# Dirty Pool Podcast - Ep18 - Organizing Pinball Expo with Rob Berk **Source:** Dirtypool Pinball **Type:** video **Published:** 2025-09-24 **Duration:** 66m 19s **Beat:** Pinball **URL:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuiUnjk38js --- ## Analysis Rob Burke, founder and 41-year operator of Pinball Expo, discusses the event's origins, growth, and current state. Starting in 1985 with 100 attendees in 10,000 sq ft to honor pinball designers, the show has expanded to 100,000 sq ft with 50+ homebrew games, 100+ speakers, and international attendance. Burke holds the Guinness World Record for pinball machine collection (1,150 machines) and emphasizes Expo's role as a platform for community, education, and celebrating the industry's heritage. ### Key Claims - [HIGH] Pinball Expo started in 1985 with approximately 100 attendees — _Rob Burke directly states founding year and first-year attendance_ - [HIGH] Rob Burke holds a Guinness World Record for pinball machine collection; current count is approximately 1,150 machines — _Rob Burke confirms record status and provides specific number_ - [HIGH] Pinball Expo operates in 100,000 square feet at current venue — _Rob Burke directly states venue size_ - [HIGH] Over 50 homebrew games expected at 2025 Expo (up from 40 prior year) — _Rob Burke provides specific count comparison_ - [HIGH] Marco Specialties securing a 70x80 foot booth with pinball parts supermarket — _Rob Burke confirms Marco's booth commitment after three years of requests_ - [HIGH] Expo continued during COVID with virtual seminars from Rob's home basement — _Rob Burke describes pandemic-year operations_ - [MEDIUM] Joe Kaminkow spent one million dollars of his own money to produce the Beatles pinball machine — _Rob Burke attributing claim to Joe Kaminkow; not independently verified_ - [HIGH] Pinball Expo will feature 100+ speakers at 2025 show — _Rob Burke states speaker count_ ### Notable Quotes > "My whole dream initially was to honor to recognize my heroes who were the pinball designers and artists because let's face it wouldn't it be cool to meet the guy who built the game?" > — **Rob Burke**, ~3:40 > _Explains founding philosophy of Expo—honoring industry creators_ > "These four guys are responsible for designing over 600 machines... Everyone stood and applauded. And what was special for me is several of the guys had tears in their eyes. They've never been recognized." > — **Rob Burke**, ~5:30 > _Demonstrates emotional impact of recognition on pioneering designers_ > "The show keeps growing in personality and different things we do. We were the first. So I'm proud to say that the idea came from me." > — **Rob Burke**, ~9:30 > _Reflects on Expo's legacy and distinction as first pinball collector convention_ > "If you sold the show, do you think the show's feelings would be hurt? Like I feel like Pinball Expo itself has its own like idea. It's got its soul, right?" > — **Jeff Dodson (Dirty Pool host)**, ~10:45 > _Highlights Expo's identity as independent entity beyond its founder_ > "Pinball is a universal loved universal language among everybody." > — **Rob Burke**, ~16:00 > _Captures community-building philosophy underlying Expo's international appeal_ > "The passion is what makes the show. I go overboard in many aspects to make it good for the attendees. It's all about the attendees." > — **Rob Burke**, ~10:15 > _Articulates operator's commitment to attendee experience_ > "Pinball Expo: the everything for everyone show to emphasize I don't care what level of interest you are, there'll be something there for you." > — **Rob Burke**, ~15:00 > _Describes Expo's inclusive positioning_ ### Entities | Name | Type | Context | |------|------|---------| | Rob Burke | person | Founder and 41-year operator of Pinball Expo; Guinness World Record holder for largest pinball machine collection (1,150 machines); based in Warrenton, Ohio area; owner of Pastimes arcade in hometown | | Pinball Expo | event | Annual pinball collector convention founded 1985; now in 41st year; operates in 100,000 sq ft venue; features 100+ seminars, 50+ homebrew machines, international vendors; primary platform for honoring industry designers and creators | | Jeff Dodson | person | Host of Dirty Pool Podcast; interviewed Rob Burke for episode 18; pinball enthusiast and content creator | | Marco Specialties | company | Pinball parts distributor; securing 70x80 ft booth at 2025 Expo for 'pinball parts supermarket' with discounted discontinued products; represented by Emoto Har at event | | Emoto Har | person | Marco Specialties representative; instrumental in organizing homebrew village and parts supermarket at Pinball Expo; community organizer and event coordinator | | Aaron Davis | person | Founder of Fast Pinball; advocate for homebrew community; promotes Expo and Fast Pinball system on West Coast | | Alvin Gottlieb | person | Owner of D. Gottlieb & Company; first guest speaker at inaugural 1985 Pinball Expo; gave 3-hour seminar on company history | | Steve Kordek | person | Legendary Williams pinball designer; one of four honored designers at first Expo (along with Harvey Heiss, Norm Clark, Wayne Neyens); recognized for designing 600+ machines | | Harvey Heiss | person | Pinball designer for Genco; one of four pioneering designers honored at inaugural Expo | | Norm Clark | person | Pinball designer for Barry/Bally; one of four pioneering designers honored at inaugural Expo | | Wayne Neyens | person | Pinball designer for Gottlieb; one of four pioneering designers honored at inaugural Expo | | Silver Ball Chronicles | person | Steve Young's publication; Pinball Collectors Quarterly was primary marketing channel for 1985 Expo announcement before internet era | | Joe Kaminkow | person | Data East co-founder (with Gary Stern); founder of Kapow production company; spent reportedly $1M of own money to produce Beatles pinball; speaking at 2025 Expo | | Gary Stern | person | Co-founder of Data East with Joe Kaminkow; will present seminar with Kaminkow on early Data East years at 2025 Expo | | Stern Pinball | company | Chicago-based manufacturer; major supporter of Expo; 40th anniversary booth was 80x80 ft | | Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Chicago-based manufacturer; major supporter of Expo; supports event logistics | | Jake Danzig | person | Homebrew advocate; promotes Expo and homebrew community | | Home Pin | company | International pinball manufacturer; represented at Expo by distributor Nitro Pinball; bringing Blues Brothers game to show | | Bitronic | company | Spanish pinball manufacturer; games represented at Expo through Nitro Pinball distributor | | Nitro Pinball | person | Distributor for Home Pin and Bitronic; bringing international games to 2025 Expo | | Cathara Guitars | company | Canadian company making guitars from used pinball playfields; vendor at 2025 Expo; sold guitar to Ed Robertson of Barenaked Ladies | | Pastimes Arcade | company | Rob Burke's arcade in hometown featuring 600 games; will have booth at Expo showcasing 1930s-1960s game evolution | | TADEG (T-A-D-E-G-T) | person | French homebrew designer; shipping 'The Invaders' homebrew game to Expo for first-time display | ### Topics - **Primary:** Pinball Expo history and founding philosophy, Honoring and recognizing pinball designers and creators, Expo growth, venue expansion, and event scale, Homebrew pinball community integration at Expo, Seminars and educational programming - **Secondary:** International pinball community and vendors, Rob Burke's pinball collection and Guinness record, Community safety and zero-tolerance policy ### Sentiment **Positive** (0.88) — Rob Burke expresses deep passion and pride for Expo's legacy and community impact. Jeff Dodson is enthusiastic and supportive throughout. Conversation reflects mutual respect, nostalgia for pinball history, and optimism about event's continued growth. Only minor note: brief mention of potential security concern regarding podcaster conflict, but quickly addressed with commitment to safety. ### Signals - **[business_signal]** International homebrew/independent manufacturers (Home Pin, Bitronic, TADEG) gaining platform and distribution access at Expo (confidence: high) — Rob Burke describes partnerships with Nitro Pinball distributor and TADEG shipping game to show - **[event_signal]** 1930s pinball tournament planned at Expo with setup curated by community specialist 'Cliff'; themed speakeasy environment (confidence: high) — Rob Burke describes Cliff's 1930s booth setup and upcoming tournament - **[event_signal]** Pinball Expo 2025 expanding to 100,000 sq ft with 50+ homebrew games, 100+ speakers, and record international vendor participation (confidence: high) — Rob Burke confirms venue size, homebrew count, speaker count, and international representation - **[sentiment_shift]** Expo positioned as universal gathering space transcending language, geography, and collector/player/operator divides (confidence: high) — Rob Burke emphasizes international attendance, friendship-building, and 'everything for everyone' ethos - **[community_signal]** Expo maintaining continuous operations for 41 years under same founder with consistent focus on community engagement and positive experience (confidence: high) — Rob Burke emphasizes passion, attendee experience, and zero-tolerance safety policy - **[event_signal]** Pastimes