# The Great British Pinball Podcast Episode 7

**Source:** The Great British Pinball Podcast  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2023-12-21  
**Duration:** 115m 36s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** Buzzsprout-14185299

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## Analysis

Neil McRae and Scott Rundell discuss their pinball collecting plans, delayed shipments (especially Cactus Canyon remakes), rumors of new game announcements (Pokemon potentially), and debate the merits of various Stern releases including Venom, Stranger Things, and upcoming titles like Pulp Fiction. They also explore themes around licensing challenges, the secondary market, and what upcoming remakes Chicago Gaming Company might pursue.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Cactus Canyon final payment was made on September 22nd, but delivery is now expected after Christmas 2024, creating frustration over three-month payment-to-delivery lag. — _Neil McRae, discussing his Cactus Canyon purchase timeline and delivery delays._
- [MEDIUM] There is a rumor that an announcement about another remake company is coming tomorrow (from recording date). — _Neil McRae mentions 'there's a rumour out there that tomorrow there's going to be an announcement about another remake company'; Scott confirms he's 'been knowing about that for some time.'_
- [MEDIUM] Chicago Gaming Company (CGC) has indicated they don't see much value in keeping licenses for other Williams titles beyond the ones they've already released. — _Neil references an interview with a CGC employee stating they didn't think there was 'much point in keeping the license on for other titles in the Williams era because they'd already got the ones that were worth any value.'_
- [HIGH] Josh Sharpe is working on the rules code for Pulp Fiction pinball machine. — _Neil McRae describes confronting Josh Sharpe about his negative reaction to Pulp Fiction artwork, with Josh confirming 'yeah, I'm doing the rules.'_
- [MEDIUM] Lyman code updates are expected to come to Cactus Canyon as a personal tribute project. — _Neil mentions he's 'talked to him a few times' (Josh Sharpe) and 'he's very keen. He's a very good friend of Lyman. I think he's keen to see this come out as his own personal tribute to Lyman.'_
- [HIGH] Stranger Things (Stern rerun) is being released without UV kits included despite original run having them, and both the game and UV kit prices have increased. — _Neil McRae discussing Stranger Things Rerun pricing and kit availability: 'as well as putting the price of the game up, the price of the UV kit up.'_
- [LOW] Pokemon is rumored to be a future Stern Pinball release, though Neil expresses skepticism about its authenticity. — _Neil McRae: 'Pokemon? There's no way, unless that game is... I mean, this is the thing. As a theme, Pokemon just doesn't interest me at all. If that's true, I'm so skeptical about that being the real thing.'_
- [MEDIUM] The Beatles pinball machine was limited to approximately 1,900 total units, with pricing starting at around 15,000 GBP for the Gold Edition and reaching 40,000 GBP for the Diamond Edition. — _Neil McRae discussing Beatles pinball distribution: 'they limited it to, like, I think in total, about 1,900 games... 1,800 of them were the Gold Edition... And the Diamond Edition, I think, was retailing for like 40 grand.'_

### Notable Quotes

> "I nearly cancelled it, and I'm so glad I didn't. It is a better game than most people realise, and anyone who thinks it's not a good game, they're brain dead, frankly, because it's a great game."
> — **Neil McRae**, ~11:30
> _Strong endorsement of Venom despite its poor market reception and negative community sentiment; defends the game against criticism._

> "I said to him, like, I said, if I had a choice between personally, between an Attack from Mars or Stranger Things, it would be Stranger Things."
> — **Neil McRae**, ~18:45
> _Expresses personal preference for newer Stern reissue over classic Williams title; reflects on collector dilemmas with premium releases._

> "For me, Pulp Fiction without the topper, I was just like, nah, I'll just leave it."
> — **Neil McRae**, ~26:00
> _Illustrates how topper availability dramatically affects purchase decisions and perceived value of remake games._

> "I literally pinged them and said, guys, I want one of these for the UK Open. Please, you know, I'll give you 20 grand right now. Just send me one of these freaking games."
> — **Neil McRae**, ~28:00
> _Demonstrates desperation to secure Pulp Fiction for tournament hosting; reveals high demand and limited availability._

> "Stern have got like a pretty much spoiler plate approach to this. They mail IGN. IGN post something. A teaser video appears on YouTube."
> — **Neil McRae**, ~14:15
> _Describes Stern's structured announcement strategy and media partnerships for game reveals._

> "If they broke even, I'd be stunned by it."
> — **Scott Rundell**, ~37:45
> _Suggests Rush and Led Zeppelin Stern licenses were commercial underperformers relative to manufacturing costs._

> "They're still making Premium units, I think, that's still got to be made. So I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt on this one. I think we'll see some ship in February."
> — **Scott Rundell**, ~31:30
> _Prediction that Pulp Fiction will ship in February 2025 to US customers; implies production complexities still ongoing._

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Neil McRae | person | Co-host of Great British Pinball Podcast; UK-based pinball collector and enthusiast with multiple machines; discusses personal collecting decisions and tournament involvement. |
| Scott Rundell | person | Co-host of Great British Pinball Podcast; pinball collector experiencing delivery delays on Twilight Zone restoration; discusses game preferences and market analysis. |
| Josh Sharpe | person | Rules designer working on Pulp Fiction pinball; noted as close friend of designer Lyman and committed to bringing Lyman code updates to Cactus Canyon. |
| Phil Zaputil | person | Owner/operator of Chicago Gaming Company (CGC); mentioned as having restrictive checkout software and managing Pulp Fiction pre-orders. |
| Chicago Gaming Company | company | Manufacturer of Williams/Bally pinball remakes (Cactus Canyon, Medieval Madness, Attack from Mars); facing reputation damage from delays and licensing restrictions; rumored to be losing license interest. |
| Stern Pinball | company | Major pinball manufacturer; discussed for its structured announcement strategy via IGN partnerships, Pokemon rumor, and recent releases. |
| Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Premium pinball manufacturer; mentioned in context of recent launches and competing product offerings. |
| Spooky Pinball | company | Boutique pinball manufacturer; recent game launches discussed as part of market analysis. |
| Venom | game | Stern Pinball game; praised by Neil despite poor community reception; criticized for theme selection but defended as excellent gameplay machine. |
| Cactus Canyon | game | Chicago Gaming Company remake of classic Williams game; experiencing severe delivery delays; final payment made September 22, expected delivery after Christmas 2024; subject of Lyman code update project. |
| Pulp Fiction | game | Upcoming Stern Pinball release; designed by Josh Sharpe; high demand with limited availability; topper significantly impacts perceived value; US predictions for February 2025 shipping. |
| Stranger Things (Rerun) | game | Stern Pinball reissue; priced higher than original run; UV kits not included despite original run having them; discussed as solid alternative to classic Attack from Mars. |
| Godzilla | game | Referenced indirectly; mentioned as example of modern pinball success and collector interest. |
| Attack from Mars | game | Classic Williams pinball being offered as cheaper alternative to Stranger Things; Chicago Gaming Company remake also discussed. |
| Medieval Madness | game | Classic Williams game remade by Chicago Gaming Company; mentioned as potential candidate for licensing continuation or discontinuation. |
| The Beatles | game | Limited edition Stern Pinball machine; 1,900 units total (1,800 Gold Edition at ~15k GBP, 100 Platinum, 50 Diamond at 40k GBP); discussed as pricing/availability example and licensing cautionary tale. |
| Whitewater | game | Classic Williams pinball; cited as example of topper driving significant secondary market value; missing toppers reduce resale value by ~1,000 GBP. |
| Iron Maiden | game | Stern Pinball game owned by Scott; mentioned as covered in dust due to infrequent play; example of collector's stockpiled machines. |
| Twilight Zone | game | Classic Williams pinball; Scott's restoration project delayed due to supplier shipping constraints; commands 4,000-12,000 GBP on secondary market; high BOM complexity. |
| William Shatner | person | Actor and Star Trek original series star; mentioned for meeting Neil and as space program enthusiast who traveled to space. |
| Patrick Stewart | person | Actor from Star Trek; met by Neil at some point; inspirational figure to Neil. |
| Frank Borman | person | Apollo astronaut and program manager; recently deceased; signed NASA/Enterprise artwork owned by Neil. |
| Bruce Willis | person | Actor; mentioned for health struggles (Alzheimer's); discussed for film career and potential pinball machine based on his films. |
| Great British Pinball Podcast | organization | Podcast hosted by Neil McRae and Scott Rundell; episode 7 is the source of this analysis. |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Cactus Canyon delivery delays and frustration, Chicago Gaming Company licensing and reputation damage, Pulp Fiction availability, demand, and shipping predictions, Pokemon pinball rumor and skepticism
- **Secondary:** Venom game reception and defense of underappreciated titles, Stranger Things rerun pricing and UV kit strategy, Music licensing challenges (Rush, Led Zeppelin, Beatles), Topper rarity and secondary market value impact

### Sentiment

**Mixed** (0.35) — Hosts express frustration with delays, production issues, and licensing challenges, but balanced by enthusiasm for individual games (Venom, Pulp Fiction) and optimistic predictions. Discussion oscillates between pessimism about industry direction (Pokemon theme, music licensing failures) and appreciation for game quality. Overall tone is pragmatic and analytical rather than broadly positive or negative.

### Signals

- **[product_launch]** Cactus Canyon remake faces severe shipping delays; final payment made September 22, delivery now expected after Christmas 2024, creating 3+ month lag and customer frustration. (confidence: high) — Neil explicitly states payment was '22nd of September' and delivery is after December 24, describing the delay as 'taking the piss.'
- **[rumor_hype]** Pokemon pinball machine rumored to be in development at Stern, though Neil expresses high skepticism about authenticity. (confidence: low) — Neil mentions Pokemon theme and explicitly states 'I'm so skeptical about that being the real thing because it's going to be a Cabbage Patch Kids meme.'
- **[business_signal]** Chicago Gaming Company reportedly losing interest in renewing Williams pinball licenses beyond already-released remakes; rumored announcement of alternative remake manufacturer coming. (confidence: medium) — Neil references CGC interview indicating no value in keeping other licenses; mentions 'rumour out there that tomorrow there's going to be an announcement about another remake company.'
- **[product_launch]** Pulp Fiction expected to ship to US customers in February 2025; UK shipping predicted for early 2025. (confidence: medium) — Scott predicts 'I think the US will see games shipped in February' for Pulp Fiction; Neil agrees with early 2025 for UK.
- **[market_signal]** Stern Stranger Things rerun priced higher than original release with UV kits removed from base package and sold separately at increased price; represents aggressive monetization strategy. (confidence: high) — Neil states: 'as well as putting the price of the game up, the price of the UV kit up' and notes 'a win, win, win, win, win all the way to the bank for Stern.'
- **[product_concern]** Stranger Things (Stern) experiencing projector alignment complaints from owners; hosts defend as normal for projector-based systems requiring calibration. (confidence: medium) — Neil mentions 'people complaining about odd things. They were complaining about the projector alignment' and defends as routine maintenance.
- **[sentiment_shift]** Venom pinball game perception shifting positively among informed players despite initial poor market reception and negative community sentiment. (confidence: medium) — Neil strongly defends Venom: 'It is a better game than most people realise, and anyone who thinks it's not a good game, they're brain dead, frankly.'
- **[market_signal]** Pinball game topper availability creates 1,000+ GBP secondary market value swings; unavailable toppers significantly depress resale prices and purchase interest. (confidence: high) — Neil states 'a topper can drive, like, a grand difference in the machine' and explicitly declined Whitewater offer without topper; discussed as major factor in game valuation.
- **[business_signal]** Stern's Rush and Led Zeppelin pinball machines reportedly underperformed commercially; analysis suggests they may not have broken even when allocated true licensing costs. (confidence: medium) — Scott speculates 'if you allocated the costs to them that they deserve, if they broke even, I'd be stunned by it' regarding Rush and Led Zeppelin.
- **[personnel_signal]** Josh Sharpe confirmed as rules designer for Pulp Fiction pinball; working on Lyman code updates for Cactus Canyon as personal tribute project. (confidence: high) — Neil directly asks Josh if he's involved; Josh confirms 'yeah, I'm doing the rules' for Pulp Fiction; separate mention of Josh's commitment to Lyman code.
- **[product_strategy]** Chicago Gaming Company focused on Williams remakes with strongest secondary market value (Cactus Canyon, Attack from Mars, Medieval Madness); considering abandoning other titles due to licensing costs vs. demand. (confidence: medium) — Neil speculates which titles CGC might pursue or abandon based on secondary market values and licensing complexity; mentions 'hard ones' like Twilight Zone and Addams Family.
- **[industry_signal]** Rumor of announcement tomorrow regarding new remake manufacturer; positioned as response to Chicago Gaming Company's perceived struggles and licensing limitations. (confidence: medium) — Neil: 'there's a rumour out there that tomorrow there's going to be an announcement about another remake company. Yeah, I've been knowing about that for some time.'

