# Episode 70 - Legendary Women of the Pinball Industry

**Source:** Wedgehead Pinball Podcast  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2025-02-17  
**Duration:** 49m 51s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** Buzzsprout-16539826

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## Analysis

Wedgehead Pinball Podcast Episode 70 features host Alan and guest Zoe Vrabel discussing legendary women contributors to the pinball industry, including artists, programmers, engineers, and administrators from the 1970s through 2020s. The episode highlights Suzanne Ciani (Xenon composer), Margaret Hudson (Bally artist), Jeannie Mitchell (Williams/Gottlieb artist), Linda Deal (Williams/Bally artist), Zofia Bill Ryan (first woman lead mechanical engineer), Christina D'Onofrio (first woman programmer), Shelly Sacks (Stern Pinball operations leader), and Karen Tribula (manual documentation). This is part one of a two-part series; part two will cover competitive women's pinball and tournament history.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Suzanne Ciani was the first woman composer and first woman voice in pinball, hired by Bally for the game Xenon — _Alan discussing Suzanne Ciani's work on Xenon; Zoe Vrabel concurs_
- [HIGH] Margaret Hudson was the sole credited artist on Bally games 8-Ball Deluxe and Spectrum and worked across multiple manufacturers including Data East and Stern for 20+ years — _Alan cites Greg Freres as source for Margaret Hudson information; previously featured on Wedgehead Pinball Podcast_
- [HIGH] Zofia Bill Ryan was the first woman lead mechanical engineer in pinball history, working at Williams 1990-1996 — _Alan explicitly states 'she was the first woman lead mechanical engineer in pinball history'_
- [HIGH] Christina D'Onofrio is the only woman to receive a solo programming credit on a pinball game (Data East Star Trek) — _Alan: 'I believe she's the only one that has this' regarding solo programming credit_
- [HIGH] Shelly Sackes was a day-one employee at Data East Pinball alongside Gary Stern and Joe Kamenkow and worked there for over 40 years until retiring in 2022, dying of cancer six months later — _Alan quoting Gary Stern: 'without Shelly, there would be no Stern Pinball'_
- [HIGH] Linda Deal was specifically hired by Greg Freres and was instrumental in teaching the Williams/Bally art department how to use new computer art tools in the early 1990s — _Alan citing Greg Freres as previous show guest and source_
- [HIGH] Zofia Bill Ryan was laid off from American Pinball in January 2025 — _Zoe Vrabel: 'I saw a press release or someone posted about it, and she was one of the people affected by the layoffs'_
- [MEDIUM] Karen Tribula created and compiled every manual for every Williams pinball game and these manuals represent the high water mark for pinball machine documentation — _Alan: 'Karen supposedly was the one that put together each and every one of these manuals'_
- [MEDIUM] Jeannie Mitchell and her husband Constantino were credited together on all Gottlieb/Premier games from mid-1980s until Gottlieb closed in 1996 — _Alan discussing Jeannie Mitchell's career trajectory with husband as co-credited team_
- [HIGH] Christina D'Onofrio worked at Williams for only two years (1980-1981) on sound programming, then had a ten-year gap before re-emerging at Data East in 1991 — _Alan: 'she worked at Williams for two years, 1980 and 1981' and 'she didn't work in pinball again for 10 years'_

### Notable Quotes

> "highlighting women shows that we've been here all along throughout the industry and we do cool shit, too"
> — **Zoe Vrabel**, ~early in episode
> _Core thesis for why the episode focuses on women's contributions to pinball_

> "without Shelly, there would be no Stern Pinball. Shelly embodied our company's entrepreneurial, get-it-done spirit. More importantly, she was one of my closest and dearest friends, and I will miss her."
> — **Gary Stern (quoted by Alan)**, ~Shelly Sackes discussion
> _Demonstrates deep personal respect from Stern's founder and shows Shelly's critical role in company survival_

> "Linda brought the knowledge and the skills, and she took all of the old cavemen and taught them how to use these new tools"
> — **Greg Freres (quoted by Alan)**, ~Linda Deal section
> _Illustrates Linda Deal's technical leadership in modernizing art department processes_

> "I miss when there were these cool, weird things happening on the playfield. And yes, sometimes the ball, the missed multiball doesn't come off the magnet or whatever. But the fact that it existed, like I want to see more cool stuff like that."
> — **Alan**, ~Zofia Ryan mechanical engineering discussion
> _Reflects on how 1990s mechanical complexity, while requiring maintenance, created memorable gameplay experiences_

> "missed multiball is like the best thing in pinball. Like I truly like think it's crazy that it hasn't been done again"
> — **Zoe Vrabel**, ~Bram Stoker's Dracula discussion
> _Highlights underutilized mechanical innovation from Zofia Ryan's design work_

> "to hear Gary Stern talk, he's a salesman. He's always selling. It's always the newest game on the line. It's the best game we've ever made. Here's what you bought. Here's what you need to buy next. So to hear him sort of turn that off and get personal about Shelly, I think it speaks a lot to what she brought to the table"
> — **Alan**, ~Shelly Sackes discussion
> _Demonstrates the emotional weight of Shelly's influence on the industry_

> "I think she's probably most known for those John Papaduke art packages, the ones on Theater of Magic and Circus Voltaire, because she was the lead sole credited artist on those games"
> — **Alan**, ~Linda Deal section
> _Identifies Linda Deal's most iconic work and artistic style_

> "the bias, like you said, intentional or unintentional, it's definitely there"
> — **Alan**, ~early in episode
> _Acknowledges industry recognition bias that motivated the episode's creation_

> "I would love to have her on the show. So if anyone knows how to reach Margaret Hudson, please reach out."
> — **Alan**, ~Margaret Hudson section
> _Shows ongoing effort to document and interview industry pioneers_

