# DPP #15 "The GnR Topper came and went! Location reviews and meet up info! Will we see anything from JJP soon?"

**Source:** Don's Pinball Podcast (regular feed)  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2023-02-12  
**Duration:** 17m 49s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/donspinballpodcast/episodes/DPP-15-The-GnR-Topper-came-and-went--Location-reviews-and-meet-up-info--Will-we-see-anything-from-JJP-soon-e1uqpmd

---

## Analysis

Don reports on the cease-and-desist takedown of a custom Guns N' Roses Jersey Jack topper, shares arcade location reviews from West Virginia and Pennsylvania, and provides a manufacturer roundup discussing Stern's production pace, Jersey Jack's silence on JJP #8, American Pinball's licensing strategy, and Spooky's market positioning. He critiques industry marketing practices around FOMO and suggests licensed themes might improve sales for smaller manufacturers.

### Key Claims

- [MEDIUM] Stern can make six months worth of games in a week and has completed Bond 60th production with Godzilla Premium runs queued up. — _Don speculating on Stern's manufacturing efficiency while discussing production schedule._
- [MEDIUM] Elvira House of Horrors Premium run is delayed due to higher build costs making it less profitable than other games for Stern. — _Don citing rumored reasons for Elvira delay: 'the build of materials, the cost to build Elvira is higher than some other games.'_
- [MEDIUM] Jersey Jack has not issued a last call for Elvira like they did for Led Zeppelin, suggesting more runs may come. — _Don noting JJP hasn't issued formal last call for Elvira despite extended waiting lists._
- [HIGH] Secondary market for pinball machines has cooled; most recent releases maintain MSRP-adjusted value or trade lower except Pirates of the Caribbean and Stranger Things. — _Don's personal market observation: 'any game that I really want that came out in the last five years, I can find them.'_
- [MEDIUM] Spooky's Scooby-Doo announcement captured market demand that would have gone to Jersey Jack or other manufacturers. — _Don discussing FOMO shift and his own purchasing decision to commit to Scooby-Doo instead of waiting for JJP announcement._
- [HIGH] A custom GnR topper from pinballshop.com received cease-and-desist from Jersey Jack, Guns N' Roses, or the licensing holder. — _Don reporting on Leor's topper takedown: 'there may have been a little cease and desist action sent his way from either Jersey Jack or Guns N' Roses.'_
- [HIGH] Starport Arcade in Morgantown, WV has roughly 20 pinball machines on the lower level, including Bond LE, Elvira LE, and Stranger Things LE. — _Don's direct experience at the venue: 'There was a Bond limited edition on site. I played the limited edition of Elvira House of Horrors.'_

### Notable Quotes

> "The drops never stop when it comes to pinball."
> — **Don**, Opening
> _Characterizes Don's approach to constant pinball content generation._

> "This company can make six months worth of games in a week somehow. This machine has to be just dripping with oil."
> — **Don**, Stern section
> _Hyperbolic observation on Stern's manufacturing efficiency._

> "There's been people that have been on a list for a year or more waiting for another run of Elvira's House of Horrors."
> — **Don**, Elvira discussion
> _Highlights demand for Stern remake despite production delays._

> "I've backed out of the rush in and get everything as soon as it's announced phase."
> — **Don**, Market analysis section
> _Key sentiment shift showing changing purchasing behavior due to cooled secondary market._

> "Scooby-Doo is hitting all the points for me personally, for the family. They're totally jazzed about it. So this seems like a solid purchase."
> — **Don**, Spooky marketing section
> _Demonstrates successful marketing execution by Spooky despite lower price point._

> "If you remove the Rush theming and the call-outs and the band's name from everything, left everything else exactly the same, that would be Time Machine the game, right? So it would have no soul."
> — **Don**, American Pinball critique
> _Core argument for why licensed themes matter; suggests IP is crucial to emotional engagement._

> "Quickly, my Smurfs, hit the drop target so we can rescue Johan. Oh, no. Now Gargamel's taking Smurfette and he's doing terrible things to her."
> — **Don**, American Pinball licensing speculation
> _Satirical but illustrative example of how licensing creates thematic depth and rule engagement._