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## Transcript

 Welcome to the Great British Pinball Podcast and here are your hosts Scott Rundell and Neil McRae I do love our soundtrack and intro that I robbed of some random joe on YouTube Yes, ladies and gentlemen, and those unsure, it's the Great British Pinball Podcast, episode, is it seven or eight? Seven. Your guess is as good as mine. Seven. I'd say seven. We don't care. I am Neil McRae. I'm joined by... And I'm Scott Rundle. How are you doing? Scott, it's glorious to see you, mate. I don't know about you, but walk-wise, it's felt like an uphill ski. Yeah. Where you're paddling like bologna and getting nowhere. I think it's the time of year isn't it like people have a tendency to say we need this done, we want this done and then you speak to your clients, they're like well we're shut for the year, we speak to your vendors well we've kind of got a change freeze in place, it's all the kind of stuff that's going on this time of year that makes it difficult to get anything done. Yeah everyone just wants to you know there's a bunch of people that want to get stuff done by the end of the year, there's a bunch of people that are already like the end of the year's here, piss off and it's kind of it's kind of infuriating And, you know, it's kind of, I don't know, it's just in a kind of, I'm in a slightly different world than I was last year, but it's just kind of weird to experience it. I must point out, we are wearing Christmas jumpers. Yeah. I'm slightly themed towards something, you know. I don't know if I can get the back of it in there. I've got the glorious Christmas movie that I watch every week do you know what, I'm going to say this right now it's a Christmas movie, I'm sorry it's a Christmas movie I don't care even Bruce Willis says it's not it is, absolutely it is yeah he does, he came up and he did an award ceremony at one point, you can find the snippet on it and he says, just wanted to say that's not a Christmas movie and I was like, actually I I heard some unsettling news about Bruce Willis' health. Yeah, it's pretty bad. He's got Alzheimer's or something. Yeah, and it's really affecting him now. Barely got any... I tell you, when you see your heroes like that get hit with those afflictions, it's heartbreaking. I love Bruce Willis' Moonlight, and I don't know if you watched it back in the day. We've literally done... Me and my wife, actually, were watching what happened with him on the news. going there. But basically, like, we decided to watch a lot of his films. So we watched, like, Twelve Monkeys, Fifth Element. Oh, great movies. Yeah, I'm hoping Fifth Element turns out to be a pinball machine. I'll fix it. Maybe we'll get a pinball machine. Definitely so, yeah. But yeah, I do, I love his films. He's had some horrible ones. Yeah. And some cheesy ones, like, what was it, Apocalypse Now, where he's an oil rig digger and he's trying to implode an asteroid? Do you remember that one? Yeah, it was an apocalypse. No, that's a Vietnam movie. Oh, that's Vietnam. Yeah, Armageddon. Armageddon, that's it. Because I'm a space geek, I love that movie. I mean, it's kind of bullshit in that they showed you a picture of a shuttle on the pads, and then showed you a completely different shuttle that they'd made up that would land on an asteroid. Let me tell you, if a shuttle went anywhere near an asteroid, it would fall apart in about 10 seconds. You would say it would be like paper, wouldn't it? Yeah, I mean, it's just kind of funny. I'll be honest with you If movies entertain me, I don't give a shit It's about entertainment I was reading a post today on Facebook Some guy asking Why didn't Starfleet Use more holographic people I'm like, mate, it's a TV show Don't go there They did kind of cover it Was it in Voyager or DS9 They were using a load of holograms for slavery And then they all had an uprising, didn't they Yeah, I think it was Voyager but I just it's just kind of man I just want to be entertained I don't want to be thinking the reason I watch this shit is to get away with all the bullshit in the world don't make the bullshit in the world come with the stuff that takes us away from it well because I've got Star Trek in the background we can kind of loosely talk about this quickly but I wasn't that much of a fan of what they did with the new Picard season except for season 3 I thought that was really good oh yeah I just didn't like where it was going in the world of Gene Roddenberry's kind of universe season 1 and 2 were rubbish, mate. Let's just call it what it was. They were terrible. And, I mean, and honestly, they got away with it because of the love for those characters, right? Yeah, absolutely. It really felt like a fan service kind of series, but it was perfect to me. It was like, you brought back the whole crew, even Data was back. Spoilers, sorry, everyone. But, yeah, it's like, it's great. To me, it's like, this is perfect. This is what I wanted. Because they killed Data off, obviously, in the first season. I was a bit like... Yeah, I was just glad to see it. I was just kind of glad to see it to swing back to the kind of Star Trek canon that we know. Yeah. As opposed to this... You know, look, I love that you get these side things. Like, if you go to a science fiction bookshop, there's millions of Star Trek books with other captains, and I love that they do that, right? That's where that sort of weird shit belongs. Don't mess with the canon. If people want to watch weird shit or read about weird shit, there's tons of stuff out there. There's even Star Trek series on YouTube that, you know, real crazies have made in their back rooms, basically. But, no, and actually, you mentioned Star Trek. I'm going to – only because you mentioned it. Apologies, everyone, by the way. We obviously love to write. I love kind of these sort of artworks. I love that stuff. Yeah, that's really cool. There was this lady on Retrospective Studios. Her name's Kavita, and she's actually a licensed... Oh, a licensed artist. Paramount artist. Paramount, yeah. And they just came back from the framework. You see they've got these elements. I should know the name of that ship. I really should. Defiant. Defiant from DS9, right? Defiant, one of my favourite power ships. There was a part where he goes Is it in First Contact Where he goes, nice little ship And the wolf goes, little Yeah, that's what that painting is called Nice little ship I kind of wanted her to call it She always has this kind of competition To name the art pieces And I was like You've got to call it Fortune Favors the Bold Which is the big line in DS9 I know DS9's got a terrible rep In the first two seasons were hmm. Yeah, yeah. From season three onward, man, it was Sisko, Avery Brooks, who plays Sisko, the man is a genius actor. Yeah, I loved him. He was a good actor. Genius actor. He's actually the only Starfleet captain that I haven't met. Oh, really? Yeah, I met Janeway, I met Bakula, I met Shatner a few times, I met Picard, what's his name? Shit. Patrick Stewart Patrick Stewart and William Shatner People who inspire me You know, they're playing parts But I kind of like to go and meet them And I find that That's why I like the whole space thing I find it super inspiring Did William Shatner go into space? He did He has actually been into space That's pretty cool Which is great Actually I've got It's just come back from the frame I've got this amazing I'll post a photo of it up somewhere But I've got this amazing art It's from the original series Which is where they go back in time And they come across this guy Gary Seven And Gary Seven's trying to help An Apollo launch It's not called Apollo It's called something else But they use all the Apollo footage And I've got this great picture And the Enterprise kind of gets low to help this Apollo rocket blast off. And I got this great piece of art done that's got Apollo rocket and the Enterprise. And Bill Shatner signed the Enterprise side. And Frank Borman, who actually recently passed away, I'm sad to hear, he signed the Apollo side. He was the guy that the top capsule, he was one of the big, as well as being an astronaut, he was one of the program managers to get it ready in time for the thing. So I got them both signed. And hopefully that will be worth like a million quid when they both, you know, for my retirement. But no, genuinely, I wish I had it because it's amazing. Anyway, we've yacked on a little bit. Yeah, we better get back on track. What's your pinball plans for Christmas, Scott? well I was supposed to be doing my Twilight Zone but as per what we mentioned before about people not wanting to do anything around Christmas I get the feeling my playfield is somewhere stuck in Germany similar place to probably where my ramps are just sat in a depot somewhere no one really cares I don't know there's not really much I can do I'm kind of stuck if I'm honest it's a good time to do stuff as you know it's like it's a down period it's where I could be basically putting some real progress towards a pin. You could spend a bit of time playing your games. I know that's... I just look at them. They look nice. I scarily ran my finger across my Iron Maiden and the level of dust on it is shocking. I was like, oh my god. To be fair, I have played a bit with Holly yesterday, but she does have a tendency to break things. like honestly should we play it and should we like it's got a credit dot or the ball's jammed somewhere and I'm just like god what's going on now it's the problem with having old Bally Williams games they like to just mess up yeah I mean we should talk about that when we and we're going to talk about Spooky's new games later on we should talk about that I mean I'm actually not doing anything over Christmas other than playing games but I've played so much Venom over the last few weeks are you enjoying it still I am I nearly cancelled it, and I'm so glad I didn't. It is a better game than most people realise, and anyone who thinks it's not a good game, they're brain dead, frankly, because it's a great game. I'm hearing rumours that apparently they've been sending games to influencers to try and boost sales. Yeah, not me. I pay for mine. Yeah, well, they know that. They've got a good finger on you. If you want to see three games, knock yourself out. I mean, I was going to put one in the club. Yeah. And we'll come on to the club in a minute. But with the situation in the club, I just didn't want to. There's no point in putting one there until I know what's happening with it. And also, I really want to wait for the premiums to arrive, which they haven't done yet. So, yeah, and then in theory, I'm going to California for Indisc on the 2nd of January. So this is a pinball open world championships Do you think they're going to do any announcements there? Or is that not the type of venue they're doing? Nah, nah, nah I mean Stern have got like a pretty much Spoiler plate approach to this They mail IGN IGN post something A teaser video appears on YouTube And I've been given some info That yesterday was going to be Jaws launch For sure I was told that a while ago Admittedly But I'm going to guess That something isn't quite ready Is Is You know so I was looking at my Facebook memories And it's almost The same day Led Zeppelin launched a couple of years ago And it would be The same day And it's kind of And it's kind of weird because I need to check this They normally start and go to the CES show in Vegas. But I'm going to guess that they might not be there this year. Because that's a great place to launch a new game, frankly. Yeah, yeah. Although, Stranger Things, they launched that. Well, it's good they got a rerun on it, though, right? And I know people, it's odd, they're complaining about odd things. They were complaining about the projector alignment. But I'm like, have you ever owned a projector? everyone I've ever owned every time you turn on a projector you fucking they're going to move, those dials will definitely move around even when they're in shipping crates and stuff like that so for people to go oh come on send out the QC you know these are off by a country mar and I'm like how does it really take you to tune it in my LE was off and I have to tweak it every now and again and the game if I turn it on right now I'll put money on it I have to tweak it Probably. So it will be slightly out of focus or slightly out of alignment. And it's great that the games, there's more of them going either, because I love the game. I think it's a great game. I'm just hoping that they get the UV kits out, because there's still a lot of people from the original run that didn't get one. I didn't know that for certain then. So is the UV kit not included with the rerun? No. Wow. No. God. And actually, as well as putting the price of the game up, the price of the UV kit up. So, that's a win, win, win, win, win all the way to the bank for Stern. I still stand by it, right? I was speaking to a friend of mine about this, because he said, like, you know, he was umming and ahhing over an attack from Mars that he's been offered. And I said to him, like, I said, if I had a choice between personally, between an attack from Mars or Stranger Things, it would be Stranger Things. it's a personal opinion a very divisive one but for me I just feel I don't know I've got a bit more affinity towards Stranger Things because I like the series if you're not a fan of the series you've got Attack from Mars it's going to be cheaper as well probably yeah I mean it's kind of I find sometimes I just when I'm faced with the dilemma of a game of choose I just find it so difficult to choose. It's such great games. I'm even just trying to decide what moves out of here next as the freaking nightmare. I'm like you. I'm at capacity now. I've got one space left over which we'll talk about later. That's where I was going. I was going to say the Cactus Canyon saga continues. Santa's too busy to deliver to us. Apparently Santa's Santa's wagon arrives on the 24th of December and thus there's no chance of them getting delivered. And I'll be honest with you, I'm kind of glad about that in some respects because it's got so late. The last thing I want to be – I mean, if it was to be delivered tomorrow, it would sit in my garage until after Christmas. I just wouldn't be able to do anything with it. So, I mean, I'm kind of annoyed given