# Triple Drain Pinball Podcast Ep 31 - Only Pinball Talk And Lots Of It!

**Source:** The Pinball Network  
**Type:** video  
**Published:** 2023-02-12  
**Duration:** 97m 24s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLco91Jl2EU

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## Analysis

Triple Drain Podcast Episode 31 is a wide-ranging discussion covering the recent Pinball Awards ceremony, where the hosts discuss their third-place finish in the podcast category, the Innovation award debate, merchandise and Patreon updates, and an upcoming PIN Clash tournament on Godzilla with qualifying starting February 17th. The episode touches on streaming categories, pinball magazine quality, and broader questions about what constitutes true innovation in modern pinball design.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Triple Drain finished in third place in the podcast category at the Pinball Awards, beaten by Silverball Chronicles by one vote — _Joel speaking directly about voting results and margins_
- [HIGH] Weird Al won the Most Innovative Pinball Machine award, largely due to being a P3 platform game with a hamster wheel — _Joel discussing the pinball Awards results and community reaction_
- [HIGH] PIN Clash Godzilla qualifying runs from February 17th through April 2nd on Twitch — _Joel and Travis discussing PIN Clash registration details_
- [HIGH] The Pinball Awards had approximately 55 official judges and 150+ public voters — _Joel recapping the awards event structure_
- [MEDIUM] Godzilla's Magna-grab magnet toy is a unique innovation not previously seen in pinball — _Joel discussing design innovation and comparing it to Weird Al's hamster wheel_
- [HIGH] Flipping Out stream finished second in the streaming category at the Pinball Awards — _Joel thanking voters for the stream's performance_
- [MEDIUM] Nudge Magazine's second edition has exceptional photography and writing quality — _Joel reviewing the magazine received at the Pinball Awards_
- [HIGH] Triple Drain is sponsoring PIN Clash with $100 and offering a unique prize for the median score — _Joel explaining their sponsorship contributions and prize structure_

### Notable Quotes

> "I actually have not listened to a TPS show in about five months... been a little while but I need to listen though"
> — **Joel**, N/A
> _Shows tension between Triple Drain and The Pinball Show; Joel acknowledging The Pinball Show's quality despite not keeping up_

> "can we still be Innovative in pinball... the P3 platform is innovative which I agree I 100 agree but that platform shouldn't win every year because it's the same"
> — **Joel**, N/A
> _Core criticism of the innovation award category methodology and P3 dominance_

> "I challenged myself on well what what was the last thing that I thought was truly Innovative in pinball and the thing that I thought of was the the Magna grab on on Godzilla"
> — **Joel**, N/A
> _Direct comparison of innovation examples between current releases_

> "if instead of the voting being like which game's most Innovative Rush versus this versus this if it would have been like Rush light up ramp compared to alien you know grabbing the ball with the mouth"
> — **Tom**, N/A
> _Proposes restructuring innovation award voting to focus on specific mechanics rather than whole games_

> "I don't know like just pumping my arms so it ended up creating a question I don't know I don't I don't know"
> — **Joel**, N/A
> _Humorous anecdote about technical mishap at Pinball Awards live stream_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Triple Drain Pinball Podcast | organization | The hosts' podcast show; finished third in podcast category at Pinball Awards |
| Joel | person | Co-host of Triple Drain; helped organize Pinball Awards; producer/content creator |
| Travis | person | Co-host of Triple Drain; competitive player; distributor involved in Godzilla tournament |
| Tom | person | Co-host of Triple Drain; produces Flipping Out stream; voted for The Pinball Show |
| Silverball Chronicles | organization | Podcast/show that beat Triple Drain by one vote in Pinball Awards podcast category |
| The Pinball Show | organization | Pinball podcast/media show; won podcast category at Pinball Awards; hosted by Zach and Dennis |
| Flipping Out | organization | Tom's streaming show; finished second in streaming category at Pinball Awards |
| Carl D'Angelo | person | Organizer of PIN Clash tournament; competitive streamer |
| Weird Al | game | Jersey Jack Pinball game; won Most Innovative Pinball Machine at Pinball Awards |
| Godzilla | game | Pinball machine that won innovation the prior year; subject of PIN Clash tournament |
| P3 | product | Multimorphic pinball platform; Weird Al is a P3 game; discussed as repeatedly winning innovation awards |
| Nudge Magazine | organization | Pinball magazine with exceptional photography and writing; Jason from Pinball Party provided copy |
| Jason | person | Creator of Pinball Party content; artist/musician; friend of Nudge Magazine |
| George Fisher | person | OBS technician/producer for Pinball Awards live stream |
| Zach | person | Co-host of The Pinball Show; judge/presenter at Pinball Awards |
| Dennis | person | Co-host of The Pinball Show |
| PIN Clash | event | Online tournament on Godzilla starting February 17th; qualifies through Twitch streaming |
| Dead Flip | organization | Streaming personality/content creator; won podcast/streaming awards at Twibbies |
| Jack Danger | person | Pinball streamer; previously streamed in 'Just Chatting' category on Twitch; recently returned to pinball category |
| Neil | person | European pinball scene expert; Bond fanatic; guest on previous Triple Drain episode |
| Bond 60th | game | James Bond pinball game with four optical spinners; innovation mentioned in discussion |
| Rush | game | Pinball game with innovative light-up ramp toy |
| Silverball Swag | organization | Merchandise retailer for Triple Drain podcast branded products |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Pinball Awards ceremony and results, Innovation in pinball design and award methodology, PIN Clash Godzilla tournament announcement, Pinball podcast ecosystem and competition
- **Secondary:** Streaming strategy (Twitch categories and reach), Pinball media quality (magazines, production), Triple Drain merchandise and Patreon support, P3 platform dominance in modern pinball

### Sentiment

**Positive** (0.78) — The hosts are celebratory about the Pinball Awards event and their own third-place finish, grateful for community support through merch and Patreon. However, there are underlying tensions about innovation award methodology and some competitive rivalry with other podcasts (particularly The Pinball Show). The tone is friendly but with moments of ribbing and insider politics.

### Signals

- **[event_signal]** Pinball Awards ceremony held with ~55 official judges, 150+ public voters, and approximately $10,000 in giveaways (confidence: high) — Joel recapping: 'we did like almost ten thousand dollars worth of giveaways' and detailing judge/public voter counts
- **[community_signal]** Increased competition and tension in pinball podcast space; voting margins tight (one vote between Triple Drain and Silverball Chronicles) (confidence: high) — Joel: 'they beat us by one vote', indicating narrow competitive field
- **[design_philosophy]** Community questioning how to define and measure innovation in pinball; concern that P3 platform and code updates are winning repeatedly rather than individual mechanical innovations (confidence: high) — Joel's extended discussion about what constitutes true innovation; 'that platform shouldn't win every year because it's the same'
- **[product_launch]** PIN Clash Godzilla tournament announced with qualifying Feb 17 - April 2 on Twitch; Triple Drain sponsoring with $100 and unique median-score prize (confidence: high) — Joel and Travis: 'qualifying on Godzilla starts...February 17th...goes Sunday through April 2nd on Twitch'
- **[content_signal]** Discussion of Twitch category choice (pinball vs. just chatting) as affecting discoverability; Jack Danger recently moved back to pinball category from just chatting (confidence: medium) — Joel discussing Carl and In Disk stream visibility, noting Jack Danger's return to pinball category after streaming in just chatting
- **[business_signal]** Triple Drain generating merchandise revenue through Silverball Swag; paid off merch bill, now accumulating funds for future investment (confidence: medium) — Travis: 'we actually just paid off our our merch Bill and so we're letting that build back up and we're gonna see what we're gonna do after that'
- **[content_signal]** Nudge Magazine receiving strong praise for photography and writing quality; second edition; first edition sold out (confidence: medium) — Joel reviewing the magazine: 'photography is exceptional and the articles are actually incredibly well written and quite funny'
- **[competitive_signal]** PIN Clash Godzilla tournament expected to develop strategic meta around Tokyo Carnage bonus mechanics; unclear rules may be intentional (confidence: medium) — Travis: 'there's going to be a meta there will be a strategy that people are going to hone in on and we can probably explain that strategy'
- **[industry_signal]** Tension between Triple Drain and The Pinball Show; Joel hasn't listened to TPS in 5 months despite their podcast category win (confidence: medium) — Joel: 'I actually have not listened to a TPS show in about five months... been a little while' despite voting for them as judges
- **[design_innovation]** Godzilla's Magna-grab magnet toy and Bond 60th's four optical spinners highlighted as true mechanical innovations; debate over whether individual mechanics vs. whole games should be innovation award focus (confidence: high) — Joel: 'the Magna grab on on Godzilla I thought that was a truly Innovative toy it was a unique toy'; Tom proposing mechanic-level voting

