# Episode 102 – Stern, Uh, Finds a Way **Source:** Head2Head Pinball **Type:** podcast_episode **Published:** 2019-07-29 **Duration:** 101m 21s **Beat:** Pinball **URL:** https://www.head2headpinball.com/2019/07/29/episode-102-stern-uh-finds-a-way/ --- ## Analysis Head to Head Pinball hosts Martin and Joe discuss the official reveal of Stern's Jurassic Park pinball machine, designed by Keith Elwin with code by Rick Nagel and art by Johnny Pneumonic. They analyze the playfield layout, mechanical features (moving T-Rex, rotating Jeep, innovative ramps), and three-tier pricing structure (Pro/Premium/LE at 500 units). Discussion covers comparisons to the Data East original, licensing constraints limiting movie clip usage, and the broader industry trend of losing video assets due to cost. ### Key Claims - [HIGH] Keith Elwin designed Jurassic Park pinball with Rick Nagel on code and Johnny Pneumonic on art — _Direct statement: 'this is, it's been confirmed, Keith Elwin's next machine. I believe Rick Nagel might be on code with Keith'_ - [HIGH] Limited Edition production is limited to 500 units — _Feature matrix specification: 'it is limited to 500 machines, which I think Monster Bash was 600, maybe'_ - [HIGH] The T-Rex moves on Premium and LE models but is static on Pro — _Detailed breakdown: 'in the Pro, the T-Rex up on the back left doesn't move... But in the Premium and LE, it does. It actually swallows the ball and then moves left and right'_ - [HIGH] Jurassic Park LE scheduled to ship to Australia in November — _Martin states: 'The LEs are due for shipment in Australia in November'_ - [MEDIUM] Keith Elwin added a post to the upper flipper as a forced design choice to prevent players from ignoring that flipper, inspired by frustration with Iron Maiden early game strategy — _'he put a post there so that if you don't flip that flipper, it's throwing you towards the outlane... apparently that pisses him off so bad' regarding Iron Maiden play patterns_ - [HIGH] No movie clips are included in Jurassic Park due to licensing cost constraints with studios and talent — _Joe: 'You've got to pay the studios for that footage. And there's all sorts of licensing... It's the actors. It's the sound guy... pinball's too itty-bitty... don't sell enough units to be able to possibly afford doing that'_ - [MEDIUM] The Jeep feature rotates to indicate direction progression through the map similar to Roadshow — _'that's telling you where you're progressing through the map... You go top or bottom... like Roadshow'_ - [HIGH] The game features four multiballs: T-Rex, Raptor, Tribal, King of the Island, and Chaos (ranging 3-6 balls) — _Directly from feature discussion: 'you've got T-Rex, Raptor, Tribal... King of the Island and Chaos, and it says ranging from three to six balls'_ ### Notable Quotes > "In Keith we trust. In Keith we trust." > — **Martin**, Early discussion > _Establishes community confidence in Keith Elwin as a designer; becomes repeated refrain_ > "If you didn't have the T-Rex in there people would have been just losing their shit over the fact that that you didn't have a T-Rex and the fact you've got a T-Rex people are losing their shit because you've got a T-Rex and it was in the old machine." > — **Joe**, Mid-discussion > _Captures the paradox of designing licensed IP sequels; community will criticize either choice_ > "He's like, I've spent all this effort making these really exciting shots from that upper right flipper. You're gonna fucking use it." > — **Joe**, Mid-discussion > _Reveals Keith Elwin's intentional design philosophy forcing player engagement with specific shots_ > "I think that easily translates to the rest of us... he's going to go down as one of the best designers ever." > — **Joe**, Early analysis > _Assesses Keith Elwin's trajectory as a legendary pinball designer_ > "Isn't it annoying how much of a genius Keith is and just how he's like he's a god at playing and now he's a god at designing?" > — **Martin**, Mid-discussion > _Expresses community admiration for Elwin's dual mastery of competitive play and design_ > "I think that this is just another perfect example that that is clearly true, and that it's going to be a big problem going forward... the theater of getting to do whatever you want and put these things in your pinball machines, I think, is dead at this point." > — **Martin**, Licensing discussion > _Articulates concern about licensing constraints fundamentally limiting pinball design ambitions going forward_ > "pinball's too itty-bitty, and they don't sell enough units to be able to possibly afford doing that." > — **Joe**, Licensing discussion > _Identifies economic reality constraining pinball manufacturers from accessing premium movie assets_ > "But the only time you're going to see that is for music because music seems to be the one thing that is immune to this because the band still owns everything." > — **Joe**, Licensing discussion > _Distinguishes music licensing (favorable for pinball) from film/actor licensing (prohibitive cost)_ ### Entities | Name | Type | Context | |------|------|---------| | Keith Elwin | person | Legendary Stern pinball designer; designer of Jurassic Park; known for excellent shot layouts and game design; community refers to him as GOAT | | Rick Nagel | person | Code programmer for Jurassic Park pinball, working alongside Keith Elwin | | Johnny Pneumonic | person | Artist for Jurassic Park pinball cabinet and artwork | | Jurassic Park | game | Newly revealed Stern pinball machine; Keith Elwin design; three-tier Pro/Premium/LE pricing; 500-unit LE run; features moving T-Rex, rotating Jeep, innovative ramp designs | | Stern Pinball | company | Major pinball manufacturer; released Jurassic Park; operates three-tier pricing model; dealing with licensing constraints on movie assets | | Data East Jurassic Park | game | Classic 1997 pinball game; comparison point for new Stern version; featured similar thematic elements (T-Rex, raptors, map); had full movie assets | | Iron Maiden | game | Jersey Jack Pinball machine designed by Keith Elwin; inspired design choice in Jurassic Park (forced upper flipper usage via post placement) | | Monster Bash | game | Chicago Gaming Company remake; referenced for Limited Edition production numbers (600 units) and art blade aesthetic; Martin considers replacing his copy with Jurassic Park LE | | The Hobbit | game | Jersey Jack Pinball machine; cited as example of best video asset implementation in pinball with full movie clips; hosts debate if license cost was prohibitive | | Martin Robbins | person | Co-host of Head to Head Pinball Podcast; based in Australia; ordered Jurassic Park LE; passionate about Lord of the Rings pinball | | Joe | person | Co-host/guest on Head to Head Pinball Podcast (referred to as 'Jostradamus'); knowledgeable about game design mechanics and licensing issues | | Wayne Knight | person | Actor (Newman from Seinfeld) potentially providing character callouts for Jurassic Park pinball; speculation about his involvement | | Lord of the Rings | game | Stern pinball machine; Martin's favorite game; mentioned as having perfect theme integration and best-in-class callouts; Martin unable to sell due to collection constraints | | Wizard of Oz | game | Stern pinball machine; referenced in collection discussion; Martin cannot sell to keep space for new machine acquisition | | Mr. Pinball | person | Arcade operator with extensive machine collection; Martin visited location with 20-30 machines stored; has Lord of the Rings variant playfield | ### Topics - **Primary:** Jurassic Park pinball design and mechanics, Keith Elwin's design philosophy and playfield innovation, Stern's three-tier pricing model (Pro/Premium/LE), Movie licensing constraints and loss of video assets in modern pinball - **Secondary:** Comparison to Data East Jurassic Park legacy, Limited Edition features and collector appeal, Game design mechanics: ramps, magnets, multiballs - **Mentioned:** Personal collection management and acquisition decisions ### Sentiment **Positive** (0.78) — Strong enthusiasm for game design and Keith Elwin's work, but tempered concern about licensing constraints limiting creative potential. Hosts express genuine excitement about playfield layout and innovation, but realistic pessimism about the industry's ability to license premium movie assets going forward. ### Signals - **[sentiment_shift]** Positive reception of Jurassic Park despite inevitable Data East comparisons; community criticism of similarity noted as predictable and somewhat exhausting (confidence: medium) — Joe: 'It's not even close to the same... if you didn't have the T-Rex people would be losing their shit... and the fact you've got a T-Rex people are losing their shit' - **[competitive_signal]** Keith Elwin's second consecutive machine (Iron Maiden, then Jurassic Park) positions him as defining designer generation; hosts assess trajectory as legendary status (confidence: medium) — Martin: 'These two in a row, like come on. Crazy.' Joe: 'he's going to go down as one of the best designers ever' - **[design_innovation]** Jurassic Park features novel shot mechanics: loopback/reverse ramps returning to upper flipper, two-ramp convergence design, rotating Jeep mechanic for directional progression (confidence: high) — Hosts identify 'Star Trek: The Next Generation ramp' design and note 'hasn't been done before' with two-ramp merging; Jeep compares to Roadshow directional systems - **[design_philosophy]** Keith Elwin intentionally placed post under upper flipper to force player usage of that flipper shot, preventing passive non-engagement strategy observed on Iron Maiden (confidence: high) — Joe explains: 'he put a post there so that if you don't flip that flipper, it's throwing you towards the outlane' based on Elwin's frustration with Iron Maiden tournament play - **[licensing_signal]** Movie clip assets completely unavailable for Jurassic Park pinball due to studio licensing costs; extends to actor compensation and complex rights negotiations (confidence: high) — Martin: 'pinball's too itty-bitty, and they don't sell enough units to be able to possibly afford doing that'; identified as becoming 'the new normal' for LCD games - **[market_signal]** Hosts express concern that premium movie asset licensing is economically impossible for pinball manufacturers, fundamentally limiting design ambition going forward (confidence: high) — Martin: 'I think that the theater of getting to do whatever you want and put these things in your pinball machines, I think, is dead at this point' - **[product_strategy]** Stern's three-tier model clearly differentiates: Pro has static T-Rex; Premium/LE have moving T-Rex with ball swallow/drop mechanics; LE adds art blades, premium audio, mirrored backglass, exclusive theme (confidence: high) — Detailed feature breakdown showing mechanical differences at each tier; limited to 500 LE units with certificate and numbered plate - **[supply_chain_signal]** Australian LE shipment scheduled for November 2024 (approximately 4 months from July conversation); Pros typically arrive in 2 months, LEs 1 month later, then Premiums (confidence: high) — Martin: 'LEs are due for shipment in Australia in November'; standard rollout sequence documented --- ## Transcript you're listening to the head-to-head people podcast find us on facebook email us at head Welcome everybody to the Head to Head Pinball Podcast. This is episode 102 and my name is Martin and with me... Jostradamus. Is that a new dinosaur? Yeah, well I mean we completely nailed this Jurassic Park thing. Well, we did. So we called it, we knew it was Jurassic Park and it was. Although, I must admit, before the reveal, I'm like, oh, I wonder if we're right or we're wrong, but it's Jurassic Park. So, everybody, big news of the week. Jurassic Park has finally been revealed by Stern. What do we think of it, Joe? It looks awesome. It looks freaking awesome. It really does. In Keith we trust. In Keith we trust. That is absolutely right. So, this is, it's been