# Episode 377: Dan Rosenstein

**Source:** Pinball Profile  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2023-10-18  
**Duration:** 28m 5s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://www.pinballprofile.com/episode-377-dan-rosenstein/

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## Analysis

Jeff Teolis interviews Dan Rosenstein, host of the Pinball Innovators and Makers podcast, about the homebrew pinball scene. They discuss the origins of homebrew pinball (~15 years ago), the collaborative and innovation-driven community, strategies for getting started in homebrew projects, and upcoming Expo judging. Dan emphasizes starting with what you know, the distinction between mods and full homebrews, and the value of bringing unfinished projects to shows for community feedback.

### Key Claims

- [MEDIUM] The homebrew pinball scene has its genesis approximately 15 years ago with pioneers like Scott Denisey, Jerry Stellenberg, and Michael Ocean — _Dan acknowledges the number 'might be just slightly off' but states this as the approximate origin point_
- [MEDIUM] The homebrew community has multiple waves of builders (15 years ago, ~10 years ago, ~5 years ago, and current emerging builders) working together — _Dan describes 'graduating classes' of homebrewers expanding pinball innovation across waves_
- [MEDIUM] Ideas from homebrew builders are making their way into production games from major manufacturers — _Dan notes ideas from one or few people building with their own hands are being adopted in production games_
- [HIGH] Mark in City won a Twippy for his Nightmare Before Christmas homebrew and is working on another homebrew (Rocky Horror Pitcher Show) — _Jeff directly cites Mark's Twippy award and current project status_
- [HIGH] Sean Irby's Eight Ball Beyond homebrew is expected to appear at Expo — _Dan confirms Sean Irby told him the machine will be at Expo_
- [HIGH] Aaron Davis (Fast Pinball) is local to the Seattle area and involved in homebrew community support — _Dan mentions Aaron as local to Northwest and is road-tripping to Expo with him_
- [MEDIUM] The homebrew community exhibits zero competition and collaborative spirit where success of one machine helps all — _Jeff describes the homebrew community's collaborative approach vs competitive dynamics_
- [HIGH] Dan and Jeff will judge homebrew/custom/re-theme categories at Expo with first and second place awards for each category — _Both directly confirm they will be judging at Expo with category-based prizes_

### Notable Quotes

> "What I find amazing for me, my first experience... was a friend of mine from London, Ontario. He created Nightmare Before Christmas... I was just in awe of how many hours, how much time, how much money he put into this homebrew, and the result was spectacular."
> — **Jeff Teolis**, early in episode
> _Establishes Jeff's personal connection to homebrew quality and passion_

> "Control systems are my hobby... I've been interested in just the way things work ever since I was a little kid"
> — **Dan Rosenstein**, mid-episode
> _Explains Dan's core motivation for homebrew interest beyond just pinball_

> "There is absolutely no shame. And in fact, there is pride in being able to show up with one thing that you changed because that made it your own machine."
> — **Dan Rosenstein**, mid-episode
> _Key encouragement for newcomers to homebrew/modding communities to start small_

> "Start with what you know. If you know how to program, don't worry about the mechanicals. If you have no idea for a theme, but you're really handy... you don't have to be [building everything]."
> — **Dan Rosenstein**, mid-episode
> _Core advice for entry into homebrew scene; emphasizes specialization and community collaboration_

> "The important thing... is just get started... You're not going to get it right the first time necessarily. It's OK. Go try. Go start."
> — **Dan Rosenstein**, late-mid episode
> _Reiterates Scott Denisey's philosophy on starting homebrew projects despite imperfection_

> "Your machine is yours... Not everybody has to like it. You have to like it. And if you're happy with it, that's all that really matters."
> — **Dan Rosenstein**, late episode
> _Addresses sensitivity about constructive criticism and personal ownership of homebrew projects_

> "There is so much innovation here because this is what one or a few people together are building with their own hands, with their own minds."
> — **Dan Rosenstein**, early-mid episode
> _Articulates the source of homebrew innovation compared to commercial manufacturers_

