# Ep 140: Pinball Expo 40th with Rob Berk

**Source:** LoserKid Pinball Podcast  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2024-06-26  
**Duration:** 74m 34s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://zencastr.com/z/RvccdcBM

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## Analysis

Rob Berk discusses the 40th anniversary of Chicago Pinball Expo (1985-2024), revealing major expansions including a 100,000 sq ft venue, five factory tours, international participation (125+ European attendees), two live bands on Saturday night, a 1930s pinball tournament, and a return to auction format. He shares Expo's evolution from a $200-vendor event with five manufacturers to a collector-focused show, and previews Pat Lawlor as keynote speaker with a panel of legendary designers.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Rob Berk holds the Guinness World Record for the largest private pinball collection with over 1,400 machines — _Josh Roop introduces Rob as having 'just got the Guinness World Record for more than 1,400 machines'_
- [HIGH] Pinball Expo 2024 will occupy 100,000 square feet, up from 66,000 last year and 20,000-25,000 historically — _Rob states 'Expo for years was about a 20,000 to 25,000 square foot vending space...two years ago...66,000...this year it's going to be 100,000'_
- [HIGH] Over 125 international attendees registered from Europe, Japan, Germany, Switzerland, Argentina, Austria, and Australia — _Rob: 'we have well over 125 people so far registered that are coming throughout all parts of Europe, Japan, Germany, Switzerland, Argentina, Austria, Australia'_
- [HIGH] Five factory tours are being offered: Chicago Gaming/Galloping Ghost (Tues), Logan Arcade/American Pinball (Wed), Jersey Jack (Thurs), Stern (Fri) — _Rob confirms tour schedule and Scott verifies corrections: 'Tuesday you have Chicago Gaming and Galloping Ghost. Wednesday is Logan Arcade and American Pinball. Thursday is Jersey Jack. Friday is Stern.'_
- [HIGH] Stern shifted their factory tour from Wednesday to Friday due to internal auditing/bookkeeping — _Rob: 'originally, we had the Stern tour on Wednesday. But about the third month into the planning...Stern reached out to me...we had to move it to Friday'_
- [HIGH] Melvin Williams from Dutch Pinball will bring Alice in Wonderland to Expo, a game originally designed by John Papaduke — _Rob: 'Melvin Williams is coming from Dutch Pinball and he's going to bring...Alice in Wonderland...John Papaduke had created...the prototype way back when'_
- [HIGH] Magic Girl, a rare game with only ~20-22 units produced, will be sold at Expo — _Rob: 'I have a fellow that bought one of the Magic Girl games...he wants to sell it...they produced about 20 or so, 22 or whatever it may be'_
- [HIGH] An auction will be held at Expo on Saturday with Chris Campbell from Captain's Auction — _Rob: 'we're bringing Chris Campbell from Captain's Auction. We're going to have an auction at Expo this year'_
- [HIGH] Rob has collected approximately 75 games from the 1930s era — _Rob: 'I've got about, I don't know, about 75 of them now, and all different sizes and types'_
- [HIGH] Hexa Pinball from France will be a vendor at Expo; they design/create games by order with low production numbers — _Rob: 'a company called Hexa, H-E-X-A, Hexa Pinball. These guys are out of France...their production numbers are...pretty low...they pretty much design by order'_

### Notable Quotes

> "To me, the 40th is a fantastic banner year. And to make it this far, you know, just think basically one promoter to do one show...one guy, 40 years, it's like this guy almost lost his mind."
> — **Rob Berk**, early
> _Reflects on the achievement of running a single-promoter show for 40 years_

> "Expo has really opened up the pinball community to an international community...I went out with a guy from Italy for lunch, and now we're friends. He's invited me to his home."
> — **Rob Berk**, mid
> _Highlights Expo's role in building international pinball friendships and community_

> "The collectors are probably one of their biggest customers. So it's interesting how things have evolved."
> — **Rob Berk**, mid
> _Notes the shift from operator-focused sales to collector-driven market over 40 years_

> "When The Wizard of Oz was announced, it really put some juice into the tank. And people started really stepping up saying, we want better games."
> — **Rob Berk**, mid
> _Identifies Wizard of Oz as a key inflection point in the pinball industry's resurgence_

> "When all the Pac-Man games and all the video games came...that was something that they had to weather and get back into."
> — **Scott (co-host)**, mid
> _References the video game market collapse of 1982 and its impact on pinball_

> "I kind of opened the door to communication with these guys where they kind of met and talked to each other like they were bosom buddies."
> — **Rob Berk**, mid
> _Describes Expo's role in breaking down competitive isolation between manufacturers (Gottlieb, Williams, etc.)_

> "Pat Lawlor would clear out his desk at Williams and pass out stuff left and right...parts and prototypes and stuff he made in various games."
> — **Rob Berk**, late
> _Illustrates Pat Lawlor's generous engagement with Expo audiences and his popularity as a speaker_

> "40 hours of seminars. No other show does to the extent we do."
> — **Rob Berk**, late
> _Highlights Expo's competitive advantage in educational/speaker programming_

> "I thought maybe a few things will leak out."
> — **Rob Berk**, early
> _Rob teases unrevealed surprises and entertainment at the 40th anniversary event_

> "Whatever you experience at this show, it's going to be the top of my game...this guy has lost his mind in a good way."
> — **Rob Berk**, early
> _Describes his commitment to creating an exceptional 40th anniversary experience_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Rob Berk | person | Founder and promoter of Chicago Pinball Expo for 40 years (1985-2024); holds Guinness World Record for largest private pinball collection (1,400+ machines); owns Pastimes Arcade in Girard, Ohio |
| Chicago Pinball Expo | event | Annual pinball industry trade show and community gathering founded in 1985; 40th anniversary in 2024; largest dedicated pinball industry show with 40+ hours of seminars; 100,000 sq ft venue |
| Melvin Williams | person | Designer at Dutch Pinball; bringing Alice in Wonderland to Expo 2024, a game originally designed by John Papaduke |
| Pat Lawlor | person | Legendary pinball designer; keynote speaker at Expo 40th with panel including Larry DeMar, Greg Ferris, Roger Sharp, Chris Graner, Bill Krupp, Jack Wensley, Steve Ritchie; known for giving away parts and prototypes |
| Dutch Pinball | company | Pinball manufacturer; Melvin Williams representing at Expo 2024 |
| Alice in Wonderland | game | Pinball machine being brought to Expo 2024 by Dutch Pinball; originally designed by John Papaduke |
| Hexa Pinball | company | French pinball manufacturer with low production numbers; design-by-order model; attending Expo 2024 as vendor |
| Magic Girl | game | Rare pinball game with approximately 20-22 units produced; one boxed unit to be sold at Expo 2024 |
| Stern Pinball | company | Last manufacturer standing after Williams closure; surviving company that led industry resurgence with games like Tron, AC/DC; offering factory tour at Expo 2024 on Friday |
| Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Pinball manufacturer offering factory tour at Expo 2024 on Thursday; Ken Cromwell facilitated tour for hosts |
| American Pinball | company | Pinball manufacturer offering factory tour at Expo 2024 on Wednesday with Logan Arcade |
| Chicago Gaming | company | Pinball manufacturer offering factory tour at Expo 2024 on Tuesday |
| Galloping Ghost | location | Arcade venue included in Expo factory tour on Tuesday |
| Logan Arcade | location | Arcade venue included in Expo factory tour on Wednesday |
| Williams | company | Historic pinball manufacturer; shut down after Expo around 2000 following Pinball 2000 release; Pat Lawlor designed games there |
| Bally | company | Historic pinball manufacturer; early supporter of Expo in 1985 at $200 vendor fee; Norm Clark represented the company |
| Gottlieb/Premier | company | Historic pinball manufacturer; historically isolated from other manufacturers; Wayne Nines and Alvin Gottlieb represented; Alvin Gottlieb was early Expo speaker |
| Josh Roop | person | Co-host of Loser Kid Pinball Podcast; interviewing Rob Berk; recently toured Stern and Jersey Jack factories |
| Scott | person | Co-host of Loser Kid Pinball Podcast; co-interviewer with Josh Roop |
| Captain's Auction | company | Auction company bringing auction format back to Expo in 2024; Chris Campbell representing; historically U.S. Amusement Auction Company from Louisville, Kentucky ran auctions at early Expos |
| Roger Sharp | person | Pinball historian and industry figure; panelist at Pat Lawlor's keynote at Expo 40th; involved in legalization of pinball machines |
| Alvin Gottlieb | person | Executive from Premier/Gottlieb; early Expo supporter and speaker; delivered 3.5-hour slide presentation covering all Gottlieb games |
| Video Game Summit | event | Retro video game show being incorporated into Expo 2024 by Rob's son's request; 20-30 vendors selling cartridges and consoles |
| Flippin' Out Pinball | company | Pinball sales/trade/accessories company owned by Zach and Nicole; sponsor of Loser Kid Podcast |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Pinball Expo 40th Anniversary Planning and Expansions, International Pinball Community and Global Participation, Factory Tours (Stern, Jersey Jack, American Pinball, Chicago Gaming), Pinball Industry History and Evolution (1985-2024), Manufacturer Participation and Partnerships
- **Secondary:** 1930s Pinball Tournament and Collector Focus, Pat Lawlor Keynote and Designer Panel, Entertainment Programming (Live Bands, Auction)

