# Silverball Chronicles Ep 43: Are Barrels (Of) Fun?

**Source:** The Pinball Network  
**Type:** video  
**Published:** 2025-03-03  
**Duration:** 84m 51s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bFH34IcEnY

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## Analysis

Silverball Chronicles hosts David Dennis and Ron discuss Barrels of Fun, a new pinball manufacturer founded by David Van Es (former Spooky Pinball creative director) and Brian Savage (founder of Fun! Publications). The episode traces Van Es's background in film production and licensing work at Spooky, and Savage's experience with collectibles and events marketing. Barrels of Fun is praised for launching ahead of schedule with zero leaks and no drama—a stark contrast to failed startups like Deep Root. The hosts also cover extensive listener feedback about their previous Hanken Pinball episode, including details about how David Hanken secured Empire Strikes Back licensing by simply asking George Lucas and offering him a free machine.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Barrels of Fun launched under 2 years ago and has delivered all games ahead of schedule with zero leaks — _David Dennis states: 'it's been just under 2 years since they launched their company and their first licensed game' and 'zero leaks that is the most impressive part'_
- [HIGH] David Van Es worked as creative director and media specialist at Spooky Pinball starting around 2013, traveling from Texas to Wisconsin regularly — _David Dennis cites Van Es's LinkedIn profile and podcast appearances, stating he 'worked in video production and eventually became post-production producer' before joining Spooky in 2013_
- [HIGH] David Van Es was instrumental in securing Spooky's recent licenses including Halloween, Looney Tunes, Rick and Morty, Scooby-Doo, and Evil Dead — _Dennis states: 'he was the major reason that Spooky had secured a lot of the license that they have recently released such as Halloween the Looney Tunes Rick and Morty...Evil Dead'_
- [MEDIUM] David Hanken secured Empire Strikes Back licensing by personally contacting George Lucas and offering him a free Hanken Pinball machine — _Listener Cassandra and Steve from Australia provided email stating: 'David Hanken contacted George Lucas personally and just asked him for permission and it was granted and the easy and the payment was a pinball for George'_
- [MEDIUM] Hanken Pinball was the first to feature a free games calculator built into their software, beating Williams to the innovation — _Listener Cassandra and Steve claim: 'they say I met with David yesterday and he confirmed that Hanken did have a free games calculator built into their software he was completely unaware that he may have been the first to have it or there was any dispute about who came up with the idea'_
- [HIGH] Brian Savage founded Fun! Publications in 1993, which became a multi-million dollar company producing 34 international conventions and over 450 magazine issues on collectibles — _Dennis states via Savage's background research: 'he started a thing called Fun! Publications in 1993 fun exclamation...it ended up becoming a multi-million dollar company...they produced over 34 international conventions...and over 450 magazine issues'_
- [HIGH] David Van Es has over 20 years of media experience in film production, post-production, branding, product development, marketing, and licensing — _Dennis cites Van Es's LinkedIn profile: 'has over 20 years of media experience in film production post-production branding product development marketing licensing and project management'_
- [MEDIUM] There were staff changes at Spooky Pinball during the pandemic when Corwin Emery (Bug) took over — _Dennis references pandemic-era changes at Spooky: 'there were a lot of changes at Spooky...Bug took over yeah that was like...Corwin Emery who is the the son of...Mr. Emery he had sort of taken over'_

### Notable Quotes

> "pinball is hard...they have too many parts there's too much stuff you got to get parts from everywhere you got to get parts from Asia you got to get parts from Canada you got to get parts from the States you got to put them together they all have to be the same"
> — **Ron**, ~25:00
> _Sets up the context for why Barrels of Fun's execution is impressive—manufacturing complexity is the core challenge in pinball_

> "zero leaks that is the most impressive part...that's pretty amazing"
> — **David Dennis**, ~18:00
> _Emphasizes Barrels of Fun's unprecedented secrecy and operational discipline compared to industry norms_

> "David Hanken contacted George Lucas personally and just asked him for permission and it was granted and the easy and the payment was a pinball for George"
> — **Cassandra and Steve (listener email)**, ~7:00
> _Reveals surprising simplicity of high-value IP licensing negotiations in pinball's early era; contrasts with modern licensing complexity_

> "the North American manufacturers really blew it on that one didn't they...literally he got it for a pinball machine brutal"
> — **David Dennis**, ~10:00
> _Commentary on missed opportunities by major manufacturers in licensing negotiation strategy_

> "Pinball is challenging in the best way it's an intricate mix of art mechanics and physics similar to running a film production"
> — **David Van Es**, ~22:00
> _Van Es's philosophy on pinball design, emphasizing multidisciplinary complexity and creative satisfaction_

> "everyone's just like okay like stop with the stupid stickers just come out what you're going to come out with...just because you had all these other failures and people were just I think there was a low level of expectation about any new pinball company"
> — **David Dennis**, ~28:00
> _Captures community fatigue with teaser campaigns and failed startups like Deep Root, explaining why Barrels' execution stands out_

> "he was the major reason that Spooky had secured a lot of the license that they have recently released such as Halloween the Looney Tunes Rick and Morty...Evil Dead"
> — **David Dennis**, ~35:00
> _Identifies Van Es's critical role in Spooky's licensing success and his value as a business asset_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Barrels of Fun | company | New pinball manufacturer founded by David Van Es and Brian Savage; launched under 2 years ago with first licensed game; praised for delivering ahead of schedule with zero leaks |
| David Van Es | person | Co-founder of Barrels of Fun; former creative director and media specialist at Spooky Pinball (2013+); Australian with 20+ years media/film/licensing experience; instrumental in securing Spooky's major licenses (Halloween, Looney Tunes, Rick and Morty, etc.) |
| Brian Savage | person | Co-founder of Barrels of Fun; chief business officer; founder of Fun! Publications (1993); Baylor University graduate; background in sales, marketing, collectibles, and destination event marketing |
| Spooky Pinball | company | Pinball manufacturer where David Van Es worked as creative director; underwent staff changes during pandemic when Corwin Emery (Bug) took over; benefited from Van Es's licensing expertise |
| David Hanken | person | Founder of Hanken Pinball (Australian manufacturer); known for Empire Strikes Back licensed game; secured licensing by directly contacting George Lucas; humble, shy personality |
| Hanken Pinball | company | Australian pinball manufacturer; created Empire Strikes Back (licensed); known for Shark game with notable artwork by 19-year-old; possibly first to implement free games calculator in software; well-regarded in Australia |
| Deep Root | company | Failed pinball startup known for extensive teaser campaigns ('every house needs a pinball,' 'Ferrari for Kia prices') that ultimately imploded; left community skeptical of new manufacturers |
| Fun! Publications | company | Founded by Brian Savage in 1993; multi-million dollar company specializing in destination marketing, collectibles conventions; produced 34+ international conventions, 450+ magazine issues, 500+ limited edition GI Joe figures, 150+ limited edition Transformers |
| Silverball Chronicles | podcast | Podcast hosted by David Dennis and Ron; received listener feedback praising their Hanken Pinball episode; has Patreon tiers with merch (t-shirts, stickers); maintains silverballswag.com store |
| George Lucas | person | Granted Hanken Pinball permission to create Empire Strikes Back licensed game in exchange for a free Hanken machine |
| Corwin Emery (Bug) | person | Son of Mr. Emery; took over leadership role at Spooky Pinball during pandemic; associated with staff changes |
| Rochester Pinball Collective | organization | Pinball venue mentioned as location (349 West Commercial Street, East Rochester, New York, suite 2965) |
| David Dennis | person | Co-host of Silverball Chronicles podcast; podcast historian and interviewer; based in Atlantic Canada; maintains ethical standards in episode selection |
| Ron | person | Co-host of Silverball Chronicles; based in Northeast (upstate New York/Canada); frequent co-commentator; also co-hosts Slam Tilt Podcast |
| International Film School of Australia (IFSA) | organization | School where David Van Es studied; mentioned as educational background |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Barrels of Fun startup execution and business model, David Van Es career trajectory and licensing expertise, Hanken Pinball history and Australian manufacturing, Pinball manufacturing complexity and supply chain challenges
- **Secondary:** IP licensing negotiations and George Lucas deal, Failed pinball startups (Deep Root) and community skepticism, Spooky Pinball leadership changes during pandemic, Brian Savage's collectibles and events marketing background

### Sentiment

**Positive** (0.78) — Hosts express clear admiration for Barrels of Fun's execution (zero leaks, ahead of schedule delivery, no drama), contrasting favorably with industry norms. Hanken Pinball segment is nostalgic and celebratory. Some light skepticism about 'selling out' by covering Barrels, but hosts defend the choice. Overall tone is enthusiastic about both companies' achievements.

