# The Pinball Show Ep 151: How Many People Are Buying New Pinball Machines?

**Source:** The Pinball Show  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2024-04-22  
**Duration:** 79m 27s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://www.thepinballnetwork.net/e/the-pinball-show-ep-151-how-many-people-are-buying-new-pinball-machines/

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## Analysis

Zach Minney and Dennis Creasel discuss Stern Pinball production updates including Jaws and Elvira Premium delays, Black Knight Sword of Rage Pro rerun announcement, and speculation about the next cornerstone title (rumored to be John Wick). They debate market penetration by estimating what percentage of their 6,000 listeners purchase new pinball machines annually, with Zach estimating 16.6% and Dennis skeptical at 5-10%. The episode also covers Blues Brothers announcement from Home Pinless and broader industry trends.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Jaws Premium got delayed, expected to resume production this week — _Zach reports official Stern production schedule updates_
- [HIGH] Stern has no plans to build James Bond until next year — _Zach states this as confirmed from Stern communications_
- [HIGH] Black Knight Sword of Rage Pro is getting a rerun in June with topper reissue — _Zach confirms this was announced last week and that he was contacted by Stern about the decision last year_
- [HIGH] Flipping Out Pinball received higher-than-expected allocation response for Black Knight Pro (double what was anticipated) — _Zach reports from his distribution company experience_
- [HIGH] Home Pinless announced Blues Brothers as their next licensed pinball game — _Zach reports official announcement from last week_
- [MEDIUM] The next Stern cornerstone title is rumored to be John Wick, but unconfirmed — _Zach states 'the rumor is still John Wick' but has received no confirmation, mentions Tim Sexton may be on code_
- [HIGH] Stern Jaws Pro and Premium were delayed from end of April delivery — _Zach reports production schedule slippage, likely due to parts supply_
- [LOW] Of their 6,000 listeners, Zach estimates 16.6% (approximately 1,000 people) purchase a new in-box pinball machine annually — _Zach presents this as speculation; Dennis disagrees and estimates 5-10%_

### Notable Quotes

> "The rumor is still John Wick. That's still the most front-runner for rumors. I've not heard it's not John Wick. I've not received any confirmation that it is John Wick."
> — **Zach Minney**, ~34:30
> _Confirms ongoing speculation about next Stern cornerstone title while emphasizing lack of official confirmation_

> "I'm just itching for something new. There are rumors out there that it's a designer that we don't know of, really. A stealth designer?"
> — **Zach Minney**, ~35:45
> _Indicates speculation about unknown designer involvement for unannounced Stern game_

> "I think the topper is probably in large part responsible for driving this because it is one of the most popular toppers that has come out of any major pinball manufacturer."
> — **Dennis Creasel**, ~26:00
> _Attributes Black Knight Pro rerun success to topper popularity, indicating product differentiation strategy_

> "I'm assuming it's based off of demand from distributors, so it's probably a good idea."
> — **Dennis Creasel**, ~23:45
> _Explains rationale for Black Knight Pro rerun based on distributor feedback_

> "Of the 6,000 listeners to this show, I believe that 16.6 repeated percent of them... buy a brand new in-box pinball machine, at least one every year. So 1,000 listeners."
> — **Zach Minney**, ~47:30
> _Presents market penetration estimate for engaged podcast listener demographic_

> "I would put it at no higher than 10% of the listener base, and I think it's closer to 5%."
> — **Dennis Creasel**, ~48:00
> _Counters Zach's estimate with more conservative market penetration prediction_

> "There's just something about a new Stern title that just gets my pinballs magnetized if you know what I mean."
> — **Zach Minney**, ~33:15
> _Expresses enthusiasm cycle tied to Stern announcements, indicating hype pattern_

> "We're still waiting for Venom accessories and Jaws accessories. Those are really kind of the thing that enthusiasts are most looking forward to."
> — **Zach Minney**, ~31:00
> _Identifies accessory announcements as major community interest point_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Stern Pinball | company | Major manufacturer with ongoing production delays on Jaws and Elvira Premium, planning Black Knight Sword of Rage Pro rerun |
| Zach Minney | person | Co-host of The Pinball Show, operator of Flipping Out Pinball distribution company |
| Dennis Creasel | person | Co-host of The Pinball Show, provides market analysis and industry perspective |
| Black Knight Sword of Rage | game | Stern title receiving Pro-only rerun in June; topper reissue being released alongside |
| Jaws (Stern) | game | Current hot title at Stern; Pro shipped, Premium delayed, accessories pending |
| Elvira (Stern Premium) | game | Scheduled for production end of April to May 2024 |
| James Bond (Stern) | game | Recent fulfillment completed; no plans to build again until 2025 |
| Home Pinless | company | Announced Blues Brothers pinball as next licensed title |
| Blues Brothers | game | Licensed Home Pinless title recently announced; nostalgia-driven theme from 1970s film |
| Flipping Out Pinball | company | Zach's distribution company; received higher-than-expected dealer allocation requests for Black Knight Pro |
| John Wick | game | Rumored unconfirmed next Stern cornerstone title; most prominent rumor but unconfirmed |
| Metallica (Stern) | game | Mentioned as possible but unlikely candidate for next cornerstone title |
| Bluey | game | Mentioned as possible but unlikely candidate for next cornerstone title |
| Tim Sexton | person | Rumored to be coding next Stern cornerstone title; previously worked on Black Knight Sword of Rage code |
| John Borg | person | Prominent Stern designer; speculation about whether he might code next cornerstone title |
| The Pinball Show | organization | Podcast with approximately 6,000 listeners; hosts Zach Minney and Dennis Creasel discuss industry trends |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Stern production schedule and delays, Market penetration and new machine purchasing behavior, Next Stern cornerstone title speculation and rumors
- **Secondary:** Black Knight Sword of Rage Pro rerun strategy and demand, Home Pinless Blues Brothers announcement, Accessory and topper announcements as community interest drivers, Listener demographic engagement with new releases
- **Mentioned:** Secondary market and used machine buying patterns

### Sentiment

**Mixed** (0.55) — Zach expresses excitement about upcoming Stern releases and market activity, showing enthusiasm for the cornerstone announcement cycle. However, Dennis is more reserved and skeptical about market saturation and pricing. Discussion of production delays and accessory uncertainty introduces some frustration. Overall tone is positive about industry momentum but with underlying concern about market sustainability.

### Signals

- **[business_signal]** Stern consolidating production around high-performing titles; Jaws Pro/Premium seeing multiple production runs in June; selective rerun strategy with Black Knight (confidence: high) — June schedule shows Jaws Pro and Premium rerun 'because those are selling well, and it's kind of the hot title at Stern right now' plus Black Knight rerun and new cornerstone announcement
- **[community_signal]** Accessory announcements (Venom, Jaws) are primary enthusiasm drivers for enthusiast community (confidence: medium) — Zach notes 'Venom accessories and Jaws accessories. Those are really kind of the thing that enthusiasts are most looking forward to' but admits 'I have no update as to when they're going to announce these'
- **[design_philosophy]** Pro model preference emerging for Black Knight despite historical association with upper playfield Premium variant; community perception shift documented (confidence: medium) — Dennis explains 'it was a tough pill for a lot of people' to prefer Pro, but 'by the time people realized, I think the pro may be actually a good game, it was already discontinued because sales were just poor'
- **[market_signal]** Debate over new machine purchasing penetration among engaged podcast listeners; significant disagreement between hosts on market saturation vs growth (confidence: low) — Zach estimates 16.6% of 6,000 listeners buy new annually; Dennis counters with 5-10%; discussion highlights uncertainty about actual purchasing behavior vs engagement
- **[market_signal]** Black Knight Sword of Rage Pro rerun demonstrates distributor demand validation; higher-than-expected allocation response (confidence: high) — Zach reports 'Over 200 people probably committed initially to sales day one' and 'We had quite a large response to Black Knight Pro, this announcement. Higher than I thought, even, by about double.'
- **[personnel_signal]** Tim Sexton rumored for next Stern cornerstone code; previously worked on Black Knight Sword of Rage (confidence: medium) — Zach states 'rumor is Tim Sexton on code. He was on Black Knight Sword of Rage code, and they were looking to revisit that game'
- **[announcement]** Home Pinless announced Blues Brothers licensed pinball as next title; targeting nostalgia-driven theme appeal (confidence: high) — Zach confirms 'Home Pinless last week announces their next game is the licensed Blues Brothers film as a pinball machine they're coming out with'
- **[product_strategy]** Jaws Premium delayed from end of April; Stern production schedule experiencing parts supply constraints (confidence: high) — Zach confirms Jaws Premiums were delayed, states 'I can only assume parts, but I don't know for sure' and notes they were supposed to be at end of April but delayed to 'next week' (from episode recording date)
- **[rumor_hype]** Next Stern cornerstone title rumored to be John Wick; Tim Sexton rumored for code; alternative rumors include Metallica and Bluey (confidence: medium) — Zach states 'The rumor is still John Wick. That's still the most front-runner for rumors. I've not received any confirmation' and mentions 'rumor is Tim Sexton on code' but emphasizes lack of confirmation
- **[business_signal]** Topper reissues driving sales resurgence for previously underperforming titles; Black Knight Pro topper cited as 'one of the most popular toppers that has come out of any major pinball manufacturer' (confidence: high) — Dennis states topper is 'probably in large part responsible for driving this' rerun and Zach confirms Stern is running the topper again alongside Pro production

