# Episode 1022: "BTTF Common Sense & Will JJP Ever Learn?"

**Source:** Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2024-11-13  
**Duration:** 26m 56s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-1022-jjp-115931987

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## Analysis

Kaneda discusses Dutch Pinball's Back to the Future production capacity challenges and argues Stern could manufacture it more efficiently; strongly criticizes Jersey Jack's recent game selections and leadership for consistently underwhelming sales; expresses concern about Stern's John Wick and X-Men launches and a deteriorating secondary market for pinball across the industry.

### Key Claims

- [MEDIUM] Dutch Pinball manufactures approximately 500 games per year (10 per week on Big Lebowski production); Stern can make roughly 2,500 games per month (800 per week) — _Kaneda's production capacity analysis for manufacturing comparison_
- [MEDIUM] Back to the Future would receive 10,000+ orders if released, which would take Dutch Pinball 20 years to fulfill at current capacity — _Kaneda's speculative math on market demand and production timelines_
- [MEDIUM] Back to the Future is designed primarily in digital/software sense without a complete physical prototype ready for production — _Kaneda citing 'rumor mill' information about development status_
- [HIGH] Jersey Jack Avatar Owners Club thread has only five pages despite months of release, indicating unusually low enthusiasm — _Kaneda's direct observation of forum activity_
- [HIGH] Jersey Jack has released four games in a row (Toy Story 4, The Godfather, Elton John, Avatar) that have underperformed sales and secondary market value — _Kaneda's analysis of recent JJP release history and market performance_
- [HIGH] Metallica LE is the only Stern game with healthy secondary market resale value; all other recent games show significant depreciation — _Kaneda's assessment of secondhand market health across manufacturers_
- [HIGH] X-Men has hardware quality issues including auto-plunger problems, sentinel hand issues, and playfield geometry problems requiring field modifications — _Kaneda's analysis of X-Men owners troubleshooting thread_
- [MEDIUM] Alice's Adventures in Wonderland production essentially saved Dutch Pinball from potential closure due to gap in their game pipeline — _Kaneda's speculation on Dutch Pinball's financial situation and production scheduling_

### Notable Quotes

> "If Dutch Pinball were to make this game on their current schedule and they get 10,000 orders and they make 500 games a week, that means it would take Dutch Pinball, as they currently stand, 20 years to make these games."
> — **Kaneda**, ~05:30
> _Core argument for why Stern manufacturing Back to the Future would be more efficient than Dutch Pinball_

> "When is Jersey Jack Pinball going to learn? After 11 years, when is Jersey Jack Pinball going to actually listen to feedback?"
> — **Kaneda**, ~20:00
> _Central criticism of JJP's decision-making and apparent inability to correct course_

> "If you bought one of these avatar CEs, which seemingly nobody wants to admit they bought it, right? How are there only five pages of an avatar owners club?"
> — **Kaneda**, ~23:30
> _Highlights the lack of community enthusiasm for Avatar as unusual for a JJP CE release_

> "If I walked into my job and handed four terrible ideas in a row into our biggest client and we needed a hit, I would be let go. But everybody at Jersey Jack is too comfortable."
> — **Kaneda**, ~26:00
> _Direct criticism of JJP accountability and organizational consequences for poor decisions_

> "I'm worried about this hobby. Pinball prices are inflated, so they're never going to come down. The rest of the world, you're going to start to see prices correct. Hopefully, right? Maybe not hopefully. But yet pinball is stuck here in the super expensive realm."
> — **Kaneda**, ~47:00
> _Broader market concern about unsustainable pricing and secondary market collapse threatening hobby viability_

> "There is no healthy secondhand market in pinball anymore. Across the board, only Metallica LE, one game, one game has a healthy secondhand return for the buyer."
> — **Kaneda**, ~45:30
> _Stark assessment of secondary market collapse across the industry_

> "If there's no secondhand market that's healthy on a Stern game, on a Jersey Jack game, on a spooky game... how long do you think it's going to last?"
> — **Kaneda**, ~45:00
> _Frames secondary market health as existential threat to pinball hobby sustainability_

