# We Try To Start An Arcade + Pinball School!! **Source:** Bash Pinball Podcast **Type:** podcast_episode **Published:** 2025-10-02 **Duration:** 45m 22s **Beat:** Pinball **URL:** https://www.bashpinball.com/2025/10/02/s2-arcadepinballschool/ --- ## Analysis Bash Pinball hosts discuss their journey toward becoming pinball operators and arcade owners in the Chapel Hill, North Carolina area. They recount exploring a potential pinball club space, researching licensing and business models, and ultimately deciding to chronicle their arcade development efforts in Season 2. They also launch a new 'Pinball School' segment analyzing what beginner and intermediate players learn from specific games, using Hook as a detailed teaching example. ### Key Claims - [MEDIUM] A new pinball game on location should pay itself off in six months (best case) to one year — _Operators at Pinball Expo arcade operating seminar (Logan Arcade, Electric Bat Arcade, Wedgehead) stated this metric; hosts learned this from industry discussion_ - [MEDIUM] Portland metropolitan area has significantly more pinball machines than the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill triangle despite similar population size — _Alan from Wedgehead shared this comparison; hosts characterize their area as a 'pinball desert' with only ~6 games within 15 minutes_ - [MEDIUM] Most arcades make 50-70% of revenue from food and drink, not games — _General pinball industry knowledge referenced from other podcasts and arcade operation discussions_ - [HIGH] North Carolina private club liquor licensing is restrictive and prevents advertising or public guests — _Direct research on state regulations during their planning process; bona fide guest requirement limits public access_ - [HIGH] It took the speaker approximately 20 hours of Hook gameplay before feeling comfortable with basic aiming and control — _First-time pinball player tracked hours explicitly; marked transition from frustration to competence_ - [MEDIUM] Hook's left ramp is significantly more engaging than most modern game skill shots — _Opinion from speaker who contrasts Hook's wind coaster ramp favorably against 90% of modern skill shot designs_ - [HIGH] The Chapel Hill/Carrboro area has community demand for accessible pinball but nowhere to play regularly — _Direct anecdote: person at social gathering approached speaker requesting pinball venue; locals expressing need_ ### Notable Quotes > "If it doesn't do this [six months payoff], there's a problem." > — **Arcade operator panel at Expo (paraphrased)**, Early in episode > _Established financial viability model that motivated hosts' operator dreams_ > "There's certainly interest in our local small network of people from here. We have willing participants when the next opportunity arises now." > — **Bash host**, Mid-episode > _Community support exists despite failed first location attempt_ > "He was like, what can you do? To hunt the pinball savior." > — **Bash host (storytelling)**, Late-episode anecdote > _Illustrates genuine local demand for pinball venue_ > "If we build it, they will come." > — **Both hosts**, Near conclusion > _Encapsulates their vision and determination despite setbacks_ > "It took me roughly about 20 hours of just playing hook until I was like, okay, I'm starting to feel like I can kind of aim the ball." > — **Bash host (newer player)**, Pinball School segment > _Establishes learning curve baseline for complete beginners_ > "That one thing alone was really all I cared about. Just hitting that ramp over and over again because it's really satisfying." > — **Bash host (newer player)**, Pinball School segment > _Highlights importance of immediate satisfying feedback loop in game design for retention_ > "Most games have comparatively kind of lame skill shots." > — **Bash host**, Pinball School segment > _Industry criticism of modern game design onboarding_ > "Hook skill shot is still more fun than 90% of modern game skill shots." > — **Bash host**, Pinball School segment > _Specific design praise and modern comparison_ ### Entities | Name | Type | Context | |------|------|---------| | Bash Pinball | organization | Podcast hosted by the speakers; also the prospective name for their planned arcade venture | | Chapel Hill, North Carolina | location | Primary target market for planned arcade; described as pinball desert with ~6 machines in 15-minute radius; characterized as underserved area | | Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill Triangle | location | Broader metropolitan region; hosts describe population similarity to Portland but significantly fewer pinball machines | | Pinball Expo | event | Annual industry event where hosts attended arcade operator seminars and sourced business planning information | | Electric Bat Arcade | organization | Established arcade featured on operator panel at Expo; reference point for business model and scale | | Logan Arcade | organization | Arcade operator referenced for business seminar at Expo | | Wedgehead | organization | Arcade operator (Alan) who provided comparative market analysis between Portland and Chapel Hill areas | | Hook | game | 1992 Williams pinball machine featured extensively in Pinball School segment; used as primary teaching tool for skill development and game design pedagogy | | Lord of the Rings | game | Described as favorite game of speaker; used to teach multiball stacking and game strategy | | Dungeons & Dragons | game | Modern game example requiring extensive learning curve; mentioned as contrast to 90s games | | King Kong | game | Modern game example used for learning curve discussion | | Hurricane | game | 1991 Bally Williams pinball machine (third in circus trilogy); non-functional machine at local venue; notable for hurricane ramp | | Jack Danger | person | Referenced as designer/expert who may be at skill ceiling where game design becomes necessary for continued interest | | Keith Owen | person | Referenced alongside Jack Danger as elite player who may have reached skill ceiling | | Kyle | person | Local pinball player who taught hosts strategy and proper technique on Lord of the Rings | | Alan | person | Wedgehead operator who provided Portland vs Chapel Hill market comparison | | Richmond Pinball Collective | organization | Referenced as model