# Ep 43: Dream Themes Go Gonzo **Source:** Pinball Party Podcast **Type:** podcast_episode **Published:** 2023-11-01 **Duration:** 46m 2s **Beat:** Pinball **URL:** https://pinballparty.podbean.com/e/dream-themes-go-gonzo/ --- ## Analysis Jason from Pinball Party Podcast discusses pinball market conditions, rumors of a Super Mario pinball machine in development at Stern (based on a shirt sighting at Expo and Nintendo music usage), persistent Matrix licensing rumors at Jersey Jack, and explores dream theme ideas including Star Wars, Superman, Tool, and Blade. He analyzes secondary market pricing pressure, inventory gluts, and declining demand for recent releases like Venom and premium editions. ### Key Claims - [MEDIUM] A Stern/JJP game designer at Expo was wearing a Super Mario shirt and told someone they were working on a Mario pinball machine — _Jason describing an anecdote from 'Steve' who witnessed this at Expo; unverified secondhand account_ - [MEDIUM] Stern used Nintendo Wii Mii Creator music in an Expo promotional video on Instagram, suggesting possible Nintendo partnership — _Jason observed and commented on Stern's Instagram post; Stern liked the comment acknowledging the Mii music_ - [LOW] JJP has acquired the Matrix license and is developing a Matrix pinball machine — _Jason cites persistent rumors, partly sourced from Kaneda's Pinball Podcasts; described as 'rumor' and 'grain of salt'_ - [HIGH] Stern has reduced MSRP for Led Zeppelin Premium and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Premium to $7,500 (down from $9,000) — _Jason states this happened, referencing Flip N Out Pinball availability; market pressure indicated_ - [HIGH] Secondary market pinball prices are declining significantly due to economic conditions and oversupply — _Jason provides detailed market analysis with Pinside listings: Lord of the Rings (23 for sale, prices 7k-11k), Jurassic Park Premium ($8k OBO), Godzilla Premium ($8.3k sale pending)_ - [HIGH] Games like Tron Pro are relisted 8+ times and sitting for 8+ months, indicating pricing misalignment — _Jason pulls specific Pinside listing showing Tron Pro relisted 8 times at $10.5k OBO_ - [MEDIUM] Elvira LE buyers experienced significant value loss due to Stern releasing multiple LE editions in quick succession — _Jason expresses frustration about Stern's strategy of releasing Elvira LE, Beyond LE, and a new cooler LE at $13k_ - [MEDIUM] Rocketman's flippers and feedback indicate JJP has nailed precision/speed gameplay required for a potential Matrix adaptation — _Jason's inference based on feedback; speculative but grounded in observable game design trends_ - [MEDIUM] The hardcore pinball market is sustained by COVID-era newbies and die-hard collectors, but is now being pressured by new LE pricing — _Jason's market analysis and observation of purchase hesitation_ - [HIGH] Gonzo's Pinball Flipperama is a popular YouTube channel with high production quality — _Jason recommends the channel enthusiastically and references specific content about dream themes_ ### Notable Quotes > "one of them pointed to his shirt said yeah I'm working on this game right now. Um and Steve saw this person's shirt and the person's shirt was wearing a Super Mario T-shirt." > — **Jason (Pinball Party Podcast)**, early in episode > _Key rumor evidence for Super Mario pinball development at a major manufacturer_ > "Stern was making this video about Expo and they were using the Mii music and I said with my profile that's funny that sounds like the Mii music and that sounds like it is and Stern just gave my post a thumbs up" > — **Jason**, mid-episode > _Circumstantial evidence linking Stern to Nintendo IP partnership via social media signal_ > "if Rocketman's flippers are any indication from the feedback we get that they've really nailed it, then I think they're in good hands. Because when I think Matrix, I think speed and precision" > — **Jason**, mid-episode > _Analysis of why JJP would be suited for Matrix license adaptation based on recent game performance_ > "I will happily pay $12,000 for a Matrix machine, possibly even $15,000. That's one of those, like, Lord of the Rings to me, where I'd be like, okay, I just have it and whatever." > — **Jason**, mid-episode > _Demonstrates Matrix as a tier-1 dream theme with extreme purchase appeal and FOMO potential_ > "if you want any hope. Don't list it anywhere close to MSRP right now. Take a thousand dollars off basically instantly" > — **Jason**, market analysis section > _Practical market advice indicating systemic overpricing across secondary market inventory_ > "23 games for sale, Lord of the Rings. The lowest is 7,000. the highest this is the normal this is not LE the highest is 11" > — **Jason**, market analysis > _Specific market data showing pricing compression and oversupply of previously stable titles_ > "I would want Stern to do it with, yeah, Keith Elwin. I want the whole team. Man, I want it to be where, like, everyone stop what you're doing. We're all going to work on this." > — **Jason (discussing dream theme Star Wars)**, dream themes section > _Illustrates collector/fan perspective on designer/team preference and collaborative vision for premium IP_ > "I want it very force-based, Jedi-based. I mean, like, progression. Use the Stern progression system so you're training as a Jedi over time." > — **Jason (Star Wars design concept)**, dream themes section > _Detailed design thinking showing how players envision gameplay innovation for dream themes_ > "the fear with Jersey Jack from uh even from Matrix or that of like don't don't just do the multi-ball thing and i know people say that a lot but it's true it turns me off" > — **Jason**, dream themes discussion > _Critical feedback on JJP design philosophy (multiball-heavy rules) that concerns collectors even for desired licenses_ > "it's not Ninja Eclipse uh but you know yeah Matrix in my head that that may do it but and uh hey look it's just something i would very much like to see" > — **Jason (discussing gameplay innovation expectations)**, dream themes section > _Player expectation that new premium releases need visible mechanical/design innovation beyond recent titles_ ### Entities | Name | Type | Context | |------|------|---------| | Pinball Party Podcast | organization | Podcast hosted by Jason; focuses on pinball culture, news, rumors, and industry discussion | | Jason (Pinball Party) | person | Host of Pinball Party Podcast; technical sales engineer in tech industry; pinball collector and trader; provides market analysis and dream theme discussion | | Stern Pinball | company | Major pinball