confirmed, Keith Elwin's next machine. I believe Rick Nagel might be on Code with Keith, because Keith will be very involved in that. And Johnny Crap is on art. So the first thing that I noticed was how much visually it looks like the Data East Jurassic Park. Would you agree? As like art-wise? Yeah. Just art-wise, just presentation-wise. Mainly the play field. Yeah, I mean, it's similar. It looks way better, obviously. But it's, yeah, I think it's stylistically, I could say that it certainly looks that way. It does. And, you know, the first reactions I got from people, you know, looking at the pictures was, oh, you know, it's just Data East. It's just all the same. It's not even close to the same. I don't get where these people come from. Well, I'll tell you. Okay, I'll tell you the similarities, right? You've got the green in the middle, which is kind of a bit of a map or a location of all the dinosaurs. That's the same as Data East. You've got a T-Rex on the back left. You've got a raptor pit, even though it's not in the same location. It's got three flippers. That's just like Data East. Help me out. Is there anything else that's similar? It has a control room, I guess? Correct. It does. There's a Jeep? Is there a Jeep on the Data East one? I don't know. I don't know either. Look, and this is what I like about this, is that it's, you know, it's Jurassic Park, so there's only so many ways that you can take the direction of this. It's always going to have some sort of comparison to the Data East version. It's the same movie. It's not like Jurassic Park, the Data East version. It's not. I mean, if you just take those things you mentioned, like, if you could, like, some of those things, it could be like, oh, it has three flippers. Okay, well, everything's like everything. And it has a map of Jurassic Park. Yeah, because it's on, it's about Jurassic Park. It has a T-Rex. I'm pretty sure that that was the main character in Jurassic Park. And there's raptors. No shit. Yeah. and the thing of it is right if you didn't have the t-rex in there people would have been just losing this shit over the fact that that you didn't have a t-rex and the fact you've got a t-rex people are losing this shit because you've got a t-rex and that was in the old machine it's it's i don't know it's it's an interesting one but it can be quite exhausting um but really what i actually really quite liked about this was the game i guess the gameplay video the promo video they put showing keith playing the game and just i guess this layout really is what we're moving on to because i i oh i just keep looking at the the playfield just thinking how cool these shots are going to be and there are so many shots to go for like so many this is such a packed play field. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and they're all they're all, you can tell that he, like I also agree is he loves I don't know what those shots are called or those type of ramps, those like vertical flip ramps or I don't know what you call those. Yeah, loop back or something or reverse ramps. Ah, yeah, I know. He's got two of them. One is, yeah, and one which is a upper flipper shot, which I don't remember seeing any of them like that before. But I mean, like those type of shots are so satisfying because if you don't hit it strong, it goes up and then it comes back down. You're like, ah, but when it goes, it just, it feels nice. So it's like, he just, obviously, I mean, he's the goat and he clearly knows what he's doing and what he likes in pinball. And I think that, you know, I think that easily translates the rest of us. And I think that like the different shots that he has, how everything changes state. I mean, he's going to be – if things keep on ending, you know, going the way they are with him, he's going to go down as one of the best designers ever. I absolutely agree with you. And again, we're talking about those reverse-y ramps or whatever they are, the loopback ones. And you're right. So there is one that's from the upper right flipper that then goes to that hut type thing. and then there's one to what would normally be a right scoop behind the upper right flipper, which is also one of those which then goes past the helicopter. But the other thing that we've noticed about this as well is something that you had mentioned a while ago as well was the implementation of those up posts that stop the ball so you can then get your shot right. And that's what they've done to the left flipper. so it'll stop there a lot like cactus canyon i think is probably the biggest comparison you've got there where it stops the ball um yeah and i've always wondered why that's never been done again like that just seems like a great mechanic mechanical way to just be like trap and shoot exactly and they haven't just done one they've done for the pro there's three up posts and for the premium and limited edition, there's four. And, you know, we can talk about the differences because people will look at these things saying, oh, there's not a lot of difference between the premium and the LE. Yeah, there is. Sorry, the pro and the premium. Well, there is. When you look at it, you think, okay, they look the same. But there are a couple of main differences that I've noticed. The big one, obviously, is that in the Pro, the T-Rex up on the back left doesn't move. So, sure, okay, it's just there. But in the Premium LE, it does. It actually swallows the ball and then moves left and right and throws the ball out and also has the ability to drop it onto the habitrail as well, which is cool. The other difference as well, in front of the Raptor Pit, which is on the left-hand side of the playfield. The amp suit. On the... It's... Amp suit jackpot! The mini amp suit. Mini amp suit. It's so cool. One of the best callouts. That was from Avatar, just in case people didn't get that. So on the premium in LE, there's actually a target, which kind of looks like one of those crates that they transported the raptors in. That actually raises and lowers and also behind that in the raptor pit you've also got one of those pop-up posts as well so what that's designed to do which is again we're going to draw a comparison which is almost a bit like the um avatar again where you've got the trap the ball what's link the link shot so what actually happens is the ball actually gets stuck behind that post and becomes a newton ball which is kind of cool as well. So that's the extra post there. It's also got, well, the helicopter blades move on the Premium in LA. And also there's also the mosquito in amber on top of the pops on the Premium in LA. Which look cool. They do look cool. And the other post is the control room has a ball. More or less, I think it's just so when you hit it, it holds it for the choreography of the various control modes, I imagine. Yeah, correct. But again, it could be used as a captive ball as well. Well, we don't know how it's going to be used. And one thing I sort of noticed as well is, which goes against, I think, a lot of machines that have come out from Stern recently, there's no real sort of left orbit shot from the bottom right flipper. It's more like a center orbit. Oh, you're the one to the left of the Jeep? Correct. That's what you're referring to? Yeah, correct. So that's cool. So that means that really that upper right flipper has a lot more use than just hitting a bank of targets or, you know, a shot of some kind. But it seems that there's a lot that you can do up there. So let's talk about the Jeep because that's another cool feature as well is that you have got this Jeep that's on. It rotates and there's a couple of Newton balls underneath it. So it either faces left or it faces right. and my understanding is that that's telling you where you're progressing through the map. Yeah, the directions you go a la, you know, Roadshow or something. You can go top or bottom. Let's not talk about Popeye. You know, that's kind of what it is. It's a direction. Or Alice Cooper has that as well. But that looks cool. And that's on all machines as well? Yeah, I'm confused of how that works. quite honestly. I know. Yeah. It's confusing. It'll be explained, I'm sure. Like, is it a... Is it... Do you hit the ball and then it rotates itself? Or are you responsible of hitting the other ball so that it spins it itself? Does the entire thing spin or does it just go left to right? I'm not really sure. It goes left to right. So on the screenshot I'm looking at, most people will look at it, The Newton ball has the other ball to the left of it. So if you were to hit it, it would rotate it clockwise around and stop on the other side and vice versa. So us hitting the ball makes a mechanism move the ball. It's not us having to hit the other ball to move it ourselves. No, that ball will knock the other ball around effectively. So I don't know whether that's making sense. But aren't they attached? No, they're not. No, one of them is attached to the playfield. The other one rotates around. The best way to say that is if you look at the promo video, it shows how that works. It looks really good. Oh, there's a post there. So finally, yeah, I finally, on one of the pictures, now I see that there's a ball that attaches to a post, which is under the Jeep, which you can't see in any of the other stuff. So you hit that, and then it moves. Okay, now I get it. Because the audio pictures just don't. I'm like, what is that? And what does it do? No, I know. You watch the video. The video shows exactly how it works. So the other main feature, I would say, is the ramps. And they look cool as shit. I'll talk about the first one. And let's call it the Star Trek Next Generation ramp. Because that's what everyone's calling it. And that's effectively the right ramp goes to this swirly ramp that then drops the ball back onto the top right flipper. It looks very cool. We love ramps that open up like that. Oh, because of the plunge? Is that the next-gen part of it is because the way that the plunger works? Well, it's actually reversed. So this doesn't plunge like that next-gen. It's more so if you hit the ball up the right ramp, it then comes back around the ramp and loops around clockwise and drops the ball just before the upper right ramp. Yeah, I'm just wondering what the next-gen comparison is, which I assume just must be the way that the ball enters. Oh, literally, okay. So you could say it almost is very Oktoberfest-ish. Well, correct, as well. You could say that. Or I think there was another one as well. Or was it Hook that had one of those as well? Anyway. But the other one, I know, yeah, right. But the other ramp on the left-hand side actually has two ramps that become one. I thought that that was, oh, okay, I gotcha. I thought that that was another return for the right ramp. I didn't realize that that's where the left, I guess that makes sense. I didn't really think and look forward to where the left ramp goes. Yep. I gotcha. there's that so um that's a very cool simple but hasn't been done before i don't believe um why for where the the upper right that does that whatever we're calling the reversi ramp thing comes back onto that i don't know where it gets from the other ramp that comes down maybe there's a an up kicker there i can't say that one anyway um with the left ramp oh you know where it comes It comes from the left ramp, which goes behind the backbox and comes around. Yeah, that's what I thought originally. That right ramp could either divert to the upper flipper or through the back and out that. That's what I originally thought because I know we had talked about how he liked his ramps to change state. So that's why I figured, oh, that's a dual-purpose ramp. Because of hearing him say that, I guess I just jumped to the conclusion that, oh, that's what that means. but yeah we can't see a place that that left ramp would go so that's got to be where that goes which is interesting then because neither of these ramps change state right well kind of because the left ramp does change state because of