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## Transcript

network is online launching triple drain pinball podcast all right Tom are you ready I think so Travis I anybody watching video knows but Travis are you are you ready let's just get on with it all right here we go we we Triple J all right uh first off we actually had a listener reach out and um they're gonna make us a video they're gonna make us a video for that so it hasn't happened yet but um maybe anybody that's watching the video now after the fact thank you if you're watching this on YouTube you know leave a comment all that stuff um is this shy Travis right now or well there's the deal so we um so yes videos coming for the intro but Travis right now for anybody that's listening to the audio podcast currently is turned backwards we're looking at the back of his chair so Travis feel free to do your dramatic reveal this is your moment you go for it no I'm good I'll just I'll just I can do it like this so okay yes well you sound great so all the audience yeah are probably loving it I mean we need I at least I don't know if if people start subscribing maybe I'll turn around so oh yeah 29.99 a month yeah yes uh patreon we actually got another patreon remember recently I really appreciate that thank you for all the patreon supporters um we actually just paid off our our uh merch Bill and so we're letting that build back up and we're gonna see what we're gonna do after that but thank you for that and we have people buying merch it's awesome getting um notifications from silverball swag you know so we're selling merch which is great it's it's really cool to see it in public Tom's been sending me pictures and whatnot so I think it's become a popular uh thing to wear at District 82 but you look ridiculous okay give me some dramatic music or something no Tom give me a beat uh hold on I wasn't ready for that who listens to this show who spends their time well the answer is nobody what was that oh did you just unzip something what that was a record scrap this isn't a strip okay ready Travis yeah I'm ready wow oh what a terrible setup that was show it off Travis what do you got on yep move the mic a little bit there it is that is a Bad Girl's t-shirt a Bad Girl's t-shirt look at that oh there's oh we had a listener I don't know if you wanted to be shared or not but we had a listener that that reached out to me and he said their local League he printed a bunch of these bad girls shirts and just thought that Travis deserved one so for the audio listeners it's pink it's a pink shirt it says bad girls on the front with some bad girls graphics on the back he actually sent me oh Tom's word is triple drain merch look at that I'm wearing Orlando Calrissian shirt how's that how sad for yeah for supporting this podcast but anyways the he reached out to me thank you so much he actually sent me a shirt as well um he had some odd sizes so none of the sizes fit Tom um but yeah thank you so much for the support hopefully Travis that's because it's the opposite there are two XL the shirt is pretty dope I gotta admit yeah what else is cool like in the background I'm gonna take I want to take the spotlight off me I want to put on Joel because Joel doesn't get enough obviously Joel if you could spin slightly Tom look at that Stern Insider connected working right there right behind him yep fired my games up right before we started yeah looking in the background companies there's there's like a Wi-Fi update going on over your left shoulder and over your right shoulder is like the new hotness for Toppers yeah yeah so we're going to talk more about that but I don't know can you hear my Led Zeppelin topper in the background okay we can't even see it but you know what it looks pretty sweet in the background yeah his lights are on for turning it on yeah yeah I got yelled at by Joel last episode so it is pretty tyrannical as a producer look at Travis's I mean his it's it's cool it's like seeing a uh something grow before our eyes you know your background is is slowly emerging you have a few more items you have books that I didn't know you knew how to read I do have something right here what else do we go those are picture books Joel I can tell yeah cover up my address here but look what were you shipped what it's a box it's a cardboard it's a box it's a box but it's the uh translate yeah it's the theater of magic L.A translate that's been signed by Brian Allen nice I do not have a theater of magic I have a sickness Joel oh it's called buying a translate it's a game I don't have but it's art I'm gonna put it on the wall like perfumer you know so believe it or not yesterday I gotta translate in my in my uh in the mail uh what I actually did was um what I saw on the TNA 2.0 or the TNA forum is that the new TNA 2.0 the back glass which is printed actually on glass is much more saturated it's a it's a much brighter though the colors are much more Vivid somebody had a side-by-side picture of it and um so sure enough I reached out to Spooky to see if I could just buy one and they sold me one so I bought a new one so now I have uh I will be putting that one in my TNA and then I'll have my other TNA that I can hang on the wall so yeah very cool Tom did you get a did you buy it by translate no everybody loves Jewel and Travis I don't get [ __ ] we've paid for it we used our money and bought it that's how that works yes I mean I use my wife's money but yeah whatever Joel said yeah well um yeah we actually have a bunch of stuff to talk about and we'll just start at the top of the list so we're going to start with the pinball Awards last um last time we record was actually on a Friday it was right before I left for the pinball Awards uh we had a fantastic episode with Neil by the way got a lot of positive feedback from Neil um it was really cool a lot of people enjoyed hearing about just the European pinball scene and how different that is and then also I got a lot of feedback of like it's really cool to hear from a uh from a bond fanatic you know who's looking at Bond not just like every other pinball buyer like this is a dream team what does that mean for him the Bon 60th obviously he's getting both he's getting a topper for both and just kind of hearing all that so new was fantastic it was awesome having him on but we did record directly before like 24 hours before the pinball Awards um so just a brief recap of the pinball Awards um first off it was awesome I was a part of those um not only part of the committee that that dealt with you know planning and judging and um Counting votes and all that stuff but we ended up having like 55 actual judges that that filled everything out and then we had like 150 something public that voted as well and it was really cool there were multiple categories where the public vote actually decided either second or third place so I know um one of them it was I think photography I know it was photography nudge magazine did win it was writing um I think the public vote was actually this the deciding factor between nudge getting it or nap arcade and then from a streaming standpoint thank you very much for the people that voted for the pinball um the flipping out stream uh we got second but third place was actually a three-way tie with the judges and it was a three-way tie between dead flip Don't Panic flip and Fox Cities pinball so Tom Graf actually Fox Cities pinball was by the judges was a three-way tie and then the public vote ended up being the deciding factor that pushed deadflip into the third place so always a popularity contest yeah well that's what you get never win that yeah but judges wise I mean Tom what you do is fantastic and thank you for everybody that voted for uh the flipping out stream which has been awesome um other things podcast guys the three of us this was another thing we actually got third it's fitting it's fitting triple Dragon no taking third could we lose two uh okay so we lost to the pinball show which I agree I think the pinball show I I love them what do you mean you agree I voted for the pinball show I look at the pinball show it's consistent it's entertaining Travis you have to admit as a distributor it's kind of insane but like the pinball show has almost been like a news source for you you're getting information Travis is being dramatic I just looked my code's updating for Mandalorian look at inside like and you hate Insider connect yeah it's actually now what what are you saying now I go where I'm for my information as a distributor there are times where you're getting information like Zach Zach shares information about like what's on the line or what's this or stuff that he's heard like you know some of this is not direct communication that you're I see the same emails all right well I'll be on I'll be honest Dennis Dennis may not like this I actually have not listened to a TPS show in about five months yeah since you started working in Pittsburgh yeah been a little while it's been a hot minute but I I need to listen though I listened to EGP last week that's great show and I listened to uh loser kid the other day I listened to Poor Man's the other day and I I did watch your thing though the uh the Jolin friends Tom's leaving us for yeah so Tom's not leaving you I'm not yeah you guys so I don't even get invited to that chilling if Tom if you want to stay awake you are happy to be on that show I would love for you to be on that show Travis unfortunately can't be on that show anymore because it is flipping out with friends and the pinball company you know Joel and friends the big war but so but basically what's going on it's like I've heard Zach on other stuff I've heard Dennis some other stuff I just haven't heard them both combined and that's fine but I need to figure that out I think I mean the bottom line is Joel yes Joel voted for somebody else though Tom I sure hear that yeah as a judge who's your second who'd you vote for second if you only voted one yeah as a judge we were told to be um what's the word like uh um not objective or subject whatever it is you're supposed to be professional and like what what did you're voting for the pinball as a whole not me personally do you think so little of the show that you actually produce [Laughter] six minutes do I feel like the five plus minutes of content we've just provided the pinball Community is as valuable as the pinball show yes no yes yes I was like why do I even show up so yeah what I will say is we actually got so we actually tied with no no we didn't tie so silverball Chronicles David Dennis but um they got second but the way it worked which this is what was funny is they beat us by one vote it makes sense now Tom why Joel hates us so much because he lost David David yes yeah he comes out silverball Chronicles beat us by one vote so theoretically if I would have voted for us then we would have tied and then the public vote though we beat silver ball Chronicles by a large margin so we got second in the public vote so either way we're doing well is we're doing well I appreciate all the people that listen to us that happen to vote for us or think of us I'm I'm looking forward to the twippies to see where we line up there but it's just I'm glad we have people that are enjoying this show not only the podcast but also on video you know we see the views there so really thank you so much for the support patreon I know merch everything I very much look forward to the twippy votes and seeing what three podcasts you voted for yes we can very much look forward to that no no twippy's I can vote for me twippy's I can be what do I want I voted for us in the twippies don't worry did you has the voting already happened yes I really don't know it happened a long time ago but anyway and again I'd like to congratulate dead flip and Canada's pinball podcast for winning for winning twippies hey hey dead flip came back to the pinball yeah he came back to the twitch pinball he saw indisk was just going off and he's like oh yep like here here's pinball I rediscovered it so good for him I think Jack danger realized like uh oh Carl's Carl's Making Waves on Twitch in pinball I think it's great I really wish everybody would stream in pinball though you know what I mean just because it I think it just adds more to it it gives more visibility for everybody yeah yeah so it gets big what we're talking about is so Jack danger and there are others but sometimes they stream in the just chatting category in the chess chatting category of twitch is an incredibly popular category where you can guess I mean there's over saturated there's so much lyric so the thought is if you have somebody like Jack danger streaming and just chatting and some Joe schmoe opens up twitch and clicks on the just chatting category that they may randomly see oh what's this this is like they may stumble upon it while obviously when you stream within your own category nobody's gonna stumble upon on that unless they happen to think oh pinball and then they search for pinball so I get it from an Outreach standpoint I could see that but at the same time like this is the community we are trying to build so it is surprising that Carl Carl was streaming in pinball that's where he's been and then with the um in disk stream getting top the top page like it blew up and so what was kind of surprising was to see Jack danger who's been streaming under the just chatting category for a long time now he's back he's back in the pinball category and I I don't know I wonder if twitch like was like Hey Europe you're a you're a twitch Ambassador for the pinball category maybe you should stay independent I don't know I don't know if it's a twitch thing or if it's just a personal decision but either way either way it's a good thing yeah yeah I think it's a great thing to stream