# The Pinball Show Ep 158: Liquid Deception

**Source:** The Pinball Network  
**Type:** video  
**Published:** 2024-08-12  
**Duration:** 81m 39s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QmP50D3O6I

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## Analysis

Zach Sharpe and Dennis Cel discuss Stern Pinball's production updates (Jurassic Park, Godzilla 70th, Deadpool, and upcoming games), new speaker lighting accessories ($199), upcoming code updates across multiple titles, speculation about the next Stern cornerstone (possibly a Jack Danger game), and a detailed breakdown of the collapse of Hagus Pinball, which entered liquidation due to accepting payments for undelivered games and then removing equipment and online presence without communicating with creditors.

### Key Claims

- [MEDIUM] Stern Pinball is gearing up for a third cornerstone release in 2024, with rumors pointing to an August or September announcement — _Zach Sharpe and Dennis Cel speculating on production schedule based on recent limited runs ending and historical patterns_
- [LOW] The rumored next Stern game after the third cornerstone is a Jack Danger design — _Zach: 'the rumor and we'll talk about it here in a bit is a Jack Danger designed game but we'll have to wait and see'_
- [HIGH] Stern's speaker lighting system is priced at $199 and will be compatible with all Spike 2 games (Pros, Premiums, and LEs) — _Zach announcing official release with pricing and initial compatibility with Jaws LE, John Wick LE, Godzilla, and James Bond_
- [MEDIUM] Godzilla 70th Anniversary Edition and Jaws Premium are currently the two best-selling machines — _Zach and Dennis discussing sales performance and dealer demand patterns_
- [HIGH] Hagus Pinball accepted full payments from customers for games that were never delivered and cleared all online presence and equipment before creditors could recover funds — _Zach describing liquidation process, equipment removal prior to announcement, and lack of creditor communication_
- [HIGH] John Wick pinball received a major code update (v1.86) adding location modes, location-based adversary battles, and daily random gameplay seeds — _Zach announcing new code features with detailed explanations_
- [MEDIUM] Pinball market sentiment is declining with general malaise and lack of excitement, with no major releases since Jaws six to seven months prior — _Dennis: 'I have never felt this I've never observed this level of general malaise and lack of excitement' and discussion of collector concerns about depreciation and code depth_
- [MEDIUM] Clear-coated playfields and code depth that most casual players cannot complete have made the industry self-limiting in new game sales — _Zach and Dennis discussing Pat Lawlor's points about Diamond coating and current code complexity barriers_

### Notable Quotes

> "pinball it ain't hot right now... I have never felt this I've never observed this level of general malaise and lack of excitement"
> — **Dennis Cel**, ~mid-episode during market discussion
> _Candid assessment of market downturn and collector sentiment shift_

> "what you've created your own recipe for not being able to sell new games to people"
> — **Zach Sharpe**, ~mid-episode during code depth discussion
> _Critical analysis of how clear coats and deep code are limiting sales appeal_

> "I would have a hard time believing that not to be true... there were significant levels of deception"
> — **Zach Sharpe**, ~Hagus Pinball segment
> _Direct assessment that Hagus management knowingly deceived customers while accepting payments_

> "they just they've cleared all online presence videos gone everything's gone it bad it real bad"
> — **Dennis Cel**, ~Hagus liquidation discussion
> _Describes suspicious pre-liquidation behavior and disappearance of company records_

> "they keep reupping those endorphins uh that dopamine level by giving you trickles of new experiences with code updates"
> — **Zach Sharpe**, ~code update discussion
> _Describes Stern's strategy of post-sale engagement through ongoing content_

> "they're selling very very well uh as well as Deadpool Pros it's that time of the year it's the it's Marvel Madness right now"
> — **Dennis Cel**, ~early Stern production update
> _Notes Deadpool's timeliness with movie release driving sales_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Zach Sharpe | person | Co-host of The Pinball Show, operates Flipping Out Pinball, industry media personality, lost significant funds in Hagus Pinball deal |
| Dennis Cel | person | Co-host of The Pinball Show, analyst of production schedules and market trends |
| Stern Pinball | company | Major manufacturer with active production of Jurassic Park, Godzilla 70th, Deadpool, James Bond, John Wick; launching speaker lighting accessories; rumored third cornerstone for 2024 |
| Hagus Pinball | company | Australian pinball manufacturer that collapsed and entered liquidation; accepted customer payments for undelivered games, removed equipment and online presence without communicating with creditors |
| Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Competitor to Stern, speculated to be close to launch with Harry Potter game; discussed as racing Stern for market timing |
| Jack Danger | person | Pinball designer, rumored to be designing the next Stern cornerstone |
| Gary Stern | person | Leadership at Stern Pinball, benefited from Keanu Reeves Comic-Con appearance playing John Wick pinball |
| Damian | person | Founder/ownership of Hagus Pinball, responsible for deceptive practices and liquidation |
| Pat Lawlor | person | Legendary pinball designer whose past comments about Diamond coating and industry decisions are referenced as prescient regarding current market issues |
| American Pinball | company | Manufacturer with Cuphead game in development, discussed as entering the race to launch |
| Spooky Pinball | company | Manufacturer mentioned in context of competitive landscape and release timing |
| Multimorphic | company | Referenced indirectly through Jerry's apparent response to space concerns and code depth discussion |
| Flipping Out Pinball | company | Zach Sharpe's business; lost $61,000 from Hagus Pinball bad business deal; carries inventory of Stern accessories |
| Keanu Reeves | person | Actor who played John Wick pinball at Comic-Con, providing publicity for Stern Pinball |
| Doug | person | Operator of speaker light kits aftermarket business, surprised by Stern's competitive $199 pricing |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Stern Pinball production schedule and cornerstone releases, Hagus Pinball collapse and liquidation, Code updates and post-launch content strategy, Speaker lighting accessories and mod standardization, Market malaise and collector sentiment decline
- **Secondary:** Code depth and accessibility barriers for casual players, Deadpool and Marvel IP timing with movie releases, Manufacturer competitive timing and release scheduling

### Sentiment

**Mixed** (0.35) — Episode balances positive news about Stern's accessories and code updates against significant negative sentiment about Hagus Pinball's fraudulent collapse, market malaise, and structural issues with game design that limit new sales. Tone is critical but not hostile; hosts are frustrated with industry trends rather than specific individuals (except Hagus management).