the T-Rex and how it interacts with the ball as well true at least on the premium yeah yeah and it remains to see whether there's actually a magnet in the pro where it actually will you know kind of like the the trunk on um theater of magic where it actually will magnetize the ball and put it up on the on the end of its mouth and then just drop it i don't know it someone had mentioned there that it could do that we don't know yet but it could be anything um But I guess what I like about what I've seen of this play field so far is the randomness of it. There's so much to shoot for. There's so much rebounding. I don't know. In some ways, you would look at it and say it's a bit of a fan layout from the bottom. But obviously, the top right negates that and says, well, it's not because you've got all this sideways movement as well. but there is just so much to shoot for um and and again one of the things i like is you know going back to that jeep if that jeep is facing right it opens up a shot uh to the left of the right ramp through the pops and there's something at the back there so yeah and there's that stand up on either side you have to yep that you have to move it to get to correct which that would be like a clever place to put the edible or something correct so um i don't know i could literally stare at this for hours um isn't it annoying how much of a genius keith is and just how he's he's he's like he's a god at playing and now he's a god at designing what can this man not do he's he's very good and we are very fortunate to have him designing people machines and right but for your second machine absolutely well done um yeah these two in a row like come on crazy yeah i know it's madness so but so speaking of looking at it let's talk about the three uh packages for the pro premium and limited edition and what i would say really across the board i don't think any of them are terrible if like you know how normally there's there's one that's the standout one that's also good and then one you scratch your head and you go oh that's not quite so good um i think particularly on all three the cabinet art looks great i i i'm staring at all three now and i can't pick which one i think is way ahead of the other i think they're all really good it all comes down to what dinosaurs do you like well correct and in any what sort of scene do you want i guess probably the only one I'm not that fond of, back glass-wise or trans-like, whatever you want, is the Pro, but it's still good. The Premium looks great. The LE, I think, for me, package-wise, looks the best. I love the green trim on it as well. It's probably because I'm getting one. That must be why. That's what I was about to say. Well, we've all heard this before, but I have put my name down on the list for an le because monster sucks no well it's not because monster sucks but now it's just you know one machine's got to go you need to figure out it can't be star trek it can't be wizard of oz and lord of the rings won't pay for it so and you can't sell that well that's right you can't sell that i definitely can't so it's the best game your obsession with Lord of the Rings. Like, you know, like I was streaming last night and I mentioned something about Lord of the Rings and someone mentioned your name. I'm like, really? Who the heck was watching you? Lots of people. Because I was streaming quite late in the night, so a lot of people in the US were waking up and watching, particularly on the East Coast. So, is something that I've missed? Like, you're known for loving Lord of the Rings? I don't know. I mean, I've always said that's my favourite game, so it's very good. But it's the perfect machine. It's the best theme integration, the best call-outs. It's just outside of the art, it's the only thing that keeps it from being perfect. Well, speaking of – I know we're digressing here, but the other day when I was streaming Willy Wonka at Mr. Pinball, I sort of went out to the factory because he's got about another 20, 30 machines just sitting there. And I walked over to his Lord of the Rings and I went, huh, that playfield art looks really different to mine. Mine's very green. This wasn't. This actually had contrasting colours. And I asked around. Was it an LE? No. No, it wasn't. But no, what I've read about it as well is that over the years, because they just kept re-releasing Lord of the Rings over and over, and every time they went for a new run of them or a new batch, they had to get new playfields made up and I believe they went to different suppliers as well, so that's why the art differs on them. Anyway, so we digress there. But anyway, so the story is, yes, I am down for a limited edition Jurassic Park. Whether I get one or not, I don't know. I'm now playing the waiting game for a call to say, yep, you're in. So check back in with us in about two years when it gets to Australia. Well, no, I'll find out whether I'm in probably within the next week. But the LEs are due for shipment in Australia in November. Wow. So that's a long time. Is it to arrive? That's to arrive. I mean, that seems faster than usual. Or is it my expectation? It's July at the moment. I'm not sure whether you know that. But I thought it was like, you know, six months. Well, I guess it's not quite six months, but yeah. No, it usually takes about two months for the pros to arrive, another month later for the limited edition to arrive, and then after that you get the premiums. And the other thing to note about the LA as well, which is, I guess, the differences, and there is a feature matrix that we will put out there as well, but it's also got the inner art blades as well. They look good. they look great because you're trying to create this jungle feel and i think the the art blades on that look great yeah i mean honestly all of the new le packages that they put out that come with with art blades look amazing like the monsters one looks amazing um which i think was is that the first one they started doing this on like the their new trend of putting blades on possible. The first one I remember, at least. I think it's the first one I remember, too, but I don't factually know whether that's the case. Yeah, because it's just because it's the same art, it's the same artist. It just fits. Nothing against all the aftermarket stuff, but it's just like none of that is done by the same artist. So this is completely seamless in transition between the art and everything like that. It just, it looks really nice. They really crush you on the LEs lately. Yeah, I think that too. So here, based on the feature matrix, this is what the LE gets. So it is limited to 500 machines, which I think Munsters was 600, maybe. You get your certificate of authenticity signed by Gary. A designer autographed collectible featuring signature by game designer, Keith Elwin. You get your number plate. mirrored back glass, which looks great. Limited edition exclusive Midnight Battle theme, full colour, high definition decal cabinet, hand-drawn artwork. Artblades. And you get... This is the thing that I really like about the LE that you don't get on the Premium or Pro. That sweet, sweet sound. The sweet, sweet sound. It even looks cool. Yeah, it does. But, I mean, it was one of the things I loved about, you know, the Data East Jurassic Park one I had was when you just start the game and the first thing you hear is the theme song and then someone going, you know, welcome to Jurassic Park. It's like, oh, I'm there. I'm in this world. I love it. The music is really important. So having that upgraded audio is fantastic. You get anti-reflection glass, which is a must these days. You get a shaker motor and you get the green, they call it hunter green. powder coat. So it a great green It a great green So that cool The other thing as well that I seen on this that I haven seen in others as well is that you actually get there is actually a line-out audio connector so you can hook up external speakers as well. Does it? I believe that. I saw someone say that. Okay. Let me see if I can see the cabinet again. Oops, gone the wrong direction. Okay, no, I'm lying. Yeah, I think, yeah, I know you can. Yeah. The other thing as well that people were talking about with, you know, the comparisons is that you've also even got, because I say that there's four multiples. You've got T-Rex, Raptor, Tribal. I love the fact that they're calling it Tribal. Again, that just shows you the homage that they're paying to the original because they can call it multiple now. And they have a sense of humor. Yeah. Correct. Then there's King of the Island and Chaos, and it says ranging from three to six balls. So I would expect, but not be guaranteed, that Chaos works in a similar way to the way it was done on the Data East, which is it's an extension of another ball. You effectively upgrade a three-ball multiball to a six-ball multiball. That would be cool. I can't wait to if you hit the control room and it's not lit yet and he just goes eh eh eh eh eh eh yes I know my biggest question mystery is the fact that he's the only person in the entire game actor from from the movie I'm wondering if he's doing call outs for this well that's what people are speculating so what's his name Wayne Knight is that his name I don't know yeah something like that. He's Newman from Seinfeld. I know that much. Maybe it is. But yeah, here's some of the criticisms that they have. But before we do that, the only other, I forgot to mention this before, the only other addition that the Premium and Ellie has over the Pro is that the Raptor on top of the pit actually moves. So it sort of leaps a little bit as the ball goes in there as well. So that's it. And there's another thing. about... So, you see that post underneath that upper flipper? Yes. Do you know why that's there? Because Keith Elwin hates what people do on his Iron Maiden. And that is a way to stop it from happening. So you know how the early game strategy on that game is you go middle, you don't flip the upper flipper, it comes down, you get control, you do it again, etc. So apparently that pisses him off so bad that he put a post there so that if you don't flip that flipper, it's throwing you towards the out lane. And he's saying, use the freaking flipper. You gotta flip. He's like, I've spent all this I've spent all this effort making these really exciting shots from that upper right flipper. You're gonna fucking use it. He just put that there and just been like fucking flip it. I'm not dealing with this shit again with you guys. just deciding we're not going to use the upper flippers. Apparently, it really, really bothered him in the first competitions he watched where everyone was doing that. He was just like, that's bullshit. What are people doing? I don't want people doing that. So there you go. There's a post there because people are like, oh, it's to protect the bottom of the flipper. Nope. If you notice where it's located, it's clearly located frontal enough that if you do not flip, that is flying towards the left out lane. It is bouncing it away. Yeah, when I heard that, I loved every second of it. I'm like, that's right. Good. I thought that was hilarious. It's very good. Well, that's good. I was looking at it, and I actually didn't realize until you just said it that that's what it's there for. And I knew that there was a reason for it. They don't do these things by accident. Like, all of a sudden, a post appears where it's never been before. So that makes sense. I wonder then if it then enables you to do – because it's the – You could probably – no. I'm just trying to work whether you can – I just want to say whether you could somehow stage it. Trap a ball there and have the bottom flippers do it. I'm just trying to work out when you stage which flipper goes up. Yeah, that's right. You could actually knock that down and just use the bottom flippers and have a ball stuck there. but I think it's going to... Yeah, if you somehow get it underneath it and you drop it to hold it, I suppose. Good luck with