# Triple Drain Pinball Podcast Episode 50 - TPF, MGC and Travis is Old now? **Source:** The Pinball Network **Type:** video **Published:** 2024-04-16 **Duration:** 111m 42s **Beat:** Pinball **URL:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cNM9pLJHzY --- ## Analysis Triple Drain Podcast Episode 50 celebrates the milestone with discussion of the Texas Pinball Festival (TPF) and MGC (Midwest Gaming Classic). Hosts Travis, Joel, and Tom reflect on their experiences at these shows, community engagement, and dive into detailed game impressions starting with Elton John. Key themes include show atmosphere improvements, collector psychology around game purchasing and resale value fears, and gameplay analysis of recent releases. ### Key Claims - [HIGH] This is Triple Drain's 50th episode, roughly 100 hours of content across ~2 hours per episode — _Joel stating directly: '50 episodes roughly two hours an episode that's 100 hours of us talking'_ - [HIGH] Travis turned 40 years old and had a surprise party thrown by Monica — _Joel: 'Happy Birthday Travis Travis just turned 40' and Travis confirming: 'Monica actually threw me a surprise party I was not... oh no kidding I did not know about it'_ - [HIGH] Travis won a trivia prize (banner) at TPF by picking the correct answer about Barry Aler's last commercially released game — _Travis detailing the trivia mechanics and outcome: 'I was the only one that picked the other answer and guess what I was the only one that was right so I was pumped I won a banner'_ - [HIGH] Elton John has a solid flipper feel that is 'more towards where Stern is' rather than typical JJP design, with snappy flippers and solid shot flow — _Travis: 'it didn't feel like a jjp... the flippers didn't feel spongy it felt like it had solid flow it felt more towards where Stern is... the snappy feel to the flippers and the shots felt felt solid'_ - [HIGH] There is a pattern where people enjoy playing Elton John but are unwilling to purchase it despite positive feedback — _Travis: 'overwhelmingly people were really enjoying playing the game but... I would ask them well are you going to are you looking at getting one and it was just instantly no'_ - [HIGH] Many collectors are freezing their purchasing decisions due to resale value concerns rather than fun factor — _Joel: 'I've been noticing this a lot in the past several months... there's just a lot of people are basing their decision-making over whether they want to get a game today based off how much money they think they're going to lose'_ - [HIGH] TPF had fewer people but more machines, and better layout than previous years, creating a less crowded atmosphere — _Joel: 'I don't know I haven't seen official numbers but it definitely felt like there was less people there than last year and so just overall it felt less crowded' and 'more games less people better layout'_ - [HIGH] Barry Aler did not design Taxi (clarification Travis was repeatedly corrected on) — _Joel: 'multiple multiple people reminded Travis that Barry aler did not design taxi... eight people eight people have said this'_ ### Notable Quotes > "I'm a very young 40" > — **Travis**, N/A > _Self-deprecating joke about turning 40; sets tone for celebration episode_ > "it didn't feel like a jjp... it felt more towards where Stern is" > — **Travis**, N/A > _Major gameplay observation about Elton John's mechanical feel deviating from typical JJP design philosophy_ > "people are basing their decision-making over whether they want to get a game today based off how much money they think they're going to lose" > — **Joel**, N/A > _Core insight about collector psychology shift away from fun-first mentality to investment/resale value focus_ > "if you value money more than that like that's your priority and yeah of course you're going to view it through that prism" > — **Joel**, N/A > _Philosophical framing acknowledging different player motivations (fun vs. financial returns)_ > "Elton John is one of the games that I genuinely miss... my brother asked about the game like it's it's really really good" > — **Tom**, N/A > _Regret about selling/not owning Elton John despite recognizing game quality_ > "it's exclusively the pinball Enthusiast who consumes content that all of a sudden the fun equation is secondary to am I going to lose money on this or not" > — **Joel**, N/A > _Distinguishes content-consuming enthusiasts from casual players by their financial risk prioritization_ > "if that layout was Led Zeppelin oh yeah... that layout was lead Zeppelin it would be a much different story" > — **Travis and Joel**, N/A > _Acknowledgment that theme/IP matters enormously to purchase decisions; Elton John theme is polarizing_ > "the people that are buying it are happy with their purchase... it's pretty rare that somebody buys a game that decides to take that leap of faith and they're just like crushed by it" > — **Joel**, N/A > _Reassurance that actual buyers of recent JJP/Stern games (Jaws, Venom, Elton John) report satisfaction despite sales concerns_ ### Entities | Name | Type | Context | |------|------|---------| | Travis | person | Co-host of Triple Drain Pinball Podcast; turned 40 in this episode; competitive player; attended TPF | | Joel | person | Co-host of Triple Drain Pinball Podcast; attended TPF; did commentary for Wormhole pinball tournament | | Tom | person | Co-host of Triple Drain Pinball Podcast; attended MGC; collector who owns multiple LE games; local to Wisconsin area | | Triple Drain Pinball Podcast | organization | Pinball podcast reaching episode 50; ~100 hours of content; mentioned winning inaugural Pinball Awards podcasting category | | Texas Pinball Festival | event | Major pinball event; improved layout this year with more machines and fewer attendees; featured trivia night and arcade games | | Midwest Gaming Classic (MGC) | event | Gaming convention; Tom attended; mentioned as alternative show venue | | Ron Howlet | person | Pinball expert; featured on Pinball Chronicles; won multiple prizes at TPF trivia; followed by Joel for knowledge | | Barry Aler | person | Pinball designer; subject of TPF trivia question about last commercially released game (not Taxi); Travis repeatedly corrected about this | | Elton John | game | Jersey Jack Pinball release; $11,200+ LE pricing; praised for gameplay but polarizing theme; strong flipper feel comparable to Stern rather than typical JJP | | Jersey Jack Pinball (JJP) | company | Manufacturer; released Elton John; recent games (Jaws, Venom) have collectors happy with purchases despite sales concerns | | Stern Pinball | company | Major manufacturer; Elton John flipper feel compared to Stern design; large presence at Chicago Pinball Expo | | Spooky Pinball | company | Manufacturer; team present at TPF | | Barrels of Fun | company | Manufacturer; team present at TPF | | Multimorphic | company | Manufacturer; team present at TPF | | Dave Oelpi | person | Owner of Lumberjack Johnny's arcade in Appleton; placed JJP Collector's Edition Elton John at his venue | | Monica | person | Threw surprise birthday party for Travis | | Neil McCrae | person | Attended barbecue at Hard Eight with Travis, Joel, and others during TPF | | Brian Shephard | person | Attended Hard Eight barbecue with Joel, Travis, and Neil | | Jaws | game | Jersey Jack Pinball release; LE purchased by Tom; reported high satisfaction among buyers | | Venom | game | Stern Pinball release; slower sales but buyers report satisfaction with game | | Wormhole Pinball | game | Tournament featured at TPF; Joel and Travis provided commentary; became 'mini meme' per hosts | | Jamie | person | Associated with Wormhole Pinball; reached out to Joel/Travis for commentary | | Chicago Pinball Expo | event | Alternative major show to TPF; has more industry personnel; Travis prefers TPF but acknowledges more industry presence at Chicago | | Foo Fighters | game | Pinball machine (manufacturer unclear); Tom owns LE version; purchased with intent to keep long-term | ### Topics - **Primary:** Texas Pinball Festival (TPF) experience and atmosphere, Elton John game impressions and sales psychology, Collector mentality around game purchases and resale value - **Secondary:** Comparison between TPF and Chicago Pinball Expo, Podcast milestone celebration (Episode 50), Gameplay mechanics and flipper feel analysis, Pinball show attendance and industry representation - **Mentioned:** Theme/IP impact on game desirability ### Sentiment **Positive** (0.78) — Overall celebratory tone for Episode 50 milestone and positive reflections on TPF experience. Warm reception from community noted. However, balanced by concern about collector psychology and Elton John sales despite game quality. Mixed feelings on some game themes but appreciation for gameplay quality across recent releases. ### Signals - **[community_signal]** Triple Drain reached Episode 50 with expressed gratitude for listener support, patreon backing, and in-person fan interactions at shows (confidence: high) — Joel: 'to anybody that's listening thank you... it's incredibly humbling that people enjoy this conversation and um we really really appreciate it' - **[event_signal]** TPF 2024 showed improved layout, more machines, fewer attendees, and better overall vibe compared to previous years with less crowding and line waits (confidence: high) — Joel: 'definitely felt like there was less people there than last year... more games there all the games that you want to play were there... just really relaxed really nice' - **[market_signal]** Growing pattern where content-consuming pinball enthusiasts prioritize resale value and financial returns over fun factor when purchasing games, creating purchase paralysis (confidence: high) — Joel: 'I've been noticing this a lot in the past several months... there's just a lot of people are basing their decision-making over whether they want to get a game today based off how much money they think they're going to lose' - **[gameplay_signal]** Elton John exhibits flipper mechanics and shot flow closer to Stern design (snappy, solid) rather than typical JJP house style (spongy flippers) (confidence: high) — Travis: 'it didn't feel like a jjp... the flippers didn't feel spongy it felt like it had solid flow it felt more towards where Stern is... the snappy feel to the flippers' - **[product_concern]** Elton John encounters strong negative reception to theme choice among general players; 100% negative response when asked if people plan to purchase despite enjoying gameplay (confidence: high) — Travis: 'people were really enjoying playing the game but... I would ask them well are you going to are you looking at getting one and it was just instantly no' - **[content_signal]** Triple Drain hosts provided live commentary for Wormhole Pinball tournament at TPF, generating community recognition and 'mini meme' status (confidence: high) — Joel: 'we became a mini meme thanks to that as well... we became a mini meme thanks to that as well... It was entertaining Jamie I think is his name' - **[sentiment_shift]** Travis noted significant positive sentiment shift at TPF 2024 compared to previous years; people happy, no complaints, better layout and spacing (confidence: high) — Travis: 'everywhere you went people were happy to be there there wasn't any grumpy people there there weren't people complaining at all' - **[manufacturer_signal]** Despite sales concerns and collector hesitation, actual buyers of recent JJP/Stern releases (Elton John, Jaws, Venom) report high satisfaction with purchases (confidence: high) — Joel: 'the people that are buying it are happy with their purchase... it's pretty rare that somebody buys a game that decides to take that leap of faith and they're just like crushed by it' - **[licensing_signal]** Elton John theme is polarizing; hosts and community note game would have dramatically different sales trajectory if theme was Led Zeppelin or other more universally appealing IP (confidence: medium) — Travis/Joel exchange: 'if that layout was Led Zeppelin oh yeah... if it would have been this like of course... it would be a much different story' - **[venue_signal]** Dave Oelpi added JJP Collector's Edition Elton John machine at Lumberjack Johnny's arcade in Appleton, Wisconsin, expanding public play availability (confidence: high) — Joel: 'Dave oelpi the owner uh he put his uh collector's edition there too... really nice really nice game' --- ## Transcript [Music] the pinball network is online launching triple drain pinball podcast launching into episode what episode are we on we're on episode 50 Tom this is 50 why this is episode 50 holy cow this is episode 5 um first off Happy Birthday Travis Travis just turned 40 right 4 Z thank you a helix behind him yeah I'm it's just like my regular birthday nobody's here it's it's good it's good welcome to the club did you blow up all those Balloons with your hot air what I did not no so Monica actually threw me a h surprise party I was not oh no kidding I did not know about it CU that what made it a surprise yeah some pinball people showed up it was fun we had drinks and yeah one of my neighbors brought this whatever rtion that is I I don't even know what it is for explaining what a surprise is Travis as the as the person that's 40 now in this I think my facial hair is finally going to come in eventually I'm pretty stoked about that and uh yeah I'm glad to be on the good side with Tom now on this so I don't know about that right now yeah what do you mean facial hair shows up when you turn 40 I was told this or like the past 25 years I've been told this or 14 you know one or the other just the hair on your head starts falling off too so maybe that's just going Mig it's going to migrate down for your I've got enough Native American blood in me I think I'm fine it'll be good it'll be it'll be fine you'll be fine oh man uh Tom you good you ready to go for this I think so okay Tom sounds fired up to be honest with you he start he started hot on this got a lot of hot topics hot taste and just to make sure because last time we did this Tom and we started off like super hot Joel forgot the press record so recording we are recording but I haven't hit the intro song yet so the people that always skip like 60 seconds ahead are going to hear us talking be like oh hav't done it yet still talking my God imagine I'm doing it now we're three guys who like to talk in all so we came up with a class our name CL call triple triple trip Tri trip trip triple triple dra triple dra oh man I'm I'm debating how much of that I'm going to edit out you know should I just leave it in and R song none of it this is the 50th episode It's A Reason celebrate 