Arcade booth showcasing 1930s-1960s pinball game evolution; Rob Burke promoting historical game appreciation and lineage education (confidence: high) — Rob Burke describes booth with games from multiple decades to show industry evolution - **[event_signal]** Marco Specialties committing to largest booth ever (70x80 ft) with 'pinball parts supermarket' after three years of negotiation (confidence: high) — Rob Burke states: 'Finally, they lost their mind. They are getting a booth 70 foot by 80 foot.' - **[community_signal]** Joe Kaminkow presenting seminar at Expo on Data East early years alongside Gary Stern (confidence: high) — Rob Burke confirms Kaminkow will speak on Beatles game production and Data East history --- ## Transcript What's going on everybody? Welcome to I think this is number 18, episode 18 of the Dirty Pool podcast. Uh today I'm talking with somewhat of a of a famous pinball legend. Uh, it's the original creator of Pinball Expo. He is in the Guinness Book of World Records for having the most pinball machines, although I don't know if that still stand. Is that still a current record? It's a current record, but the number has been increased. Oh, look at that. Even more. Uh, everybody, it's Rob Burke. Rob Burke runs Pinball Expo and we're going to talk about that today. How are you doing, Rob? Doing good. I uh rushed to get here and thanks to the wonderful Jeff, he allowed me to get here a little late, but um glad to be here and then we can talk till midnight if you want. Sweet. We're going to this is going to be the first 7 to 10 hour long uh podcast. Uh strap in everybody. Think about it, Jeff. You'll be you'll be in the longest podcast. Yeah, that's true. I don't know if I don't know if 7 hours is going to do that. We might be in for the long haul. We might have to do this for a couple of weeks. Someone will have to Google and look that up. Um, so, uh, you know, I forgot to pull up my chat here. It's gonna totally tank the whole thing. Uh, Pinball Expo 2025. We're looking at how many years running now? I believe the first one was 1985. Is that correct? That's correct. You know, uh, the reason I wanted to do Expo was um, you know, we had a little pinball club I went to. I'm in a town called Waro Ohio near Youngstown, but there was a pinball group out of Akan, Ohio, which I joined the group and once a month we would meet at someone else's home and nor the guys would have at least one machine in the collection and we just talk pinball. But um one of the meetings I said, wouldn't it be cool to have a national pinball collector's convention? And uh you know there there was some lukewarm response to it. But um I took that initial thought and then you know expanded it. But my whole dream initially was to honor to recognize my heroes who were the pinball designers and artists because let's face it uh chef even for yourself you play pinball but wouldn't it be cool to meet the guy who built the game? Absolutely. back back then in the in the ' 80s, you know, 70s and 80s and the only names we ever got was through the the books that and there's a half a dozen books out Roger Sharp and his book was out and some others but we didn't know these guys. Norm Clark, Steve Cord, these are names I just never heard of before, but these are all the premier designers at the time. And um I reached out to Alvin Gotaut to start and I actually drove to I I flew to his home in Chicago and I said I want to meet you about an idea I have. He says come on down. So Alvin Golib, the owner of D. Got I assume the guy live a mansion, you know, with with the with the uh the lions on both sides of the entrance and the whole big deal. I mean, every building should have two lions on either side of it to get into it. A very simple, modest home. So, we came in and and I told him my dream and he said, "You know what? You got so much passion. How can I say no? I I'll do it." And what I asked him to do if he'd be my guest speaker for the banquet. So, slow but I put the whole idea together. And at the time, I used um a guy by the name of Bill Kurts. He was involved with expo with pinball. at the time he was more of a an author. He wrote a book along with uh some other people on pinball and he did a couple of arcading arcade books as well. And about six months into planning, I hooked up with Mike Pesac, who at the time worked for fun games, an arcade chain in our area. And uh he head up the vendors area. So we had a team of three and we pulled it off. And I remember at the banquet Elvin spoke the history of DGA and that seminar last and his talk lasted three hours. I it was unbelievable. I don't that's a long time squirming around in their seats, you know. Oh my gosh, when does that guy stop? But uh it was very informative. But to me the best part was honoring the designers. And the time I had four guys come up. Harvey Heis who worked design for Genko. He was still living in his 80s at the time. Steve Cord was Williams, Norm Clark with Barry, and Wayne Neyens was the goblin. And they stood and I said, "Ladies and gentlemen, these four guys are responsible for designing over 600 machines." Sure. Well, me, everyone stood and applauded. And what was special for me is several of the guys had tears in their eyes. I mean, they they've never been recognized. You know, when you work for a corporation, you know, all all the big shots get all the accolades and the the worker they're just their employees, but I made sure that these employees got the uh accolades they deserve. And uh it went over quite well and I was quite pleased. So, I hear you. This is like the same reason that I wanted to do the podcast is to try to give a face to people that are just underappreciated or maybe not even known. Pinball in general has like kind of a a facade of mystery behind it, right? you know, these these machines are complex and it takes it's huge teams to make them, but uh you know, they come out and it's more about the game than the people, which is fine, but uh you know, kudos to you for creating even a platform for people to even be available to see this, especially back then. Without the internet, how do you even let people know that a pinball expo is a thing, you know? Great question. So, at the time, there was a guy by the name of Steve Young. You know, you know Steve, he's got the silver ball. What's he called? Silver ball. is but he had a publication called Pinball Collectors Quarterly and that was the only way of reaching out to the masses. So we advertised in there you know we're going to have a pinball show and the first year in 1985 we had we hit about 100 people that came to the show. Wow that's impressive. I you know I guess that was big the full admission package just to give you an idea was $25. But um we we recognized everybody. The show went up well. And as far as I'm concerned, it was a one and done. And then about six months into the next year, we I started getting phone calls, went to the next show. I said, "Well, there ain't no next show. We're done." They Oh, no. This was too much fun. You got to do one more. So, I did one more and I we we had a toast and and recognized Steve Cordex. So, I had all all the people from the industry recognize him and and give their accolades and stories about him. So then I was officially done. I'm already God. So, you know, here we are 41. It's just amazing. But the show keeps growing in personality and different things we do. Um, but think about this. Uh, Jeff, there's so many shows out today. Well, we were the first. So, um, you know, I'm proud to say that the idea came from me and, um, you know, it's still going just the fact that the same promoter has been with the same show. You know, Texas, they've they've been around for quite a while, but you know, they're have their second um, promoter that's running that show now, but Sure. Talking about TPF for people who aren't aware of this. Yeah. Yeah. So, same guy doing the same show for 41 years. It's pretty nuts. But you know, uh, sometimes I think to myself, I wonder if I would ever sell the show, but the thing is what stops me is no one would have the passion that I do. I do the show. If you sold the show, do you think the show's feelings would be hurt? Like I feel like Pinball Expo itself has its own like idea. It's like it's got its soul, right? The show itself is a living entity now. Yep, it is. But, you know, it's the passion is what makes the show. You know, I I go overboard in many aspects to make it good for the for the attendees. It's all about the attendees. So So 40 years ago, there were no vendors, right? And we're talking about this was mostly just a talking heads opportunity to meet designers and and to like you said to give some faces to the to the community of pinball that didn't exist then, right? When did the show start to incorporate kind of like people that were making makers in the industry? Yeah, show one we had some artists. So one we had vengeance and what because I knew uh Alvin Gotland you know by speaking to him he got to come because I know I knew Norm Clark he got B to come Williams. So then I went down the game plan and said hey man these three guys are coming. Well I guess we're going to come too but I was a complete stranger. I was a nobody in the industry. No one knew me. I was a complete outsider. Just Just an enthusiast. So um he was so crazy back then. But we had all these major manufacturers showing their latest game and then we had the average guy selling used equipment next to them. So it was it was a crazy crazy mishmash of everything you could think of. But people had a good time. It was um it was a hard insmart and uh it worked out quite well. We were pleased. And now but let's talk venue size. I mean, how many square footage of the the current Pinball Expo looks absolutely enormous in terms of uh floor space? So, the the first show had maybe 10,000 square feet and then we moved four different times. It was the fifth time that we moved, but most recently the last hotel we we had about 25,000 square ft. So then when I came to this new venue, um I started thinking in a big way and right now we are in 100,000 square feet. That's impressive. Yeah. 10,000 is nothing to slouch at for a first show, but my lord, it just shows how far the expo's grown in the last 40 years. 