that we paid, what, three months ago? I can't remember how long ago it was. Yeah, 22nd of September I think we made final payment on it. Yeah. I did anyway. That to me is, you know, I mean, I love Phil. I know some people love him, some people hate him. I've never had any aggro with Phil, but that is on the borderline of taking the piss from my point of view. I think what we would have preferred to, like for me at least, circumstances meant I had to accelerate the sale of a game to make that money available. And I think if I'd have known that the game wasn't arriving this side of Christmas, I'd have probably asked to say, like, look, if you have no confidence that it's going to be arriving anytime soon, then I expect to pay my final payment closer to the shipping date. Yeah, which is normally how it is, actually. I just, you know, like, you know, Venom, you know, paid it when it was shipped out of the Stern factory. Yeah. And, you know, I kind of, you know, clearly the whole Cactus Canyon CGC district is a mess, basically. And I think, I genuinely think it's done CGC some damage to the point where, and actually let's talk about this now, where there's a rumor out there that tomorrow there's going to be an announcement about another remake company. Yeah, I've been knowing about that for some time. It's been a longstanding rumor, right? I feel like that's probably because if you read, like, not even read, but there was an interview that happened at one point with one of the Chicago Games employees. I forget who, but they also said that they didn't think there was much point in keeping the license on for other titles in the Valley Williams era because they'd already got the ones that were worth any value. So you read into that what you will. But for me, that kind of tells me they haven't got any interest in keeping the license anyway. Which leaves a question mark over what happens with Three runs for things like Medieval Madness Or Monster Bash Yeah, I mean, my sense would be I'm just thinking about that I mean, the only other games In my mind, there's two games That are, well In my mind, there's quite a few games That have got opportunity But there's only a couple of games that are easy So, the easy ones Totem, right? For some crazy reason, that game sells For stupid money I don't know why it's freaking terrible it just hit the spinning thing probably needs a code update if anything else though but again I would see that selling really well better than Cactus Canyon I mean Cactus Canyon is okay but code wise I bought my Cactus Canyon because the Lyman code is coming Do you think that's still going to happen? I'm pretty sure it's going to happen I'm pretty sure Josh will make sure That happens I've talked to him a few times about it And he's very keen He's a very good friend of Lyman I think he's keen to see this come out As his own personal tribute to Lyman That's how I read it It's not what he said but that's how I read it I think Totten's one of them Fear of magic Yeah fear of magic And both those games There's no licenses involved They're easy right Then you've got the hard ones Like you mentioned Twilight Zone I can't stand Twilight Zone But it's a game that sells It's a game that An okay Twilight Zone Will go for 4 or 5 grand A nice one will go for 10 or 11 Maybe even 12 if it's done well enough Right It's got a fan base And then of course But you need to get the licensor involved Etc Same with Adam's family right Yeah that's what I was going to say And Adam's family has had some challenges Over licencing in the past I then try and think What other games Beyond that Sorry? Yeah that's a definitely I think it's borderline a bit more Yeah the demand is there for it I think But this is the thing, right? It's getting that topper done, right? I don't know, as you probably know as well as I do, that foil is just so hard to reproduce. So for anyone that doesn't know in the context, sitting at the top of the game is basically like a waterfall effect, and they've tried to reproduce it in the past, and they can't get that 3D effect to make it look like water is basically streaming down, where the lights are bouncing off of it. I wonder if Williams knew when they were building that how unobtainium it would become. Because it is bizarre. And a topper can drive, like, a grand difference in the machine, you know. Oh, absolutely. It's insane. I've been offered a whitewater without a topper, and I said no. I was like, to me, at the value you're putting it at, I'd do exactly what you said. I'd knock a grand off because a topper holds so much value. Yeah, and you can't buy them. So unless you convince someone to part with those, which they're going to want, you know, stupid money to do that. Because they lose it on the game if they want to sell it. I mean, yeah, maybe Whitewater. There's other games I'd love to see them do, not because I think they'll sell well, but because I'd like a new one, like Shadow, Indy 500. These are popular. For me, these are popular tournament games, so having a... Shadow is a low-value game, though, isn't it? I don't know. Oh, absolutely. And give it a bill of materials, because that's the weird thing about Shadow. It's a bit like Twilight Zone. It's got a lot under the hood. A lot of stuff, yeah. I mean, same with Indy 500. It's got a lot of expensive mechs on it. But, you know, like Again, if he did those two games, they wouldn't make any money Out of them, that's for sure, but I mean, the other thing, the flip side to this though, Scott You know, when I think about it, which is All the folks in pinball land that You know, these games are not They're kind of, if they're new to them You know, and they're good games It's kind of like Some people are buying You know, a lot of retro console stuff Like GameCube stuff's gone through the roof in value Recently, because Because the games are great They're absolutely amazing and people want to play those games One of my favourite ones was Resident Evil The remake on it So that was really good And this is driven by Okay it's driven by us old gits that want to play these games again But it's also driven by people who You know they played I played this Luigi Mansion on the Switch What's the original like? Or I played Zelda And they want to go back And understand these IPs And I think Like, you know, it feels to me like, you know, in some ways, and you see the virtual pinball, I'm not talking about the V-pins, but the stuff you play on your laptop or your iPad. Yeah, Pimwex, stuff like that. They're moving pretty big. So, look, by the next time we do one of these, we'll have our cactus canyons. I think we should, like, when we get them, we should sit in front of them and do the podcast, like, almost literally sitting next to them and tapping them. real. So that people believe that they've arrived. Yeah, that'd be nice. My popularity rating was filled as a new level of load. I'm just kidding. But, yeah, that then points me to Pulp Fiction, you know, talking about Bruce earlier on. I dread to think how long I've got to wait until that game arrives. You've got one in order as well, right? No. For my spins at the time, I was like, what do they call it? Low level game when it's on the ramps? Single level, yeah. Single level game. So I said single level game to Holly, I said I don't want that. She went mental at me. She was like why have you not put an order in? Why haven't you got it? And I was like well the topper's gone now. And it's a bit like Whitewater, right? For me, Pulp Fiction without the topper, I was just like nah, I'll just leave it. Yeah, I mean I kind of it's kind of a weird one that you know when I first saw it, I was like, that looks terrible. That was my reaction. The artwork, right? When they first did that blurry picture that looks something like Lethal Weapon 3 with the gun. Do you remember in the play field? Terrible, I thought. I posted somewhere, and Josh Sharpe saw it, and he's winding me up. He's like, why don't you like this game? And I didn't know he was involved in it. I was like, mate, are you involved? He's like, yeah, I'm doing the rules. I was like, oh, okay. And then I got to play it. I was going to say, suffice to say, I was utterly wrong. Yeah. One wouldn't ever let me down on it. And basically Josh said to me, Neil, you're going to want this game. And I like phoned Phil, Phil put me down. I think it was like two days before they properly announced it. Oh, you were lucky then because there were quite, it was quite a kerfuffle is probably the term I would use around how, you know, we thought we had more and then there was quite a few. Phil's checkout software went A bit kind of Robocop And Didn't protect The public But There's a great game Yeah I mean so I'm Kind of glad and I played it Three or four times different places I played it in a tournament actually And won on it That was awesome I had a really good game on it And I was like I was like, I literally pinged them and said, guys, I want one of these for the UK Open. Please, you know, I'll give you 20 grand right now. Just send me one of these freaking games. And they're just, nah, we can't send you one. I was like, what? Anyway, yeah, it's, I'm really looking forward to it. I love, as you know, I love those kind of games of that era. Should we make a prediction? I think we should make a prediction. Yeah, honestly, I'm going to go with, yeah, so for me, based on what's happened with Cactus, but on Lessons Learned, I'm looking more positively, that we may see some units in America, so sort of America first, by, I would say, mid-September. And I'd say... You're not that far away. I think that far away, yeah, absolutely. I think they're going to be not that quick. But that's optimistic for me. And then for the UK, I think potentially the start of next year. So the start of, sorry, 2025. So that'll be January 2025. Okay, here's my prediction. I think the US will see games shipped in February. Wow, okay. I'm pretty sure about that. I think... I don't know. I just think they're still wrapping up. Think about it logically. They're still making Essies, I think, that's still got to be made. So I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt on this one. I think we'll see some ship in February I think We will see The UK ones I think I'm going to go where you are mate Which is early 2025 Yeah And Actually saying that out loud is making me cry With despair About You'll have so many different pins by that point You won't have any room Yeah although I have to say Let's cover this now Which is the new games The rumour mill right now I look at what's coming from Stern And I look at What Spooky have just launched Which we'll talk about a bit in detail I look at what J.J.P. Have just launched And I kind of Look out there and I'm thinking I'm not sure that the stuff that's coming Is really for me Pokemon There's no way, unless that game is I mean, this is the thing As a theme Pokemon just doesn't interest me at all If that's true I'm so Skeptical about that being the real Being the real thing because It's going to be a cabbage patch kids instead I just look at the people who All these folks that have just gone out and Bought gazillions of Foo Fighters and I just think, are they really going to buy Pokemon? Just the volume players. It's a balance act though, isn't it? Because the people who they're aiming at aren't the collectors, they're the families. They're trying to go to say, right, look, your kids are going to want this, you might not, but your kids will. And then they're probably thinking, well, this is a way to kind of build the next generation in. Maybe. I wish I believed that the pinball industry was that complex. It just feels like a theme You know I look at Venom as an example right That has been shot to shit all over the place because of the theme And, look, it's not like a top one IP for Marvel, right, a top five. No. But it's not the worst theme in the world, right? No, the worst they could have picked on. I mean, they could have done Fantastic Four. Yeah or Ant-Man I would say is worse than Venom Oh god From a comic book point of view Maybe not from a movie point of view But I just think After that and Led Zeppelin And Rush You know I kind of think who's buying a Pokemon Pinball machine They are all over the joint aren't they when they come to their licenses Because Rush For me felt obviously it didn't hit Really well here at all we know that There isn't really much of it. Yeah, I mean, my guess for Rush is it was a cheap license. But with that and Led Zeppelin, I reckon if you allocated the costs to them that they deserve, if they broke even, I'd be stunned by it. Do you think they'd ever have the guts to do a Michael Jackson pin? No. No. No. Given the controversy. It's a shame because I think, like, whatever happened aside, his music is historical. I would be first in the queue for Michael Jackson. I mean, there's a guy who did Moonwalking Dead. If you Google on YouTube for Moonwalking Dead. Oh, yeah, the re-theme of Moonwalking Dead. He nailed it. I've actually played the game. It was in Boston. I used to go to Boston and work a lot. And I played it and I was like, this is awesome. It actually gave me the idea for Disco Maiden. That's where I got the idea from And the guy totally nailed it I mean look it's rough Because it's a homebrew right But I thought this was fantastic You know I would love A Michael Jackson pen You know Music pens to me Are kind of If I was in the business of selling stuff You know I would only be going for places Where you know It's like the Beatles right And this is kind of the shame of where the Beatles went from a pinball point of view but you look at that new record that came out and it sold didn't it hit number one I think? It sold insanely and staring at a money making scheme on Beatles that backfired, if they came out with a Beatles pinball in a regular way they'd be everywhere, I'd have one here they would have sold like I think I was too late to the pinball hobby at that point, because I think it had already been announced. So what happened then? Did they just... The MSRP was just... Yes, they limited it to, like, I think in total, about 1,900 games. Right. Of which, I want to say, 1,800 of them were the Gold Edition, which is what you typically see. And then there was, I think, 100 of them were the Platinum Edition, and then there was 50 that were the