# Episode 56 – Cease and Desist **Source:** Slam Tilt Podcast **Type:** podcast_episode **Published:** 2017-08-17 **Beat:** Pinball **URL:** https://www.slamtiltpodcast.com/2017/08/17/episode-56-cease-and-desist/ --- ## Analysis Slam Tilt Podcast Episode 56 centers on the Buffalo Pinball Summer Open tournament happening next weekend, with hosts Ron Hallett and Bruce Nightingale interviewing organizers Nick Lane and Kevin Manning. The episode covers tournament logistics, streaming setup via PAPA, venue details at Pocketeer Billiards (57+ machines), food trucks, and game selection strategy. Secondary segments discuss Star Wars code instability issues, Kiss 1.30 code updates, Alien's improvements in newer versions, and a humorous closing bit about the hosts playfully claiming they received a cease-and-desist from the Head to Head Pinball Podcast for copying their two-person podcast format. ### Key Claims - [HIGH] Pocketeer Billiards has approximately 57 pinball machines and keeps adding the most recent releases — _Nick Lane and Kevin Manning discussing Pocketeer's game selection for the tournament location_ - [HIGH] Star Wars at Pocketeer is running beta code version 0.87 and experiences multi-stage crash events — _Nick Lane and Kevin Manning discussing operational concerns with Star Wars machine; Bruce and Ron referencing crash videos_ - [HIGH] Kiss received code version 1.30 with mostly bug fixes and no significant rule changes, disappointing players — _Kevin Manning and Ron Hallett discussing Kiss code update reception_ - [HIGH] Alien has newer code versions (0.98 and 0.99) not yet deployed on the Pocketeer machine, with improvements to mode start requirements and Whaling Utani shot nagging — _Kevin Manning describing conversation with David Thiel (sound designer) about unreleased Alien code improvements_ - [HIGH] Nick Lane's new pinball route operation exceeded expectations, growing from planned 4 machines to 10+ machines across multiple locations — _Nick Lane discussing his operator business launched in April 2024_ - [HIGH] Buffalo Pinball Summer Open will stream Friday and Saturday qualifying 8 p.m. to midnight, with PAPA providing full camera coverage of all 10 games — _Kevin Manning explaining streaming logistics and PAPA's technical setup_ - [HIGH] The tournament format uses 5-best-scores-on-5-different-machines structure mimicking PAPA qualifying format — _Nick Lane and Kevin Manning describing tournament rules_ - [HIGH] Steve Daniels is running a pre-tournament three-strikes event on Thursday the 17th with about 10-15 remaining spots — _Kevin Manning announcing pre-event tournament details_ - [HIGH] Metallica machines purchased at Allentown for $4,400 are performing well on Nick's route operations — _Nick Lane discussing operator business game acquisitions_ - [HIGH] Alien has a working Xenomorph head mech that captures the ball and starts multiball, marking one of the first shipped games with functioning head mechanics — _Kevin Manning praising Alien's toy implementation and comparing to Texas pinball event experience_ ### Notable Quotes > "If you play it in a Papa style, if you play it in an Herb style, if you play it in a Pump and Dump style, you'll totally understand how this format works." > — **Kevin Manning**, ~8:30 > _Explaining tournament format using community-recognized reference points for qualifying structure_ > "Carl makes us look like professionals. So big shout-out to him and all he does for the hobby." > — **Nick Lane**, ~12:15 > _Acknowledging critical tournament software infrastructure support from community volunteer_ > "People really want the cities to do something, and the cities still don't do anything... They say the name of the city. Oh, well, there you go." > — **Ron Hallett**, ~35:20 > _Community discussion about Kiss code limitations regarding city callouts in updates_ > "Just think of Johnny Mnemonic, like the shutdown as things stop working, and that's how it crashed." > — **Ron Hallett**, ~38:45 > _Describing Star Wars multi-stage crash behavior with cultural reference_ > "You play this and then you play Star Wars and it's like night and day as far as theme integration. It's just screams alien." > — **Kevin Manning**, ~62:30 > _Contrasting Alien's superior theme implementation versus Star Wars, highlighting design quality differences_ > "Our games, if you go and play them, they're like playing games in a home collection, and that's kind of the standards that we set for ourselves." > — **Nick Lane**, ~43:20 > _Explaining operator philosophy and maintenance standards for route games_ > "You know, we timed it right because we bought a bunch of games down at Allentown. You know, getting, like, Metallica for $4,400, you know, you can't beat that." > — **Nick Lane**, ~45:50 > _Secondary market acquisition strategy enabling operator business model viability_ > "I've heard you before... Probably both. Probably just me walking around. They heard him playing Bram Stoker's Dracula when the multipliers go up." > — **Bruce Nightingale (quote about his voice recognition)**, ~68:15 > _Community recognition of Bruce's distinctive voice work and podcast presence_ ### Entities | Name | Type | Context | |------|------|---------| | Ron Hallett | person | Co-host of Slam Tilt Podcast, handles podcast editing and communication | | Bruce Nightingale | person | Co-host of Slam Tilt Podcast, tournament organizer, provides voice work and character impressions | | Nick Lane | person | Co-founder/organizer of Buffalo Pinball Summer Open, new pinball route operator with 10+ machines on location | | Kevin Manning | person | Co-founder/organizer of Buffalo Pinball Summer Open, handles streaming logistics and technical setup, created Alien tutorial stream | | Pocketeer Billiards | organization | Buffalo, NY pinball arcade venue hosting Buffalo Pinball Summer Open tournament with 57+ machines; upgraded to Spectrum internet | | Buffalo Pinball Summer Open | event | Major pinball tournament in Buffalo featuring 80+ registered players, qualifying Friday-Saturday with finals on Sunday, featuring PAPA streaming coverage | | Steve Daniels | person | Running pre-tournament three-strikes event on Thursday before main tournament | | Josh Sharp | person | Tournament organizer consulted on game selection decisions; brother of Zach Sharp | | Zach Sharp | person | Competitive pinball player attending Buffalo Pinball Summer Open; previous year winner Trent Augustine returning | | Carl D'Angelo | person | Creator of Never Drains tournament software used by Buffalo Pinball | | David Thiel | person | Sound designer for Alien; communicated code improvements to Kevin Manning | | Stern Pinball | company | Manufacturer; multiple recent Stern games discussed on route (Metallica, Ghostbusters, Star Wars, Kiss, Alien) | | PAPA | organization | Professional pinball tournament organization providing streaming equipment and three-commentator setup for Buffalo event | | Alien | game | Cointaker/new funder game featuring functional Xenomorph head mech; at Pocketeer with code versions 0.98/0.99 pending; Kevin praised theme integration | | Star Wars | game | Stern game running beta code 0.87 with crash issues; excluded from tournament due to stability concerns; Kevin criticized theme integration versus Alien | | Kiss | game | Stern game receiving code version 1.30 with bug fixes but no rule depth improvements; community disappointed by lack of major updates | | Metallica | game | Williams/Stern game purchased by Nick for $4,400 at Allentown; performing well on route with good theme appeal | | Ghostbusters | game | Stern game killing it on location per Nick's route operations; strong theme appeal | | Head to Head Pinball Podcast | media | Podcast with Ryan C and Martin; jokingly accused by Slam Tilt of copying their two-person format; received humorous 'cease and desist' letter | | Ryan C | person | Co-host of Head to Head Pinball Podcast; mentioned as part of team 'ripping off' Slam Tilt format in playful segment | | This Weekend Pinball | media | Website providing weekly pinball news summaries; wrote recap of Alien with stream links from Kevin Manning's video | | Bowen Kerins | person | Referenced in joke about opening Pinnberg event instead of Bruce's voice work | ### Topics - **Primary:** Buffalo Pinball Summer Open Tournament Logistics, Game Code Updates and Stability Issues, Alien Game Theme Integration and Mechanics, Pinball Route Operations and Operator Business Model, Tournament Streaming and Media Coverage - **Secondary:** Pocketeer Billiards Venue and Game Selection, Star Wars Game Issues and Beta Code Concerns - **Mentioned:** Podcast Format and Community Recognition ### Sentiment **Positive** (0.78) — Episode maintains enthusiastic, upbeat tone throughout tournament planning discussion. Positive about Alien and venue quality. Frustration expressed about Star Wars and Kiss code limitations, but framed as industry-standard beta concerns. Humorous closing segment softens any critical notes. Strong community engagement and excitement about upcoming event. ### Signals - **[event_signal]** Buffalo Pinball Summer Open confirmed for next weekend with 80+ registered players, Friday-Saturday qualifying (10am-midnight), featuring PAPA full-camera streaming setup with three commentator positions (confidence: high) — Nick Lane: '80 people at least signed up'; Kevin Manning: 'Papa's bringing their rig up this year... all the A Division games... cameraed up, ready to go' - **[code_update]** Star Wars (Stern) running beta code 0.87 with documented multi-stage crash events affecting multiball sequences; excluded from tournament due to instability concerns (confidence: high) — Ron: 'Star Wars was going to be in the tournament, but we can't use it'; Kevin: 'multi-stage crash event... feature lights just stop... then the screen goes dark... then finally the flippers go down' - **[code_update]** Kiss version 1.30 released with bug fixes only; community disappointed by lack of rule depth improvements, particularly regarding city name callouts (confidence: high) — Kevin: 'it's just bugs and people are pissed off because they wanted more than that'; Ron: 'mostly all bug fixes' - **[code_update]** Alien has unreleased code versions 0.98 and 0.99 pending with improvements: first mode now spotted (only scoop required vs. three shot combo), reduced Whaling Utani nagging, pending shaker motor implementation (confidence: high) — Kevin Manning: 'David Thiel... was telling me that there's even a more updated code that's not on that game yet. I think it's at .98, and they have a .99'; describes mode start simplification and tweaks - **[operational_signal]** Nick Lane's new pinball route operation launched April 2024, exceeded expectations growing from 4 planned machines to 10+ across multiple locations with focus on home-collection-quality maintenance standards (confidence: high) — Nick: 'we sat down with my other