# SMS Oct 4 Part 2

**Source:** Kaneda Pinball Podcasts YouTube Lives  
**Type:** video  
**Published:** 2025-10-05  
**Duration:** 64m 11s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8YXqf9Kjio

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## Analysis

Kaneda discusses homebrew pinball games (Big Trouble in Little China), criticizes Stern Pinball's recent releases and marketing strategy, expresses enthusiasm for Spooky Pinball's upcoming Beetlejuice machine, and addresses tensions with community members and industry figures. He emphasizes Spooky's competitive positioning against Stern and the importance of market research in game development.

### Key Claims

- [MEDIUM] Beetlejuice pinball will sell out faster than any game seen in a long time and only 999 will be made — _Kaneda predicting Beetlejuice market performance based on Spooky's boutique positioning and limited production model_
- [MEDIUM] One of Kaneda's ideas has been implemented into Spooky's next game, which he believes is Beetlejuice — _Spooky told Kaneda his idea was implemented; he speculates it relates to game activation method_
- [HIGH] Stern charged $20,000 for James Bond 60th LE and lied about exclusive toppers being signed by Keith Elwin — _Kaneda directly criticizes this as deceptive marketing and never apologized_
- [HIGH] Barrels of Fun has unsold inventory of Labyrinth and Dune games, with only 75 Labyrinth units remaining — _David Vaness (Barrels of Fun founder) confirmed to Kaneda during stream that 75 Labyrinths remain to be sold_
- [MEDIUM] Labyrinth initially was offered at 1,200 units, then reduced to 1,000, and has only sold approximately 850 — _Kaneda states this based on prior knowledge of Barrels' production adjustments_
- [HIGH] Big Trouble in Little China homebrew game lacks iconic mechanical features like the Pork Chop Express truck and Shen Quan lightning mech — _Kaneda visually analyzing the playfield layout shown on stream_
- [HIGH] Christopher Franchi is starting work on games for 2027 and 2028 with Spooky Pinball — _Franchi directly stated this; Kaneda expressed intention to buy those games_
- [HIGH] Jersey Jack Pinball has The Matrix license but will probably never release a Matrix game due to actor licensing complexity — _Kaneda explaining why all actors must be individually contracted beyond IP licensing, using Laurence Fishburne as example_

### Notable Quotes

> "Star Wars makes Star Wars look like crap. We don't need another pin to do that for it. Poor Star Wars. Poor Stern Pinball."
> — **Kaneda**, ~10:00
> _Core criticism of Star Wars Pinball quality; dismisses claims that other games are killing it_

> "This is a moment. This is a moment in pinball and I think we've all been waiting for this moment. And I think this is a moment in which passion over profit is going to prevail."
> — **Kaneda**, ~35:00
> _Framing Spooky Pinball as the antithesis to Stern's profit-driven model; positioning Beetlejuice as transformative_

> "Charging $20,000 for James Bond 60th. You don't get to walk that back. You can't walk it back. And it shows you what's in the heart of that company from a marketing standpoint."
> — **Kaneda**, ~50:00
> _Kaneda's most damning accusation of Stern's pricing ethics and corporate values_

> "When a company breaks a man who clearly could be the future of your organization...you know, Jack Danger's like kind of got it all. Like he's got the design skills."
> — **Kaneda**, ~70:00
> _References Jack Danger's departure from Stern and its negative impact on him; critiques Stern's treatment of talent_

> "The biggest mistake that companies make is when they use adjectives and hyperbole to describe their own products in their communication. Don't tell me your product's a hit. I'll tell you if it's a hit."
> — **Kaneda (quoting Joe Brown, Wired editor)**, ~48:00
> _Marketing advice directed at Barrels of Fun's labeling of Labyrinth as a 'hit' without actual sellout_

> "Unfortunately for Stern, nothing they release now feels special. And everything immediately on day one is a mass-produced item that will never be hard to get."
> — **Kaneda**, ~52:00
> _Core business/perception criticism of Stern's loss of scarcity and FOMO strategy_

> "Franchi is going to drive a stake through the people that didn't know how to work with him. And you know, look, I could see it all those years he tried to reconcile and they literally were—they, you know, they always kind of gave him like, 'Yeah, we'll do your podcast, but we're never going to let you back.'"
> — **Kaneda**, ~65:00
> _Kaneda predicting Franchi will become competitive threat to Stern; references historical tension between Franchi and Stern management_

> "Do you hear anybody at Stern saying they're excited for the next three games, they can't wait for you to see them? I mean, point me in the direction where someone at Stern Pinball is saying to us, the community...'We're so excited about our next three titles.'"
> — **Kaneda**, ~68:00
> _Criticism of Stern's lack of enthusiasm/marketing energy compared to Spooky's visible excitement_

> "Beetlejuice is going to sell out in nine minutes."
> — **Kaneda**, ~30:00
> _Hyperbolic but emphatic prediction of Beetlejuice demand vs. Dune/Labyrinth sales issues_