manufacturer; rumored to be developing Super Mario pinball; reduced MSRP on recent titles; subject of pricing strategy criticism | | Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Major pinball manufacturer; rumored to have Matrix license; known for spectacle-driven design; Rocketman praised for precision gameplay | | Super Mario (pinball) | game | Rumored unannounced pinball machine; evidence includes Expo shirt sighting and Nintendo Wii music usage in Stern marketing | | The Matrix (pinball) | game | Dream theme; persistent rumors of JJP development; highly desired by collectors; would demand premium pricing | | Rocketman | game | Jersey Jack Pinball game; praised for flipper precision and gameplay feedback; used as indicator of JJP's capability for Matrix adaptation | | Lord of the Rings | game | Popular Jersey Jack title; secondary market analysis shows 23 units for sale with prices 7k-11k; previously hard to find; Jason collector profile | | Venom | game | Recent Stern release; Jason dislikes it; marked down significantly; experiencing soft demand and pricing pressure | | Elvira LE | game | Limited edition Stern release; multiple versions released in succession; buyers experienced significant value loss; criticized for FOMO strategy | | Zach Sharpe (Flip N Out Pinball) | person | Operator/vendor referenced by Jason; offering discounted Stern games (TMNT Premium, Led Zeppelin Premium at $7,500) | | Kaneda's Pinball Podcasts | organization | Podcast source for Matrix rumors; Kaneda is described as a marketing figure; Jason takes claims 'with grain of salt' for click-bait potential | | Gonzo's Pinball Flipperama | organization | YouTube content creator; high production quality; explores dream themes; Jason references and recommends | | Keith Elwin | person | Pinball designer; Jason's preferred choice to design dream theme Star Wars for Stern | | Jack Danger | person | Pinball designer at Stern; mentioned as potential designer for dream theme Star Wars | | Mark Ritchie | person | Legendary pinball designer; Jason expresses desire for him to redesign Star Wars | | David Thiel | person | Pinball designer/developer at Stern; mentioned as part of ideal team for dream Star Wars project | | Tanyo | person | Pinball code designer/programmer at Stern; mentioned as ideal team member for Star Wars dream theme | | George Gomez | person | Pinball designer/programmer; mentioned as ideal team member for Star Wars dream theme | | Dutch Pinball | company | Pinball manufacturer praised by Gonzo for quality and attention to detail; Lebowski cited as example of complete theme execution | | Pinside | organization | Online pinball marketplace/forum; primary data source for Jason's secondary market analysis | | Kayla Hernandez | person | Guest on previous Pinball Party episode (Ep 42) from Electric Bat Arcade; discussed Expo coverage | | Dennis | person | Mentioned casually in discussion of muggles/casual players | ### Topics - **Primary:** Super Mario pinball rumors and evidence, The Matrix license and JJP development rumors, Secondary market pricing decline and oversupply, Dream themes and wish list games (Star Wars, Superman, Tool, Blade, Deadpool) - **Secondary:** Stern pricing strategy and MSRP reductions, Limited edition FOMO and buyer regret (Elvira LE), Game design innovation and mechanical expectations - **Mentioned:** Designer preferences and manufacturer reputation (JJP multiball criticism) ### Sentiment **Mixed** (-0.3) — Jason expresses frustration with market conditions, pricing strategies, and lack of innovation, but maintains optimism about future dream themes and industry potential. Tone is cynical about economics and FOMO tactics, but passionate about pinball possibilities. Opening segment about work stress sets negative tone, but dream theme discussion is enthusiastic and aspirational. ### Signals - **[machine_intel]** Anecdotal evidence of Super Mario pinball in development at Stern: designer shirt sighting at Expo + Nintendo Wii music usage in official Stern Instagram video (confidence: medium) — Jason's secondhand account from 'Steve' about shirt sighting + observed Instagram post liked by Stern confirming Mii music recognition - **[rumor_hype]** Persistent rumors of Matrix license acquired by JJP for pinball adaptation (confidence: low) — Jason cites rumors from Kaneda's Pinball Podcasts and community discussion; cautiously skeptical of sourcing but acknowledges pattern of credible sightings - **[market_signal]** Systematic price compression across secondary market; recently released premium games declining 30-40% within 6-12 months (confidence: high) — Detailed Pinside analysis: TMNT/Led Zeppelin reduced to $7.5k MSRP, Jurassic Park Premium $8k OBO, Godzilla $8.3k pending sale, Tron Pro relisted 8 times at $10.5k - **[product_concern]** Severe inventory glut in secondary market; popular titles like Lord of the Rings (23 units), Godzilla have high availability after previous scarcity (confidence: high) — Jason's live Pinside database review showing inventory levels and duration of listings - **[sentiment_shift]** Decline in collector confidence and purchasing appetite, especially for LE editions; shift from FOMO buying to value hesitation (confidence: high) — Jason discusses personal pause on LE purchases, criticism of Elvira LE strategy, reluctance to buy Rocketman at $12k, broader market pullback observations - **[product_strategy]** Stern reducing MSRP on recent premium titles (TMNT, Led Zeppelin to $7.5k) as market demand softens (confidence: high) — Jason notes specific games discounted at Flip N Out Pinball; implies deliberate manufacturer price adjustment - **[design_philosophy]** Player dissatisfaction with JJP's multiball-heavy rule design, despite attraction to their premium themes and spectacle (confidence: medium) — Jason's critique: 'the fear with Jersey Jack from uh even from Matrix...don't just do the multi-ball thing...it turns me off' - **[rumor_hype]** Community enthusiasm for unreleased themes: Star Wars (preferred designer Keith Elwin or Mark Ritchie), Superman, Tool, Blade, Deadpool as collector tier-1 purchases (confidence: medium) — Jason's detailed dream theme analysis and willingness to pay premium ($12-15k) for marquee licenses like Matrix/Star Wars - **[content_signal]** Gonzo's Pinball Flipperama gaining traction as high-quality pinball YouTube content; dream theme videos generating engagement (confidence: medium) — Jason recommends Gonzo as 'one of the good ones' with 'super enthusiastic great video quality'; references Gonzo's dream theme video series - **[industry_signal]** Tech industry downturn (Jason's sector) correlating with reduced discretionary spending on premium pinball, affecting both collectors and operators (confidence: medium) — Jason opens with work layoff context; connects economic malaise to pinball market softness; notes operator and collector caution - **[licensing_signal]** Possible Stern-Nintendo partnership or licensing deal suggested by Wii Mii music usage in official marketing (confidence: low) — Stern's Instagram video used copyrighted Nintendo Wii music; Stern acknowledged the music reference via like; speculative but unusual marketing choice - **[collector_signal]** Sellers unrealistic about market pricing; extended listing periods (8+ months) indicate disconnect between seller expectations and buyer willingness to pay (confidence: high) — Tron Pro relisted 8 times over 8 months at $10.5k; Jason's failed negotiation with Lord of the Rings seller asking $10k when market 'mid-8s low-9s'; inventory analysis --- ## Transcript All right. Well, it is Tuesday or Wednesday or Thursday or Friday, whenever you're listening to this. Hello, everyone. This is Jason from the Pinball Party Podcast. Welcome to another episode. Figure it out. Why am I recording today? Thank you for asking. I am simply avoiding shit at work. For any managers out there, leaders, anyone who has people that report to them, the job is easy when the market is great and sales are high and everyone's doing great. Happy, stocks, bonuses, raises. You want a promotion? Shit, yeah, you want one. It's easy, relatively speaking. When the market is hot trash, there's no headcount. Layoffs abound, full disclosure, in the tech industry. I work in technical sales, sales engineers. All right. The opposite is true. No promotions anywhere. There's no budget for travel. Everyone's friend at every other company is getting laid off. They're scared. Rightfully so. It's shitty in economic times, at least in the U.S. We see it in pinball as well, which we'll talk about soon. But, yeah, I'm avoiding basically someone on my team has a bad attitude, and they have for a while. and that is a difficult uh a difficult thing with hr i guess if anyone is aware of what a pip is a performance improvement plan them shits are much easier when say the person you know i don't know kill someone at work like oh okay you know per this pip i said in the next 30 days please don't kill anyone if you do there may be repercussions they kill someone you're fired it's pretty easy because in a public company or any company for that matter, wrongful termination, you want to make sure that if you're getting rid of someone, there is good reasons. And the bad attitude is such a tricky little subjective thing. So anyway, sorry to bore you, but that's what I'm doing. I should be writing down when I contact this person later this afternoon. I've done this a lot, but my talking points, because there's going to be an emotional outburst or a professional emotional outburst. outburst and I just don't want to deal with it. So here I am talking about pinball. Let's talk about pinball. For those first timers, welcome to the show. This is a place to basically let your guard down and talk about pinball. That's what we do here. We have adult language. So if you haven't noticed that by now, oops, spoiler warning in the past, my credentials as a pinball speaker or dog shit. I don't have any. I am in the hobby and I've been in it for a while and I buy and sell and trade games on the side for fun to fund my habit and oftentimes get stressed out with the games I have because they're super expensive and I move them on and I get games again because I miss them and I repeat and repeat and repeat. People on Pinside or Reddit anywhere, they give me shit. Oh, I can't believe you get that game again. Bolted. You're dumb. What the hell are you doing? So here I am. What are we going to talk about this week we're gonna go off the cuff per usual there's not a lot of news because last week we had kayla hernandez on from electric bat arcade and podcast go check that out and we talked about a lot of the expo stuff this week we'll talk about news question mark not a lot so what we're gonna do is more talk about some a couple rumors and then uh let's talk about dream themes a little more. We'll see where that takes us. I'm recording a little differently this time. Hopefully you can't tell, but I'm going to bring in some other audio on the fly instead of doing this later because I'm running out of time. Let's see what happens. So forgive me if anything sounds like trash. I will correct it in the future, but I doubt it will because I'm pretty good usually at audio. Let's start with rumors because those are fun. There was someone, let's call him Steve, and Steve, hello, you know who you are, reached out after Expo to me and gave me a little nugget and said, I don't know what to do with this information. I don't want to get anyone in trouble. I'm like, that's some juicy shit. You mind if I share? No. I'm like, all right, I'll call you Steve. So Steve, he was at Expo and he, well, what did he say? Well, he was in line i'll make this even more vague but i will get the facts correct he was at an expo and he was in line with people playing games the people playing games are creators of pinball games that work at stern and or jjp i won't say the names because yeah so he's playing a game and he heard them over talking like oh hey man what's up we're talking about games and just kind of you know day in day out stuff and one of them pointed to the shirt said yeah i'm deep working on this game right now um and steve saw this person's shirt and the person's shirt was wearing a super mario t-shirt so there's rumors abound right of everything and does mario make sense yeah that's all you know normally uh rumor grain grain of salt and again thanks steve for that tip for those not keeping up. A very strong rumor is someone who designs pinball machines in real life was telling someone else who designs pinball machines in real life, pointing at his shirt, the Mario shirt, that I am working on a Super Mario pinball machine. Let's stay probably at one of the most popular manufacturers, if not the most. Be vague, but come on. More credence to this, though. If you listened to last week, I think I talked about this. If not, forgive me. if I did, whatever, I'm going to say it again. On Stern's Instagram, they were playing an expo kind of commercial, like, hey, thanks for coming to expo. And they were using the Nintendo Wii menu music, and specifically the Mii Creator, the M-I-I, from the Nintendo Wii, for those who remember waggling sticks around