# Episode 254: Ian Harrower, Gammagoat **Source:** Pinball Profile **Type:** podcast_episode **Published:** 2020-04-11 **Duration:** 30m 59s **Beat:** Pinball **URL:** https://www.pinballprofile.com/episode-254-ian-harrower-gammagoat/ --- ## Analysis Jeff Teolis interviews Ian Harrower (Gamma Goat), a competitive pinball player and early P3 platform adopter. They discuss Harrower's streaming setup and P3 games like Heist, his journey from juggling to pinball via Spider-Man, his involvement running multiple pinball leagues with modified coaching rules, and his philosophy on using privilege to amplify marginalized voices in the community. The conversation touches on game preferences, competitive tournament experiences, and their long friendship as frequent competitors. ### Key Claims - [HIGH] Heist is Multimorphic's best P3 game to date, superior to Lexi Lightspeed in playability — _Ian Harrower, discussing early impressions of new P3 module_ - [HIGH] P3 has unique mechanics unavailable on other platforms (e.g., P3 pass, polycarbonate flex) — _Harrower explaining why P3 is mechanically distinct from Bally/Williams/Stern platforms_ - [MEDIUM] Big Buck Hunter's Open Season is possibly the hardest wizard mode in pinball alongside Valinor and Super Duper Awesome Simpsons — _Discussion of Big Buck Hunter code issues and difficulty progression_ - [HIGH] Harrower came to pinball late (post-university, ~2014), transitioning from juggling hobby — _Personal biography, Spider-Man at work as entry point_ - [MEDIUM] Bar leagues can benefit from allowing coaching without compromising competitive integrity — _Harrower's league philosophy at Pin-Up Arcade Bar and City Pinball_ ### Notable Quotes > "It's mechanically really pinball. It's much better than the pinball arcade or Zen or those type of virtual pinballs." > — **Ian Harrower**, ~09:20 > _Advocates for P3 physical platform over digital alternatives_ > "I just like to point out things that other people are thinking already themselves, are feeling, and I want to acknowledge those thoughts. I want to acknowledge those feelings." > — **Ian Harrower**, ~52:00 > _Explains philosophy on using privilege to amplify marginalized voices in pinball community_ > "When I started playing pinball, it gave me that same reward, that same feeling that I got [from juggling]... this feels like juggling, but there's also like bells and whistles and points, and you can compete." > — **Ian Harrower**, ~30:00 > _Connects juggling skills to pinball gameplay and competitive appeal_ > "Open season is possibly the hardest wizard mode to get to in all of pinball... you need to get through all of those bonus rounds and all of those birds. And that's just really hard." > — **Ian Harrower**, ~45:00 > _Assessment of Big Buck Hunter code difficulty relative to industry_ > "I don't really feel like it mattered at the end of the day. You know, it's not going to make a big difference. People still have to execute." > — **Ian Harrower**, ~39:00 > _Rationale for allowing coaching in casual bar leagues_ ### Entities | Name | Type | Context | |------|------|---------| | Ian Harrower | person | Competitive pinball player, P3 platform advocate, streamer (Gamma Goat), league organizer in Ontario, speaker on this episode | | Jeff Teolis | person | Host of Pinball Profile podcast, frequent competitor against Harrower, founder of show | | Multimorphic | company | P3 platform manufacturer, referenced for Heist module and Lexi Lightspeed game | | Heist | game | New Multimorphic P3 module featuring crane mechanic and third flipper, praised by Harrower | | Lexi Lightspeed | game | First traditional P3 game, Harrower's machine at home, compared favorably to newer Heist | | Tri-City Pinball League | organization | Ontario-based league where Harrower and Teolis both play and serve on executive | | Pin-Up Arcade Bar | organization | Waterloo, Ontario bar/arcade where Harrower runs a casual league with coaching allowed | | City Pinball | organization | Guelph, Ontario pinball league run by Harrower | | Spider-Man | game | Stern game that introduced both Harrower and Teolis to modern pinball | | Big Buck Hunter | game | Discussed extensively for difficulty, code issues, and challenging Open Season wizard mode | | Bowen Kerins | person | Competitive player who defeated Harrower at NYC Pinball Championships Classics division | | Ghostbusters | game | Stern game owned by Harrower, praised for theme and code improvements | | Monsters Bash | game | Game referenced for competitive geometry and stacking mechanics (spot/grandpa) | | Iron Maiden | game | Harrower's machine, modified GI lighting for Fear of the Dark mode | | NYC Pinball Championships | event | Tournament where Harrower came second in Classics to Bowen | ### Topics - **Primary:** P3 Platform Adoption and Game Design, Streaming Pinball Content and Equipment, Competitive Pinball and Tournament Play, Casual Bar League Management and Rules - **Secondary:** Community Voice and Social Responsibility in Pinball, Individual Game Design and Code Quality - **Mentioned:** Personal