that. Would that be a skill trap? I believe we can check with Josh Robb if that would be allowed. It could be. So let's talk about what... I guess the feedback that people have had of what they don't like about the machine, if we do. And there's really... It's one thing that people have said. We don't know. we don't know what is coming with this game. But the one thing that people said is there are no clips from the movie. Yeah, because like I've said in the past, and my biggest worry with the greatness of going to this LCD system is that you are going to lose licensing, and you're going to lose assets and the ability to use assets from these things. And I think that this is just another perfect example that that is clearly true, and that it's going to be a big problem going forward with anything with an LCD of using any assets from movies or anything like that. And this is just a perfect example. You've got to pay the studios for that footage. And there's all sorts of licensing that come with that. It's not just the studio. It's the actors. It's the sound guy. It's anyone that's put any effort into that particular scene. they've all got to be factored into it. I was going to say compensated, but they've all got to be factored into the licensing agreement when it comes to using that footage. Yep. And pinball's too itty-bitty, and they don't sell enough units to be able to possibly afford doing that. Yeah. So this is more or less, I think, is going to be, sadly, the new normal going forward. It's not sadly because, obviously, you can make it, and it can still be great. see Deadpool or whatever like that. But if you're really into the theme and you want to see clips from the movie or you want to hear voice from your favorite characters, you want to hear Jeff Goldblum or something, that isn't going to happen anymore, I don't think. And I think the only time you're going to see that is for music because music seems to be the one thing that is immune to this because the band still owns everything. So if the band wants it, the band will do it. and they'll give you whatever the hell they want if they're into it. So it seems outside of that, I think the theater of getting to do whatever you want and put these things in your pinball machines, I think, is dead at this point. Yep. Yep. And, you know, for me, this is just my personal opinion, having had arguably, what I reckon is arguably, the best use of video assets in a pinball machine. Which one do you reckon I'm going to say? The best use of video assets in a pinball machine ever. Is it an LCD system or is it DMD? No, LCD. Best video assets. I don't know, Wizard of Oz? Nope. Because they've only got little tiny clips. True. It's Hobbit. Let's see. It's Hobbit, right? Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? I blocked that out of my mind. I know. Obviously, yeah. That's why I was sort of chuckling as I was saying it. Because if you think about any of the mini wizard modes, Into the Fire has just got... All of them. Even the modes. All of them. Yes. That is true. I don't know how they... They must have paid out the ass for that. Right. They probably did. And as great as it is. and it really adds to the atmosphere of the game. And in particular on that one, the sound on The Hobbit, the sound package is exceptional. It is. When Smaug is booming at you and all the... It is fantastic. But do you need it? Do you need the video assets on that game to improve the game? I don't know what I'm saying. I mean, I guess you don't need it, but I mean, if you're into it because you love those movies, it makes a huge difference. Like, the emotional connection you have to something is completely connected to those scenes, those voices, that music, et cetera. Where, yeah, you can reproduce it as an animation or something like that, but it's going to be alien to you and it's not going to be the same. So, I mean, yeah, I think so. But, I mean, it's a little hard with that one because, you know, there's issues in other places. But I mean, if you had the same system and the same assets and a make-believe land where that was a Lord of the Rings game, like, fuck yeah. It would be hard to picture without it. Like, if you had that, say The Hobbit was Lord of the Rings, and you had all the assets from all the movies in a similar fashion, and then you then looked at the old one, you'd go, well, what is that? you know so it's like it by a comparison like that i think that it's it's it's it's huge but i mean it's but it's just it's out of the control of there's nothing that like people like well they're not negotiating or they're not you know they don't have the right people talking to them to get these assets i think it's completely out of the control from out of these companies it's a numbers thing and it just doesn't work anymore also so what i did see was and this was on the Stern Facebook page, there was just this little, I don't know, it was almost like a little three to four second clip of the goat. Now, I'm talking about the actual goat from the movie. Keith Elwin. Not goat. The Keith Elwin, the goat. This is going to get very confusing when we talk about goats when it comes to Jurassic Park. At least we know it's not Tom Brady. Right. I don't know who that is. Sports bar. I'm sure he was, was he one of the Brady kids? yes how do you know there you go that's how I know so this little four second clip it's the scene if you remember where they put a goat out and then the T-Rex comes and eats it right it's the one or the times they various show it where it's not eating it and you just know it's right that's right because it's escaped and that whole scene is animated apparently this is what i read is that that's actually animation they have recreated just that little scene via animation so there's a way of getting around it yes but i mean it's still if you say if you put the two next to each other there's going to be an obvious that it's you know but but like yeah you can reanimate something but you're not going to be able to reproduce it'll be animation of dinosaurs but it's not gonna be the end like it's not gonna look like the dinosaurs because they probably can't get close get close to depicting them the same like so they still have to take you know which i i mean like the like the jeep like that's not the jeep from jurassic park i don't know if they were even allowed to make the jeep from jurassic park so late yeah i mean you have no idea of what like you know they might be like they could make something and make it close to blank, but then they're going to be like, well, that looks like the raptor, so you need to pay us for that raptor. Right. So it's like, ugh. So this is the whole thing, right? So in some movies you just think, yep, whatever, it would be nice to have them. But when I think about Jurassic Park, and just so everybody knows, Jurassic Park is one of my all-time favorite movies, right? It is very precious to me. So, when I think about some of the... Everything comes back to Lord of the Rings. So, for example, let's say you drain the ball. What's the animation that you would want to see when you drain the ball? Well, for me, T-Rex coming down on the guy on the toilet and eating him. That would be awesome, right? Another one is Timmy getting electrified on the fence. You know, you want those scenes. or the raptors coming into the kitchen, right? When the kids are there and they think it's a reflection and bang, it hits it up. Well, apparently they're reproducing that. You can't reproduce those because it is so much harder to reproduce humans than it is animals and dinosaurs. I swear that I saw someone somewhere said something about like a wizard mode is like raptors in the kitchen. or something. Well, so, yep. But that's literally just going to be Raptors in a kitchen and you're probably running for them. It's not going to be like, you're not going to see the kids or anything to do with that scene. So it's like, yes, I understand that there's Raptors in the kitchen and it's in a very different looking kitchen. So yes, I can, that makes me think of the movie, but you know, I don't know. I don't know what, like at what point, how much you can trick people into being like, see, look, it's a kitchen. It's not that kitchen, but doesn't it make you think of the kitchen? Like, you know or it's a fence or they'll show like a girl come off the fence and be like see it's not timmy it's not it's not tabitha so you know i it'd be it's gonna be interesting to see of what because i have to admit i have to assume that they can only get so close to reproducing it before they get nabbed for making it too close. Yeah, they could easily reproduce scenes and just make it not look like the actor. But everyone, it's very obvious that it is the actor. But it doesn't look like him. It's just another dude in the same exact outfit. At which point they'd probably be like, nah, you can't do that. Like, we get that you're trying to, like, not pay us for that, but too bad. Anyway, who knows? Look, all we've seen so far is the images of the machines, the feature matrix um we've also seen a um a bit of the the rules framework as well which looks really interesting i don't know if you saw that card the rules card and you know it shows that you get jurassic perks which is a very very clever play on words punny ah it is so um Anyway, for me, absolutely sold. And I did, I put my money, well, not my money down, but I put my expression of interest after seeing something. You know what I mean? Like rather than, I think Iron Maiden, I had said, put me down when they announced that it was Iron Maiden. This time I wanted to see whether I would like the actual gameplay and I do. I think they have done very well here. Yep. And, I mean, it's just one of those things. It's just that if you have the money, if you're one of those people who can buy whatever you want, I hear Keith Elwin makes a game, I buy that game. At which point, I don't care. I mean, I don't like Iron Maiden. There's nothing about that theme that does anything for me. But I would own it for the... You know, if I could, I would own it just for the game. I'd put different music in it, but... It's just that it shoots good, and I think that this is – I'm way more interested in this game than I am in Iron Maiden. I think that the layout is – I don't know, there's something about this layout that just interests me more. Not that Iron Maiden's bad, but, I mean, there's so many different things going on with this, and I'm a sucker for an amp suit. Well, I guess that's really – We all know pinball is very subjective. There's people who have said, no, don't want it, hate the theme. Okay, great, you hate Jurassic Park. Cool. I'm not going to be able to change that, nor do I want to change that. But for me, I freaking love the theme. So therefore, the machine is going to have a greater connection to me than other people that don't get the theme. Yeah, but they've spent all that time going online to tell you that. Boo, Jurassic Park. Oh, funny. So, look, the only other thing I saw as well is that there's actually one of... Because there's been no... I haven't seen any word on whether there's a topper and whether it's going to come out before the Star Wars topper. It's going to be awesome. And yes, it will come out before the Star Wars topper. It will. It will. But there's a shooter knob. Did you see it? Yeah. Amber. Yeah, it's the mosquito in amber and it lights up. So it's actually illuminated. yeah I'm not going to get it super cool it's cool but I mean at least it's functional because there's a lot of those cool toppers that are completely non-functional and need to get off of any game I have to play in competition like have you seen the Jackie head for Aerosmith no it's literally Jackie that's the character's name right no Jack yeah it's Jack's head Jack in the Box yeah and it's the shooter lane and it's and it's just like, it's literally his headdress, and the only way you can even skillfully plunge it at all is you