### Signals

- **[manufacturing_signal]** Stern planning third cornerstone release of 2024 with August/September launch rumored, ramping up production while wrapping limited runs of existing titles (confidence: medium) — Zach and Dennis noting pattern of limited runs ending and discussing September/October production timeline for September announcement
- **[product_strategy]** Stern launching $199 speaker lighting kit as standard aftermarket upgrade compatible with all Spike 2 games, following successful LE integration (confidence: high) — Official announcement with pricing, compatibility list (Jaws, John Wick, Godzilla, James Bond coded), and positive reception noted
- **[code_update]** John Wick v1.86 introduces location modes, randomized daily seeds, new achievements, and major balancing—described as 'big one' with continued expansion planned (confidence: high) — Zach detailing new gameplay mechanics including adversary battles, daily seed randomization, and location achievements
- **[sentiment_shift]** Hosts report unprecedented level of general lack of excitement in market, no major release in 6-7 months (since Jaws), collectors evaluating depreciation risk (confidence: high) — Dennis: 'I have never felt this I've never observed this level of general malaise and lack of excitement'
- **[regulatory_signal]** Hagus Pinball entered liquidation with creditor list; equipment removed from factory prior to liquidation announcement; full online presence cleared (confidence: high) — Zach describing vans loading equipment, zero communication with creditors, complete digital erasure before liquidation process began
- **[business_signal]** Hagus Pinball accepted full customer payments for undelivered games while known to be insolvent; described as significant deception rather than mere overextension (confidence: high) — Zach: 'I would have a hard time believing that not to be true... there were significant levels of deception'
- **[design_philosophy]** Industry practice of clear-coating playfields (Diamond coat era) combined with deep code has created self-limiting scenario for new game sales; games last forever but are too difficult to complete (confidence: medium) — Zach and Dennis discussing Pat Lawlor's point about Diamond coating and current clear coat + code depth creating barriers to new purchases
- **[market_signal]** Collectors now evaluating new game purchases against expected depreciation losses, space concerns, and inability to complete games due to code depth (confidence: medium) — Dennis: 'collectors are going in going okay well how many thousand am I going to lose on the next game'
- **[licensing_signal]** Stern's Marvel relationship and rapid code update capability allow timely Deadpool updates tied to new film release, creating competitive advantage in IP relevance (confidence: high) — Zach noting Deadpool v1.11 added Berserker mode tied to Deadpool-Wolverine film, contrasting this with difficulty other manufacturers face in staying current
- **[competitive_signal]** Hosts debate whether JJP and American Pinball actively plan releases around Stern's schedule; consensus that manufacturers should but may not coordinate timing strategically (confidence: medium) — Zach and Dennis discussing whether JJP will lag Stern's release or launch simultaneously with Harry Potter, noting this is bad time for market saturation
- **[event_signal]** Keanu Reeves played John Wick pinball at Comic-Con, providing significant promotional value to Stern; hosts note other manufacturers likely envious (confidence: high) — Zach noting Gary Stern still benefiting from coverage and comparing to what other manufacturers would need to match (legacy actors for Harry Potter, cosplayers for Cuphead)
- **[content_signal]** Pinball Show expanding exclusive member content with detailed game release schedule covering August-June covering all manufacturers' projected releases (confidence: high) — Zach announcing exclusive patreon episode building tentative release calendar for followers, noting it will be 'eye opening'

