# Ep 66: Commentators

**Source:** Final Round Pinball Podcast  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2023-02-16  
**Duration:** 105m 53s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://www.finalroundpinball.com/final-round-pinball-podcast-ep-66-commentators/

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## Analysis

Final Round Podcast episode 66 focuses on commentary and production quality at the INDISC tournament, featuring discussion of the record-breaking 600,000+ viewership stream, standout commentators like Andre Masenkov and Dave Stewart, and broader commentary on tournament formats. The hosts debate modern game length in competitions, Keith Elwin's tournament participation and design philosophy, and the importance of game diversity in tournament selection.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] INDISC stream reached over 600,000 views and featured esports-level production quality — _Jeff Teolis directly states this achievement and praises the production quality_
- [HIGH] Andre Masenkov was an outstanding commentator with excellent projection, enunciation, and game knowledge — _Martin Robbins provides detailed analysis of Masenkov's performance_
- [HIGH] Dave Stewart from the Northwest excelled as a commentator with extensive pinball knowledge and no need for direction — _Jeff Teolis directly praised Stewart's performance and background_
- [HIGH] Modern-game-only tournaments (Sternaments) are problematic because games take too long (some lasting until 4 AM) — _Martin Robbins extensively criticizes tournament format, citing specific example of Illinois IFPA championship ending at 4 AM_
- [MEDIUM] IFPA founder Roger Sharp agrees that tournaments should use timed formats (5 minutes per player) rather than full game play — _Martin Robbins references conversation with 'a person this week who may or may not have been the founder of the IFPA' and later reveals it was Roger Sharp_
- [HIGH] Escher Lefkoff won the INDISC Championship on Flash Gordon with a dramatic final ball requiring a million points — _Both hosts describe the specific moment and outcome_
- [HIGH] Kaley George won the High Stakes competition ($15,000) using classic/solid state machines, not modern games — _Jeff Teolis states this directly and notes George gave a speech about importance of older games_
- [MEDIUM] Keith Elwin was very engaged at INDISC and appeared to care more than at some other tournaments — _Martin Robbins observes Keith's demeanor and effort level at the tournament_

### Notable Quotes

> "That, that right there is a sign that you've now made pinball accessible to other gamers. That, it's, that just absolutely has to be acknowledged that he has fucking cracked the code."
> — **Martin Robbins**, mid-episode
> _Describes the significance of Karl's INDISC production achieving mainstream appeal and esports-level quality_

> "I despise with all my might tournaments that are all modern games... it's not that I'm afraid of the games or I'm not good at the games, it's how long they play."
> — **Martin Robbins**, mid-to-late episode
> _Core criticism of Sternament format, emphasizing tournament quality over game modernity_

> "If you're good at Godzilla, you'll also be good at Rush. You'll also be good at James Bond... Back in those old games, if you're good on firepower, that doesn't mean you're good on Centaur."
> — **Jeff Teolis**, mid-episode
> _Key observation about skill transferability across modern vs. classic game designs_

> "This is why I say INDISC is the best tournament in the world. And now that Pinburgh's gone, more people can agree with me."
> — **Martin Robbins**, late episode
> _Strong endorsement of INDISC's tournament format and implicit commentary on Pinburgh's status_

> "He just, he's, there was zero direction needed for him because he knew... the knowledge was off the charts."
> — **Jeff Teolis**, mid-episode
> _Praise for Dave Stewart's commentary expertise and minimal need for guidance_

> "You can't have these games lasting 40 minutes or longer... 4am is horseshit crazy and stupid and terrible and a tournament kill, it's dumb."
> — **Martin Robbins**, mid-to-late episode
> _Emphatic criticism of modern game lengths in tournament settings_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| INDISC Tournament | event | Major pinball tournament with record-breaking 600,000+ viewer stream, praised for diverse game selection and esports-level production |
| Karl Schofield | person | Tournament organizer/producer credited with INDISC's success, stream production quality, and securing front-page Twitch placement |
| Keith Elwin | person | Pinball designer and player discussed regarding tournament participation, design philosophy, and engagement level at INDISC |
| Andre Masenkov | person | INDISC commentator praised for excellent projection, knowledge, and energy; noted as needing more confidence |
| Dave Stewart | person | Northwest pinball community figure, event organizer, Papa/Pinburgh founder, praised as outstanding commentator with extensive knowledge |
| Escher Lefkoff | person | INDISC Championship winner on Flash Gordon; known for skilled play and strategic knowledge; helped secure Twitch front-page placement |
| Kaley George | person | INDISC High Stakes champion ($15,000 prize) who played classic/solid state machines and gave speech on importance of older games |
| Roger Sharp | person | IFPA founder referenced as agreeing with Martin's criticism of modern-game-only tournament formats |
| Raymond Davidson | person | Won Illinois IFPA State/Provincial Championship; competed in 7-game match against Andy Bagwell that ended at 4 AM |
| Jeff Teolis | person | Final Round Podcast co-host, commentator at INDISC, involved in commentator selection |
| Martin Robbins | person | Final Round Podcast co-host, critical analyst of tournament formats and game design philosophy |
| Pinburgh | event | Formerly major pinball tournament, now discontinued; Martin notes INDISC is superior alternative |
| Final Round Pinball Podcast | organization | Long-running pinball podcast hosted by Jeff Teolis and Martin Robbins |
| Godzilla (pinball) | game | Recent Stern game discussed regarding rule depth and skill transferability; subject of earlier podcast episode defending/criticizing game balance |
| Flash Gordon (pinball) | game | Classic solid-state game used for INDISC Championship final, won by Escher Lefkoff |
| Simpsons Pinball Party | game | Modern game used in Illinois IFPA Championship final, resulted in 1.5-hour tie-breaker lasting until 4 AM |
| Escher Lefkoff | person | Championship winner; helped with Twitch promotion |
| Jim Balsito | person | Referenced in connection with INDISC tournament organization and diversity of game selection |
| Andy Bagwell | person | Competitor in Illinois IFPA Championship final against Raymond Davidson |
| Steve Bowden | person | INDISC commentator, mentioned as part of live finals booth commentary team |
| Zach McCarthy | person | INDISC commentator for live finals |
| Leslie Rockman | person | INDISC commentator for semifinals of classics |
| Josh Sharp | person | Alternate commentator for INDISC semifinals; also competing player |
| IFPA | organization | International Flipper Pinball Association; criticized for modern-game-heavy tournament formats and marathon play times |

### Topics

- **Primary:** INDISC Tournament Success and Production Quality, Commentator Performance and Selection, Tournament Format: Classic vs. Modern Games, Game Length and Tournament Fatigue
- **Secondary:** Keith Elwin's Tournament Participation and Design, Skill Transferability Between Game Types, Stream Viewership and Mainstream Appeal
- **Mentioned:** IFPA Championship Format and Structure

### Sentiment

**Neutral** (0)

### Signals

- **[event_signal]** INDISC stream achieved 600,000+ views, esports-level production quality, and multiple Twitch front-page placements (confidence: high) — Jeff Teolis: 'Over 600,000 currently... front page on Twitch several times'
- **[content_signal]** INDISC featured high-quality, diverse commentary team with standout performers like Andre Masenkov and Dave Stewart; deliberate strategy to target newcomers while maintaining expert analysis (confidence: high) — Extensive discussion of commentator selection, performance, and strategic approach to audience education
- **[competitive_signal]** Growing tension between modern-game-heavy Sternaments (causing 4+ AM tournament finishes) and classic-game-balanced events like INDISC; IFPA founder Roger Sharp reportedly agrees with format reform advocacy (confidence: high) — Martin Robbins extensively criticizes marathon tournaments; references conversation with IFPA founder agreeing with timed-format proposal
- **[design_innovation]** Proposal for 5-minute timed format for modern games instead of full play, modeled on Heads Up Challenge approach, to reduce tournament duration while maintaining excitement (confidence: medium) — Martin Robbins: 'show us what you can do in five minutes... you wouldn't have tournaments that go to 4am'
- **[personnel_signal]** Andre Masenkov identified as surprising standout commentator with projection, enunciation, and game knowledge; encouraged to pursue more commentating work (confidence: high) — Martin Robbins detailed praise; Jeff Teolis agreement on performance quality
- **[personnel_signal]** Dave Stewart recognized as Northwest community pillar with extensive event-running background; praised for knowledgeable commentary and community organizing (Papa, Pinburgh) (confidence: high) — Jeff Teolis: 'he's done a lot that you may or may not know of... he's asking questions... he's making it flow'
- **[community_signal]** Community responded positively to commentator approach of explaining rules/basics to newcomers rather than technical jargon; strategy of rotating diverse commentators well-received (confidence: high) — Jeff Teolis notes commentators were told to explain at 'lowest common denominator' level; audience of 13,000+ first-time viewers
- **[venue_signal]** INDISC moved to larger venue; capacity and game selection both increased year-over-year (confidence: high) — Martin Robbins: 'When I walked in I was like, oh this is a different room. And wow, it's way bigger.'
- **[gameplay_signal]** Modern Stern games show high skill transferability (Godzilla, Rush, James Bond players often excel across titles), while classic 80s games (Firepower, Centaur, Quicksilver) require game-specific familiarity (confidence: medium) — Jeff Teolis analysis of modern vs. classic skill requirements
- **[sentiment_shift]** Growing community sentiment favoring game-diverse, classic-inclusive tournaments (like INDISC) over modern-only formats; perception that Pinburgh's discontinuation shifts preference toward INDISC (confidence: medium) — Martin Robbins: 'This is why I say INDISC is the best tournament in the world. And now that Pinburgh's gone, more people can agree with me.'
- **[competitive_signal]** Illinois IFPA Championship final (Simpsons Pinball Party) lasted 1.5 hours and ended at 4 AM, highlighting modern game length problem; Raymond Davidson won championship after extended competition (confidence: high) — Martin Robbins: 'the tournament got over at 4 AM... it's since been posted on Rayday's Twitch channel. He played for an hour and a half'
- **[industry_signal]** IFPA founder Roger Sharp privately agrees with criticism of modern-game-only tournament formats and supports timed-play format reform (confidence: medium) — Martin Robbins reference to 'a person this week who may or may not have been the founder of the IFPA' later revealed as Roger Sharp