> "The game is done already. It's dead on arrival. And now we wait for February or March when we're gonna see Harry Potter."
> — **Kaneda**, ~30:00
> _Harsh assessment of Avatar's commercial viability and anticipation for next JJP release_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Boutique pinball manufacturer heavily criticized for recent game selections (Avatar, Godfather, Elton John, Toy Story 4) and poor secondary market performance; leadership accountability questioned |
| Dutch Pinball | company | Netherlands manufacturer facing production capacity constraints; produces ~500 games/year; developing Back to the Future with potential third-party manufacturing assistance |
| Stern Pinball | company | Major manufacturer with capacity (~2,500 games/month); positioned as alternative manufacturer for Back to the Future; recent releases (John Wick, X-Men, Godzilla Black & White) discussed with mixed reception |
| American Pinball | company | Smaller manufacturer expected to release Cuphead game at end of week with no prior marketing lead-up |
| Spooky Pinball | company | Manufacturer mentioned regarding direct-to-consumer sales model and upcoming releases (Looney Tunes, Texas Chainsaw, Evil Dead) |
| Barrels of Fun | company | Manufacturer mentioned alongside Spooky regarding production pipeline continuity (Labyrinth game status referenced) |
| Jack Guarneri | person | Founder of Jersey Jack Pinball; held responsible by Kaneda for poor marketing decisions across four consecutive game releases |
| Ken Cromwell | person | Jersey Jack marketing/PR figure; defended by Kaneda as doing his job despite poor game selection by leadership |
| Eric Minier | person | Jersey Jack designer; praised for factory tour logistics but whose game designs (Godfather) were noted as abysmal |
| Barry | person | Dutch Pinball leadership/founder; positioned as key decision-maker on Back to the Future manufacturing and licensing strategy |
| Tom Capero | person | Jersey Jack factory representative who gave tour; praised for professionalism |
| Mark Seiden | person | Jersey Jack representative described as 'really nice guy'; involved in media outreach |
| Keith Elwin | person | Stern designer referenced as prolific and potential designer for Back to the Future if Stern acquired IP; King Kong game noted as completed |
| Brett | person | Jersey Jack owner (mentioned as owner alongside Leonard and Jack); ultimately responsible for company direction |
| Leonard | person | Jersey Jack owner mentioned alongside Brett and Jack Guarneri |
| Back to the Future | game | Highly anticipated Dutch Pinball title in development; speculated to receive 10,000+ orders; manufacturing/licensing details discussed; anticipated late 2026 release |
| Avatar | game | Recent Jersey Jack release with unusually low owner engagement (5-page thread); described as 'dead on arrival' with poor secondary market prospects |
| X-Men | game | Recent Stern release with significant hardware quality issues (auto-plunger, sentinel hands, playfield geometry); owners troubleshooting extensively |
| John Wick LE | game | Stern release with controversial launch and poor initial reception; predicted to depreciate $5,000+ by end of 2025 |
| Godzilla Black and White | game | Stern release with color consistency issues in accessories; trans light coloring problems noted; felt like 'compromised game' |
| Cuphead | game | American Pinball upcoming release expected end of week with no prior marketing teasers |
| Harry Potter | game | Jersey Jack upcoming release expected February/March; anticipation high but tempered by pattern of underwhelming previous releases |
| Metallica LE | game | Identified as sole Stern game maintaining healthy secondary market resale value in current market |
| Big Lebowski | game | Dutch Pinball title currently in production (10/week); demand noted as over; production baseline for Dutch capacity analysis |
| Alice's Adventures in Wonderland | game | Dutch Pinball title credited with saving company during Back to the Future development delays |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Back to the Future manufacturing logistics and licensing strategy, Jersey Jack Pinball leadership accountability and game selection strategy, Secondary market collapse and game depreciation across manufacturers, Hardware quality issues and rushed product launches (X-Men, John Wick)
- **Secondary:** Dutch Pinball production capacity and game pipeline planning, Direct-to-consumer sales models vs. distributor relationships, Community engagement metrics and owner enthusiasm tracking
- **Mentioned:** Stern pinball competitive positioning and designer resource allocation

### Sentiment

**Negative** (-0.78) — Kaneda is deeply critical of Jersey Jack's recent strategy and leadership, concerned about industry sustainability, and frustrated with quality/pricing issues across manufacturers. Some acknowledgment of positive efforts (factory tours, Ken Cromwell's work) but overwhelmed by structural industry problems and market collapse concerns.