partners back in April, and we decided to do this. And at the time, we were just thinking about putting maybe four machines out somewhere. Now I think we have ten' - **[venue_signal]** Pocketeer Billiards maintaining 57+ pinball machines with continuous acquisition of newest releases; upgraded to Spectrum high-speed internet for improved streaming capability (confidence: high) — Kevin: 'everybody's just kind of stopped counting because they keep adding games so frequently... up around 50 games, probably higher... It's crazy... something comes out, they get it basically'; 'upgraded their Internet... from Time Warner to Spectrum' - **[design_innovation]** Alien (Cointaker) features functional Xenomorph head mech capturing ball and locking for multiball—marked as among first shipped games with working head capture mechanics, setting new standard for toy implementation (confidence: high) — Kevin: 'the Xenomorph head comes out and grabs the ball and locks it for multiball. This is one of the first games that had shipped with the working head mech. It's awesome'; 'literally that's all i shot was the head' - **[design_philosophy]** Alien demonstrates superior theme integration compared to Star Wars; Kevin contrasts the two: 'night and day as far as theme integration. It's just screams alien. The sound effects are great' (confidence: high) — Kevin Manning: 'The theme integration, you know, I hate to throw Star Wars under the bus again, but you play this and then you play Star Wars and it's like night and day' - **[content_signal]** Kevin Manning created gameplay stream of Alien at Pocketeer to test upgraded internet infrastructure; This Weekend Pinball website highlighted stream moments on YouTube, creating secondary media coverage and content discovery (confidence: high) — Kevin: 'I wanted to go down there and test it out... make sure that everything was solid, no dropped frames'; 'He highlighted moments where the ball was captured by the tongue and things like that' - **[market_signal]** Metallica machines purchased at Allentown for $4,400 represent attractive secondary market acquisition enabling route operator business viability with strong location performance (confidence: high) — Nick Lane: 'we bought a bunch of games down at Allentown. And, you know, getting, like, Metallica for $4,400, you know, you can't beat that. And the gameplay is great' - **[community_signal]** Humorous cease-and-desist segment highlights two-person podcast format becoming standard in pinball media; Slam Tilt and Head to Head Pinball Podcast both use identical format with community acceptance of redundancy (confidence: medium) — Ron: 'I've been listening to this great podcast called head-to-head pinball... they've been kind of ripping us off'; Bruce: 'the two-person podcast... I don't know any other ones where have you seen a two-person podcast before' - **[product_concern]** Star Wars at Pocketeer running beta 0.87 code causes game-breaking crashes affecting playability and tournament viability; soft rejection from competitive use signals confidence issues among operators (confidence: high) — Kevin: 'We have it on location at a brewery... I worry more about it in terms of a tournament'; Nick: 'Star Wars was going to be in the tournament, but we can't use it' --- ## Transcript The fuck? I hate taking showers. Yeah. I don't want some naked dude standing with a schlong right next to me. Yeah, really. I don't want some naked dude standing next to me with a schlong slinging around saying, Hey, good game, man. Coming to you from beautiful upstate New York, this is the Slam Tilt Podcast, a show about all things pinball. I'm your host, Ron Hallett. Here with my co-host, Bruce Nightingale. Deceit and desist letters do work. We'll get into that later. But welcome to episode 56, Robin Hood, Men in Tights, which I have seen. Tights. I have seen. All right. Tight tights. Doesn't have the same guy that was in The Princess Bride. He's in this one. Yes. Yeah, okay. So it is the one I saw. All right. I thought it was funny. It's actually a really good one. And we have our new movies coming up soon. Which are going to be Pink Panther movies. But we have guests. We have guests. We have the two gentlemen who are spearheading the Buffalo Pinball Open for next weekend, our own Nick Lane and Kevin Manning. Howdy. Welcome. Welcome, gentlemen. Thanks for having us back. I was telling Kevin I'm only coming back on if Bruce promises not to do an Australian accent. I will not. I was told I cannot do it, but we have our Australian guy next to us. Who? You have an Australian guy there? You. You are the Australian guy. Yeah. Don't do any accents, Bruce. Not just Australian. Any accents at all. Try not to do it. Jimmy! That's not an accent. That's a voice. That's like the one thing you do. Not too many people can say they do the guy from Space Ace perfectly, but Bruce can. Yes, there you go. But more important stuff, like the Buffalo Pinball Open. Or is it the Buffalo Pinball Summer Open? Did I get that right? There you go. All right. That's it. I wanted to get the right name there, which is a major. You've got some star power coming to this tournament. Yeah. Nick, why don't you talk? Uh-oh. I think Kevin just frozen time somehow. He frozen time. She did. Time Warner. Well, I can list off some of the star power off the top of my head, but when you start doing that, you're going to forget someone, which is a criminal. So my apologies. But we have Robert Gagnon coming. He didn't come last year, so it's a pleasure to have him there. Steven Bowden, Trent Augustine, who won last year. We have Zach Sharp coming. We have a group coming from the New York City area who are all excellent players. Man, we've got like 80 people at least signed up. I wish I had it in front of me, but just some excellent players, some really high-quality play you guys are going to see. And we're planning on streaming it on Friday, qualifying, I think starting at 8 o'clock. And Saturday qualifying starting at 8 o'clock to probably about midnight. So you're going to see a lot of pinball. And then, of course, the finals on Sunday. And Kevin is leading the charge there. Speaking of Kevin, let's see. He looks like he's back on. He's just back on now, so let's try to get him. Let's try to add him to the group call here. Oh, hello. Go Time Warner. I'm like, why isn't anybody saying anything? This is really awkward. But here we are. Nick was just going over all the star power coming to the tournament. Awesome. The format. How is this tournament going to work? So it is mimicking Papa, essentially. Qualifying is on Friday and Saturday. It starts at 10 a.m., and it goes to midnight both nights. It's a bank of ten machines, and your five best scores on five different machines count towards your standing. So if you play it in a Papa style, if you play it in an Herb style, if you play it in a Pump and Dump style, you'll totally understand how this format works. And it is the Irv style in that you don't have to do it all on one ticket. You can just hammer on a particular game and try to get a good score on that. But also in mimicking the Papa tournament, we've got Classics tournaments, which people absolutely love, and I love that as well as a player, even though Kevin and I aren't playing in this. But the Classics tournament is going to be one on Friday from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m., and then playoffs will be starting probably like right after that. and then a totally separate Classics tournament on Saturday, once again from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. We'll have a bank of six machines for each Classics tournament, and players need to play in at least the best four games, four different machines count towards your standings. Excellent. And are you using the same software you did last year? We are using the amazing, awesome software from Carl D'Python Anghelo, the Never Drains software, which, honestly, God, if we didn't have that software, I don't think we'd be doing this tournament because Carl makes us look like professionals. So big shout-out to him and all he does for the hobby. Yeah, shout-out to Carl. I love the pictures. So you'll get your picture taken. You're doing that again, I'm assuming? We're going to take horrible pictures just like we did last year. I doubt the quality is going to be improved knowing us. We'll see. Maybe we'll bring, Bruce, do you have that Buffalo Pinball backdrop? I do. All right. Why don't you bring that, and that way we'll at least take people's pictures. They can stand in front of that. Hopefully I can fit it in my car. Hopefully I can fit it in my car. Yeah, that thing's pretty big, isn't it? I have one. I can fit it in my car. I'll bring mine. Oh, you are a godsend. Look at that. Problem solving on the podcast. Yes. Logistics, baby. So I know everyone, including myself and Ron, are both looking forward to the food trucks. We just signed up another one today, too. So if you want to pinball before you pinball all weekend, there's a pre-summer open tournament, too. And I don't know if Nick talked about this while I was away. I did not. Go right ahead. So our friend Steve Daniels, who you may remember from the previous episode of this very show, he has agreed to run a pre-Buffalo Pinball Summer Open three-strikes tournament on Thursday, the 17th. So he's coming into town. It starts at 5 p.m. I think there's a few, there's probably like 10 or 15 spots left as of today. Today's the 10th. So when this comes out, who knows, there may still be a few spots left. But yeah, it's a three-strikes tournament. If anything goes wrong, if you need a ruling, if you get a ball stuck, do not ask me and Nick. You need to bother Steve Daniels about it because Nick and I are going to be playing in it too and just having a good time. And then all the rest of the weekend, you can bug us about suck balls and rulings and things like that. But let's talk about the food trucks. So this is the important part. So the food trucks. Let me just pull up the list. So I get right. So Thursday we have the Polish Villa food truck. So if you want Polish food like pierogies and Polish sausage, stuff like that, that'll be Thursday. Friday we have Venus Greek and Mediterranean Saturday for Friday. That's for dinner Friday and Thursday. And on Saturday we have a truck coming for lunch and for dinner for lunch. It's K-Cafe Burgers, and for dinner is Anderson's Beef on Weck and Custard, which was that. That was a huge hit. And the important thing about Anderson's is that not only will they serve you dinner, but you can get ice cream. Oh, baby. Yeah. You need sugar, right, Bruce, if you're pinballing? Oh, my God. Well, we got the coffee shop right across the street. Bruce, how many cups of coffee have you had today? Four. Only four. That's low for you. It is low for me. I'm going to send you some studies about having, like, seven cups of coffee, all right? What? We'll send that offline. It's better than those stupid other drinks. Those caffeine, you know, those energy drinks. It's better than meth, but that doesn't say much. What's your point? That's too much coffee, Bruce. That's kind of unhealthy. Oh, God. I don't want to wake up. You didn't know this was an intervention. Yes, no. No interventions. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. So, do you guys know what the list of games is going to be? I'm not going to ask what they are, but do you guys know what the game of the list? We do. And just like we did last year, we're not going to reveal it until pretty much the last minute. The reason being, this is a public location. So if you were to say what games are available, people could be practicing on them right now. And that also puts excess wear and tear on the game. So we're not revealing it. Kevin and I are the only ones who know what the games are. I had also reached out to Josh Sharpe because he's not coming or playing in the tournament and got his feedback. I gave him a list of games and said, Josh, what do you think about them? and he kind of went through it and said, you know, there's some modifications that we need to do on the list of games, but I think he approved pretty much everything we sent to him in terms of the fact that it's okay to use, in his opinion. And Josh was probably thinking, okay, what games are Zach best at? And I'll tell him that those are the games for the tournament. That's what I think. He didn't even suggest any, so it's cool. There's no collusion. Collusion, thank you. Oh, God, not that again. Let's not talk about collusion again. No, no, Pittsburgh is over. but you know what we might do I think we're going to be putting the games in position on Wednesday so as soon as that happens we'll announce it so everybody knows what's going on I'm dropping off the one Saturday yeah thank you by the way I think everybody knows but Bruce is bringing two games two classics games which is generous that way we can mix up the at least most of the classics the ones that we had and used last year he can't stop talking about his hot dog so everybody knows about that one I love the gift you gave me. Oh, you like that? Yes, very much. Let's move on. No, this is my podcast. I got to be raunchy as hell on that. No, it was really fun. This is why you guys don't do it live. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. I have to add it, Bruce. Yes. Ron is the busiest man in editing the podcast. You ain't kidding. We had to add an extra day to it. That's how bad it is. So tell them about Pocketeer and tell them how many games are there. Let's get some people who are borderline on this. Pocketeer has, well, people have kind of, there was a running joke the other day that everybody's just kind of stopped counting because they keep adding games so frequently. But they're up around 50 games, probably higher than that. I think it's 57. Yeah. It's crazy. and they keep adding the most recent games so they have Star Wars, they have Diablo, they have Alien, they have everything. It's like something comes out, they get it basically. So we're pretty spoiled when it comes to that, which is a problem I like to have. Buffalo, if you haven't been, it's in a renaissance period of sorts. The waterfront, they're finally developing the waterfront in Buffalo. It's nice. You can go down and kayak on the Niagara River. You can hang out at Canal Side. They got concerts there every Thursday. So if you come in Thursday, I'm not sure who's playing the Thursday before, but you can go to Niagara Falls. It's like a 20-minute drive away. So there's lots to do. If you go on our website, buffalopinball.com slash poppercircuit, there's a location and travel section where it's got some of the things you can do in town. Go to Elmwood or Allentown. Go to Daring Lake. All sorts of stuff. Walling Gallery is nearby if you want to do some shopping. Tons of cool stuff to do. if you, for some reason, don't want to play pinball the whole time, but most of us are just going to be playing pinball, and there's a lot of good pinball to be had. And bars are open until 4 a.m. if that's important to you. Oh, yes. And will Deathlehem be playing at any of them? I wish. I wish. We can dream, Ron. If you're wondering what we're talking about, listen to the latest Bro, Do You Even Pinball to find out about Deathlehem. That was an amazing story. I'm glad we got to share that with everyone. Friar barf. Friar barf. Okay. And don't forget, it's for everyone. If you want to play in a pinball tournament and your family wants to go do something, definitely there's a lot of things to do in Buffalo, so don't feel like it's just pinball only. If you bring the whole family, convince them, it's a great time. Yeah, and anybody can play in the tournament too. I think people hear Pop is a second major and they're like, oh, it's only for people who are really good, but it's open to everybody. I think Classics, too, especially, are kind of a more level playing field for a lot of folks. So come play in the Classics tournaments. Come try your hand at the big main tournament. And because of the format, if you get a bad score, you just try again. So it's fun, and I think everybody has a shot. On the streaming side, we've also got – so Papa's bringing their rig up this year. So last year, if you watched the coverage, it was basically me running around with three webcams, switching them around between the games. But they're going to have all the A Division games, all the main tournament games, cameraed up, ready to go. They're going to have three commentator mics. So we got kind of a commentator schedule going. The plan is to stream qualifying Thursday or Friday and Saturday like we did last year from about 8 p.m. to midnight. and then all the finals on Sunday, the playoffs and finals on Sunday. So it's going to be lots of coverage coming at you. So it should be good. Wow. So they're actually going to have, like, the individual games are going to be camera'd up, like, at the same time. Yep. So we'll be able to switch between all ten games. Oh, wow. Wow. And they have a commentator schedule. They have everything. They thought of everything. I have a commentator schedule. No. I'm leading the charge on a lot of that. That's all Kevin, man. He did a great job last year doing the stream. So congratulations, Kevin. You got the job again. Well, you know, that's what happens in pinball. You do something for free and you do a decent job at it and they let you do it again. That's nice. It is. Great system. So I'm assuming Roller Coaster Tycoon is not going to be in this year. That's the only thing. No. There's probably going to be one or two weird ones because Kevin and I, here's what I can say in generalities. When we do that, we like to pick it. You got ten games, right? Yes. So we like to pick two or three that you never see in finals or playoffs or in an A division or anything like that and put them in there just to kind of, not to throw people off, but just to be interesting, right? And especially for watching on the stream. And you can see why people don't pick Roller Coaster Tycoon. But there you go. At least we've got it on camera. You've got people playing the game. So that's kind of the philosophy behind that. whereas 70% of the games are going to be more or less standard games that people have seen before in a tournament. I have an idea. Now, me and Bruce, we have no knowledge of what the games are going to be in the main tournament. Nope. Correct? Can we get confirmation? We do not know. Okay. So let's each guess one of the weird games that we think they're going to have. We will not acknowledge it. And they will not acknowledge it, but I'm going to guess, and I want to see if I'm going to be right. We will just remain silent. And I've only been to Pucketture the one time, so I'm just going by memory what I remember. And they've got some weird ones. They've got some, yes. I mean, we ran the whole tournament there. Yeah. Gilligan's Island, that's mine. Oh, wow. No, I don't buy that one. I'm going to pick one of the new ones they got, and it is just a one-hit wonder, but I'm going to go with Indiana Jones. Oh, you mean the IJ4? No. they have a new iJ. Regular, the old Williams. I love how you say the new. No, the old. Well, it's new to them. It's new to them, but yes, it's new. iJ, I'm thinking. Really? I don't know. You think that's a non-standard game? I mean. Well, the thing is, the only thing bad about iJ is it's just multiball. Okay. Tune in next time to see if these guys are right. Tune in next time to see if we're right. I'm telling you, I can feel it. Same bad time, same bad channel. But, uh, The pocket here does have a kiss there. And going into news a little bit, Kiss got the supposed, people are saying, polishing touches on the code of 1.30. Have you guys heard about the new code for Kiss? I've heard about it. I read the updates. It looks like it's just bugs and people are pissed off because they wanted more than that. And coincidentally, I'm getting a kiss tomorrow delivered to my house to babysit for a while because it's going to be going on location. Oh, that's cool. Excellent. People really want the cities to do something, and the cities still don't do anything. Well, that's not true. They say the name of the city. Oh, well, there you go. There you go. Somebody told me that, too. And I guess depending on what city you pick. You know, hello, Pittsburgh. You know, we love you or whatever. I don't know what the huge deal is. It was mostly all bug fixes. Yep. I mean, our own Tim Sexton, Mr. Rules, he has no problems with the game the way it is. So if he's satisfied with the rules, they can't be that bad. I feel like there's other games that people should be upset about over KISS. You know, KISS is nothing special rules-wise, and you can be disappointed in that. I'll give you that. It shoots great, sounds okay, there's not really a good toy on it, and the rules are just, you know, they're there. They're not the worst rules, they're not the best rules, but they're functional. There's other games that people should probably be really pissed off about. Da-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na. Batman. I don't know what you could be talking about. certain games that may or may not have game breaking bugs in them. Oh, that's true. Well, we wanted to use star Wars. Star Wars was going to be in the tournament, but we can't use it. So no, it was one that we had on the list. God, no, that would just be a crash fest or a 2 billion points are 2 trillion points. Yeah. Well, it's running beta code. I still don't believe they even put that in Pinberg. It's 0.87. It's .87 for a reason. Right. Yeah. I agree. But we got to see the video finally. You were talking about that last week. Oh, yeah. Steph posted the video. The video. You