> "The community is extremely, extremely nice and welcoming. It's one of the most welcoming set of people I've ever met."
> — **Dan Rosenstein**, late episode
> _Describes homebrew community culture and social dynamics_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Dan Rosenstein | person | Host of Pinball Innovators and Makers podcast; works at Microsoft on maker team; background in control systems, robotics, engineering; based in Seattle; will judge homebrew category at Expo alongside Jeff |
| Jeff Teolis | person | Host of Pinball Profile podcast; passionate about homebrew pinball; will judge homebrew category at Expo; owns modded Simpsons pinball and AC/DC machine |
| Mark in City | person | Homebrew builder from London, Ontario; created Nightmare Before Christmas homebrew; won Twippy award; working on Rocky Horror Pitcher Show homebrew |
| Scott Denisey | person | Pioneer of homebrew pinball scene (~15 years ago); his machine became TNA in production; emphasizes 'just get started' philosophy; early whitewood builder |
| Sean Irby | person | Homebrew builder of Eight Ball Beyond; interviewed on Pinball Innovators and Makers podcast; machine expected at Expo; known for craftsmanship and learning multiple trades |
| Jerry Stellenberg | person | Pioneer of homebrew pinball scene (~15 years ago); helped establish homebrew community foundations |
| Aaron Davis | person | Founder of Fast Pinball; local to Seattle area; road-tripping to Expo with Dan; involved in homebrew support |
| Michael Ocean | person | Pioneer of homebrew pinball scene (~15 years ago); contributed to early homebrew foundations |
| Ryan McQuaid | person | Created Sonic homebrew; now with American Pinball as designer/producer |
| Mike Pegg | person | Homebrew builder interviewed on Pinball Innovators and Makers (episode 3 or 4); skilled with woodworking; built pinball machine from scratch |
| Jake Danzig | person | Creator of Dukes of Hazzard custom/re-themed pinball; worked with the Helms on artwork; beautiful machine design |
| The Helms | person | Custom pinball creators known for Black Hole movie edition; collaborated with Jake Danzig on Dukes of Hazzard |
| Marty Robbins | person | Pinball enthusiast from Australia; involved in homebrew/custom scene; mentioned seeing Pintastic re-themes |
| Lin-Manuel | person | Works on Frozen machine homebrew with pinball AR; mentioned as homebrew creator at Expo |
| Pinball Innovators and Makers Podcast | organization | Podcast hosted by Dan Rosenstein; 13 episodes released with 14th about to release; part of TPN/Pinball Network; focuses on homebrew builders and innovation |
| Pinball Expo | event | Major pinball event in Chicago in October; features homebrew row; Jeff and Dan will judge homebrew/custom/re-theme categories with first and second place awards per category |
| Texas Pinball Festival (TPF) | event | Pinball event with homebrew display; mentioned as place to see customs and re-themes |
| Northwest Pinball Show | event | Seattle-area pinball show; Dan has volunteered as tech; features homebrew and custom machines for years |
| Pintastic | event | Pinball event with significant re-themed machine display; Jeff attended and saw Jaws re-theme, poker games, Pinball 2000 re-themes, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy |
| Fast Pinball | company | Control board/maker components company; referenced as resource for homebrew builders in Seattle area |
| Marco Pinball | company | Parts supplier for homebrew pinball builders; referenced as source for ramps and components |
| Barrels of Fun | company | Commercial pinball manufacturer; recently released Labyrinth game praised for world-under-glass design |
| American Pinball | company | Commercial manufacturer; now producing Scott Gullick's Legends of Valhalla; previously produced Ryan McQuaid's Sonic |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Homebrew pinball origins and history, Community collaboration in homebrew scene, Getting started in homebrew/custom pinball, Distinction between mods, custom re-themes, and full homebrews, Homebrew showcase events and Expo judging
- **Secondary:** Innovation from homebrew builders influencing commercial games, Pinball Innovators and Makers podcast and content creation, Community feedback and constructive criticism in homebrew development

### Sentiment

**Positive** (0.87) — Episode is celebratory of homebrew community, expressing genuine passion and appreciation. Both hosts speak highly of homebrewers, the collaborative spirit, and innovation. Some concern expressed by Jeff about competitive judging potentially discouraging participants, but overall tone is encouraging and supportive.

