# Triple Drain Pinball Podcast Ep 4: Jingles Make Everything Better **Source:** Triple Drain Pinball Podcast **Type:** podcast_episode **Published:** 2021-07-21 **Duration:** 101m 4s **Beat:** Pinball **URL:** https://zencastr.com/z/LuiOutSv --- ## Analysis Triple Drain Podcast hosts Joel, Travis, and Tom discuss the Spooky Pinball Halloween and Ultraman releases, focusing on design philosophy concerns around flow, scoop mechanics, playfield layout, and the absence of early gameplay footage. They debate whether the multi-tiered playfields constitute true 'flow-based' pinball and speculate on code quality as the determining factor for long-term game success, while praising the art direction and sales performance. ### Key Claims - [HIGH] Spooky sold out all Halloween and Ultraman units within hours of announcement — _Joel and Travis confirm sold-out status and discuss immediate sellout in conversation_ - [MEDIUM] Spooky Luke and Bug appear to be the primary designers driving Halloween and Ultraman, with more involvement than Charlie Emery based on podcast interview appearances — _Joel states 'listening to the podcast, I did not realize, like, to be honest, Spooky Luke, Spooky Luke is like, he is the dude leading this game' and notes Spooky Luke and Bug are 'the big brain of this game'_ - [HIGH] Spooky Luke admitted he knew nothing about pinball before starting at Spooky — _Joel: 'Spooky Luke admits he knows knew nothing about pinball before he started at spooky'_ - [HIGH] The Halloween and Ultraman games use elevator/subway mechanics under the playfield to return balls to flippers instead of traditional scoop ejection to manage chaos and improve control — _Travis explains: 'they've completely removed that and now made it so the ball is safely delivering it back to the flipper' and cites Bug's design rationale_ - [HIGH] Tom Graff does not own Halloween or Ultraman because he is not a horror fan and has concerns about upper playfields/mini-playfields — _Tom explicitly states 'I'm just not a horror fan' and 'i'm not a big fan of mini playfields'_ - [MEDIUM] Matt Frank (a kaiju/scene-specific artist) created the art for Ultraman and likely Halloween — _Joel references 'This Week in Pinball' source: 'it was matt frank i think that did it' and describes Frank as doing 'kaiju based art'_ - [HIGH] Code quality is the most uncertain and critical factor determining long-term game success and secondary market value for Spooky's releases — _Travis: 'code usually the code is what keeps a game around and so that that's the biggest uncertainty right now' and extended discussion of how code affects replay value_ - [HIGH] Stranger Things pinball experienced significant code improvements between initial 2020 reveal stream and 2021, going from poor player reception to becoming a highly-desired game — _Tom and Joel discuss Stranger Things trajectory: 'it just got way better as as time went on' and Tom notes he backed out of LE initially but later purchased Pro after code improvements_ - [HIGH] Charlie Emery agreed to appear on Triple Drain podcast but requested to wait a few weeks until the games were officially revealed — _Tom confirms 'charlie absolutely said yes but give me a few weeks until the game's revealed'_ - [HIGH] Jason Libel (jingle composer) created both the 'Tom Talks' segment jingle and the Triple Drain intro jingle within days of request with minimal direction — _Joel: 'it was like within a day he just sent you a jingle' and 'boom, here's your intro. And incredible.'_ ### Notable Quotes > "Spooky Luke is like, he is the dude leading this game. Um, I know I understand they've made it very much a group effort, but at least on, um, the few podcasts I've learned, like Spooky Luke, it almost seems like he has like more involvement in this game, Spooky and Bug than, than Charlie." > — **Joel**, ~8:30 > _Establishes Spooky Luke and Bug as primary creative drivers despite being newcomers to pinball design_ > "They're basically like, what if we hit scoops that become a subway? That way it feeds the flipper in a reliable manner. So now all of a sudden the chaos of a scoop where it spits it back out on you, they've completely removed that and now made it so the ball is safely delivering it back to the flipper." > — **Travis**, ~12:45 > _Explains Spooky's novel design philosophy for scoop mechanics and elevator system rationale_ > "I'm a little bit worried whenever I look at that layout, and I keep hearing the term flow thrown around. And there's certain elements to this pin, if I have to be objective, or if I'm going to be objective, it doesn't strike me as a flow-based pin." > — **Travis**, ~10:00 > _Core design concern: debate over whether Spooky's layout achieves traditional 'flow' in pinball_ > "just stuffing a pin full of everything might not necessarily equate to fun. It just depends how it all comes together." > — **Travis (referencing George Gomez)**, ~22:00 > _Industry wisdom on design philosophy: mechanical features without cohesive execution can fail_ > "code usually the code is what keeps a game around and so that that's the biggest uncertainty right now" > — **Travis**, ~23:15 > _Identifies code quality as the critical unknown factor determining game longevity and value_ > "I think they'll sell out of Halloween, but I don't know about Ultraman until I saw the art. And the reality is if that art package would have been, you know, kind of Photoshoppy clips from the show, you know, if it wasn't modernized, if it wasn't cartooned, up you know by this artist i think i don't think they would have sold 250 ultraman" > — **Joel**, ~31:30 > _Art direction proved decisive for Ultraman sales despite unknown IP—theme-specific artist elevated theme appeal_ > "I did back out of one LE specifically when I saw it revealed and I saw the gameplay on it and that was Stranger Things when it first came out. And so when I realized that the code wasn't quite there, now, obviously, you know, fast forward, it's 2021, nearly two years later or closing in a year and a half later, it's going for more value." > — **Tom**, ~38:00 > _LE buyer decision-making informed by reveal stream gameplay; cautionary tale of code risk and eventual redemption_ > "Can you guys imagine how much money is going to be on the line or the actual gameplay reveal? I mean, think about this. They're all sold. so now it becomes a matter of if the game flips well and if it's a home run all of a sudden you're going to see some of those people that are front in line you're going to see some of those pop up for sale" > — **Joel**, ~40:30 > _Speculates on secondary market impact: sold-out status means gameplay reveal will drive resale/swapping dynamics_ > "I mean, here's the thing with Spooky, they're all spoken for. So they've sold out the allotment. Either way, they're going to be good. But this is going to be really telling." > — **Travis**, ~41:00 > _Emphasizes code reveal as defining moment for Spooky's reputation despite guaranteed sales_ > "I'm just not a horror fan So really Halloween was out. I just don't get into that genre, the gore and stuff." > — **Tom**, ~18:30 > _Collector purchasing rationale driven primarily by theme preference despite game quality_ ### Entities | Name | Type | Context | |------|------|---------| | Spooky Pinball | company | Boutique pinball manufacturer that recently released Halloween and Ultraman games; known for visual design quality and rapid sales success | | Spooky Luke | person | Co-designer at Spooky Pinball, appears to be primary creative lead on Halloween and Ultraman despite being a newcomer to pinball design industry | | Bug | person | Co-designer at Spooky Pinball working alongside Spooky Luke on Halloween and Ultraman; provides design rationale in podcast interviews | | Charlie Emery | person | Founder of Spooky Pinball; less visible in recent design discussions compared to Luke and Bug; scheduled to appear on Triple Drain podcast after games revealed | | Joel | person | Co-host of Triple Drain Pinball Podcast; pinball enthusiast and community observer with access to unreleased games through friends | | Travis | person | Co-host of Triple Drain Pinball Podcast; analytical game designer perspective, primary voice on playfield flow concerns and code uncertainty | | Tom Graff | person | Co-host of Triple Drain Pinball Podcast; dentist in Wisconsin, pinball collector, LE buyer on Stern releases; did not purchase Halloween or Ultraman | | Matt Frank | person | Artist who created visual artwork for Halloween and Ultraman; specializes in kaiju-based and scene-specific character art; credited with theme appeal driving Ultraman sales | | Jason Libel | person | Composer/jingle creator who produced Triple Drain intro and 'Tom Talks' segment jingles within days of request | | George Gomez | person | Industry designer quoted by Travis regarding design philosophy; warned about mechanical feature oversaturation not equating to fun | | Christopher Franchi | person | Artist who worked on Batman pinball for Stern; referenced as example of theme-specific artist integration similar to Matt Frank | | Keith Elwin | person | Professional pinball player cited as criticizing scoop-heavy game design for slowing gameplay | | Halloween (Spooky Pinball) | game | Recent Spooky release based on Michael Myers franchise; sold out immediately; features three-tiered playfields, multiple scoops with elevator return mechanics, controversial flow-based design | | Ultraman (Spooky Pinball) | game | Spooky release concurrent with Halloween; Japanese kaiju-themed IP; uses same playfield layout as Halloween but with different art/theme; 250 units produced, sold out immediately | | Stranger Things (Stern) | game | 2020 Stern release initially criticized for weak code; significantly improved over 18 months; case study in code update impact on secondary market value and player perception | | Amanda Ellie | game | Tom purchased as LE without seeing gameplay; had initial mechanical concerns (ball ejection issues) that were resolved; references Tom's LE buying process | | Mandalorian (Star Wars/unknown manufacturer) | game | Referenced as comparison for difficult scoop shot placement design challenges | | Shadow (pinball) | game | Referenced by Tom as example of upper playfield feature in his collection | | Game of Thrones (pinball) | game | Referenced by Travis as upper playfield example in his collection with visible return mechanisms | | White Water (pinball) | game | Classic pinball title; Tom displayed behind him as upper playfield reference point in discussion | | Deadpool (pinball) | game | Referenced by Travis as part of Tim Lee's extensive home collection; mentioned in context of game popularity comparison | | Guns N Roses (pinball) | game | Referenced as part of Tim Lee's home collection; implicit comparison point for game play frequency | | Avengers (pinball) | game | Referenced as part of Tim Lee's home collection | | Tim Lee | person | Home collector with 10+ game basement collection; reported Stranger Things as most-played game during family gathering despite owning multiple premium titles | | Triple Drain Pinball Podcast | organization | Pinball podcast hosted by Joel, Travis, and Tom Graff; producing community content and industry analysis | ### Topics - **Primary:** Spooky Pinball design philosophy and execution, Flow-based playfield design vs. scoop-heavy mechanics, Code quality as determinant of game longevity, Art direction and theme-specific artist impact on sales - **Secondary:** LE buyer decision-making and reveal stream influence, Secondary market speculation and resale potential, Upper playfields and playfield complexity - **Mentioned:** Game design as multi-discipline effort with emerging talent ### Sentiment **Mixed** (0.55) — Hosts express excitement about Spooky's visual presentation and sales success but carry significant uncertainty and skepticism about gameplay execution, flow design, and code quality. Cautiously optimistic tone tempered by design philosophy concerns and lack of gameplay evidence. Tom's non-purchase reflects theme-based reservations rather than manufacturer confidence issues. ### Signals - **[community_signal]** LE buyer decision-making increasingly influenced by reveal stream gameplay quality rather than theme or pre-order commitment; secondary market pricing now explicitly tied to code performance trajectory (confidence: high) — Tom's Stranger Things LE withdrawal example and discussion of how code updates affect resale value and purchase regret - **[event_signal]** Spooky's strategy of delaying gameplay reveal until after sales completed; hosts speculate on impact timing of reveal stream on secondary market trading and mod community engagement (confidence: medium) — Discussion of whether gameplay reveal will trigger fire sales or resale swaps among LE buyers - **[product_concern]** Design concern: Halloween and Ultraman combine multiple scoops, drop targets, and upper playfields creating visual complexity that may not translate to cohesive gameplay despite impressive aesthetics (confidence: high) — Travis: 'this looks like it's a bunch of ideas just thrown together' and reference to Gomez quote about mechanical feature oversaturation not equating to fun - **[design_philosophy]** Theme-specific artist strategy (Matt Frank for Ultraman/Halloween, mirroring Stern's Christopher Franchi approach) emerging as key differentiation factor; manufacturer commitment to maintaining artist relationships viewed as critical long-term asset (confidence: high) — Joel: 'good for them for for finding a scene, a theme specific artist' and 'I think you ever let this artist go if you spooky like You keep him occupied keep him doing art' - **[design_philosophy]** Spooky's elevator/subway scoop return mechanic represents departure from traditional pinball flow concept; hosts debate whether safe ball return via underground mechanics constitutes legitimate 'flow' or removes core chaotic appeal of scoop shots (confidence: high) — Travis: 'Nothing about the right side of the pin indicates flow to me. I see potential for a lot of missed shots' and extended discussion of scoop mechanics and elevator design rationale - **[market_signal]** Immediate sell-out of all Halloween and Ultraman units within hours