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## Transcript

 The Pinball Network is online. Launching final round pinball podcast. It's player versus player and player versus machine. Welcome to the final round. Another show, another no show for awards. I'm Geoff Teolas. I'm Martin Robbins and it is certainly a year of dicks. Okay, so you're referring to the posts on our Facebook page, when they listed the nominees for the Academy Awards. Your favorite movie of the year got a lot of them 11, in Everything, Everywhere, Once or Whatever It's Called. Yup Tomboy Finger drauf. My Year of Dicks was nominated for Best Short Feature or something like that. Bravo, I mean, if there's an award for title you win. No, no, no. Oh my god. There was another movie. There was another movie. Cockfest? No! Academy Awards. Oh, it was, it was, was it animation or was it short film? Who knows? Who cares? I do because, because there was another, there was another movie, which was actually an Australian And now, the best-pitched, best-directed, lead actor, spotting actor, let's go search for Dicks. Okay. Look at that. It popped up. It's a bookmark. It just happens to be a folder on my desktop. This other short, animated short film is called An Ostrich Told Me the World is Fake and I Think I Believe It. Okay. You like that title. I just think that is just stupid. And apparently it was just some kid's kind of like school assignment that he made this film. Something like that. So there you go. Speaking of kids and school assignments. We're way off. We might get to pinball. You could fast forward. We could still be talking about this shit. So don't even try. Just stick with us. People know this show. That's why we don't get any awards, Jeff. None. Don't even get top three. Nothing. And we're even in TPN where apparently that was the filter. Had to be a TPN podcast. Speaking of films and kids, my kids are over this weekend and I said you're about to watch a classic. It might be one of the funniest movies ever. It's 25, 26 years old, came out in 1997. What movie did we watch? In 97? Demolition Man. No. I'll just reveal it. Boogie Nights. Okay. You've not seen Boogie Nights? With Dirk Diggler. Yes, Dirk Diggler. Yeah, it's a fantastic film. Spectacular. Yeah, really good. Hilarious. VINCENT IYANGEL,不对 Sabrina It doesn't matter what we say. People don't care enough. Although actually, you know what, that's not true. Because, let's talk about the last couple of weeks if you don't mind. I definitely want to talk about the last two weeks, because you've had a good one. I've had... I've had a phenomenal last two weeks. I had my first holiday in probably, I would say maybe three or four years? Yup. Vacation for those people. Just so they know there's a difference between holiday and vacation. So I went to Tasmania and took my car across and I've got a nice little sporty car. You've been in it. It goes. It's all right. So if you remember, I took you around the mountains at breakneck speed and there was this one bit of road and it was 20 kilometers and I don't know how many miles that is, but it's not that long, but it was fantastic. In Tasmania, you've got that, probably even better, but these stretches of road are 100 May быть compra.lastpasspasspasspasspasspasspasspasspass pops. Last time I came up with the pinball but it's too fast. And I just, I just went. The best night, just talking pinball, laughing, getting drunk on whatever alcohol was available, and then I came back. But that's not the best part of the last couple of weeks. The best part of this, and this is the segue based on what we were saying before, the last couple of weeks, I think for me, has probably been the biggest reaction I think I personally have had to a podcast that we've done. Oh. You know why? No. I assume because of Keith? Yes, Godzilla. Two things. Godzilla and Keith. The general consensus is that you're wrong and that Keith should just continue to do what he does and anything else may... I think that the consensus was anything else somehow will mess with the alignment of the universe and we won't get great games if anything else happens. You know what I mean? It's like an alternate universe where Keith is now a contractor, all of a sudden the games aren't good anymore. Everyone's like, why would you want change when And what he's doing right now is amazing. Just keep doing what you do. That was the summary of that. The other one was, and I'll let you have a comment probably in the next five, ten minutes if I can hang out that long. And the other one was obviously talking about Godzilla. And the general consensus was, oh my God, you are right. Doesn't mean that people don't enjoy Godzilla less. It's just that they all realize now that I was correct in that the game just over rewards. There you go. So many messages. Like I, I, there was this one day where I was at work and my messages just kept blowing up from all these people, people I hadn't spoken to in years, everyone just chiming in on this topic. It's called fodder for a podcast. That's the idea of bringing things up, getting people to talk and to listen. I thought it was good. And by the way, I was with Keith last week after we aired the show and he goes, so I should be doing my own company. Should I? The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. I told you it was not free. I can't, how many times do I have to say that there's a price attached to this? James Bond's 60th anniversary. Bring it over, you might get a couple. Loosen up. The ticket alone is expensive. You gotta give a little too, all right? He's foot in the big bill. He told me he's very happy and that's all that matters. I heard other information too that backed up what I was saying. I was like, I'm going to keep that to myself. Sure. Sure. Okay. That's fine. So you obviously caught up with him at INDISC and I was watching him on stream going, does he know? Has he listened? But obviously we got to see him at INDISC. I got to see him watching the stream and I've got to say it was nice to see him at a tournament. Does that, like I just feel like he just hasn't been at them and I also feel like at this particular tournament he gave a shit. There's big money on the line. There's big whoppers if you care about that stuff. I don't even know if Keith cares about either of those things. He just is very loyal to INDISC. I mean, if you ever listened to when he first started playing pinball, he was playing with Jim Balcido. So there's a great relationship there. He certainly loves Karl. Look what he puts into the games. Type in KED next time you get a high score on Godzilla and you'll hear special callouts where he's acknowledging Karl. And of course Bob Matthews too. So a lot of good loyalties and friendships there and his background in California for so many years. So yes, it was nice to see him play in these things unless you're playing against him and you're in the finals with him like I might have been and he dominates. But I do agree. I would rather see him in tournaments. I mean think about this. He lives in Chicago and didn't even play in Chicago's Pinball Expo in October. Busy guy, right? John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Lyman F. Sheats Jr., orbit ramps, Automated Amusements, Python Anghelo, Joe Kaminkow, Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. If you didn't know who he was and you watched him play and you watched him drain a ball, not knowing him, you'd think, this person doesn't give a shit. He don't care. There's no tantrums, there's zero emotion. However, to the discerning eye being my eye, I felt when I was watching him, he was trying harder. For some reason, this tournament, and I don't, has he won INDISC before? Many times. There are banners with names of different tournaments and I think he was the previous high stakes winner for example. Yeah, okay, there you go. It just looked to me as a viewer that this meant a lot to him and he was fighting for it. As at other times, we know, he walked away from a tournament, well not, he conceded a round remember, he just went, whatever. This, there was the fight and that was great to watch. I'man Demanyian, No, I don't know. I don't know. It was good. Can we just talk about something for a second? Because I know, spoiler alert, we are recording as the pinball awards are going on. No real reason for us to watch it, podcast and or company I work for. But... Did you get snubbed again too? I mean... Oh, no, no, no, no. We actually got mentioned quite a lot. Okay. As we sort of said, we weren't going to get, we weren't going to win anything. I wasn't expecting to even get top three in anything, even though I think there was four games that were not. I'll come back to innovation in a second. But the streamer of the year, spoiler alert, if you don't want to know, people don't listen, but I don't even know. Oh, okay. Well, I hear pinball one. There you go. Good. Ruined it for you. Can I just want to say, no one comes close. Sorry. I know that was kind of like what you said last week when you were talking about design and you were like, wow, Keith Elwin, no one comes close. I'm like, I'm not saying everybody else is crap. Yeah, you picked work. I remember that. What I'm saying is, if you watched INDISC and you saw the production on that, it was next level. It is, without a doubt, the closest thing we have got to an esports level of production. It was that good. It wasn't just the commentators. I know that you had a hand in selecting the commentators and they were good. You can never know what the dynamics are going to be when you bring three different people together over all the different shifts, but it wasn't just that you had good commentators. You had good production. You had good cameras. You had good frames. You had good editing. You had good panning over to you for interviews, for sponsors, all that kind of stuff. It was just at this professional level that I've been hoping that pinball would get to. And how many views did it get? Over 600,000 currently. 600,000. Not 100 like most streams on a good stream or maybe a few thousand if it's a pinball machine reveal. In fact, it was front page on Twitch several times. That's part of the partnership that Karl has and some connections. Believe it or not, actually, Escher Lefkoff was a big part of getting that shown. I think he's got some buddies that he was talking to. I don't know the background, but basically, Karl thanked Escher for helping get that kind of front page status and awareness, really. I think the person that makes that decision is now a massive pinhead. Does that mean more? That helps, I hope so. Well, he's a pinhead in the sense like, wow, I, you know, I mean, fuck, I can watch Fortnite a million times or I can watch people lick microphones in that ASMR bullshit or hot tubs or DJs pressing a button and showing their wonderful skills or something that's unique and always different in pinball. Yeah, okay, cool. That's great. You can, all these people can have the best intentions and great, well done, you're a I'm your pinhead. Love you. Thank you. But when you've got... No blow job there. No. When you've got... I don't know. There was like 50,000, 60,000 people. I think it was something like that that I saw concurrent, right? That were watching. I don't know. I think it was something like that. It was a lot of people. 