# DPP #58 "Rumors on the road to Expo! Stern selling direct?!"

**Source:** Don's Pinball Podcast (regular feed)  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2023-07-30  
**Duration:** 24m 12s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/donspinballpodcast/episodes/DPP-58-Rumors-on-the-road-to-Expo--Stern-selling-direct-e27hbm3

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## Analysis

Don discusses early reactions to Venom after watching livestreams from Southern Fried Gaming Expo, comparing its code-driven gameplay to mechanical depth of classic games. He covers rumors of John Wick as Stern's next game (replacing Indiana Jones), Masters of the Universe for American Pinball, and a significant rumor from RetroDango about Stern potentially selling direct-to-consumer, bypassing distributors—a major disruption to the traditional distributor model.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Venom's gameplay and code integration make it more appealing than its relatively sparse mechanical layout would suggest — _Don, based on watching multiple livestreams from Southern Fried Gaming Expo and comparing to Twilight Zone_
- [HIGH] Pro version of Venom is insufficient for the full game experience; Premium is necessary to access the character-selection gameplay mechanics — _Don, reporting feedback from people who typically buy Pros_
- [HIGH] John Wick has been confirmed as Stern's next game from John Borg's design team — _Don, citing multiple credible sources; rumor started as Matrix but solidified to John Wick_
- [MEDIUM] American Pinball is rumored to have secured the Masters of the Universe license — _Don, citing rumors that 'strongly favor' American Pinball over Nap Arcade and K-Man_
- [MEDIUM] Stern is creating a new sales and marketing department to sell games direct-to-consumer, potentially bypassing distributors — _RetroDango (YouTube), as reported by Don; tied to opening of Stern's new mega facility in August_
- [HIGH] P3 Multimorphic units are available for purchase at Southern Fried Gaming Expo to avoid the one-year queue — _Don, reporting from expo information_
- [MEDIUM] Venom is not selling as quickly as other recent Stern releases — _Don, based on feedback and market observations_
- [MEDIUM] Distributor model traditionally gives Stern ~80% of retail price to distributors, who pocket ~15% margin per machine — _Don, estimating based on typical industry practices (e.g., $8,500 wholesale on $10,000 MSRP)_

### Notable Quotes

> "What exactly is different with this Venom layout, this fan layout, where all the fun things are in the back third of the playfield, and a module from P3 Multimorphic, right?"
> — **Don**, ~4:30
> _Core critique of Venom's sparse mechanical layout and comparison to modular P3 platform_

> "What we're getting that Twilight Zone didn't have was this gameplay. Now, does gameplay and code mean as much as mechanisms and everything? That's going to come down to a personal preference."
> — **Don**, ~8:45
> _Key philosophical tension in modern pinball: code/gameplay vs. mechanical depth_

> "I really see the P3 Multimorphic as kind of like a Neo Geo, a little niche of a niche kind of product, whereas the Sterns, the Jersey Jacks, the traditional cabinet games that we have are mass market appeal. They're the PlayStations. They're the Xboxes."
> — **Don**, ~19:30
> _Market segmentation analysis; P3 as niche platform vs. mainstream manufacturers_

> "So I don't know yet, but that may be a little bit early, but I think there's a fair to middling chance that we may see something from JJP potentially too."
> — **Don**, ~38:00
> _Speculation about Jersey Jack Pinball releasing new game post-Godfather_

> "If Stern is selling direct, like they sold games last year on Amazon direct to consumers, they would make some more money, but they're also going to have to come up with a more robust force to deal with these issues from games that come up."
> — **Don**, ~52:00
> _Analysis of tradeoffs in direct-to-consumer sales model for Stern_