### Signals

- **[product_concern]** X-Men experiencing widespread hardware issues including auto-plunger failures, sentinel hand problems, playfield geometry issues, and ball hang-ups requiring field modifications (confidence: high) — Kaneda: 'If people are pulling the game apart, drilling play fields, having to like bend wire forms, having to try to add, you know, washers here and washers there, and the geometry is not right, and the auto plunger doesn't work, and the sentinel hands are problematic, and the ball is getting hung up here.'
- **[sentiment_shift]** Jersey Jack facing severe reputational crisis with four consecutive underperforming game releases; community engagement metrics (Avatar Owners Club thread at 5 pages vs. historical baseline) showing unprecedented low enthusiasm (confidence: high) — Kaneda: 'This game has been out for a few months now... The Avatar Owners Club is only five pages long. There is less enthusiasm for this game than Elton John, than The Godfather, than Toy Story 4.'
- **[market_signal]** Across-the-board depreciation in secondary market with only Metallica LE maintaining healthy resale value; buyers facing $3,000-$5,000+ losses on recent releases (confidence: high) — Kaneda: 'There is no healthy secondhand market in pinball anymore. Across the board, only Metallica LE, one game, one game has a healthy secondhand return for the buyer.'
- **[supply_chain_signal]** Distributors sitting on unsold Pro and Premium inventory; LEs priced too high ($13,000-$15,000) making them harder to move while not generating proportionally higher distributor margins (confidence: medium) — Kaneda: 'The distros are sitting on unsold inventory. They're not happy. Distros wish that LEs were 85 or $9,000. They don't want them to be 13 or $15,000. They're not making that much more.'
- **[manufacturing_signal]** Dutch Pinball capacity severely limited (~500 games/year vs. Stern ~2,500/month); raises questions about third-party manufacturing assistance for Back to the Future (confidence: high) — Kaneda: 'They're making 10 big Lebowskis a week. Think about that for a minute. That's 500 games a year. Stern Pinball can make 800 games a week.'
- **[business_signal]** Jersey Jack leadership (Jack Guarneri, Brett, Leonard) making consecutive poor strategic decisions with no accountability; no personnel changes despite underperformance (confidence: high) — Kaneda: 'Nobody got fired, right? Nobody got fired. If I walked into my job and handed four terrible ideas in a row into our biggest client and we needed a hit, I would be let go.'
- **[community_signal]** Avatar Owners Club thread engagement (5 pages) significantly below historical baselines for JJP CE releases; indicates unprecedented low community adoption (confidence: high) — Kaneda: 'How are there only five pages of an avatar owners club. Didn't some of you order it, right? If they're gonna make a thousand of these things, how is there not at least like 50 pages?'
- **[product_strategy]** Jersey Jack's recent theme choices (Avatar, Godfather, Elton John, Toy Story 4) misaligned with collector demographic preferences; themes like Big Trouble in Little China, Karate Kid, or Bloodsport would have performed better (confidence: medium) — Kaneda: 'This is not a popular theme right now with the pinball buying demographic. Culturally, it's never hit. James Cameron wanted this to be his Star Wars. It's not.'
- **[industry_signal]** Pinball pricing structure unsustainable; games priced $7,000-$15,000 with guaranteed $3,000-$5,000+ depreciation within months creates market barrier for new buyers (confidence: high) — Kaneda: 'Everybody's losing so much money on every game. If you buy it new in box, you're going to lose thousands of dollars. I mean, I don't have to be a rocket scientist or an economist to tell you that's a recipe for disaster.'
- **[machine_intel]** Back to the Future development primarily in digital/software phase without complete physical prototype; suggests slower production readiness than commonly assumed (confidence: medium) — Kaneda: 'There's not a physical OMG game that's just ready to go and they're just putting the polishing touches on it... Back to the Future has been designed, but more in a digital sense.'
- **[regulatory_signal]** Back to the Future licensing complexity noted as potential barrier; Universal assets required for full game implementation; may constrain design options (confidence: medium) — Kaneda: 'The big question mark is whether or not they're going to be able to get enough of the assets from Universal to make the game the right way.'
- **[product_launch]** American Pinball planning surprise launch of Cuphead with no prior marketing teaser; attempting to create moment of surprise/delight without pre-announcement hype (confidence: medium) — Kaneda: 'There's been no teasers. There's been no lead up. So if they're going to do this, they really are going to create a moment of surprise and hopefully delight.'