> "We wouldn't have pinball today without her and her hard work. Gary Stern himself said it."
> — **Zoe Vrabel**, ~Shelly Sackes discussion
> _Summarizes Shelly's systemic importance to pinball industry survival_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Suzanne Ciani | person | Composer, synth pioneer, first woman voice and composer in pinball; hired by Bally for Xenon (1980); nominated for Grammy 5 times; created iconic Coca-Cola bottle sound |
| Margaret Hudson | person | Artist at Bally (1970s-80s), specializing in rubylith/color separation; sole credited artist on 8-Ball Deluxe and Spectrum; worked 20+ years across Data East, Sega, Stern on major titles; known for attention to detail, color work, line work; described as shy despite exceptional talent |
| Jeannie Mitchell | person | Artist at Williams (1970s-80s), always credited alongside husband Constantino Mitchell; later moved to Gottlieb/Premier until 1996 when Gottlieb closed; worked on numerous games including Firepower, TX Sector, Bad Girls |
| Linda Deal | person | Artist at Williams/Bally (1990-1998), hired by Greg Freres; pioneered computer art tools adoption in art department; sole credited artist on Theater of Magic and Circus Voltaire (John Papaduke games); worked on Demolition Man, Junkyard, Circus Voltaire, and others |
| Zofia Bill Ryan | person | First woman lead mechanical engineer in pinball history; worked at Williams (1990-1996) on iconic mechanical features (Bride of Pinbot, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Doctor Who, Junkyard, Popeye Saves the Earth, Dirty Harry, Whodunit); hired by American Pinball 2018; laid off January 2025 |
| Christina D'Onofrio | person | First woman programmer in pinball; worked at Williams (1980-1981) on sound programming for Algar and Pharaoh; re-emerged at Data East (1991-1990s) as animation programmer and sole credited programmer on Data East Star Trek; only woman with solo programming credit on a pinball game; also worked on Lethal Weapon 3, Rocky and Bullwinkle, Tales from the Crypt |
| Shelly Sackes | person | Executive assistant at Stern Electronics Pinball (late 1970s); day-one employee at Data East Pinball alongside Gary Stern and Joe Kamenkow; held title 'Jack of All Trades' (JOAT); worked 40+ years; retired end of 2022; died of cancer 6 months later; credited by Gary Stern as essential to company survival |
| Karen Tribula | person | Williams employee (late 1980s onward); created and compiled manuals for every Williams pinball game; manuals regarded as high water mark for pinball documentation; transferred to slot machines division after Williams pinball closure |
| Zoe Vrabel | person | Former IFPA Women's World Champion; co-host of this episode; pinball player and community member specializing in competitive pinball and tournament history; known for advocacy on women's competitive pinball rankings |
| Alan | person | Host of Wedgehead Pinball Podcast; researched and produced this episode on women in pinball industry history |
| Greg Freres | person | Former Bally Art Department employee and later art director at Williams/Bally; previous guest on Wedgehead Pinball Podcast; hired Margaret Hudson and Linda Deal; source for episode details on female artists |
| Gary Stern | person | Founder of Data East Pinball (with Joe Kamenkow); CEO of Stern Pinball; son of Sam Stern (founder of Stern Electronics); praised Shelly Sackes as critical to company survival; salesman and business leader |
| Joe Kamenkow | person | Designer and day-one employee at Data East Pinball alongside Gary Stern and Shelly Sackes |
| John Papaduke | person | Renowned pinball designer known for prioritizing art in game design; worked with Linda Deal on Theater of Magic and Circus Voltaire; later attempted to start own manufacturing company; discovered Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti) |
| Jeremy Packer | person | Artist known as Zombie Yeti; discovered by John Papaduke; now does art packages for Stern Pinball |
| Sam Stern | person | Father of Gary Stern; founded Stern Electronics Pinball in late 1970s (Williams/Stern games like Stars, Meteor, Nineball, Big Game) |
| Isaac Ruiz | person | Previous guest on Wedgehead Pinball Podcast; known for disliking Doctor Who's time expander mech (designed by Zofia Ryan) |
| Constantino Mitchell | person | Artist at Williams and Gottlieb; worked alongside wife Jeannie Mitchell on art packages; sometimes credited as 'Connie Mitchell' |
| Bally | company | Pinball manufacturer (1970s-1980s); employed Suzanne Ciani, Margaret Hudson, Linda Deal; merged with Williams; later closed pinball division |
| Williams | company | Major pinball manufacturer; employed Jeannie Mitchell, Linda Deal, Zofia Bill Ryan, Christina D'Onofrio, Karen Tribula; closed pinball division 1999, became WMS gaming |
| Data East Pinball | company | Pinball manufacturer (late 1980s-1990s); founded by Gary Stern and Joe Kamenkow; employed Christina D'Onofrio and Shelly Sackes; made Checkpoint (first DMD game) and Data East Star Trek |
| American Pinball | company | Modern pinball manufacturer; hired Zofia Bill Ryan in 2018; laid off staff including Zofia in January 2025 |
| Stern Pinball | company | Current market leader in pinball manufacturing; founded by Gary Stern; employs current female designers and programmers; produces home collector and commercial games |
| Waterboy | person | Co-host of Wedgehead Pinball Podcast; absent from this episode due to illness |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Women in pinball industry history, Pinball art and design (backglass, playfield graphics, color separation), Mechanical engineering and innovative game features, Pinball programming and software development, Manufacturer history (Bally, Williams, Data East, Stern, American Pinball)
- **Secondary:** Industry recognition bias and historical documentation gaps, Competitive women's pinball (foreshadowing part 2), Game-specific mechanics (missed multiball, time expander, crane mech, etc.)

### Sentiment

**Positive** (0.82) — Episode is celebratory and appreciative of women's contributions; hosts express genuine admiration and gratitude for these pioneers. Tone is respectful and reverential, especially regarding Shelly Sackes' passing. Mild critical notes about some games' art quality or mechanics' maintenance issues do not detract from overall positive sentiment. Strong desire to interview these women and elevate their recognition.