> "I see that as more of a one-way, you know, us to end consumer, and then, you know, that's it. Maybe some service calls, you know, if they're covered by warranty, but that's probably going to be the extent of, you know, of the deal there."
> — **Don**, ~55:30
> _Prediction that Stern won't handle used/trade-in market in direct-to-consumer model_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Don | person | Host of Don's Pinball Podcast; media producer, content creator, pinball enthusiast and collector |
| Marco Specialties | company | Pinball distributor that brought Venom machines to Southern Fried Gaming Expo |
| Brian Eddy | person | Programmer and Stern associate; appeared in livestreams at Southern Fried Gaming Expo |
| Jack Danger | person | Pinball designer/media figure; streamed Venom at San Diego Comic Convention |
| John Borg | person | Stern pinball designer; leading design team for John Wick game |
| Multimorphic | company | P3 modular pinball platform manufacturer based in rural Texas; selling units at Southern Fried Gaming Expo |
| Scott Denise | person | Game designer; created Final Resistance for P3 Multimorphic |
| American Pinball | company | Pinball manufacturer; rumored to have Masters of the Universe license; previously released Galactic Tank Force, Legends of Valhalla, Houdini |
| Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Premium pinball manufacturer; recently released Godfather; speculation about next title |
| Stern Pinball | company | Major pinball manufacturer; opening new mega facility in August; rumored to be creating direct-to-consumer sales department |
| RetroDango | person | YouTube content creator from Denmark; broke rumor about Stern direct-to-consumer sales initiative |
| Jason | person | Host of Pinball Party podcast; discussed roguelike video game mechanics in recent episode |
| Pinball Brothers | company | Pinball manufacturer; rumored by Dutch Pinball to have new game announcement at Expo 2024 |
| Dutch Pinball | company | Pinball manufacturer; announced Pinball Brothers' upcoming game at Expo 2024 (not 2023) |
| Barry Do | person | Dutch Pinball representative or founder; made unusual advance announcement about 2024 Expo game |
| Jeff | person | Operator at Mad Pinball distributor; assisted Don with warranty opto replacement |
| Jengiz | person | YouTube content creator (RetroDango channel); sourced Stern direct-to-consumer rumor |
| Southern Fried Gaming Expo | event | Gaming expo in Georgia happening during episode recording; featured Venom demonstrations |
| Pinball Expo | event | Chicago-based pinball expo in late October; major announcement venue for industry; Don plans four-day attendance |
| Texas Pinball Festival | event | Spring pinball expo in March; bookend event with Pinball Expo in fall |
| Venom | game | Stern Pinball Marvel-themed game released ~1 week before episode; features character selection, roguelike mechanics, sparse layout; Pro/Premium/LE tiers |
| John Wick | game | Stern pinball game in development by John Borg; action/shooter movie IP; rumored to replace Indiana Jones in release pipeline |
| Masters of the Universe | game | Pinball game rumored for American Pinball; licensing competition with Nap Arcade and K-Man resolved in American Pinball's favor |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Venom reception and gameplay analysis, John Wick pinball game rumor/confirmation, Stern direct-to-consumer sales model disruption, Masters of the Universe American Pinball license
- **Secondary:** Code and gameplay vs. mechanical depth in modern pinball, P3 Multimorphic platform positioning and market niche, Distributor model economics and margin structures, Road to Expo announcements and speculation

### Sentiment

**Mixed** (0.55) — Don is moderately enthusiastic about industry momentum and upcoming announcements (John Wick, Masters of Universe, Expo reveals) but cautious/critical about Venom's value proposition, American Pinball's recent output, and uncertain about Stern's direct-sales disruption. Generally positive tone and collaborative spirit with audience, but underlying skepticism about current market direction.