for subscription-based free-play arcade structure being researched | | Nudge Magazine | product | Pinball lifestyle magazine; giveaway prize mentioned in episode opening | | Arabian Nights | game | Mentioned as game with skill shot comparable to Hook's engaging design philosophy | | Pinbot | game | Referenced as game with cool skill shot design | | Comet, Cyclone, Hurricane | game | Circus trilogy of Williams pinball machines from early WPC era | ### Topics - **Primary:** Arcade/operator business model and finance, Licensing and regulatory barriers to arcade operation, Game design pedagogy and learning curves for beginners, Skill shot design and player engagement, Local pinball community development and market gaps - **Secondary:** Season 2 content roadmap and podcast evolution, Game-specific strategy (Hook, Lord of the Rings, modern LCD games), Competitive vs casual player mindset shifts ### Sentiment **Positive** (0.75) — Enthusiastic about community-building potential and learning journey despite operational setback. Hosts demonstrate resilience and maintain forward momentum despite failed first venue attempt. Educational segment tone is encouraging and celebratory of incremental learning progress. ### Signals - **[business_signal]** Hosts exploring pinball operator model as expansion of personal collections; researching location-based revenue streams to fund game acquisitions (confidence: high) — Detailed discussion of six-month payoff model, subscription vs public models, rent economics of specific 650 sq ft space - **[community_signal]** Launch of 'Pinball School' educational segment reflects broader community trend toward pedagogical content and beginner onboarding documentation (confidence: medium) — New segment format focused on extracting lessons from specific games; intention to cover 'technical stuff, game fixing stuff, technique stuff, life stuff' - **[community_signal]** Chapel Hill/Carrboro area identified as underserved pinball market with documented community demand but no viable venue options (confidence: high) — ~6 machines in 15-minute radius; direct anecdote of stranger requesting pinball venue at social gathering; comparison to Portland showing similar population but vastly more machines - **[design_philosophy]** Hook's wind coaster ramp and engaging skill shot identified as primary retention mechanism for beginner player; highlights importance of immediate satisfying feedback loops in game introduction (confidence: high) — New player reported 20-hour engagement primarily driven by ramp satisfaction; hosts contrast Hook favorably against 90% of modern skill shots; describes ramp as 'enticing' and core engagement driver - **[licensing_signal]** North Carolina private club regulations create significant barriers to entry for subscription-based arcade model; bona fide guest requirement prevents public access and advertising (confidence: high) — Hosts extensively researched and ultimately rejected private club model due to regulatory constraints; specific mention of beer lockdown requirements and guest limitations - **[market_signal]** Hosts' acquisition of 10 machines collectively suggests collector/enthusiast category accumulation parallel to operator model exploration (confidence: medium) — Mention of 'roughly 10 machines between us and our group' and consideration of co-location for operational efficiency and maintenance - **[community_signal]** Speaker demonstrates rapid skill progression (casual player to intermediate strategy learner in 2-3 years) driven by community engagement and competitive motivation (confidence: high) — Speaker characterizes skill improvement in last 2 years as exceeding entire prior play history; attributes gains to team environment and competitive exposure - **[sentiment_shift]** Shift from casual entertainment to competitive/strategic mindset; speaker notes internal tension between fun and performance optimization (confidence: high) — Quote: 'I have to check myself a little bit when I get frustrated about not doing well'; contrast between 'side thing' to 'continuous challenge' with high skill ceiling --- ## Transcript Hi there. Real quick, we are in the middle of a giveaway that you can still enter through October 14th, 2025. You can win a bunch of cool merch, coffee, and a Nudge 5 magazine. Listen to last week's episode to find out how to enter or check us on Instagram or Facebook at Bash Pinball for the details. And now back to the show. for those that know who we are i'm i'm a dad now but you have a 12 year old now yeah yeah i got a 12 year old in a year yeah we'll just leave it there that makes sense yeah time travel portals you get it yeah it's it's happened before actually yeah in this show season one time traveling is crazy by the way the goo is real it's goo the time travel goo yeah okay when you come out the other side you're covered in goo yeah but it's it protects you it protects your skin you have to put it on first no it just somehow like angels or some some something as you cross the portal the goo is applied yeah during the transfer yeah it's like walking through like a waterfall but It's goo. Okay. And it just envelops your body and then it somehow protects your skin and organs. So like the portal is goo filled. Yeah, but you don't see it or feel it. Gotcha. Until you come out. It's like a byproduct of the transition from one dimension or time into another. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. That makes total sense. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, do you think you've gotten better at pinball in the last year? Oh my God, 100%, man. I think, you know, I'm 37. I've been playing since I was... Oh, you're old. Yeah, yeah, I'm old. I'm an old man. To the young ones. To the young ones. I've been playing since I was like 15, just casually. I would easily say within the last two years. Like my skill set has improved probably more than my entire time before that. Do you think that would have happened had I not gotten into pinball? Yeah. No, I don't think so. I think the teamwork makes the dream work. Yeah, I think I would have just been totally complacent, just popping in the arcade real quick, playing a couple games, leaving and not talking to anyone, just not really learning the rules, the skills, what a dead flip is, none of that stuff, man. So you're more hardcore now since we got collectively into pinball. Yeah, I think I have to still check myself a little bit. When I get a little too frustrated about not doing well, I have to remember what I'm doing because I think I am starting to see more of the competitive side get into more of like I don't know beating the game kind of stuff whereas before it was just more of like a fun thing to do on the side and figure it out for myself but for a modern day game like a game that came out like King Kong or whatever Dungeons and Dragons actually a better example how long would it take me to figure that game out so you know like a 90s game like a 90s Williams game or something you could figure out pretty quickly and easily just playing it shoot the lit shots today that's one of the things that i'm grateful for in this sense right it's broadened my horizons in terms of skill set and also learning more about pinball in general i feel like i just keep trying to get better at it it's like a continuous challenge and i feel like the skill ceiling is so high yeah on pinball i think that's what draws me to it you can keep getting better and better and better you're never too good like yeah yeah except if you're Jack Danger or Keith Owen. Those guys are just bored of pinball now. That's funny. I mean, at that point, you're just like, well, I guess I have to design games if I'm going to still be interested in this because they've maxed out their skill. That's their pinball story arc. Yeah. We'll get there. We'll get there. You know, we do have a couple of our own original ideas for themes. I think we're going to be sharing. Yes. Yes. This season. No spoilers. That's going to be fun. Actually, maybe. I would say we have the potential to make games if we had time. Yeah, that's like the X factor is the time. But we actually have, I would say, a crew of people that would probably be all in. Within our network, we have capable people of doing this. We do. We do. And the ideas are like, dude, I personally have a list. You have quite a list. I'm excited to share those with you. With you. the listener. Maybe that's season three. Maybe we design a game in season three. It's not going to be season two. I can tell you that. No way. Season two. Season two. Dos. One of the big things that we're going to be talking about in season two is our journey to become pinball operators. Operators. Slash arcade owners. Sometime after Expo last year, so November or something of last year, Don, you had been going to a local bar. Got to know the owner a little bit and was like, pinball. Pinball. So that was kind of the inkling to maybe we got all these games. It was an idea, yeah. And I certainly think that Expo did play a part in it. Being there in the environment, all the people, all the games, different types of people, operators, like people running routes, arcade owners, techs, everyone doing everything pinball related. I was curious how much money you actually make on these games on location. Some of the people we were listening to were talking big numbers. The arcade, operating an arcade seminar. At Expo, yeah. It was Logan Arcade. Logan Arcade. Electric Bat Arcade, Wedgehead. The thing that stuck out to me was one of them said, a new game on location should pay itself off in six months. Yeah, six months, best case scenario kind of thing. I think maybe up to a year. But it was like a statement. It was like, if it doesn't do this, there's a problem. That kind of gave me like, wow, this actually could make money or we could get a free game, quote unquote, if we put one in somewhere. yeah yeah so that kind of started the gears turning for me yeah if you think of it in terms of i want to get more games and how can i fund them right well just buy it and then put it on location and then six months let's open up open up that door yeah six grand in there now of course they were talking about their arcades which are established locations and have 30 games 80 games of course so yeah i mean but it got the seed planted and the gears turning and yeah it does make you think like the local operator here who shall not be named buys le's like how are how can they afford to buy le's if they're not they buy exclusively le's which is we're always just like how how does this make financial sense yeah they must be making money off of these things yeah well you know where we live which is north carolina north kaklaki the triangle area yeah Yeah, the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill triangle. It's pretty small. So for me, I see it as an opportunity or I saw it in the moment. When I was thinking about it, I was like... Well, it's small in terms of population or in terms of the amount of pinball? No, just pinball. Right, right, right. Pinball awareness. Right. Pinball is not a big thing here. Where we live, if you zero in a little closer, within 15 minutes where we live, there are literally, what, like six games, maybe? it's a little bit of a pinball desert yeah but what i learned from alan at wedgehead was that portland like the metropolitan area of portland isn't that much bigger than our metropolitan area here and they have literally 1 billion more machines than we do insane number of games it was like an insane number and they're doing pretty well so it just tells you that there's opportunity yeah and that this area is underserved it is it is for good quality pinball and i think that subconsciously was also turning around in my head fast forward did some work research mostly you we found a game which you know that's a story that's a whole other story which actually will be the next episode. We went through great lengths to show you the story. Everybody has stories about getting games. This is the story to beat all stories. That'll be the next episode. Yeah. It's doozy. That's all I can say, because it was definitely an experience. I don't know if anyone has ever experienced what we did picking up that game. But that kind of birthed, like you said a whole other line of thinking because we do own roughly 10 machines between us and our group so we were like we should keep this happening it's not much of a stretch to think what if they were all in one place that we could control make sure everything's good the people coming in are cool like no one's going to mess anything up. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. And now for a word from our sponsor. It's tough being a big kid. The bus driver hollered at me. I lost my lunch money. My teacher told me I wasn't living up to my full potentiality. And I don't even know what that means. But at Showbiz PC, you can act like a kid. You should have more fun than you ever did. You can giggle, you can wiggle, you can flip your legs. Show this pizza where a kid can be a kid. And now, back to the show. Yeah, so a spot opened up where I already rent a space where my workshop is. and where you also work. That was the birth of your pinball baby. Yep. Same building. Same building. It's an old school building from the 1920s. And I was informed by the landlord that there was a new space opening up where a previous tenant had vacated. And so we were like, hmm, the rent here is cheap. So we went and checked out this space. It was like 650 square feet or something. And we like how could we make this work It was perfect man Yeah The price the space the vibe Yeah High ceilings Super high ceilings Wood floors just a rectangle or square basically of a room Lots of natural light. Right. And lots of outlets on the walls. Minimal electrical work required. Man. Yeah. Heat and air conditioned and a bathroom. Right. What else do you need? Money. So we started going down this rabbit hole of could we make this work? Could we turn this into the Bash Pinball arcade? Or what would it be? How would we do it? I mean, yeah, we started recruiting people, just gauging interests on how much money would you contribute monthly to have access to the space. There was multiple questions about how we could make this space work. Because it's a little bit rural. It's not a slam dunk location. That was the only... And that's why the rent is cheap. So, you know, it was in Chapel Hill, but it's like kind of, you know, it's 10 minutes outside of town. 10, 15 minute drive from like the main town. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like, well, we know the location is not optimal for foot traffic. Right. So what do you make it? because it's, you know, also parking is somewhat limited. You know, there's maybe like 30 parking spaces or something total. Actually, not even that many, 25 parking spaces. Yeah, yeah. And so the concept initially was like, we could make this a pinball club. Right. You know, quote unquote, private club. So we started going down that rabbit hole of like, how does that work, first of all? Right. And is that the best way to approach this? People would pay a monthly subscription fee. And have access to the games. I think we figured we could fit between 15 and 20 machines in there. Right. And we would rotate them out and have some of them on route and stuff like that. Ultimately, I got the gears turning. Just the thought of like, how do we grow and expand the local pinball community while also giving us a central location? It also was really appealing that it was very close to literally where you live and where our workshops are. Right, right. So it'd be really easy to just keep up with and maintain. That was a big selling point. It's right where we already are all the time. So many pros. Yeah, lots of pros. But the cons were the liquor license situation. situation because if you guys have listened to other podcasts or learned about starting an arcade you might know that most arcades make at least like half to 70 percent of their money off of food and drink right and if you do the math on charging a subscription you have to have quite a few people just to break even right unless you're also making money off of other stuff because this would be like a free play situation, like a Richmond Pinball Collective kind of situation. But what we found is that in North Carolina, it's actually real tricky to set that up. A private club can't advertise. You can't have guests off the street. It has to be like an approved... A bona fide guest. Right, that's the word, bona fide guest somehow. So you can't advertise to get guests and you can't have guests except for bona fide guests, i.e. people that the members already know and are friends with or whatever. So it became this thing where it's like, well, if we can't bring people in, the only way to do it is literally by like word of mouth. Right. You can't advertise it. You can't have it open to the public, even like on weekends or anything like that. So it got to be really confusing and complicated. The whole private club thing started to seem like maybe a bad idea in the state of North Carolina. Right. I think we're also hoping it could be minimally staffed if it was a private club. But then also you can't sell beer unless the beer is on lockdown. Sure. And you can't have like a self-serve beer situation where somebody is like operating a touch screen and like grabbing it out of the fridge. You can't do that. They won't let you do that. So, yeah, like a lot of the little technicalities of it made it seem much more, I don't know, just hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I still think we could have made something of it because the rent was really cheap and we could have kept our games there. We could have made our podcast there. we're also going to make it like our little podcast studio like an hq yeah our the bash hq we can still dream man i think just as an exercise that kind of got us thinking about it i think it's okay we can still dream yeah as it turned out that space was not available after all after all of this like so rabbit hole yeah yeah they had vacated but technically still wanted it so anyway it ended up, we went down this long rabbit hole and then the landlord was like, actually, it's not available. But through this process, like you said, we did get people on board. We had conversations with other folks who were interested. There's certainly interest. Partnering up. Certainly interest in our local small network of people from here. Yeah. We have willing participants when the next opportunity arises now. Right. So that's exciting. And actually, like, we already have some possible other opportunities coming up. And I think as long as we keep going with that mindset, I think whenever the space presents itself