### Signals

- **[content_signal]** Wedgehead Pinball Podcast Episode 70 dedicated to women in pinball history, part 1 of 2-part series. High production quality with research-backed content on industry pioneers. (confidence: high) — Alan explicitly states this is 'a very special episode with, like, capital letters' and announces part 2 will cover competitive women's pinball and tournament history
- **[community_signal]** Active effort by Wedgehead Podcast to document and elevate recognition of overlooked female pioneers in pinball; multiple calls for listeners to provide contact information for interviews (confidence: high) — Alan repeatedly states: 'I would love to have [them] on the show. So if anyone knows how to reach [them], please reach out' for Margaret Hudson, Zofia Bill, and Karen Tribula; notes skewed demographics and intentional/unintentional bias
- **[personnel_signal]** Zofia Bill Ryan laid off from American Pinball in January 2025 as part of company-wide layoffs (confidence: high) — Zoe Vrabel: 'I saw a press release or someone posted about it, and she was one of the people affected by the layoffs, which is super unfortunate for American Pinball team'
- **[historical_signal]** Comprehensive historical account of female pioneers in pinball art, engineering, programming, and operations from 1970s through 2020s, including lesser-known contributors whose work shaped industry standards (confidence: high) — Detailed discussion of Suzanne Ciani (composer), Margaret Hudson (artist), Zofia Bill Ryan (mechanical engineer), Christina D'Onofrio (programmer), Shelly Sackes (operations), and Karen Tribula (documentation)
- **[design_philosophy]** Discussion of 1990s design era when manufacturers prioritized mechanical innovation and complexity (Zofia Ryan era) versus modern focus on home collector reliability. Hosts express nostalgia for mechanical experimentation despite maintenance challenges. (confidence: high) — Alan: 'I miss when there were these cool, weird things happening on the playfield... I think we've seen [shift to] selling to a much less sophisticated buyer nowadays. They're selling to a home collector.' Discussion of maintenance complexity as trade-off for innovation
- **[business_signal]** Context on manufacturer consolidation and survival: Stern Electronics (1970s-early 80s), Williams/Bally (merged, closed 1999), Data East Pinball (late 1980s-1990s), modern era with Stern as market leader. Emphasis on Shelly Sackes' role in Stern's survival post-1999. (confidence: high) — Detailed timeline of Stern Electronics closure in early 1980s, Williams/Bally merger and 1999 closure, Data East Pinball founding, Gary Stern's credit of Shelly Sackes: 'without Shelly, there would be no Stern Pinball'
- **[design_innovation]** Extensive discussion of innovative mechanical features designed/engineered by Zofia Bill Ryan including: missed multiball (Bram Stoker's Dracula), time expander (Doctor Who), spinning face/ball lock in mouth (Bride of Pinbot), upper playfield maze (Popeye Saves the Earth), slot machine mech (Whodunit), crane/jump ramp (Junkyard), and gun mech (Dirty Harry) (confidence: high) — Hosts praise these features as 'cool,' 'legendary,' and express disappointment that such innovation hasn't been replicated in modern games. Zoe: 'missed multiball is the best thing in pinball... it's crazy that it hasn't been done again'
- **[product_concern]** Discussion of maintenance challenges with 1990s complex mechanics; operators had expertise to handle, but modern home collectors lack this capability. Stern no longer produces mechanically complex games as a result of market shift. (confidence: high) — Alan: 'if Stern sells you a game and something doesn't work out of the box, that customer will get on Pinside and then we'll just bitch about how Stern... versus when they were selling these games to operators' who could repair and maintain them
- **[operational_signal]** Karen Tribula's comprehensive Williams manuals recognized as industry standard for game documentation, technical support, and operator guidance. Critical for technical maintenance and customer satisfaction. (confidence: medium) — Alan: 'these manuals are certainly the high water mark for pinball machine manuals... Karen supposedly was the one that put together each and every one of these manuals for all these games and so i owe her a great debt'
- **[gaming_signal]** Linda Deal's art on Theater of Magic and Circus Voltaire (John Papaduke games) recognized as iconic and defining style. Art director's choice of artist significantly impacts game's visual identity and legacy. (confidence: high) — Alan: 'Theater of Magic is one that you can just immediately picture it so visually in your face. She was fantastic' and hosts discuss how Papaduke's prioritization of art led him to discover Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti) for future Stern work
- **[sentiment_shift]** Gary Stern's emotional tribute to Shelly Sackes demonstrates deep respect and marks shift from business-focused tone to personal gratitude, underscoring her critical role in company culture and operations. (confidence: high) — Gary Stern (quoted): 'without Shelly, there would be no Stern Pinball... More importantly, she was one of my closest and dearest friends, and I will miss her.' Alan notes this emotional tone is unusual for Gary's typically sales-focused public persona