### Signals

- **[gameplay_signal]** Venom's sparse mechanical layout is compensated by code-driven gameplay (character selection, roguelike mechanics, integrated light shows) that creates meaningful gameplay differentiation and replayability despite minimal physical mechs (confidence: high) — Don's extended analysis of livestreams showing how code integration and character selection mechanics elevate gameplay beyond what layout alone would suggest; comparison to Twilight Zone's mechanical depth
- **[product_concern]** Venom Pro tier lacks character-selection gameplay feature, forcing players who want full experience to upgrade to Premium ($3,000 jump); causing some Pro-tier buyers to skip purchase entirely (confidence: high) — Don reporting feedback from people 'that typically go in on a pro' skipping Venom; analysis that Pro lacks full code implementation
- **[market_signal]** Venom experiencing slower sales compared to recent Stern releases (Godzilla, Foo Fighters, James Bond) (confidence: medium) — Don: 'this feedback that, you know, the game isn't selling as quickly as, you know, some of the other ones would have'
- **[rumor_hype]** John Wick confirmed as Stern's next game from John Borg's design team, reportedly replacing Indiana Jones in release queue; multiple credible sources converged on this after initial Matrix speculation (confidence: high) — Don citing 'multitude of sources' and stating 'It's probably taking that position, that fourth position that was going to be Indiana Jones from Stern'
- **[machine_intel]** Masters of the Universe confirmed as pinball license; American Pinball rumored to have secured rights over competitors Nap Arcade and K-Man (confidence: medium) — Don: 'the rumor strongly favors American Pinball' and 'I couldn't be happier for American Pinball'; 'there was some battle there between...Nap Arcade and the K-Man'
- **[business_signal]** Stern Pinball rumored to be launching direct-to-consumer sales and service department at new mega facility opening August 2023, potentially bypassing traditional distributor model (confidence: medium) — RetroDango YouTube video reporting Stern creating 'new sales and marketing department...to potentially sell games direct to consumer from Stern, bypassing distributors'; tied to August facility opening
- **[event_signal]** P3 Multimorphic units available for immediate purchase at Southern Fried Gaming Expo, offering alternative to standard one-year ordering queue (confidence: high) — Don: 'our friends over there at Multimorphic...have brought some machines that they're going to have available...to take with you at the end of the show'
- **[product_strategy]** P3 Multimorphic positioned as niche 'Neo Geo' platform vs. mainstream manufacturers (Stern, JJP) as 'PlayStation/Xbox'; limited game availability exclusive to P3 platform restricts addressable market (confidence: high) — Don's extended metaphor comparing P3 to Neo Geo and mass-market systems to PlayStation/Xbox; criticism that exclusive availability limits audience for innovative games like Final Resistance
- **[rumor_hype]** American Pinball rumored to secure Masters of the Universe license; expected to be announced at Pinball Expo 2023 in October (confidence: medium) — Don citing rumors and stating 'There will be some reveals apparently taking place here [Expo], one of which may be from American Pinball'
- **[sentiment_shift]** American Pinball needs a hit following Galactic Tank Force; Masters of Universe could be turning point for company's viability (confidence: medium) — Don: 'I think this is a company that needs a hit especially following up on on Galactic Tank Force...very weird game and with a very strange launch'
- **[competitive_signal]** Multiple manufacturers expected to announce new games at Pinball Expo 2023 (Stern: John Wick, American Pinball: Masters of the Universe, JJP: potentially, Pinball Brothers: confirmed for 2024) (confidence: medium) — Don's 'Road to Expo' analysis covering expected announcements from multiple manufacturers leading to October Expo
- **[design_philosophy]** Tension in modern pinball design between code-driven gameplay (roguelike video game mechanics) and mechanical complexity/depth of classic era (Twilight Zone); different design philosophies appeal to different player segments (confidence: high) — Don's analysis contrasting Venom's code-driven depth to Twilight Zone's mechanical features; reference to Jason (Pinball Party) discussing roguelike mechanics integration