and if we're ready, it'll be the right time. Yeah. So I think season two of this show, we're going to chronicle our arcade exploits. Right, right, right. and wait you're saying we're gonna make an arcade this season well not necessarily but we're going to continue in our efforts to you know both route games and continue the dream of starting our own spot we should here yeah within our local area i this is a true story by the way there was a Friends get together for a going away party. And I was out with Sarah. We were at a local place that happens to have a hurricane that's not working. A hurricane 1991 pinball machine? Yes. Bally Williams? Yes. Berrio? Mr. Python, right? Early WPC. Right. It's cool. It's the third in the circus trilogy. Comet, Cyclone, and Hurricane. Yeah. It's a little clunky, but I can get into it if it works right. This one does not. The hurricane ramp is one of the best ramps in any pinball machine. But that's pretty much all it's got going for it. So this place we were at, which by the way, I just remembered had that game because it doesn't work. So I completely forgot it was even there. One of the guys that I had met through the other bar came up to me and he goes, Hey man, I need to talk to you. I was like, what's up? He goes, we need to do something about pinball here. He's like, there needs to be a place where we can play more games. He goes, right now, there is nowhere for me to play pinball here. Like legit, he came up to me. He was like, what can you do? To hunt the pinball savior. So anyways, it's true, dude. Like here, Chapel Hill, for sure. Carrboro, Chapel Hill. Yeah. Maybe even Hillsboro. But like this immediate area. This area definitely needs it. And there are people who want to play pinball. who can't. And I think if anything, right, I think what we're doing is proving that the community will form itself if they are given good pinball. Yeah. If your experiences with the trash game that doesn't play right and it's not enjoyable, but if your experiences with your friends at a bar having fun together. Yeah. So I think that's what we need to make. Yeah. This place, this thing, this thing that people can go to to experience pinball in this way needs to be here in Chapel Hill. I think we can provide that. We should provide it. You know what? I just had this random thought. If we build it, they will come. Oh, you read my mind. I know, yeah. Ever since I traveled to the portal with the goo, I can see the future sometimes. In that case, I knew what you were going to say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Never heard that expression before. What was that beautiful song that we just heard? Some of you may be familiar with the fact that There was a little known show In the 80s And it kind of got into the 90s Called Saved by the Bell Saved by the Bell Did you watch it? No Was that on in Panama? Yeah Maybe I was too young I have a memory of the show I know what the people look like I know the song Zach Morris, A.C. Slater, Mario Lopez Screech, Dustin Simon How do I know that? Elizabeth Berkley It's locked in there So what are we doing? Well hopefully we're not going to get a copyright strike Nah Because we sang a new song And wrote some new words And remixed the track a little bit So we'll see if that works But yeah This is Pinball School Pinball School It's alright Because it's Pinball School Basically, this is a new segment What are we learning? We're learning all kinds of stuff What's listener learning? Well, yeah, listener could be learning I mean, this is like anything But yeah, this could be like technical stuff Game fixing stuff Technique stuff Life stuff Pinball life stuff Yeah, anything that you could be learning about pinball We might talk about in this segment It's just what pinball taught us. Yeah, what we've learned about or from pinball. Cool. Pinball school. Pinball school. Pinball school. I thought a good way to start this off would be talking about what some games have taught us like what we learned from certain games I only been playing pinball for two to three years now Right So I have a pretty fresh memory of learning to play pinball So I think I might have some tidbits to share about how I learned how to play pinball. Cool. And then you too. You've been getting new games. You've been dramatically improving your skills in the last couple of years. I've learned a lot about pinball. It used to be, when I started, just this little side thing. Not even a hobby, dude. What's below a hobby? What's right before a hobby? Pastime? Anyways, whatever that is, that's what it was. And after acquiring my first game, which was Hook. To be fair, it was a big enough... I think it qualifies as a hobby if you've spent thousands of dollars on it. Well, it's been a journey. you know because like as i got older and i was looking for things to do singling and mingling and going to bars and stuff it was just a way to meet the ladies it was like i kind of had this like super effective strategy no i mean but you know like uh from being 16 or 15 or playing randomly whenever i would see one at like a pizza place or arcade to being like a working adult making my own money and spending it on things. It was something to do while I was hanging out with people or waiting for friends at a bar. That was like the second phase where I took it a little bit more seriously because I'm spending my own money. I'm actually more interested in the themes and stuff and I'm seeing other people that actually know how to play. I'm learning and I'm picking up little tips and skills, right? I'll never forget this guy. His name is Kyle. He showed me how to play lord of the rings which then became my favorite game yeah because i never really understood strategy yeah yeah and that game's particularly fun because of all the multi balls and how you have to basically stack up the different stories like fellowship of the ring two towers return of the king and then you have to destroy the ring through the center it's a great game to learn strategy and skills in pinball yeah it's like very chronological and you know just easy you can see everything right there so i would say that was my second phase Now I'm entering my third phase where I feel like I've picked up and learned pretty much all or most of the basic