# Episode 4: Pinball Through My Wife's Eyes

**Source:** The Flipside Pinball Podcast  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2024-07-07  
**Duration:** 41m 23s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** 7ab0719b-6453-494c-846d-98e7b46ad74a

---

## Analysis

Retro Ralph interviews his wife Kim about her perspective on pinball and arcade gaming. Kim shares her initial skepticism about pinball, her surprising affinity for it over traditional arcade games, her natural talent and quick reflexes when playing, and her observations about the craftsmanship and artistry in pinball machine design. The couple discusses their current collection (Godzilla, Venom, Jaws, John Wick), speculates about potential future machines (Snoop Dogg/Dr. Dre hip-hop themed, Barbie), and touches on concerns about John Wick's market performance and the broader market slowdown.

### Key Claims

- [MEDIUM] John Wick pinball is not selling well despite being designed by Elliot Eisman, a mechanical engineer at Stern making his first game — _Retro Ralph discussing John Wick's market performance and speculating that nostalgia-driven themes sell better than newer IP_
- [HIGH] Kim scored 196 million on Godzilla on approximately her 10th play of the game — _Retro Ralph providing Kim's score and play history_
- [HIGH] Kim beat Retro Ralph on Venom despite him being an experienced player on that machine — _Direct conversation between hosts about competitive gameplay experience_
- [HIGH] Stern Pinball and Jersey Jack Pinball are the two largest pinball manufacturers driving the hobby forward — _Retro Ralph identifying these as 'the two largest' manufacturers_
- [HIGH] No hip-hop or R&B pinball machines currently exist; George Gomez mentioned this at Stern during a tour — _Retro Ralph recounting a conversation with George Gomez at Stern facility tour_
- [MEDIUM] The pinball market in general is currently down — _Retro Ralph commenting on current market conditions when discussing John Wick's performance_
- [HIGH] Retro Ralph traded away his James Bond pinball machine to acquire Jaws, despite loving James Bond — _Kim and Retro Ralph discussing his four-machine limit and recent swap_
- [MEDIUM] Kim has naturally faster reflexes than Retro Ralph and believes women generally have faster response times than men in pinball — _Retro Ralph's observation about Kim's play and speculation on gender differences_

### Notable Quotes

> "I was like, well, we were having fun until you started beating me."
> — **Retro Ralph**, ~45:00
> _Reveals his competitive nature in pinball despite claiming to be non-competitive in life; humorous moment showing he became bothered when Kim outscored him on Venom_

> "I love Jaws. I love Jaws for so many reasons. I mean, first of all, it's just so much fun, and the art is incredible... it brings you back."
> — **Kim**, ~50:00
> _Shows Kim's appreciation for nostalgia-driven themes and art quality as motivators for engagement with pinball_

> "When you're focused on something you're laser focused on it... There's a lot of women players that are really good because their response time is like so fast."
> — **Retro Ralph**, ~35:00
> _Articulates his theory about why Kim engages with pinball more than arcade games and makes observation about women's competitive advantage in the sport_

> "I think there's a lot of fun things you could do with it, like artwork-wise... Martha Stewart multi-ball."
> — **Kim**, ~65:00
> _Demonstrates Kim's creative thinking about game design and suggests unexpected IP pairings for hypothetical machines_

> "It would have to be all pink. I mean, it would be cool. It would be so cool."
> — **Kim**, ~75:00
> _Kim's enthusiasm for a hypothetical Barbie pinball machine, though she acknowledges the demographic mismatch with typical pinball buyers_