40 years to do it. But yeah. So, is this a actual 40? Was there a year skipped or are we looking at the 40th kind of pinball expo anniversary? Well, for this is our 41st year, but you know, we kept the show going even through co. So, it was all you video of course and all from the basement of my home, but we had seminars going on. I had people um linked in through the internet and uh we never stopped. We never stopped. We kept having a show even though it wasn't live for you for that one year. But um it just shows how much people that love pinball were willing to kind of just like push through even even times like you know COVID where things were not exactly ideal for mass gatherings of people on any circumstance. Yeah. Don't you dare get together. Yeah. Right. Yep. But uh we did it and uh we're still doing it and we're having a good time. You know, it's uh to me the most satisfaction just having people smile and say, "Hey man, thanks. Great show." And to me, Jeff is just bringing in the international people. You know, I don't know any shows that that bring in the international people to the extent that we do. Um so we got we got a few people that are shouting out directly to you saying thanks so much. They're really looking forward to uh coming to Expo this year. And there's, it's funny, the reason I mention that is some of them are streamers, some of them are arcades themselves, and some of them are just individuals. And kind of one of the questions I have for you is there's so many different types of individuals that are involved in Pinball Expo. How do you make sure that there's something for everybody, whether it be tournament players, collectors, people that just want to come and like roam around the floor, vendors themselves. I mean, you have to kind of touch base on so many different aspects of, you know, the expo experience. How do you make sure that it's good for everyone? Yeah, that's a good question because, you know, for a while there I was using the tagline pinball expor the everything for everyone showed to emphasize I don't care what level of interest you are, there'll be something there for you. I'm going to pull up the website here while you're talking. I just want people to see one one you should win an award for the longest scrolling single page in history of website uh manufacturing. But uh part of the reason I want to scroll down is it talks you have so many different categories of things like it just it seems like such a filled event. Uh so I'm sorry for cutting you off but I just want to scroll through this while you talk. You know what what makes me exciting about dance is that um there's so much happening. You know some sometimes people call me up and say yeah I'm going to come down Friday only. I can't get off work. I said man do me a favor. Call up your office. Tell me you got co you'll have CO that weekend. You've got to come the whole time. There's just so much to see. You can't see it all in one day. You can't see it all in two days. You really need all three days uh to see everything. And uh we we refill it up. But you know, when people get there, there's a love in here because there's so much positive energy. People high-five and hugging and say, "Hey, Jeff, you think I was dirty? I wanted to meet you, man. I love that one that one podcast again." And then you'll say, "Hey, are who are you? I'm Bubble. Oh my gosh. I Nice to meet you, man. So, you know, it's an opportunity for everybody to get together and high five and and hey, let's have lunch together. You know, the thing is with the with the guys, the international guys, um often times people will meet him and say, "Hey, man, you got you guys are pretty cool." And then next thing you know, they're they're eating lunch together or dinner together and and they made new friends. So uh you know pinball is a universal uh loved universal language among everybody. And uh you know we for sure you don't have to speak the same language to play a game of pinball with each other. It can still be a friendship making or friendship breaking experience. We got guys coming from Germany. We have a vendor from France. Uh we got a guy from Hungary. That was crazy. But um it's crazy how international a lot of the pinball makers are. I mean I'm thinking like you know the pinsaw guys are from France. You know I forget where HOV pinball is the one that makes the uh LVDS HDMI kind of break out for Stern but just in general like there is no even though Americans do consume the most pinball and I think that's a lot to do with some of the shipping uh kind of disasters that are currently going on with tariffs and whatnot. But uh but pinball's international and we have people from Australia, all over. In fact, I can see Omega Cammy is currently in chat. She's from Tasmania of all places. And uh this shows, man, Tasmania loves pinball, too. Yeah, the one from Tasmania. She the one coming from Expo. Is she coming to Expo? I don't know. Cammy, are you coming? Are you coming to Expo this year? There'll be a little delay. We'll get back to that one. Uh so why Cammy? While Cammy is answering that question. Uh, so have there, this is a good one. Have there been any near disaster moments that have almost prevented Expo from happening? I know you mentioned CO, but just has there been such a logistical uhoh? CO was the only thing that stopped us from moving forward? I mean, that's pretty good. A A global pandemic is uh pretty much the biggest monkey wrench you could possibly have. I still would have done it, but Chicago, when these things happen, Chicago is a major lockdown. and they they wouldn't see to it. But um yep, we uh nothing stopped the show. The show must go on. Yeah, this is true. Uh Indie Arcade Wave is asking, he says he hopes the homebrew community is bringing tons of games. How do you make sure or interface with the homebrew community to make sure that they represent cuz I know like uh Tatch uh is local to Chicago and I know he's brought his his games uh there a few times and among other people. You actually mentioned someone uh individually uh that had a game that was really interesting. if you wanted to plug them now as well, but just how do you connect with these home group people? Well, the answer this first question, the last count, the last year we had 40. The last count were over 50 this year. So, for you home brewers or people that love the home brewers, get ready to go crazy. And uh I'm trying to think where I should start. Um, as far as how we got the people there, Aaron Davis with Fast Pinball has done a very good job of promoting Expo and promoting the homebrew out there in the West Coast and getting people to use his system to come to Expo. So, he's a big advocate. Jake Danzig does a very good job of promoting it. And Amodo Har from Marco. So, what's Marco doing this year is um I've asked them to lose their mind and I've been trying this for three years. I've asked them to lose their mind. Finally, they lost their mind. They are getting a booth 70 foot by 80 foot. That's a big boost. That's a huge And what I've asked Marco to do and they finally agreed to do it is they are going to have a a pinball parts supermarket. And what that's going to be is uh they're going to go through the shelves and and some of the boxes on the ground and um discontinued products and so forth and they're going to have them there to show sold at a discount. So if you want to bargain or you want to have a good time just rumaging through the boxes of goodies, this is going to be the year. Marco, I thank you. Marco Ramirez and the people from Marco, uh thank you for doing it because I'm excited about that. But what Emoto has asked is that we do the homebrew as part of this whole Marco uh package. So guys, you're going to probably spend a quarter of the day just in that one area. So much happen, right? A shout out to Emoto. She does so much to be the face of Marco and to just help promote kind of like pinball. I mean, if you need parts and you have stuff that's going on, I mean, she worked with Kyle back in the day when they were doing the Marco live broadcast as well. I mean, just an absolute uh legend in the uh kind of repair and parts thing. Uh Pat has a question here. Pat's Arcade has a question. And I see there's there's this part of your website that says zero zero tolerance Ryan Policky talking about Pinball Expo, you know, being a safe and family fun place. Uh Pat's