### Signals

- **[community_signal]** Pinball Expo implementing structured homebrew judging with first and second place awards across multiple categories (custom re-themes, homebrews, mods), signaling increased formalization of homebrew recognition at major events (confidence: high) — Both Jeff and Dan confirm they will judge at Expo with category-based prizes for homebrews, custom re-themes, and mods
- **[community_signal]** Northwest Pinball Show (Seattle area) established as consistent venue for homebrew and custom machine display; positioning Seattle as secondary homebrew hub alongside Chicago Expo (confidence: medium) — Dan describes volunteering as tech at Northwest show for years; notes homebrews consistently shown there; mentions it alongside Texas Pinball Festival and Pintastic as key homebrew venues
- **[community_signal]** Pinball Innovators and Makers podcast (13+ episodes) positioning itself as dedicated platform for homebrew builder stories and innovation; platform for community knowledge-sharing and mentorship (confidence: high) — Dan launched podcast specifically to interview homebrew builders and innovators; describes community as 'his people'; mentions 14th episode in production
- **[market_signal]** Homebrew scene described as having distinct 'graduating classes' of builders across ~15-year history with waves emerging every 5 years; narrative of cyclical innovation and mentorship across generations (confidence: medium) — Dan articulates multiple waves of homebrewers (15yr, 10yr, 5yr, current) working together and expanding innovation
- **[market_signal]** Homebrew and custom re-themed machines demonstrating significant demand; one-of-one machines and re-themes drawing player interest despite (or because of) lack of commercial licensing requirements (confidence: medium) — Jeff notes 'the demand for these games, even though they're just re-skins, re-themes... the demand is huge' and mentions examples like Ferris Bueller, Wonder Woman, etc.
- **[personnel_signal]** Aaron Davis (Fast Pinball) actively involved in homebrew community support and local Seattle scene; road-tripping to Expo with Dan Rosenstein, indicating tight integration between control board manufacturer and homebrew ecosystem (confidence: high) — Dan mentions Aaron as local Fast Pinball founder and plans to road trip together to Expo
- **[announcement]** Barrels of Fun's Labyrinth game receiving strong community praise for 'world under glass' design approach with visible playfield elements; community expressing desire for more games with visible/transparent playfield design (confidence: high) — Jeff cites current day launch of Barrels of Fun Labyrinth with positive community comments about world-under-glass design and wishes for similar approach in commercial games
- **[technology_signal]** 3D printing technology enabling modding and customization of machines; referenced as democratizing tool for homebrew/mod community alongside Arduino, Raspberry Pi, P-Rock, and FastPinball control systems (confidence: high) — Jeff mentions 3D printers enabling 'almost anything' in terms of mods; Dan references P-Rock and FastPinball as accessible programming platforms