Gaming Preferences and Disagreement ### Sentiment **Positive** (0.82) — Warm, celebratory interview between longtime friends with genuine respect and admiration. Some critical game commentary (frustration with Big Buck Hunter, Ghostbusters difficulty) balanced by appreciation for design and community contribution. Thoughtful discussion of social issues without hostility. ### Signals - **[community_signal]** Harrower's coaching rule modification in casual bar leagues to enhance new player retention and enjoyment (confidence: high) — Explicit policy change at Pin-Up Arcade Bar and City Pinball to allow coaching; Harrower advocates for other league operators to adopt similar rules - **[sentiment_shift]** P3 platform underperforming in adoption despite mechanical innovation and quality game releases (confidence: medium) — Harrower expresses confusion: 'I don't understand why people aren't excited by it... I don't understand why people aren't into P3' - **[competitive_signal]** Harrower selects Monsters Bash in league finals despite not enjoying casual play, driven by competitive comfort with geometry (confidence: high) — Strategic game selection based on competitive advantage (stacking mechanics, jackpot/multiplier decision-making) over personal enjoyment - **[design_philosophy]** Shift in Stern code revisit policy allowing designers to improve game balance post-release (confidence: medium) — Ghostbusters code improvements acknowledged as balancing difficulty; Harrower appreciated Stern allowing coders to refine games - **[design_innovation]** Age-related visibility challenges in dark tournament environments and LED-heavy lighting, addressed by specialized glasses (confidence: medium) — Both Harrower and Teolis wear special glasses to manage dark play and LED lighting; modified home lighting for streaming; switched Iron Maiden GI from red to warm white - **[product_concern]** Big Buck Hunter code reliability issues affecting gameplay consistency (elk, buck, bird mechanics) (confidence: medium) — Harrower notes Open Season is hardest wizard mode partly due to code bugs and inconsistent mechanics; suggests fixes would improve game - **[content_signal]** Proliferation of pinball streamers during pandemic period with evolving technical sophistication (confidence: medium) — Harrower evolved from single Logitech camera to multi-camera setup with Sony Handycam and score cameras; mentions ~20 concurrent streamers observed - **[technology_signal]** Harrower is early adopter and advocate for P3 platform, streaming content to promote adoption (confidence: high) — Owns P3 machines, streams Heist gameplay, expressed puzzlement why P3 adoption is slow despite mechanical advantages --- ## Transcript It's time now for another Pinball Profile. I'm your host, Jeff Teoles. You can find us on Facebook. We're also on Twitter at Pinball Profile. Same with Instagram at Pinball Profile. And we've even got a website. That's where you should be getting your RSS feeds and all your feeds because whatever you've been doing, it's all going to come to an end at the end of April. So go to pinballprofile.com, get your new feed, and find out past episodes that Podcast Garden somehow may disappear. How dare they? All the new ones are up there. All the old ones will be up there. So have a look again, pinballprofile.com. Joining me on the program, it looks on paper like he's my nemesis. He's far from that. He's a good friend. but he is the person I have played pinball against more than anybody else in the world. We're in a lot of leagues together. We live close by. And he joins us right now. You know him as Gamma Goat in Harrowar. Is that how you say your last name? Harrowar? Pretty close. Pretty close. You almost got that. It's an English word, harrow. Harrow. Like harrowing experience or to harrow, you know, harrow the soil. So Harrowar, one who harrows the soil. I love how everyone boots your name. It's one of my favorite things ever. Teal's isn't exactly easy either, but I guess I've said it enough that people kind of recognize it. But whenever I see somebody boot hair, it makes me crack up. How do you roll with it? You know, I'm used to it. It's been my entire life. People have always struggled with it. I don't really understand why. Although it's kind of funny because when I think about, like, how should it be pronounced? And, you know, if I listen on the Internet to people of Scottish origin saying my name, they would pronounce it differently than I do. So I don't know. You'd have to have asked my grandparents how they pronounce it. That's probably more accurate than how I pronounce it. It's easy, everybody. Let's say it with me. Ian Harrower. Got it? Ian Harrower. Ian Ian Harrower. There we go. Ian Ian Harrower. There you go. We've been watching you a little bit lately on stream. I mentioned Gamma Goat on Twitch. and recently you just streamed the new P3 game Heist. Got a lot of talk about it. I heard it on the Pinball Network. They were talking about you. You've been an early supporter of the P3 system and Multimorphic and Jerry. And I