50 episodes roughly Travis has balloons roughly I didn't think I'd be Joel's friend for that long well you know neither did anybody else hasn't started yet Travis so you know that's um no so uh 50 episodes roughly two hours an episode that's 100 hours of us talking and um to anybody that's listening thank you I'm I'm sorry that this is how you're spending your time but we do appreciate it um we have a lot of fun with this and uh you know hopefully we can have another 50 more because this is uh it's just fun it's just fun to come together and talk um but yeah we got a we got a decent amount to cover um we uh we the last thing that we recorded was the the the intro or like the prep episode for Texas not Texas Texas pinball Festival I keep mixing Texas pinball festival and Texas Chainsaw Massacre which we're gonna talk about I mean they're kind of the same thing I yes clearly the exact same thing but we went to um we went to tpf I say we as in Travis and I were both there and then I know Tom went to uh mgc so he was at he was at a show recently so just quick blank and statement to anybody and everybody that came up to us and said hey you know thank you thank you for saying hi it was awesome meeting so many cool fans um to see Triple drain merch to you know to hear people that like the podcast that listen to the podcast um it's incredibly humbling that that that people enjoy this conversation and um we really really appreciate it and um yeah thanks for all the support all the support on patreon all the support of just yeah people saying hi shook our hand gave us hug all that stuff really really appreciate it um also um multiple multiple people reminded Travis that Barry aler did not design taxi and I am so grateful for that uh Travis Travis got there a day before I did and he just started texting us every time he's like eight people eight people have said this in within you know it's so great um and I definitely heard the the drop dropping the uh dropping the groundhog you know it's just uh it it brought me pure joy that um we recorded that episode when we did because it basically guaranteed Travis getting heckled for like the next it was great didn't you love it Travis 72 hours straight I mean it's nothing new it's true it's it's nothing new and it's deserved that's really what you a double zero in a finals of a major championship I mean you stream to thousands of people no hey gone over this we' we've gone over yeah yeah I felt bad forer felt bad for Jason Allen obviously needs all the help he can get so yeah I just figured just let the ball drain just establish dominance yeah you only need two balls apparently yeah it didn't work I lost Joel so yeah you guys did you guys did a great job announcing on the uh the Wormhole pinball oh yeah yeah we became a mini meme thanks to that as well y that was uh that was was a good time uh entertaining Jamie I think is his name Jamie at Wormhole he had reached out and said hey would you guys be interested in in commentating and we yeah we were like yeah let's give it a shot like I love to talk yeah it was great well I was in the middle of doing uh what was it the trivia so naturally I was roughly like I don't know three or four whiskies into the night and Joel's like hey do you want to do pinball commentary and I was like why not do it yeah Joel was all in because he Tri at the very beginning somehow you want ban or something yeah so at tpf yeah I'm real smart um no I'm smart because I made he followed Ron howlet the whole entire time and then he broke away at the end he's like I'm going to take a chance yep so at tpf they do this trivia night where they get a whole bunch of stuff so t-shirts banners everything all the different manufacturers give away a bunch of stuff and um they have these trivia questions and the way that they do it is there's always there's it's either going to be one of two answers and so there's a whole crowd if you want answer a you go to this side answer B to that side and I told I told Ron howlet I told everybody I was like I am following Ron howlet this guy knows his stuff he's the only smart part of pinball Chronicles he actually knows history so if you're gonna follow somebody follow Ron howlet and so I was I was following Ron howlet and we got down to I think we got down to like six people and they were about to just give out prizes to the six people but they're like n i do one more question and so I don't remember the exact question I think it was something like what was Barry Al's last commercially released game does that ring a bell it was and it was between junkyard and not taxi I'll tell you that right now not taxi I forget what the other one was but all six people including myself picked question a so the problem what happened was answer a answer a yes what had happened the round before was it got down to the same thing it was like six or five or six people everybody picked one answer and they were all wrong they were all wrong and I remembered that so I was like we're all on this Ron seems skeptical we're all kind of talking amongst ourselves you know is it this or this well it depends on if they're gonna go with this or that so we're all standing there and last minute I jumped over to the other side so I was the one person that picked the other answer and guess what I was the only one that was right so I was pumped I won a banner and if you win a banner you're not allowed to play anymore so I was done so I won a banner and and and walked away uh felt real real good but good good news is Ron howlet won multiple prizes throughout the night so if you go to tpf find Ron howlet and just follow him that guy knows his stuff but um yeah it was great it was great it was great doing commentary um for um the tournament Travis didn't play in the tournament this year so tpf for you was a a completely different experience right than previous tournament oh yeah no it was it was fun I got to get heckled I got to walk around talk to people got to actually eat barbecue which was nice down there Texas barbecue is fantastic oh yeah we went to this one place what was it hard eight Hard Eight that's the one I said you got to go to that's the one Brian Shephard took Neil and I to yeah hard yeah it was fantastic I definitely recomend that was awesome what' you say Travis sorry no I was saying I I would definitely go to that that was aw it was excellent yeah yeah don't even go for the pinball anymore just go for the barbecue when you go to a Barb barbecue place in Texas you have to go you have to wait in the line you have to go up to the counter and say I want a half pound of that I want that I want that it's not like a sit down no you know and they bring it to you no all all the meats out on display yeah all the meats out on display and you're just give me a little bit of this and that and they weigh it and then they pay you um my only complaint is pay you too pay them I got to go to this place my only complaint is you know while I'm waiting for my food I was looking around and I'm like man if I had a pinball machine to play right now that's really what I just feel like the barbecue restaurant needed needs a pinball machine um I don't know what theme necessarily that's what Joel did Joel was getting his meat and everything he's like do you guys have any barbecue challenge here that I could play and that yeah that's that's how Joel sounds in Texas legi exactly ches accent it was a whole deal like Neil McCrae was there I think Bob was there like it was a whole deal it great time just throwing us off no it was a great place like it's if you get a chance to go to tpf just in general just the atmosphere is awesome because of that because you get to see a lot of friends you get to play a lot of pinball if you if you're into tournaments you get to play tournaments if you're not into that there's all this other stuff to do yeah like what is it like a a big smoke for cigars you got arcade games that are there you got vendors that are there you got plenty of food to go eat and this year I act I enjoyed this year so much more than previous years for a variety of reasons not just like not playing the tournament like I wasn't stuck there the whole time but I don't know just the vibe at tpf was just completely different than previous years I I don't know why that is exactly it's cuz people aren't fighting over tppy ORS yeah it's well it it could have been that I don't know it was just it was like everywhere you went people were happy to be there there wasn't any grumpy people there there weren't people complaining at all besides I don't know maybe maybe my son's because I wasn't playing cuphead well enough with them but outside of that it's yeah they had a cuphead arcade there I kept dying it's like yeah it's a video game that's very hard to play0 yeah exactly yeah my hand eye coordination does not apply to that pinball yes but but no everything else it was just I don't know it was fun and I tried to make it a point to go to different seminars to talk to as many people as I could I know I didn't get to talk to everybody but I I don't know it was just a different vibe and the lines weren't super long either no so it felt like that there was less people there but more pinball machines were there so they had pinball machines even out in the hall this time and that just made it just so much better even though Joel and I got kicked off a machine day one still after that I got over that and it was just so much better well there was Mach did they know who you were no no we to them Travis was a person without a wristband that's all that's all he was to them um no it was awesome uh you know some of the other podcasters have talked about this they changed the layout of the room and um I think I don't know I haven't seen official numbers but it definitely felt like there was less people there than last year and so just overall it felt less crowded so um you know I remember two years ago two years ago when Pulp Fiction was released that was the thing it was like um the the line for that you would wait in that forever or that's when Godfather was released so it's like a lot of people waiting in line for Godfather a lot of people they had like one weird owl one or two so a lot of people waiting in line for Weird Al and then a lot of people waiting in line for p fiction and pul fiction is a rather brutal game so you get up there and play and it's just like I just remember that it felt crowded it felt tight not this it's felt just the layout it seemed like there were more games there all the games that you want to play were there um and maybe it was a combination of more games less people better layout but it was just really awesome it was really relaxed really nice I would say this I've said this before if if you love this Hobby and you if there's any chance you can go to a pinball show I would prioritize either Chicago pinball festival or Texas pinball Festival Chicago pinball Expo or Texas pinball Festival those I've been to both they are both fantastic um and it's the best way to meet people there's a lot of people from the industry there um so you know a bunch of people from jjp as well as Stern all the spooky guys were there all the barrels with fun guys were there multimorphic team was there um it was great it was great but now which one do you like better what between the two shows yeah let's get you off the fence I'm I'll say tpf I've been to both I thoroughly enjoy tpf much better than Expo not that EXP it's just the of tpf I just like it a lot better tpf it's warm it's warm except for it rain the whole time we're there but it's warmer down there there's really good places to walk and eat food um so it's just the location is better I am I do like Chicago though because I can drive I can drive there I'm there um and there's more industry people at Chicago because it's Chicago but um no it was great it was really really good didn't you just name off Everybody though pretty much that was there at TP but like Stern brings like every Stern employee to Chicago it's you know there was a handful of them there at um was was Keith there Keith was not because it was Keith's birthday so happy birthday Keith was Raymond there Ray was not because he's a bum you just said everybody was there no I said a handful of people were at Texas no he's talking about Chicago talking about Expo oh Chicago yes everyone was there everybody was there yes Texas I ran into um was therewi was there this isn't even about tpf and Expo anymore this is about you sucking up to stern that's that's why I feel like we kind of beard off anybody can look and see oh these people are there Tom where do we exit off here to the aing portion that's not what I said I I wasn't like hey I got to hang out with my friends oh by their name by the way their names are George G no that's not what I was doing that I did not what George dropping it all gotcha I Tom said who was there so I was listing the names of who was there that's not name dropping that's answering a question um so let's actually go through the games we we did this last time but it's like let's actually give our first impressions here um and we'll start with uh Elton John why not I I know I've streamed Elton John I've played the heck out of it um Travis actually had a chance to put some time on Elton John typically when I looked for where's Travis I found you a lot on Elton John um if you guys want to share that Tom why have you not bought an Elon John yet you you you like buying games um it's just mainly the theme like I like Elton John music don't get me wrong yeah um but it theme and price I mean they their price kind of High um you know don't look at the L's behind me uh I but I can also go down the street and play one because there's one at Lumberjack Johnny's in Appleton okay so and he uh Dave oepi the owner uh he put his uh collector's edition there too oh wow so uh really nice really nice game uh I think the game is amazing like it shoots well it's great it's probably the best Jersey Jack pinball game in my opinion uh but uh yeah I it's just the theme it the theme doesn't like totally grab me but if I was a huge Elton John fan I would have one in my house right now all yep that makes a lot of sense um Travis why'd you keep playing it all the time at tpf it was just it was fun to play when it comes to the theme I'll be honest I don't care for the theme at all I I know some Elton John songs but seeing how I'm a young 40 a very young 40 I I don't know too many I I didn't grow up on Elton John basically so you know but the pen shot great yeah I I thoroughly enjoyed that and I think I was just surprised that it