of announcement driven primarily by visual art package and theme-specific artist reputation rather than gameplay evidence or design pedigree (confidence: high) — Joel: 'if that art package would have been, you know, kind of Photoshoppy clips from the show... i think i don't think they would have sold 250 ultraman but i i think truly i think the that artist did such a great job' - **[personnel_signal]** Spooky Luke and Bug, young designers with minimal pinball experience before joining Spooky, are emerging as primary creative drivers despite Charlie Emery founding the company; represents youth-led design innovation with unknown execution capability (confidence: high) — Joel: 'Spooky Luke admits he knows knew nothing about pinball before he started at spooky' and 'they're young spooky. Luke admits he knew nothing about pinball before he started at spooky' - **[personnel_signal]** Charlie Emery's reduced visibility in recent Spooky marketing and podcast interviews compared to Spooky Luke and Bug; represents potential leadership transition or changed role focus (confidence: medium) — Joel observation: Spooky Luke and Bug appear to have more podcast involvement discussing design; Charlie agreed to appear on Triple Drain but only after 'a few weeks' post-reveal - **[market_signal]** Spooky's immediate sell-outs and secondary market speculation suggest strong collector demand and potential for significant post-release price premiums if gameplay delivers (confidence: medium) — Joel: 'you're going to see some of those people that are front in line you're going to see some of those pop up for sale and i think people would be willing to pay top dollar to jump the line' - **[product_concern]** Lack of early gameplay footage raises concerns about intentional quality concealment; hosts speculate Spooky deliberately avoiding reveal to protect early sales despite sold-out status (confidence: medium) — Joel: 'I feel like there's a reason why they haven't shown gameplay early on' and speculation about licensing limiting what can be shown - **[sentiment_shift]** Stranger Things case study demonstrates how significant code updates can rehabilitate poorly-received game and drive secondary market appreciation; establishes pattern where initial skepticism can be reversed through post-launch development (confidence: high) — Tom: 'I did back out of one LE specifically when I saw it revealed and I saw the gameplay' but later 'it's going for more value' after code improvements; Travis: 'it just got way better as as time went on' - **[technology_signal]** Debate over whether digital/under-playfield elevator mechanics constitute legitimate 'flow' in traditional pinball context; represents potential philosophical divide between classic pin mechanics and Spooky's modernized approach (confidence: medium) — Extended debate between Travis and Tom about whether elevator return counts as 'flow' vs. traditional scoop chaos --- ## Transcript the pinball network is online launching triple drain pinball podcast all right travis you ready big daddy's ready big dog god tom tom you ready let's go oh boy here we go we we we're three guys who like to talk and ball so we came up with the club our name we're joel and travis down the tongue and ball and we call ourselves triple drink triple drink triple drink we're triple triple drink man that is the best i i could not be more happy with that intro uh hello everybody i'm joel this is i'm here with travis and tom tom i mean come on man that's such a great intro i think i just made it in life right there uh yeah that was so here's the deal uh we have i want to know why joel gets top billing in the song joel and travis tommen talks i don't know i think it goes alphabetically i'll take it i'll take it does it or he did it in the order he comes before oh and the alphabet travis i believe so what oh no you're right damn it tom's a doctor man he's a dentist so we got to give a huge shout out to jason libel jason libel we made a joke last round that hey we would love a jingle for tom talks tom 24 hours right i mean it was within releasing the podcast It was like within a day he just sent you a jingle. It was quick. Yeah. So not a little foreshadowing here. I shouldn't say me, us. Well, yeah, but you are the social media guru, clearly. It's all that modeling experience. You are an influencer, if you didn't know that. But, yeah, so the guy sent us a Tom Talks jingle, which may or may not be played later, and blew us out of the water. And what, Tom, I think you emailed the guy right after that and was like, well, we need an intro jingle. And I think it was a day later, like a day after you sent that email, the guy, because he asked us for some direction. And I don't even think we sent him any. He just, boom, here's your intro. And incredible. I'm like, I think this is it, guys. Yeah. So, so, so good. It brings a legit smile to my face. Jason Leibel, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for supplying us that. So, yeah, guys, I'm pumped. Here we are, episode four. Yes. man we're just cruising along let me tell you i've had i know this term isn't used often in pinball but i've had so many fans contacting me just non-stop like and by fans i mean my wife asking me what am i doing yeah in my studio again on a sunday night but yeah we need to get monica on here as the extra balls at some point. No. Terrible idea. I know she's listening to us. I love you, sweetie. But man, I'm going to sleep with that woman tonight. I can't talk to her on the podcast. Maybe the listeners want a wives podcast. I don't know. Can we bring the wives on? Sure. I think we could bring them on for a short segment. But your whole, I got nothing, that would be my wife. She's the coolest. That would be mine, too. well see this is the problem mine would just start talking about hands made tell or whatever that is oh boy what's that show what is that like hands made it's a good show but it's it yeah tom you said your wife didn't even know you were recording a podcast right yeah yeah she's she's like oh you're doing travis's podcast i'm like no i have my own podcast now and she's like it's mine you Yeah. Oh, that's great. Well, episode four, uh, typically, you know, it's common to have an extra ball, believe it or not. We don't have an extra ball. Uh, we tried to get David Dennis. Thank God we didn't. Um, enough said. So I don't know. It's we, we decided, Hey, let's roll with it without one, you know, three ball game. Let's give it a shot. And, uh, we will, uh, yeah. So it's just us tonight. and you know what if anybody's wants to be an extra ball at some point in time hit us up triple drain at gmail.com uh extensive application process just a heads up um lots of steps that's all i gotta say absolutely but yeah let's just go ahead we're gonna knock out some news here um obviously the you know the easiest thing to talk about is spooky spooky spooky pinball in the last few weeks has killed it an awesome reveal killer sales now they're doing the pit all the podcasts um i don't know guys what are what are your thoughts on spooky i would say tom screwed this up completely you know i'm talking about tom no no what tom did we not ask charlie to be on our podcast we did yeah how'd that go tom he had better things to do no he did charlie absolutely said yes but give me a few weeks until the game's revealed and so we're like sweet and then the game's revealed and it's just boom every other podcast so we will have charlie on it'll just be a little while we're going to give it some breathing room that's what we're going to do We don't want to be fifth at the plate. We want to be first. Actually, I want to experience the game first before we get them on. That's a good idea. I have a good feeling I'm going to get to do that. Now, I did not buy the game, but I do have a friend who has, he's getting both Halloween and Ultraman. So what's making you believe that you're going to get to play these games then? This must be a good friend. Yeah, a lot of beer, drugs, and hookers. Okay, good. Well, hookers will definitely get you pinball. There's anything about pinball that... Look at Joel. Joel's like blushing right now. There's no blushing. Your wife is not going to let you do this podcast anymore, Joel. If we could not be further from the truth. Man, Tom, what a nuisance. I'm a dude talking to two other dudes about pinball in his basement right now. Exhilarating. Um, no. So what I will say, listening to the podcast, I did not realize, like, to be honest, Spooky Luke, Spooky Luke is like, he is the dude leading this game. Um, I know I understand they've made it very much a group effort, but at least on, um, the few podcasts I've learned, like Spooky Luke, it almost seems like he has like more involvement in this game, Spooky and Bug than, than Charlie. I mean, it's just like, this is, they are very much Spooky Luke and Bug are, it seems like they are the big brain of this game or these games. So that I feel is either super exciting or terrifying because they're, they're young spooky. Luke admits he knows knew nothing about pinball before he started at spooky. And, and yet they're coming in with a ton of fresh ideas that could be great or they could be huge misses. I, I, we don't know. We don't know. Yeah. And it's, I mean, it's one of those things too that we've talked about it kind of off podcast and i know we have various opinions on what we're seeing so is that what what we want to get into or do we want to talk about the release which one what do you think we're already there just let's talk about our opinion then we'll go back to release okay you want to go first tom or do you want me to go go ahead trivs i'm afraid and not because it's mike myers i'm a little bit worried i'm not gonna lie Okay, so I like the idea of a horror theme, right? I love the idea of that. I think that something like this is needed in pinball. I think the artwork is pretty badass, everything overall. I mean, it looks pretty cool. Like, I'm not going to lie, it looks dope. I'm just a little bit worried whenever I look at that layout, and I keep hearing the term flow thrown around. And there's certain elements to this pin, if I have to be objective, or if I'm going to be objective, it doesn't strike me as a flow-based pin. Nothing about seeing multiple scoops around there. Nothing about seeing drop targets blocking a ramp, which I think is actually a really good idea. I just don't think that that equates to flow. Nothing about the right side of the pin indicates flow to me. I see potential for a lot of missed shots i see potential for a lot of clunk down on the lower play field now that being said the upper playfields i think those look pretty cool i like the idea of a double-tiered play field i know that they're saying it's technically three playfields i guess i guess are they counting the return to the left side or where are they getting the third one from well there's there's um there's there is three levels because there's a staircase that goes up to another level and then it goes kind of Across and down. Doesn't it just return back, though? I'm assuming it does. Like a slipper up there? If it's printed wood, they count it as a playfield. Okay. So they're basically counting that like I count an extra room in my house because it has a closet. You have rooms within rooms. Yeah. Way to go, Travis. Okay. Perfect. Perfect. Okay. But that being said, I mean, it does. I'm not going to lie. The upper playfields look pretty dope. I like the idea of that being built in in the way that it is. So that part I really like. It's just one of those things that when I look at this pen, I just go back and forth. And again, this is without seeing it flipped. So my opinion could radically change. But I think they're going to have to make sure. And I feel like there's a reason why they haven't shown gameplay early on. And I do think it's smart not to show gameplay before you make sales and stuff like that. I've been on record saying that. but I'm also thinking that with this type of pin, they might need to make sure somebody like Bowen or somebody that has a high caliber player comes in to show off this machine. Because if you get somebody on here, that's an average player. I think it's going to, it's going to expose a lot of flaws on that lower play field. I think it's a high end risk of that, but that's not to say anything bad about the assets that they have on there. I mean, there is a lot of cool looking stuff, although I still don't know how to feel about the whack-a-mole Mike Myers on the left-hand side with the three bushes and three mics. You're saying because I am an average player, that's the reason they haven't asked me to do the reveal stream. That's what I hear? Most likely. Okay, that's fair. I think... Here's the thing. I just think when you're dealing with playfields that have scoops, that have a lot of targets, right? And if you look at this, you'll notice that even that right-hand scoop right underneath the jack-o'-lantern or the pumpkin. I'm not so sure. I was kind of worried about the Mandalorian scoop, but I look at this. I'm like, this could potentially be very tough to hit. Well, I think it's like scoops. That's what it sounds like. They have a ton of them, and I think it was Keith. Keith Elwin on another podcast has said he doesn't like scoops because it slows the game down. Absolutely. And this game is full of scoops. Now, what's also interesting is all of the scoops, I don't think any of the scoops actually spit it back out at you. And that's something that Bug and Luke both said is they said they feel like when a ball comes rocketing back at you, it's really hard to control. And so that's how these elevators came into play. They're basically like, what if we hit scoops that become a subway? That way it feeds the flipper in a reliable manner. So now all of a sudden the chaos of a scoop where it spits it back out on you, they've completely removed that and now made it so the ball is safely delivering it back to the flipper, which is awesome from a novice standpoint. That could be really helpful. But it also, like, I mean, that's a big part of pinball that they've removed and made it easier for you. Right. Well, does that equate