in there and you know I we had to stop Tom from streaming in the hot tubes he debated with us he's like guys thinking about retiring from pinball yeah gonna blow up a hot tub and fill it with Mountain Dew and sit in front of these machines that'd be good that's when he'd leave us that's when he'd leave he probably would blow up doing that yeah oh we know um other parts for the pinball Awards it was cool seeing some people in person um I actually met Jason from the pinball party yay I he was adds that it was great meeting him super nice guy obviously George Don't Panic flip I know him he was there Amanda Hamilton was there um I mean it was great it was just a great time check out some of Jason songs too like uh his neon Dale stuff neon Dale yeah he's really good album's fantastic I would just say looking ahead next year mark it on your calendar we we did like almost ten thousand dollars worth of giveaways which was incredible people were winning stuff so just next year when the pinball awards are announced that date mark it on your calendar be there for the live experience it was awesome just being there in chat going nuts uh have a chance to win some stuff and if you have a chance to come in person it was it was so much fun it was absolutely a blast to do um side note I do have have to mention this because I'm truly impressed Jason is is good friends with the people at nudge nudge magazine and so Jason actually brought me one and it is this is actually fantastic this is actually fantastic it's soft touch not only does it feel good feel good but like the photography in here is incredible well is that a centerfold layout uh no there's no centerfold but there's good I mean there there's a dark pinball ASMR right now rub it some more Joel rub it some more now not seriously the photography is exceptional and the articles are actually incredibly well written and quite funny um I would just say if anybody's on Ed or like thinking about whether or not they should buy this magazine you should you should buy it I am incredibly impressed this is the second edition the first one's already sold out but I do I need to hop on there and become a subscriber and just get everyone from here on out because I I really am impressed by this so thank you thank you for this um and I'm looking forward to reading many many more so I will bring you know next time I should bring these with me so uh I can't get over you chilling and rubbing the product it feels good it has soft touch I'm just waiting for him to reach both hands out of the camera if you just pull back in Precision flippers and just starts those don't feel good those don't feel good you don't it's just shiny the middle of metal yeah um and now I'm I know I'm conflicted because um pin Clash I pin clashes on Godzilla and I haven't put Precision flippers on Godzilla but I'm pretty confident it wouldn't be I I'm assuming that could that be banned I was about to say I think you should ban Precision flippers Joel's gonna enter PIN Clash I think everybody should put lightning flippers on their game I guess before before we go further we probably should actually say hey there's a new PIN Clash coming out from Carl D'Angelo I think that the qualifying on Godzilla starts what February 17th it's not yet I think it's a week away yeah so it's like open qualifying we'll get into that more later but if you have a Godzilla you have a streaming rig and a stream that's on Twitch you can enter it just like Joel apparently is going to out of the three of us and I guess now you're going to use basically like steroids I'm not gonna put Precision flippers on them but it would be interesting it would be interesting to hear I've already been reading the Discord and people are like well where do the outlines need to be and Carl's like I don't care you can kill them all the way up like he doesn't it's like oh okay so I've never banned that [ __ ] yeah as well curious to see what he thinks but definitely look into pin Clash uh triple drain we are actually sponsoring pin Clash we we threw a hundred dollars into the pot as well as a comfy from Travis is going to send a comfy and we gave a very unique um goal which our goal is of all submitted times of all the submitted times that end up being submitted whoever gets the dead center one the middle of the pack technically you are average you're not above average you're not below average you are average whoever gets that score is winning a hundred dollars and a comfy from Travis Travis is holding his hand up how what what time are you going to get on this challenge Joel I will be below average I will be below the time average I will absolutely be below average no no no we can we can lean into this what's a good time I have no idea it's not time Total Carnage bonus I know no Joel is going for time I'm just curious it's just how Travis finds a weakness and then he he has to dive on in my game just updated everybody yeah mine's still doing it but still Godzilla has yet to uh even update uh well it'll get there okay so basically what's happening is you can find the information at Pin Clash tourney.com it starts starts February 7th that was not me it goes Sunday through April 2nd on Twitch it wasn't me so that was your game rebooting wasn't it it was it's a duck that like it's a weird sounds from the pinball machine yeah yeah I bet mine will do it when it restarts it makes this very weird sound it's very strange well his sounds like it's actually like doing an unzipper like a zipper sound okay anyways so it's just what's on your mind just rubbing that nudge machine so anyways it's a Carnage bonus you got to play the best one ball Tokyo Carnage and we're not going to explain what car Carnage bonus is because we've done it in a previous podcast we've already done it obviously you just try to collect this within like 10 seconds so you can qualify like Joel does I say we go more into detail next podcast about it because there's going to be a meta there will be a strategy that people are going to hone in on and we can probably explain that strategy I Know Travis is already he's already thinking he's like called the bridge we're gonna dive into it it should be really good it should be really good I mean Carl already streamed a um in a Tim an attempt how'd that go I don't well I don't think he drained the entire game well it's Carl I know it's like amazing like yeah we do that I don't know he's really good um last little note that I have on the pinball Awards is innovation and the reason I wanted to bring this up is because I thought it was really interesting hearing some other podcasters that didn't vote in that section so most Innovative pinball machine there was there were podcasters that didn't vote they felt like last year there was nothing innovative in pinball and we actually had a Facebook so for Tom had put on our Facebook post that we were going to record and there was somebody that actually mentioned that and they said do you think that like can we still be Innovative in pinball and so uh Weird Al Weird Al actually won that category and I think a lot of people lean into it being a P3 game and so sure if we look at Weird Al has a hamster wheel That's Unique I've never seen that before and then it had that magnet on the ramp to help pull it up but I think a lot of people lay into the fact that or lean into the fact that it's it's a P3 like the P3 platform is innovative which I agree I 100 agree but that platform shouldn't win every year because it's the same so it's looking ahead I I challenged myself on well what what was the last thing that I thought was truly Innovative in pinball and the thing that I thought of was the the Magna grab on on Godzilla I thought that post with a magnet I've never seen that before I've never seen that implemented that way before I thought that was a truly Innovative toy it was a unique toy um so I don't know it's it's the the conversation was is the only way to be Innovative these days to be code or you know even even Owen on the 60th like he made that design all out of the top of his head and then come to find out the figure eight is very similar to a figure eight that's in Diamond lady isn't that like it's another game he's like oh I did you know like are we at a point where there's so much pinball out like trying to be Innovative with the layout is even a challenge I don't know what are your thoughts on pinball Innovation or I mean Bond 60 has four Spinners on it like Optical Spinners I don't think that that's been done anything so there's Innovation right there I mean so what I don't know is who won for Innovation last year in the pinball Awards the year prior I assume it would be the man it was Godzilla I think Godzilla won everything so did they just they was there a reward for exactly what the Innovation is or was it just saying like this game was this just was that what it was most Innovative it's not yeah you weren't you voted for Godzilla you didn't vote for the magnet yeah I think that's part of it it's to me it's very difficult to say that any one game is innovative to the point of you know having an award for it every year it to me it would make much more sense to have just innovation mean just something General in a game such as like a bash toy a rule set so you vote for a particular neck yeah I mean because that's that's where the Innovation is I mean that's a that's a good point when you look at it's like Toy Story okay what do they have they have a jump ramp right I mean that could be I mean it's happened but maybe the way that a jump ramp is implemented could be a big like to me it's it's like for instance I look back on no good Gophers right it has a jump ramp plenty of games have a jump ramp but what makes that one especially Innovative it's the fact that you could actually jump ramp towards the right into a hole in one which is a cool moment in the game like that leads to a cold moment so to me that's kind of what I Look to like if there's a new Mech does it lead if there was a kid yeah let's see but see Godzilla had two of them though Godzilla had the building right that was yeah that was pretty cool that changed the shot what's his butt what what do you mean some people say the building is just Doctor Who which I agree I mean it's not it's not but they they referred to how did how did Doctor Who change the ramps the building moving the fact that it was a reverse I agree I agree that it was still so cool right but then that's what I would say back like what shots did you know that divert it didn't like really divert anything but on Godzilla it did like if you change if you changed it it not only diverts the shots if you really dig down into it it changes to where certain other things start like your Bridge attack multiball that it may change from right or left it changes how you approach other modes like so to me that is true Innovation when something when a certain Mech in a game changes how you even play during certain phases of the game so to me that's that's what I look for as well so even Rush has a toy that that has an Innovative feed innovated oh God I can't talk I'm gonna talk like I'm five you fit right into this group don't worry yeah thank you yeah uh the the ramp on uh on Rush premium oh raising up and down no with it lights up it does pretty cool stuff with those lights so I think this is actually I I this is a great idea because I think if instead of the voting being like which game's most Innovative Rush versus this versus this if it would have been like Rush light up ramp compared to alien uh you know grabbing the ball with the mouth compared to Fathom having uh displays in the apron you know like that's unique you know like if they would have mentioned each individual thing which of these things do we feel is is the biggest like wow yeah okay I I I mean because otherwise we might as well say like the best Innovation is like an LCD screen every single year yeah and that's probably the difference well no you we might as well say like start an Insider connected forever will be the biggest Innovation because now we can update it yeah yeah so I mean I think it's useful we just have to properly properly Define innovation I think we just got to be careful of of putting that as a blanket on a game I think it would be better to highlight certain individual stuff because there is a lot of engineering that goes into this yeah where there's a lot of decision making that comes from people that may not even be the engineers it may be the coders it may you know what I mean so like stuff like that that's no I think I think that that would just be a better way to go about it I agree and and if anybody listening watched uh so so the pinball Awards it's on if you go to the pinball Network on YouTube you can watch it there um um it's under the live section it was fantastic I I really enjoyed it extremely well produced for a live show I mean I it was great we we had a lot of uh Talent if you want to say that in that room that you know we all pitched in on making you know doing our parts and George uh George Fisher you know we with OBS he's a wizard he knows what he's doing Jason was there with audio like we had all the pieces we needed to have a great time and uh yes I know we were very proud with how it went and I'm looking forward to next year I'm looking forward to doing it again the best moment Joel yeah was when you got up in front of the stuff and you were like so so that moment that moment so we gave Greg and Zach a a screen that they had on a monitor that they had on their Podium so they could see what was actually on Stream So they would know we didn't hear the videos so we in the room we had no idea what like it was silent when the videos were playing between uh categories so we didn't know like he was what they were