# Ep 78: Rumours **Source:** Final Round Pinball Podcast **Type:** podcast_episode **Published:** 2024-02-19 **Duration:** 59m 6s **Beat:** Pinball **URL:** https://www.finalroundpinball.com/final-round-pinball-podcast-ep-78-rumours/ --- ## Analysis Final Round Pinball Podcast episode 78 opens with extended personal banter between hosts Jeff Teolis and Martin Robbins about aging, hair loss, and disco music before pivoting to pinball topics. Key discussion includes Jaws (Stern, Keith Elwin design) gameplay impressions and a code update fixing an exploit, Pinburgh 2024 sold-out announcement (144 capacity, expanded from 120), and a revived "Slam the Top 100" segment comparing Metallica vs. Jurassic Park as Stern's best games, with Jurassic Park ultimately winning the debate. ### Key Claims - [HIGH] Pinburgh 2024 sold out at 144 capacity (expanded from 120) — _Jeff Teolis stated this as confirmed fact about the upcoming tournament_ - [HIGH] Jaws (Stern, Keith Elwin design) received a code update that nerfed an upper flipper exploit from 50,000 points repeatedly to 10 points — _Martin Robbins described the specific exploit and code fix with technical detail_ - [HIGH] Jaws is one of Keith Elwin's best-sounding games, with iconic John Williams music creating intense pressure during gameplay — _Martin Robbins praised the sound design; Elwin acknowledged the John Williams credit_ - [MEDIUM] Jurassic Park is known as the hardest game in pinball, which makes it less enjoyable for casual players — _Martin Robbins stated this in the Slam the Top 100 debate; anecdotal evidence about collector avoiding the game_ - [HIGH] Jack Tidman won the Ontario Provincial Championship and has won multiple provincial/state championships — _Martin Robbins confirmed as third place finisher in Ontario Provincial Championship, crediting Tidman as the best player in Canada_ - [HIGH] Carl Weathers (Apollo Creed, Mandalorian voice actor) passed away at age 76 — _Jeff Teolis mentioned this as recent news, though partially confused about Weathers' Mandalorian role_ - [HIGH] Head2Head Pinball Podcast has done Christmas episodes for four consecutive years — _Jeff Teolis verified this by listening back to old episodes and counting the Christmas special iterations_ - [HIGH] Metallica features Lyman F. Sheats Jr. code and Dirty Donny art that revolutionized pinball aesthetics — _Martin Robbins cited these as signature elements in the Slam the Top 100 debate_ ### Notable Quotes > "I Feel Love, Donna Summer, right? Like there's just no argument... number one song in heaven by Sparks... Giorgio is the man." > — **Jeff Teolis**, opening segment > _Personal music taste discussion that establishes host personalities before pivoting to pinball_ > "Best sounding game I think I've ever heard. He goes, tipped hat to John Williams then." > — **Martin Robbins**, Jaws discussion > _Describes Jaws sound design excellence and Keith Elwin's humble acknowledgment of John Williams' iconic score_ > "It's a shot where the fin comes up after you get enough chum bucket shots and it moves left or right and you've got to hit it as the music's going. That sounded awesome." > — **Martin Robbins**, Jaws gameplay > _Technical description of Jaws' interactive shot design that creates tension through music and mechanics_ > "You can do that. It's worth 10 points. Like that's pretty awesome. That's a great thing. Well done guys." > — **Martin Robbins**, Jaws code update discussion > _Praise for responsive code balancing that removed an exploit without over-nerfing gameplay_ > "Jurassic Park is known as the hardest game in pinball. So hard, in fact, people say it's not enjoyable." > — **Martin Robbins**, Slam the Top 100 debate > _Articulates community concern about JP's difficulty barrier for casual/home players_ > "What's great about Metallica code is that you are always in a mode. You just don't know that you're in a mode... That's what I love about Metallica. You as a player have choice." > — **Martin Robbins**, Slam the Top 100 (Metallica defense) > _Core game design philosophy: emergent gameplay and player agency vs. directed modes_ > "Jurassic Park, perfect code... It was released at Pinburgh. Everybody got to see several of these machines. The lineups were ridiculous." > — **Jeff Teolis**, Slam the Top 100 (JP defense) > _Highlights Jurassic Park's massive community reception and continued demand/production_ > "Zero fucks given. That's what we're going to call this podcast... It's almost like a vessel for Ryan and I to just do whatever the fuck we like." > — **Jeff Teolis**, Head2Head Podcast discussion > _Describes the tone and philosophy of the Head2Head Christmas special series_ > "Marty has, if I'm being honest, I think he has trouble admitting sometimes he may be wrong... He will not back down on that seasoned veteran thing." > — **Jeff Teolis**, Host dynamics discussion > _Self-aware meta-commentary about on-air schtick and host personalities_ > "Just keep that in mind. That's all I want to say. So when you listen back, just note how much Marty bashed Keith Elwin." > — **Jeff Teolis**, Slam the Top 100 closing > _Jeff calls out Martin's consistent critique of Keith Elwin, positioning it as running gag_ ### Entities | Name | Type | Context | |------|------|---------| | Jeff Teolis | person | Co-host of Final Round Pinball Podcast; Canadian pinball player and tournament organizer | | Martin Robbins | person | Co-host of Final Round Pinball Podcast; pinball enthusiast and game analyst | | Keith Elwin | person | Legendary pinball designer at Stern Pinball; designer of Jaws, Jurassic Park, Iron Maiden; subject of running joke about being 'seasoned veteran' | | Jack Tidman | person | Canadian competitive pinball champion; won Ontario Provincial Championship, New York State Championship; described as 'best player in Canada' | | John Williams | person | Iconic film composer; credited for Jaws theme that Stern's Jaws pinball game uses | | Carl Weathers | person | Actor (Apollo Creed, Predator, Mandalorian voice); passed away at age 76 during podcast recording period | | John Borg | person | Pinball designer known for high-quality games; praised consistently by both hosts | | Lyman F. Sheats Jr. | person | Pinball code designer; creator of code for Metallica and Walking Dead | | Dirty Donny | person | Pinball artist; created revolutionary art on Metallica; also worked on Aerosmith | | Rick Nagel | person | Involved in Jaws (Stern) design/development | | Elizabeth Gieske | person | Involved in Jaws (Stern) design/development | | Nate | person | Creator of random pinball generator used on Coast to Coast podcast; designed 'Slam the Top 100' format | | Ryan C | person | Co-host of Final Round Pinball Podcast and Head2Head Pinball Podcast; guest on this episode | | Mrs. Pin | person | Community member who helped secure a Pinburgh ticket for Jeff Teolis when he was unable to complete initial purchase | | John Popaduke | person | Pinball designer (Papa Duke); mentioned in list of respected designers | | Bob Betor | person | Pinball designer; mentioned in list of respected designers | | Bowen Kerins | person | Pinball designer; mentioned in list of respected designers | | Final Round Pinball Podcast | organization | Long-running pinball podcast hosted by Jeff Teolis and Martin Robbins; this is Episode 78 | | Head2Head Pinball Podcast | organization | Informal pinball podcast featuring Jeff Teolis, Ryan C, and others; known for crude/explicit humor; features annual Christmas episodes | | Pinburgh | event | Major annual pinball tournament in Pittsburgh; 2024 edition sold out at 144 capacity (expanded from 120) | | Jaws | game | Stern Pinball machine designed by Keith Elwin; praised for sound design, received recent code update fixing exploit | | Jurassic Park | game | Stern Pinball machine by Keith Elwin; considered hardest game in pinball, still in production; won Slam the Top 100 debate over Metallica | | Metallica | game | Stern Pinball machine featuring Lyman F. Sheats Jr. code and Dirty Donny art; lost Slam the Top 100 debate to Jurassic Park | ### Topics - **Primary:** Jaws (Stern) gameplay and code updates, Pinburgh 2024 