to flow, though, if you hit into a scoop and there's basically like a subway or an elevator, it just returns it back to a flipper? I mean, technically, you hit a ramp and it goes down, you know, a habit trail and it returns it to the flipper. so right but again you get to see it actually doing something physical true you know what i mean like you can actually see the ball going i don't know like since it's happening underneath the play field does that still qualify as flow based that's the question what do you think tom i don't know solid answer thank you god it's so great having you here man yeah my god yeah i don't know how we got tom to be on this podcast now nobody has picked him up as a free agent thank you tom um well god it's so great having you on this i love it uh yeah i i know just the way that they talked about it though in one of the podcasts they did talk about comboing like if you do this and then you can go here you can hit this shot and it'll deliver it to this flipper and then you can hit that scoop and it'll go to this flipper so in their world yes as long as they can stay in a controlled manner one shot at a time they are viewing it as a combo which yeah okay i mean if it feels good at the end of the day if it's fun to shoot and it feels good then awesome i mean i sign me up um so signups i mean typically tom you buy everything right so why not why didn't you buy these two games um really two reasons one i'm just not a horror fan So really Halloween was out. I just don't get into that genre, the gore and stuff. I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but it's just not for me. Blood makes you squeamish, right? Which is hard to deal with as a dentist. No, no, it's not that. I'm just not into the slasher films. I don't tell you. I hate them too. I'm not a whore guy. How do you two not like slasher films? I just got done watching Fear Street yesterday. I mean, honestly, out of the big three, like Halloween, Friday the 13th, and... Get to that third one. Nightmare on Elm Street. Seriously, like Halloween, just out of the three, I just don't like it as much. So what about Ultraman then? Is there any appeal there? Not for me, because I didn't even know what Ultraman was. so what about this tom graff in wisconsin has no idea what ultraman from japan is is what you're saying tom graff that's correct now now did you know what ultraman was uh i didn't i i i don't i mean i heard about it a long time ago but the problem is i didn't look into it and i didn't think anything of it so it's one of those things where i know is associated with marvel just recently or maybe even a couple years ago because i'm a big marvel fan but i don't know it just didn't it didn't click with me but go ahead joel what were you going to ask tom well i was just so yeah can i finish talking her oh fine okay all right tom talks early all right go ahead the second part is i i'm not a big fan of mini playfields oh so where's the mini playfield at There's two of them. Yeah, there's like three of them. Those are upper playfields. Okay, upper playfields. Whatever you want to call it. It's the same thing. I'm trying to think of your collection. Do you have anything in your collection that has an upper playfield? You have a shadow. I have Game of Thrones. He has a playfield right behind him showing it with white water. That doesn't count. Why would that not count? It's not even has a flipper up there. It's not an upper playfield. it's just an extension what wait well hold on i i don't even know this is a ridiculous argument right here well we're about to get into this ridiculous argument what do you what do you mean is that not upper playfield tom graph it's it's not wow wow i can't argue with that okay piece of pizza tom said so okay you know what joel if we look at that play field you notice that big gap on that play field you notice that yeah that's because that's where the upper play field goes ah no gotcha oh you're saying on the play field behind tom yeah i up on that yeah yeah you see that question tom right i mean this doctor dennis oh my gosh yeah all right all right tom so that's your your your fear though was it was so it's neither of those are themes you care about no but i mean you do buy most sterns regardless of theme right i mean it's just no i i didn't buy monsters okay that's fair never mind um but i get i mean i was looking at ultraman i think others have looked at ultraman as well as you know okay i'm not going to do a horror themed game i don't you know i need a family family friendly theme but to be honest like ultraman i don't know anything about it but the art looked incredible like the art looked great so even if it was just this like unlicensed to me i don't know anything about the license so it would be the same as having a kind of you know spacey sci-fi unlicensed fun game you know and i think there's plenty of people that have no problem committing to that especially when you see all the toys and bells and whistles that they've thrown in the game yeah absolutely yeah okay so there's this thing with improv i don't i've never done improv i love there's this like I'm sorry. There's this thing in improv called yes. And where like somebody says something and then you, you agree with them and continue. I mean, Tom's got the agreeing thing down, but he's just, that's it. So maybe we do want Tom's wife on here so we can hear about how, you know, their first few days. I'm just trying to imagine going to Tom's office, explaining to him what's going on with me. And I'm like, my mouth is really hurting. My tooth is just aching. And then he just looks at me and goes, cool. All right, Tom. Well, okay. So here's the thing about this pin. All right. So I'm willing to accept that it's entirely possible that maybe they can show us something to where scoops returning back to the flippers via a subway or an elevator actually does equal flow. Maybe seeing it actually done, it'll look really good, which I'm very interested to see. Now, I will talk about some of the things I see positive in it. I really do like the three drop targets in front of a ramp. That's something that I always wish would be around pinball a little bit more. I like the idea of having to make progress towards opening up something else on the play field. I can appreciate that. I know it's a little bit worrisome to some people whenever they see the airball deflector up there. But, you know, that's just, I mean, that's pinball. That's just what's going to happen, unfortunately. But I'm curious to see how that does play out and how they have things coded around there. Although I will say it is a little weird seeing those three drop targets looking like a hat on top of the pumpkin. I don't know if you guys have noticed that. Yeah, I know. There is a lot of uncertainty here, for sure. And I know the little bit that we've heard about the code. um bug actually talked about there's because zach with the pinball show he had asked okay are you michael myers or are you i don't know the girl and and bug said well it depends on the mode and so i heard that i was like okay well if if ultraman is the same code does that mean some modes your ultraman and some modes your what creature i don't i don't know not ultraman yeah exactly i don't know there's a lot of uncertainty here with the code and and i think we have found that um you know there's a lot of important aspects to to a game obviously art whether or not it draws you in but a code usually the code is what keeps a game around and so that that's the biggest uncertainty right now what i will say is the art they destroyed i mean visually we can get into the sales i mean obviously they sold out in in hours And it's because they visually, the art is absurd. They threw a ton of mechs, a ton of toys. The topper's awesome. The back, I mean, everything. They just crushed it in that department. Yeah, you're definitely getting a lot of bang for your buck. That's for sure. I mean, you can definitely tell that they listened to what people have told them or asked about over the years. So at least the big positive that I see out of Spooky is there seems to be every single time that they release something, there's visible improvement over things that they're putting into the pin. Now, whether that equals fun playing, I don't know because, I mean, just like Gomez told you, Joel, in your podcast just a couple weeks ago, you know, just stuffing a pin full of everything might not necessarily equate to fun. It just depends how it all comes together. so i mean i i don't know i will say though that even the ultra man like like we just talked about i pretty much had no idea what it was but looking at it i'm more interested and it's hilarious how this works even though it's the same layout i'm more interested in playing ultra man than i am halloween i don't know how you guys feel about it i mean i'll tell you if i i i know i i could never own Halloween in my house but it's just it's it's too I mean they went all out like even with the clowns on the side and whatnot it's just like I can't it's all it looks great but I it's not family friendly but Ultraman like absolutely I mean that visually looks like I love the color I love the art I think they just crushed it so if we're gonna go based off the little that they've given us which is a little video and a little pictures not to mention the light show looks sick yeah i i'm with you i i lean more towards ultraman sweet so i think we pretty much just crushed it right there oh tom tom needs to talk again okay go ahead tom ultraman oh it's solid okay you like that pretty good can you name one of the villains in ultraman tom can you do it no what's so great is we have cameras on and he tricks us because it looks like he's genuinely thinking and uh and then it comes out as with a no then you realize that's it yeah it's all we're getting i've been muting my mic for the past five minutes laughing no need no need no need i mean and here's the thing too is you know it doesn't surprise me either that there's multiple people all on these pens in terms of design and everything else because one of the main things that i text at you guys like legit 15 minutes after is revealed i'm like this looks like it's a bunch of ideas just thrown together and that was my big concern that i'm like it seems like there's a lot of cooks in this kitchen you know just because it's not very traditional in terms of what we've seen before now but that could be a good thing though right exactly who knows until we see it flipped it's like it's the unknown right now it just has it has me curious has me worried i have a lot of feelings towards it probably how i would feel with tom being my dentist but i mean we'll see how it is it seems like that it is refreshing they're trying something different though right exactly it it absolutely has the potential i mean it could be incredible it could be we don't know and there's a lot of i think the only reason i haven't streamed it is they said there's just like, even from a licensing standpoint, they're limited on what they can show yet. So I don't know. I don't know if there's been a date set. I don't know, but I am very curious. Um, one, one thought I did have about theme was I was surprised when they announced there was going to be 250 Ultraman. I was like, okay, I think they'll sell out of Halloween, but I don't know about Ultraman until I saw the art. And the reality is if that art package would have been, you know, kind of Photoshoppy clips from the show, you know, if it wasn't modernized, if it wasn't cartooned, up you know by this artist i think i don't think they would have sold 250 ultraman but i i think truly i think the that artist did such a great job that there was enough people that looked at it and they're like that just looks like a cool sci-fi theme yeah let's go yeah who was it it was matt frank i think that did it i'm not even familiar with his artwork that's what i'm reading on this week in pinball i mean that to me i don think you ever let this artist go if you spooky like You keep him occupied keep him doing art I mean I think the package that he brought is pretty incredible Well I agree The challenge is I think that guy like that what he does He does like kaiju based art like that is his nook. And then obviously the Halloween guy like that is his nook. I mean, good for them for for finding a scene, a theme specific artist. And obviously Stern did that with Christopher Franchi with Batman. Like that was Chris's thing. Right. And then Chris has gone on to make amazing art. So I agree. I mean, I think these artists, once they realize like if as long as they enjoy it. Right. I mean, sure. They've they've got the talent for sure. Yeah. Now, can you guys imagine how much money is going to be on the line or the actual gameplay reveal? I mean, think about this. They're all sold. so now it becomes a matter of if the game flips well and if it's a home run all of a sudden you're going to see some of those people that are front in line you're going to see some of those pop up for sale and i think people would be willing to pay top dollar to jump the line i mean if they're way if they're 12 months from now i i could see it or even swap spots like swap spots for a certain amount of money because that would be an interesting thing where if you realize you have a good number and you look at the initial code and you're like, eh, you know, here, somebody can pay for my spot, but I'll go ahead and hold my spot in line just in case six months from now the code really becomes something special. It's going to be crucial. I mean, here's the thing with Spooky, they're all spoken for. So they've sold out the allotment. Either way, they're going to be good. But this is going to be really telling. I'm very curious to see how this will affect third-party market whenever they finally do the reveal because you're going to see people either fawn over it and people are going to be rushing out and trying to be first in line again or you might see a fire cell i mean it might happen if it doesn't shoot well and the code isn't there that's a possibility as well let me ask you so tom tom you had you bought amando ellie before you saw any