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## Transcript

warning The Following episode contains adult language and screaming goats listener discretion is advised this week on the pinball show Dennis and I give you updates to stern Pinball's production schedule what's coming next from the industry leader new products and new code the fall of a pinball manufacturer pure intentions versus Insidious deception Chicago gaming company updates and Alice teas additional industry news and pinball Market friend official pinball show club members get the gold this week as Dennis and I build a tentative game release schedule for the following year when will manufacturers release what will they release and how many games are coming out in total it is eye opening and certainly something that you do not want to miss pinball is a game of skill dear beloved for some it's a passion and a lifestyle a day to get through this thing called it's time for the pinball [Music] personality hey everybody it's the pinball Show episode 158 with your host Zach Minnie and Dennis Cel Dennis how are you doing today my friend I'm doing pretty good Zach you're back from your vacation you sound raring to go oh I not that I I didn't get sick I assure you that I I'm not hacking up stuff I haven't been sick I never warn about why I will never be on one of those floating Nova virus containers most bad stuff such a fantastic time on the trip I feel refreshed rejuvenated so much so that I want to jump right into it you ready D let's do it Zach Stern Pinball in the news this week we always do it here at the pinball show we give production updates and over the last couple of weeks listener Jurassic Park premiums have been made over at the stern Factory in El grve or they still know yeah they they yeah the new place is still kind of near the old place I think that's right we still need to visit up there you know I don't know I never get invited on tours or tours as we say in the midwest that's right uh then we got a lot of Godzilla 70ths that were released a lot of those have shipped wow they're selling very very well uh as well as Deadpool Pros it's that time of the year it's the it's Marvel Madness right now the new Deadpool movie have you seen it I have not seen it oh well if you like rated superhero movies then let me tell you that's the movie for you if you like fourth wall breaking uh Shenanigans it's very much the movie for you I have to check it out it was premiering on uh the Disney wish Antonio Cruz Line ship I was on last week but and coincidentally enough is that what it's called I'm sorry yes it I'm just thinking he went on the wish.com of no I didn't I I had a had a Balon Dennis a balcony room most of them are balcony room but anyway uh I think it's a veranda this year's the treasure how about that I'm getting your ass on a Antonio Cruz n but they were the first time they've aired an R-rated film on a Disney Antonio Cruz line but I didn't get a chance to check it up so so you didn't even experience it you want to be at the opening of an amusement park to be the first but you won't be the first for an R-rated Disney movie yeah I'm still on a Cru I'm still working on you know I don't understand you sometimes the next couple of weeks over at Stern Pinball there's going to be we're going to see some small limited runs of James Bond Pro John Wick Pro Mandalorian Pro and premium all of them being the last planned runs of 2024 for these respective titles sounds like they're gearing up for doing some new stuff it certainly does it's almost as if my August Cornerstone prediction is really heating up you know what Stern it's Dennis here uh oh I need you to slow walk this into the very first day of September you g you gave me a win at you know six months ago and I feel like I'm I'm asking for a lot but but I'm not because it means Zach would be wrong and I think you all would like him to be wrong as well as I so we're we're we're we're in alignment here they're going to build them in September I'll give you that but I think that announ just hold the announcement then too it feels it feels like it's heating up to me Dennis and listener I don't know if you've heard some of the news sources out there but a lot of people referencing maybe an August Cornerstone not that they've attached their names to it but there's a lot of references to the potential for a new August Cornerstone the rumor and we'll talk about it here in a bit is a jack danger designed game but we'll have to wait and see September comes along and we're still going to get that re-entry of Rush Pro and premium coming September October there's probably something else September mostly Cornerstone October we're going to get Jurassic Park Pro likely continued Cornerstone production as well and then I don't know what else maybe we'll talk about that here in a bit um as to what else is coming from stur pinball and when but I've got another prediction Dennis okay they keep claiming that Godzilla 70th that's what we're producing that's what we're shipping uh the original version the color version of the premium we're not going to make those again until 2025 probably q1 of 2025 my prediction is that Stern does not wait until 2025 to produce more of those original Godzilla premium games I think uh I think they'll hold out till November maybe maybe November um you know normally I would agree that this would be a strong prediction it is a strong prediction but I'm going to disagree with it I I do think that the demand is high enough for the black and white 70th Anniversary Edition that they'll go ahead and hold until January until January well my my thought is they're selling so well that I to my knowledge they're not going to go on the line they have no reason to put them on the line again until next year um and we're pretty much through all of ours so we're going to get to a point again where there's not going to be any Godzilla premiums available whether it's black and white or color so push comes shove with that factored in you know I'm probably wrong yeah I hear they like it it's like if dealers all ran out of jaw's premium they'd be building jaw's premium those are the two hotness right now that's just it's where it's at so that brings up a bigger question for our listeners here Dennis and I I'll pose it to you when it comes to St pinball what is next we have heard uh a smattering of is that even a word yeah yeah smatter a smattering of different rumored titles coming up uh are we going to see a Metallica are we going to see X-Men 97 those are kind of the the two that people think may be happening here soon but then I've heard additional rumors that said no it's not Xmen 97 um or Metallica is coming but it's later so I don't know what to believe I don't know what's coming next if it is something Marvel based have such a close relationship with Marvel if it is Marvel based and it's not X-Men 997 what else could it be what else is really hot right now in Marvel Universe land well Deadpool is hot right now Deadpool is hot right now but do you think they would have a Deadpool Wolverine pin uh no I do not I think it's too soon for it too I don't think they would do a Stalone Wolverine pin um could you imagine if they did like Remember The Spider-Man Vault where they went and they did the whole comic Spider-Man is instead of the movie if they had they said all right we're we're redoing we're it's the same Deadpool game but you know what uh it's now the Ryan Reynolds version oh oh now that's interesting so you're saying same layout you're saying uh in an Ideal World they would throw in the movie clips that's what people really want right but Toby Maguire it second but if you wanted to super cheap out Stern what you could do is you could keep the same display stuff every about the game is the same except you go ahead and you have Ryan do the call outs as Deadpool instead of video game Deadpool I yeah I don't think it happens just no I don't either just but you're asking me what else could it be that was heard Marvel speaking of spider what about another Spider-Man game into the spiderverse like that's a hot Marvel property it is it is but I think Stern sits there and goes well but that's not playing on Nostalgia it's a kid it's cartoon they still have more films planned I'm just thinking with Marvel what's I think it would be very very good but they might already be we're kind of did that with Venom like you played the different symbiotes aren't we now just doing the different spiderm I I think they're like let's not touch that idea again ever if if it was what about Loki I thought Loki may be strong sure because I could see Jack danger doing a Loki kind of thing but but only if it's got Tom hson like that's one of those where we don't want the comic Loki we want the we want the Charming Marvel movies yeah I think they're learning that but the problem is after season two of Loki they kind of What's Done H there's there's rumors they could go season 3 but it wouldn't be for a while especially with the King Dynasty dying off and all that stuff they kind of put themselves in a corner oh maybe it's a King Dynasty pin like well what do we do with this now Jonathan major is like yes finally I'm back I'm back NOP sit down sit down no I don't I just thinking of an thinking of a Marvel theme that's hot right now is tough for me because all the hotness is coming from the upcoming stuff that Stern wouldn't be doing currently the doct Doom stuff the new Avengers Secret Wars that's and that's all very speculative Marvel's uh performance especially on their TV Disney Plus shows is really really really suffering right now exactly and I just I don't know what's hot enough right now the only thing out currently that is hot enough is Deadpool and Wolverine the only hot thing out of Marvel I thought maybe Doctor Strange if they pull him into it's a little dated I think you could do it just like you could do a Captain America themed pen it's Chris Evans Chris Evans is gone so I don't he is but again the pinball machine doesn't have to be timely look at jaws yeah so I even if it's not Marvel Bas I just I have no clue what's next but I am starting to hear some things I'm starting to hear this next game that Stern's coming out with is pretty impressive it's pretty impressive to shoot so they say that about all the games H they don't they really don't but we'll see but raises the bigger question the race to launch we know Stern is gearing up for their third Cornerstone release of the year which just sounds crazy uh we know jjp is close which one which one launches first jjp or Stern I think Stern I do too okay do you think jjp then wants to lag behind quite a bit to space it out or do you think they're fighting to get out there as soon as possible too because then we got American pinball question mark at some point cuphead um you know I I've often thought we as as hobbyists enthusiasts buyers sellers think that they factor in when the other companies are releasing things but I'm not sure as manufacturers that they actually do I think it would make sense if they would but I'm not sure that they do uh I think it would behoove well gosh see here's the problem because I don't know what the stern game is so if the stern game is X-Men 97 then I think jjp should just say we don't care if we come out at the same time or not CU nobody cares about that license I don't think that's true I think there are people who care about that license but I think like in the world of strong themes okay going back to what you were saying about you don't think manufacturers really pay attention to the release date of other no I think they pay attention I don't think they plan their release schedule around it I think in this market they have to well that's why I said that I think they should yeah they they this is I know for fact that they do like there are so many pins coming out this is a bad time to be releasing this many pins what I'm I've heard you and everybody else say it for four years well look Zach here's here's the