# The Pinball Show Ep 126 BONUS: The Grails - Back To The Future, The Goonies, & Super Mario Bros.

**Source:** Pinball Show Patreon Feed  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2023-04-25  
**Duration:** 26m 32s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://www.patreon.com/posts/pinball-show-ep-81998517

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## Analysis

A Pinball Show Club bonus episode discussing three 'grail' pinball themes: Back to the Future, The Goonies, and Super Mario Bros. The hosts reveal industry intelligence about licensing hurdles for each title—Back to the Future is confirmed to be in development by someone but faces extreme actor licensing costs; The Goonies is rumored to be in play at Spooky Pinball based on voice actor Scott Einz wearing Goonies merch, but is blocked by Jeff Cohen (Chunk actor) refusing to sign off; Super Mario will not happen because Nintendo only licenses complex interactive games if they manufacture them themselves, not through third parties.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Back to the Future license has been secured by someone in the industry (not yet revealed which manufacturer) — _Host states: 'Somebody does have Back to the Future, I'm being told.' Claims direct contact with industry licensing people._
- [HIGH] Back to the Future licensing costs exceed typical pinball machine build budgets and actor likenesses (Michael J. Fox, Christopher Lloyd) command prohibitive fees — _Host cites direct conversation with 'people in the industry...responsible for discussing licenses with IP holders' about the 'hellacious price tag' and actor signing costs._
- [MEDIUM] Goonies is being developed, likely by Spooky Pinball, based on voice actor Scott Einz wearing Goonies logo shirt during recent recording session — _Host describes Scott Einz voiceover teaser and speculates about skull-and-crossbones Goonies shirt in photo. Acknowledges it's speculation but ties to Spooky Pinball context._
- [HIGH] Jeff Cohen (Chunk actor) refuses to sign off on Goonies pinball and is an entertainment lawyer who is 'very difficult to work with' — _Host cites direct information from company 'pretty close to sealing the deal' on Goonies. States: 'the most recent information that I have is that Jeff Cohen still will refuse.'_
- [MEDIUM] Deep Root Pinball had the Goonies license at some point — _Host mentions: 'We do know that Deep Root was said to have the Goonies license.' Uses tentative language ('was said to')._
- [HIGH] Nintendo will not license Super Mario for pinball to third parties; they would only develop a pinball division themselves — _Host cites licensing industry contact: 'Nintendo has said they're at a point in their company that if they were going to sign off on something like a pinball machine, they would be the ones creating and manufacturing it.'_
- [MEDIUM] Stern Pinball made Godzilla and it is 'the greatest game that Stern has ever made' — _Host opinion stated as fact for rhetorical effect, acknowledges bias: 'I know this is a little unfair because Godzilla is the greatest game that Stern has ever made.'_
- [HIGH] Spooky Pinball publicly accused Stern of stealing the Godzilla license from them during licensing negotiations — _Host references: 'Spooky was so upset that they were in discussions to try and get Godzilla and then Stern ended up getting the license and they threw Stern out publicly and said that they stole it from us.'_
- [LOW] James Bond pinball is rumored/expected based on timing and IP availability — _Host speculates on Joe Kaminkow's garage mural containing James Bond imagery and references 'we're in the window for content.'_
- [MEDIUM] There is a Data East/Sega Michael Jordan pinball machine limited to 23 units, similar to Richie Rich — _Host references 'limited 23 units that was made like Richie Rich' but admits personal uncertainty: 'No, I have not. I think there's a couple out there.'_

### Notable Quotes

> "Somebody does have Back to the Future, I'm being told. Now... Back to the Future without any of the cast. I don't know what that means, but someone has wrangled in that dream game license."
> — **Host (Zach or Dennis)**, ~mid-episode
> _Confirms Back to the Future is officially in development but raises questions about licensing scope._