> "Pittsburgh, if you don't know, it's a pin town. It's a big pinball town. Chicago, I know, is known as being like the epicenter. But Pittsburgh is another big pinball town."
> — **Don**, Location reviews
> _Establishes Pittsburgh as secondary major pinball hub; supports Stern Army tournament infrastructure._

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Leor / pinballshop.com | person | Custom topper artist who created Guns N' Roses Jersey Jack topper; received cease-and-desist and removed inventory. |
| Guns N' Roses | company | IP licensor potentially involved in cease-and-desist action against custom GnR topper. |
| Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Potential cease-and-desist issuer; rumored silent on JJP #8 announcement; awaiting news on next title. |
| Stern Pinball | company | Completing Bond 60th production; queuing Godzilla Premium and Elvira House of Horrors Premium runs. |
| Spooky Pinball | company | Recently announced Scooby-Doo; capturing market demand with aggressive marketing and lower price point. |
| American Pinball | company | Rumored next game is space battle title designed by Dennis Nordman; criticized for relying on unlicensed themes. |
| Starport Arcade | organization | Two-level arcade in Morgantown, WV owned/operated by same person as Helicon Brewing; curates premium LE games. |
| Helicon Brewing | organization | Pinball arcade/bar in Oakdale, Pennsylvania with 30+ games; Don planning meetup Sunday at 2 PM. |
| Dennis Nordman | person | Legendary pinball designer (Elvira); rumored to be designing next American Pinball title (space battle game). |
| Texas Pinball Festival | event | Major pinball event scheduled for next month; Don expects avalanche of new game announcements. |
| Mad Pinball | company | Stern distributor who supplied Don's Godzilla Premium. |
| Chicago Gaming Company | company | Remakes classic licensed games; unclear licensing status for future titles. |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Cease-and-desist / IP enforcement, Stern production and supply chain, Jersey Jack silence and marketing strategy, Secondary market cooling and FOMO decline, American Pinball licensing strategy and sales challenges
- **Secondary:** Spooky market positioning and competitive dynamics, Arcade location reviews and community hubs, Pinball industry marketing practices and FOMO tactics

### Sentiment

**Mixed** (0.55) — Don is enthusiastic about arcade visits and Spooky's execution but critical of industry marketing practices, Jersey Jack's opacity, and American Pinball's licensing conservatism. Secondary market cooling is presented matter-of-factly rather than negatively. Overall tone is engaged and analytical rather than negative.

### Signals

- **[community_signal]** Pittsburgh confirmed as secondary major pinball hub with multiple curated arcade locations and strong tournament/operator presence. (confidence: high) — Don's tour of Starport Arcade and Helicon Brewing; curation of LE versions and premium machine selection supports Pittsburgh as pin town.
- **[competitive_signal]** Spooky Pinball captured market demand with Scooby-Doo announcement; lower price point and family appeal outperformed expected FOMO-driven launch. (confidence: high) — Don committed to Scooby purchase ('got me') before considering JJP announcement; attributes success to non-premium pricing and theme appeal.
- **[design_philosophy]** American Pinball games lack thematic soul due to reliance on unlicensed/public domain IP; even well-shot rule sets fail to engage players emotionally. (confidence: medium) — Don's Rush vs. Time Machine comparison: identical mechanics but licensed theme provides emotional connection absent in Houdini/Valhalla.
- **[event_signal]** Texas Pinball Festival (next month) expected to trigger major game announcements and industry news avalanche. (confidence: medium) — Don: 'we're on the precipice of just a huge avalanche of new news and machines leading up into Texas Pinball Festival.'
- **[licensing_signal]** Custom topper creator received cease-and-desist from IP holder (Jersey Jack, Guns N' Roses, or slash's headband IP holder); suggests active IP enforcement. (confidence: high) — Don reports Leor's pinballshop.com takedown and inventory removal confirmed by Leor on Pinside.
- **[market_signal]** Secondary market for recent pinball releases has cooled significantly; FOMO pricing dissipated with most games trading at or below MSRP-adjusted value. (confidence: high) — Don's observation: 'any game that I really want that came out in the last five years, I can find them' at stable secondary market prices.
- **[product_strategy]** Elvira House of Horrors Premium run delayed due to higher manufacturing costs reducing profit margins vs. other Stern titles. (confidence: medium) — Don citing rumored production constraint: higher build materials cost makes Elvira less profitable to manufacture than competitor games.
- **[product_concern]** Stern Elvira House of Horrors LE limited to 500 units vs. 7,000+ modern LE production runs; older LE variants now more collectible. (confidence: medium) — Don noting Starport's Stranger Things LE scarcity: 'from a time when Stern wasn't making 7,000 limited edition games' enhances collectibility.
- **[rumor_hype]** Jersey Jack JJP #8 rumored as Godfather, Avatar Way of Water, or intentional misdirection; no official confirmation. (confidence: low) — Don citing multiple competing rumors with acknowledgment that Godfather may be cover story intentionally leaked to confuse speculation.
- **[sentiment_shift]** Consumer behavior shift away from day-one FOMO purchasing toward deliberate wait-and-see strategy for most manufacturers except proven producers. (confidence: high) — Don's personal pivot: 'I've backed out of the rush in and get everything as soon as it's announced phase' and willingness to pass on JJP if Spooky already captured his budget.
- **[business_signal]** Jersey Jack employing ambush marketing with zero advance information on JJP #8, contrasting with video game industry's pre-order hype model. (confidence: medium) — Don critiques JJP's silence and lack of price/timeline disclosure as potentially disadvantageous vs. transparent competitor announcements.