tournament capacity expansion and sellout, Metallica vs. Jurassic Park comparison (Stern's best games) - **Secondary:** Keith Elwin design philosophy and criticisms, Competitive pinball in Canada (Ontario Provincial Championship), Head2Head Pinball Podcast format and humor evolution, Pinball game difficulty and casual player accessibility - **Mentioned:** Pinball sound design and music licensing ### Sentiment **Positive** (0.72) — Generally upbeat and celebratory tone throughout (Pinburgh sellout, Jaws praise, game design discussion). Friendly banter between hosts with some ribbing about aging and appearance, but all good-natured. Debate over Metallica vs. Jurassic Park is spirited but respectful. Mild frustration expressed about ticket purchasing difficulty and game difficulty barriers, but balanced with appreciation for game design quality. No major negativity or controversy. ### Signals - **[code_update]** Jaws received a code update that reduced an upper flipper exploit from 50,000 repeatable points to 10 points, addressing a trivialize safe shot (confidence: high) — Martin Robbins: 'Code update that shot. Now you can do that. It's worth 10 points. Like that's pretty awesome.' - **[event_signal]** Pinburgh 2024 sold out at 144 capacity, expanded from previous 120, indicating growing demand and successful expansion (confidence: high) — Jeff Teolis: 'Speaking of Pinburgh, congratulations. Sold out. 144. It expanded from 120.' - **[gameplay_signal]** Jurassic Park identified as the hardest game in pinball, creating accessibility issues for casual/home players who avoid it (confidence: high) — Martin Robbins: 'Jurassic Park is known as the hardest game in pinball. So hard, in fact, people say it's not enjoyable... everybody that comes over will play every other game except for Jurassic Park' - **[design_innovation]** Jaws features an interactive fin mechanism that moves left/right based on player progress, timed to iconic John Williams music, creating unique shot pressure (confidence: high) — Martin Robbins: 'That shot where the fin comes up after you get enough chum bucket shots and it moves left or right and you've got to hit it as the music's going' - **[design_philosophy]** Metallica's code design emphasizes emergent gameplay and player choice over directed modes, allowing constant decision-making (confidence: high) — Martin Robbins: 'What's great about Metallica code is that you are always in a mode. You just don't know that you're in a mode... That's what I love about Metallica. You as a player have choice.' - **[sentiment_shift]** Keith Elwin's reputation for game design excellence acknowledged despite Martin Robbins' running critique of being a 'seasoned veteran' (confidence: high) — Jeff Teolis: 'Just keep that in mind. That's all I want to say. So when you listen back, just note how much Marty bashed Keith Elwin... He will not back down on that seasoned veteran thing.' - **[content_signal]** Final Round Pinball Podcast considering revival of 'Slam the Top 100' segment from Head2Head format to compare games (confidence: high) — Jeff Teolis: 'Let's bring back that little... I've actually already got the tab open on the Pinside Top 100' - **[product_launch]** Jurassic Park remains in active production at Stern with multiple units at Pinburgh 2024 and continued demand (confidence: high) — Jeff Teolis: 'It was released at Pinburgh. Everybody got to see several of these machines. The lineups were ridiculous and still to this day they're still making the game.' - **[competitive_signal]** Jack Tidman won Ontario Provincial Championship in pinball, noted as top Canadian player with multiple provincial/state wins (confidence: high) — Martin Robbins: 'Jack Tidman won... he's the best player in Canada... he won the New York state championship... won the Manitoba provincial championship... I kind of think he has' - **[community_signal]** Jeff Teolis and Martin Robbins maintain running gag about Martin's harsh criticism of Keith Elwin while both acknowledge his excellence (confidence: high) — Jeff: 'He will not back down on that seasoned veteran thing. Ever.' / Martin: 'I've always been a massive Borg fan and I am too, and we all are. He makes great games.' --- ## Transcript The Pinball Network is online. Launching final round pinball podcast. It's player versus player and player versus machine. Welcome to the final round. Hello again, I'm Jeff Teolis. Hello Jeff Teolis, I'm Martin Robbins. How are you? 78, a great year for disco. Were you ever in it like you like dance music and stuff? Do you appreciate disco? Like I fucking love disco. We okay stop. What? Collaborate and listen. Let me tell you, we've had this discussion offline everybody about disco. I freaking love disco. Okay. I think we both agreed, actually, and then we had an argument, but we agreed that the number one, the best disco song of all time is I Feel Love, Donna Summer, right? Like there's just no argument. And then for me, my second is the number one song in heaven by Sparks. And that's when you listened to it and you went, no, this isn't disco. And I'm like, oh, okay. Well, it was also produced by Giorgio Moroder and at the same time. So it was disco. Anyway, whatever. I'm right. Giorgio is the man. No question about it. He's awesome. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. I was just curious. I don't know why. Yeah, no, I know. Yeah. Well, we talked about it before, cause I said the best crossover disco song was, and you'll remember this, Blondie, Heart of Glass. Okay. Yeah. I like it. Yeah. We had that conversation anyway, and that was online. I forget things because I'm getting older and you're getting older and we're both getting older since last time you heard our podcast. We are closer to death. Well, I would say everybody is closer to death after the last podcast in reality because of the podcast that's part of I would say it Contributes somewhat to it, correct? But yes, you've had a birthday this year. I've now had a birthday this year What I love is that you sent me a message and you were the first message that I saw. Bingo. And you said, it was something like, you know, happy birthday, you old fuck. And the funny thing was, I didn't reply exactly to that, but in my mind, I just thought, you can call me as old as you like, add 1% and there you are. You will always be older than me. So call me as old as you like. We're born the exact same year, a couple, not even two full weeks apart from each other. We're both Aquarius. Let the sun shine in. Uh-huh. Have I ever told you this? Oh, I'm so glad my wife doesn't listen to this program. So I'm born in January 1970. You're February 1970. Yeah. And Anne is born September 1969, my beloved wife. Okay. So you don't think that I just grill her that she's born... She's a whole decade older than I am. Yeah, absolutely. I'd be going at that all the time. Four months, I just let her have it. You know, the old broad and all that stuff. Anyway, but she, correct me, points out, she goes, um, but I look younger. I'm like, yeah, yeah. Yeah, she makes a very valid point. She looks very young. She was away. Um, where was I going with this story? Hold on. Uh, I don't know. Hold on, the memory. Oh, wow. You are getting old. Fuck, hold on. Where was I going with this? What were we saying before that? About her being 69, always a decade. Yeah. For Sandingrad, I'm Matt Kersholt back with Alexander Davis histórico I'm Alvin as a podcast I'm We don't do that kind of stuff for stream. We nearly did. I know where it's going with this. Okay, here we go. We're back in the room. Come on back. Three of you, come back. The show's gold, I promise. By the way, even though you didn't fucking email us, we're still doing a show, you assholes. Yeah, fuckers. Okay, here we go. She was away, and for whatever reason, she goes, how are things going? And she came back and I said, I have to confess something to you, and it almost broke my heart. I said, Ann, I think I'm losing my hair. Bald is beautiful, I don't give a shit about that, but I've always had this flowing mane, this really thick, thick hair, and I thought, that's looking a little receding there, that's