asking if there's going to be more security this year because a popular podcaster is threatening to fight someone apparently who's potentially bringing a homebrew pin. Yeah. So, we we hear these rumblings as well and and we let the right people know. So, if anything happens, things will get squelched very quickly. So, you tell that young man to come see me and if I have to, I'll be his private bodyguard the whole weekend. There you go. I mean, what more of an answer do you want? They're trying to make sure that this is going to be a safe pace. And don't fight people at Pinball Expo. That's a stupid thing to do. That's the last thing I want as well. So, you know, we want to be family friendly and people that come there 98% of the time leave with a good feeling and say, "Boy, this is a great great event." Like you've heard Jeff from your friends. Pinball is about we need to grow the pinball community and it means to send a positive message. People don't want to be going someplace to fight. That's uh that doesn't sound very pinball spirit. You know what I mean? Y um thank you Geck saying keep growing pinball. I'm trying. That's why we're talking to Rob here. By the way, if you're just tuning in, this is Rob Burke. Rob Burke is the original creator of Pinball Expo, Guinness Book of World Records. You said that you had a new updated number. Blow my mind. What is the number of pinball machines that you currently have? Well, the last number was 1040. So, we're closer to 1150 now. And what's uh that's a lot of pins. Yeah. But what's scary is I made a trip overseas three months ago and I went to meet uh GA who's with the um Austria uh pinball museum they have in that part of the world and um he made the mistake of taking me back to his warehouse. So nice probably bringing back another 100 days. Well, no. You're making sure no one's anywhere near your uh your your Guinness Book of World Records limit. Uh Yoda wants to ask, "Are pins available for sale?" I'm sorry. What? I'm collecting the 30s games now. Who would guess it? So, you know, Cliff's one of our guys that comes to the show. Cliff is the is the 1930s uh guru at Pinball Expo. He's the first guy to came to expo with one single 1930s game. And I said, "Boy, this thing is kind of cool, kind of fun." I said, "Why don't you come back again?" So he he missed a year and and then I think it was two or three years ago, I said, "Let's do a big spread for the 30s." So he he did like a speak easy kind of look with a a 1930s lampshade and a 1930s uh bar scene and couch there and carpeting and take and kind of walk into the time of the 1930s. And he had about 20 or 30 1930 games there. And we actually had a 1930s tournament. And there's talk, Jeff, that you're gonna enter it this year. So, a lot of people, there's a buzz about that. Uh, you I'm not a tournament player. I'm a I'm a talker. I'm a I'm a person just to meet and greet the pinball people, not to try to beat them. There's far better players. Can you imagine having your mic there? What are you doing here right now? What's your name? Billy B. Bill. Billy B. What are you doing? Well, I'm playing this 1930s game. I'll be there with my camera. Don't you worry. I'm bringing the whole rig. What's crazy is the more you're around him, the more you appreciate him. As simplistic as they are, but I mean this is how every this is where the whole industry started with these 30s games. No flippers, no electric, very basic games, but uh in the mid30s they really start developing bumpers and some other things that made the games a little more exciting. But to see the evolution of this game, in fact, you know, I have an we have an arcade back in my hometown called Pastimes that has a lot of my collection in there. And we're going to have a booth this year called Pastimes booth. But in that booth, we're going to have games from the 30s, the 40s, the 50s, the 60s. So you see the evolution of the games in the and that history is important because arcades are just stocking, you know, modern sterns. Now I frequently say that it's the arcade's responsibility to have some kind of glimpse of different generational games. And if you haven't played a wood rail, if you haven't played a game without flippers, you should absolutely give it a try because there are so many games that are just amazingly fun even without flippers. And plus, you get to like experience a little bit of like pinball history. Like what's not to like? Yeah. You know, the the one thing we find at pastimes is um Have you seen pastimes? Do you know about it, Jim? I haven't. No. If you could if you could Google while we're doing while we're talking, if you could Google pastimesplurarch arcade.com, but that has a a big part of my collection. We've got 600 games in there. So, it's really a very large arcade. But, uh well, while I'm while I'm pulling this up, uh you had mentioned one thing that people like put together kind of like themed uh environments for the actual pinball expo. Tell me what's the what's the craziest like just balls out wild themed booth that someone's put together over the years where you were just like, "Wow, you guys really went ham." Yeah, that's a great question. Um I've got the past times pulled up too for people that are curious. Well, let get a little goofy this year. I know that. Um yeah, he's gonna have a big ass sofa. I talked to I talked to Rob about that. Old Rob Wrath. I guess you Robs like to stick together, huh? Yeah, something like that. Um, that's a good question. I had to really think about that one. Um, you know, one thing that really blows my mind is the size of the booth that that Stern gets. I mean, for the 40th, they got a I think it was 80 by 80 ft by 80 ft. I mean, how large it is? It was massive. That's big. That is a big boost. A big supporter of it. And u that's pretty nuts. And Jersey Jack does an awful lot for us, too. So, you know, we're lucky to have these Chicago based companies. Yeah, I was going to say they're local. I mean, it's almost like a cheat code to have your, you know, giant pinball expo in the backyard. Pretty easy to ship games over there. Yeah, it's really crazy. There's a guy by the name of um he goes by the name of Nitro Pinball. I'm not sure if you know him in your neck of the woods. Uh he's bringing some games. He is a distributor for the games out of called Home Pin. You ever hear of Home Pin out of T? Oh, I'm familiar with Home Pen. Okay. So, he he represents them. He represents Bitronic. Bitronic is out in Spain, but uh he decided to get a booth this year and he's going to bring some games from both those manufacturers to the show. So, we are going to have a massive representation of pinball, uh, not only from the the domestic guys, but also a lot of these guys that you just never see them again. I mean, home pin, you never see those. No, I bet there's going to be lines around the whole building to go play some home pin games for sure. Uh, but it is amazing that that you help represent these companies. Yeah, I think it's called Blues Brothers is the name of the homep. So, he'll he'll have that game on display. But you know, Jeeoff, we talked before we got on the air, but the one homecoming game I'm kind of looking forward to and some other people here is there's a guy from France, TD is his name. T A G T T A D E G T T made a game called The Invaders, and that guy ship is shipping his game to Expo to join the homebrew selection. It's awesome. That's awesome. God, I hope that game survives the ship. A homerew. Yeah, the homerew pretty well. Yeah. I mean, it's just part of a risk of it, especially with a home pin. I mean, that's, you know, like a homebrew system. It's It's not like you have other ones that you could pull parts from for the most part, unless you happen to have built two. So, uh, but that's that's certainly, by the way, Uncle Jeff, hopefully don't mind her calling Uncle Jeff. Uncle Jeff? No, I didn't realize we're family now, Rob. Just a friend. Now, if you look at that homepage for me, at Expo homepage, and scroll down to the there's a guitar company coming to our show. If you could find that for me on the homepage, it's um it was a it's a green um What color is their logo? I'm at the I'm at the giant vendor list at the bottom currently. No, No, from the very top. Start at the very top. Oh, it's at the very top. All right. and scroll down. And then we have a little blurb with like a bumper blast. Here we go. Uh here we go. Cathar Cathara guitars. They're more than just guitars. These guys are out of Canada. How I found them, I don't know. These guys make uh guitars out of used pinball playfields. That's awesome. That's so cool. And I mean they sold they sold one of their guitars to Ed Ed Robertson from Barelegged Ladies and these I hear they're huge fans of pinball in fact which is I that's pretty funny. You got to make sure you see their bros that is insane. But you know I I look for these guys all the time. I reach out to a lot of guys in Europe and a lot of guys I find on Facebook and people reach out to me like this is going to be a fabulous show guys and you know there's some people out there that's you know still don't know if they should come but fans you got to try one time to see it. You won't believe it. There's so much positive energy and so much stuff you don't see at the other shows. So uh so let's that's