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## Transcript

 What's going on everybody? Summer camp continues here at Don's Pinball Podcast. For those of you checking, episode number 58 coming to you during the weekend. This lovely weekend of summer, end of July. So grab your s'mores and your hot dog sticks and get around the campfire. Let's cuddle up and tell some ghost stories about the future of this pinball hobby that we all believe in and participate in. reaching out there with kindness and some sticky marshmallow on my finger, it's a pinball podcast for you. I am in rare form this weekend. What's up, everybody? I wanted to come back. It's my last day here on the road in the hills of Appalachia from rural West Virginia, from where the coal mine smoke hangs densely in the air, choking our souls with that nice powdery black goodness. and we're going to reflect on where we are exactly in the pinball hobby for today. So let's get into it. So the Southern Fried Gaming Expo is going on right now down there in Georgia, and wouldn't you know it, Marco's specialty has brought some Venoms on location to play. I did a 90-minute livestream yesterday. It was fantastic. We covered a lot of topics. I'm going to kind of redress a lot of that too because we've got some more views that have solidified up in the interim, but I've been watching the livestreams. It kicked off with Brian Eddy and his programmer buddies and everybody from Marco were there streaming Venom again. And so I got to watch some more live streams of this game, and I came to a realization. You know, we're heading in here now. It's been about a week since the game is revealed. So, like, our initial enthusiasm and exuberance has settled. So now we can objectively kind of look at this game. And I was reflecting on it prior to watching these live streams, thinking, you know what? What exactly is different with this Venom layout, this fan layout, where all the fun things are in the back third of the playfield, and a module from P3 Multimorphic, right? I mean, couldn't you have the same Venom-type layout as a replaceable module for a P3? I mean, the whole playfield's empty except for the ramps on the side, which the P3 Multimorphic system is perfectly capable of handling. So, you know, is this, you know, worthwhile getting, I guess, is what I'm getting at. Now, I do media production, apparently. This is podcasting business. And I do love live streams. And I love it. I love the people that come in there for the weekly Friday night evening live streams that I've been doing. I'm hoping to get into streaming here soon. And so because of that, I am more apt to buy a game that I otherwise maybe would kind of wait on. And that's what I was considering with Venom here over the last few days. so you know given that the this the theme is is interesting I mean I you know I like Venom it's comic books and whatever but it means about as much to me as Avengers does and I don't own one of those and I know we're all hearing all these rumors of what's coming next from Stern right but if I can get a game the brand new game from Stern open it up do an unboxing play with the thing give my reviews and views and then in six months pass it on it hopefully not too much of a loss, that makes it worthwhile for me. But if I was, say, where I was a year ago, where I had one pin, would I go on this and make this the second pin in my house? Knowing the landscape as it is now, knowing everything from Fathom to Centaur to Elton John and the Masters of the Universe on the way, and Elwynn's ready to make another drop, and there's already rumors of John Borg's next game, does Venom make sense? And at the time, a few days ago, that's where I was. you know, yeah, I kind of have some secondary gain here that the average pinball person probably wouldn't have. And that would make me more apt to go ahead and get this game. But otherwise, I think I probably would hold off on it until I really watch these streams. So the thing we're not getting from these review trailers is a lot of the nuance of the gameplay. And I watched Jack Danger's stream at the San Diego Comic Convention, which was, you know, our first view of that. But we were still in that irrational exuberance period when a game first drops, right? So now I was sitting and I was watching, man, like a couple of hours of live streams from the Southern Pride Gaming Expo that Marco's been putting on. And I'm starting to appreciate more of like how much the gameplay and code really helps supplant what is otherwise a fairly pedestrian type of layout, you know, back third of the cabinet, say. And so where they're going with this, and I've listened to the other podcasters, Jason from Pinball Party really went in pretty deep with his recent show talking about the roguelike video game aspect that's being brought into pinball. And I'm all for bringing those gameplay elements that work good in that sphere in that video game space, and where appropriate bringing them into pinball. And I think Venom is where we're seeing the intersection of these two things. So yeah, it's a game that doesn't look like Twilight Zone, right? I mean, come on, Twilight Zone's got like five times the amount of mechanisms and ball