getting a little thin. And she had a look and she just, and now she won't look me in the eye. She's known, she's known for a while. Look, I would never say anything derogatory to your face. However, I will talk to everybody else about it and we are now talking not face to face. So I can tell you as somebody that sees you very infrequently, duh, like yeah, but so am I. I'm receding. I'm getting grayer every day. Oh, I've lost that battle. That's the only reason I grew it long is because it was darker on top and it was hiding some of the gray in the back. I shaved the sides of my hair so it's almost just to the skin. No grey, because no hair, right? I know. Okay, everybody, follow around, top tip. If you want to stop going grey, shave your fucking head. Or you can dye it. Or you can be like me and have your hair just naturally fall out and you'll be good. Either way, you'll get there. Yeah. See, now the goatee, I've had the goatee for, I don't know, 30 years, give or take off a year or two, and the goatee was always there to do two things. So, we've got two questions. One, hide my double chin, and two, hide my really big nose. So, having glasses and a goatee hides my massive, big Italian nose, and I'm not vain by any means, am I? Let me just stop you there. I would never say anything to a French reader. The point is that goatee is completely white. The point is you ain't hiding fuck all, man. Come on. Oh shit. Uh, damn it. Fuck, you know what? I've got topics, but the way we're going right now, could this be another 100% all pinball episode? Could we do that? Funnily enough, when I was at my birthday dinner, one of the mums, we took a photo, like the group photo, if anyone knows me, we'll say there's my family, everybody, modern family, whatever you want to call it. And she looked at the photo and she's like, oh, that's a terrible photo, you need to take it again. and I said, you've got to understand, this is how we see you. This is, I'm sorry, but that's you. So that's what I'm saying to Jeff, that's you. You know, when people do that, and they're like, oh, take another picture, I always respond with camera doesn't fix ugly. Yeah, you know what, my response to them is don't fucking shut your eyes when the camera's bloody going, you know, or fucking smile properly. You're the problem. Get an app, filter it up, do the Yeah, Photoshop fixes everything, as you know. How many people just butter up their, you know, like, get rid of all the wrinkles and just they look like they're perfect or they've just had Botox and stuff like that. Yeah. We're all living the lie some way, aren't we? Yes, I know. Are we going to talk pinball today? Welcome to the old man bitching on the porch about getting off our fucking lawn podcast. You know what? If we did a podcast just about that, we'd probably get more listeners. You know what? We're going to slowly transition into that, okay? We are going to move to something else that actually makes money. Other than that, how have your last two weeks been? Fine. You know, it's 2024. Fine. You know, getting older. Wow. Great answer. The truth is I didn't actually give a shit. I just wanted to talk about what I did. Yes, I won another league. Yes, the Hammer City Pinball League, whatever. Get over it. You're used, especially in Australia, you're used to me winning things. Sure. But what I don't know is your state championships. The answer is we live in a province, not a state. So I didn't go to the state. But it's called the state championship, isn't it? It's provincial in Canada. All right. But the actual thing is called the state championship. Slash provincial. I don't know. I think I was third. Jack Tadman won. I lost to Jack and he's the best player in Canada. And he is a legend. And he won the New York state champ. I think he once won the Manitoba provincial champ. Now the Ontario, how many people can say they've won three? I know he's won two for sure. The Manitoba one, I'm not 100% sure on, but I kind of think he has. Can you explain to me what was it? Manitoba? Manitoba. It's one of the, one of the prairies. It's when you go with that, well, it's in between Alberta and Ontario, Saskatchewan's in there too. So it's a one of our fuck. I hope we have 10, 10 provinces. Yep. Okay. So yeah, that happened. Uh, watched, uh, oh, by the way, rest in peace. Carl Carl Weathers died. Uh, the voice of Mandalorian, Apollo Creed, a legendary actor, he was in Predator, uh, I loved him as himself in Arrested Development, being a quote unquote actor coach, trying to take Tobias Funke's money. Carl Carl Weathers, that was kind of all of a sudden, 76 years old, and it got me thinking. I know who he is. You do know who he is. I know the name, and you're saying he was Apollo Creed? Yes. I saw Rocky III? He's in it. Yeah, but whenever that came out, which was... 82. Yeah, okay. So that's the only thing I know. Are you saying he was in Predator? He was in Predator. He was in Arrested Development. He was... Yeah, no, I saw that he passed away. Mandalorian. Who is he in the Mandalorian? The pinball machine. He's the voice of the game. Oh, okay. Yeah, he's on the machine. Okay. I don't remember his character name, but anyway, just thought it was good to mention that. Sure. Okay. And got me fired. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And got me thinking, as games are coming out and we're seeing machines kind of get rethemed, if you will, if Back to the Future is coming, well, we've already had a Back to the Future game, Jurassic Park, one of your favorite games, that was done before. Games are getting redone, but one game that should be redone and it would be a great theme is Rocky, because the pinball machine was great and that's a theme that's pretty universal. And don't you think that is the theme that's missing? I'm John Popadiuk, and I'll see you next time on Pinball News. I don't know who the designer is. Is it your mate? I think it's your mate. I think... You did Jailtime together? I think... You and John Trudeau go way back. Just get away from this. Let's move away. Get away from life. It's gonna get worse. Okay, all right. It's gonna get worse. Speaking of Pinburgh, congratulations. Sold out. 144. It expanded from 120. We kind of knew it was gonna be expanding. We're gonna have to wait and see. We're gonna have to wait and see. uhm niot It is... Post that TPN. Share that. I just, you know, I, okay, I get it when people go, oh, you know, I tried and I missed out. Okay, click better. Um, I get the frustrations because it is a major tournament. I also appreciate that people, I really want to go to this, this is the one tournament. It'll get there. Just let it rebuild. That's all I can say to you. The thing that frustrated people, which I understand because I remember the first time I got tickets for Pinberg, and let's not forget, I had to get up at 4 o'clock in the morning, people, because that's when they go on sale here. And the thing that was real, and you know, everyone's like clicking buttons and oh my god, the heart's racing and whatever, and it's that when the button changes, you can actually click, you're then faced with a new screen and it's like, okay, what the fuck am I doing? Where's the drop down box? Where do I put my name? And it's just, you start clicking the wrong thing and you're in the wrong field. That's what happened to me the first time is I didn't know where everything was, so I missed out. But then I think 15 minutes later as tickets then got released for people that didn't complete their sale, that's when I got mine. I think it was the last one. If it wasn't, it was the one before. So 2018 or 2019, I didn't get a ticket. And luckily, I was in a group chat and God bless her, Mrs. Pin. Mrs. Pin! I remember that! And why that was important was, oh, I don't know, I was emceeing the event and I couldn't get in the tournament. I was like, fuck! Anyway, so congratulations to those that got in and again, watch for those satellite tournaments. I think they're going to post them on pinburgh.com as they get announced at the end of February. So find one near you and maybe we'll see you in Pittsburgh. So that'll be