playing bowling and golf. They were playing the Wii music. I used my pinball party Instagram account and said, oh, that's funny. I've never seen garbage eat garbage before. I didn't say that, but if anyone knows what that quote is from, please email in the pinball party podcast at gmail.com. It's one of my favorite movies, and it'll be from the dream theme soon. Again, that's funny. I've never seen garbage eat garbage before. It's a hilarious line because of who it comes from. anyway stern was making this video about expo and they were using the the me music and i said with my profile that's funny that sounds like the me music and that sounds like it is and stern just gave my post a thumbs up which whatever i i hate social media if i fucking social media is so terrible oh it's so bad but you know it's used for marketing and promoting of various things, including this podcast and their pinball machines. So let's take these two pieces together. Stern giving my thing a thumbs up. Yep, that is the Nintendo Mii music. And you're not going to just use Nintendo music copyrighted in your thing unless for some reason or like hint hint. I mean, maybe you won't, but... And then at Expo, someone saying, I'm working on a Mario game. Okay. So there's a little rumor. Another rumor, which is Well, you know, I can't. I won't say this one, but maybe in the future we'll get it on one of those. I'll say three things and one of these is right and this will be one of them. But lots of rumors abound from Expo and shortly after. and one of the rumors that uh is still very pervasive also transitions into dream theme so i just matrix the matrix pinball machine there's still rumors that um jjp has the matrix license and it's going to happen i think some of the more recent stuff stemmed from canada pinball podcast which he's been on the show before and if anyone knows kaneda hey man uh take that with a grain of salt because i don't know if sometimes he's just filling up the void with like hey i'm just going to say this because it gets clicks but he's a marketing guy so more power to you versus it's not the first time we've heard this and sometimes i may know or someone else may know if something's totally right so grain of salt not because he doesn't have inside info but just to say it but That is a son-of-a-bitch dream theme for many, many, many of us. And if Rocketman's flippers are any indication from the feedback we get that they've really nailed it, then I think they're in good hands. Because when I think Matrix, I think speed and precision, among other things. I think of technology and philosophy and badass movies, you know, all the stuff that obviously comes to mind. And Rage Against the Machine, but whatever. I want that to be a JJP game for sure, and I will happily pay $12,000 for a Matrix machine, possibly even $15,000. That's one of those, like, Lord of the Rings to me, where I'd be like, okay, I just have it and whatever. I'll lose the money forever because that's just really cool. Matrix, I think, would be an instant buy for anyone. Way over Elton John. My God, that's no joke. But speaking of Elton John, and I'll get back into the dream theme stuff in a second. Elton John just made me think of pricing and whatever. And I mentioned earlier about employees at work. Just things are tough. and whatever. Things are tough in the pinball market. So much to the fact that, I don't know if it's confirmed by any Stern person coming out and saying, oh yes, we've absolutely allowed this, but for those uninformed, specifically Led Zeppelin Premium and Turtles Premium, Sterns have been MSRP'd at $7,500 basically. So if you want one of those games for $1,500 less than a week ago, brand new, go hit up Flip N Out Pinball. If you're going to buy it somewhere else, don't just call up Zach and say, I'll give you the money. I not positive that they are matching the price But I mean come on Zach come on Right I mean right Yep Go there Pick up Venom which seems to be picking up some steam Speaking of picking up, the rules. I personally don't like Venom. So if you don't like my opinion, which awesome, then you should probably get Venom. I'm not a huge fan for what it's worth, but some games are cheap. Not just the secondary market. New in box. And it just makes sense. This is going to keep going down for sure by the end of the year. I don't have a crystal ball, Nostradamus, but if you look at just everything, I mean, if you have any indication of economics in the market, it's not really slowing down. If you look at how many games are for sale for pick a game, there is a whole fuckload of them. Previously, like, oh, there's nothing for sale of Elvira's House of Horrors or very few Lord of the Rings out there. Ooh, you got your pickings. Speaking of pickings on Lord of the Rings, for fans of the show who know, I have a very strong addiction to the Lord of the Rings pinball machine. If I don't have one, I want one. If I have one, I don't want one. It's a vicious cycle, and it sucks, and it's great. It's terrible. Whatever. So I'm always on the lookout for a Lord of the Rings machine, and there is a bunch on Pinside, which is a very popular game. It's called a shitload. But I bring this up because I was recently doing my rounds of, let me just get one to sit in the house again, because I still have no pinball machines. And it feels pretty good, but I kind of feel like I should have something to play if I'm going to keep talking about pinball or know what the hell's going on, aside from just being a troll on the internet and just lurking, what's out there? So I have this drive to get a game. So I'm looking at the Lord of the Rings games for sale, I have a very specific need for them, as in a playfield color, home use only, you know, and very low plays just because I want to baby it and all that stuff, whatever. That's what it is. But you see the market of Lord of the Rings out there, aside from how many there are, the price. Some people think that, oh, this one isn't affected by the economics. It doesn't matter. It's Lord of the Rings. Like, are you, guy, are you looking at the other listings? Do you know how stuff works? Demand, supply, any inclination? Nah, some don't. So if we look at, I have it pulled up in front of me, Pinside. We have 27 Lord of the Rings for sale. There's like three, four of these are wanted, so 23. 