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## Transcript

 It's time for another Pinball Profile. I'm your host, Jeff Teels. You can find everything on pinballprofile.com. We're on Facebook. We're on Twitter slash X. Instagram at pinballprofile. Great Facebook group, too, that you can join as well. If you have something you'd like to email us, pinballprofile at gmail.com. And if you'd like to show your support on Patreon, that would be wonderful, patreon.com slash pinball profile like great people including david m jimmy law william m and more we're going to seattle right now there may be a little bit of a pinball scene there as you know but this is a different kind of pinball scene it's actually one of my favorites because it is so unique and i'm all about things that are unique you can't get more unique than homebrew pinball and we're going to be talking now to the host of the tpn podcast pinball innovators and makers He is Dan Rosenstein. How are you doing, Dan? I'm doing great, Jeff. How are you doing? Wonderful. It's good to talk to you. We're going to be seeing each other at Expo because there's a bit of a homebrew scene there, and we'll talk about that in just a short period of time. But the podcast, you've now got, I think, 13 episodes under your belt. Congratulations. Sound really good. Thank you very much. It's definitely been a learning journey. And I want to say publicly that I absolutely love your podcast. So not only is it an honor to be on here, but I've learned a lot from the way that you conduct your interviews. So thank you. Okay. The check is cash. Thank you very much, Dan. Appreciate that. No, that's very nice of you to say that. But our common love is, yeah, sure, we like podcasting. But really, it's this homebrew scene, and we're learning more and more from your podcast. What I find amazing for me, my first experience, and I'll ask you yours, was a friend of mine from London, Ontario. He created Nightmare Before Christmas. That's Mark in City. In fact, he won a Twippy for this wonderful homebrew, and he's even working on another one, the Rocky Horror Pitcher Show. But I was just in awe of how many hours, how much time, how much money he put into this homebrew, and the result was spectacular. Fun, fun game that we even play in league. So for you, what was it about the homebrew scene that made you go, wow, this is incredible? So my interest in homebrew actually goes to the genesis of how I got into pinball originally, and even before that. I've been interested in just the way things work ever since I was a little kid, specifically control systems. Like I joke with my friends that as nerdy as it is, control systems are my hobby. Professionally, I do control systems when I'm working pinball machines as control systems. And, you know, I've got an electric DeLorean that I'm converting to electric. That's a control system as well. And I've just always been fascinated with them, mechanical ones, electrical ones, whatever it is. When I was in my youth, I dogged my dad for years to get a pinball machine. And he finally did when I was 13. and my uncle got one as well the same day. I got an F-14 Tomcat. My uncle got and my cousin got a space station, and we owned those machines for years, and I was always fascinated whenever a tech would come over and open it up and actually work on it, although I had no idea what was going on at the time. And fast forward, my fascination for control systems grew and grew. I went to engineering school, and I've always been interested in robotics as well, and the combination between control systems and how robots work, I got my graduate degree in robotics and, you know, the company I work for, Microsoft, I ran our maker team, which was how we brought technology for the maker movement in the mid 2010s. You know how we brought software, hardware and development experience to those that were making things, you know, physical systems. And so this combination between professional home, the love for pinball and the love for control systems. and that really parlayed as I started collecting pinball machines out here, collected a bunch out here as well in Seattle, and then I ultimately got my uncle's machine. And part of that is what actually drew me to it. It wasn't the games themselves, but the control systems and maintaining them. I've been connected with the Seattle pinball community through the Northwest Pinball Show for years. However, I never reached out beyond that, and I worked as a volunteer tech at the show. During COVID, it became evident to me that there's a pinball world out there that I'm not connected to. And I want to be. I went to Expo last year with my daughter, met a bunch of really great people there and looked for, you know, what would be an authentic niche where, you know, I want to pick up podcasting. And the authentic niche was my love for control systems and really the people who build this stuff and the technology that they build. And so that's where the Pinball Innovator and Makers Podcast was born. I can see how you were overwhelmed there, certainly in Seattle with the scene that's there, that Northwest show I've heard nothing but great things about, and then of course Expo. It's the first thing I go to when I go to Expo, and that's coming up very, very soon. And I'm always amazed at the passion of the people making these machines, and not just homebrews, but the re-themes, and how much time and effort they put into this, and the enjoyment of everyone playing. Even sometimes you'll see something like a Whitewood. Obviously we saw that years ago with Scott Denisi, which turned into TNA. It can be anything. It can be, of course, those that were fortunate enough to be in Southern California when Keith and Randy Elwin were putting together Archer, which obviously turned into Iron Maiden. You go to Expo, you see Ryan McQuaid's wonderful Sonic. Now he's with American Pinball. Mark Seiden, his Metroid game was a lot of fun. And somebody I'm obviously close to is Scott Gullick's, his Legends of Valhalla game that is now mass-produced by American. So you never know where these games are going to go, But I don't know for everyone if that's the goal. I want