paths and cool little things and gumball machines and stuff that this obviously doesn't have. And it's been kind of a disturbing trend that we've seen go with pinball. We want to get back to those days where we have a lot of mechanisms and everything. But what we're getting that Twilight Zone didn't have was this gameplay. Now, does gameplay and code mean as much as mechanisms and everything? That's going to come down to a personal preference. I still think the games are overpriced for what we're getting. but I was spurried on when I saw like how, you know, the gameplay was integrated there, how the light shows integrated, how much of a difference it made, you know, picking a character and changing the layout, you know, so there is a lot to be said for, you know, the more softer part of this release, the code, the lights over so much of the layout that makes it a little bit more palatable Now that being said if I wasn ready to tear this box open and podcast the hell out of this thing Would I still go on one That I don know I think it could come down to really a coin flip You know something like Foo Fighters it was released I was all in aboard that hype train I rode it straight into town You know Venom I'm not sure. And maybe that speaks to why we're getting this feedback that, you know, the game isn't selling as quickly as, you know, some of the other ones would have. That also being said, let's look at the breakdown between the pro and the premium here once again. So a very good argument can be made that you get basically all the gameplay that you would need out of a pro for the last several releases for Godzilla, for Foo Fighters, for James Bond, you know, is not really worth that $3,000 jump to the premium unless you really want to have those extra little bits. But for something like this, where the whole gimmick that integrated gameplay really centers around picking a character and changing the gameplay field, you're just not getting that on the pro. And I'm hearing that from people that typically, you know, would go in on a pro just to, you know, get a game in the house. They're actually just skipping this. And I could totally see that. So if you, you know, are typically in the market for, you know, the pro and you don't own a location or something, I can see totally skipping this game because it seems like to really get the full effect of the code and the gameplay that have been put into this game, you really have to go for that premium. All right, let me know your take on all of this. but we're going to know more about Venom the more people play it. So I'm excited as the weekend goes on to hear back from people that are playing Venom and get more of a response from them. So with these Venom machines that are on site at the Southern Fry Gaming Expo that Marco Specialties brought there, are these going to be show games for sale? I asked that online, and I was greeted with no. So these games are not being sold at the show. I thought that would have been kind of cool at least, you know, if you could get on one of these early ones and then take it home with you, these probably have to go back to the shop. Maybe they're not, you know, in their final form or ready for, you know, full public consumption. But what is for sale there is the P3 Multimorphic, I guess, for the first time. So it seems like our friends over there at Multimorphic, those folks from the center of rural Texas, have brought some machines that they're going to have available at the Southern Fry Gaming Expo to take with you at the end of the show. So if you want to get one of these and avoid the one-year-long queue, this would be a good way to get into it. Now, I mentioned on the live stream, so I don't want to hit it too much, but I really see the P3 Multimorphic as kind of like a Neo Geo, a little niche of a niche kind of product, whereas the Sterns, the Jersey Jacks, the traditional cabinet games that we have are mass market appeal. They're the PlayStations. They're the Xboxes. People are going to get them. The games that are coming out for the P3 Multimorphic are only available on that machine. So you have to make the leap of getting the machine and then make the leap of getting the modules. And it does a disservice, I think, to games that look innovative and fun, like Scott Danesi's Final Resistance, because they're only going to be available for that select market. But if you really want to go in on one, they're available now at the convention. So that's a great, I think, place to get one if you can wheel and deal a little bit and maybe get the cabinet platform. platform, you know, maybe 500 bucks off or something and take it with you. If you wanted to get one, I think that's a good way to get one. So that's the first time that this has happened. So you can't take Venom home with you, but you can take home a P3 Multimorphic and maybe someone will develop, I don't know, a Venom module for P3 Multimorphic. What kind of like Stern cross branding would that be? If they did a licensing deal to make one of their games available as a module for the P3, I would see Stern probably just licensing the P3 technology and doing it that way. if they even want to worry about it, which I don't believe that they