> "The rock is yours. The ball is in your court. You guys are what people want now because you're the only companies that can actually have a volume of game that will forever be in demand if you get it right."
> — **Kaneda (addressing boutique manufacturers)**, ~54:00
> _Articulation of competitive shift from Stern to boutique manufacturers based on scarcity/FOMO strategy_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Kaneda | person | Pinball podcast host, community influencer, content creator; primary speaker in this stream |
| Spooky Pinball | company | Boutique pinball manufacturer; positioned by Kaneda as ascendant competitor to Stern with upcoming Beetlejuice game |
| Stern Pinball | company | Major pinball manufacturer receiving sustained criticism for quality, pricing, marketing, and treatment of talent |
| Christopher Franchi | person | Renowned pinball artist formerly at Stern, now at Spooky; Kaneda predicts he will become competitive threat to Stern |
| Bug | person | Co-owner/creative director of Spooky Pinball; recipient of Kaneda's praise for leadership environment |
| David Vaness | person | Founder of Barrels of Fun manufacturer; appeared on stream; criticized by Kaneda for Labyrinth marketing and theme selection |
| Barrels of Fun | company | Pinball manufacturer with inventory issues on Labyrinth and Dune; receiving critical feedback on market research |
| John Borg | person | Legendary Stern pinball designer; Kaneda notes he doesn't promote his own Star Wars game |
| Jack Danger | person | Pinball designer/personality formerly at Stern; Kaneda references him being negatively affected by Stern's environment |
| Beetlejuice | game | Upcoming Spooky Pinball game that Kaneda predicts will be breakthrough success; believes it will be in his garage |
| Star Wars | game | Recent Stern Pinball release criticized heavily by Kaneda for quality, design, and lack of designer enthusiasm |
| Big Trouble in Little China | game | Homebrew pinball game discussed extensively; praised for theme but criticized for mechanical design limitations |
| Labyrinth | game | Barrels of Fun game with inventory/sales issues; Kaneda notes 75 units remaining unsold at time of discussion |
| Dune | game | Barrels of Fun game criticized for theme appeal and poor market research; only 21 units sold in Australia per discussion |
| The Matrix | game | Licensed IP that Jersey Jack owns but will likely never produce due to actor licensing complexity |
| James Bond 60th | game | Stern Pinball LE priced at $20,000; primary example of Kaneda's criticism of Stern's pricing and deceptive marketing |
| Don | person | Recently hired by Spooky Pinball; moved to Benton, Wisconsin; reportedly bought Charlie Emery's house |
| Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Holds The Matrix pinball license; used as example of complex IP licensing dynamics |
| Evil Dead | game | Spooky Pinball game praised by Kaneda for Franchi's artwork and aesthetic quality |
| Batman SLE | game | Spooky Pinball game that Kaneda considers the most beautiful machine ever made; regrets selling his copy |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Stern Pinball quality and design decline, Spooky Pinball competitive positioning and Beetlejuice hype, Pricing ethics and LE market saturation, Christopher Franchi's role in future competitive dynamics
- **Secondary:** Homebrew game design and mechanical limitations, Barrels of Fun inventory and market research failures, Marketing messaging and hyperbole in pinball industry
- **Mentioned:** IP licensing complexity (The Matrix example)

### Sentiment

**Negative** (-0.72) — Kaneda expresses strong criticism of Stern Pinball across multiple dimensions (quality, pricing, marketing, corporate culture) while simultaneously expressing enthusiasm and optimism about Spooky Pinball and the competitive landscape. He is frustrated with community members who criticize him personally. Mixed emotions about Barrels of Fun (friendly but critical). Overall sentiment is frustrated with status quo but excited about alternatives.

### Signals

- **[business_signal]** Stern Pinball's margin compression and overhead burden affecting investor returns; three-tier pricing model creating unsustainable LE strategy after previous John Wick/Venom failures (confidence: medium) — Stern investors have had a really good run...but I bet they're not making the margins they want right now. Their overhead is so big.
- **[community_signal]** Kaneda addressing confrontational community member (Down South Pinball) who criticizes him for not buying games; conflict rooted in perceived gatekeeping about ownership legitimacy (confidence: medium) — You keep saying that because I don't buy pinball machines, I'm somehow an invalid voice of this hobby...I wish you and your family nothing but health and happiness but let me ask you a favor. Leave.
- **[community_signal]** Kaneda emphasizes Spooky Pinball leadership (Bug, Luke) creating inviting and magnetic environment attracting talent like Franchi and Don; contrasts with Stern's apparent organizational dysfunction (confidence: medium) — I think they have a very family-friendly, just friendly in general environment that is very inviting and magnetic...I think Franchi is in the right place with the right people
- **[design_philosophy]** Big Trouble in Little China homebrew criticized for over-reliance on Lo Pan's chamber aesthetic (90% of representation) with missing iconic elements like Pork Chop Express truck mech, Shen Quan lightning mech, deity expansion mech (confidence: high) — Lo Pan's chamber is like 90% of what's being represented...would have liked to have seen the Pork Chop Express...blow up that guy that expands
- **[licensing_signal]** Jersey Jack Pinball licensed The Matrix IP but actor licensing complexity makes production unlikely; individual actor contracts required beyond Wachowski rights; Laurence Fishburne as example of potential refusal (confidence: high) — Jersey Jack has The Matrix license but the Wachowskis will give you the IP...you've got to go individually contract all of the actors...you're probably never going to see a Matrix game
- **[market_signal]** Barrels of Fun facing significant inventory challenges: 75 Labyrinth units unsold, only 21 Dunes sold in Australia with unclear total sales against 1,000+ production target (confidence: high) — David Vaness confirmed 75 Labyrinths remaining; Wayne disclosed 21 Dune sales in Australia as container; need to sell ~1,000 total
- **[personnel_signal]** Christopher Franchi transitioned from Stern to Spooky Pinball; Kaneda predicts this will drive competitive threat to Stern with Franchi motivated by prior Stern mistreatment (confidence: high) — Franchi is going to drive a stake through the people that didn't know how to work with him...he tried to reconcile and they literally were...they always kind of gave him like 'Yeah, we'll do your podcast, but we're never going to let you back'
- **[market_signal]** Stern's $20,000 James Bond 60th pricing and false exclusivity claims described as corporate deception and middle-finger moment to loyal customers; symbolic of broader pricing ethics concerns (confidence: high) — Charging $20,000 for James Bond 60th. You don't get to walk that back...they lied to everybody...they have yet to apologize
- **[product_concern]** Star Wars Pinball criticized for: mechanical design lacking standout features, poor playfield artwork quality, ineffective AT-AT mech, C3PO callouts issues, screen implementation problems (confidence: high) — mechanically I just don't see much in it...it looks very basic...like John Borg doesn't even want to promote his own game?
- **[rumor_hype]** Kaneda indicates possible rumor about Elliot Eisman's Transformers G1 game from Stern not meeting expectations, but expresses uncertainty about validity (confidence: low) — And then if the rumor is like Elliot Eisman's Transformers G1 is not—I don't know. I just don't think Stern...
- **[sentiment_shift]** Significant enthusiasm shift from Stern Pinball toward Spooky Pinball; Kaneda canceling Star Wars LE pre-order immediately upon seeing Beetlejuice previews, positioning Beetlejuice as his first game in new garage (confidence: high) — I had a Star Wars LE ordered. I canceled it immediately when I saw the game. I think Beetlejuice will be the game that makes its way into my garage.
- **[business_signal]** Boutique manufacturers (Spooky, Barrels, others) identified as having competitive advantage through limited production and perceived passion over profit; Stern perceived as commoditizing games through mass production and FOMO elimination (confidence: high) — The rock is yours...you're the only companies that can actually have a volume of game that will forever be in demand...nothing they release now feels special