to get within a company and maybe have these mass produced. It's not about that. It's about really just that passion project. And it's probably more overwhelming for most people when they find out, holy cow, there's that much demand for this? It truly takes a team to build a pinball machine. You know, I'm really any complicated electrical control system that has art, that has mechanical pieces, electrical pieces, that has a game aspect to it or some primary function like a robot. You know, in doing the podcast, one of the things that has become extremely evident to me is that, number one, everybody does this differently. Number two, the approach is and the journey is just as important as the destination, if not more. And while there are some people who are doing it who really want to make a profession of it, what you really see come through, first and foremost, is just the love of pinball and the love of how it works. You know, like, I love doing the podcast because I feel like I'm talking to my people. Not only are these pinball people, but these are pinball people who are taking an existing machine and, like you said, retheming it, or taking the controls out and reprogramming it or putting a new control board into it. Or you know for the ones who are building all the way from the ground up you know I applaud them for going and learning all the different parts that it takes There many different systems that are coming together and many different crafts that are coming together And what we see at the shows is the tip of the iceberg of the people who started projects and actually get to a point where they're comfortable sharing it. And I would love to see people who are even earlier in their projects bring their works to the various different expos. There in Seattle, you've been fortunate enough to see somebody you and I both have interviewed in Sean Irby and his Eight Ball Beyond. and I haven't seen that game. Looking forward to it. I believe it's going to be at Expo. My fingers crossed it's supposed to be. It is, isn't it? Yeah, Sean has told me it's going to be at Expo. His innovation and his craftsmanship is absolutely top-notch. And the guy has gone from not knowing anything to being a master of many, many different trades. Well, that's something. And again, I've never built anything. If the slightest thing goes wrong with the pinball machine, I'm calling somebody, help me out here. I want to learn, but I don't know where to start. I know what's wrong, but I don't know where to fix it. And I don't know if that's a fear. You and I are opposite in that way. You would probably just get right in there and fix it. And there's great resources too, whether it's Pinside, whether it's Facebook, all the different communities. But when I speak of the homebrew community and Sean and Mark and Sidney and all these others that have created this, it is a real group effort. You know, the willingness, the passion for that community to see each of these machines succeed. There is zero competition. It's like if one does well, they all do well. And again, it brings more attention to the homebrew and probably gets people fired up. If such and such can do this, then I can do this. And even if I can't do it by myself, I certainly can get help because that's something this community is fantastic for doing in the homebrew scene. Yeah, you're spot on. And the homebrew scene, as we know it, really has its genesis about, let's say, 15 years ago. that number might be just slightly off when, you know, Scott Denisey and Gerry Stellenberg and many, you know, Michael Ocean and many, many others who I'm forgetting right now really were kicking off like the very basics of homebrew. And at the same time, you know, the maker movement was happening worldwide through Make Magazine and Arduino and Raspberry Pi. And the attitude of being able to build these things and actually having a community where you can get on a forum and talk to people and exchange ideas. It really, like, you know, I've talked to Scott Dinesi about this, and he says, like, this is where I found a lot of my friends. And, you know, the help that they give back and forth has been absolutely amazing. And what's also interesting is there's been kind of multiple waves of homebrewers kind of working together. Like there's the, you know, 15 years ago, and then there's another group that was about 10-ish years ago, another five years ago, and there's a crop coming through right now. And it's weird. It's like you've got these graduating classes coming through and really expanding on the pinball innovation. And that's the thing about this portion of the hobby that amazes me. There is so much innovation here because this is what one or a few people together are building with their own hands, with their own minds. And the ideas that come through, whether that machine makes it to production or whether that person ends up in the pinball industry, These ideas are making their way into production games, which is awesome to see. I wouldn't even know where to start with making a homebrew. I guess you would have a favorite band maybe, perhaps a favorite TV show or movie, but it doesn't have to be that. It can be something like Trashland, for example. But just to start, okay, the hours of, here's what I want on there. Here are things I like in other pinball machines. Here's something that's never been done. Here are my favorite aspects. And basically, the world is their oyster. They've got this blank canvas. They can do whatever they want. They have the basic idea. Okay, it's got to fit inside this cab. Playfield roughly needs to be like this. I have to use these parts from whether it's Marco Pinball Life, wherever. You're in Seattle there. Maybe they're going to be using Fast. Who knows where they're going to be getting boards and whatnot. You mentioned Gerry Stellenberg. He certainly helped a lot with the homebrew scene. I just can't imagine that first leap for a homebrew maker. Okay, I've got all these ideas. Now I just have to get my hands dirty and get in there and start building this thing. Yeah, so I'm really good at giving advice on this one, but not living off my own advice. The reality, Jeff, is