anything right well no you saw pictures but you didn't see any gameplay of any kind right when you when you had purchased just just what they show on you know stern when they release a game yeah so what what is your view then when you're watching that initial stream like are you do you view it in a way of like it better meet x y and z or i'm posting on pin side tomorrow or no you're like i'm committed i'm gonna wait and see yeah i was pretty much committed to it i mean just on the theme alone and everything. I did have concerns when I did see the dead flip stream and the balls were coming up the head. When we talked about this, I think, on our first podcast, the balls were falling off the habit trails or the wire forms. Yeah. And that made me really nervous. The U-turn going every which direction too. Yeah. U-turn shot. Yeah. It ricocheted a good bit. But you've never, as an LE buyer, I mean, you're forced to kind of put your money down before you really can see anything. But I just didn't know how often you go into those reveal streams, you know, wishy-washy. Like, is this going to make or break what I'm spending? But you say you're... I did feel that way for a little bit. But, you know, once I got out and played the Pro, I thought, yeah, you know, I think the LOE will be fine. and I'm very happy with it. Now, I did back out of one LE specifically when I saw it revealed and I saw the gameplay on it and that was Stranger Things when it first came out. And so when I realized that the code wasn't quite there, now, obviously, you know, fast forward, it's 2021, nearly two years later or closing in a year and a half later, it's going for more value. But when I realized the code wasn't there and it didn't seem like anything was really going on with the Demogorgon, And I mean, that right there was enough to make me just say, OK, I'm going to hold up. I'm not going to spend nine grand or however much it was back then. I'm going to wait. And I mean, I did eventually end up with a pro on down the line about a year, year plus later once they did hash out the code. But I'll admit, too, I played it out in California early 2020 in January and turned out I was actually happy with my decision back out because things just weren't there yet. It just wasn't. That's fair. yeah and i well for for me personally i think theme is is huge you know uh but like travis you know i yeah as far as stranger things go the first time i played it i hated it and uh it just got way better as as time went on yeah there was a lot of us out there that just kind of looked at each other after we played it because they had it out there i think it was project pinball yeah two dollars a play for everybody to play it and honestly that was like the shortest line the whole weekend into anything like everybody they played it once or twice and everybody was done with it so that just shows you though how far along a game can come it really does because i know i mean i i'm a fan i'm a fan of stranger things now tom i know you enjoy it uh tim tim lee tim lee tutor on one of my streams mentioned i don't know how many he's got like 10 plus games or something in his basement and he and he had a bunch of family over for the weekend and he said there was one game that was played non-stop and like he has a guns and roses i think he has avengers deadpool he said the number one game in his collection that was played non-stop was stranger things and i don't know i just i think that's pretty cool to see how far a game can come but um yeah that that initial stream though is pretty it's important and uh you know no pressure on spooky but i think we all are eagerly awaiting to see what this game is going to be like is there any benefit to doing a gameplay gameplay stream at this point like for them is there any actual benefit before the game goes on sale no well i mean right now even after they've sold the game is there any benefit to them showing gameplay now because the only thing they're affecting is third-party market that's it yeah the only thing i can think of though is you don't want your first stream though to be like somebody doing it at an arcade because they can't do direct capture they can't do the audio you don't want your initial stream to be garbage right but why would that matter if they've already sold it all because this isn't like people get back out right it's non-refundable deposit deposit yeah i i was watching a dead flip and i know he stated he is going to be doing the reveal stream for uh for halloween so should he gonna be the one playing it like just him i doubt he's just gonna show just stand in front of the camera i have a feeling uh you know some of the spooky clan will be there i would assume if you guys are listening to this get a first class ticket for bowen fly him in and have him play it i'm telling you it will make a massive difference. It really will. Because here's the thing, like, and this is no dig on Jack, it'll be the first time he's probably playing the game. And realistically, it's hard to make a game look good if you have limited time on it. It's very difficult. It's very difficult. There's probably only, we could count on one hand, most likely, the players on this planet that can make a game, play like butter, no matter what it's, you know, no matter what the layout is. And I guarantee you, Bowen is one of those. Guarantee you. And they have him like he helps out with the rules so i i would include him yeah well i mean we do know tom can make any game look good but it's mostly because of his player cam right yeah so yeah it's because that modeling thing yeah yeah all right well spooky we'll we'll put a bow on that all all together i mean it's kind of a wait and see we're excited congrats on selling it out congrats on choosing some amazing artists um i don't know we got a lot of questions but we're all eager to see what happens and none of us all three of us neither we none of us have a stake in the game here we're just you know sitting back and and watching it unfold um i have no transition at all to this next point here uh other than it's kind of a bummer uh the museum of pinball museum of pinball one of you guys want to talk about that real quick hit it travis so there's this place called the museum of pinball tom why are you laughing right now that was a great That's a great segue. Sorry, I forgot. Yeah, Joel, ask me again. Ask me again, Joel. I'll do it like Tom does. I apologize. Travis, just repeat what I just said. So, hey, Travis, you want to talk about the Museum of Pinball? Yes. Oh, God. Tom and his soundboard. Holy crap. Sorry. All right. No, it's perfect. Okay. So, yeah, Museum of Pinball. So, it's this cool place that was out in Banning, California, to where there was a big tournament held there called Indisc, and it's usually held there in January. And I only got the opportunity to play out there once, but originally they were supposed to have another place out in, I can't think of the town. Tell me the town, Tom. Banning, California. No, the other town. That's the other one where they were moving to. Palm Springs. Yes, Palm Springs. So they were supposed to move there, and basically, long story short, it kind of fell through through unforeseen circumstances and now this museum of pinball has nowhere to go afterward you know because of that so you know now it just seems like stuff is kind of leaked out on pin side i'm sure you guys can go over there and check it out i really don't know too much information outside of what's being said publicly and so it appears that the museum of pinball isn't going to be anymore is what it appears but hopefully there's something that happens to help that out but as of right now all indications show that indisc is still going to go on in some form because you still got carl jim bilcito and bob matthews over there helping out with that and i don't see that going away i don't think this is going to be like a replay fx and pinberg situation to where everything just dissolves and that's that i don't see this i don't see that happening here and i don't think it can happen because i think this tournament is so damn important. And there's a lot of people that have traveled for it. They really hit their stride in early 2020. I mean, it was well-ran. It was fun. It was one of the most fun experiences I've had at a pinball competition before. And so I really do look forward to Indus happening again. And, you know, I got no doubt in my mind that they'll figure it out and that it'll live on. all right because what the worry here is it's you said it's one of the major tournaments so like we've already lost a few over the last year right so it's yeah and it's considered a major so we've already lost pinberg and then papa was coming back as well i believe in april and that was gone as well as soon as replay fx kind of i guess replay fx didn't dissolve completely but when they took away Pinburgh and all that and the actual convention. So. Yeah. Hoping, I don't know, hoping for good stuff there. We'll have to wait and see. But yeah, I mean, I know, I know this, this is definitely a concern for you too, as tournament players. But there is good news on the horizon, right? With tournament stuff. IPA, August 1st. Yes. Yeah. Return of the Whopper. Man, Tom, you are so fired up about this. If fired up, Tom has to get ready, though, because that means they're going to have, what is it, IFPA 17? They're supposed to have it in May. So you've got plenty of time to start getting trained up. Joel, do you know what IFPA 17 is? Do you know what we're talking about? Sure. No, I don't. IFPA 17. I know IFPA. Yep. World Championship. Gotcha. So it is, there was, one of them was just recently held overseas. Like, the last one was overseas, right? And now we're back in the U.S. Correct. Making this up. Yep. It was held recently, about two years ago now. Oh, yeah. The most recent. No, that's the one where there was a legendary matchup between Johannes and Daniele. There was the Bram Stoker's. It's not Stoker's. Stoker's. Bam Stoker's. Bram Stoker's Dracula. It's definitely Bram Stoker's. It's definitely Stoker's Dracula. That's the one like Zach lost his mind on because it, it, it like, that's where he started his crazy rant about having, I don't know, like unthemed versions of the games. And if, if a game has a known bug, why is it even being used in a tournament? I don't know if you guys remember that, but yeah, clearly the guy that should be talking about tournaments. I go to Zach many for all my competition info. I even said it on the discord. That's who I go to right there. True. Yeah. But no, if, if nobody knows what we're talking about, just look it up just look up like dracula if uh was it back then 16 i guess yeah it's a legendary game even if you're a casual pinball fan it will i watched it yeah it is incredible it really is but so you're saying whopper the whopper's coming back so for the tournament illiterate tom let's hear educate us why is why august why does august first matter because fox cities has been doing tournaments for months now so what's special about august 1st so basically player rankings are are coming back so the tournaments mean something to tournament players basically basically the points are coming back for us so um are you trying to say tournaments are sanctioned Yes. Yes. Okay, perfect. Go for it, Tom. You're doing great. Love you, buddy. Thanks. But I thought, like, just you said player rankings are coming back, but, like, Ray Day has been number one now for a while, but then there was a swap, right? Like, Eric Stone took it, and now Ray Day is now. But what changed? Meet your mic, man. I'm sorry. I'm good. All right. Which part changed? What changed with the rankings? Well, no, Tom just said player rankings are coming back, but I thought they had already started swapping around. So you're saying they were swapping, but you couldn't actually earn points to improve your status? I'm sorry. Okay. I'm good. I'm good, Joel. Sorry. I'm glad you're having a good time. I can't. It's Tom. It's Tom's face. He's doing it. So, okay. So for the listeners, we've been talking a few times about video because we feel like video is going to be the thing that takes us to the next level, really, because once again, Tom. And so maybe one day, maybe soon, sooner than later, we'll actually get this on YouTube. Okay, I'm good. Okay, I'm ready. So here's what was going. Tom, I cannot look at you right now. You're going to make me laugh. Okay, so here's what was happening. They were still doing rankings because there was still a decay. Tom, damn it. I swear to God, I'm going to fly to Wisconsin. Joel, can we take his video off? He is messing up my glue here. No, that's the only reason I'm still doing this podcast. You know that. So basically what happened is Raymond decayed because he couldn't get any sanctioned points. Eric Stone passed him up, became the new number one. And to me, it was kind of strange with the rankings bouncing back and forth, but we were all going through that. Tom, F you, by the way, since you're still doing that. Tom's higher, right? Higher than you now? Or he was always higher? He's always been higher than me, but Tom broke the top 50. By doing nothing, though, because you're saying decay. I didn't break the top 50. Did you not? Okay, you came close. I was 51st. Okay, well, you know. So points last three years, is that right? Yeah, there's a decay. I think it's 75, 50, 25. So each year, calendar year, whenever it comes up to when that was submitted, then that's when the points start decaying. And then once you get past three years, that's when it's completely off your profile. And the top 20 tournaments is what goes. Did they, did they pause that though? I thought, I thought they like paused that during COVID or they, they didn't, they just let points decay if they decayed or. Joel, I would like to say, I appreciate your professionalism that you're still trying to get us going forward. I fully appreciate it. You know, we... Joel, everybody. I'm genuinely curious, but I also... I think anybody listening to this knows there's very little professionalism here. So it's fair. It fits. So ask your question one more time. What I was saying, you're