---

## Transcript

 What am I dropping in here on Saturday for another episode of Don's Pinball Podcast? You bet your hiney I am. Get in your chair, get in your car, get across town, grab a pizza, grab a slice. What can I say? Sit down. I got some more news nuggets to drop. The drops never stop when it comes to pinball. I'm going to talk about some developments that have happened already this week and an event that's happening. Well, look at the calendar. tomorrow in Pittsburgh? I'll get to all that and more after the drop. Saturday is hitting hard. I thought I'd do one more episode while I'm still out of town. Heading home tomorrow, going to be flying into Chicago and then that long frozen drive up into Wisconsin. But before that, I'm going to be heading over into Oakdale, Pennsylvania to Helicon Brewing. Be there at 2 o'clock. Maybe somebody else will show up. There'll be a sticker for you and a selfie if you want it. Worth its weight in gold, that is. So let's cover some of the news and developments that have been going on. So in my last episode, I reviewed this amazing looking topper that came from our boy, Leor, with the art of pinballshop.com, where if you go to it now, you're not going to see a whole lot. It turns out all that was taken down, the rumors that are circulating, and I think this has been a little bit confirmed on Pinside by Leor himself, is there may have been a little cease and desist action sent his way from either Jersey Jack or Guns N' Roses or that headband around Slash top hat. He's taken that down. There was an email saying that anybody that had already purchased has been refunded for the $2,350 Jersey Jack Guns N' Roses topper. So we'll see what develops out of this. It looked like a nice resin sculpt from him. It was outside of the price range to make it an instant buy for me, for sure, but seemed to be well made. I did like the lights, but everybody has their opinions on that. As it is, that has gone back in the pot of boiling water to the back of the stove. We'll see what percolates and comes up out of him next. So, a fun little saga to follow going into the weekend. Speaking of what I've been up to, I had a chance to go over to Starport Arcade in Morgantown, West Virginia. Actually, these games, the pinball games that are there, they believe they're owned and operated by the same guy that does Helicon Brewing. So that makes sense. I was there before, and I saw one of their Toy Story 4s had a card from Helicon. So mystery solved, gang. While there, this is a two-level arcade in a small little bar on Walnut Street in Morgantown, West Virginia, where West Virginia University is, a big college town there around the northern part of the state, just south of the Pennsylvania border. so I popped over there and I got to put some time on Elvira House of Horrors once again and you know coming back to that game now after I've been kind of obsessed with Rush and Godzilla and Guns and Roses and Halloween and everything it's nice to come back to a game that's just really nice fan layout with a huge object right in the back of the play field that Victorian mansion that's back there and it's got multiple entrances in it the the stairs lift up the little purgle on the top spins around with the different modes. And I love, can we get more games with jumping gargoyles? Aren't those things great? You hit the little gargoyles at the front of the stairs, and they just kind of jump up in the air and scream. God, I love that. I could play that game for quite a while. Something great about Starport is that this guy curates the best versions of the games that are there. There was a Bond limited edition on site. I played the limited edition of Elvira House of Horrors Right next to that was a limited edition Stranger Things. And I've played the premium, so I've seen what they've done with the projector for that game. But being able to actually play the LE, now that was fun. And it's from a time when Stern wasn't making 7,000 limited edition games. Like there was only 500 or so. So Stranger Things has now entered that wish list that I keep in the back of my mind of games I would not mind owning at some point. You know, should the lottery deem it necessary to shower me with cash, right? Make it rain. so fun game I like that Brian Eddy designed that should be designing Venom I hope he keeps the theme more Stranger Things and a little less Mandalorian I love that dark and the thing with Starport is the pinball machines are all down in the second level like in the dungeon it great it dark down there low light levels and you got about 20 machines and they all relatively new There even a whitewater back in there So I had a great time there. Thank you guys for having such a great pinball collection. $1 plays, three games for $2. I love that deal. And just revisiting Elvira and Stranger Things is where I spent my