specifically one of my questions. So let me touch base on that. So I have here I'm like what do you think makes Expo different than these other shows? I mean, you just said that it's, you know, you do the research to bring in some like really interesting uh unique kind of contributors, you know. Do you think that that's what makes Pinball Expo special? Well, it's a start of it, but also the seminars. No one does this the breath of seminars we do. I mean, we were the first ones to do the seminars. We still do them, but we have over a hundred speakers, and that doesn't include you if we get you on the airwaves next year, but 100 speakers. Nobody wants to hear me talk. Obviously, he's got a good voice. But, um, I mean, it's it's crazy the number of people we have. So, that's that's pretty cool. Now, for me, I'm I'm very excited about one particular speaker. Joe Cam. Jeff, have you ever heard that name? No. The only Joe I know is Pinball Degenerates. And that guy's a huge jerk. I'm just kidding. I love Joe. Phil who was the guy that collaborated with Gary Stern to start data east. Okay. Yeah. So this is the data east period. So he will be with Joe Gary and they'll be giving a a seminar on the early years. This is like back to teaching all those early games they made at Daddy East. Sure. But Joe Cow is famous for something else. He started a company called Kapow. Okay. The pop built a game that no one thought would ever be built, the Beatles. According to Joe, he spent a million dollars out of his own pocket to produce this game. So, anyone that's coming to Expo that wants to really learn about Joe Kamakow, he is a great guy and he's giving a seminar with um Gary Stern, you want to see this guy. He is very very take note if you're coming to pinball expo go to that panel. How do you schedule these and is there a place that people can easily see where and when these times uh these panels are going on so they don't miss something if they're interested in it? Yeah, great question. So we have a schedule events on the website plus we'll have that blown up and we'll have several signage throughout this show where to go. But are there people on the floor that help guide around if you're you know completely lost? like are there pinball expo representatives of the people that you can go speak to? How would how would someone find someone like this? It'll say staff. But um there's two couple speakers I'm very excited to hear about. But my question to you Jeff is who was the gentleman that designed Adders family? That's a Pat Lawler game, isn't it? That is correct. So you so far you're you're batting a thousand. Pat Waller designed an awful lot of games and a lot of great games. Um, like anyone else in the industry, the guy is, you know, we're all getting older, including me. Pat Lawler said last year, that was his last year, and I reached out to him and I said, Pat, please give me one more year. People, there's new guys coming to Echo every year. They want to know about you. He will be coming one uh final time. Final time. Amazing. anyone that's listening to this podcast, I highly recommend whether you're into Rudy or Twilight Zone. Yeah, I was about to say or his last game Toy Story which was, you know, his egress from Jersey Jack. But Pat Lawler is a great designer and he will be giving his final seminar. Typically, for those that go to a seminar room, typically his seminars are always packed. So anyone that wants to meet him for one final time, get a picture with him, get his autograph, this could be the last l opportunity. So for some for a popular seminar like that, is there like if the seating is full, can people stand in the back? Like what's the are you kind of so if you miss it? Exactly. Because you're there, you know, since you're part of the media and the press, you can you can kind of, you know, walk up front and sit down on the floor and watch it, but do like sitting on the floor. Another guy that's coming who's a very very great designer is Steve Ritchie. So, uh, anyone that knows about his games, you know, he will be there. So, his seminars are always packed. So, these are the two of the greatest designers we've seen in the pinball world in modern history. They're both coming to Expo, which is fantastic. Joe Kamakau, who has done a tremendous amount for the IE and the industry, will be at Expo. These are some very power figureheads. And guys, these guys are not going to be around forever. Oh, you weren't kidding when you said that this is going to be a banger of a of a show. Yeah. Allstar lineup. And I all I asked, someone come up to me and said, "You know what? I'm so glad I came. I listened to that dirty pool podcast. I wasn't going to come, but I've been talking hearing you talk and you talk me into it. And I am so glad I came. I love you, Minnie, is what they're gonna say. Everybody watching my channel is already going to Pinball Expo if they were going anyways, but I appreciate that. Uh Pat Arcade wants to know, are the seminars recorded or archived? Uh we have Martin Au. He's with the Pinball News out of Robert Englunds and he's there uh uh um YouTubing every seminar. So, every seminar it'll be recorded and we'll be on YouTube. But, um, there you go, Pat. The answer is a resounding yes. Um, you know, last year, as a side note, we went so goofy last year. I I lost my mind last year. We had so many seminars, we had to split them up in two separate rooms, the first time in the history of Expo. And uh we did it but people were mad and said man I wanted to go to that seminar but it conflicted with the other one so we won't do that again but the floor was nice to have a second room and just in case right so for the game give me an idea of what the floor is like at pinball expo I'm assuming that a lot of the games that are there maybe from your personal collection and or is there a section for just free play like if someone is not a pinball person and they're just coming in off the street what what are their what are they seeing and immediately when they come onto the floor. Well, a couple things. The pinball scientist has come, Ryan Tanner Walters out of Minnesota. He's a school teacher, but he he's going to do a workshop on how to build a pinball machine. Again, this is what cardboard itself, but he's doing it for the kids. So, for anyone that wants to bring their kids to the show, this is an attraction for the kids. Plus, you can do a kids tournament there for pinball. So, that's going to be fun. But to answer your question, when they walk in there, they're going to be blown away by the number of vendors and um every manufacturer you can dream of will be there. Every supplier you can dream of will be there. We got one guy, Jeff Morehead, that's coming in from Pennsylvania. And uh he he is the the used parts guru. He got so much parts and stuff. It'll blow your mind. plus all the um the pinstate we talked about him and um the guitar guy. I mean there's just so much. It's almost like you don't know where to start. You don't know where to look for. I met when I I was I was in Chicago last week. I met I met a gentleman who makes resin casted plastic ramps for games that no longer if you don't know many ramps for older games were made of plastic and without the actual molds that were used for those they're very difficult to replace. Uh the wire four ones are obviously much easier, but this this guy's business was just making new plastic resin casts for games so that people could get new plastic rams for specific games, which is I think that's just awesome. Like it just shows the dedication a lot of people have to restoring and like kind of keeping the older games in uh in prime condition, right? Well, you know, that's one thing that's never ending is that the the hobby or the the people that are getting involved in the industry are keeping the the hobby alive by making ramps again or offering this or offering that. You know, Steve Young is a big part of the hobby surviving for so many years because um you know, Pinball Resources, his company, and you know, they have every parking agency. Plus, if you ever call that guy up, he'll answer any question you got. Why is my coil sticking? Why is this? Why is that? The guy is amazing. But um Steve Steve uh Engle will be there to make it. He's a guy that sells the pinball back glasses. There you go. Have a 60oot booth just with back glasses and also pinball parts. So if you want to buy parts, you want to buy games, we have one guy coming from Europe. His first time he goes by Europen, he's got about 15 or 20 games he brought on the container. And these are old games made with uh uh for the overseas market, but he's bringing them to Expo. So that should also be a really exciting thing for people just to see these games. Yeah, for sure. An opportunity to see some really rare stuff. I remember at California Extreme, you know, I would they had a whole Capcom lineup where they had Big Bang Bar and uh Yeah. Oh god, what's the other one? Kingpin. So it's it's neat to see some of these kind of like rarer prototype games that just make it out. It's funny you mentioned Europe as well as well. Tommy Cyber is here. Tommy Cyberoy has an IFPA number of five. He is Oh my god. That is how OG he is. Uh but he's I want to see him at Expo. Is he coming to Expo? I think so. He says he can't wait for almost a 10-hour flight. Uh