will. So what else is going on this week? Well, we're hearing confirmation of a new game from Stern, from Mr. John Borg's design team for John Wick, right? That Keanu Reeves thriller franchise where he's, you know, basically doing everything in the Matrix without the bullet time and, you know, zeroing one tapping people on the forehead. So I haven't seen any of these films, but people have that were on the live stream last night. And I was kind of asking him, like, what sort of things would you want to see in this game? Because from what I've seen from trailers and the bits of the movies that I've watched on airplanes, I'm imagining basically a layout that would look like, you know, kind of like a, what do you call it, cyberpunk city, very dark, wet streets and all that. Basically what I would expect from the Matrix, but without all the Matrix-y, you know, Terminators and everything floating around. you know but apparently there's a lot of points story points along there that could be integrated into a pinball machine are they going to make it just based off the first movie are they going to pull things from the entire four movie franchise up to date what assets are we going to get all that we don't know but I had been hearing this rumor you know from several sources for a while now but nothing really concrete but now I think that the multitude of sources have reported it's John Wick I think this was the rumor that started out with Matrix and then I was hearing guess what everybody's talking about Matrix. It's really John Wick. Now I think we're getting that from so many sources that this thing is coming next. It's probably taking that position, that fourth position that was going to be Indiana Jones from Stern. So we'll probably see this at some point down the road. I'm sure we'll hear more about it now, but we've got the leak and it seems to be substantiated. Now, is this a game that will speak to people more than Venom? I would imagine so, particularly if you've seen the films. When Godfather was announced and it was a real thing. I went out and actually watched the Godfather film. So I guess I got to go and watch John Wick now so I can get a sense on, you know, what's going to happen with this game. But this is a reveal that I'd like to see kind of what they do with it. You know, how do we approach a game like this, which I see in the vein of, you know, action shooter type movie, like a diehard So are we going to see kind of a game that it in the vein of what a diehard type you know take over the city fight the terrorists shoot all the bad guys movie pinball would be like Will it be the second coming of Last Action Hero Who the heck knows? But following that, once we're done with the Southern Fry Gaming Expo, we are going to be into August, which means September and October are just around the corner. This will start what I'm going to refer to as the road to Expo. You know, Expo is going to be the next big drop of the year. Texas Pinball Festival is in the springtime in March, bookended in the fall with Chicago's Pinball Expo. So what are we going to see at Expo? Well, we've already heard that there will be some reveals apparently taking place here, one of which may be from American Pinball. And wouldn't you know that there is that rumor that American Pinball has the license for Masters of the Universe? I know there was some battle there between, you know, Nap Arcade and the K-Man, but it seems like we're coming down now that the rumor strongly favors American Pinball and I couldn't be happier for American Pinball I think this is a company that needs a hit especially following up on on Galactic Tank Force it's been done to death if you like it have at it I still play it when it's on location but it's a very weird game and with a very strange launch with very strange marketing with very strange considerations giving to that whole entire projects. So this would be American Pinball's second, you know, licensed product that's not in the public domain, right? You know, they did Houdini, you know, their other game was Legends of Valhalla. And that's kind of the game I'm looking for inspiration on what to expect if American Pinball does come through and does a Masters of the Universe pinball machine. So I, you know, now that I've played all of the American Pinball games, and looking at them all kind of in the uh in the abstract now i think legends of valhalla may actually be my favorite one of theirs um you know oktoberfest seems to have more in it but the theme is is cringe especially with that art um but legends of valhalla for those of you that played it it actually shoots pretty well it integrates magnets in an interesting way it's got just a bare bones public domain theme so there's not that draw and tie into it but imagine if we had a game that shot as well as Legends of Valhalla does. Maybe had a few more mechs and maybe a little upper play field or something in it, but used magnets in a creative way, had that cool kind of art with skulls and everything, and then was loaded with Masters of the Universe. So that's what I'm hoping if this is a true project and it comes to fruition, that we get something that's as good or better as a shooter and integrated mechanisms of a