### Signals

- **[business_signal]** Licensing landscape asymmetry: North American manufacturers (Williams era) failed to pursue opportunities (Empire Strikes Back) that Australian manufacturer Hanken successfully negotiated by direct IP holder contact (confidence: medium) — Dennis commentary: 'The North American manufacturers really blew it on that one...literally he got it for a pinball machine brutal'
- **[business_signal]** Barrels of Fun achieved rare operational milestone: zero leaks from stealth startup phase, all games delivered ahead of schedule (confidence: high) — Dennis: 'zero leaks that is the most impressive part' and 'they have delivered all of their games ahead of schedule'
- **[community_signal]** Silverball Chronicles proactively solicited listener feedback and correspondence, receiving detailed emails from Hanken Pinball enthusiasts with historical documentation and clarifications (confidence: high) — Dennis mentions receiving 'lengthy email' from Cassandra/Steve 'Down Under' with sources, and feedback from Grant King in Australia about Hanken's recognition
- **[sentiment_shift]** Pinball community was fatigued by new manufacturer teaser campaigns (Deep Root era) and skeptical of startups; Barrels of Fun overcame this through silent execution and on-time delivery (confidence: high) — Dennis: 'people were burned out from stuff like Deep Root...there was a low level of expectation about any new pinball company...just come out with what you're going to come out with we don't want you know we're sick of this'
- **[design_philosophy]** David Van Es's approach to pinball emphasizes multidisciplinary integration of art, mechanics, physics, and film production methodology; views licensing relationships as core to design process (confidence: medium) — Van Es quote: 'Pinball is challenging in the best way it's an intricate mix of art mechanics and physics similar to running a film production'
- **[licensing_signal]** David Van Es was critical architect of Spooky Pinball's licensing deals for major IP (Halloween, Looney Tunes, Rick and Morty, Evil Dead); his departure may impact Spooky's future licensing capacity (confidence: high) — Dennis: 'he was the major reason that Spooky had secured a lot of the license...he was one of the sort of the people that kind of taught them how to play that game'
- **[market_signal]** Barrels of Fun's stealth launch and operational discipline contrasts sharply with industry trend of extended teaser campaigns; suggests new manufacturer strategy shift (confidence: medium) — Dennis notes sticker teasers appeared suddenly but with minimal details, followed by actual product delivery—opposite of Deep Root's prolonged hype cycle
- **[personnel_signal]** David Van Es departed Spooky Pinball during pandemic-era leadership transition (Corwin Emery/Bug took over) to co-found Barrels of Fun with Brian Savage (confidence: high) — Dennis: 'David Van Es left...there were a lot of changes at Spooky...Bug took over...that's when David started planning something big with Brian Savage'
- **[technology_signal]** Hanken Pinball possibly pioneered free games calculator built into software, predating Williams implementation—historical innovation attribution unclear (confidence: low) — Listener Cassandra/Steve: 'Hanken did have a free games calculator built into their software he was completely unaware that he may have been the first to have it or there was any dispute'
- **[licensing_signal]** Historical licensing negotiation: David Hanken secured Empire Strikes Back permission by contacting George Lucas directly and offering a free Hanken Pinball machine as payment (confidence: medium) — Listener email from Cassandra/Steve: 'David Hanken contacted George Lucas personally and just asked him for permission...the payment was a pinball for George'