he says there's a lot of Dutchies there. I used to have a very respectable nickname. Uh Cloak, which uh if you're Dutch, maybe you know what that means. Um but Tommy says he's going to buy some parts. So it's a good thing. It's a good thing you've got this shopping mall, the Marco shopping center, right? Yeah. It's going to be nuts, guys. I It's hard to say what you want to see first, but there's so much to see that you'll need every hour of every minute. Plus, if you want to visit the seminars, you know, that takes time. Plus, if you're going to go on the screen tour, that takes time. And then, you know, Wednesday night, uh, Jeff, we have something in the in Terry and we call it the, um, bumper blast, but what we do is just it's kind of like the welcoming part of everybody that comes to Expo. So, um, it's there's so much food there you can even blow up. But, uh, I always, for those who don't know, Antarium is a a local arcade along with Logan. I'm going to mention Logan as well. Uh, there's some just some things outside of the expo that you probably shouldn't miss, too. If you had to tell someone kind of like the top two or three things to do around Expo, let's exclude Let's exclude factory tours. I think that's kind of like a no-brainer. If you're curious to see how pinball machines are manufactured, Stern definitely does. And I think does is JJP offering factory tours as well, do you know? Not this year. Yeah, not this year. There, but you guys outside Expo. Yeah, Antarium for sure. And then I think uh you know Olympics should probably be mentioned, right? Yeah. Antarium is like a family entertainment center is what I'd call it. So with part of the entrance to Antarium, you get to play all the games for free. So you know pinball machines there, uh redemption games, they got a bowling alley there. So it's all part of the fun of the evening. So um guys, make sure you get plenty of sleep before you come because you will not get sleep at 12. And the only thing better than playing pinball is playing pinball for free, right? I would say. There you go. Yep. Plus, you know what? Stern's gonna have a Stern is donating a uh a John Wick game as a raffle prize and Jersey Jack is going to donate a game there for a raffle prize. So, you know, there's opportunities to, you know, spend a few bucks on a raffle ticket and you win a brand new game. So, that's pretty cool, too. Yeah. And then you can pack it in your luggage and uh send it on home on the airplane with you, right? Just don't give it to Jeff because you may not see it again. That's true. I will steal your games for sure. We'll drive them back. Um so, so do you do does some of your personal collection go into Pinball Expo? Yeah. So, it's a great question. So, um, you know, uh, when I went to Europe several years ago, um, we were we had a vacation in Spain. And around the same time, a guy name Oscar reached out to us by email said, "Hey, I'm coming to Expo and I'm from Spain." And that's that's odd. We're coming to Spain next month. He'd like to meet you. I've never met a guy in my life. Well, when I went to see him, good guy, but he took me around to some of the collectors in Spain and they had all these games I've never seen in my life. So what happened was there was a time period there where Spain and Italy could not import games from the US. So they created their own cottage industry of games and there there are games that you'll see at Expo that were made in Spain and and it's because of Oscar show me these guys out there that turned me even more goofy about buying more and more games. And a lot of games I bought in fact and the container coming in and show you is from Europe. But a lot of those games will be on display at Expo. And he's a game he never ever seen in America. So, uh, that's really cool, too, to see these games. You know, they're just so much guys. I don't know. Don't skip on what the Zakaras, too. Like the Italian pins. I mean, there's Is that the official way to pronounce it? We've had a lot of like debate here. Is it Zachariah or is it Zakaria? Well, let's put it this way. I met I met the Zachariah. One of the brothers still living. is that the the debate can be settled. It's done. Yeah, I met him. So, uh do you do you have a crown jewel in your collection? I've always liked either Theater of Magic or Medium Madness to me. My favorite games. Oh, you know, a John Papadiuk and an Eddie. Huh. Yeah. But when you go to the international Kimble database, you know, they have that listing in the top 10 EM games and top 10 solid state. But year after year, month after month, it's almost always those Williams games and valley games from the 90s. Oh, for sure. Super pin era that 90 92 to 96 is just bangers galore. Shadow, Twilight Zone, Adams. I mean, great difference. So, you're wondering yourself, what is it about those games that to this to this day they are the top collectible games over the new games that come out? Are you asking me? Yeah, I'm asking you. I mean, I think that they didn't crutch on technology to try to make it fun. It's pinball in its purest form, right? They're still maximizing the entertainment value without having to like crutch on like gimmicks. Not that pinball machines nowadays aren't also, you know, true to form in that way, but I don't know. There's definitely people people refer to the early 90s as really like a kind of golden age of pinball and it's you're right. It's the designers were in their kind of creative like I don't know like golden age for lack of a better term and it really shows. By the way, um anyone that's coming to expo my wife works at the registration and she's there 24/7. I don't know how she does it but she likes chocolate candy. So anyone guy good guy if you bring some chocolate candy for her a box of candy she'd be very pleased. All right there you go. If you need to butter up if you need to to get something out of pinball expo you can bribe with chocolate. Yeah including the guy from Robert Englunds you know bring some chocolate from Robert Englunds that one person Tanzania Tanzania whatever bring something from that part of the world. Tasmania. Yeah Tasmania. You hear that Cammy? Bring Bring chocolate. You see come to the expo. Did we know yet? She did not respond. I think she hit and ran. It's late over there. It's what 11 12 hour time difference. She was probably probably in bed. I I appreciate her hopping on. Uh Dr. Doobie says that the rules are approachable and the games uh all have great fun themes is why the the '9s golden age is kicking so strong. It's true. And they weren't based on IPs, too. There's a lot of IP uh kind of attachment these days. Yeah, good point. Um, so for Pinball Expo, do you have a do you have a favorite expo memory? Um, 40 years. Yeah, a couple. One when Nolan Bushnell came. That was that was special for me when Nolan came. And um also for me, you know, because I've been around so long, I've met a lot of the guys that are no longer around, but just knowing and meeting Dave Christensen, who did a lot of the great backlashes for Valley, knowing him is is great. U him and Ferris are probably two of the most kind of revered, I don't know, 70s and 80s kind of backlash designers. Early news, these guys came to every every expo. Um you know to know and I appreciate Joe Kamakow which anyone who comes this year and comes to one of the summariz is is a winner. He is but to meet him to meet Tom Neman. So Tom Newman worked for Ballet, but he was the creative genius, did all the marketing for Ballet, and he was the one that brought all these superstars uh to the fold and created pinball machines about Dolly Parton and the Stones and those early blet, you know, was it was one licensed after the other. Sure. The guy that started all this stuff. So he was a great guy himself. Hopefully, he'll be the next one, too. You bring up such a good point, like there's so many different like avenues. Like even the uh kind of like old pulp paper advertising like uh pamphlets that came with these pinball machines. Like someone designed those and the gimmicks that go into like including that art and graphics on there. I mean, there's just so many people that go into the production and release of a pinball machine that uh you know, it's nice to give him a voice. Um you know, I last year Dan French came back. He's one of our early attendees, but he brought all the different things he'd collected over the years, you know, uh keychains, baseball hats, nice p anything that was a giveaway here from your manufacturer. So, that that was fun as well. A permanent hire at Spooky Now, I believe that Franchie is their uh art director now. Yeah. Um do you have a guest or a speaker? Not I'm not counting the Pat Lawers or any of the other people that you had mentioned. Was there just somebody that really surprised you as a as a s as a you know presenter that just really put together a really unique or a really amazing experience? Yeah, I think the one guy that always does a great job and he speaks from his heart and that's Roger Sharp. Of course, the man who saved pinball. Are you kidding me? You know, when when we uh we showed his film for two years in a row and then he came and then last year both Roger and his wife Ellen came. So, you know, it was special to have him there and just to think how important he was for the hobby and for the industry