game as Legends of Valhalla, but done with the theme that we can really grab onto. You know, if I was to give, you know, a letter grade to Legends of Valhalla, you know, it's about 60, 65% there. You know, not a game that I'm looking to go out and purchase, but a game that I don't mind playing when I do come across it. You know, it's okay. It's fun, but it's not the greatest thing. But, you know, if they made a game with a layout of around 65% with a theme of like, you know, bringing up an extra 20 to 25%, well, then we're looking at a pretty sweet game. And if this can be something that they can deliver, that they can make in large numbers, that they can get out into the market, get in front of people without having any issues like, you know, a battle tank that's down there throwing balls up over the flippers. And they, you know, use the 3D modeling machines for, you know, kind of workshopping and prototyping, but then go for actual either, you know, resin dipped or plastic molded or casted 3D pieces for the actual machine to bring that fit and finish up. I think they could really have the game that American pinball needs. So I'm not seeing people banging down the doors trying to get Galactic Tank Forces. I'm not sure where they are with their production because, I mean, we haven't seen anybody from the company. They certainly don't do a Friday live episode to show us what's on the line there. So I can imagine that by the time we get to October and then going into December, they would need to put something on the line if they're going to stay a solvent company. Maybe they have other revenue streams that we don't know about. They're part of a conglomerate, what have you but i think there's a strong possibility that we could see something new from american pinball um you know more than anybody else uh i think pinball brothers is also rumored to be having another game uh dutch pinball said that i don't know why they did this they announced that something was coming at expo but it was going to be expo 2024 not 2023 i don't know why they announced that far ahead of time but barry do's what barry do's man what am i going to say. So as we build down the road to Expo, I think going into August, once Venoms start kind of coming off the line, I'm hoping to get some more rumors of what's actually going to build up and be at Expo. It's probably not going to be the dump of games that we had in March for Texas Pinball Festival, but there may be some surprises there. So I'm looking forward to it. I'm going to be there for all four days. I'm going to be on site. We're going to be doing some giveaways, doing events. I've already got three things scheduled, which I can't wait to talk more about. It's going to be exciting. It's going to be fun. Anybody that can make it there on site or watch remotely, we're really looking forward to Pinball Expo in Chicago towards the end of October. Moving on, what else do I have here? Oh, so JJP, are we going to see a new game from them? I see them kind of in the similar position with American Pinball when it comes to the game that they currently have on the line, their most recent release, Godfather, and have they now fulfilled their allotment of orders that they've had. Are they going to be looking, as we get into November and as we get into December, on another game to put on their line as they're going to be finishing up the allotted orders for Godfather? So I don't know yet, but that may be a little bit early, but I think there's a fair to middling chance that we may see something from JJP potentially too. All of that we'll follow on the Road to Expo. I can't wait to see if we're correct on all these things. What else do we have here going on on a Saturday afternoon? So my buddy and yours Jengiz he got a YouTube channel Retro Tango He put up a fairly interesting video with a really solid shocking rumor just this afternoon I went and watched it there and then reached out and talked to him about it So his rumor that he's hearing has to do with some marketing and sales changes with Stern Pinball, Big Daddy Stern, that's coming with the opening of their new mega facility in August. It's going to be happening here at the end of next month. So he's saying that His rumor is that there's a new sales and marketing department that's going to be created within Stern Pinball to potentially sell games direct to consumer from Stern, bypassing distributors. So this would disrupt essentially the whole model that Stern operates on. Right now, Stern basically sells directly to their customers, which is distributors. Distributors put in their orders for how many games they think they're going to sell. They give one big check, and then apparently the games show up. And then in the meantime, it's the distributors that are doing the marketing, that are on the Facebook, that are reaching out, that are going to the shows, taking these games around and selling them, and then taking the margins off what they get. I imagine for a $10,000 game, probably the factory invoice on that to the dealer, what, 80% of the cost or something, $8,500 for a $10,000 game, let's say, for ease of math. And then when they sell that game onto a consumer at MSRP, they can pocket $1,500 per machine