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## Transcript

 Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Wedget Pinball Podcast. My name is Alan, your host of this podcast, this time without my trusty co-host, The Waterboy, who is at home in his basement studio, sick of this recording. Not sick of the show in general, I hope, but just actually sick. But today we are discussing women in pinball and some of the women that helped shape the industry and game that we know and love today. There have been artists, programmers, musicians, engineers, managers, and operators. And today we're going to talk about some of their incredible achievements in pinball. some of the young guns who have recently joined the industry, and discuss the future outlook of women in the pinball industry. For this very special episode, I am joined on the show once again by my good friend and former IFPA Women's World Champion, Zoe Vrabel. Welcome back to the show. How are you doing, Zoe? I'm good. This is a very special episode with, like, capital letters. We're going to learn something today. We're going to learn a lot of things, I think. you approached me with a fantastic idea to do a women in pinball episode and then i immediately was like okay there's a lot in one episode so we're going to do this as a two-parter because i want to talk about in this episode we want to talk about some of the women in the history of the industry some of the people that worked in the industry and then in the next episode you're going to sort of get to flex some of your knowledge and your experience working with the ifpa and being a former women's world champion and sort of the history of competitive pinball and pinball leagues and tournaments specifically for women. Yeah, two-parter, double the fun. Double the fun. So tell us why highlight specifically women? That is a great question. I think that the reason to highlight women is that with the very skewed demographics in the hobby, in the industry, and whether that's intentional or unintentional bias, it means that women and their accomplishments and contributions might not have been highlighted or recognized to the same extent as some male creators that, you know, you guys talk about Steve Ritchie all the time on this show. But why are women whose names are not in our back pockets to immediately make those references? So highlighting women shows that we've been here all along throughout the industry and we do cool shit, too. You're 100 percent right, because I think anyone if you're into pinball, it's like people know who Keith Elwin is. You know, people know who Jack Danger is, but many people aren't going to immediately recognize some of the names we talk about in this episode. Exactly. I mean, the bias, like you said, intentional or unintentional, it's definitely there. And hopefully we'll get to give some of these women some credit on this show and talk about some of their incredible work. Yeah. And this is like part of a hobby that I'm not familiar with. So I'm going to be learning along with your listeners. Well, the first one I have on my list is Suzanne Siani. She was dubbed the Diva of the Diode and America's First Female Synth Hero. She was nominated for a Grammy five times for Best New Age Album. Unfortunately, she did not win any of those times. It's hard because Enya is always in the mix for New Age Album. Totally, totally. She released 17 albums, most of them under her own record label, which I thought was really cool. That's awesome. She's like self-releasing these albums that are getting nominated for Grammys. The first one she released in 1970 while she was still in college, and the most recent album was released in 2023, so she's still making music. Oh my god, could I go to a Suzanne Siani show? I think you can. I would 100% get front row tickets. She received Clio and Bronze Lion Awards for excellent in advertising because she was working in advertising before her brief stint in pinball. She did the jingle and sound effect work for commercials for companies like Macy's, General Electric, Merrill Lynch, and Coca-Cola. In fact, she made the famous pop and fizzing bubble sound for Coke. Oh, like when they open the bottle? Yeah. It doesn't state me that I'm thinking bottles rather than cans. But they open the bottle and it goes, ah. That was her? That was her. Legend. Legend. And how she dovetails with pinball, she was hired to compose the music for a pinball machine released by Bally called Xenon. And she had her voice sent through a vocoder as well. So she is the first women's voice in pinball and the first women composer in pinball. Oh, my God. That is so cool. And Xenon has such a cool back glass with a woman confronting the alien almost. Yeah. That's a great machine to leave your mark on. I believe it's the first game with a true ramp with a shoot the tube shot. Love to shoot a tube. Yeah, shoot the tube. That's Suzanne Siani. So which is very cool. Very cool music. Very cool game. Very cool that she was brought into the industry by Bally. Staying at Bally, the next woman on our list is Margaret Hudson. She was an artist at Bally during the 1970s and early 80s, and she did a lot of process and rubylith support work. Oftentimes, her role was described as a color separation artist. Am I supposed to know what a rubylith is? Is that a term I should be familiar with? It's an old school way of doing color separations. It's basically a emulsion film that they would then use exacto knives to cut the emulsion away from, creating a positive and negative effect. And they did this to they would take art and then they would lay out layers of rubylith and then they would cut them out so that they could be screen printed in different colors. Right. So it's a very time consuming, tedious process back then. And we talked a lot with Greg Freris, who was working the Ballet Art Department at this time when he was on our show. And he told us about he was originally hired because he had some darkroom experience. And so a lot of RubyLith was darkroom processes. So if you ever worked in screen printing or any of our listeners have, it's a similar, not the same, but a similar kind of antiquated version of how they would separate colors for the ultimate printing of these machines. Margaret was also very talented as an illustrator, though. 8-Ball Deluxe and Spectrum, two ballet games, are two famous art packages where she was the sole credited artist. Oh, Spectrum is next level as far as the back glass. That is some new age. Speaking of Suzanne Ciani and her new age album, this is some new age shit right here. It is unbelievable. I think Margaret, and Greg told us this too, that Margaret was quiet, very hardworking, extremely talented, but shy. Like she was not as confident in her illustration ability, which is insane when you see her work. Oh my gosh. Yeah, if you've never played a Spectrum, like the play field is interesting. The back glass is so like late 70s, early 80s, trippy. It's beautiful. She's an incredible artist. And she went on to work in the industry for, you know, like another 20 years. She went on to work at Data East and then later on at Stern. She was most often paired with Kevin O'Connor, who was another famous pinball artist who started the ballet art department at this time with Greg Freres and Margaret Hudson. Also worked at Data East through Sega and into the Stern years. But she also did notable games that she did some work on. Skateball, Frontier. Hell yeah. Laser War. Time Machine, Data East Star Trek, both Simpsons machines, Lord of the Rings, Family Guy, Spider-Man, and Batman Dark Knight. Those are an incredible list of games to have worked on. Like, I think she's also especially good at mustaches between 8-Ball Deluxe and 8-Ball. Those are some beautiful black glass mustaches. Yeah. You know, on those she did bits and pieces. I know she did some plastics work. She did some lettering work. She wasn't the sole artist on those. She was sort of, like I said, she did a lot of support work. So she wasn't always the sole credited artist, but her accomplishments were when she did get those. We got to see a couple of them with 8 Ball Deluxe and Spectrum in particular. We got to see solely credited. This was 100% Margaret Hudson. And you could see her chops there. And she was very good in her color work. She was very good in her line work. And her attention to detail is what Greg Ferrer has always told me was what stood out about Margaret and that she was a team player and she got projects done on time and was just the best to work with. Good for her. That is incredible. Even if it was just single mustache hairs that she contributed to a given game. The thing is, is like, I love Margaret Hudson's artwork. I really wish we would have gotten more of her as the lead artist. And I'm not quite sure why. I think Greg had told me that she was a little bit just sort of not as confident in her own ability, which is, again, insane when you look at her artwork. But I've, you know, I talked to a lot of artists and they all feel that way. It's weird. Artists are insecure, especially at the highest level. They always look at other artists and they go, oh, no, they're great. And whatever I do is not as good as their art, which is a shame because she was very talented. And I would love to have her on the show. So if anyone knows how to reach Margaret Hudson, please reach out. Any of these women we're about to cover would love to have on the show in the future. These would be gold star guests. Yeah, absolutely. The next we have Jeannie Mitchell, who was another artist. She was at Williams during the 1970s and early 80s. So basically the same time period. but she was at Williams and she was always accredited alongside her husband, Constantino Mitchell or Connie Mitchell, as he's sometimes called. And they were always referred to as a team by everyone I'd ever heard of. She likely did a lot of the process work similar to Margaret, but I couldn't find evidence that she ever did any solo illustration packages like Margaret did. Although maybe she did and they just got credited to her husband. I'm not sure. Have we ever seen that happen in history? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm putting it out there because I think it's entirely possible that that's the case. Back when there were typewriters, a lot of men who were getting their doctorates in academia would credit their wives in their acknowledgments of their thesis for typing their theses for them. So I'm just saying this was happening as recently as typewriters. Sometimes women are behind the scenes making things happen. She definitely gets co-credit on a lot of those packages. So she was definitely very involved. It's hard to parse what exactly she did or did not do, but she was at least a part of the team. And she did get credit even back then. But she also moved to Gottlieb and Premier in the late 1980s. Still always credited with her husband, Constantino, on pretty much every game that Gottlieb made. She was there right up until the end in 1996. So after Williams in the mid-80s, she left to go to Gottlieb and was there until 1996 when Gottlieb finally closed. Some notable games that she worked on, Flash, Stellar Wars, Gorgar, Firepower, TX Sector, Bad Girls, Bonebusters, Class of 1812, Freddy, Shack Attack, Big Hurt, and Barbed Wire. I don't know if you always want to be associated with a certain game's art package. like Flash is maybe not the top tier artwork that we expect from this couple. I know I think some of those are a little rough The Williams games from that era at least the early ones are a little bit rough So that was probably Constantino fault I sure Genie didn have anything to do with the bad parts of those art packages No, absolutely. Absolutely not. And then when we move to Gottlieb, you see things like Bad Girls, which, you know, those girls are looking great. So she did right by them. So that's a win for feminism, I guess. Yeah, and TX Sector and Class of 1812. I like a lot of these games. They're maybe not excellent games, but I think they're a lot of fun. Yeah. Moving on, we have another female artist. This time it's Linda Deal. She was an artist at Williams and Bally after the merger. Greg Freres hired her when he was the art director at Williams Bally, and she worked on art packages from 1990 to 1998. When we spoke to Greg Freres on the show, he specifically mentioned that Linda was someone that was very good at the computer art tools at the time in the early 1990s, and that she helped him and others in the department really learn how to use these new tools and sort of brought them into the modern era, you know, instead of having women in STEM. She's a woman in STEM right there. Yes. I mean, all of these ladies are women in STEM, I guess. Yeah. Like Greg was like, Linda brought the knowledge and the skills, and she took all of the old cavemen and taught them how to use these new tools. This is fire. This is what you really need to use. Yeah. Some of her notable games are Riverboat Gambler, Doctor Who, Demolition Man, Theater of Magic, Whodunit, Junkyard, Circus Voltaire, and Champion's Pub. That really runs the gamut from some things you probably want to leave in the past, like racist depictions on Champion Pub to the coolest joker you've ever, jester you've ever met in Circus Voltaire. Yeah, I think she's probably most known for those John Papadiuk art packages, the ones on Theater of Magic and Circus Voltaire, because she was the lead sole credited artist on those games. some of those other games she was working with other artists and just did bits and pieces of the art packages like maybe she did a cabinet or she did like the plastics but she didn't do necessarily the back glass or the whole play field but theater of magic and circus voltaire are all hers and are iconic art packages in the history absolutely yeah that's one of those back glasses theater of magic is one that you can just immediately picture it so visually in your face She was fantastic and brought a whole style and very like those games in particular feel. I don't know if you if you would say this, they feel feminine, like they feel like they have a feminine touch. Interesting. I feel like there's there's a lot of loops and a lot of repeated shots on them. And maybe those curves could be something that is leaned into. I don't know. Just spitballing. It was weird because that designer, John Papadiuk, deserves his own episode at some point. But his games are very unique, very different. And he's also known as the type of person that prioritizes art on his games. Later on in his career, after the closure of Williams Valley in 99, he tried to start his own company, manufacturing pinball machines, taking people's money. he kind of famously discovered Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti) yeti who now does many of the art packages over at stern he recruited him to do an art package for an alice in wonderland game that never got made so he's got an eye for talent and he definitely prioritized anything i ever heard about him in old interviews was always about his focus on the details of the art and the way the machine was melded with the art package and how important that was and i think it's no surprise that the two games that jump out on this list to me circus voltaire and theater and magic are both papaduke games and they're both linda deal games i think it's very really let her shine yeah and i think that's very cool because those games are iconic and i wish we got more art packages like that i wish we just got some like crazy stuff like that again those make me miss the days of uh non-commercial IP, like unique stuff coming from the artist's deranged mind. Yeah, absolutely. It's a lost art, unfortunately. I don't know if we'll ever get that anymore. But I would absolutely buy an unthemed game or whatever, you know. Yeah, an unlicensed theme. Unlicensed theme. There we go. And then also in the 90s, we're going to talk about Zofia Bill. Later on, she married, changed her name to Zovia Bill Ryan. She was a mechanical engineer for Williams from 1990 to 1996. So again, kind of in this renaissance period in the 90s. And she was the first woman lead mechanical engineer in pinball history. Hell yeah. Awesome. And she's responsible for mechs on games like Bride of Pinbot, Party Zone, Doctor Who, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Popeye Saves the Earth, Dirty Harry, Whodunit, and Junkyard. Oh my god, can we go through those real quick and talk about the individual mechs? Because that is a murderer's row of trying new things. And yes, these are the machines that break more. These are the machines that are probably a pain to work on. But it's so cool to be even trying things like this. Okay, so Bride of Pinbot. Yeah, Bride of Pinbot with the spinning face and locking the balls in the mouth. You know, a Python Anghelo game. wild game another iconic game in pinball history yeah i mean specifically the turning over of that piece of material yeah just like there's places where you can lock balls and then there's a smooth side and just the the thinking the thought process that goes into saying why don't we just flip this thing over yeah totally so cool yeah and then doctor who uh the time expander that's one of my favorite mechs in pinball i really that is one of uh one of your former guests isaac ruiz's least favorite mech in pinball i remember him having a doctor who for such a long time and it was never playable because of that time expander but such a cool idea oh man well you know it's all of these games require maintenance i don't want to i don't want to uh highlight zofia's work in general because i feel like we operate a lot of these games and i can keep them running pretty well I don't have a problem with them. The 90s games definitely had a lot more mechanical features, which means that as the games get played, they will require more maintenance. It's something that manufacturers, particularly the industry leader Stern, doesn't do anymore because I think they're selling to a much less sophisticated buyer nowadays. They're selling to a home collector. so the fact that they're doing that what will happen is if stern sells you a game and something doesn't work out of the box that customer will get on pin side and then we'll just bitch about how stern you know are a bunch of crooks and all this kind of stuff versus when they were selling these games to operators the operators would be able to fix and massage and repair these games it doesn't mean that the operators were always happy that they had to fix the game or whatever But they had the knowledge and expertise to be able to make those adjustments or changes. And so I think we've seen. I think I'm so nostalgic. I'm nostalgic for this era. Me too. I miss when there were these cool, weird things happening on the play field. And yes, sometimes the ball, the missed multiball doesn't come off the magnet or whatever. But the fact that it existed, like I want to see more cool stuff like that. so dracula has missed multiball what else is there oh dude miss multiball got a whole miss multiball is the best miss multiball is like the best thing in pinball like i truly like think it's crazy