know every time I go to your house, it's my go-to game. I love playing Lexi Lightspeed. I'm looking forward to playing Heist. Your initial thoughts of the new game. I am really impressed with Heist. It's by far their best game for me as a pinball player. It's far superior to Lexi the way it shoots. It's got interesting shots. The rules seem well thought out. There's a lot to do. The progression is really interesting. I have my game set up very hard. So despite the fact that the play field, the geometry seems a little easy, but with the lower play field having all the posts removed, the game seems challenging enough. I haven't been able to make it through too deep into the game, so I haven't really started any of the heists. but I have been able to sort of complete parts of the modes, sort of each of the people I've been able to get through it. So it's a lot of fun, and I'm really looking forward to what that module can do. And hopefully this will get more people excited and into P3. I don't get it. I don't understand why people aren't excited by it. I know it's different, but it is still pinball. It's much better than the pinball arcade or Zen or those type of virtual pinballs. Not that there's anything wrong with those, but this mechanically is really pinball. It's funny you should say that. I want more people to get into this, and hopefully it will. I don't understand why people aren't into P3. Yeah, I think when you look at the collection of games that they put out, they've really only up to this point had the one traditional game, which is Lexi. And Lexi is an interesting game. It's a lot of fun. When you first flip it, there is a very different feel to the machine. Like, the flippers have a different feel than a Bally Williams does, than a Stern does, although all of those play differently, and classics play very differently. but with the flex of the polycarbonate around the inlanes you can do really interesting things like you can do what's called the p3 pass or what people call a p3 pass where you can actually flip early and the ball will just fly across from one side to the other passing it over and it's a skill you can't do on any other machine but just little differences like that make people kind of apprehensive when they first flip it that's a good point so that's something that's learned and I've seen you do it. You've taught it to me on Lexi. It's still pinball, and you mentioned that there are differences between Bally, Williams, Stern, Data East, all the different games. You tell me there isn't a difference when you have lightning flippers, or zipper flippers, or scissor flippers. I mean, this is just a new skill set to learn, and there's so much to do on it, especially now with Heist. Yeah, and Heist really, like that crane, the big advantage it gives over the other games that they have is that it really brings things down the play field. So that crane's able to give you an interactive toy that's coming way down close to your flippers. You can hit it. You can grab the ball. You can knock a ball off of it like mist. And so they've really extended where the game plays. And then there's the addition of the third flipper. So now that's actually ended up being a really interesting shot in the gameplay module because, like, I thought, oh, you can use this to hit the loop. There's not much to it. But it's actually remarkable that you can actually, like, hit the left ramp with that. You can shoot into all of the scoops. The kind of creative things that they've done with these little hurry-up modes, which they call side jobs, are just really cool. They use one of the wall, hold the ball, and then there's one mode that's just like blue suede shoes on Elvis. You know how it holds the ball on the magnet? But it uses the wall to hold the ball, drops it, and then you hit the loop and it catches it again, just like on Elvis. It's really cool. Third flipper, and I know everybody's talking about the crane. some bugs to work out as all new games have a few bugs here and there but that crane is really spectacular yeah it's really interesting to see how like it is able to extend a great distance it's got up down movement it's got left right movement it can hold a ball it's just really neat well thank you for streaming it again it was very early in the heist launch so to speak but i mean i I think you were the first non-P3 stakeholder, if you will, to stream it. So that was pretty exciting. Yeah. So Nicholas Baldridge got a very early game, and he streamed on his YouTube channel, which you can see it just under his name, Nicholas Baldridge. He's been developing his Quest for Glory game, and he streamed sort of the debut stream of the game when it first came out. And then Jerry streamed it on Deadflip a couple weeks ago, just sort of hosted on Jack's channel, but Jerry did the stream locally from his house. But hopefully we'll see more of these and more people start streaming them. I plan to get back on and streaming it more, and I hope people will come out, ask questions, and I'll show it off to the best of my