and so here's the thing and we've talked about this back and forth and this is either going to sound like a disc or it's going to sound like a great thing I don't know but it didn't feel like a jjp that makes sense oh wow sick burn bro right well I'm you know there's somebody out there like oh but what what I'm getting at ISE with that you're like the flippers didn't feel spongy it it felt like it had solid flow it felt more towards where Stern is right and it matched what Stern does in a lot of spots and that's not to say like Godfather or Wonka or something like that didn't it just had the snappy feel to the flippers and the shots felt felt solid there was a couple of really cool shots there too especially whenever the ball got launched and you saw it go around I guess the Habit Trail or whatever you want to call it just yeah there's some just some cool shots there so you know those parts were cool to me the sound package it sounded a lot better in person than what I was expecting cuz it's just like with Toy Story right just kind of sound like a slot machine with Toy Story 4 I didn't really get that feeling as much with this and I don't know why that is maybe because it just doesn't have those types of sounds I don't know but either way the game was just fun to shoot uh I didn't really know the rules or anything I wasn't really paying attention to the rules I just knew well if I put the ball here enough multiball start there hit this enough something will happen there but I was just completely focused on just the experience the shots and watching other people and asking other people hey what do you think because there's I mean overwhelmingly people were really enjoying playing the game but the key part was is I would ask them well are you going to are you looking at getting one and it was just instantly no no no so it's like it's kind of weird and I don't know if that's I didn't dig any further I don't know if that's pricing I don't know if it's theme but but it's just one of those weird penss to where people are really enjoying it but they don't seem like they're wanting to adopt it yeah I I I don't know I don't know why that is I I think it's price I honestly do well Price Plus you look at pretty much the last the last few jjp games you buy them you buy them at that high price but they don't stay at that price I mean if you go to resell that game it's just I feel like it's just like a industry supply and demand too if not a lot of people are buying look at Pirates I mean Pirates goes for crazy money yeah it's it's so pinball yeah the pinball enthusiasts there everybody's just in this weird spot and I've been noticing this a lot in the past several months and we've talked about this too off the podcast and everything that there's just a lot of people are basing their decision-making over whether they want to get a game today based off how much money they think they're going to lose yeah right and so it's kind of like it's this weird spot because there's a lot of people out there that don't consume pinball content that don't do that at all they just want to buy a game because they're like oh Pinball's fun I have disposable income I want to play the game I'm G to get the game I'm going to play it whereas I've noticed it's just it's exclusively the pinball Enthusiast who consumes content that all of a sudden the fun equation is secondary to am I going to lose money on this or not it's almost like that's the game they're playing instead of the actual game of just playing pinball you know and I get it if that's how somebody wants to approach it right and that's all they know it is what it is but at the same time I feel like there's a lot of people out there that are missing out on unique opportunities to play a game over the fear of dropping what two three four $5,000 which is a lot of money don't get me wrong that's a valid fear yeah don't get me wrong but yeah that's if you plan on selling it mhm right so it's just kind of like I don't know if you budget correctly and you're approaching it well what's my fun Factor going to be like why not go for I just feel like there's so many people get Frozen right they they freeze themselves out from even buying a game from playing a game from even thinking about the game and then they want to wait several months down the road but you know what happens they're waiting for some magical game to come out and then when it does or doesn't come out they're still frozen and then they're still not buying a used game anyways that's the weirdest part because otherwise we'd be seeing these games just going through the paces and being sold left and right and we're not really seeing that and that's the Curious part about Elton John I'm sure it'll happen eventually but from the people that I am aware of that have bought the game they're all extremely happy oh yeah with their purchase you know it's the same way with jaws everybody's extremely happy with purchase and the funny part is it's the same thing with Venom obviously Sals weren't quite where Stern or anybody else wanted them but the people that are buying it are happy with their purchase overall it's pretty rare that somebody buys a game that decides to take that leap of faith and they're just like crushed by it they're just so pissed off that they bought that game and they want nothing to do with it not saying it doesn't happen yeah but it's rare I think it's I think it's clear that if you are uh if you're an Elton John fan and you're a pinball fan like especially if you're a DieHard Elton John fan you bought the game you're you love the game but it's I think for many years people were willing to just I'll buy a game worst case I sell it and I get my money back or I lose a little bit of money I mean there was a lot of people especially when demand or the supply was down they would buy almost every new release every Stern game just like whatever I'll buy it I'll put some games on it and I'll sell it it's there was no it it wasn't a worry but um Elton John I think it's there's a lot of people in this hobby that are like I'm not an Elton John fan but boy does that game look fun but not fun enough for me to risk losing a $2,000 like investment because they've already made it out in their head where it's a theme that I don't want to own so it's not going to be a keeper I'm not going to be tempted to keep it so if I buy it it's just going to be for a period of time before I want to sell it and that's not no they're just not taking that chance but honestly I've said it before Elton John is one of the games that I genuinely miss I miss having my kids miss me having it um my brother asked about the game like it's it's really really good and I and I bet there are people that bought the game with the intent of yeah I'll own it six months maybe and then turn on to the next one and I don't know if they're selling I haven't really seen him on the used Market it just seems like a lot of people are you never know and what you just said is completely valid if you are not a huge fan of a theme yeah it's probably not the smartest thing to be plopping down thousands of dollars for a product unless you absolutely know what type of layouts you like and what type of gameplay you like and that's how I I'm able to judge a lot of games that I bring in is it's not just the theme but if I feel like I'm going to have fun to a certain extent with what the layout is how the rules are so on and so forth then yeah I'm going to think about getting that game and everybody's going to buy for different reasons I I just think if you are exclusively in this hobby because you want to be able to buy a game not lose any money or buy a game just to flip it make a profit in the future you're going to be in for a rough time because that's not where the industry is at and that's not where it's going to be for a very very very long time because there's so many companies coming out games yeah Supply right has met demand for the most part Stern is cranking out games so like you're going to just you're basically just making yourself set on the sideline true so I what what I would encourage people is if you have a theme that you want like get the game yeah enjoy the game like why not Tom let me ask you this cuz you you buy a lot of Le's but like when you bought Foo Fighters like Foo Fighters is a big band like you're a big fan of that so when you bought the Le it was a I I have full intention of owning this game for a long time same thing with jaws bought Jaws Le I I have plans on owning this for a long time but you bought a originally you bought a bond Pro so like clearly when you bought the bond Pro it wasn't it wasn't with the mentality of I'm going to own this a long time you bought it for what reasons yeah I well mainly just to play it you know being a pinball fan I was like well you know I'm going to give this game a chance but I immediately put it on Route too so it's not like I had it in my house where I could you know play it every night if I wanted to you know I had to I'd have to drive to a location to play it but uh the bond and it was mainly because of the Bond theme it just not a uh you know it I I wasn't into watching Bond movies growing up you know uh I watched a few of them but it just wasn't something that like really grabbed me uh but now I own a bond premium because I like I like the game playay and stuff so you know yeah but I think it's interesting you had him in ality buying that Pro of like I'm going to basically take a chance I'm going to take a chance on this um but yet it's easy to do that with a pro or Pro pricing but you're saying it's you can't just you're not going to take a chance on a $112,000 Elton John that's what I'm hearing yeah pretty much yeah well I'm I'm hearing it from a lot of people is really what it comes down to I mean I have a local collector friend who he flips games all the time but it's just like there's something about that that threshold of like a $112,000 investment but what's interesting is you know I'll see him he'll buy two Pros you know without second guessing it and that's the same amount of money but yet like and it's just a mental thing of like two games is a lot easier to digest to flip those than one game that's I don't know it's just it it just comes down to threshold is all it is it comes down to threshold and it comes down to you as the end consumer like whether it's you Joel you Tom or you The Listener or you the viewer out there it just comes down to what do you value and if you value playing pinball you value fun if you value bringing something in for your family to play for you to play you'll figure out how to make it work if it fits within your budget now if you value money more than that like that's your priority and yeah of course you're going to view it through that prism that I don't want to lose x amount of money right you know and it's a unique thing there's not too many other things in life outside of I don't know maybe our mortgage or something that we will spend an obscene amount of money on something with hopes that we're going to get a return back on it is something that we will actively use in our daily life and for whatever re like pinball has been just brought into that and that's fine it's just there's a lot of people out there though that are out there that enjoy pinball for what it is it's a game that's meant to be played and it's meant to be enjoyed and that's where their priority and their focus is like neither one's wrong it's just people just view it through different ways that's perfectly valid from both sides yeah well we've got a lot yeah we got a lot more games to go through um but I know I agree like it's weird Elton John I just feel like that that game has done has genuinely done everything right everything right except for it's just a very polarizing theme and not that people love or hate the theme it's just I think people love the theme or they like it but not enough and it's just it's just tough let's face facts if that layout was Led Zeppelin oh yeah or yeah that's fair I mean we'll just say the quiet part out loud that's what everybody's thinking that layout was lead Zeppelin it would be a much different story but there is no staircase to in the game Travis you know yeah of course you need that yeah they they replace piano just a guy walking upstairs that's all that's just like I said it go it's different companies it's different bombs it's different strategies it's different lens or like allowing stuff approving stuff so yeah this is just like a pie a sky thing of saying oh yeah if it would have been this like of course yeah if they would have put $50,000 worth of R&D into just one machine and sold it for 5,000 they would probably sell like a million of them but they wouldn't make anything back so yeah it's just it's a unique industry but yeah so um what is what is it like Jersey Jack are we giving two thumbs up I think they're doing I I like I I don't know a single person that has played I don't know any other podcast I don't know anybody that's played the game and had anything negative to say the Art's great the sounds great the I don't there's nothing negative about the game it's just at the end of the day zelton johnice yeah price and yep that's that's fair that's valid think game if it was priced at a Stern premium yeah we we wouldn't be having this conversation right that's true if it was would that game be able to be piced at that that's the question like would it still look like it does great question not well what was what was a um what was a guns and& roses not standard but the nor Le what was that think it was about 8 Grand when it first came out and then they was a lot of inflation too though that was a lot of inflation too that was a whole other lifetime I just think I'm pretty confident if somebody sold a used Elton John for under 10 grand it would on pinside for one minute it'd be gone no doubt because the demand is there I actually think people want the game but people just are frozen at $112,000 new in box they're just Frozen they're waiting they're waiting for used and this may be one of those games in five years that are CL people are clamoring for them because not a ton of you know I don't know so here's a great question first world problem yeah exactly Tom what would a standard I know we got to get to other games but what would a standard look like for Elton John cuz we know that a standard was out for guns and roses and there's a reason why they don't do standards anymore yeah I think he would I think you'd have to take all the toys out like yeah you You' not have no moving Elton it would be just the