fun. Looking forward to that. And again, congratulations and thanks to all the sponsors that came on board that. Something else that happened in the last couple of weeks. I played Jaws. Oh, okay. Interesting. Which model? The Pro. I don't know if there's anything but the Pros out right now. Right. Okay. Well, obviously the videos have shown others, but I don't know if those are out in public consumption right now. So I played the pro. What did you think? Looking at it, I would say if you were to guess who designed it, Keith Elwin probably wouldn't come to mind right away. All right. Very different than some of his other layouts And then you look at some of the rules and you see the Keith touch and of course with Rick Nagel and Elizabeth Elizabeth Gieske and those that are involved in that I enjoyed the game It fun I will say this about Jaws I don know if I have ever heard a game where I love the sound as much as that game The callouts were great, but it was just the intensity. That Jaws music, first of all, like I sent a note to Keith and I said, best sounding game I think I've ever heard. He goes, twippy to John Williams then. And he's got a point. Let's see, let's see! Yeah, sure! Think of that intense music, in pinball, it kind of adds to the, not suspense, but just the pressure of I've got to make a shot, because there's a shot where the fin comes up after you get enough chum bucket shots and it moves left or right and you've got to hit it as the music's going. That sounded awesome though, the sound of the reels when you're plunging and hitting the up top and the right. Oh, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun. How were the Awesome Callouts from Richard Richard Dreyfuss? It was fine. You know. A lot of the stuff you hear really a lot of movie clips. Everything's in there. So I would say I heard probably an equal amount of movie clips to his voicing stuff, but the voicing stuff sounded fine. Like it wasn't over the top and it wasn't dominant. So it really wasn't, hey, this sounds like an old man doing something from 50 years ago. It sounded fine. Sure. That's good. How does it flip as far as how does it feel with the geometry and the layout? I didn't see one shot I really like sometimes there's a shot you're like, I'm not a fan of that shot or... Yeah, Led Zeppelin, yep. Well, sure, the upper flipper shot, Jurassic Park didn't have one of those but the O shot in Chaos was like, that's a little tight but it... Yeah. Or even the shot through the pops but they were doable and you know that they were such important shots that they had to be a little tougher. We have talked about the Houdini tight, tight shot. That might be the all-time toughest one, but I thought all the shots were pretty cool and neat upper flipper and the way you can trap the ball. There's a code update. I love this. So, you can trap the upper ball. You can press the button and it'll lock the flipper up so you can basically flip away at the bottom while trapping up a ball on the upper flipper. But sometimes a second ball would go in there. So what people were doing were just once the lock ended or once the upper flipper lock ended, they would just kind of quickly do a quick backhand and would go over the rollover switch and get 50,000, 50,000, 50,000, 50,000. And it was a safe thing. You could do it forever. It was like me playing Centaur at Pintastic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Code update that shot. Now you can do that. It's worth 10 points. Like that's pretty awesome. That's a great fuck. Well done guys. Yep, yeah, stick that to you. Oh, I love it. Keith doesn't miss a thing, but I know he's, hey, he's a new guy. He's not a seasoned veteran by any means. He's still working things out. Give him, what, I think you said 20 more years and then maybe you can see him as one of the all-time greats. Is that how it goes, Marty? Mm-hmm, correct. I didn't actually put a timeframe on it. I just said five years isn't long enough. Speaking of five years, let's just round down to four. I went back and listened for shits and giggles to an old head-to-head pinball podcast. Do you remember that? Oh, God. Vaguely, yeah. Which one? So, just I thought, how long have you guys been doing the Christmas episode? Oh, yeah. And this last one that aired, to the complaints of no one, by the way, not one... It was the best complaint. That was the fourth year in a row you've done the Christmas episode. I didn't realize you've been off air that long. Yeah, wow, okay. Because I have such vivid memories. In four years, do you know how many people are new to pinball that have no idea head to head ever existed and then they come across this Christmas episode and go, what the fuck is this? Who are these two assholes? So I think that's why we got that complaint from somebody that had listened to it the first time. Because they basically complained about the fact that we were being crude. Now, anybody that's listened to the show would know that's just par for the course. Like we weren't worse or better. You know, this year we were talking about, you know, Ryan getting kissed by a guy and then, you know, the literally ins and outs of butt sex. We were fine around here. What else happened? But the previous year, I think, or maybe the year before, we talked about prolapsed asshole. So you got to understand like that's, that's okay. Basically, what happens? Someone complained and said, oh, I'm never listening to this again. It's like, okay, well, I, we only do this podcast once a year. B, it's a dead fucking podcast. Three, no one gives a shit about that podcast. It's, it's almost like, I think we've mentioned on this podcast before that we were going to call this podcast. What were we going to call it? Zero fucks given. 0 fucks given. That's what we're going to call this podcast. If there's anything less than 0 fucks given, that is the current format of Head to Head. It's just this vessel for Ryan and I to just do whatever the fuck we like, publish it, and it just doesn't matter. I will recap for those who haven't listened to Head to Head. If you want to go back and what are you missing? The last three Christmas episodes, we go back three years and we talk about a nude female body part that looks a lot like uncooked bacon. By the way, those aren't my words, those aren't yours, those aren't Ryan's. No. That is Ryan's child who said this. So this is coming from the mouths of babes, if you will. That was that. The prolapsed asshole you mentioned a couple of years ago. And then what to do with the selfie mode on Dialed In was the last one. And how do you make that picture a lasting memory? Let's just say that. Yeah, correct. How do you get dialed in is really what that picture explains. So that's head to head. But the episode I listened to was the first of the Christmas episodes. So it was the first time you guys came back. Sure. And such structure. You still had it. I don't know if you had your Excel spreadsheet out or you had show notes for sure, which we fucking do not have. No. And you just, you were talking about, okay, let's go over the review of the year. Let's go over the games of the year. And the games of the year were Guns N' Roses, Led Zeppelin had just come out. Sure. Stranger Things, you guys beat the shit out of it. Yeah, that's true. And obviously the game has gotten a lot better. The layout is still the layout, but they've tweaked a few things here and there. They've made it a bash toy, all those kind of things. It's certainly come a long way, kind of like Walking Dead, right? The Walking Dead never changed the layout, but the rules changed and it made it a fun game. So you were talking about all these games and it was Rick and Morty had come out and it was neat to hear you do the reviews of the games, which in that year, so that was the end of 2020, this is before you were working at Haggis. In fact, you weren't working at all in 2020. Wow, I wasn't either, was I? You had quit your other job that you had for years and years and were a little stress-free now, but then you were selling Jurassic Park, your LE. Right, okay. I mean, it's a funny episode because Ryan talks about, is