saying, DK, I thought... Right. I understand there was a pause on we're not going to have any tournaments for you to earn points. Did they also pause whether or not you're losing your points? Or no, people have been technically losing this over the last year plus. Right, right. plenty of all the all the decay just keeps going it doesn't right so the powers that be determined that they were not going to pause the points at all that you just could not earn extra points so there's there's people that are ranked in the top 100 now that even then they have low points like everybody had the decay happen so that's why you're going to have a mad dash this fall everybody trying to go for the whoppers and everything because you're saying overall the bar has been lowered because everybody's yeah yeah yeah that's yeah see we're wondering in a lot of places we're wondering how you know if tom's not drawn in if tom didn't draw on his wife through his his extensive conversation it's got to be the jokes she must just be laughing it's got to be the jokes it's got to be that jokes he draws them in with the jokes and the looks that's all he needs oh i apologize to listener i know it's just us having a giggle fit for the past 10 minutes a Giggle fit. Wow. It's all Tom's fault. Well. Turn the pinball. Woo. Yes. August 1st, everybody. It's coming back. The Whopper's back in. I will be shameless plug here having Josh Sharpe, who is the president of the IFPA on my personal podcast later this week. So Joel can't have all the fun having Gomez on. Yeah. Here's a wonderful transition. Thank you for the transition. There we go. One thing I did want to bring up. I, on my, so we recorded Triple Drain shortly after Triple Drain actually had an amazing opportunity to interview. Tanya Kleiss and George Gomez about Deadpool. So feel free, just another pinball. It was episode 30, I think. Feel free to listen to it. Awesome. But one of the key parts of that interview that towards the end, there was essentially what was said was Tanya is currently working on something that should end in September. And once he's done with what he's working towards in September, he has a chance to do a second game. The other thing that he said was basically don't sell your Deadpool until September because there's new stuff coming in September. But the way he phrased it isn't there's new stuff coming to Deadpool. He said there's new stuff coming to Deadpool among other games in September. So the question there, you know, like DJ Mixer has already been put out to a ton of games. So it's just there's there's it sounds like they're adding something new. And I don't thoughts. What are your thoughts on what that could be? Take it, Tom. you got this it's got to be some kind of downloadable content or uh internet connectivity maybe some music i don't know i you know it was concise but i agree with you i agree with you i think it's probably one or more of those things um travis tom actually just hit the nail on the head pretty much i mean yeah i think i think that can be about the only things that can be to apply to all the games across the board i don't see you know we've talked about online connectivity for a long time now i know that's been the thing that pinball is a little bit behind everybody else because obviously like i've been playing on a playstation online since the year 2000 2001 sometime right around there it's 2021 now so yeah it's just about that time to have something like that across the board i personally think that it would be awesome if stern pinball had it set up to where you could have some sort of profile that you would be able to take game to game and have achievements within a game because then it would give replayability a lot more on different games if you're trying to achieve different things on it so i'm kind of personally hoping that it would be something similar to that but i honestly i don't know what it is i know it's something big yeah it's coming i think it's going to change the way things are moving forward with pinball with stern at least and i you know it wouldn't surprise me if it's something that kind of becomes like the industry leader of that particular thing that has to do with pinball i could see something like that happening achievements could be really neat i agree with you i what prompted the question is i said something about a lot of these new games all have like um they have like a challenge mode something unique built-in half shell challenge or what escape nublar you can get right to that in jurassic park um you know there's plenty in the new stuff or what's uh avengers is uh battle royale is that right well they have trophies and well trophy multiple yeah it's another which i think is really good i think every game should have some sort of trophy system which would be like the achievements i like yeah i know i know Well, you've talked about that before, Travis, and that would just be an awesome idea. Yeah, that would make me want to play different games. Yeah. So I currently own a score bit. A score bit, I have one in TNA. And one of the main reasons I got it is some of the stuff it would enable me to do with streaming. But what has been really neat, like I've been surprised how much I enjoy the fact that some of my friends also have TNA and to be able to see their scores and challenge each other and share that, like just that alone has been really, really fun. And so if Stern can do that and more, I mean, I don't know. Whatever they add, it's probably going to cost money. I don't know if it's going to be a monthly thing, a yearly thing, or I don't know if there's going to be something physical that we're going to have to buy to put in our games. But I mean, this is to me, whatever it is, I'm in. And, you know, I hope it's not I hope it doesn't cost an arm and a leg. You know, I hope it's reasonable. But, you know, we have these amazing toys in our house. And if you're telling me I can pay for something that gives it a whole new way to play, like, sure. Why would you not? Yeah, I mean, it would be pretty big, too, if they enabled something to where your scores could be taken down. So that would make it a lot easier to manage during tournaments, during leagues. you could have groups of friends like the three of us could be able to say okay here's our score on mandalorian night it'd make it a lot easier doing something like that i think you could achieve a lot more community feel that way and i think stern could really build that out and that would make their launch parties you know that much better that would make different community opportunities nationwide a lot better so i mean it's i would be very surprised if they didn't do something similar to that in the future. It really would be. Sure. And we don't know. I mean, they've made it very clear. September. Something is happening in September. So, you know, kind of a sit and wait. But I was blown away that he said it, I mean, straight out of George Gomez mouth. The fact that he dropped, you know, that kind of news on my podcast. Couldn't believe it. So, yeah, I think I know I'm excited. Don't know what it is. But I feel like I have no interest in selling Deadpool, but I know for sure I definitely don't want to sell it until something comes out then. But it sounds like, I mean, Turtles, it sounds like it's going to be applied to a lot of games. So pretty excited. Transition. Speaking of excited, why not? This is new. This is a new thought. This is a new concept. This is something that popped into my head yesterday, and let's give it a shot. But this is going to be a new segment. And I have full intention of reaching out to now our good friend Jason Live, hopefully for another cool little jingle here. But we're going to call it Triple Combo. Triple Combo. And the point of this segment is I had somebody reach out to me, and he just said game code has gotten so complex now that so many people play it in so many different ways that there a good chance that there stuff in a game that we missing And so we thought why not break down a game in kind of three different views from three different views So the novice view or the how do you approach this game to see the cool stuff as quickly as possible How do you describe this game to somebody new? How do you describe this game to your friends and family? I'm the novice. I will take care of that. Then the second way to view a game is wizard mode. I want to know how do I get through this game. So let's break down that process. and then the last way to view a game is the tournament strat if you step up to this game what do you do you know this is the first time you stepped up to this game at a tournament what do you do and so tom and travis are probably going to fight over who's going to take tournament strat you know week week to week but for right now we're going to go ahead and do that we're going and where our view is triple combo so triple combo we're ordering up the triple combo here and today we're going to talk about mando so all three of us have actually had a mando in our possession or easy to play for, I don't know, well over a month now. And we're definitely going to go more into Mando after we get through this segment. But I would say, so if I take on the novice side, and feel free, if anybody has better terminology that we can use, email us at tripledrain.com, tripledrain at gmail.com. Boom. At any hour, Tom will answer you within 30 seconds, guaranteed. I wish you could, yes, Tom's face, once again, priceless. So the novice level, the novice, what is the easy, what's the, what do you do when you step up to Amanda for the first time? If you want to see something cool or you want to show your friends, check this game out. The novice things to do would be, it's easy to get into a multiball right up the middle. Just hit that shot enough. Boom. You're in a multiball. The multiball light shows are really cool. There's some really cool cut scenes in the multiball. you can show that off um otherwise the upper play field if you're on a premium or le people want to know how to get to it people want to experience that the upper play field even on a pro same thing it's one left shot so left ramp one time will light the encounter you hit the left ramp again that's what puts you up to the upper play field so if you're gonna get and this is smart in my opinion because for novice people for friends and family that aren't necessarily good at pinball what's the easiest thing to shoot it's a it's it's the middle shots so brian eddy has designed this where the middle shot is what gives you multiball and just one inch over the left is the shot that gets you up to the fun toy that's about it that's about all i can say from a bite-sized consumable novice level that would be the thing those would be the things that i'd be showing my friends and family if they first stepped up to the game um do you guys agree with that did i miss anything no that sounds pretty good i think um did you mention that you can hit it into the left scoop twice to spot your ramp shots i did not because that's the thing is why do they care why do they care about the ramp shot so maybe we should this a good transition to uh thomas who's going to take us to the to into this wizard mode type pursuit of the game because in my opinion i don't think my friends and family care about the missions. It's just they may not get there. They may not hit those shots. But you're right. I do like that Dwight has given you kind of some training wheels for the first two missions to get that scoop. But if you want to go deeper, Tom, take us deeper. Thank you, Joel. Oh, anytime. Everybody listening at home, driving in your car, grab a pen and a paper. Sorry. grab a pen and a paper pull over your car we're about to get into this so missions what you want to do is hit both of the ramps hit the scoop play out your missions and do it again that's what I'm waiting here for I think you're trying to say just do everything if you do everything you'll eventually get to the wizard mode maybe we should have given tom tournament or maybe we should have given tom novice i don't know but tom has been to the wizard mode yeah um has been to the wizard mode how did you do that with the glass on too well technically i i missed it by a couple of shots but um wait you haven't been to the wizard mode yet and you're telling us how to get to the he had it lit what he had it lit i had it lit yeah okay proceed we're doing good so far so missions so yeah play out play out all five missions and uh that'll that'll complete that that segment uh to get to the this is the way uh then you got to play all your your razor crest multi balls in the .97 code they made a change where now in between the multi balls there's a hurry up so you have to repeatedly hit the center ramp but playing all three of those Razor Crests will get you to that mini wizard mode you play that and then you got to play all your encounters chopping a lot of wood to get there and finally uh this is the way once you complete all three of those will be lit and you have to hit a certain number of lit shots to start the mode which uh is where i failed isn't it five shots i think total they're lit or is it all seven it might be all seven i can't remember so i would so if you are pursuing the wizard mode that's it i mean there are other things in the game there's ambush scope there's multipliers there's hunter none of those are needed at all to get to the wizard mode correct correct well there's a couple of things that can help you out along the way like you want to make sure you have 600 beskar because that'll get you another extra ball true so that'll help you out a little bit and then probably maybe what is it not light and encounter isn't it one for completing you can also get an extra ball i think it's two or three missions yeah when the child can also get you an extra ball but those aren't that's what the foundry is like a whole nother thing that i mean theoretically you could ignore it you could ignore you could ignore everything but those three things missions razor crest multiball encounters boom wizard mode yeah right but the rising phoenix is what it is so rising phoenix and the extra ball will help