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## Transcript

[Music] the pinball network is online launching silver ball sure perfect he's got the clap he's got the clap he's got the clap clap clap clap clap clap clap he's got the clap an ACDC song I hate oh [Music] hello everyone I'm David Dennis and this is silverball Chronicles with me this month like every month is Ron snowed in howlet how you doing not yet that'll be tomorrow supposedly woo it's been cold up here in the Northeast yeah it's been wild for us we don't have like a lot of snow like we haven't had any of those epic snow storms where like uh 40 cm falls down in one like 2hour period I don't know what centimeters are oh I don't I guess I got to look that up right that's like a foot and a half maybe come on you got to use the proper terminology America 15 Ines oh okay so like a foot yeah like a lot of a lot of a lot of snow just sort of appears and then you wake up and use your snow blower and get out we haven't had any of those but it's been cold it's been like- 22 which is probably like- four or five for you guys so does every Canadian have a snowblower pretty much yeah that's sort of like a it's like the houses come with them I think yeah it's like so when I uh moved I used to live in Toronto I sold my house there and I moved to Atlantic Canada so when that happens you have a bunch of like Toronto house sell money and you buy a lot of like lower cost East Coast uh home so you got some left over money and I assigned some of that money for a really nice Honda lawnmower and a really nice Yamaha snowblower I literally took some of the profit from my home and set it aside for that so you're in the slums of the Atlantic the SL yes the slums of Atlantic Canada just brutal just brutal so you just got back from California though so that must be really tough I I was told that it was cold for California it was in the 70s the first two days before it kind of went downhill wow yeah that was nice though yeah that's like 21 degrees i' i' I'd kill a man for 21 degrees I'd kill you Ron for 21 degrees oh my and how did you finish over there at indisk it never drains in Southern California I I finished fourth in the the one tournament whoa hey that's pretty good and didn't qualify for anything else so there you go well that's fine didn't you win last year didn't you win Classics or something no no I was that was two years ago I was like second wow good for you good for you I wish I was that good I played in a tournament back like the I think the last tournament before provincials or something and it didn't it didn't go great I I finished like way out of qualifying and this is just me just rolling in it was not good provincials where's my podcast mate on my other podcast slam podcast provisionals for some reason so when we were uh so that brings us up I co-hosted with you guys over there on uh the slam tilt podcast mhm which I was told was the highest rated slam tilt podcast in the last two years oh really okay yeah I I was told specifically that I popped a number I am the hash theed draw when it comes to podcasts I always draw a big number and uh on there we played a lot of fun games so go back and listen to that I think it was like what episode 5,612 and a half and a half I think just go to slam tail podcast.com you'll see it there yeah it's a good one it's a good one when uh when we were recording that and then Bruce did say provisionals I did hear it and I'm like I'm just going to let him roll I'm just going to let it roll with that and then you name the episode provisional winners and I thought that was yeah hilarious yeah I didn't say anything when he said that either cuz I was just like I think he said that wrong I'm pretty sure he did did you go back twice did you did you like wait a second did you do one of those it just during the editing process you know I noticed that he said it wrong so everybody knows we've sold out Ron we are huge sellouts which is why we got into this uh you can see us sell out as much as you want over at patreon.com silverball Chronicles and we've had a few new individuals join us on the patreon since our last episode so I would love to thank them personally for joining us and they said I love that Ron but that David Dennis guy they're like I here for Ron everyone else is dead I want to say he says out in a weird way I don't get it that's right I want to say uh thank you to killer Kim for joining us thank you for uh Darby uh Darby s for joining us and Brandon L you guys kicking in and probably the person with the best name ever McBain I'm McBain they've joined us mcbaine has joined us McBain has joined us on the prole crony level and if I Haven he has come here to lead not to read that's right and uh Nick H thank you for joining us if we haven't thanked you for joining we have a a few people have joined us at the $3 a month crony level which is just to say thank you giving us some of your hard-earned money we really appreciate that now a few people jumped up to the uh $6 a month premium crony level very original Pro premium and elitist the $6 a month they get into the chat room and the Discord so they can ask us questions and interact and talk about all of the shenanigans that are going on in the world today and in pinball uh we also sometimes we'll talk about upcoming topics and the biggest reason to jump up to $6 a month is the Early adree Access to silverball Chronicles before it goes live in the general feeds you also get a sticker after 3 months Ron what did you do with your sticker um I put it in a little area I have in in my my basement where I just have nothing but stickers the stickers is that on the door no it's by the TA the streaming table the streaming table okay it was just a big slab of wood there it's like this is a perfect place for it boom stickers yeah yeah have you been doing a lot of streaming lately I have not no no you should show off those stickers show off that silver ball Chronicle stream the stickers gotcha that's it that's it but if you want to be an elitist you can jump up to the $20 a month tier that is our top tier after 3 months you get a silverball Chronicle t-shirt and we did have a few individuals join us at That level this month so wow we thank you so much for that you can also interact with us uh on Facebook at facebook.com/ silverball Chronicles and we always ask that if you can give us a five-star review or the highest amount of stars or thumbs up or check marks that would be very appreciative because it helps other people find us in the algorithm and helps manipulate the masses to somehow enjoy our banter and hopefully Apple will update the podcast correctly unlike my podcast lately the slam til podcast yeah the last episode didn't show up for two days I opened a ticket with apple and then the next morning the episode just showed up and then they responded to the ticket that night basically saying like Oh no you're you're you're episodes updated thank you and they closed the ticket like what why wasn't it updated like what was the issue that's right I hate Apple you can also grab a t-shirt over at silverball swag.com we have a couple of design choices to choose I love t-shirts you do you got a couple of those t-shirts do you wear them to bed right especially the ones that say Ron's name first they do I made sure the new one said your name first because I know that keeps you up at night our last episode this was a uh this one went over a lot better than I had expected we got a lot of feedback on this a lot of hankering for hanking a lot lot of hankering for some hanking like we legitimately got a lot of uh feedback on this both like formally and informally from uh like just people messaging us through uh the Discord channels or uh messaging us on uh on Facebook it's it's been it's been pretty wild uh Grant King he uh he's a regular sort of Reacher outer doesn't he doesn't reach around he reaches out to all of us and uh I believe he's an Aussie and he sent a how's that music video to us over from uh from Australia's YouTube which I assume is the same as regular you upside down yeah oh oh and he said great to see the recognition that hanken deserves they put Aussies on the map when it came to pinball Manufacturing in Australia they also had a big play in cocktail and arcade machines here in Australia and he says thank you for putting out Mr pinball because he is a very well-known pin pinball brand and has a great reputation here in Australia anyone in pinball knows that name we also had some uh some feedback here uh from Steve and Cassandra from Down Under they wrote a lengthy email and provided a bunch of sources yes and their email is literally Hank and pinball so you know it's you know it's them exactly now they are very good close friends to David hanen and I guess hanen pinball has played a large role in their life now the coolest thing here is Ron the game that you played at Expo were Cassandra and Steve's games HH yeah those games to Rob Burke and now it's at pastimes permanently I believe they included a couple of photos of them having a couple of pints in front of their uh in front of their cars their holding that's what I'm looking for holding couple of I it's a lengthy email I don't want to read the whole thing but I did take a couple of bits out that I thought were really really cool remember that amazing art that we spoke about on shark yeah well the shark artwork was done by a 19-year-old who happened to be the accountant's son yeah the the accountant Hank pinball accountant's son and what an imagination he must have had says Cassandra and Steve and no joke and they answered a question I've always wondered which is you know hanken did Empire Strikes Back and it is licensed they didn't like just do it illegally or whatever and I always wondered how the heck did they get the licensing for that and no one else did well David hen contacted George Lucas personally and just asked him for permission and it was granted and the easy and the payment was a pinball for George he got his WR pinball that was it man it really the North American manufacturers really blew it on that one didn't they I guess they didn't they didn't ask cuz they figured be too expensive I mean and literally he got it for a pinball machine brutal so you hear that other pinball manufacturers just call the uh call Lucas well not anymore but just call someone up hey can we do this we'll give you a game wow the funny thing is I think they gave Lucas a game for uh the Star Wars video game too he got like one of the uh the sit down model oh yeah he got he got his own personalized one I would be surprised if that's all they needed to give him like here you go like cool so Dennis Lily the how's that guy the how's that guy right so how's that refers to what a bowler says when they think that they have got the better out of getting the ball past the bat and knocking over the wickets you know those like wood poles MH so they turn to the Empire and say how's that and the Empire rules it if the player is out or not it's like getting three strikes apparently in baseball and that's the Umpire sounds like you're saying the Empire said the Empire so what happens is is the bowler knocks the wickets down he turns over he goes how's that he what do you think that right and then he says something and I guess that they say it with such Vigor and uh such ump that it be it became sort of his his thing super cool man oh man really good feedback really good feedback now the other thing that you had asked was about the free game calculator built into the software yeah cuz that was on every flyer and I'm like how did how did I never hear of this before yeah did they rip off uh or did they invent before that before Williams did they they beat Williams to the punch so this is what Stephen Cassandra say they say I met with David yesterday and he confirmed that hanken did have a free games calculator built into their software he was completely unaware that he may have been the first to have it or there was any dispute about who came up with the idea years later very interesting he's quite a humble person anyway how cool is that he like they invented something and they're like uh whatever but that's just like Australians and Canadians right we're just sort of like we don't need to tell everybody when we do something unlike some other nation that I know America and Dr John Dr John also reached out and he says thank you for covering hanen I've been trying to get David hanen on a chat for years but he's quite a shy man just a few things to fill in about the Australian things Cricket he says is enjoyed by the majority of the world except for the Americas mhm uh which is changing so we are having specifically in Canada we're having a lot of uh an immigration boom and a lot of that is coming from Southeast Asia and and Europe a lot of those countries are are coming a lot of those those immigrants are coming