it a good price? And you're like, it is a price. It exists. It has numbers, there's a dollar sign in front of it. Yep. It was just funny and you were begrudgingly having to sell that game. Yeah. It was a neat episode. There were other things I want to get. Well, let's do it right now. At the end of the episode, you did something that was almost a staple of head to head. And I don't know if we have any staples on this show. Sometimes I get you to kill people and stuff like that. We do. That might appear later on this episode. No, no, not this episode. Oh, do you want to kill somebody? Jeff, Jeff. Yes. It's appearing this episode. Fuck a duck. Oh, wow. Switching the tape. Fine. Fine. Fine. Fine. If you remember what we talked about before we recorded, I think you'll know what's coming. I don't remember. Oh, shit. Oh, fuck. Okay, you were doing a little skit that you guys used to do called... that you actually ripped off the Slam Tilt Podcast. So you called it Slam the Top 100. Oh, I do remember that. It was fun because you'd fake Google and you'd say, Google, pick a number between one and 100. And you'd give Ryan like a shitty one in the 70s. And Google, pick mine. Oh, number 10. And then you'd have to... No, guaranteed, guaranteed those numbers were legit. Guaranteed. I can tell you now. What also was legit was Ryan would go first, he'd plug his game away and you would read off a flyer like you always do. True. Sure. And it was... Only when I didn't know the game. The game was Flash Gordon. Yeah, I just felt maybe the flyer could say it better than I could. Didn't sound like you were reading at all. No, not at all. Okay. Sure. Let's bring back that little... Do you know what's interesting? This is fucking weird. I've actually already got the tab open on the Pinside Top 100 and I was, before we recorded, thinking, oh, this would be interesting if we could bring back the random pinball generator, which Nate from Coast to Coast used to do, and talk about a game in the Top 100. That was as far as it went. But I've actually still got the tab open right in front of me. We'll do it next week. Okay. We'll do it the way the Slam the Top 100 feature did on Head to Head. Okay, sure. So, but not this episode. We're going to do a variation of it just to get people eased into it. Oh, what the appetite. I get a lot of feedback. I really do. What's Marty's beef with Elwin? And I'm like, I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. I do. Ten emails a day, maybe. I don't know. So a couple of texts. No, but I do get asked that. I'm like, first of all, it's schtick. I think Marty has, if I'm being honest, I think he has trouble admitting sometimes he may be wrong. Yeah, so. He will not back down on that seasoned veteran thing. He will not. Ever. And so just randomly, just listening to that episode, you're talking about how you loved John Borg. This is 2020, December 2020. Oh, okay. So you're, I'll give you this. You are consistent. You've always been a massive Borg fan and I am too, and we all are. He makes great games. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Bowen Kerins, Laser Los, orbit ramps, Lyman F. Sheats Jr.., Automated Amusements, Joe Kaminkow, Python Anghelo, Laser Los, orbit ramps, Tim Tim Kitzrow, Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. I'm going to put a winner there by the way. Both have Lyman code, so both Borg designs. Both Lyman code changed the game, like really enhanced it. But if I had to have either of those games in my house, I would pick Walking Dead. Well, you picked 1B, that's fine. It's a great game, no question about it. Metallica is the better game. But the funny thing is I kind of agree with you and I've always said that Metallica is Stern's best game that they've ever made, up until Jurassic Park. I think Jurassic Park is my best. Now here's where this fun part goes with slam the top 100. I will defend what you just said is my boy Keith Elwin's, you could have picked any game but you just said his best is Jurassic Park. I think it is true. Yep. I agree. For the next 60 seconds you will tell me why The Walking Dead is better than Jurassic Park and then I'll have 60 seconds and then as the show went we'll go 30 seconds to attack The other one. So it's more raw raw for the first 60 seconds each and then bashing the other person's stupid argument. So good luck to you Marty. Do you want to grab a flyer? Marty Cagan No, I can go first. I can go first, yeah. So which one am I picking? Metallica. John Popadiuk Yeah, hold on. Just type in Walking Dead flyer awards blah blah blah. Marty Cagan Wait, wait a second. Am I doing Walking Dead or am I doing Metallica? John Popadiuk Stalling is what you're doing but Walking Dead is the one you're doing because you said that was, you had to pick that. I would have chosen Metallica. You would have had a better argument. You still would have lost, but still. No, I- this is what I said. If I had one in my home, I would pick Walking Dead, but I still reckon Metallica is the better game. It's what I said. Did you not listen? I said Metallica is the better game. Do you want to switch to Metallica? You can pick either one. Um, yeah, look, I will- I don't know, I mean, I've- Fucking get off the fence. Doesn't it hurt? Pick one for me. If you want a chance to win, you pick Metallica. Okay, let's go Metallica. Go ahead. 60 seconds on the clock. Okay, first thing I'm going to start with is the art by Donny Gillies (Dirty Donny), which absolutely revolutionized the art in pinball. It's when people went, I didn't know a game could look this good. Then you've got Lyman code over the top of it. What's great about Metallica code is that you are always in a mode. You just don't know that you're in a mode because you're either going for Sparky, you're You're either going for the snake, you're either going for the ramps, which is the, I don't know, whatever it is, is it Lady Justice? I don't know. But working your way up to what could possibly be one of the best mini wizard mode where you actually have the options. My favorite is Fade to Black because I think Fade to Black is Metallica's best game. Where all the lights just go down, down and down. It is best song. But then the lights go down until it's all just blue. It lets you play the playfield rather than just making you concentrate on one thing. That's what I love about Metallica. You as a player have choice. That's all I got. Yeah. Okay. Jurassic Park by Keith Elwin, the seasoned veteran. My goodness, God. This is his second game mass produced after the smash hit that is Iron Maiden. It is the Twippy Award winner. It was released at Pinburgh. Everybody got to see several of these machines. The lineups were ridiculous and still to this day they're still making the game. The game was perfect and then you know what they said? You know what we're going to throw in another code. We're going to add this Nedry thing here. Oh my god it's better I got to get it. So good they vaulted it 30th anniversary Whether you have the pro pro is absolutely fine You got multiple flippers It always fun to have three flippers That tough shot through the pops the paddocks the dinosaur that moves is something that certainly people like You owned the LE and you said you never got sick of it So Jurassic Park probably perfect code Tough shooter my god you can spell chaos you can do raptor multiball There just so much there System boot ugh it goes on and on and on Jurassic Park the better game Okay, Jurassic Park is known as the hardest game in pinball. So hard, in fact, people say it's not enjoyable. I know someone who's got a collection of games and everybody that comes over will play every other game except for Jurassic Park because they say this is not fun. And that's not even the O shot. Don't even like, you know, guys, we can never hit the O shot. Let's just face it. But this one, This is sexist, this game. I've got nothing. It's a fucking great game. But it's fucking, it's hard. It's hard and it breaks all the time. It's just a game that Stern's made that just breaks all the time. That last bit's not true. It's not true. I'm like, please don't hate me, Keith. I