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## Transcript

 Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised. The Pinball Network is online. Launching The Pinball Show. This week on The Pinball Show, Dennis and I chat getting your oil changed versus having someone do that for you. No one appreciating how the gold is weaved. Sturm Pinball production updates, the new Sturm Pinball game launch excitement stage commencing, the announcement of Blues Brothers Pinball, Barrels of Fun Labyrinth production update, a new flip-in program from American Pinball, other industry updates, and pinball market trends. The Pinball Show Club members get an extra treat this week with an exclusive segment on what new games are currently worth owning, as well as additional bonus bonus content coming later this week. It's episode 151, y'all, and it's Bust In at the Seams. Pinball is a game of spills. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle. We're so glad to see so many of you lovely people here tonight. It's time for the Pinball Show. Representatives of Illinois' law enforcement community who have chosen to join us here in the house. It's pinball with personality. We do sincerely hope you all enjoy the show. And please remember, people, that no matter who you are and what you do to live, thrive, and survive, there are still some things that make us all the same. You, me, them, everybody. Everybody. Hey, how's it going, everybody? It's the Pinball Show. It's not episode 150.5. No, no, no. It is episode 151. I'm Zach Minney alongside Dennis Creasel. Din Din, how are you today? I'm doing pretty well. The day's going to get better once I'm done talking to you. But, yeah, I gashed my leg open mowing. Oh, no, Dennis. Once we're done, I've got to make sure the wound is staying healthy. Do you lick it? Well, no, because I'm not a chihuahua. I'm just seeing you with your leg up. So what part of your leg? Oh, just right at the ankle. So I picked up a lot of branches. I've got trees. These branches go down in the wind, so I have a pile. And I went and was piling some up, but there was one I missed. And I was trying to get the mowing done before the sun got too low on Friday. The Clint Eastwood, okay. So I'm just going along, listening to my music, pushing my little mower, and there was a stick. Iceberg, right ahead! And it wasn't as off to the side. I think I saw it, but I didn't pay much attention to it. Anyway, I think it hooked into the fence or positioned itself into the ground. And so the end of the branch just gouged up my leg. It's a nutcracker. I'd say it's about six to eight inches long of a gash. Wow. So I was going to keep going, because at first I just saw it skin, you know, looked like it just skinned the leg. And then I'm like, the blood then wells up. And then I'm like, I do another, like, 50 feet. And I'm like, I think this blood's going to fill this sock. Ew. And I'm like, I probably need to sterilize this anyway. You can do blood thinners? No, it wasn't. Once I got in and got it washed up, it took multiple bandages to cover the whole thing. It wasn't deep, but because of sweat or whatever, it was starting to run down the leg, and it was already really close to the shoe. Can you not get somebody to mow your grass? I don't spend money on stuff like that. I know. I just don't get why not. One needs to always remember where one came from. It's the principle. And the very first thing I remember doing for money was mowing. Oh, are you sure it was mowing? What, do you pay people to change your oil, too? If I can get people to do anything like that. Yes, absolutely. You change your own oil? What? Yes. Oh, Dennis Creasel. My time is very important to me, Dennis. Well, if you did it more often, you wouldn't be slow at it. I don't want to. It's like a 15-minute thing. Honestly, if I did that. It takes longer to drive to the Jiffy Lube. I would honestly have to research car lifts and do it proper. And then I'd have to have the highest end oil replacement. That's fair. I mean, I go into my folks' house for that because my dad's got all the little ramps and stuff. So we can go and he can tell me where to pull the car up so I get it lifted up. And I used to just crawl. I used to slide right under the car and not even have to jack it up. One of those little dollies. Just slide in, slide out. Yeah, no, we didn't have anything that fancy. We didn't have it that fancy. Usually they're high enough up. You just have to, you know, I put down like a piece of cardboard, like a pinball box, and then I can just slide under. That sounds horrible. I've been looking for a new vehicle lately. Why do you not like your Prius? No, the Prius was totaled years back. Oh, why do you not like the flipping out van? Because now that we have a dedicated shop, it stays there. So it's away from my living place, and I'm driving my son's car while he's a freshman in college. But come two weeks from now, he's going to be home, needs a vehicle, and we'll take said vehicle back to Purdue. So I'm carless, and I need a vehicle. So if any listeners out there are pretty high up on the food chain with any of these manufacturers and can get me a badass vehicle at a good price, then hit me up at Zach at FlippinOutPinball.com. I wanted to buy something fun, something fun to drive. That's what I'm looking for, something fun, something fast. Okay. I was wanting to get a Vette. That was my – I was going to – for my 40th birthday to myself, this has been a year back. That's a good midlife crisis vehicle. Yes. I thought in my 20s, I was like, you know what? I'm a Corvette guy at age 40. I would love to buy myself a Corvette. But it still only has two seats, so that's just tough because we still have three kids that live with us. Look, but the problem – To truly embrace the sports car stack, I think that might be the choice you have to make. To go full, you know, all right. If you want to compromise, you do what I used to do and say, all right, I'm not going to get a car with four doors. It's going to have two doors. I had that as a rule for a while. Go coupe. Okay. And for a while, I mean, with like three cars. And then I was like, you know what? It's so convenient having more doors. It's roughly with people crawling in the back. That's right. It really is. I had a Camaro in college. It was fun. I've been a Camaro guy whenever I got my license, yeah. I've been there. Yeah, but I've been looking at electric versus gas power. Most of the sports cars aren't going to come electric. Oh, if you're looking at the right ones. There are a few. I think Porsche has an all-electric car now. They do. Yeah, I've been looking at all kinds of vehicles. So we'll see what I get. Well, you'll have to keep the listeners informed. Hopefully your leg heals well and your next oil change goes without black. I don't have to change the oil. You know, I only change the oil every 10,000 miles now with these modern cars and the full synthetic lubricants. You know my life. Like, I don't even know when to change my oil, if the sticker falls. I think the car tells you. I think your car is modern enough. It probably, like, has a light or something. Here's how my life is so damn hectic that yesterday we go look for a vehicle, test drive some vehicles so I can get a feel for the difference between an electric car and a gas combustion car. So we're on our way there, and I think to myself, shit, Nicole, I just had my birthday, and my license is due this year. I don't have a valid driver's license. It has now expired for the last – Whoa, you put that off? I don't remember this shit, Dennis. I have no memory of this. Did they not send you a letter? No, they don't send no letters. And so I'm driving, and I'm like, well, first off, I'm driving illegally. Second, I can't test drive any cars. And so I look over to her thinking, okay, well, we'll cheat. She'll drive it, and then we'll park somewhere, and we'll swap, and then I'll goose it on the interstate and see how this baby really feels. I look over and I could tell as I was going to glance over her Dennis that she had been staring at me with a smile on her face ever since I said my license was expired because yes listener in fact yeah her license has expired too. Oh my gosh. We're busy Pete. So she was like I am so sorry but we're not test driving any vehicles today. Fuck. This is, we got sitters. And people are like, oh, would you like to test drive this new car? No, no, I, no. I just want to sit in the driver's seat and put the sunroof open. That's all. And earlier, I'm so sorry for saying coupe. I've been doing a lot of research and Americans call them coupes, but I guess everywhere else call them coupes. I wonder if they call them toops instead of toupees. Well, I think I said Porsche when I probably should have said Porsche. It's the whole, yeah, it's that whole thing. I wonder if David Dennis up in Canada, he's like a car guy, a weird car guy. I think he drives a Volkswagen or something. I think it's electric, too. Yeah, he's got an all-electric. The only reason I bring up that asshat was because I'll at least admit. Oh, this is exciting. I'm ready for the apology. It's not going to be a full-fledged apology. It's going to be a, you know. This is what happens when Zach seems to be right. We get all of this emotional blowback to suggest that I was wrong. It's like this balance of the force, if you will. So objectively, I believe I was correct in saying what the fuck was 149.5 with David Dennis and tried to ban him from the show forever. And then, of course, what did we get last week? People emailing, no, you know, you're wrong. I quite enjoyed 149.5. Actually, maybe my favorite episode ever. Maybe he should replace it. Like, oh, come on, people. I did see there was one email that thanked you because they would have canceled Patreon if it ever happened again. So it wasn't a total love fest. It was just that was the only person who backed you that I saw. That person was like, I won't go visit my grandma at the nursing home if you continue that shit. I just, I am done. But there were quite a few people that tried to sell it off. as like an intellectual thing. You know, some people enjoy the finer things in life, and that's exactly what 149.5 was. So 149.5, there are some people that loved it. But then again, there are some people that thought Dune 2 was great. So, you know. Oh, oh, man. You didn't like Dune? Oh, Dune, yeah. Oh, I know. That's going to get way more pushback than 149.5, Will. Dune 2 is just a