15,000 at one point. Okay. If that's normally going to be 2,000, you've got an extra 13,000 people, that's fine for them to click on the button when it's on the front page. But for them to stay That, that right there is a sign that you've now made pinball accessible to other gamers. That, it's, that just absolutely has to be acknowledged that he has fucking cracked the code. That's what he did. Yeah, and you can see it in the comments too. So I know the one time I was in the booth, um, live, and a lot of the stuff you saw was pre-recorded, except after the awards were given, or sorry, after the final fours of All the events we would do interviews but but all the other stuff was pre-recorded until the finals of the open Steve Bowden, Zach McCarthy, myself that was live and we knew the audience was big and when we knew it was big we knew the majority probably 14 or 13,000 of those 15,000 were first-time yep competition watchers but more so first time what is this pinball all about yes we switched on a dime and had to speak to This isn't insulting to say this, but we were speaking to the lowest common denominator in that we had to explain things. Well, you know me, I understand a lot about pinball and I've obviously streamed and I've done commentating before. I felt your commentating for the final was exactly what it needed to be. Even for me, like what you've got to remember is there's, let's say there's 2000 normal pinheads watching that, right? Yep. How many of those 2000 that are watching really know what a shats is? Really know if you said Ali Pass what that is? Not many. So I think the fact that you went down to lowest common denominator is where you should be anyway. It's okay to be at that level and assume that people don't know because the reason I'm saying Read this briefing at www.nisspanazione.com John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Lyman F. Sheats Jr., orbit ramps, Automated Amusements, Python Anghelo, Joe Kaminkow, Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. We can talk with each other. If we specifically, the only time we said, if you specifically ask the chat a question, then of course you acknowledge it. Hey, thanks. There's Marty with the answer, blah, blah, blah. Because also too, what's it going to sound like on the video on demand afterwards when you're not actually seeing the chat and you're just throwing things out there? It would have been too distracting so we consciously did not talk to the chat, especially during play. In between, no problem. We could kind of do that. We were hopefully answering those questions without the chat having to ask them, but that was a good reminder, okay, every time we come back after a game, kind of say what we're doing, kind of, you know, because sometimes these games are lasting 40 minutes or longer, so you kind of want to, there's always new people coming in and out, and again, for the 10 seconds, you repeat yourself by explaining what's going on, you're now involving the people that just got there. Yep. And look, as I said, it was a challenge for you guys, I know, putting all these people together that some of them probably hadn't met each other for the first time, so you always had three commentators. And I liked the fact that you switched them out quite often. It was quite refreshing. And I know that you and I have had this conversation offline. I just want to bring this up because there was one person that I watched that I thought was quite a surprise. Oh, I've got one too. Just to let you know, here's a little background stuff. Karl and I, we decided before INDISC happened, as opposed to at INDISC or any other tournament where you're like, hey, do you want to stream? Do you want to stream? Fuck that. I said, Karl, we have to do it before the tournament starts because it's mad scrambling. Now, we have to keep in mind that these people might actually not be available to commentate. Like, in fact, for the semifinals of the classics too, it was supposed to be Leslie Rockman who was there and did a great job. It was supposed to be her, myself, and Josh Sharp in the booth. We thought that'd be kind of funny to put Josh and I in there. We were both still playing, so we also had lists of alternates. So that was all done in advance. And like you said, we didn't know the chemistry of some of these people, but we kind of all gave them guidelines, you know, make sure one person's kind of... Oh, first of all, if you're talking for 30 seconds, you've talked too long. It's somebody else's turn. That was rule number one. Don't interrupt was the other rule. And the biggest rule was have fun. So all that kind of consideration. So I have since gone back and watched and made notes of every person's strengths and if they had any weaknesses or suggestions, those have been there. So I had somebody that really surprised me how great they were. I'm curious who yours is. I have mine too. Go. Who's yours? I'm going to start with Andre Masenkov. And the reason why I say that is he had a really, oh my God, it's hard to put it down. He had a voice that just projected and he was clear enunciation, but it was full of energy and enthusiasm. But more importantly, it was filled with knowledge and it was filled with knowledge based on games and games rules, but also what was happening on the game itself. And the only thing I know, I said this to you as well, the only thing that I had, the problem I had with Andre is I felt he was looking around people thinking, well, they're better than me. And I was looking at him going, dude, you are fucking awesome. Be more confident. Get out there. You should do more of this. I thought he was so good. Former guest of Final Round, we love Andre and Karl and I both agreed when we looked at the list, well, let's see if he wants to do this. And he was more than willing to. Dar памedktor i, nicirifidu, novah pesleju, meerle, dron Lawan sp communications, p scen theft anf resultiibyescabio, nekalighescadolus testerio colossobsdu, I've heard him on chat and it was a suggestion, you know, from Karl. I'm like, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And he did a couple, he was actually an alternate and came in a couple of times, blew me away. And I don't even know if you know him or not. Dave Stewart from the Northwest. I do know Dave Stewart a lot actually. Okay. So he was outstanding. He was great, wasn't he? Well, he just, he's, there was zero direction needed for him because he knew John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, I'm a massive pet peeve of mine and the knowledge was off the charts. Now, by the way, he knows everything in pinball. This guy is a great top 100 player for years, runs a lot of the events in the Northwest. In fact, one of the real behind the scenes founders, if you will, of Papa and Pinburg and things like that, he's done a lot that you may or may not know of. So it doesn't matter. When you're listening to him in the commentating, he's asking questions. What do you do here? He knows the answer. I'm seeing the flow happening. No, he's making it flow. I know. I saw him. In fact, funny enough, the first time I met, in fact, I think the only time I've met Dave Stewart was actually at INDISC, the first INDISC I went to. Unfortunately, we had a tie break and he knocked me out of A Division into B Division of the Classics. So, thank you. I did actually hate him for a long time as a result of that. There we go. But he redeemed himself. I was listening to the commentating because it was at a stage where the game was on, so therefore, as we've talked about before, they didn't show the commentators. And I'm like, this person is fantastic. I wonder who this person is. Couldn't pick the voice. When they cut to the announcer's story, I went, oh shit, that's his voice. I didn't realize that was his voice because I'd never spoken to him even though he kicked me out. But yeah, he was great. It's amazing how you can have this shit list, if you will, for people you don't even really, really know, but just one thing will take you off and you're on the list. You're on the Marty list. Yeah, you actually don't even need to do anything to get on my list. That's what it is. I'll judge. But back to the competition. INDISC, I know how much you love that and I hope you can get there next year. The new location is great. The stream doesn't do it justice because you really can't see how massive... it was bigger than the year before. When I walked in I was like, oh this is a different room. And wow, it's way bigger. www.willywonka.com All of these are fun games. You had a bond game in there. You had all kinds of fun. You had a Legends of Valhalla. They had anything you could imagine. A good mix of old and new. There was always something to do and it was just another perfect tournament. I can't tell you how great INDISC is. www.willywonka.com And then they heard me talk and went, oh, I'm back in the room. So... Oh, so you saved them? I saved them, is what I'm saying. So in the course of the five minutes of us talking about that, they were like, I'm out. Oh, I'm back in. Correct. How does that fence feel sitting on that? Oh, hello, American voters. Mm-hmm. Oh. Let's not get political, Jeff. You did it, you fucker. But, you know what I mean? Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. So anyway, you're welcome. So that was just extra prize money for you. So one of the comments that I heard after INDISC, there were a few comments in the chat line about this It was something we heard a year ago and I want to clear it up There were people saying you know as we playing older machines it could have been Black Jack let say it could have been Flash Gordon which the championship was won on a great finish for Escher Lefkoff. He had to get a fucking million points on Flash Gordon on his last ball. I know. And luckily he got an extra ball and then got a bonus. It was just, it was one of these, it was a pinball moment. Not lucky. It was one of those unbelievable. Not lucky. The New This is Escher. He knows when he steps up. Okay, whatever the score is here's how I'm gonna get there There's and there's always a path how to get there. So he knew first thing. Okay, get the extra ball We'll go from there and then good things will happen. You know, the spinners were juiced. There's lots of ways to do it There were some safe shots. You kind of had enough time on it to know the bounces and all he does is win It's just it's crazy. But again, I'm talking about these older games and people are like, oh, what about new games? Well, there were new games in the banks and stuff www.willywonka.com Kaley George won the high stakes. It was $15,000 on the line. Three games were picked. All of them solid states or classics. He didn't play Walking Dead, which was there. He didn't play, and I'm forgetting some of the other very new modern games. I asked him in the interview, can you explain the importance of older games and newer games and why they're all important? He just won $15,000 and gave the greatest speech ever. I recommend you watch it. Why these older games are super important. Okay, for someone like me who could be fucking watching it, what's the secret? What's the secret? Yeah. Because they are no different than newer games. The same skills are required and yeah, the rules might not be as deep. I mean, Marty, the first time you played Godzilla, did you know any of the rules? No. You watched me. And what did you do? You watched me. What did you do? You played for an hour on something, didn't you? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You were watching me. www.willywonka.com Here's what I think. I think a modern game, if you're good at Godzilla, you'll also be good at Rush. You'll also be good at James Bond. I'm just trying to now go through all the recent Stern games. If you're good at one, you're good at the other. Back in those old games, if you're good on, like I'm talking 80s, if you're good on firepower, that doesn't mean you're good on Centaur. It doesn't mean that you're good on Quicksilver. I think back then, people have an affinity to a certain game, almost like it's like, oh, it brings me luck. I know I'm, I know I'm good on that particular solid state or even alphanumeric. I think the more recent games, I think the skills are so just transferable amongst all the different games. Is that making sense to you? Sure. I guess my point is, if it's 20, 30 minutes to play a classics game and just have a lot of fun, whether it be stars on five ball, we had a great time playing stars, or playing Flash Gordon as mentioned in the finals of the open, there was excitement there. There was skill. It was not a long, long game. I'm relating this to two things. One, the IFPA recently had their state and provincial championships and in Illinois, Raymond Davidson, who listens to this program, congratulations, won beating Andy Bagwell in seven games. That tournament got over at 4 AM because a lot of modern games and in fact the final was the Simpsons Pinball Party. It was tied 3-3. Andy Bagwell and Raymond Davidson. It's since been posted on, I think, Rayday's Twitch channel. He played for an hour and a half and completed the wizard mode. It's exciting to watch for sure on a VOD. It's not a lot of fun if you're in a competition and it's 4 a.m. And I despise with all my might tournaments that are all modern games. And I know that sounds shitty and snobby. But the reason, it's not that I'm afraid of the games or I'm not good at the games, it's how long they play. Unless you, you know, unfortunately bastardize them, which I, it isn't fun either. It's just, if you remember Papa a few years ago when they were around, their main bank used to always, always, always be modern games. And then they went, this is ridiculous. This is too long. They added games like Skateball, like Jungle Princess or Jungle Queen and you still have the moderns in there but you had a mix. It was because of timing. 