thing and I you know I don't know it may just be meet I got I got fact in I got to factor in my own my own biases and such um but pinball it ain't hot right now and sure it is I have never f felt this I've never observed this level of General malaise and lack of excitement what's the last big release we've had well it depends on what you count I mean some people might say jaws was a big release but six seven months ago so there you go jaw yeah so we got six months of just yeah I know but it's just different now that all the all these collectors are going in going okay well how many thousand am I going to lose on the next game so they're evaluating buying that true plus as you and and Greg bone with all your B pluses know it's not like the games that they've got in their collections all of a sudden got bad so they're weighing all of this against you know that they're going to lose more uh money than they used to on selling a game and what their space concerns are and a lot of quite frankly people aren't finishing the games anymore because the code's so deep so yeah it's like well to finish these codes Well yeah if you even can so it you know there's just a lot like it reminds me of the pat Lawler discussion you know I don't remember which interview it was where he pointed out you know one of the biggest arguably mistakes that we made as an industry was uh putting Diamond coat on these pens because they started to last forever and people just kept them operators just kept them got love Diamond plates and now here we are with our super clear coed pinbal playfields along with code depth that the average player cannot get all the way through without turning on settings to 10 ball and all the the rest of it and even then maybe not and it's like you've created your own recipe for not being able to sell new games to people this isn't video games people see if it was 60 to you know $700 a pop it a totally different story that's disposable income it's disposable income with yeah no real space concerns no one cares if they lose all their money on a video game because it's so cheap I I just pictured Jerry from multimorphic back in the corner maniacally nodding his head slowly yes yes space concerns why don't we do this Dennis I want to give these people even more to chew on when it comes to the next upcoming releases from all of these manufacturers so exclusively as a pinball show member Dennis and I are going to build a game release schedule that will cover August September October November December January February March April May June oh my so over the next I don't know year or so we're going to hypothetically look at what games could be coming out which month what they could be we're going to dive into all of that it's going to be a it's going to be hell of a lot of fun and hopefully I can uh not give away too much of what I do know and uh hopefully I can predict things that I don't know for sure so if you're a member you can go listen to that and if you're not please help support the pinball show by going to patreon.com SL the pinball show signing up today as an official member it's only 10 bucks a month you get not only exclusive content that you're going to be hearing more and more of from the pinball show but you get private is Discord conversations right now our Discord Jes you have like this is your fault because you chose to take a conversation and put it in as a patreon episode know I know but it's about watches and now hey look at me I'm the Discord captain now oh God where's cap where's our where's our uh Captain what was the name of that movie Captain Phillips Captain Phils see I want to say Captain Ron but that's the one with I'm Captain Ron that's awesome so yeah he said he said he said gorillas not gorillas gorillas Captain so I want to build you guys a a game release schedule and I think many of you will be very surprised at how many new games that we're going toce ceive between now and this time next year let's go through each one of them with you right now continuing our Stern Pinball coverage they did something big this last week and of course I was on vacation when they did it it it is like well you're always on vacations I take like two vacations a year it is what you take three after that hag is debacle I won't be that was two vacations Worth right there uh but Stern Pinball recently they they've announced it already but it's finally in production finally shipping what they're calling the expression speaker lighting system this is really cool do have you have you seen what this is on you've probably seen what this is on the Jaws Le and the John Wick Le which come factory come standard yes yes so it's the speaker lighting that everyone loves like the mod that everyone loves they it it is interactive it is communicative it's a way of the creators presenting information uh in speaker lighting too it's integrated into the immersion as well it's freaking spectacular for example on Jaws the informative nature of this lighting is it will show you around a circle um every time you hit it the chum will build up and you'll get more blood around the circle so you can just glance up and boom it's a visual representation so it's giving you information whereas on John Wick an example of immersion would be muzzle blasting whenever the guns poof bof bof it flashes uh reactionary on those speaker lighting so it's just another way of pulling in uh into the immersive experience of pinball which nearly nothing else in gaming can except for VR but that's a whole another patreon conversation so now those came standard on those two Le models but now ster and pinball said I want people to be able to put on all their Spike 2 games all their Pros all their premiums all their Ellies every damn Spike 2 game we want this immersion uh we want this this speaker Lighting on everything so they're shipping now and honestly uh pretty freaking good price too any guess as to what these cost 50 bucks tennis $50 oh sorry I thought you were asking me what I wish do they cost okay $199 that's not that's not bad no it's now people are going to be like for LED strip I that's right that's my you hear my voice deep inside your head I but even like Doug at speaker light kits even he was like you know what I'm kind of impressed with the pricing uh because it the like building the metal brackets and stuff I'm surprised ER didn't charge more for these so I didn't think it was horrible uh I think this is going to be another mod that quickly surpasses a lot of their standard accessories that they offer right now I think these sell a hell of a lot more than armor I think these sell more than shooter rods I think these are up there and maybe not up in the realm of like how many Shaker Motors sell uh but they're right up there with Toppers like everybody's going to want these speaker lights uh for their for their games and I was also surprised that when they launched these they're compatible not only with John Wick and Jaws but they've coded them so far for Godzilla and James Bond as well so that's pretty cool uh the really kind of tricky part though is that some people like myself my premiums I already up upgraded that 5 and A4 inch LE Kenwood style speaker and those those uh so that's not going to work no your your games are basically worthless and dead to everyone now so but they're going to come out with an Le speaker style kit coming soon but then other people were like no they'll still work they won't look at I don't know I'm confused about all of it but nonetheless these things are selling very very well I I assumed they would uh so this exciting release and launch for sterm pinball accessories congratulations to the team over there for job well done and feedback thus far has been very positive with the uh with the build of these things and install and everything so very cool we're still waiting for Venom accessories John Wick access accessies in Godzilla 70th black and white accessories to be announced and shipped speaking of accessories Dennis I'll shill away here uh we've got the following back in stock at flipping out pinball Stern Shaker motor stranger things armor been out of that for quite a bit Jaws armor jaw's interior art blades Stern bar stools and Stern dust SLG glass covers yay this last uh a couple weeks ago did you see a ComiCon a couple weeks ago ke Reeves playing John Wick yes I did wow I I think Gary Stern still has a Woody from being able to get that coverage wow I thought for sure Stern would post this video every day for a month how lucky who set that up maybe he just randomly did it oh yeah he's just randomly walking through the crowd whoa look at this I'm on a machine what a fantastic I am a pinball player every other manufacturer was so so jealous when they saw they like [ __ ] now jjp's like we're going to have to get the legacy of Harry Potter to play our Harry Potter wannabe game American pimple is like how are we gonna get a cuphead to play I mean maybe a cosplayer could do it f is like get the cup on the phone yeah get the mug too we need both of them stat it was a it was a really cool thing to see K Reeves on there flipping his own flipping his own game nicely done Stern pimble and speaking of stern we've got a lot of new code this is where they're killing it they keep relevant because they sell a game they come out of the gates with a game that they get you with the emotional feel of something new something theme-wise uh and and they get you with all that something design-wise toy wise right and then you purchase it and you're like okay but then they keep reupping those endorphins uh that dopamine level by giving you trickles of new experiences with code updates it's not like they start at 1.0 and then keep enhancing it no no it's not finished whenever they give it to you but they know we're going to buy it because that's what we do because it's new and shiny and then we wait over time and we just keep getting spoonfed little attractions now some would argue that this is a shitty way of doing it um but I don't think it's hard to AR I don't think you can't argue that it's not effective I've heard it both ways um some people do actually really appreciate the revamping watching a game evolve in particular and others are like this is just a symptom from the video game side of you're releasing product before it's ready new code includes uh timely Deadpool version 1.11 where they added a Berserker boom I have no clue what the I think it's like more I mean there's lots of booms so I guess it's a different type of boom yeah and they were doing a different achievements because of the new uh Deadpool Wolverine film so that's another Insider connected another way for stern to hold Supreme here um they can be more relevant and timely with Insider connected like never before and more relevant and timely than anybody else can compete with in the entire industry is anybody ever going to catch up will anybody make that move no new code for John Wick version 86 this is a big one this is a big code update and we still have a lot more game to add to it people are starting to speak more favorably about this game they've added location modes locations are started when an enemy is defeated and then completing a location is going to light adversary battle and then this is pretty novel a daily random gameplay seed any idea what this is Dennis I well Game seeds I normally associate that with uh Rog likes do this where there'll be a seed um that populates the quote unquote world and sometimes you can know seed so if you type this like in certain things if you want to recreate a seed you can if you know what it is but I see but yeah basically it's a randomized uh yeah games like you're not going to be presented with the same uh order of scenario of right right so in some video games for example they'll do random seeds where like the order of the bosses is different so it's not too linear I guess right right like the map like it depends like some games the the way the rooms are laid out and stuff might change in other games