you on your pursuit to a wizard mode the rising phoenix i think is 175 best car as of right now on 0.97 code tom graff knows that because tom graff knows all but he doesn't need rising phoenix though because tom graff annihilates his well he doesn't call them upper playfields his mini play field what do you call it yeah isn't whatever it is rising is it the jet pack the jet pack is what will just oh well one of the jet the jet pack will help you get through an encounter the rising phoenix will relight the encounter right because it's at the end of the day what it is i don't know i'm going off what it says on tilt forms and not on my own notes i probably should have just followed my own notes i should have just took the tournament strategy but of those three so of the three segments though reality is multiball if if you can only hit one shot and that's the center shot you could theoretically get to the mini wizard mode of razor crest missions kind of happen as long as you keep the ball alive encounter is really where at least for me encounter is really that is the hold up that is the thing that you have to focus on to get through is that do you agree with that or no these encounters just magically work for you tom encounters yeah the upper play field it's like chap and wood yeah yeah it's terrible okay okay but there you go there's your there's your wizard mode pursuit right um now i will say the one the one little thing i don't not taking away from thomas segment i'm doing a revert back to mine the other cool little nifty thing that you could show i would assume at some point dwight will add some sort of challenge mode which you know holding the flippers navigate over to it and start it and have a good time but there is impossible mode impossible mode is kind of fun so if you have people that like pinball or want to be challenged go to go to impossible that's another fun easy quick thing you can show people so that's mine what does travis think of impossible mode i like it for the most part i think so we had a conversation about this last week that i'm still not fond of how gnr's mechanics goes with the flipper decay right i like the idea of where the impossible mode on Mandalorian goes. I don't think it's fully quite flesh job, but I love the idea of future competition codes on any of the pins have some type of shot clock on the flippers whenever you're in single ball play. Like I don't want it there in multiball play. Cause I think if you earn multiball, you deserve the right to trap up. But I love the idea that even if, if you make a huge move and that tilt Bob is moving around, that you can't just sit there and let it settle down because you earned that danger and you've earned putting yourself in danger. Now you got to force some play. So I like the idea of where that's going. And it's almost, if I had a choice, I would really like to see competition play move towards having some type of shot clock on flippers like that for modern pinball. Now I know a lot of purists are going to hate that. They are probably pulling their hair out right now. But I really do feel like, yeah, exactly, Tom. But it's really, it's made me enjoy Mandalorian a lot more. Like I prefer to play on impossible mode compared to just regular old competition. So just to clarify, so anybody, impossible mode, what it is, is you have, it's like a 10 second, basically each flipper has its own meter. It's not even 10 second. It's like less than three or two. Yeah. Yeah, you got, like, it's great for training because you can work on drop catching or live catching, and then you got to get rid of it. But there's no ball save, and you can only trap up for maybe a second and a half. Yeah, the key is the flipper. It is, there is a meter for each flipper, and if you are pushing or holding that button, that meter is going down and will warn you. And if you run out of that meter, the meter, the flipper goes dead. And what's hardest for me is it takes time to build back the meter. So it's not only can you not hold a flipper that long. Let's say you do cradle up trying to make a shot and you flip just last minute. Well, if you miss your shot, you may have run out of flipper and you can't flip it to gain control again. I think it'll be really interesting from a tournament strategy. It'll be really interesting if they ever do a tournament with that turned on because it very much changes how you play the game. Well, and not only that, there's no ball save. A lot of the modes are harder to start, especially the multi balls. yeah more shots to start it it's pretty interesting there's just there's a bigger sense of urgency and it feels like you're earning what you're doing and it feels like you have to be very precise with your flipper skills like you you cannot accidentally run into a score playing on impossible mode no you have to be skillful doing exactly yeah and when wouldn't you agree travis this is really a game you have to trap up and you know relax hit your shots i mean it's not it's not a on the fly kind of game no no it's one of those it's legitimately if you go on the right flipper you're the only time you're really ever playing on the fly is if you're doing a right ramp left ramp center ramp combo yeah that's about the only time other than that you're just pretty much if you go center ramp you're just catching on the left hand side if you're going encounter you're just catching on the right hand side and then you're getting that axe out and you're ready to chop some more wood that's really what it amounts to sure so well let's roll into the third wave then so travis take it away what if you had to today fox cities boom tournament tomorrow you know you're playing you know you're playing amando what's your strategy for uh blowing it up there travis nice am i on a pro or an le uh pick one i don't whatever You play pro more. Most likely we'll be on a pro. So this is assuming that outlanes are open, tilt is tight, competition mode. Do we say it's been Josh Sharped, Tom? Sure. It's hard. Because there is a very specific way to approach this if the multiballs don't have any ball save whatsoever. So I figured this out earlier. So we'll say, gosh. for these purposes and everybody doesn't have a Josh Sharpe doing their tournament directing at their tournament so we'll just act like that the ball saves are all still on and all that so we'll go with that so what i would do if it's on competition mode you're going to have your first mission lit your first multiball lit and your first encounter lit now what i prefer to do is i completely ignore encounters in competition mode it's going to be one of the last things that I do personally. And so my main thing with Mandalorian is it very much has the thing to do in this. And the thing to do in this is to make sure that you have multipliers running as often as possible. So if you hit the two targets on the right-hand side, the Boba Fett targets, that will light one of your 1X multipliers and that will last approximately a minute and 20 seconds, somewhere right around there. If you do your hunter targets, and see, look at Joel laughing. See, you got this down, Joel. You timed it. I want to know what's up. I want to know what's up. So it's right around a minute and 20 seconds. And this is on 0.97 code. So if you're on a previous code, I don't know if it changed or whatever. This is just as a 0.97 today. And then if you do Hunter, that will also add a 1x, and that's approximately also around a minute and 20 seconds. What's interesting about it, fellows, what is interesting about it, if you stack those both up, it did not last a minute and 20 seconds when I timed it. I checked it twice. It actually lasted right under a minute and 10 seconds. So that does play into it. I don't know why that is. Maybe my timing was just off. Who knows? Anyways, so I would highly advise to have those things in focus. In scope, I would have that in focus also. You can get that lit by doing the U-turn, one of the 2X shots, which is, I believe, I guess if you're looking at it, it'd be on the left-hand side between the U-turn and the right ramp, and then the right ramp itself. and that will light your left end lane for scope. So keep that in mind. These are all things that you can attempt to set up early on if you want to, if you want to rely on one bulb, or you could just rock and roll and just go straight into a mode and into a multi bulb. And so one of the first modes that you run into is find the asset. So what I like to do is I like to, I totally ignore the ramps. I just go into the scoop twice because it's an easy catch coming out or an easy just let it bounce over if you want to. Some of the pins might play different. But either way, I'm just getting into the scoop because it's an easy backhand shot. Just do that three times. They'll start the mode. That's even on tournament settings? Even on tournament settings. Okay. Yep. They very much have the training wheels on for you. They very much do. And this is even on impossible mode too. I found that out. And the other thing that you could do, you could juice up your multiball if you want to, that first one right up the middle with a couple of shots. I sometimes like doing that. If you feel like you can play under control, feel free to get it ready to where once you hit it one time, it's lit and it's going. So I like to wait until it's ready to go. Then I'll start my mode. Then my next thing is just catch on the left flipper. Then I'm going right up the middle. So now I've got a stack between find the asset and that first multiball. I can't remember what it is. I think it's Jetpack is the very first one. Is tournament. So it's interesting you're saying find the asset because you can change which mission you start based on hitting the two times target. Yep, you can. And you can change with multiple you play based on hitting a bullet fed target. You can. So you say, does it matter? Like, is there a purposely there is a specific mission you're trying to start or there is a specific multiball or no? For what I'm doing, I want it to be on that very first one. because, one, I don't want to put the ball out of control, and I want to put pressure on my opponents early on. I want to start piling up points early on. So you would go mission number one and Razor Crest number one. Yep. You're not going to take the low score strat? No. I'm going to throw the hammer down on ball one, Tom. Tom Graff, I don't mess around when it comes to competition play. Unless I lose, then, of course, I was messing around. That's the reason why I lose. Right. So, yeah. So you get that all lit and you get it all started, right? So here's why you do it, Joel. Here's why. I'm ready. Because you also have a flamethrower automatically, which lights every major shot for a one-time 2X shot. So guess what? Now that I get it back on my left flipper, my goal during the ball save isn't to hit any of the shots. It's to light Boba Fett. So now I got that 1X. after I do that. Now I'm kind of looking at those 2x targets on that right-hand side, right? So I'm going to get those lit. That's 4x right there. And it is multiplicative. So I can get that right ramp really juiced up at that point. And from there, I'm just hitting a bunch of shots. I'm having a grand old time, you know, playfields multiplied. And eventually you will finish, find the asset pretty quick. I think it's like left orbit, left ramp, right orbit is lit on the very first one. one of those shots will get you to the next span, which I believe is the right ramp. So one shot on the right ramp, and then all of a sudden you'll light, I think it's left orbit, left ramp, right orbit on your third. Yeah, on your third span. So is this making sense so far, Joel? But you've already done flamethrower? Like you did that right at the beginning. I will light flamethrower at the very beginning. Because the big reason why, because all of the missions on Mandalorian, it has a left scoop cash in, all of them. They all end at the left scoop. So I'm looking to end my mode on that left scoop with possibly either just my 2x flamethrower or the 1x added on, so that makes it 3x. But Boba Fett, if I've mixed in Hunter, if I really wanted to and I mixed it in at the very beginning, then I might even have a 4x on that shot. and so from there theoretically at that point i could start getting the uh super jackpot lit on that u-turn to where it could be worth 30 million sometimes 35 million somewhere right around there and it could be worth that pretty quick just from hitting your shots and just from getting your multipliers up and you can come out of this is all the goal for all of this is all of these points are coming from playing one mission and one multiball is that what i'm hearing wow And you could very easily get 250, 300 million, like very quickly. And the thing about Mandalorian, you can do the thing multiple times. You could do the same thing with any of the missions, any of the multi-balls, just add in the multiplier. Before you know it, you'll have 600, 800, or a billion points. So there's no build up. There's no like, okay, I'm going to take ball one to prep for ball two. You are basically saying, I'm going to try this, and if I flub it, it doesn't matter. Ball two, I'm going to try the exact same thing. And when I drain, ball three, I'm going to do the exact same thing. Is that what I'm hearing? Usually you do, but Dwight hands out multipliers like Oprah gives away cars. I mean, like you've got your action button has the flamethrower ready to go. So even after all this, guys, then you've been building up your best car this whole time. You haven't even entered the Foundry yet. So you know what you get to do right after you do all this? You get to go right back into the Foundry, and now you get to buy more flamethrower. So you get to repeat the process all over again. So I can, if somebody doesn't realize that you could just keep doing this, you could pretty much play anything with a 3 or 4X running and just annihilate. Then anything on that right ramp is going to be worth a lot. Then your super jackpots are going to be worth a lot for your multiballs because that super jackpot on some of them, it stays lit until, like, you could just