# Pinball Expo 2025 Pre Show

**Source:** LoserKid Pinball Podcast  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2025-10-13  
**Duration:** 66m 17s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://zencastr.com/z/frmIa23R

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## Analysis

Josh Roop and Scott Larson discuss pre-Expo 2025 expectations, focusing on Star Wars: Fall of the Empire's Death Star shot rejection issues and quality control concerns at Stern, Jersey Jack Pinball's Harry Potter supply constraints, and the value of media coverage in driving pinball sales. They speculate on upcoming reveals and manufacturer production strategies.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Star Wars Fall of the Empire's Death Star shot is rejecting 80% of the time and players are avoiding the multiball due to risk-reward balance — _Scott reports direct feedback from Travis and Tom (tournament players) and home owners; Stern techs are reaching out with fixes that provide temporary solutions_
- [MEDIUM] Stern experienced a personnel shuffle on the factory floor with more new workers, correlating with increased quality control issues post-Avengers release — _Scott references someone pointing out this correlation; quality issues appear cyclical, rising again after a stable period_
- [HIGH] Jersey Jack Pinball Harry Potter demand exceeds manufacturing capacity, with spring 2026 availability estimates (5-6 months out) — _Josh states 'every distributor you ask cannot get a hold of one' and Zach at Flippin' Out confirms severe backlog; Josh has received multiple friend referrals unable to purchase_
- [MEDIUM] Harry Potter license deal included a 2-month production delay due to licensing restrictions — _Scott states 'with Harry Potter, that was pushed back two months because of licensing restrictions is what we were told'_
- [HIGH] Stern's media day for Star Wars was less attended than typical due to proximity to Expo, with major content creators (Carrie Hardy, Triple Drain crew, Joel) opting to wait for Expo coverage — _Josh notes many 'heavy hitters' weren't present; participants said 'We're going to be at expo. We're just going to come check it out when we're there'_
- [MEDIUM] Spooky Pinball's next game Beetlejuice is expected to be revealed in December after Evil Dead production wraps end of December — _Josh makes educated guess based on Spooky's typical release rhythm and Looney Tunes parallel production pattern_
- [MEDIUM] Media day attendance directly impacts content creator reach metrics more than corporate sales — _Josh and Scott claim their YouTube and podcast numbers are on par with or double Stern's official metrics; Stern brought in Jack Danger as 'head of community' to control narrative_
- [HIGH] X-Men was 'half baked' when released and needed more development time before launch — _Josh confirms X-Men was 'pushed,' validating quality concerns; Scott acknowledges it's 'actually great' when dialed in but inconsistent out of box_

### Notable Quotes

> "when it's rejecting 80% of the time... People are avoiding the Death Star because it's just too hazardous"
> — **Scott Larson**, ~5:00
> _Direct quantification of Death Star shot rejection problem; establishes severity and player behavioral impact_

> "do you think this is a quality issue? A couple years back, supposedly they went through a shuffle of the people on the floor, and they've gotten a bigger percentage of people on the floor are now new"
> — **Scott Larson**, ~6:30
> _Connects quality control issues to workforce changes; signals systematic concern rather than isolated incidents_

> "You spend $7,000 to $13,000 on this game brand new in box, and you want them to work"
> — **Josh Roop**, ~9:00
> _Emphasizes financial stakes and consumer expectations; frames quality as baseline requirement, not luxury_

> "we're on par with what Stern's releasing right now for views... if you start figuring in our podcast numbers we're we're double at least"
> — **Josh Roop**, ~28:00
> _Claims content creator reach exceeds Stern's official channels; challenges corporate control narrative_

> "they don't have the manufacturing capability to keep up... I'm not seeing a ton of these out in the wild. I mean, they're all going into homes"
> — **Josh Roop**, ~35:30
> _Identifies JJP supply constraint as production bottleneck, not demand saturation; indicates home buyer preference over location placement_

> "if you're going to pay that much for a license, there's going to be a lot of contingencies on anticipating that this is going to be a long-term license"
> — **Scott Larson**, ~50:00
> _Strategic interpretation of Harry Potter license economics; suggests extended production window built into deal structure_

> "whether or not you did bring up Stern putting out official stuff, well, that can be a mixed bag because anytime you have something coming from the company, it's going to be viewed as a PR move"
> — **Scott Larson**, ~30:00
> _Acknowledges inherent credibility tension in corporate communications; positions independent media as more trustworthy_

> "if you're not going to allow your designers to take risks or take challenges, then great make medieval madness and slap a new sticker on every time"
> — **Josh Roop**, ~18:00
> _Frames design risk as necessary for category health; argues safe designs lead to stagnation_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Star Wars: Fall of the Empire | game | Stern Pinball's most recent release; experiencing Death Star shot rejection issues affecting gameplay balance and multiball accessibility |
| Stern Pinball | company | Major manufacturer facing quality control concerns post-Avengers; employs multiple simultaneous production lines; hosts media days; brought Jack Danger in as 'head of community' |
| Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Producer of Harry Potter pinball experiencing extreme demand and supply constraints; uses steady production model vs. aggressive scaling; paid expensive license deal |
| Spooky Pinball | company | Boutique manufacturer; does not do simultaneous production; Beetlejuice rumored for December reveal; wrapping Evil Dead by end of 2025 |
| Flippin' Out Pinball | company | Distributor/retailer; co-hosts are sponsors of Loser Kid Podcast; known for honest inventory communication; handling Harry Potter pre-orders with severe backlog |
| Josh Roop | person | Co-host of Loser Kid Pinball Podcast; content creator with significant YouTube/podcast reach; collector of 25-30+ games (mostly Keith Elwin designs); discusses strategic implications of media coverage |
| Scott Larson | person | Co-host of Loser Kid Pinball Podcast; co-captain; provides insider perspective on manufacturing, quality control, and licensing negotiations |
| Zach Minney | person | Owner of Flippin' Out Pinball; known for honest communication about inventory; handles sponsor advertising for Loser Kid; responding to Harry Potter demand surge |
| Nicole Minney | person | Co-owner of Flippin' Out Pinball (with Zach); works behind scenes; noted as female-owned business operator in pinball distribution |
| Jack Danger | person | Stern Pinball employee brought in as 'head of community' to build social media presence and control narrative according to rumor mentioned by Josh |
| Harry Potter Pinball | game | Jersey Jack Pinball's May 2025 release; bona fide hit with multi-tier editions (Arcade, Wizard, Collector's); experiencing 5-6 month backlog; designed by Eric (presumably Eric Meunier); described as beautiful and well-designed |
| Carrie Hardy | person | Content creator/streamer; skipped Star Wars media day in favor of Expo attendance for coverage |
| Retro Ralph | person | Content creator; flexible on Star Wars media day timing (did Friday); competes with other major creators on reach |
| Chicago Pinball Expo | event | Major annual industry event where manufacturers reveal new games; 2025 pre-show discussion indicates expectation of announcements |
| Travis Murray | person | Tournament player; provided direct feedback on Star Wars Death Star shot rejection issues to Loser Kid hosts |
| Tom Graff | person | Tournament player; confirmed Star Wars Death Star rejection issues; informed Josh and Scott of risk-reward concerns |
| X-Men Pinball | game | Stern game pushed to market before ready; auto launcher issues and ramp problems reported; needed extended development time; now performing well when properly set up |
| Beetlejuice | game | Rumored Spooky Pinball title expected December 2025 reveal after Evil Dead production completion |
| Wizard of Oz Pinball | game | Classic reference for long-term production window and multiple return-to-well releases; compared to expected Harry Potter longevity |
| Keith Elwin | person | Legendary Stern designer; Josh owns primarily Elwin designs (Godzilla, Jaws, King Kong, Foo Fighters); benchmark for quality game design |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Quality control at Stern Pinball, Star Wars: Fall of the Empire mechanical issues, Jersey Jack Pinball supply chain constraints, Harry Potter pinball demand and production capacity
- **Secondary:** Media day value and content creator reach, Design philosophy: risk vs. accessibility, Spooky Pinball production strategy, Manufacturer licensing and contractual obligations