LEDs on the piano would the side just be a Target you think I think you could leave the the layout I think you could leave the layout I think just like the crocodile Bops up and down that could be a static thing there's a rock I'm going to lean into this joke Joel just totally no sold it it's an awesome joke Tom got it try try it again maybe the second attempt will be better okay I'll try sorry I I probably studied stuttered over my one second hang on yeah this is let me edit just find the script that you wrote for the jokes because I didn't write this one yeah okay try it again they should probably just take the side ramp and just put a Target there instead oh yeah like what they did in lead Zeppelin God sh that didn't landed all damn it weog on that one Travis oh man um I like the game I'll just I'll end it there I like the game yeah it's it's fun to play like it it says something if you don't like the theme but you keep coming back to play the game yeah absolutely yeah I'm looking forward to playing it more honestly um but uh transition Jaws Jaws Tom you've had your Le a while now has have your overall thoughts on Jaws changed at all better it's a great game okay um solid review yep B+ I don't know you yeah um two thumbs up uh A+ okay I um I played the premium I played the premium at um Texas I had not played the premium before um for whatever reason I felt like hitting that upper play field was harder it doesn't make any sense because the wave ramp is the same wave ramp I think it is just uh it is a more challenging shot like because you have to hit it clean but um but if I loved it man I love that that upper play field is unlike any other upper play field I've played because it's so fast um you got to know what you're want to do on the upper Playfield before you hit the shot because otherwise it's just it's off it's off the upper play field it's just so much better having the shark come out of a play field and Bash it that that is really NE that captive ball over and over again that is really neat um you know just cuz you mentioned the shark the Shar eater mod the guy has released a premium version of that mod I know I had some strong takes some strong views on that mod yes there's a premium version of it of it well okay I mean I will give the guy props what he's done from a mechanical engineering standpoint is is really impressive the guy what he's done um but with that said now that I've played the complete game as in Ellen's full vision of the game the the premium I have zero complaints with the way the shark is I don't I don't it no bit of me feels that that shark needs to eat the ball no bit of me um I air quotes Joel said Joel Joel approved stay yes um I just think honestly if the shark ate the ball it would have to be for a final wizard mode moment I don't want that every single time it would have to be a big moment and on a side note I have a Star Wars right now that I've been borrowing and it's a premium blowing up the Death Star is a really cool moment but that's the only time in the game where the Death Star Mech opens up the only time and so I've streamed that game twice I've played it for roughly four plus hours I've seen that Mech open up one time one time and that to me it's just I don't I just I'm not it's a waste of money to to invest in a Mech that rarely people are going to see but Jaws I'm glad the I'm glad the shark doesn't eat the ball every every single time and and if it was a Mech that only happens in one mode it would be a waste of a Mech I'm glad that Keith Elwin chose to use the bomb the the money in other places so I do feel I had a blast with the pro when I was streaming it I really enjoyed playing the premium I think Zach has intention of getting me a premium at some point to stream hopefully when there's a next you know next major update kind of thing so I'm really looking forward to playing that game more um Travis I know you've played the heck out of it because the pinball company has made multiple tutorial videos on it um do you have any hot takes on like longevity of this a lot of people are where's Jaws gonna fall in the realm of lwin games um you know so when it comes to design and everything it's I probably put it just in the middle of the pack with everything and that's not a bad thing it's just Godzilla is is excellent Jurassic Park is excellent and I honestly feel like Jaws is excellent as well so I would put it I personally like it a little bit better than Avengers and I loved Avengers I'm a huge fan of all that but there's just something about the upper Playfield that really brings it all together and just seeing that shot seeing everything whip around so for me that's just a lot of fun and I think too it's as the code matures more I'm curious to see where that goes exactly because I feel like there's a lot of other things in this game that we haven't quite scch to surface with yeah in terms of figing out figuring out whether scoring or whether we're figuring out the fish finder targets a little bit more since they just now added a wizard mode associated with that so yeah it's just taking time to wait for it but I mean overall I've got no complaints I think it's it's been selling great for us I mean it's it's hard to keep them in stock just a lot of people just enjoy the game overall and I think people are hearing about it more and more so it's I think it's going to be around for a pretty pretty significant time more than what people realize and and even if people are trying to compare it to Godzilla and Jurassic Park it's like guys it's those are two all-time Banger pins yeah you know compared to everything else so if this game's getting compared to those that's a good thing you know it's not like we're comparing it to something that might be like the 200th best pen ever made or something like that so no I'm happy with it overall I think I think it's really good and yeah I think people people will be pleased to keep playing it for a long time the premium is great if you have the Le I'm super jealous yeah like what Tom has behind them but yeah you can't go wrong with the premium at all yeah um real quick I do I I think this is real but um uh from the three of us I think this is real from the three of us trip train um hi George Gomez thank you for listening to our podcast and the reason I say that is because apparently I was talking to Elizabeth gesi she works for stern she said after our last episode of of triple drain when Travis complained about the ball eating the shark eating his ball and the ball getting stuck under the Playfield she's like I think George might listen to your podcast because 24 hours after your podcast came out all of a sudden there was like a full group meeting on like you need to fix this and they did they they fixed it so if if Gomez happens to listen to this podcast then thanks thanks for listening but apparently I I don't know I don't know I think she's giving can you credit Travis for uh for uh pushing up that on the priority table so look at I'm will to bet they probably already thought about it you know I'm going to give them I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt that they know what they're doing there that that could be valid that could be valid I was trying to give you something but you know whatever if you I'm an idiot Joel you know this okay let's let me quote let me clip that real quick and uh no um well cool okay Jaws still a great game really looking forward to playing it more um Labyrinth I know I've played the heck out of the game Travis had you you had played Labyrinth at xar remember that played it for a little while yeah and that's the last game you beat me on so I still remember that yep I need sure that did not happen again oh he beat you too I had the GC on that game for or I don't know it was it was there maybe it was GC but it was it was good um Tom you you had played it at Expo or you played it at mgc or what uh I I did not play it at mgc uh I played it at Expo uh little bit and then uh there is one at Lumberjack Johnny's I I haven't really played it that much be honest no from a routing standpoint is has it done well on Route has it held up well on Route do you know any information like that from my understanding it has not held up super well on Route okay uh typically they've been taking it out of some tournaments that we had so um it's just had some small issues okay interesting yeah it's nothing uh I don't think anything like extravagant but uh they they have um almost the entire barrels of fun team was there it was a joy talking to them they had a seminar and my one take away with them as a company is everybody that works there genuinely seems to love their job and it just seems like they're a very passionate organization they're working hard on the next few games but they're also working really hard to get the current games out and um it seems like customer service has been great responsiveness has been great so I know there's a lot of people waiting on their Labyrinth you know enjoy it wait you know I think I think you'll get the game and I I don't know I'm excited for you I I it it had lines the whole time um I did have an opportunity when I was there that had the original Whitewood there and to play a Whitewood it was cool to see you just don't realize how much art in inserts really do affect the game um in a really positive way but um it was just it was cool it was really cool and the new topper the Topper's awesome there's um Marc Silk did all the voices for the Goblins in the topper and apparently he he filmed I think it was like 60 something scenes so depending on what's going on in the game they react and talk and talk at you and React to what you're doing so if you have the game get the topper the topper really was really really neat Carl over at I pinball is streaming theck out of it right now and um he's doing a really good job showing off the game so still a great game um I don't know Tom you gonna buy one or no you're still not uh again it's just not a theme I'm really interested in okay so but I might buy the next barrels a fun game you never know true and that's my brother keeps telling me he he misses he misses Labyrinth a lot and um I'm not I'm not planning on buy one just cuz once get not a theme I I crave but it was it was a really good game game um but speaking of games have you guys seen the movie by chance yes I have not is it any good after the first 30 minutes you should finish it it's it's weird it's just a weird movie um so why should I finish it because saying it's weird that's start to make a little more sense you can Val you would you things appreciate David Bowie bulge is in the movie I'm going to figure that part out that's what you're saying you know they don't go into detail on why said things are going to make sense so that's that was my only question there there's some conclusion to it I don't know I whatever waste your time how you want to you know if you if you want to watch uh he I'll tell I'll tell my wife hey we got to watch Labyrinth as Joel said there's going to be a conclusion to DAV bulge on the last half movie 15th time or whatever Moneyball I don't I just saw baseball I'm in the middle of watching Mission Impossible that's what I'm trying to watch right now you know saw online and they're like Mission possible 99 it sounds like these missions are actually pretty possible at this point I just thought that was I wonder if that would be a good theme for pinball Mission Impossible no we got to do Fast and Furious where they end up on the moon or something like that we already had cars we got cars in uh we never landed on the moon Travis um speaking of games that we are going to buy um Travis is going to buy a P3 he's going to buy a multimorphic game because because Monica loves Princess Bride he's going to do that he he already lost the love and respect of his children he doesn't want to lose the love and respect of his wife so she wants a Princess Bride I think it's happening we've made it close to 20 years I'm over the hump I don't have to do [ __ ] Joel so but she did love the game she did love the game yes um yeah talk about the game Travis you blew it up I I had a chance I played it with Dennis and Tony from a collective Gamers podcast we stood in and watched you play um and you blew it up Colin was there explaining the rules um yeah yeah yeah have a pinball caddy yeah no it was it was fun overall I mean it's so you know we've talked about the P3 platform several times on this show and I'm sure for those that have been with us for a couple years everybody remembers our show from a couple years ago in which Tom and I caught some arrows on some of our comments and Joel did his usual sit on the fence thing so he he came through unscathed but you know our our big complaint has always been that everything's in the back third of the Playfield right and I know I've said this a bunch of times I feel like it's perfectly valid to say that so it is what it is but I entered this game knowing that okay that's what it's going to be and for what it was I think that they did the best that they possibly could with this theme considering what the platform allows them to do yeah if that makes sense so I I feel like the rules were very well integrated into it with what Colin has done it made a lot of sense I didn't feel lost while playing the game I think if you are a if you're I don't know how to word this if you're an average player I think you're going to enjoy the game a lot because the shots are wide open yeah it it didn't feel like the shots were overly difficult to do and of course that obviously is most by design that was the intention of it the Cliff's Mech was actually pretty cool though I did like that how the ball got the magnetizer or whatever went up and you got to see it do its thing that was pretty cool it just the only true downside that I could really think of that in the middle of playing I was like okay it didn't feel like I needed to use this at all was the upper flippers because I found myself it just felt so strange having to do two separate sets of flippers with that that I ultimately just buil out and I barely even Ed my flippers but I did like how the platform allowed you during some of the scenes one of the rules is to use the same side with your with one hand the sword fighting mode yeah yeah that was interesting and obviously it's been done before I think American pinball did it with October Fest yeah so I mean it's it's not like this is brand new but it's something that's a little bit different it was on point with the theme and it made sense so things like that I could appreciate on