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## Transcript

get one. I It's just like I I want I want to get one. I don't I don't know if they'll make another one, but I I would just love to have it because it's different, you know? It's It's not I this is the thing with these the you know, these these homebrew games is all this work goes into it. You know, can they find a way to like make 10 of them or make five of them like they did with the Matrix that time? Um, you know, I don't know. I don't know. We're letting people come back on YouTube because I I had to restart the YouTube because I hit the damn This I need to This cable sucks. I'm going to order one right now. I'm going to order one right now because this cable being busted continues to annoy me. Let me just order it right now. Okay. I should have done this weeks ago by now. Oh my god. Like the fact that you have to like sign in with like five things now is like so annoying. Like oh my god. Now I got to take a picture of this thing to like What happened to the world picture? Then it's going to make me sign in on my phone. All right, place my order. Give me my damn my damn mic. All right, it's coming tomorrow. All right, let's share screen. So, I'm I'm looking at the game. I'm trying to stay away from this cable so we don't have to do this again. Um, no. I I would I would like I I want to play this game first glance at it. Um, I like the low pan down in the corner or I mean the middle. I like I I mean the overall vibe of this game is is super fun. Um, Brian Allen's definitely got his Brian Allen art style. I you know I'm always on the fence depending on what the theme is when Brian does caricatures cuz like they just always seem like they they just are like like exploding in this like I don't know like more like Renin Stimpy kind of like facial expressions. Everyone's like screaming, eyes bulging out. Like I'm just I you know Brian I'm like I you know on certain things it looks good. I I'm I have to see this in person. Like if I zoom in on the art here. Let's go here. You know, I'm I'm like, yeah, you know, it's like everything's screaming. It's like uh it is a little over the top, but I I like the I just love this theme. Like I just I don't really care. Like I want this game. Like I I want a big trouble in Little China pinball machine. From a mech standpoint, you know, we haven't seen much yet in terms of like what the mechs do in the game. Um but I, you know, it's definitely like like you know, the skulls like taken over. If we go up here, I mean there's not much in it. Am I am I wrong? Like where? There's like a scoop. There's a scoop here, you know, under here. Like this just looks like a drop target. I don't know. This looks like another drop target. This just looks like, you know, is that another flipper there? It's a three flipper game. This shot over AC goes across here. So like, you know, you know, when people were like, "Oh yeah, like this is killing Star Wars." I'm like, "Come on, guys." Like simmer down. like this this isn't killing Star Wars for anybody. Um I I think there's like too much Let me give some constructive criticism here. Where where's the Pork Chop Express? Like where's the iconic truck? Like there's too much too much of what's in the game right now is simply like Lopean's like like Lopean's chamber is like 90% of what's being represented in this game. Would have liked to have seen the pork chop express. Um would have liked like Raiden to fire lightning and also like that guy that like expands. I would have liked a mech for that guy to like blow up. I don't you know what I'm saying? Like I just I don't think there's anything physically in this game that's bringing those gods to life. Like Lan for example, like his whole thing was he like he's like 8 feet tall and he he sort of like rises up like having a Lan come up from under the playfield to bash like you know. I I don't know. I'm I'm it looks very um basic and I'm sure it's going to be fun with the assets, but mechanically uh I you know I just don't see much in it mechanically. Now I guess the question I have for these homebrew guys is is it can you take like a mech from an old game and reuse it in a new design? Like for example, like could you take for example the disappearing magnet genie from Toaden and make that low pan and you bash him and then the ball disappears. Could you do stuff like that? Like could you turn the Toaden lamp into a rotating uh pork chop express where you got to turn the truck around enough times? I I'm just curious because like sometimes I look at some of these all original design homebrews and I'm like yeah it really shows though the limitations of not having mechanical engineers in a game. Yeah. But But Wayne, if they're doing a one-off homebrew, like everything in the game is illegal. Like you know what I'm saying? Like why couldn't they just yank the best mechs from existing games and reuse them where it makes sense in in a game like this? That's the part I don't I don't get. And it it might actually be easier to do like what they did with Ferris Buer's Day Off and just take a good game and reskin it. The Pork Chop Express is the entire outside of the game. The C. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I mean, I I saw that. But here's my thing, Dan. If the cabinet's the Pork Chop Express, then the topper should have been like the 18-wheeler. You know what I'm saying, Dan? Like, why would you make the cabinet the Pork Chop Express and not have like the 18-wheeler, you know, on the top? Like the way the an 18-wheeler has the lights and the the exhaust pipe and the, you know, like make it look like the top of an 18-wheeler. I look I'm I if you because just throwing Ryden up there I I don't know you know I'm I'm a stickler for like details and consistency you know also having like different artists on all like Brian Allen I I don't know I like I think all the art should be from the same artist too. So I I just again like I'm I'm I don't I don't mi mix mixing and mashing to me is not is not my favorite. But again, absolutely labor of love project. I can't wait to play it at expo. I'm super happy they made it and you know it's it's cool to see this stuff. It's really cool to see this stuff. So congrats to all those guys who worked on it. But I think they've been working on it for a year cuz I remember talking to the guy after expo last year um and told him I would have loved to have been a part of a project like this just to see like hey what ideas do you have? Like I've watched this movie like a thousand times. All right. But I got I got people yesterday that were like man like like big trouble and little China make Star Wars look like crap. And I'm just like come on man. Simmer down. Simmer down. No, it doesn't. Star Wars makes Star Wars look like crap. Like, we don't need another pin to do that for it. Poor Star Wars. Poor Stern Pinball. I almost want to like, you know, put Stern Pinball on my lap and just rock it back. You guys so good for the last 20 years. You kept pinball all these years. You've lost your way. You know, you've lost your way. You turned your back on your loyal customers and you overcharged for a platform that's not innovative enough and your games are looking really cheap for the amount of money they are. Poor Stern. Okay, time to go to bed, Stern. You know, it's like they need to they need to punch back. And you know, we're we're going to see if Stern Pinball has what it takes to punch back cuz they didn't punch back with King Kong. They did not punch back with Star Wars. The Walking Dead remastered. I already know from people though have seen the game that it's it's not gonna it's not going to do what they need it to do. Um and then you