### Sentiment

**Positive** (0.88) — Rob Berk is enthusiastic and proud about the 40th anniversary, celebrating the show's evolution and community impact. He expresses satisfaction with international participation, manufacturer support, and the growth from a small $200-vendor event to a 100,000 sq ft show. Some mild concern about overextension ('getting heat from the misses'), but overall tone is celebratory and optimistic. Hosts are engaged and excited about the event.

### Signals

- **[business_signal]** Rob's wife expressing concern about overexpansion and inability to fill 100,000 sq ft venue; indicates potential friction over event scope and risk tolerance. (confidence: medium) — Rob: 'my wife was really on me...How are you going to fill that thing up? What are you doing?...I'm getting a lot of heat from the misses'
- **[business_signal]** Stern delayed factory tour from Wednesday to Friday due to internal auditing/bookkeeping requirements, indicating potential internal business processes or strategic review ongoing at manufacturer. (confidence: medium) — Rob: 'Stern reached out to me...they've got some sort of internal bookkeeping or auditing going on in the company, and we had to move it to Friday'
- **[community_signal]** Expo positioning as community-focused festival rather than traditional trade show; evolution from manufacturer-to-distributor focus to collector-and-player emphasis; international networking explicitly celebrated as key value proposition. (confidence: high) — Rob notes shift from operators as primary customers to collectors; emphasizes international friendships forming at Expo; Scott questions whether Expo has 'morphed' from manufacturer trade show to fan event; Rob adds Video Game Summit and expanded social programming
- **[community_signal]** Pat Lawlor designated as keynote speaker with panel of 8 legendary designers (Larry DeMar, Greg Ferris, Roger Sharp, Chris Graner, Bill Krupp, Jack Wensley, Steve Ritchie) for 40-year history retrospective; underscores industry recognition of design lineage and mentorship. (confidence: high) — Rob: 'Pat Lawlor agreed to speak this year...calling it The 40 Years of Pinball Expo, 1985 to 2024...his panel...Larry DeMar, Greg Ferris, Roger Sharp, Chris Graner...Bill Krupp, Jack Wensley, and Steve Ritchie'
- **[market_signal]** Pinball industry evolution narrative: from isolated competitive manufacturers (Gottlieb/Williams/Bally) to collaborative international community; from operator-focused sales model to collector-driven market; from survival (1990s-2000s) to resurgence (post-2010). (confidence: high) — Rob traces Expo's role in opening communication between manufacturers who 'didn't intermingle'; notes collectors now represent major customer segment contrary to early assumptions; describes Williams' closure and Stern's resurrection via themed games like AC/DC and Tron
- **[event_signal]** Return of auction format to Expo after 40-year gap; Captain's Auction bringing U.S. Amusement Auction Company tradition back with Saturday evening event. (confidence: high) — Rob: 'we used to do an auction every year...U.S. Amusement Auction Company...they were out of Louisville, Kentucky...we're bringing Chris Campbell from Captain's Auction...auction at Expo this year...Saturday'
- **[event_signal]** Chicago Pinball Expo 40th anniversary (2024) is the largest expansion in show history with 100,000 sq ft venue, five factory tours, 125+ international attendees, live entertainment, return of auction format, and 1930s tournament—representing significant escalation of community gathering scale and prestige. (confidence: high) — Rob confirms venue size increase from 66,000 to 100,000 sq ft, five factory tours across manufacturers, 125+ European registrants, dual live bands Saturday night, Captain's Auction return, and 1930s pinball tournament with 15-20 machines
- **[market_signal]** Collectors represent significant revenue segment for manufacturers, contradicting early industry assumptions that operators/locations were primary customers; market segment shift documented over 40 years. (confidence: high) — Rob: 'Roger Sharp...said...we don't really make any money being here because your people don't buy machines. We sell them to the operators. Well, guess what happened, guys? You can play turnaround now. The collectors are probably one of their biggest customers.'
- **[community_signal]** Melvin Williams confirmed at Dutch Pinball presenting Alice in Wonderland (originally John Papaduke design); significant game release at Expo 2024. (confidence: high) — Rob: 'Melvin Williams is coming from Dutch Pinball and he's going to bring...Alice in Wonderland...John Papaduke had created...the prototype way back when'
- **[announcement]** Magic Girl pinball machine (rare, ~20-22 units produced) to be sold at Expo 2024; collector-grade rarity offering opportunity. (confidence: high) — Rob: 'I have a fellow that bought one of the Magic Girl games...he wants to sell it, and he's going to sell it at Expo...they produced about 20 or so, 22 or whatever it may be'
- **[technology_signal]** Integration of retro video game segment (Video Game Summit) into pinball-focused Expo, indicating expanding definition of arcade/gaming nostalgia market and cross-pollination with younger demographics. (confidence: medium) — Rob: 'my son, who is 22 now, he's one of these guys that's into the retro video games, the Atari, Nintendo...we're incorporating his show into Expo...It's called the Video Game Summit...20 or 30 vendors...old cartridges...old game consoles'