> "These companies... the ones that are continuing to propel the hobby forward... it just makes me sad because these companies aren't releasing... amazing titles that are blowing it out of the water right now."
> — **Retro Ralph**, ~55:00
> _Expresses concern about the quality and market reception of recent releases from major manufacturers despite their importance to the industry_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Retro Ralph | person | Host of The Flipside Pinball Podcast; arcade and pinball collector/enthusiast with home game room; married to Kim; intermediate-to-advanced pinball player |
| Kim | person | Retro Ralph's wife; spin instructor; volunteer at pig rescue; casual pinball player with natural talent and quick reflexes; initially skeptical of pinball but now enjoys it more than arcade games |
| George Gomez | person | Stern Pinball executive/designer; hosted Retro Ralph on facility tour; discussed licensing and gap in hip-hop/R&B themed machines |
| Elliot Eisman | person | Mechanical engineer at Stern Pinball; first pinball game designer role; designed John Wick; worked on mechanical features like the Jaws shark |
| Stern Pinball | company | Major pinball manufacturer; located in Chicago; one of the two largest manufacturers driving the hobby forward; produces regular content including making-of trailers |
| Jersey Jack Pinball | company | One of the two largest pinball manufacturers; Kim has never played one of their games; produces Elton John machine |
| Godzilla | game | Pinball machine in Retro Ralph's collection; features comic book-style artwork similar to Venom; Kim scored 196 million; Retro Ralph considers it a staple he would never sell |
| Venom | game | Pinball machine in Retro Ralph's collection; Kim beat Retro Ralph on this machine; uses similar comic book-style artwork to Godzilla |
| Jaws | game | Stern Pinball machine; recently acquired by Retro Ralph (traded away James Bond for it); Kim loves it for nostalgia and artwork; features realistic lighting and blood effects; sold well |
| John Wick | game | Stern Pinball machine; designed by Elliot Eisman; beautiful aesthetics but very difficult gameplay; in Retro Ralph's collection; rumored to be selling poorly; challenging even for intermediate players |
| James Bond | game | Former pinball machine in Retro Ralph's collection; traded away to acquire Jaws; Retro Ralph loves it and expects to buy another copy someday |
| Elton John | game | Jersey Jack Pinball machine; Retro Ralph thinks Kim would enjoy it based on colorful artwork and music; neither host has played it |
| Player One Arcade | venue | Arcade venue that Kim and Retro Ralph have visited multiple times to play pinball |
| The Flipside Pinball Podcast | organization | Podcast hosted by Retro Ralph; Episode 4 features his wife Kim discussing pinball and arcade gaming perspectives |
| The Jaws movie | product | Film that Kim grew up with; Jaws pinball machine brings back nostalgia for her; terrified her as a child |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Perspective of non-players/casual players on pinball, Pinball machine aesthetics and artwork appreciation, Gameplay experience and learning rules
- **Secondary:** Current pinball market conditions and sales trends, John Wick machine market performance, Gender differences in pinball performance and reflexes, Potential future pinball themes (hip-hop, Barbie)
- **Mentioned:** Pinball machine customization and mods

### Sentiment

**Positive** (0.72) — Overall positive and warm tone celebrating pinball, the hobby, and Kim's engagement with it. Some concern expressed about market slowdown and John Wick's performance. Lighthearted and humorous throughout.

### Signals

- **[market_signal]** Retro Ralph expresses that the pinball market in general is currently down, with major manufacturers not releasing 'amazing titles that are blowing it out of the water' (confidence: medium) — So we'll see what happens next... the market in general seems to be down
- **[product_concern]** John Wick pinball is reportedly not selling well despite strong design and artistry; speculation that newer IP doesn't resonate as well as nostalgia-driven themes (confidence: medium) — the reality or the rumor is that it's not a selling well for whatever reason, John Wick... maybe nostalgia is the real thing that sells pinball machines
- **[sentiment_shift]** Kim's discovery of pinball's craftsmanship depth (mechanics, art, music, designers) increased her appreciation and engagement with machines, contrasting with her indifference to arcade games (confidence: high) — Kim: I didn't realize like how much went into it... I think it's cool that you can tell... the difference in the artists
- **[collector_signal]** Retro Ralph maintains a four-machine limit in his home collection and recently made a strategic swap (James Bond for Jaws), indicating space constraints and careful curation (confidence: high) — I feel like I could only fit... the room looks nice with four... I don't know which one would be that one
- **[design_philosophy]** Discussion suggests that nostalgia-driven themes (Jaws, Godzilla) outsell newer/modern IP (John Wick) in pinball, potentially due to demographic and disposable income alignment (confidence: medium) — maybe nostalgia is the real thing that sells pinball machines... maybe John Wick is too new... people that do have nostalgia for John Wick would be people that are younger that don't have the money
- **[gameplay_signal]** John Wick is identified as too difficult for new players despite beautiful design; Jaws and Godzilla recommended as better entry points because they offer immediate fun (confidence: high) — John Wick is really hard and it might not appeal to someone that's a brand new player... if you bought jaws or godzilla you'd be like oh my gosh this is the most fun ever
- **[design_innovation]** Discussion with George Gomez at Stern revealed lack of hip-hop or R&B themed pinball machines, representing an unexplored IP opportunity in the market (confidence: high) — George Gomez... mentioned someone in the room mentioned hey when are you going to do like a non-rock band pinball machine because there really hasn't been like a hip-hop pinball machine
- **[rumor_hype]** Community speculation about potential future machines: Snoop Dogg/Dr. Dre hip-hop themed machine and Barbie pinball machine (pink, with custom artwork) (confidence: low) — I want Snoop Dogg... it would have to be Snoop Dogg and Dr. Dre... all pink... Stern, you can make a couple of Barbies
- **[community_signal]** Pinball community celebrates game designers, software creators, musicians, and mechanics as 'rock stars'; these individuals are recognizable figures at major events like Pinball Expo (confidence: high) — you can get to meet them that's so cool they're almost like rock stars... these people are celebrated like when a game comes out you know who the designer is
- **[restoration_signal]** Retro Ralph regularly performs modifications and customization work on his pinball machines; Kim observes this includes modding projects and cosmetic improvements (confidence: medium) — i've seen the things that you do... upgrade mod things... it does make it look cooler... awful [sound during modding]