23 games for sale, Lord of the Rings. The lowest is 7,000. the highest this is the normal this is not le the highest is 11 and i know my lord of the rings very well from where the wear spots are the i can tell by the play field when it was printed i know what to look for you know the button wear on the sides you know that kind of stuff i know exactly what to look for um some of these prices are way fucked um and they've been sitting for months. You click on them. Here's an 11,000. How many times has that been relisted? Oh, fuck me, three times. That's a surprise. Do you want money? No. When the lowest is 7,000, the next lowest is 7,500. And then the next lowest is 8, OBO. So it's not like the 7 is some outlier. The 11 is. and you look at the recently sold and not like the actual like what's the average because that's stupid you look at what's actually been selling and like yeah it's selling like mid-8s low 9s if it has everything everything color dmd pin sound perfect condition all this anyway a guy had one listed for 11 and then he released it like four times three times then he had it down to 10 and it was a very it was my baby it was it was my type i was like yeah i'd buy that not for that price. So I reached out, I said, Hey, uh, tried to do my very best quickly. Like I'll basically like, I know what I'm talking about, but like, I'm not just like, Hey, I'll offer you 87. Cause like, and here's all the reasons, but I wasn't like a dad, my first off, he's like, Oh, I appreciate the offer, but I'll decline. And I was like, well, let me just give it a little more. I basically said, yo guy, uh, if you're willing to get a little closer to market value, I'd really, I I'm a motivated buyer. I'd love to just give you a bunch of money, but you're never going to sell this. And I didn't say that, but in so many words, like, you don't have this, you don't have that, you have wear on the little blue nub by the legless ramp, all these kinds of things that he's perfect condition. He's like, oh, I'm surprised you noticed that. I'm like, well, okay. You said it's mint, but it's not. What do you want me to do here? This is why it's not selling. Come on, man. And then he sent me a bunch of pictures. I was like, yeah, great. I'll buy it Right now, full disclosure, I offered nine. I was like, I'll give you nine, and that's like, you probably want to take that deal. Otherwise, I'll just go buy one somewhere else instantly. It's like, nope, I'm going to pass. I'm like, oh, good. Have fun sitting on that for a while. So anyway, pick a game that used to be somewhat hard to get, and you can find it probably at the price you want. Jurassic Park Premium, which during COVID, if you remember, you couldn't find one of those. You could find one like $12,000. It's $26,000 for sale. $8,000 OBO. That sucks. That game should be... Godzilla Premiums. How many we got for sale here? Another one that's readily available. $33,000. No surprise, because that game is clearly the most popular game out there, and so there is a lot on the market. That one is as low as a sale pending at $8,300 for home use only. So if anyone's new to this market or wants to move games and you're maybe just not well-versed in Craigslist, Facebook, eBay sales, which I've been doing for decades and a lot of us have, some people haven't. And more power to you because the Internet is a trash heap of desperate depression and stay away. some advice is like don't don't if you want to move it don't list it anywhere close to msrp right now take a thousand dollars off basically instantly if you want any hope um even what is another game that is usually hot to trot people like i'll pay anything and when it comes up um tron tron's another one tron pros i've had a very poor interaction with some of that in the past but um these things are just kind of dropping and sitting um oh i i don't know if you're a listener nothing against uh i want to say about this one for sale tron pro which is currently asking 10.5 obo um looks great it's the um the square cutout speakers not the circle so still wood backbox which whatever um i'd prefer the the slightly newer version like Iron Man vault type, if you will. But anyways, it's been relisted eight times. That has to be something. Eight times. Relisted eight times. Maybe your price is off. I mean, eight times. What is the, what is it? 30 days? I don't even know. I do this enough. Let's just say it's 30 days. How long it lasts. It's at least 30 days on pin side before it ends, just expires so then you relist it right so if something's relisted eight times minimum it's been sitting there for eight months eight months um it's sitting at 10 500 obo i think this used to be up at like 12 or 11 or so let's just say that well let me see what does this have powder coat yeah who cares uh not who cares but le lighted ramps okay it's got the ramps got the color dnb so it has what people would want this pre-covid was more at like high eights low nines we're we're beyond covid pricing we're we're we're past that um you have 15 people watching this ad it's been listed eight times and uh so let's say this sells at nine eventually so for eight months you could have had nine thousand dollars um to do tons of things with it go on vacation invested at an average of i won't get into that um my own kind of financial thing to do with money but it just i'm not sure what you're waiting for and so to some people i guess if you're a billionaire this doesn't matter and who cares but i mean if i'm this person devil's advocate i would be i mean i feel bad i'd be stressed out like i have a game listed for eight months imagine all the offers you're getting from clowns to people like me so maybe another clown or someone who knows what they're talking about knows the market is giving fair value yeah that's got to be stressful you got all these mods listed and i know i've been there when i've had games listed for a long time and they just don't sell that's kind of where it's at that's another reason i just don't have games right now i for a while it was like you want to sell a game you list it within a week it's gone easy peasy um the last couple i sold took like a month which you know uh doesn't feel great when these again ten thousand dollars roughly like that's what if you need money for something like oh this ain't liquid anyway the market's down fun fun fun right it's it's kind of shitty but so the hardcore market right now is keeping us afloat are either the newbies that kind of came in during covid like oh yeah let's just do this and do that or the hardcore but the hardcore are kind of now being met with like new in box prices from jersey jack or these new elvira le's like you're just fucking jamming us in the ass this i don't want to buy this stuff anymore if there was going to be anything i would buy it's like that jurassic park le was the