it but yeah I I asked Monica on it because I'm not a huge Princess Bride fan right so I'm not going to be able to judge it too much on the theme or anything like that but I asked my wife who was a massive fan and she was just like yeah this is exactly what I would want Alva pinball machine in in terms of just the overall Vibe but or the feel of everything that's going on with the call outs the scenes getting to see everything on there you you know you get to see something come to life and so I can respect that because somebody like her unlike us three Knuckleheads you know she's not jaded by the industry at all you know she's she's off to the side and she just sees a theme that she likes and I think there's a lot of people out there like that that see this that may not be viewing the game through the prism of well this has to have like an awesome layout or this has to have just top tier rules that I can go super deep and get to these Ultra wizard modes I think a lot of people are just looking at it from the standpoint does it have assets in the game and does it feel like the theme that I remember when I was a kid yeah and it it it seemed like according to her that checked all those boxes so in that regard multimorphic did a great job so Tom if your wife came to you and said this pinball machine has everything that I want she's not going to say that but go ahead but if she did if she's like I love this theme machine has everything I want in this game I really like this game would you buy it or would you just say if my wife was like we need to get this pinball machine I would get it that's a good that's really good of you that's a good that's a quality she got to have something Joel yeah are you trying to guilt me into buying this machine anything about you Travis you know I have a Stern Pirates right over there that I spent an obscene amount of money for several years ago that I should have never even spent it on it because my wife wanted that machine so she gets one is what you're saying I have a bunch of em over there that she wants too no I don't doesn't listen to this you're right okay I would say um I think if you are currently a P3 owner by Princess Bride you will enjoy the game I think your guests will enjoy the game um it was Inc it's incredibly well done um they have so many movie clips so many movie assets the the the layout like the just watching the different modes the modes look unique I really like how the rules are set up where you get to kind of choose your modes so it's not cra linear and getting bored um the ball going up the cliff yeah the magnet it's there's some really really neat stuff and unique like watching Travis play and he's in that sword fighting mode where um you know they're playing Left Hand or they're they're fighting they're only holding the sword with their left hand so like you you're controlling the whole game just on your left hand watching Travis do a post pass with only his left hand you know between his pointer finger and his middle finger it's like okay that was pretty cool that was pretty impressive and then all of a sudden in the in the mode they switch to the right hand handy Joel yeah he's skilled y um wow um so uh I think I well I'm just showing you my hands cuz Tom said he's pretty handy and I'm like yeah I can play off this it was good it was good 50 episodes to get to this you know this syn that much you want to try your joke again you want to try it again real quick maybe third time is better you want to try it no Tom do you have the beep on here do I have the on I'm not going to cuss not going to cuss I told myself no more bombs for the year um but I think it's testing my soul I would say I would say that it's it's in a similar vein of Elton John I think it's a really good theme I think the game's really well done but it comes back to price if you don't have a P3 you're looking at a plus 10 grand machine to get it and theme is it a is it a theme that is Princess Bride a theme that people love like universally love and praise I think people respect the movie but do they respect the movie to the point where they want to pay over $10,000 for it in their basement no so maybe maybe maybe he the right answer but um I would say if you're a P3 owner or if you're really heavily debating it like this may be the thing that pushes you over the edge but if you currently own P3 you've got to be a static like the game looks it's it's a great theme it's it's very very well done um so I play it felt a lot more approachable than Weird Al yes that's what it felt like it felt like one of the most approach E3 games that they put out I will completely agree with that Weird Al I've enjoyed Weird Al but the complexity of the upper module it's kind of like wait where are these shots going and what's going on it's just for anybody to just step up and play it's there's a lot more confusion there while this just made sense um and so I really enjoyed it I I would I would put my top two um P3 modules at final resistance and and um Princess Bride I those were the ones that were at mgc yeah they're great games and I think I think that now all of a sudden you look at it as like a combo do I want to pay I think it's what 10 something for I don't know exactly the price but if I want to get in on the system plus a module and then add another I think it's three grand for the other module like am I prepared to drop $15,000 for those two games um I don't know but I price of anon John you're getting two games for the price of one Joel that's valid and it only takes up the space of one so that's true you're getting into some deep meta stuff right now you're talking about you're talking about a smaller pinball company that most of the people in the pinball industry are enthusiasts know about but then we already know that they don't want to spend more than 10,000 yeah on a machine the fear of like not getting their money back that's that's the tough part but hopefully they get it figured out you know that's what I was going to say I've seen multiple posts recently on pin cider Facebook where when you when you get out of your P3 you have you have to sell all of it so you're selling you know now all of a sudden you're not selling a P3 at eight grand you're selling a P3 plus the four modules you've bought you know you may be selling $18,000 worth of stuff but you're trying to mark it at 12 or 13 just to move it but you're still that's still $113,000 so here here would be my recommendation sell what you can to the person who's buying it sell the other modules for a discount to somebody else if they don't that's the like if right there there's other people coming into the market so they it's just the tough part is is they have to have a P3 already you already have to be an adopter because there's not too many people that are just going to buy the module on its own well we already have to have electricity to have right and at the same time too it's just it's very difficult because I've tried to conceptualize this to brand new people into pinball that just come down to the basement or to my house and ask about it I I have a hard time conceptualizing what that product is for them to understand that they can remove the a large portion or if not the whole entire Playfield module up up there put it back down and it just to them it sounds like a lot of work so it's like it's very difficult to to get that through to people and obviously that's a a challenge that they've had to face down there but I would have to think that they're doing halfway decent considering that they've been in business now for what a decade or so and they still putting out games so they I I don't know I'm I'm impressed I'm impressed um I think the company is I it seems like the company's doing well I know they're sending about like almost these upgrade kits to a lot of their their owners I just I mean they're heading in the right direction but I'm still I mean maybe one day maybe by episode 75 or 100 one of us will finally have bought a P3 because we're like okay it just makes sense at this point here's a theme that I love Red Hot Chili Peppers comes out on on a P3 and Travis can't say no and then all of a sudden he own multiple modules I would be yeah I would be Absol your friends yeah well I've heard about that I've heard uh buffalo buffalo the like I know Kevin owns one but they have a few friends in the areas that also own them so they have different modules so they just swap modules yeah I mean you can only have one module in your game at a time oh perfect so you two bozos are volunteering to get a P3 along with me so we can just trade there we go over and over again right okay Tom's in there you go Joel me dist is a little far but he just needed one we're all the Midwest it's driving distance so okay so well done well done on that I think Princess Bride is I've heard nothing but um I wasn't for you you you Tom I thought he was saying well done to you and I for that segment Tom you're doing a great job what you do appreciate um what else we got labyr to talk okay I'm gonna let Tom talk here um actually we'll just start with this here we go let's uh here we go Tom talks he's got something to say Tom talks he's got nothing to say Tom talks I got I got nothing it's true okay Travis go um go make a green tea or something you know we don't need you uh Tom uh you played Texas Chainsaw Massacre at mgc and you liked it so I'm going to shut up I just want to hear all Stu really enjoyed playing that game I and it is a theme that is not up my alley let's put it that way but but uh I I thought the shots and the layout uh the layout was really cool um I I enjoyed the rules I don't think I got like super deep into the game but uh I think anybody getting a Texas Chain Chainsaw Massacre is going to really enjoy it um if you like that theme uh the the layout and the rules are done really well and you will definitely enjoy it so do you have one on order are you no I don't like the theme I'm not gonna put that in my house did you play did you play um and your wife doesn't want one right just making sure it's not a game that has everything I would assume if it even like came in the doorway she'd be like get the F out of here get it out of uh did you play Looney Tunes uh I did not not quite as much though uh I only played a game on it okay so layouts and everything's the same but different different views different thoughts on Looney tun it's a completely different game I mean even though the layout is the same you know it is uh it is completely different uh rule set you know they have different teams on the game so um you know different programmers and uh I believe the inserts are different uh like even a different layout yep so uh but uh no I I I I went to that game more than any other of the new games at the show at Midwest Gaming Classic and you had a very strong you had a very strong uh statement before we started recording what did say I can't remember I'm old it said uh when do we replace Travis with somebody better I think that was I did not say that I thought Travis and I were talking about you but no you said game of the show you said game of the show was what uh uh well for me Texas Chainsaw Massacre yeah I I thought it was I thought it was the best new game that I you know outside of you know Jaws which I've already yeah played uh Elton John and uh Paul fiction yeah Travis do you have any questions for Tom Tom's talking really well thank you I'm very proud of him I tried that was nice [Music] job I got I got no that just makes me happy um thanks yeah so Travis and I we played both we played both at Texas um and we actually had bug we had bug there and he kind of explained the game while we played it which was really really neat and um I will say um I think it's probably uh one of the best if not the best shooting spooky game that they've made layout is fun and unique um I was impressed by the code though on on Texas Chainsaw Massacre and and the reason being there was there was a mode that Travis got to where it's like I think he had completed all the is Jerry the right one I don't know he he completed all the the major modes of one character and he got to like this little mini wizard mode oh you're talking about the blood mode yeah yeah yeah this mode I just thought was brilliant but it's um it's the the the you had to shoot a bunch of shots and then he hits a scoop or he hits something and then the whole all the inserts on the game turn red so apparently the play Field's filled up with blood so what that means is every switch that's red counts but the more you do it because you're draining the blood out of the victim the the shots slowly turn white as they move closer and closer to the flipper so now all of a sudden you're back shots don't count anymore they're worthless so you are adjusting all the way to the point where only the slings are lit so imagine just using your flippers to try to hit your slings and to watch Travis Play This and like understand how the the mode is changing based on that I just thought that was really clever so that was just one and to see how jazzed and pumped up bug was to explain it um I think the the overall theme integration of that game is really impressive um yeah Travis what did you think you played it you were playing it really well yeah I so I would put it this way I going into tpf again not a huge ECM fan Texas Chainsaw Massacre Looney Tunes I did grow up on so I was like okay that that's the one I'm going to gravitate towards I found myself though enjoying my time a lot more on Texas Chainsaw Massacre that's what I did yeah I was shocked by that too it and it wasn't for I I don't know why that is exactly um I do know in terms of Looney Tunes I I don't know maybe it's just the presentation the sound package the the rules on it it wasn't something that I was really drawn to personally uh Texas Chainsaw Maser just felt like it had a little bit more interesting things or ideas behind it in terms of what the theme is how it's integrate it how the rules are so on and so forth so those are the parts of it that I could really appreciate the layout is very interesting because it's it was challenging but then at the same time it was like there was parts of it that was really fun to do then some parts of it that was kind of frustrating yeah and I don't know if that's because of the copy the particular copy and so I want to play it more and just play different versions of it and find out but just to give an example of this the upper left ramp I found myself rattling that a lot more than what I would want to right but the left ramp was just fine the upper right