together and they all playing Cricket they're they are playing Cricket there's Cricket in my town and it's like middle of nowhere in like Canada it's like they're playing Cricket I never it it always confuses me the guy throws the ball and he kind of it seems like it's baseball but it's not he also describes all the things about Cricket for us because quite frankly we I don't understand it quite that much I know there's different types like there's a type that can be played over the course of several days like a full game and then there's others that are more timed or something now a lot of Holden cars apparently have twl abbreviations for their model descriptions which is like where that FJ comes from which is of course one of those old iconic cars and they really don't make much sense but there are tons of these initials among Holden cars now you know and you complained about the regulator on scuba diving right so we were talking about shark and how there were like this extra thing floating around well I guess scuba diving is more of a thing in Australia than it probably is in Upstate New York that yeah I that that would make sense he says that the regulator is the thing you breathe through which I did know and this regulates the pressure leaving the tank into into you to breathe and they also have a second regulator for someone else to use if they run out of air whilst diving and they call it an octopus which is why that other one in the art was floating around remember we crapped on that we're like why does it got two Regulators I also love how they use whilst I don't use that enough whilst whilst whilst yeah we just in in Canada we just say while yeah while driving yeah yeah we just say it kind of that way mhm that's what we say but I feel like whilst is better it sounds fancier sounds like you're more intelligent it does it does which is funny for an Australian o wow not very nice mate I what it's all [Music] about all right shall we jump into today's topic uh I thought we were just reading mail for the entire episode no that was long that was long actually that took a while mhm so everybody who complains about the banter being too long in the first of the episode well you know what it's not banter though this is actually information this is pretty legit like how else would you know that they got the licensing for Empire Strikes Back by just asking George Lucas hey George hello uh my name is David henen I'm I'm Australian pinball manufacturer we'd like to make an Empire Strikes Back game uh wonder if it's okay well what's in it for me well we'll give you one of the games for free sure okay you had me at free you had me at free [Laughter] game all righty have you ever heard the saying pinball is hard yes I've heard that well the team at barrels of fun hasn't and they've decided to smash on ahead and impress pretty much everyone in Pinball it's been just under 2 years since they launched their company and their first licensed game oh wow so here's a disclaimer cuz I like to be as ethical and I like to be as above board as possible you are very ethical you might be the most ethical person I know pretty B that's that's pretty bad you don't you don't know enough good people you spend too much time at the Rochester pinball Collective which is located at 349 West Commercial Street East Rochester New York a suite number 2965 yeah okay thanks thanks for that Brian Savage who is the chief business officer of barrels of fun reached out to us at silverball Chronicles gmail.com and asked if we would put together an episode about barrels of fun naturally uh I was confused but I was humbled that somebody actually cares about us and sees us as a uh positive voice in pinball or something but I was skeptical and I figured I was being played I did have a chat with Brian as to what he wanted he was like oh let's do an interview I'd love to I'd love to you know get us cemented in the you know in the history and the Ze ice of pinball and I'm like ah it's not really what we do we don't really do interviews as I thought about it after uh our chat I thought man it would be pretty good to add something new uh because we've been gone we've gone back quite a bit here in the last little while to like older older brands and things like that and I thought it' be kind of neat to to dive into barrels of fun I thought it would be a good break uh what about you Ron do you do you feel like we are uh we're promoting or selling out or anything um it's it's pretty early in the company's history to to do an episode I I would think that they have a lot more cool history coming up yeah but we usually wait until there's some sort of Scandal we usually wait until company explod that has not happened here exactly we we're looking for drama and Brian Brian is a fan I I met him at tpf actually was it tpf or xbo one or the other yeah so but I I still think barrels of fun deserves an episode especially since it gives us a really cool case study of a uh startup that has done it very differently than most and a manufacturer who has uh zero drama and has delivered all of their games ahead of schedule even more impressive zero leaks that is the most impressive part that's pretty amazing so I figured okay let's let's give it a go so here you go if you want to shoot us some emails and tell us we're sellout and we're uh promoting barrels of fun I've been upfront and an honest here in this situation of course we are Mavericks in pinball right mhm I've decided to uh make this episode with basically zero input from David and Brian Beyond asking a few questions for clarity sake around like production numbers and things like that so you ready to go I'm ready to go all right is pinball hard Ron Pinball's very hard Pinball's very hard why is it so hard to make Pinball it's pretty easy right you just design a Playfield you screw some things to it and then you just do that like a thousand times pinballs are too complicated they have too many parts there's too much stuff you got to get parts from everywhere you got to get parts from Asia you got to get parts from Canada you got to get parts from the States you got to put them together they all have to be the same you got a physical ball bouncing around got to deal with licensers who are apparently terrible in most cases pimp pretty hard so they always talk about like it's really easy to make one of something and it's like kind of hard to make 10 but to make like a 100 is exponentially like the end of the world and then of course it just gets worse and worse and worse as you as you ramp it up which is why I think when we look at like Stern and jjp to some cases uh some cases we're just like wow you know what they do is actually really impressive wouldn't you say I would say so what is David Van Es say about pinball who is David Van Es well before we get into that what David says is pinball is challenging in the best way it's an intricate mix of art mechanics and physics similar to running a Film Production the complexity is what makes it so rewarding whether you're a Creator or a player seeing fans from pinball Enthusiast to fans of the IP experience the game for the first time is the ultimate reward for all the hard work oh so nice and David vanis is Australian but I'm not going to do on Australian accent come on no it would just embarrassingly bad he he's and he's got that like really good Australian like laid-back Australian accent oh there's different types okay yeah man yeah it's just just like the states right you got different accents based on where you are in the country and if you're in a city or you're in the rural well how about Canada they have different they have like some places where they actually say out but others where they say out no it's all pretty much like that it just depends on how oat it gets oh how oot it gets I got it yeah so in Atlanta Canada we have hard RS oh we're going to the yeah hey my buddy and I we got in a car we went down to the bar and we had a t oh okay but I don't I don't I I I try to enunciate more for the podcast uh so you can understand me well do you remember hearing about this new company I remember hearing Rumblings about a new company there was like I want to say it was like pre you know just just around the pandemic there was all this like stuff on pinside about a new like oh there's this new company and they're ordering material but no everybody was really Cy right nobody ever gave any specific details which I thought was really really interesting did you did you bump into this well then the the stickers started showing up everywhere yeah so that came after all of a sudden these people received stickers that said barrels of fun and it had this really cool logo I this was like yeah I don't think it said barrels it just had the logo and it's like yeah I don't think it said and it said something like it's like an exclamation yeah an exclamation like it's coming it's coming and everyone's like H okay oh God people were burned out from stuff like deep root and all that like oh come on like this is about the time that deep root was like imploding I think it's important to get the backdrop here why the the debut was so impressive because everyone's just like okay like stop with the stupid stickers just come out what you're going to come out with we don't want you know we're sick of this and just just because you had all these other failures and people were just I think there was a low level of expectation about any new pinball company the best part is a low bar right just show your stuff and whatever it is and let you know stop stop stop stop joking around here right cuz the thing with deep root was they were like they were teasing all the time and this is coming and every every house needs a pinball and every pinball needs a house revolutionaries you know the construction and Etc yeah Ferrari pinball for Kia prices uhhuh right it was all like blah blah blah blah blah but I remember hearing um from an individual on pinside who who I thought was was crazy and pops up on on pinside quite regularly rambling which I think is pretty funny and he was like oh no this company is legit there's this company coming and they're buying things and things are getting underway and everybody's just like you're crazy nobody's nobody's paying attention to you crazy old man and then it sort of came out and it's like oh he was he was right but I mean everybody nobody was spilling the beans as to what was happening it's just things were happening but we hear it all the time the two major principles of this company are David Van Es and Brian Savage so you had asked the question who is David Van Es which by the way kind of a cool last name huh M David of the S well he was known through his association with spooky pinball yeah that was his big thing and he's he's a big lover of Pop Culture um I have a couple of links to some podcasts where David uh David and Brian uh are are guests they talk about that predominantly David and they talk about a lot of this stuff which is where I gleaned most of this information I also stole some of this information from their LinkedIn profile so it's quite possible that they lied on their LinkedIn profile but I whoes not who does that but it says that uh it says there that David has over 20 years of media experience in Film Production post production branding product development marketing licensing and project management from start to finish fin he originally went to the International Film School of Australia you're well aware of the International Film School of Australia or IFA I'm IFA I I just like that I believe he said he was the stunt man that's cool I would put that on my LinkedIn if that's true yeah so International Film School of Australia right up there with the New York Film School you know one of the biggest in the I don't know that's a lie it it could be it but after graduation and after goofing around in Australia for a little while he moved to boka ratan Flora which I mean who doesn't want to move to boka ratan Flora is it a boa Ron isn't that how you say it I thought it was boa Raton okay you can write Us in at um yeah silverwell Chronicles gmail.com and tell us is it Ron or ratton I thought it was poker Ron that's how I always said it but I'm probably wrong well I'm Canadian I don't I don't know I don't know but our education system is better than the American one so wow now he worked in video production and eventually became post- production producer for a company called the editing company very original name now this was around 2013 David began working with spooky pinball as their creative director and media specialist at the same time so he sort of had these two parallel kind of jobs hard worker I would say hard worker he would travel from Texas to Wisconsin on a regular basis in his car there and back like on weekends or on Long weekends or vacations and he would be working with him he actually spent a lot of time