can watch it crash. A multi-stage crash event. Was that the video that Tim Balls put up today Yes Yeah I watched a little bit of it It on there and we singing along to it as it crashes It wonderful I never seen a game crash in phases Like I stated on our last podcast, just think of Johnny Mnemonic, like the shutdown as things stop working, and that's how it crashed. Except it's not supposed to do that. Well, no, it's not supposed to do that. But it's all normal, and then the feature lights just stop. They go off. Like, oh, that's odd. but you can still play, and then the screen goes dark. Okay, this is a problem, but you can still play, and then finally the flippers go down. Interesting. So I was playing it the last weekend, and I got to hyperspace multiball, and what had happened was at one point during hyperspace multiball, it's like no matter what shot I hit, it wasn't scoring anything, and all the lights were just kind of flashing like wildly. So what I ended up doing, I was like, well, I guess I have to drain. So I drained one ball, got back to normal play, and it went back to normal. What Steven Bowden thinks it was is he got hyperspace multiball after he got victory laps, and he thinks that's what causes the crash. If you're in hyperspace and then get victory laps, it won't crash, something like that. It's just scary. It really is. But as you said, we are the beta testers. Which, this is a good segue, as Nick is an operator now. Yes, he is. So what's your opinion on this kind of thing, the fact that you have this Star Wars machine that is basically running beta code? Do you worry about the thing, like, going completely haywire? I worry more about it in terms of a tournament. We have it on location at a brewery, and we had a Metallica there, and the Metallica did great there. So I imagine it's a lot of casual people playing it that they might not know, like, you know, it's supposed to be scoring. They'll probably know if it shuts down and crashes for sure, but I'm guessing that's pretty rare. I've played the game dozens of times, and I haven't noticed that happen yet. And how is business for you so far as your new entrepreneur? I would say good. We've exceeded expectations because I sat down with my other partners back in April, and we decided to do this. And at the time, we were just thinking about putting maybe four machines out somewhere. Now I think we have ten. We have more locations than we thought we would have, and it's been going well. We're actually to the point now where we're just trying to figure out how much time we can dedicate to it because there's obviously a finite number to the machines that we can put out, and there's a finite number of locations that we can handle reasonably and to the standards that we want to have our games be playing at. And our games, if you go and play them, they're like playing games in a home collection, and that's kind of the standards that we set for ourselves. So are they all mostly new sterns, or are these like maybe some Williams thrown in? They're mostly new sterns, and we timed it right because we bought a bunch of games down at Allentown. And, you know, getting, like, Metallica for $4,400, you know, you can't beat that. And the gameplay is great and has mods. You know, we've made smart decisions like that. We've got a couple older ones. Like, we got an NBA, Bally Williams, and that game's surprisingly doing well for where it's at. People really enjoy that game. I don't know if it's because they can put up initials for every team and people are trying to knock each other out, but that was a surprise to us. We've got a Bride of Pinbot out on location. We've got a Stern Monopoly out on location. So those are our older ones right now, but most are new Sterns. And Ghostbusters is killing it, and so is Metallica. Those are the two games that I've heard universally do well. Ghostbusters, killing it on location. What do you got to say to that, Bruce? I know it kills on location just just people love the theme man they do the thing about the game that Nick has on location too is it's set up like he said he likes it to play like it's in somebody's home collection and it's set up like a game that would be in your home collection because it's set up it plays fair compared to somebody who just takes it out of the box and throws it out there it's set up so when you hit the ramp, it returns right, the scoops don't shoot it right down the middle, things like that. We did a lot of work on it. We did a lot of work to get it playing like that. And the sclery targets just broke the other week, so we've got to fix those. Are you sure that the players might like that? I think they do. I think the game actually plays much better with it broken, to be honest. I agree. I put up like $3 billion on ball one the other day with them broken. But the operators love the Scolari Brothers, right? That's exactly right, man. I miss those goddamn Scolari Targets. They're a moneymaker. Get those dollars flying. I hear that when I'm out there and somebody's playing, I hear, oh, the Scolari Brothers. I'm like, yes. I never thought of it that way. So Scolari Brothers, operator friendly. So, Kevin, a week ago you did a nice tutorial video on Amplified. Alien since Pocketeer just got one. Yeah, I wouldn't exactly call it a tutorial since it was literally the first time I'd ever played it, but it's one of the new games that just shipped from Cointaker, so it's, you know, if you know kind of the backstory about Alien and the new funders that they have, and, you know, there was a whole bunch of questions of whether or not this game was ever going to get made, but they did end up building a handful of them, and we were lucky enough to get one of them here in Buffalo. So, I wanted to... It was mostly an excuse to test the Internet because the Pocketeer had just upgraded their Internet. Because, you know, we went from Time Warner to Spectrum, and they were able to get a deal where they're going to have good, high-quality Internet year-round now. So hopefully we'll be able to do more streaming there. But before the summer opened, I wanted to go down there and test it out, make sure, actually run a stream, make sure that everything was solid, no dropped frames, things like that. And I figured might as well play some Alien since it's here and not a whole lot of folks have it. So I think the reception to the stream has been great. I mean, it's just the gameplay stream. It's not like us doing a formal tutorial, but people really wanted to see where the game is currently code-wise. And I was talking to David Thiel, who did the sound on that game, and he was telling me that there's even a more updated code that's not on that game yet. I think it's at .98, and they have a .99 that improves some of it. So one of the things, so to light your modes to start your first mode, you have to roll over the right-in lane, the left-in lane, and hit the scoop to start your first mode. Well, now with the new code, the first mode is spotted. So all you have to do is hit the scoop to start your first mode, and then after that, you have to do right-in, left lane, right lane, and then into the scoop. And he said they also tweaked some of it. People were saying it was kind of nagging you a little too much to hit the Whaling Utani. Those are the two shots. That's what they call them, to light year modes. And he's like, we tweak that. So there's a lot of more improvements. I guess there's shaker motor in it, but it's not implemented yet. So that's still on the way. General impressions overall of the game is I love it. The theme integration, you know, I hate to throw Star Wars under the bus again, but you play this and then you play Star Wars and it's like night and day as far as theme integration. It's just screams alien. The sound effects are great. The playfield toys are awesome when the Xenomorph head comes out and grabs the ball and locks it for multiball. This is one of the first games that had shipped with the working head mech. It's awesome. It's a great moment. It has those moments that you really want out of a pinball machine. So I'm excited to see where it goes. It's great already, and it's one of my most anticipated games right now. I'm excited. I want to play that now that you just said that the tongue actually works. Yeah, that's what's cool. like it's there so everybody coming to the summer open is going to be able to play it as long as it holds up fingers crossed yeah because they had it at texas and literally that's all i shot was the head to get the thing the the light to see the the whole tongue thing and they had it deactivated so the magnet stopped it and then his mouth opens and then nothing happened and i just released it and started multiball yeah no if uh actually if you go to uh there's a new website i don't know if you guys have talked about it it's called this weekend pinball they do like a weekly summary of the happenings of the week in pinball. He wrote up a big kind of recap of Alien because he had recently played it too, and he included a bunch of links to the stream that I did that's now on YouTube. So he highlighted moments where the ball was captured by the tongue and things like that. So you can go through that, and it's a good way to kind of find the cool points of the stream. You're world famous. Something. Pinball famous. Yeah. B-list celebrities. That's right. I'm D, God You've got that voice, Bruce Do people recognize you? I know that voice I got that a lot You know you love it Bruce loves it Don't let him kid you Every time he goes to the show He talks about it on this podcast He's like, come on up to us, we'll give you autographs We'll take your pictures The worst thing was When we're in a group And people are going They look at you and you're playing along, and you walk away, and you go behind and another person plays, and he turns and he goes, I've heard you before. Like, yeah, where? Podcasts or just in general? Probably both. Probably just me walking around. They heard him playing Bram Stoker's Dracula when the multipliers go up. Oh, the multipliers sound, Bruce. That's the one. Come on, Kevin. See, he just knows how to get me going. I know it. I know all the buttons to push. They probably just heard your voice. They should have you at the beginning of Pinburgh instead of Bowen. Without the microphone, just yell. Yeah. If you ever need somebody in a room to say something loud, Bruce is your guy. Bruce is a professional. Yes. Thank you, guys. Thank you. So I'm glad the Australians got our cease and desist letter today. and if you're wondering what we're talking about bruce explain it to him well i've been listening to this great podcast called head-to-head pinball with ryan c and uh martin and uh they've been kind of uh ripping us off yeah yeah i i say that the two-person podcast uh well i don't know any other ones where have you seen a