keep hitting it, back hitting over and over again. I did that earlier today on location for over $125 million just doing that, just over and over and over again. And so the super jackpot is from the multiball. It's not from the mission. Right. Yeah, exactly. And so you could pretty much, you could pretty much just do that. I will. And then the other thing I would highly recommend to look into is the armor also, because that adds in, it's not very much. I think it's like 175 or 200 best card, but that adds 20 seconds, 20 seconds onto your ball safe. And I figured this out. So if your tournament director is a psychopath and they like to turn the ball save off during your multiball, guess what? happens when you purchase armor nice it's 20 second yep 20 seconds of ball save time wow that is massive deer that's only during the multiball that's not during like if they have ball save turned off at the plunge but during the multiball i timed it it's there and that is a huge deal when you can do something like that for that amount of best car i mean that's and you can buy it again right so that's a question if you once can you buy armor more than once or just one and done Like you can't get a second level of armor, right? It lasts for the entire game. So yeah, you can't buy it again. That's like, that's priority. If you have low ball save timers for multiball, because it's so easy to get multiball on Mandalorian, unless they have like a fat rubber on that left-hand side. Yeah. But it's like armor would be a priority because it gives you a ball save. So you do all that, you're pretty much all but guaranteed. As long as you have a pulse and you can handle your flippers, you will get over 500 million. like I promise you I haven't cracked 500 million after a month but I haven't tried this strategy I haven't tried this strategy you'll do it now I mean it's yeah that's fair this this is the way well hey well done well done so uh there you go triple combo that's uh that'll wrap that up but that's I don't know I hope that's enjoyable for the listeners anybody that has any ideas if if there's better terminology we should use but that's the thought I think if we do one game per episode and break this down hopefully that's that's useful if not if you thought it was a terrible segment let us know triple drain at gmail.com um but let's just roll into i mean true all three of us have had bando so we've had it we've or have access to it for a while now overall overall thoughts um let's start let's start with tom why not okay um that's so unusual for me uh no i i enjoy the game i i think it's um i think it's easy to understand um but it's a little bit of wood chopping okay yeah especially especially the encounters yeah the encounters for sure and um but you know other than that i think it's a great game okay uh travis so i keep going back and forth on this game uh first off i'm a huge star wars fan love the theme originally i had planned on holding off after i saw the gameplay reveal i was gonna hold off i wasn't gonna get it because i was worried about the u-turn shot i was kind of worried about the simplicity that this would just be a game people would blow through so i just i didn't know how long this would last for me uh i ended up getting it because my sons they really love mandalorian they want to play it joel you are intimidating me with what you're doing right now oh i i stood up everyone yeah he stood up and he's like he's looking at his game right now he's like standing up and he has this okay oh he's looking at his game okay you're intimidating me you're like a bouncer all of a sudden standing up with those arms crossing that beard and Hey nothing better for a podcast than visual description Let me tell you That true That true But I ended up getting the game because my sons wanted to get the game And so overall I think there some fun fun things to shoot I still have issues with the center ramp in terms of how it returns. It's just kind of clunky. It's super easy to hit. I'm not a fan of the U-turn shot on the pro at all, just because it's just, it goes everywhere. There's some, I've played three different versions of Mando pro so far. and a few times i've hit that u-turn shot clean and it comes off there and just goes to the left out lane and just drains that's like yeah that's very frustrating and then i had another one to where it just actually nearly fed the right end lane really because it hit it just dribbled down and just had a weird spin to it and then there's some of them where i hit the right orbit and somehow it actually ricochets off and goes reverse on the u-turn so there's some weird stuff going on there it's just it's a weird shot like i really don't know how else to describe it but you know in terms of just the accessibility to it yeah it's it's easy to start the modes it's easy to get to the multi balls you can pretty much if you if you're a slightly above average player you're going to get to wizard modes on a pretty consistent basis once you figure it out and joel i know you are going to do that as well because we were even talking about it one night where we were going over different things to do on it yeah and you could tell you start to figure it out and and you were putting it together, and you were getting deep into the game. And so I think for players that are new to pinball, I think it's a great game. It may not be the best shooter around, but it's things that kind of helps you along the way, gives you things to do that are close to the start button. And so that's important right there. In terms of the encounters, I actually do like the mini play field on the Pro. it's it is kind of wood choppy but honestly i still think it's it's easy to get through like i'll it's very rare that i don't complete the whole thing and i think it's because you have that big flipper up there and it's not moving around if you get the bounces down you can pretty much nudge your way into a trap and i just picture it like a clock so if i aim at like 10 o'clock right it's going to pretty much bounce back at the right angle to my flipper to where it's not going to drain out and you could pretty much just bat it around right there that's exactly what i do and more than more times than not i'm completing my whole span right there and then it's just rinse and repeat over and over again catch on the right go to the left yeah but yes it's very it's very wood choppy and that's the only thing that i'm kind of worried about with 0.97 they add it in that hurry up in between the multi balls and i was even telling you guys this earlier like it's driving me crazy that now all of a sudden i have to spam the center ramp even more to get to the point to where i have to spam it even more so there's a there's something you can buy in the foundry that will start razor crest multi or light razor crest multi multiball does that sir pat does it if you if you have if you're working on the hurry up you've done your multiball now hurry ups you're now working towards hurry up if you just buy razor crest multi balls lit does it skip the hurry up and get you towards the multiball or no it lights the hurry up right and so that's what i was hoping would happen i was hoping it would skip the hurry up instead i think it just lights the hurry up okay just straight up and then so you're basically not buying your razor crest anymore so whatever they have on there that's not what's happening and i got a feeling that that might be fixed just because it kind of i don't know it defeats the purpose of what you're buying in the foundry because now all of a sudden it's like somebody that's not really paying attention to code might pick to buy that and then all of a sudden they have to play that hurry up and then they get out of it and now their razor crest isn't lit and they're out 300 best car and they're wondering what has happened and for me i would rather just play multiball because the multiball is worth a lot more than the hurry up from what i've seen so far so i'm sure there might be some score balancing that will have to happen or maybe some adjustments on there but it's just i don't know with that hurry up it's turned the whole game very much into just a spam the center ramp until you get a multiball or hurry up or you just get tired that's fair you know but overall overall i mean everything else though i mean it's still fun to play i just i don't know how long it's going to last in my collection that's the thing i just don't know you have gotten to the wizard mode a lot so uh yeah 12 times so far yeah this is the way 12 times which is but tom's only had his le for like three days so he'll he'll get there it's like once you dial in the shots and you're playing on your pen and you know where things are at you know you can typically get through your game pretty quick but this game it's just accessible i mean well and after a full player no go ahead no go ahead tom i was gonna say i'm sorry i was gonna say uh I kind of stopped playing it because of the bug in the encounters where I was kind of stuck in it. Yeah. There's a lot of bugs right now. So I'm just waiting for a new code update, and then I'll get back to it. Yeah, that's what's weird. Even this is the way it's still bugged out. I found the only way... It's weird. Sometimes I have to just flat out just drain out of a ball in order for this is the way to be lit. And there was one time today on location, I got all the way through, I think it's, I like these odds, which is the wizard mode for the missions, I believe. Yep. And I got to the very end of it, finished it. And then all of a sudden the game decides, this is still on 0.97, the game decides to spit out like four or five balls and nothing else is lit but the foundry. It's like no victory laps, no nothing. So the foundry's lit and I'm like, well, everything else is dark. I'll just hit the foundry. And I did. and then all of a sudden it puts me in the foundry but my flippers aren't going and it still has the ball save on so it's just like spitting out balls over and over again I'm just it's kind of crazy if it stays .97 I'm not so sure that it can be in a high level tournament right now because I think people are going to run into bugs a lot because I'm running into that with encounters if I play that I ran into that with scope today to where anytime I started scope, nothing was lit, but yeah, it was acting like scope was started. Like the end lane was going, it went through its whole thing, but there was no, nothing on the U-turn on the target or on the ramp. And even if I hit something, nothing would happen. It would just eventually timeout. So it's like I was stuck in that holding pattern. I don't, I have no clue how I did that, but yeah, there's a few bugs that got to be squashed. Well, I will tell you personally, I have not seen it. I mean, I've had a few bugs, but I haven't seen nearly the amount of bugs that you guys have, mostly because I just haven't gotten nearly as far as you guys have. But I don't know, my initial, my overall review is, and I just have more of a novice or like intermediate player mentality. Art is still awesome. The assets are really good. The film clips, the video clips are very good. The audio on this game is fantastic the audio i think is very very good very engaging what i will say is the friends and family that have played it there isn't anything there isn't anything that wowed them so there wasn't anything that pulled them in like a like to keep like they played one game and they're like cool there wasn't there just there wasn't any toy there wasn't anything like some of the other games i have that like oh that was neat i want to do that again um so it it wasn't the initial impression with, with novice, like friends and family, wasn't incredible, but for like my brother or brother-in-law, like people that want to know rules, once they realized, Oh, like once I described what you should hit, then they wanted to see more of the game. They wanted to see other missions. They wanted to see more multi balls. So there is a lot there, but it's, it's, it's, it's, it's there for people that want to try to unfold it and want to try to see the depth in the game and what i will say as you know as an intermediate player this is an approachable game and i do feel like there will be a point that i will see the end because i think it's it is accessible for my skill level like turtles i don't think i will ever see cowabunga there's so much that needs to fall into place to get to cowabunga it draws me in but it also seems almost unappro like unachievable this game i do think you can do that and so being that if you are an intermediate player this is a game that you might be able to beat and after you beat that I don't know if that'll draw you back in again you know Travis has beaten it 12 times it's like you know it's it's when you have a game like that that you can do and and that's what some people complain about like Deadpool Deadpool is a game that if you're a pretty good player you can beat that game and if you have a game that you can beat over and over again it just most of the time people don't don't care as much so it does I do like the way it shoots I do like that every time I play, I typically try to focus on something else. And the reality is most of the time when I focus, if I say, okay, I'm going to focus on getting through multi balls, I can get to the wizard mode of multi balls. If I focus on the wizard, like only missions, I can get to that. And so I realized like, I need to do a better job balancing if I truly want to get through everything. Because personally, I don't want to get through missions and Razorcrest and then just for the next 10, 15 minutes, just only do encounters. That sounds rough, but maybe that's the best way to do it. So, yeah. Well, one of the things too, Joel, and you, you briefly mentioned it maybe without realizing this, but with Ninja Turtles, you do have to do, and this is, it's coded by Dwight Sullivan also. So with Ninja Turtles, the big difference between that in terms of difficulty, just from a code standpoint is you do have to do a lot of things that fall into place, like very specific things like Mondo jackpots. yeah you got it you got to