bit... Iconic? Pretentious? Boring? Pretentious? I mean, it's... Oh, it's a fucking sandworm. I could ride it. Okay. I mean... Good for you. What's so special? He rides the sandworm, and then in the next scene, Grandma's riding the sandworm. Like, it's fun and that's... Oh, because he's not one of our sand people. That's why it's so cool. Okay. All right, blue eyes. All right. So you squeeze this worm and you get blue juice and you trip balls. Okay. You know what? Speaking of tripping balls, I'm pretty upset with these individuals. Nobody reached out to us, Dennis, to give us due credit for our episode 150 title. I didn't title it, so there'd really be credit that you wanted for you. This cannot stand. I think it did stand because no one gave any feedback on it. I titled the episode something so clever, wordplay that just simply is not going to organically present itself with the word such as pinball. This can only work in a situation like this, and nobody gave me credit. The episode title, listener, was Trip Pinballs. Trip Pinballs. And if you say it quick, it's Trippin' Balls. Trippin' Balls, which was everything we talked about regarding avatars, ABBA, stealing souls for 80s disco pleasure. And nobody, that is so fucking clever, Dennis. Trip and balls. No one's going to say the title fast without being invited. Like, who says the title? No one stopped and said, what is that? Most people honestly don't even read the title. To be fair, most people don't even read the titles of the episodes. Unless you're going to do kind of like what Final Round does and do like a cutesy poster. Like, they're not going to read it. Listener, I just know I was a bit offended and upset. I mean, that's fair. I sympathize because. Why? What am I doing? What am I doing here working my ass trying to find a nice, clever title for the 150 episode, and people are like, I quite like 149.5 bullshit. Like, come on, people. Tripping Balls. So good. And apparently Craig Bobby's not with us today because he's in a woods tripping balls somewhere. You're not really going to reference the title of the last episode all the way through this one, are you? I'm not. I will not. I'm feeling like you're forcing it. I think you're forcing it now. I think Craig Bobby's on the spice. Can I say that? I guess. Is he playing with a sandworm? Where do we want to go here? I wonder what Craig Bobby drives. A Watham. You want to see him crush it like a Watham? Actually, we're going to cut it right there. Dennis and I just had a nice little conversation for quite some time. For our Patreon members, if you guys want to hear that continued discussion, go to our Patreon, subscribe if you haven't already. It's patreon.com slash the pinball show. Help support and become a club member for $10 a month. Here, exclusive content just like we got like maybe two pieces of content exclusive for Patreon this week, Dennis. That little tangent rant about reading and books and films and stuff, as well as another segment later on this episode. But go subscribe today and support the pinball show. And smash that like button and click the bell if you want to be notified. Oh, wait. That's wrong. That's the wrong thing. Honk my horn, baby. That's the YouTube. That's well. They can do that on YouTube, too. Now, back to business here. Stern Pinball. All right. So what's going on in the production world? Stern Pinball. Over the last couple of weeks, Jaws Pro and Premium were supposed to be made. We got the Jaws Pros. They were rolling out, so everybody's got those. Then it had a little snap. Uh-oh. Shark bit a lure. That's right. Jaws Premiums got delayed. Why? Delay. I don't know. I can only assume parts, but I don't know for sure. but they said it's going to be next week. So the last week or so, we've seen James Bonds that were supposed to be at the end of April get pumped up. So pro and premium James Bonds were fulfilled last week, probably into this week as well. Remember, there are no plans to build James Bond by Stern Pinball until next year. So if you're wanting one of those, jump on those now. But it got delayed, and then Jaws Premium is now going to be on the line, hopefully this week, hopefully this week. And then at the end of the month, we still have Elvira Premium at some point between now and the end of the month as well. So the rest of April is going to be Jaws Premiums and Elvira Premiums. I believe they even said they're going to simultaneously run both titles. So if you've been waiting for Jaws Premium, it is coming just about a week and a half later than we originally thought. And then May is a big smiley face. The Emoji Movie is getting a pinball? That would be bad. Don't have any ideas, American Pinball. We don't. Nobody wants that. No, don't worry. That would be licensed. It's going to be May. It's coming, Justin would say. I think we'll still maybe get an announcement at the end of April. I could be wrong. You must be getting excited for the next course. I am. I'm very excited, actually. June's going to roll through another run of Jaws Pro and Premiums, because those are selling well, and it's kind of the hot title at Stern right now. And then also in June, a new announcement of a game to be remade this last week we heard in Pinball, and that is Black Knight Sword of Rage, just the pro model. They're going to do another run, Dennis, of Black Knight Sword of Rage. This is surprising to me. It's interesting, right? Do you think it's a good idea, bad idea? Is this a what the fuck are they doing? I'm assuming it's based off of demand from distributors, so it's probably a good idea. You're correct to some degree, I would think. Some of us were contacted. When was that? Last year at some point. Contacted by Stern, and they asked me and said, Hey, what do you think about a Black Knight rerun, particularly the Pro? We keep seeing online that people are preferring the Pro and they're liking it. we're thinking about running the topper again. So what do you think about a run of pros? And I said, I don't think it's a horrible idea. I do think you'll sell quite a few. So, yeah, especially if you're going to run the topper again, some accessories. I think the topper is probably in large part responsible for driving this because it is one of the most popular toppers that has come out of any major pinball manufacturer. And I think it took a while for the pinball industry and hobbyists to get their mind around preferring a pro model of a game that is so known historically, a title series for having the upper play field. It was a tough pill for a lot of people. Yeah. So by the time people realized, I think the pro may be actually a good game, it was already discontinued because sales were just poor. So I think that's why I told him the pro run may not be a bad idea. I said, you know, temporary expectations. But I still think you'll sell a handful of hundred of these things. How many do you think they could sell of the pro model? Oh, I mean, I don't want to overstate it. I don't either, but I'm just guessing. Maybe 500. I would say, yeah, anywhere from maybe 300 to 500. Yeah. Even if that means inventorying some, I don't think it's a bad idea. I think initial sales, over 200 people probably committed initially to sales day one. We had quite a large, flipping out pinball distribution company I run. We had quite a large response to Black Knight Pro, this announcement. Higher than I thought, even, by about double. And they were somewhat limited. This is a limited run, so they did allocate to dealers. It wasn't a order what you want. It's, hey, this is about how many we can get you based on whatever method they use to base this stuff on. So, yeah, interesting to say the least. But I'm glad they didn't because I told them I didn't think the premium LE run would make sense at all. I've heard some people say, oh, I wish they would rerun the premium. But honestly, pretty much a minority of that opinion, though. I not heard a lot of people say that some people prefer it but i think for the most part the pro is very much favored in the industry and rightfully so Again a lot of stuff Dennis is going to be not running again until 2025 So it's just, I'm head scratching over here. What, what is Stern? What is up Stern sleeve? We know that we're going to get the next cornerstone in may. And then we got June of that. So they'll probably run new cornerstone may and some in June, July. Yeah. it's going to be an interesting year for Stern Pinball. Okay. Other things to be announced and produced. We're still waiting for Venom accessories and Jaws accessories. Those are really kind of the thing that enthusiasts are most looking forward to. And I can tell you, listener, I as a dealer or even as an insider, I have no update as to when they're going to announce these, what they are, how much they're going to be. I have no clue. So, but if time and past behavior suggests a cadence here, the venom would be up next here in a couple months, summer. And we'd get late summer, we'd get a venom topper. But I don't know. And yeah, you're right, Dennis. I am, I'm starting to get, I doubt you get like this. I don't. Yeah, I doubt it. There's just something about a new stern that I look really forward to. and it used to be like that for me five plus years ago it's still kind of like that with Jersey Jack where it's like I know it's going to be something substantial a new game is substantial by Jersey Jack or by Stern and you know you're going to get it fairly you're not going to be waiting forever so there's just something about a new Stern title that just gets my pinballs magnetized if you know what I mean I don't Okay, you don't. The rumor is still John Wick. That's still the most front-runner for rumors. I've not heard it's not John Wick. I've not received any confirmation that it is John Wick. I've not seen anything to show that it is John Wick or if it's Metallica or if it's Bluey. I have no clue what it could be. I still think John Wick is an interesting pick, but I'm not mad at John Wick, especially have done correctly. I'm just itching for something new. There are rumors out there that it's a designer that we don't know of, really. A stealth designer? That's interesting. It feels like John Borg would be up next, but rumor is Tim Sexton on code. It's, again, a rumor, but... He was on Black Knight Sword of Rage code, and they were looking to revisit that game. I don't know. I just... The weeks leading up to it, I'm like, I just want to see it. I just want to see it. I just want to