---

## Transcript

 Hey guys, welcome back to the flip side your pinball podcast by your host retro Ralph today. I have a special guest in the house. I actually have my wife, Kim. And I thought it'd be fun to get her perspective on pinball because she just sees this crazy husband of hers with all these hobbies, arcade, and now pinball, and I think she's probably like, what the heck is this guy doing? But she signed up for it in the vows she actually said when we got married that she understood. So we'll see if she still understands after how many years of marriage? we're going on four oh yeah four years okay he's like longer all right four years of being married so okay i'm here with kim but not everyone knows who you are only people that watch retro ralph probably know who you are so we have some newer people that probably don't know so why don't you give an intro to like who kim is and what things that you're into and hobbies and interests that you have oh great put me on the spot yeah all right well i'm classic kimmy which was what i started off as and um yeah so basically i know nothing about arcades no what are you into though you have i'm into fitness spinning anything to make me sweat you know that okay but you're a spin instructor right yes you didn't want to talk about that you don't want to no we can talk about that i didn't think that's what okay well kim's a spin instructor so she's she's not really wanting to go deep into uh stuff about her so but she is passionate about fitness and animals and animal yeah and she's a big one for those of you that uh don't know kim volunteers at a at a pig rescue that's right well we volunteer at a pig rescue it's so much fun how much fun do we really have i mean pigs are really cool i do i you know my my kim does not eat bacon but i still do even though I go there and I pet the pigs and all that, and I take care of them. You feel bad about it. I do feel a little guilty about it if I do have a piece of bacon. All right. So I wanted to get into like the other day we were sitting on the couch and we were watching the Jaws. It was like the making of Jaws, the pinball machine. And you started asking me all of these questions, and I thought that was really interesting. We almost had a podcast episode on the couch while we were watching it. It would have been perfect if we had microphones. I know because you were asking me all these great questions, but I guess I want to start from like you've seen maybe really the whole time we've known each other. You've known I was really into arcade games and you've seen you've seen so many games come and go, probably a ridiculous amount. I mean, isn't it crazy how many times I'm saying a truck's pulling up and they're dropping something off or I'm sending something out. Right. Exactly. But it was only like three years ago or so that I started to get into pinball and my first machine showed up. So like what's been your like outside looking in, like what did you think when I got it with pinball? Yeah, I was like, oh, great. No, no. I mean, honestly, I didn't really think too much about it because I guess pinball and arcade to me are kind of like in the same spectrum of things. Sorry, don't get mad at me. I just knew that pinball was a little more expensive. And these machines were like way more detailed than in my opinion. Yeah. So, yeah, I don't know. I was just like, OK, here we go. Another another thing to add to the list. But what does it seem like? Because I think that people watch the channel. They don't really understand how much it's really taken over. So, like, would you say what's that been like? Because, I mean, you've seen that room, which is my game room in the house. Like, that's really changed a lot. It's crazy how much I mean, it's pretty much all pinball now, which is just crazy because I feel like you're always like going in and out of the house with like which which arcade goes in here now but now I think it looks really good like it all just looks really clean so you thought it looked bad with the arcade games in it I'm not because arcade games are all different shapes and sizes and and I don't know I feel like it's more you know me like I'm so anal about like things matching up so to have like four pinball machines in a row that look the same that was cool it looks nice yeah and they're really cool i mean like the detail of like the artwork is like amazing see then that was interesting because when we were watching the jaws trailer you started saying you're like wow you started like asking about well like who makes this thing because they were talking about the shark and how it comes out of the water and then and then you you started asking me