ability. You've been streaming for a little while now on Gamma Goat. What got you into that, and I'm sure you're enjoying it, and what do you look forward to as you continue streaming? So I think really what got me into it was watching tournament streams. You know, I do really enjoy the competitive aspect of pinball. I got great opportunity to spend some time in the broadcasting booth at various tournaments. But I remember one at the Buffalo Pinball Summer Open, I think the first year that it went on, Kevin Manning decided to set up the stream for the Classics final. And he just, like, pulled out his laptop, pulled out some cameras. Ten minutes later there was a stream up and running of the finals with two commentators in the booth And I was like wow it incredible just how quickly he was able to do that and i watched like the production of things like what carl done at never drains in southern california and i was just like this is really cool i want to try it i want to see what it's like and i hadn't really spent a lot of time watching people stream and watched a lot of tournaments but it was kind of fun because it caused me to play my games a lot more than i normally do and the first few times it was really like i want to be streaming because if i do something really amazing i want it captured i want a record of it and i never had that before and so i found that a lot of fun what's your most favorite thing that you've streamed that you captured i think that like wizard modes are kind of like the big accomplishment in that defeating the beast the first time i did that on iron maiden was a lot of fun making it to end of the line on metallica was a big accomplishment, although I didn't manage to do it on the old code, only on the new code. But that was still cool. But then there's also just a lot of like, really, pinball is a physical game. And weird things happen. So like, I remember, I was playing one game, and I was in a multiball and two balls collided, and one of them flew up and landed right on the habit trail and came down the ramp. And I'm like, that's weird. And when you get like, I've done the airball into the cannon like the physical ball lock on iron maiden so it bypassed the shot and just air balled in there and that was really weird so capturing stuff like that on stream is fun as everyone's at home right now we're seeing more and more streamers and we're seeing some amazing things happen we're seeing carl pull out his hair try to complete open season on big buck hunter i watched robert ganyo on guardians do that incredible stack where he had that three billion shot. Yeah, when I just looked, like, just before you called me, I was looking, there's like 20 people streaming. There's been really an explosion as everyone's spending time at home right now. We talked about it on Final Round on the last episode, last couple of episodes. We had Phil Grimaldi and, of course, Martin Robbins is an expert with Melbourne Silverball, but talking about how easy it is to start streaming, whether you want to get into it deep or just have the basics. And you've evolved in streaming more and more since you first began, correct? Yeah, when I first started out, I just grabbed one Logitech C920 camera. You know, I just set up the one camera that could capture playfield and display. And I got myself a laptop and I just started trying it out. And that was fun. And you can get video recording, you can get streaming like that. And then I added a C922 so that I could, you know, get a better quality shot of a playfield, get it at 60 frames a second. Then I added a Sony Handycam to give a better playfield image, give a shot of myself and be able to do score cams. And then I slowly just started experimenting and trying more and more just because it's kind of fun to explore and to play with. Ian, as a man in his 40s, a lot of us in that age bracket or maybe a little bit older were playing pinball when we were kids. That wasn't the case with you. So this is kind of pretty new. Yeah, I really didn't get into this until I graduated. You know, I got my master's and I started in the workforce. Through my university years, I was very much into juggling. That was my hobby. I went actually very similar to what I did with pinball. I would travel around to juggling conventions, go to shows. I ran our juggling club at work. That was really my thing that I was dedicated to. I'd never really touched a pinball machine. Maybe as a kid, I flipped a few times, but it never really caught me. It was never really interesting. It wasn't until we got a pinball machine at work and we got a Stern Spider-Man, and I thought, hey, I'll give this a try. And there was someone at work who was pretty experienced with pinball, experienced, you know, I saw like, wow, you can do things like death saves. No, maybe that's not a great thing, but I'm like, wow, there's a lot you can do to manipulate this. And one of the things that I found really interesting in it was I kind of laxed a bit on my juggling, but when I started playing pinball, it gave me that same