see it. I want to play it. I'm going to play it because Stern games come out and they always look good for the most part. You know the code is going to be good. There's no bad Stern games really anymore. You know it's going to be working off the Insider Connector. It's going to line up next to the other machines. No one but you cares about that. A lot of people do. Yeah, I know, but I want to make it sound like it's a you thing. It just fits. I love having an open hole for the next Stern. I don't know what it is. Listener, do you feel the same way as I do? Or are you in the bandwagon of everybody else? The cool kids are just oversaturated. Everything's too expensive. I've got my arms crossed if you can't see it, and I'm done buying anything. I'm going to show these people. Who are you? Email us at thepinballshow at gmail.com. You didn't really judge people for not dropping thousands and thousands of dollars on new releases. No, just like anything in entertainment, most of the people lie in between the middle of the extremes there. I don't think so. Instead of buying everything or buying nothing. I think most of the people pretty much buy nothing. I mean, numbers-wise, yeah, that would suggest. Let me ask you this question because it's an interesting hypothetical to me. Okay. What percentage of our regular listener base do you think buys at least one new-in-box pinball per year? That is a great discussion point. That is an awesome question, Dennis. So let's see, 6,000 listeners. So of those 6,000 people, how many buy at least one pinball machine every year? New pinball machine? Yes, new in box. New in box. Yep. Okay. I have an answer. Man, I don't know if I'm high or low, though. Well, of course not. It's all speculative. but this may just mean i am delusional or just an idiot that's the okay so that's my self-reflection on how i'm going to feel either way here and nobody would know would they no no what the answer is i guess there's no way to formulate the closest you could ever do would be to launch a poll ask people who you know have a poll like in the show listeners yeah and then and then what and And, of course, not even half of them are going to respond to the poll, even if we ask them to. So it's like, no, there's no way to know. It's totally speculative. So you'll never be proven wrong. My answer is of the 6,000 listeners to this show, I believe that 16.6 repeated percent of them, that is, I think, one in six of them buy a brand new in-box pinball machine, at least one every year. So 1,000 listeners of our 6,000, I believe, purchase a new inbox every year. Okay. I believe that – actually, I thought you were going to say a higher number than that. Oh, okay. But I still believe your number is too high. I would put it at no higher than 10% of the listener base, and I think it's closer to 5%. Closer to 5%, so 6%, 7%. Now, if we're just, if we want to, this is another Patreon, if we want to, if we want to think about it a little bit, what's our target population there? 6,000 listeners, those are pretty, that's about as, I would argue, let's jump into this. I would argue that those particular 6,000, if we're doing a jury selection here, I believe those are the strongest buying potential of any other subset of the buying population in this industry, those 6,000. And if we know the thousands upon thousands of pinball machines that are sold in the inbox every year, I actually think I may be low on 16%. It may very well be 25% of those particular 6,000 people. I mean, maybe, but I think it's – we have to remember that while the listener base of a podcast in any industry, in any hobby, is going to be arguably more dedicated or more into the hobby than, say, the broad buying public in general. So we don't know how they engaged with the hobby inherently, because a lot of this stuff applies even if they weren't a buyer. Knowing the Stern production schedule could be of interest if they're hoping a location gets a game, for example. Plus, I did have that, as you clarified with me, I had that qualifier, new in-box purchasing. There are plenty of people that will be like, especially now that we're out of the pandemic, Let someone else take the $500 hit on the stern. I want to know when John Wick's going to drop because I know in six months I can get it for less. Yeah, that's true because they could be buying a Godzilla premium, but it's got 200 plays. Yes, yes. And I think a lot of our listeners are in that boat where they're willing to wait a little while, especially if they have access on location to kind of get a taste of a game. And then, well, I would be an example of that. Like I can play any of the Stern stuff. I'll be able to play on location and know if I like it before I would ever commit to buying. And by the time I usually would be at the point to commit, I'd be asking the question, do I want to go ahead and order new or do I want to go ahead and see if I can find one used? Yeah. The analytics to all this is very interesting because then, I mean, if you're zooming out a bit, you're thinking to yourself, okay, well, of the 6,000 listeners, how many of those individuals are part of it? Because my thought is I'm thinking about an LE, a Stern LE, 1,000 units. You've got three releases a year. That's 3,000. What are the odds of somebody buying all three? Not crazy high, but it's still there. So that's 3,000. That's a lot of units. But then pro and premium, you're going to make more than 1,000 of each of those. Just Stern alone, you're looking at 3,000, 6,000, 9,000. If each model is only 1,000 units, that's 9,000 a year. Let's say 10,000 to 12,000 easily. And then all the other manufacturers. And we know they sell. It's not like they're sitting. Those are selling. So, yeah, they're going somewhere. Yeah, but there are a lot of people that also will probably buy games that don't listen to podcasts. Yeah, but how many? Again, people, these are just, we know our listeners are really engaged in the hobby. but that doesn't mean that they're new in box buyers engaged. Yeah, that's... They might be competitive. I don't know why you'd listen to us if you were just into competitive pinball, but to know about the new games and when they're going to come out. Yeah, because competitive pinball people like that too. There's a lot of cross-pollination in it. Okay, I just want to throw it out there as a query. But I am getting very excited for the next Stern launch. There's just something that happens three times a year, and I just love this time. It's right leading up. I feel it, y'all. I feel it. It's getting closer. Well, let me ask you another question. Okay. Are you getting excited about the next HomePin release? Well, excited is a way to explain or describe it. I don't think I'd use excited. I would use surprised. I would like you to be a distributor for HomePin. I don't think I would like to. I would like to see. Then the listeners could compare how you would talk about them pre and post. Well, and that's probably. An interesting experiment. It wouldn't last very long. An interesting experiment. Ah, boy. I've got to be able to put my hands on a HomePin product that I could support. And I don't have much time on those products. I have never played any of their games. There was one TPF, which had Thunderbirds. And unfortunately, the ball was stuck up on the plastic or something when I went to play it. And so I couldn't. And then it was turned off every time I saw it again at the show. So that was the one time I ever encountered one. I think I've played a Thunderbirds once or twice. But I will say they have done a very good job about grabbing licenses where there's a lot of nostalgia. And normally I wouldn't think that with Thunderbirds, but it clearly had a lot of nostalgia in Australia and Europe. And the reason we're bringing it up, listeners, because Home Pinless last week announces their next game is the licensed Blues Brothers film as a pinball machine they're coming out with. the Blues Brothers, which a lot of people have wanted to see. Very Animal House-ish during that time, bluesy stuff, but nonetheless, people have been wanting to see. There have been interested people in Blues Brothers. What about you? It's not a theme I would really gravitate towards. Of course, I've seen the movie. I don't know if I've got through the whole film. It's of its era. It's goofy, though. It's quotable. The music in it's a lot of fun. And I still like the little scene at the end where all the cops are there, and they're trying to sneak in, and you get this big blues number. I'm forgetting the name of the song now. Is this a 70s thing? I don't know when this was. Yeah, I think it came out around 70. Because it felt before my time. I want to say 78, but I don't know. I mean, it's got Aretha Franklin in it. I mean, a lot of, like, I think Hooker is playing the guitar in it. I mean, it had legends, blues legends in it. So just from a musical standpoint, 1980. Okay, it came out in 1980. I think it hits the demographic of pinball buyers. I don't think it's a super strong license, but I think it's in that window. It's in the correct window, kind of like ABBA. ABBA might not be the strongest license for U.S. I'm talking about U.S. Cap Callaway, that's who it was with the number that I like. Cap Callaway. I think the dart hits where it's supposed to in the right timeline of things. It's a little long in the tooth. It would have made more sense to have done this 20 years ago. But it's still, there are a lot of people with money that will love this license. I think it's a smart license, especially for the size that HomePin is. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. If you're HomePin, this is a home run. And unlike the issue with Spinal Tap, the pricing on this is, once again, where I think HomePin needs to be. They actually have a machine under the Stern Pro price. Yeah, this is coming in at a U.S. price range of $4950. $4,950. That's cheap here. It's been years since we've seen a Stern Pro available at $5,000. Okay. But that's like, all right. That's like saying, you know, this bicycle is cheaper than this automobile. Oh, okay. You're right. You're not completely wrong. They both have wheels and they get you to and fro. No, they're both full-size pinball machines, and $2,000 is a pretty big spread, especially when we're starting at that level, that level of pricing. Here's the thing on this. The other detail that we know is manufacturing will start – it's estimated to start in July of 2024, so here in a couple of months. But the talking point is that this is being advertised as the world's first open source commercial pinball machine. That's the talking point here. Under 5000 is a talking point. Blues Brothers is a talking point. But one that I think is more important than all of them is it being the first open source commercial pinball machine. Now, I'm ignorant to this type of jargon. When I hear that, my ignorance just tells me people can code it themselves or can change the codes and you can share those things like homebrew. Yeah, that's my understanding as well. So my assumption in terms of the marketing strategy on this could be the notion that, hey, we take a lot of grief from the pinball enthusiasts that our games aren't fun, like the rules aren't good and all that. Well, you can easily fix them yourself now. Someone could even, I think maybe, I don't know all the legalities of it, perhaps make their own version like the Dennis version of the Blues Brothers Code, and I could sell it. like I could have my own, like a mod. I could sell a software mod. Well, and speaking of, is the National Chain mod pizza? Do you guys have a mod pizza? There might be one around here, but if there is, it's not like a big deal around here. This is what this reminds me of. It reminds me of build your own pizza, and I think this is pretty smart for HomePin, because, man, so on brand for them, too. And I don't want to go into why that's on brand, because it's just long and boring. my analysis there but what i mean is like of we're going to sell you a product and you get to do the work you get you get to make the code and the modes and like you get to do that we're going to call it a benefit because we're going to open source it for you because we are nice people like that and you can share amongst the community your enthusiasm and cleland the fuck out of this thing uh and i think some people are going to do it that's the thing he's making money off other people to work i'd normally say i don't think this is a a very useful move because i don't think they sell enough blues brothers for there to be much of a community to do the development but we have seen the community step up and do all sorts of stuff from as you noted like cleland mods we've got like you know full movie clips put into jurassic park i mean there are people that are willing to do a lot of effort so it only really takes a few and they have a high level of passion And they take pride in that, too. And other people like supporting an underdog. There's some there's some here. If the layout's OK, that this may work. And again, I know because of your you know how you want to compare like what this will be out of the box compared to a Stern Pro. And there will be a big gap. But I do I don't want to. You've spent so much money on pinball. I think you lose sight of the fact that Stern Pro is 40% more than this game. That's a great argument. I get that. 40%. So it's a significantly cheaper machine. Are people really running out to buy the pen versions of Stern, though, at $4,000? No. Okay. All right. But remember, what are all the complaints about it? It's not real pinball. It's a smaller size. It doesn't have the coin door. This is going to be a full-size whatever. You can say what it stands up against isn't a fair comparison, but if it looks like a quote-unquote real pinball machine with a real-sized cabinet and a real-sized backbox and a real coin door and all the rest of it, I've often argued that people won't accept pinball machines that don't have coin doors. That's too fake. You've gone from machine to toy. I will eat crow if the Blues Brother pinball plays better than the home versions of Star Wars or Jurassic Park. I would be shocked if it plays better based off of the reputation of the prior two games. Plus, even today, I read some – I don't remember where it was, but I saw some of the Facebook discussion popping up. And some people were being pretty hard on Home Pin and the Blues Brothers and all of that, probably because they loved the theme and they didn't love the brand that got it. and Mike, the owner of HomePin, was in there and he reiterated his stance that even with this open source stuff, he's not making this game for pinball people. That makes no sense. But that's what he still argued. These games are for people that are not pinball people. This is for the coding enthusiasts out there? Who is this for then? He didn't really explain the argument with the open source code. It was that these are games for... He's articulated this. Then my favorite Dr. John episode, my favorite interview of any interview in pinball ever, the Dr. John interview with Mike from Home Pin and him just basically, I'm going to describe it as putting a middle finger up at the entire hobby and being like, I'm going to sell pinball machines, but not to you. I thought this was a pivot. So he's still saying. No. Oh, well. I mean, maybe it's a do as I say, not as I do or flip that, reverse it. I don't know. Anyway, but he was articulating this morning. No, I don't care what the pinball community thinks. You guys are just haters. Whenever I think of Thunderbirds and I think of all of that and, like, these games suck nuts, I always think of, I don't think the code, I mean, spelling out International Rescue aside, I think it's, this game is a piece of shit. So, open sourcing this I do think is smart based on where he's at in this race because he's throwing Hail Marys and he got to. but I don't necessarily think they need to find a way for other people to design it too. Like give a box of parts and then say this is Blues Brothers. Let's see what you want it to be. This does not interest me at all. I don think it significant enough even with smart moves here of the branding the IP and open source stuff It going to matter And at the end of the day my summary would be thank you so much HomePin for securing another large license that I fucking don't care about. You join the ranks of the Princess Bride and P3. Thank you, P3, for getting that because that's another theme. I just don't go. Oh, Weird Al, even better. Thank God it's not a theme that I like on any of this stuff. that's what I'm thankful for. It's a strange thing to be thankful for. Yeah, because, man, I do not want Stern wasting their time on the Blues Brothers because it doesn't appeal to me. It's got good music. Okay. But, hey, I might watch this film all the way through and love it, but I've seen a couple parts of it and I'm like, oh, okay. Maybe you should read the book first. I think so. Well, no, because I've already got Aykroyd and Belushi in my head. I can't. And didn't they sub him out, with Belushi Brother? Oh, and Blues Brothers 2000. Yes, Dan Aykroyd and... James Belushi. No, they'd use John Goodman for it. Oh, did they? Yep. I could have swore they used the other Belushi for something. Now he might be in there somewhere, but... All right, so that's HomePin. Anything else with HomePin? Not that I know of. Congratulations, HomePin, for securing that license. Let that go to show all of you other manufacturers that if HomePin can secure the Blues Brothers, then you're doing something very wrong if you're not securing at least that high quality of a license. Barrels of Fun, I wanted to bring them up because NAP Arcade had an update, almost like an official update, he was speaking with them or somebody was speaking with them, that I wanted to reiterate here. Per NAP Arcade, I'm going to quote NAP here. It says, according to the company's recent seminar at Pentastic New Robert Englunds show, Barrels of Fun is currently manufacturing four to five games per day, and they expect to ultimately sell out of their entire 1,100 run of Labyrinth. Okay, good to hear. Four to five games a day I think is okay. That makes sense. But I like that Knapp goes on to say that game number two is flipping. It's a white wood. But he starts crunching some numbers, and some of this stuff helps illustrate production timelines, estimates, that is, pretty well. And Barrels has been really good with estimates on production for the next one to two months for games. So that's been helpful. But he's looking at it more long term. He says, this is Knapp saying, quote, let's say that they still need to build 900 more labyrinths. Okay, let's say that. I'm not arguing here. I'm just reading. At five games per day, and I expect that number to increase at some point, it would take 180 business days to build all of the remaining units of the game one. 180 days divided by five days per week is 36 weeks. 36 weeks is nine months. Using that very rough estimate, barrels would be finished building Labyrinth by the end of 2024. So maybe we're going to see a game number two revealed in the late fall, perhaps earlier in the fall if the production rate picks up or Labyrinth doesn't sell out, question mark. I'm looking forward to seeing it. That's from Nap Arcade. I find it all interesting because I think the end finish line is probably going to be pretty accurate. I think maybe the last quarter they start building the rest of Labyrinth, or they build enough to meet $1,100 in the inventory sum. I've even told barrels, I think this is okay to say on the podcast, I've even told them, don't be afraid to stop at 1,000. Stop at 1,000. You said you'd make up to 1,100 and run the other 100 summer 2025 or something in between game two and three. Don't be afraid to leave yourself a little bit of wiggle there if you want to create more later on and build more of a catalog of games. With their size, do you feel they would be comfortable with switching up the line like that and going back and doing a build? Right now, no. But I think that if their ultimate goal in five to ten years is building a catalog, then, you know, ask Spooky Pinball about how many Rick and Mortys they made and if they would have loved the opportunity to make more. And, you know, some of the same people experiencing that and going to barrels here. So they could learn from that. so yeah I think end of 2024 is when we will see the Labyrinth stop being made whether that is 1100 units or whether that is at the end of Q3 and they sell 950 to 1000 units I don't know I think we see game number 2 maybe by the end of the year hmm do you think it will be ready for Expo game number 2 barrels I don't think they're going to launch anything without having games ready to go I think they like that. I don't think they'll be ready in time for Expo. They found success in having 10-plus games