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## Transcript

 I said, ma, ma, ma, I'm one spin, twice shabby. Ma, ma, ma, I'm one spin, twice shabby. I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said. Welcome everybody to Canada's Pinball Podcast. I'm slowly getting my voice back. Welcome. Happy Wednesday. What are we going to talk about? Are we going to see Cuphead from American Pinball at the end of this week? We are looking forward to a new game. Always looking forward to a new game. A new pin day is always a good day. There's been no teasers. There's been no lead up. So if they're going to do this, they really are going to create a moment of surprise and hopefully delight. We're all going to be surprised that they just dropped it into the pinball world. Will it be a delightful game? We shall see. What I want to talk about on this episode of Canada's Pinball Podcast, I really want to focus on a few things. I want to focus on Jersey Jack Pinball. Are they finally going to learn a lesson? It's been 11 years now, 12 years now. They're on their like 10th game and it's not selling at all. And I wonder what is next for this company. We're going to talk about the Godzilla black and white accessories. We're going to talk about X-Men thread and how it's become just a troubleshoot thread and what that means for this game moving forward. And I want to start out this episode by talking about Dutch Pinball and Back to the Future. Some of you out there have a hard time comprehending what I said on my last show. So let me break it down real simple. And by the way, I've been reading Pinside and nobody is giving me credit for delivering this information. and I don't know what's up with that. But here's the deal, everybody. It makes total sense why Barry over at Dutch Pinball has been talking to someone to help him manufacture this game. Remember, they're making 10 big Lebowskis a week. Think about that for a minute. That's 500 games a year. Stern Pinball can make 800 games a week. Now, throw into the mix, back to the future, a game in which you're going to get 10,000 orders easily. So if Dutch Pinball were to make this game on their current schedule and they get 10,000 orders and they make 500 games a week, that means it would take Dutch Pinball, as they currently stand, 20 years to make these games. I mean, just think about that for a minute. 20 years to make 10,000 units of Back to the Future. Now, look, I don't think they would take 10,000 orders, but you get my point. If Stern Pinball were to make Back to the Future and they got 10,000 orders and they're making somewhere in the vicinity of 2,500 games a month, they could make all the games in four to five months. And you know they could do it and you know they would do it. So just think about that for a minute. Also, I think people are under the illusion that Barry and the team over at Dutch Pinball have some incredible working whitewood of this game that features magical mechs that are even better than what you're seeing in the Big Lebowski. and I'm here to tell you right now there is no such probably white wood that is elevated what they can make over the Big Lebowski and features all of the back to the future awesomeness that you would expect. A DeLorean with doors that open up, a clock tower, a hoverboard, a Pepsi Perfect that comes up from underneath the bar, a wild gunslinger video mode in the game. I'm telling you, like if you think that there's like a working game behind a closed door that they've been working on for years, you are sorely mistaken. So when I said that Stern Pinball would like to give this IP to Keith Elwin and team to make the game, they would be able to make this game faster than Dutch Pinball would be able to make it. They have more resources. Keith Elwin is much more prolific. and let's also be honest here. I mean, Barry had some help when he made the big Lebowski. Yop played a big role in the development of the game. It wasn't just Barry. And has Barry replaced Yop with someone else who's incredible at pinball design? Is he surrounded by mechanical engineers that know how to make mechanical pinball magic? What I've heard through the rumor mill is that Back to the Future has been designed, but more in a digital sense. There's not a physical OMG game that's just ready to go and they're just putting the polishing touches on it. And so that is why it also makes sense to have someone come in and help out on the development of the game. Now, I've heard people say, well, why would Stern do this? They passed on this game and why would they go back and try to make this game now and give Barry a royalty on every game sold? You have to be a knucklehead not to realize why they would do it. because they would sell 10,000 or more units. And even if they give Barry 500 bucks per game, they're still gonna make a lot of money on every