two-person podcast before I don't know. That's an entirely new and innovative format. You guys patented that, I think. Actually, Bruce, didn't our podcast come on after the Bro podcast? So technically we might be – well, forget about that. Forget about that. Hold on. I've got Tommy popping in and Taylor. They're chiming in. Hold on. Okay. Well, they stole our mail ball bag. They can have it. I don't want it. Yeah. Yeah, seriously, dude. That's a little personal. What else did you steal, Ron? You heard it today. You heard episode two. They said a piece of news, which I've never heard said before you said it. Yeah. Has anyone ever heard anyone say a piece of news? It was one of those classic Bruce moments. Yeah, I thought that was a Bruce-ism, but obviously it ain't. You have to call it the piece of news from now on, yeah. Yeah. But they actually heard us talking about it, and they actually made the letter, and they posted it today and it says Ryan C. and Martin Head to Head Pinball Podcast Penal Colony Road, Outback, Australia and it says cease and desist plagiarism of pinball podcast intellectual property Dear Ryan C. and Martin, I represent the Slamtail Podcast and I'm referring to your amazing third pinball based podcast episode titled Episode 3 Don't Use Multipliers! Use the Force! Oh, my. Your incorrect use of capitalization and unnecessary explanation points, which I know Kevin will love, points alone has caused serious distress to my clients, Ron Hallett Jr. and Bruce Nightingale, not to mention the strain that has now put on my relationship with Brad. This is George Takai actually speaking in. Further, we need to refer to one hour, 21 minutes, and 22 seconds into episode three where you have infringed on my client's intellectual properties using the phrase male ball bag. Oh, my. This will not do. Oh, my. No. We are now concerned that you have copied their format using two co-hosts as your show is becoming higher quality, four more informative, and constantly discusses competition pinball, which no one is interested in. No. We've also been instructed to write you. And then he says, the Slamtail podcast demands that you cease and desist from using the following phrases. One, mail ball bag. Two, oh my. Three, good day, lads. And it says, Ron used this before you, which is funny since they're Australian. Four, pinball tournament. As above, no one is interested in tournaments. Five, what's happening this week? No one cares. We hope to hear from you as a matter of urgency. In the meantime, all the rights and remedies of the Slamtail podcast are reserved. Yours faithfully, oh my, George Takei. And it says on the bottom, Hallett Nightingale and Takei solicitors. And on the top it has our two pictures. And it has now a little George Takei in there also. Yeah, he's in our logo. I want that. I want that picture. I sent it to you. I sent the PDF. So I'll have to crop that out. Yes, you will. George Takei is now in our logo. It's awesome. It is. So it's quite funny. But nice job, guys. Very nice job. Scratch that off the list. Now you have to say something, Ron. What? I do? You have to say something in Australian. Say it. All right, mate. It's get a dog up ya. What does that mean? It's like F you in Australian. Oh, great, great. Now we're being offensive in other dialects. Thanks, Bruce. What's wrong with that? What's wrong with that? So what's wrong with Star Wars? Why don't you guys like Star Wars? Don't you realize multipliers are awesome? Don't you like hitting the button? We have a wonderful 30-minute video where we wax poetic on why we don't like Star Wars. You can catch it on our Buffalo Pinball YouTube channel. But the long and the short of it is it's just they phoned it in, man. It's a barren play field. Look, Steve Ritchie delivered a game that shoots well. I mean, no surprise there. The guy's a genius in design. Dwight has some inventive rules that maybe in another game would have made more sense, where it's more stop and go. But when you kind of smash them together, this fast-flowing gameplay that wants you to try to trap up the ball where you really can't trap up the ball, and then control this third button that's controlling multipliers, I mean, your eyes are going to start getting crossed trying to do that. added to the fact that it's just this barren play field with unremarkable art. It's disappointing. And as Kevin alluded to earlier, Kevin, why don't you talk about the moments? That's one of the biggest issues. There aren't any. You get multiball and it just starts. It's in the middle of your play. It's like, oh, you have TIE Fighter multiball. It's like, I don't even know what I did to make it happen, but here it is. And it's not going to congratulate me. or it's not like Showtime on the Adam's Day. That's true. I never even thought of that. Yeah, it doesn't really do anything, does it? I like Ghostbusters when you go into the story facility and all the lights start going on and off, and you're like, all right, let's get hyped. There's nothing. It's just like, okay, I have a multi. Yeah, you're right, because you don't even really know. You do it, and then you hit the button, and then you see the ball savers on. Why is the ball saver on now? And then balls are coming out. Like, oh, it's multiball. Okay. Yeah, or you play through your set of scenes, and then you get another multiball. And it's like, oh, well, I guess I did something good because now I have a multiball, but I don't really know how. Like Nick mentioned this during our review. It's like me, Nick, and Martha and a couple other folks were playing it the first time and we were streaming it. It took us like two hours to get the multiball from any of us to figure out how to get a multiball going on that game. There's nothing obvious. Yeah, and then you watch the stream and they have to have Elwynn play it forever until the Death Star blows up. Right, that's like the one thing everybody wants to see. the one thing everyone wants to see. And, you know, I think it also suffers, like, the modes. They just feel like shots. Which, I said that about Star Trek. It's very similar. You start a mode, and it's just like, okay, this shot's lit this color. Okay? And as much as I, everyone knows, you know, I'm not the biggest Ghostbusters fan in the world, I will say at least their modes had some kind of personality. like even though I don't have the game anymore I can remember what they were yeah and that's you know that's the one thing that I don't know for me it's a big factor in why I enjoy playing pinball it's I want to have a good time I want it to tell kind of a story I want it to be fun and like get you hyped up and Star Wars aside from like the sheer speed of it and like reacting to the ball where the code is right now it doesn't really do anything for me I just wonder if they blew the entire budget to get the license and just didn't have any money left over for anything else. I think you were saying Disney was restrictive on what they were trying to do, but how restrictive do you really have to be that that's what you end up with? At the end of the day, I feel like it's too much of an excuse where there might be some truth in that, but it's still disappointing, and they phoned it in because guess what? People are going to buy Star Wars no matter what, and guess what? Our Star Wars is earning on location because it's Star Wars. It's kind of stupid. when you really think about it, but it's true. They don't have to hustle that much on that game. But I feel like they're definitely losing customers to Jersey Jack, who created this kind of head-scratching theme right at first, but then people go and play the game and they see the value and they realize how amazing it is in terms of a pinball machine. And you go on Pinside and you see this all the time, with people saying, I'm out, I'm canceling my LE order, I'm going dialed in, which is quite the surprise. Who would have seen that coming? Yeah, well, that's the thing, too, is like there's so many options right now between like Total Nuclear Annihilation and Alien and Dialed In and whatever's coming next from everybody. It people you know five years ago the CERN game came out and he either bought that or he didn Now it like well maybe I just hold out and see what either they going to come out with next Because Aerosmith was great You know awesome art package fun toys good shots You know, maybe their next game will be better or I'll just wait or I'll get something for my competitor. So it's surprising to me that they phoned it in so much on this. I mean, like Nick said, they really didn't have to go all out because people are just going to buy it because it's Star Wars. But considering how competitive the market is right now, you'd think they would really kind of like try to knock one out of a park and like take all those sales away from Dialed In and Alien and stuff like that and make this their like signature game for the next few years. Because look at like Metallica. That game's been selling amazing for how many years? Because it's an amazing game. Same with Walking Dead. They could have really done that again here. And, you know, maybe it was the license. Maybe the cost was just so prohibitive that they either had to go like Batman 66 ridiculous price or cut things out to make it come in at the regular appropriate LE prices. Who knows? It can't be that much. It's just it's very un-Richie-like to not have an LE that's not LE, if that makes any sense. We talked about this on the last podcast. Like Star Trek, for example. I mean, that LE looked like an LE. I mean, you looked at the thing, it had the lasers on the side, it had all this stuff in it that wasn't in a premium or a pro. But when you look at the Star Wars, I mean, what's different? The art package? I mean, it doesn't even have a shaker, right? They don't do that anymore on the LEs. They're cutting out shaker motors that doesn't even have a real back glass in it anymore. It's like those little things that the people who buy LEs really appreciate and are willing to spend a little bit more to get it, other than just being able to say, oh, I got one of 800 or whatever. To take that away, it's really a shame. Well, they gave more of a value in their lean years when they were struggling during the recession, you know, and they were starting coming out. You got so much of a better value. Now Stern is killing it. They're doing well. Their games are selling well. And they jacked up the price and they lowered the quality. It just doesn't make any sense. You're going to lose customers because now you have competition. So I don't get it. It's too bad. Do you feel like they can save Star Wars with code? They can make it better. I don't think it's going to be – I don't know by save. I mean, yeah, they can fix the bugs. They can make it better. Is Dwight going to get rid of the multipliers that you rotate? I don't know. That