just start with what you know. You do audio. You're really good at it. You've done it professionally for quite some time. I'm sure you have ideas on the sound in various different games. So instead of starting with all the things that you might not know or might want to learn, why don't you start with finding a game that doesn't have audio that cuts the mustard for you? open it up and throw in a control board, you know, learn the very small pieces of what it would take to replace the sound board of a Data East game or, you know, pick whatever it is, and create some recordings of music and or call-outs that would make it, you know, a Jeff Tuelis pinball profile custom machine. That right there, you've just gone from a machine to a custom machine. It's your own thing, and you learn something along the way. It's in your wheelhouse, at least one part of it. you'll obviously learn something. And you're not taking on this giant daunting task anymore. You've broken it down to something very, very specific. And so the single best advice that I've had folks give on the show, after 13 episodes, I've actually got a 14th one that's about to be released, is start with what you know. If you know how to program, don't worry about the mechanicals. Recreate the rules for a game that you already have by a fast system or a P-Rock system. There's plenty of people that will help you make that incremental change. You don't have to be, you know, that's not a daunting thing to figure out how to put a new audio, an audio sub board or what have you. If you have no idea for a theme, but you're really handy the way the way that some folks are. Mike Pegg, who I interviewed a number of months ago, I think on the third episode of the show or the fourth episode, you know, he's really good at wood. And so he cut a piece of wood and just started drilling at it and pounding pieces in. And he built himself an amazing looking pinball machine. You've got a good point there, Dan, because it's not always about just making an entire pinball machine. It might be just something like you say, the sound aspect. I remember the first time on my ACDC machine, I said, oh, I like the game. I just wish these two songs were on there. And somebody said, well, you can change that. I'm like, what? And, of course, that's just an example. When Guardians of the Galaxy came out, people were like, oh, these call-outs are terrible. But you can change that as well. So there you go, the sound aspect. Or even just artwork. Maybe somebody is brilliant with art and they can change things. I know the Helms have done a wonderful job with their Black Hole movie edition, and I know they helped Jake Danzig definitely with his Dukes of Hazzard game. And these are beautiful machines. But the artwork's one thing. Then maybe you can get somebody to change the code. We've seen so many old games have code changes. So there you've got somebody who can do art. You've got somebody who can do sound. You've got somebody who can do programming. Somebody who can drill wood hmm they all in this community Sounds like a pinball machine Exactly That exactly the next step which is if you don want look the folks that bring machines to Expo they amazing and they amazingly crazy And I say that in the most loving way. These are people that can master all kinds of different skill sets. OK, and want to take the time to be able to do that. There is absolutely no shame. And in fact, there is pride in being able to show up with one thing that you changed because that made it your own machine. And you finding the rest of that community, wherever you live, you're going to find people that have that have those other skills. And, you know, all of a sudden now you've got a project to go work with other with other people and leverage their expertise and learn a little bit along the way. The important thing and, you know, Scott Danesi, he stresses this is just get started. Anybody who's listening to the show and has the idea that they want to go do something custom, you're not going to get it right the first time necessarily. It's OK. Go try. Go start. Go do something. Because from there, you've got a jump point to go do it better next time. And if it does turn out great the first time, awesome. Now you can actually teach somebody else how to go do it. Well, I would imagine there are more people listening to this podcast that have in some way changed a pinball machine. It can be something as simple as a mod. And now with 3D printers, you can do almost anything. I have a Simpsons pinball party that I look at here. And is it modded up? Well, yes and no. Somebody took a bunch of action figures from the Playmates company and installed them on this machine. So Cletus wasn't on the game, but he's there here. I see Mo holding a beer. There's all kinds of little things. You can change lights and do that. So almost the people who make mods or people who are into modding up their machines are really getting their hands into, like you say, making it their own, changing it just a little bit here and there. Yeah, I'm really glad you brought that up. I have the utmost respect for the modding community and specifically the people who make the mods. And obviously there's a community of people who want to install those mods as well on their machines. And full respect for that. Absolutely should go do it. Like, if that's your thing, go at it. You know, go hog wild. Have a good time. When it comes to making mods, that is like a making endeavor, a engineering endeavor, a design endeavor. Like, I applaud those people for making the community that much better. And to me, the distinction between putting a mod into a machine and creating a custom machine and a home, you know, a homebrew, there is a difference there. I can't put my finger on the difference. I'm not casting any form of a judgment. Like, you know, if the only thing you want to do is mod your machine, go at it, go hog wild, like more power to you. For some reason, I do feel that there's a distinction between doing that and doing a custom re-theme or a homebrew. I don't have a good answer for it. Yeah, Dan, they're certainly not the same. But again, it's just, as you