ramp just fine the right ramp just fine so there was certain shots that were that worked really well um outside of that I think I had some issues with the upper left flipper that's kind of hidden behind the left ramp in a way and I figured this out by playing I think it was Looney Tunes with one of my sons that he and a couple other people that were basically around like 54 55 they didn't even realized there was a flipper there the whole entire time so I'm curious to see how see it right and yeah and I I bent down and yeah it's one of those things that until you know it's there you know and it makes sense because you see a lot of people play games with an upper flipper that's in plain view but they never use it because they don't think about it you know so I've seen that plenty of times as well but something like that I Haven found myself and I'm just a little over six foot I found myself having a hard time really timing that shot overall but once you do figure it out it does WHIP around there pretty cool and you know the figure eight that it does is pretty neat and outside of that I think my only other complaint that I might have is maybe the left orbit return it's just it's really blocked off that when the ball comes back through that spinner because you have the wire form that's right above it you have I guess just that big Mech that's there at the side that's like the the meat grinder yeah yeah that kind of partially hangs over it so just depending on tall you are again mileage may vary but these are just like layout gripes sure with that over overall I would say that this is probably the most fun spooky I played out of anything and I thoroughly enjoyed Rick and Morty what it was and I enjoy TNA but in terms of just something that's just radically different than what's out there from anyone else it's just yeah they took a chance on just a pure horror theme that just lean completely into it it is Unapologetic they gross yeah all the way so I can respect that they're leaning into exactly what they want to do and they it didn't seem like that they cut any Corners with that so yeah it's not a game that I would bring into my house just because I do have young kids and everything but I would think again if lik the game so it's funny my I have two teenage boys that were were there and they gravitated more towards Looney Tunes more than anything and they don't even watch cartoons so I I haven't asked them why that is or whatever but they they went back to play it several times so I think it might have just been the whole thing that just seeing a guy with the chainsaw spin around they were just like yeah we we just don't want to see that so yeah but no overall they they had fun with the game and so that's the most important thing you're kind of if a kid can have fun with the Looney Tunes layout then that means they're probably going to go pretty good ways with that and I think it's just yeah it's a it's an interesting layout I still find it very fascinating that they're doing the two different themes okay with it which I think can work but it also puts us in a unique spot to where we are judging two pretty similar games to each other and I think in this case it was almost as if Tas chainsaw was just clearly a superior game and it's I was not expecting that for me it just it just felt like that to me I I think from a code standpoint Texas Chainsaw Massacre seems like there's a lot more there at the moment I don't know what percent you know I don't know code numbers it just seems like and I talking to bug there was there was a point where Texas Chainsaw Massacre did crash it didn't crash but like I sh we locked it up a little bit that's okay I think benck I think Ben heck has put a ton into the game but a lot of it still needs finessed tweaked all that stuff while Looney Tunes may not have as much in the game at the moment but it did seem I don't know I I just think it's I just think Texas Chainsaw Massacre is further along than Looney Tunes Looney Tunes playing it um yeah it just felt more accessible um all the modes like there's no timers in any of the modes right now so it's just survive and hit the shots and experience the game so I I just think it's I mean maybe that that'll always be that way but I could understand why novice players or kids or even maybe average players might be drawn more towards Looney Tunes because it's a lot more accessible in that way um my one gripe with both of them and I Know Travis you've already made mention of it could be the model it could be or that particular unit or it could be Expo power things feeling underpowered um the hook multiball the the hook lock Mech it's the mech in the back of both of the games um both of them do it in a slightly different way but both of them you have to hit the captive ball so I think it's in Texas Chainsaw Massacre you you like hit the captive ball and then you can lock a ball and then you have to hit the captain ball and you lock a ball while Looney Tunes you have to hit the captive ball I think it's like four or five times and once you've done that then you can lock all three balls I could not ever experience that Mech and it and it wasn't and it was because of the captive ball there was PL I I've played a lot of games that have cap balls some of them you have to drill you know I know even like on Avengers an Avengers Pro you can barely graze that cap the ball and the ball moves just barely and it'll register as a hit while like on a premium you have to nail the thing because it's got to move way further back to register a hit this the way that the ball it's not flat it's like it's almost like it's pushing the other ball up and there were times where I was drilling it like head on just bam and it didn't register a hit and I don't know if that's a mechanical issue a code issue whatever it was but I found myself getting to the point where it's like that's all I'm trying to do and so I'm spending three balls the whole game just bashing or trying to bash a c the ball and to feel like it wasn't registering or or you didn't hit it clean enough it's just that's the one area of the game the one little Mech that I I I hope they can address or tweak in a way um because yeah when you feel like there's a a mechanical road block to experience something in the game especially something as critical as a multiball um but I've seen I've seen bug stream the game multiple times and he obviously knows the layout he knows how to hit it he can flow boom boom boom you can combo so many shots so for people that get these in their house and learn the game they're going to know where the upper flipper is they're going to know how to shoot it um so if you're a huge Looney Tunes fan a huge Texas Chainsaw fan I think your you guys are going to enjoy the game but those are my only complaints I think there's still a ways to go with the code and the captive Ball but um I would say if you're on the fence between either one I would personally and you can get either one into your house I would go with Texas Chainsaw Massacre and I say that as a Looney Tunes fan yeah like it just it just felt like the more complete package at this point and a lot of stuff made sense too when Leatherface start spinning around circles like I got that when Tad start spinning around I was just like I wanted to poke him tell him to go faster he's looking for his keys he's like where are they where are they he's not yeah he's gotten old too he's slowed down with age obviously it's what it is but still good I mean just just to review like we all loved Elton John we all loved or have really enjoyed Labyrinth we've all really enjoyed those games like it wasn't a there wasn't a clear-cut stinker or anything I mean it just Jaws was we all Jaws I'll be up front I enjoy Texas Chainsaw Mas more than Labyrinth personally okay and so do Tom just from the shot's perspective and from what it was you know it's like anything else if we look at pinball through the prism of wanting to have fun you can find fun anyway and if we approach it you know from the standpoint well we're going to be grumpy and just pick it apart yeah we could do that too we could do that to anything but overall from a fun standpoint I did find myself going back and playing Texas Chainsaw Maser a couple of times during the weekend so I can't say the same for several other games yeah let's find some fun Travis let's find some fun in the next game which is Bario's barbecue challenge um did you where was the fun did you find the fun I played it five times five times I did play it five times because I wanted to give the game an honest chance like I made my decision when I went to tpf all the games I was going to give them an honest shot right so what the struggle with barbecue challenge for me personally whenever I was playing it the first couple of copies I played the ball would not get up all the way to the left ramp I was having pure PTSD of RZA back at Houston Expo in 2019 I like I remember missing that ramp or not completing that ramp 40 plus times and I was just transferred all the way back there again when I was playing my first barbecue challenge game and I the flippers just felt underpowered so I went ahead I waited in line for the one next to it I want to try a different copy the same thing happened again I was like oh crap what is going on and so I ended up not playing for the rest of the day but I went back and I found another cop elsewhere and unfortunately this one the flippers weren't align but you could make a ramp though yeah so I got to experience that but yeah it's just I don't know I I talked to several people that actually really really enjoyed the game thoroughly enjoyed but these are players that they're not new to pinball they've been in pinball for over a decade they're into all the weird stuff that you could think of right all the weird 70s and 80s layouts and games that's that's where their bread and Butter's at so this game spoke to them because it's kind of like like we talked about before it's almost like a space shuttle a modern space shuttle game with the way the locks are and releasing and everything so a lot of them appreciated that now the people that I talk to that are newer to pinball and they fall under like two three years or got into it during covid that they were not responding well to this game at all for various reasons the number one overwhelming reason was the theme like none of them could understand the theme so they were all vegetarian right yeah yeah so from a game playay yeah from a gameplay standpoint I really did like the locks yes that I enjoyed yes I like the idea of locking a ball immediately and then doing something to to bring it back out like I like those old school callbacks I wasn't a fan of the ramps in terms of the way that they were implemented with the game with the Spinners where they were I was finding myself I could not Loop the ramps like it would just if I was going to make a ramp it would just barely make it up there and a large part of that was just getting caught up in the spinner and even if I got on a copy to where I could Loop the left ramp over and over again after maybe three ramps in a row it would start to lose its power so I I don't know I I still want to give the game a shot but there just there wasn't enough there to really really pull me in and I was left wondering I told you guys guys this I think I told you this Joel when we were down there I know I talked about this on our on our chat but I just couldn't help but think while I was playing this I just couldn't imagine what would have happened if this game was a buckes or something like that if that was the theme right if they wanted to get it to different places and get it out there outside of the pinball industry I just feel like there was just so many other options they could go to besides McDonald yeah yeah yeah I mean there is a Domino's pin out there it brand it something well I can yeah I can tell you straight up like even like we we had Jetson that came out a few years ago and I can tell you straight up every single one sold so it's just like you you can get these games to the right people if that's your goal but I just don't know who this goes to that's the tough part like how do you get somebody this day and age in 2024 to pay attention to this game on location how do you convince somebody to bring this in to their house when they have Looney Tunes Labyrinth Texas Chainsaw Massacre Jaws P fiction I mean and what else is there there's there's all this other Princess Bride there's all these other games out there so it's just kind of like I don't I don't know it's It's just tough but Tom have you got a chance to play it barbecue challenge yeah did you accept the challenge I I played maybe two games on it um at MG could you hit the ramps I could hit the ramps um I had a I had a decent game going on it uh my first game um yeah I I mean I I I kind of laughed at you know they're slicing brisket and stuff and I was just like okay um somebody was talking about how they like I it might have been on on TPS um where squir squirting the barbecue sauce y um but uh I I mean I thought the game shot well it's just not I I guess I just don't get the whole theme and concept of it you know I I yeah to me I'm wondering you know like there's characters on the Playfield it looks like like are they somehow involved in this you know I I don't know the brisket Brothers burn and Bros or something there's it just it very much feels like a theme that should have came out 25 30 years ago that way we don't need an LCD to explain it or something like it's just like Diner you know you could accept what Diner is or imagine if Frontier came out today you needed an LCD to just show it right you just showed and like yeah some rugged Mountain deud just walking along it's just yeah that you know with a closeup and he comes in right so it's not like the theme is it's not like the theme is beyond pinball at all it's just that is that a theme that resonates in 2024 and using it on a modern pinball machine with the LCD screen and the LEDs and and all that that's the part that was just a little jarring because we haven't seen that very often I I can't think of any other game really in recent memory that just took just a bizarre left field theme that feels like it's straight out of the 80s or early 90s right right TNA is the only thing I can think of of just a it's out there theme this futuristic well we know we know American does original themes right I mean except for you know maybe Hot Wheels but like Hot Wheels is my favorite game of theirs okay so I I don't know yeah I I played the heck out of