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## Transcript

 thanks for tuning into the loser kid pinball podcast i am josh roop with me my co-captain and today we've got a pretty awesome guest on but before we do that scott who do we always talk about at the beginning of this shenanigans you know what if you want to pick up your new pinball machine go ahead and hit up zach and nicole at flipping out pinball So, you know, the good news is they have all the new stuff. But if you're also looking, they're taking in trades and they're always listing deals for, you know, the older games, too. So that's something to look at to say, hey, if you have that past title that you're looking for. But if you're looking for the new stuff, we talked about the Jaws, the Jaws accessories last week. So if you want to take your Jaws to the next level, reach out to them. And they are well known for toppers and accessories and all things pinball. So go ahead and contact them, Zach and Nicole Mini at Flip N Out Pinball. Definitely. And one more thing before we move on. Scott and I want to give a quick shout to Neil Shelton, the new owner of Silver Ball Swag. He's come out with a whole new line of shirts, and the logos are impeccable. We're both wearing our shirts tonight. We just got them today. You got them today. Mine is Nintendo theme. So mine's the America. So it's a flipper and a flag. So the America. Yeah, mine's Nintendo theme. It says pinball in the retro Nintendo logo. Go there, get yourself a shirt, grab yourself some Loser Kid shoes and a shirt, whatever it may be. But check that out, silverballswag.com if you're looking specifically for us at slashloserkid. All right, I think we've held off too long. We should introduce our guest. This man just got the Guinness World Record for more than 1,400 machines in his location. He's been over Pinball Expo for coming up on 40 years now. We have with us Rob Burke How are you doing Rob? Good Josh, I'm tickled to be here To see Scott Is unbelievable I've been looking for him for years at Expo I've been to Expo I've been to Expo Alright I couldn't come last year I couldn't come last year But I will say this You guys are styling and profiling with your shirts I never got mine so just FYI Neil you better get him a shirt You better get Rob a shirt. We'll figure it out. Yeah, definitely. Anyway, we'll at least get you a cap. We have some sweet Loser Kid caps. I'm wearing one right now. Yeah. There you go. So, Rob, this is a pretty epic year. You've been doing this for 40 years now. I know you're doing an extra day for Expo. Is there any more insight you can give us to the shenanigans you're going to be doing that are extra this year for 40th? You know, there's going to be a lot of extras. There's so many things. it's almost like I'm excited to think about it, but I can't tell anybody because it's, I want everyone to just be like every turn. Oh my gosh. Next turn. Oh, this is cool. Because, you know, for the 40th, my wife was really on me. Like, what are you doing? You're knocking yourself out. Why are you doing all this stuff? But to me, the 40th is a fantastic banner year. And to make it this far, you know, just think basically one promoter to do one show. I mean, as you know, Texas is a big show, but, you know, they've gone through some changes. And some other shows have been around for a while. But one guy, 40 years, it's like this guy almost lost his mind. But, you know, I'm glad to do it. And it's all about the hobby. And it's great to see people smiling and have a good time. And that's what I get my satisfaction out of. But there's so much happening, guys, I can't tell you. You know, the one thing I've tried to do real hard is bring in the international aspect to Expo. And I always get a kick out of when people say, hey, I went out with a guy from Italy for lunch, and now we're friends. He's invited me to his home. You know, Expo has really opened up the pinball community to an international community. And everyone speaks English for the most part. and we have well over 125 people so far registered that are coming throughout all parts of Europe, Japan, Germany, Switzerland, Argentina, Austria, Australia. I mean, the list goes on and on. So to me, that's really satisfying. And it's cool to me also to have these guys, some of these guys have actually volunteered to speak at the show. So that to me is really pretty wild. But there's so much going on. I mean, you're welcome to ask me some questions, and maybe a few things will leak out. But I will say that starting off with, you know, Wednesday evening when we have our get-together, normally we have, like, chips and potatoes and some of the very basics. Even that's going to be notched up. So whatever you experience at this show, it's going to be the top of my game as far as offering you guys an experience that you'll just shake your head and say, this guy has lost his mind in a good way. This is just a blast. It's beyond a blast. How do you put it into words? So I want everyone to have a great experience, even starting off with four different pinball tours. That's crazy. That is awesome. So we're doing that. And we're also offering a tour of Logan Arcade. So it would be Logan Arcade And American Pinball one day I'm sorry Logan Arcade And American Pinball You're right Tuesday is Chicago Gaming I can't remember All the places we're going Okay so I'm looking at right now So Tuesday you have Chicago Gaming And Galloping Ghost Wednesday you're featured is Logan Arcade and American Pinball Thursday is Jersey Jack Friday is Stern. Yeah. So, I mean, everything for everybody, I guess. You know, one of our old taglines used to be Pinball Expo, the everything for everyone show. So we're kind of bringing that back again with just so many things we're going to be doing. It's almost mind-boggling. You know, I have a feeling I'm going to get some negative press when this thing's all done. Like, you did too much. I couldn't go to everything. I couldn't be everywhere because there's just so much to choose from that, I mean, you can do it, but you're going to go home mighty exhausted. Well, Rob, the hotel you have is – Sorry. Go ahead, Josh. I was just going to say the hotel you have is massive, and it sold out quick. Right. And that's crazy that people are already in anticipation. This is – people are excited to come see what's going on. What did you have to say, Scott? Oh, well, what I was saying is that if you look at – okay, Expo has morphed over the years, and I do want to get back to the origin of it and how it's changed. But what I want to focus on is what are the things that have made this year – what have you brought from this year that you didn't have last year? It seems that this is more of a fan event, whereas expos historically have been more of for the manufacturers to promote and sell games to distributors or people who are buying them for location. Well, I think the one thing is I'm trying to get every manufacturer under the sun to be a vendor there. And the one guy that I'm kind of excited about is a company called Hexa, H-E-X-A, Hexa Pinball. These guys are out of France. You know, their production numbers are, I think, pretty low. I think they pretty much design by order or create a game by order. But they'll become Dexpo. So to me, that's going to be really interesting. I use the word interesting because, I mean, we don't know what to expect from these guys. But every major manufacturer Every boutique manufacturer will be there Melvin Williams Is coming from Dutch Pinball And He's going to bring I think Alice in Wonderland In public knowledge He's kind of advertising that This is the game that John John John Had created And I saw the prototype Way back when when John was still alive people to tour Zedware. But that game is becoming a reality, and he's not going to stop there. So that's pretty wild. And speaking of kind of unique games, we're bringing back Magic Girl. It made its debut a couple years ago at Expo, but I have a fellow that bought one of the Magic Girl games. It's still in the box, and he wants to sell it, and he's going to sell it at Expo. Now whether he gets the price He wants for it I don't know But if you guys know anything About the history of Magic Girl I think they produced about 20 or so 22 or whatever it may be So anyone that's looking to buy A really truly rare game It'll be there Plus another surprise I guess it's a surprise Although we've listed it We're bringing Chris Campbell from Captain's Auction We're going to have an auction at Expo this year Oh really For the old-timers out there, we used to do an auction every year. It was called U.S. Amusement Auction Company. They were out of Louisville, Kentucky, but they used to come every year. And this is back when the majority of games we auctioned were EM games, just to give you an idea how far back this goes. But that's something new that I'm looking forward to seeing, and that's going to be happening on Saturday. Saturday evening we're doing something I've never done before. I'm hoping it is success. Maybe yes, maybe no. but I'm bringing not one but two bands into the hall on Saturday evening. They're going to start at 9, and they're going to go until like 1 or 2 o'clock in the morning. So, you know, when you come to Expo, you meet a lot of friends, and you're high-fiving and everything, but I felt the last day, hey, let's hook up, and we'll have a beer together or we'll listen to the band together, and let's act goofy and rock and roll and jump around and really enjoy our last moments together. So it's just a thought. I hope it goes well. And that will be going on in our third hall, and that's something else new this year is, you know, Expo for years was about a 20,000 to 25,000 square foot vending space. And then two years ago when I moved to this new hotel, we went to 66,000, which is kind of crazy. This year it's going to be 100,000 Wow So this is where I'm getting a lot of heat from the misses How are you going to fill that thing up What are you doing But we are going to fill it up And there's so much fun things Going to be happening I will share one thing that to me is exciting Not everybody Is into the 1930s games And these are the games of course That started it all No flippers And whatnot not. So some of the shows, they've had this little 30s exhibit. Well, what we're doing is with Jeff Rick and some of the other guys that collect the 30s games, we are going to have a 1930s tournament. So imagine this guys out