building a lot of uh relationships with licensers he was the major reason that spooky had secured a lot of the license that they have recently released such as Halloween the Looney Tunes Rick and Morty those other ones that I'm forgetting Scooby-Doo probably probably Evil Dead that doesn't mean that spooky is not going to be able to get licenses in the future without David Van Es now that he has left spooky however he was one of the sort of the people that kind of taught them how to play that game which I think is really really cool but then it was the pandemic that changed everything wasn't it Ron yeah it did changed everything and you remember uh the pinball Show episode 149.5 right that was their lowest rated one ever I think nope the pandemic Revisited episode am I am the hash the draw when it comes to ratings one of the best episodes ever done where we talked about the effects of the pandemic on pinball have you been on that show since then I I exactly well for David vanas it was time for a change as well and there were many changes at spooky at that time do you remember sort of the upheaval at spooky during the pandemic uh you mean when bug took over yeah that was like like like bug who is the who is um Corwin Emer cor yes Corwin Emy who is the the son of uh what's his name Emy Charlie Mr Emy he had sort of taken over and there were some changes among some of the staff and other people I don't know if that's a one way or the other that people are F you know I don't think there was any hert feelings but maybe there was I don't know but there were a lot of changes at spooky and I remember the Rumblings like people were like David Van Es left and people were shocked because he did a lot of the uh animation on their screens and quite frankly Spooky's animation was pretty good that's when David started planning something big with Brian Savage and who's Brian Savage Brian attended Baylor University in Texas majoring in Business Administration and ended up in sales and marketing Brian so Baylor University is that a university I should know uh I've heard of it okay I actually didn't know it was in Texas I just I remember it from more of a sports thing yeah that's a whole thing down there is like sports in the states yeah sports are great so he started a thing called Fun Publications in 1993 fun exclamation all capitals it ended up becoming a multi-million doll company specializing in destination marketing events and limited edition Collectibles so is it fair to say that uh Brian's a bit of a nerd uh because he's into Collectibles yeah I feel like that's a nerdy thing right so is is being a nerd cool these days is cool did that become cool when did that become cool like when all the comic book movies came out and all that ComicCon all that yeah I'd say like 20 20 2006 so all of a sudden nerds were cool okay yeah kind of around the time I would I would say maybe you know the Dark Knight Christopher Nolan Batman kind of that started it I think oh I'm Batman I think that that's around the time now they produced over 34 International conventions as destination marking specialists and they produced over 450 magazine issues on Collectibles and stuff they also developed over 500 limited edition GI Joe action figures and over 150 Limited Edition Transformers action figures ooh I wouldn't mind the Transformers that's really nerdy more than me the ey so when you think about like action figures and stuff like that I feel like that's a whole other thing yeah right I I would definitely like some Transformers yeah like Transformers were really cool Transformers were really big in the 80s I missed out on that when I was younger I had a buddy of mine who had tons of those see I'm old I have the Megatron uh gun cuz he's a gun yeah which was like a which was like a that was before that was like o and it doesn't even it doesn't have the orange thing at the end of the barrel to say it's not a gun either it's it's that old so that was really big and GI Jo's were really big in that like late 70s early ' 80s too that was really big thing and those have had a bit of a Resurgence I would say probably now but like action figure collecting is I think really cool in some ways but that's a whole sub genre but you can see that he tapped into that sort of generational Ze iist and there was a magazine and then you'd go to like conventions like I guess like a pinball convention that would be action figures and then they' have these special limited edition GI Jo's that's cool stuff but you don't just get those without relationships ran ended up coordinating with Hasbro as the lensee for over 25 years for gi. Joe and 12 years for those Transformer Brands and he was one or his company was one of the longest continuous license holders from Hasboro for that GI Joe collectors club and Transformers collectors that's that's wild like that's a that's a big license to hold on to he's a real American hero yes how did Brian meet David how did this this marriage come about well Brian says David and I met because he sold me a Doctor Who Pinball Machine from his collection actually I had to talk him out of it because it was one of the first editions with the doic moving topper I shamed him into selling it because my son was a huge Doctor Who fan at the time so we had talked about Doctor Who the doic topper yes exterminate exterminate yeah we did that in uh in our mechs that made us episode proba probably right like Doctor Who's a pretty cool like original neat design it's got some really cool bits and pieces to it and um Doctor Who was like if if Star Trek and Star Wars was not nerdy enough for you yeah yeah you watched Doctor Who who I I actually didn't watch Doctor Who yeah see I didn't know Doctor Who existed until like 200 like 10 which is pretty wild considering that he had been on the air for like 40 years at that point it's it's it's neat but it's it's weird it's like British sci-fi which if like British comedy is weird just just extrapolate that to to British uh sci-fi so they began a a business relationship around this time it was this whole uh thing that this is I missed out on this it's called The reimport Craze do you remember this uh yeah you just get all these machines back yeah it like 2000s 2010 like the industry had collapsed and and what was happening was like people were buying a bunch of pinballs from like Europe and then they'd ship them back to North America and then switch them back over to American or a lot of that was with the Williams stuff because if you remember from our Williams episode who was one of their biggest Distributors the German distributor and and Williams would send a lot of their their early production machines you know stuff that would have stuff in it that was taken out later they would go to like Germany so then a lot of these Got reimported Back into the US so in your coin box if you ever notice that you have like a button that has Deutch marks on it or uh or any of that stuff you you likely have a reimport uh machine I've seen a few of these em machines that have been re-imports that have had like European coins on them like uh what were the one like Crohn's I saw a buddy of mine had one that had like a a a coin slot button for crones I'm trying to think if I still have any re Imports cuz I used to have my no fear I think was German yeah have no fear in the Germans yeah yeah the knocker didn't work because it was disconnected and then I found out that was a common practice there where they just unplug it they didn't like knockers for some reason everybody knows that the Germans are very skittish they're skittish people so uh what does Brian say I don't know Rel I know what brain says because that's what it says oh that's well whoops that's going to happen I think a bunch in here don't worry well Brian says after the first transaction the Doctor Who We Were talking about how many containers of pins were coming out of Europe so we bought one thinking that there were lots of people were looking for games to refurbish we did okay with the 33 games that was the start of our business relationship it's a good idea and and uh and and brain also said I had retired from running the Hasbro licensed gii Joe and Transformers collection clubs for 25 years and David was working in the pinball industry with spooky then covid hit and the world changed and barrels of fun was born you remember when deep root collapsed right yes and how there was like this they they started liquidating all the assets they started sort of selling off the Prototype playfields and they sold like all the all of the the the metal pieces and side rails and and there's still legal stuff going on with them to this day here in 2025 early 2025 uh fighting with that which is why we don't have a deep rot episode yet I'm looking for some closure before I uh yeah Robert mu is still they're still trying to get money from him so that literally is still going on so when it so they had like uh pinball legs and they had screws and pieces of metal and and and Manufacturing equipment and and the pin pods and LCD displays as we'll find out later and this all went up for liquidation auction a bunch of people picked up some of these things one of those is Turner pinball and you remember them from their ninja eclips game mhm a lot of these companies that picked up stuff kind of remained nameless barrels of fun picked up a bunch of the LCD screens so if you look at uh their first released pin at barrels of fun they have an LCD screen under the glass on we'll get into that we'll get into that don't get ahead of ourselves all right all right all right all right to be able to build pinball you need a place to build pinball and we spoke about how that was such an issue in Australia for a uh company called uh uh uh haggus haggus good Lord wow it's been they I've forgotten about them that quickly they struggled with scaling up manufacturing so the first thing that barrels of fund did was they secured a 19 or 20,000 sqt facility in Houston Texas Texas which is pretty big here was one of the clarification things that I did ask uh over to the team at barrels of fun and I said why Houston and not Chicago reasons make sense the reasons make a lot of sense although reason one we don't live in Chicago and don't plan to move there it's too cold there and besides David is really far south Texas yeah he's he's very like he doesn't want to be he doesn't want to be cold and I get that I was snow shoing this morning Ron yeah I don't want to Snowshoe Houston is also a huge manufacturing facility with a port for important and export of parts and products worldwide the labor cost is much lower finally we are developing secondary Parts suppliers that other pinball companies don't use so we have multiple Supply channels outside of Chicago and they're not alone there's lots of companies that move to Texas yeah there's a lot of manufacturing in Texas so it's not like it's not like they're in the middle of nowhere um they are in a in a hub their only issue is the power grid cuz they have their own so when it goes out they're screwed yeah that's yeah oh it's the windmills mhm it's the windmills are ruining the the power power grid they started working on their first machine I'm really I'm I really like this machine so let's talk about this just to go back in time here we were talking about the the the little stickers and stuff that would show up at shows about this new upcoming company and it was around it was across the country like I was at I was in Allentown Pennsylvania for their show stickers would show up you'd be like in California for stickers these things would show up Texas they would show up like what what is this what is this this this weird logo this company that's coming and we finally figured out what it was it's a cool logo and they show up at tpf with these Labyrinth games ready to go they had some inboxes ready to go for I'd say one of the most impressive debuts I've ever seen so you were there you were there been there for everything I was there in Jersey Jack unveiled Wizard of Oz and it wasn't I say it wasn't as impressive as this as far as just the amount of games they had ready they had a whole row of like 10 games with a NeverEnding line to the to the point where I only got one game in because it was just such a long line they had banners they had stickers and they had merch and they like it like they legit launched it and I think part of the reason why they were able to put such a show of force at the Texas pinball Festival was because they had money behind them it wasn't just a small family or a bunch of guys getting together you know it wasn't a it wasn't like a a gal putting up a uh a a gofund me or a uh what do they call those it was a guy from a multi-million dollar company his own multi-million dollar company so yeah who did manufacturing did manufactur had relationship so he he's a business person first and a kind of collector marketer