and not, you know, the New York when he fought the New York State um uh in New York City about getting pinball legalized. I'm going to show the skill and put this ball right where it should be. And I mean, if you saw the the movie, it was a great movie. By the way, we're showing movies this year. We got two different guys showing pinball movies. So, that'll also be part of XO. Nice. Um, there's so there's so many things to do. It's almost overwhelming, Rob. I got to be honest. I'm having a little like pinball anxiety. I mean, you guys need to get in your car now and get down there early. And um, what I'm suggesting is either bring a sleeping bag or whatever and sleep under the pinball if you get tired and then come back out and keep playing. Well, didn't you say everybody could stay at your place? You were you are offering extra bedrooms. You know, now that you mentioned that, we used to do a thing called the fireside chat. And what I would do is I would have a suite at the expo and I would have people come up to my room and I'd have one of the either Steve Ritchie or or Larry Dear or Pat Law speak in my room and people would sit on the floor like a like a campfire. That's amazing. tell stories and people just sit there and listen in awe and learn great. That's such a unique way of sharing a pinball because like don't get me wrong like not to bag on the the presentation format of sitting in a bunch of chairs in in a theater format. But good for you for shaking it up by creating something that's a little more I don't know like intimate. Not in like a sexy way, but just like you know. I mean finally my wife says hey enough is enough. There's too many people here. I mean the one year we had um I mean I couldn't even get into my own my own room because it was packed you but you know it made it intimate and that's what made it fun. Yeah it's And you're making unique experiences out of it instead of just the you know your traditional kind of Comic-Con kind of experience. Um what's one thing from Expo that's stuck around from the beginning? um the seminars in the factory in the factory George you know when we we turned we toured Gotled was extremely secretive you couldn't talk to the employees you couldn't get in and through the doorway and somehow we cracked that thing down and and expo attends were some of the first people from the outside to see a factory and see everything in operation. It was a It was a great thrill because people couldn't even believe we were there, right? You're breaking into something that's like generally like not top secret, but it's just, you know, pinball companies love to be secretive about stuff even now. All great, man. All great times and great memories. And um where do you see Expo going in the next decade? I mean, you've talked about how you've, you know, expanded homebrew stuff, added movies recently, and just in general, like, where do you see to innovate and keep Pinball Expo as the unique experience so that it doesn't get kind of drowned out into the other kind of, you know, Texas Pinball, all the other kind of expose that are trying to do the do the same thing. Well, I don't um I don't think about the other guys. you know, we can do our own deal. Uh but um I think just keep focused what we're doing now and and do what the community wants to see and treat people with respect and give them a show that when they leave, they're sitting there saying, "Man, this this show was unreal." Unbelievable. And I mean, just talking to you, you can you can feel the passion and emotion from me, but also you can you can appreciate the the fact that there's so much to do. How are you gonna squeeze it all in? Yeah, this is I can remember how much how about the stuff going on. I can't remember. So, it just crazy. I mean, we had one guy come from Colorado. He had to deal with it called fun with pinball. So, he had pinball components, but he has on a table and you can see how a pop bumper works and how relays work. You can walk up there and touch the display. So, it's really cool. That is neat. I I found him at the Rocky Mountain pinball show. That's one thing I stole from that. I stole that guy. You're like a little spy going to the other pinball shows to like poach poach some good people. Uh was I think Kyle at Stern was telling me that uh the one thing that he recommended is go in with a plan with Pinball Expo. Like have a have things that you want to check off your list and make sure that you go do them because you're just going to get so kind of sidetracked and overwhelmed. So exactly right. No, you're going to start talking to people. I mean there's going to be people that want to talk to you. I don't think so. you just sit down and you know I'll buy your lunch or whatever and the next thing you know you look at your clock because you know what there was a seminar supposed to be I got to get out of here you know there's not enough hours in the day I do want to catch that paler one Twilight Zone I'm currently streaming Twilight Zone and Twilight Zone is one of my favorite games of all times I've put so much love and time into it I'm staring over here because it's literally standing standing right next to me. Do pinball machines sit Rob? Do you think they take a break? Do they sit? I guess if you put a pinball machine on its on its head box, is that considered sitting instead of standing for a pinball machine? Good question. That that's that's a next next discussion for your next podcast. Fair. Fair. Um, is there something that you've wanted to do at Pinball Expo that just was too logistically complicated or too expensive that it hasn't been done yet? Yes. And that's the pinball Olympics. So, you know about this more than I do perhaps, but um this one gentleman does the pinball knuckles in his home and it just sounds fun to do where he's got all these crazy things, you know, looking through a a binoculars playing pinball where you're looking through the binoculars and just all kind of it's hanging upside down. I've heard some crazy stuff. I guess the total nuclear annihilation Scott Danesi's games, the experience room is coming back. So, and I guess they've upped the flashers. He had a a thing on Instagram. Shout out to Denise, by the way. I think Total Nuclear Annihilation is such an amazing game. It's one of those games that you just you you love to hate cuz it's so mean. Uh but the you know, the fact that they're doing a little experience room out of it, which has smoke and flashing lights, all sorts of crazy Like, it it sounds pretty uh pretty amazing. Yeah. Um do you ever think you'll take Expo International? It's interesting you say that because I just thought about that last year. Bring bringing bringing the concept to Europe. It's a thought. It's a thought. It takes, you know, a lot of manpower and time and and uh effort and energy. You know, you mentioned about the seminars. Uh I probably work on the seminars once during expo and for the next nine months. I I put notes in my phone of possible seminars. But once I start working on it, it probably takes me two solid weeks to put the seminars down and move it up and down. Make this a little bit longer, make this one shorter, fit this one in here, fit this one there. It takes a lot of time and energy. Yeah. Like how do you you risk diluting the experience trying to like conform it to fit like an international situation, right? like how would you make the choices to keep it, you know, the pinball expo that people expect but still, you know, have it still be an international like uh situation? Well, you know, it was fun for me. We We we've had guys from Italy speak at expos and um this one guy I Ivan from Italy, he makes the the most outrageous pinball machines I've ever seen as far as um he chromes everything from head to tail, top to bottom and uh chrome cabinet. Not quite that, but I mean his games so beautiful. He's like, he he we stopped him in your tracks. But he'll be, by the way, he'll have a booth at the show. So he he he'll have gangster sale and he had a radical he had a radical there a couple years ago and I saw it says, "Uh, Ivan, that game is not going any further. It's going to my booth and I bought it." But everyone that saw it just said, "Wow, this game is beautiful." And Bradle is already a pretty beautiful game. I mean, it's got so many different colors and it's got all these crazy crazy ramps and stuff going on with it. So, did he did he chrome the plastic ramps? Like, what did he do to Radical to make it? So, I'll leave you with this. You got to come to Expo to find out what he's doing this year. All right, fair enough. Peridolia just says that he saw that Radical and that the blue chromatic is amazing. Well, now I want to know what blue chromatic is. But I hope your listening audience comes again this year. And uh like I said, anyone that's never been there like yourself, you know, make the effort to come and and I promise you guys, you're going to love it. I I genuinely can't couldn't be more excited. I just like I love pinball and I have loved pinball for a really long time, but expos always seem kind of like inaccessible because you got to like really travel to go there and it's hard to coordinate with family and kids and stuff like that. So I'm I'm pl pr proud that I'm making the jump this year. So, if you are if you are a person who's been uh on