there in Radio Land or is this Radio Land? Is that TV Land? Sure, we'll go Radio Land. It's Podcast Land and YouTube Land. Yeah, Pinball Land. Imagine a booth 30 by 30 with a Persian rug in the middle, a 1930-ish black leather couch, a 1930-ish, I don't know even they call them the lamps, where it's got the lampshade that kind of tips down. and we're going to have about 15 to 20 games from the 30s set up in a tournament type of arrangement with trophies and plaques or whatever for the winners. So I'm assuming you're going to have some rock oldos like jigsaw and baseball? Absolutely. Oh, my goodness. I have seen these games. I've never got to play these games. That's exciting. Well, see, what's crazy is – And it's all my fault because I'm so goofy. You know, when I put this collection together, and we can get to my collection here in a minute, but, you know, when you have a collection as extensive as I do, it's like, where do you go and what do you collect next? So I had a couple of 30s games in my collection, and then the more I kind of looked at them and saw how basic they were, but at the time how some of the original designs, the introduction of lights even, and the introduction of some of the, I'm not saying ramps, but curved metal pieces just to make the ball kind of go some different direction. The more I got into it, the more I said, boy, this is kind of cool. Well, that's all I needed to start thinking about. Now I'm buying 30s games. Nice. Okay, where do you buy 30s games? Kate, there can be a huge amount of them out there because LaGuardia, like chop them all up. Yeah, good point. Yeah. The bottom of the East River Is that word there? That's where he's fishing them out Let me write this down I might check out when we hang up But anyways You know a lot of fellow third-rate collector guys Would help out And then eBay occasionally Craigslist occasionally And some of these auction sites occasionally But you know I've got about I don't know about 75 of them now And of all different Sizes and types But a couple of the very, very early ones were produced in Youngstown, Ohio, which is 15 miles from where I live. So, again, for the old timers, they may remember there was a machine called Wiffle. Well, Wiffle was produced in Youngstown, Ohio, and the son of the founder spoke at Pinball Expo. So I guess that kind of resonated in my mind, you know, thinking way, way, way back in the early years of Expo. and kind of recreate, you know, I found that game called Whiffle. I found that and a couple of others that were made in Youngstown, Ohio. Very basic, just nails and holes in the middle of it. It's just nothing to speak of, nothing to get excited about. But the more you look at them and how the games evolved, you can appreciate, let's put it that way, you can appreciate how the industry has grown. So I'm collecting those games now. And then when I talked to Jeff, he's out of Texas, I said, what do you think about doing a tournament with these 30 games? And he says, man, that sounds like fun. So the one guy, Cliff, he's out of Chicago. His wife's going to – turns up as a flapper. And, you know, they're getting into it. So that's going on. And another thing is – I don't know, so many things. So Pinball Expo has been my dream show. But I've been – my son, who is 22 now, He's one of these guys that's into the retro video games, the Atari, Nintendo, all that. So I've kind of hooked up with a guy in Chicago who I've known for several years, and we're incorporating his show into Expo. It's called the Video Game Summit. I saw that, yeah. 20 or 30 vendors there are selling the old cartridges, you know, those old PlayStations. Oh, yeah. Okay, that's what I grew up on. That's what I grew up on. And I'm not saying that's my complete audience, But, you know, it's kind of cool to see it So that'll be part of the show this year And I hope I don't get too much flack for that But, you know, it's something my son likes So I kind of promote that angle But just for his sake, you know I'm not going to be around forever And this is something that he enjoys But that'll be part of the show And more So maybe as we're talking You guys might squeak something out of me But, you know, I'm really super excited We are going to get into more of this, but before that happens, tell people when the show is, where it is, and if they want to come, what they need to do. Well, go to the website, pinballexpo.com, and it'll give you a real clear explanation of what's happening. The show runs, for all practical purposes, the 17th and 19th, which is Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. but then you know I've added the two additional days of October thank you sir so I've added the two additional days the 15th and 16th for those who want to come just for the tours only but the seminars will be like they always have been Thursday, Friday and Saturday so that won't change so the one thing I want to share with the audience is initially originally we had the Sturm tour on Wednesday but about the third month into the planning of the show, Stern reached out to me, and they've got some sort of internal bookkeeping or auditing going on in the company, and we had to move it to Friday. So just as an FYI. But that current information on the website is current, and people that have bought their ticket for a Wednesday tour will still honor it, but it will now be a Friday tour. Okay. and Josh and I just got back from the tour like what a month ago yeah and yeah just it's amazing I go and see how the machines are made it's it's awesome up close uh we also uh have tour jersey jack too and they have a great assembly thing uh Ken Cromwell was willing to give us a little tour and that was a blast I'm looking forward to seeing you know the CGC and American Pinball too to to get all four in the area. So that's an amazing opportunity. Yeah, I can't wait to see Stern again because they promised that they going to have that even more filled out and decorated for Expo They even I not sure if the right words warn me but they say we are going to put on an event that you guys will not blow your mind So that's another reason to come. You know, guys, you've got to think about something. Pinball Expo started in 1985, and back then, you know, you've got a bunch of enthusiasts, collectors, players, historians, but enthusiasts, entering the industry. And by that time, I became friends with Norm Clark, who worked at Bally. I became friends with Alvin Godlub, who had the connections at Premier, and became friends with Steve Kordick, who had connections at Williams. So I said, guys, I have this dream about doing this pinball show. And if I do, would you consider being a vendor there? Well, they all agree. First of all, the Bally said first, okay, we'll be there. Because back then we were charged like $200 to be a vendor. I mean, to those guys who used to pay $1,000 or more for a booth, $200 is like, what? That's nothing. So they came, and then William said, well, Bally's coming, we're going to come. And the Bally said, they're coming, I'll be there. But imagine, William's got a booth, and right next to them is John Doe selling his parts, used parts, and have beat up machines. So it was crazy at the time, you know. But they gave me the support. I always felt from day one that the Expo couldn't survive without the support of the industry. And that's why I did the show in Chicago. But it was a lot of fun in the early years. And they would often say to me, starting with Roger Sharp, he said, you know, we come to this show, but we don't really make any money being here because your people don't buy machines. We sell them to the operators. Well, guess what happened, guys? You can play turnaround now. The collectors are probably one of their biggest customers. So it's interesting how things have evolved. But in the early years, that was their mindset. But as many years as they told me that, they still came to the show. So back in those days, we toured Premier. We toured Game Plan. You name every manufacturer there is. and it was fascinating because that was a closed industry. And I remember talking to people at Premier, a.k.a. Gottlieb, whether it be Wayne Neyens or Alvin, these guys were really quiet and they didn't mingle with the other manufacturers. So I kind of opened the door to communication with these guys where they kind of met and talked to each other like they were bosom buddies. It was really a lot of fun in the early years. tell me how pinball now that's the early years tell me how it's evolved over the 40 years because you've had some booms boom years you've had some some lean years to say the least uh and it seems like uh even in you know the late 90s 2000s pinball was really on life support uh and started really getting a resurgence in the last 15 years. So lead me through how the Expo has changed. Yeah, you're dead on because I remember, like you said, was it 90 or whatever year that was when Stern was the last man standing? Yeah, it was the 2000. William shut down after Expo, really. So that was after Pinball 2000. So then Stern was the last one standing really for about 10 years. And then when the game over my left shoulder, Wizard of Oz, when it was announced, it really put some juice into the tank. And people started really stepping up saying, we want better games. We're willing to pay for better games. And that seemed to really revitalize the pinball industry because, you know, OK, I know there are people who love Big Buck Hunter, Nick Lane, but that wasn't the game that was selling a lot. But, you know, you start off with ACDC, you started with Tron, you started with these games that really started taking traction and then it's exploded since then. So I'm wondering how each era of the Expo has evolved. Well I think it kind of evolved slowly First of all Back in 85 we had five different companies And then That number kept going down and down And then What was it When all the Pac-Man games And all the videos came Yeah There was the video games in the 80s And you had the video game market collapse That happened in 82 As well And so that was That was just something that they had to Carl Weathers And to get back into But I just recall Gary Stern when he was the last company Going they had one Gone down to one production line Yep And he even said to him he says We're not going to say no to the tour We made a commitment to it But the tour there wasn't a lot to see A lot to show a lot to talk about Because there were on pins and needles