watching those videos and then George was like 10 seconds five seconds and then he'd kind of point where to go well what Zach didn't know was that monitor was touch screen so he was actually looking at the same monitor that George was so he touched the screen and he actually changed scenes so we were in the middle of the video and he changed the scene and then then it was kind of a scramble to where were we let's get back to the scene kind of thing and so George just like turned on the mic so it wasn't silent so we could hear exactly like oh I messed up what'd I do you know and so in the room people are like well what like Zach's like what are we looking at like what are we looking at right now and George Goes uh Joel because somebody had clicked my scene so I'm just standing there like oh what's going on and they're like what are we looking at uh Joel and then everybody in the room looks at me so apparently I panic and the response is this I don't know like just pumping my arms so it ended up creating a question I don't know I don't I don't know so when you when I realize I'm on camera apparently that's what I'm gonna do but anyways pinball Awards it was fantastic check it out but if you have any feedback like that's actually a really good point instead of doing just most Innovative pinball machine actually what's the most Innovative thing I like that I like that I think that would be worth proposing to the to the committee but yeah feel free to email the pinball Network gmail.com thoughts anything like that or comment comment on the comment on the video on YouTube other Awards Believe It or Not Travis won a pinball degenerates award I'm sorry I'm supposed to do this like Joel did yeah so uh pinball degenerates award for what the most degenerate score who would have guessed who would have guessed your zero zero ball one is going that's it's just proof I don't have to flip the ball to be a Carl score yeah or to beat it Eric Stillman score I sure didn't get that award yeah yeah he had to do so well he just got a trophy and a bunch of money no yeah I got a trophy too oh that's true you got a plaque I don't know if they're giving money though for it yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but you're screwed you definitely need to put that behind you and continue to improve around yeah I will and it's probably gonna yeah it's gonna go somewhere back there let's talk about what I won what did you win did you win nothing oh the Pima degenerate Awards it's uh it's the pinball degenerates Facebook group it's a very entertaining group feel free to check them out um but yeah there were a lot of nominations for different things um shout out to um the pinballers they won the best uh game room or the the most degenerate game room which was pretty cool so um yeah very neat very neat but I think that's it for awards uh we really I mean nothing really coming until twippies and we'll we'll have to talk about that um after we record in late March so should be a good time other people you can do a live show oh yeah we will all be there all three of us as of right now should be at um Texas pinball Festival which should be real good if only we had mics that we could take with us in a recorder we're gonna put that on Travis we'll see we'll see okay it probably won't get done then sorry guys other things worth discussing um let's just go ahead and dive right into Scooby-Doo Scooby-Doo um it's come out the the spooky team did a live stream it wasn't live they recorded it and then put it up on YouTube um it's been out for a little while now I know all three of us have watched it um we'll start with Tom Tom initial impressions of what you saw from the Scooby-Doo gameplay um it was interesting okay solid thank you what any any particular things you found interesting no so you did not buy one that's what I'm hearing you did not run out it was fine um I I thought the quality of the actual presentation could have been upped but yeah yeah but it was you know it was spooky so gotta give them a pass um of course why not uh the the bookcase flippers interesting yeah [Music] um actually I thought that worked pretty well considering uh it's it's very different uh that that left Flipper on upper Flipper on the Playfield but um I I didn't watch like a ton of it so I haven't really like studied up on it or anything like that so I'd like to hear your guys thoughts oh uh well Tom would you would you would you say the the upper flipper would would be Innovative do you think that would qualify as an Innovative Mech yeah yeah I think that would qualify for sure yeah so what he's describing on the upper Playfield on spooky it actually it's almost like a big L you have instead of your flipper it's like an extension on that and so what is unique is when you hit the center ramp which actually goes up to the upper Playfield you have to hold the upper left flipper like you would normally and that actually moves that back part so that it stops the ball from just rolling right past the upper Playfield onto a ramp so you have to kind of get used to that and then the way that you're doing it when you let go of the upper flipper if you time it right it almost like slingshots the ball over to the right so you kind of have to use it to aim as well it's it's a very unique way to control um the ball movement up there um almost like a teeter-totter or something yeah yeah well I think that that's probably the most interesting thing in the game because the upper Flipper's set to look like the bookcase which fits into the theme the fact that you could not engage it let it still come down right to the left flipper again or you could engage it like Joel said hold it up and then use that top part of it to slingshot it into I guess it's a Scooby-Doo lane or something like that or you could even let it roll down a little bit and use the bottom part of it yeah so I mean that that is pretty cool two separate areas to use as a flipper with this Mech I agree I will say the um the upper flipper though because of that and I don't know if it's just the extra weight on the mech itself but it's it doesn't seem like the ball that comes off that left flipper is super fast like it seems kind of slow and I don't know if that's a good or bad thing I mean we'll have to figure that out when we actually play it but there are there are a bunch of shots and that upper Playfield I held the upper Playfield we had one to give away at the pinball Awards it's huge it is a huge Playfield there's like five or six shots up there there's a horseshoe up there so you have two shots there a bash toy and then there's like three shots over to the right and I don't think you can backhand some of those shots on the right so you're gonna have to be able to hit that with the upper flipper and whether or not you do it normally from The Flipper slingshot it I don't know this game is full of horseshoes a lot of horseshoes yeah I think there's a lot if you like horseshoes this is your game yeah if you like hitting a shot and immediately coming back at you this is your game um no I will say at least well you go first Travis what are your thoughts your takeaways from Scooby-Doo I mean it's so like I said I'm not gonna really how do I wear this so I I do agree with Tom I I wish that the presentation of the actual stream would have been a little bit better but at the same time it's like I you know at least that there's a stream out it's something you know yeah I think they know anybody in Wisconsin that that comes through they are gonna do an actual Jack danger stream the problem is which is kind of strange to me as well since Jack is an Eastern employee yeah yeah he's actual pinball designer so I mean it's just yeah but it is what it is at least they're getting it out either way so but that being said it's so for me it was kind of difficult to listen in to what was going on because sometimes the game audio was clipping out of what they were they were trying to convey and so that that part was a little chaotic for me but you know at least just putting on mute and just following shots and following what the LCD screen was saying it a lot of stuff made sense to me with what was going on the the main takeaway that I took from it is the gameplay will take forever on this game like the ball times are forever and one of the things that I was concerned about that we talked about before this even got like the gameplay reveal is the far right hand side leading up from basically the right in Lane all the way up to I guess it would be like a ride orbit shot or the other horseshoe shots and all that there's really nothing but that one slingshot that's going to toss the ball out so when you look at this design nothing about it is really designed to be dangerous in general to go to the outlets and we even looked at some measurements and it's like even the Gap from the post on the left hand side to I guess that big plastic part the the gaps yeah really not there for a ball to go to the left out lane and it's a double left out lane there so it's just kind of like unused parts of the play field and I notice I I think I might have saw it took about 20 to 25 minutes into this video until like a 40 minute gameplay video to even see a ball all go to an outlane I think if I remember everything yeah everything seemed to be draining right down the middle and then they also have a Target that will come up and actually save the ball yeah from down the middle so all of that combined is a little bit concerning for me but at the same time it's I think that this game is not necessarily for people that are on location I think it's more for people that are in a home environment because if this is on location you almost have to pull those posts out completely but even then it's like that could be dangerous because I think that that makes the plastic to those to the in lane and out lane just I think that makes it too exposed where then you'd have chip Plastics too so I'm curious to see how that works because none of the shots are seem dangerous going to out lanes and then even on that left side you even have the lowest drop Target right it it seems to block shots going that direction as well and everything just seems to just easily feed left in lane or go right back to the flippers I totally really agree that was my first you know I realized I was what 10 plus minutes it felt like into the video and bug was still on his first ball and and I know the designer said the reason they did so many horseshoe shots is they needed dangerous shots they needed shots that sent the ball back at the flippers quickly because every other shot that isn't a horseshoe is a safe feed into a habit Trail there's like four or five habit trails that all feed your lower flipper like so the problem is the problem is though a horseshoe shot even if it feeds Back The Flipper that's still a safe shot that's not dangerous for anybody that's above a casual they're gonna learn to dead bounce it they're going to learn to catch it so I mean unless that Ball's like go into a slingshot or something like that which you know I I just think by looking at by design it feels like to me that this is designed for the Casual in mind to have long game times they have long of all times I think they even said in their video like something about tournament Players but well yeah they're they're obviously they want this to be in tournaments no I don't think so or yeah it just I don't look at this game and think that it's designed with anything in mind other than the Casual playing at home and getting to play for a long time well so that brings up to another thing but to to um to wrap up what I would say is the physical layout I I I know when we watched the spooky uh the the the the Halloween stream like immediately we were just like what is going on I mean with the with the scoops and the rejections and all this stuff like there were immediate issues that we saw so I will say coming out of the Scooby-Doo stream there wasn't immediate issues that I saw when it came to Mechanical or layout what I will say though is like yeah that lower left side there's two rows of drop targets I don't I barely saw those used the lower right side they added an extra sling because there isn't anything there I I don't know if I ever even saw it go off the outlines are barely used and then that middle diverter you can like collect Scooby snacks and then that gives you up to three saves so it's almost like you have this ball saved that's constant yeah well the gameplay is too vertical too that's the thing the game does not require you to go horizontal not at all it's I mean even then because they have timers that time you out of stuff and the timers just it it seems lopsided with what the design is because I don't recall anybody even finishing a mode really until like about 18 minutes into the video and then I saw the unmasked bonus isn't that how they finish the mode like it's kind of like collecting a gym you can finish a mode but then if you unmask them you get like that's where all the rights are at finishing them out starts that hurry up right sure yeah so that's that's what I'm wondering did any other modes get completed well easier because it felt like they were timing out of a lot of stuff I don't there was so apparently there are actual character modes and I didn't see any of those those aren't in there yet and then I didn't see any multiball associated with the apron locks I didn't see anything with that there yet but overall just speaking of code so to wrap up the overall physical layout I want to shoot it I think it looks unique um it didn't look floaty like a wide body because it is a standard body on the bottom you would disagree I thought the game looked really floaty at one point the ball got stuck on the upper Playfield