> "The problem is that when it comes to something as in-depth as arguably a rival game, it's a game. It's, it is in itself, pinball is a game. Very complex. It requires LCD animation integration... Nintendo has said they're at a point in their company that if they were going to sign off on something like a pinball machine, they would be the ones creating and manufacturing it."
> — **Host (licensing industry contact paraphrased)**, ~late episode
> _Explains the structural business reason Mario pinball will not be licensed to third parties._

> "Jeff Cohen that is impossible to get... He's in the industry, but not as an actor. He is an entertainment lawyer. I've heard he is very, very difficult to work with and a bit of an eccentric fellow. So he doesn't care. He just will not sign off on anything."
> — **Co-host**, ~mid-episode
> _Confirms the central blocker for Goonies pinball machine development._

> "Godzilla is the greatest game that Stern has ever made... I never had anyone say they were they wished Spooky had won out. It's always been, oh, this game definitely, Stern did this game justice."
> — **Host**, ~mid-to-late episode
> _Demonstrates Stern's design superiority and the competitive dynamics between manufacturers._

> "The company I was talking to that was pretty close to sealing the deal, and I don't know if Spooky got it, I don't know who... said that they would have a hard time pulling the trigger on it because it wouldn't include Chunk and they can't get Chunk to even really do the game."
> — **Host**, ~mid-episode
> _Direct insider information about Goonies licensing negotiation failure._

> "It's Bond. It's Bond Cornerstone. Really? And it's because of the launch and the slowness on developing code. The game as it stands could be, and I think it will end up being better respected than it currently is."
> — **Host discussing Stern's worst recent game**, ~late episode
> _Reveals current sentiment on Stern's Bond title and code development challenges._

> "I think they're going for was like the coins of the treasure chest. I'm like, no, Jeff. And he was like, I wish it was better, but no, dude, it kind of does suck."
> — **Co-host**, ~mid-episode
> _Dismissive commentary on older pinball design (coin pusher mechanics) in Goonies context._

> "I think JJP just figures out that, hey, the way that we can make the Goonies happen appropriately is not to pay this guy because he gets royalties and he's got enough money. We've got to feed his ego, so he's going to be a co-designer."
> — **Host**, ~end episode
> _Satirical but revealing suggestion about how to work around Chunk actor's resistance._

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Back to the Future | game | Licensed pinball game based on the 1985 film, confirmed to be in development by an unnamed manufacturer with multi-party licensing challenges (DeLorean, music, actor likenesses). |
| The Goonies | game | Rumored pinball game possibly in development at Spooky Pinball; blocked by Jeff Cohen (Chunk actor) refusing to sign licensing agreement. |
| Super Mario Bros | game | Will not be licensed by Nintendo to third-party pinball manufacturers; Nintendo would only develop as a proprietary in-house division if at all. |
| Jeff Cohen | person | Actor who played Chunk in The Goonies; now an entertainment lawyer who refuses to sign off on Goonies pinball licensing, described as 'very difficult to work with' and eccentric. |
| Joe Kaminkow | person | Legendary pinball designer known as 'the license getter' recently inducted into Pinball Hall of Fame; hosts large superhero car mural in garage, speculation about Back to the Future involvement. |
| Scott Einz | person | Voice actor who did voiceover for Spooky Pinball teaser; photographed wearing Goonies logo shirt, sparking speculation about Goonies machine development. |
| Spooky Pinball | company | Pinball manufacturer rumored to be developing Goonies; publicly accused Stern of stealing Godzilla license during past negotiations. |
| Stern Pinball | company | Major pinball manufacturer praised for consistent game quality and design excellence; received Godzilla license over Spooky, created recent games including Bond, Jurassic Park, Marvel titles. |
| Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Referenced in context of licensing strategy and design philosophy; mentioned in comparison to Stern regarding toy integration and theme execution. |
| Deep Root Pinball | company | Said to have previously held Goonies license; may have developed prototype with coin pusher mechanics. |
| Godzilla | game | Recent Stern Pinball title described as 'the greatest game Stern has ever made'; Spooky publicly disputed Stern's acquisition of this license. |
| John Popadiuk | person | Stern Pinball designer referenced as consistently delivering quality games; part of 'dream team' driving recent Stern success. |
| Jack Danger | person | Relatively new Stern Pinball designer contributing to recent design variety and creative direction. |
| Elwin | person | Relatively new designer at Stern Pinball contributing to creative mix and design variety. |
| Nintendo | company | Would not license Super Mario for pinball to third parties; maintains strict control over complex interactive game licensing. |
| Sega of Tokyo | company | Historical pinball manufacturer in 1970s Japan; separate entity from later Sega incarnations that acquired Data East. |
| Data East | company | Created Michael Jordan pinball (23 units); later became part of Sega's ownership structure. |
| Pinball Hall of Fame | organization | Las Vegas-based pinball museum and arcade where Joe Kaminkow was recently inducted. |
| Ke Huy Quan | person | Goonies actor; recently won Oscar; discussed as potentially easier to license than other main cast. |
| Sean Astin | person | Goonies actor; discussed as potentially available for cameo licensing for pinball. |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Back to the Future pinball development status and licensing challenges, Goonies pinball and Jeff Cohen's refusal to license, Super Mario pinball licensing impossibility
- **Secondary:** Stern vs Spooky competitive dynamics and Godzilla license dispute, Licensing strategy and actor compensation in pinball, Stern game design consistency and quality baseline, Nintendo's business model and third-party licensing restrictions
- **Mentioned:** Pinball industry insider gossip and speculation