about just the company even staying alive. Yep. And somehow they got through that year, and things have only gone upwards since that time. But, you know, I've seen all the evolution of, we talked earlier, the mods, the evolution of companies coming and going, and the evolution of play field designs. I mean, it just goes on forever. So let's get rid of Pepe here in a second. Hey, can you be quiet? I'm on the podcast. So And the evolution of the hotels I've been through five different hotels With Expo Some of the earlier people used to always make fun of the Rosemont Hotel And in fact I used to sell buttons And the button said I've survived Pinball Expo and Rosemont You know it was like It was like the laugh of the day But The different people we had speaking You know in the early years we used to have the banquets every year We had guest speakers speaking So That kind of reminds me of the first year When I went to Alvin Gottlieb And I said Alvin would you consider Speaking at an expo again I didn't know him He was just a complete stranger And he said why don't you come to my house We'll talk about it so I go to his house I'm envisioning this huge mansion With marble everywhere and like The two lions on both sides you know Sitting there waiting for people to enter the house And I go there just an average house and you know i'm thinking he's wearing a tuxedo or a suit when i come to the door he's wearing blue jeans and a white shirt you know could you think gollum this big giant behemoth but he was real down to earth and i told him my whole dream about doing the show and he and i said you know to me this the expo won't really happen unless we have a guest speaker of your magnitude he said you got so much passion how can i say no yes i'll be your speaker and alvin gollum spoke at the banquet three and a half hours. He had a slide presentation of every game starting with Humpty Dumpty, every game they had made and had a storyline for each one of them. There was a lot of people squirming in their seats for that third hour. That was a long banquet. That's a long talk, yes. I remember we had a talk Or that's also just one question with Roger Sharp. Yeah. We had a guy by the name of Rufus King talk. He was the attorney that handled the legalization of pinball machines, if they were gambling or not. And Joe Kamikow, good old Joe Kamikow, was sitting in the front row. And Joe, every time I looked over at him, he had his hand, and like he was slicing his throat, like, cut this guy, cut him, you know. So I'm looking at Joe, and I go, oh, Joe. And then this guy is talking and dragging on. You know, it was so – the guy was an attorney, so it was so dry. I didn't know. I thought it might be interesting. So finally, you know, Joe's ready to stand up. And then I stand up to this guy, Rufus, and I said, hey, I think it's lasting too long. We're going to cut it short. So he cut his talk short. He would have been there for hours too. Another favorite thing I'll share And we can go into more questions from you guys But the second year that we did Expo We had Alvin as the speaker again But he was a plant And what I wanted to do Is I wanted to recognize Steve Corder for what he had done In the industry So what Alvin said was I want to talk for about 10 minutes or 5 or 10 minutes And when I mentioned this guy's name was a distributor In California you come up and interrupt me So he starts talking and people were getting into it. And then there was this, whatever this distributor was. Well, I slowly stood up and I looked sideways. I says, can't you talk about anything more interesting? Well, if you're going to see the faces on the people there sitting there, you know, watching this banquet, it was priceless. So he said, yeah, let's talk about Steve Kornick. So then we brought Steve Kornick up front and then we roasted them all night. But that was a lot of fun Speaking of speakers Don't you have a special thing coming up With Pat Lawler at Expo? Yeah, thanks for asking Josh So Pat Lawler Has always been A very popular speaker at Expo In fact, every one of his seminars Were always packed And then I coined his seminar The Pat Lawler Show And he would bring he would clear out his desk at Williams and pass out stuff left and right. And back when they, when they made as family, you know, it was like, it was like the running joke greed. And then he would, he'd want to give something away. He's not, I better not. And then everybody, I say greed, you know? So, I mean, it was just so much fun with Pat in those early years and he spoke and spoke and spoke with Williams, But what people loved about him was all the stuff he used to give away. And he'd have, like, tickets, and he'd pull your ticket out, and he'd give you something. And they were basically parts and prototypes and stuff he made in various games over the years. He would just clean his desk out. And Pat Lawler agreed to speak this year. And I'm excited about that because I know how popular he was, and we all know the great games he's built over the years. So Pat Lawler is giving a talk. And just to give you an idea, he's calling it the 40 years of Pinball Expo 1985 to 2024. So, you know, he's planning on giving a brief history of those years. And on his panel, he's going to have Larry DeMar, Greg Freres, Roger Sharp, Chris Granner, who's the sound guy, Bill Krupp, Jack Guarnieri, and Steve Ritchie. And so for the newer guys, maybe they don't really appreciate or recognize some of these names, but those people have been around for a while. They do. Pat's talk will be Friday at 9 p.m., but I guarantee you that room will be packed because he does a fantastic job, and he engages the audience a lot. So that's one thing that you'll want to, if you're coming to the show, you really want to make an effort to see it. It's going to be really fantastic. Okay, what day is that again? Friday night. Friday night, okay. I'm glancing at the reference schedule, and I'm not seeing it right now, so you may want to update that. Well, what we do is typically I don't come out with a schedule of events until, for not argument's sake, maybe July. Okay. Because, you know, I'm still getting people, I'm stepping forward to people, hey, can you speak? Yes, no, and then, you know, you wait for people to get back to you. but it's going to be another full schedule. Okay. Thursday, Saturday. So you're saying keep that in mind. Friday is an, is a don't miss seminar with Pat Lawler. But we, we do about 40 hours of seminars. No, no show does to the extent we do. And we, we try to cover a lot of interesting topics from a lot of different people. So we have a couple of questions from, from people that have written in. It sounds like the Alvin Gottlieb one I don't know if that was your most memorable seminar But Colin from Kineticist And This Week in Pinball want to know What are the most memorable seminar sessions Or speakers you've had from any past expo Great question And I will say the first expo It was called Meet the Pinball Designers So we had Koronek from Valley Or from Williams Norm Clark from Valley And Wayne Neyens from Gottlieb And Wayne Neyens, being from Gottlieb, being from the culture of Gottlieb, they didn't really intermingle with any other manufacturer. So it was really kind of the first time that he was on a panel with Kordek and Clark side by side to him. They would say hi and, you know, it shows, but never to that degree. and after that seminar they sat there, the three of them sat and talked and talked and talked because it was such a taboo thing back in the day. God was like in their own little circle of friends and they didn't intermingle with any of the manufacturers. So for him to be with these other two guys was like wow. So it was just so cool to see it happen. That was a favorite seminar of mine. Man, there's so many of them. Imagine guys 40 years with a samurai it's just hard to remember the early years just like being in high school you remember the early years in high school you can't remember near the end but there were so many people that spoke and people that talked about and finding people that's to be there at the show it was man I just don't know where to start I'll have to have my paperwork with me I will say this I'm planning on giving a talk at Expo with that exact question. The highlights of 40 years of Pinball Expo. I'm working on that now between pictures and my notes as far as some of the highlights of 40 years. It's just nuts. Oh, yeah. Well, Julianne Talbot and Baba Hafez both asked, what's your vision for Pinball Expo going forward after this? Maybe for the next five years? and are you looking to mentor for a successor or anything like that? Well, it's funny you should say because I was going to see Josh if you would consider taking over the show. Josh would be great. He'd be great. Sold. I'll do it. You know, I talked to my wife about this, and she says, you know, do you think this is the last hurrah? You know, my thinking right now is this. I put so much heart and passion into the show that if I were to hand it over to anybody, how could they have the feelings and emotions and passion that I do? You know, being my baby, you could say, for 40 years. It's hard for someone else just to walk in and just have the same hunger and interest and level of excitement like I have. But, you know, I'm going to keep going after the 40th. You know, the 40th is such a milestone. Like, how do you top it? You know, can I make it to the 50th? And you know I say we'll say this You know when you start Getting older the bones don't quite Work like they used to And that's the only thing that would slow me down But right now you know I'm healthy And I hope to keep on going And Hope to make this show interesting And fascinating I've always tried every year to add Some element to make it different From previous years so We hope to keep on going how long I don't know I guess someone walks up to me and says Hey, my name is Josh Hi, my name is Scott Do you guys want me to take over the show for you? And, you know, timing is everything in life It could be the right time Scotty, tell the wife Yeah, we're moving to Chicago There you go Rob does it from Ohio So that's impressive That's true Isn't that crazy? You know, because most people live in the town where they do the show Yep, you're right That is crazy Well, okay, so we have another Now you have, what is it, how many games? 