time. I wanted to get some more time on the Bond LE, but there was a gentleman that was kind of glued to it, and I noticed that the game was on free play. So he must obviously be some sort of insider, maybe a tournament player that's there practicing. So I work nearby. I come here occasionally, so I'm sure I'll be able to hit it again at some point. But shout out to Starport Arcade, 228 Walnut Street, Morgantown, West Virginia. Park on the street. Bring some quarters because the machines out there still take quarters for 15 minutes of parking for 25 cents. I don't know if they validate it all, but it's a college town, so you'll get ticketed and may get booted depending on how long you stay there. I looked around. I couldn't find a sticker wall anywhere. I checked the bathrooms and everything. So I did leave some stickers on some of their tournament flyers that were up on the wall. So if you happen to go in there this weekend, there may still be some left. Go ahead and grab you a sticker off the wall. Tomorrow. Tomorrow is Sunday. I'll be at Helicon, which is at 102 Union Avenue in Oakdale, Pennsylvania. Helicon Brewing. Oh, they've got to have more than 30 games there. And I've been there twice, and I've already seen games rotate in and out. So another great curated collection right in the Pittsburgh area. Pittsburgh, if you don't know, it's a pin town. It's a big pinball town. Chicago, I know, is known as being like the epicenter. But Pittsburgh is another big pinball town, a lot of pinball arcades and museums and such. So I'll be there. I'm planning on being there for Sunday at 2 o'clock for about an hour. I'll bring some stickers with me. If anybody actually shows up, get yourself a sticker. And also play some games for only a dollar. And I hope they still have their Alice Cooper. so I do like playing that so all in all it's been a good pin trip while I've been out here I do have a request to put out there if anybody has a pinball powder coater that they have used in the past someone who provides easy shipping, easy to work with relatively quick turnaround, let me know go on to the Don's Pinball Podcast page at Facebook and let me know, drop me a line go on to the Discord, links in Facebook or send me an email donspinballpodcastgmail.com I'm looking for some powder coating jobs. I got some powder coating work, some metals. I need to be electromagnified and powder coated. So hit me up if you know anybody. I thought I would take another moment during the show to just kind of, once again, just go around the circle to all the companies and see what we're doing, what's going on. I mean, I feel like we're on the precipice of just a huge avalanche of new news and machines leading up into Texas Pinball Festival coming up next month. On the line, let's start with Stern. they just finished a run of Bond 60th. This company can make six months worth of games in a week somehow. This machine has to be just dripping with oil. If you work at Stern, are your socks wet because of all the oil dripping because of how well lubricated your operation is? Sounds like they've finished with the Bond 60th, and there's already photos of Godzilla premiums on the line. Did you hear that? I didn't know that there was another run of those coming up. This must have got scheduled, or I just overlooked it. But I know there's got to be tons of people that are still on the waiting list for Godzilla Premium, and you should be. That game's amazing. I've got one. I love it. Shout out to Mad Pinball. Thanks for hooking it up for me. So what else we have coming up? After the run of the Godzilla Premiums, the rumored on-again, off-again Elvira House of Horrors Premium is going to be hitting the line. Man, this is a game. You think people have been waiting for Godzilla. There's been people that have been on a list for a year or more waiting for another run of Elvira's House of Horrors. and the rumored delay, the thing that was holding it up, is apparently the build of materials, the cost to build Elvira is higher than some other games. So if they're selling them for the same price with those price margins, you'd make more money running other games rather than trying to deal with the big backlog of Elvira. But it's happening finally. Will it happen again? That's the big question. Now, normally Stern, when they decide to reach the end of a production cycle for one of their games, They're not going to be making it anymore. They give out a last call to distributors. Like they did that just recently with Led Zeppelin. You know, you can tell that the, the builds of Led Zeppelin and the sales were slowing down So they like okay we going to make this one more time And then we not going to be making more playfields and other parts in our department We going to switch to other games So there was a last call But what they haven't done is a last call for Elvira. And so