skills that you can. And now I'm learning like more advanced skills. And the games are also more advanced now. So now it's like, oh, we got LCD screens and stuff. So it's way more advanced now. But anyways, like I am at stage three where I'm learning actual techniques and stacking, you know, bonuses and stuff. And that's kind of where I'm now. So that's my journey. I think that era of games, like the pre-LCD kind of end of the DMD era, code started to get a little more complicated, but you could still follow it. Those are good medium skill level games. Yeah. So you, obviously we've told the story, you brought the hook to work. Right. I had never really played pinball in any serious capacity because it's impossible and expensive to learn. Yep. And so you brought that hook to work. I started playing it because I was bored and it's like free. Yep. Fortunately, you didn't make me pay. Yep. I would say I put in a solid 20 hours of games. I kind of kept track of it because I was just curious. Like, how long is it going to take me to feel like I can do anything? Like you can do something, yeah. You have some control. Because prior to that, my feeling on pinball was it's random. It's random, yeah. Like you're just hitting buttons, flipping. Oh, it went down the middle. Bad luck. Right. So I was kind of keeping track of it because I sort of had like a schedule like after work every day. I was like putting in this time. Oh, yeah. And you would go home. So you kind of – Yeah, I kind of knew. So it was roughly about 20 hours of just playing hook until I was like, okay, I'm starting to feel like I can kind of aim the ball. 20 hours. Yeah. That's a long time. I think it was probably – yeah, it was about 20 hours until I felt like – I wasn't just completely frustrated. Right, right. And here's the other thing that I learned from that game. Ramps are fun. Ramps are fun, yeah. And so I think that game, even though it's maybe not everybody's favorite game, not the highest rated game, you can probably get one for fairly cheap. It still has the basic elements that I think grabbed you, or at least grabbed me. It wasn't a theme that I particularly cared about, but that freaking left ramp. It's the wind coaster ramp. The wind coaster, it goes up, it loops around, and it comes back. And it's got lights on it. If you keep hitting it repeatedly, you get like... Right, the points. You can get higher and higher scores, and you get like millions. Just that basic element was like, I got to figure out how to keep hitting that ramp over and over again because it's really satisfying. And it's tricky enough that you can't just do it right away. It's kind of on the far left. It's tough. Just that one thing alone was really all I cared about. just hitting that ramp just hitting that ramp and it's like i didn't even know there was another ramp on the right side for probably a hundred games or something because it's kind of like hidden yeah you can't really see the ramp yeah it's just like oh when i hit it over there it comes back over here but yeah there's another ramp there right right but i wasn't even concerned about that one right because the left ramp was just so enticing right so then the other thing about that game it's kind of easy to get multiball yeah fairly easy yeah you can just hit it into that back little hole yep on the left yep and you hit that a few times and you've got a multiball is it a two ball to start with uh or is it a three no it's a three but yeah it's got that tricky which by the way the skill shot right remember it incorporates you locking the ball in the slot one two or three right so that's what determines when you start multiball right right right um it's always three the difference being if you lock the last two balls into the skill shot right plunger area you get banger ring which is just like a higher jackpot right right right if you miss it you still get multiball with the lower jackpot right right right right okay so that's another element that that game has that is for a newbie the skill shot the skill shot slash multiball yeah those two elements like most games have kind of boring lame skill shots yeah that game has a fun skill shot you're like actually aiming the ball it's for like three different positions yeah and you're rewarded for like yeah getting it just right and it's doable you can actually do it it's funny because like as people that like us like you are now we kind of take skill shots a little bit for granted yeah and think about it from like a new player perspective it's like a very easy tangible right you look at it you get it right it's like you don't have to figure it out it's just oh look little thing says hole number two and there's a two right here it's just put the ball in the hole right and that being my first game it was like kind of a rude awakening that most games have comparatively kind of lame skill shots funny it's funny and it is one of those basic things where it's just like why don't more games just have fun engaging skill shots because it's the first thing you touch when you walk up to that game and if it's exciting then you're gonna grab people it's like a first impression yeah it's a first impression you know very few games have those types of skill such like arabian nights arabian nights is like carbon copy basically very similar kind of thing which came later and um i think pinbot you know there's a few games that have sort of cool skill shots like that but most of them man it's just like Pull it back, flip the lights over the rollovers, and it's so easy and unengaging. Obviously, modern games have gotten more interesting, but I would argue that that hook skill shot is still more fun than 90% of modern game skill shots. It feels so good. Yeah, it's really fun. That was another big takeaway for me. a thing that professor hook taught me is yeah skill shots can be really fun yeah and i'm kind of bummed when they're not another thing that professor hook taught me was close-up shots are dangerous danger do not shoot like the skull the skull yeah that middle skull shot it's not really worth much in that game so it's not really worth going for right it taught me very quickly don't even go for that just avoid it completely if it's a dangerous shot and you can't figure out how to