reward, that same feeling that I got. You know, there's a lot of shared skill with soft focus, with the ability to keep multiple things going on and pay attention to all of them. And it was like, this feels like juggling, but there's also like bells and whistles and points, and you can compete. And that really caught me. So I played Spider-Man for probably every day for like a year and got really good at that one machine. And then from there, I decided, you know, this is something I want to do. Bought a machine, joined leagues, and, well, the rest is history, as they say. That's so interesting. Spider-Man was the one that really got me back into pinball. I did play as a kid, but there were 15 years where I didn't do anything. I took the kids to Orlando, went to Disney, wherever we were staying. They had two pinball machines, ACDC and Spider-Man. And I was just in awe, like, wow, pinball's really come a long way since I played as a kid. But when you talk about your juggling background, a game like Spider-Man, even ACDC, where there are a lot of multiballs, you do need to juggle on the pinball play field a little bit. and I can see that's why you're so good at it. And I think it was at Buffalo Pinball Summer Open, and I remember seeing somebody else juggle. I believe it was Howard Dobson. Yeah, Howard is always wearing his International Juggling Association shirts when he's at the pinball tournament. So, yeah, he's a juggler as well. Interesting. You know, I relate my baseball background and maybe even drumming, too, to the hand-eye that comes into pinball, but it makes sense that you talk about juggling. That's interesting. When you went into it full-time, as you say, leagues and everything, You and I basically did it at the exact same time, kind of 2014-ish. Yeah, so my very first tournament, I had been kind of looking for a league. There was a local league, the Tri-Cities Pinball League, which I'd found some references to online, but I really couldn't figure out how to contact them. And then I saw a pinball tournament going on at the Total Man Show. And in Kitchener, Waterloo, this was a show they had like kickboxing, beer, and there was a pinball tournament. and I went there and it was two single day events, kind of a pump and dump thing organized by the Tri-City Pinball League and I was nearly in the money, but this kind of oldish redheaded guy on his last game of Indiana Jones put up the top score and just bumped me out of the money. I framed that check, by the way. I just want you to know if you ever want to have a look at what you could have had. Yeah, that was funny. I remember they had Back to the Future, that game. And I think there was a no good gopher. Not no good gophers. It was teed off. Teed off. And there was one other game. I can't remember. But it was kind of an, okay, that kind of got me into the tournament. So I was like, okay, this is interesting. But it was after that you did get into the Tri-City Pinball League, where you and I are both not only in the league now, we actually are part of the executive that run the league. And it's a fun league. So many great players. But leagues are, I think, really important to get that kind of passion for pinball. Yeah, Tri-City Pinball League. My first experience there, we went to a collector in Brampton, and that first league night, I think we played Stargazer. We played some older dot-league. I think we played Baywatch, Judge Dredd. And I was just like, you know, I put up the top game on Stargazer. I'm like, hey, this Stargazer game is pretty cool, not knowing that it's one of the rarest, most sought-after pinball machines that people have. And coming out of that league night, I was like, you know, you got to remember, I just spent like a year and a half playing Stern Spider-Man and nothing else. And at this point, I'd bought my Wizard of Oz. But then I'm like, huh, there's these older classics games as well. And they feel very different. I need to go buy a Gottlieb. And then like a week later I went and bought the first Gottlieb I found which was a System 1 Close Encounters of the Third Kind just so I could get the feel for those flippers And you know the collection starts to grow and grow from there You have a great collection now with a good mix of old and new and different companies, too. I know you're a big supporter of a lot of the different companies, so I like seeing that. That TCPL League you help run. You're also part of the London Ontario Pinball League, but there are a couple of other ones, too, that you run single-handedly. pin-up arcade bar which we've talked about here on this program in waterloo ontario at che kernu's place you run that league and you also run one called city pinball in guelph at another one of che's locations again certainly more casual but one of my favorite things you do at those leagues you certainly follow ifpa rules but you make one exception as you are allowed to do in leagues you allow coaching and i like that because i think it really benefits the newer players gets them more excited and, oh, I can do that. That