4am is horseshit crazy and stupid and terrible and a tournament kill, it's dumb. Like it's crazy how long they are. So Sternaments as they're quote unquote called and it's not a knock on Stern because Stern is great, it means modern tournaments. When people talk about Sternaments, it's not all Sterns, it means all modern games. They just happen to mainly consist of Stern games. It's too, too fucking long. And it's not fun. And here we are talking about all this great stuff on INDISC. Can you imagine if they were all modern games? It wouldn't be as much fun. I mean, the end result would be probably the same, but the fatigue factor of, he's on his sixth multiball. Oh, look, he stacked this. As opposed to, I can understand and watch this incredible thing. Here's the problem, I guess, with Stern events. And actually even with the IFPA, I've got people that are saying promote new games, show new games to sell new games. I get all that. It makes sense. It's not what competitions are about. The problem is the way the competitions are structured. It's always about what's your best score after three balls or five balls on a classic. When everything all planets align will be, you could have a sternament, you could have all modern games, but don't play the whole game. Make it, show us what you can do in five minutes. And when five minutes is done, stop, and then the next person goes. That would be fucking so thrilling. It's like what they do in the Heads Up Challenge, with two machines of the same thing. If they can change this whole game into, show us what you can do in five minutes, yeah, you won't get to see the wizard mode and all that stuff. I'm telling you, you'd get to see these modern games, it would be exciting. You wouldn't have tournaments that go to 4am. I can hardly wait for the IFPA to embrace that. And they do for some tournaments, but they don't for Whoppers. Once that switch happens, it will be for the better. And I was talking to a person this week who may or may not have been the founder of the IFPA who completely agrees. Okay, so one person agrees with you. Yeah. Was Roger Sharp, you dickknocker? Yeah, but still, one person agreed with you. You're the person who created competitive pinball. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, how long ago? Oh, you ageist prick. Just because I'm a week older than you and I'm now older for this one week fucking span, you're going to talk... You young buck. Is that what this is all about? What I'm saying is that's one person that agrees with you. Okay? So there's two people. However, I'm a third person that agrees with you. Oh, good. You know what? I had this problem in my working career as a senior level manager. I was always faced with the situation, do I do the right thing or do I make light and make fun of the person in front of me? You know which path I always chose and it did get me into trouble sometimes. Anyway, the point is I agree. I think to myself, what unfinished business couldn't be resolved in a 20 minute game versus an hour and a half game? Like, really, just bring it down. But this is the beauty of INDISC. INDISC has always been about a diverse range of games. It's, you know, dare I say they've probably got a diversity quota, you know what I mean? You know what I mean? Where they're like, we have to have two games from each era and it's always worked. And this is why. It's just one of the elements that is why I say INDISC is the best tournament in the world. And now that Pinburgh's gone, more people can agree with me. Well, that's one person's opinion. Yeah, correct. What's your opinion, Geoff? I don't want to share it, but I... This definitely has a wide mix. They don't have EMs in the main bank. They do have EMs in the high stakes bank. So they, you know, I would say some of the older games you saw, you saw Flash Gordon, you would see Firepower, they had High Speed, they had Joker Poker set on three balls. But yeah, they also had Deadpool, they had Rush, they had Revenge from Mars. They had to, thankfully, bring back Mystery Castle. I wish it got on stream. It might have in some of the earlier rounds. But that was basically kind of a fuck you to people who said, oh, this shouldn't be in there. Uh-uh. It was immediate darling. You should have seen the lineup to get on that game. It was fun because we knew what to do. And again, it's a way to showcase what great pinball players can do. It doesn't matter the machine at all. New world. This is what I love about INDISC and I'm going to say that this is Jim Belsito's fault. It could be, you know, Karl's and everybody else that's involved in it, but I think there is this, when they come together, there's like, it's a serious tournament, this is what we're going to do, here's the machines that we're going to have, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, and then they're like, oh, there's this section here which is the shit fuckery section. So, what game can we now put in the banks to fill our quota of shit fuckery? Oh, okay, I know, barb fucking wire. Years ago. Shit fuckery. But this is what I love. Yes. I love about, you can look around and you can go, okay, what's the shit fuckery game of this year? There's always one where you go, Jim Belsito, you're fucking with me. The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Those people that were really welcoming of me when I went to INDISC for the first time and obviously those that weren't, I wish they were dead and some of them have died based on the previous podcast. Jim Belsito was just this one person that was always checking in with me to see if I was okay, knew what I was doing, having a good time. For fear for his life. Probably. He knew, he knew. He had a crystal ball, he knew in INDISC. But this is Jim Belsito. The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. So, star wars was in there. Space station, oh here's the game, Star Trek the next generation, you're thinking, there's no, how do you do that? You're going to be right orbit all day. Uh uh uh uh, the good players did different strategies, there are, you can do that if you want, takes a while. No, the great players took 8 shots, comboed 8 shots to blow the game up. How do you do that on Star Trek the next generation? How do you do it Marty? I fucking know. Well, I'll tell you. Oh, by the way, another game you put in there was Street Fighter II. Okay, there's the shit fuckery game right there. There's another one. Apparently, Super Mario Brothers wasn't available. Wait till next year. So, and I had this conversation because we've actually just had somebody that's joined us at work and he's got a Teed Off. Yep. And I said, do you know what? If you're going to have a Gottlieb Premier, you've got one of three, maybe four decent I think TDOF is actually quite a good game. Sure. It's just obviously the flippers are shit. Cubal Wizard is another one. People don't like that. I don't know. Riding ramp. Yeah. Sure need that ramp now. Wow, did you do Colos? That's fucking good. That was my exit. Yeah. Jesus. I know, right? So. Okay. I agree. The shit fuckery of saying Star Trek Next Generation. By the way, here's how you played the game properly. And this is how the high scores happened. Ignore the multiball. What? In a modern game? Yup. Pick warp factor four, which then you rip the spinner, which was extremely juiced. Then when it comes around to the upper flipper, hit the ramp shot. It comes back down the flipper, hit the spinner again, ramp shot. Do that four times, each spinner, upper flipper shot, repeat four times, four billion. There you go. The spinner was worth so much. It was great. On- Dunatics Backlease Steve, big fan and I've got some of your games and I love them and he said, what game do you have? And he said, I've got Star Trek Next Generation and Steve said, without missing a beat, and it still works? Yeah, it's a case of too complicated. You overstretched yourself guys. I mean it is what it is. It's a fantastic game. I don't love it because of the outlines but it's a fantastic game. You also mentioned... Are you eating? Yeah, I'm eating macadamias. What a dick. Yep. Well, I'm going to go get some fucking food if you're going to eat too. No. Sorry, Lister. Marty's hungry. How long have I had to wait for you? You fucking prick. You've reloaded your computer four times because you've crashed because you had that folder of open dicks on earlier. You mixed that around. I crashed four times, rebooted my machine once. So... Close the dicks folder. No. No, all I wanted to talk about was you mentioned Bad Girls, which is just an interesting Gottlieb game. I think it's sort of like a mirrored 8 ball deluxe. Do we need to talk about the double zero? Yes, the double zero on Bad Girls, Travis Muri. Oh, what'd you think? Okay, so I want to explain this scenario and then I want you to tell the listeners what actually happened. Okay, the first thing I'm gonna talk to everybody because it's probably some people that don't know about what's called Playfield Validation Not even enough. All of these things, as I said, allow you to have one or two switch hits and still not considered a ball in play. Case in point, bad girls, over to you, Geoff. Sorry, what? Oh, if you're going to eat, fuck I'm going to eat. I grabbed a bag of chips. Yeah, you know, did you have to wait an hour for me to arrive? And therefore miss lunch completely? Chief CU returns to the base to give a final thank you to five other known in the history and해석 dies Pikachu, and Jeff Cur marsh for sausage I'm not a Craig Bobby, give me the list of winners so I can acknowledge them. No, no, okay. Anyway, okay, so Travis Murray was playing, he's in a player group of four, and he's trying to get the ball on flippers, so the way Bad Girls works, really, it's the opposite playfield of 8 Ball Deluxe. There's a lot of similarities there. The drops are on the left side, you have an upper flipper on the right versus the left of 8 Ball Deluxe, so he's plunging it and trying to catch it on the flipper. I forgot what shot he was trying to go for. I can't remember if he was trying to hit the eight or not. Whatever he was trying to do, it didn't get on the flipper and it went in the center drain, if you will. So it was like, okay, ball came back. The first two times, it came back. Not the third time, thus the double zero. Because when you're playing and when you're qualifying as a single player, you can do it all day. You can do it 100 times if you want. It's not a bug. The software programming thing in multiplayer as this was for the first time him playing it because you qualify as a single player. It lets you do it once. It lets you do it twice. Ah ah ah ah as Nedry would say. No, not a third time. And he, oh my god, he drained. The look on his face was... and it was just, it was unfortunate that in order for that scenario to happen, Somebody needed to short plunge three times for that to happen, and he just happened to be the first person that did it, and it was a real what-the-fuck moment. Not one person knew that. No, that's right. But we all know now. Absolutely. I'm going to confess something. Okay. I had a wonderful time at INDISC. I was happy to make the playoffs in Classics in both the first and the second. Great opportunities. This is Chris You know that. I'm proud of it. Yeah, tattooed. But even then, I was like, I'm not going to message you and be that person that's like, oh man, what happened? It's like, you know that you were 41st. You don't need another person going, what happened? I just didn't want to be that much of an asshole. Well, a lot of people did because they're not assholes. They're just, you know, if I poke fun, they can poke fun too. If you give it, you got to be able to take it. So I got a lot of messages, oh, that sucks, or bubble boy and stuff and like that. And my reaction to everyone... Bubble