that it hasn't been done again kind of like i'm like where is this like somebody should steal this mech and put it in a new game just because it's so cool so cool and it's got like a lifting ramp that from the shooter lane so that it hides it always stages a ball for the miss multiball and that happens as you're playing it'll automatically load and kind of reload that and it's got the ball lock up around the left ramp it's got the coffin lock and the raising of that so a very very impressive game and then you were going to say Popeye which you play a lot of in Boston. Right? Not unless I'm forced to. They just, the Our Lady Pinball and Three Knocks just brought in Popeye to the place I play League at, and I am having to play it more and more. But it's got, you know, a whole upper playfield with that maze that you have to traverse through. It's got the animal kickers on the left side. Yeah. It's got a spinning wheel for the skill shot, which is part of what makes it not a great tournament game, because if you find the timing correctly, you can just light your lock from that spinning wheel every time and not play the game and just play multiball but it's still a great idea and uh yeah i mean and then she did work on WHO dunnit WHO dunnit with the elevator kind of center ramp slot machine in the playfield yep slot machine in the playfield which is kind of like an old school em thing they would do that on ems way back in the day and then junkyard which has a great crane mech in the center of the playfield and then it has that kind of weird jump 180 ramp mech on the right side so it'll go into that doghouse or the little forks will come up and it'll do a 180 flip ramp which is very impressive there's a subway underneath as well to like bring the ball back into play there's a lot going on just mechanically in all of these games oh and we skipped dirty harry which has the gun oh yeah dirty harry has the gun which is very cool very cool and so important to the game and very thematically appropriate so for those of you who didn't like that there weren't guns in John Wick, go play Dirty Harry. Yeah, it's all guns. It's all guns in the artwork and all over the game. That's actually the first game I ever got a grand champ score on. So I have a soft place in my heart for Dirty Harry. I think that might just be a bullet hole. Yeah, exactly. You should get it looked at. Soft place in your heart. And then Zofia was hired by American Pinball in 2018. I couldn't find any direct credits, although it's likely that she worked on most, if not all, of their games, I would imagine. She's got the skill set for it, and why would you hire her and put her on the shelf? But I got your note in here that says she just got laid off this month, January 2025, from American Pinball. Yeah, I saw a press release or someone posted about it, and she was one of the people affected by the layoffs, which is super unfortunate for the American Pinball team. They sounded like a really close-knit group. Yeah, that's a bummer. Hopefully she'll find some work elsewhere in the industry. There's other manufacturers out there, and I think her resume speaks itself. I love her games. I would, again, another interview subject. If anyone has a contact for Zofia Bill, please send it to Wedgeheadinfo at gmail.com. I would love to talk to her on the show. The next up, we have the actual first woman programmer, software programmer. Her name is Christina D'Onofrio, and she worked at Williams for, I found this interesting. She worked at Williams for two years, 1980 and 1981, and she's credited with sound programming on games like Algar and Pharaoh. Algar? Have you played Algar? I have not. I've heard of Algar, though. I'm pulling it up on IPDB. It's a very rare game with like a... Oh, yeah. Yeah. What is going on here? This is like a lion in a superhero costume? Yeah, it's the original Lion Man. That is Lion Man that that is lion man for sure yeah neither are considered great games but she is credited with sound programming on these two games and then i saw that she didn't work in pinball again for 10 years so she was gone for a decade or at least maybe she was working at companies but she was more behind the scenes she didn't get a another credit like on the creative team until 1991 where she pops up again working for data east and the first credit she has is for animation programming for checkpoint which is the first game with a dmd screen which is the game that came out a few months before gilligan's island i was gonna say wait a second the game that zoe defended on this show as her die on this hell game and then christina was on a team of programmers for data east batman and her first solo credit is on data east star trek so she was not only on a team of programmers that got co-credits she also gets a solo credit which is extraordinarily rare i believe she's the only one that has this although hopefully we'll get to it later at the end of this episode But hopefully we got some women working in different pinball companies right now. And I can't imagine that they won't end up as the lead on a project here pretty soon. But yeah, that would be great to see. So you're saying as of now, only woman to get a solo credit as far as programming goes? Yeah. And she did that on. Yeah, she did that on Data East Star Trek. She also worked on Lethal Weapon 3, Rocky and Bullwinkle and Tales from the Crypt. Data East Star Trek is like the forgotten Star Trek. I think it's overshadowed by Next Gen and Stern Trek and even the Ballet Star Trek. But that's some trippy, very 90s art. I like the art on that game. I like that game. I was playing it when I was in Indiana at Wizard's World. And I was actually kind of sessioned it for a little bit because it was playing well. You know, like sometimes you don't see a game for a while. And then when you do, it's like busted and broke. I got on that game. I was like, this is playing zippy and fast. And like, I got I got kind of into it because I was like, man, I don't ever get to see this game. Like you said, it's kind of forgotten about the forgotten about Star Trek game. And there's fun rules like programming one just to reference back to your die on the hills again. Rocky and Bullwinkle, you and Ty, I think, discussed how there's a switch on the game that like notices when you death save or something. Yeah. So that's something that had to be intentionally programmed into it. So shout out Christina, Christina D'Onofrio and team for even thinking about that. Yeah, it was very cool. Yeah, I think she did some great work. And then we're going to talk about Shelly Sachs. She started as an executive assistant for Stern Electronics Pinball, which was the company started by Gary's dad, Sam Stern, back in the late 70s. She was a day one employee also alongside Joe Kamenkow for Gary Stern when he started Data East Pinball. I think most people were listeners to the show, but I'll reiterate. Gary's dad, Sam Stern, had his own company, Stern Electronics, which is why sometimes you'll go to an arcade and you'll see an old game called, I don't know, Stars, Meteor, Nineball, Big Game. Games like that, and you'll see the name Stern. You're like, oh, I didn't realize Stern was around that long. You're like, kind of, sort of. It was actually Gary's dad, so it's still sort of a family company. And Shelly Sachs worked for that company back then. They shuttered in the early 80s, I think in 83, I believe. And then later on in the late 80s, Gary gets together some investors and creates Data East Pinball. And she was a day one employee alongside Joe Kamenkow. So when they first started Data East Pinball, it was Gary Stern, Joe Kamenkow. Joe Kamenkow was the designer. Gary Stern was like the CEO and Shelly Sachs. And she was given the J-O-A-T moniker, the JOTE, which stood for Jack of All Trades. And that was on her business card until she retired at the end of 2022. Her many roles were said to include receptionist, purchasing manager, bookkeeper, traffic director, office and personnel manager, and administrative assistant. Gary Stern said about Shelly, without Shelly, there would be no Stern Pinball. Shelly embodied our company's entrepreneurial, get-it-done spirit. More importantly, she was one of my closest and dearest friends, and I will miss her. She died of cancer six months after retiring, having fought it for many years. She worked with Gary Stern for over 40 years, and she should probably be credited as the woman that saved pinball after Williams & Valley closed in 1999, and she kept it going with Gary and Stern Pinball up until 2022. too. That's fantastic. That is an OG pinball woman right there. She did it all. To hear Gary talk about Shelly so fondly is lovely. Gary is the type of, to hear Gary Stern talk, he's a salesman. He's always selling. It's always the newest game on the line. It's the best game we've ever made. Here's what you bought. Here's what you need to buy the next thing. So to hear him sort of turn that off and get personal about Shelly, I think it speaks a lot to what she brought to the table and the respect and esteem in which she was held by Gary and everyone else that worked with her. She was supposedly the glue that held the whole company together since the Data East days. Yeah. We wouldn't have Pinball Today without her and her hard work. Gary Stern himself said it. Wonderful remembrance of her. Next up, we have Karen Tribula. She worked at Williams from the late 1980s until well after they closed the pinball division because she then transferred from pinball into slot machines when Williams dropped the Williams pinball and became WMS and got into