1,400? So here's the story, guys. I've been collecting for a long time to the point where my memories fail me a little bit. So sometimes I've got three of one title and six of another. Golf stream, I finally had six of them. I can't believe that. But my daughter reached out to Guinness for whatever reason. Okay. And this year we celebrated our first year anniversary at Pastimes. So what Pastimes is, is an arcade museum that I put together with the idea of a place where I could show my collection. And initially I thought, let me buy a building and put a half a dozen games in there, a dozen games in there, and I can come and go when I want. I just bring a key with me and go in there and play for a couple of hours and call it a night. So my wife said, you're crazy. What are you putting all that work in this place? It was a 30,000 square foot grocery store. So we cleared the grocery store cleared the aisles out took out the drop ceiling painted the walls I mean you know the list goes on and on And we start putting the games in you know 50 100 200 300 400 And during that same time I was collecting pinball machines, I was collecting upright arcade games. Why? I don't know. But I was collecting. I had, you know, the whole Pac-Man series. So Pac-Man, Ms. Pac-Man, Mr. and Mrs. Pac-Man, Baby Pac-Man, Super Pac-Man, Pac-Land and there's one I still don't have yet the Professor Pac-Man, that's the one I haven't found yet, but I'm kind of one of these guys that's the completest if I have a certain type of game I want to get all of them and I start buying these games and I start putting them in the museum so we had our one year anniversary recently and my daughter said the press was down there, my daughter said hang around for a second so I said okay I take nothing of it, and then she hands me this plaque or something wrapped up. So I open it up, and congratulations on behalf of Guinness. You know, you are the single largest owner of pinball machines. Now, this is single title. This isn't all the duplicates. Okay. You're right when you said 1,400. That's including the duplicates. But it was 1,040 different title games. And one of my workers today just said Oh by the way you're up to 1090 now You know there's a time period You know whenever you present And then you got to give them all the You have to have the stats Yeah So then the guy said I'm at 1090 now I never thought of it And I can't believe it And frankly a lot of these games I'd like to set up More of the games And I'd like to set up a whole area just for the 30s games And let's face it you can't get real excited about the 30 games, but to see so many of them in one spot, it's like, wow, this is cool. So then a guy by the name of Oscar Terrell reaches out to me. We're going back a year or two. And he says, hi, I'm from Spain. I'm thinking about coming to Pinball Expo. So at the time, we were playing with the family to go to Spain. He said, hey, we're going to be in Spain in two months. I'd like to meet you. He says, sure, come on. So I meet the guy. And he turns me on to a collector in Spain, Barcelona, who's got this massive collection. But guess what? I didn't recognize one title. All the games were made in Spain. They had their own unique titles, own unique playfields, own unique layouts. I never heard of these guys. So I'm going up and down. I was, hey, man, would you consider selling this stuff? No, this is my personal collection. Well, then I started reaching out to some other people I had met through Expo and so forth. You know, I'm going to start buying. Start, okay? Start, Scotty. Start buying Spanish games. Yep. So various people reached out to me, and I brought in one container, 45 games in Spain, all these crazy, unique titles. I said, man, this is so cool. So I brought them to Expo one year. We had them for the opening night, and people were playing them like crazy, Best way of saying it They were digging it So crazy me There's probably more of them out there So I brought in another 45 games with Spain And Italy Titles you've never heard of before I just fell in love with them I was goofy Well there's another load coming in In about 3 weeks another 20 So it's close to 100 Spanish games So if that wasn't bad enough I'm in Japan because I do a lot of business in China. So I'm visiting one of the Japanese pinball guys. And he's got a Sega pinball. Sega pinball. I never heard of you guys. Sega. Game called Surfing. Okay. Well, I fell in love with it. And I said, would you sell it? Yes. So I ended up buying that game. So then I started thinking to myself, you know, this is kind of cool to have all these screwball titles because the museum everyone's got a medium of madness everyone's got a godzilla everyone's got his family no one's got the crazy spanish game so i started thinking myself i'm gonna start getting goofy even more so i picked up a the game called bullseye 301 made by grand products aftar which is a one of a kind made by waiko yep yeah and um you know i'm buying all these goofy titles and you know for Allied Leisure, you know, they made a half a dozen games. So people had mentioned, you know, do you have any games from Australia? No. I remember the one game, Empire Strikes Back, was made in Australia. Oh, yep, yep, that one. Okay. So I put my feelers out again, and I hook up with the guy, and thanks to Colin helped me with this. And he says I can help you find these games So there's my head I'm getting pumped up man Adrenaline's moving oh boy He said you know they made five different titles In Australia I said five I only knew the one Five He says give me a month or two Don't hear from the guy Reaches out to me He says well I got the Empire for you And four more I got one of every title they ever made I say you gotta be kidding me Wow What were the other titles I haven't heard of the other titles It's in the database Okay Let me see if I can find it here real quick So he sends me a video of these titles I never heard of these games So Crazy me and I end up buying those five Alright You looking up, Josh? You looking them up? I am, I am. Okay, I will say at Pinball Expo, this is three years ago, I saw a game that you had, which was Nemesis, which seemed very, like, 70s fantasy. Yeah. I love the artwork in that game. Okay, the artwork is probably not, like, it wouldn't fly today, but it certainly is very 70s fantasy art. but we had a blast playing it because I'd never seen that. I'm like, I'm never seeing this game again. Okay, here's the five titles. Ready for this? This is from Hankin Pinball. I've never heard of this. So they did make five titles. FJ is their first one, which looks like a racing game. Orbit 1, not to be confused with Orbiter 1. Different. How's that? Which looks like a disco thing. A soccer thing or something. Yeah, maybe it's soccer. Shark, just straight up Shark and then the Empire Strikes Back so guess what guys I'm guessing Empire Strikes Back was the only one that sold it was probably the best game, yeah actually no it wasn't, it said there's only 350 units where Orbit 1 sold 1,020 so it looks like it sold more than the rest of the games combined from their catalog and I'm glad you and Scott are separated because I'm afraid Both of you guys would lunge at me through the TV scope. But imagine just you're excited, but just talking about it. It's like, wow, this is so cool. So anyways, Crazy Meat ends up buying all five of them. Okay. The guy said, oh, by the way. Okay, here's a scoop for you, Scotty. Okay. I found an extra Empire Strikes Back. Whoa. It will be for sale at Expo. I haven't seen one of those in person. I've only seen them on the Internet. Josh, you are the first podcast to hear it from my lips. Nice. All right. So if you want the elusive Hank in Empire Strikes Back, it sounds like it will be for sale in Chicago. If you want the Star Wars collection, absolutely. Yes. All right. You ready, guys? It's going to get crazier again. There's an operator in Texas Going by the Little shop of Whores, a little shop of pinball Yep Okay, so I'm talking to him About my collection And all the different things I got And so forth He said, you gotta get a hold of a friend of mine So The guy's name is Marshall Dickinson Little House of Games, he goes by So he turns around to a guy from Brazil. So I said, I've heard of some games from Brazil. He said, isn't Taito from Brazil? He said, well, actually it's pronounced Taito. I didn't know that. Okay. I don't know. So Taito made quite a few games, but they were all knockoffs of American games. Just different artwork, different layout, maybe a post here, they're moved one way or the other, But basically the same game But They did make one original game Okay Same title as the one That Hank made Was it Jaws was it Shark So Taito made A shark As well And that's the only original game They made That game will be At Pinball Expo Cool Okay so basically the people who really Want to Complete their collection with Eclectic Games It sounds like there will be a lot Available at Expo There will be some really rare ones there for sale So it's going to be Crazy guys and Scott it sounds like you're kind of You like me are kind of intrigued By some of these odd titles But some of the layouts are really cool So Joe Kamiko do you guys know Joe Kamiko We know Joe. End of the show, he's been on. Yeah. So Joe's been down to our place about a month ago. He says, I got to get Gary Stern and his design team down here. He says, there's so many. I mean, imagine, guys. There's about 650. I'm sorry. There's about 450 games of just pinball. And we have about 200 of the video. But he says, there's so many different and unique layouts here of all these games from all different manufacturers. He says, they can't help but get an idea. So when he was there, he called Gary up. He says, you've got to bring some Adonis. This is crazy what I'm seeing here. So, you know, the past times has been a lot of fun. We've had collectors and players come from coast to coast. We had one guy come from Australia, you know, all over the world just to see all these games in one spot. And so one thing we've taken pride on is every game is up. Every game is running. Every game is clean. And every game plays like it's brand new. Now, not to say that any given moment, if you stop in there, you might have two or three down. But for the most part, you know, 95% of the games, if not higher, are all up and running. So people that come there find it to be a really fascinating experience because they have so many games up and running. It's really crazy. We've got five techs. You would have to. We're open