seems like such a big thing in that game. There's a lot of work that needs to be done in terms of just even, like as Kevin said, making those moments. There's a lot of work that needs to be done. and you know they've done it in the past look what walking dead turned into at first and nobody wanted to play that game now it's one of my favorite games of all time uh so it is possible but it seems like nowadays stern is coming out with games and the code is kind of where it's going to be and maybe eventually you'll get some updates but it's not going to progress drastically beyond what you get out of the box you know i hope that changes for like batman 66 and for Star Wars, but who knows? You can't bet on the future. You just got to go with what's there now. It is weird. It's crazy when you look at like a Aerosmith next to a Star Wars. Just the difference. I mean, look at the toy. Look at the toy box. The ball goes through the air. Look what it does when you start multiball. The whole thing shakes and the thing goes like ape shit. And the LCD animations are great. The ARC package is great. And guess what? That game's $100 less. Yep. Now, here's the funny thing. All four of us have dialed ins on order. Oh, yeah, that's right. And we have not said anything bad about the rules because they're complete. And it's been one of the selling points for that game. Well, actually, I haven't said anything bad about them because I don't know what they are and haven't really played it on the new rules. Fail. I played Kevin at Pinberg. That was my one game of dialed in on the new rules. That's right. I've played it for a ridiculous number of hours streaming because we played it at Pinball Done Quick and I got to Armageddon there and you know Pinball Joe and Chris Newsom both got to Showdown so the fact that all that's in there you can do it all right now they may polish it up in the future and you know make it a little more balanced if it needs to be balanced I don't see anything ridiculously out of balance but you know I'm not a high level tournament player either but you know everything's there so i'm confident buying that game because even if it doesn't ever get another code update which is highly unlikely uh it's still a great game as it sits and that's a big selling point right you don't have to guess plus they're you know jersey jack you know look at hobbit and wizard of oz how many times they've updated code and they've proven that they're willing to stick with it and and keep updating given they haven't been producing as many games as stern so it's a lot easier for them to keep going back and working on other games while they're still trying to bring the new game to market. That's a selling point. That's a selling point. When did they start production? When was the official production start of Dialed In? I think it was in June, wasn't it? Did he meet his deadline? Oh yeah, he did. Because he said second quarter of 2017. We've got to give kudos there. He did the cartwheel. Yeah, if you called it that. And supposedly Game 4 is going to be released, information-wise, at this year's Expo. They got a new designer working on that, too. Yes. That is nice that we have a couple of new designers. Yeah, it's encouraging to see Scott Denisey and Eric Muner from Jersey Jack working on games. And we need the next gen to start stepping up here. Yeah, I like what they said at Coast to Coast Pinball. Someone should hire Scott Denisey after he's done with Total Nuclear Annihilation. just hire him on. Yeah, totally. He's proven himself, it looks like. Spooky should hire him. I think Jersey Jack with the quality and his ideas. They should hire him. And then get the Star Wars license and just bury him. Redo it. We're going to do it the right way. Revised. This is the special edition, right? Yes. It's like Lucas going back and redoing animations. I don't even want to talk about that. Dude, does anyone – I think you mentioned on your podcast, like, who is the voice supposed to be? The actual – the voice that's in there that gets jackpot call-outs? I don't know. I don't want to put out misinformation. What I heard – because what I heard from either in-person conversation or in pencil, I think it's maybe a voice actor from the Clone Wars, the animated series. Okay. I don't know. Again, it's just like, yeah, okay, whatever, right? Get Mark Dick Hamill. Yeah, why not? He can't be that expensive. It can't be that expensive. Yeah, and then let's get somebody from the Clone Wars when the entire pin is about the original trilogy. Yeah, the Clone Wars. It doesn't make any sense. Yeah, that doesn't make any sense either. I could be wrong, but... It does kind of sound like that now that you mentioned it and I went back and played it. It kind of sounds like a Clone Wars guy, but... They have terms like youngling in there. It's like, no, that's not from the original trilogy. Why is that in there? That alone annoyed me when I saw that come up. And you can go to tattooing. Is it spelled wrong? Yes it is I feel like I fixed it It was wrong in one of those screens You know you ooze you loose You know you know how it goes So Game you like Game you hate We do have the guests on We need to see what they did or did not like And most likely it's probably game from Pinberg I know mine are Mine are too I got mine I didn't pick a game from Pinberg Kevin just messaged me right when the thing started and said Pinberg. So I will look at that list, but I will go with my original one if I can't find anything better. So please kick it off, Kev. I just set that list in case you wanted to dig through it, what you played at Pinberg. But it doesn't have to be from Pinberg. Mine happens, my hate happens to be from Pinberg. Should I kick it off? For it. All right. The game I like is Alien. You know, we talked about it before, and it's a game I can't wait to go play again. And it was just so much fun. And I think that really came across in that stream that it's just like, you know, when you get like the sentry guns and multiball going and then you rip the spinners and the machine guns start firing and stuff like that, it's just so much fun. The shots are kind of weird and different, but I like that about it. It's not your standard kind of flow game. And, you know, I think that's why I like Ghostbusters 2. It's just a little different. Not necessarily always great when it comes to shooting things, but it's unusual, and I like that about it. Kind of what it made me feel like on Alien is, like, you had kind of a standard playfield area in the middle, and then there was, like, extra stuff around it, if that makes sense. It was like a standard body with extra stuff. So that was the impression I got from Alien, but that's my game I like. Game I hate, that's coming to me from Pinberg, and Bruce is going to like this one. Okay. Shack Attack. Oh, yeah. Hell, yeah. oh the game is terrible shoot the basket so it was just like like to be fair i don't understand how to play that game because it's extremely convoluted and it's a gottlieb 90s game but it was just like handing out multi-balls to people and i kept hitting the same shot and it didn't wasn't giving me the random multiball i'm like give me the freaking multiball and then on ball three i almost tilted out when i had a ball save and then i hit the shot and it gave me the random multiball and i was able to at least get a point out of it but welcome to gotley rule sets you're trying to hit that basket it's like it's impossible it's stupid the thing moves back and forth and you're shooting it through the air it's like forget this game it's a piece of garbage and we're lucky to have one in rochester it's swillberger swillberger uh here's some interesting trivia when gotley went out of business and filed for bankruptcy or whatever um shack was on the list like he hadn't got his full payment. He was a creditor? Yeah. So I thought that was kind of funny. So he didn't even get his full payment for that turd. One of the modes in that game is you have to spell Shaquille. It's not even just Shaq. It's full name. Let's make it harder. Yeah. How is his name spelled? S-H-A-Q-U-E-L-L-E? Something like that. Something like that. It's a lot of letters. That's all I know. Not even guessing on that one. All right, I'll go next. Game I like. This is kind of an interesting one. You see it at tournaments a lot in Papa, because they like to use this game a lot. And I know Keith Owen likes it because he destroys it. Godzilla. Didn't mind it at all. Yeah, I've only played it a few times, but I like it. I like it too. Shoots good. It's got kind of a try-to-stack multi-balls thing, which is kind of a simple rule set. But I like it. Let's see. Game I hate. Wow, there's just so many here. I'm looking at this list of... Oh, Raven. There you go. Good choice. Raven. And I'm not like Bruce. I don't hate every Gottlieb. Especially a lot of the mid-80s ones I kind of think are interesting. That ain't one of them. I have a soft spot for Raven because of that amazing back glass. Oh, God, no. you clearly did not play it in pinberg did you i did not know okay all right we played it for fun afterwards but they uh somebody told me a fun fact about raven at pinberg and i don't know if this is true but apparently the helicopter that's on the backlash is not even like a combat helicopter it's like a news or traffic copter that they brought in for the for the photo shoot i know i was like this makes me love this game even more so it's kind of great that is classic i don't know if it's true or not, but I want it to be true. You would have loved at Pinball Expo, they had the guy that was responsible for taking all those pictures, like all those photo back glasses. That's amazing. I want to shake that man's hand. Well, he had great stories like the Miami Vice. I'm sorry. The Hollywood Heat one with the car. The car that's in there actually was owned by some kind of crime dude that he borrowed, and then it ended up getting destroyed and he thought he was going to get killed. Wow. Yeah, he had a really cool story. I don't know if they record any of those. I don't think they do, unfortunately. But he had a lot of interesting stories. He was right there. I could have asked him that Raven question. He probably could have told me the answer. Sorry, Bob. Okay, game I like at Pinberg. Demoman played pretty good for me. Got a three on it. I was very happy. and a game I hate, Soundstage. Soundstage. What the hell is that? Chicago coin, 75, where you have to hit the two targets on the outside to light the two targets on the inside. And then when you hit the target, the spinner goes around and around and gives you thousands of points. But if you hit it too squarely, it hits the center post and rebounds right back down the drain. What do you think happened to me all those times? Well, does every soundstage do that or just the one you played? Well, the