### Sentiment

**Mixed** (0.45) — Hosts express frustration with Stern quality control and acknowledge systemic issues, but remain cautiously optimistic about game design and manufacturer intent. Positive outlook on JJP's Harry Potter success tempered by supply concerns. Generally supportive of Expo and industry growth despite specific criticisms.

### Signals

- **[business_signal]** Jersey Jack Pinball manufacturing capacity insufficient to meet Harry Potter demand; 5-6 month backlog indicates production bottleneck rather than demand saturation (confidence: high) — Josh confirmed by multiple distributors; Zach at Flippin' Out unable to fulfill orders; game going exclusively to home buyers not location operators
- **[sentiment_shift]** Shot design balance debate: accessibility vs. challenge on Star Wars vs. perceived design philosophy on other recent titles; community perception of quality consistency across tiers (confidence: medium) — Josh cites examples (Jurassic Park, Munsters) of shot accessibility standards; Scott defends design risk-taking as necessary for category health
- **[event_signal]** Star Wars Fall of the Empire media day attendance significantly lower than typical due to proximity to Chicago Expo; major content creators opted for Expo-week coverage instead (confidence: high) — Carrie Hardy, Triple Drain, Joel, and others skipped media day; participants stated preference to cover at Expo; indicates structural conflict in media day scheduling
- **[licensing_signal]** Harry Potter deal structure suggests extended production window due to premium license cost; manufacturing strategy likely planned for 18+ month output window rather than typical 9-month cycle (confidence: medium) — Scott speculates extended window necessary given licensing expense; references Wizard of Oz precedent for long-term production; JJP may negotiate extended timeline to sustain production
- **[market_signal]** Independent content creators (Loser Kid, Carrie Hardy, Retro Ralph, Flippin' Out) claim reach metrics equal or double Stern's official channels; positioned as more trustworthy than corporate communications (confidence: medium) — Josh claims 'on par' YouTube views plus 'double' with podcast included; multiple creators mentioned with significant streaming following; reflects shift in credibility perception
- **[community_signal]** Jack Danger hired by Stern as head of community; represents internal strategy to formalize external content and narrative control (confidence: low) — Single mention without confirmation; characterized as rumor in context but notable if accurate as strategic direction
- **[personnel_signal]** Stern experienced factory floor personnel shuffle with increased percentage of new workers; quality control issues appear cyclical and correlate with workforce composition changes (confidence: medium) — Scott references 'someone pointed this out'; quality improvements post-Avengers followed by recent degradation suggests cycle tied to staffing
- **[product_strategy]** Harry Potter release delayed 2 months from original schedule due to licensing restrictions; production continues through spring 2026 (confidence: medium) — Scott states licensing restrictions caused 2-month delay; contractual obligations exist for both reveal windows and production timelines
- **[product_concern]** X-Men Pinball released in pushed/incomplete state with auto launcher issues and ramp problems; required extended development time before reaching intended quality; now performs well when properly configured (confidence: high) — Josh confirms X-Men was 'pushed'; Scott acknowledges 'half baked' on arrival; performance improved after setup and tuning
- **[product_concern]** Star Wars Fall of the Empire Death Star shot rejection at 80% rate; Stern technical support reaching out with adjustments that provide temporary fixes before issues recur (confidence: high) — Tournament players Travis and Tom confirmed; home owners reporting frustration; Stern techs actively troubleshooting but fixes not holding
- **[rumor_hype]** Spooky Pinball's Beetlejuice expected December 2025 reveal following Evil Dead production completion by end of year (confidence: medium) — Josh 'highly educatively guess' based on Spooky's typical release rhythm; pattern consistent with Looney Tunes parallel production model
- **[business_signal]** Stern brought Jack Danger in as 'head of community' to build social media presence and control narrative; suggests intentional shift toward first-party content control (confidence: low) — Rumor mentioned by Josh; indicates potential strategy shift but lacks confirmation; context suggests industry speculation