ready to sell at announcement. That's what made them pretty popular. And they were high-quality games, loaded games that people have fallen in love with. So I think they continue that pedigree. Let's talk about American Pinball continuing their pedigree. I like that American Pinball is looking for new ways to excite people. You see, Dennis? I'm a very positive fellow. They have a new promotion. What would we call this? Yeah, promotion. They sent to dealers a week or two ago. I'm not going to tell you what it's called yet, this promotion, but I'm going to describe it to you. I'm so excited. I knew that you would have that. I'm so excited. I want to talk about what it's called. I just knew it. Okay. This is a new community-based group of pinball fans. I'm reading from the brochure they sent to dealers. a new community-based group of pinball fans that promotes public pinball locations. This new program is a community-based group of pinball fans. Through industry sponsors, the group promotes and supports locations with equipment discounts, launch party swag, tournament prizes, etc. In partnership with American Pinball, they are going to be offering public locations $400 off new in-box machines that are placed for public play. Okay. So this is a program that is trying to get more American Pinball titles on location. And they're doing so by giving them a $400 discount on American Pinball machines if they're putting them out into public play. This does exclude the newly released games for six months. Understandable, actually. I get that. So that's a pretty cool program. Here's how it works kind of thing. essentially you go to your dealer as a location and you say hey I'm wanting to put a Houdini on location give me a $400 discount send me an invoice and let's do this thing and then you use hashtag American Pinball and hashtag what this program is called to show your love on social media promoting locations operators and the distributor that is what this promotion is so Overall, pretty cool. This promotion they're calling Flippin' Awesome Pin Spot. Flippin' Awesome Pin Spot. I wanted to ask you a question. Yeah, yeah. Are you Flippin' Awesome Pin Spot? I'm Flippin' a lot of things. I'm Flip N Out Pinball. I'm Flippin'. Are you Flip N Out Pinball? There's a lot of Flippins that I am, but unfortunately I am not flipping awesome pin spot. I don't think I am. If someone fails to follow through in all of these guidelines, let's say that they don't do the social media posting and the tagging to show that the game is on public play, will they be publicly kind of reprimanded and told they need to correct what we might call the hashtag stern pinball response? Well, I'm waiting for them to be, I think this is more of the marketing that they're trying to use. I think they're going to be flip in reprimanded. You see, I just wanted them to, you know, have to be stern with someone. So that's where I was going. So yeah, this is flip in, you know, they didn't use two P's. This isn't flipping. This is flip in. They make sure to, I hope they have a teaser like trailer for the announcement. They'll put up where that could be like these like clappy sounds. No, in their graphic, the word flip is in blue. In is in red. And, yeah, flipping. Now, they did put I in. They went I in. I think that's good, yeah. This is good branding. I like the marketing. I like the big N, the small I. I think, you know, flip in has a ring to it. I don't know. It does. It's got a ring to it. I think this is a little long. Maybe not too long for a hashtag. It's kind of pushing it. Flip in awesome pin spot. They make sure, though, to make the logo flip in is real big. And then under it, real small, awesome pin spot. So flip in, screaming, flip in. I think it's good. You know what? I love this idea. Nice phrasing, nice marketing there to catch. Because flip in, it feels familiar. So I think that might help. Do you think there will be a bitterness from any locations that have been routing American pinball games, given that this is not applicable to prior purchasing? Yeah, but dims the brakes. I mean, you know, that's everywhere. I don't disagree that you have to draw a line somewhere. I'm just wondering if, I mean, again, with the whole requirement also about what, like, because they're not doing this for the immediate stuff. Like, they have to wait a while. So given that. But here's the problem. I think it may cause, I think that it may bite you a little bit, American Pinball. You think people will wait six months and then buy? Yeah, there you go. Yeah, I thought about that. Now you're delaying the purchase because for somebody that's like, you know what, I'm thinking about, you know, this new American Pinball Cuphead came out. I'm thinking about, I'm not, this isn't a have to have it, but, well, I don't know. It's kind of cool. Then again, I'll wait six months. We'll knock $400 off the price. And then in that time, we'll see if anything else comes out that's more worthy of this new game. I think you've got to be careful because these types of programs tend to do that. What they should do, not that I'm a marketing expert or sales expert, but I would say, honestly, guys, we need to get your products on location. We need to sell more American Pinball products. If you're willing to do this for your catalog of games, do one of two things. Just delay it so much that you're delaying it to the next title altogether, or just take the $400 off, you get them on locations, and include Barrio in every damn game you come out with. That's the benefit of buying an American Pinball game for locations, is you're going to get it cheaper than the rest of the public. Done. $400 isn't that big of a spread. Just pull off the Band-Aid. make it actually an incentive. Did I sell you on it? I'm convinced. This is flipping awesome. Make sure you use the hashtag flippingawesomepenspot. Nice job, American Pinball? Okay. Oh, we've got something special for our Patreon Club membership supporters this week. Book Club, from the way things have gone. This is an interesting week. See, I blame it on the flow killer of 149.5. It just, man, messed up everything. The flow killer, huh? The flow killer. Yeah. That is known as 149.5. And lack of recognition for, you know, tripping balls, but whatever. For our club members, whether you're at the $10 level, the Screaming Goat Club level individuals, or even in the middle there with our Nordman Club members, you get an exclusive segment this week that we're going to call What Games Are Worth Owning? How this is going to work, Dennis, there are a lot of options for people looking to buy a brand-new in-box pinball machine, would you say? Yes, the 5% to 10% of our listeners who care about that. I think all of our listeners are interested in the new title games. And did you know that there are over nine manufacturers making pinball machines right now? That's a lot. Did you know that there are over 35 different titles that you can choose from in the Noombox pinball machine right now? That's not differentiating pros from premiums. No, no, no. That is simply the title, the game itself. That's a lot of different options. So where are your dollars going? Well, in this segment, we are going to lay out Dennis and I's picks for where your money should go, What games are worth owning? Whether maybe the top picks for a new pinball owner or maybe the top picks for an enthusiast such as yourself. What about the diehard competitive players? What games would you pick for them? What about non-stern games? Just in general, if it's not a stern, what are your top games available right now that you'd go with? How about the top underrated games, top three underrated? the Dark Horse games that you think people should pay attention to if they're looking to purchase a new game. Or what about this? Maybe the top games to consider buying pre-owned. Let's pass over the whole new in-box thing because these top three games have a pretty big loss of value out of the box or they need a lot of tweaking out of the box. Pick up one that's already been broken in. Or what about the worst three? What are the worst three pins that you should not consider buying from anything new? So tune in to the segment we're calling, What Games Are Actually Worth Owning as an Official Club Member? Ooh, what's Dennis going to pick? What am I going to pick? I can't pick them all. Well, you have so many categories, you can almost pick them all if you spell them out. But I don't. I don't. I'll tell you what's worth owning. Okay. The rest of the news here, we're just going to run down really quickly because they're just quick talking points. Pedretti Gaming, maybe they're worth owning. Maybe. We don't know yet. We don't know. We're anticipating them revealing their first remake soon. At Expo? We've been hearing that over the last couple months. Yeah, it's been a while. Going to be releasing, going to be releasing, going to be releasing. The Rumors Funhouse, that's what everybody's been saying. People have been talking about they've announced Brian Allen's going to be helping with some of the artwork with Pedretti remakes. So maybe we see some Brian Allen artwork. He's done like officially licensed Valley Williams stuff, so we'd probably see that. I'm interested in seeing what they come up with and how it compares to remakes we've seen from other manufacturers. Haggis Pinball, we're still waiting to receive an update on what the whole restructuring even means for the company. When or even if we're going to see the remainder of those Fathom ship, we don't know what the hell's going on over at Haggis. Chicago Gaming Company continues to slowly pump out Pulp Fiction SEs. The word from CGC still, depending on who you talk to, LE production estimated to begin mid to late summer of 2024 here. And then when they're making medieval madnesses, here's the non-official answer. Who the fuck knows? Who knows? Well, I talked to CGC and they said the end of 20... Who knows? The CGC don't know. Who knows? Spooky pinball continuing to ship Looney Tunes and Texas Chainsaw Massacre CE models. Right now, they're likely in the 40s. Number-wise for each of those games, which is kind of surprising. Here in April, they've only produced 80 or so pinball machines. Interesting. That's tough. I mean, when you put it into that, February, March, April, almost three months, 80 games. Too much time streaming and going to shows? Well, they're producing Scooby-Doo. Remember the BSEs? So maybe it's over 100. because of