mentioned, making it their own. And that's kind of what a homebrew person is doing when they're putting together a game. So shout-outs to the Mezel Mods and the Pin Monks and all these wonderful mod makers. But again, if you have that intuition to, okay, how can I make this game? A perfect example is today we are seeing the brand-new Barrels of Fun Labyrinth game. And the comments I'm seeing from everyone is, wow, world under glass, and they put so much in there. You can just see everything. And some of the comments are, I wish more games had that, whether it be from whatever company you're thinking of. I always think of Jersey Jack pinball, and some people say, well, they're a little pricey, but they certainly put a lot in their machine. Well, that's kind of what we're seeing with this Labyrinth game and people that are modding up their games. So when you're creating a homebrew, again, blank canvas, you can do whatever you want. I mean, bill of materials, doesn't matter. You put whatever you want in there, and even if it's a one-of-one, it's going to turn some heads. And the funny thing about these things, whether it's mods or re-themes, I think of Wonder Woman that years ago, Julie Dorser had an Electronimo changed. We mentioned Jake Danzig. We saw a Ferris Bueller game. The demand for these games, even though they're just re-skins, re-themes, maybe some rule changes, the demand is huge for these because they don't have to worry about getting a license. It's a one-of-one. Yeah. A couple of things. I did note that, you know, the custom community, you know, it's got its genesis going back 15 years. There have obviously been folks that have been doing custom pinballs even farther than that. So I'm really glad you mentioned some of those earlier conversions, as well as some of the newer ones like Ferris Bueller. You're also absolutely right that a one-of-one machine, especially for a theme that you absolutely love and adore, it's uniquely you. And so I happen to love Ferris Bueller also. I love that Ferris Bueller machine, and I would love to play it. I would love to see it. I've never actually had my hands on it. And for those folks who putting a mod into their machine is their thing, that does make the machine uniquely theirs. And I absolutely have the utmost respect for that. And, you know, folks that are doing homebrews, if they, you know, one of the folks that I interviewed was a family of three, father and sons, who are doing a Overwatch pinball machine. And what did they put in as their toys? They went and got toys. Like you said, with the Playmates for your Simpsons, they did the same thing. And so whether it's going into a machine that's built from scratch or a custom re-theme or leveraging the theme and extending it. The great thing about pinball is if you can make it yours, then that's how you're bringing your own personality to the table. And that should be applauded and pushed forward. The great thing for us in the community outside of the homebrew scene is that we do get to see these at events, at Expo in Chicago here in October. TPF had a nice display. In fact, even Pintastic, which I went to, I couldn't believe that whole room of re-themes. There was a re-themed Jaws. There was Zach's poker game. There was just all these wonderful games. Even the Pinball 2000, I saw some re-themes there. And my friend Marty Robbins from Australia is seeing that there. I think somebody made a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Again, just if you have the idea and the know-how and certainly the ability to talk to the community, there's a way to get this stuff done. But you and I are going to be at Expo and seeing this wonderful display, and it is a highlight for me this year. I certainly go to tournaments a lot, but Expo and TPF, those are the places where I really like to – it's more about the show. The tournament's great and everything, but it's more about the show, and the homebrew scene is definitely where it's at. So I know you're looking forward to that. Yeah, very much so. So, you know, I've seen homebrews and customs at the Northwest Mid-Ball Show specifically for years. So for better or for worse, they've been showing up there, and a lot having to do with Aaron Davis being local, who I happen to be road tripping to Expo with, so I'm super excited about that. We've seen homebrews showing up for a while. And I brought my daughter, who was 10 at the time, she's 11 now, to Expo last year. And one of our favorite parts was walking the homebrew row, and she loved the Frozen machine, which is one of the pinball AR that Lin-Manuel works on. and just seeing the machines seeing people play them getting time to actually play them the depth of rules You know sometimes you know just them just being whitewoods without any art or having art Like it was amazing to see She loved it. My only critique of the custom and homebrews ever is just, you know, keep them working. And there's a group of people that can help to get them working. Keep them working because the more they get played, the more they're going to be loved. If they're sitting off, people are just going to pass right by them. And one of the things that I'm excited to do judging at Expo to really recognize, along with you, Jeff, to recognize those that are doing innovation in pinball, those that have customs and rethemes, and those that have homebrews there. We're going to be giving out first and second place for each of those. Just being able to play them, even if the machine is not an award winner, is already a win in my book because somebody went off and created something that had never been done before. Yeah, we're going to be judging. I'm flattered to be included in that because of, again, my passion for these homebrews. I am a little nervous that there are winners and losers because, really, there are no losers when it comes to these. Maybe as you go to these shows, there's a clear-cut winner, of course. I think the first time we saw Sonic at this show, we were like, holy cow, what's that? I mean, you tip your cap. But I don't want people to be worried about bringing whatever state their game may be at. I don't want them to worry about bringing it to