the fence about going to Pinball Expo, hopefully hearing this has helped convince you to get your ass over there. Um, which which leads into my last question here or second to last question. Uh, for someone who's never attended Pinball Expo, right? What's a reason that they should come back? If you've seen Pinball Expo once, what is it that that's going to bring you back a second time? Well, if you're in the seminars, it's a whole whole different um seminar uh arrangement I have I put together every year year after year. They're always different. Number one. But number two, uh different factory tour. Number three, um to continue where you left off as far as meeting friends and being with, you know, people and connecting to them. And every year, you know, it's like a class reunion. You know, you hook up with the same guy again. Hey, where's this guy? Where's that guy? Someone said Jeb's here. Yeah, he just came in over there. Oh, Jeff, it's me, man. And you know, there's the energy of seeing old friends and making new friends that make me want to come back here. And you know, I u I had a guy, one of the guys reach out to me from Australia, Stephen Smith, and he he's the I knew that Hanken made a game called Star Wars, and I had seen it at one of the previous expos. Well, he reached out to me and because he he read about pastimes. He said, "Hey, would you want this? Would you be interested in in this uh Star Wars game?" I said, "Yeah, I really been a woman for my arcade." And they said, "You know, Hankton made five titles." I said, "Five? I've never heard of that." Well, you know me, one game without the other. I end up buying all five. And I brought all brought all five to Expo last year. And I'm not sure I'll bring if I'll bring them again this year, but for people that came, that was a real fun experience to see all these games they had never seen. Yeah, that's crazy. These games were made in Australia. Did you know they made games in Australia? I didn't. I didn't. Yeah. Crazy. So, um, you know, there's so much to see, guys. Right. Where do you start? Where do you stop? I don't know. But the only downside to expo is if it in the day when I'm not no longer around, it's hard to say if if it's going to show the same passion and air and excitement that I do my very best to bring to the show. There you go. That's amazing. And to your point about it's about the people. Pinball isn't just about pinball machines and rumors and things like that. It's about having friends and connecting with people in the pinball community. And uh it sounds like that's like kind of the best reason to come back. Even like the Moto, if you if you ever heard of her or met her, she she's a little live wire, but you know, some people it's just cool to meet her. Man, that girl, see, she's pretty hip, man. She's fun. But you can meet her and you can meet all the designers and you can meet the artists and um you know, Brett Fer should do that. Greg Kick. Greg Kumick is the guy that designed Wizard and Captain Fantastic. If you guys have ever read some of the older games. Oh, for sure. great community. They'll be coming to the autograph section. Cool. So, to me, that's that's a great uh a great part of our show is is seeing and meeting meeting him because he's not involved in the industry anymore, but he makes it a point to come to Expo and he also is a great guy. He he'll talk your ear off. Cool. So, pinball people do love talking about pinball. It's very true. Uh all right. So, I have one final question for you, Rob, and I want to thank you again for taking the I know that we've been trying to coordinate this uh kind of off and on over the last couple of weeks. Uh so the the Pinball Expo doors open, right? And you walk through and there's a Rob Burke curated pinball machine there to encompass the experience of Pinball Expo, right? I'm going to give you three games and I want you to pick one of these games to make this the Pinball Expo experience. It's kind like the first thing you experience when you come in. Are you ready? You pick one of these games. Here we go. Your first option is Raven. Your second option, Raven. And the third pin you could pick from, it's Raven. Okay. So, what's the question? Well, which which of those three games would you pick to have be the like front and center pinball experience when you open the doors? H. Uh, it would be the Raven Playfield that was used in the homebrew area with a title. That's specific. I'm going to guess that was Rambo since that's probably the most that's the most logical Raven thing. He tried to circumvent the question. Chat, I do this every time I do an interview. We always bring Raven up in it in some way. Yeah. Reskinning Ra Raven as a homebrew is definitely skirting the line of of cheating that question. Got one more thing. I got one more thing for you, Jeff. Hit me. When I was growing up, well, when I was playing pinball, uh, Hercules came out. So, at the time, that was just amazing. The big monster of a pinball machine. Sure. There's a bigger one now, right? What's that? Is there There's a bigger one. Didn't somebody make a bigger than Hercules pinball machine? Yeah, me. So, over the years, I kept thinking about this Hercules and finally I kept asking Zergy Jack, asking Stern, can't you guys create another Hercules block? No, too hard. Uh, low production number blah blah blah. So, I got um some of the homebrew guys and with the help of Ernie Silverberg, we were able to produce a game called Mothership. Mothership will be at Expo playable. It was bought last year. Wasn't quite completely working, but if it would be playable and it's a multiball monster ring. So, as big as Hercules, I imagine multiball Hercules. So, this game is called brand new artwork on it called the mother ship. And um Brian Allen did a great job with the artwork and Ernie Silverberg did a great job putting it all together. and um it'll be there for you guys to play. So, that's yet another thing to come for that's for sure going on my list of to-dos for sure cuz I have not played giant pinball yet. I'm aware of giant pinball. I've just not played giant pinball. And it sounds like this is the giant pinball to play. Yep. It's called Mothership. Guys, get ready. I mean, you know, we we've been on the phone for an hour and a half and we just scraping the surface of what's going to be at Expo. So, um, make sure you guys are there and and make sure you see Jeff last good guys. And, uh, maybe he'll be given autographs, too. Maybe. Why not? If someone asked me for an autograph, I'll give it to him. I'll praise The Great Pyramid, you know. Um, Tommy says that it wasn't playable last year, and he's super stoked that uh that Mothership is making a return. So, you've made it is definitely going to be up and with improvements. It'll be it'll have sound this time. Just tell Tommy to go crazy. There you go, Tommy. He's coming from Holland. Um, all right, Rob. So, the last thing I always ask is, is there anything you want to plug? Well, I think the thing you're going to talk about is Pinball Expo for the people that don't know. Go ahead. The floor is yours. Well, we've already plugged it. We plug it for an hour and a half. So, pinball egg and pastimes IK guys is are some should be on your hit list. You can look up both of them on the website. But, um, you know, anytime I do something, I I try to go to the max. I don't go part way, threequarters of the way. It's all the way. And you'll see that at past times when we got over 600 games on on the floor and you'll see it at at Pinball Expo, which will be a ton of games as well. So, uh, hope you guys come. Hope you guys enjoy like I'm saying you will. And I'm sure that you'll leave there saying this was a good time. And I Yeah. Well, well said. And I will be there. If you are watching this and you would like to bump into me or bump into Rob, find us. It's going to be a great time. Um, yeah. So, yeah, without further ado, the last thing we do on here is we find a new channel to raid. try to find someone who's just streaming pinball that doesn't have any viewership and drop a bunch of people on them. Uh again, Rob, I want to say thank you again for joining me and uh giving me some info on all the cool things that are going on at Pinball Expo that I had no idea about. Um stick around afterwards so I can say uh thank you and all that good jazz. And if you are currently watching, stick around right now as we go to raid somebody. Uh the last thing we do, Rob, you got to put your fingers up like this and say all praise the great pyramid because that's the that's the great god of pinball that we praise. I call py I call it pyramid power. There we go. Pyramid power. All praise. Uh yeah. So thanks again if you're listening on uh on podcast you know a lot of mi I do not know okay he's involved live home brew stuff now but I taught him pyramid power years ago. So this is old which is old news for me. That's great. We're bringing it back. Pyramids. Bring back the pyramid. Pyramid power. Pyramid power. Pyramid power specifically. Not just pyramid but pyramid power. Got to bring the power. Uh, all right. Anyways, thanks again everybody. Uh, goodbye. Now I got to hit the button. There it is. _(Acquisition: youtube_auto_sub, Enrichment: v3)_ --- *Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 6c5bdebf-5766-45a3-8ce0-3fcb43b951e3*