because it lost moment well the upper Playfield though seems slow the upper Playfield seemed slow everything just looks slow to me like it just that's that's the main takeaway I know talking to a lot of other players that watch it as well the vast majority felt like the game looked floaty okay but but it's interesting you don't think it looked floating everybody's entitled to that I don't know easy I thought the layout you know there were plenty of reveal streams that we see and it's you put some in this this is kind of another conversation but it's you know like Stern or dead flip will do a reveal stream and you'll get these people that step up to it or even Buffalo when they did the some of the reveal streams like when they did the um I think it was Wonka or Pirates and you had just casual people walk up all of a sudden the game looks like a brick Fest and yeah and when you compare that to the people that are actually designing the game who have played this game more than anybody else on the planet they you know is the game easy or did they just make the game look easy because they know the shots like here's the problem go into other people streaming here's the problem though like even even you just said like and I agree the game looked easy overall there wasn't many outline drains but then why were modes not getting completed so on a regular basis yeah the equilibrium is off right now well so I would say the physical layout That's my kind of my takeaway but it looks great the light shows I'm really happy with that now talking about code that's what I think is you is weird here is I actually think the code is actually rather complex they actually some of these modes are are pretty involved um and that's what it's like well why aren't we seeing these Complete because they're long like they they made these these modes very unique like one of the modes you have to find certain shots at the bottom side but to do that you have to collect air up in the upper Playfield so you have to hit a bunch of shots there Captain Cutler yeah once you get enough air then you can go down low and hit a bunch of shots it's like there are there's steps here one of the modes is a safe you're literally trying to crack a code so you're trying to see there's four shots and you have to hit them in a very particular order so you got to remember what you hit and hit it in that order so to me I think it's like an i You're gonna laugh but like I said above average player I would say that's exciting that's exciting to me that these are unique in Creative code but yet we just said it seems like this layout is made for novice or casual people these rules are not for novice cabbage casual people they're not going to have any idea what they're doing I was I was looking at agile and I was even thinking I would have a hard time completing some of these modes because it seem it seems to happen so quick and even at one point even at one point they actually I think this is like I'm looking at the screenshot right now this is about 18 minutes and 45 seconds into the video they even put up a disclaimer of text over it and says that a mode can be super complicated they play it again later stay tuned and that was when they got into like the mystery van multiball the multiball yeah and yeah they couldn't they couldn't explain it within 10 seconds it just seemed like and then it happened so fast like nobody knew what happened there's no way the viewer knew what happened I still don't know what happened I just know that that multiball was there so yeah that's that's the thing it just seems like that there's a lot of shots for certain things it seems to be obviously that they're creating a a wide mix of diversity in terms of like what type of shots you need to hit and how often you need to hit them that's what it seems like that they're going for and that's fine it's just at the same time you still want these modes to be accessible for people for people so if it's accessible that would be great but even watching all them play and they've played it plenty of times that was the concerning part that I saw that there was modes not being completed on a regular basis it just felt like the timers went much quicker than what they should have been compared to how many shots had to be completed okay well that would be a great we don't have to transition but that that actually makes me think about this game right here at Cactus Canyon a lot and we're gonna we're gonna talk about that but when it kind of brings up this bigger picture and maybe feel free to write in triple drain gmail.com or or Facebook message us but the thought there's like if you're designing a game for novice people and no I don't think any manufacturer today is designing a game for novice people because that would completely turn off the rest of the pinball buyers that are like oh the game's too easy but that's kind of a question is like what what do novice players actually want because they don't want deep code they don't care they need something quick shallow that's going to give them instant gratification so to me I I mean Cactus Canyon we're going to dive into that that game does that very well but like the jump ramp in um the Duke Kaboom ramp in Toy Story simple it's already lit it's one shot and then they keep trying it until they hit it like that's a simple novice level thing for instant gratification um Godzilla the thing right up in the middle is the building just keep hitting it you're gonna get your satisfaction so I'm thinking like Scooby if the layout is supposed to be more friendly you know what are they putting into that game like I think the Captain Cutler thing up at the top is kind of a bash toy and there's magnets maybe that's the thing that that novice will want to do I don't know I I don't know I look I look at it and I mean I went ahead I asked my kids I asked my wife I asked my friends and family like out of this layout what do you guys think what interests you the most and overwhelmingly everybody was saying the upper Playfield no nobody cared about the drop Target still left nobody cared that it was a wide body nobody cared about the Spinners everybody cared about the upper Playfield in that flipper Mech that we talked about earlier there's a bookcase so that that would be the part to go so now it's just a matter of making that accessible to people that's close to the start button that'd be the goal here's an interesting thought and and so think back to um Simpson's pinball party the first time you go to the upper Playfield it holds the ball and then it snaps that upper flipper to like let you know like hey it's right here so there's nothing in there from a mechanical standpoint that would that would because the Center ramp is what feeds the upper upper Playfield but unless you have that flipper held that ball is going to go whizzing by you so that to me is like as a novice player they're not going to be prepared for that so I'm almost curious what if they coded in that the very first time you hit that upper Playfield it automatically holds your left flipper up you know something to just show that like oh like I think there needs to be some hand holding for these novice players otherwise the ball's just gonna whiz by every time they're never going to be able to do anything on the upper play field no that's true and I think a lot of this depends too are these players playing on location and I think Scooby-Doo would be a good location theme I think a lot of people can see it unlike my camera but I mean what what do you think Tom between between this because you know I mean we've all seen what Bond's done on location and we've heard some people report that Bond's done fantastic on location we've heard others say it's not doing as well so when you look at this is just like two majorly different themes from a very similar era but I'm curious to see how Scooby-Doo carries over on a location setting yeah I don't know it's it's hard to say because I I think it'll do well just based on theme oh yeah so I think the people are going to gravitate toward towards it just because of the theme whether they keep putting money in it that's another story but I I if it's accessible which it seems like it is I think it'll do well yeah you know I I think one of the big things is the bash toy on the mini play field too which we haven't really touched on I I think I think people are really like bash toys oh yeah uh especially something like that where it's not going to absolutely kill you because it's not in front of your flippers so um I I it's hard to say now I've seen some spookies on location and they're usually down so is this one gonna survive the test and uh you know be be up and running you know kind of thing uh where it's not having issues um that's another story like operating system they did a whole new um all the parts underneath that they're it's a whole new system so how reliable is it I don't know we'll have to see what are you saying Travis no I was just echoing Tom that is a big deal I mean I know the location that I used to play at down in Oklahoma City at Cactus Jacks they they usually get every single spooky game so I played every single spooky that's been created at this point and yeah they they go down quicker than what they should and it is a little bit frustrating because there are certain games that you want to be able to play for a while like a TNA or a Rick and Morty yeah you know or even Alice Cooper there's some interesting shots on there so yeah I I hopefully that these issues have been addressed because I mean obviously the longer the game stay up on location the more people get interested in your company and your teams that you're producing the more you can get your brand out there so yeah hopefully that can be done and I I see this doing well on location as long as it doesn't make those sounds every one of your games is updating it's Godzilla again yeah right yeah it's like you know it's ready but yeah I think the upper play field is pretty cool um the ball obviously is designed stay up there for as long as you can with that middle post yeah between the Middle post up there yeah it's it is very friendly and I will I think you're right I think you're on to something there if novice see that and the fact that the hands move of the guy and it's a bash toy up there that would be a pretty easy like hey hit the center ramp it's gonna go up there but you gotta hold your flipper up and then just keep trying to hit him and start a multi-ball like that's a very easy thing to communicate but I don't I mean My overall takeaways from the stream were like I'm excited to play it I'm I'm impressed with how much code is already in the game like I think they've really there's a lot in there and they're only going to add more you know really great video clips they've got good call outs like I love that the code the the actual modes are creative I I think that's and they're very each mode was very unique based on the villain and trying to tell a story so I think they're doing a lot right I think they're doing a lot right but until more people touch the game and really feel like how does it it shoot is it too easy how do you adjust that I don't know but but regardless there wasn't any I didn't walk away with like a bad taste in my mouth it was like okay that's a good that was a good first showing and let's see what's you know let's see what happens after that I think this is a mile step up from Halloween and alternative yeah oh yeah yeah I I I think fully what's interesting about this game is I felt like the people that bought it before seeing it they they were just fine with seeing it they're like okay yeah I made the right decision and I think the people that decided not to buy it but okay fine I made the right decision I feel like everybody saw what they expected to see out of it I don't think that there was any general surprises well out of anybody it feels like so that reveal happened right it was the Friday before the pinball Awards so I was there and I was there with Zach and Zach I mean he's he's checking his phone all the time because it's like the business never stops and he's like well sold you know sold two more uh Scooby-Doo's from that stream and sometimes streams are the exact opposite right you get you get calls of like canceling orders because they saw streams so it was I would say the overall feedback from the stream is good is good um but yeah I I had mentioned Cactus Canyon I want to bring this up and I will say this game so Cactus Canyon this is Zach's Cactus Canyon remake Ellie I brought that from his house and this is what I'm streaming until um I'm assuming Bond 60th or Scooby-Doo or something that's coming out I had very low expectations for this game this game I was told by a lot of people you will get bored you will get bored of this game the code is very shallow so I just to me I don't know I and I know there weren't a ton of you know this didn't have the same love as uh Monster Bash Medieval Madness attack from Mars I had very low expectations for this game I am really enjoying this game and I know that this is hard for Travis and Tom to understand because like this game the topper lights up man it has a light that goes back and forth okay the top bar you love it the topper is legitimately impressive now don't get like I have a Deadpool topper I'm a fan of that I have the turtles topper I will gladly buy the Godzilla topper when it comes out this topper is a whole nother level the way it's built like it is it is sturdy I'm pretty sure I could drop this thing and it wouldn't break like it is sturdy let's try it right now but like the topper is what I've had friends and family over everybody's like whoa they're taking taken back by it but then what is cool though is there are times in