### Sentiment

**Mixed** (0.55) — Hosts are excited about Back to the Future confirmation but disappointed by licensing barriers; frustrated about Jeff Cohen blocking Goonies; resigned to Mario impossibility. Tone is often sarcastic and joking, masking genuine industry frustration. Overall positive about Stern's design excellence and future prospects, but cautious about unrealistic licensing expectations.

### Signals

- **[machine_intel]** Back to the Future pinball confirmed to be in development by an unnamed manufacturer; licensing includes actor likenesses (Michael J. Fox, Christopher Lloyd) but at prohibitive cost; DeLorean and music rights add to complexity. (confidence: high) — Host states: 'Somebody does have Back to the Future, I'm being told.' References direct industry contacts discussing licensing negotiations and cost barriers.
- **[rumor_hype]** Goonies pinball machine rumored to be in development at Spooky Pinball based on voice actor Scott Einz wearing Goonies merch during recent recording session. (confidence: medium) — Host observes Scott Einz photo with 'skull and crossbones of the Goonies logo' shirt during voiceover work; acknowledges speculative nature but ties to Spooky context.
- **[regulatory_signal]** Jeff Cohen (Chunk actor) refuses to sign Goonies pinball licensing and is an entertainment lawyer with reputation for being difficult to work with, effectively blocking game completion. (confidence: high) — Host cites company 'pretty close to sealing the deal' that withdrew due to inability to license Chunk; states 'most recent information' confirms Jeff Cohen's refusal.
- **[licensing_signal]** Nintendo will not license Super Mario to third-party pinball manufacturers; would only develop pinball in-house as proprietary division if licensing complex interactive games. (confidence: high) — Host references licensing industry contact: Nintendo stated they would only sign off on pinball if 'they would be the ones creating and manufacturing it.'
- **[industry_signal]** Spooky Pinball publicly accused Stern of stealing Godzilla license during negotiations; Stern's version (Godzilla) vastly outperforms competitor expectations, validating manufacturer choice. (confidence: high) — Host documents Spooky's public statement: 'they threw Stern out publicly and said that they stole it from us.' Notes Stern's Godzilla received universal praise over hypothetical Spooky version.
- **[design_philosophy]** Stern Pinball maintains higher baseline quality across all recent games (John Popadiuk, Jack Danger, Elwin); even 'worst' recent title (Bond) is still competent compared to competitors. (confidence: high) — Host states: 'Stern, you've got this sort of baseline level of quality and their baseline is higher than everyone else's baseline. That is their core strength.'
- **[personnel_signal]** Jack Danger and Elwin are relatively new designers at Stern contributing to increased creative variety in recent Marvel and Thor titles. (confidence: medium) — Host mentions 'Jack Danger being extremely new' and 'Elwin being relatively new' in context of Stern's design mix with Thor Ragnarok, Doctor Strange, Guardians of the Galaxy.
- **[market_signal]** Back to the Future licensing costs exceed typical pinball budgets; actor likenesses command 'ridiculous price points'; only lead actors (Fox, Lloyd) are truly essential blockers. (confidence: high) — Host cites industry contact: 'everything...it is a hellacious price tag for this license...blows past any type of building materials...surpass the most ridiculous price points.'
- **[sentiment_shift]** Community expectations for iconic IP pinball (Mario, Goonies) being reset downward as licensing realities become public; Stern's design excellence makes it acceptable substitute for any license. (confidence: medium) — Host argues: 'there are so many good potential licenses. We don't need to get obsessed with not getting our particular one...Stern to have it for a variety of potential reasons.'
- **[business_signal]** Stern Bond suffered reputational damage due to slow code development timeline and launch issues, though game is expected to improve with future updates. (confidence: medium) — Host states: 'It's Bond. It's because of the launch and the slowness on developing code...will end up being better respected than it currently is.'
- **[historical_signal]** Sega of Tokyo (separate entity from later Sega) manufactured pinball machines for Japanese market in 1970s; Data East later became part of Sega ownership structure and continued US pinball manufacturing. (confidence: high) — Host documents: 'Sega had pinball in their history...Sega of Tokyo...made pinball in the 70s for the Japanese market...Separate company...from the one that has continued on as Stern.'