second which is really important because most of the people that start up a company in pinball are just regular individual ual which is fine but it's a totally different game if you're trying to make something as hard as pinball and you're just like an enthusiest they didn't position it as pinball pinball for everybody they didn't you know they they know that they're not selling uh a a sub $1,000 pinball machine to the masses they are specifically focused on the collectible Market limited edition numbers and you need certain uh credibility and the ability to do that cuz people have to believe in your product and I think they knew right out of the gate that they had to impress and you were there uh did they impress labyrith was the first game I remember since probably Wizard of Oz like from a debut company where you looked at it and it looked like a pinball machine by a company that had been making it for 10 years it didn't look like a home brew you know what I mean I mean it it it it looked like a professional manufacturer company that been doing this for years so when you went up to it you gave it like a shake it didn't go like squeaky not just that it's just it's just the appearance of how it looks you know what I mean I'm like the physical appearance of the pin you go like Highway their first game there oh God what was it called the one with the the racing theme the racing theme people are just screaming you writhing on the highway in their in their car right now I mean you could tell okay it game from a new company cuz it just it looked it at least to me this looked like it could have been from any you know longtime manufacturer putting out a game it just what it looked like Full thrt Throttle I can't believe I can't remember that name man I'm getting old okay so here's the thing and it was licensed the first thing they say it's they got a license you can't they're in the Collectibles market and nobody wants to buy the collectible of food truck nobody wants to buy the collecti of Barry O's barbecue challenge they want a theme that is collectible around their brand and I'm going to have to say I am shocked and surprised it is not Transformers or gi. Joe oh after the other like that's like his bread and butter right Brian Savage's bread and butter well they already made a Transformers game and I'm sure they didn't want to just retread something yeah that probably went into the calculation and gii Joe I mean it could make a Team America World police oh that would you know if if that's like a modern dayg Joe if they ever made a Team America World Police yes I'm in but that will never happen so the theme that they chose Labyrinth and Labyrinth is the licensed fantasy creepy Muffet David Bowie bulge theme they have sold I think over 750 units although they targeted 750 unit so they're already head of the game game was designed by David Van Es the mechanics by Travis Travis Moseman software by Eric CRI pry Eric pry and Phil Grimaldi artwork by Jonathan berson who's a name you should recognize he goes by Johnny crap up here in can Canada yep he did he did Jurassic Park for stern animation by Trent Armstrong now I remember somewhere around the Rick and Morty time when that came out at spooky there were Rumblings that David Van Es was designing a Playfield and he was really he really wanted to jump into doing more than just the marketing and animation and then it never happened and we were like well what what happened with that and then you know kind of a year or six months after kind of those Rumblings came out that David Van Es was working on a Playfield and it was you know he was very excited to release it he was gone from spooky so him becoming the game designer of Labyrinth I think is kind of interesting so let's talk about let's talk about the theme yeah what about Labyrinth I've never seen Labyrinth okay you've never seen Labyrinth it's um I I remember seeing this when I was a kid I want to say probably like six seven8 kind of in that age range and it has this creepy scary childhood feeling in my in in my chest it's like uh you remember Who Framed Roger Rabbit please Eddie no I don't remember it at all so that movie has the same nost algic Terror in my in my background like it was so Terror yeah with the part when he gets rolled over with the steam roller come on you find out he's a tune yes to this day creeps me right out frame Roger Rabbit game that's what I want it's good old Jim Henson so you know it's going to be decent at all times I love Jim Henson so it has this it creates this feeling in me of like this creepy exciting fantasy it's got Jennifer Connell it's just it's so fun and it reminds me of being a kid but it also has the this just this level of of of creepy weird that makes it so interesting and I think that's why David Van was such a big fan as well he has the same feeling Labyrinth is the 1986 musical fantasy film directed by Jim Henson I believe his last movie directed many of the stars in the film were Muppets created by Jim Henson's Creature Shop with collaboration of Brian fraud and he was this was actually executive produced by George Lucas back when that meant something so after George Lucas made all that Star Wars money he worked on the executive producing of a lot of of films and this was one of them and how are the duck was another one people forget that one the Indiana Jones films it was aett producer y this uh film starred a young Jennifer Connelly and David Bowie in tight spandex pants where he played the Goblin King yeah he's got the Bulge thing I remember that part of it after Jim Henson made The Dark Crystal in 1982 I love Dark Crystal this is Jean Simmons from Kiss I would like you to join the patreon for silver ball Chronicles the coming a pro crony is the perfect way to say thanks and it starts at $3 a month W you get early access to episodes before everyone else won to be as cool as kiss interested in having your comments and questions take priority in our episodes jump up to a $6 a month premium Crome and then go to kiss online. stop that we're not going to Kiss online just finish up the damn list want all the other perks and a shirt after 3 months join us at $20 a month as an elus cro maybe you just want a shirt I understand swing on over to Silver ball swag.com and pick up a silverball Chronicles t-shirt then afterwards you could swing on over to kissonline.com see I have not seen Dark Crystal it's it's well it's kind of dark and it's not a musical I I remember I saw that Jim Hensen documentary on uh Disney plus that's very well it's very good mhm definitely worth it to watch so Hensen and and froud began thinking of a new film concept after Dark Crystal Dark Crystal did not do very well uh in uh in the film um critics were thought it was okay kids didn't like it it thought it was okay I I love that movie your feelings of Dark Crystal are the same feelings that I have for Labyrinth now the film was written by Terry Jones who was originally one of the members of Monty Python originally he was always a member of Monty Python yes until he died yeah exactly as you had me this was really one of the last uh major projects for Jim Henson who was a crazy nutty workaholic guy I believe it didn't do particularly great at the box office and he never got to direct another movie and the last thing that Jim Henson directed the last project he worked on before he died of uh uh cancer untimely canc um it he had he had like some issue and then he he didn't get it looked at immediately and died he wasn't cancer I'm pretty sure it wasn't cancer I got to look up it was something that if he had just gone in earlier that probably would not have been a problem just 53 years old that's brutal he just totally robbed right I mean the guy was we were robbed of more cool having trouble breathing blah blah coughed up blood might be dying but he didn't want to take time off from his schedule to visit a hospital then he finally goes to the hospital multiple abscesses in both of his lungs that res previous something that he apparently had for the past few days so basically had a really bad bad infection and just didn't get it looked at where he would have been fine so one of the last project the last project that Jim Henson um worked on before his death was yeah was at Hollywood Studios in um Disney World uh Muppet Vision 3D which is one of my absolute favorite places in uh Disney World which unfortunately is being closed down and they're changing it over to is that the one where you go in to the stage and what Waldorf and what's his name right there in the top oh yeah I did that it's awesome it's so great now they are change they are they are changing that over to Monsters Ink World quite frankly Disney has completely mishandled The Muppets except for like one film in in the entire relationship they had since Jim Henson's passing which is which is pretty upset which is pretty sad for me cuz I'm a huge Muppet is pretty good at destroying franchises they specialize that Muppets Star Wars Marvel they're they're great I hate Disney by the way if you haven't noticed you and I we're going to Disney World you no I I've been there once that was enough we'll go and I will I will I will be the power hungry guide walks you through the entire process and manages everything and you just go along for the ride and you will have a great time so this had a $25 million budget back in the 1980s and it grossed $35 million at the box office so it did make money it did get 77% Rotten Tomatoes Which is less than the Dark Crystal however it took on some serious cult classic after that in fact I love this movie so much I thought you know what I'm going to buy this on like Google TV so I can have it so I put it on the Google TV okay and I started watching it with my six-year-old daughter and when the when the at the beginning of the movie David Bowie steals the the little baby brother of uh Jennifer Connelly and my daughter freaked out and didn't want to watch the rest of the movie it was pretty great David Boe told an interviewer in 1992 that every Christmas a new flock of children comes up to me and says oh you're the one who's in Labyrinth you're not you're not like David Bowie the legendary freaking absurdly rich musician right in 1997 Jennifer connley said that I still get recognized for Labyrinth by little girls in the weirdest places I can't believe they still recognize me from that movie it's on TV all the time and I guess I pretty much look the same which is pretty great good for you Jennifer Conelly yeah she she looked good in Maverick so we talk about location location location right all the time well you know what in pinball and some people still don't get this it's IP IP IP that's what sells pinball we talk about choosing IP a lot Tom nean remember him we spoke about him long long ago back in the archives over at silverball chronicles. comom right B episode yeah he was the Bal licensing Guru back in the 1970s you mean games like wizard Captain Fantastic kiss Harlem G Trotters Dolly Parton Rolling Stones yeah the good Rolling Stones oh yeah this was like this was forever ago and we still have not learned marketing and IP is everything Tom nean says I kind of became the licensing guy for a Val corporate I work with the amusement parks trying to cross-promote with some licensing deals there it is cross promote the licenser promotes you because they want their brand out there you promote the brand because you want people to have an emotional connection to that that is why David Bowie's bulge is so important to selling pinball because I remember that as my childhood and it brings back that emotion Neiman explained on a few older podcasts back in the day in a couple of interviews and in the pinball compendium book all Linked In the show notes he explained that he was able to get licenses through directly contacting those relevant parties movie studios record labels celebrities and negotiating deals where Bal would provide a certain number of pinball machines as payment rather than upfront cash payments now of course I'm sure that is significantly changed nowadays unless you're George Lucas and you'll do anything for a pinball machine but this allowed Bal to produce very successful licensed pinball games that sold significantly more units than their unlicensed counterparts when licensing is too expensive you go to you know your own white label kind of branding things but having a license is not the only you need right ah according to Roger sharp as he stated on topcast episode 17 he feels that the key is blending the design team's ideas with the license rather than just doing a work for higher license game he beli the quality of the game design and creativity was more important than just having the license that's right so so back in the 70s right you just had a Playfield and slap some art on and it was kiss right now it's sold more than if it would be like fire Band 2000 it could