have to put your thumb underneath his chin. It's just the most awkward thing ever. You need to look it up, because it's just ridiculous. Chuck has it on his. I just want to rip it off. It looks cool, but it's just like, it's one of those things that just shouldn't exist. Yeah, fair enough. have we spoken enough about Jurassic Park so dinosaurs am I right so there you go can I play it yet is it Monday yet no so do you reckon it will be at Pimberg they said it's not going to be at Pimberg really yeah I told you that you'll get to play it we get to play that's true I get to tell you about how jealous you're going to be. I'm going to tell you it's shit and you're going to cancel your order. I'm like, psych. So maybe I will get to play it. Oh, we're doing this right now? God, you're so bad at keeping secrets. What secret are you talking about? I don't want to say it. Anyway, I'm so looking forward to seeing you next week. Anyway, let's move on. Yeah. Me too. It's going to be so cool. That was really funny because we saw it. Today on Facebook, it came up. Our friendversary is today. Literally a year ago today was when we became Facebook friends. So that would have been Pimberg last year, wouldn't it? Yeah, I think so. Very funny. Yeah, and that's why we taped today. Yeah, exactly. Not because I was in the hospital, because this was the day we were supposed to do it. Yeah. Hospital is awesome. Yeah. This is great. So, next thing we want to talk about is... Are we going to record at Pemberg? Yes. Oh, if I was going, we would. Well, I'm going to be there, so I'm going to have to do it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'm fucking going to Pinberg, everybody. Just get over it. I'm going to Pinberg. Completely fucked that up. Mrs. Pin, no one tell Mrs. Pin. You understand me? No one tell Mrs. Pin. I'm trying to surprise Mrs. Pin. We will find you and break your kneecaps if you tell her. We will fuck you up if you tell Mrs. Pin. And that includes you, Christian. Yes. But to be honest, I only knew I was going to Pinberg three days ago. yeah but I knew four days ago you knew four days ago because I was I might be going I came to you and said you realize you have a ticket right you still registered you and four other people messaged me and went um you're still on the list what does that mean and at the time it was like oh I just didn't cancel it because you know I don't respect them so i am very very excited about coming to pimbo so there's yeah this time you're not gonna fucking skip out of drinks with me well you you really are unable to get past that are you no no because you spent you pick it up every time i do that's right well lyman was there and everything like what the what and the pins the next day none of them you around for And, oh, you know, anyway, that's what happened. We will make up for it. But if you remember last year, the big problem I had was I went back to Mrs. Pinn and Dr. Pinn's room and drank gin till God knows what hour. Got fucked up. And then got fucked up the next day. So I don't know. Anyway, I really only have one goal this year, and that is to finish higher than you. No, we're talking. again. I don't care where I come, as long as it's higher. It'd be nice for me to qualify. That'd be nice. That's my goal, is to qualify. Qualify what? In A? In A, yeah. Well, I'm restricted to A, obviously, but I've never... I don't think I've ever qualified in Pimberg, ever. Oh, you mean qualify top 40 for the finals? Make finals, yeah. It's just... I'm not good at that format, so I just gotta... I'm gonna make it work. I'm gonna figure it out. yeah i look last year i was hoping to just qualify in b division so i'm assuming i mean you were pretty good in the group that i played you in and you at least you played the same as me so i mean i assume you've gotten better in a year so oh i wouldn't be assuming any of that no expectations that is something you should not be assuming who knows it's it's you know let's see how we go on the day i'll assume and just make an ass out of you and not me oh nice yeah well yeah she makes an ass out of you and your ass so well my ass is pretty big it'd be hard to leave that out let's move on let's move on to do we even have anything to move on to we do we've actually got we've got we've got an interview coming up but before we get to that interview let's talk about pin sound pins make sound okay yeah so pin sound is a board that you can put on your machine and effectively you can enhance the sounds of your machines which is very cool experience with that which one did you use uh i haven't done it but chuck webster has he did that on his uh guns and roses so it actually sounds good and has some guns and roses in it So it's pretty cool. So and then I think I not sure if he uses it but he also has a Nugent that has sound stuff in it that he took like sound clips from Steve Ritchie and put in and greatly improved the game But also I think there some music in there which greatly decreased the game. But, you know, it's pretty cool. I've heard that you can do it with, like, Tron and stuff like that and put, like, the full soundtrack in there and some other shit. Yes, and people have done that. The one I've experienced has also been Guns N' Roses, and it makes a huge difference to have just those really good songs in high-quality sound. So, Pinsound. Better sell them, guys. Better sell them. You're going to get a better version later this year. Presumably. I don't know. Well, so back when I had my roller games, I was actually tempted to get the Pinsound for my roller games. Yeah, exactly. You could put in some nice roller skating music. Yeah. Something like that. I don't know. Such a cool sound. Anyway, so what they've actually now released. Now, when it comes to this stuff, I'm such a noob when it comes to explaining this, but I'm going to try and explain this as best I can. So effectively what they've done is they've released, let's call it an interactive shaker motor. Okay? Ready? Pins down, shake it. Okay, here we go. But here's what happens. So you can actually synchronize it now to a lot of different things, right? It comes with a control board. You can have it trigger from certain sounds or things. But the very cool thing that you can now do is it's actually got an output, meaning you can now hook it up to external devices like, you know, one of those rotating lights that you get on Getaway, right? So you could put a siren light up the top and it can now activate. Or you can do a smoke machine or horns. even, or a fan. Like, you know, you've got the fan on Whirlwind. You can hook it up to a fan. It does. So, it's very cool because it now just opens up you to explore other things that you can enhance your people machine with, not just increase sound. You could get a fart machine. I don't know why you would do that. There's got to be a theme that that works in Because you have an Austin Powers. Right, yes, of course. Well, you've also got fart mode in Family Guy. Yes. You can vomit and so many bodily functions in that game. Unlimited. So it's very cool. And so I'll put the link up there to Pinsound so people can read about it and it'll actually probably make more sense when people actually... Am I giving one away in another raffle? Oh, wait. come on come on pin sound come on you gotta give a we we gotta give some swag some swag away i don't know but it's it's you can pre-order them now they're due for shipping in september it looks freaking cool so there you go i'm just doing that and which then links into the interview that we're about to go to oh yeah here we go so um and you'll you'll hear me talk about it in the interview. So we're actually going to talk now to Mark Hauser. He is from Pinball Mix. And you know what? I could explain it now, but how about we just go to the interview? Yeah, I got a lot of questions. No, you don't. So is he on the other line? Is that how this works? No, I'm confused. You didn't make the interview. I waited. Oh, how rude. Okay, fine. You go talk to him. I'll just save the good questions for myself. Cool. All right. Here it is. Mark, how are you? Hello. Greetings from the Great Way North. So what's really interesting is that, you know, Mark from Pinball Mix got in touch with us, you know, in the last couple of weeks. And what was really interesting is that I'd heard of Pinball Mix. I knew what it was about, but I'd heard of it probably about two months after I actually needed it. So what I'd like to do, Mark, if you can, is explain what Pinball Mix is, and then I'll tell you why I needed it. You're saying there was a missed opportunity here? Yeah. Where did you hear about Pinball Mix? I've seen it around on Facebook. I believe you also sponsor Bro, Do You Even Talk Pinball as well, so I know that they've given you a call out as well. and that was when I sort of looked it up and realized that I could have used it and could have saved a pinball machine in my collection. But you tell me what Pinball Mix is all about. Fair enough. You got me curious. Yeah. Yes. So Pinball Mix, it's a service. It's a mod, kind of. It's a mod service. Yeah. It's true. it's all of those things yeah a lot of people have been asking me how how would you explain pinball mix and it takes a little bit of time to explain but the short end of it is you get to put your music that you really like into your machine and i am well aware that uh there are opportunities for people to do that themselves and a lot of people do and i fully support everyone who's doing that and giving to the community and I totally understand it. What I am providing is a service for people who have never tried before and are intimidated by trying to do this, for people who don't have the time at all, for people who want to take advantage of the, I don't know, like 500 plus hours of time that I put into. I know it's insane. We all do really crazy things for pinball. That's how this started. Actually, if you want to know how pinball mix started, I just started doing my own machines and I started doing a lot of mixes for a lot of machines. And people were telling me, you know, Mark, have you thought about offering this to other people? And, and, and, and so I did a couple of favors for friends. And, and then I got to the point where people were saying like, look, you know, some people might actually, you know, they can't do it or don't have the time we really want some of this and uh so i did approach i approached uh no what am i saying no i did something else that bro caught and then they contacted me and asked how i would feel about you know doing something with them and uh and then they put they put the collective soul mix for metallica up which was interesting i was like give me a machine that you want me to do and that was the first one i'm like oh god oh god what are people going to think about collective soul and metallica this is not your best foot forward but we did it we did it and it was well it's what people want though right but that's i guess that's the part of this service right yes that's exactly it oh there you go i've said service i would say this service but um it's it's actually allowing people to personalize their machines for them now let me explain to you, going back to what I said before about how I could have used this service. So everybody knows that I had an Iron Maiden Limited Edition and I loved the machine except for one thing. And it's obviously the music. And I was a big Maiden fan. We're talking many, many years ago, sort of like, you know, 82, 83. It was a phase I went through. So really, it turns out that I really only liked three of their songs and some of the other songs just grated on me, like so grated on me, right? So I, you know what, here we go. Here's the best advertising you're going to get for your product right now from me because, I'll tell you why. Because I thought, okay, I am going to change this music and I was going to change it to all my, I love electronic music, but I didn't want to put electronic music into