single game. Here's the thing that's crazy about pinball. So let's say they give Barry $500 per game sold. They're giving distributors and dealers more money than that on every game sold. And imagine if you're a Stern Pinball, why don't you just sell the game direct? Imagine if they just sold Back to the Future direct to customers. Do you need dealers and distros to create demand? No. Do you need dealers and distros to help you move any of these units? No. I don't understand, right? I don't understand. When you say Stern has no incentive to give Barry a royalty per game, remember they're giving a much bigger royalty per game to every single dealer and distro that really doesn't have to do any work whatsoever. And a title this popular needs no marketing help whatsoever. All right. And then I also heard the argument like, well, Keith Elwin's working on stuff. So it makes absolutely no sense. Of course, Keith Elwin's King Kong is done. It's been done for a while. He's working on another game already And he is very prolific As I said this guy eats sleeps dreams Pimbal Stern Pimbal would easily if they got this IP they could shuffle some things around so Keith Elwin could free up to make this game Remember, this would be the biggest Stern title since Ghostbusters. This would be probably the biggest Stern title of all time. And for some of you who think it wouldn't be, you're wrong. Now, to me, the big question mark are two things. Will they be able to get enough of the assets from Universal to make the game the right way? If they do not feel that confident in that, then they won't want to make the game. Then Jersey Jack will probably swoop in and make the game with muted clips, and you'll get some beautiful looking back to the future that won't have everything in it that you really want. I know for Stern to make this game, they're going to want to make it right. And the big question mark is whether or not Barry is going to make a move here. Does he want to personally be famous for bringing Back to the Future into the pinball world? And then what does it mean for the future of Dutch pinball? Are they going to become more of a boutique company? Of course, that's all they are, right? There's no way out of it. You can't just go from making 500 games a year to making thousands of games a year. You know, I think people forget this, that Alice in Wonderland kind of is saving Dutch pinball. Think about it. The demand for Lebowski is up. Like it's over. There's no more people ordering big Lebowski's. And then what is next? Back to the Future was not ready. So imagine if you're Barry and you don't have Back to the Future ready and demand on Lebowski is over. What do you do for the next year? What do you do? How do you pay those employees? How do you pay the rent? How do you keep the lights on? I'm telling you right now, if it wasn't for Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Back to the Future not being ready, that probably would have spelled the end for Dutch Pinball. This company does not have outside annuity. They don't have a billionaire backer. They don't have any other money coming in. So they need to keep that line going. We've learned this, right? We've all learned this collectively. if you're a manufacturing company and your line is not going you're losing money every single day and I think it would shock some of you how much money on a daily basis these companies would lose I would say in the ballpark if you think about all the salaries the rent the equipment I think you're looking at somewhere between three to four hundred thousand dollars a month Dutch Pinball would be losing if they didn't have another game ready to go so it's good that they have Alice ready to go. Now, I think the smart move, and this is just me, Barry inks the deal, gets a royalty on Back to the Future, makes all the Alice's, and then thinks about what is my next boutique game I'm going to make. I would love for Dutch Pinball to make more licensed theme games. I would. I don't want them to just make what Melvin's got in John Papadiuk's locker. I want them to make other stuff. I think they should look at some other themes that are out there. And I think if they make, you know, follow suit with barrels and spooky, if Dutch pinball makes like a thousand or less of a licensed game and puts their magic into the games, they're going to do just fine. I'm a little worried though. I'm a little worried that they don't really have a plan. Like back to the future should be much further along than it is. Alice kind of saved them. What's next? I think a lot of this has to be going on in Barry's head and for the people over there, because you don't want to have any period of time in which your next game is not ready to go. When Labyrinth is done, Barrels' next game will be on the line immediately. Same thing with Spooky. When Looney Tunes