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## Transcript

 thanks for tuning in to the loser tape pinball podcast i am josh roop with me my co-captain scott larson and we are in episode 178 today we're doing some pre-expo shenanigans talking about notes and stuff like that the big drop right now is star wars fall of the empire if you want to get one scott where are you picking it up from it calls that can call many flipping out pinball uh they always hook me up really quickly and uh again they have great options for toppers accessories if you're looking for a classic game uh they can probably do some hunting and they may be able to work on something and so reach out zach and nicole money flipping out pinball they they respond quite quickly uh facebook messenger is actually the quickest way but you can also go to their uh you know their website yeah um i rachel risto had asked if there was any female owned pinball distributors out there and we're like nicole many i'd say yeah zach and nicole and they're they're a team and every time we see them they're they're working together and nicole definitely works uh very heavily behind the scenes uh and so he does a great job so well okay there are others that their people are prominently involved in too so it's yeah it's not just it's not just a stereotypical dude environment yeah no i totally agree so we got a bunch of stuff on our notes um it's it's expo week it's sunday night so this will probably release tomorrow monday morning is my guess um we just we wanted to talk some pre-expo stuff kind of what we're excited for going into this i know we just had rob burke on i did find it funny someone has said that we need to ask more hardball questions with rob i don't know what those would have been so um i don't know the only thing i can possibly think of is you can ask them more things on like, hey, basically maybe controversial things, things that people haven't liked about the expo, but it didn't really feel like that was the point of the interview. The point of the interview was, hey, if you want to come to expo, what are you going to see? And what are the positive things? You're always going to find areas that people wish were better. But I will point out since my first expo and the last expo I went to, it has increased exponentially. Oh, yeah, exploded. And the bottom line is competition is good. We notice this in pinball. It's the same thing with really anything. Pinball would probably not be what it is if Wizard of Oz wasn't released because that was an inflection point that changed the direction of pinball. And so that actually made Stern recalibrate what they're doing. I would argue that what Texas is doing has forced Pinball Expo to recalibrate what they're doing, too, and has really successfully brought it into more of a fan experience, which is so good. And I hope they continue just on that trajectory. So I'm looking forward to it. Yeah. And speaking of Stern, they just released Star Wars Fall of the Empire. I'm excited to play this game at Expo. um i'm hearing the same complaint from everyone though i don't know if you're hearing the scott but the death star shot is rejecting a lot um and people are frustrated with that yeah and the shots are a little tight tight but findable sure but okay how many this is that balance that we've always walked through in pinball right we want it to be challenging but not too challenging We also don't want it to be challenging but too easy, right? And we went through this with Munsters. With Munsters, it's a pretty accessible layout, right? And nobody gave Munsters, like, a positive review, which is like, what do you want? Do you want it to be challenging? And this is where the designers have to walk that balance of you have to have a certain amount of shots that are easy to find. and also the ones that are a little more challenging and then maybe an elite shot here or there. I would argue that Jurassic Park is probably one of the best examples of that because the left ramp, anybody can hit, right? It is dialed into the correct location. Then you get the more challenging shot. The more challenging shot would be the right ramp because for me, that's a little more challenging to hit. And I would say the elite shot is the tower shot. you know, where you're hitting it from the upper flipper and going across. Now, finding that balance on any game is going to be challenging. So on Fall of the Empire, I'm really hoping to get my hands on it to say, okay, so is this, how would I, and I am a very average player. Like I don't have time to do tournaments and all that kind of stuff. And so it'll be really interesting for me to play that game, especially with the triple drain guys, because, you know, Those guys are, at least two of them, are tournament players, and it'll be interesting to pick their brain on it. But it seems like a good game. It's a good theme. So I'm interested in playing it. It is, and I get where you're coming from, but I think specifically people are frustrated with, like, you shoot the Death Star and it rejects. It's not like you hit the shot clean and it bounces back. It doesn't register. when it's rejecting 80% of the time. We heard this from Travis and Tom, who play tournaments a lot. People are avoiding the Death Star because it's just too hazardous. The multiball is not worth the risk-reward. People that have this at home are getting frustrated, and the Stern techs are reaching out and saying, hey, this is what you do. And some people say they've done it, and it fixed it for a day, and it goes right back. It's just, do you think this is a quality issue? because I don't know, someone pointed this out to me, I forgot about this entirely. A couple years back, supposedly they went through a shuffle of the people on the floor, and they've gotten a bigger percentage of people on the floor are now new that are putting these games together. And it kind of makes sense because I feel like some of the quality control issues have been a little up versus what they've been in the previous years. It seems like they were up for a bit, up until about slightly after Avengers, and it seemed like after Avengers, everything was kind of under control there for a little bit. And now it feels like they're up again. It seems like with King Kong, you know, you've got the vertical up kicker, it, it shoots and it launches the ball out and hits the glass and stuff. You do a little bit of adjustment there. It's not a big deal. Same with Star Wars. I mean, I know with John Wick, people were having issues with the, the trunk and stuff like that. It just seems like we're having more issues from the last year and a half. Yeah, I just – it's hard. You know, you spend $7,000 to $13,000 on this game brand new in box, and you want them to work. And I get there's tweaking out of the box. Like, you should always expect that with any game you get out of the box. But it becomes this, like, when it's an actual issue, like in the case of X-Men, when they were having issues with – my mind just went blank. Well, so the auto launcher. Oh, the auto launcher. Correct. That's one thing. yeah the auto launcher um and just some of the ramp issues they were having there as well and people with the central hands you know granted that's why a lot of people want the pros and whatnot as well but it seemed like full kits were going out for x-men and stuff too um i really don't remember much with dungeons and dragons do you not not much with dungeon dragons that i know about uh i i will say there's definitely some recency bias though People definitely remember the last game and the current game. It's like, oh, well, this happened. I'm looking through my collection here, and there are things that have always had challenges. Do you remember on Rush, a lot of people have to install the loop fix because it wasn't registering. So it's basically a little thing that you buy and you put in there to make sure the ball hits the optical sensor. Yeah. So you have that. You also have, like, on Iron Maiden, there were people who were having a hard time hitting the pharaoh shot. And, you know, Led Zeppelin, the little spinny, you know, the rising spinner was having issues. And so, really, it seems like almost every game is going to have something. Even with Rush, we even talked to Bork about this, where the people were like, oh, that scoop is going to get banged, so we're going to have to put these things on it. So Stern was responding and saying, okay, well, if people feel like we need that, then maybe we'll go ahead and do it. So every game has these little teeny tweaks. I think we just forget about them because eventually they get set up and worked out. and especially with a company like stern they do have a track record of actually fixing the issues well and i guess i guess thinking back to the only games i really bought new are all elwyns i mean you can tell right behind me right zilla jaws uh king kong i did get foo fighters i didn't feel like there was much issues with foo fighters but i got the pro i don't know if there was issues outside the pro i do remember jaws um the the fin target kind of you know laid over godzilla at least with me it seemed like the opto on top of the skyscraper went bad really quick but since i did the replacement on that it's been fine um yeah i guess there are little tweaks i just i don't know i i think people are i guess xm is just a really great example because it feels like may that was just half baked when it came out and it should have had more time to cook yeah in fairness it was pushed and so we we do know that and so i i'm going to give it a little bit of a pass on that one. When it is dialed in, it's actually great. Like the shot paths are fun. They work around and it's a fun shooter. Unfortunately, it's not as consistent as the other games that they come out with, as in open it up and set it up and it should be pretty good. I'm not too worried as long as they're actively addressing issues. So I'm going to put this as a