place down, I'll try hard to save you there If you never get anywhere, well you don't care It's just not fair, you know, and I know better I say I'll get it when I'm out there It's just not there, you know that I know Yeah Look at me now, it's a wild place, it's a wake up in Get out of your dream, get out of your dream It's a wild place, it's a wake up Well, things ain't always what they seem Yeah, cause man, you're in my dream And things ain't always Oh, thanks to the reason why I never say You don't have to please them, it's our heart To get it right Well, they don't care, it's just not fair And you know that I don't care They said you'll never get anywhere I bet it's just not fair In your heart and I know better They said you'll never get anywhere I bet it's just not fair In your heart and I know better 1, 2, 3, 4 They said you'll never get anywhere I bet it's just not fair You're never gonna get anywhere, that's what they tell me Never, never, never, never, never, never, never going anywhere We don't care, and that's not fair You say you'll get anywhere And it's just not fair But you know And I know Thank you.

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