and Texas Chainsaw are done. Evil Dead will be on the line the next day. There's not going to be like months waiting, burning money, lighting money on fire. So yeah, so a lot of you out there, I don't understand why it's hard to comprehend how easy it would be for Stern to do this, how embarrassed Stern is that they let this IP go, and how much money there is to make even if they cut Barry a royalty on every game sold. It could be a win-win. I saw some people out there saying it would be a lose-lose. No, no, no, no, no. It would be a win-win. All right, so there's that. When is Jersey Jack Pinball going to learn? I am in the Avatar Owners Club thread right now. Guess how many pages the Avatar Owners Club thread is as of today? This game has been out for a few months now. It's been streamed. The code is pretty much done. There's nothing new coming to this game that's going to change people's minds. The Avatar Owners Club is only five pages long. There is less enthusiasm for this game than Elton John, than The Godfather, than Toy Story 4. This game is shaping up to be one of the softest launches in the history of Jersey Jack. And how are we here? After 11 years, when is Jersey Jack Pinball going to actually listen to feedback? And there's one thing they have to do now. They have to change who's making decisions. They keep the same players on the field every single game and they expect different results. Jack Guarnari, we love that you started this company, but you've made some of the worst marketing decisions four titles in a row. You have set your company up for failure and nobody seemingly had any power to say, what are we doing? Why are we making Toy Story 4? Why are we making The Godfather? Why is it Elton John? and heck, why Avatar? This is not a popular theme right now with the pinball buying demographic. Culturally, it's never hit. James Cameron wanted this to be his Star Wars. It's not. There are so many other themes that would have sold so much better. Heck, Big Trouble in Little China would have sold more. Karate Kid. Heck, Bloodsport. I mean this If you just made Bloodsport there more people into that than Avatar I mean it Within this buying demographic the last Starfighter I know right This weird niche movie from the 80s. Even that, even that makes people more emotionally connected. I'm just a kid from the trailer park. If that's all you think you are, that's all you're ever going to be. Even that is a more memorable line than anything you hear in Avatar. So what now? Does this just become what Jersey Jack is. You know, this company that is owned by Brett and Leonard and Jack's sort of like an employee now making all these marketing decisions. Ken Cromwell, it's not his fault. He has nothing to work with. He's got nothing to work with. He did his job. He invited the media over. He was a gracious host. Tom Capero over there did a great job walking us through the factory. So did Eric Minier. You know, Mark Seiden is a really nice guy. They did a great job. They did everything they could to invite people over there and see their latest game. The only problem is their latest game just isn't magical. It's just not creating any moments of wow. And in the current pinball marketplace, it's a lead balloon. If you bought one of these avatar CEs, which seemingly nobody wants to admit they bought it, right? It's so weird to me. How are there only five pages of an avatar owners club. Didn't some of you order it, right? If they're gonna make a thousand of these things, how is there not at least like 50 pages of people just discussing the game? I mean, no one's even discussing the LE, which is out there and newsflash all you CE owners, that's pretty much the exact same game you're gonna get. If you think this UV ink that doesn't really work is gonna change your experience with avatar, you're solely mistaken. So after you're done looking at your beautiful topper and your beautiful armor, what are you left with? I'm telling you, you're left with a game that's going to lose you $5,000 in one year. And look, the next game for me, I would love to say everything rides on the next game. I think this is just a prime example of what happens when a company has no consequences, when a company has no accountability, and nobody is seemingly responsible. We've got now four games in a row that have been sales sort of flops, that have been underwhelming, that have been disappointing. The secondhand market on each of those games is abysmal, and nobody's accountable. Nobody got fired, right? Nobody got fired. If I walked into my job and handed four terrible ideas in a row into our biggest client and we needed a hit, I would be let go. But everybody at Jersey Jack is too comfortable. They're all acting too secure because the money's there. And in the end, what Brett is going to realize, what he's going to realize, I know they