talk to me in six months and see how it is. This is going to be a long seller because it's, you know, now you have basically three recent, uh, Star Wars themed games. You have the Mandalorian, you have the Richie Star Wars and you have fall of the empire. So people can use them, but you can figure out which one you prefer. Uh, I would argue in six months, let's revisit this and see if people are still having issues. Cause if they still are having issues, they're going to sell it. Right. And the Richie star Wars had the, that fork ramp that people always have problems with. Well, just even the plunge dude, like everyone hated the plunge. Yeah. So it's a, I don't know. It's, it's interesting because otherwise if you're going to, if you're not going to allow your designers to take risks or take challenges, then great make medieval madness and slap a new sticker on every time because it's a tried and true layout and you're not going to have much issues but that's not what people are going to want so i guess my next question is this time last year i can't remember if metallica was revealed the week before if it was just pretty much dropped it was it was either the week before or the week of i really think it was the week of i think it was because if i remember correctly i couldn't fly in right then so you actually went to the stern factory to play metallica for the you know the uh the influencers whatever they want to call it and i flew in and i directly drove from the airport to stern and i met you there yes so do you think because i mean if we reveal even if we reveal tomorrow or i guess it's today or tuesday um i mean we haven't received we usually receive an email about two weeks out saying hey this is we're revealing something's coming right something's coming set aside your schedule for this day this is what we have for media day but the thing is is with star wars star wars had a bunch of people not there like carrie hardy they us most of triple drain wasn't there i mean your heart your your heavy hitters you know you don't have joel there and and there he's pushing great numbers through streaming and stuff like that and i'm not saying that i'm not trying to like throwing shade on the media people are there what i'm saying is is there was a lot of people that give you a lot of good media coverage just weren't there and um they all said the same thing, right? We're going to be at expo. We're just going to come check it out when we're there at expo. Okay. In fairness, the reason why I didn't go and probably the reason why you didn't go, the, the most challenging thing that I have is my work is not super flexible for me to take a day off on short notice. I can get time off if I wanted, But it's usually I have to engineer it. And so for me, it was in the middle of the week. It was a Wednesday. I would have had to either get a short day on Tuesday and take Wednesday off, which right now we are short staffed. I don't have that opportunity. and buying a ticket last minute to Chicago, it's like 900 bucks from Utah. So it's not cheap. So you're, you're paying that. And then you're paying for whatever time off you have at work. And even like the expo ticket I bought for me and my son was six 50. So it is great. But last minute times, it can be a little more challenging for people who don't live close. If people live close, they can probably drop in and do like a Wednesday thing. I would hope that they would consider in the future doing either a Monday thing or a Friday thing. And by the way, I like that they're even doing this because even two years ago, they weren't doing this, right? So at least they are making an effort to reach out to the people who are pushing news on their product or discussion on their product. So I'm at least grateful that they have started doing this. some tweaks that would help me personally would be i could probably sneak a friday or a monday would be a little easier middle of the week it can be super challenging well but you could pull retro ralph retro ralph did uh he did friday he's like i can't be there thursday i'm in a business meeting up in new york but i'll just do a long delayed layover uh on friday in chicago and i'll just zip on over and we'll get some stuff done and they were totally fine with it i think they're flexible so long as the game has been shown right sure yeah you can show up after like i i showed up after x-men was was shown and i was able to see x-men but okay that also depends on who's available like wasen was able to come down and show me x-men at the time and even george gomez stopped by gary stern stopped by so i was able to see people but it is totally dependent on what their availability is for the day so that they just happen to have like be able to work me in that day but it is more convenient for them to say okay all the people who are going to be streaming your podcast like all the 20 people who routinely do this it's nicer if we can all get there at the same time so my question to you is is even beneficial having the media there we were talking to someone behind the scenes that said, because Stern is a business to business company, that it doesn't actually help that. It's more of the business to the consumer that it helps. So if you're sponsored, like we are with Flip N Out Pinball, it helps out Flip N Out Pinball, but the general sales of pinball it doesn make much of a blip Do you think that true or do you think that hyperbole Well if you looking at it through a microscope you right It doesn't make a difference because they're buying, you know, the businesses are buying from another business. However, where are those businesses selling? The business that are buying these things, they are selling. I know a few small distributors and I've talked behind the scenes with them. and there are people who are like, well, I still have some games and I can't sell and so therefore it affects my ability to buy new ones. And so in the grand scheme of things, it does make sense to do these because how many times, Josh, I guarantee you got these calls when they put the Star Wars Home Edition in Costco. How many people took a picture when they were at Costco and sent it to you? I at least got, I got five to 10 and these are a lot of them were people who weren't even in, in pinball. Yeah. But Costco is a whole nother monster. And we know that like, just go look at the content creation for Costco. It's, it's insane to see the numbers there. Okay. But these are people who didn't even know that pinball was still being made. And so being able to say, yeah, that this is pinball. And so it is interesting because I was able to talk to them and say, okay, yeah, this is a nice game. It still is. a very entry-level new game. It still is a great game, but they sell higher-level stuff through their distributors, and people start looking. So I know personally there's a nurse at work who randomly bought a Jurassic Park Home Edition at Costco. Well, now she also has a Godzilla Premium that she got through flipping out. So that definitely helped her, but she's not going to jump right to the Godzilla premium. And she didn't buy the Jurassic Park home edition. So I, I think you're still able to move people saying, Hey, yes, I'm interested in pinball. And, and there has to be a way of keeping things relevant and people keeping people talk about your, your product. Cause otherwise it's going to die. Otherwise you're going to be RC Cola, right? Right. So I guess maybe I missed it, but so my question to you was, is do you think it's smart for Stern to still have media days? Yes. Because do you think it helps drive the needle on sales? Because you brought up Costco and stuff like that. I think that was a brilliant loss. That was a brilliant advertising way to do that because people are, like you said, they're in Costco. They're seeing that. Yeah, they're cheap and whatnot, but it starts the silver ball itch, the silver ball bug, right? Because here's one thing is someone has said they brought Jack Danger in as the head of community because they need to build out their social media presence. So that way they're controlling narrative. And then that way it's feeling more authentic to Stern, which I don't know how being inside the building, I don't know. It is what it is. But, and then, but that's the thing though, is like, so I've done some, I've done some research. Okay. Granted, I don't have the full numbers in front of me. Sure. Just YouTube numbers alone. We're on par with what Stern's releasing right now for views. and if you start figuring in our podcast numbers we're we're double at least sure and same with carrie same with retro ralph same with flipping out streaming so so do you build upon those numbers do you take some the people you know that are going to be driving content because here's the thing too is someone's getting into this i don't know about you when i first got in i researched the heck out of it i researched for almost two years before i even landed on anything that i actually wanted to buy and even then i feel like i made the wrong choice but i just i'm having a hard time trying to figure out like is media thing media day is going by the wayside or is it just because expo's up now that they're like we don't really need to tell the media people tell like the day of that we release this because they're all gonna be in town anyway because they already told us they're not coming to star wars because they're all coming to expo you know i'm saying Sure. Okay. There were a few aspects and I'll try to unwrap and subdivide these things. Okay. So the, is it possible that they, the media day last month wasn't as big a deal because it was so close to Expo? Is it possible? Sure. However, yes, these things are still valuable because the people who are putting down the money are ultimately going to be listening to these content creation things. And it makes more sense for us to be able to talk better informed about the product than it is for us to speculate, which is what we've