love you. Well, I love Metallica. So it's hard for me to bash this but there are some I do think it's one of their best games of all time it is the great Lyman code unfortunately it's not the hardest game to play because if you're playing to a novice you know try to describe Jurassic Park and hit the white shot start t-rex you got to really get into it which makes you want to play again and again again Metallica oh what do I do see that sparky just hit it over and over again good things will happen all right and good things can happen and that's The music is not to everyone's liking. That's a big factor for sure because how many people have changed it whether it's with pin sound or whatever to change the music. Donny Gillies (Dirty Donny) Art, yeah, it's great. It's unique. He kind of did it again on Aerosmith and then where did it go? What happened? That's it. You're done? You're done? Come on. You're running out of stuff. You're running out of gin. Do you know what? I literally just took my last sip of gin. It's true. Okay, listeners who failed to email us. No, that's actually not true. We did get an email. But let us know who won, slammed the top 100, and was it Jurassic Park or Metallica? Who had the better argument? Okay? Correct. And keep in mind, as you listen back and hear all the points, just how much Marty bashed Keith Elwin. Just keep that in mind. That's all I want to say. So when you listen back, just note how much Jeff didn't actually talk about Jurassic Park in his first section. He actually didn't talk about the game. Like, didn't mention the layout, didn't mention the sound, didn't mention... No, he barely said... System boot, going through the pops. That, he just talked shit. Raptor multiball, T-Rex. Everyone knows, I've won. Yeah, a lot of it. How dare you say I've got a problem with not winning. Adil Jain, ps. junkiro найil ÖD gettra. Transcribe it. Like, I'll give yourself some time. We can do it at the end of the show. Hey, Spotify, iTunes, transcribe this and we'll see if they come close to it. So work on your word. Don't give you a little bit of time unless you've got one right now. Well, yeah, hopefully they know how to translate Australian. It was actually funny enough. Somebody, fuck, what's his name? Alan, Alan Hecht? Is it Alan Hecht? Somebody I know? Yeah, you do. Cut this until I get this. No, I had to put my fucking balding thing in there where I couldn't remember. No, it's Jason. Jason Hecht. Jason. I know Jason. You know Jason. His wife Elaine messaged me the other day. She said, we're at an Australian-style restaurant here in Arizona and the signs on the bathroom ... fuck, I'm ... yeah. Keeping that all in. That's all in. Transcribe that. Yeah. This is ... you've got your work cut up here. She said, the signs on the bathroom doors say, Sheilas and Blokes. Is that what you guys call men and women? That's slang. Yeah. Have you ever heard the term, sheilas and blokes? I haven't heard blokes. I've heard sheilas a lot. Yeah. But I mean, it's more making fun of Australians. I mean, you don't need to do that. There's lots of things you can do. Oh, gotcha. Absolutely. Yeah, especially people visiting from Canada. What a joke they are. Just keep going to New Zealand. It's much better. Yeah. Sheilas and blokes is actually, yes. Sheila is a woman. Native,lesbian, woolen,81- เศュリアン、ベルト famous greasy does much longer, cause you might get То Vulcan, Wild Kwanght, I've been watching a bunch of streams lately and I love watching all kinds of different ones. I must follow a hundred. Whenever there's a competition I like to watch that. For the love of God people, if you're commentating and there's somebody else commentating and somebody is talking, let the other person finish as opposed to talking over each other. Holy fuck is it ever annoying. And to prove that to you right now, Marty and I for the next minute are not going to let each other talk. Marty, what's on your mind right now? Well, I agree with you about... No, I don't care. You're an idiot. Whatever you're going to say, bullshit. You're a fucking liar. No, I always... I listen. You're the fucking... When are you... Fuck you. Steve loves... I mean, if you want more of that, we can do that. I just prefer that we separate. We can absolutely do that. By the way, transcribe that part. Yeah, good one. Now, okay, really good segue. Speaking of Steven Bowden. Yes, sir. Can we talk about American Pinball? Yes. Because I have feelings. I have feelings. I have thoughts. I have some words that I feel I need to say. There was an article that reported on the fact that American pinball, oh, maybe, potentially, allegedly up for sale. Yeah, I saw that. Well, I know you saw that because you then got Dave Ix on and then did an episode about it. What happened was somebody on a stream mentioned that they got a text saying that AIMTRON, who's the parent of American Pinball, was looking for a buyer. Then there was a news article that was produced and then everybody was dumping stock everywhere. Hmm. Oh, it's terrible and that's why they're not answering calls and that's why this, oh, it's end of days, it's Armageddon, it's all over. And then American people came out and went, it's fucking bullshit. Yeah. Not their exact words, but they're like, it is absolutely not true. So that rumor started on our friends podcast on the pinball party podcast. Sure. It was kind of at the end of the show. Sure. And it was, it was Kyle that had said it, but I'm frustrated because I work for a pinball company and I'm frustrated because that is really poor journalism. That you heard a rumor, you posted an article because you desperately wanted to be the first person to mention it, without actually validating that rumor caused all this angst and then American people come out going, it was categorically not true. So it's frustrating for me because that just causes noise and headaches and problems for I think it's a problem too. And have you ever wondered, because I certainly do, all kidding aside that we do on this podcast, The fun I do on other podcasts and commentating and all that kind of stuff. My bread and butter job is being a broadcaster for 30 years and knowing the laws. And what you say can sometimes be slander, which is illegal. If you're going to write this, it's liable. You need to be very careful. And I've often wondered how many podcasters, how many journalists or bloggers, if you will, really know those laws. And they better be fucking careful. No, but I know that you know, because I just for you listener, there's been some times when I've said something, or when I've told Jeff that I want to say something and he's like, Well, hang on, you've got to be mindful that bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And I'm like, Okay, shit, I fucking won't say it then. Because absolutely, I do not want to get in trouble. If Keith knew what we cut out with you said about him, he would be What's this thing about Keith? I love Keith. Keith is awesome. I'm giving my fucking roussac. Not many people can say that. I know a lot of people with a roussac, so come on. From me, there was only eight of them. Yeah. Anyway. Scott Danesi was another one. Yeah. Keep going. Anyway, so the thing of it is, is that I think about... Here we go. I think about the people at American Pinball, right? The people that we know. And the two main people that I know are now part of Who Will Jeff Kill? All. See? ¿llAndjerst Army Noah Ogle Ant갈 Today earns You love there right. Now right. This She good thing , I'm a patient system flow , in Jeff, you're the person that can warn the person to get out of the way and the other person will be incinerated by that piece of equipment. Who will it be? Who will you call to say, hey, get out of the way? Is it going to be Steven Bowden or David Fix? You know both those people listen to this podcast, right? Yes! I know exactly what I'm doing. Damn you. Okay. This is an easy one, as Marty likes to say once in a while. This is a piece of cake. Sure. What you don't realize about these two gentlemen is they're both very, very gracious. You know, if you were to ask them individually, you have a