Diamond Edition. And the Diamond Edition I think was retailing For like 40 grand Wow Even the Gold Edition was Retailing I think for 15 grand I can't exactly remember But it was basically twice The price Yeah it must be 15 grand It was twice the price of a regular Pro And it is a good game But it's not worth twice the price Of a regular Pro Was it a pro level game though? Just about It's single level So it's like Bond But it's based on a really good Stern classic game called Sea Witch Although there's no The shape of the game is the same But the actual geometry is entirely different Does it do anything like The James Bond one Where it does the score reel Or anything like that It's got score reels on it but they're on the LCD, and that's what everyone assumed would be in Bond. It'd be like a virtual reel, not an actual reel. I think everyone expected Bond to follow. I certainly felt that's what Bond was going to do. But, you know, it's a decent game. I would definitely, if I get one for, you know, seven or eight grand, I would buy one. Actually, I missed one. Tony, who runs Medway and has the biggest collection of pinballs and deep threes in the world, He has a Beatles I missed it by like a minute on the forum And That and X-Men LE That he had I was trying to buy them off him but he'd never sell them to me Anyway I'd only touched bands Like ACDC, Metallica Led Zeppelin You think it's a big band And it was But is it now? You know, Foo Fighters Definitely a big band I think that's done well for Stern Iron Maiden, I mean Iron Maiden's just a no-brainer, right? It's just so obvious that's going to sell like crazy But yeah You know, Jaws I'm all in for Jaws There's a rumour of an SLE I mean, I told Philip there's one I want Of course you do I love that movie, it's freaking awesome Do you think the rumours are true though That they haven't got some of the characters on it And stuff like that If they have it wouldn't surprise me It would disappoint me but it wouldn't surprise me I can see You know You need a bigger boat I can see that not being in it easily At least Well I mean this is the thing right They'll have the rights Well I would assume They've at least got rights to the film Footage and the audio right so it'll be in there right they'll have rights to the music though as well right i would be amazed given the time of jaws i would be amazed if they didn't get the music yeah they got to right if the game doesn't have the jaws music and it's dead on arrival for me yeah well either that or someone has to do a movie i mean i'd be ridiculous if that's the case um but the but the um yeah if if uh it's roy schneider is it i'm trying to i don't remember the guy's name um oh well the actor that you yeah absent from he's he's the guy he plays the sheriff the um sheriff's name's gone out my head anyway he plays the sheriff guy and and um the one that keeps telling people to get off the beach yeah exactly and yeah you're gonna need a bigger boat which actually i found out was an improvised line um oh really yeah he just made it up on the spot Which I thought was awesome I only found that out recently If they haven't got the music For me that would be Jurassic Park without the music And actually Stan got away With very little They could do a Jurassic Park Where they don't have the assets So they do everything in cartoons But they've got the music and they've got enough call outs And Nedry Which you know is something And yeah I mean it was Yeah, Nedry, I think Nedry was, I think they got away with it just, but actually, they got away with it because the game was so good, right? I mean, the T-Rex heads, it's a great piece. Yeah, but if the game was shit, they would have got killed, I think. It's a Keith Elwin game, isn't it? And that's the same thing with Jaws, it's going to be a Keith Elwin game. It will probably sell by the bucket loads by his name alone, and deservedly so. He makes arguably the best games in pinball. Yeah, I mean, he's definitely on fire. I mean I kind of You know if he does You know this is his fifth game Or sixth game You win them all Yeah this is game six if you include James Bond You know for him to do Six for six of good games That would be a Pretty amazing feat Because you know If I went back and looked at Steve Ritchie's Sixth game or Pat Lawler's sixth game or, you know, fifth, sixth or seventh. Oh, yeah, every developer has their hit and miss, right? But then again... A real shitter. Could Jaws be the miss? We'll find out, I suppose. Oh, God, I hope not. Make it, give Keith Pokemon, make that be the miss. And then there's a rumour about a remake of Metallica which scares the hell out of me. Okay, why? Because the original Metallica is one of the best games on the planet. Oh, so you're not talking about a vault edition, You're talking about a remake Yeah, well, this is the thing, right So, Vault In Stern's vocabulary Can be anything from We're just making some more of the same game To actually we're redoing the game Right Because Star Trek Vault was just that It was a different badge on it, right But if you look at Spider-Man Vault They went from The Tobey Maguire Comic book, right Which actually was cool except the Collets were terrible on it and it ruined the game But If they do You know a Metallica If all they do is just add an LCD screen to it and just tar up The DMD I could live with that If they mess about with the Rules that Lyman wrote That would be sacrilege in my view I mean I would like them to Do something more interesting personally, I'd rather them do what ColourDMD's been doing, right? So like that one there is ColourDMD, so add in a DMD, keep it the same, but make it colour. Like Chicago Games do, right? So I think that would be probably the best upgrade for it. And then, as you say, any kind of improvements that could be made to any service bulletins they've released that have been to a particular fault. Maybe tweak a few things, although I would argue that Metallica is one of those games where there's no real exploits on it. There's no one path. It's kind of cool. And the other thing is they sold a lot of Metallica. Metallica was on the kind of return to pinball, you know, the world. It was riding that wave. Yeah, and after they did Ghostbusters, they made more Metallicas. Logically for me, and I know you don't really like the game, but Ghostbusters has a huge demand. I would have thought it makes much more sense to do a Ghostbusters if that's the case then. If they sold too many units, it's not like the game's scarce. I could pick up one if I wanted to. It's not that difficult to grab a Metallica. Ghostbusters, on the other hand, is pretty damn hard. It's nuts because Stern were pumping them out for a really long time. I mean, the year that Ghostbusters came out, I think they only did two games that year. They also moved to their old factory. So they were in their really old factory, they moved to a new factory and Ghostbusters was kind of made just before, they started making it just before the move and then just after the move. I'd use that as an excuse to put it to bed once and for all. Was the flipper gap intended or not? Because then they could do the rerun. It's not going to be the gap you're short of. You can piss off thousands of people. Take the value of every Ghostbusters out there. I tell you, if they did that, I would be back in because it would just make the game a bit more fun to play. Well, it was a straight down the middle drainer, wasn't it? It really was. You know, or make the centre post official. Yeah. But a lot of people put the centre post. Yeah, and then the other, I'm trying to remember the other couple of Stern things. There was one other thing that was coming that's escaped me. More toppers, no doubt. Yeah, well, yeah. I mean, from what I can see, there's more toppers than games now. I've seen pictures of these, like, huge warehouses just with toppers top to bottom. Don't get me wrong. I think doing a Black Knight topper, I've said it for years, the demand surely isn't there like it used to be. It was back when the game was more fresh, and people were still kind of talking about it, but I don't really know. When was the last time you heard anyone going, I really, really want to play a Black Knight? It's Yeah it's kind of a weird one There was a thread on Facebook about it That there was a lot There was more love for the game than I thought I like it, it's still there Yeah I had one, I liked it Yeah But I think there is The thing is The toppers double what I paid for it Which is nuts It's $1,500 now Oh yeah I paid $400 for mine and the yeah I mean I think you had that game you know Black Knight tends to sell at a lower price especially with the top you know I don't need to damage your prospects to sell in the game if you want to but my sense is those that have still got that game are probably going to hang on to it for a while Oh anybody who's got it now yeah likely it's a keeper it's not a terrible game. I quite enjoyed it. I liked the whole premise around defeating all the boss types, basically, and working your way up to the castle end guy, which I got to, I think, twice from memory. It was brutally hard when you were trying to fight that mace, because it was spinning such ferocity. Yeah, it was definitely challenging. Yeah. The Yeah, I just So then I look at what else is coming down the line. So obviously Spooky, let's talk about that. They've announced Looney Tunes and Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Yeah. And I have to say, it's kind of weird. It seems to be like, and I've heard this, I was thinking this and I've heard it from a couple of folks, which is you've kind of got the spooky in the world of horror and cartoons. So you just have Scooby-Doo, you had Halloween It kind of feels like That's their niche now It's either horror or it's a cartoon Which is great because I don't think Stern or JGP Would touch either of those things In my mind Trying to think of one they've done recently, you're right They don't really look at those Cartoon wise, I can't imagine Stern going near it Horror wise they used to Like Walking Dead, stuff like that Yeah, Walking Dead Well maybe Elvira Yeah, it's considered horror. What else? You might say Godzilla's a bit of horror. Touch, Stranger Things, kind of horror-y. Batman, that well-known horror game. Stern's probably not too afraid, but I think you're right. Any hardcore horror, they probably feel like... Mainstream, I think they're never going to do Texas Chainsaw Massacre. They're just not going to touch that But I say Looking at Looking at both those games And it's great that they've got dedicated Teams on it so like the one of the Shoot show that they had with Ultraman and Halloween I mean that was just I actually had an Ultraman Order and I bailed out of it It cost me a grand to bail Out of it I did the same thing with Halloween But I just told by so many people that it was a third and then when I finally played it it was a third so I was glad I did one better than you, I sold my deposit so I only lost £250 nah I just feel I don't want it mate, if it cost me a grand that's fine but yeah I kind of look at, you know the other rumour is Fifth Element yeah my wife said that's a day one purchase for her as long as she pays for it Yeah, I mean, I have to say, again, theme-wise, it's not like a must-buy, but if it's a good game, I'll buy it. For me, the game Muppets would be an instant buy. What do you say, though? The Muppets show or the Muppets Christmas Carol? I don't care. I'll buy it. I mean, I'd prefer it was a show, but I honestly don't care. I think I like Christmas Carol, you know. Yeah, I mean, they're both good. As it's cradles. And then this is where we get into the kind of, oh, my God, I hope they don't screw it up, which is, you know, so, you know, sorry, not labyrinth. You're into the, you know, what's going to happen with Back to the Future. So I think It's definite that There is something going on With Back to the Future and Dutch Pinball It's absolutely They've definitely got something I think we'll know Over the next few months what they've got And I kind of feel For those that are Back to the Future fans Because if they think that the wait for Cactus Canyon Is long I fear for how long the wait for Back to the Future might be I think probably a lot of that though to be fair when you look at the history of what happened with Dutch Pinball, they had that fallout with the guy who was manufacturing then there was a lot of to and fro of legals, that caused a huge amount of drama and delays, I think now they've got the factory and they've shown the tour you've probably watched it right, because Tineda said I'll buy you a pizza if you do a tour and it was fairly, you know, you could see it was a small boutique, right and you're right, they could probably maybe churn out 50 machines at a push a month, maybe if that. I don't know how they're ever going to deal with the demand that would happen from Back to the Future. That's why I was a bit like there are people in our community, at least, that are like, oh, this is great that Dutch Pinball have got it. And I'm a little bit like, they've got, obviously, a dedicated bunch of people there and they know what they're doing and they love pinball and they can seem to know how to build a theme and they can do the mechs. So can they scale it? because that's my biggest concern can you meet the demand that will happen from that game, you'll sell like 5000 units of that game, but also can you code it, can you get the sound right, can you get the integration it's such a iconic, sorry for many people, not for me, you know it's got, it's one of those things that the fans are like ruthless fans, you know, if you say something negative about it, they'll literally hunt you down and kill you, but it's got those sort of fans and I just fear that they're going to be disappointed and especially after the Data East back to America which is I mean let's just not even talk about it it's bad and then I kind of think the other companies you know so you know Labyrinth seems to be doing alright you start seeing them turn up in the US in people's homes again still not a game for me. Did you bail out? Did you stick with it on Labyrinth? For me, I think there's a couple of problems with me when it comes to the new inbox. I'm a bit disillusioned from buying new inbox after Cactus