Thursday through Sunday, Monday morning, all day Monday, all day Tuesday, all day Wednesday, and half a day Thursday. All they're doing is getting the games up and running again. And where is this? Because people are going to want to come. Yeah, it's in Girard, Ohio. G-I-R-A-R-D, Girard, Ohio. Girard, Ohio is near Youngstown, Ohio. Okay. And the name of the location? Past times. But the closest airport is either Cleveland or Pittsburgh. Okay. I had a guy come down. I just thought about it. I had a guy come down about three months ago from Poland. Crazy. I had a guy come down from Germany. And this guy was just a new pinball guy. And he says, you know, I love pinball. And I work for an airline. You know, we fly all over the world. If I come down to Cleveland, can I come to your museum? I said, heck, yeah. Well, he came down. If I thought he was bad off then, well, he's been totally ruined. So, you know, these stories go on and on. It's easier to get captivated by this hobby Well it sounds like you can You can almost find any game Is there a game So John Lee wants to know Is there a game you don't have Or is there a game that eludes you Um Yeah The one is Made by Gameplan Loch Ness Monster But they only made one or two of those Herb Silvers owned one at one time And then And it seems to weigh around a couple of different places, but that game is hard to find. And if you find it, it would cost ungodly money. It would be like pinball circus or something? You got it, yeah. And that would be a cool game to have. It would be. I hear it's finally up and running. It was kind of under shop for a while. Okay, so one thing I do want to know, with all of your games, and I know that everybody's favorite list changes through time, I want you to give me your top five favorite games right now. All right. Drum roll. Drum roll. Go. So Medial Madness ranks up there tied with Theater of Magic. Okay. Nice. And I'd say Close up there is awesome. I like Papadeuse games. I like Circus Voltaire. Voltaire. I like Monster Bash. It's interesting, guys. Look at these titles. They're all made by Williams or Valley, all in the mid-90s. What was so special in that time? Everything was just really dialed in between the art package and the designers and the programmers. They had it. They had it. We got it, man. We got it figured out. I don't care who you talk to. It's his favorite game. And I will say Godzilla has got to be up there. Oh, yes. Because I've always been, you know, a Japanese in the Japanese culture. So to have that black and white Godzilla on the screen, I remember seeing as a little kid watching that Godzilla in the black and white on TV back when, so I only am when TV was black and white. So I remember seeing that show growing up as a little kid. So that game would certainly be up there. but as far as the EM world one of the games I like is a game called Texan no one's heard of Texan and Josh you're welcome to look it up on IPVD Texan was made by Golub in 1960 and I have a guy that works for me and I found a Texan and he put 80 hours into rebuilding every component And the game plays like it did back in 1960 Fast action The bumper bumpers are jet lightning But it's a layout that I'm so intrigued by It's a simple game You know a lot of the gobbledygook games from the 60s and 70s Were very simple Square head, tic-tac-toe, you know Volley, knock down the targets But Those games were really a lot of fun But you know I also collect a lot of Williams at a ball game in the 60s. Again, that's when I grew up during that time. So that's all we knew. I mean, back then, the speed of that ball was what we knew. It was fast, and you had to have quick reflexes. Not like today, where it's pretty nuts. But I'm kind of jumping around here a little bit. So I gave you the three solid state, the one EM, Gottlieb. I'm trying to think what other game I would die for. You know, I like Big Bang Bar. Gene Cunningham Reproduced 200 titles And I was able to get one But that game was made by Rob Morrison And he was the only game he built But I always thought Man that guy did a pretty darn great game Have you read that There's an article that someone wrote Back in the day it's called When Pigs Fly When Pigs Flew When Pigs Flew yes And it actually goes over the remake of Big Bang Bar and how Gene Kim it's actually quite interesting we'll look it up and send you a link it's quite a long it's not interesting so one thing I do want to know the last 15 years so these are the modern pinball so I would say the second golden age of pinball your top 5 games so from 2010 on 2010 on well Godzilla so that made it easy okay you can just go everything Elowen, Jurassic Park let me look at your name behind me let me think, as family I think I like that a lot attack from Mars, revenge from Mars I'm just trying to think of the games I have in my basement I got about 80 games in the basement Okay how big is your basement Like I have 10 games and I have no more space Like I would kill for your basement size So what happens We built about a 4 square foot home And I told my wife I want a big basement So we built a home and then I was able to fit about I don know let say 40 games And I said, there's so many more games I want to put in the basement. So we added on an addition to the house. We had to add stuff in order to build down. Yep. Okay. So that added another 20 games to it. Okay. I could really use a little bit more room. We added on to our bedroom. It used to be upstairs, and then we had a ground-level bedroom. So we added that on, and that's a third add-on to the house, which gave me room for another 30 games. So that took it to where it is today. But, you know, I have a little bit of everything in there, from, like, the ball bowlers to some of the older arcade games, video games. You know, another game I kind of like, and we'll see which one of you guys knows about this game, made by a game plan called Andromeda. Yes. Yep, yep. Well, that was on, like, one of the finals, like a pinball final. Oh, really? Okay. Yeah, a few years ago, and it was a major competition. Wasn't it the final game? Josh, do you remember this? I think so. Yeah, and that's when I heard about Andromeda. But made by Game Plan, which is really an obscure manufacturer, that was really a pretty darn good game. Mm-hmm. And so I'm just kind of remembering the games as I walk down in my basement. So Jamie Marie wants to know, what is the monthly electric bill for Pastimes Arcade? Because that place is huge. $3,000. And I will say this. Anyone out there in radio land If you guys want to help me And either Devise, install or build Solar panels I'd like to give it a shot Because you know It's only going to get higher if we keep adding more games Yep You also need a major air conditioning Bill We have that and then we have Fans in there just to get the air flow Going on in there All right, Albert Agar wants to know What makes Expo stand out from other pinball or arcade shows? Well, I will say this All shows are good in their own right They all have a special magic to them I think what makes Expo unique, of course, is the tours of the factories I mean, you can't do that anywhere else And number two, I think just the ability to see all the pinball designers and artists And it's true, the other shows will have a smattering, two or three different guys, maybe four guys But, you know, we have 20 and 30 different guys It's just people that you just don't normally are able to see So that's very special Yeah And I think what else is we mix the combination of collector exhibits. So I'm saying like Andy Sokol, for instance, he's got the planetary pinball. Or not planetary pinball. It's Andy Sokol. He's out of Florida. He makes the custom replay buttons. Do you remember who I'm talking about? I think so. I'm just trying to find here real quick the name of his company. He goes by Rocket City Pinball. Yes. I actually just got a mod for my Jaws from him. A guy like him will be there, and the major manufacturers will be there. and a guy like, I'm just trying to think, but some of the small guys, they're a part of the hobby, but you don't hear about them all the time or see about them. Ryan Tanner Walters, he's the guy that created this, it goes on EM games. It records a high score, but he created this unit that would do it. We had the guy from Canada If you guys saw those clocks he was doing It was like a little Digital clock It was a God of the bar work on it He's out of Montreal, Canada But I mean you see all different types of vendors You don't know who you're going to see next When you turn the road Whereas you know a lot of the other shows It's the same old guys So we're able to pull out some of the unique guys Plus a lot of the vendors come from Europe and overseas. So that makes it unique as well. Okay, so one question I have. I am a first-time Pinball Expo person. So I call you, you say, this is what you need to do when you come to Expo. Number one, make sure you get plenty of sleep. Yes. Wait before you show up. Number two, make sure you get your camera ready. what's going to happen is you're going to see so much stuff, at least the first time it'll blow your mind. So just be ready to walk through the show slowly and absorb everything. But you're also going to meet a lot of people and it just will happen. I don't care if you're the shyest guy, you're going to meet people, whether it's an interior where we have our meet and greet for the first time or on the pinball tour or whatever. and that's very special because the next thing you know, you've met Josh from Loser Kid or you've met Scott. And, hey, man, it's kind of cool to meet you in person. How are you doing? You know, I'm John Doe. I love your podcast. I love the one podcast you do with Larry DeMar. You know, so you guys would love to hear this. But then you have a new fan and you meet the fan. And that makes it special for everybody. And that also, for the first time, is something you can look forward to We're going to have a lot of different souvenirs this year, guys I've lost my mind on the souvenirs this year So if you were there last year, Josh, you remember we had Flippy We introduced the character Flippy That was an idea I came up with, the Flippy mascot And he was very well received And then last year we brought his sister, Flippette Well, this year you're going to meet more of the family including Ant Tilt and Poppy in parentheses Pop Bumper. So you're going to meet more family members. And there's something else going