helps my score. I think that's a really good thing you've done. Yeah, we, for a long time, I sort of said, ah, no coaching. When I looked at it, you know, people like you and I in those leagues, we don't need anyone to coach. We don't need someone to tell us what to do. I don't need someone explaining to me while I'm at the game what the rules are. Speak for yourself. I'll take it. But my, you know, you'd watch newer players who don't even know they have multiball lit. They don't even know that they have an opportunity to do something great. And a lot of them, they're used to hanging out with their friends and having their friends tell them what to do. And I didn't really feel like it mattered at the end of the day. You know, it's not going to make a big difference. People still have to execute. So I enjoyed actually opening it up and allowing for coaching in that league. And I'd recommend everyone who runs bar leagues considering modifying that rule for their own location, because at the end of the day, it's probably not going to compromise the integrity of who wins. It's going to come down of flipper skills. It's not like you have a sharp standing beside you explaining the rules to you at a high-end event people are concerned about. And I'll help anyone who's even my opponent in these games, because if they can execute better than me, then they deserve to win. I think whenever I play you in any league, it's always flip a coin. Never know who's going to win. I think we're very equal in so many different ways. We have a lot of similarities and a lot of polar opposite opinions. It doesn't matter. We're still friends, but I think of the similarities We both like to play in a lot of tournaments. We both like to travel. We both have the same concerns about lighting. And I'm going to post this great picture of us wearing these shades because when things get dark, it's impossible for me to play or conversely with crazy LED lighting. And you and I have worn special glasses to prevent those kind of LED lights. Yeah, it's been a struggle for me. I don't know when it started. it's obviously something to it comes with age i'm just having a lot harder time picking things up in the dark i play at home with a lot of lights and now that i stream all the time i have external lights like lighting up my play field entirely so i'm very used to that experience and a lot of the tournaments a lot of people's homes it's just really really tough and i think that there's something for the advantages of youth in this hobby but i'm all for trying to level things out and make sure that people can see. Even on my Iron Maiden, I switched out the red GI that they use when you go into Fear of the Dark and other modes to just some warm whites because dropping to the red, I just couldn't see anymore. We're the same that way, but as I mentioned, we have a few differences too. It's so funny when we talk about the games that we like, and I'm not going to get into any specific games because I certainly want to promote pinball, but we have some big differences, And I can't figure out when I say I like or dislike a game whether you will like it or not. But if I have to bet, it's always the opposite. Yeah, I think that there's a lot. I have very different opinions than many people. I am definitely a Stern-biased player. Because I started playing with modern Sterns, with Spider-Man, I don't have nostalgia for the 90s games. I don't look at Bally Williams as the pinnacle of what pinball can be. I look at it as, wow, these flippers aren't as snappy. I don't really like the way this works. And the rules all seem really shallow. And so I have a very different perspective on games from that. But even on modern games, we have a lot of different opinions and feel about what games are great and what games are tolerable. But, you know, I think that's what makes pinball fun. Everyone has a different opinion. I'll say this. As we mentioned Carl and Big Buck Hunter, I think one of the biggest reasons I stopped playing at one of the leagues is because I had to play Big Buck Hunter every other week. I was like, I'm done. I can't do it anymore. And I see Carl again going nuts trying to get open season. And it's not that I can't play well on it. I mean, we're talking match play or best score. I can put up good scores. I just don't have fun playing that game. I love Big Buck Hunter. I think that what's holding Big Buck Hunter back is actually just its code. It's got some issues with the mechanics, which you can fix, and you can make the game much more bulletproof. So getting the elk to work consistently, getting the buck to work consistently, getting the bird to not drain down the middle. But once you've taken care of those things, I actually think it's a great layout. Where the game struggles, and this is what Carl's running into, is open season is possibly the hardest wizard mode to get to in all of pinball. And yes, including things like Valinor and Super Duper Awesome Simpsons, whatever mode. You know, I think that just the sheer number of things you have to