closest i was like oh maybe but come on what this stuff is just dropping elvira buyers i'm sorry for what happened that is just that's fucked and stern like man it's not like stern you're well i guess you are a person very stern but i uh i don't think that's good habits um i'm uh selling an le and then a beyond le for elvira and then be like well let's wait a little bit and then hit you with another le that's arguably cooler for 13 000 uh so 13 000 is high for an le but compared to the 40th or whatever anniversary it's cheaper but i think better fuck dude that sucks and these are all the reasons why i'm just kind of not buying and i think a lot of people should not uh especially le like look at venom le right now out there uh It more from like a hey I feel you bro or like broette it does not feel good to lose three thousand dollars on a toy um when we buying into the fomo or the look at the marketing and all this and like pinball is doing great is it you know we get spoiled by listening to kale and rachel and fantastic arcade and they're doing killer stuff yeah um is it though um beyond that or you know everyone listening to this podcast i don't know i uh i'm taking a pause i'm kind of uh where i'm spending my money and that's why the lord of the rings offer was really just like i'll give you this you're probably not going to get it anyway um and i'm being kind of you should take this nah ah that sucks for you kind of um yeah so the rocket man although it looks awesome and i like elton john i mean just like a 12k that's a pass uh not gonna happen i i don't know that not gonna happen um yeah um yeah i all right enough of the negative stuff uh it's just it sucks out there sometimes uh and currently is is that sometimes dream themes mentioned matrix earlier and why i wanted to talk about it is because that that's where i would spend the money if matrix came out again like i would let's let's do it let's give you a bunch of money who cares this is stupid how about a new star wars that's like actually really good a star wars just star wars pinball machine made by Keith Elwin holy fuck me yeah just sell it you know list it do it um there's money harry potter done you know jaws will do it you know so those hoping for something cool soon that really turns us around to ship around if there's a pun for anything jaws will do it jaws it's gonna do it um so look forward to that um yeah it's going to be great what got me thinking of dream themes aside from the money and all that I am a large fan a huge fan of Gonzo's Pinball Flipperama on YouTube I think he has a podcast as well but I specifically watch it on YouTube all the time I check out his shit all the time he's super enthusiastic great video quality, audio quality he's one of the good ones go check it out, Gonzo's Pinball Flipperama flipperama i was watching him uh having some coffee earlier and he was talking about dream themes as well and i have it pulled up here and um let's just see where uh where was i at and this whole thing he was doing the same kind of exercise like what are dream themes and who would i want to make them let's see we got it and then what we'll do is we will do a return video on this and then we'll really see what everybody thinks are their dream things but i do want to steal luke's idea here not just dream theme who do you want to make it right now let me tell you for me to do this i've chosen four dream things four dream things uh so hey gonzo uh i'm not stealing your stuff i'm just using it to kind of talk about some of the stuff you're doing because i'm you know we're all kind of we're listening to podcasts we're somewhat like socially lonely to the pinball thing because it's not a huge market like video games and sports so uh honestly publicly if you don't want me to do this or anyone out there just kind of talking over some of this are using it, let me know. But just promote your stuff and talking about it at the same time. That I would choose. I might go with five. And side note, I like your opinions. First of all, would I like Star Wars done again? I would. Which company would I choose to do it? Well, it's going to surprise nobody. So what's he going to say? I think if someone did Star Wars to me, which is a dream theme of mine. Oh, it's like, Jersey Jack is kind of always the answer when it's like, you want the spectacle. But I would want... I would want Stern to do it, and I would... I mean, I say Keith Elwin, but honestly, I think Jack Danger. Because of the just... Yeah. Well, actually, I would like Steve Ritchie to redo it. Because, man, I love Star Trek, and I love... Yeah, gimme... Give me, hmm, before he says it, I want Stern to do it with, yeah, Keith Elwin. I want the whole team. Man, I want it to be where, like, everyone stop what you're doing. We're all going to work on this. Whole team. Everyone take your strengths, your best strengths. Get Ray Day in there, Jack, Elwin, Tanya, Gomez. just make a Star Wars game don't change the price just sell a little bigillion of them anyway let's see what Gonzo says about who you want I'm going to say probably my favourite and I've only made one game, my favourite pinball manufacturer at the moment is Dutch Pinball just because they pour so much love into it they've just done such a great job Dutch Pinball to make Star Wars the guys there would put so much love into it, there would be so many you wouldn't look at it and think i'm missing something r2d2 would be completely interactive there'd be a death star there'd be the x-wings there would be darth vader you just wouldn't look at it and think anything is right missing and yeah good point especially with dutch because yeah if you play a lebowski you're like yep they just everything everything is in there and to his to his point or to his defense i think jersey jack would do a similar thing the fear with jersey jack from uh even from matrix or that of like don't don't just do the multiball thing and i know people say that a lot but it's true it turns me off of ever all of them i've played except for wizard of oz and dialed in um i just it's not it's not don't do the rules like that make it I would want it very force-based, Jedi-based. I mean, like, progression. Use the stern progression system so you're training as a Jedi over time. As you get there, turn on features. So, like, magnets don't work until you're a Jedi, you know, because then you have the force, right, to move the ball around. And then when you're a Jedi, we could do, like, a Padawan, do a little bit, and then a Jedi a little more, and then a Jedi Master. You know, everything's a fucking