know if the if the rumor is like Elliot Elliot Eismin's Transformers G1 is not I mean you know me I love Transformers G1. I I just I don't know. I just don't think Stern I I don't know. Are any of you else just like do you feel the excitement to see the next Stern the way you're excited to see Beetlejuice? Fizzy, what's up, baby? Do you think Stern investors know how inferior and cheap their games are, or do they just see the numbers? Um, look, investors just want the numbers to be where they want them to be. And Stern investors have had a really good run and they've made a lot of money. But I bet they're they're not making the margins they want right now. And they've their overhead is so big. So, we'll see. Star Wars doesn't translate on stream. So, Spooky Pinball. Um, what what have been the rumors this week? Uh, well, congratulations to uh to to Don who's been hired apparently by Spooky. I've had a a lot of people hit me up about that. I think people hit me up as if I'm going to be or like upset or disappointed and it's like anything but that. You can ask Bug and Luke. I was like I just I'm glad like if Don has good ideas to put into a game. I I the more the marrier. I I don't understand why anyone would be upset by any of this. I think those guys have a really good head on their shoulders and I think they have a very familyfriendly just friendly in general uh environment that is very uh inviting and magnetic and I think it invites people in and you know and look Bug and Luke will say to me like you know I I we wish you guys could just get along and I again I as I always tell them it it's not on my side of the fence you know I've I've tried many many times to just move past whatever there was, which was so long ago that it's almost comical that there's still an inability for people to just just be like, "Dude, are we cool? Cool." Like, just move on. Like, I don't that's kind of where I'm at with it. Um, I think you'll see when we get to expo Retro Ralph just needs apparently needs to look me in the eye. Can't wait. All right, we're going to do that. We're going to look in the eye and then I guess all's forgiven or somewhat forgiven. Uh but yeah, I'm I'm happy that we're going to get some uh some excitement in pinball coming from our friends over in Benton, Wisconsin. And I think we're going to see it. We're going to see it in I think early December. I think spooky pinball is usually like a late November, early December kind of reveal. I'm just reading you guys. Ben is doing the code. Yeah. Like I don't I don't know. Like they they told me that one of my ideas has been implemented into the next game. And I do think it's going to be Beetlejuice, Beetleju, Beetlejuice is a way to turn the game on. I I think they're going to have something fun like that. Th This is um this is a moment. This is a moment in pinball and I think we've all been waiting for this moment. And I think this is a moment in which passion over profit is going to prevail. And what passion over profit is going to do for the folks at Spooky is it's going to catapult them into the next three years of of tremendous success. I'm really excited and I couldn't be happier because I do have a very strong feeling that there will be a Beetlejuice pinball machine as the first ever game in Canadia's garage. The space is free. I I thought it might have been Star Wars. I had a Star Warsle ordered. I canceled it immediately when I saw the game. I think Beetlejuice will be the game that makes its way into my garage. I am excited for the team over there, for Franchie, for Bug, for Luke. I I think this is going to be a moment like no other in in terms of wow, like jaw-drop wow, excitement. I think this game is gonna sell out faster than anything we've seen sell out in a long, long time. And I think what's gonna happen now is a wakeup call to David Van Es. I mean, you know, look, David, you know, and David listens to my show and David I talk to him. There's a reason why they're marketing. Why do you think they're marketing Labyrinth at Expo? Think about that for a minute. Just why do you think they're like marketing Labyrinth at Pinball Expo the old game? Why? Why do you think take one guess why a company like Barrels of Fun needs to market Labyrinth? Any guesses? They got a new game they need to sell, but they're marketing the old one. Yeah. Wayne, I know you're like become this like barrels. Did you become like the barrels fanboy? Wayne, I don't know where you're at, but the flyer yesterday was all about coming to see Labyrinth at Expo. And And Wayne, I think the part that Wayne, you selling four to five dunes in Australia does not change the fact that there are a lot of unsold Labyrinth games, a lot of unsold Dune games. And I think again you're looking at it through like your little environment, right, where like there's no supply of anything in Australia. So like kind of everything moves. You sold a container of dunes. How many is that, Wayne? How many is that? Okay. You sold 40 labyrinths. All right. You sold 21 Dune machines. They need to sell a thousand, right? Right. Isn't that the a thousand? So that again when I I the the Okay, we all know this. Dune is a really neat Dune game. Like I I've been saying this for a while. It's just not a theme that most people in this demo want. I I don't know what I don't know what it's like because like when Beetlejuice sells out in nine minutes, what am I supposed to say? Like it's going to sell out in 9 minutes. Ian Ian Jacobs Ian's going to buy one. Dune and Avatar the movies make money, but no one Yeah, dude. Nobody cares about the new Avatar trailer. Have you seen it? Like, nobody cares. If David Van Es had made Barbie, he would have sold way more. He would have sold way more Barbies than Dune and Labyrinth. Look, I I always feel this pressure because I'm friends with these dudes and I understand they're passionate, but how did nobody do market research? I mean, I just put up that poll yesterday. Would you rather have Pokemon or Big Trouble in Little China? I think Big Trouble China is leading the poll. What? For you guys saying like I'm like making this up about like um like let me Oh god, this is so annoying. Like why? Let's see. I want to show you what I'm talking about. If I remember my password to Facebook and I try not to hit this damn cord again. Oh my god. Check your notifications under the Oh my god. Where Where's the notification? Hold up. I'm like, why can't I just log on to my stuff? Try another way. Text me. Oh my god. This This the modern world where they text this. Okay. Where's the text now? All right, let's see if that works. Trust this device. Sorry, guys. I'm just gonna just want to show you what I'm talking about. I I'm I mean I'm not making this stuff up. Like Like this is what I'm talking about. Revisit the game that started it all. I mean like I I know I'm being a little bit of of a facitious jerk at times. I'm I'm purposely being sarcastic, but revisit the game that started it all in two weeks. Like, I don't I don't understand. Like, this is literally what what I I mean, I get I I mean, I get they're going is a new audience. I I don't understand like start at what did it start? They They they've got hund They got maybe like a couple hundred they need to sell. I I don't I don't get it. And then like we get into this stuff, right? Like this is the part that like again I'm I'm not I don't mean to be a jerk, but like I work in comms. Don't tell me you have a hit game that didn't even sell out. In two weeks, we'll have our inaugural hit game, Jim Henson's Labyrinth. How is it a hit game? You didn't even sell. You know, you know what? And then the thing is like when I call David, you know what he always says? He's like, "Oh, well, Chris, we