on, guys. Why does Aunt Tilty sound like she's drunk all the time? Aunt Tilt. Not Tilty, Aunt Tilt. Oh, Aunt Tilt. Okay. But we have on the website, we're going to do a comic book. Okay. Adventures of Flippy. So it's on the website So anyone That views this is welcome to Submit their entry You don't have to be a professional Photographer or artist I'm sorry But you can do anything you want Or like Jake Danzig does You know with his dog he's got the little The little bubble there The cartoon bubble You can use some sort of artwork To make that But I'm putting this all together into one big comic book, The Adventures of Flippy. That'll be the first time I've ever done any show, so we're going to be having them at the show. But there's going to be a lot more surprises, guys. Awesome. You know, you're going to just walk away from the show just shaking your head, wow. And shaking your head is like, I can't believe what I saw. Or you're going to say, I don't think I saw everything. Or like, man, I got a chance to meet these guys from Europe, Spain, Italy, Germany. And I'll tell you what, anyone who's Spanish speaking, there's going to be plenty of guys there from Spain and Argentina that speak Spanish, so you can brush up on your Spanish. Hola, como estas? Muy bien. Como esta? Me gusta pinball. Okay, so I'm looking at hotel reservations. It looks like the Renaissance is sold out, but it still looks like there are Homewood Suites available and Embassy Suites. Is that correct, Rob? It's not next door, but it's a relatively close walk. Close enough. Okay. And not only that, these hotels have shuttles that will shuttle you to and back. So if you are worried about that. You know, it breaks my heart for some of the guys that have been coming for years, and they're calling me. They're calling me in June. Hey, I can't get a room at the hotel this year. The hotel, there's always rooms in June. I said, I know. I said, this year, things just changed. They exploded. I'm sorry But you know as long as you're part of it Guys We're going to be showing the Roger Sharp film again The man who saved the game It's a great film That's going to be shown Tuesday night by the way When we come back from our Tours of the factories And we're also going to show Tommy That's an old call film Get ready because you're going to see him destroy those games Man oh it's tough to watch Oh yeah But, you know, there's just so much we do there. It's like, man, how do you think of half this stuff? How do you do this stuff? And by the way, I think we're going to have some live streaming there this year for those people that can't make it. Awesome. What about tournament players? What do you got for tournament players? Great question. So Trent Augustine runs that, and we're having the tournament in the same room we had last time. So that's a big part of the show for people that are in the tournament play. You know what I'm finding, Scott, is a lot of guys, I talked to one guy recently that he's into the tournament play, but last year for whatever reason he either got beat early on and he didn't make the semifinals or whatever, so he walked the show. And he said, I couldn't believe how much fun it was walking the show. I've never walked the show before. Man, I really enjoyed it. So this is the thing, you know, Some people just come for the tournament, and you're right. But if you're coming just for the overall experience, it's going to blow your mind. That's all I can tell you. Well, Rob, we appreciate you coming on. This has been awesome, and I love the little tidbits you've been dropping for us. If someone does want to get a hold of you, what's the best way to get a hold of you? Well, I can give you my phone number, 330-716-3139, or email brkpinball at gmail.com. Perfect. And I'm one of those old school guys. I prefer the phone over email. Bravest man on the planet just putting his phone number out there right now. Yep. That's what I thought. I want the whole world to call me. Okay, Rob, I do have one final question, though. what is the question that we should have thought of to ask you that we didn't oh no what do i say to my wife when i tell her i'm going to be gone for a week but bring back 40 more pinball machines that's what she says by the way if you're looking for homes for your extras josh and i are great pin setters and so you can go ahead all those extra ones that you're like, you know what? I can't play that many. Go ahead and send them our way. We'll take care of them. Oh, by the way, so let's mention one more thing. So John Peterson, we have four guys that have been to all 40 Expos. Four guys. Wow. Okay. We're going to make a presentation to those guys. John Peterson is one of the 40. He's from Chicago. John is a volunteer to bring his collection of EM games to Expo. Awesome. Can you guess how many he's got? 200. well don't forget he's gonna bring him to expo now so he's gonna be a little realistic but he's got 70 games okay he's gonna bring his 70 games to expo oh he's bringing all of the games see i was just wondering like how many he may have in storage but so 70 games okay the challenge that i've always had with ems is because it takes a it takes a motivated person to actually get in there and degrease them and make sure that they're running correctly and it's a lot of times when i go to an EM, it just feels like it's on life support. And that's the hardest thing about playing an EM is that it's not the same experience that you would have had 60 years ago, 70 years ago. That's a great, great point of the year. And that's the problem with EMs is most people that have either they're older guys like me who do know how to work on them but are too lazy to, or guys your age that have a Riviera and they don't know how to work on it or they don't know what to do to fine-tune them to make that game play like new again. I would love to have an EM, but I legit do not have the know-how or the time to really tear it apart and make it function like a well-oiled machine. So imagine, guys like me, the group of the EM game, that's all we knew. But a lot of stuff was trial and error But it's like Rebuilding an engine of a car What do you do? Change the The seals You know for instance New spark plugs You know whatever you do Just to bring it back to life again And it's almost the same idea with the pinball machine A lot of it is just the basic Cleaning of the grease off the gears And the alignment Of the contact points So they're in the correct spacing the way they used to be. So this is the kind of things like they did with my Texan. It plays so fast, you would never know if the game was, in this case, 60 years old. Can you imagine? You know, let's face it. Who thought these games would be lasting this long? No, because they were disposable. They were disposable. You'd buy it and you'd put it on location for a year, maybe over a year, and then when it was worn out, you would throw it away and get a new one. Just think about all the guys. There's the guys in Germany. He'll be coming to the show, but the guy that reproduces the playfields, he'll be there. But this hobby has really expanded to keep these old games, bring them back to life again. Between the new cabinets, new playfields, and there's some guys out there that are reproducing some of the older back glasses. That's been a chore for me. With these games from Spain, you know, I got some glasses that are really bad. They're all flaked off, yeah. Yeah, that's been a chore, finding someone to reproduce them. But, you see, we have an internal art department that's able to create, even if a glass is broken, they'll be able to recreate it and bring it back to life again. So that's a plus for me. Okay, Rob, I'm going to track you down at Expo, and I want to talk to you about finding a good EM machine that I could work on. I would recommend Gauntlet Games. The Gauntlet Wedgeheads, you can't go wrong. My son loves the one 2001. That's the one that's got 20 drop targets on it. Yeah, drop targets are great. EM and draw Dorado. Yeah, draw Dorado, you got it. Those are games, but what I want to do for you, Scott, is lift up the play field and show you some tips just to clean the game up. See, for us oldsters and maybe for a guy like you, Scott, But when you understand some of the cleaning and some of the pointers to bring it back to life again, half the fun of the EM games is bringing it back to life. Yeah. And actually, so my I work in a hospital now, but my major is actually mechanical engineering. So it's something that I would be super interested in. Yeah. And it's really once you kind of get the concept. And you know what else is a crazy thing on some of the EM games? Cold solder joints. You know what that is? Yeah. That's where they've kind of cracked over time. So you've got a wire that's soldered to a contact. Yeah. But over time, it loses. It'll actually pull away. Just by simply grabbing it, it'll come right off. It's almost like a snap off. Yeah. Because it's lost its adherence to the properties that it once had. Okay. I do know how to solder, so I can do that. You're right there, man. You can do it. But, you know, for a lot of us guys, like the EM games, you know, it starts off with cleaning each score reel one at a time. Even for you, Josh, you do it in your Riviera. Pull it out, clean all the grease and trash around there. You can re-grease it, but on a very light scale. And that's the start of it, and then you go underneath. and it takes time, but when you're all done, you can start strutting around town and put some bling on it. Man, why are you all blinged up, man? Because I'm bad, man. I can clean those end games. Thank you again, Rob, for coming on. We really appreciate it. If you want to get a hold of us, we are Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at gmail.com. If you want to get a hold of us on the socials, at Loser Kid Pinball, that's Facebook, X, Instagram, Twitch, Twitter, YouTube, all that stuff. I want to do a quick shout out to our content creator of the episode. If you have not checked out AB Pinball on YouTube, he does wonderful videos kind of showcasing older games, giving a little history on them, how to play them, and just the storyline behind them. It's a wonderful YouTube channel. So go check out Alpha Bravo, but he just goes by AB Pinball. Scott, you got a word for us to send us off? My only thought is go and get your pinball tickets for Expo.

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 6eddca88-d758-470a-bfda-6dc7c50ddf25*