Maiden. and I was going to put rock music into Maiden, but it was going to be all my favourite rock music, right? So I downloaded Pinball Browser, right, which is what everybody does, and then went, okay, I'm going to replace all the music. And I just looked at how much music needs to be changed and how much editing needs to be done to get tracks to fit all those different spots because there would be sections where they play... You edit, don't you? I do. I could do it. I could do it. Technically, I have the skills to do it, but everybody knows I lack patience for just about anything. And what I realized with Iron Maiden is there are so many sections where you need to replace the music and there are some where it's the whole song as is, But then it's the song, but it's got the bass filtered out. So you've got to replace that as well. So I literally looked at that and went, there's no way. I could not be bothered doing this. So I didn't do it. And I then ended up selling my maiden, right? But if there was a service that I knew of back then where I could say, hey, here are my favorite songs. Can you do this for me? Then maybe I would have kept it. So what you're saying is you're shopping for another maiden. well or or jurassic park but like i don't blame you now now it's Keith Elwin but with you know the theme that everyone can can enjoy that that game looks awesome sorry i just like i saw some of it today it's it's ridiculous it does look awesome so so that's that's effectively what you do you would say okay martin give me all your favorite songs and then yes a period of time will go by and it comes back to me. And what I'm curious is that it would come back to me in an ISO and I will then just install that ISO. Like I did my Star Trek, so I've got a limited edition Star Trek, and somebody did the movie soundtrack to it, so replaced all the audio, the music with the movie soundtrack. And all I had to do was just install an ISO like I normally would, but it's just got the new sounds. Is that how it gets presented back? Like I would get an ISO file? Yeah, so you want to know a little bit how the process works? Yeah, for sure. I'll try and lay it out for you. So I get people's music. They're interested. And I usually ask for about 20 to 30 songs. Depends because every project is different. A Star Wars machine has got 40 requests in it for music, whereas Aerosmith might have 10 or just over. So each project is case by case. I always ask for extra music because rather than try and fit square pegs into circles, is that the expression? Yeah, sure. Thank you. There you go. I actually like having a lot of music to work with. So I've had people actually ask to put, I want this song in this mode, this song in this mode, this. And I've done that. And it has worked. but most of the people that hire me uh they actually ask uh maybe two or three uh possible modes or multi balls and the rest they they leave up to uh to my experience and so that's that's the mixing uh i spend a lot of time making sure that all the loops are really tight and that everything flows nicely. Believe it or not, I actually like I'll even watch video of some of these machines and make sure that the modes match the mood, everything. I'm a pinball player. So like it's really important that everything gels and that you're getting kind of a heightened experience, not maybe for everyone. Like when I joked about the collective soul mix, you know, one person might get really riled up about it and another person not. So it's very personal. And that's what Pinball Mix is offering is something very personal to each person that hires me to do a mix for them. I had seen this around for a while. So a good friend of the show, Neil McRae. Yeah. So he has a disco maiden and I didn't realize that that was your work. That is. And actually, just to throw it right out there um neil's really nice i asked him and uh he's allowing me to use it as a demonstration at uh replay effects this year oh so you're going to be there at replay effects and pinberg yes yes awesome actually both you're right i'm i'm actually competing in pinberg as well really oh awesome kind of crazy going back and forth but but uh done pinberg for the last six or seven years and there's no way I'd drop that. Pretty stoked about next week and first time showing this kind of to the world at a big show. Yeah, awesome. So talk me then through, as a real life example, so someone's come to you and said I want disco songs in Iron Maiden, which sounds crazy to begin with. Were you given free reign with the selections of songs to just put them wherever you wanted or was there some direction from Neil? So that's a perfect example. Neil started with a complete list of songs matched to modes, and they were all great when I looked at them. And then there were a few in the mix that, as much as they sound conceptually like they're a good match, they just didn't fit the pacing of a mode or what have you. And so that's part of the Pinball Mix service as well, is the overall back and forth. I've gotten that comment back from many people that I've worked for where they're telling me, look, man, it's great. Half the fun is just chatting and throwing ideas back and forth and collaborating. It is a collaboration. I do all the editing. I do all the hard work. But there's a lot of creativity that comes from both sides of this equation. So is it just music or can you do some of the other sound effects as well? Yes. I say that because when you think about it, we've talked to a lot of really good sound people as well from the industry. And something I often bring up is it's not just the music. You've got to balance the sound effects with music. And some of the sound effects might just be a random, I don't know, just a sound. But some of them actually have a pitch. And that pitch also needs to match what's going on as well. Yes, yes, yes. I have changed the levels of sound effects. I've even swapped out sound effects. There's one guy who actually got me on his Tron to throw in a bunch of RoboWar in there. He really, really likes RoboWar. Sure. I haven't had the chance to hear yet. I'm dying to hear it because I've only heard it from my end, but I haven't heard it in an actual physical machine yet. But he's really enjoyed that. The possibilities are endless. The big question is always on time. I've had requests about changing entire call-out packages. I dabbled in that a little bit once personally and yeah it's no sweat off my back to change three or four call outs for like something fun and even maybe a bit more and charge a little bit more or whatever but for complete packages that's a you're hiring me for like a month or more like it's it's a big big big deal well that yeah okay well that's what I was really going to ask is is how long would it take for you and I guess it's one of you know how long is the piece of string because they're all going to vary depending on what needs to be done but this isn't something that happens within an hour you've got to spend some time on it so uh like being completely like open about it um my average at least i that's what i i like i budget for is 10 hours to do a mix shit okay often i'll put a little bit more than that in there i mean when i started out it was a lot more than 10 hours to do a complete uh mix i think the first one I did was X-Men. And you just keep going back at the wheel and everything. Whereas now, I'm just familiar enough with it that I can work at a decent pace. And I mean, yeah, there are hiccups along the way. There are new machines that I haven't worked on where you discover stuff you never would have thought of. I mean, Metallica is a really good example. When I first took that one on the uh the loops at the beginning were were taken directly from each song and i found that very awkward because you don't have the opportunity to build your own loop for when you launch the ball um so i had to be kind of creative with where i started each song um to make sure that it wouldn't be that noticeable uh that that all of a sudden there's this jarring loop for just stepping up to play the machine because that can throw you off right off the bat and and you know you want to be having a good experience with your machine right i'm then curious to know how far back can you go with with machines like obviously it works really well with stir machines because you've got people browser um dmds even back to solid states can you change sounds in solid states so i have not yet. I know that there are some later solid states that you can change sound with pinball browser, not pinball browser, sorry, pin sound. And I have done work on pin sound. It really is machine by machine. And if someone's interested, they can contact me and I can let them know if it's within my set to work on or not. But it's a definite possibility. And I've had some really good results with pin sound. The only drawback there compared to hiring me to do a mix with a Sam or a spike machine is that the person would have to also purchase the pin sound board, which I highly recommend that board sounds amazing. Um, and as a great way to upgrade one of your older machines. And once you've got one and, and, uh, if, if you're getting frustrated with, uh, getting it going and it's not sounding like you really hope for um i'm definitely a person to get in touch with well one of the things we actually we talked earlier on the on this podcast before we got you on was um you know pin sound with its new sort of interactive um shaker which then can also be hooked up to external devices so you could then have certain songs that can trigger physical things like light shows and stuff like that. I've just started to read up on that a little bit. I actually have been under a bubble mixing, and it's good that you bring that to my attention. I'm very curious to learn more about it and what the possibilities are, because I'm a fan of the board. Basically, if you've got something that can trigger a certain event, you can hook that event up to something external, be it rotating lights or a horn sound or a fan, even, you know, or a smoke machine, right? So it just opens up possibilities. So for you that are now thinking about events that you can create via sound, you can then have visual cues as well. So again, just adds to what you're doing. The evolution, yeah. It really is. And so from a personal point of view, because you really are, this is what I would find interesting is if someone said hey i would like you to put these songs in a machine and it's just songs that you can't stand how would that feel for you hey that's that's the way it goes i mean everybody is entitled to like and what they like and uh like actually um when disco maiden first got announced i wasn't sure like it sounded awesome the idea at first sounds amazing and then you see some of the music and you go, how could you do this? How could you do this to Iron Maiden? Iron Maiden, it's Iron Maiden. You know, like Keith's toes are curling or something. Right. Yes, yes. I think that was the point of it. But at what point is it a joke and what point is it worth making, right? Well, it probably started out as a joke and then the final product just went, hang on, this is actually a lot of fun. You know what? I saw the stream that Neil put up and unfortunately there were some sound issues on that stream. I got a chance to demo it here in Montreal. I just checked it out in an actual machine and a couple of friends, and there's a reason why I'm bringing it to ReplayFX. I don't know what it is. I can't explain it. The concept of it just pisses people off. It's going to step inside a flame or something. But, man, I'm telling you, don't knock it until you try it. Don't knock it until you try it. What's been your favorite sound package so far? Well, we're kind of talking about it, but I've really enjoyed working on Star Wars as well. Star Wars is a lot of fun. What did you do with that one? So I've done a couple of things. I mean, early on, I have a Star