only thought we were going to sell 500. Then why didn't you just release 500?" You can't say it did better than you thought, but then you offered like 1,200 of them and then you had to you had to reel that back. People forget this. Wasn't it 1,200 was the initial? Then it then they realized they weren't going to hit that. Then it was a,000 and now they've still maybe only sold 850. So like is that a hit? Is that a hit? David, I'm reading this like you're here. How like what it's did did Labyrinth sell out? I you I got you right here, David. Did Labyrinth sell out? Okay. How many more are there to be sold? I'm going to see you in two weeks. By the way, we're going to get a beer and you're going to Okay, 75 left. Okay. that began the immersive pinball journey all our games take players on. Okay. You know, you know, David, you know, I love you and I'm pulling your chain, but and thank you for showing up. Look, I I I'll I'll just give you some advice. And David, this is everybody when when talking about yourself and and I got this advice once from uh the editor and chief of Wired magazine, really smart guy, great friend of mine, Joe Brown. He said, "The biggest mistake that companies make is when they use adjectives and hyperbole to describe their own products in their communication. Don't tell me your product's a hit. I'll tell you if it's a hit. Don't tell me it's exciting and it's, you know what I'm saying? Like, and I get this is pinball marketing, so it's a little bit different. It's a little bit different. Um, but but yes, I you know, I understand in in David's company's positioning, it's a hit for them because it did better than they expected. I'm going to give you that, David, and I'm going to stop screen sharing, but but yeah, so 75 more labyrinths to be sold. Um, I know you won't tell me how many more dunes you need to sell. Um, and David Next time, next time market research the theme. It's that simple. You know, look, Stern Pinball passed on Beetlejuice, and we're about to witness a Beetlejuice feeding frenzy. Now, look, the to play devil's advocate a little bit, the reason why the the frenzy around Beetlejuice will be so significant is that only 999 will ever be made. If Stern released Beetlejuice and offered all three trims and thousands of premiums, you're not going to get the same. You know, unfortunately for Stern, nothing they release now feels special. And everything immediately on day one is a mass-roduced item that will never be hard to get. And David, you know, and I mean this David, Franchie, B, all you guys with boutique companies, the rock is yours. The ball is in your court. You guys are what people want now because you're the only companies that can actually have a a de like a volume of game that will forever be in demand if you get it right. Unfortunately for Stern, they they like they literally destroyed all of their LE buyers and the LE games are now the biggest like losses in the history of pinball and they completely got greedy. And I I go back to it. I'll go back to it again. when they charged $20,000 for James Bond's 60th. That was the middle finger moment to every single person who had helped Stern Pinball be successful over the years. Charging $20,000 for James Bond 60th. You don't get to walk that back. You can't walk it back. And it shows you what's in the heart of that company from a marketing standpoint. They thought you were so stupid that you would spend $20,000 on a single level game that like it plays all right, but it looks like crap. It's like it like literally that game looks so cheap and the bomb on that game and they know it is so cheap and then they want to go and charge you $20,000 and so they can't walk it back. They can't walk it back. And then they lied to everybody who bought one that they were going to have the exclusive James Bond Topper exclusive. Oh, no. We didn't mean exclusive. We meant exclusively signed by Keith Elwin. No, that's not what any of your press materials said. And they have yet to apologize for any of those shenanigans. And you know what? Only Canada calling them out on it left and right all the time. Calling them out on it. Nobody else. Nobody else. Chris, how long do you think it takes to develop a game, including securing the IP? Well, David, I would my guess is from soup to nuts. The developmental the development the development cycle on a pin depending on like what the theme is and you know the licensing issues. I would say two to three years depending on the complexities of the license. So, you know, it's it it depends because some licenses you might get the IP, but then you have to chase down all the actors individually to get their their rights. So, that's that's the deal with the Matrix, by the way. So Jersey Jack has the Matrix license. Everybody knows this. This is not a secret. Jersey Jack has the Matrix license, but the Wowskis will give you the IP of the Matrix, but then you've got to go individually contract all of the actors, which is a nightmare. And you know, Larry Fish Burn or Bourne might not want to do it. So, you know, you're probably never going to see a Matrix game. Christopher Franchie, I'm starting work on games for 2027 and 2028. Yeah. And I mean, Christopher Franchie, I'm buying those games in 2027 and 2028. Franchie is um Franchie's art is the best art for pinball. It's just that simple. It's the best art for pinball because it takes the iconic visual representation of the theme and it serves it back to you in an even better way that is recognizable and enhanced. There's been a lot of beautiful machines out in the world. Nothing tops Batman SLE. Top to bottom. Top to bottom. That game, you know. Do I regret selling mine? Yeah, I do. But I had my fun for it for two years. It's not even about the money. It's just beautiful game. Now, the thing is like Evil Dead, I think, is equally as beautiful now. And I think that it's just beginning. I think he's just getting started now. I think he's in the right place with the right people who have given him the right uh motivation and inspiration and I think he wants to bury those people back at Stern. Like angry people change the world. I think Franchie is going to like drive a stake through the people that like didn't know how to work with him. And you know, look, I could see it all those years he he tried to reconcile and they literally were they, you know, they always kind of gave him like, "Yeah, we'll do your podcast, but we're never going to let you back. Now he doesn't now he doesn't need to go back." And not only that, now he's a now he's going to attack your sales and it and you're going to feel it. And Stern's going to feel it. It's great. It's great. Hector. I mean, Ghostbusters is gorgeous. Ghostbusters is still Zombie's finest Ellie. Absolutely. But there's just been too much since then that doesn't look as good. Yeah, it's it's exactly what everybody wants to hear Bug say is they're excited. Do you hear anybody at Stern saying they're excited for the next three games, they can't wait for you to see them? I mean, point me in the direction where someone at Stern Pinball is saying to us, the community, we're so excited about our next three titles, we can't wait for you to see them. Is anyone saying that anywhere? uh the new CMO, has he like even after I called him out for like has he said hi to you? Has Stern's new chief marketing officer said hi to you once as a community? Has he come out from whatever he's trying to do, sell more games to Gen Z kids or people in China? Like, has he said, "Hi, my name is I'm the new Stern chief marketing officer. I want to hear from you. I've been here for about six months a year. I want to listen to what we're doing right. I want to listen to what