magnet. Just wherever you want the ball, get out a trackpad and just move it with your finger. Seriously, do something like that. Make it where you can't deny where someone passing by at an arcade or a pleb, a muggle as Dennis may say, can't help but be like, holy shit. That's something where Venom, even a comic book fan, they'll come up and be like, wow, the art's awesome. and then like you flip it or whatever like okay yeah move moving on there's nothing impressive there not not that it's not impressive to make a pinball machine again i feel bad like saying it's not that but like you know you know like when you when you walk out to walk up to big lebowski or wizard of oz for the first time you think holy shit uh that is a more so even wizard of oz and that's like 10 years ago like what an evolution where's the next you know evolution it's not it's not ninja eclipse uh but you know yeah matrix in my head that that may do it but and uh hey look it's just something i would very much like to see yeah um my favorite band are the who for those well i'm sure you sort of know okay i've been watching videos for long enough there's enough who stuff around here my favorite album is quadrophenia it's an album that has a i know nothing about that but if it was favorite band i'm just gonna mimic off of what he's saying if favorite band theme for me uh tool easy peasy basically you could take the matrix and retheme it with tool and you're pretty close to the game anyways uh yeah make a tool game um and just make it for the like make that like an le charge 15 grand yeah that'll now don't actually don't i don't want to spend i will but i don't but if you did tool right and had the back glass just be like the enema album cover yep uh yep a lot of personal all together i don't care i really like marvel stuff but for me deadpool was an anti-hero i if i don't even know what that means but i think he's an anti-hero blade again yeah he was talking about blade being uh oh ah blade would be awesome to steal your uh just to bounce off what you're saying superhero and i mentioned earlier the Never seen garbage eat garbage before. Dream theme. Superman. Low hanging fruit. Aside from the license is probably not low hanging fruit. I've talked about this on a previous episode of what a Superman game would be like. I think if you want to listen to it, it's one of the first five episodes when they pre pinball network. Yeah. Scroll down. You'll see me talking about Superman. I went in depth on the Donner verse and Henry Cavill and all of it. But yeah, Superman. Shit. oh i can't believe we don't have that in my head my first thought of like if we took a pinball machine out there and just like did a quick re-theme of it it would be star trek stern star trek if you suddenly just made that superman maybe because i'm thinking the blue and the fast shots and it feels like the ball is flying everywhere yeah um superman just uh it's timeless it's every age right now knows who superman is um either the the oldies know who superman is just from growing up fleischer and then christopher reeves um it's superman so even that you know propagates into my generation um an 80s kid but then of course the henry cavill and uh everything the cartoon it's superman why am i i'm not i'm defending who superman is make a superman game what are you doing um put a big symbol in the back in the clouds he could all oh fuck i just want to hear it oh i want to hear it i want to see it um and copyright stuff i'm sorry i'm just gonna pull this up oh no i'm sorry oh it's too good. So when this gets taken down on YouTube, it's worth it though, right? It's so good. Are you serious? Yeah. Who doesn't want to play that pinball machine? Oh, God. Okay, I gotta stop it. No no no no no I not gonna Sorry can leave you hanging Just got to get at least one of them Skadoosh! Get fucking wrecked! Yeah. Oh my god. Right. Moving on. Just make it. Come on. Stop. Stop not making that game. I don't know. It's just something a lot cooler about Blade and Deadpool than there is, I don't know about the Hulk or Captain America. Oh, my goodness. Who else is there? Hulk. Hulk would destroy if he did it right. At least in the States. We have different, yeah. The States would fucking kill it. Iron Man was cool. The first Iron Man was cool. First Iron Man film by... Yeah, Stern. Vault Iron Man again. Yo, I want to buy one. Real bad. That game is exactly the right price for a pro. Fuck. I would buy one, use, but same thing. secondary market is people like mom 7500 for iron man seems right well nope so i mean kind of god that game's awesome yeah iron man um does it hold up though iron man not the game i mean the the ip 15 years since so 2008 was iron man which took the world by storm but i guess it held out until endgame of probably the most popular character. That's like in the pinball world, if you made a Harry Potter, or Matrix, or Superman, or a new Star Wars, just fucking money, printing money. The reverse is true in movies. If you just were like, you know what? Iron Man's coming back to the MCU. You fucking fixed it! Because the MCU is kind of just garbage right now. So if you brought back iron man you would of course lloyd just when i think you couldn't possibly be any dumber you go and do something like this and totally redeem yourself yeah so i mean iron man does of course have uh clout and um yeah bring it back so yeah robert downey jr that was cool he got boring i quite liked Hellboy as well. I don't think that's Marvel. But you get what I'm saying. I couldn't care less about half of these Marvel characters. There are too many of them. Thor? Forget it. Not interested at all. Blade? Yes. And who do I want to do Blade? Stern. I want it to be a Capel game as well. Oh, shit. I just think it would need to be fast, Stern. Remember the tune. You see, Blade would need to be fast. You know the start when you've got the bloodbath thing? I think you could do just a re-theme of Walking Dead, Blade-ish, and you'd be fine. Cool. Is there a better start to it? Rage Against the Machine. Can you hear that fan? I don't know if you can pick it up on the mic. So Luke, who started the thread, it's only fair that we go with two of his. First of all, Rage Against the Machine. I'm only going a world within a world within a world. He's talking about Luke's. I'm talking about his. It's getting weird. So yeah, World Within the World Within the World, Matrix, right? Yeah. There was a lot of negative comments. Rage Against the Machine, though. I love Rage Against the Machine. I shouldn't say I love. I do. No, I do. I really do. But we all