butt. Bubble butt that too. My reaction to them and to you is I don't care if I was a hundredth. I just made top three in the classics. I yeah, whatever happens was gravy. Am I gonna give up a third place so that I can get a few more games in in the main? It would be nice, but that's the sacrifice you make when you do it. So I would have done the same thing. I'm happy as shit. Is it coincidental? Hey, if I got in great, if I didn't I understand why I didn't. So I didn't play in the Classics Target Matchplay on Thursday at all. And that's maybe my bread and butter. I chose not to play it because you are in that Classics Target Matchplay all day. So I said, I'm not going to play in that. That will be the day I try to qualify for the Open because Friday, I'm going to be in Classics 1. Saturday I'm going to be in Classics 2. I'm going to have time to qualify. And so whatever I do on Thursday, great. So that's kind of what happened. But what I haven't said to anybody, and no one knows this, but I am an honest guy and I'll tell you what happened. When I play these card formats, the card format is you have to play five different games and your scores, if you play a game like Rush, your score is compared to everyone else who plays Rush. So if you're the number one scorer, you would get 200 points and, you know, down to zero. The best five total scores out of a maximum of a thousand is what you would get on your card. So, my last game I actually saved for Rush. How I play these card formats is I'm going to play the hardest game I think in my first or second ticket. And I'm going to save the game I feel the most comfortable with for my last game. And I felt comfortable on Rush. I have a Rush. I kind of knew the shots. I knew it was difficult, but still, I knew what to do to get a decent average score. Again, it's all about consistency. You don't want to have one shitty score. You don't even have to blow up scores. You just have to have five decent scores. I think Zach Sharp qualified for playoffs and his best score was maybe 35th on a machine. Doesn't matter. They were all around that age and you get in. So, saved rush for the end. I've got 65 million. I know that this ticket's going to be pretty good. And at the time it was going to put me in about 25th. Great, awesome, so everything else is gravyball three. Remember our story of Travis Murray? Yep. So there was no ball save on. So I kind of soft plunged to try to get to the upper flipper so that I could take a side shot and get a ball save. If you get either the scoop or the upper ramp, you get a three, five second ball save and a few million. That's what I'm going to try to do. I did the soft plunge. I bricked my shot, but I didn't hit any switches. I must have hit a post and it came back down to the bottom right flipper. I caught it. I'm like, hmm, the ball safe's still lit, those two side shots. I'm going to let the flipper drain and take another pot shot on it. And I did. I dropped the flipper. End of ball. I'm an idiot. By the way, the three million I would have got for making the skill shot or any points would have put me in playoffs. Oh, fuck me dead. But again, you don't know that. If that happened Thursday, you don't know that. And, you know, I was like, okay, don't, flip away. Oh, fuck. Oh, bugger. Yeah. That's how I got out of it. But, oh well. Still happy. That's what happened. Yeah. No, exactly. But don't forget, you go to, I guess this is what I was sort of saying last episode is don't go in there thinking if I win, I'm having a happy time. If I lose, I'm having a bad time. You go there to have fun. You have different ways of having fun because I know for you it's also catching up with a lot of people. www.indisc.com.au I saw a lot of people there. We saw Keith Elwin. We talked about that. He had a good laugh. And we were talking about Bond 60th, which I saw again. Congratulations to Project Pinball and thanks to everyone who supports that fine charity and helps put pinball machines in children's hospitals all around America. It's a great thing what Daniel Spoler and the team does there, Sierra as well. They had another draw where they sold out a Bond 60th LE. And these were $200 tickets. I think normally the ticket's about $100 or $60 or it depends on the premium or pro. Yeah, they used to be $50. Yeah, they've gone up just as Stern prices go up, right? Yeah, of course. Yeah, so they're now, what, $500? Think of it. So they're paying for one machine, but they're actually paying for two machines. So your money, you know, one they give away, one they put in the hospital. That's how it works. So I think these tickets were $200. Boom, sold out just like the first one did. What does that tell you about Bond LE? Marty? What it tells you is that people want the game. That is, they want to spend $30,000 for it. In Australia, dollars, that is. Yeah, about $20,000 here in North America, or maybe $15,000. I don't know what it is, $25,000 probably in Canada, but you're right, a lot of money. People want the game, they don't want to spend that kind of money. What else does it tell you, Marty? I don't know. That charity is doing well? Yeah that a fact Go deeper What else does it tell you about Bond 60th LE As Project Pinball did its second draw of this exclusive 500 to be sold games Yeah they could do 20 more draws and still sell out immediately Like, what it's basically saying is there is more demand than there is the actual games. More demand than supply. So therefore the price can be up. You're wrong. Marty, you're wrong. And I'll tell you why you're wrong. Fine. There is more demand than supply? No, it's the other way around. They were able to get another machine because they're not sold out. Oh really? Well, how did they get another machine, Marty? How can you call? Call some distributors and ask if you can get one. I have. I've called a few. Yeah, what do you want? They're not sold out. They will be. Don't get me wrong, they will be. But they're not. They're available. Call a distributor. You might be able to find one. So what does that mean, Marty? Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. Nah, not even remotely. Fuck you, it's getting there dude, it's getting there. No, yeah, no that's bullshit. It's getting there. That's bullshit, okay, did the limited edition, not this special 60th anniversary, did the LE, the George Gomez one, did that sell out? I don't know. Yeah, it did. The answer is yes, you know it did. I don't know it. Well it's true, I'm telling you it did. You remember that's the one in Australia where the prices for the LE went up $5,000, you know? Okay. 30%. And it sold out. So has the bubble burst. No, it hasn't. Because they sold out at, you know, 30% more, you know? So this, you can't go buy this limited edition single level game at $30,000 or, well, here it's $31,500. We can't use that as an example of whether the bubble has burst because literally a month ago the LEs of the other bond did sell out at a much higher rate anyway. So ridiculous argument. Secondhand market, more games are available and prices are coming down. No, they're not. Yes, they are. No, they're not. No, no, no. I want you to actually go and give me evidence. Yes, they are. I want you to show me all the numbers. All the numbers. Listen to the pinball show. They do market trends. They talk about it. Do you reckon the market trends are completely objective? I bet you Zach who is... Are they objective? You're hilarious. I think Zach does more research than both you and I from two standpoints. Oh, without doubt. One for... Yeah, like fuck. Whatever he thought in his head is more research. He certainly follows that from a business point of view too. I mean, this guy left his profession to become a distributor, and he has his finger on the pulse of what games are selling for. And these games that are supposed to attract the whales, Elvira, the Spawn Deli, they're not selling out. You can find these games. There's high demand for them, don't get me wrong, but I think they've hit the ceiling. So maybe the bubble hasn't burst, but we found the ceiling, I think. Oh, I agree with you. Okay. Not only did we find the ceiling, I think we pushed through the ceiling, but we've pushed through a ceiling. Oh my God. I wish I had a really good metaphor to explain this, but we fucking pushed the fucking boundaries of what people would accept. Like this, I've always, but we've talked about price rises and even with the LA that came out, I was sort of like, yeah, I understand. I get it objectively. I understand bill of materials have gone up, supply demand, COVID, blah, blah, blah. Thanks, Ian. I'm not going to push prices up. I get all of that. I still think that the 60th anniversary is a complete anomaly in that it is way over the top. It is just, okay, now you're taking the piss. And, you know, even though I still look at the machine and I go, it's fantastic, I want one, I really would want one, I would want this over the other James Bond, right? I just think this would be so much fun to play and in my collection, but not for $31,500. Like that's just fucking crazy money. So, okay, on the cornerstones, let me rephrase, the bubble has not burst. There, I retracted. It hasn't burst yet. So, one out of 5,000 guys. Just shut your mouth for a second and listen to your big mouth. These boutique games or these special games, whether it's Bond LE, whether it's Elvira, going back to Beatles, which never completed their full run of games. They did not follow through with that because the demand wasn't there because of the higher price. We look back, first of all, great game. And they could probably do it now, but maybe they lost the license. Who knows? I have, I don't know. I don't know. But they're not, those, the bubbles, they found the ceiling on those games and they went a little past it, I believe. But maybe not selling them all is still, I mean, for the bond, for sure, they're still making money on this. No woe is Stern, that's for sure. It's just funny to remember how much up in arms we were with Beatles pricing. Well, it was the bitching about, There's no ramps! There's... Yeah, it was that crap. But it was a 10... It was... Remember, it was a 10,000 US game. No, what it was was what people perceived as a dick move, set your price thing. That's what it was. And it was also to the distributors, you have to buy 10 of the regular ones to get one super gold, whatever the fuck, massive, you know... Yeah, yeah. ...palm of... Titanium edition. Whatever, yeah. Like that, that kind of... You take Mac Macca's jizz on it, yeah. Exactly. So that's what had people up in arms too. So anyway. Okay. But the reason why I bring that up is because this will not be the last time this happens. Just letting you know. What's going to happen is, and this is a, I think, still think this is a perfectly good move. They're like, well, okay, well, if you don't like it, you've still got these other James Pons that you can have. They're perfectly good machines. They are constantly experimenting with the market and seeing what they can get away with. And they did it, they did, they probably even did it before Beatles, but Beatles was the first real noticeable one. It's like, okay, you're now wanting more than top dollar and you're not giving us ramps. Then you had Elvira with her super special, oh my God, it's got her DNA in it, you know, because it has to, to have that kind of, and then this, it's the same thing. It's like they look, the, oh my God, they are doing, they are so clever. They are doing this to normalize the normal prices. That is all they're doing people. They are doing this so you can get outraged at this one game so then you can accept the fact that an LE now for any other game is now going to be $20,000 in Australia or $15,000 whatever it is. That's what they're doing. They are intentionally moving the goalpost here of what people will pay by doing this This ridiculous experiment up here, they're doing a swifty. That's all they're doing. And it's so well, they're doing it so well. Put on them. Sleight of hand. That's all it is, is a sleight of hand. We don't have this on our notes of what we wanted to talk about, but it just raises the question. So, has the bubble burst for becoming a distributor? Because everybody wanted to sell these games and stuff, but are distributors getting fucked? I mean, no one's feeling sorry for anybody. I get that, you know, when we're talking big, big dollars, but what's the attractiveness to be a distributor now? Now, I mean, and I say that because Bond LE, what did they do? They first sold whatever allotment they had without a distributor. They got theirs first. Jersey Jack does it. Spooky does it. What's the carrot to be a distributor for just selling pinball machines? Well, it depends on whether there was always a fixed dollar amount that was margin or whether it was a percentage. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Lyman F. Sheats Jr., orbit ramps, Automated Amusements, Python Anghelo, Joe Kaminkow, Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. All your local and private tbsp about this Couldnimor forgot an hour ago do but i never had alone If anyone does know, send us an email. Finalrampinball.gmail.com. Yeah, but we have to be careful what we say. For sure. It's funny you talk about INDISC and getting to talk to a lot of people and the fun of that, especially coming off the episode where he said, Keith could make a lot of money for himself by doing this. Boy, you hear a lot of shit, man. You hear a lot of shit from both sides. I don't mean how dare you say that. It's like, did you know this? Did you know this? And times are changing. There used to only be a few distributors and then it kind of exploded and distributors were kind of, I don't know, in name only really. You know, it was a chance to get these LEs for their buddies and, you know, were they selling them to the masses or was it always just a way to channel to get their games? There were a few of those in the States. There were quite a few of those. And what kind of territories are there? Well, are there any territories? How many times do you hear a distributor say, we can ship anywhere in America or... Really, I guess so. Interesting times. They are indeed. I'm talking about distributors. I'm certainly not talking about being a pinball company. I think it's great to be a pinball company. You happen to be at a pinball company. And I did notice that Haggis was given a little whoops or a little correction. Can I get, you and I have not talked about this. You've been in Tasmania. This is the first time we've talked. When we received an email that said, oh boy, we basically fucked up in the Twippy nominations after we said, hey, that is horseshit that Haggis wasn't included. I wasn't touching that. That's for you to respond. John Packer Brisle, Rogers Principal Program Manager Brokers Queens, In Phew Today We Sheiolos, Tim Pore котith Fears, Mark 새로운, RobbieHis Daniel Janot, Audience Problems, The ANGEL!!! I didn't even see Они Swan But what is your action to their solution? I say with a hard Mark You well Okay, first of all. What happened? I have just forgot us. I thought we were in last year's awards andible. And... we did not crowder right now? tease John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Lyman F. Sheats Jr., orbit ramps, Automated Amusements, Python Anghelo, Joe Kaminkow, Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. I just didn't think we existed. You know what I mean? Yep. So I knew that he would be mortified that that's what happened and he was. Really apologetic, like just, like the response was... And the TWP committee, like come on guys, it's not just one person. It's not just one person, it's a number of people. Josh Sharp. But the response really was, I was really satisfied with the response. I wasn't expecting a response, didn't want a response. Well I just wanted to shitster, right? That was the point of the last podcast was, this is funny, let's make light of it and let's just stir some trouble. There's no way to fix it, but at least the apology was there and the fix was like, why even bother? Oh, we'll put it on the ballot for the last four days and if you want to recast your ballot and include Haggis, you can go do that. Who's going to fucking do that? Nobody. Like just gonna see who's studying toughness management in the design machine. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Lyman F. Sheats Jr., orbit ramps, Automated Amusements, Python Anghelo, Joe Kaminkow, Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. We got nominated in like top three and a couple of things, but we were never going to win anything really. You know, I mean, would I again for the pinball awards, would I love, would I have loved the rules, my rules for Fathom Revisited to be in the top three? Absolutely. Out of four machines, five machines, whatever it is. But not enough people would have played it to know which we can get into that dilemma about awards that say, well, Film. Film awards is a prime example. The Academy and the Foreign Press for the Golden Globes, they have to have watched every movie that's nominated. Bullshit. No, they do not. That's the whole joke of certainly the Hollywood Foreign Press and the Academy. There's no way. I fucking know Academy members that vote that they haven't seen everything. No, they haven't. But of the films that have been nominated, they have to watch them. No, they do not. They have to after they've been nominated to then pick a winner. No, they do not. They can say... Is it like Clockwork Orange and they're fucking peeling their eyes back and force them to watch this and they're putting water drips to make sure they stay awake? No, but what they actually do, but they are obliged to do it. They have a responsibility to do it. Yes, correct. They do have to. But that's... They are obliged to do it. Like, it's part of the rules that says they have to... Whether they do it or not, it's up to them. But what I'm saying is it's much harder for these awards. Do you think every person that voted in the pinball awards and the trippies, do you think every person that voted has played, well not just fathom revisited, but has played with our Yankovic? Nope. And no, no, not at all. And it doesn't matter what award show. Absolutely not. And I did kind of notice the dig Twip put on their website too. It was talking about their awards, you know, how important their awards are. It was a shot at the pinball award saying that it's not just a few media people voting. That was a bit of a dig. So you're saying that the thousands of emails, not all of them verified, which may include a few media, is way more important than people that are supposed to be in the know, like you say, a smaller media amount. I don't know. I just, like, fuck. There's no winners there, guys. And pissing on each other? Like, fuck. Yeah, okay, I don't know, I somehow just want to move on from this, but I want to finalize by trying to summarize your feelings and my feelings on this, right? We are not angry and we're not hurt that these things exist and we aren't into them. We just recognize that they're flawed and therefore don't live our lives by them, I guess, you know what I mean? It's not like we're aggressively indifferent. We're passively indifferent, but it's something that happens every year that we have to talk about. And it's like, we don't buy into this. It's not Twippy, it's not the Pinball Awards or TPN. It's not any of those organizations that we have a problem with. We just have a problem with it. We know that these and most award shows are flawed. We just don't buy into it. Am I summarizing correctly? If you heard the reach rounds, it was a major fuck you to all award shows. All of them, really. It was just, we were taking the piss out of it. You're right. There's nothing wrong with the organization, Twip. There's nothing wrong with the organization, the Pinball Network, and these people that put on these award shows. Zero. In fact, great admiration for all of them. Seriously. What I personally, and I can't speak for you, Marty, is I hate any association that I may have with any of them. I'm talking about award shows. I'm guilty by association because we happen to do a podcast. So we are either nominated or not nominated and it's a process I fucking really just want nothing to do with, zero to do with. I didn't do this podcast, whether it's Pinball Profile almost seven years ago or this one now in our fourth year. We didn't do it to win an award. We don't give a shit. We never ever fucking ask and beg and plead for votes because that is worth zero when you do that. It's worth nothing. You know what? You tell me out of the blue, hey, fuck, you got this and it's a surprise, that's great. That's wonderful. That also doesn't mean anything. It's nice. Like we said a week ago, when you tell us you listen to the show, you comment, you send us emails, that's why we do this. Mm-hmm. Correct. Correct. You're right. And again, we're not, if we didn't get nominated for podcast, like I know Pinball Profile always gets nominated so you're okay, but we didn't get, we didn't last year. I don't say, I wouldn't say so. I mean, again, zero solicitations. Do you want to know, take a look at the history. When the awards come out and when the nominations are up, I go radio silent. I don't post a podcast. I don't post, I certainly don't post, vote for this, that. I kind of want to lay low. I do it on purpose, just to fucking have your little vote stuff, but I don't want to be perceived as any kind of, I purposely do not do anything that solicitation time. No, I know, but my point I was trying to make was that you don't care whether you're in there or whether, if you weren't on the top 10, you also wouldn't care either. Couldn't give a shit. No, you couldn't give a shit either way. Because that's my segue into pinball innovations. What can you name the innovations on Rush? Innovations on Rush? I'm looking at the machine right now. Innovations? VUX have been there before. A scoop can go to the side and go at the bottom. A clock is just a toy. They've had the posts come up behind drops before, you know, posts come up before. A I guess I mentioned it again. Hey man, it's a fucking open ballot where people know what they know. They know what they know and I don't fault them for that. No, this is my point. I do not fault anyone for that. That's just the nature of these I just wanted to bring that up. That is just, for me, the example where I go, well, I could rattle off on both hands the innovations on A Fathom Revisited. Didn't get top three. Russia's got none. It got voted because people know that game. They don't know Fathom. That's just an example that says, nothing wrong if you're into this kind of stuff, but it's flawed, so not buying into it. And therefore, it doesn't actually bother me that we're not there. Hey, you know what I mean? In the time since we've been recording, I sent a few emails out because we were recording during the Pinball Awards and couldn't really watch it. They announced the excellence in podcasting. Do you want to know who the three were? I told you. Yes, you can tell me. Well, I was watching those. Silver Ball Chronicles with Ron and David, the Pinball Show with Zach and Dennis, and Triple Drain with Double Zero Travis with Tom Graf and Joel as well. All great podcasts by the way. I listen to all of them. The winner was the pinball show and I believe won it last year too. So congrats. I think they'll probably be in the top three once the podcasting thing comes out for TPF, the Twippies and all that stuff. They always seem to be there and it's kind of a weekly go-to. I think the success of their show is they provide news and information, some commentary as well, a different angle, you know, with what Dennis does with Eclectic, really in-depth. He's a great writer too, by the way. And then the sense of humor that they both add and Zach's knowledge of the distributor side of it. So congrats to them. I do genuinely believe that they actually are the best pinball podcast. I'm just, that's just me. I think they are. Hard not to disagree. So congrats to them. What we did kind of see before we logged on to do this podcast was had a quick look at the YouTube channel and again, you were talking about production of INDISC. Big production value to do this. So it's no easy task and a lot of hours. Pretty impressive, I'd have to say. This is something you can probably catch on YouTube, so go to the Pinball Network and catch the pinball awards. And then, of course, the Twippies are TPF Live with Emoto and how good is this? Todd Tucky. I knew they'd find a way better replacement than yours truly. Fucking Todd Tucky. You can't get a better one than him. Well, you say that and I'm not disagreeing with you. Todd's a legend. Yes, he is. Yeah, he is. I... Funny videos. Like he... Like the... Whether it's your sense of humor or not, creative and volume and just a long history. Pretty love guy. I think he's fantastic. My point is, on his videos, he's a bit of a loose cannon anyway. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? Imagine him in a live environment. Oh, I... What I'm thinking is that it's gonna probably be the best Twippies ever just because I don't I think you'll be able to control him and I think he's going to be random as fuck and I cannot wait. I am here for it. Did you... Oh no, it was a face... I was going to say, did you get the email? It wasn't an email. We... Emoto sent me a note that I have to produce a 30 second tease of final round and also pinball profile of what the show is about. So obviously samples from... I have no idea. You didn't see this. I forgot. Fuck, it was sent directly to me. What should we... Listener, please tell us. What should we... So they're going to highlight, which is really cool. I hope I'm not spoiling anything. Ah, fuck. Who cares? They're going to highlight all the 10 nominees for podcasts. They're going to play 15, 30-second clips. Okay, hold on a second. Let me just... I'm just going to check our email and see... read that email that came through. It came to Emoto... Oh! Yeah. Oh, is that my point that I'm making? I'm Ron and here's our co-host. You fucking get off your high horse, Howlett. You're fucking equal hosts there on Sam Tilted. Yeah. Anyway, equal hosts here, Marty, you and I. It's just maybe I'm the editor. And also I've been talking to Emoto for months about INDISC and stuff. So somebody's butt just got hurt. Sure. So here comes the silent treatment. Marty, what should we use for our 15-30 second thing? I don't care about the awards. Even to you. So why should we care? I don't care. You're right. I would care if they used a sample that didn't represent us best. So is it possible to- The 30 seconds clip they're getting is from the reach arounds. I'll submit it. I was going to say like a 30 second loop of you saying cunt. Play that at TPL. Those, those, that, that and any clip from the reach arounds, interchangeable. They both mean the same thing. I just, why don't we just play Ed's song, Ed Robertson's song where he says, most awards show suck, you end up getting bored. Wooo, hello. Oh, good times. Hello. Oh, fuck. Oh, so anyway, okay, we gotta figure that out. Hey, I saw Avatar. Oh, okay. What'd you think? You said, go, go, go, go, go see it, go see it, go see it. Sure. You know my favorite part of Avatar? What's that? I was really tired from the week that was It was a great time to take a nap Did you fall asleep There might have been a ten minute period where I was like and then my son like hey wake up Yeah It a long film Sid Kuppert could flexible candidate since Scott We're a 60, 70 minute set. You've probably gone too long. Leave them wanting more. And we know there's going to be more because there's going to be more sequels. It was just too long. It was great. The story was okay. No, the story was good. It was just... It was fine. Yeah. I mean, it's the second best grossing movie of all time right now. It's something to see, but I don't get it. Am I missing something? There's big movies I just don't get. I've seen them. I saw all the Lord of the Rings movies. I was like, am I missing something? No, and this is, again, my thoughts when I saw this was, like, yeah, definitely go and see it. If you like the first one, you'll like the second one. But the difference is, the first one was new. It was innovative. When it came to the visuals, it was next level. This is kind of next level, but it's an increment. It's not, there's not, as you know, The visuals are great and some of it's wow, but it's not wow, I've never seen anything like this. This is like wow, this is next level, but not that much next level. It's still very good. If you like roller coasters, you get a big rush of excitement. You go on another roller coaster, okay, that's a little different. The turns went this way, it went upside down. Yes. Same thing. That's a really good analogy right there. Yep. It is effectively more of the same, better than the original, but the bulk of it's more of the same. Okay. In other news, did you hear of Brian, do you, I don't know if that even gets there in Australia. Did you hear about Brian Walsh? Do you know who Brian Walsh is? Brian Walsh? Don't Google it if you don't know. Um, is he the executive general manager for AFL? Probably, but that's not the one I'm thinking and you're obviously Googling so fuck that. Is he a footballer? No. No. No. Stop Googling. No, it keeps coming up to... Although Googling, if you did Google, that could get you in trouble. Because that's what got Brian Walsh in trouble for Googling. Brian Walsh is a guy in Massachusetts that was charged with killing his wife. Now she sadly has died. Why is Brian being charged? Because they've since found out he was Googling how to get away with killing your wife and disposing of the body. He was doing it on his son's iPad. hobbycomicdiamondartinульty .com VO14 Could Now See sense less? and more. And now, let's fucking do it! It's time to bring back an old favourite. Oh no! Fucking yes. Is that what you're doing? You're setting this bullshit up. I've got Brian Walsh here on my notes. I'm looking up some football player. Now I'm reading about this Serbian woman that's had her body dismembered. You've done that just to set me up to do this fucking shit thing? Okay. Welcome back. Oh my god. A fan favourite. And now, the pinball game. Time to kill some people! Yes! Is it? Is it? From who? Oh, wouldn't that be great? That's what we submit. Who we killed. Yes! Okay. And now, final round. Marty, who would you rather have dead? Okay, is this not going to be, is it the pinball awards or the two-piece? Which one am I going to kill off? Is that what this is now? Oh, fuck it. I'll save it. Oh, fuck, that's the perfect time. I got a better one. I wasn't thinking of that. I was waiting to find out who won the pinball awards for best podcasting. I'm like, let's fucking kill those guys, then we can have a shot. So that's who's on the ticket tonight. It's Zach Meny and Dennis Kriesel. All right. Those two fuckers have won back to back pinball awards. Nobody's saying they created the pinball awards so that they can give themselves an award. Don't even suggest that. You already did. But it's time to put those two to test. Toe to toe combat. One lives, one dies. You, Marty, you have the opportunity to sneak one of them a shiv. Give them the weapon that'll help them secure their life. Is it Zach Meny who does the pinball show and is a distributor for Flip N Out? Or is it Dennis Kriesel who for years with Tony has done the Eclectic Gamers Podcast, lived in Kansas and gives us all kind of great information, great writer? Well, let's see how good they are in the battlefield when it comes to fight for your life. Marty, who lives, who dies? You decide. Are you actually now giving it like a proper title, Fight For Your Life? Ah, fuck today I am. Sure, okay, fair enough. Okay, so let's look at these two fine gentlemen on either side. As you said... When you say that, I just, I can't see you, but I'm thinking, I want them both dead. But go ahead. But you said that's not an option. So if I can't kill them both, although I have killed people of... Anyway. So let's talk about Zach Meny first. Zach Meny, whom is a distributor, as you've said, a distributor of Haggis, I believe. Oh, there's where we're going. Okay, go ahead. So I just wanted to bring that up. That's just incidental. Got nothing to do with my decision, sure, but somebody that would actually put food on my table. Okay. Okay. Whom I met at TPF for the first time and he was very, very welcoming, very nice to me, lovely, gave me a lot of time and he was there with his Flip N Out stand so to give me the time that he did was just fantastic. It was awesome. I loved catching up with Zach. He was awesome. I think Zach is an awesome guy. By the way, food on your table. Other distributors can do that too. You don't have to... He's not the only one selling Haggis. I'm not trying to kill Zach. I'm just pointing out that he's not the only one. Go on. What I can tell you is this, which is I'm blurring some lines here, but I can tell you this. Do you know that Zach Meny and Nicole obviously and Flip N Out have got a reputation for being one of the best distributors in the world? Have you heard that? I haven't heard it. I have assumed it because of how many people I know are thrilled with their products and service for sure. You get rave reviews, right? Hey, they're a sponsor of the Pinball Profile Played in America Tour and they were my first choice and he didn't blink an eye, so I agree. As a worker or as a person that's part of a pinball manufacturer that has got them as a distributor, I now know why they get so much praise for being a great distributor because they are, I'm just telling you, phenomenal partners. That's all I'm saying. We're trying to kill somebody. Here you are praising both of them. Go on. I mean, obviously Dennis is getting killed. I'm just working up to that point. Okay. Okay. I'm just... Whoops! I'm just... Whoops! I mean, things could change. Hold on. Go on. I'll fight for you, Dennis. And then Dennis, whom I have met once. I met him at TPF. Had a chat with him and Tony. So awesome. He is, I would say, probably one of the most underrated podcasters. Yeah, I'd agree. I say that because, in a way, he's kind of like us in that he doesn't care what you think. He is there to entertain, to give you some information, to do it very succinctly, and to educate people. That is, I think, what... and I'm speaking on behalf of Dennis, but I think that's what . I think he's extremely funny. There are some people that want to let you know they're funny and just like they'll laugh at their own jokes and stuff like that. Yes. Yeah. He just is. He just is. If you get it, you get it. If you don't, he moves on to the next one. I like that kind of humor. Well, you and I were having this conversation before we started recording where we were talking about comedies and we were saying there are comedies that force feed you the distortions or What weapon are you feeding? Like how do you want them to go? I'm just curious. You haven't even told me the scenario, have you? Well, they're in a, I assume, a cage of death and they have to fight for each other, but they're probably not great fighters if we're being honest, so they need some sort of weapon. So what are you doing? Do you want a quick death? Do you want, like how do you want Dennis to go? You know what? To be honest, what I know about Zach is I know a lot more about Zach than I do Dennis, And when I think of Zach and I think if I was to kill Zach, I can see the pictures, the faces of his children and his wife because he shows his photos of his fucking family all the time. Whereas if Dennis went, I don't know what his family is. Has he got kids? Has he got a wife? Has he got a partner? I don't know. Has he got a dog that's going to be left behind? I don't know. If my guess is correct, he does have a dog named Precious that fell down a well Tim Kitzrow Animation Edition Yummy Danny From Intelening Bill O'Gee, Marty. It's a sad loss. Ladies and gentlemen, he was a cunt. And obviously I'm Australian, so that's a compliment. And didn't know how to defend himself with the shiv that I gave Zach. So rest in peace. So long, Dennis. I still hate that segment, but I actually enjoyed that one then. Oh, fuck, I like the idea of twips versus pinball awards. Oh, that's a good one. Yeah, there's one where both aren't making it, let's be honest. Okay, so, emails. Yes, emails. We had a lot of emails come through, none of them from Emoto, I've just noticed. Oh, directly to me, pinballprofile.gmail.com. Oh, cool, cool, cool, cool. Yep, yep, yep, cool. Actually, probably cell phone message, if I'm really being honest. There's a good one from David Lee. Okay, you read that one. What I actually want to do is I just head-to-head got an email this week. Oh wow. Yep. Mix it up. What's really funny is that this, our podcast got asked to be a marketer for Manscaped. So you know Manscaped, obviously you