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## Transcript

 Thanks again for the ongoing support as a Pinball Show Club member. Enjoy this exclusive TPS content and make sure to visit the Pinball Show Club Discord to chat about the bonus material. I probably don't give a shit about two of the three of those, but I care about all three. Well, that may be very well fair, Zach, but I have for years criticized the notion of doing Black Back to the Future. I think it is not a good decision to move forward with and that I've always been very skeptical that you would have very much in the way of assets. Because the very first time we saw it, back when it was relevant, it was Marty McPotatoface. Oh, that makes me sad. I think you're unbelievably underselling the popularity of what Back to the Future could bring to pinball. It is, on all these lists, it surpasses even that of Harry Potter on a lot of these lists. Those lists would be wrong, is how we pronounce them. We pronounce them as wrong, Zach. The last week people were talking about, I think even Knapp Arcade ran a picture of Joe Kaminkow in his incredible garage. He was speaking to the murals on the back of his garage because he's got these super cars that are associated with the films that he just loves or the content pieces that he loves, whether it be sports or whatnot. And he was pushing and nudging toward, hey, there is a big ass Back to the Future mural and maybe a supercar there. Why? Maybe that's a little, because we've got Batman sitting here on his mural. That happened to his pinball machine. But maybe, just maybe, we're going to see a Back to the Future because of that. So that's what he was hinting at. A little bit of a stretch. James Bond, that's the other one. James Bond. We're in the window for content. So you look for anything you can. I get it. Absolutely. The mural is beautiful. All the cars are very beautiful. Joe, you know what? For his age, he's fucking beautiful. And I'm seeing Batman. That's happened, alright. I'm seeing... I don't know. Maybe that's gone in 60 seconds. There's a Mustang that's flying through the air. Maybe that's, uh... Maybe that's James Dean's film under a bullet or a bullet. I don't know. We got to Sean Connery, James Bond, a very beautiful rendition of that with the car. That's happened in pinball. I think a Ford and Ferrari mural. I don't think we're going to get that in pinball. We got a Back to the Future we'll talk about. We got a Jordan. I wish Michael Jordan that would happen again. I'm still, you know what? Have you played a Michael Jordan pinball machine? The Data East conversion from what? The Sega Space Jam? No, no, no. The limited 23 units that was made like Richie Rich. No, I have not. I think there's a couple out there. I'd like to play one of those. But all that being said, we do know that here recently, Joe Kaminkow was inducted into the first Queen Op Hall of Fame. So congratulations, Joe Kaminkow. And we know him as the license getter. He gets the big ones. And if a Harry Potter happens, he's probably the one that will get it. Or maybe not. Maybe that'll be, I guess I'm info on that. Maybe another exclusive Patreon for the potential for Harry Potter, because there's some good info there. But here's what I do know, Dennis, about Back to the Future. There are times that I talk to people like legit in the industry, people working for some of these companies. Not just like me. Yes, people that are responsible for discussing licenses with the IP holders. And I have been told that when it comes to the back of the future, here's the problem, everything that people are right, that number one, it is a hellacious price tag for this license to make into a pinball machine, so much so that it blows past any type of building materials that people would think of when it comes to licensing back to the future. Andrew Harden, The only way for you to get the actors, if at all, would be to surpass the most ridiculous price points to get a Michael J. Fox, to get a Christopher Lloyd, to get all of them. So that's the second hurdle is they're not going to sign off on this. I don't know if there's in particular actors. I think it might just might be Michael J. Fox, but I don't know. I mean, Christopher Lloyd was just on Mandalorian. He had an episode. So maybe he might be easier. He may. And then, wow. Yeah. So those are the two that you really, really need. You can get Biff because I think it's Tom Wilson. He's