are they just going to silently kind of let it sit in the back there again? Will they do one more run? Who knows? But I know they probably didn't even feel all of the requests they've had for Elvira. So Godzilla Premium right now looks like at the end of the month, going into March, will be Elvira's on the line and then hopefully out to people, which is great. It's a great game. I think it needs to be in more places. So going over to Jersey Jack, the news out of Jersey Jack is, yeah, that's right, absolutely nothing. We haven't heard anything about this next game, JJP number eight. There's rumors. The biggest rumor is Godfather, which is a strange idea for a game. The other rumor is that Godfather is not the rumor, and in fact, just a cover story, an intentional leak set to misguide people. I've heard Avatar Way of Water. The movie just came out, so I mean, that can make sense. But we have heard nothing. We might hear something next week or so. We might not hear anything for six months. I think that's less likely. I think next week, who knows at this point, they could drop something. One thing I wanted to comment though on is the marketing decisions behind operating this way. So obviously, these pinball companies keep it close to the vest. In most instances that I have seen, they won't actually release the title and the details of the game until that game is ready to go on sale. Like, we're releasing details at 10 a.m., and the game is going on sale at noon. And so I think this is like ambush marketing is probably the angle they're trying to go for. They want to keep the details close to their chest, And then the idea being we're going to let people know we have a game and then they need to buy it right away. We don't want people to kind of think and mull it over. You know, so I know that seemed to play well over the last few years with the whole FOMO deal where games would sell out. And if you didn't have a chance to buy one when it went on sale, you know, you were out of luck. You had to pay a scalper, you know, a few thousand dollars over the MSRP to get that game. That seems to have changed now. Looking at the landscape, any game that I really want that came out in the last five years, I can find them. And with a couple of standout exceptions, Jersey Jacks, Pirates of the Caribbean, or Stranger Things, they've all held around the same value, relatively speaking, even adjusted for inflation, or even slightly lower for a used game that has low plays and was well taken care of. So I've backed out of the rush in and get everything as soon as it's announced phase. You know, I've got a couple of wants out there that I would like to go on. And at this point, I think safe bets are still with Stern as far as buying, you know, whatever's released and playing it and then being able to get some good resale value out of it. Some of the other ones, I'm just not sure which way they're going to go. So I figured, you know, if I was sitting there and I had reached the point where I had money in my pinball budget to go ahead and purchase the next game, whatever company releases the next thing out is probably going to get my money. So if you're a Jersey Jack or an American pinball or another company with a game coming out, someone beat you to the punch like Spooky just did with Scooby-Doo, I think a lot of the people that had money that were ready to go into the market, Scooby just kind of got them. I mean, they got me. That worked. So now if Jersey Jack were to release their title tomorrow, I'd pass on it for now, maybe wait, see how it sells, go play it on location, take my time going in on it because I'm already indebted to Spooky for their next title. Now, I'm not sorry about that. I mean, Scooby-Doo is hitting all the points for me personally, for the family. They're totally jazzed about it. So this seems like a solid purchase. It wasn't $15,000, so it was a much easier decision to make. But, you know, is the reason because if they would say, hey, next month we have a game coming out. Here's the price. We're looking at the game. Here's when we're expecting to build it. Here's when you could expect to get it. But we won't release the title yet. Is marketing like that somehow going to put a company at a disadvantage? Because if you knew, if you were a consumer with money and you knew that there was a game coming out from Jersey Jack next month, you didn't know what it was, but you've got the price for it, and then, say, Stern or American Pinball Company comes out and says they have their game, they release the cost you'd expect to pay for it, maybe rumored a little features but didn't release the theme, I think that would help you kind of navigate and say okay I think I more leaning towards this game and then when it comes down it full reveal then it seems a little more fair Obviously you know I sure these people employ whole