Canyon. I think I've had Elvira. I lost money on it because of what happened because of Cactus Canyon and that was new inbox. And I'm just a little bit concerned the way the market is at the moment. If I buy new inbox, I don't want to have to lose three, four grand plus on a unit just because someone else feels it's worth that much. It's like, if they think it's worth that much, you have to wonder, look, at one point or another, there's going to be a lack of people buying new and boxed because they don't want to take that kind of loss when it comes to selling it on. I get the fact you're never going to get close to what you pay for it, and that's a realistic fashion, but to lose four grand on something that's just effectively had 100 plays on it, it's a bit insulting. Yeah, I mean, I can't help but agree. That's why I was thinking about bailing out of Venom, frankly, was because, crikey, I just walk out the minute that it's dropped off in my house, it's only lost four grand in value. And if it's not a game that I like, I don't mind losing money on games that I like because I won't sell them. I'll just keep them, right? But this game that I end up selling... I can't put myself in a position anymore where I'm buying a game sight and see. Yeah. And I want to be able to play it. And I feel like, well, if I missed the opportunity to buy it, so be it. Yeah. That's kind of how it is now. Yeah, and you look at, you know, those that have got Turtles and Led Zeppelin were starting to chop the price back in October. You know, it's kind of a... And the other thing for me If I was an Elvira 40th owner I would have gone nuts when they released that Blood Red version Which is the ultimate version It is, it's the one you want to have And I did hear a rumour That the knife was going to be made available Separately though so Fingers crossed that's the case Because I'll be ordering that for mine And then I look at the other games You've got, I don't know why But Haggis doing Centaur That, for me, is just bizarre. I just struggle to see where they're going with that. Jersey Jack. I mean, who knows what's coming at Jersey Jack? The big rumor is Harry Potter. I was going to say, I know a couple of people that have said to me that's a day one purchase, if it is. I feel for the designer that has that IP. I think I've said this before. Do you think they'll base it on the books or the movies? Yeah but I think it has to be based on the movies I would have thought so right But you know the challenge of that is It's such a big franchise And everyone's When you do When you do Wizard of Oz It's really easy there's one movie It's a start, middle and an end right Harry Potter There's so much There are like seven movies Yeah there's seven movies then there's the beast side movie and some other thing. And everyone has got their own mental model in their brain of what they want to see in a Harry Potter game. And I think trying to capture enough of that is... I put it this way, if the designer does that and lands it, they are superstars in my view. But then again, if you look at Lord of the Rings, which is a little bit out of shot for me, but I mean, that's a big movie, a big trilogy to take in. and they did manage it. I feel like they did encompass a lot of the movie elements in there. Yeah, but Lord of the Rings compared to... Lord of the Rings... Don't get me wrong, you are comparing three movies to seven, but yeah. Yeah, but also, Lord of the Rings is we went here, then we went there, then we went here, then we went there, then we went here. You could argue the same thing with Harry Potter, though. Nah, nah, no way. No way. I'm not a fan of... Actually, I did read the books of Lord of the Rings, which are way better than the movies in my view. But, I mean, the movies are as good an adaptation as I think anyone could do. But my take is that the big set pieces in Lord of the Rings were easy to identify than they would be in Harry Potter. I don't know, you could do the Prisoner of Azkaban, the Philosopher's Stone, Quidditch. I can name a couple of things off my head. If you covered off the bare minimum, you'd probably satisfy most. As you say, though, it's not an easy thing. That's the thing though, it's kind of like for some people it's like in some ways this is where someone like Stranger Things and The Walking Dead and Game of Thrones were kind of lucky in that when they came out there was only three seasons of each. I think Walking Dead was two. So you don't have that problem, but now you've got the problem I was going to say, could you imagine facing a pen on Walking Dead now? And all the spin-offs And that's exactly the point I'm making Which is it'd be Super hard So yeah let's talk about Texas Chainsaw Massacre Yeah give that a bit of limelight First of all Hats off to Spooky for getting another game out So quickly And if you'd said to me In Texas would they have another game out By now I would have said no way But they've nailed it And actually when I look at the layout it's probably the first layout they've done it's not a wide body is it, it's a back to standard body yeah, back to standard body and the layout just feels like a layout I would be interested in yeah, no upper playfield so they've listened to the people about they want a game with flow and it's you know, the layout just I mean, there's a bit of walking down in the layout for my liking which, you know, Luke, that's my favourite game no shame there Stop you there for a second then obviously both of them are effectively the same playfield but obviously with different bits on top and the codes different da da da da da given the choice, where do you sit? Oh, so that will depend on how much inappropriate humour they put into Looney Tunes Are you saying you're going to have Foghorn Leghorn going, ah say ah say If they, Luke They're racist characters that are no longer appropriate for today I don't think they're racist are they not? I think they're a little dated I mean like what's the name of the mouse they're not politically correct politically correct alright give me that but you know look the old lady you know they could do a great here's a gag that Stooky could do and Stooky you can have this for free right they could have an old lady chucking money you know the old lady that burns he's her house by burning money right and they could have this in the game and they can put the Stern logo above the fire. I don't think they're going to do that. If you don't do this, I'm going to buy the game and I'm going to hack it and I'm going to put that in myself. Seriously, that would be hilarious. That's the humour that I want to see in this, though. Do you get me, right? I do. I mean, do you know what? If I had a cartoon based around that, I would have had Wacky Races over what I did. Yeah, yeah, yeah, with a dog. and Muttley. Muttley is like just the funniest character ever. I think I learned all of my wind-up as a kid growing up watching him on TV. I think that's where my wind-up influence came from. When I make my wife laugh enough she sounds like Muttley. I'm not even joking. She does the laugh just like him. She's great for that. I used to go, 10 medals Muttley! And I used to set her off and be like because you remember he used to go he used to like, every time he was falling he would like go, I'll give you a medal and he'd be like, no, ten medals then save me, and he'd be like, okay, I'll do it for ten medals I used to love that, that was the catch the pigeon, that was it Yeah, that's right, I mean the other thing I mean, it's kind of in some ways the Texas Chainsaw Massacre part kind of mirrors Labyrinth, but from a different angle I watched the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre Again this week It's fucking terrible I bet it's dated, that's the problem It's so bad, I mean so bad it's good But look They don't need to capture the datedness Of the film And I'm probably going to get People from Texas with chainsaws Turn up at my door tomorrow for saying that But it is not the best movie And I think, I remember I can't remember if it was the original one It must have been the second one Where there a guy who got a metal head And a hook And it just like Really I just thinking and you know this was the golden age of VHS where you had all these video nasties where you know you'd loan them and they'd been played a million times. The other one that was, and this one I would, this is an instant buy for me. It's linked to Texas Chainsaw Massacre. But if they had Donner the Dead Zombies. Which one, though? The shopping center one. Okay, the George A. Moreiro movie. Yeah, Dawn of the Day. That was my favourite zombie movie of all time. I loved that. If they did that movie, I am in. I am in. And they've got to get the music down with the sickness. They've got to get every part of it. What was it, Ring of Fire at the start? Yeah. That was so good. I'm not going to watch that film again now. I love that film. It's such a good movie, mate. It really is. Yeah. But, like I say, I think the layout is good. The ramps, these kind of weird plastic ramps. Why? I didn't I tell you what on the ramp subject I didn't like what they did with the powder coat for the ramps yes is it a powder coat or is it plastic no I think no no it's ok if you're talking about the ramps at the start they are definitely I think powder coated metal ramps ok alright so the worry about that though is it looks as you say kind of cheap so if you're mistaking it for plastic that's kind of worrying the second part that worries me is that as it's a powder coat unless they're using a really thick clear coat on top, it might wear and thin out. It will wear. I mean, every ramp I've got has got a line in it, you know. Yeah. There's no question it'll wear. And doing it at that pace, they're probably not going to be able to do, do you know what I mean, like a triple coat. They're going to be like sending those off to the powder coaters and they're going to be like, I've got like a thousand units of these things, just crack on. They'll be like, all right, one coat will do it. I mean, I had it like Pimple Brothers, right? When they gave me my LV, because I had an early run of that, when they were doing the powder cut on that, you could scratch it with your fingernail. It was that fine. It was like literally, it just wouldn't last. They had to send me another lock bar because it was so easy to wear it, basically. Yeah, I mean, when I first saw it, and I watched a bit of the stream that they did of TCM, but the Looney Tunes artwork, again, they've nailed it. Yeah, I think the play field looks a little bit busy, if I'm honest. I thought there was a bit too much going on But I think the artwork on the Cabinet and the backbox And stuff like that, it looked really good Yeah, I mean It looks You know, it's a beautiful Looking game, you know, unfortunately It's boring, but I mean, I genuinely, I look at You know, I look at Looney Tunes, and I look at Text Tunes of Masked Eye, I can say Yeah, these look like the games that I want to play And I'm excited about it I haven't ordered one because I want to make sure that they don't Piss up the theme We don't want another Ultraman Is what I want Like I say If there's not either The campness Texas Chainsaw Massacre They've got to capture the weird Campness of that movie Looney Tunes They've got to have inappropriate Humor, now that doesn't have to be The politically incorrect Humor, although I would love it to be And probably most pinball people would But it needs to be inappropriate For a modern day game Right, so it's Got to have Daffy Duck saying You're despicable for doing something In modern times that would be funny But despicable, right They've got to If they don't capture that Then they've just missed I think they can. I mean, it looks like they've got, like, you know, there were some people, like, naively going on, why's the trailer not got any of the music? And I'm like, that's just because of simple YouTube copyright, right? They might get a license for a period in time, but, like, a year from now, they don't want their video suddenly struck, and then the audio's gone. So, I completely get it. Stern do the same thing. They'll never put, like, the official music on, just because it's easier to bypass it that way. But I'm pretty confident they'll have the music, they'll have some people doing either impersonations, good ones, or maybe the original voice actors, who knows. I think, to me, if I had to choose between the two, I'd probably go Texas Chainsaw, only because I like the twist that you play as the people who are murdering people, rather than the people who are running away. You'd think it's like Halloween, you're going to run away from the murderer. It's like, no, you are the murderer. You are trying to capture and kill as many people as you can. I tend to I mean I am swaying towards that Just because I think It's an easier theme to not Screw up Looney Tunes I mean you know for me I've got I've got a file server That's got just about every Looney Tunes Cartoon ever made including some That really were That today you'd go to jail for And You know when my grandkids are around, not the inappropriate ones, but I've always got it on, and they love it. They absolutely love it. It's simple. Those were wartime ones they used to do, do you remember? Yeah. Those certainly wouldn't float anymore. No. Bugs Bunny's shooting the Chinese or whatever it was. Yeah, absolutely. Or the Nazis. Well, actually, that might be back in for America, but no, I mean, my take on it is, So I've got a really, I've got the kind of Frankie Boyle approach to humor, which is if it's funny, it's funny, right? And, you know, I was reading, I don't know if you've heard a guy called Kevin Bloody Wilson, Australian guy. Go Google him. But if you play any of his videos, he swears a lot. But he's absolutely freaking hilarious. But in today's age You know he got I think he was huge in a time where You know That sort of comedy was seen as Politically okay Now it's seen as politically incorrect But when you watch it it's still freaking funny So you know That's my it's like you know Frankie Ball he's another one of these comedians That's right on the edge But I find them hilarious And you know I think Have I Got News For You, where he was talking about the Queen's private parts, which is just a no-go zone for just about everyone on the