chance to save yourself or the other person. They're both going to say, I'm saving the other person. You know, they're jumping on the grenade, if you will. So it's a battle of who gets there first, really. And this has nothing to do with who's going to win in a foot race, because they're both going to try to save each other, but David Fix is going to be the one to push Keith out Offensive There are actually grappling hooks in there. So he's locking on the grappling hook to one end, pushing Steve away. And as the explosion happens, sure, he gets a little burnt, little, there might be some problems there, but he is swinging to his freedom by hanging on that grappling hook of a mustache. It's saving his life. Sure. So you're making a lot of stuff up, first of all. But I really just want to summarise by saying, so you've called Steven Bowden and said, Stephen, get out of the way. And you've said, David Fix, you're on your own. Do what, like, if you've got all your MacGyver stuff, sure. But ultimately, what you've said is, I am only going to guarantee that Steven Bowden survives. David Fix, you're on your own. Hold on. That's all it is. It's just ones and zeros here. That's it. You've either got to save one, amateur arrow this time. I'm going to read the transcribe from... are you talking over me again? Because you better not talk over me. I don't want to hear you talk over me. I don't want to hear you talk over me. This is bullshit. I'm trying to say something and you're laughing in the background. I've got a point to say. You still are laughing. I just love the bit where you go, don't talk to me, don't talk to me. I'm telling you right now. Stop. Oh my god, I love that. Don't talk over me! I told you not to! I'm talking right now. I've got this on me. Alright, I'm the one. Please don't go over me. Hey. Are you done? If you go back and listen to the transcribe, you will see that you worded the question, the other person saves the other person. I have no decision on it. I said you've got to call them. I said... Fine. Fine. So you want David Vick to die? That's what you're saying? Cool. Good. Got it. No That would be slander You know the selfish person in me would say actually kill Steven Bowden because he a fucking great pinball player and I trying to compete against him I just think Dave Fix finds a way to get You gave me one of those bullshits and arrows like the deserted island You said Mrs Pin will make a boat blah blah blah So I getting out of it the same way you getting out of it Yeah, I've had years of practice of trying to find a loophole and get my way out of it. This is your first attempt. Just like playing pinball tournaments in Australia, one for one baby, the winner. Yep, that's right, one cock mug and there you go. Big cock. What else? So, okay, well we talked about it before, I just wanted to note that of the ones that I know, so our state championships happened in Australia, right? Yes. So your mate Tony Chirillo from WA, so you've met him when he came over to INDISC, he won the Western Australia Championships. Paul Jones, PJ, awesome guy from New South Wales, he won. Simon Peel, now you know Simon Peel. Peely's great, yep. Peely is awesome, he won Victoria. And Jason Lambert, yet again, won Queensland. All I'm gonna say is, all I'm gonna say is this. I know, look, there's other states as well, I don't know their results, I'm sorry guys, but I wanna say this, those four people are all awesome. Yep. But fuck we love an underdog, don't we? Like, all these four people are the best. I'm like, oh, okay, the best people won. But the way this competition works is anyone can win on any given day, no question about it. But it is usually the better person prevails because it's not just one game, it's several games. I don't know if Australia had the same rules, but we had to play a best of, I think, six, first person to four. But if it was tied three to three, it would go to a seventh game or maybe nine games, I can't remember. And usually those people prevail. So, when you mentioned all those names, I'm like, yeah, they're great players, so... They're like the best. They're the best of the best. Yeah. They really are. They really are the best of the best in each state. But normally you'd go, okay, there's three names you go expect and then there's one, ooh, that's a bit of a wild card. I'll give you a wild card. Do you know who won? Do you know who won one of our provinces? No. Orby Albert. Oh, no way. We did it. He won out in the Maritimes, which great guy. But yeah, the uh... He won out in the where? Maritimes. Okay, I don't know what that is. I don't know if he won on Prince Edward Island or Nova Scotia or New Brunswick. He won one of those. I'm sorry, Orby, I forget which one. But there you go. Pinball Nerds Podcast representing... Yeah, well done, Orby. So there's your underdog. Okay, cool. That's good. And so when do we see the Nationals? When is that happening? Early March at District 82. It's kind of back to back, I believe, I'm pretty sure, with Pin Masters, one of the Stern Pro Circuit events. So I think they do the North American Championship Series to begin with and then Pin Masters goes on. So that's kind of a, it's a tough tournament to get in. I think only 58 players. So the combination of the states and the provinces. And the winner of that, if they already aren't in the world championships, will get to go All these things you can do by watching this video. We hope you enjoy it! We'll see you next time! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! What's the ladder format? Stern Pro Circuit used to do that and they quickly, the one that Karl won, they pretty much, it was a one and done. They kind of did something similar to that. I think there were kind of group match plays and then it went to a ladder format. I think that's the one Josh Sharpe won the very first year of the Stern Pro Circuit and then they've stopped doing that since. It's just, sorry to say this, it's a shitty, shitty format. No! It's fucking terrible. No. Do you know what? It's really shitty because you can travel all the way across the world or the country and get out in round one. That's a bit shitty. But as a spectator, it was kind of interesting. Okay, I disagree. I didn't find it interesting at all. I just think it's, I just felt for the players being in that position and... But wasn't there another tournament on at the same time? So it wasn't... Let me give you an example. Stern Pro Circuit, the same tournament we were talking about, the ladder format. I had to put my very first time ever at the Stern Pro Circuit. They took the top 40 players. I was 40th, dead last. In my group, Trent Augenstein, Bowen Kerins, and your nemesis Keith Elwin. Those are three of the greatest players certainly of the last few years, if not all time. Trent has probably played more tournaments than maybe anybody in the world next to Bob Matthews, so he certainly knows what he's doing. Did very well. Keith Elwin the goat and Bowen is one of the all time greats. We watch his videos, his tutorials. So the first game we played was Meteor and just imagine if this was some sort of ladder match. I came in second. I beat Bowen and Keith on that game. If that was to eliminate Bowen and Keith, that would have sucked because the better players prevailed because they did better on the next two games and that knocked me out. I think Bowen and I both got knocked out. Keith and Trent advanced. So one game format, no, I don't like it at all. Okay, cool. As a spectator, it was lots of fun. And I say that because I don't know what year it was where somebody just, I don't know, they might have started... For those people that don't, can you explain the latter for me? Because there's probably people here going, what the fuck are you talking about? But is it something that's easy to explain? Yeah, in mainstream, if you watch the last Austin Powers movie, you'll see Dr. Evil The next person who will climb a ladder and right behind him is Austin Powers and he goes, Dr. Evil, I always knew you were crazy but now I can see you're nuts. I like you very much. As he's looking up his crotch. That's the