Jersey Jack pinball continues to ship both PE and CE models of Elton John. Here's the thing to recognize. Everybody's like, well, these things are sitting. These things are sitting. Nobody's buying these. I've heard that narrative. It's simply objectively not true. Sure, there's some dealers out there with some, but I'm telling you as a fact right here, if as a dealer I ordered an Elton John, either a PE or a CE today from Jersey Jack pinball, it would not ship tomorrow. there is an order log, a queue. So they're still building what people have ordered. So that's interesting. And never interesting, but always captivating, is our thank you every episode as part of the Screaming Goat Club membership. We've got to thank Rodney and his bobcat. If only he had had a bobcat on a shirt. Oh, shoot that fucker! Coming soon. Maybe. Hashtag no promises. You got your paywall polo, didn't you? I did. That's good. That's good. It's hanging up with my other polos. I wore mine this weekend. Did you? I like it. I really like it. I might wear mine on my wristwatch stream. Oh! I had to plug a shirt I was selling there. Well, I was just with Dennis. bye bye bye we gotta thank Jablonski and his Bumblebee thank you so much for the ongoing support and congrats on your brand new pinball machine you got one recently Rob thank you so much for the support the Panther Snarl also thank you Frankie and your mysterious wolf falcon Dave I want to thank you as well from the pinball show thanks for the continued support Shaker Motor red tremored as of 149.5 that's the red trimmer is the 149.5 shaker motors he could hear the upgrade on that episode you can feel it okay joe thank you joe i want to see a picture of joe and his screaming erin's paywall polo we'll see you joe charlie thank you so much for the support I'm hoping these people got their shirts William, thank you William The dude You might fool a fox in the league office But you don't fool Jesus It's Bush League psycho stuff I don't know if the dude wears polos Well, our dude, William, does But the Blabowski, I don't think he wears polos Maybe he does Maybe just bowling shirts, I don't remember I've only seen that movie twice It's worth another viewing Yeah, I should see it again I don't know if it's better in the book, but... Yeah. Oh, our upcoming live Zoom hangout for those part of the Screaming Goat Club membership or even the Nordman levels. Yes. When is that, Dennis? That is going to be this upcoming Wednesday. That would be the 24th at 8 p.m. Central. And the announcement with the link is out on the Patreon for the Nordman and above Patreon members. Be there. and that probably one of the most engaging and fun parts of the pinball show in general are those evenings I surprised how much fun it is each and every because it feels like we don do notes or anything We just go in there and kickback, and we just talk industry. We talk gaming. We do a little bit of everything. It's kind of like a conversation one might have at a pinball show, but quieter because there's no machines going off. Over some drinks and just kind of hanging out. Whether you drink a choice of lemonade or... Or limeade. Limeade. Yeah. People like limeades. I think that's Sonic's bread and butter. Do you have Sonics out there in Indiana? You got to have Sonics. I do love me some Sonic. Never a limeade, though. I always go for the... Ocean breeze. No, the cheese sticks. I'm a cheese stick Sonic guy. You drink cheese sticks. I would. I love them. We can't end the show without having everybody's meat juices flowing. flowing. I would say this segment is the meat juice of the podcast industry. Wouldn't you? There's nothing juicier and more succulent. Can we end this segment? Pinball and market trends. I like your style, dude. We're done with market trends. Have I ever put it behind the paywall? I don't know if I have. No, I don't think so. That would be sacrilege. Yeah, I think that would hurt your ego too much to do that. I'm not arguing. Training up this week is Godzilla Premium. Man, Zach, you're really out of shock. Going on a limb there. The reason being. What else is good? Jurassic Park? Numbers don't lie. It's because I told you, I warned you guys last episode that they were drying up. Well, here's my fair warning, people. it is trending up because now we are getting more and more calls hey do you have any stock people are starting they're going to their dealer the dealer's out then they go to their secondary dealer dealer they keep they're going around godzilla premium is is becoming short supply and stern is their clever because when i asked him for an update on production wins production the next run of Godzilla Premium. You know what they told me? Nope. TBD. I'm like, you sneaksies. Yeah. So they know, they know their, what is it they called? The milk crop? Not the milk crop. Milk crop. Milk crop. What do they call it? Squeezing milk out of, they know their milk cash cow. It's a cash cow. Cash cow. Yeah, cash cow. And what's the crop? Golden goose. What's the crop? Where am I getting cash crop? Cash Cash Okay Cash Crop Okay Things that start with cash That's not milk We don't grow the milk I got nipples Greg Can you milk me? Alright so Trending us this week Is Godzilla Premium Don't say I didn't tell you so Also trending up this week Is Black Knight Sword of Rage Pro The number surprised me there So I gotta trend it up It came out of nowhere Maggot And uh Maybe I saw the argument People saying Maybe this is just a Fuck you to Steve Richard because he's been talking shit to Stern for the last couple of years. Elton John comes out, so they're like, watch us sell more of the old-ass Black Knight pros than Elton John. I don't know. I don't know. I think Stern's more concerned with making money than sticking it to Steve French. 100%. But Stern's also like, Stern is, oh, man. Stern, I can also see, be like, Steve who? So turning up is the sort of rage pro and the accompanied topper. Bye, bye, bye. Bye, bye, bye! Could you see yourself owning that game? Yeah, actually. The pro, yeah. I could, too. I could see you owning it. I actually liked it. We had it on location for quite a while, and I actually enjoyed playing it quite a bit. It's a very mode-based game, but it is mean. It is a mean, nasty old mode-based game. I like it. Also turning up this week is another behavioral observation by yours truly, buckle up what is the deal with now this is my i go to church every other week when i'm not podcasting why you know that or why you need to know that i don't know it's boring i'm sorry but um so i go to church with my wife and um a lot of things happen to me in church it's in the morning so i'm really my brain's popping dennis i'm eager whether i'm trying to find i'm observing people you know these people seem really into it they're really into these people kind of fall asleep why do they even come you know what's this with this bible book let me read through this chapter wise and so i make all kinds of observations throughout the sitting of the the ceremony or the it's not catholic so it's not the mass it's uh the um the what i don't even know what's called the hour and 15 minutes the sermon no it's not the sermon it's the program i don't know i sit there and watch things. And recently, over the last year or so, we had a new addition to the church, a new feature, if you will, in the LE package, and that is that of a sign language person. Is that derogatory? A sign language person? I don't know why it would be derogatory. The phrasing, you've got to say the one thing before, you know, you don't say an autistic person, you say a person with autism. Well, this is a translator. Yes, this is a translator, but yeah, with disabilities, I never know. So this is a translator, someone who is translating sign language to some of the congregation. So during the service, I think it's a service, during the service, there is a sign person there. And I find it captivating watching this and trying to learn almost a new language. Maybe I should be paying attention to the message, but that's nor here nor there. I try to learn the different sign language and it's really quite interesting. A couple weeks ago, though, I questioned during the first part of the program, they're singing, right? And they're singing. And they even have like the sing-along with a little ball. The ball doesn't bounce. But for the participants, they can sing along. So they have the words up there. But the person was signing during the singing. And it confused me, Dennis and listeners, because I thought, why in the hell is that? Really great choice of words there. Why in the heck is the sign language person, they should be having a water getting ready for the sermon to interpret and to sign, the words are up on the screen. So why are they signing during the music portion unless they're signing to an illiterate person that can't read all, like, what is going on here? That seems a bit redundant to me. But an epiphany occurred to me last week when attending church. Something so strong that one may say built a lot of faith within the heart of this podcast host. It was a eureka moment, Dennis, when I sat there pondering, well, what is this? I soon learned some stuff in the language of the sign language. And did you know that you can sing inside? Yes. Oh, shit. I didn't know that. And it was like, hit me like a, like a bag of bricks. And I'm like, of course that person is signing. They are singing. For example, the way the soul, I'm posturing right now doing soul because I learned how to sign that word. But in verbal discussion, soul is one way. But when you're singing it, it is more emphatic and it is emphasized. And it's pace. It paces the vocals that is in the song. When you're saying soul versus soul, right? You're holding soul. It might go high. It might go low. But the person was sitting there singing to me in sign the most beautiful thing I've ever experienced. It was awesome. And it stopped me in my tracks. And it was like such a wonderful and beautiful moment that I wanted to share it here with the individual. So it just goes to show you, if you open yourself up to your own awareness of your own ignorance like I did, I could just say, yeah, I'm ignorant. But I learned from it. And it was the coolest thing in the world. sing someone perform the song in sign language and it got me thinking you know you always shit on me for not being able to sing well i i wonder if i'd be a good singer in sign i think i'm pretty theatrical i emphasize