have been any design it could have been any theme but because it was kiss it sold more now we get into the 1990s where Roger sharp is like the licensing Guru over at Bal Williams and it's become more about theme immersion and how the actual design team melds with the license so plenty of people back in the day would make a game and then they would slap a a a a design on it well that doesn't work anymore in the '90s well bringing it back to labyrith Brian Savage says our company vision is from The Collector fans perspective we first decide if intellectual property is interesting to us and will it make a great game some IPS are great but may not translate well to pinball the world is everything if it doesn't Scream the IP to the player we will have not done our job we want people to purchase our games because they love the world we have created and they find the game very entertaining I mean a great example of of Ip integration is is something that is some times hit or miss over at jjp kind of look at Toy Story 4 and it's sort of like that could almost be any game with just art on it but then when you look at something like the their latest release Avatar that is like woo that screams world underglass but that's what Brian and David Van Es want to have is they want everything to scream IP well as far so since you're a labyrinth guy did they do it they really like really nailed it it is Labyrinth through and through it has all of the characters and little bits let's I mean let's talk about the flyer first cuz we we love our Flyers cuz we love it and they did a great job there's no puns which makes me a little sad H they got David Bowie right on there which was a good idea they knew exactly what to do it's an all new pinball Adventure yes return to Jim Hansen's most iconic world of go Goins mazes bogs and more as you venture on your own quest to escape the Goblin King's Labyrinth featuring the music of David Bowie from the Labyrinth soundtrack yes Magic Dance that's the one that everybody knows underground chilly down as the World falls down also very good one within you but the like the back glass with David Bowie and his teased hair and eyebrows it's just awesome I like with the modern licensing you need two paragraphs of uh credits at the bottom of all the licensers yes who owns what can we zoom in on that let me see if I can zoom in and see if I can actually all game elements barrels of fun Jim Hensen trademark and Logo Labyrinth trademark and Logo Jim Hensen company motion picture Labyrinth Enterprises Magic Dance all the music is owned by w see music cor probably a David Bowie license for his likeness or something there's a lot of like fine print down there which is pretty funny when we look at the backside of this flyer it is Labyrinth so Labyrinth is it's it's so this girl she gets sucked into this maze that's always shifting and changing and it has all these weird strange you know Muppet characters down there and those characters along with the Labyrinth themselves eles are just the core of that entire film each one of those little details are in this pin this is why I wanted to do an episode on it because I love Labyrinth and this screams it the little worm dude that's sort of the guide that she meets when she first enters the Labyrinth his name is I think El which is short for hello pops up over by the skill shot area and then they have the the popup uh sculpts that are the uh what the heck do they call those guys they're like these little like and they tease you and harass you and bother you all I know is they had me when I you drain on the left side and the little guy pops out of the apron and mocks you if if the game is mocking me in any way I'm immediately a fan it has Camus which is the little dude on the horse cimus okay I think that was his name yeah cimus ah the wise man who is like this creepy like weird like guy it's just oh man and if you so good and if you look at the Playfield in the back panel we see an LCD display so we we alluded to this earlier that that is one of the uh the the pick offs uh from uh from deep root and what happened was they had an opportunity to buy all these LCD screens so they just bought them cheap and we should say they they are different they're longer and thinner and that's what deep root was going to use in their games so they found that it would be perfect for the back panel so they stick it in the back panel and then under various scenes it'll change it'll show some detailed information in the background but there's like one of the most famous scenes in the film is when they're in this hedge row and in the Hedge R there's these um goblins that are trying to chase them down they have these like little sticks with uh like a Nipper on the end and it bites people it's sort of like instead of having a sword or a spear they've got a stick with a Nipper on the end and you could just see these Nippers kind of bouncing above the Hedge rows Because the actual uh goblins are super short and it's hilarious and you can actually get this Nipper uh shooter Rod which is really cool it's it's just like they knew what they had to do and they hammered it right out of here it's so good so beyond that though we've got uh three flippers two major ramps we've got Spinners we've you got everything everything you need got drop targets they nailed what they needed to nail when it came to the look and feel so so hats off to them for knowing that they actually delivered one of these games to Henson studios in Los Angeles which is kind of neat and then there was the topper so Toppers have gotten pretty wild here in the last little while right so the first like I think crazy kind of cool topper after that Bal William like Toppers disappeared when B Williams disappeared well cool cool Toppers yeah St technically Stern had the one that's a tournament pinball on it yeah that's not that doesn't even though it's literally a Topper that doesn't count yeah okay it doesn't count no just because it sits on the top of the machine where a Topper does not make it a top okay yeah I think the first major milestone in in the new age of Toppers was the Ghostbusters topper which was just this cheap kind of crappy plastic thing that went on top of and it looked like the the lights from the Ghostbusters car Ecto one or whatever then the next I think major uh topper Milestone was probably what like Black Knight Black Knight was good where it's this animatronic Black Knight that moves left and right and up and down the Chicago gaming had all their cool toppers from Attack From Mars and Monster Bash and all that hey guys as a quick heads up I wanted to let you know that in my real life I'm David the advice guy at Dennis Financial we aren't investment advisers or insurance agents I always thought that sounded terrible we want to provide you with sound financial advice in in fact we want to provide you with investment and insurance advice for life and we take that honor very seriously do you know individuals who received Financial advice for 10 years have two times the financial assets of unadvised individuals for example we've got mortgage insurance at the bank right well did you know a 40-year-old nonsmoker can save $30 a month every month for 20 years just from shopping around for a more competitive rate now just imagine what a pin head like you could do with that extra money Toppers and shooter rods anyone if you're looking for a more human Dimension to your financial advice Dennis Financial Inc has you covered with advisor licensing most Canadian provinces contact me via email at David Dennis financial.net for a free rate quote and a copy of our value of advice ebook or check out Dennis financial.com in the topper Wars is definitely this uh Jim Henson's Labyrinth topper this is the three Goin goblins interactive topper you can see this on YouTube and it is worth it to take a look so not only is it like a pieces of plastic stuck together and animatronics and lights in eyes this is like full rubbery kind of faces that move and and almost like move their their their jaws and stuff it is it is like something that you would see it's let's call it animatronic right like it is like almost disney-esque now are the are these characters from the movie like do they have names these characters are from the movies their Name Escapes me at the moment ah okay but they are uh specific characters they are modeled after those specific characters and this was done by an individual who names whose Name Escapes me who I should have looked up but I'm not going to because we're already recording and I'm lazy and he worked for uh Peter Jackson's production company or it does work for Peter Jackson's production company called WETA FX and that's part of I think Wingnut films or something and he is a friend of David vanas likely from the Australian uh uh film school days and he's a sculptor he loves Labyrinth and as soon as he heard about Labyrinth he was he was like oh yeah let me do a sculpt for you and uh he came out with this topper and it is unbelievable what do you think I I think I just played a labyrinth last weekend yeah and did it have a creepy topper yes yes it had the topper and they like harass you right uh they do talk a lot yes yeah and then their eyes glow like red very creepy keeps you up at night I'm sure then it's got the shooter rod that's like enormous the end of it the Nipper shooter Rod yeah I'm not a fan of shooter yeah CU especially I like just the regular shooter if you have to hit a skill shot or something having this huge thing at the end of it see the thing is with me it's not it has nothing to do with skill shot or whatever it has everything to do with the way I just grab it I don't like it being this big chunky I just like the regular Stern style kind of just well it's not Stern you mean regular plunger style been around since like the 30s or 40s you can also buy an alternate back glass which is like the mirrored glass back glass basically if you don't want big David Bowie head they have the other back glass that's doesn't have David Bowie on it personally the David Bowie is where it's at in my opinion yeah I've seen I thought more people would be into the alternate back glass than no but most people seem to want Mr Bowie on there that's because it's it's it screams hilarious 80s the the puffy teased hair the David Bowie makeup it's just it's so iconic did you know they're going to make a new Labyrinth film oh God no yeah why can't they make anything original because nobody has any original IDE has any Talent Hollywood everything oh God yeah whatever don't get me going on that stuff so they actually started shipping those Toppers uh in January of 2024 you know pretty close to production Stern can't seem to get their accessories out within a 12-month period which is pretty wild do we go into the big debut I mean they debuted at the 2023 Texas pinball Festival I think I did talk a little about that they had I don't know like 10 of them there they had other ones available for sale they had a huge line a cool display it was one of the more impressive debuts I've seen and and they actually worked like I've seen impressive debuts before but you know I remember alien debut and it kept breaking I remember um big Labowski and the thing broke while I was playing it kept breaking these were pretty they worked pretty well the whole show I didn't see playfields up in the ser his position at any point which is pretty great and then people left the show with some that they bought which to my understanding are still working yeah and other people were like yeah I'm put my order in that's where if you're a distributor you were hoping that you uh you're a distributor for barrels of fun they also we got to talk about the name this is the first time we find out what the name is of this company too yeah because they just boom they just appeared and now it's just barrels of fun what was your reaction to the name uh I thought it was fine I I I thought it was fine not a fan I was just like ah it's got to have better name than that no I thought it was fine it doesn't really say what there's no pinball in the title but I guess the idea is and that's the thing supposedly they're going to make more than just pinball yeah it's just it's going to be manufactured collectible yes so I guess from that perspective okay you don't put pinball on the title but I don't know just it's never crazy about the name I think it's fine it's not it's not um it's not as good as ramps oh God R ramps pinball manufacturing the new name that was just announced like I mean it's not that good but I mean it's it's cool uh you know it's fine it's a bit different we'll see we'll see where it goes let's talk about some of the Milestones so it blew up right like it won the tppy award uh in 2023 for topper toys in mechs it won a People's Choice Award at modern pinball at the uh for modern pinball at mgc which is the Midwest