the game when you do the to the um whatever the shootout and different things when you hit a drop Target anytime you shoot a bad guy the whole guy he like knocks back so there's an audible like knock sound and just having that when you're playing and like hearing it it's it's just one more little bit of sensory you know input that's fun his arms don't go crazy like they did in the video like they're actually choreographed very well and then the topper mode is fun like it is a fun it's way more fun than the video mode would have been so I will say anybody that's thinking about buying the cactus a cactus Can You remake it is worth buying the SE plus like the topper truly is incredible bye bye bye bye bye I'm gonna show the heck out of it but what we were saying though is like what has blown me away from this game is how much my friends and family have genuinely liked the game and I think it is because it is so accessible the the theme is understood it's Cowboys um the theme integration is incredibly well done the shots like my wife actually played this game she actually touched one of my pinball machines my wife did and what did she do she actually hit shots like she actually was hitting the center ramp and like it's accessible it's easy to hit so you feel like for novice players you actually feel good I actually felt good playing the game my brother we played we streamed it the other night he stepped right up and was able to hit shots and when you can hit things you feel it's way more fun than bricking that's for sure but then like my kids and everybody like oh I love that his hat flies up when you hit the bash toy it's a bachelor like bash toys are super accessible everybody understands you hit the guy and his hat flies up um the quick draw the fact that it stops the ball and gives you a little scene where it's popping up targets and oh it's very like what like there's no explanation needed there's one target that's lit up it stopped the ball for you hit that Target like I just that's the thing my friends and family actually were hitting the start button over and over and over again and I just haven't experienced that I haven't with all the other games Zach's let me borrow that this is the first game that like my friends and family have truly enjoyed and walking away from the stream like my brother I would consider him he's gotten to be a pretty decent player he walked away from the stream and he's like that's the most fun game we've streamed and I was like really and and I he goes I enjoyed playing that game more than every other game you own except for Godzilla that was is one exception but I was like you like Cactus Canyon more than Deadpool and he goes I think I do he he's like I love Deadpool I love the theme it's a fun game it's funny but he's like genuine though I had more fun though playing Cactus Canyon so I don't know it's just what and that just is it's it's it's screwing me up guys dude do you want to answer why Travis or should I you you can answer first and I'll answer a second okay um so I I think the reason for that is a couple of things one is the rules are extremely easy to understand yes so you hit these three shots it starts a mode you know it's it's a typical Bally Williams era rule set whereas you compare that to today's rule sets with Deadpool Godzilla oh yeah yada yada yada um they're complex so they're harder for people to the novice people to understand um and then you have you have really cool toys on that game honestly like you said you have the the guy with the hat was that Bart yep um you have the gold mine that raises and lowers you have the drop targets uh you have the little train that goes by you know so there's there's a lot of stuff on that game um the reason I particularly don't care for it and I I shouldn't say that I I like going out to a location and playing it okay but I wouldn't have it in my house because it's too easy you know so and I'll let you talk Travis but speaking on too easy like my brother the second game he played on it he was actually progressing pretty far in the game the second game he played now I explained the rules and whatnot but I think he had gotten through all the modes so that's I think Stampede and then I think he had started uh what is it shootout um Showdown which is when you get all the all the Quick Draw targets so it's like he got two through two of the five things just on a second game and um and I I when we streamed it the other night that's the first time that I've truly played it for an extended period of time I was one shot away from The Wizard mode so I had missed motherload motherload is the multi-ball mode which I will say is awesome like multi-ball you start multiball all five jackpot shots are hit once you do that then the mode the the the gold mine scoop is Raising and lowering opening and you have to time it when it's open and just like it reminded me of the Groot head when I had a Guardians of the Galaxy like there's one of the modes the head mouth is going up and down and you have to time the shot right very cool very very cool so but what sucked is I I drained I missed it I missed it and so I would have had to grind all the way back into multiball to have another chance at it but that was it if I would have completed motherload I did everything else needed to qualify High Noon which is I think it's high noon no high noon okay Corral yeah the the Wizard mode so this is something I mean I'm definitely going to keep playing this game because maybe if I get to the wizard mode I'll lose all sense of enjoyment I don't I don't know but even even just playing it you know when I'm streaming I'm playing a game for two hours straight he kept drawing me back in it kept drawing me back in and I wanted to play more but I don't know Travis thoughts on no I mean you're pretty much saying exactly what everybody in pinball kind of knows about it I mean it's that that was the thing about it at the very beginning too when it went on location it just there wasn't many of them produced I think there was maybe like 900 total and then they ended up going to like pinball 2000 platform or whatever it was back then so but yeah one of the big draws of it though for people when they first start playing is that everything is truly accessible to it and we keep using this term apparently all all podcasts long but it's true because the plunge comes directly to right flipper so you're never going to get a house ball or anything like that you really don't even have to use the pulse save it's basically a fan layout there's just really no true dangerous shots in the game and you know that's a big reason why my wife and my kids were drawn to it years ago because it is on location or original down Oklahoma City as well so we had plenty of time on it it just it comes down to things are very easy to start and shots are very easy to hit so when you mix those two things together it provides a good experience overall and this is this kind of goes back to what we were talking about with Scooby-Doo that you got to be careful of making things to over complicated compared to with how difficult the game shoots or how easy the game shoots and I think with Cactus Canyon for a lot of people it's it's easy to approach oh yeah that being said because it's so easy to approach if you have multiple games in your collection you may and you've mastered them all like you've gotten to say you get to like a wizard mode on like Mandalorian or something like that that's a lot of wood chopping right you're probably going to destroy Cactus Canyon fairly quickly that's just the reality of it and you know for a potential buyer you got to decide is that worth it to you is it worth the top or is it worth some of the movement in the game to have something that you may end up eating on a consistent basis and some people are perfectly fine with that it's just and there's other people that as soon as they beat the game they lose all interesting so the last thing you want to do is spend ten twelve thousand dollars however much they are now on a game and then lose interest in it within a month I totally agree and I will say the other things that I do enjoy with the game the XL display the Excel dot display is gorgeous the speaker lights on this thing are awesome like the light show is super impressive um it's just I I cgc as a whole I'm really impressed the the game is incredibly well built it's freaking heavy like getting this thing down in the basement um and the play field is perfect like that I know they still screen print their play fails but they're just like it is a drastic difference comparing that play field to a Stern play field and it I I'm just I'm really impressed I'm very impressed by this game but it it impressed me so much that like here I am racking my brain where if I'm in a constant pursuit of four games four games that I I can own but I want to find that balance of a game that draws me in but also a game that my friends and family want to actually play and play on their own it's made me question do should I should I have a cgc game should I have a Medieval Madness or an attack from Mars or a Cactus Canyon or a Monster Bash as one of those four games have a game that's incredibly well done but is it is you know well liked by novice people and when I was streaming it there were people in chat that were like I have a Cactus Canyon will never leave it's my most played game by my friends and and that's the thing just having do I think it's a a one pin collection game probably not you will get bored of it but in a four pin or larger collection having a game like that that anybody can step up to and have a good time it's really made me think about it it's really made me think about trying to buy one of these but I'm stuck like I love this topper I feel like I have to get an Ellie or an Le or an sc plus and it's made me look back where it's like knowing how good this light show is they don't have those RGB LEDs in Attack From Mars they never made one that way they made with with Medieval Madness the Royal Edition has that light show and the extended XL display with the lights but you have to you either have to have the Royal Edition or you have to buy the upgrade kits to upgrade your old one Monster Bash has that but I was looking like I'm watching Monster Bash videos you like fall into modes on this you just hit a shot three times times and you're in the mode Monster Bash isn't that way there's a little more complexity to it and I'm curious if that little more complexity is would be a turn off like to the to the novice people I don't know no well most people know what Monster Bash is too and casuals love that as well I mean seeing Universal monsters seeing Frankenstein come up and down it's you know and then seeing Dracula you eventually get them started going back and forth so yeah these are just things from that era to where the rule sets very much weren't super deep on most of the games but it did have certain mechs that were you were able to see very early in the game and for somebody that's dropping coins into a game that makes sense that's what you want and so it does make complete sense that a novice or a casual would be into something like this and that's pretty much what they had to do too because if you look at it none of these themes are really licensed themes either so it's not like people are being sold on just the theme it's self I like they're being sold on the general idea of the theme so Cactus Canyon it's not because oh it's Cactus Canyons because oh it's it's bad guys it's a western it's stuff like that that makes more sense it's the same way attack from Mars it's not because oh it's attacked from Mars it's because it's alienated you see a spaceship yeah so I mean these are just decisions to design decisions coding decisions that were very much based off the era their time it's like a snapshot I I don't think that you would see the same thing really be done too much nowadays no I just can't I can't recall anything off the top of my head that's really like that in general you know I mean there's there's bash toys there is like walking dead but look at stranger things look at stranger stranger things did you hit three shots and it starts to load that was going to be the only example yeah like whenever you put a bash toy somewhere that that is what people associate I mean it's just like even Walking Dead there's people probably have really no idea what the rules there's a lot of people that don't even realize what the drop targets do in relation to prison and to the well Walker but they know the well Walker's right there they're just going to hit the [ __ ] out of them multiple times still eventually starts to multiple so yeah it you just see Hallmarks of that but I don't think I can't really recall games being produced that fall into the more Cactus Canyon buy because it's even like like monsters for instance right they went shallower code on that and they did it on purpose and a lot of people that are still into that theme at least they do have that bash toy with Herman like you had to have something like that you had to have that hook with it so I mean that's basically that and stranger things might be the only two things that I can really think of like up close because I know Mando didn't have it no you know no Amy even though I had a little dangly Target that wasn't something that you know anybody really really cared about so it's it's really made me think though that like I don't know I see the appeal with a cgc type game in my in my game collection but here I am if in my head I'm like well what do I which one should I get should I get if I'm gonna do that if I'm gonna do that type of thing do you go Cactus can you do go Monster Bash do you go Medieval Madness well the one thing that keeps