sold. LEs probably have a bigger margin. Pros probably have less of a margin, but do higher numbers to operators. That's how it's traditionally worked. So the benefit that Stern gets from this, because obviously if Stern was selling direct, they could charge full MSRP and they could recoup that difference. But what they're gaining is the service part of it, right? So a lot of the marketing and acquisition to customers is left through the distributors. A lot of the risk is pushed off onto the distributors as well. If the distributors order too much or don't have the customers for it, they're kind of left hanging. They've already paid their money to Stern, which is from what I understand how this industry works. Any distros out there, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I want in on your nuances of your business. But when a customer has a problem, such as I had, I unboxed a Foo Fighters Premium, and one of the optos, although it was lit with the LED working, was not functioning on the Overlord shot. I went through the whole switch test, you know, and people online helped me out to diagnose the problem. And then I reached out to Stern directly and I said, hey, I think I've got a bad opto. Can I switch it out? And I got, you know what, why don't you take that to your distributor and have them deal with it. So I contacted Jeff at Mad Pinball, told him what was going on, explained the problem. He said, no problem. He submitted it directly to Stern. and three days later in my mailbox, I had an opto, soldered it in, the game's been working perfectly since then. So these issues will happen with new in box pinball. Just forewarning, anybody that buys new in box, you just expect that something's not going to be quite right. There's going to be something you're going to have to work out there. That's one of the benefits of buying used from someone else. A lot of these early issues have already been sorted, but that notwithstanding, you know, Stern, though they're taking less money by doing the distributor model, they're also kind of one step removed from these sort of middling end user issues that they get with a distributor. So, yeah, obviously, if Stern is selling direct, like they sold games last year on Amazon direct to consumers, they would make some more money, but they're also going to have to come up with a more robust force to deal with these issues from games that come up. And I think what they may be doing then, and this was truly to the heart of the rumor that Cengiz had, was that they are going to beef up their sales and kind of service team, you know, so some new hires create a new department or new division or whatever to handle the phone calls from end users directly to Stern. It seems like a lot more work for them. Is it going to be worth it? I know who's not going to be enthusiastic about this, and that's the distributors that have, you know, good relationships with their customers, and this is going to eat into their profits. They're already taking risk, you know, when they do these deals and everything. So I don't know. I don't know. We'll have to see what comes out here. The other thing, though, that you get with a distributor that you would not necessarily have with Stern is a used market. You know, if you're a home user, you know, you're going to have your game. You're going to play it 300 times or so. And then six months later, when another game comes out, you can then trade that game in to your distributor towards the purchase of another one. And then the distros buy and sell used games all the time as well. Is Stern really going to want to do that? I don't think so. I see that as more of a one-way, you know, us to end consumer, and then, you know, that's it. Maybe some service calls, you know, if they're covered by warranty, but that's probably going to be the extent of, you know, of the deal there. I don't see Stern taking a Guns N' Roses or a Willy Wonka in trade towards the purchase of a John Wick, let's say. So I guess we'll find out all of this. This will be nebulous, but I think it should be shored up, again, by the time we get to Expo. So we'll check back in there. These are the rumors as I hear them and understand them right now. Thanks to RetroDango on YouTube. Give that guy a follow. What a handsome dude that is out there in Denmark. Solid guy. Everybody else, bring me your rumors. I love it. Email me at donspinballpodcast at gmail.com and let me know what you want to hear, man. I'm here to service y'all. Follow on the Facebook page. I'm collecting followers, trying to build to 1,000. I've got a Patreon for $5 a month, and I get you access to stickers anytime you want them, as well as some other drops I do periodically in there. I'm in West Virginia I'm heading home tomorrow I can't wait to get back to the center of the great street of Wisconsin and to all my games I got downstairs man it's what's up email Don at Don's Pinball Podcast don't email no I'm just kidding I ain't gonna shade anybody else it's all love here it's all kindness and fun thanks for joining us everybody enjoy this episode eat your vegetables wiki wiki wiki wiki Hit it.

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 70744768-4b4b-4d20-a495-b5dbcb9a262b*