an actor. He's a comedian actor. You can get him. Leah Thompson, maybe a little tougher. But getting the big ones, it's not, it's probably never going to happen. And that kills me. This pleases me. Somebody does have Back to the Future, I'm being told. Now... Back to the Future without any of the cast. I don't know what that means, but someone has wrangled in that dream game license. I wouldn't imagine getting the rights to the movie would be that hard or that expensive. Sure. So... Yeah, you get the Delorean. Yeah No you probably don even get the Delorean You the player are the person traveling through time The ball is Marty You the ball Be the ball Are you too good for your home Be the ball That's being made as well. Alright, so that's Back to the Future. It is happening, or it probably is going to happen. I hear companies pick up these licenses and then don't use them all the time. Damn it! Talking about my other dream theme, which is the Goonies, Many of these listeners, they love the Goonies. Goonies, Back to the Future is so much better picked than the Goonies. After you shit on Back to the Future as a licensed pinball. That's just because it's dated and they already made a game. I don't hate Back to the Future. I don't hate the Goonies as a movie, but it does not hold up. Well, how about Barney Fife as narrating your public factory? Come on, Andy! Shoot the ball! You should only get one ball to represent the one bullet he was allowed to have. I got my one silver ball! Alright. That's so fucking bad. I would probably buy an Andy Griffiths pinball machine. What do you think about that, Aaron? I miss these bitches. Apple Dumpling Gang. Ambie? Is it Ambie? I think it was. Oh my gosh. Okay, the Goonies. So the reason this came up this last week was because when Spooky Pinball gave that little teaser that said Scott Einz, the voiceover, he said, you know, I'm gonna go to the pinball machine. I'm gonna go to the pinball machine. I'm gonna go to the pinball machine. I'm gonna go to the pinball machine. I'm gonna go to the pinball machine. I'm gonna go to the pinball machine. I'm gonna go to the pinball machine. And this came up this last week was because when Spooky Pinball gave that little teaser that said Scott Einz, the voiceover, is he doing more Scooby Doo material or maybe even something for a future game? And people have pointed out that they think the shirt that Scott was wearing during that photo shoot in the recording studio was that of a skull and crossbones of the Goonies logo. Oh my god. Wait a minute. Wait a minute! The conspiracy theories all over again. Yes! Sharkate! You know what's so funny? We were at Pinball Expo and I, oh, can I, I think I can, Scooby Doo, I might have told people this, but Scooby Doo hadn't been announced yet at Chicago Expo and one of the people, I won't say who, one of the people with Spooky Pinball was there, we were hanging out and We're playing a game and they went and they were like damn my leg itches Zach and they went and scratched and they pulled up their pant leg and they were wearing Scooby socks. They gave me a little wink. But the the Goonies, does that mean the Goonies is gonna happen? Here's what I know. How about now? Yeah, very similar to Back to the Future. There's some hurdles. That's why it hasn't happened yet. We do know that Deep Root was said to have the Goonies license. Well, they specifically said hey you guys This is a production of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders, and is not intended to represent the views of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders, or the views of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders. And it was kind of shitty. Oh. Oh. It was, uh... What, like worse than Popeye or what? Yeah, there's like a total coin pusher in the back. Is this a pinball machine? Yes, but it still had a coin pushing feature and I was like... Oh my God. That's horrible. And Jeff was like, well, like, so what they're going for was like the coins of the treasure chest. I'm like, no, Jeff. And he was like, I wish it was better, but no, dude, it kind of does suck. I'm like, no. the reckless In this podcast, we're going to talk about the most popular pinball game of the year, the most popular pinball game of the year, the most popular pinball game of the year, You know what? That might be hard. Kehu Wong, who recently won an Oscar. Oh yeah, because he's now an Academy Award winner. But he