the maps and all the levels will be the same but where all the items are is different so it kind of depends on the type of game that gets so sometimes they'll take like Nintendo games and and develop game seed versions so you can do randomized like Legend of Zelda runs so the items are in different Dungeons and the bosses are your princess is in a different Castle yeah yeah it's just it's a different way to I think it's kind of cool here in pinball they're going to make random the the order of locations when you're playing in John Wick as well as the car chase multiball so it's not it won't get dry they make mix it up and probably the the intensity or the difficulty levels probably will uh generate and change as well new achievements also added in this new code update including completing John Wick's house catacombs abandoned building a lot of balancing a lot of adjusting issues other new code from Stern Pinball James Bond v1.03 where adds speaker lighting effects and better choreography with that wonderful topper and its lighting and new code Godzilla v1.11 with added speaker lighting effects as well all right we got to jump into another big story in the industry which is the fall of haggus pimble uh hello passengers this is your captain speaking we want to thank you for flying with us today we are currently cruising at an altitude of 61,000 Ft which coincidentally is the same number of dollars that fliping out pinball lost from making a bad business deal with a group of Australian uh speaking of Carl Weathers a bit choppy as we fly over Australia so flight attendance make sure everyone remains buckled throughout the duration of this flank VI but fear not I'm here to keep you safe keep you keep you entertained uh if you look closely at the left side of your plane passenger you'll be able to see a moving van full of pinball manufacturing equipment being taken out of the factory before a liquidation crew can scrape together any money to help pay back those that lost hundreds of thousands of dollars from haggish pinball I kid I kid oh and would you look at that passengers on the right side of our aircraft if you look quickly out your window uh you're going to see an actual angel in the sky uh yes this apparently is the angel investor that Damen from haggas pinball was looking for to keep his business leeching more money from people for another couple of years I still can't see it huh well keep looking uh it's it's right by that cloud that's shaped uh like a gullible whale all joking aside we appreciate you flying flipping out air today and God willing let's pray for clear skies in the pinball [Music] future so Dennis the time has come we have talked about this the industry has talked about this so we won't go crazy deep because you've heard it elsewhere uh and I'm getting bored of it at this point and I'm [ __ ] I'm out a lot of money uh but haggus pinball finally succumbs to to closure right they're in the liquidation process mhm yes all right I would call this liquidation without any liquid pretty much U Not Unusual we've seen that with others highway highway is reminiscent where's my high Hydro foil you know maybe you should get into the hydro foil business I don't know anything about Hydro foils but they sound fun so if you go to nap arcade go to kineticist there's uh pinball news probably has uh coverage timelines that you can follow to see what happened to haggus in the timeline of events uh from you know the promises they made and failed with to where we're at now which is essentially a liquidation company coming in and reaching out to creditors that are owed money from haggus pinball one of them being myself from flipping out pinball and uh you know if the big question is when did Damian and ownership know um is this a scam is this just taking too big of a bite and being in over your head and I think what I can say is that and this is still I'm not in anybody else's head so it's just merely a guess I think intentions are one thing but so much has occurred that no one would be able to convince me that Damian Andor others they knew that they were not going to be able to fulfill what they were selling as they were still accepting money that's where I'm at I would have a hard time I would have a hard time believing that not to be true thus in my opinion there were uh significant I'll use the word significant levels of deception I'm I'll use the word significant deception because I don't know another scenario that better make sense if it isn't for deception and all that's kind of vague what are your thoughts on the liquidation the closing the the the the stories that you know days prior to the liquidation announcement there was vans that they were loading equipment getting everything out of there no response to any of their business partners that they owe money to uh they just they've they've cleared all online presence videos gone everything's gone it bad it real bad yeah I mean so there are a few there are few things um here in play and my apologies for having you regurgitate this you've discussed this at link on EGP as well we did we did when it first when the liquidation first announced I didn't spend very much time on it since like the list of creditors and such came out because I I feel like no one wants to hear me like read through a whole bunch of documentation like that uh having done past you know this is not my first pinball failure that I've covered the I think the I agree with you especially in the wake of the the comment this is based off the commentary of people who who had claimed who had Direct purchases for example in particular I would say with haggus that their game was about to be made or was on the line and to send full payment and that they did not receive product that aspect is the part that red flags it for me that they were clearly needing to bring in more cash and one of the ways they used was was to get people to send money even though their stuff wasn't actually ready for production so that's one factor the the other thing would be about obviously we knew there was an issue the moment that that email what was it in February came out the one where they needed to recapitalize I think was the word recapitalization m now I believe I comment I know I've commentated this a couple of times but I think right when that came out one of the things I noted is let's say in this hypothetical world that I was a super rich investor you know I'm there I've got my Mr Moneybags hat from Monopoly on yeah I got the shoe and the boat I got all mon yeah the monacle maybe I mean that's very yeah the thimble got the thimble in case I I was like the thimble doesn't make any sense of Monopoly cuz there ain't no way that guy ever patched his own clothes yeah I used to be thimble but now I'm just the sneaker or the boot not the boot I I I would take whatever I it didn't matter sometimes I was the ship sometimes I was the car my sister was always the dog and would not play if she could not be the dog Scotty dog yeah yes so anyway um for me though when it's like okay you need to recapitalize that's not a good sign I everyone understood that in fact a lot of people were like well we're glad hag guess has said something publicly but rutro yeah but now the the issue that's Arisen uh well when that happened was my initial reaction was there is no way I would come in as an investor and recapitalize you without me taking over absolutely and I heard I don't remember where I heard it I heard someone claim that there was a discussion about that but that Damian had made it very clear he would not be giving up control of haggus I'm like but if you need this size of a bailout I think who would ever let you continue to run it without even knowing any details as fair or unfair as it is it's like if you're asking for this amount of money it sounds to me like you've failed and if my cash is coming in my brain is coming in too yeah uh so so but at that stage with that announcement it was telegraphed that things were not going right so every decision that still took in after that point is going to be examined under a microscope by the community because it's like okay well you said you needed to recapitalize you said that your Jus in Time Manufacturing wasn't working anymore so how are you getting stuff done and of course they never really said anything after that point I don't think the company said anything publicly after that point period so and and communication with them even as an authorized dealer for him was was it was it was tough uh towards the end here especially in the last year uh and without boring people with the details of of my business aspect as a provider for him I I will say that there was a time that we had a couple of the fathom games that had some Playfield issue stuff and it's been discussed on pinside and on the forums and social media there were some Playfield issue warping kind of stuff and we were attempting to take care of that and we were told one thing from haggas oh popul it's going to be populated Playfield as they should you know and we you know uh Greg who runs our tech department warranty department he worked with them for months after months after months of them saying Oh it's going to happen it's going to H and then finally we just made I made an executive decision and said no I I I don't believe it's going to happen I I don't know if it's going to happen but I'm tired tired of our customers waiting so I'll [ __ ] eat now this is before you know I knew I was lose all this Mone this before you knew you were going to refund everyone including people that had already canel their deposit six months ago after six plus months of waiting for a resolution for something I said no we're not doing it so we issued again money out of my pocket we issued full refunds for some games um and I finally was I was able to and I never got what I was promised but I did find a solution that cost me a little bit more money but good games now but so everybody was made whole on that but then whenever the communication still slipped and then it was hey just want to give you guys a i this was proba spring I want to give you guys a heads up that once centaurs do uh start shipping and stuff we're probably going to do bundles of 10 So Paid in Full of 10 and uh oh wait wow that's interesting so my response to them was strong assertive essentially in a roundabout way but it's still professional because it's business I said um you had a really it's a major issue but minor in the grand scheme of things minor financially uh to fix these fathom issues that we've had with customers and you [ __ ] couldn't figure out how to do that so I had to fix the problem for you and it for you to think I will pay anything for for 10 game like with all due respect uh I I think we're not on the same page here or you're mistaking me for a dumb business person which I am not so I was stirring with them on that or with the idea of restructuring and and finding some seed money or investor money Mone or thinking that I would be open to assisting with finding said that's oh wow I mean I it's just I again I'm not a I'm not a business person but it doesn't seem normal to me to turn to your distributor Network and ask them to help you find investors well if they thought maybe what that you'd invest in it possibly who knows I don't know I don't know but uh present it as part of a team to try to you know uh opportunity did you explore it would you gotten to been in charge I would never explore that and what I explained to them was that poor ship is on a different planet not only has it sailed like there is nothing like if you can't fix a little minor issue then I would never think about assisting with a bigger picture plan uh so that was one the last that was the last communication really that I had with them saying essentially I need I need actions uh and until you have actions like leave me alone I've lost enough money at this point with your company and you know the foreshadowing is I lost a hell of a lot more once they went under so