hit it just don't go for it my games got way better after i just stopped trying to go for that that's funny interesting and the other thing that i learned was far right and far left shots are very hard to hit yeah like the far right scoop on that scoop man my assessment of it having played for about 20 hours at that point was that it was impossible you just can't hit it yeah yeah it's and in reality you can't hit that's my favorite shot on that game by the way yeah you can hit it i just probably hit it one out of like 500 times because i wasn't good yeah you know that was another takeaway i had was like okay those are the hard ones yeah that's that's so funny you know what's funny is like you know now for me the ramp was the favorite shot now it's that scoop that you're talking about on the far right dude every time i hit that i i purposely go for that scoop as much as i can now yeah i love it it feels so good and it has this like like when the ball lands when the ball goes into the scoop it's like a good scoop should always have the little scoop sound like a clunk yeah yeah yeah so you can actually hit that shot now yeah yeah it's fun well you have to for that like super banger or whatever one other thing that that game taught me was that I am impatient. Like, every time you're in between balls, it has this long delay. It's like a glitch, I think, even. It doesn't feel right, yeah. It takes forever to change over from, like, ball one to ball two. It's just like, and just keeps playing this music. It's so annoying. That's funny. It almost killed that game for me in those moments. That's so funny because I just want to go again. You just want to hit the next ball. I get it. forced to listen to this music i realized like i'm really impatient with pinball and games where you can't skip yeah the demd sequences or the lcd sequences that is just torture that's like please that's hilarious don't make me sit through this crap like it's fine the first couple times but if you own a game if you're playing a game a lot how much of your life are you losing just sitting through the same thing it's true you know it never bothered me until i was actively trying to do something i know exactly what you mean but yeah i mean there's plenty of games that have stuff like that just like momentum stoppers and now for a word from our sponsor I can bounce on the moon Obstacles and all I going DZ at Discovery Zone DZ! Where kids want to be. Hey kids, come to a Discovery Zone fun center. With every paid admission, you'll get a free kids video rental from Blockbuster Video. And now, back to the show. I think the big takeaway from that game in hindsight is that you don't need Attack from Mars or Medieval Madness or one of the top 10, top 100, whatever on Pinside Games to get into pinball. You just need a game on free play. On free play. And I really do think that a kind of fan layout is really good for beginners. That game doesn't have a strictly fan layout, but most of the shots are just kind of left to right. It's two flippers, and they're all spaced fairly similarly. And I think it just teaches you, like, okay, if it's all the way on this side, you use the very tip of the flipper. And if it's in the middle, you use the middle of the flipper. And you just get to dial in the timing of that. I think for that reason, like, 80s and newer games are probably better to learn on flipper skills. Right. Because also the flippers are more responsive. Older games tend to have more sort of open and random and floaty. And those 80s and 90s games, you can really learn every millimeter of that flipper. And that's super crucial for just basic skills. Like where on the flipper do you hit it? I agree. And I think that learning on a more modern game translates better into an older game. Right. Maybe even, unfortunately, you might feel like That Nolan game is a little slower They do tend to feel slower But I will challenge anyone that argues To sit with that game If that was the only game you had for like a month You would love it Honestly, it's happened to me We talk a lot about games and stuff We hate on games a lot But the reality is any pinball machine That works well enough to play That actually works the way it's generally supposed to Spend enough time on it And you're going to have fun yeah not everybody would have done what i did and just sit there frustrated for basically 20 hours not straight but over the course of like a month or whatever yeah and just keep trying right what's the reward i don't know but for me like that game gave me the rewards yeah that made it worth it for me multiball multiball fun skill shot yep not too easy but not too hard honestly dude that game's tough that's a tough game man it is it is tough and it's hard to get a good score partly because the scoring just kind of the score is weird um but it's not forgiving at all you know what i mean like it's it's it's not and there's like virtually negative ball save yeah yeah i mean the outlanes can be a little hungry yeah yeah it's a hard game i mean it's funny because maybe that game also set you up to be a better player like it's kind of hard to have fun i would say i would argue as a beginner yeah like i wouldn't recommend that game at all as a beginner yeah i wouldn't say this is the best game for a beginner it did work for me but having it at my office it was very convenient to play and free and all that stuff but there's certainly easier more beginner friendly games but i think having those basic elements like a fun ramp just a few fun rewarding shots cool music like cool music cool you know some kind of engaging theme or something like and a multiball right as your first game trying to get into pinball the the banger ring call out when you finally get it right i remember for me that was a big thing it's like it's amazing man yeah it's exciting the audio call is exciting yeah it has enough of all of the good elements for pretty cheap yeah 2500 bucks on average maybe even lower yeah you're gonna have fun with it especially a beginner, if I were to get that game now, I would be bored with it dramatically faster than when I was playing it as my first game. But yeah, anyway, if you're trying to get into pinball, don't overthink it. Don't overthink it. Don't overspend. Don't even