seems like a sweet guy. I think you can get Joe Pantoliano. I think he might be dead. Sean Astin, yeah, if you can do a cameo for the Twippies, I think you can get him for a pinball machine. I love Sean Astin. But it's Jeff Cohen that is impossible to get. Yeah, Chunk. Well, he's in the industry, but not as an actor. He is an entertainment lawyer. I've heard he is very, very difficult to work with and a bit of an eccentric fellow. So he doesn't care. He just will not sign off on anything. And Deeproot was going to come out with this game without arguably the most popular... Oh, they were going to do it without him? You had to. Why are you going to do it without Chunk? Why would you do it? The whole side story is him and Sloth. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I don't know what you would do. Mark McChunkface. He's the most iconic character, arguably, maybe aside from Sloth. He's the most iconic character. That's an interesting... Yes, I know. That's a bold move, Cotton. But what do you do? What do you do? You can't... You can't get chunked. It'd be like doing the Andy Griffith Show without Don Knotts. I know that Don Knotts' name isn't the show name, but he was the character everyone remembers. Well, Puny Factory got the voice of him. Somehow. It's Bill Knott. It's his grandson. It's like chat GPT. They're like, it's all AI. It's his voice from other movies and stuff. Yeah. So yeah, Jeff Cohen is the one that's that. And the most recent information that I have is that Jeff Cohen is still will refuse. He will not sign on to the Goonies. The company I was talking to that was pretty close to sealing the deal, and I don't know if Spooky got it, I don't know who, you know, Spooky sounds like they're teasing it, but the company I was talking to said that they would have a hard time pulling the trigger on it because it didn include chunk and they can get chunks to even really do the game and at that point they said no we just we can I think they right So setting aside my own thoughts about Goonies if you don have if you can do it with Chunk you going to be raked over the coals so bad I mean, just think Toy Story 4, Zach. So Goonies would, it'd have to, it'd have to ride almost, almost purely off of its gameplay quality. Because so many people would walk away from agreeing about the license. Now, could they do it like how Highway slash Pinball Brothers did with Alien and not having Sigourney and making it work? Maybe, but people are, when you say Goonies, they're gonna think they're gonna be clips from the movie and you're gonna go in and tell them there will not be a single clip with Chunk? You can't. Like, there won't be a truffle shuffle? People, it just, that's what everyone remembers. It just, it doesn't- You're mom's favorite part of the statue. Yeah, like you just can't do it. You can't do it. You know, you can't. You can't. You can't. But we'll see. We'll see. And when it comes to the third dream theme, a Mario, Super Mario Pinball machine. Now, it's also had a pinball machine before. Gottlieb in the premiere era did two versions. There's the main one, the blue, the blue, what I call the blue game, and then there's a smaller redemption style one in yellow, which actually is a better playing game. Back in the 90s, things were so much more simple though, Dennis. It was. Nintendo wasn't what it is today. And a lot of media and pinball are like, these manufacturers are so stupid, why don't they get Mario? That's a duh, why wouldn't you just get Mario? Well, I'm pretty sure some of these manufacturers understand that getting Mario would be great and it would print money. So maybe, just maybe it's more than their ignorance to the popularity of... They're all just bitter because they were in competition in the Williamstay's video game division and they all pulled a grudge. Oh my god. So, the reason that Super Mario isn't happening, you heard me, isn't happening, eh hell, maybe it could happen. Someday, but currently isn't happening. I was told from somebody in the industry that deals with licensing that they said when it comes to Super Mario, they do license a lot of stuff, Nintendo does. It's not so much that. The problem is that when it comes to something as in-depth as arguably a rival game, it's a game. It's, it's, it is in itself, pinball is a game. Very complex. It requires LCD animation integration. It requires... It has rules. The rules, level, it is a game. So to license the Super