have a lot of hyperbole when they talk to us when we went over there. But in the end, he's going to realize that they did not succeed in creating games that have legacy, creating games that are masterpieces, creating games that people are gonna look back on very fondly. And they have had every opportunity to do so. And look, only five pages of people that will admit to being an owner of Avatar. The game is done already. It's dead on arrival. And now we wait for February or March when we're gonna see Harry Potter. Is it going to be everything we expect it to be? If history has shown us anything, Jersey Jack expectations have always been very high with each new game, and they've underwhelmed us. I don't know. It's the same people, right? They didn't bring in a new designer. This is not going to be a Steve Ritchie game. You know, Eric's had enthusiasm around Guns N' Roses and Pirates. Godfather was abysmal. So we'll see what happens. But I'm just sort of like, why? Why can't Jersey Jack get its act together? Why can't it figure stuff out? Why can't they make pinball moves that are adding more magic and moments of wow into this hobby? All right. So speaking of moments of wow, like wow, some more Godzilla black and white accessories that are kind of black and white. For some reason, it's really hard when Stern tries to do something in black and white to actually remove the color. Because remember, black and white are not colors. the colors are the yellow the red the green all the other stuff in the game and so yesterday they released the accessories for Godzilla there's inner art blades there's armor there's a topper there's a shooter rod and I think if you buy it all you're somewhere in the vicinity of like a couple thousand dollars extra to make your black and white Godzilla a whole bunch of sepia a whole bunch of grays and whites and blacks. Not all of them sync up with each other. And I don't know, you know, I just don't know what to tell you. I mean, I saw it yesterday. And for some reason, I think the topper is more black and white than the photos. And it just makes me wonder what goes on with these marketing departments. You got a black and white game. Why are we going to show the topper with all these colors? Why is it going to look like it's blue here and it's yellow over here and it's green over here black and white i just want to see black and white i don't want to see all this other stuff but i think the launch of this game and i think you know people not being happy with the trans light coloring has never been resolved and you guys know this right sometimes a game can just have like one headache issue and because of that nobody wants to deal with it and I think that's what's happened with Godzilla Black and White. It just like felt like a compromised game. Like it should have been in L.E. and then it wasn't. They should have been able to sync up all the tones in the game and they didn't. You know, a couple other games I've been looking at recently is like John Wick owners, right? John Wick, people who own the game, hardly anybody, but people who do own it are now saying, hey, maybe it's more fun than X-Men. Hey, maybe this game is great. Hey, this game is something I'm going to own forever. Well, you better want to own John Wick LE forever because I love that people think they're only going to lose $3,000 on their John Wick LE. I guarantee you by the end of this year, 2025, because this year is almost over. By the end of next year, 2025, you're going to see John Wick LEs for $8,000 to $8,500. You're going to lose about $5,000 on that game. We're just in a different pinball world now, people. you know a game that launches with no demand a game that launches with incomplete code and also a game that launches with so much controversy and apathy the way John Wick did And no one cares Nobody going to buy it. Nobody's going to buy it new in box. And nobody's going to care if you own one. They're not going to care about your praising the game because you're clearly biased. And I think it's going to just be one of these games where people will play it on location. It'll still have people curious like Venom, but most people are just not going to buy it. I think it was a big misstep for Stern. I think they learned the lesson. I think they're going to lean more into nostalgia and not try to do current IP where they think this is going to bring in like new audiences into pinball. And all that really did was alienate most of the people who buy Stern machines. All right, let me just close this show with X-Men and I'm in the thread. And I wish the thread wasn't what the thread is. The thread now is a troubleshoot thread. And that is where you don't want to end up, right? The game's only been out for like two to three months and everyone's talking about issues and how to fix the game. And if there's anything, you