kind of pulling me towards Cactus Canyon is the potential Lyman 2.0 code like is this game going to have its current code set which everybody will love and then is there going to be a deeper version of the game for everyone else to enjoy that when you start you hold in the flippers or something you peel the you pick the other one like if that that would be that would be the perfect case scenario right that would be give me this game so all my friends and family can love it every time they play it but then if I get bored of it give me the code set that I can go way deeper when like that sounds awesome that sounds awesome but I also know that's kind of a it's very up in the air is that actually going to happen at this point I don't I don't know that answer we we haven't really heard anything else really about it other than what I think Josh sharp went on uh Jeff teolis's podcast pinball profile shortly you know after Lyman had passed away and I think he kind of mentioned code a little bit but then after that I mean I don't I don't know I I don't really know anything else about it I thought I had heard that they they had they had a really good game plan of all the stuff they wanted to do but it was Lyman he's the one that's actually typing in the code and at this point I don't know who is going to want to open up that file and start tweaking like who who would want to take on that responsibility like I don't I don't know I I pity the person that does but at the same time if you if you're the guy doing it thank you thank you for doing it and and hopefully we can get that code out and finish this code but I don't we I mean to wrap it all up I just overall I was not prepared to like this game at all I thought it would be fun I thought it'd be fun it'll be a fun thing to play for two three weeks before I get something else but this this game and maybe it's just it's the first cgc game remake game I've had I'm incredibly impressed with the build quality the the upgrade to like I don't wanna I have no interest in owning an original Cactus Canyon all the bells and whistles that they put in this thing are incredibly well done um the topper is incredibly well done like this is a fun game this is a fun game that I'm enjoying and that's what I was reading in chat when I was playing it like people are just like Cactus Canyon is just fun pinball if you're okay with that to have a good time but yeah does it warrant a spot in your collection because you may only have fun with it for 30 minutes and you're bored and you want to go play another game fine I don't I don't know I don't know how to answer but that's a personal choice for everyone um but we will see so the challenge there and this is the segue is if I was to get a game like this I would have to give up one of my games I would perhaps to sell it or trade it and what's crazy to me is that game Deadpool would probably be the one I'd have to sell or trade and so that's a whole nother thing like am I willing to give that up I don't know but that leads me to a really good question and this was a viewer submitted question which is when do you sell a game when do you sell a game and how do you handle sellers remorse so Tom I don't know how much you want to get into it because I know you have some games going out and a potential game coming in I don't know if you want to disclose any of that but mentally how do you wrap your head around when is it time for a game to leave and then seller's remorse so you can go first we'll get in I'm going to be doing a trade soon but we'll get we'll get into that in a different episode sounds good um but um I I think I think you're just you get to a point with the game it's like I've seen everything it's just not doing anything for me anymore and it's uh time to go on to something new new games come out you want to try them out um but uh I I have I have bought games back and the magic the second time around just wasn't there okay um this was more early on I guess but like I I've had uh I had a Starship Troopers and I really liked it when I had it and I got it back and it was it just wasn't the same and uh Judge Dredd same thing so um but uh yeah I it's just uh I I guess maybe I'd have more buyer's remorse in a smaller collection kind of you know you know if I had four games I think it might be a little harder than when you have 35 to 40. what about your emotional like there are people that they're like well I can't sell that game because it's the first game I had or it's I can't say that game because my son and I refinished the whole game and I can't like there's some of that like Spider-Man was the first game I bought new in box I still love that game I I don't think I'll ever sell it um Raj yeah will not leave well it's luckily it will not leave Joel but luckily it's a good game right that's the challenge and I don't mean this in I don't mean you know Ray I'm sorry but there are there are people that bought Led Zeppelin because it's Led Zeppelin and that's a dream theme and they just they don't like the game and now they're stuck they're stuck because they're like it's my dream theme but but you know and I I think I I will tell you Led Zeppelin I had a blast on you can get them now they're available they're selling for cheap I would absolutely encourage people to give it a shot that game is actually a ton of fun with that said though there are people that that was like that's their dream team they have it and now they're like it's the emotional pull versus like the actual are you playing it you know if you're not playing the game that's my that's my thing if I own a game and I realize like to be 100 honest right now when I come down into my basement if I only have time to play one or two games the two games that I'm actually playing are Cactus Canyon and Godzilla like these are the two so I haven't put much time on on Deadpool recently and that's just because I have two other games that are polling grabbing my attention um that's kind of my rule of thumb another thing that I would highly suggest is make some friends and if you have the ability to trade what's that like yeah if you have the ability to Trade A Game do it and what I mean by that is um Jurassic Park I wanted I wanted to play Jurassic Park I wanted to experience it I wanted to have it but I didn't want to commit to buying it and I also didn't want to commit to selling anything so luckily I had a friend Ryan who's in who's in the area and so he's borrowing TNA I'm borrowing Jurassic Park having TNA now out of the house really makes me you know it makes you question like do I miss it my answer is yes I do I absolutely miss having TNA here I'm looking forward to getting TNA back but when you have that opportunity to trade away a game and you're like I haven't been able to play it in two months I haven't missed it well it's probably time to sell it it's probably some time to sell and I've been able to do that with turtles moving Turtles to my parents house has actually really made me appreciate Turtles more because I play it every time I go to my parents house like it's the only game here I might as well flip it around it's like man I miss this game this is a fun game like I I really so that's the thing like make sure if you do a trade you do it with somebody you trust yes and you know they're not gonna like take it out on route or sell it on you know yeah if you can do that though if you can get your game out of your house somewhere else whether it's a trade or let a friend borrow it or something that I mean that gives you a taste of what it would be like to sell it and if you're okay with that then then there's your answer otherwise if you're like I need it TNA come back to me I miss you like like I've sold TNA before and I regret like I know I won't make that mistake again but Travis what are your thoughts you've gone through games I mean well it's there's several different ways you could look at this so I would assume so what's the conditions that we're going off of if you have like 10 games or less to where you actually notice the game something like because if you have it and Tom can probably attest this when you have a big collection it's okay for some games will go a long time without being played the point that sometimes you just gotta flip it on and just plunge a few balls just to make sure that everything keeps working I have bunch of EMS that I do that with so this could happen with all errors what I would probably say based on I can't really speak to tell people what to do I can say how I like to do it I like to make sure I I identify my dream themes so I know it's Walking Dead you know it's Godzilla I know it's Avengers games like that and I got extremely lucky that two of my dream themes were designed by Elwood that's just that's just like pure luck at this point but yeah there's certain games out there so those three games I would have a very hard time getting rid of I would I wouldn't say Never Say Never about all of them except for Walking Dead and the only reason why is because that's the pin that my family bought for me and that was the very first pin that I ever owned because of that so it holds like such a close place to me it means a lot that's that's a good reason for me to never give up on that but that being said the strategy I use having that game and knowing that I'll never sell it that's the game I'm willing to trade with trusted people to bring a game in because I know I'm never going to sell it and I know I'm okay with not playing it for a few months so I've done multiple trades in the past or other games to see to get to play them to get figured out without having to drop six to eight thousand dollars on I've done that a lot so I would tell somebody find a game or two that you know you don't want to sell Joel missing the Elgato no signal I I'm trying to find the actual question but yes oh got it but no it's good it's 30 minutes it's like good like hey it's okay it's fine but no I I would say that that's a good reason to have a couple of games in which you know you never want to sell or at least it's highly unlikely that you will sell them then just be okay with trading it out with the people that you can trust in your local pinball community that would enable you to play a lot of other games that otherwise you wouldn't get a chance to to get to experience I think that's an easy way to go about it and that's why like TNA I was totally fine with trading out TNA like it would have been interesting if I traded out Deadpool maybe that would actually tell me like hey I haven't had it three months do I do I need it back do I miss it I I don't know the actual question here is yeah since you all own multiple games when such how do you decide to move on and sell a title I have a hard time letting go even if it's driving me crazy Mando is the answer I've always worried about seller's remorse I mean luckily most games if you if you truly ever had sellers remorse you can get almost any game back here's the reality of it too if you're not having fun every single time you're turning on the game just move on from it rip off the Band-Aid that fun isn't going to all of a sudden come back and you can you can decipher if you're just you know tired of a game for now and you need a break you can tell if you're like like you said a second ago Joel you love Deadpool you know you love Deadpool right so you're okay with taking a break from it it's not like as soon as you turn on the game you go there you'll say I'm not having fun with this game no but the bottom line is there's certain games when you get enough games in right and you've had a game for three years and you've beat it a few times the code's not getting updated anymore you know exactly what to do maybe you're just like as soon as you turn it on you don't get that feeling of joy as soon as you're playing it so why why keep on at that point move on from it just rip off the Band-Aid I probably promise you like I felt the same way about Star Wars love that game Star Wars is a dream theme I love the whole the whole stuff like anything to do with Star Wars I love it right but after a while of blowing up the Death Star after a while of just playing Han or Leia over and over and over again mixed in with some R2D2 and throwing around multipliers I finally just got tired of it yep and I found myself not playing it on a consistent basis so I moved on from it I missed it for a little while but then you know what found it on location put in a couple games not as good that was fine and then that told me I was perfectly fine with selling the game getting the money and not looking back and then moving on to other themes getting to experience different pinball and I think that's that's the biggest thing is don't be afraid of taking that chance and experiencing other games and find ways to play whatever theme that you had a hard time letting go of or whatever game you had a hard time letting go of just find a way to play it every now and again if you have a location nearby or if you know a friend that has it like if you can have that set up before you move on from the game and you know just kind of your fallback I mean that makes it so much easier in my opinion no and like Mando that person's like Mandos are available like you could sell that right now and worst case scenario six months from now boom you you can buy another one but I the only the only pin that I would say is if you're not having fun wait is like so like Bond if you own Bond right now bond is so far from being done like if you're not having fun with the layout that's not going to change but if you're just bored because the code's not there sure it I think if it's already there it's already in your house if you can wait you know another few months and let that code really start to flesh