done for the most part, right? We've had to speculate a lot. and by us talking and saying, okay, these are the pros, these are the cons, this is what we see, and this is where we would project it. Now, occasionally it's not as accurate because we don't have the long-term viability of the product. Like we can see how it is set up at Stern, but Stern also has professional techs who are there to dial in a machine. So how is that going to be when they buy it at home? But it definitely makes sense. Now, whether or not you did bring up Stern putting out official stuff, well, that can be a mixed bag because anytime you have something coming from the company, it's going to be viewed as a PR move. they're not going to bring up the negatives. They'll probably just emphasize the positives. And that's understandable. If Ford is going to give me a 30-minute infomercial on the Mustang, I'm guaranteeing that they're going to push all the things that they think are great on the Mustang. They may not be able to talk about the other stuff. So yes, I talked way too long on that. But the bottom line is, yes, I think it does matter to be able to have media, have more information on it. And ultimately you and I have like, I've purchased probably over 25, 30 games and we're the ones who are consuming this content. And so if you're going to be getting the people who are buying the high volume games by having the media involved in pushing the product. Yep. I agree. So I think that Scott and I will now talk about some stuff that we're only going to have on Patreon that deals with Stern. um so if you want to listen uh go to our go to our patreon all right now back to our regularly programmed schedule uh scott let's move on to jersey jack pinball okay they released harry potter in may and the game is selling like hotcakes at least that's what i understand every distributor you ask cannot get a hold of one of these till spring is what i'm being told so that's five six months out i mean we're i i think it's a it's a combination right like they They're selling really well, but my understanding is they don't have the manufacturing capability to keep up. Because I'm not seeing a ton of these out in the wild. I mean, they're all going into homes. I truly think they're going to homes. Oh, yeah. And it's a brand new – like this is brand new people. Like I'm getting calls from people like, I know you know Zach at Flip N Out Pinball. I've got a friend that's never owned a pinball machine. Their first one they want is Harry Potter. Can you hook me up? I messaged Zach. I'm like, when can I get one? And he's like, good luck. Yeah. Well, you know, but, but because Zach's not okay here, here is one huge positive thing about Zach. He's not going to lie to you. There are a lot of people who will lie to you. I saw this in the construction industry where people will overbook their jobs and they'll be like, oh yeah, we can do that when they know they can't. And so they'll come and they'll, they'll be working your job and three other jobs. So they're there one third of the time just trying to float to pretend like they're doing something when the bottom line is they overbooked. Yeah. Zach's not going to do that. Zach's going to tell you, hey, this is what's going on. And even the even J.J.P. is not giving us accurate updates on what are what we can expect. Now, what's the pros and cons of this? So the pros, well, this is a little bit like the CGC model where CGC is a little more along the model of we would prefer to have a steady production schedule and people will get the games when they get them and they're willing to wait for quality. then totally expand their manufacturing, blow out a whole bunch of games in three months, and then collapse their workforce and having to lay people off. Because, you know, there's only so many games you're going to sell, right? Right. So I would say the plus of this is Harry Potter seems to be a bona fide hit. It seems to be a fun game. It seems to be well-designed. Eric did a great job. Oh, always. Yeah. And it's brilliant. It looks beautiful. And really, regardless of whether or not you're getting the collector's edition or the arcade or the wizard edition, you will be happy with all three of those. So I appreciate that they have a quality product. And the bottom line is people are going to wait for a quality product like that. It's it will be available when it's available. So I would rather them do this than scale up so aggressively and not be able to sustain that because the question is always going to be what is after Harry Potter? Because Harry Potter is – it was like that unobtainable license that they were able to get. Yeah, yeah. I think it's a rock and a hard spot. I'm going to tell you why. So with Jersey Jack Pinball, they've got a bona fide hit. We all know that. They are, the line is cooking for the next foreseeable future, at least in the next year, I would say next year, easily next year. Typically, J.J.P. does about every nine months. And granted, with Harry Potter, that was pushed back two months because of licensing restrictions is what we were told. so looking at we have right now when when a pinball company any pinball company makes a deal with these people to make a product based off of their license they have a certain time window that they can uh that they need to reveal by um or renew the license or renew the license but there is there is a contractual obligation to hit a certain window and there is grace right like we all know there's problems covet happens you know parts happen like it there's grace there right like it's not like hard and fast with most of these licensors because they know that this is a very labor-intensive product that is not just a toilet putting on a shelf but here's the thing so if you're cooking on harry potter's and you're good to go till spring at least what do you do do you keep making harry potter's and you convince the licensor for the next license just to push back another three to six months do you do you reveal and cut short maybe harry potter sells because here's the thing too is like harry potter's still selling but you would literally have to stop the line when you're cooking and be like okay well now we're switching everything over to the new game and then you're producing the new game not knowing how it's going to perform so it's it becomes this catch-22 of like do you keep making what you know is working or do you move on and hope that that works and then you just come back to harry potter when you have an opportunity how many games is stern producing simultaneously yeah but stern has three massive lines okay okay but four actually there's a fourth one okay that's that's a difference for But yeah, there's three for sure. Okay. Always go. But they're already changing the line a little bit because they have the collector's edition, and then they have to change it for the wizard, and then they have to change it for the arcade edition. So now it depends. I would suspect – I have no inside knowledge on this, but I would suspect that they scheduled this for a double release window. Okay. To say that we are not – this is not a nine-month window. This is at least an 18-month window. I would suspect we're not going to hear the next Harry Potter – the next J.J.P. release until maybe Expo of next year. I truly feel that. If not, they can certainly make something and have it out. But having a line simultaneous, okay, this week we're going to run whatever their next game is. and then we'll go back, we'll do Harry Potter for two weeks. And so you can still develop a catalog, which would be smart too to say, hey, we don't just have one game, we have two or three games that you can get. So that would be smart if they were able to do that. But to not negotiate an extended window for something like Harry Potter, I think would be criminal. And the fact that we know they paid, this is by far the most expensive license. So if you're going to pay that much for a license, there's going to be a lot of contingencies on anticipating that this is going to be a long-term license. So I'm not too worried about JJP because this is a little bit like, it's like Guns N' Roses, but I think they learned a lesson in Guns N' Roses because Guns N' Roses, they kept writing Guns N' Roses until it was done, right? Yeah. But Harry Potter, I think, will have longer legs than Guns N' Roses. It'll be a little bit like Wizard of Oz. Like, how long were they producing Wizard of Oz? They were producing it for a long time. Long time, and then they kept going back to the well. And then they kept going back. So I would think that whenever they decide to release the next game, they will still be making Harry Potter 2 to 1 on the next game and they'll probably be making it like that for the foreseeable future yeah I agree alright so we're expecting Harry Potter at Expo we're not expecting anything new revealed there Spooky I don't think they're revealing anything at Expo Spooky does what Spooky does they do it the best the way that they do it I guarantee, well not guarantee I guess I'm going to highly Educatively guess we're going to See their next heavily rumored game Beetlejuice in December With them wrapping up Evil Dead by the end of December and getting on the line in January Beetlejuice What do you think Scott sound about accurate That makes sense spooky doesn't do Simultaneous they don't If there's one company that That they're going to make the same game Until they're done it's typically Spooky and it's they're doing two games At once like Looney Tunes and yeah Yeah, but that's the same layout. You know what I mean? Yeah. They're not known for swapping out at the speed at which – I mean, Stern can turn over the line in a day or a few hours. They'll wheel a few things in, and they'll be like, okay, this is what we're doing. Spooky is not that. It's a smaller company. Again, they know who they are, and they know what their market is, and so they're really good at tailoring to the market. So they focus