gaming. she created and compiled every manual for every williams game and these manuals are certainly the high watermark for pinball machine manuals i included that because i appreciate it as a pinball tech when i have to fix a game i am flipping through these manuals and the documentation that williams put into their manuals at the time are second to none and karen supposedly was the one that put together each and every one of these manuals for all these games and so i owe her a great debt and she helped save me a lot of frustration and helped me fix a lot of games so important like it's one of the first things to get deprioritized speaking from my professional experience but it is so important in order to have a happy user base and so to hear you extolling a pinball company for their manuals. That just says a lot about how good Karen's work must be. She killed it. I would, again, all of these women, if anyone has any contacts to any of these women, I've been trying on my own, but now as the podcast has grown and our reach has grown, maybe someone out there is listening that can put me in touch because I would love to talk to any of these women. Karen was on my short list when I started this because I admired the work she did on the manuals like i said i use them all the time like such a nerd i know such a good testament to her to her talent that you are gushing she's the best i mean those williams manuals are the best it's like everything else i'm flipping through and i'm just frustrated by because they're not as good but then we get to elaine johnson and phyllis rosenthal basically both of these women did similar jobs but for different companies elaine managed the bill of materials at williams during the 90s which essentially means every single part and piece for every single game down to the screws and nuts and figured out the bomb or build a materials cost of each game that the company made she had an encyclopedic knowledge of parts and she even gave all the pieces their own part numbers williams when they had part numbers for different pieces of the machines elaine was the one that created all that, ran the system of organization. And Phyllis basically did a similar role for Data East and Sega and now Start. That's one of those things you don't realize you need until you find out that's a real job and that it's super important. Yeah, essentially logistics, right? Like essentially it's how do we get all these thousands, tens of thousands of unique pieces into every machine and how do we categorize it? How do we organize it? How do we account for it? How do we make sure we always have enough of it at the time? Because all it takes is one piece to not complete a pinball machine. And in manufacturing business, when the line dies, your company dies. It's very, very expensive. So these roles that Elaine Johnson and Phyllis Rosenthal filled are, I would say, maybe more important than any of these other roles that we've ever even talked about. And they're probably the least known, but I wanted to give them a shout out here because I respect, that's a hell of a job. That is an unbelievable amount of work to be responsible for. These women did it and they did it well. I think it speaks that they chose these women to fulfill one of the most important positions in the entire company. I think it just goes to show that women can do amazing work in the field and have already and can continue to in the future. Yes, absolutely. And then I want to talk about some high-profile women operators, women that operate pinball machines. When I first started playing pinball, the three high-profile women operators that I knew of was Pinball Molly, Molly Atkinson, ran a spot called Pins and Needles in L.A., and then later 82 Arcade in L.A. Yeah, Pins and Needles was legendary when I started playing pinball. I heard about it immediately and was like, oh, there are other women who play pinball. this isn't something that is totally foreign so molly is 100 no g she is the coolest i love molly i've only gotten to interact with her a few different times at a few different shows and when she comes into portland to visit i think her sister who lives in town she'll stop by wedge yeah page yeah i love pinball molly pinball molly is so fucking rad just a total badass knows how to fix games knows how to play games loves pinball takes up space doesn't take shit from anybody just a badass. Yeah, absolutely. And then there was also, we were lucky enough in Portland when I was first getting into pinball in the late 2000s and early 2010s, there was Ricochet, which was Jerry Ellsworth and Trish Hess, and they were operating pins around Portland. And I remember playing a lot of their games on location. Do you remember the Ricochet girls? Oh, absolutely. I loved hanging out with Jerry and Trish. Also into roller derby, Jerry has created, I think, like video game consoles. She's an incredibly accomplished engineer. And I remember them specifically having locations that were cool. Like they were not just your generic dive bar with pinball machines. Like they had Voodoo Donuts had pinball machines at their Voodoo 2 location. They had a pinball machine or a record shop on Mississippi or Alberta or something. Like they had the cool spots that you could go to during the day and they had a really great variety of games it was awesome to be able to exist in the same community as them they were incredible i remember playing their games at voodoo too like you said because i i had a night job where i'd have to go work in a kitchen late at night so i was always seeking out places where i could play pinball during the day and so i go into that donut shop and play a lot of their games and they were always well maintained and always had a cool lineup of games and they've moved on to bigger and better things but man they were awesome and if they ever hear this episode i just want to thank them for helping get me into pinball i appreciate it me too and i hope that the machines that you are playing now are less sticky than the ones at future that's that's what it was they were very sticky yeah yep it wasn't it wasn't the ops fault like i'm sure they had to do more work than normal just keeping things not sticky because of all the kids and all the sugar and all the frying but we appreciated having a 24 basically spot to play pinball And then we have I would like to shout out Rachel Bess owner and operator of the Electric Bat Arcade in Tempe, Arizona. She's another badass longtime arcade game and pinball operator, owns a very cool arcade in Tempe. They also have one up in Flagstaff, second location. We were fortunate enough, they asked us to be a part of their panel that we gave at Expo on how to run a successful bar and arcade and uh yeah just total badass operator she's been on the show too yeah she's been on the show i had her and her husband kale on the show and they defended simbad as their die on the hill game and we talked about their arcade so if anyone wants to hear more about them you can go back in the archives and listen to those episodes i didn't know simbad needed needed defending anytime you mess with the flipper zoe people hate it that's that's what you that's what I realized. I had no idea. It's an awesome game. I love that game. Are people complaining about the solid state or the EM? We didn't differentiate because that was one of those games that was made in both, right? Yeah, I guess it's just the display that's different. The layout and everything is exactly the same. Whatever. I don't think Sinbad needs defending. Rachel and Kale, you have great taste. So tell me about some of these other female owner ops that you wrote in on this list here? Oh, yeah, absolutely. So as I have spread my wings and left Portland, I have had the pleasure of finding out about other places that, would you believe it, also have pinball. And two owner-operators that I specifically was thinking of when we were putting together this episode. One is Allison O'Neill, who's one of the team who runs Port City Pinball in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. They're hosting the upcoming Women's North American Championship and Women's World Championship. She also makes mods. She does pinball mods, 3D printing, etc. You can look up Minty's Mods, like what you put in Ice-T, Minty's Mods on Pinside. And then another up-and-coming location that is woman-owned and operated is Cary Hill out in Victoria, British Columbia, has Neon Ranch Pinball. And they're giving me very Wedgehead vibes if instead of alligators, you were into cats. That's how I see them from afar. So those are two other female owner-operators that are making huge contributions to the pinball scene. I need to get up to the Neon Ranch. It's been on my list since they opened last year. I've had some regulars go up and just talk about how incredible it is. An incredible lineup of games on Victoria Island in British Columbia, and it Seems to get bigger. I mean, they seem to keep adding games. They got a huge space, and it's awesome. It looks awesome. I can't wait to go. On Instagram, there's always like, hmm, what's in this box? What's this new game? And I never see anything leave. I know, right? Yeah, got to get up there. But to end this episode, we got to talk about some of the next generation, some of these new people in the industry kind of finding seats at the table. The first one we have, Elizabeth Elizabeth Gieske. Elizabeth Gieske. Elizabeth Gieske. Elizabeth Gieske. like a goose except multiple more than one goose all right elizabeth gieski she's software developer at stern pinball worked on games like jaws did