like, oh, they're literally my favorite. The escalation of words and yeah. Anyway, it's Rage Against the Machine. It's great. Pinball Machine. Nah, it would be good in like just a, I don't know what you would call it, like a, call it like Ozfest. The Pinball Machine. where you have Rage, Primus, System of a Down. Marilyn Manson, some really good old school Marilyn Manson. For those out there, oh, Marilyn Manson. He used to have some really good stuff. Before he went crazy, like pre-mechanical animals. There is some good Marilyn Manson music. Yeah, you know, get Nine Inch Nails in there, get Ozzy. make a oz fest pinball machine for the people in the 90s who now are my age and like i want yeah i don't think raging against machine would put rage against machine in there for sure tool but i think tool could hang on its own from from any of that however we all want to describe that music from alternative grunge you can even fit in some punk in there however i mean Like Offspring Punk or Bad Religion. Well, that's not punk. You know what I mean? Let's not do that argument of that's not punk. Ramones isn't even punk. It's Black Flag. Okay. Rock from the 90s. Foo Fighters clearly was one of them that could hang. I think the only other couple that come to mind that I think could hang on their own of that level would be Green Day, Weezer, maybe Blink-182. but wow, that new Blink is terrible. Oh, God. It's real bad. Tom's back, but as a fan of some of their stuff, oh, don't listen to it. It's recorded like shit, just samples of, ah, it's just too clean. It's, not Blink, but it could probably hold up. Yeah, other 90s bands. I think an Oz Fest would be great, or a Warped Tour. in the back of my head when i thought of like oh if i was designing a pinball machine what would it be um it would be very similar to like a warp tour kind of thing but i don't want to say any more than that because just yeah uh that's when elton john came out about no music themes no more yeah compared to elton john pinballs i think you can i mean you can what i think they need to do is diversify the music type and Rage Against the Machine. Can you hear that fan? I don't know if you can pick it up on the mic. That's the fan in Deadpool. I must change it. I've got one somewhere. Yeah, Stern, come on. With those fans. Come on. Spike 3? Maybe? I'm looking for it at the moment. That's why I'm looking around. Changing those pin monk fans into that metal box is in there. It takes a lot longer than it should do. It's true. The look on his face, it's like you have to do it on some stuff, but it's just not hard enough, but it's a pain in the ass to get in that box all the screws out so it's just it's stupid just stern please i will pay the extra 15 to just change the fans um i'll donate 200 i'll just just like a one-time fee to like put me in some account that says i never have to do that again yeah i'll get it done at some point i probably should have done that before i switched this video on um so yeah rage against the machine i think that'd be a good one luke uh also luke mentioned a film which i love now i'm not sure this makes a great pinball machine and it's true grit uh great movie no way in hell that'll ever be in a pinball machine no offense luke if you're out there yeah i mean if if the world is infinite time and infinite money sure but never gonna happen that's a great film i'm not sure how that's working though luke i've got to say i'm not sure how it's working that's right but i like your taste in movies that's for sure uh chris who is i think fantasia uh is it fantasia fantasia 2 on the forum fifth element that is that would be some true yeah but it's too late if we would have yeah it's too late It holds up in the film aficionados, the cinemaphiles. Oh, did you check the projector with Fifth Element or the colors or all their hair? Yeah, but nah. We're past Fifth Element. Good artwork to be made. Matrix, yes. We're getting close on the Matrix, but nah. I think Matrix still has enough clout. Believe it or not, it's the closest thing to Star Wars in our generation when it came out. and, well, shit. We all know. Matrix. So good. Will it be made or not? I don't know. With a lot of this stuff, you have these... Alright, let's find out one more that they're... I love Quentin Tarantino films because of the dialogue. I'm skipping around a little bit. And then he goes back into the caravan. What do they call the trailer? I'm skipping around. Or the Beastie Boys themed pinball machine, hasn't there? It really has to. My friend John, J-Mac, and we've done very, very well in a competition recently. Well done, mate. I think the competition was at Tilt, quite possibly, which was put on by Gene, put the competition on at Tilt. John did really well in it. So, yeah, I'm really, really chuffed for him. I think John, like myself, would have liked a Dr. Dre one. Huh. Would have liked. Hmm. Like what? You don't think something from that is going to happen? Question mark? Winky face? I don't know. Yeah. I was when I mentioned earlier 90s stuff that would do it if you just make a straight up dog pound or uh yeah Dre what would you call it I forget the name um pen and a peg the goddamn label off what was his can't write with record label shit good thing I have the internet Dr. Dre record label they're all they're all like what no you fucking idiot what the fuck Aftermath Death Row Records um And if I had my pick, yeah, I would have basically a – I say dog pound even though it's – Dr. Dre, Eminem, Snoop Dogg, a little bit of Warren G, Regulators, Mount Up, Nate Dogg. Get them all in there. Get corrupt in there, corrupt motherfuckers. But I just want the Backglass to be the album of doggy style. Fuck, that would draw a crowd. Shit. Fantastic art. Yeah. I think of all the rap from that era either you're going like NWA which alright let's do it Beastie Boys nah people want Snoop they want Dre they want Eminem they as in me so I'm they as well yeah okay I have to run a meeting in a half hour and then I have to do that call oh god and I don't do my job well, but sometimes I have to do my job and today I have to do my job. So we'll continue this dream-themed thing later. Thanks, Gonzo, for letting me talk to you virtually and this is weird, huh? And Luke and whoever the hell that is. Hello. Listen to your stuff on the Pinball Party Podcast with Jason and the States. All right, I got to go. Thanks for tuning in, everyone. Talk to you soon. Goodbye. Bye. _(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_ --- *Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 73369303-3978-4f5c-8659-091294638d74*