do in Buck and how boring they are to get some of those later ones, that's got to be the hardest wizard mode. World Poker Tour has a pretty tough one, too. Oh, yeah. Kiefer's done a lot of really interesting deep modes. But again, I think that, you know, you look at something like Simpsons, there's a lot you have to do to get there. But some of the really tedious things are left off. Like, I don't think you need Pretzel to get there. So Buck, you need to get through all of those bonus rounds and all of those birds. And that's just really hard. A lot of survival and a lot of hoping that the buck works since Carl has found some interesting things. I know you're a big lover of the monsters. I love the way the game shoots. I actually don't mind playing the game. I just, it's not for me. Ghostbusters, which you own, I curse every single time I have to play that game. But what am I missing? About Ghostbusters. About both of them. So monsters is an interesting game for me because I don't love playing monsters. like just for fun but i love it in competition it's a game i will pick first opportunity in our league finals and that just because i feel so comfortable in geometry there's some real nuances to the rules on monsters well there's one nuance to the rule which is how you stack spot and grandpa which a lot of people don't know about but that gives you a huge advantage if you can execute on that and it basically will guarantee that you'll get to monster madness so i like that game for some of the subtlety and some of the decision making about like how to use jackpots, how to use your multipliers. And so I think it's a good competition game, even though I don't really enjoy just stepping up and playing it. Ghostbusters, on the other hand, is just hard and fun. And it's a theme immersion that just gets me like I love it. And so I really enjoy the game. I bought it, you know, day one, and I still enjoy playing it today. It's a hugely popular game, especially on location to a great theme, beautiful to look at, just get frustrated by it. But the code certainly has gotten a lot better. That I appreciate. Yeah, I like that, you know, Stern has allowed their coders to revisit things I think that making the code a little easier on Ghostbusters has kind of balanced out the difficulty of the geometry with the gameplay to make it a little more possible to get deep into the game now. So that's another game that I have now mostly, I'll say, mostly made it to the Wizard mode on. I was actually like, I cheated. I didn't quite get through We're Ready to Believe You, but I've done it using the menu option now. The other big difference, too, is that I would say you are more brave than I am. And what we're talking about is you will take a cause, an opinion, and put it out there in the forefront. Whereas I know that if I offer an opinion on something, you're going to have people on both sides. Call me a chicken? Sure, whatever you want. Doesn't mean I don't have an opinion. It just means I'm not as public or as vocal about that. You once told me, I thought this was a great line, you studied pinball drama at the school of juilliard you've taken some heat in the past and you stand by your convictions and your opinions and offer you know a good point of view has that been difficult for you we see bow and karen's take up causes and i know he's taken some heat for it but he's quite proud that he has a voice that can be heard for those that maybe can't be heard and you're similar in that way yeah it's very much something that you know from various experiences I've had in my life, various trainings I've had, my experiences talking to my wife and that. I am very privileged. I am a white male. I'm quite well off. It's very easy for me to get by in life. When I look at the struggles that some people go through, I know that it's good for me to be able to use my privilege to help amplify their voices. I'm not trying to really pass judgment or any of that on the things that I try to get involved with. I just like to point out things that other people are thinking already themselves, are feeling, and I want to acknowledge those thoughts. I want to acknowledge those feelings. If you look at the threads I've most been involved in, there's often people within the community who are thanking for raising attention for what's going on, and there's a lot of toxic negativity in that, But that's part of what being able to use your own privileges. I'd rather people are attacking me and giving voice to people who are possibly uncomfortable sharing that than for them to have to speak out. I think what's important is never are we judging people. We're judging things that were said, but not the intentions of why people said that. It's really just acknowledging that people have feelings. People respond to words. Words are powerful and we should be careful about what we say. You know, I think one of the reasons I look forward to playing with you and talking with you and traveling with you and all these type of things is because I learn a lot from you, Ian. I think