Mario franchise, it will never happen because Nintendo has said they're at a point in their company that if they were going to sign off on something like a pinball machine, they would be the ones creating and manufacturing it as they do their console gaming and their gaming titles. It makes sense. They'd establish their own pinball division. I've actually wondered about that. Some of the issue again, I don't know if people have a pro and maybe those can be future Patreon topics for us if you can find out but like people suggesting things like Halo and stuff and I'm like, you know, I don't know if I don't know if Microsoft and these other companies go outside and and let another manufacturer do it do make a game or they end up having to say well we do it but we do it like we'd set up a pinball arm and build them like a Last of Us or an Uncharted for Sony. I don't know. Yeah, I'll look into that and see if we can get some more information for future exclusive podcast content. But I thought it was interesting. And as a follow-up, Nintendo at that point in time had no interest in developing a manufacturing arm for pinball. No, that's the thing. It's not going to make them enough money to be worth doing. Like, what do they do after Mario? Like, they'd have to keep doing pinball, right? Exactly. And there's no history of them with that. I mean, Sega had pinball in their history. Both, of course, people remember when Data East became Sega, but there was also a Sega, like a Sega of Tokyo that made pinball in the 70s for the Japanese market. Oh. Separate company. Yeah. Separate from the one that has continued on as Stern. Interesting. So that's the one company I know of that has that history. Of course, there was the ownership of later on of the, you know, Data East and everything, owning this US made, but those were US-built games. So, anyway. Just so sad though overall because man that it really Mario and Super Mario that is a license really lines up very well to that of pinball. I agree but almost like Scooby-Doo but that just makes the thing the thing for me is the reason why I don't get all hung up on it about like Back to the Future and Goonies and all the rest of this is there are so many good potential licenses. We don't need to get obsessed with not getting our particular one like Dennis. www.instacast.tv Out to the world by Stern Pinball because at the end of the day, while I wasn't gung-ho about the whole Jurassic Park thing because it had nothing really from the film, at least that was fixed in video later by hobbyists. That's my hope. In terms of the motivations, our motivations may vary, like ours as pinball fans in general. But I would say no, it's not wrong to hope that for anything you in particular want, I think it makes a lot of sense for you to in those instances say you want Stern to have it for a variety of potential reasons. Right, because they shoot the best and somebody can tap into that video still. I've generally heard, you know, I know some people will say that they have a particular theme where they'll sometimes say they really hope JJP gets it. And usually the reason for that is they have this view or a vision of all these particular toys that they can't really imagine Stern doing. It's usually just about the toys and nothing else. But the case in point when I brought this up before, but I'll raise it here again. I don't know if I've done it on our show, but I've done it on EGP, is like Godzilla example. So because it was so public, because Spooky was so upset that they were in discussions to try and get Godzilla and then Stern ended up getting the license and they threw Stern out publicly and said that they stole it from us They stole it Precious And then after Godzilla came out and I know this is a little unfair Because Godzilla is the greatest game that Stern has ever made but but talking to people me talking to Godzilla fans because I well I seen a number of the Godzillas I wasn a you know a quote unquote fan of Godzilla asking them would you have rather had the fan the obsessive fans of spooky having Godzilla or are you glad Stern got it I never had anyone say they were they wished spooky had won out It's always been, it's always been, oh, this game definitely, Stern did this game justice. And who knows what we would we have gotten a Halloween, but with Godzilla art. I mean, Spooky's track record on making good games ain't that good. Well, but to be fair, I could broad stroke