do a lot with mandalorian you can get through your missions and your multi balls without actually completing them that's the difference like it'll still count encounters is the only thing in the game to where you have to actually complete them to progress to the next thing so you could theoretically play all your modes and just keep spamming you know the center ramp and just play it safe the whole time and eventually time out without taking any dangerous shots and you'll get to that wizard mode you don't have to complete it you don't have to go through all the all the phases or whatnot and then hit the left scoop to cash out there's nothing in there that says complete this so in that case if you're on the fence or you're thinking about mandalorian or you got a chance to play on location i would still recommend play it and i would keep that in mind that you don't have to take crazy chances to go see a wizard mode you could play under control you could play patient and as long as you do those two things and you're just semi-consistent with what you're doing you will get to the end of that these the missions themselves it's not too many shots to even get through them either they're really not let me ask you this travis do you think that the mission should be completed and make the game a little harder that way. Or to get to the wizard mode? Yeah. Yeah, I would. I mean, personally. But I think that that was coded on purpose like that. I don't think it's an oversight or anything like that. I think that's very much Stern Pinball's way of trying to make this type of theme as accessible to the end user as possible. And so part of me thinks, and I'm going to kind of explore this since I got one at home, I'm going to set everything to difficult settings because I think the default's medium. So I'm going to set everything on hard and just kind of see how that is. Maybe that might even be a little bit more fun going that way. But I could see this in competition play, especially high level. I could see this having like lightning flippers. Of course, outlanes would be open. But I don't see how you put this in a competition without it being lightning flippers and without putting settings all on hard. you just put it in possible mode yeah you put if you do impossible mode with lightning flippers yeah it would be brutal i know it'd be very brutal so like turtles there have been times that and i do it every once in a while where i actually set it as a four-player co-op game which basically gives me 12 balls to see how far i can go and normally i can get to you know to the final battle which is the main episodes wizard mode but there's all those little things that i don't ever achieve in 12 balls. I may achieve one or two of them. This game, I've never done four. The most I've cheated is a two-player co-op game because just even having two players, which is six balls, you can almost just kind of fall through the game. It's just so easy. It's a lot easier to get through the game that way. So I don't know. A four-player co-op game, I think you could just if you actually played it with four other people you could probably get all the way through the game right if if your players are okay yeah you'll you'll get through it i got through it with my 10 year old son yeah on a on a co-op game you'll you'll get through it which makes sense but it just i mean good i think it's i like that it's accessible um i do like that that's my only issue with turtles as i think turtles is a hard game so like if that's your only game that game or you're new to pinball that is a hard game uh this game is definitely easier easier than that but um i am having a good time with it i am having a good time with it yeah and i i well i think the plus side to mandalorian also is the fact that if you if you are a casual player or an average player and you play this game enough i think it's a great pin to develop a skill set foundation to take to other pins sure and i think you'll learn a lot you'll learn how to live catch properly you'll learn backhanding you'll learn aiming i mean it's to me this is a pin that i would probably to again anybody on the fence that wants to either get into tournaments wants to get better at pinball or something like that i think that this pen more than any other pin that stern pinball or any other company has put out in recent memory would probably help you develop your skills at a pretty rapid pace because you feel good about getting getting places in the game the game does a great job at creating those moments. Dwight does an outstanding job at creating light show moments that make you feel like that you're getting places. Yeah, that's all. I mean, yeah, I think assets, lights, everything there. I mean, it's a fun visual. It is a fun experience. And I do like the way it shoots. It's just the code where it is right now. I do think it is. I do think it's much more approachable or it's directed for that. And I think we can all agree. I think this game is going to do very well in location because it is approachable. now there isn't anything, you know, like Baby Yoda would be awesome if he did move. Like it was a toy that then would draw people in like, oh, I want to see him do it again. But as long as people are willing to try to, you know, like, oh, I need to hit these two ramps to get to a mission, I think it could draw them back in. I assume it will do well on location. I mean, the two of you guys have played a ton on location, but you're kind of crazy that way. It's doing well down here, but, I mean, you kind of hit the nail on the head. I mean, with the Grogu not moving or anything like that, I know that was a big deal. I mean, yeah, I wish we would have seen it move. You know, obviously the only thing that's really interacting with the ball outside of the ramps and orbits and everything is that little dangly target off the Razor Crest in the middle. You know, and that you're going to see that get hit a lot because the majority of the game is right up the middle on a wide open ramp. So I do kind of wish one of the things that they would have done is maybe have the Razorcrest actually open up as the physical ball lock because you see it in the show to where they open up the backside of that and they walk out of it a lot. I think that that could have been an excellent opportunity to have some type of mech like that. But I don't know. Code wise, I think pretty much you're not going to see any type of revamp or anything like that. but I would like to see them do something with the child rollovers a little bit more. It just doesn't feel like there's too much going on there right now, at least from the pro. I don't know, maybe on the LE because the magnet is there, but the child does the force grab, Tom. Have you seen him do that at all on your pen? Is it impressive? It's pretty cool. Does it lick fillings of joy? Sure. Oh, shit. That means no. Calm down, Tom, okay? All right. Let's really reign this in. That's a good segue right there. I know. Here we go. So we've been going a little over an hour and a half. Hell yeah. We've kept the listeners on the edge of their seat this whole time. And we are getting to the segment that everybody tunes in for. Everybody's favorite segment. And I will tell you, the segment's only getting better. once again thanks to jason libel for this amazing jingle travis i know i'm pumped tom we all we know tom's pumped but we good we ready for this oh hell yeah i'm so freaking fired up right now all right here we go here we go that is just oh my goodness that keeps on giving right there i lost jason i lost it he sent that unprompted on everything and it's the last little bit where they quoted tom saying here we go we're going we're going again you ready it's so good it's so good so tom enlighten us charisma enlighten us tom so tom he's dying laughing right now by the way but tom you're what what Explain what happened when you played that for your wife. She thought it was good. But she didn't even know you did a podcast, right? So you're just like, hey, check this out. She's like, so you're just sitting in our basement just playing jingles? Unbelievable. So, okay. Once again, Jason Leibel, you're the man. But here we are. This is the moment we all work towards. It's time for Tom Talks, baby. Yeah, Travis, if anybody doesn't know, apparently we interrupt Tom too much. So I'm going to shut up. Travis is going to throw out a prompt. That's all you, Tom. Okay. All right, you ready, Tom? I'm ready. All right, so, Tom, I asked you this earlier about what you would like to talk about, and you told me that you just wanted me to surprise you. So surprise, Tom. There's no topic this week, but you have 30 seconds. The floor is completely yours. uh thank god i'm going to bed good night oh my goodness oh my goodness past my bedtime oh lord he still has 15 seconds i know anything tom just you got it play more pinball this is so great words to live by oh like i just don't know how you just weren't swimming in the women in college tom i just don't know it's i'm telling you it's his looks and his jokes we all know canny the looks the charisma he's got the whole package oh man well i feel like we should uh he's like he's a triple threat joel he's got the looks he's got the charisma he's got the money he's got the minivan and he's got an amazing podcast so uh we there's no better way to wrap it up than with uh here we go great job tom it's the best thank you it was fantastic thank you tom thank you for that segment well worth the wait i'm glad i i'm glad i could make everybody laugh Well, you're going to keep making everybody laugh because we have an incredible show coming up, guys. Our next one? Yeah. Special show. Oh, you're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we are – There we go. As you guys have probably heard, there are other podcasts that have hit big milestones. And typically on those podcasts, there are other pinball media, pinball fans that submit audio recordings or words of encouragement like, oh, thank you for all the content. And it's just it's a really good way to remember, you know, all the stuff that we've been through. And being that we have a big milestone coming up next week being episode five, we thought it would make sense to, you know, kind of look back on what's gotten us here. You know, we've had some amazing guests. We had Raymond and too many others to name. And we've had I mean, David Dennis is still not here. Thank goodness. We've had some laughs. We've had multiple memorable Tom Talk moments. So please feel free to submit any sort of, whether it's audio or just written view on, you know, kind of your favorite moments or memorable things that have, you know, gotten us this far. We would love that. We would love to go over that, you know, because milestone, boom, we got it. We need to celebrate. We'll read it on air. We'll play it. Yeah, we'll do whatever. I mean, it's it's episode five. This is like this is huge. The Mecca. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we've put eight hours into this. Yeah. Eight hours. Yeah. That's amazing. That's a work day. I put 10. Oh, yeah. Okay. Oh, that's true. You're a social media. Oh, my gosh. Oh, yeah. Guys, guys, we cannot tell you. We could not do this without all of our fans out there. Well, now I feel like I'm already getting the victory speech after episode four. Yeah, we need to save it. Let's wait for all of that to flood in, and then we can really. But I will say, so by all means, please, we would love any sort of feedback. If you guys have any Tom Talks prompts, feel free to throw those out there. We'd love to dive deeper into Tom's psyche so he can talk about pinball. But another great way that you could support us, even though people already are, which is incredible, is merch. We actually have Triple Drain merch on Silver Ball Swag. And we've sold some already, which is so great. So feel free to check it out. And I modeled it if you want to check it out on Instagram or Facebook. He did. And by saying we sold some, it's not just the one that Tom bought. So there's, you know, other people bought it. Okay. So, yeah, feel free to check that out on Super Bowl Swag. But, guys, that's it. I think it's a good way to wrap it up. Let's hit some plugs. Travis, plug away, man. You guys can find me over at YouTube at Marv Loco. I run a little podcast over there called A and Ball Podcasts, and I occasionally do a YouTube video. And you guys can find me on Twitch under Marv, in which I do not stream Harley at all, but I'm in people's chats and sometimes making fun of them, like Joel, sometimes Tom. So, yeah. I look forward to episode five. Just huge, huge milestone. So, please, guys. I can't believe we made it. I know. Everybody just send in your mails, send in your voice messages, and, yeah, I look forward to hearing them. Tom, go for it, man. I stream pinball on Twitch. I occasionally talk there as well. So you can find me there on Twitch on Fox Cities Pinball. Also on Instagram and Facebook at Fox Cities Pinball. And YouTube sometimes. There you go. And I'm Joel. I do Just Another Pinball podcast and Just Another Pinball stream. I also stream for Flip N Out Pinball every other Thursday. Oh, Flip N Out Pinball, bye, bye, bye. yep shill shill shill zach and nicole awesome we forgot that guys yeah yeah anyways um yeah if there's anything i can do for you you can email me at just another pinball at gmail.com otherwise any feedback at all anything that we can do for you the three of us feel free to email triple drain at gmail.com and we will happily read those emails except for hate mill because our egos cannot take it oh no we'll read that too we'll read it on air but yeah hey well guys i appreciate you both appreciate the conversation appreciate the content you both are creating and uh yeah once again great time great time triple drain ladies and gentlemen great job everybody great job this is excellent can we hit the button yet we didn't know i'm gonna i'm gonna let tom close this out you got okay go ahead tom see you everybody perfect _(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_ --- *Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 55cfcc9d-3d9b-4fda-b9eb-11df6d7b7880*