we're doing wrong." and I want to make an impact on this organization and I need your help because you all have made this company so great all these years. Has he said that to you? That's the first thing I would have said to you. I would have said, "Hey, I'm sorry I threw a drink in Tim Ston's face. I'm happy he's no longer here. Let's get down to business. I know some of you love me, some of you hate me, but as Stern's new chief marketing officer, you know, I've been a blowhard for 12 years in this industry. I know this industry very well from a community standpoint, from a collector standpoint. And I all I ask of everyone is this. Give me a chance to make some moves here that I think you're all going to appreciate. And I and I think that's all I want to ask of you. You're not going to see me podcast. You're not going to see me on Facebook Live. I'm going to be behind the scenes a little bit and we're going to make some awesome moves and you're going to see them over the next year. Now, we it might take a, you know, a year to get some of the old decisions out of the system, but that's what our commitment is to each and every one of you. We were very excited to see competition raise the bar. Um, but nobody's going to punch like we're going to punch in this hobby. Where's that? Where's that talk? Where's that swagger? Where like John Borg doesn't even want to promote his own game. spent spent you spent like a year to making a Star Wars game you're not even proud of. They could have had me and they could have had me for probably a lot less money than I make right now because this is what pinball does to people. It makes you feel like I I love it so much. I love talking about it so much. I love being involved in it. And I think when you actually get hired in it and you get close to the sun, I think you stop loving it. I mean, look what it did to Jack Danger. I mean, we see we saw what it we physically saw what it did to Jack Danger. The most positive amazing ambassador for this sport. Now, that's that's a problem. Like Stern Pinball has a problem. Like the way they operate is breaking the people that it should be inspiring. You know what I'm saying? Like when a company breaks a man who clearly could be the future of your organization, both from an external standpoint and an internal standpoint, you know, Jack Danger's like kind of got it all. Like he's got the design skills. He's got the the look and the the of what you want. Is Donna a paid employee of I don't know if they're paying Don or not. I don't know if Spooky's on here. Um I I don't know. I mean, if you are a paid employee of a company, it it does make the podcasting difficult, maybe impossible. You know, it's like, is Nate Shiver still doing like the Stern podcast? Like I I don't know. I never hear anybody talk about or sharing Stern's podcast. Is that still happening? I remember when Ken was doing the JJP podcast. It's just like you just kind of lose it. Like I I don't think a company should have a podcast. I don't I think they should join podcasts, but I don't think they should have their own. Don just moved to Benton. He's not an employee at all, but hangs with boys. No. Did he really move to Benton Franchie from where was he? Um like he he moved houses. I I don't Wow. Okay, cool. I Man, I'm so jealous of the property values in Benton, Wisconsin. Are you serious? He bought Charlie's old house. This all is That's so That's crazy. Um, did he buy all of Charlie's Corvettes or just the house? Look, I I guarantee you, you know, my my little meager $1.5 million house here would would get me a lot more there. gang. It's crazy. Just Just go in like in my town, man, these houses like three million, four million, five million left and right. On On the waterfront, you're talking 20 million. You go to New Cananan, you you know, forget it. Then you go even further to Greenidge, you're talking hundred million dollar homes. There there's like this strip I drive by where every home is like 60 million just one after another. And this is why I'm like, ah, you know, like I'm happy with my life. I'm happy with what we have. And I I really don't know what people did to make all that money. I I think it's I'm assuming it's you're either like a doctor, a lawyer, or finance. Like there's no other way cuz like these people didn't invent anything. Like they didn't make a product that made money for the most. I think a lot of them just made money off of the markets, which is how the rest of us make money. And I don't hate it. I actually I love being in a town where my house is going to just keep going up in value. Like that's where I want to be. I want my kids to grow up in a great village. I, you know, because in the end of the day, when you're in a good location, that's all that matters. It's all that matters. We're all going to be in the same schools. We're all going to be at the same restaurants. We're all going to be walking down the same streets. And we're all going to die. And we're all going to we're all going to have fun together. Like I, you know, in some of these towns, like, you know, some, you get those D-bags that are always trying to find out how much money you have and brag about their vacations and their homes in Aspen. I'm like, that's cool. I got a beautiful Irish wife and two kids that are happy and healthy. I've got a Dodge Demon and a and one pinball machine, and I don't really need anymore. I really don't. Uh, I kind of just want money to give my kids the opportunity to travel to things, to go to Disney World more often. Like, that's what I want money for. I don't I don't need I don't need like a $20 million home with two people in it. Um Don is Dr. Pinball is a hobby and he actually buys games down. So Down South Pinball. Um Down South Pinball. I know you're insulting me right now because you're blocked on my Facebook page and you always insult me and you keep saying that because I don't buy pinball machines, I'm somehow in invalid a voice of this hobby. I don't know who you are. I'm not sure why you always come hang out in my places to continually insult me. But I'll just say this, brother. I wish you and your family nothing but health and happiness in life. But let me just let me just let me just ask you a favor. You don't like me. Leave. Just leave. Nobody like nobody is excited by your presence. And And I guess what I you know I don't think it's healthy, brother, to go hang out with people you don't like. Like you literally all you ever do is insult me and say I don't buy games. Okay, I could go buy where where do you want me to put my games? Where do you want me to put them? And I'm glad I don't buy all these games because I I'm making money. I'm making money, bro. I don't want to lose three to $4,000 on these games. But yeah, these guys are funny. I mean, it's like, you know, it's like Bro, Bro, you're in. There's a reason why the reason it's just funny, man. These dudes. All right, hold on. Yeah, like a lot of people, man. Like well look the thing about you know it's it's weird to say like I buy games so I'm what what I mean look Don was buy you know how much money Don has lost buying games and don't like because he bought like John Wick Ali bro like again like I think he's learned a lesson too is that all right maybe maybe running in to buy all these Ellies was pointless There's no fame in pinball, man. Nobody's famous. Let me just go get some more coffee. Hold on. No, like I look I I legit always wonder like what makes people trigger triggered by Canada so much. Hold on. More coffee. It's so beautiful out. Yo, do we have any like Can I ask you guys a question? And I mean this. Do we have any like doctors? Are there any like doc any doctors or like chiropractors or anybody? I just