know you shave your balls and do whatever. Oh my god. I got one of those too. Go on. Yeah. But for head-to-head and they're like, hey, head-to-head pinball team, we came across your show and think it's a great fit. Why? Because we do a show once a year. Is that, what? How's this happen? Can I just tell you that that is by far the number one reason why I like traveling for pinball. You think it's for competition. You think it's for seeing people. Uh-uh. And I apologize to the hotel staff. I'm a good tipper. Don't you worry. But by far the best thing about traveling is it's a perfect opportunity to manscape, all right? Because you do not want... Yeah, leave it behind. You don't want the fucking shrapnel and curlies at your place. If you need to trim the hedge, bring out the weed whacker when you're on the road. This is what pinball tournaments are all about. I agree. So I would say even without being an official sponsor, everybody go to manscaped.com and fucking shave your balls. Oh, you vajayjay, I'm not discriminating here. What I'm saying is you're fucking just bushy down there. Do something about it, you fucking dirty fucks. Yeah, exactly. Manscaped.com Get some money. Cha-ching, yeah. Yeah, there you go. Type in final round on the promo code. Um... We did get... I've had... I think it came to final round too. I know I've seen them before. Pinball profile, like yeah that's gonna work. No, that ain't happening. Wow. No, David Lee had a good email. Actually, there were a few. David Dennis. I kinda agree with you. You said Keith hasn't got there yet? What? I know you take a lot to get off, but surely Keith has warmed up to you by now. David Dennis, if you're not hot and bothered like most, do you think you will eventually get there or should Keith just give up, fake a cramp and move on? What kind of long ramps, deep code or various tiny pop-ups, posts do you need to get you there? Oh, David, we love you. Yep. If you won in the Silver Ball Chronicles, you would have been in that cage of death. So you're still alive, David. So be thankful. Yep. Absolutely. Be thankful. Yep. But just on that, I know we joke, but I still maintain, get him off that pedestal just for now. Give him some more time. It's only been four games. It's only four. Five. Doesn't count. What do you mean it doesn't count? It's a totally different playfield. It's brand new. Yeah, don't, don't, don't. It's five, fucker. It's five, fucker. Hasn't been shipped yet, so no one knows whether it's any good. It's sold more games than other companies, so it definitely counts. Yeah, but we don't know whether it's a good game. But it's still five games. It's not four. And it's a game you said you'd buy in a heartbeat if the money wasn't there. Sure, I know, but we still don't know if it's a good game. He's still not a fucking seasoned veteran, right? Yes. That's the point. Anyway, people are agreeing with me. David Dennis agrees with me. So there's a lot of- He's Canadian. What does he know? So there you go. A lot of people that have agreed with me now. Oh. Oh. David Lee, thanks for putting out the podcasts. And thanks for the tournament talk going. Jeff had a strong opinion that Keith should go to a contractor. We already talked about that. I'm going to skip all that shit. Oh, you're going to skip it because they agree with me? Oh, fuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Stop. I told you. He agrees with me that I want Keith to make more games. That's all it is. And that's, I told Keith that, I said I don't want to have to fucking sit and wait till when that next game is, because I want to play it. So it's just me being selfish, that's all it is. I never claimed to be anything other than that. So let's read another email, this is Jason from the Pinball Party, he says, Marty, fuck man, you described my thoughts on Godzilla way better than I could. I always just described it as throwing everything in the kitchen sink at it, but I never quite deduced why that turned me off. So what turns me off is what you mentioned, that there is always something giving you positive feedback, which to me takes away from some of the challenges of not every shot always meaning something. Anyway, thanks for helping my brain come to terms with why I didn't love Godzilla. Don't get me wrong, I like the shots, but it's one Keith game that I don't really agree with its first place pedestal. Awesome show as usual, you fucking cunts. Do you realize that Jason contacted me today? And if you listen to Pinball Party, it's funny. We've talked about it before on this show. He has this robot called MEF, which is a combination of Marty and Jeff. And he asked me to come on the show to talk about INDISC and tournament talk. So I will get back to him and find out if he would like you to come on as well, because I know he's a fan of the show, the final round, not me. Yeah, cool. I'm a fan of his show. He's awesome. Oh, yeah. The Last Little Thought A little tip from me to you. If you ever fly to tournaments, and I do quite a bit, and you drove to Tasmania, I can't believe that, but I guess it was a lot of fun. Wait, no, I put it on a boat that goes over to Tasmania. So it's like a 10-hour, you actually drive it onto the boat. Yeah, a ferry. There's thousands of them. Yeah, it's like a ferry. No, no, it's kind of like a catamaran type thing. Huge. And then it's 10 hours to get over to Tasmania and then you drive it off. You didn't fly. No. So I flew to INDISC. I'm about to go to Wisconsin. And why, by the way, I'm going there in February and I don't know why I do this. Every time I go to Wisconsin, I'm always flicking through Netflix and I'm watching shit. And the last thing I just watched was the Dahmer series where he killed all those people in Milwaukee. I'm like, fuck, why do I watch this right before I go to Wisconsin? Now I think everybody's downward when I go there. You should have watched Laverne and Shirley or Happy Days or something. Anyway, here's my tip to you when you're flying. I don't fly first class. Do you, Marty? No. Business? Very few times. Business, but I even many times have had my company say, oh, we'll fly you business. I'm like, oh, don't spend the money. I'd rather you save the money because I just think business is nice. Sure. But not necessary for me. Not necessary for me either. What is odd though, like if you go overseas, obviously first class is at the front of the plane and you know when peons, if you will, get on, they're already on board and you don't even see them because you're turning right and they're on the left side. But on most planes, you enter at the front and you have to walk by the first class people. You get that right? You know that for most flights, correct? Yep. It's a pet peeve of mine. Not that they're in first class, all power to them, but the look of disgust when you walk on the plane and they're sitting in their fucking big wide seats and they up and down look you. You ever notice that? Here's my tip to you and I do this every fucking time. When someone does that to me in first class and they do the up and down look to see who's going to the back of the bus, if you will, I always, always fake trip and bump into them Tim Kitzrow will be joining us soon for my fünf dix 이야기 of Boyology Melancholy, Momente Теперь des Dev median 있든 aimed at Celtic說니의 Drawn Love, and Ma 미 알�赤 찰스 We're not as good as you, but when you give us a look, you're about to either get bumped or shit on. Just a little lesson. It's a good thing that you've always got one in the chamber. Always one in the chamber. Fuck it. Always. Sometimes two. Why do you think I do well at classics? I'm like, fuck, I blew that ball, but you're about to eat this for the next 30 seconds. Little tip. I do remember actually once I was in business class and I remember sitting next to this woman who was a real pain in the ass. She kept complaining about stuff. But we were about an hour into the flight and then she just started letting these things go. Like these things, I feel like they've been festering for two centuries up her butt. Out they came and people were just dying all around this vicinity like crop circles. It was like, and they were, this went for about half an hour. And in that half an hour, then food arrived and first, it's obviously nice food. And you know what happened? What? Nobody ate. You know what happened? No, I'll tell you what happened. I ate my dinner and it didn't sit well with me. I kid you not, for the next two hours, I was fucking lobbing them back over at her. Like a tennis match. The Australian Open. It honestly was. But she was doing it as well. And there was this one time where it was just, we just looked at each other and sort of just, we both just looked at each other and sort of shrugged our shoulders and went, oh well. That's what it is. We've obviously both got massive bowel issues at the moment. Oh my god. In a plane, nobody wins. In a plane, correct. No one wins. So that's what happened. You know, I'm such a dick too when I, and you think I'm joking, I don't. I'm a dick in the sense that if I smell one, I immediately yell, who shit? Who did this right away? When I'm mainly the guy guilty all the time. Yep. Yeah, good times. I'd imagine your schwingter has been on bootcamp many years to get it just right so you can just make no sound but maximum odor. Well, conversely too, when I want sound, it's like a fucking bugle down there. It's amazing. I can do any Chuck Mangione song. I'm telling you. You can join an orchestra with that. Yep, exactly. Okay, where can people reach us? They can email us at finalroundpinball at gmail.com. We are on Instagram at finalroundpinballpodcast, maybe, and Twitter. We're not mentioning Twitter, are we? Fuck Twitter. Yeah, at finalroundpin, anyway, if you could be bothered. But really, email us or message us on Facebook. We will respond to you. My only advice to you is, if you are going to message us, make sure you message both of us. Yeah. It's probably the lesson for this episode. Engin loan Martin Roe, dot com mereka bivediksi hellos a king Not for you, it'll be for this game. It won't be bad for me at all. Thank you. You're welcome. Good to talk to you again. Thanks for the birthday wish. Oh, you forgot. Anyway, have a good time. When's your birthday? It was fucking yesterday. It was fucking yesterday. Yesterday. Right. Right. You know when yours is and you know I'm a week before you. Oh, I, I mean I know you... Oh, I... It's like a fucking 80s robot breaking... Well, it's, ah, because, I don't know, I think it's going to be hard for you to actually feel my genuine sorry for missing your birthday. Ryan Seated too. That's a... Like, fuck, not only is it, it's also Australia Day, like, you know it's right around there. And you know why it's important this year? Like, here's the biggest thing, and yes, I am fucking talking about it. What came off my IFBA card was my win in Australia at the Pinball Profile World Tour. I mention it because it doesn't exist anymore. It's gone. It's off my IFBA card. No, no, no, no, no. That's not how the trippy works. That's not how the rich man. And who was it? It was Greg Silby that paid for that. Come get me, Greg. Anyway, it's gone now. But the legend remains. Jarrod endings wanna And I felt like a dick because I'm like, fuck, I don't see notifications of birthdays. Because I check Facebook on my phone more than anything else and nowhere does it say birthdays. I don't know, like I would have to search it, I guess. If I go on my desktop, they kind of, notifications, hey, it's such and such birthdays, but I don't see that on mine. So tell me, what's the actual date of your birthday for everybody? Because remember, you said it's yesterday. Well, I don't know, yesterday was the 28th? First of all, 27th. Okay, so there you go. You said yesterday, well, it's the 28th. Well, again, I'm only talking about where I am living. It's funny because Mr. Osborne was the first to send me a note, Dr. John, right after that because Australia gets my birthday first, so I'm thinking, oh, fuck Marty and Ryan, I'll be here soon, soon, soon. Nothing. Crickets. Like a game of Frontier. Not as enjoyable. You know how my wife celebrated my birthday? How's that? She's in Cabo for the week. austinapal Lancome et langא�n again Vwind II wedn DOWN два W." s. All right, thanks everyone. Bye. 1 1 1

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