know, you don't want to ever be is in a position where the things you're trying to fix are hardware, right? If it's software, that's one thing. Everybody will be patient and wait for a game's software to get good. But if people are pulling the game apart, drilling playfields, having to like bend wire forms, having to try to add, you know, washers here and washers there, and the geometry is not right, and the auto plunger doesn't work, and the sentinel hands are problematic, and the ball is getting hung up here. It's just like when you open up a thread like that, that is the ultimate red flag because for anyone out there thinking about grabbing one you know they haven't fixed any of that stuff at the factory it is the easiest sort of red flag to just kind of like avoid the game right now and again we're in a pinball market now where there's just no room for this this game clearly needed more time to be developed but they didn't lower the price right so it's like for 13 grand for an LE and you've got these issues. And remember, they made the LEs first. Like that seemed like a good move until they had issues. Now it doesn't seem like a good move. And there's just no excuse for this, right? There's no excuse at these prices. Nothing should ever be rushed to market. It just should never have happened. And it happened. And now here we are. And, you know, I was watching this video about the watch collecting industry and it made me think a lot about pinball. And the ultimate summary from this guy was what's happened in a lot of the watch world is some of the brands that lost their secondhand value. There's like a Frank Mueller watch. It's like the company did weird stuff. It didn't want people scalping its products or adding diamonds to its watches. So it started to go after the dealers. And then all of a sudden, nobody wanted to buy one because there wasn't much resale value on it. And then all of a sudden, the entire market on a Frank Mueller watch collapsed. And it got me thinking about pinball. How long do we think we're going to go? If there's no secondhand market that's healthy on a Stern game, on a Jersey Jack game, on a spooky game, on a CGC Pulp Fiction, if everyone's buying pinball and losing thousands of dollars on every single game you buy, how long do you think it's going to last? I mean, there is no healthy secondhand market in pinball anymore. Across the board, only Metallica LE, one game, one game has a healthy secondhand return for the buyer. And so now pinball is the most it's ever been. Everybody's losing so much money on every game. The world is inflated. Everyone's spending a lot more money on things they really need. I'm worried about this hobby. I'm worried about this hobby. Pinball prices are inflated, so they're never going to come down. This is it. Like, they're never going to come down. The rest of the world, you're going to start to see prices correct. Hopefully, right? Hopefully. Maybe not hopefully. But yet pinball is stuck here in the super expensive realm, something you don't really need. And if you buy it new in box, you're going to lose thousands of dollars. I mean, I don't have to be a rocket scientist or an economist to tell you that's a recipe for disaster. Someone needs to wake up, either lower prices and sell directly to consumers. I mean that. Someone needs to wake up and say, hey, if we just sell all of our games directly to consumers, I can pass on those savings to the customer. Why does Spooky need distros to sell 700 games? Why? They could just sell them all directly and sell them for much less money. Why does Stern need to sell directly? Why does Stern need distributors to sell back to the future? Why? I'm just saying something's got to give somewhere. Something's got to give somewhere. And it's a weird place now too, because I don't even think we need to cut out the distros. It's just weird now because they're losing too. Like nobody's winning now. The distros are sitting on unsold inventory. They're not happy. Distros wish that LEs were 85 or $9,000. They don't want them to be 13 or $15,000. They're not making that much more. And yet it's that much harder now for them to sell games. It's that much harder for them to attract people into pinball. And then they're sitting on all these unsold pros and premiums. They're not happy. Consumers are not happy. Manufacturers have to be nervous. All of it, all of it needs to be reevaluated. And I don't know why nobody's doing it. And like, we're the only pinball podcast that like kind of talks about this on a weekly basis. Everyone else. How can you avoid this? How can you avoid this? I don't understand it. Everybody, thank you so much for tuning in today. We'll be back. Maybe Cuphead in a couple of days. We shall see. Kaneda out. Bye.

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 4d40231e-0946-4718-8dd4-bc42739ea3a8*