planet. But he went there and it was funny, right? I won't mention Jaffa for fear of... Let's not. Let's not. No offence intended. Just as funny. But anyway, we will move swiftly on. So yeah, I think we're both on the side of Texas Chainsaw Mass Car. Yeah. I'm in the U.S. in January. I'm hoping that usually Ace Goge, a big shout-out to the guys there, Shane, who runs Ace Goge, the pinball machines there. It's an epic place in Los Angeles for pinball. He's always got the newest games from all the manufacturers, and he's a brilliant guy. He's on tilt pinball as well. The food there is insanely good I highly recommend it I'm hoping to drop by there On the way to INDISC Hoping that he's got One of these games there So yeah Just looking at the time When you're having fun mate Time flies doesn't it A couple other things I want to Quickly First of all the other thing is Pinsight do this thing every year Called Pinsight Secret Santa It's freaking awesome British people, I'd love to see more of you guys Get involved in it I get involved in it, a guy I got Actually I can't say where he was I'll give it away Les Manley Or I forget his real name On the Pinsight Forum runs it, it's great It's awesome, one guy This happened last year, this happened again this year One guy, someone bought him a brand new Pinball machine Yeah, I mean, look, it's not I think they aim it at around 40 bucks Or something, right? I've got a bunch of stuff under my tree that I've got no idea what it is so I'm looking forward to opening it out, I'll take some photos of it but it's a great little thing, it's a lot of fun and I'd love to see more Brits get involved in it next year Twippy Drama I just I want to cry basically It's sad isn't it I get why the way it's happened, the way it is but I don't really understand the outcome, if I'm honest. I mean, like, don't go by the logic of at least what I understand, and you'll have to correct me if I'm wrong, but they want to have it so that anyone who basically has won it previously can no longer win it again, correct? Yeah. So if I'm honest, that makes it a Q system. You're eventually going to win it, so we're going to win it by that logic. A hundred years from now, we'll win. Yay! Yeah, exactly. I think other people have kind of echoed this before. It diminishes the... The supply. Yeah. I think, like, to me, it should at least... You could have maybe a situation where you can't win it repeatedly in two years in a row, three years in a row, whatever it happens to be, if you really want. But I don't really get the whole logic of you can't ever win it again. Yeah, I mean, the whole thing has been a comedy of errors from start to finish. The whole point And look, when you're running stuff like this You're doing it voluntarily, you don't get paid for it Okay, that's cool, right But there comes a time when you might think Actually, I'm screwing this up so badly Maybe someone else should do it Let's give someone else a choice I'm not saying that they're screwing it up necessarily But it feels like I have a real love for the twippies Because I was driving back back maybe this time when Twippies, the first Twippies was done, right? When was that, out of interest? It must be about five years ago. Maybe. Four or five years ago, right? Okay. And it's the straight down the middle guys that are, they're in their houses like we are. They're wearing bow ties and shit. Yeah, I can imagine. And Zach and Greg Bowen, And they fucking nailed it. They're great, funny guys. They're brilliant together. They've got a real kind of chemistry between them. And I was driving home late one night. I'd had to drive my mum's, Mandy's dad home. She lives up where I actually knew were pinball offices. Shout out to them. And I'm driving back, and I'm, like, bored of listening. It's Christmas, and I'm kind of done with driving home for Christmas. I'm like, okay, what can I listen to? And this is on. live. So I put it on on my phone and it's playing through the car system and they're talking about favourite streamers and they go Domino Pinball right? I was like wow I didn't I didn't win it but they just mentioned a bunch of people and I thought it's great that someone in the community has mentioned it and it's the same for Canada's awards where we were on the list and neither of us said we want to be on the list. It completely threw me off when my wife said, you know you're on the list, right? And I was like, what? And I was like, oh. We've done seven or eight or nine, I can't remember how many it is, but I wouldn't call us like an outfit or an organisation in fact we're pretty disorganised because we've both got lives, right? And in this whole thing, and actually I am pretty much an anti-awards person. In fact, in my career, loads of organizations have tried to give me awards, and actually I freaked them out because and I've posted this before, when they say, we want to give you an award, I'm like, how did you judge it? And they're like, what? And I was like, yeah, how did you judge it? How am I winning this and Fred here isn't? I want to be really clear about that. And in most cases, you then get some bullshit right um and i'm i'm like actually i don't want to win this because it's a bullshit award um and it's either being won by popularity it's been won because i've said something that someone else just hasn't or but it hasn't yeah oh you've provided an extra benefit to the business yeah some reason right it doesn't matter what the reason is but you know and there's There's like two or three awards that I've accepted in my career. And I've turned down, I mean, I'm not trying to brag about this, but dozens, right? And actually, the other thing is, especially work-related stuff, it's never you as an individual. It's about a team, right? Oh, yeah, absolutely. And that's the other thing that kind of boils my blood when these goons pick up an award and think they did something brilliant. And actually, all they did was shout about it. That winds me up as well. But there's a couple of things I accepted only because they were measured really effectively, right? Sure. And there's no more greater measure, in my view, than people voting if they love you or hate you, right? Absolutely, yeah, yeah. The thing, though, right, it's governing that. Because I heard that they had problems before where they said people had been botting. I think even Canada's account issue had a problem where you had to dismiss some votes because people had been botting, I think, Scooby-Doo or something. Yeah, Scott, humans be human, right? You'll get some asshats that scam the vote, and yeah, that's a pain. But what you can do is say, hey, you people, you can't vote for Fred. That's just like, no. Then it's not the People's Awards anymore. It's your Bozo Awards, and I don't want it, right? I mean, genuinely, that's how I feel about it. And, Luke, you know, there's some questions. What you're saying, Neil, is we're never going to win it. Yeah, we're not. I'll tell you what, right. Actually, I made a gag. The last time, actually, I was, well, one of the last things I did in my previous job, which was an honour. But I always try to be, like, in these events, I always try and come up with something funny or interesting. I want people to walk away and remember that moment. And I was asked to give out this really prestigious award at BT that is properly judged. It's like a medal. And the guy who's winning it is a fucking awesome guy, Paul. I super deserved it. And I was like, this is awesome. And I was like, and just as I stood up, something came out of my head that was wholly inappropriate, but it was hilarious, so I went with it. And the great thing about giving out an award is that you know that you haven't won it. And of course, the whole place is laughing. You know, and it was something like You know, when you ask for an When you ask to present an award, you know that you haven't won anything So, anyway And, you know, that It's, for me, the award The thing about awards is about Who's giving them and why And, you know, if it's Some, you know, like, I went to an event Where Some IT event where Basically, if you bought a table You got an award, right and I just thought this is, and the thing is, they had like about 100 tables and this poor guy on the stage was saying, and the award for blah blah blah, and no one, after number six, no one gave a shit anymore. It was like, where's the booze, right? And I just, like, no, that's not... I've got to admit, for me, right, when we started this, I'm not doing this because I want to win something. I did this because I just like talking about pinball. Exactly, 100%. If you're doing this to win an award, you're doing it for the wrong reasons. And actually, you'll likely never win the award. And if you do win it, it'll be meaningless. And this is where we go back to the point you were making earlier. They have sliced and diced this in so many ways. I actually pity the person who wins it because they are a non-winner. They are a manufactured outcome, which I think is outrageous. And they're not doing it live anymore, are they? No, there's some bollocks about people being threatening. I'm like, honestly, they're just, you know, there's easy ways to deal with that, right? There's always going to be someone like that, right? Yeah, I mean, we had a guy who flown a bomb threat at the UK Open, but that made me more determined to run it, right? I just, I feel, you know, look, the Twippies are like, you know, only the biggest thing in pinball know are they a bit of fun and a bit of light relief. Yeah, and actually, the Twippies themselves when they're on in Texas, people get dressed up, it's a bit of a pinball glam night. Well, I really enjoyed it when Todd Tuckey won. Yeah. Because to me that was like, hey, you know, I don't want to call him the underdog because he's been around for years. He is the underdog, right? He was in my book, he does, and I really like the guy and I was super happy. And he wins because of his content. It's not because he's got a whiz-bang titles and graphics. He wins because he's just a Joe talking about people. He's charming and he's funny. He's sour. It is like literally like, I don't want to sound like, Todd, if you ever listen to this, I'm not knocking your age, mate, but it's like your granddad talking about stuff. Honestly, he's like going, here's your television set. And it's like, it's not a television set, Todd, but it's great. You do you, mate. Yeah, I love it when he calls stuff a television show. I just love it. I love it. He's saying this for me. I've met him many times. He's an absolute gentleman. He is. The thing is, this is what I like about him. On the show, it's how he is. There's no... Yeah, there's no persona at play. It's how he is. Absolutely. He's saying this, and actually it was on his show. I sent him a photo of it. It's up in the Domino Arcade. He's super genuine isn't he That's what I love about him She's not the easiest to love If you listen to some of his talks But Someone like him To say that he can't win it Is just a freaking nonsense In my view When he works his tits off It's a lot of work what he does He does this cap hazardly He's doing it all the time Not only that He works really hard and it's entertaining, right? If he worked really hard and it was rubbish, then no, he shouldn't get the award, but he's got the two things. He puts the work in and it's entertaining, you win. It's that simple in my view, right? And people will vote for him because of that. And, you know, you just, to control it in the way that they are now trying to control it just makes absolutely no sense to me. There's other guys out there that, you know, that deserve, the straight down the middle guys can't win it. And I'm like, what? I mean, they don't do so much content now, but still when they do. It kind of like, I don't know, it stifles the community doing this, I think. It does. And it acts as a censorship. I don't understand it. And I'll be honest, that's where I kind of draw the line. I've been building the internet for the last 35 years. And one of the reasons I wanted to build this platform, and I busted my gut trying to get it over the line here, is to give people a platform to say what they believe and do what they believe. And when someone tries to control it, it winds me up endlessly. I can tell. It's a special band. Yeah. I'm sure if you talk to Colin or Will or Kaneda or anyone, they'll have a version, right? We've all got our versions. And, you know, the whole point of these changes were to reduce drama. I think you might want to try again, basically. If they just left it as it was No issue And I feel for I forget Jeff who used to be the Twip guy, he must be like crying about this Because You know, you're seeing Twip, which was at one point in time The website to go to It's probably not anymore You've got Nap Arcade, you've got Pinball News And a few other places Connecticist It's an opinion now Well you know Colin's taken over He runs Kinesis In Kinesis A lot of work got into it It's not quite factual enough For me I've had to correct a few things on it And fair play to Colin He listens and acts He had all the Stern Electronics games In with the Stern Modern games I was like no no no they're two different companies And you know So but he fixed it fair play to him. But, you know, look, I just think that... But maybe this brings something new, right? I mean, like, it's a bit like the Oscars, right? I don't know. As a kid, I used to watch the Oscars loads, but these days... It's just boring. It is, yeah. And the Oscar goes to some bozo you've never heard of. Okay, nice. Next. I'd like to say, I just... People who should be getting awards, you know, the Oscars should have, like, you know, I don't know, ambulance and firefighters getting awards not, you know, people that you know, okay, they've done a great performance but yeah, and you got paid 10 million for it, I'm sure it was good I just, I don't know, I just I mean, you know, look and actually the Oscars are actually voted in a way that is they were probably past my spell test for awards, which you know, and having won an Emmy when you get a proper award it is super meaningful I think like Kerry Hardy did one recently didn't he where he won a best pin in show and you could tell it meant a lot to him oh and I was there and I saw the game and he deserved to win it mate I mean