on this is the next game, and when they come out, yeah, they can kind of work a few magic things, but there's no chance they're going to be releasing anything right now. Spooky just has found the sweet spot where they are not competing with anybody else for their launch windows. They're not. They're just releasing the games when they're done, and from what I hear, Evil Dead is a hot seller, so good for them. What a great game Well it set out in March I mean they revealed in December taking orders in what halfway through December maybe beginning of January And then they were sold out by the TPF in March. So good for them. What a great way of doing it. Yep, I agree. More power to them. Love those guys over there. Very down to earth people. I've always enjoyed it. If you haven't seen things that go bump in the night, it's their documentary. But it's just a really good one. And I'm excited to see them there. I'm excited to get my hands on the Evil Dead. Play this. I'm hearing the top three games for 2025 is King Kong, Harry Potter, and Evil Dead. I think that's amazing because, I mean, arguably, I mean, Spooky's a mom and pop. They very present themselves as that way. And you're running with the, when you're competing on a level of the, uh, the size of stern and people feel that your product is on par or better than what is being produced at that level. You're doing something right. Yeah. All right. Let's talk about, there is going to be a new reveal at expo though. Um, from American pimp. Nope. Sorry. Not American pinball orbit orbit games. Uh, we did talk about some of this in the Patreon exclusive content of stuff that we can't talk about here. So we're going to focus mostly on Whirlaball. You've now seen this. They posted it on their socials. Okay, what is this thing? It looks like a skeeball. I put it here on the screen with us. It looks like a skeeball bowler. I don't know. Like you roll the ball up it and it rolls back at you. Like I don't fully understand what this is, Scott. I don't at all. Okay, Josh. if you are an arcade and you are trying to decide what to put in your location what is the biggest concern that you're going to have with the game uh maybe maintenance and getting parts okay how about space uh space too yeah real estate there's definitely a term behind the scenes of like yes profitability per square footage right yeah and so yeah you by the what you're a hundred percent right on, on also being able to like maintain it. So I look at this game, I'm thinking, okay, so if I'm running an arcade, do I want to buy something like this? Or do I want to buy like a Roth thrills game that has no maintenance and people put a dollar in and they're shooting giant space aliens or playing giant Pac-Man or something. Right. And, and so is it possible that they're going to sell any of these maybe but to make it in today's arcade you either need to have a ticket redemption option that's one thing or you need to have like an over-the-top raw thrills type thing where you're playing space invaders but your screen is is 12 feet tall right and you're shooting it with it with a laser beam or you're playing a giant Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles game or something like that. Something that's over the top. I'm sorry, Josh. This thing looks like it came out of an 80s arcade that was. It really does. You're being generous at 80s. I want to feel pre-80s, man. This thing is looking like 70s, 60s. This does not scream excitability to me. So I've looked at the thing. It says you can have up to six players. I don't fully understand that. um i just i assume it gives out tickets because i know skeeball gives out tickets yeah but do you know how big a skeeball is skeeballs are huge i actually looked at getting one for my downstairs and like when i look it would have taken up basically the width of one and a half pinball machines and it's like eight to twelve feet long that that's a huge amount like am i going to am i going to put that in my arcade when like okay at lagoon which is our uh you know which is our seven uh whatever uh the six flags or whatever and they have an arcade there and i i walked through it a few times it used to have it used to have like you know pac-man all that kind of stuff and uh and pinball machines all it has now is raw thrills games that is a hundred percent what it has it is either ticket redemption or raw thrills or something like that yep i can't imagine how this thing fits into it no i agree so yeah look in this flyer it says it has nine balls you can play up to six players score score multipliers mini games bonus rounds under three what the crap does that say i'm sorry three lanes under three both wider three foot lanes i apologize this tells me nothing of what this is and it does look like it has a little bit of a ticket redemption thing here in the bottom i just i'm not excited for this thing at all like it and i guess it's at expo so play it and we'll give our thoughts on it but yeah i'll be interested to see because i i can't figure out how this is even remotely related to pinball it's tangentially related to arcade but 100 related to ticket redemption so you know i guess the next thing we can uh we can we can check out is like the punching bag uh you know the the punching bag so how hard you hit a bag for a ticket or that little time the time the bleeping light so you can get uh you can get tickets and that's it's it's so far away from pinball that i don't even understand it i agree too um it's just it's kind of kooky um i did have someone because this has been being like rumored for a little bit now. Sure. And so to see them actually say, hey, this is, this is revealed. So the person asked because it was a quick Google and they found that Franklin Sports, you know, the people that make like little yard games and stuff like that, released a game called World Ball. So not World O Ball, but World Ball a few years back. Do you think they're going to run into licensing issues where it's that similar? And it's like a skeeball looking game. It's like a tabletop ski ball for Whirlball, where this is like Whirl-O-Ball, but it's three foot wide apparently and huge. It's just – I don't know. We'll see how this is – yeah. I figured out American Pinball. Okay? American Pinball, it seems like an AI-driven imagination on how I'm going to make an arcade company. And so they've come up with these like they look like illusions of games like the pinball. The pinball always felt pinball adjacent. It was good, but not great. Right. And this feels like, OK, now we're going into ticket redemption. This seems like OK, but not great. There's nothing that makes me look at this and say, I'm going to buy this for my location. and it just it just feels like a company is that has really no connection to the audience is making products and hoping that people will dump eight thousand dollars on this thing i don't get it yeah i don't either and and is it eight thousand dollars i don't know someone said five okay there's not been a price that's been floated out there but still five thousand five thousand is a lot of money for someone just to randomly say hey i have no idea what this thing is, I'm going to buy it. Let's move on to Pinball Brothers. They're coming over from across the pond. They're bringing Predator with them. You have until December to decide if you want this game. This is another game that Zach does carry at Flip N Out Pinball. If you like what you see, you can talk to him. I think this just looks like a wide-body version of Whirlwind that's been tweaked and a giant jungle theme on it. I will play it. You and I are definitely going to seek this out. Because we saw that and the unfortunately the the approved licensing versus what was actually put out was was confusing because apparently there's a there's a lot of challenges about even using Arnold's image at all. I believe you can't use his face at all. You can't use his face. You can use his chest, apparently. Yeah. Well, OK, fine. But the one streaming thing had a non-approved code that had Arnold's face in it, which was interesting. So I'll be curious to see how the live version of the game is going to be and see what we're actually going to play. I know people liked Alien. I thought it was okay, but it wasn't something I was super interested in. So we'll see how it holds up. And it certainly may hit that nostalgia mud for someone who's interested in having it down. Yeah. Yeah, pretty much wraps it up for me for that. But I would say this is like one of those incomplete grades because you and I haven't played this game. And we want to go and see it before we can tell you what we think about it. And by the way, if you see us at ExpoLine, for the most part, I try to wear a Loser Kid hat so people can recognize me and come up and tell me things that I should check out. And so I will be there with a Loser Kid hat. We usually have some swag in our backpack that we can hook you up with. And so if there's something that we are missing, please go and seek us out. And also, again, reminder, we have our little seminar, the content creator seminar that it's Friday. Correct, Josh? Correct. At 11. At 11 o'clock. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say you should also check out the gentleman that I can't find his name on TikTok. I do apologize. I'm going to get a message from him probably tomorrow. But the gentleman that did the voice acting for Arnold, he did like a Pink Pony Club version. But it's all Arnold Schwarzenegger singing because he does the voice for Arnold. It was pretty awesome. I'm not going to lie. It was pretty funny. But yeah, if I find his name, I'll post it. All right, let's move on to on our notes. We've got no big thing. Yeah, no big thing. So the rumor is this rumor hit strong. What about three weeks ago? Two weeks ago. Big Bang Bar is the next remake from Pedretti. Maybe again. Rumor. Allegedly. Yeah. When I'm talking about this, all the context is rumor. uh i've been told now regardless there's no remake coming from pedretti at expo so there's another uh i don't know maybe maybe not but i'm being told it's not going to be there so have you played a big bang bar live like not not the not the video version have you played it a live one no and that's the crazy part you know how many people i've talked to that it's like i've never even seen this in in like the flesh i've never i've been this hobby for 14 years now 12 that owning a pinball machine and i've never seen one of these in the flesh and i've talked to high level competitive players that are like yeah i've never seen one either because they only made what 192 of them it was a small amount is that 118 so is that including the gene cunningham version too so yeah the original run was 10 from capcom sure and then they i wanted to say they had made enough boards and parts to do like 118 or 190 i know it's a big swing on the number there but um and then gene had bought them up and decided to make them uh and even back then it was i mean mid 2000s and he was only asking like 4500 and yeah he actually lost an acre oh yeah he made them and lost money it's an interesting guy i'll put it that way again when pigs fly go check out the write-up it was it's really interesting how even it got made so i yeah i don't know if people just never bring these out i i think i have a better chance of playing kroll than i have a playing big bang bar yeah it's weird and they're worth so much money i think that's another thing too people don't want to bring them out and get them scuffed up when they're worth here's the thing though people that own these right and granted if you all own one and it was like a grail that's sitting in your corner i don't think money really matters much you on the value of it Cause it's like, well, I have my grow pin, but those that are like sitting on this to make money, you might want to start selling it now. Yeah. Cause it's going to drop. It definitely is going to take a hit. The, uh, well, medieval madness did too, but I would argue that medieval madness saying back, what, uh, eight years ago they were going for $15,000. Yeah. And so, and by the way, that is, they still are. They still are. It depends on the addition and stuff like that. Okay. Yeah. But $15,000 for a stand, a standard williams edition that was made in 1998 or 1999 okay yeah so now you're getting the bells and whistles with the merlin edition you're getting all the bells and whistles okay so it's a it's a different game but uh yeah this is again i don't know if there's an appetite for this i don't know it's not like cactus canyon which by the way i think cactus canyon is a fun game and with the new kit that i by the way we're working on i got the kit i'm i still haven't get it uh gotten a chance to install it so we definitely want to review it um i've been so busy i apologize but even bringing the kit to it it makes it a better game or at least it gives it more stuff to do so what is i don't think it feels kind of dated the kits are surprisingly cheap compared to everything else okay 100 you're paying for a topper or you have the topper and then yeah yeah and this godzilla topper right here was a thousand bucks okay there's nothing to the game it's cool i i like it i'm a topper guy but it's it's eye candy okay this is functional candy that makes the game a lot better a lot different oh yeah 100 so yeah i i if you have a cactus canyon find the 250. I don't see a reason why not. I'm surprised they didn't go higher. Huh? For the kit? It wasn't 250 bucks. Are you sure? Okay. I'll find them. Okay. Well, I way overpaid if it was 250. No, it's not. I'm 100% sure on this, but I'm going to fact check myself. All right. Here you go. I've got it pulled up right here, dude. So you've got to slip it out, pinball.com. You click shop. You press Chicago Gaming Company Games. There you go. And the very top right, Cactus Canyon Pinball Alignment Sheets Upgrade Kit, $250. Do you think that's wrong? Yeah, I do. Hey, Zach, maybe you need to fix. Oh, this is a pre-order deposit. The deposit is non-refundable. Okay, thank you. The $250 part of the total price of the game. Oh, my gosh. Seriously, yours is like. Under it, too? yeah 1250 right there okay wow okay you were making me question i was like no way it's not 250 250 deposit yes yes okay all right you're gonna think we had a lot of dead time in that because josh was making me uh question my uh my grasp on reality but yeah i apologize it was it was 1250 okay okay josh again this topper right here is but again thousand bucks the topper is a thousand bucks and it doesn't change the game this makes it a completely new game because when i look at this okay let's just run down what is part of this kit so this is let's see uh so you know this is the jaw sharp Lyman F. Sheats Jr. 10 new modes two enhanced modes it has so it has a lot of saloon fights, it does the beer cup thing on the side, drunken multiball, saloon party, martial high news. There's a lot of stuff there that you're going to change the game. And to be okay full disclosure go and listen to you know Joel Because Joel had this for a while and he played it and the bottom line is he thought with the kit this made it more fun than medieval madness yeah okay yeah so that a big deal by the way my kids favorite game is medieval madness and there's a lot of reasons for that it's accessible it's straightforward they can understand what they're doing and the castle freaking blows up okay it's so freaking laser freaking laser sharks but uh okay making a game that is more complete and era specific is is important and the nice thing about this kit is it does feel like it's an upgraded version of a 90s game because and that's the challenge you're um This was where I think Monsters kind of ran into an issue is that it was kind of a modern version of a game that was trying to feel like a 90s game. But people didn't make that connection. But it really should have been. It should have been in that same era. And this is an upgrade kit for Cactus Canyon that makes it a better version of the classic game. I agree. All right, let's move on. The last note I have on here is pinball legends, these statues that Planetary Pinball, along with DPX, Dutch Pinball, is bringing to you these statues brought from Bally Williams Classics. Oh, and also it's the art from Lior Mods based out of Israel. Sure. Sure. Sure. Uh, or do you want to start with these? Um, I'm okay. I want to pull up the pictures again. Okay. You pulled the pictures. I'm going to, so, um, I was really like confused because they started releasing these on a Saturday. So I was like, so we're releasing these, like probably arguably the worst day to release any content. Right? Like, so the first one revealed the funny part is like the, the way that the picture was done um it just looked it looked weird and then when it finally revealed and it's a statue of the circus voltaire ringmaster with like the lady ringmaster in his hand i don't know i can't remember what her name is i was like okay like this isn't bad this isn't terrible we're not getting any pricing from this and then number two released and was the genie from totem and i'm like yeah like it's if this is what floats your boat cool like this it's not a terrible idea and then we started getting weird right like day three so they're these are releasing day after day after day and uh number three is the troll from medieval madness but the interesting part is you only really see the head of the troll i know there's like they're they're in the back class right but they took some liberties of like giving them like high top converse sneakers and like metal knee pads and just it was kind of i guess there's a little goofiness to there but it just it looks it looks it's not my favorite and then the fourth one revealed and it was the attack for mars martian and it looks awkward to me because it's like it's got like this angry pose and it's holding a cerebral ball but for some odd reason like it looks like this really mad ticked off coming at you martian and then his fourth hand is giving himself bunny ears bunny ears yeah and you're like okay so where are you finding the pictures because i'm actually literally looking and when i when i try to type this stuff in do you know it's all it's all via carrie hardy they did this all via carrie hardy okay check out our friend carrie hardy's facebook page and then the fifth one hit and i'm like we're still doing this like this is still a thing and um it was oh what is his name it's it's the gentleman from party zone the main guy you know the guy with the chin and the this the propeller hat and everything like that and i was just like i finally texted her i'm like dude how many more of these are there because these are just they're getting worse like they're just in my opinion they're not my favorite like i get art is upset objective i would not buy any of these to put on my shelf i just don't feel like any of these stand out right and then the whole last one dr dude and dr dude holds a a special place in my heart there's a funny story behind that we'll talk about some other time uh but the interesting part about dr dude his pants are a little taunt on the statue and i'm like who wants a who wants a happy to see a dr dude sitting on their shelf i don't it's just really weird and when i texted carrie carrie's like well today's the last one for series one i'm like you're telling me there's more of these oh and then he reveals there's six more on top of the six he revealed going to be okay is it just in his patreon i don't think so i could have swore he put them on his facebook page okay well i'm on they look i i don't know they're just there's something else dude they are they're not what i i sent them in our chat you can look at them through our chat but we do talk a lot so they're probably buried in there yeah just look under attachments under like shared links and stuff like that yeah these are weird they're totally weird they're different they're uh so for