Wars, and early on I did a mix of just music that I like, and it's not necessarily for everyone. and eventually a mix was made that changed to a very familiar soundtrack and it sounds like what Star Wars should sound like. The point of this is it's what the person wants to enhance their pinball experience, right? Exactly. And you know what? You're not alone on the Iron Maiden thing. I've done a bunch of them. People love the way it shoots and not everybody is an Iron Maiden fan. Yeah, I reckon Black Knight would be another one as well. I say that only because the music in that is just relentless. Well, it's really heavy and that is interesting to a percentage of people who play pinball, not to everybody. What I would recommend, those people that are going to replay FX, come and see Mark, because it's also about having a discussion with you about what sort of advice you would give people on how to make a mix work. Oh, yeah, I'm always open for a conversation. So specifically about the tent, there'll be an Iron Maiden there and people will be able to check out Disco Maiden. There'll be four other mixes as well. And two of them are not announced yet, are not mixes that anybody has ever even heard before. but they are of artists or bands that uh that have people have been asking for a little bit on uh on pin side and and elsewhere uh so if you're curious and you just want to know what else i've bastardized iron maiden with um you might you might be you might be pleasantly surprised you might it might be worth stopping and checking out there'll basically be a schedule throughout the four-day period where you can come back and forth and try Iron Maiden again and hear it with different music just to see the versatility. That's all. Maybe Keith will come over. That would be wonderful. And I'm looking forward to playing Jurassic Park too. Well, I think we all are as well. I'd love to be there for that. All right. Thanks, Mark. Thanks very much for coming on. And everybody, get down to ReplayFX and say hi to Mark and talk about enhancing your people with music. I love it. Not a problem. It was a pleasure. You guys are great. Thanks. All right, so Joe, based on that interview, what did you learn from that? That I was not a part of it. Not a part of it nor have you heard it yet No no Because I not in it so why would I listen to that It doesn make any sense Exactly Something about pinball and mixing and sound Correct So, again, it's one of those cool things where for noobs like me that either lack the patience or the technical skill to change the music in my machine, there's now somebody that will do that for me. So, you know, we'll link it in the show notes. And as he said, he will be at Pinberg, which we all now know I'm going to be there. So, you know, whatever. So go and check him out. Go and say hello to Mark. He's a great guy. The only other thing I just – this is a bit of an update that came on the Deadflip stream when they were doing the Game of Thrones with the code. Dwight said – Let me tell you about that last week. Well, we didn't mention this bit. The Ghostbusters part of it? Yeah. Well, yeah, just that Dwight did actually say that, you know, obviously the update is in the works. they've taken off the glass, gone through the game, made a long list of stuff they're working on. He's very excited about the update and it's going to come at some point in the future. And he said, the point he made was, if you thought that the Game of Thrones update was huge, the Ghostbusters update will be even bigger. Because there's way more to fix because that game is hot garbage. It's, you know, it's, I don't know. Ghostbusters in a way has kind of grown on me I mean I still hate the flipper gap I still hate the fact that the ball jumps over the outlanes I hate all that stuff but I really like the layout and I'm okay with the rules I'm just okay with the rules I'm not hating on the rules like everybody but I can just see that there's so much more you could be doing with that what I hope doesn't happen so it's yeah you still don't love it no i just again i just hope they don't make it was it because i know it is at the moment effectively if you happen to get your multipliers then game over you break the game it's just like i mean i played it today and it was just like i watched a game where one person won literally just because they played video mode congratulations to that person i've seen that happen hi stacy yep and then like the the game i played there's it's just such weird stuff happened that I didn't know like one thing that was really aggravating is so I got into I think it was we kicked its ass or whatever and it got into a weird way I was in the middle of the mode nothing was lit on the play field I'm like what am I supposed to be doing I'm like the only thing that's there is Slimer I hit it like four times alright cool what am I supposed to do now I don't understand I got into a multiball lasted through the multiball and then just I drop on a multiball and it's like here it is I'm like why what was the ending what did I do to progress this to this point I had no idea what had happened and then earlier I freaking got I missed and accidentally hit the captive ball because don't you know you're not supposed to hit captive balls and the stupid Scolari brothers came up and the left one fucking wouldn't go down it was blocking the ramp which I'm in the middle of a mode which mind you is counting down and both of those shots are blocked by that stupid target and I don't need to explain to anybody how much of a kick in the nuts it is if your mode time's out on that game. So I'm frantically trying to get this stupid target down. I hit it dead to nuts four times and it was just like... Dead to nuts. I was like, what the fuck? And the last time I hit it, hit it right down the middle. I'm like, I hate this game. This game is stupid. And I hate those stupid little targets. And it was just like... And I had... And then the other thing is like after that multiball ended, I got into looping supers. I got 24. 24 looping supers. Do you know how much that was worth? 24, mind you. It should be worth quite a bit because it goes up a million each shot, doesn't it? Isn't it like... It was like 200 million. Yeah. Yeah. 200 million for 24 supers. Yep. So I can... It's one of those things you feel so amazing doing. It's just, I don't know, like, you're doing it, and you feel like a god, because it's like, super, super, and, like, those things were worth, like, nothing, comparatively to the rest of the game, where, like, any of the modes was worth more than any of that stuff I did. It's just, like, ugh. Just weird. But that's kind of, it's kind of what I've started to really appreciate with that game is, and like a lot of games, depending on where you are in the game, if you just want a bit of safety, go for multiball. You're not necessarily going to get a huge amount of points, but at least it'll progress your game. But if you go for modes... Well, I know, but if you then just go for modes and you can nail your shots, then you can get really big points. The problem with that game is, if you miss your shots, you've got the outlines and you've got that big flipper gap that you've always got to constantly be recovering. And if you time out a mode, okay, have fun getting back into another one. Yeah, you hit the slimer. Yeah, I know. I know. Anyway, fix it, guys. It's coming. It's coming and I think everybody will rejoice. It's going to be huge. It's going to be huge. It's huge. Alright, so, Joe, shall we tip the top 100? We could. Okay, Google, pick a number between 1 and 100. Okay. All right. 81. Flash Gordon. All the way down. Oh. Okay. Well, it's not going to be a long review of this. Oh, thanks, Pinside, for not having a single – oh, here we go. Fine. I'm like, where are the pictures of the play field? Thank you, Pinside. I don't even need pictures of Flash Gordon I played this game so much when it came out in fact we had one of these machines at my school so there's that look at you I had pinball machines at school yeah we did so Australian so what do you know about Flash Gordon locally that have one Chuck had one, my other friend Brian has one and JR has one, so I've played a ton of it. Okay, cool. So this came out when all the multi-level playfields were all the rage for a year or two. So it has an upper playfield with ramps that go up. It's got an upper flipper to some targets up there. It's got inline targets on the right. It's got a bank on the left. And what it's got, probably more than most machines at this time, is the ability to drain like no other fucking machine. Yeah. Flash. I'm done playing now. So if you were going to get this in a tournament, how would you blow this motherfucker up? No one blows this game up. It blows you. What? That was on purpose. All right. I mean, the main thing is just make sure that, which another, it's tons of people just noobs at the game do this all the time, is hard plunge. This is bad. Don't do it. Don't hard plunge. Because most of the time, if you hard plunge, you're going to miss the upper flipper. And guess what happens if you don't flip that upper flipper? It goes down to metal. Yeah. So you kind of want a soft plunge. You just want it barely to come around that turnaround so you can get a nice shot with the upper flipper and hopefully you hit the blinking drop target. If not, just hit them. It's not that important. But, I mean, once you're down in the lower playfield, you have a couple options. You can go for the bonus multipliers on the right, which obviously do what they just said they do. They multiply your bonus, which, you know, some people just go and do that right away, which I don't know. It doesn't... If you've got no bonus, there's no point. Yeah, and if they're dangerous, which they are, maybe play the game a little bit more first. I don't know. So that's one thing you can do. Extra balls over there. It's not on, so don't worry about it. The left bank. So if you complete that bank once, it will light the left spinner. If you complete that bank a second time, it will light the other spinners, and then you'll have both spinners. and most of the time the flippers are pretty strong on this game. I know Pappas is obviously very strong. So that probably is the strategy you should do, most likely, because if it's going to be mean to everybody and say you're going to be allowed to have 10 flips or something like that, you probably want to get paid decently for it. So the spinners are the way to go for there. Other weird things that just might happen while you're doing it. So say you're going bonus multipliers, you get the bonus multipliers, you get your 2x, 3x, which obviously the first one is not worth an x, but the other ones are. And then your 4x is up in the upper play field where you have to hit the drop targets up there. That's how you get your 4x. And that's how you max out your bonus multiplier. And then the other weird thing with the game is that so there's these little lights all over the play field. And if you happen to get all the lights, which means you have to get both inlanes, which, good luck hitting those on purpose, and then the right sand, there's two stand-ups that give you lights, and then the drop targets give you lights, and those, there's always two blinking at any given time. They strobe back and forth, back and forth. So you're going to have to hit those drops down when they're lit to get those lights. But if you get all those lights and all the other lights, you will lock in a 100k bonus in the middle of your playfield which is super hard to do but if you do it obviously that's very valuable does it carry over? no but at which point you decide to focus on that I don't know if you have just an in lane lit I don't know if you can shats on this game I've never tried to do that but maybe you can but if it's upper runs or drops we're very shatsable yeah but these outlanes are so nasty i'd be scared they are so nasty it really as i'm trying