but it was oh shit what was it it was getaway if that's what you mean the pin was Or did he He won Getaway but I think he came second with another one Oh before that Yeah wasn't it Lethal Weapon Sorry I didn't see the Getaway No it wasn't Lethal Weapon it was Getaway It was Last Action Hero Last Action Hero that's it Mate it was mint It was such a nice game It was on the scoreboard stand And it looks phenomenal Right I'm going to move us on So the other thing I wanted to cover And it's a bit Sorry, I'm kind of driving the bus a little bit here, mate. Nice. I wanted to cover Pinball Republic. Yes, please. So, Pinball Republic, for those that don't know, is a pinball club in Croydon. We've been around for six years or five. I can never remember. A while. We've got 60 games, and it's kind of seen as the UK epicentre of pinball. you know, apart from some people who are too far north, they can't see over the horizon. But for people, I think for most people, it's kind of stupid. It's fair to say it's the best place in the southeast. Yes. That is a good way of summing it up, Scott. Well done. And actually, there's a lot of places that are great. Tilt is awesome. Retroid is an awesome place. The guys at Pinball offices, they're a great place Medway's a great place You know, there's a lot of places Out there, and running a place is not Easy, so anyway, we've been We've known, during COVID The building we were in was acquired by a property developer And we've known that our Time was limited from that moment on Actually, we thought we probably had Another year, but For a variety of reasons The landlords pulled the plug and served us notice. Actually, he served us notice the weekend of Pinfest, which is a bit of a downer on the team. Yeah. But, you know. A bit of a gut punch. Yeah. But for me, actually, I was kind of glad of it because we've been kind of umming and ahhing about what to do and it kind of made things real. So we decided, right, we're not really going to do anything until after the UK Open, then we'll start looking. So I spent the last, I don't know, three months looking for a place. and oh my god it's freaking hard mate I've seen a couple of people off the forum, in the forum talking about business rates in the UK and I'm not pretty it's not even that, there's like a there's a real this scares me but there's a real artificial inflation on property and look I don't want to get into houses and stuff because business property is just a joke, basically. So, you've got empty units everywhere. I'm trying to find someone crowded. Honestly, I must have inquired about more than 60 places, right? And these are like 2,000 square foot places. And some have been empty for years. Years, right? Don't surprise me. And I'm like, well, we could fill this and you get some money. I was like, no, we can't. because we're a big PLC and we own all this property, and if we take the price down, the valuation of our company reduces. And what the asset, right. And I'm kind of like thinking, so how do your shareholders feel about the fact that you're artificially inflating stuff that you're never going to fill? How do they feel about that? Because to me, it feels like an Enron, you know, where they're saying everything, Google Enron, for those of you that are older than five. It feels, or younger than five, it feels like it just doesn't feel right to me. And, you know, I spoke to so many organizations, and there was a couple of ones that weren't suitable because, and I'm not saying everyone's bad, by the way, but there is a glut of property that isn't being rented because it's unaffordable. And then that also pushes the rates hard. and there's like a domino effect of the impact. We got close on our place near Croydon, but the rates, the cost of that just wasn't feasible. Our membership fee would be, you know, ridiculously high, and we just knew the members wouldn't, well, couldn't afford it. It's not like they wouldn't, if they had the money, they would probably pay us, but, you know, there's just an affordability risk. So we kept looking I'll be honest with you I was starting to get to a place where the club's done We're not going to We're not going to find anyone And actually Diane Who's one of the Kind of Folks that's part of the PBR and UK Open team She pinged our venue She was looking We were all looking trying to find a venue She pinged our venue And then the price for me was Quite interesting So it wasn't cheap but it wasn't ridiculous And then a few Phone calls We haven't closed the deal But I think we will We've been negotiating with them for a while It's 4000 square feet Which means We can fit in 150 pinballs Oh look you just solved your space problem I in buying mode again Yeah So, yeah, so we are, I mean, the building's got some work to do. The toilets are a mess. They need to be completely redone. It doesn't have a kitchen. So does that mean then you think you'll adjust membership pricing, stuff like that? Yeah, so, I mean, we haven't finalized on all of this, but what we have told the existing members is that the membership is going to go up to £50 a month. Now, that's a lot. We're kind of doubling it, actually, because our costs have doubled. They've gone up more than double. At the moment, I pay a decent amount of cash for storage. But that provides them with unlimited access, right? Yeah, unlimited access. Well, whenever we're open. Sure. Unlimited access, and you don't have to put 10p's in the game or pound coins. 10p's I wish When was the last time you ever put 10p in anything? I don't even think I've I can't even think of the answer to that But look it's actually our vending machine Takes 10p's But look It's 50 quid a month is a lot Especially this time of the year And it costs 11 But it's effectively 50 games of pinball And if you come to the club for a day you'll easily do more than 50 games of pinball. Yeah, I think, like, look, for people that, like, unlike you and I that can't afford to put down an insane amount of money on a game and have their own private arcade, if you want to call it that, I feel like the 50 quiz reasonable. I think, like, you know, given what you've got access to and the games are going to be looked after, you don't have to faff around like me and Neil do every time a bloody game decides to go, hey, I'm not going to work today, and you're sat underneath it going, could be playing it instead of fixing it. But you don't have to worry about that. So I can see the benefits, definitely. And I sympathize that it's a lot for these people. But I suppose what would happen realistically is if you were to double your membership, you could look at reducing those costs. Well, exactly. So we're being a bit cautious on the numbers. We'd rather have a little bit more money than not quite enough. As it turns out, personally, I'll be putting a lot of money in because rather than a piece of storage, I'd rather store my games in the club. Well, yeah, it's in a climate-controlled environment. Yeah, but also we've got enough space we can set them up. So 20-odd, actually more than that, games that I've got in storage, I'll be able to pull them out and I'll put that money rather than pay some... The game's meant to be played, Neil. Exactly. And rather than pay some bozo storage company, I can put the money into the club. We haven't finalised on guest pricing yet, but we'll probably announce that when we open. but effectively for next month we're putting the price up even though we haven't moved because the move's going to cost us money we've got to fix the toilets, we've got to build a kitchen we've got to put, there's not enough electrical sockets What's the idea with that by the way? Are you contracting in to get that or are you guys getting your hands dirty? Well we'll probably be getting our hands dirty Nice We did it in the last club or the current club most of the guys worked to kind of put floor tiles down and paint walls and hang stuff up. So, yeah, I mean, that's a great thing. We've got a good membership that will help us with that. So far, we announced it last night, we've only had one cancellation, which we knew we would get. You know, we expect more because not everyone... We're actually moving from Croydon to Orpington, So it's about 25 minutes drive from where we were And for me, it's further away but it's easier to get to So it's easier to access public transport wise? Yeah, public transport, less than 10 minutes walk from a good train station That goes into Victoria and London It's It's 15 minutes from the M25 Not even 15 minutes, more like 10 So if you're on the M25 Is it in the ULES zone? That's a good question, I think it's in the ULES zone Unfortunately If you If you come to the club Already via the M25 You know Your life will be easier Even if you're coming from where I am walking You go past Croydon You're a bit further to go But it's an easier drive than trying to Cut your way through To get to Pimble Republic In Croydon Is it on an industrial park? It is on an industrial park There's lots of space for parking There's not a million miles away From a couple of shopping business parks Deliveroo Deliver Nice So it's not We'd love to buy the Trocadero and fill it up with pinball machines. I think given what you've explained, though, and the fact that you've managed to add so much square footage and increase the available number of pins, I think at the end of the day, it can't be seen as a bad thing, right? I mean, the fact you're not closing, the fact that you're managing to keep going, that's commendable. Yeah, I mean, look, we're not fully out of the woods yet. If anyone wants to help us out with donations or We'll take it all basically I put a load of effort in A load of other people put loads of effort in We've got a great community there It's a good laugh on a Thursday night for the league I can't run the UK Open If there's no club there's no UK Open At least not in the format that I've been running it Personally though I've got 20 games here So if the club was to close I can still play pinball But as you know Scott Pinball is about playing with your buddies right? Yeah, pinball's meant to be played with old people. Exactly, so you know, I want to really see the club grow and get bigger and better. I think my guess, and it's just a guess is, we'll be reducing if everyone goes according to the plan that we've got this time next year we'll probably be putting the price down if not earlier. As soon as we think we can put it down, we will I think that's the thing, right, you've always made a point of this, you're not doing it to make money doing it because you want to share effectively the hobby. Yeah, and the whole club set up as a company limited by guarantee, we're not for profit, every penny we earn goes back in the place. Actually, we had big plans for the place that we're in. We're going to redo the tiles, we're going to put air conditioning in, but when we knew we were getting kicked out, we just thought, no, we're not going to do that. It would be crazy to spend the money. Yeah, someone else will benefit from that. Yeah, and I'm kind of hoping that in March, Well, we have to be out of the current venue by the end of February. So I'm hoping we'll probably be open by the end of March, if not earlier. Just depends on how it goes. But it still could not happen. There's still some. So I'm about 93% that this is cool. We've got a 7% gap to close. The next biggest part of that is, and this is part of the reason why we announced it and announce the price changes because, Luke, if 50 of our members cancel, we're done. It's got no legs. Yeah. So if you're watching this and you're a member, first of all, we really want you to stay. We know it's a big increase, but, you know, we think we've got something of value in the club. Put it this way, you're never going to get to play nine ball anywhere else in the world, especially in the UK. You're never going to get to play Any of Matt Zaccaria Games spooky You're never going to get to play them You're never going to get to play Gigi, the worst game ever But people like it You're never going to get to play 10 Stern premiums You know on location That's the rare thing, most locations will always have a pro The fact that you put premiums On locations, sounds pretty good Exactly, so And you're never going to get A weekly league That's like ours And it's not that other places don't run great Stuff, the office does a great league Kirkup at Tilt does a great league We've just got a bit Everyone knows this, we're the biggest place So naturally we get We're doing things that are a bit bigger It's not to say what other people are doing Isn't good, it's great But you know a venue that, the new venue that we'll have, you know, one of my frustrations about the current venue is there's nowhere to sit if you want to watch, or you're waiting to play a game, so you're at the end of the field, you're feet all day. This place, we've got loads of, even with 155 games, there's still space for seats. Might be worth branching out a little bit as well, and doing some arcade machines and stuff like that. I know this is the Pinball Republic, but even just in the break area. Yeah, we've got, we actually have a couple. Matt's got a couple. And we used them on Xbox and stuff. We've had a few in the past, but people just, they don't, I mean, they kind of play with it for a minute, but people can't play pinball, so you know, there's places to go if you want to play arcade. But yeah, right, I mean, you know, Matt's got this, had a couple of stand-up games that we had on, and you know, it's going to be fun. And then I just want to point out, I just want to get the dates right. Let me just check Because I'll get this wrong otherwise But we have a big tournament Could be the last chance you get to play our games If all doesn't go well Don't say things like that Neil We've already lost one venue this year Yeah I know And, you know, I think there's kind of more to come on that. So Fulda in Germany, you might have heard of this place, Bulls and Balls, it's closing down. And it was one of the big tournament venues for Europe. Is that a similar challenge they faced? Was it rising costs? No, actually, they were in a different position. They were basically The guy who owns the property Was made an offer he couldn't refuse Oh And where he is in Germany Is kind of a weird location But close to Frankfurt So