spend that much money. Exactly. Yeah. I would agree. And I think that for me, man, that was the perfect first game. You know, affordable, helped me refine my skills and chops without even knowing it at the time. I had no idea. I didn't know anything about the game. It was literally the only game within my price range that's that's why that's why i bought it and i happen to like hook you know from robin williams who isn't on the artwork at all yeah like julia roberts likeness is there like um dustin hoffman's likeness is there definitely dustin hoffman was licensed yeah i mean they're all there except for um except for robin williams yeah i'm not sure julia roberts oh is really there oh she's she's there she's basically there it's close enough close enough yeah but like robin williams man not even close yeah no no not even close but uh yeah i agree with you man i think that's a good take on professor hook yeah i learned a lot from professor hook i'm grateful to professor hook seems like he taught you a lot yeah that was my first pinball 101 class and i got a lot out of it i would say for me professor hook was probably my middle school teacher um and what i learned it's a lot shorter yeah i learned that game fits in a ford escape which which is slightly smaller than like a crv or something it's like a yeah somewhere in between right like a like an early 2000s ford escape yeah yeah like literally dude by like half an inch like i'm not even exaggerating it totally fit um i learned honestly that was the first time i'd ever actually worked on anything like on a game like i've like flipped it up yeah and i i swapped the rubbers on the flippers and i actually swapped the whole flipper mech oh and it felt great because i was having an issue with the flipper not being strong enough to hit that wind coaster ramp you know you gotta hit that ramp you gotta do it and you know i took my little booty on mine and i started doing the the whole thing i did the thing man like yeah hook pinball flipper replacement and then i found marco i found pinball life that was my journey so you bought that game blindly like no well hopefully this never breaks went to the dude's house in south carolina like four hour drive played it a little bit it was awesome i love it he had like most of the led like my dream to have a pinball machine we'll figure out the main is later yeah within like maybe i would say like two weeks that flipper started getting a little wonky you know that's pretty much part of the course of the news game i learned how to swap a whole flipper assembly which is not too bad super crucial skill if you're gonna own pinball machines yep at the time also like a refresher in soldering because i hadn't soldered in a long time and i don't know man i just went for it you know watch the videos and like didn't seem that hard and i did it it was great you took the plunge and you went in and you made it happen yeah and thanks to you doing that that got me into pinball too i'm so glad dude i think i had a thought when i brought it in there maybe like the first day or like it's the second day and we set it up i was like huh i wonder if matt will ever buy a game because of this i hope he does and then like fast forward man you bought like what like three or four games you've been subtly manipulating me this entire time no no i just wanted like one more game just like and i was even gonna offer if you were really into it like we could buy one together yeah and he just went all in dude yeah he went ahead and just bought a bunch we should address this we have to start doing like the podcasty stuff that we hate oh god man uh i know what you're saying we gotta do it a little bit wait are you doing it right now yes this is what you're doing this is what i'm doing god you got me dude we're doing it this is this is happening this is happening uh well i guess if you've made it this far it's probably worth smash that like button. God, we don't do this for the fame. I think that's part of the problem that I have. It's like, do it or don't. You know what I mean? Like, if you want to stick around, do it. If you don't, don't. But like, I guess it's probably helpful to subscribe because then you will be notified when we have new stuff. Yeah, but it's all about the algorithm. So the algorithms do stuff, yeah. Yeah, really like the best thing anybody could do is just tell a friend to listen to the podcast. But we want to keep doing more stuff and we want to like expand, maybe sell some T-shirts. Yeah. Do stuff like that that will help fund trips, editing tools and software and just stuff that helps us continue to be able to make the show. Yeah. Without equipment. Totally. Financial strain on ourselves. Totally. Because, yeah, I mean, we are doing this for fun, but it would be even more fun to do it better and have more stuff to share. Do it. Do the thing. Find our YouTube channel, too. Hit the bell icon. Do the subscribe thing. Do all the stuff. You know what to do. Sorry to ask. So this is kind of like when I was a kid and I would always be afraid to ask my mom for stuff. Yeah. To some degree, I would exploit my mom's kindness. because I knew she would say yeah. And I would ask her anyways. And she would say yeah. So I'm asking you now to smash that subscribe. Smash that subscribe. God, I hate myself for saying that. Well, we can do it like NPR where we just have like one episode. Dude, we should do a full episode where it's like a funding, like a fun drive. Fun drive. Every five minutes we just interrupt, call 887-117. We get a free trip to Paris for two. We're standing by on the phone lines. We can get some celebrity pinballers to answer the phone. Get a free dinner with Ian Jacoby of Nudge Magazine. Hello? Hey, this is Don from Bash Pinball. How's it going? It's going pretty good. Is this really you? You've won the dinner for two with Ian Jacoby of Nudge Magazine. Oh, really? Are you intentionally saying his name wrong or are you forgetting his name? no no but that could be you yeah if you like and subscribe somehow to our channel leave this territory now Return to your home. Evacuate all personnel. _(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v1)_ --- *Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 3ebfadd8-b983-4a1b-a74a-575bfb3beb55*