and a lot of those details will be discussed further We There is a new Carrie Hardy series called unboxing the truth I had that's that's a pretty good name because I'm boxing the truth uh because I like car's work and I watched the first episode and it's [ __ ] it's good it's it's really good um even if you're not interested in the ha spinball thing it's just it's interesting content and I I give him a lot of credit for creating good entertaining content um so he talked to two Haus pinball customers about their experiences um and he he very much adds a lot of dramatization a lot of um um reenactments not reenactment re damn it carry had like the DAT line uh walking while filming kind like he just it was it was uh it was very entertaining for me I loved it so I'm looking forward to subsequent episodes and listener you never know maybe one uh with myself on there as well uh coming soon but so a lot of mess over it at haggas pinball I did want to correct some information out there just objectively trying to um to clarify some things that are incorrect there were some reports whenever this liquidation thing came out uh there was um they sent to us creditors people who were owed money um very formal from the Liquidators here's what everybody has owed um here's paperwork you got to fill out to submit if this is incorrect here's you know and it included every every single person that was owed a penny their address all this stuff uh the problem was that and then uh so the threads and the hobbyist forms and stuff they got their hands on this oh yeah and they did good did a good job of De identifying some of the information and bundling together cuz my my document had every single person but when they presented it online it had just like dealers and then a total amount uh but one of the forms said that flipping out pinball was owed $60,000 Australian dollars M that's a lot that's a shitload of money tennis that is a load of money that makes my pee PE soft like that that that hurts that really hurts um sadly I would be happy if that's what it was uh because objectively what I submitted to the liquidation of being owed um and this is just being owed Centaur based stuff was 91,5 00 Australian dollars which comes out to around 60 61,000 USD or US dollars so that's a lot worse that's a really a lot worse there Dennis oh I laughed I got a laugh He Just gota Gotta Laugh um so for somebody like me a small business that is a lot of money um but it is what it is it's [ __ ] life but I just wanted to clarify not for sympathy anything just for clarification like that information was I wish it was right but it was wrong so I can only imagine that other numbers were probably skewed as well uh maybe they'll update those but that's not taking into consideration the the money we lost with some of the fathoms making that right uh so we're had a lot of money with that other thing that I saw reports this was I believe a nap article and this is respectively just correcting some of the information in there it said something to the extent of it was written in a way that said basically it was doing the timeline it said the timeline was um when centur came out then flipping out became the the sole us dealer coin taker uh distribution was the former US dealer but coin taker cut ties with haggus essentially saying that they seen the writing on the wall so they cut ties so then somebody had to sell these products so flipping out stepped in so that is objectively incorrect information um I don't even know where that information come from because prior to Centaur going for sale um there was a handful of us dealers Distributors for haggus products I myself was selling fathoms um we sold quite a few fathoms so I there was a lot of dealers um a lot there was probably five to 10 dealers so a lot of people are selling fathom um so it wasn't it wasn't a sole dealer so coin taker was n the only distributor pre Centaur is what you're saying and the the only evidence and objective knowledge that I have is that whenever centaur was about to come out I had a meeting with a requested meeting from haggus and met with Damian at tpf of 202 three I guess have been 2023 yeah yeah he was there in 2023 so met with him and at the request of him um and at that time they had asked if I would have interest in they were consolidating their distribution channels and they just want to have one US dealer one Canadian dealer one European dealer uh if I would be interested I is in flipping out pimball would be interested in being the sole us dealer whether they were sub dealers and stuff but the the sole us dealer and after discussion we accepted that um so haggas cut ties with whatever dealers they still had um because they were just consolidating so I don't think it was like a it just a business thing uh so I to my knowledge nobody opted out um seen writing on the wall or anything like that so just for clarification sake um so yeah there's that uh oh also update uh for those who care prior to all this liquidation stuff what was about a month ago myself and Nicole flipping out finally said you know what like we're going to offer people refunds even though they haven't called at quits um and we said we'd offer refunds uh you know if if they went under this year we're going to go ahead and offer refunds or short credit or whatever people want to do uh because this doesn't feel good but at the date of this we've already refunded everybody's money that wanted refunds and um for anybody who wants credit either was credited for a different product or has a standing credit with us so um yeah we we've made whole every one of our customers so we can proudly say that with flipping out pinball not one of our customers who ordered a fathom or who ordered a centaur or out any uh any money not a penny so we're proud of that so that tag us that's what happens when people try to make pinball for those newcomers welcome uh let this be an example of one that people still won't learn from and will continue to happen over and over again well you know one of the things that stood out to me which which I should have brought up in the whole you know the early discussion where you were mentioning about what was going on when should they when did they see the writing on the wall I think one of the things that really stood out with the report coming out of the Liquidators wasn't so much the amounts owed to the Distributors and such even though that's obviously a very large and thus impressive number but there was no record of an escrow account yeah they mentioned it too and the escrow right escrow I believe the escrow concept was proposed as a method for people who were going to be like their they had that club membership remember where they people would pay Mone yeah yeah and I think that money was originally advertised as being kept in escro m and and it was weird too because dealers could still do the ticket because we had I think one or two ticket series ticket holders um so refund technically it would have escrow's one those things because people like love the word escro because it sounds they halfly use that word yeah right right because it's supposed to be a third party a third party would hold the money but it should still like be in the asset list I would think but yeah no one can find the like they if you gave the money like one of the places there where I buy and sell wristwatches uses an escrow service so the the site is the escrow I don't send money directly to the dealer and when I sell something they don't send the money directly to me the person has to receive the product first the escro service gets uh confirmation of the delivery and then the escro service releases the funds that's we do it so um yeah I I've noticed that that term gets used a lot in pinball and I think it's used as a as a security blanket when it's untrue it's not really escrow if if uh you're like like when coin taker for Dutch pinball held the funding to give to Dutch that's like an escrow Arrangement because they're the third party were they selling the games up would it have been an escrow well if they were the customer like it would be an escrow if they weren't selling the product well but the the issue was what they what they had indicated was that they would not give the money the final full payment to Dutch until the game was ready so coint taker was functioning as escrow to comfort the customer that their C the customer's money wasn't going to be sent initially to Dutch pinball before the game it's all semantics I guess I could have technically said that too like I offered an escrow because their money technically never went to haggus flipping out's money went to ha you know like it's it's murky yeah no I think in but in your instance this normally involving full payment yes yes yeah but normally the whole escro thing is involving full amounts versus the deposit model so there are a lot of people who paid in full to haggus who bought directly from haggus I will say back in December January we had one series ticket holder that was getting over bivion that haggus requested full payment on Dennis and they submitted it uh yeah never got their game so it wasn't just the deposits that I had to refund people we had had one paid in full or Oblivion and that oh I didn't I didn't know the Distributors dealt with the season ticket holders they did like later yeah they did and it sucks too in retrospect I was trying to be a good business partner when the customer initially bought a fathom from haggas direct then they wanted the security of flipping out for centaur but they also wanted to do a series ticket uh so haggus allowed them to do a series series ticket for the remaining four through flipping out so uh haggas came to me and said do you know do you want do you want this or do you want us to handle this series ticket and I said it's up to you guys if you guys want me to do it I can uh if you want to stick and they were like that you can just you can keep it and I'm like all right so by me keeping it it was me uh you know having to pay for it whenever it wasn't delivered so you know if I would have just said no you guys can handle it but that's I hope this has taught you an important business lesson to not enter into any new relationships with new pinball that's a lot of people said you know for those that said oh he knew you know that's what he gets for going into relationship with a business Rel and it's not really fair because you know life isn't fair this is business this is business just a business it's calculated risks you win some you lose some you try to win more than you lose um it sucks but would I when people say would you do it over again you know hindsight well I mean why would I lose no but I mean that's [ __ ] would I lose money if I had the nah probably so uh but I could see uh situation like this that I'm more hesitant but I'm still not risk aversive totally in business so yeah [ __ ] like this comes up good opportunities come up you have to weigh the pros versus the cons and you go with it as long as everybody's taken care of at the end of the day that's what matters we'll keep going Chicago gaming company there going to keep going oh boy they're going to keep going so much so that this was a this was a mess of a situation but of course it is a Chicago gaming company well weeks back I started getting messages from customers hey I want one of those new XL color displays that they used to be making for Medieval Madness with the with the speaker lighting and the the big old long extended animated colored freaking awesome accessory um and I said okay well I mean we're taking a list whenever resell them again they're like oh no they're selling them now like no they're not oh yeah pinside said they are [ __ ] pinside so I go on pinside and look and they oh yeah cgc selling them I'm like well first off cgc doesn't even sell direct so that's no they haven't reached out to dealers no not all this is [ __ ] and I even said that online like no you know they haven't reached out to dealers so