property is a bit weird Price wise there So he's closed down He's talking about reopening in a couple of years time But I think This is a problem Two years from now the prices and costs of stuff Will be even harder Right So yeah on December 28th At 7.30pm It's a Thursday night We have the end of year Turkey level Versus Pinball Republic fry up It's a two day tournament We start on Thursday evening We go into Friday We have big finals And it's worth 250% TGP So it is the Outside of the UK Open It will be the biggest tournament this year And it's literally the last tournament Well almost the last tournament Greg has robot bash On the day after but it's one of the Last tournaments of the year And it's cheap So it's 5 quid for members and 10 quid for non-members Because at the time we just said Look we'll just cover our costs We're not really making any money out of this Because we Wanted to have a big event near the year end And You know we've got I think we've got about 50 odd people registered but there's still loads of space so come and join us and it's two games per round so it's a main and a classic anyway I've said enough about that but it'd be great to see you folks if you want to come down we're still open if you just don't want to play in the tournament but you want to play pinball and then I'm just looking at the time thinking oh my god it's 1 hour 40 minutes already we always love to talk yeah it's one of the like mod of the week there it was That's going to be my James Bond 60th Scott Next time we need to You've got cyberpunk in the background It looks amazing It looks amazing It's nearly done We should definitely spend a bit of time covering that Next time And See where you've got to on that And then I'm good And then if all goes well, I'll be an indisc in the new year. So watch out for that. I'll be streamed on Twitch on i.e. Pinball. And I'll probably do a bit of Pinball streaming over the festive season as well. Yeah, well, it'd be good to hear. Hopefully, as you say, you get a chance to play Texas Kings or Massacre or Looney Tunes or both. Yeah, either one, I'd be quite happy to play. But for the first time in a while, I'm excited about a spooky game. There we go Just shows you I mean the thing that's putting me off Is the usual Will it break And I just look at the Scooby Doo Folks We had a few issues Didn't we in the UK guys Where their decals came damaged Either in transit or beforehand I feel for all sides On that And you know it's such a weird one. It just looks like to me they didn't put enough padding down so when they strapped it it's the straps that chewed into the decal and then caused it to ripple. It's painful to see stuff like that I have to say, especially on such a beautiful looking game. Well yeah, the cabinet art is beautiful right and being on the coin door is the absolute worst place it could possibly be because it's going to be in everyone's line up the most visible part. And finally I just wanted to see I wanted to correct something Actually I've got two things to do The first thing I wanted to correct for A few episodes ago I said that The Brits were invited to American Pinball Actually it was Alan And the glorious guys of Ireland That got us that invite And we thank you hugely From the bottom of our hearts Brian Allen Alan now that's a wind up sorry mate I definitely mean Alan thank you for that and Luke I know I beat you at Godzilla and you know it's hard for you whenever I say something knowing that I beat you and I mean let me just rephrase it I hammered you and you know but we love you Alan mate you're a glorious guy It was great to see you In Texas And To eat steak and drink beer With you guys and I appreciate the invite To American Pinball which was awesome And I didn't talk about American Pinball because I'm not allowed to But they've got some cool stuff coming For sure And in the other The other thing Was the competition which I'd completely Forgotten about until a moment ago, so I'm going to randomly draw someone who's going to win the Galactic Tank Force. Yeah, the flyer and everything, right? You know what I'm worried about? I'm worried about where it is in my pinball shed, because it's such a mess. Let me just draw a name at random. It was episode... Oh, episode 6. Yes, so hold on. One second, let me just find it. Here we go. Ever the organized person you can tell me. I'm totally not. So, if you want to call a number between, hold on, one, two. No, that's not right. One. We'll call a number between one and five. One and five. Four. Four. Okay. Mark Gatward, you are the winner Of the Um Flyer Mark, if you're at Pinball Republic Next week, I'll give it to you then If you're not coming Then now's a good reason to come And we'll see you next week mate But thanks for that, thank you I've got some other stuff to give away But we'll figure that out next time Because we're violent I'm worried that the those of you that have got a stopwatch will be going nuts that we're one minute in. This is the number one complaint, Neil. We need to be more on one minute hour 30. Even though we've had some great gags in this week's show, this month's show, this millennium show. The end of the year show. The end of the year show, that's it. The end of the show show. Hopefully not the end of the show show, but yeah. Yeah, you know, I mean, it feels like the end of the show show. Look, awesome. This is episode seven. Scott and I have had a lot of fun doing this. Always appreciate feedback, good and bad. We appreciate awards as long as they're judged well. Yeah. And there's at least a 12-page essay that supports the awards. Neil, it goes without saying, we need to say one thing, right? No, it's not contentious. It's not contentious. I want you to tell me what your pinball machine of the year was. Oh, right, okay. Pinball machine of the year. Oh, that is a tricky, tricky, tricky question. I am going to go with... See, for me, Pulp Fiction hasn't shipped yet. Do you know what? If it hasn't been made, it's not being considered. That's the bottom line on that rule We'll have that as a rule That's out For me it's James Bond 60th Really? Yeah So above like Foo Fires Above Scooby Doo Above all those other elements Yeah it's a phenomenal game I mean a close second is Maybe not a close second Actually not a close second And this will freak a lot Elton John Elton John It would be I think Elton John's awesome. I just wish it wasn't made by crooks. I said non-contentious, Neil. They're not crooks. Of course they're not crooks. That was a joke. Chill out. Take a chill pill, Jack. Steve Ritchie will have your throat next time. Yeah, he will do. He will. Great. No, I think... No, I think... Elton John is JGP's best game By a mile And it has this thing on them called Radcals And they've been around forever By the way You wouldn't have thought right No but they have been around for a very very long time They're made by Mirko and his band Of amusing people Oh and actually that's one other bit of news My Quicksilver is away To have it's playfield done again Because the last Mirko playfield Fell apart So Oh dear Well more question then How's the theatre holding up? The theatre is holding up amazingly Actually we had a family event And it was the most played game I'm pleased Yeah it's playing beautifully mate Honestly it's a joy My wife finally saw it And she was like wow this looks awesome I was like yup So yeah If you need a pinball machine refurbished And you can't find anyone And no one else is available maybe you can hire the Rundle team no it's awesome and yeah I kind of I need to get in the queue for something else for you to do yeah absolutely, if you want to bring something my way I've got a Christmas period where I'm not doing anything yeah I've got a lot and by the way if the club doesn't have if we don't find the club getting back together I've got about 60 games I want to loan out free of charge. Because all you'll have to pay for is transport. But yeah, because I'm not going to sell them. Let's hope that that all pans free. I'll be honest with you. I am super confident about it. And actually, if I wasn't confident about it, we wouldn't have shared the news basically. But a big shout out to all the Pinball Republic folks that both work there and help us and the members who are just phenomenal folks. And, you know, and actually, you know, the UK pinball community as a whole, I think it's been a great year in the community. Pinfest was awesome. The UK Open was awesome. We had some really good events. I was at Piers and Salisbury's Special and Lit. It was fantastic. Tilt running events. Retroids is getting bigger. I think there's a huge amount to be positive about. Yeah. Including I'm banned from the forum, so you don't have to listen to me waffle anymore. I think It's now deleted members If you want a t-shirt With that on it They're currently being printed So I will have that T-shirt in the new year For those that want one Along with Pinball Forum Troll They are available At a store near you And Scott It's been great doing these with you It's been a lot of fun And And, you know, we've had a few bumps on the road in terms of my technical setup not working. Your internet connection, yeah. I've finally fixed it. Well, this has been the first episode, I must say, where there's been zero packet loss, no interruption, no dropping audio. Great. After the last one, I went freaking mental. And as it turns out, I had a dodgy switch. There was one. So I've got like all these I've got this, a cable that goes from the shed A cable that goes from my garage A cable that goes from my kitchen A cable that goes upstairs And they all meet on this one switch And the port coming out of the switch Then goes into the house In the house, everyone's fine Outside the house or upstairs It's a shit show and I was like what the hell And then just by The reason I hadn't fixed it was because I just didn't spend any time on it But after the last time it just drove me nuts Anyway, it's now fixed And working And actually helpful For those of you that Are into network stuff, labelling things Is always a must do But if you can find a label gun Which I can never find So yeah, look To finish off Your game of the year, Scott My game of the year It is close. I'd say if I was a fan of Elton John, because I'm not really, the theme doesn't do much for me. I think it's a music show, a music-like show in a box, right? It's probably, as you say, their best game. The flow looks amazing. I just can't connect with the music. It's too much of a gap for me. So that's the only reason. I am always a stickler for themes. So that aside, I think it's got to be Scooby-Doo for me. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea but I think I liked it when I played it I enjoyed it I would have one I think I would have one so I will keep an eye out, eventually somebody I imagine will get bored of it I'm selling one for four grand less than they paid for it exactly I mean this is the other thing right honestly there are some people that are delusional about the value of their game on the forum right now and let me tell you If people are offering you close to the price You know it's 500 quid You should take it Because when Jaws arrives And the world is flooded With 5 million Godzillas And you know In March When the next Sparrowing game comes out If it's Pokemon You think it'll be that soon? So they'll do the Jaws now? It'll be announced in March And you'll be able to play it in April That is the standard Starn cycle or it was before they went To two games And then you know All these Elton Johns you know people Have seen Elton John they've played it They're starting to play it that's going to sell More than people think I believe So if You're sitting on like a you know A three year old premium or LE And you think it's worth ten grand Probably not I'm afraid I wish it was being branded by them. Well, it's the thing, right? I think we've gone a bit long, but I'll wrap up quickly on this. I think you're right. LEs, I used to think they would hold their value, but even LEs don't feel that safe anymore. They've gone and said, hey, here's another one, and we're just going to call this the LE Plus or the Super LE or the whatever, 40th edition. I don't know. I think the safest money is buying a Pro these days. Probably less likely to lose the most money on it. If you don't want to lose money, that is the way to go. I did Send a note to the Stern CEO Not Gary the new guy And said to me I'm a guy that buys LEs And right now I'm thinking why should I bother And I said to him Convince me why I should keep buying LEs He hasn't responded I didn't expect a response but I will catch up With him in the new year and have a chat With him but So we've got Scooby-Doo and James Bond Two icons of our youth I think so yeah They'll continue being reinvented Just like me and Scott And All that remains to say is We wish everyone an amazing and merry Christmas Yeah and have a good new year And a happy Christmas Yeah and Luke enjoy Pinball of the Year If you're bored You know You're near the Woking area Ping me and if I'm around You can come and play, anyone who's in the area Have a game of Venom If you're really bored, come to Pinball Republic When we're open, we're actually closed Until the Tonight's our last open night Until the 28th, when we've got that event But if you've got location, Pinball Local Go visit them during this holiday season Because they could do with the money Stick some quids in it Go to Tilt, Kirk's open Throughout out, go to Retroids, they've just got a new venue that looks absolutely amazing and give them some cash because they could do it for right now and all that remains to say is adios, we will see you in the new year, probably towards the end of January when I've sobered up from New Year and like a true Scott actually I don't drink a lot, there's a lot of bollocks but no, I am No, yeah It's a crazy time The festive season Make sure you find some time to enjoy it Because it can always be about rushing around And going crazy And then it's over and you think, quickie, is it over already? So find some time, I'm going to be playing a bit of Fortnite, a bit of pinball And Playing with hopefully Some new toys that Santa's going to bring me Well good Thanks everyone And vote for us, please.

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 887e1676-1ea6-4d9a-bf92-10daf02d163c*