the big one so it doesn't even really give a size from what i could tell it said a sixth the scale is worth 300 and a 12th the scale is 90 bucks so i just i don't know I know that Colin from Kineticis and This Week in Pinball, he gave his little ideas and thoughts on them. He attributed some of this to his Roger Sharp figurine that he did. Was that last year? Shortly after X, but last year. I just, I don't know. Are we at that point of the hobby? I just feel like this is to niche upon niche, right? Okay. Now, there's always a danger when you have these things. I can't even find these pictures. I remember seeing them. Was this you personally or was this? It was in Triple Drain. Yeah. There's our big secret. We've been talking with Triple Drain. Yeah, yeah. We've talked about it all the time. But here's the other thing too. So, okay, I think these could be successful on a point. And here's the reason is if you focus mainly on the virtual arcade people and you start pushing these through Zen studios and stuff like that. And it might be successful on a pinball enthusiast level. But like video game people, they love statues. There is full secondary market people that make a living off of building limited edition statues based out of your favorite games and they're licensed, like Luigi's Mansion or Beyblade or whatever it may be. Maybe we're at that point, but I think if you're going to reach a bigger audience, it's definitely going to be through Zen Studios than it is through the pinball enthusiast. I don't know. You can also look at $300 isn't a lot of money for a statue to a pinball enthusiast. I mean, may now nowadays the economic situation we're in, but overall they're just, I don't know, like you were saying behind you, like the toppers are a thousand bucks. So maybe 300 bucks for a statue isn't a big deal. And collecting all these would be cool to someone. I don't know. They're just not for me. If they're for you. Cool. Like that's all. That's cool. But what do you think, Scott? So I do have, I do have some pinball related stuff. Right. That is kind of fun. I was able to get an awesome Sparky, original Sparky that I have in my area. I have like some Rush bobblehead dolls. I have a Godzilla, Mechagodzilla, and I'm looking over here, just all my pinball stuff. I have the GTF lunchbox, you know, and the Sentinel head and little just random stuff, which I think are kind of fun. But they're also game related, right? Yeah, yeah. So it's just kind of fun to have them because I can see them, but it's not crazy. crazy now i i i fully admit the biggest mistake that you can make in evaluating things is to say this isn't for me therefore it's not going to be a sale oh 100 yeah yeah so now this is probably not for me but i can see some people who want to buy the stuff and there are people who have full on like the Star Wars collectors who have every single toy and they get like three versions of it so they can have one in a sealed package one that they open up and put in a display case and one that they can open up and play with right so are those people like the ones who are going to be doing these things and so great to be blunt I just wish they looked cooler they look kind of like silly and they kind of do and so like i wish that like okay if you look at so looking at i'm looking across from me so my cgc toppers so i have the attack from mars topper which the guy looks awesome right it's one of the best toppers in pinball you look at the uh at the medieval madness topper where they just look great and even like the monster bash topper which is probably the less great one but they still look pretty good because you have dracula which looks like he's wearing black lipstick but i don't it just feels like when you're comparing them to those toppers it feels like they've missed something they they're going for campy and not cool yeah kind of trying to draw they try to get that line and it it definitely crossed over so maybe uh i i'm curious but i am curious because just because i'm saying i'm not going to buy him josh is saying he's not going to buy them doesn't mean they're not going to sell so i'm really curious now i also thought the same thing about the roger sharp figuring i thought the roger sharp figuring was cool but like for my budget everybody has to figure out what they're going to sell i thought it was like 30 cool or 20 cool i didn't think i can't remember what they sold for but they sold for a lot more than that i thought well there was two different prices one was if it was signed by roger and then the other one was if it was just him by himself yeah okay but either way i mean it's it was cool it was like a total like 1970s star wars figure that's exactly what it looked like so um i'm i'm curious though if you are in the market to buy these things please tell me what i'm missing hey let's take a moment so this is a good good pivot moment so um i i'm sitting down but if i raise my shirt up you can see pinball studio pinball studio shirt okay so let's give the pinball studio a shout out let's let's talk a little bit about them josh yeah uh we want to thank sternly martin he sent us the swag stuff a couple weeks ago it's a tournament only location in georgia but he started up his own podcast he's doing really really good stuff i'm enjoying what i'm hearing out of him yeah man what else did you want to say about uh well and i did see on Facebook that they were looking at, you know, it sounds like the pinball studio, the location is a membership thing. I mean, he had an open membership. And so I, it's nice to know that there are people who are still doing these boutique places because a lot of people have, they either are private collectors and have a small amount, or they are like me and they are collectors, but they've run out of space and be people being able to have a collective area and being able to, to join like a bigger community so they can share their games. Um, I'm not sure if that's exactly what, what he's doing, but either way, being part of a little pinball club is a great way of developing the community of pinball because pinball is a social game really. Like I love playing pinball down here alone, but it's way more fun to be playing with other people. And so definitely check him out, give a, give his podcast a little shout out and we definitely are looking forward to, do you know if he's coming to expo? I can't remember. I can't remember. Yeah, it's a good question. If you see someone wearing the pinball, you know, this, this rainbow shirt, the pinball studio, go ahead and shout them out. Give, give them a, give them a chat. Yeah, for sure. I think that does it for episode, Scott. I'm flying in Tuesday, but I'm going to spend down. I'm going to downtown on Wednesday. So I'll be around pretty much Thursday for the rest of Expo. You're coming up Thursday, right, Scott? I'll be flying in Thursday. So I'm taking a morning flight and I should be there. Okay. So I am flying in Thursday and I should be landing about 1230. So I'll pick up my car. I'm staying at the embassy suite. So if you're over to the Embassy Suites across and let me know, I'll be staying there with Marc Silk and we'll be driving across and checking things out. Now, what where are some things that we are likely to be? We know that we are going to be at the at our seminar on Friday, 11 a.m. Yep. And there's also like, isn't there some events at night? So media mixer, we're going to be at this week in pinball media mixer, the Kinez, this one column puts on every year. This is his third year. Yeah, we'll be there. That's Thursday night, right? Thursday night. I want to say like six to nine in the ball. Other than that, I don't really have much more plans outside of whatever pops up. We'll be around, but we're going to be popping in and out of seminars. I highly recommend the Dwight Let's Make a Deal. It's the last seminar on Saturday night. And he certainly, if there's someone who's wired to be a combination dungeon master, game show host, it is Dwight. So definitely meet that. But we will be walking around. I'll be with my son. So keep it clean when you come up and talk to me. And, you know, hopefully Josh and I will probably be together most of the time. But either way, reach out and talk to either of us. We'd love to see you. Yep. And if you're looking for good food, I recommend, personally me, everyone's going to tell you Luz. I like Giordano's better. The all-meat pie, deep dish, delicious. I'm actually a bigger fan of Portillo's than in Johnny Beef. I know a lot of people are going to be upset about that as well. But they do an Italian sausage, and they put it in the Italian sandwich as well. Okay. And I think that's delicious. Wait, wait, wait. Didn't we go with Dennis and Tony, and you were the only one without a sausage in your sandwich? That was 2021. I've been back like four times since, dude. So, yes. But Johnny's Beef is really good. I think they're a really good Italian beef sandwich. I think Portillo's has the really delicious Italian beef with sausage sandwich. So there's that. Yeah, but yeah, say hi to us. Come say. I know there's plenty of you already excited. You've said in the comments, excited to meet us and everything. Don't be afraid to come up and talk to us. I'm hoping that I didn't get to order a new stack of stickers, but I think I have enough that I'll just have in my bag. And if that's your thing, come up and hit me up and I'll be able to hook you up. same here so uh other than that um if you want to get a hold of us we're loser kid pinball podcast on gmail.com honestly if you want the most interaction with us facebook is probably the best place but we are on all the socials so instagram x threads all the jazz right you're watching via youtube we appreciate you doing that um and hit like subscribe leave comment all that jazz uh scott give us our final words you know i'll see you at expo come up and say hi you

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 847e07ed-1093-4c2f-9c41-23d2b469ed53*