Expo or these other shows, whether it's the Northwest, whether it's TPF, because there's something to be said to seeing the progress of this. And, yeah, maybe it's just a whitewood. There's no art, and maybe you're just flipping it. There's no rules yet. But you can appreciate still how the game shoots, how it looks, the feel. Maybe it is just the artwork, and there's no rules. There's all kinds of aspects to really appreciate with the different stages that go on into these homebrews. In fact, I think, and I wasn't there at the time, I think that was kind of the case with Scott Denisey. It started as just a whitewood, and people were like, holy cow, let's see where this is going. Of course, there's tons and tons of threads, and I know Sean Irby did it with 8 Ball Beyond. You can see in the threads in Pinside the progress, but it's something to see firsthand at a show like Expo. Yeah, and playing off what you're saying, and I completely agree with you, the pinball companies, they spend a lot of time testing their games. Designers will constantly be playing their game. They'll bring other people, and you hear this about on podcasts all the time. You hear the stories where somebody was brought in, they tried something, something was changed, et cetera. And then the games are then put on location at various different, it used to be anyways, at various different phases throughout the development cycle. and that user feedback, regardless of actually what type of product you're building, understanding what the user actually wants and building towards what their desires are is absolutely key. Like you may think that a shot is really good when 10 other people play it and they can't make it. That's actually a good thing to know. And so Jeff, I completely agree with you. People should absolutely not be discouraged from bringing their machine, whatever state it's in, even if like you said, only the flippers are flipping, to bring it to Expo, Let people try it and go and talk to people. Learn what they want. Talk with them about what your vision is. Join the community because all that's going to happen is that machine, that project, and your knowledge is just going to be expanded. You're going to learn something. And the community is extremely, extremely nice and welcoming. It's one of the most welcoming set of people I've ever met. I think everybody enjoys the flattery and the comments and the positive feedback that you get. But there is real value in constructive criticism and some suggestions that maybe that one single person just didn't see because the more minds, the better. And really, again, the homebrew community, everyone giving their input and some suggestions and solutions for struggles that you may be having, that will really be shown at a big venue like Expo. So I can only imagine many people that have made these homebrew games have come to these shows and said, never thought of that. I can make a quick fix on that. Maybe I can change the shot here or there. Maybe that rule doesn't work. So it's only to the benefit of the homebrew designer to bring these to these shows. It's also to actually bring up constructive criticism because, you know, homebrews and customs are something that's very, very, very personal to the person who made it or the group of people that made it. I mean, it's usually a theme or a design direction that this person has been thinking about for, you know, possibly for years. And so a lot of times that constructive criticism can, especially how it's delivered, and not everybody is always nice, unfortunately, or not everybody intends to be rude either, they can be taken very harshly. And one word of wisdom that I will offer to everybody who might be discouraged to bring their machine because they might get constructive criticism, the reality is you don't have to agree with it. You don't even have to take it into account and do it. your machine is yours, whether it's a mod you made or whether you did a custom re-theme or what have you. Not everybody has to like it. You have to like it. And if you're happy with it, that's all that really matters. If you're friends and you are happy with it, even better, you'll get to flip on it. And if you get the constructive criticism, don't take it personally. I highly doubt that the person meant it as a knock on you. It's something that they thought. People are opinionated. They're going to say what they want. You don't have to listen. You can, You don't have to. Dan, some great points for sure. And we will find out more about these wonderful machines, especially on Pinball Innovators and Makers, your wonderful podcast on the Pinball Network. If people want to reach you, maybe they've got a homebrew game that you don't even know about. We want to get it on your podcast. Where can they get in touch with you? If they're on Facebook, we have a Pinball Innovators and Makers podcast group. We're just under 100 members, which absolutely surprises me. You know, I can definitely be reached there. I can be reached on Facebook through that as well. If folks want to get my email address, they can just PM me and I'll give it to them. Dan, thank you very much. I will be seeing you in less than a week's time. It'll be fun at Expo. I look very forward to meeting you, judging together. And you said it the best. We're giving away first and second place in three different categories, but every single person who showed up there should absolutely be proud of what they've done because they've done something that very few people have and will. All right, Dan. Safe travels. I'll see you soon. You too. Thanks. This has been your Pinball Profile. You can find everything on pinballprofile.com. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram at pinballprofile, email pinballprofile at gmail.com. And if you'd like to show your support, that would be wonderful on patreon.com slash pinballprofile, like great people including Tony V, Rodney C, Lua W. Don't worry, the show will always be free. This just certainly helps keep it going, and I appreciate that. I'm Jeff Teolis. We'll see you next time.

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 4c73fc36-d804-4ad4-bd40-57aaae2487ee*