have for the last like month and I I think it's because I'm like right right here right here like right on my back of my hip this pain right there. It's right here and it's just chronic now and I don't know what to do. I think I might be like sleeping on it weird or like the way I sit in it. I don't know what the what's going on. And it's not it's I think it's cuz I maybe cuz I wear shoes without enough enough arches. I don't know what getting old sucks. It It sucks. It's not a kidney stone. Does Kay have more than one pinball machine yet? No. I have Guns and Roses. Do you wear a wallet in your back pocket? No. Tendonitis? Yeah, I think I need to get that, Alex, because I think I think like when you get like the nerve, it just won't and and like definitely when I take some pain medication, it knocks it out a little bit. It's a tuma. I know I was going to get butt jokes. Um, yeah. I don't know. Well, I was thinking it might be from driving the Toyota long distances. I think, you know, when I get in and out of that Toyota, I feel the pain there from like, you know, the manual transmission and using the left leg for the for the clutch. Have you seen the big trouble playfielder gameplay? BJ Big What's BJ? BJ Beetlejuice. No, I haven't seen Beetlejuice. Hey guys, I sold a friend his first loin yesterday. The joint. Yeah, bad lower disc, crushing nerves to leg. I I definitely think it's it's like a nerve thing. Who do I go to that? Who do I do I go to? a a chiropractor or a general like who should I go see for this cuz I want to get it I want to get it treated cuz I I it's just annoying. A physical therapist, a massage therapist, yoga. Um all right. Is that covered by insurance? Go see. All right. Acupunchure. I love all these. All right. I'm going to get it taken care of this winter. H. Other than that, I feel fine. Other than this chronic pain in my lower left hip area, I feel great. Um, how you guys doing just in general? How you guys doing overall? I think what what annoys people is that I recommend people not to buy pinball machines unless the game is really worth it, unless the game makes you happy and unless you see the value in the game. Uh, yes. I tend to to lean in the territory of I don't think you need more in life to be happy. I don't think you need to buy more things to be happy. I don't think a lot of stuff is elevating the pinball hobby creatively. I don't think uh four games a year by Stern is very sustainable at these prices. I also think we're seeing a lack of creativity when when you're dividing your talent up so much like they do at Stern. And again, I just think there's an ignorance to where modern pinball is. And having covered the hobby for 12 years, I think I have a decent amount of a perspective, if you will, on where pinball has has arrived at after co. I mean, it used to be a hobby where everybody won. Everybody won. Like, you got into it, you played your games, you had fun, operators were making money. Games were not that much money to operate. If you bought it for your home and you moved it on, you weren't losing much money. In fact, you probably got your money back or you made a few thousand dollar and now it's the complete opposite. You buy four Sternle and you've lost $13,000 in a year. Can't say that. Canada, please don't come to Pinball Expo. Cana manufacturers don't want you there, Canada. I love the new video mode in Evil Dead. I saw that. I was watching it. Creativity, campiness, creativity. It's not just the video mode. It's the old school TV surrounding it. Details, Details, details. It's awesome. Like the same thing. I love the video mode in Jaws. I love the Jaws the the whole like 8bit Jaws mode they put into that game. We need more of this. Do you have the new Guns and Roses? The new Guns and Roses? What? Pinball machine. Dean. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yes. This is like the worst. Yes, I have the Jersey Jack G&R. Hector, do you keep I I think I'm like I think your messages keep getting um Let me see if I can turn off moderation. Oh no. Did I just Yeah, I think it keeps moderating you, Hector. Hold on. It's annoying. I don't know why. Uh is it the heart? I don't know where it's at. Something. It's something here. Cancel. All right. All right. Hold on. Yeah. like gang, you know, the world the world the world's really expensive and everyone now is just kind of I I look things are what they are. I I don't I try not to I I look at the world and I look at everything and the older I get, the less excited I get about the things that don't truly matter. And as I, you know, get towards 50 and I think about, well, what really matters to me is quality time with family and friends and seeing as much of this beautiful Earth as I can, maximizing the amount of times I can feel free and feel at peace and feel true happiness. I don't think $15,000 pinball machines deliver on that. Now, what I do think pinball delivers on is community, friendship, love, conversation, and connection. And that is why pinball is always going to be worth it. But it's also why you don't need to buy games to experience those things. Once you truly understand, you got to remember that 99% of people on the planet don't even understand that there are objectives in a pinball machine. they just walk up to it and and just flail. So once you get what it's all about and you've experienced it and you then it's to me it's just fun to observe it all and connect with people and discuss it and play it and have opinions about it. But this whole notion that, you know, we need to keep buying games to keep these companies in business and fill your homes with more stuff. And I, you know, and I know I can speak from experience. I've collected many things. I collected arcade games. I collected Transformers toys. I collected Street Fighter 2 action figures. I've collected Gucci clothes. I've collected um you know, everything that I've bought never really filled much of any of the voids of my life that my wife and children fill. And none of the things I bought have ever left an indelible experience like my trip to Santorini with Brenda, like my honeymoon in Japan, uh like bringing Killian to Disney World for the first time. And so as I think about where to spend money and I h like I have a pinball machine I love. You have many you love. I'm gonna get Beetlejuice. I know I'm going to love it. I don't need to keep absorbing more. And you know I think what's kind of always made me feel very proud as the world's most subscribed to pinball podcaster. More subscribers than all the other shows combined. Think about that for a minute. And I'm the only one who doesn't keep buying every single game. I'm the only one that doesn't go deep into like rule sets. So why is it why is it the success of Canad Pinball Podcast and the topic which is always pinball related, but we're getting to a layer that's more meaningful, more impactful, and more honest and more real. And I love it. And I love that you hang out here every Saturday morning and I have this this extended family. I feel blessed. I feel blessed. I feel like Robin did me the greatest favor ever when he banned me banned me from pinside 12 years ago. Will you sell GNR for Beetlejuice? No, I I'm I'm not. I I look the thing about G&R gang, it's just it you you have no idea the nightmare it was getting it up the stairs. I just worry about moving it out and ever moving anything else up there. It was like literally a nightmare. Um, I also love Guns and Roses. I I as a band um GNR will always be to me G&R will always be um looked at with fondness. It will. And you know cuz because here's what'll happen. You're just never going to get another music pin like Guns and Roses ever. And you're never going to get like