you're one of the smartest people I know when it comes to pinball and life in general for that matter. And you've taught me a lot of different things, too, a lot of ways that I've gone about maybe saying things or offering opinions. You know, my big default is I'm always trying to make somebody laugh. But you've got to really stop and think, okay, what's the other side of that laugh? and you've pulled me back a little bit and I appreciate that. And even on this program too, we're now coming into our, it'll be four years in November for Pinball Profile. You were there at the very beginning. And if you ever hear me ever talk about we at Pinball Profile or anything like that, I don't think of it as just me. I think of it as the person I'm talking to on the other end. And I think of people like you that really gave me some good guidance. And I would ask you suggestions about some guests and what are some topics that would be of interest to you that maybe I'm not thinking about. So you've always been a great friend in that way for me, and I appreciate that. But I'm wondering, what is your most proud pinball moment? It can be anything. Really, like, personal accomplishment, coming second at Classics at the New York City Pinball Championships to Bowen, probably is my sort of crowning moment right now. I would have liked to be able to put up a better fight there, but that's a really big accomplishment. that was, you know, it's a coming second to Bowen is, it's not a win, but it's as close as I can get. That's a pretty good feeling. That was a big one, too. And if I recall, there was the music in the background. I don't remember if the storm was singing Sean Grant or the knobs, but it was a different atmosphere that we're used to. And I found it fun. It's not for everyone, but you kind of knew what you were getting into when you went to the NYC PC. And I thought, yeah, you did very, very well there. Coming in second to Bowen, yeah, that's like a first. Yeah, I think that, you know, there's been other things and it's not all just play, you know, like really everyone talks about it. But I know way more people now through pinball. I've made lots of friends. There are people I enjoy talking to. There are people I have no idea who they are because they come into my chat room on my stream and there's some like obscure handle, which is either unpronounceable or some sort of a joke. And I don't even know who the people are on the other side. But at Pimberg, I had someone come up to me who I had never met, and they were like, hey, I watch your stream. And that was a really cool feeling. Nice. Well, Ian, I look forward to seeing you and all of our pinball friends, and we can catch you on GammaGoat on Twitch, and hopefully we get through all this. You know, you talked about NYCPC and your great finish there last year. As this was unfolding, as we're seeing throughout the world, you were the first person I knew that said, this is bigger than maybe we're thinking. You had canceled out NYCPC probably two weeks before and talking about the pressure that it puts on the health care staff and we have to flatten the curve. I mean, you knew this weeks before everyone else. And I thought, well, maybe that's a little chicken little how right you were and how we have all followed suit. So can you look in your crystal ball and tell us what's next? Are we going to get out of this thing? Well, we will get through this. You know, I can't take much. I can't take a lot of credit for my forecasting of what's going to come. You know, this is all coming to me from very, very brilliant operational people at my work who were looking at this much more than I was. you know i looked at my personal life and followed my work guidance and they were right not me unfortunately but i think that the bad thing with this situation is that everywhere was probably a couple weeks late in responding and we could have made things a lot better but it looks like at least in canada the social distancing is looks like it's helping bc is having very promising results right now hospital capacities are at a good place so there's good things coming out of this. The number of people streaming, cool things like Deadflip did that 20 person maiden stream last week. There's a lot of cool stuff going on. People are trying new things. We've got companies like Measel Mods making face shields. So good things will come out of this. We will get through this. We'll get back to pinball. You said it. Ian Ian Harrower, if he says it, it's got to be true. Ian, good to talk to you again, buddy. Hope to see you soon. Yeah, same to you, Jeff. This has been your pinball profile. You can find our group on Facebook, but go to pinballprofile.com. Get all your downloads, all the old shows, everything is right there. You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram at pinballprofile. Email us pinballprofile at gmail.com. I'm Jeff Teolas. _(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_ --- *Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 7defc742-8a61-4cb7-b835-619f129a4741*