she work on the new dungeons and dragons i thought i saw her in the room when they were announcing that game so i'm assuming she's a part of that team i loved listening to her commentary at um was it at expo in october when jaws was in the stern pro circuit or something but just hearing the level of detail that she could share about what the game is thinking about what information is being taken into consideration at every point in time it's really a different skill set that is so important to have is being able to think through all of those mechanical and computer issues that are going to Slash together and she's the person that i think of that i think we're going to see her as the lead on a game soon it's i would love to see that. I think that's a very good guess to bet on. I would bet that that's what we're going to see and hopefully it's happening soon. She's clearly a pinball person, very passionate about pinball and has already worked on some awesome games there. So at some point, I imagine she'll be leading her own team and we'll get to talk about her and her accomplishments in the future. The other woman that's hired by Stern was Taylor Bancroft, who was hired as a technical producer for Insider Connected, found a little script from a press release that Stern gave in 2022 and said that Taylor is responsible for coordinating and managing developmental efforts for Insider Connected, acting as a liaison between internal and external development teams. She works closely with engineering, product management, sales, and marketing teams coordinating the development, design, and execution of the new feature request. That's a lot of words. It sounds like she does a little bit of everything for Insider Connected. Sounds like she kind of runs that? Yeah, that's basically my job, except she gets to do it for pinball, and I'm really jealous. Well, if anyone's listening, Zoe would. Oh, no, I just got a new job. I don't want to move somewhere else. But what Taylor does is so important because you have, for something like Insider Connected, you've got to think about the needs of the operator, the needs of the home owner, the needs of an arcade player, and make sure that you have features that are easy to use, that are things that people would actually want to use the app for. So I can imagine that making everyone understand all these different stakeholders that don't always have the same wants and needs is extremely difficult. And the couple of times that I've met Taylor, she has been a joy to be around. I know a lot of players get a hell of a lot of enjoyment out of Insider Connected. And I will say as an operator, I am so very grateful for the automatic code updates. you're one the shining star of insider connector i keep saying it on the show because i kind of as cool as all the other stuff is and that's great because a lot of people are super into it and they love collecting the badges and allow stern to do all this cool stuff from the very get-go man updating code when you have a bunch of machines all over town and stern drops new code updates every week or something it was a pain in the ass like and the fact that now it does it automatically i always feel like they're they always kind of like yada yada yada about it and i'm like you guys gotta take credit for i get that they think it's not exciting and maybe it's not sexy but like it's fucking cool it's awesome new code is so sexy new code is very sexy i remember when the pinball map used to have comments being like don't play this whatever it hasn't been updated since it was released like exactly to come here and play it exactly like they put all this work into updating the code but then operators wouldn't update it because also it was kind of a pain in the ass and they fix that with insider and then you have a lot of new players that get addicted to it and are always logging in it causes them to come out and play more pinball and so i love what they're doing over there with the insider connected program and taylor's a huge part of that uh we also have Danielle Peck who is a fellow women's world champion and is working at Spooky for rules design consultant. Yeah, that's someone you absolutely want giving you input on the rules. She's incredibly knowledgeable and puts it out on the play field, so to speak. I believe she does some streaming of their games as well. I'm thankful that I didn't have to play her on Bugs Bunny in the last Women's World Championship. I lost anyway, but I would have lost more embarrassingly if we had to play a Spooky game. Yeah, for sure. And then we have Crystal Gemnich, production and development at Jersey Jack Pinball. I believe she also worked at Marco before that and Logan Arcade before that. Is that correct? That's my understanding of Crystal's lineage and legacy. Yeah, so I believe she was a tech at Logan Arcade, famous, awesome arcade in Chicago, and then was working at Marco, the biggest pinball parts supplier in the world, and then now works in production and development at Jersey Jack Pinball. Shout out to Marco for hiring a lot of great pinball women. And in addition to Crystal, you've got Kim Martinez, who's a fellow IFBA director. You've got Emoto Harney. Like, they have a good team, and it's not all just a bunch of dudes. That's true. We had the Marco folks come into Wedgehead when they were here for the Portland Retro Gaming Expo. Yeah, in October this last year. And a bunch of women on that crew, seemingly essential on their road crew, working hard, doing the Lord's work here in pinball. like making sure everyone gets fresh pinball parts for our machines that break all the time. So very important part of the industry is replacement parts. And then we have Jess DiNardo, who works production, is on the line at Barrels of Fun Pinball, working on the Labyrinth machine. She was a member of the Bells and Chimes here in Portland. Founder. Founder of the Portland Bells and Chimes, in fact. Good friend. I've known Jess for a long time. we did two episodes with Jess. She defended bad cats on the show as her die on this hill game. Good choice. Yeah, and good choice. And yeah, I hope she's doing well down there in Houston. Then we have Leah Foskey, who is the artist for Jersey Jack Pinball's newest game, Avatar. And you said she's also doing the art for the Pintastic posters, t-shirts, glasses this year. Yes, since you and Alex have raised your money, you can come buy Leah Foskey's art yourself by buying Pentastic merch when you come out here in April. Yeah, we'll be out there in April for anyone listening. We did reach our financing goals. I want to give everyone a thank you for helping fund our trip out to Pentastic. I'm excited to meet all my friends on the East Coast, all of our loyal listeners. I'm going to get one of these t-shirts with Lea Faske's art on it. And then the last one I wrote down here, I want to give a shout out. I want to give a shout out to a Lauren Gray, host of the Backbox Pinball podcast, which was a podcast solely focused on interesting interviews with women in pinball. They haven't uploaded a new episode in about two years, but they did upload regularly for about four years, and they have an impressive back catalog that has over 100 episodes that anyone interested in hearing a lot more about women in pinball should go and check out. And I suggest maybe you start with episode 21 because it features another interview with Zoe Vrabel here. If you're not tired of my voice already, listen to episode 21, Backbox Pinball Podcast, Incredible Pod. So many more women out there to cover if and when they decide that that's something they want to do in the future. I would hope so, but I will include a link in the show notes for all the listeners if you want to click on that and find your way and listen to some of those back episodes. But as you can tell by this episode, pinball's always been shaped and molded by some very talented and dedicated women working in the industry. We hope that this episode has helped to shine some much-needed light on their contributions to the history of the game. They've been vital to the growth and proliferation of pinball, but oftentimes their accomplishments go unrecognized. Besides the many big name women who I'm sure that we forgot, I'm very sorry. I tried to do my best. There are many, many more women who work in the factories, and they have for decades. Stern employs many women on the assembly line floor in very key roles to help manufacture their games. And I'm sure that the other companies do as well. They are the unsung heroes that actually build the games that we all play and enjoy. And pinball is at its best when we have the talents of women working within it. And we hope that we get to see even more women involved in prominent positions in pinball companies in the near future. Because pinball is a game for everyone. And the future growth of the hobby will need their skills and talents. We hope that this very special episode of the Wedgehead Pinball Podcast, at the end of it, I want to just encourage you all to go out and play some pinball on location. Seek out some of the games that we mentioned in particular, if you can find them near you. But even if you can't find a Xenon, or a Margaret Hudson game, or a game engineered by Sylvia Bill Ryan, There are women behind the scenes who help make all of these games that you're playing possible. And next week, Zoe will be back on the show to talk about some of the history and the current state of women's competitive pinball scene. So until next time, good luck. Don't suck. Good luck on suck.

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