hands movements quite well glory like fingers dazzling a little bit like that's what the person does when they're singing it's awesome i i encourage you are, implore you are, to check out someone singing and signing. The coolest damn thing ever. And it made me wonder, like, and if somebody knows out there, reach out to me. I want to know who the best singers are and sign. Because I think that would be one of the coolest things to watch. Almost like a play performance type of thing. I want to get the feels of that. Training Down, fine. Training Down is Venom. Does that make you feel better? Pinball Podcast? Better? Sorry, Stern. It is. Those things are kind of sitting. The pros, the premiums, hell, still got an LE. They're selling. People are selling them very cheap. What I'm saying is, Stern, help a guy out. How can they help you? You've got to find a way to sell these things. Isn't that your job as the distro? I'm trying. If they're doing all the work, they don't need distros. I need a little help. Please release this topper. Can't you come up with some clever little ad? Like, I'm guessing I'm back. It doesn't even make sense for the theme. It doesn't even make sense for the theme. You know what? I at least got some positive feedback on that. That was a great advertisement. That's a John Wick quote, and you're sticking it in on something that doesn't make any sense. That's clever. Talk about low effort. You know what? I'm glad they didn't thank you for episode 150's title after I saw that. I was offended that Stern didn't share that, because I thought... It's not relevant! It is! What a beautiful... What a beautiful use of the brain to advertise. It would be like, no. It would be like if you had an ad for your Venom LE and you put it up and it will flip out. Right. Look at how they massacred my boy. You can't. No. It's not the same thing. You're mixing your films. It's clever. It's clever. No, it's not. It's bad. Because it's relevant to both. It's very relevant. It is bad. The Black Knight is back. Just so happens to be a very famous quote from something else. It's like if you start selling the Blues Brothers game for HomePin and you write on the little ad thing, hold me closer, tiny dancer. No, it's not. You can't throw Elton John into Blues Brothers. Just willy-nilly like that. Nicole gets really upset because she says I sometimes spend too much time creating advertisements in this industry. Especially when it's bad. And within the next couple of days, I came up with that genius piece. And I presented it to her and I said, you know what? Go around and look at the other distributors. Their little boilerplate share got some days in stock. Compare that to this. And then if I had a mic in my hand, I would drop it. I wonder what the sign is for dropping a mic. I wanted to know that because I dropped the mic on that fucking advertisement. That's what we call advertising gold. but yeah i knew you'd say i know you so well i knew you'd say something turning down his venom stern please give us a 1.0 that's my job here thank god i just need venoms to sell better give us a topper i'll take an armor at this point give us a uv light kit something that was dwight please yeah you're hoping they had some stuff in the art something please come All is turning down this week. This one doesn't affect me as much, but just objectively, I've seen some pricing on this thing drop. That's the P3 system. Some people are selling their Weird Owls. I don't know if they're just making space for new games. But the P3 system with Weird Owl, those things are brand new. They've got to be, what, $12,000? That feels around right. I don't know the current pricing, but it's five figures. I've seen on secondary market these things barely played in the $7,000 ranges. 7,800 for essentially a brand new P3 system with the weird owl that everybody loves. Well, if you wanted a Princess Bride module, that would be a relatively affordable way to get into it. That would be the way to jump into it. I think some people are still waiting for Final Resistance as well. Well, not the people who sold them. Well, no. It was very surprising. It was like a reminder that, you know, market fluctuations. And that's one of them right now is a P3. jumping into that. That's a tough pill to swallow. But those are trending down right now. No deals of the week. You know what the deal of the week was? That gold that I was weaving the last couple of weeks for you people. And the podcast titles and advertisements. Yeah, I guess I'm back. Yeah, I'd say I'm back. Nothing. People. What do you people want from me? I'm your fucking dancing marionette. No deal. Just imagine Jaws. You're like, if this shot goes under 55 miles an hour, it'll explode. You can't just mix these things together. It's more relevant than that. They're oil and water. No, it's not. Okay, as always, I'm just here to weave the gold because numbers don't lie. Neither do I on pinball market trends. All right, Dennis, close it out. How do people want to reach you? I can email a collective gamers podcast at gmail.com. That's an easy way to reach me. Can they buy a t-shirt through you if they're watches with Dennis? I mean, I've got a, I got a spread shop linked over on my watches with Dennis YouTube. Yep. I got t-shirts. I got dead girls in a lawn chair. There's also, yeah. And I got logo shirts. Wow. Talking about the teaser thing. I like that. Okay. If you guys like to know what time it is, go over to that YouTube channel. This is pretty relevant to everybody. I think that cares about time besides my kind of, Hey. That's more accurate than some of your advertising campaigns But not all that accurate Go follow, like, and subscribe to the Pinball Show Our email is thepinballshow at gmail.com Follow us on Facebook and YouTube And better yet, sign up to our club membership through Patreon At patreon.com slash thepinballshow Buy, buy, buy! The goods are over there too We give the goods for free But if you want a little extra tickle Go over there And it helps support us Keeps us feisty You can catch me at Straight Down the Middle as well, the video series on YouTube. Go follow, like, and subscribe. And I strongly suggest you follow, like, and subscribe to Facebook and YouTube and Instagram for Flip and Out Pinball. And they just so happen to be the sponsor of this very show. product showcase this week is james bond pro and premium remember they just came in so uh people are continuing to love that game so go out and see for yourself uh at a location near you and once you fall in love buy it today that's one thing that david dennis would agree with me on i would think next cornerstone interested list come on people it's open get on there if you think you might be back if you think if you think you might have some interest in anything you know you never know what it's gonna be if you think i can see myself owning a new pinball machine why not get on the interested list today because the sterns they're pretty much gold baby and you'll be in the list already whether it's a pro premium le look if you have a location i'm not calling this flipping awesome discounts, but, you know, try to help our locations out. So get on the list today. See what I did there? Jaws Pro and Premium in stock. Godzilla Pro and Premium in stock. Foo Fighters Pro and Premium. Stranger Things Pro and Premium. Venom Pro and Premium. L.E. Jurassic Park Pro and Premium. Star Wars Comic Home, one left. Pro and Premium. Deadpool Pro and Premium. Avengers Pro and Premium. Iron Maiden Premium. Turtles Premium. Led Zeppelin Pro. Mandalorian Pro and Premium. Labyrinth. You can still pre-order that at the risk. Elton John, I have one CE right now. Otherwise, we're doing pre-orders for Elton John. PE, which is at the end of May, fulfillment. Maybe a little sooner. Toy Story 4, Ellie and CE in Stock, Guns N' Roses, Ellie. Pulp Fiction pre-orders. Looney Tunes pre-orders. Texas Chainsaw Massacre pre-orders. Scooby-Doo Bloodsucker Edition. I do have one left. That's with the Mystery Machine side cabinet order. So that's pretty cool. Ultraman CE, I think I have number 250. ABBA pre-orders. Gimme, gimme, gimme one of those pre-orders. Still selling. Sold two this last week. pre-orders of ABBA. I think we helped that one out, didn't we? Alien Ripley, pre-order. The ones I just got in, they sold again. So we've got some more coming in the month of May. So get your name on one of those. Queen, Galactic Tank Force, underrated game. Hot Wheels Classic, Houdini, Big Buck Hunter Reloaded. Come on, people. Now with built-in Walking Dead arcade, Golden Tee PGA, Standard and Deluxe, Ice Cold Beer remakes, Staircat, Climbing Hand Trucks, Toppers, whatever. Flipping out with friends, Joel is actually, this week, he's working. I think he has a work thing, so he's not going to be streaming this week. Last week, he streamed, was it Godzilla Premium? Him and his brother? The week before that, they did a fun little quips game that was pinball related. I would strongly suggest going and watching that. That was a bunch of fun. All right, Dennis, teach these people something. Well, folks, listen. You know, Zach doesn't have to weave the gold by himself. You can help him weave the gold. Please do. I want you to write in to thepinballshowatgmail.com, and I want you to help him come up with the proper tagline for him to, oh, I don't know, let's say Jurassic Park. Help him sell those Stern Jurassic Park games. Here's what I'm currently leaning towards. I think it should say, I'm a pickle. What do you think about that? I turned myself into a pickle. What are you staring at me for, bro? I turned myself into a pickle, Morty. That's what I would like him to use to help sell these Jurassic Parks. Because it just makes sense. maybe it went over the head I'm weaving gold here weave and go and always practice safe pinball and on a more serious note I wanted to dedicate this episode to a friend Andy who recently passed away he'll be forever missed I know by myself here's to you Andy I'm going to miss you buddy every time I go to Disney I promise you you'll be in my heart and every new pinball machine that I open up I will think of you and think of the love that you would either have or the shit that you would have given that new title. So we'll miss you, buddy, and I dedicate this episode to you. Do you want to see him crush me like a worm? It's actually pretty good. Thank you.

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 84a5c7e0-fc26-4438-8bdc-cc2d89eb8422*