out then you get a better glimpse of how of of that game that one it's it would be hard but you might just have to wait on that but a lot of other games I get it like I I know exactly the fun that I'm gonna have with Deadpool but it's that game that you have in the back of your head of like if I can only have four is there a game that I would have more fun with and it hurts me to see when my friends and family come over and then they walk up to the games what games do they start they start Godzilla and they're starting Cactus Canyon nobody's playing Deadpool by themselves and it's like well like like I don't like why do you like that game I like that game why why are we not you know meeting on that so I don't know I'm not I don't know where I'm at with this but it's just this this this whole Cactus can you just throwing a hole it's it's really messing me up and I don't know how to feel about it and um it sounds like you're done with all the George Gomez interviews no no it's it's weird it's weird I mean I I when I was at uh uh Zach's Barn for the pinball Awards I mean beautiful games has an amazing collection like I stepped up and played as Deadpool and I had a great time you know there's there's plenty of games that I was you know wanted oh you got that I don't want to play that I want to see what that's like and others I'm like nah you know I just I just walk right by him like no interest um so I don't know it's an interesting question I think this even brings up another question that a lot of people probably have out there and it's if I'm not having fun on a game that I used to have fun on before but I don't want to let go of it how can I I guess like spice it up a little bit you know figure figure out figure out how to have fun with this pen again so I mean I find myself doing that a lot with different pins as well to where I decide to play it completely different than what I would have done before so even for Star Wars for a little while I just played Luke all the time and I developed a whole new strategy didn't really care if I was blown up points I just cared more about creating the moments with Luke and finding a different path yeah and so you can do that on a lot of games as well so if you have a game that's in your game room right now but you're like you know what I haven't played it that much I just haven't been having fun with it take a look at it again and play it completely different than you have before like it's a lot of fun playing the Godzilla saucer meta right if you're just tired of just playing Godzilla just go for saucers the whole time and it makes the game very interesting in that way and so even Walking Dead play The Well Walker meta the whole time that'll make it interesting stacking up with Riot there's just certain things you could look at with games just to completely change your approach to it and change your path and see if you might have fun that way another ways you could do it is maybe lower the difficulty level down from the multi balls so maybe you can get you can get Stacks a lot easier you can do something that you might not be doing on a regular basis when the game set the default or change the modes to be easy so maybe your journey to a wizard mode code isn't quite as daunting it doesn't feel like you're chopping wood as much I mean there's a lot of difference if you're getting to the wizard mode easier you know make your game harder challenge yourself a little bit Yeah Yeah change change some things I I would say the best thing to do would be maybe to change the multiballs to be a little bit more difficult but then that way you have a challenge of thinking of thinking your approach differently and I think that that goes a long way to making a game have more appeal when you can change up how you're approaching it how you're playing it and what you're actually doing during the gameplay okay no all good points all good points um well we do need to wrap it up a little bit we're almost at an hour and a half there was a comment I'm curious if how much you want to talk about it Travis but the only other thing that I have on here is it seems like the industry is slowing down a little bit and I don't know how much and you're seeing this I mean you're seeing this from a like you've got all the numbers you I mean you work for a pinball company but what are your thoughts I mean I know there's a lot of excitement coming around the corner you know there's some new games coming out soon tpf there may be multiple reveals I don't know if people are just you know bunkering up or I don't know if it's Christmas bills or waiting on that tax return I don't know so Travis what are your thoughts on on that no it's it's like anything else we talked about this a little bit off podcast of course January and February historically in any industry is typically not as great as quarter four like quarter one there's always a dip right but yeah it's kind of noticing a noticeable dip at this point you know you see certain games that are used games where the price has come way down on down on you see like I'm actually seeing Godzilla premiums available yeah right now out there and so I mean that's something that we haven't seen in quite some time which is crazy though because I know there are Distributors that they are so back ordered so some of these big Distributors they've got lists that they're not through and yet we got these small Distributors yeah so why is it that Stern distributes them in that manner I mean sales versus sales that are already committed versus new I don't know allocation and purchase orders is like a whole nother another podcast I don't even know if we could even talk about publicly anyways but I will say I will say that yeah it's noticeable that there is a Slowdown that's coming it's trending it's probably already here and we're in the middle of it I'm very curious to see how that affects used market and I'm very curious to see how that affects second runs of games okay coming up I don't know if we're going to see the same backlog of games obviously there's plenty of dealers have James Bonds they're out and I mean I don't recall like Rush sold very well right out of the gate very first time Godzilla did the same thing first run uh Mandalorian did great first run so this is kind of we're just noticing a Slowdown with that as well so when you look at all things considered this isn't happening just for one company Scooby-Doo didn't sell out right yeah Toy Story they didn't sell out yeah Toy Story was like quick out of the gate and then just the falling star came right back Bond and there are Toy Story there are Distributors that had to cancel they they put in orders they heard from jjp hey your order's ready and they said I I can't I already have so many in stock I can't right and and I know there are people there are Distributors doing that with Stern that of you yeah Mando's for you I don't I can't I already have them you know yeah so yeah so what you're going to see is is there's plenty of other pens coming out there's other Cornerstone so I'm sure at some point we'll see hopefully we see see gtf from American pinball you see GG I'm ready you see these Scooby-Doo's coming out you're gonna see more Cactus Canyons coming out and then of course you're going to have the cornerstones from from uh Stern yeah and then of course it's been wildly it's been rumored about a jersey Jack pen another one coming out and I could I imagine that there's gonna be another one at some point this year so yeah there's going to be plenty of options for Pinball it's just the question is is there going to be enough people wanting to buy the games or are we going to see the same velocity and it's interesting because it looks like that's starting to Trend down a little bit overall if we look at everything all put together and not just necessarily just one yeah just not one game because sure one game will sell yeah right but it is interesting that there we saw as of this morning there were Godzilla premiums being told that other people have gotten additional allocation of them and there's a reason why people are getting additional allocation of something you know I think we can all figure out why that is so it's like I mean it's a clear sign clear sign of the time so it's interesting you see what that does to prices overall because prices are rising from a manufacturing standpoint raw material inflation still doing whatever the hell it's doing and yeah I'm serious on the free play Pinball podcast that was a question they asked John Borg you know what's a part of the game that that's more expensive than people realize and he very quickly said the cabinet like yes and I you know the amount of wood that's in there or needed in the wood price are going up metal metal back box or in cgc's case I mean that's all wood like that's and he goes believe it or not like the the CPUs and stuff like those are relatively cheap it's not the electronics it's the it's the he you know screws and stuff a screw that used to cost 20 cents is now a dollar and 20 cents it's just so I don't I don't think the general public realizes how much cost has really risen in general and gotten passed on to through other like like take shipping for instance oh yeah you know price of gas has been up and down it's been all over the place now of course you know those those companies aren't going to all of a sudden like charge less for their shipping you know and anybody that sees free shipping yeah it's it's not free somebody's paying for that obviously so yeah and prices it's just you're dealing with a lot raw materials going up the cabinet is actually more expensive what people realize with the wood with the build with everything so yeah it's just when you see these prices I think people would be very surprised about what things actually cost because there is a lot of misinformation out there in terms of thinking that oh there's not much cost into these games when when there is and obviously there's always going to be an uh markup across the board because somebody's got to make money to stay in business and pay employees that's just the way it is for any industry in general so it's a good point it's just something we're seeing I thought it was worth addressing um the only other thing I could think worth addressing looking now that you have your games on Tom all I'm seeing is your expression light kits in in Led Zeppelin and rush and you have the the Ninja mod light kick in the speakers so speakers look sick and you're Star Trek in the background with the lasers this is looks nice doesn't it it looks real good I'm jealous that he has the rush expression lights now you and everyone else super jealous of that yeah how's it feel Tom it feels good well we can wrap it up we could uh yeah that was the best all right Tom do you have any other thoughts on that I mean do you feel the industry or is this something you're seeing or I don't know overall thoughts on where you're at in the hobby like and are you waiting on stuff I mean what do you think I'd like to see some new stuff come out it seems like it's just been a long time yeah well it's it's unfortunate just the the energy behind Bond it just drops so quickly and and then the 60th took so long to get it to even be revealed that and now that's happened but no stream we're just waiting I think we've just it feels like we've been in a weird holding pattern for like two months and we're waiting to see and but I think we're gonna see a lot I think there's going to be a lot of times dark times but like even me from a selfish standpoint like I'm pretty sure I'm gonna be streaming spook uh Scooby-Doo relatively soon I'm going to be streaming Bond 60th relatively soon and that that's February March there's going to be another Stern game coming out soon like there's a lot coming gtf can't whenever that shows up I'm right you know I don't know there's a lot coming that I think should be really really fun but all right well let's go ahead and wrap it up plug it up Travis plug away what do you got ah you guys can find me on this YouTube channel and this uh audio podcast the triple drain pinball podcast and you can also uh find me creating my own show that I'm going to call Joel and not his friends I'm so sorry yeah um but yes thank you for being here thank you for wearing that shirt that shirt looks great on you thank you I love it I'm gonna wear it probably at probably at District 82 during the tournament you should as well you should uh speaking of which Tom yeah plug away uh find me at Fox Cities pinball perfect with all the social all the everything do you have any tournaments or anything crazy coming up sign upset people yeah we got a we got a big uh tournament uh this coming weekend uh the winner 3x it's a big deal for a Whopper farm so okay so rest up that's this weekend so tomorrow yeah you ready to I'm sorry well I was thinking when this would actually drop oh way to go Joel it's okay they get ahead I'm living in the moment he's actually getting real I don't blame him for not voting for us now Tom it makes so much sense now oh man well thank you Tom for pointing that out appreciate it and uh yeah I'm Joel I I do um well obviously this podcast but then yes every Wednesday 10 to midnight Eastern Standard Time the flipping out pinball stream on YouTube uh we'll do a flipping out with friends this week sorry Travis you won't be there and um and then we'll be sharing I just alternate every other week so check out those videos like subscribe all the things um and yeah if you're enjoying the video here you know like subscribe all the things and uh yeah I think that's it so um Tom like always you get the last words mystery castle in disc 2024.

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 56fc87b0-2c5b-4ee2-8b13-3a1b9665e0f8*