that and say that I think, I think that anybody would want Stern to make the game. Their, their dream team at this point. John Popadiuk, This is a decent game, every single time out of the gate now. Marvel doesn't make a bad movie. Yep. So and where I, like when I criticized Marvel movies and I enjoy them, it will be, well, you know, it's kind of like a, it's almost like they're all vanilla flavored and it's, we're getting different sprinkles on them, so. That's a really good comparison between Marvel movies and Stern games. Because the formula is really consistent. And so that's where with Stern, like on the design elements, seeing a little bit of a mix up now with, you know, Elwin being relatively new, Jack Danger being extremely new. Well, we've got Guardians of the Galaxy and we also had Thor with the hippie vibe of Ragnarok and we got, you know, the multiverse of Doctor Strange. And that's Marvel also trying to not, like, they don't want... Have different paths in the same lab. It's a fall or die. Yes. And they know that there was a time where superhero movies were not guaranteed bank and you don't want to put all your eggs in this basket assuming that they will always be... They're not making as much as they used to, so is the idea. We recognize that they're actually cutting back on the amount of movies and TV that they're planning to put out per year because they've recognized they're oversaturating. Sure. So with Stern, you've got this sort of baseline level of quality and their baseline is higher than everyone else's baseline. That is their core strength. And it's like, what's the worst game that they've, that Stern's put out recently? It's Bond. It's Bond Cornerstone. Really? And it's because of the launch and the slowness on developing code. For more information, visit www.flippinout.com. The game as it stands could be, and I think it will end up being better respected than it currently is. I don't think Bond will ever be a great game, but I could be wrong. They're not done with it yet. But it's not a bad game. It's not a bad game. Whereas you go into GTF and there are probably a lot of people that are going to say, and it's not done yet either, but I think there are going to be a lot of people that when they're done, they're going to say, this is a bad game. www.invisibility.com In summary, Back to the Future is going to happen. The Goonies may happen and Super Mario Brothers pinball will not happen. And in further summary, Super Mario Brothers could eventually maybe happen if Nintendo decides to build a pinball division someday. So yeah, maybe. Or if we're wrong. Who knows? Goonies could very well happen the moment some company decides, you know what, chunk wasn't really that important. Back to the future when it does happen, we'll have another potato head, Marty McFly. I think, I hope JJP just figures out that, hey, the way that we can make the Goonies happen appropriately is not to pay this guy because he gets royalties and he's got enough money. We've got to feed his ego, so he's going to be a co-designer. Is he enough into pinball? I don't care. It may work. Is he friends with Slash? It may work. Can Eric talk to his friend Slash to talk to his friend about Goonies? We'll have to wait and see. I wonder if Jason Sudeikis listens to the exclusive portion of this video. Jason Sudeikis, can we get you on board to do an SNL pinball machine? We need fucking Ted Lasso pinball machine. No, I don't want Ted Lasso. I want SNL and I want the wizard mode to be the Steven Seagal hosted episode. Oh no. No! Yes. The worst episode in the history of the show. That they never, they never air anymore. They never re-air it. And they never re-aired it, period. It's that bad. It's good stuff. And we must, we must have it. Ladies and gentlemen, thanks. Thanks for the continued Patreon support. And as a reminder, don't be afraid to bump up a level. Make that upgrade today. Please. Or Steven Seagal is going to chop you. He's going to come and... Judo chop you. Break our necks with his ponytail. And then he's going to go back and take our scalps to Putin. What if American Pinball did a Steven Scull game? Would it be, instead of under siege, it'd be under duress? What would it be? Under seagull? I'm trying to imagine their version of on deadly ground. On deadly waters. Oh man, that's bad. That's really bad.

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-15 | Item ID: 5c531195-bc1b-451a-b39e-984ffb0cc10c*