no this is all just and uh people no no no it's true so I call Chicago gaming hey know um is there some truth to like what's going on they're like yeah yeah we're uh building them again I'm like [ __ ] how you going to sell a product and not tell your dealers number one they don't need to they're selling direct right number two I thought you guys weren't selling direct like what is that surprise surprise surprise you oh my God so I was like oh my God okay so I got some on or and they I was like well okay I'm eating crow there yeah you guys are correct they are selling these XL displays again for uh I thought it was for medieval Madness but I was talking to cgc and they said now this is this is from cgc they said that uh when they came out with these XEL you know what I'm talking to listener Dennis you know what I'm talking about this these XL displays oh yeah yeah know yeah they came out with medieval manness the Royal Edition but they also sold se's and Classics during this uh oh hell this has got to be six years ago or five years ago this was the Super this is before they knew like what what a big hit the XL would be yes so they they sell these accessories to make your original Le or original remake of medieval Manish just like these so you can buy the topper as an accessory an XL display as an accessory even the RGB lighting kit paying the ass to install but you could buy it as a kit all as an accessory uh and they sold very well not initially not so well but then the to topper Market hit and everything hit and everybody wanted these things they have been gone and and unable to purchase for two or three years people have been yearning for them um people have been really wanting them so they're coming out with the XL colge play but cgc told me they didn't Market it they marketed only for MMR when years back they said technically these work for attack for Mars and Monster Bash Too yeah so for individuals with the classic versions that don't come standard with this XL color display you can put it on your classic editions remakes of of Chico gaming company's uh Monster Bash remake and attack from Mars so that's really cool so they're shipping now they're in stock and they plan on producing the king of pain Toppers and RGB kits uh later on here in Q4 which then brings up the wind's MMR coming out is it coming out people I don't know why people are still questioning whether or not they're making medieval mantis remake again we have screamed it we have said it everybody said yes they are making Medieval Madness REM again when they would love to start in December but it's cgc so I think February March if I had to guess I think it'll be q1 of 2025 so they are making again I'm going to pose this question to you Dennis as we're looking at all of the in for the patreon members the club members we've already reviewed all of the stuff coming out uh the schedule game releases that's a there's a lot of new had a lot of big titles MMR another run this is like the third run of medieval manage remake if not more does cgc end up selling more in this run of MMR than the total number of we're gonna go through the list of the next Stern Cornerstone Ellie uh tricky that's probably a thousand right right I'm assuming it'll be a thousand so no yeah I'm gonna I'll say no as well simply because they've already run MMR before this was a first time then I'd say yes easily so that one that one's kind of easy what about the next JJ PC yes oh so we know that typically they like to put a thousand count on that CE correct and they made all of them an El John but so you're banking on it maybe not being a big hit uh not so much that I mean it's it's the price Delta between the MMR and the CE is a big motivator of it too okay yeah maybe even the biggest motiv sure okay so you're going know on that on that I would say I think it'll be close but I'm gonna say no yeah I'm going to I'm going to say more mmrs that's tough what about labyrinths I think Labyrinth will have a higher account I do too funh housee remakes in total no you think more mmrs then yes then funh house remake let me think fun house isn't as beloved as you might think it is it's yeah but it's the first time remade versus like the time remade creep too creepy too creepy I'm going to say yeah oh man that's a clo I'm going come back to that one Looney Tunes and Texas Chainsaw Massacre together gosh the Looney Tunes makes it hard for me um I know I'll say no I think lone and Texas combined probably do beat the next run of MMR I agree only because of Looney though I agree but I think that people would be surprised how close that was what about the next spooky game in total because the the rumor is they're not going to do this dual theme thing again it's going be one theme and we don't know what for sure what it is so this is just just a who knows but what do you think more mmrs this next run that they sell or the next spooky game in total I don't know what they're I don't know what they're working on I I will say probably the next spooky game I've heard the rumor is all of their upcoming licenses are extremely strong so I'll go ahead and say more on the spooky game I'm going to say more on the next spooky game yeah and going back to funh house remake I think MMR rerun is going to Edge out funh housee remakes in total but I could easily be wrong on that one Dutch pinball in the news a continue to tease their next game Alice's Adventures in Wonderland with a sneak peek photo of a leor sculpted pocket watch with a quote 3in IPS screen because we care end quote H it's nice to care yeah share because you care now I don't I I still know what an IPS screen is I guess maybe a dynamic screen or something um so we should be seeing that soon it's probably it's from dpxxx so it's going to be more of a boutique I don't even know how many they're making 500 something that's what they report but depending on price they may only sell 100 they may sell more who knows but they do now have a couple of content creators on NDA that is Carrie Hardy and Chris coolers from canadi pinball podcast so we should see and hear more from uh from them soon about this game I would I would think because they I I believe they're rolling this out uh before Expo and they've also added some us dealers now they're I think they're up to four us dealers for Dutch pinball and Dutch pinball X yeah no no flipping out pinball still as a dealer the [ __ ] all right question to you Dennis there's rumors that Dutch pinball you know they've got back to the future they thought they were going to come out with it this year but they've delayed that to next year what if Dutch pinball doesn't have Back to the Future then nobody has it and that's for the best we all win and only it's not like I know any information but it just makes me wonder why do you wonder because like it's it was just so odd that Dutch pinball would get that license over likes of any of the larger companies number one I've always always wondered that uh number two if they said they've had this license I've heard about this license from like what 2022 2023 like they've had it for a while now they're not going to make it until 2025 like how long are they going to pay for a license that they're not making a product for I mean it happened with Labowski so I would venture to say that the licensing pricing on Labowski versus Back to the Future is substantially different why do you think that perception I have no evidence I'll tell you why I don't have that perception because I don't think Back To The Future Has the asset coming with it for Dutch that they had with Labowski the the the The Branding and intellectual property value for Back to the Future is likely 50 times higher than that of the big Labowski franch they don't have the if they don't if they can't use the DeLorean if they can't use Michael J fox if they can't use Christopher Lloyd how much do you have to pay I mean look at home pen and The Blues Brothers which doesn't have anything from the movie sure sure they could it could be something like that it could be so when you can consider that being on the table like the right to use the name and the font all of a sudden to me it seems quite affordable if that's the case but and I think the answer to your question about other you know other Li I still I still think you obviously think that other other manufacturers wanted this license I remain unconvinced that they did I just that just from a business it makes no logical sense to me like this is a property that sells merchandises the property that sell like it is it's is such a hot property that sells so much stuff in so many different areas I mean you've got theme park R you've got so much stuff uh you don't have a big Labowski theme park R you don't have sure but I don't see people walking around on the street wearing Back to the Future t-shirts and stuff it's just not sure they do no I don't see them oh okay you've got like you you it'd be a better license to do Nike and collect all the shoes collect all the all right it's just it was interesting to me because as I here's the other question do you think we even see it in 2025 um I think it'll be revealed by then yes I just want to Back to the Future game py gaming they continue to uh create the funh housee remakes um I got to give myself a little credit here helped with flipping out pinball create Sizzle trailer for the uh the 2.0 it's the the LA midnight limited edition model they didn't have like a trailer trailer so I'm like oh I need to create one it's a cool game so I created go check that out as well as we've got some Ellie gameplay a get an Ellie gameplay guide coming this week from flipping out pinball so go follow like And subscribe to that if you want to see a gameplay guide for that new game Pinball Brothers say that they are now shipping Abbas none have landed in the state yet but they're coming and before going any further Denis we have to thank some people they're our official screaming goat club members of the pinball show yay today's topic is liquidation so we should make them all liquids oh that's true yeah thank you again Rodney or also known as the Bobcat if the Bobcat was a drink what would it taste like oh spicy well not not uh not Hair of the Dog oh no uh you see I'd shoot that [ __ ] uh gun metal it like gun metal oh shoot that [ __ ] I don't know Rob thank you so much Rob and your continued support the panther I think tastes like robot tusin cuz 60% of the time it works every time I think it would be the worst tasting drink of this bunch I think if anything it would taste like a diaper filled with Indian food uh which is weird because Rob normally when we do our uh patreon uh you hours he's always got the fcy stuff he does he's always mixing drink god the guy is just so smooth but his drink not so much Frank I want to thank Frank for being a screaming goat Club member the Falcon uh the Falcon uh would have some bite to it I think it would be more of uh what we call a general red drink Ripple I'll take that red juice some of that stuff Dave thanks so much Dave for the continued support screaming goat Club Shake motor um what would that taste like uh vodka martini shaken but not that's clever thank you thank you for the bail out there uh Joe want to thank Joe for the continued support the fox I mean it'd be an orange drink right you have to just it's an orange drink orange Kool-Aid yeah orange soda that would be sun kissed yep yep absolutely and Charlie thank you Charlie for the continued support also known here as the Bell the bell of the ball maybe one of the Moscow Mules do they come in those weird cups that the Bell is made out of absolutely those copper cups absolutely and the next one's so so simple thank you you think so you think yeah thank thank you this will lead me right into the dude thanks for the continued support William okay sir you're a Labowski I'm a Labowski that's terrific and uh the dude would absolutely be the White Russian all right lately as an official TPS member people in Discord have been talking