to say it is it is such a brutal game that particularly the outlanes they're just death and that's why that's because those things are ungodly higher than the outlanes i know i know um and it's also that's why we're sort of talking about the the in lane the multipliers great if you can get it but chances are the ball will dribble out down towards the right out lane, hit the top of the sling, and then just go out. That's just what it does. Oh, bye-bye. Yep, exactly. That's what it does. Cool, I did that. I have three X bonus times what's – oh, three? Excellent. That was worth a decision. I'm so glad I did that. So you've really got to pick your time. So really what it is, it's play the play field, get your drops down, and go crazy with spinners. and you're increasing your bonus by proxy effectively. Just as the ball hits around, you will increase your bonus. And I remember, because I remember back in the day when I played it, it was back when it was the ball comes, you flip it away and just hope to keep the ball alive. But when I was at InDisc a couple of years ago, it came up in Classics and I was like I was on ball two and I'd done nothing. And I just spoke to the guy next to me and I said, I don't know how to play this. What do I do? And he's like, drop targets, spinner. So that's all I did, and I won. So it's a good spinner game. And the other thing as well, because what you can actually do, if you like... Bonus collect. That's right. Well, yeah. So if you've got both spinners lit, what you actually do from the right flipper is you hit it up the left ramp, and this is the only time I would say this, that you could do this. Hit it up the left ramp. Don't flip up the top. This is a bad idea, people. don't do this it's not it is you've got it you've got to you've got to test you're going to test this out in um when you're doing a warm-up but but basically what you can do is you can get the left spinner and the right spinner all in one hit and because it's coming down so fast it will more likely go to the right flipper as opposed to just catching and then going all over the place yeah versus like the hard plunge i mean that sounds clever and neat but it sounds like a terrible blind here. It won me the game. So, that's what happened. So, all I can give you are the facts. I guess I'll have to try that next time I play one. Yep. So, that's the point. The point is, you're lucky to get more than 10 shots on this game, and if you do, well done, but make them count. Yeah. And there's that ramp in the middle that feeds into the pop bumpers, alternates, so if you you plunge the ball, you shoot for those drop targets, it goes in the scoop, it's going to go down. The next time you go up, it's going to go up. So that goes back and forth. There's a double and triple multiplier for the play field. Honestly, I don't remember how the hell you light that. Do you? No. You get 15 seconds and this really annoying sound. It's like... But it's just... You light it and you get it from the middle scoop, but I don't overly remember how you get it. Maybe it's the upper drops. Maybe it's completing every arrow up top. I can't think of anything else it would be. I'm looking at the flyer and it says, jump aboard my rocket sled and challenge Mingo City? I don't know if that's a thing. If we attack Mingo's forces with great skill, we will have 15 seconds to multiply all playfield scores. Completing lit upper drop targets qualifies for two times all scores, and completing lower left drop targets qualifies for three times all scores. to start the clock we must enter the palace saucer wow look at that i nailed it so targets and source it it's got to be the targets like completing the lights in front of the targets because i swear i haven't completed them once lit the spinner and found myself with 2x scoring ready but maybe i'm i gotta go i gotta go with ming city so yeah i mean we can't be wrong well so there you go. So if you've got, let's say you've got three times play field and you've got your spinners lit and you rip them, that's some big points right there. Yeah. Super rippy. Super rippy. Also, another thing is that also, I believe that after you get, you get your three X, you go up top, you get your four X. I believe that lights, there's a standup up there that also can collect your bonus. That I think lights after you collect the four X versus having to go up and above the upper flipper and down into the shooter lane. We looked at another picture and I remember that. Danger past my palace. Guard drop target and you will light the lane to collect the bottom level bonus. Ah, so the other one's how you collect the upper level bonus. Has that stand up? Sure. Upper level bonus. Bottom level bonus. It's always best to have multiple levels of bonus. It's just It's important to keep the ball in play. I cannot state that enough. So if you trap the ball, just hold it. How challenging this game is. You'll win. Just hold it. Yep. And you hold it for 30 seconds and go, well, at least I got a 30-second ball time. So there's that. So there you go. This is Flash Gold. It's a fun game. I actually quite like it because I do like punishing games. But this one in particular is very punishing. So there you go. what else did you get up to this week in pinball joe pinball specifically today yeah how'd you go the uh ice ice arcade and uh for the second week in a row because i was there for pin masters last week um this was like a cookout tournament that uh was originally supposed to be like a best game tournament, but it was really bad timing and also way more work than he realized. I had to explain to him that that format is very hard to run. So it was switched to just a fair play knockout tournament. Yeah, and I won. I got a nice trophy with Vanilla Ice eating some meat, which everyone should have. for sure it was fun, I had some in the tournament and between, I played Black Knight twice, both times I got to fight the Black Knight which is both the first times I've ever done that before the first time I got in it I was like, yeah, this is cool I shot him, immediately died, there's no ball save I was like, that's anti-climatic that sucked, and then later that ball, I also lit the new wizard mode for the second completion of Knight also couldn't get that. That was cool. Second time around, it did much better. And so I got to play the new code on that. It was a really interesting new mechanics and stuff that they added to the game, like of being able to hit the flail to increase your mode value before you actually get into the mode, which is pretty cool. There's a lot of cool stuff in there. Timmy is awesome. You've done well. Let's see what else. That's all right, but people keep telling me that. Just the way that they're enhancing Black Knight is making it a great machine now. Yeah, and I've always thought it was a really good machine, and it just keeps getting better. I get to play a lot of Game of Thrones and the new code. Still really like it. Heard some new call-outs that are definitely new. Does it change much how you actually play in the game now? Yeah, I don't play Martell anymore. Right, okay. What house did you pick? I was going Lannister. I was trying the Lannister strategy, and it worked. I mean, I played like four or five games on it before the tournament started. It didn't work for any of those games. But then when I played it for realsies, it did work. And I more or less was able to buy the multipliers. My strategy was pretty much I play Zac Stark before I do Blackwater or anything, beat Zac Stark, get a sword, light Greyjoy, get multiball, play Greyjoy and Lannister during multiball, get that 3x playfield, and hopefully don't suck. but because like the well none of the times i got in blackwater i never got to the super because i guess having an edible is important but um the first time i did it my entire that was my entire purpose i was just gonna do that thing that was my that was my thing and i put up i didn't get to a super and my lannister was like 450 my gray joy was like 500 something and i ended like 1.3 billion and i literally did nothing else besides just that black water with those two modes and the black water wasn't really that good either obviously but i was just like wow okay that can be a thing so so it's a an interesting way of playing so it has breathed new life into the game. Is that what I'm hearing? Oh, definitely. And I think that at this point, I haven't played many of them, but I think that all of the houses are viable now. And it just comes down to kind of what the strategy is that you want to use. If you're good at using the action button for a ball save, Baratheon's great for you, because you can just boop, lore light, there it is. If you can predict that it's going over there, you can get your ball back. I think that's going to be a popular choice in tournaments where the ball saves off. And also, the drops on the left now progress you towards wall instead of having to go up top. So that's also... And it's also, you get like... You only complete that a couple times and you get right into a wall. Not that wall is, you know, the bee's knees of that game, but it's still a multiball. So, I mean, and then the ability for Zac Stark to kill a mode where you can just quickly get the hand of the king. There's a lot of cool stuff in there now. I'm looking forward to being able to play a premium at some point. Yeah, so it was like a 10-strike tournament, and it came down to the last game, the other two people I was with had nines, I had a seven. So if I had choked in this game, it could have come down to a single game, which whoever won, won, which I was not looking forward to. And we were playing Guardians. Chris won his first ball, put up like $600 million. I'm like, yeah, that's nice. and then my ball I think I missed orb like twice and died immediately my next ball same thing, couldn't get orb this is depressing, I think it was like 6 million going into ball 3 and I was able to play Groot, play orb twice complete 4 modes get to cherry bomb and I put up an 850 million cherry bomb and I ended up winning and that's how the tournament ended. But at that point, I was super stressed because I'm like, if I, after two balls, I'm like, I am going to choke this away, aren't I? Yep, yes I am. But thankfully, I was able to come through on ball three. It's such a good collection. They'll play there whenever he allows it. Well, speaking of great collections, so I'm just looking now at the list of machines that have been released for Pimberg. Now, they don't change that much, if we're really honest, because it's effectively all their machines. But there is a Game of Thrones premium in one of the banks. So you would have that. This is the bank. You would have Game of Thrones premium. The EM is Miss O. I have no idea what that is. The late solid state early DMD is Big Guns. And the early solid state is Cheetah. Okay. Two of those games are good. what i'm loving what i'm loving again this year is that there are two rolling stones oh yeah oh i it's an unpopular opinion but i kind of liked it when i played it minus the rolling stones part i could be without that yeah make a mistake and then just the music so here are the two banks that it's in the first one is um so rolling stones the em game is called Do we have the names of these banks? Did they name them this year? Mini Zag? No, this one's just called 30. This one's 40. They might have a name. Mini Zag is the EM. Never heard of it. Hurricane is the solid state. Really? I like that game. Really? I've never played it, but I've heard it's awful. No. Tell you why I like it, because I can play it and others don't necessarily play it so well. the early solid state is Solar Fire the other bank that it's in is number 72 which is Rolling Stones Target Pool is the EM game Fish Tales one of our favourites Pinball Lizard _(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_ --- *Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 67962cdc-2f60-4b99-9cff-51d8229eeec9*