it and the reason I played the heck out of it is because there was there was like no line there was never a line for for uh that at least maybe it would be like a onep person deep line so if if I'm walking around and I'm like okay I'm going to be here for three days I want to make sure I can play the games that I don't normally get to play I'm trying to put time in on you know the games I haven't streamed the new stuff barbecue challenge I played it multiple multiple times and I struggled to hit the ramps and then to add insult to injury there's Spinners on the ramps so it's like I can't even complete the ramp so I'm not getting any spins you know there's no power up there where the spinner is it's it's just dead so you know I don't know if that's you if it was Expo power I don't know if you can turn up the flippers maybe get some Precision flippers I don't know something more power on those ramps find I didn't find that at Midwest Gaming Classic I felt like I could hit the Rams well hopefully that's the case because the rest of it um the pop bumpers were cool they did some cool stuff with the lights and the pop bumpers I did like the locks a lot I did like the locks the way you could lock the ball choose when you start your multiball you can bash the balls when they're in the lock to do some stuff I also really like the LCD screen in the Playfield it's so helpful to know what's going on by not having to look all the way up um so there are some things that I find redeemable or some things that I did really like that I did like about the game but um no it's not a game it's not a game I own and um you know I have I I know people in the hobby that are used to buying everything to try it out but it's just that's that's asking a little too much to to buy a barbecue game to put in their basement if especially if they only plan on having it for a few months um so it's just I don't know I honestly I don't know where I'm going to see it ever um I think Steve Bowen listening to him um on the loser kid pinball podcast uh explained the rules he's he's done some really unique and creative stuff so I think from a tournament standpoint that game could probably be pretty awesome but who's gonna I mean unless District 82 gets one I don't know many bars like Lumberjack Johnny is they going to get a barue challenge ER doesn't buy a lot of new like the newer games he usually buys them used so yeah I it's GNA be tough for locations to adopt this I think if you do see it out you're going to see it at pinball co-ops or something like that like people that just thoroughly enjoy off-the-wall themes and off-the-wall game I think that's really who it would speak to because honestly like if you think about this from a business standpoint if you are running a route and you have dolls a Foo Fighters something like that like what how much money is barbecue challenge really going to make long term yeah after you get over that initial one to two week honeymoon that's the that's the scary part about it so yeah especially when there's so many other pins available right now in similar price ranges with really big themes um yeah which we'll let's we could talk about that but just to wrap up um Texas I I think that was all the new game Turner pinball was there we did I did play ninja uh Eclipse um the cabinet I think they've made a good step in the right direction the cabinet now looks like a pinball machine it acts like a pinball machine um it still is a unlicensed theme I think the art is probably the best part of the game I think the art is actually really impressive um there were people I talked to a a a guy who's a fan of the show that he he's gonna buy one he's he's in he's bought a lot of games and he's like I want to support him I want to give it a shot um the talking to one of the guys there I mean they've done a lot with the rules um it's just it to me it always comes back to for that same amount of money that I could be handing Turner pinball there's a lot other really good games that are new and available that I that I would prefer over um ninja Eclipse uh it was at mgc did you play it Tom did you have a chance to play I did I actually played the last two minutes of the show okay and then the power went out cuz show was off but I was able to start the multiball uh I thought the uh I I I thought the layout was fine honestly yeah um I thought the scoop thing was a little different the Right Scoop ejects into the left the left scoop and then out it up the Playfield yeah it's a I guess it's a cool effect but I was just like you know like it was it's a little different um but oh I mean I you know for the couple minutes I played it was enjoyable I guess yeah I I think I would just say just real short about Turner pinball they they came out they obviously had some um to be associated with um the deep root stuff you know they've tried to separate themselves from that their initial Whitewood that we played at tpf last year was not great um and then they tried to revolutionize the cabinet and try to do some crazy stuff at X Expo last year and it was like don't do this but I will say props to them for listening they've listened to feedback they've improved all the areas that people complained about yes the cabinet was solid they so it's like as a company good I'm glad you're you're heading in the right direction you know I hope they sell I hope they sell enough of these to be profitable for them and they can learn from all this and and move on to the ne you know maybe they can get a theme uh a license theme or something and do even better with the second one but um I I just that's one of those things where it's kind of a good on them good on them for for listening and and heading in the right direction um other games we played there was a lot of home brew games so shout out to Glenn we played Jaws I know him and his buddies not Jaws um wow saw close um we played saw um that was a whirlwind rethe to the Saw movies and it was very well done Glenn did all the audio we played a song of his at the end of last episode that was really cool to play um there's a Friday the 13th game there that was really cool to play um aall Beyond was there there's some some of the Homebrew games are really have really gotten impressive with how polished they are and how really they seem like a legitimate you know game um so that was a lot of fun but I don't I would say My overall experience Expo was awesome or Texas pinball Festival was awesome it was really really cool playing all the games talking to the different manufacturers talking to the fans that were there um I will gladly go again next year and um even hanging out with Travis was nice so that's nice yeah Tom are you gonna commit the next year we missed Tom we did Miss I don't know it's just it'll all depend I mean the hard thing was I all F sitters the hard thing is spring break yes yes spring break and this year all my kids will have a different week of spring break what about next year that's next year yeah oh you're calling this year next year already yes that what you're saying not last year I'm with you spring break this year is over so now I'm just it's already happened yes so idea right uh oh how about you just forget about them and just come down anyway uh I do enjoy being married to my wife so I he doesn't idea another idea and she does let me do other things I guess I mean Monica's going to be there well I like we can to do can see she might find a pinball machine that she really wants Tom yeah yeah I'm sure that'll be the case what pinball machine do you think your wife would want like what one pinball machine I don't know got to be a theme out there Ben afflac I don't the been affle the pinball machine I have no idea I do want to talk about uh Midwest Gaming Classic a little bit go for yeah I don't I've never been so you know it's definitely not a pinball show but it has a lot of pinball involved with it but it's a all-encompassing game show so if there's anything gaming you can think of it'll be at that show uh you're talking video Gam arcade games uh board games uh there's actually wrestling there they have a wrestling ring in the vendor Hall and they put on shows um there's there's just a lot going on and uh I have never seen so many people at a show at any show than I have this one uh as as far as like a a pinball show or an arcade show yeah I mean it was it was pretty amazing I I I was uh helping Rachel risto um put on the tournament this year and she did last year too but you put on the tournament for Midwest Gaming Classic and I was helping out and I it it was amazing to me how many people came up and asked if they could play the pinball machines and I'm like well you know there's like over like 200 in the like gaming Hall and they were like there's a gaming Hall oh wow I mean that that's just how big this show is and uh so so of course I pointed them in the right direction but it it it was just amazing to me how many people were there I must have had a 100 people come up to me while I was working the the the desk uh awesome asking I've always in my mind thought of mgc being a smaller pinball show just like Louisville Arcade Expo pincinnati cin I just thought it was one of those but I I never actually thought that no like the pinball part of it is a very small part of a very large show so that's I mean all the manufacturers were were there or at least represented so there were you know Marco had had the big sterm booth amusements was there with uh uh their uh they kind of had a Stern Booth or or they did have a Stern Booth um spooky was there uh uh American pinball was there obviously uh and then Turner pinball uh P3 and then uh you know Kingpin uh who's a big Wisconsin distributor you know had a bunch of stuff had had uh pulp fictions there I mean it's an amazing show the the coolest thing he had uh Kingpin had from raw Thrills uh a Godzilla VR have you ever seen that oh wow no no yeah there was a huge line to go play that it was pretty awesome but the the thing I don't know how all shows operate but one of the coolest things about Midwest Gaming Classic is if you work the show as a volunteer uh or you're a vendor uh they they open up the hall at 8 o'l on Saturday to just those people oh nice yeah so like there's less crowds and you just get to enjoy the stuff so um but uh I played that Godzilla VR and it it's it's pretty amazing that's awesome well good now we can get back to pinball no I clearly um clearly I did this at the wrong time time talk he had something to say time talk had to say time [Music] talk I got I got nothing well done well done no that's actually really cool that's what it's solid endorsement I think I got to give my five minutes on this podcast uh well well we got a few minutes left here um uh one thing we should probably talk about I don't have it in our notes but um there was a new game announced uh it's called Abba Abba we got multiple emails apparently we've all been saying it wrong I kept saying ABA last it's AB like abiss abiss I got emails from two Europeans and one Australian saying saying that we did it wrong so Abba um Abba was announced um uh Tom you have one right you're getting one on order no no no Travis you buying one no no no okay um it'll sell just fine though oh yeah it's like yeah it's going to do the same thing Queen did the one thing I've noticed completely that somehow a big portion of people on pinside and on Facebook don't realize there's this other continent called Europe that plays pinball also amazing I was there too and so are you yeah it's just like they always forget about that they see these themes and they just like oh it'll NE never sell or you know I don't understand this I don't understand that but it's you know these themes are huge over there and they sell very well over there there's a reason why these games keep coming out you know somebody's buying them what's the um I don't have the page pulled up because I'm not a professional podcaster but um what pricing the cheapest version of ABA because Abba ABA you said it wrong ABA Abba the cheapest version of ABA ABA no Abacus Abacus that what's an abacus why why are we saying this course that is you don't know what an abacus is deals with math what it's only ,000 on Flipping Out pinball Joel it deals with math is that the thing you play with when you go to the dentist office when you're like Den yeah Tom probably has 15 of them Tom have like 10 of those there no I'm just trying to you know we talked a lot about genre earlier and like I would put Abba in the same realm as Elton John like it's a it's a theme a lot of people know ABBA songs but is it something it's very loud is it something that they want in their house but if pricing is somewhere El it's gonna be yes Jo Joel yeah you asked a question I'm ready for the answer the voyage Edition is limited to 300 units and it is $10,995 plus shipping plus Shi so it's going to be comparable we're shipping flipping out pinball okay but is so we're close to an Elton John I just feel like all you know we've said Elon John shoots well the music is great the animation great everything's great but people aren't buying them because it's $112,000 and it's a theme they know but they're not loving I feel like Abba falls in the exact same category if this was Rush would be all in on it okay okay if you are an ABBA if you're an ABBA fan I think they've done it well the art the sound there's 16 songs the layout I was looking at it at flipping out with friends the other night and the layout looks interesting my one complaint is the upper flipper there's only a handful of shots that utilize the upper flipper and it looks like there's an inner loop but I don't think it actually Loops I think it does the lead Zeppelin thing I think it goes up and hits a stand up and then drops down into the pops and the fact that that's not a loop uh that's a bummer that's a bummer to me um don't you have to like gather their souls or something like that I I don't I don't know I don't there's um there's something strange going on with the r Zach is trying to get one apparently they're going to be manufactured in May Zach is gonna try to get get one so I can stream it so I might be playing the heck out of it and I'm okay with that um uh so it just yeah comes if you're an ABBA fan you're probably excited with what you're seeing but as a non-aba person this doesn't I mean it's like yeah whatever is that legit what's happening in this game you collect Souls yeah yeah you have to it says here I know nothing about is this like the lore I don't know okay there's three sorry Tom go ahead there's three their avatars requires you