about watches so you could run away as fast as you can from that Discord but holy cow have you lost control of that Discord you know what I even commented in there recently during the the watch [ __ ] discussion nobody even referenced it so I [ __ ] deleted it and I said you know what I'm not coming in here anymore I'm staying out of this whole stupid subsection of watches I'm done yeah that's right guys uh reminder stay tuned we should have a happy hour hangout coming very soon so for those members will announce that in our Discord and on our club membership page but before the end of the show we got to give the people the heat got to give the people what they want it's not liquidation here at the pinball show no no no no no it's hard it's solid it's the steel of the industry it's pinball market trends the B can't ATT my [Music] I like your style dude trining up this week is Deadpool because Dennis went and seen the film of course it is it's Deadpool it's fun movie it's trining up right now because Stern's all in right now with promotion of it they've done code updates for this game there are added achievements for this game it is relevant to what's training right now in our society that is the Deadpool and Wolverine film it is everything right now uh in the world of pop culture is everything Deadpool if Stern really cared they would they would insert in some of the animation dog pool just like have a little dog in a Deadpool outfit just in the corner like in the arcade on the standby screen or something I know I know for a fact what we are dressing Greg's dog up as this year yes yeah no Greg's dog yeah for Halloween special it's dog pool absolutely I and I think I'm doing the Deadpool and I think he may be doing the Wolverine for that episode cuz he he he pull off a good Hugh Jackman Wolverine with his beard him hairy all training up this week it's oh my God it's new pinball accessory releases not never a time uh in this year like this last month we have got some substantial cool re-releases and releases the stern expression speaker lighting kit and the cgc XL display oh baby you know what it almost feels as I wonder if Spike three Dennis will come standard with some expression speaker lighting H maybe either that or a year later it's going to be added upgrade so go out and and purchase and love on those new pinball accessories because for me that new display whether it's on the cgc or if it's the lighting on a on a Stern I care more about that than I do shooter Rod or armor CU it's so visual it's right there also tring up this week I got to give it to him it's jjp's recent media infused Elton John promotional video have you seen this have you heard this I didn't know this was a thing holy Mo I just I the last thing I remember was that one guy who flew away we never saw him again he just lifted in the air this I I've got to I think it was Ken Cromwell I got to give my buddy Ken a lot and of course I'm biased because he's a great friend but I've got to give him a shitload of Public Credit here cuz he has done in one little bitty short form media reel what all of these manufacturers should have been doing for a while and that is taking the product that you're trying to sell and creatively in meshing it with those who are most publicly supportive of said product and creating a promotion that integrates all of that together and it was done so nicely so you had individuals like uh like YouTube like Gonzo's YouTube or Erica there was comments during this promotional reel from them this is Steve Ritchie's uh best shooting game or like it was just so well done that I just love seeing this kind of stuff so we often poke manufacturers for not working uh with with pinball media and such well they've proven it wrong here this is a terrific maybe a gold standard example of how to do this to Perfection also training up this week is the odds of pinball becoming an Olympic sport no come on it's trending up baby well look here's my point uh objectively Point break dancing Dennis break dancing break dancing why are you judging all the B boys and be girls out there and and they're they're so cool they they can't even call it break they just call it breaking no as if break dancing wasn't bad enough you're going to [ __ ] call it break no it's not a sport it's a dance it's a [ __ ] dance there's no sport about that does it make you sweat yeah sure sure I when I'm grooving half drunk at a wedding reception I'm sweating too baby you got to get that draff beer out of you but it's not an Olympic sport uh don't get me started how about this not breaking dancing horse dancing I [ __ ] you not listener if you weren't privy to it horse dancing isn't Olympic sport that's preposterous horse dancing you don't even break a sweat dancing your horse around what is that and for God's sakes if break dancing wasn't bad enough if horse dancing wasn't laughable you're going to tell me pinball is not Olympic sport but [ __ ] mall walking is Mall walking I wouldn't even want the golden that have you seen these people Dennis I've seen some of them the horse dancing and break dancing people you but you've not seen the speed walking no I didn't I thought you were making that one up oh no sadly this is too true to make up You There are rules that you you have to be rules walking stride so you the difference between all three of those and pinball pinball would never pass the drug test oh well half of these don't either to be honest but Mall walking so next never have I seen a competition that's like no so we know there's full stride called a run but we want you to go up to that threshold without jumping right into running so like I I looked at the rules too you have to like the front foot can't bend at the knee and both feet have to be at least one foot has to be touching the ground at one time to constitute a wall yes Mall walking these poor you should see the hips of these competitors like [Music] becoming dislodged out of the hip socket just so that they could keep the speed walking care in motion it's horrid so yes training up this week is definitely the odds of pinball actually becoming Olympic sport because half of these damn things are now laughable have you been watching Olympics Dennis no oh that's sad what's next Eames oh God there's been talk [ __ ] joke you know what I'll put this out there I would argue that pinball is very much more a sport than any video gaming is how about that boom all right not much for trending down this week but one thing that is definitely trending down and I I I'm just reporting the facts here people flipping out Pinball's bank account hey and look a lot of you guys are like oh it's because he lost money with haggus no as if that wasn't bad enough welcome to the stage soggy State machines and what I mean by that I just it's clever to call them soggy State machines I lost my ass on a trade in recently Dennis that included I I'm just done with old games you know I I've poo pooed them in the past and for good reason I'm so sick and tired of these stupid ass solid state or electr mechanical games that people trade them in oh they're in excellent condition they're in very good condition and they bring them to me and I go inspect them they're soggy they were water damaged Dennis they're water damaged I I put my finger through the cabinet oh this guy got a brand new Stern Pro but yes I lost my as Denis on um on some what's wrong with people do there still needs to be a quantifiable categorization grading system of conditions of pinball machines I'm not saying he's going to send everything off to get certified like a baseball card I'm not saying that I'm in the process of of creating it but I may be it's such a big task though but I'm working on it there needs to be some type of categorization cuz when you say something's in very good condition and it doesn't boot and I can stick my finger through the cabinet we're we're not on the same page right sure but then I'm the [ __ ] that met hey uh what constitutes good condition here like this is maybe you just need a blanket rule that you don't want anything older than DMD it help weed out some of it I know but I'm fine take and then you know what the guy said when I me I said look I I don't usually I just take it off theend I don't care I'll lose my ass if I need to um because I should asked more questions but I got to say this is pretty agous man this is pretty bad and he goes well you know it didn't have no water damage I said you have them in a basement like with [ __ ] no ventilation like what what did they come from a swamp and he goes well we did could hit a little water on the drive over [ __ ] there you go and that's look people I'm just here to report the facts because numbers don't lie and maybe I should start lying I'm pinball Market TR Denis working people reach you you can always email clec Gamers podcast gmail.com and I check those and sometimes I answer them you can email us at the pinball show gmail.com also make sure to follow us on Facebook Faceook Instagram sign up to be a member today patreon.com theep pinball show bye bye bye helps support the show you get some stuff out of it some exclusive stuff too join our Discord and follow like And subscribe to straight in the middle a video series I do on YouTube uh follow like And subscribe to watch us with Dennis on Youtube do you have a Facebook page for that yet oh yeah yeah I have one yeah follow that too and also Big Time flipping out pinball they the sponsor of this show sh I buy from flipping out from topper Shar I've got it figured out flipping out figured out when I think a pinball I think flipping out flipping out figed out out when I buy by buy I buy from flipping oute follow like And subscribe to them but the product showcase this week for flipping out pinball is the accessories get yourself a cgc display XL display for one of your remake classic games as well as a Stern expression speaker lighting we have a ton of those coming in this week so gobble them up I we've had some customers buy them like they're buying them for all their Spike twos because they know eventually they're going to uh they're going to get them all uh in all of those so so I've had people buy 10 at a time Godzilla's 70th Anniversary we have in stock but think I'm down to two or three if you're wanting to get on the next interested list for the next Stern release or jjp release we can do that we can take your name we got pul f 's we got Ripley Edition aliens we're taking pre-orders for fun houses labyrinths we have John wixon stock Jaws Godzilla Pros Foo Fighter stranger things uh slew of used games we we've got it all Elton John's you name it we've got it over at flip in out pinball even the escalator stair climbing hand truck and I do have a Big Buck Hunter Reloaded in stock woohoo fliping out with friends is a show that Joel engleberth does with flipping out where he's either streaming a game with his brother Jared or they're having chatting streams they've done recently A Stranger Things stream trying to think what uh what they got coming up this week they may be doing an Iron Maiden stream this week you have to follow and watch on YouTube for that flipping out PBO YouTube Dennis you need to teach these people something well the only thing I can really advise them is if they're having a bad day and it's full of Doom and Gloom just turn on Deadpool and download the new code with Berserker boom whatever it is that was good it was nicely done and always practice say pinball and the next time you hear someone online or someone at a get together say well we could save some money if we just bypass the distributor and the pinball dealer all together let's just buy straight from that company just maybe at that point remember what benefits an authorized pinball dealer such as fliping out pinball can do for you that's all just you know maybe mention it just you [Music] know let's go crazy W let's go let's go go 1 2 three yay H damn

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 8184da5d-d0b8-4c17-90de-4719afb5681b*