marketing teams and there a reason behind what they doing But just from, you know, from my perspective, it's just a little confusing, you know, because I'm not sure, you know, what's actually going on. And wouldn't you want to try to hype up your game and kind of whip people into a fervor to be able to then, as soon as it comes out, boom, get it? That's what video games do when, you know, they do pre-sales. I mean, video games are digital now, for cripes sake. You don't have to go stand in line out in front of Best Buy or GameStop at a game launch anymore, but they still have pre-orders, and they build up that fervor going into it. Just my thoughts. Just the thoughts coming from this guy. What's American Pinball doing, speaking of them? They got a game supposedly coming out, Dennis Nordman designed, right? Same guy that did Elvira for Cripes. That's the third time I said Cripes. You know, for crying out loud there. Rumored is this space battle game. We're all curious to see it. But looking back at the pedigree, I haven't really jumped on any American pinball games. And the reason is they tend to go for these open source, unlicensed themes, you know, themes that belong in the public domain like Houdini, Valhalla, the Wrath of Olympus. Well, hey, sorry about that, everybody. The building I'm recording in right now just had a fire drill, so that alarm was going off. Just one of the joys and pleasures of filming on the road, I guess. Back to the point I was trying to get with American Pinball and kind of how I could see them maybe improve sales-wise or at least playership-wise. It's kind of like this. Let's take Rush. Game of the year, right? Rush Pinball. So if you remove the Rush theming and the call-outs and the band's name from everything, left everything else exactly the same, that would be Time Machine the game, right? So it would still shoot the same. There'd be the same wire form ramp and fuck and the magnet time machine funness there. But it would have no soul, no emotional connection. And kind of when I look at Houdini, I mean, it's playable. It's passable. But I have no connection to that game, Rick and Morty, which shoots like a cinder block. I love that freaking game. And it's the theme and the call outs that make the difference. So what I would like AP to do, just for my self-serving reasons, is go ahead and just grab onto a theme. Now, obviously, the reason they don't go with these licenses is because then you have to pay a licensing percentage, right? So the games that they're making, every Oktoberfest sold, I mean, they probably have a larger share of the profits. But I think overall, if you look at the number of Oktoberfests sold versus if they would just go ahead and grab Goonies or something, you know make a passable uh a cave themed pirate game throw the goonies theme on there and put in some call outs and some movie clips you'd probably sell like three times as many wouldn't you i mean you would be making less per game because you'd have that licensing fee but wouldn't that license carry you much further over the finish line overall um shoot make uh make i don't know smurfs the curse of gargamel or something i mean that can't be an expensive theme to get you know, I'm going to get to these Smurfs, Azrael. We're going to make a stew. Papa Smurf, Gargamel got Johan. Quickly, my Smurfs, hit the drop target so we can rescue Johan. Oh, no. Now Gargamel's taking Smurfette and he's doing terrible things to her. Quickly, my Smurfs, hit the left orbit. Hurry up so we can rescue Smurfette. I mean, I'm just spitballing off the top of my head here, but would you rather play that versus the Legends of Valhalla, which shoots fun and has some cool imaging but there's no soul for me to be drawn into there. I'm sure they have their reasons but that was just some things that I'm thinking about. Other companies, Spooky, we know what they're doing. Raw Thrills, we're waiting to see what they're doing. Chicago Gaming Company, do they still work with the license holder for these games they're remaking? Do they not? That's more of a soap opera going on. I don't know if they have another game to announce. Anybody else that I've missed? Well, if I did miss anybody, you'll hear about it next time on Don's Pit Ball. podcast. Have yourself a good Saturday, everybody. Thanks for tuning in. I can't wait to go play some pins tomorrow, and then I'm going to get on an airplane. It's just going to be nuts. Two things I love. Two great tastes that go great together. Everybody, behave yourself and eat your vegetables, and holler at me, donspinballpodcast.gmail.com or the Facebook page of Don's Pinball Podcast. Throw a follow, throw a like, throw a comment, throw a bye, something.

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

---

*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 427fda9e-c99d-4eb5-a41e-408f0cfd8511*