to gather gather three main elements the band memb instruments outfits and their souls in that order in that order in that order we can get away with the the outfit but yeah that's you got to you got to get their I mean they leaned in if you look at the art package it is it is trippy it is I mean it just seems like they are they're leaning into this being ridiculous and is that is that part of the the lore though of the band The Avatar I don't know Avatar and collecting Soul like is this like an Eddy thing like it was for Iron Maiden or I think so like they're trying to you know instead of just make it a listener if you're game they're making if if you're a DieHard Abba fan as a listener and there's lore here that we need to learn please email us at triple drain gmail.com with links we will cover it on the next episode so that the entire listener population can be educated on AB I got I got us covered hang on chat GPT right now you're going to Google it talking to your AI friend I mean they got all their po popular songs Dancing Queen waterl SOS yeah uh Take a Chance on Me Mama Mia knowing she went over these songs with me I have no idea what any of these songs are Travis get out a little bit will you go touch some grass okay you know I I just your car put on the disco music the cops might accidentally show up to my house according to what chat GPT just threw back at me so I asked him okay is it Abba or ABA let's get this straight it's Abba Abba okay Abba right Abus we don't know what it is Abacus okay so I said does abba have collecting Souls as part of their theme or whatever right and chat GPT which is never wrong never tells that it seems like you might be referring to something metaphorical or symbolic related to Aba ABA ABA sh the literal idea of collecting Souls doesn't apply to them I don't know what's you know why is this so they famous for their catchy pop music and have captivated audiences worldwide with their songs captivated captivated so what does collecting Souls have to do with like complete the Avatar you know do we have to spell it out for you is this like the fooot but for I don't know Travis okay I'm sorry I just got so many questions I know we're in the people had to sell their souls to get the license and for the outfit though you got to get the outfit too I'm so lost you know how this goes Joel if Tom says something that breaks my brain I need answers and we go down this rabbit hole that lasts an hour now I'm just El John you have to collect outfits that makes sense though that's on theme right they've had some outfits yeah there a lot of white one jumpsuits it's going to be great I don't know it's coming out unfortunately um the video that's out there right now is really poor there's very little video of gameplay hopefully somebody that's the best reveal of all time I don't know what you're talking about hopefully somebody streams it so we can actually have a better understanding of what's going on in the game um sooner than later um so it's kind of a wait and see situation on that but it's out so if you're and yeah if you're a uh if you're an ABBA fan uh you know I think it could be a good game yeah it has it has a it has a shot the layout is shot the layout doesn't look terrible the art is entertaining it yeah we'll have to see um there's a disco ball in it Joel sure is yeah uh what do we got uh other things to mention real quick uh I I'll keep it short but Zach has let me borrow thanks Zach at flipping out has let me borrow a uh Star Wars premium and all I can say is now that I've had it in my initial impression of Star Wars every time I've played it on location is the game sucks it it it I and the reason I say that is because it's brutal you plunge it hits the it hits the targets it's out you plunge it's out it's like I just feel like I could never play the game and it's like Dwight did all the code I want it I know there's a ton of really good code here but I can't experience any of it that because the layout was brutal so now now that I've had it in my collection he could cod in a ball save he did so now I've had in my collection like the Tatooine shot on the far right it's a scoop by default that could kick it out and just straight down the middle but now there's a ball save so I turn that on that's not going to be on on location you know there's little things like that that I out I helped I helped myself I made the made the game a little more access easy I could play Forever still not easy there are definitely the Horseshoe shot can be brutal the Death Star shot you have to hit it clean because of the uamp and then what sucks is if you if you get into a death star mode it dribbles the ball back down but I have problems where that goes straight down the middle so you got to be ready for it like it keeps you on your toes um so with all that said I actually now really enjoy the game I I actually have found a a huge appreciation for the game mainly because of the Dwight code now that I can play it and experience it more there is a ton to do in that game I love that you can tackle it from different people you can go down completely different paths completely different directions there's a ton to do I think I've completed almost everything in the game not all in one game but it is something where it's like okay now that I see that I can complete this I can complete that doom boom boom boom boom boom boom like in a perfect world you put it all together you're GNA beat it now um if you actually look like Star Wars pinball Travis on his old Channel actually has a stream where you've beat the game it's on YouTube and it shows Travis doing it um what I don't remember what it was under tra but you stream the game you beat it what channel was That is it Marv Loco or Marv loo yeah I haven't posted on there in a couple years though yeah but um I don't know I would just say if it's I get that Star Wars is arguably one of if not maybe the best license ever and so the layout sells a lot of you Joel from what I hear it sells really really well and I I just feel like they could have done more with the layout or the toys or the mechs in the game there's the fact there's no magnets in the game you know and it's Star Wars the Force I think that could have been better but the code I think D I think Dwight crushed it Stills unit still moves units yeah that's fair like think think about this that game came out in 2017 17 or 18 I think 2017 and it's still 2024 still on the line yep I I wish they uh I wish they still did the comic book art 100% I mean I like I like the regular I I might I would possibly get I would probably get a pro with the comic book art if they still sold it yeah box but I'm not going to pay like nine or 10 grand just because it comic book art the what I will say Pro to Premium the premium gives you the whole Hyper hyp Speed Mech um it is really hyper Loop hyperloop hyper yeah it is the theel it is very cool when you get a ball up there and it whips it it is very cool but it is a hurry up and so to hit that like it's it's challenging enough that um like my brother's only experienced it a handful of times I don't think my wife would ever be able to hit that shot to experience that that is sexist um it's because she doesn't play Pinball I know it's a it's a lack of skill not we got to clear that for the listeners yes yes um so it's a huge Mech and it's something that's really exciting so for a novice to step up to it and be like well how do I do that it's like well good luck is basically the answer um so I could see it if I could see why people own the pro uh one thing I don't no does the pro have the three different color GI do you know cuz that having the red blue and white lights is that really adds a ton to the light show but I mentioned earlier the the Death Star that blows up I it's happened so rarely that to not have that on the pro I don't think you're missing anything um so I could see it I could see people wanting to own the pro I think the pro would be a fun game but unfortunately now there's really not a ton of entertain aining mechs that you're going to experience in the in the Pro but the code it does the movie Justice it there's a ton of sound Clips there's a ton of video clips it feels like Star Wars it sounds like Star Wars um and I love the way you can play the game and attack the game so um I know I'm late to the party this is a David Dennis cold take here um but it's a good game it's I I actually I get it I understand why there are people that own Star Wars that say it'll never leave my collection and I didn't understand that before because it it would just kick my butt um so yeah that's my any do you guys agree disagree you've owned it Tom apparently buy it again I hope they keep making Star Wars for as long as possible it sells they sell yeah because it's just like we talked about before is the main thing that people in the pinball industry need to realize is that everybody that discovers pinball all the themes are brand new to them first time they see it so they're going to naturally gravitate towards your s tier theme and Star Wars is definitely that you know regardless of what's going on with Disney right now and Mandalorian acolytes ahoka all that yeah bottom line is the original trilogy people still respond to that incredibly well so it's just yeah it's just a game that they could if they can hold on to that license just keep pumping it out because people will keep purchasing it I mean that's just the reality of it it's just it's a great theme I have an answer to Joel's question I'm ready ready for my answer the pro premum premium and Le all have the tricolor GI so the only difference between the pro and the premium is the hyper the hypers speed Loop and theing dstar yeah okay I could see it I could see why you are fine with a pro like I could you know what's fantastic about the game also that was I I don't know how they came up with this decision but in hindsight it was an incredibly smart decision the fact that even that game that's right behind you there Joel that's the premium correct correct which is Darth Vader very prominent y right Sith and all that so they made sure to lean into that and Boba Fett everybody loves Boba Fett imagine if that would have been on the Ellie instead I I don't know if people would have responded as much because Darth Vader is just such an iconic character just the fact that they can keep having the opportunity to get that game the premium version of it over and over again so it's just cuz I remember when that first came out a lot of people are thinking that the Sith and I even thought this too should have been on the Le something like that but I'm so glad that they didn't do that and that's still accessible to people today because you can still choose like the pro right the transl I think is all the Hero characters correct I'm trying to picture it in my in my head so yeah it's just yeah I can't say enough good things about the game I mean there's there's stuff in there I wish was a little bit different but I owned a premium for a few years until I finally like you mentioned earlier Joel I did everything that you know there was a do on it so I needed a break anyways but it's yeah it's a fantastic game in terms of just seeing the ball whip around and just the sights and the sounds and if you put a subwoofer on it and you hear the theme music just pop off I mean that's that's a cool cool moment right there and if you can destroy the Death Star very cool moment as well I did it I did it on stream and it was cool it it was a it was a really enjoyable moment so it's um it was just kind of a surprise it it kind of comes back to we've said this before um you know I love location pinball but you really can't fully experience a game until you get it in your house in a controlled lighting a controlled sound environment where you're not worried about pumping quarters into it just play it and learn it and that's where you can really digest a game and and yeah this was a situation where I had the ability to do that and my Outlook on the game completely changed so um yeah it's a great game but well we are out of time that was short that was I tried I tried we're out of time there's always more to talk about I'm sensing sarcasm Tom yes no no no yeah it's because uh you know the it's like the Improv thing that and yes and yes and you know so Travis like says but then he ask a question and then you agree and then you ask you know it's hard to shut it off we should applaud Travis as I hit my mic uh for not his camera did not go out he's learning for the 50th episode this is Monumental this is the step a step in the right direction especially how busy he's been yeah there's um there's more stuff to talk about hopefully we won't uh hopefully we won't be as long until we record again um my guess would be uh Stern hopefully we'll re announce another game by the end of the month maybe uh so hopefully we can record after that I got a hint there's some games coming I I believe that there's going to be more pinballs showing up Pinball's good pinball yeah yeah so let's uh yeah let's plug it up Tom plug away man hi I'm Tom do I hit the uh I I podcast here on Triple drain with Joel and Travis but I also stream pinball on Fox Cities Pinball so if You' care to watch that uh follow me on Twitch and YouTube perfect perfect uh go for Travis sweet so my name is Travis I do podcasting here on Triple drain I'm also on YouTube via the pinball company and I sometimes even show up on Fox Cities Pinball whenever he's streaming tournaments when I'm on there and then occasionally I will Heckle Joel whenever he tries to stream as well appreciate that y appreciate yes you do uh my name is Joel obviously I do this podcast and then uh I stream for flipping out on The Flipping Out YouTube channel every Wednesday night uh between chatting streams or gameplay with my brother yeah Joel and friends or Jared and Joel uh stream it's a good time it's a good time so check us out on YouTube uh feel free to like And subscribe and comment on all that um yeah it's a lot of fun we do a lot of different stuff here on the show and uh we have a lot of different opinions but it's always fun to come together and talk um and have a good time so once again happy Birthday Travis um congrats on making it to 40 and um yeah just I'm looking forward to all the butt stuff that comes with it apparently got like colonoscopies and all that so okay well on that note uh Tom you get the last play more pinball _(Acquisition: youtube_auto_sub, Enrichment: v4)_ --- *Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 72a90d3d-3833-41e0-a163-70386f6b86d5*