ladder format. Oh no, that's not it. I'm sorry. The ladder format is you've got four people in a game, you're playing one game, whoever comes in last, see you later. You're gone. And then the next highest ranked person joins the group of four. So as one person gets knocked out, the next one up comes up. So I just remember there was one year. I can't remember who it was. If you mention it, I'll remember it, but obviously. And it was somebody that came in probably in like round three and they just made it all the way to the end, every round, round after round. Who was it? So the old Papa championships used to be like that, I believe. So it used to be the Papa circuit before it was the Stern Pro circuit and it was top 20. And coming in at number 20 based on one or two tournaments that they played was a man By the name of Daniele Acari from Italy, he was 20th and ran the gauntlet and won it all. I'm going to go through the gauntlet. It's and I just remember the chat was going bananas because everybody, every single person was just all on this one person just get through, keep going, keep going, keep going. It was awesome. But I totally agree with you. If you're just in and then you're out first round, how much fun was that as an actual player? Not a lot. I'd imagine. I think I had some conversations with Josh Sharpe this week. All kidding aside, we're friends and I love the work he does. I think he is wonderful for competitive pinball. There, I said it. And he cares. And I do think not everything is perfect. I don't like the rule change here in 2024 that says if you're playing in a tournament and a lot of Sundays you would see kind of like a three strikes tournament, almost like a consolation tournament, and you would have players be playing in the playoffs and then There would be this three strike tournament or something like that also running for the people that didn't make the playoffs. Well, the new rule is those people in the playoffs, if they want to play in that three strikes, they're allowed to play and you have to wait for them to finish whatever game they're on in whichever tournament they're on. So you can imagine the logistical nightmare of how long that would take as you're waiting in both tournaments for this one. and I'm going to say it out loud, selfish person who has to have both of those. Now I also side with him in the sense that if you were paying for a whole weekend of tournaments and you didn't get to pay that, that's also bullshit. So maybe you get refunded whatever the streak strikes tournament happened. But to want to play both, come on. That's just, to Josh it's a scheduling error, not a player error. I said to him, well, as somebody who runs tournaments, you think of the people coming out of town who are renting a hotel room on that Saturday night and they don't know if they're going to make the playoffs until Saturday night at midnight. They're already there. They want something to do Sunday. Give them something to do Sunday and he suggested doing other format tournaments and those are possible too or do what INDISC did and they just ran a Sunday tournament that wasn't IFPA. So those are other options now. Okay, cool. Did you even listen to any of that? No, none of it. What a fucking... here's the word right now. You... You said Josh and I'm like, uh, okay. Why? More changes to Whoppers. By the way, Josh noticed our last episode when I bagged the Pulp Fiction code. I have noticed in watching Karl Karl DeAngelo, the code has changed slightly and kudos to making the changes to make the modes worth a little more and, you know, that observation The discussion at INDISC was noticed by a few people and good on Josh and Raw Thrills and Chicago Gaming and everyone involved in that to make those changes for a very fun game. So I told Josh, I said I will respond to what we said last episode that good on you. I mean, hey listen, like we just talked about Jaws. He noticed something right away with people backhanding that little switch back and forth and back and forth from 50,000 points and they'd be there all day. I made it 10 points. Like, so in the case of the modes, he's now made certain modes worth more and how the, I forgot what the grand mode is. It's basically how you do in the other modes determines the jackpot. Brilliant. Quick fix. Well done. Game's awesome. Yeah. Look, obviously, you know, I watch every time someone's streaming Fathom, I watch it because I want to see how they're playing and what they're enjoying and what they're not enjoying. So I can make enhancements if I need to. Are there a lot of streams out there for the revisited? Yeah, if you watch Pride Pinball, Pride Pinball is the one that streams the most. Okay. So, thanks Pride Pinball, you're awesome. But yeah. Alright, we'll check it out. I'll see if they've got some VODs. I think Spotify's already, I don't think we need to come up with any stupid words or anything like that because... No, I think we're speaking Canadian and Australian, that's enough. Anything else, Marty? No, that's really it. We are recording this on Saturday, February the 10th here, so Sunday afternoon for you here in North America and really globally. The big thing is happening tomorrow. It's the Super Bowl. Marty, do you even know who's playing in the Super Bowl? No, I have no idea. I am assuming it's golf. Super Bowl is football. Okay. What I love about Australia is you actually have a holiday for the... Is it the grand final? Yeah, we call it the grand final, AFL grand final. Yeah, we do actually have a public holiday the day before. The day before? Yep, it's not even on the day, it's the day before. What day of the week is the grand final? Saturday. So everyone's off Sunday anyway. So the Super Bowl, it happens on Sunday and it's the most watched television event of the year. It even does better than Eurovision. Eurovision does well, but Super Bowl is really it. I mean, it's $7 million to run a 30-second commercial on the Super Bowl. Now, playing in it are the San Francisco 49ers and the Kansas City Chiefs. Do you know anything about the Kansas City Chiefs and maybe their number one fan? No, but I know the 49ers. They had a really good Italo House song in the 90s. There is a big fan of the Kansas City Chiefs who happens to be dating one of the tight end players. Have you Googled? Have you Googled? That's the name of the position? Yeah, tight end. Am I Googling tight end? No. God, no. Safe results on. She goes by the name of Taylor Swift. Maybe you've heard of her? Sure. She is playing a concert. Actually, as we speak, right now, Saturday night, might be done depending on the time. She's probably done. In Tokyo, I think that's where she's playing in Japan. So she's got to fly back to Vegas for the Super Bowl, but TV is all All over her and anyway. I just want you and I to predict the score of the game. You pick who you think is going to win the game. Is it going to be San Francisco or Kansas City? Who is the 49ers? San Francisco 49ers. Yep. They're going to win. Are you sure? Yes. I'm absolutely positive. But Kansas City Chiefs are really good too. Which one is it going to be? Kansas City Chiefs. And I think the score is going to be 25-22, probably in overtime. So I'll try to get this out as quickly as possible so you can make some gambling bets. There's $23 billion being bet on this. Yes, that is true. That's pretty sick. I think that's just in the US alone. Always trust Final Round to give you the goods. We know what the... When it comes to sports, Marty. Oh, man. Come on. I am all over them sports. I don't want to talk over each other, but let's talk sports for a second. Oh fuck, what do you think? Is it football? No, I gotta tell you though, I'm really disappointed now that Usher is who's gonna be the half prime. Yeah, that's fine. I was more of a lady gaga. Who the hell? But football's big here in North America. He hasn't even had a song in years. Anyway, the point is, alright, good luck Spotify. Alright, thanks everybody. See ya! Bye! _(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_ --- *Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 5049a187-d17b-4981-8d98-2b9fd0a14c2b*