a concert in a box the way they did G&R ever again. And I know that it's doesn't shoot great and I know that there's issues with the game, but there is a there is a level of beauty to that game that I just enjoy walking by it every day. I really do. I love the fact that you can just put it in jukebox mode and I could pour some whisies and and see an entire Guns and Roses concert. Uh, you know, with this amazing light show coming from this incredible work of art. I I that makes me happy as a G&R fan. I never thought we'd see a pinball um experience like that. I don't I don't like Iron Maiden as much as Guns and Roses. I I of course Iron Maiden is a better shooting pinball machine. But But again, gang, you put Iron Maiden next to Guns and Roses, it looks like it costs half as much money. I'm tired of Stern's cheapness. I just have to be honest. I Stern makes the nicest like $7,500 less. I just I I'm going to be candid here. Stern machines look cheap. And I'm tired of being told that I need to accept this cheap looking platform at twice the price now that it used to be. They do not look any better. They didn't they don't look any better than they did when they were $6,500. So like I'm tired I I'm tired of Stern apologist. I'm tired of this platform that hasn't evolved enough. I'm just tired of it. Stern games look like Tinker Toys next to Jersey Jack games. And now that Jersey Jack games shoot well and now that Jersey Jack games are gonna have great themes and now that Jersey Jack's got Steve Ritchie with like flow, I'm tired. It's no comparison. Harry Potter makes King Kong look like a $5,000 game. Okay. So, JC said, "Jaws Anniversary, Metallica Remastered, Elvara, Blood, Red, Don't." Yeah, those are those games, I will say, look good, but they could look so much better. Imagine if JJP made Jaws. Imagine if JJP made Metallica. It would just look so much better. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I don't know. I don't know. Look, I I um I don't want to feel this way about Stern anymore. I'm getting tired of feeling this way about Stern. They need to up their game. They need to up their game. You know what's great about all this though? We all have different opinions. Nobody's opinion is wrong here. Nobody's opinion is not valid. I I love hearing people tell me they don't like Guns and Roses. I don't want to live in a world in which everybody likes Guns and Roses. I don't want to live in a world in which everybody likes Iron Maiden. I don't want to live in a world in which, you know, people just universally like one thing or the other. I I think it's good to have disagreements. It's good to have different opinions. As long as we articulate and treat each other with respect, I think it's good. Yeah. So, you know, and maybe it's not respectful for me to call anyone who buys the Star Wars Ali a dummy, but you are a dummy cuz why wouldn't you just buy it for 10 in like a month? It's going to be 10 G's in a month. Who would Why would you buy a Star Wars LE right now? Wait, what? what? How rich do you have to be to just flush $3,000 down the toilet? But people like rich people usually want to buy low and sell high. So that's what I don't get. I've been on a Stern tour. I've to like I've had so many Stern tours. I've had George Gomez, Seth and Gary like private tour. I I've I I respect what they do, but in the end, I don't care about all that. If what they're cranking out is Star Wars, all for nothing. Pins are terrible investments now. They're terrible, you know? Like I mean, they just are. I like I don't look at any of this stuff like investments. I again it's I I look at it like to me it's about not a financial investment. It's just like where do you want to invest your time? You know what I'm saying? Like you guys have you like every week many of you invest your time in hanging out here. I'm I appreciate that. And I look this is you you know this like this hour and a half is more exciting than playing an hour and a half of Star Wars Pinball. I I mean that I 100% and you you would feel it too. If you played Star Wars Pinball for an hour and a half, you would after a while you'd be like ah you'd be frustrated with the tight shots. You'd be like over it. You'd be Yeah. This is more entertaining than that. And this is free. I mean, other than your internet connection, this is free. So, I can entertain you in the, you know, in the world of pinball, I can provide more entertainment than than a lot of stern machines for 90 minutes. And I and I keep money in your pocket. I encourage you to go use that money for better, more meaningful parts of life. And that's why we have most of the subscribers. That's why we have most of the, you know, we have a consistent subscriber base that is bigger than all the other shows. And look, people have copied my formula. They go live. They do the Before me doing this, man. Nobody was doing this. Did people forget this? Like people were not going live like Canada. People were not doing this like off-the- cuff. No show notes. No. Like this. This is how it it is. It's fun like this. It takes takes some real mental health issues to do this on a weekly basis. I'm kidding. Um, you know, I'm looking forward to seeing Rachel and Kale in uh in uh in uh Chicago. I wasn't able to get like a bigger omocas I'm sorry gang gang. I can't even talk. I I couldn't get like a larger omocasi like moment for us because it just like the places are just stupid. So, I was only able to get um a table for a seat at the bar for four and I haven't had really good omocasi in a while. So, I I'll just tell you who's going to be at this table. It's Kale, Rachel, and Melvin Williams and me. Friday night, 5:30 seating. So, you're not going to see me at the show. Probably going to be a 2-hour dinner. It's about 35 minutes away from Expo. And then, but the I I come in Thursday morning at uh at like 8:00 a.m. So, I you'll have me all day Thursday. All day Friday, Friday night, dinner, boom, and then all night Friday, and then I'm out like noon or something on Saturday. So, I look forward to seeing everybody there. starts in two weeks. The kids are coming home. Let me just conclude this Saturday morning spectacular part two by saying thank you for hanging out here every week. Thank you to everyone who subscribes to Canad Pinball Podcast. Thank you to everyone who who ups their subscription. Um, and it's a good time. And I think this is this is just going to be more fun as we head into Beetlejuice, as we see Raza coming. I love what I'm seeing with Raza. Uh, Back to the Future, man. And I'm hearing a lot of good stuff. Barry's never going to be able to make it though. Like the he's he's going to be making the game for six years. Like we Melvin and I were like he's going to be making the game for six years. Like I he has no plan how to up the manufacturing capacity of Dutch. Like it just I don't understand how he's going to do it. We'll see what he does. Um but it is a beautiful day here in Connecticut. My best friend, one of my best friends in the world is getting married today in New York City. So we are going in. He got he got so lucky with the Carl Weathers. I I wish each and every one of you a happy Saturday and your families and your kids. Uh enjoy your pinball machines and uh we'll be back here next week and uh yeah, more episodes of Canadas Pinball Podcast coming this week as well. Everybody have a great Saturday. The Chigichi. Dwell in the present. Live for now. Congratulations to you know all my friends in the manufacturing space. You get it done. David Van Es, thanks for hanging out. Um, and we'll be back soon. All right, let's let's shut it let's shut it down here on YouTube first.

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