one I played, for me it did. Everyone else did great on it. I stuck moose balls. I think I played that one at Pemberton. I'm just looking at my games I played. It seems familiar to me. Yeah, it's terrible. Oh, it killed me. Did he play it? Did he not play it? You don't have to wait for me. You can chime in. I'll chime in later once I figure it out. I will take it over from here. So the game I like is Gottlieb's, wait for it, Bad Girls. Oh, yes, we knew that was coming. Yeah, you knew it was coming, man. I legitimately like that game. It's like 8-Ball Deluxe, right? It is 8-Ball Deluxe. Here's what it is, Ron. So if you're already intrigued, but anybody who's listening, if you're intrigued by the fact that it's like 8-Ball Deluxe and you like 8-Ball Deluxe, okay, you're going to like the game pretty much. It's kind of reversed, so the flipper's on the other side, the target's on the other side on this game. But it's like 8-Ball Deluxe with a multiball. It's got a hurry-up in it. It's got two spinners, a skill shot, and some amazing 80s music by Gottlieb. Wow. What is there not to like? That sounds like a great game. Honestly, I don't know. And it's got the cheesy back glass, which just tops it off for me. So I think the game is really good, really fun. It's got a vary target instead of the drop targets from the multiplier, so it's something different, something fun. It's a great game. We're looking forward to streaming it so everybody else can kind of share in that. But I've never really heard anything about that game or anybody saying, oh, my God, that's a great game, but I feel like this is a hidden gem. I'm happy to have it. You're not just hyping it up so you can sell it in a couple weeks, right? Well, Martha won't let me sell it because she half owns it. and while we were podcasting, she's upstairs playing it. I don't know if you guys heard it, but she plays it like every day for half an hour. She loves that game. So that's not leaving, and I don't want it to leave because it's amazing, and it's the kind of thing you just won't get it back in that nice of a shape. So that's a keeper. I can't imagine it leaving. Nice. Game I hate. So I looked at my Pimberg list, and I wasn't going to pick Raven, Ron, because I didn't walk away from Pimberg hating a game, which is amazing. But if I had to pick one from Pinkberg, it would have been that game. I put that bank in the way that Raven was playing. I don't know if it was just set up to the point to make me hate it or if the game is just that bad. But it's like you just couldn't get a flip on the thing or do anything in that game. It was really frustrating. But game that I hate is Fireball Classic. That game is absolute garbage. Should have never been made. They took Fireball, which is a fine game for its time. What's that, early 70s, Bruce? Yes, 72. Right. It was an EM. It made sense. And then in 1984, I believe, they came out with Fireball Classic. And it's just god-awful, man. It's just way too random. It's just this crazy luck vest. The sounds are horrible on it. The back glass is all washed out. And I think it's supposed to be that way, too, in everyone I've seen. It's just trash. Do yourself a favor and never play it, I should say. Really? I'm going to be playing it this weekend? Go nuts, Ron. You won't have to fight anybody to get on it. They have one at Rock Fantasy, man. Fireball Classic. I actually like it, so I'm in the minority there. I will admit, though, it has some of the worst sounds. Please tell me some of the merits of it. Try to convince me that it's not just one of the worst games ever made. Three-ball, multiball? Yeah, up to three-ball, multiball. I mean, it has the same general rule set as the original fireball. And now you lock balls and you hit mushroom bumpers to unlock the balls. It has the same kickback. Extremely bonus heavy. That's the difference. You get in a multiball and your score goes up exponentially. It's actually good for group play because of all the lock stealing. I think, anyway. I love lock stealing and, like, force them when you're playing it. I won my game because someone had a ball locked when I got up, and I got the multiball. And it has the same skill shot as fireball, which is one of the coolest skill shots, one of the harder ones. The sounds are horrible. The art isn't that great. It has the same spinning disc. It doesn't have the zipper flippers, so they don't really. somebody modified a Fireball Classic I remember that had zipper flippers that must have been interesting I think the problem between the original Fireball and Fireball Classic is that the spinning disc makes the original slower EM interesting with zipper flippers but the spinning disc on a 1984 Bally is just way too wild and way too random on a faster game I think because it is a fast game it just ramps up that randomness to the point where it just to me it seems more of a luck box than anything else It is cool when you see the ball going right down the middle and it hits the disc and it doesn't go down the middle. Then you're liking the disc. I'm surprised. I'm actually surprised to hear that you like it. I am in the minority at Rock Fantasy as far as people who like it. Usually it sits in front of the store and it's off. Okay. But what can I say? You ready for some mail ball bags, sir? Oh, God. Is everyone ready for a mail ball bag? I've never been more ready than right now. As ready as I can be, question mark? Well, I'm going to jump ahead of you. Oh, you're going to jump ahead of me. Okay. Yes. I just got a comment from Facebook from Eddie Cox. He said, love the show, but you guys can drive a guy nuts sometimes. Your guest was dead on about Indiana Jones. Not sure if you're familiar with the Pinball Magazine, but this may interest you when you send me an article. And it's a Pinball Magazine article with Mark Ritchie, an interview. And it says, although you got the license, you did not get Harrison Ford for I.J. Mark Ritchie, no, no, he did not. When you license movies, typically that's what you are getting. Actors do not typically come with the package. You might have to make a separate deal to license any of the characters in the movies. Harrison Ford wanted nothing to do with this image on the game, and he was going to have to do something with it. It was going to cost an unreasonable amount of money. So we decided, Doug Watson and Mark Ritchie decided, we don't need Harrison Ford. We need Indiana Jones. We can get close and not have to worry about it, we reasoned. Doug Watson created an awesome portrait of Indiana Jones, not Harrison Ford. But when you look at it, sometimes you know it is definitely Indiana Jones. What? Okay. Mark Ritchie's own words. Yeah, okay. Nick, Kevin, when you look at it, IJ, when you look at that back glass, do you say, like, no, that's definitely not Harrison Ford? I've never once not thought that that is not Indiana Jones. I've never once thought that that looks weird. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Well, my take is I've heard that story, And so it's a likeness of Harrison Ford, but it's not Harrison Ford. Okay. One yes and one no. Great. The debate rages on. So does that mean if we have Star Wars, like that's not Harrison Ford on there. That's Han Solo. Is that your reasoning? Can you do that for any character? Well, it depends if, you know, if it's a painting of like a photograph of the person or if it's an actual photograph. Well, yeah, here's the deal. Yeah, it's the person. What is the Indiana Jones flyer? I don't know. I've never seen the Indiana Jones flyer. It's a photograph of Indiana Jones. A photograph. Are we talking about the flyer or are we talking about the pinball machine? The flyer with the pinball machine in it. So you need to tell me. Let me go again. We don't have the licensing. We can't use them on the game. It's a photo of Harrison Ford on the flyer. I know what you're talking about, right? Yes. So it's like we can't use it for the game, but for the flyer is okay. the flyer of the game oh yeah there he is that's definitely him on the flyer not him on the back class okay I give up it's not Harrison Ford it's Indiana Jones there you go I'm still saying it's Harrison Ford Mark Ritchie his own words can say it's not but Bruce is like yeah it's him you can just say it looks so much like him ridiculous Ridiculous. Well, so, back to the future, it's not Michael J. Fox, it's Marty McFly. He's on the game. But that doesn't look like Michael J. It doesn't look like either of them. No, no, it's like Marty McFly, the character. That's a poor rendition of Marty McFly. The Indiana Jones backlash is a good rendition of Harrison Ford. Exactly. Exactly. But it's not him. More mail. You should sell your game, Bruce. Nope. Get a fake. Yeah, yes. I have the only real Harrison Ford. I should say, I have the only real Harrison Ford. You should take a photograph and just tape it. That's it. Well, wait a minute. Now, on IJ4, the one that Stern made, it's a photograph. It's actually a cut from the movie. Yeah, it's a cut from the movie. It's when they, you know, before they knew how to do art at Stern. He picked the wrong game to be featured on. Yeah, yeah, that's a terrible game. Hey, Bruce, did you know that Pinball Shit has subscribed to us on YouTube? I saw that. That's in our mailbag. Yes, pinball shit. Congratulations, you guys. Thank you, pinball shit. A little jelly right now. You are jealous, aren't you? Very. What a great name. Okay. All right, I'll do the next one. Episode titles. This is from Jason in New Jersey. Bruce is close to my age. Maybe he remembers the run of Arnold Schwarzenegger movies in the 80s. Hmm. There's a lot of good names in that run, and he has huge... What? I'm trying to read this right. There's a lot of good names in the run, and he was huge back then in the movies, at the movies. I remember seeing coming attractions for Predator in a movie theater, and it was amazing to see them back then. Conan, Predator, Running Man, etc. I kind of like that one, too. Yeah? We're going to bookmark that one for next week. Bookmark that one, yeah. I think so. Because, I mean, how far back are you going to go? Are you going to go back to Hercules in New York? Anyone remember that? No? No. That was his first movie. Nobody. Well, it's a bad movie. Never saw it. Never saw it? He comes over, he's Hercules, and somehow there's time travel or something and he's in New York. That sounds kind of amazing, actually. Yep, and he goes around posing. Well, what's even more amazing is the original movie, he's dubbed. Right? Man. But now there's a version with the original sound, so you get to hear him in his awesome glory. It's bad. It's very bad. I'm going to have to watch that now. Yeah, I'm going to have to watch that too. He literally just, like, he arrives and just poses, like, throughout the movies. Like, poses a lot. Because, you know, he's Hercules. Okay, then we got one from Scott. Yep. Let's see. You're going to cry at the end of it. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, my inability to sell Flash, because I played it for, like, 30 minutes, and was like, I can't sell this now. He said the same thing happened to him with Firepower. He cleaned up the Firepower in anticipation of selling it, and he had a blast playing it, and he couldn't sell it. Let's see, he's making some more software stuff. Oh, I hear my, okay, not my Flash software modifications suggestion. So he has some Flash stuff put in there. Hopefully your ideas match mine so I have less work to do. Let's see. He has software modifications for Flash. Bonus ladder goes to 39K instead of 29K. Seven-digit scoring. Top lanes when lit score double. Let's see. IE lane two normally scores 2,000 when lit scores 4,000. Extra ball on eject pays 15K in addition to awarding extra ball. Fast react shot from left in lane scores 2X spinner for short period. Three bank lit arrow adds bonus step. Five bank lit roving arrows match three bank level. Thunder lightning tempest super flash, unless five bank level is five lit arrows. Wow, he makes it sound like a more complicated game. It almost sounds like a modern Stern or something. Yes. Film series. Oh, he's cheating. He just sent us a Wikipedia of film series with more than ten entries. So you could just go through and pick one. Yikes. That's Gary Stern and Joe Kaminkow on the Back to the Future flyer. And he actually did pass on a Nugent for $300 once. And an $800 Dragon Fist since he already had one. Speaking of Nugent, did you see that Jeff Teola's interviewed him for the Pinball Profile? Yes, he did. I have not listened to it yet. Oh, boy. He was Nugent. He was Nugent. I've heard him interviewed many times, and he was what you expect. And they talked about the pinball machine for maybe 20 seconds. 20 seconds. They had to make something so everyone can play with my balls. That was his comment. True quote. True quote. I like that Jeff D'Ela's posted that and all the pictures that he posted were of himself and none of Ted Nugent yes but he did post Ted in red that's right he did have one picture of oh it was the old picture of Ted yeah the one I posted playing it in the factory with Gary Starr standing next to him I wonder if Gary was looking at it I wonder if there's anything we can cut from this game i'm sorry sorry gary sorry if you notice the end of the scott's email you didn't even see it did you oh okay yeah go ahead article about mark Mike Kubin oh yes the designer we were mentioning he did um he did a bunch of kick-ass games at uh stern and we're like man you know and and he he also he worked on andromeda which if you saw that at the end of pinberg and he did cyclops Memory Lane. Yeah, Memory Lane. Sea Witch. Sea Witch. And it's like, man, this guy kicked ass. I wonder what happened because after game plan, he, like, disappears. It looks like, unfortunately, he did pass away. But he passed away in 2013. Yeah. But when he designed Memory Lane back in 78 and 77, Pinball, he was 20 and 21 years old. Yeah. So that's going to be pretty cool, growing up, getting your first big gig and designing pinballs at 20 or 21. Yeah. I wonder what happened. I mean, he was – I thought he was good. Yeah. I mean, do we like Sea Witch? Raise hands, anyone who likes Sea Witch. Yes. Oh, yeah. Okay. My hand's up. There you go. My hand's up. Yeah, he did a lot of cool games with a lot of totally different designs. He even did Warlock. Which is basically blackout. Yes. It just changed it to a spinner game. Which is better. Man, come on. Bring us up from that, Bruce. I feel depressed. So, show's coming up. We have the Saratoga show, the Saratoga pinball show, Upstate, baby. Which is going to be already done by the time people hear this. Oh, shit, that's right. How was the show, Ron? How was it? How was it? It was great. I brought the Flash, you know, and I wasn't going to sell it, but then some guy gave me crazy money for it, so it had to go. And he bought a Ghostbusters Pro with it. Yeah, I went over, and I realized that the Pro was the way to go, and it was the premium that was the issue. I've totally just done a 180, and I now have Ghostbusters back downstairs. There's some truth to that. Yeah, I'll agree with that, actually. Yeah, me too. Then I found a Dragon Fist while I was there. It was incredible. For $800, right? Yeah, and then Zach stole it. He bought it from before I got there. There you go. And then the Buffalo Pinball Open is coming up from the 18th to the 20th of this month, August. After that is the Cleveland Pinball Show. Cleveland, Ohio, from September 7th through the 10th in downtown Cleveland. Fun times in Cleveland today. Did you ever see the Cleveland video on YouTube? It's amazing. Everybody look it up. Pinball video or just look up? No, it's a fake tourism video. Oh, okay. It's amazing. So go to YouTube and look up tourism Cleveland. Yep, that'll get you to it. Okay. Anything else coming up in the shows? I don't think that's too much more. I think that's about it for now. Yeah, what the hell. Yep, and also the Rock Fantasy Summer Open was awesome. I loved hoisting the Hulk head after I won the tournament. It was great. And the side tournament you won too, right? Yeah, I won the side tournament. I can't remember what it was on, but I won it. It was great. Probably Sinbad again. He doesn't have Sinbad anymore. No, I won it on Cyclone. Yeah, that's it. Cyclone. Okay. Sorry. Can I just say that I appreciate the way Ron approaches his tournament play because I approach it very similarly. Like, how many points do you have? Where are you at in the same level? Like, I don't know. I just want to play the next game and win. You know? So we're very much of the same mindset. It's so much easier. Just all the strategy stuff. Just win. Just win, baby. Same with the rules. Same with the rules. It's just like, all right, give me something to do. Why do you think I play classics? Exactly. These rules, like, the Buffalo Open last year, people were trying to explain tag team multiball. I mean, I still couldn't get it. And then I did what I thought they told me to do, and it didn't start. Like, I did what you told me. I didn't get no tag team multiball. I give up. I'm right there with you. You guys want to plug away? You may plug away. Plug away. This is Kevin. Kevin. Me? I get to do it? All right. Buffalo Pinball Summer Open. I hype everything. August 18th to 20th. Beautiful Buffalo, New York. It's a Papa Circuit major. Also come out the Thursday before for the pre-Buffalo Pinball Summer Open three-strikes tournament. So it's at 5 p.m. Also at Pocketeer Billiards, 2444 Clinton Street in Buffalo. Steve Daniels, our friend, is running that one. Also, if you want, check us out on Twitch. We are at twitch.tv slash buffalopinball. Our main show, Brody, Even Pinball, is coming back on September 7th. We're coming back with a bang. We're going to be on the front page of Twitch. It's going to be a huge comeback. And we're really looking forward to the fall season of the show. In the meantime, we've been releasing some content on YouTube. So YouTube.com slash Buffalo Pinball as well. Yeah, let's type it up. When we do our monthly podcast, Brody, Even Talk Pinball, we do a review. And now Geeky Husband, Steven Haberman, if I got his last name correctly, He's been kind enough to edit our reviews out and make them unto themselves on YouTube. So you can check our awesome Star Wars video review. And then we just dropped a review of Bram Stoker's Dracula today. What are we going to get to play, you guys? That's a good question. I have not forgot about that. Yeah, I wanted to do it at Pinberg, but then Kevin had to go and make the playoffs and ruin everything. I'm sorry. I thought we were going to stream it. I thought that was the allure, right? Or no, it doesn't matter. We could play. I'd love to stream it either. Okay. I mean, if you just want to play, we could play at Pocketeer. No, we could stream. I like to stream. I like the stream idea. I like the stream idea. We've got to find a time, though, because logistically, Ron, you're four and a half hours from us. So we've got to find a time when you're in proximity and we can make it happen. Try more like five and a half. Five and a half. I'm further east now. So after you get past four, I mean, four to ten, what's the difference? Yeah. Six hours, if you're wondering. Is that the difference? Yes. Thanks for clarifying. Yeah, we got to figure something out. It's going to be a big deal, man. Got to hype it up. Yes, indeed. I'm ready. It sounds like fun. I would love that. We'll have to make the format up. You guys can make the rules, since I get picked on by Ron about my rules. Well, you have the Bruce rules that I don't understand. Great. We should do the team league rules. Oh, no. We'll play a doubles game. Then we'll play a singles round. Then we'll do split flipper and then relay race. No. Fuck no. That's a yes then. No, that's a fuck no. Bruce just told us we could make the rules and then we made the rules. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Ron, don't edit that out. Not that out. Kevin? Luckily, we can edit anything we want on this podcast. You're right. I'm leaving that in. Oh, fuck. Okay, on that note. Thank you, Nick. Thank you, Kevin. Thank you, guys. We'll be seeing you very soon. Very soon? Less than a week. Less than a week. Or is it less than a week? Well, for me, it is. I'm going to see them Thursday. Yeah, for me, it's a week and a day. Well, actually, by the time this airs, let me rephrase that. I'll be seeing you tomorrow. I'll alert Tim Hortons that you're coming, Bruce. Oh, God, make sure to make extra pots of coffee, and make sure there's plenty of chocolate ice cream for Ron. Yes, lots of chocolate ice cream. Plug it up, Bruce. Got to pay the bills that we don't have. Yes. www.pinballlifter.com. Get your lifters, tilters, helpers, mods. Get it all. Wheel Kits. Come check out the website. Don't forget pinball star Joe Newhart. We bought our dialed in from him. Check it out. He also is going to be taking deposits for Total Nuclear Annihilation and he's selling the new AFM Repros and he also sells Jersey Jack pinballs. Also, what's the last one we got there? Flip of Fidelity, Mike Pupo. Purchase his speakers for your auditory needs. He's also a Stern distributor. And he also sells CERN authorized mods. We can be reached at slamtillpodcast at gmail.com. Look for us on Facebook at Slam Till Podcast. Search for us on YouTube, Slam Till Podcast. That's just been episode 56, Robin Hood, Men in Tights. Tight tights. Yes. Say goodbye, Bruce. Goodbye, Chris Holland. We'll be right back. Oh my. Oh my. Oh my. Oh my. _(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_ --- *Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 71cfc0db-1d44-4a29-82e4-4188048661a8*