Gaming Classic for those who don't know what that means yes it won Best in Show at the Modern pinball at for modern pinball at the Brisbane Masters in Australia in 2024 you said Brisbane right very good yeah it became the main sponsor for the return of penberg yes in July of 2024 it did not last the whole tournament though no I have to be I have to be truthful it did it didn't last it was it was it was kicked around a lot it was played a lot but yeah it didn't last to the end of the tournament they did it's not all rainbows and unicorns though they they did struggle a bit you got to have Growing Pains as you scale up because you know most I think they spoke about se you 750 was like the number they were going for but I think they were actually like limited to like 1100 units worldwide they've kind of blown through that number it's it they've they've really pushed a lot of units out and haven't had a lot of like there's no angry pinside I haven't seen too many angry pinsiders complaining about a zillion broken servos or stuff not working on your game yeah or they call up for support there's nobody there they didn't renew the contract of all their employees and now they're just going to start again again well David vanz says growing the company from a small team to over 25 employees has been a huge learning curve for me adjusting our production goals to meet the overwhelming demand has been both exciting and challenging impacting Logistics HR quality control and development managing rapid growth and navigating supply chain issues has been a heads spinner but the support of our team Distributors customers fans and family keeps me focused I'm determined not to let them down these turtles have taught us invaluable lessons and strengthened our foundation for the future right it's like a duck on the water okay the duck is just kind of cruising you just see you're like oh look at the Ducks they're so cute but then under the water it's like these legs are going like a million miles an hour I was wondering where you were going there with that I've never heard the duck analogy you've never heard the duck so we talk about the duck all the time duck in Canada is the whole thing just it's all about the duck duck and the be is that you're like National animal no it's the our national an animals the the beaver cool yeah also you can also make a lot of jokes about yes we could but not on this we HRA we're not like the slam tiled podcast your other podcast that's what's happening right is they're talking about all these challenges and issues they have scaling up but I mean I'm completely unaware of these issues you know what I mean like like underneath you know the surface all this stuff is going on crazy like the duck's leg positiveness they probably did not expect the amount of demand that came I think you're probably right especially after things like deep root happened you know people might be a little sour on new companies and just going all in but that was not the case at all I think the pinball audience has shown like they have no memory and if you put a good product out there it's just they're going to go for it especially if it's not like all the money's up front or something like I can just pay and get my game like it'll it's actually ready yeah no down payments that would be great no kickstarters that's the way you don't have to wait 12 months or 2 years although spooky has been able to make the deposit system work but here's the thing okay as you're scaling up a lot of stress a lot of worry a lot of back and forth well how do the team members of of David Van Es and Brian Savage work together well David says we are the epitome of ying and yang our strong personalities challenge each other to improve and to double check ourselves there are so many moving Parts in this business it's not about I it's a we company his experience and guidance has been instrumental in our success and I value his contribution deeply oh what does Brian say Brian says our partnership has been fantastic as we work extremely well together David is focused on building machines and I'm focused on building the back end of the business each is totally each is a totally different task since I work remotely David is the one who has to manage all the people in the day-to-day business his inside the industry contacts are Stellar as is his reputation in the industry I dare say neither of us could have done it without each other so we can see there's a separation of powers here well it's very yeah David is the creative force behind the games and Brian is like the money man with the facilities and all that right he's the he's the George Gomez he's running the studio he's dealing with all that Gary Stern probably a little taller a lot less glasses more hair does does labyrinth pass the Ron Hallet test as a game I would buy it as a theme I would not buy it cuz I just never seen Labyrinth you should watch it it you would enjoy it I think Labyrinth is the kind of 80s movie that I think you would enjoy but just knowing the kind of Licensing or the licensing success David Van Es has had I am very curious to see what the next game is going to be I mean you figure if he has any kind of relationship with Hensen like what else could you do you could do a Dark Crystal I don't know how that would sell but you could just make a plain Muppets oh my God if there was a muppet everyone wants that's the one I hear all the time everyone wants just a regular Muppets pen yeah man if there was a if there a Muppets pin would be a hard that would be a hard thing for me to like pass up and the whole trade War conversation between you know uh Canada and the US at the moment which we have not touched on buying us products from us companies uh is is very fuxa at the moment but I'll tell you what man a Muppets pin from like a barrels of fun with a Stadler W wolf W how do you say it Stadler and it's after the hotel Wald Waldorf topper oo animatronic and they both insult you oh man could you imagine hey what happened to the ball it disappeared all the pig jokes uh pigs in space Oh my God birdie birdie put the bird in the bird oh I want one now make it happen barels of fun I demand a machine Dune people have mentioned Dune was another one Dune would be pretty cool that's kind of fun I don't know like if it's the new new Dune or the old Dune which is also itself kind of hilarious I oh God if it's the Y Dune is it going to have like Sting on there with like no clothes on saying I will kill you Sting with a bulge also a big deal yes you know there's there's been rumors of uh Fifth Element was a rumor for a while which is a good one I love Fifth Element that's a that's a Nostalgia if they follow their pattern it's going to have to be something that can really be the world under glass it's going to have to be something like its own world I'm excited to see what's going on with barrels of fun which is why I think we I jumped into this episode because I'm impressed with what and I would think it has to be announced this year mean it might be coming we're a month and a half away from Texas you know they built their 750 labyrinths it's been two years in in addition to that actually so when I was doing the research of this fil uh this episode uh sort of December uh January early January of of 2425 the barrels of fun website was down for a while and they were doing some changes and modification to their website so I don't know if that's like hiding stuff in the background they got the plyers are already ready see if you can hack the site and get all the right I don't know if that's like setting up a new e-commerce like website component I'm only kidding barrels of fun don't do that don't don't be like Stern where there's just a link in you you find it and like oh look at that a flyer or something or hey a video hey there's the trailer yeah exactly don't don't do that that was a what was that was that a uh was that a jjp error a few years ago they've all done it they've all done it where they have the link it's like it's unlisted but it's not private so if you just stumble on it or can find it boom there it is yeah and there's plenty of nerds in pinball if you have't noticed jump on the barrels of fun Facebook page I got some Milestone information just to wrap it up here they shipped their first 100 labyrinths by February 21st then they were at 270 on June 14th 400 by August 16th of 2024 and 500 as of September 24th 2024 and then 559 games on their their first anniversary of October 13th 2024 I guess they consider that their first anniversary of when they started full production I assume yeah and as of December 16th 2024 they have built over 750 labyrinths and made even more in the last weeks of the year yeah and now we're in February so they had another two mon they got to be well what is let's see what Dave what does David Van Es say about what's next he says and what's next we are currently planning 3 to 5 years ahead in facilities and intellectual property with a vision that extends into the next day decade the planning process is dynamic and it hopefully allows us to remain agile in the short term while staying aligned with our long-term goals wow lot of very businessyoutube to talk this way now it's some kind of law otherwise you don't seem like you're professional enough or know what you're doing exactly now here's the thing right most of these companies most big companies they're planning 10 years out right and and you plan 10 years out and then of course 10 years out is like a crapshoot right Lots can change in year A lot can change so you got your three to five year plans you got your 10year vision and you just sort of navigate the Waters of which you go out of there the other thing is if uh you know the the US starts a trade war with the rest of the world that's going to cause a lot of issues when it comes to importing parts from other countries so if they're in a place like Texas where they can maybe manufacture more of those parts with the expertise they have hopefully that'll keep their prices down because if they're fighting off tariffs that's going to be a problem for the pinball manufacturing industry you literally be able to tell which pinball manufacturers import more stuff yeah CU I know companies like you know spooky likes to make as much of their own stuff as possible they they could be in a better position like hey our prices haven't changed you know do they want to take down Stern is this what they're doing no cuz Brian Savage says we don't want to be the biggest we just want to do the best job that can be done for our customers that means selling 500 or a th000 machines but them being like collector collector is items that's a big deal that's what their is pretty much the spooky model yeah which is why spooky has been successful I think yeah and they have several other employees from spooky that are there uh pry prep's been he's done games for different companies he's I'm trying to think which one he did I think he did the original Cactus Canyon continued or whatever it was called back in the day so barrels of fun I am looking forward to whatever their next game is please be muet that would be great [Music] oh that's great okay here we go as always you can send your comments questions Corrections and concerns toce cicles gmail.com we look forward to all your messages and we read everyone please subscribe to us on your favorite pod catcher turn on automatic download so you don't miss a single episode remember to leave us a five-star review of whatever the highest Star level is that way more people can find us join us on patreon to support the show becoming a pro cron is the perfect way to say thanks and it starts at $3 a month want to get early access to episodes before everyone else have a strange love for stickers join the Discord chat by jumping on at $6 a month it's a premium croning what are all the other perks and a t-shirt after 3 months join us at $20 a month is an elitist crony maybe you just want a t-shirt I understand swing on over to silverball swag.com and pick up a silverball chronical t-shirt I'm out of here [Music] and uh when we were recording that and Ron did uh when jeez I did that again when we uh holy moly than the typical LCD screen they're they're longer and thinner and that's what that head it I don't know when they just did a muppet when they just did a Muppet theme maybe they want to like kind of space that out have a non mppa theme and then go back to a muppa theme um Tommy Douglas Tommy Douglas former member oh God 1904 he was originally from Robert Englunds Scottish born Canadian politician oh let's see uh okay here we go in 1930 Douglas married Irma Dempsey a music student they had one daughter actress Shirley dougas his daughter Shirley married actor Donald southernland together they had a son named kefir Southerland

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 4ed9589c-4d81-488d-92df-c5f7e52e24c7*