naturally like well who does the who does the mechanical i don't know if you asked it exactly like this but you were like well who does that and who does the artwork and who does the music and who does the so I think isn't that kind of I mean that you you seem to really appreciate that because you're like wow a lot goes into this and someone that doesn't you're not really into it right or no I mean I think it's cool and I like playing when we do play but I didn't realize like how much went into it but what I thought was really cool is like you can tell I can kind of tell as someone who doesn't play a lot the difference in the artists like obviously like i can see jaws and godzilla not godzilla no godzilla would be the same artist as venom okay so what's the other one wait we have godzilla yeah okay yeah but godzilla and venom are both like very like um comic book ish style so you feel like those look the same because you said that yeah you were getting confused for a minute but they said that like yeah i mean you said oh wow these look the same like you could almost tell like that has to be the same guy that did it right but um but hey i want to say though you act like you're someone that doesn't play but you do you do play with me sometimes and the other night when kim played with me that she has not played godzilla a lot i'd have to go to insider connected to see how many times she has played it but her score was 196 million on godzilla and that was pretty good yeah and didn't you get really excited do you remember how excited you got so keep in mind this kim is not someone that like i don't play with her very often pinball right but when i i taught you like pretty quickly how to like bash the building and then when the and then lock your balls and you got super excited when the building came down like you were i saw it on your face like you i was watching you from the side that look on your face that you were you were amazed by like you were excited first because you achieved something and you were like it was cool to see that it was awesome and the think I went to that pinball arcade with you a couple times the one that you go to do player one arcade yeah and we've had a blast but for me when I play I'm just kind of whacking the ball around and trying to hit things and seeing the score go up but now that we have them at home and you're getting really into it and you're actually like teaching me that there's like ways rules and and the way to actually play it, it's even more fun because it makes sense. You know, like I'm not just like out there whacking the ball. So what would make you, because I don't, I couldn't really ever get you to really play arcade games for any period of time, like normal arcade games. So what do you think is the reason why you're more like inclined to play pinball with me than arcade games? Because you really never did. Like you, it was very, very, like I could tell you weren't that interested in the arcade stuff. I think I just like with pinball, like being focused on something. And I love all the lights and like all the artwork and like all like the fun things and like the noise and stuff is actually really fun, the music. But I don't know. I think it just holds my attention way more to focus on like, okay, like I'm going to try to get this ball up here or like hit that and like do this. You know, like with arcade games, I don't know. I think it's just something that maybe you grow up on. Like that would make it fun. like for me sega is fun playing sonic sonic which we've done before yeah but i don't i just i like pinball way more than i do the arcade oh wow sorry all the arcade people are like no no don't worry i still love my galagala you like what you like yeah she called for those that don't know she kim called galaga galagala but um yeah i mean so so you clearly like pinball more yeah um it's hard yeah it is all right it's a lot harder it's a lot harder once you actually know the rules too and like what you know so i think that's that's been like super cool like just like learning like the different ways to do things i'm still gonna hold strong how i believe in not shaking the machine though yeah she thinks nudging is cheating but that's not cheating it's part of the game okay it's probably because hey all right i was going to talk about this earlier but i didn't I don't think I've ever even told you this. So there's this mechanical thing inside a pinball machine, right? I'm explaining to you. By the way, you guys can't see me, but I'm explaining with my fingers. There's a hole, right? This is going to look dirty, but there's a hole. If only there was a camera. No, and there's this thing in the middle of the hole. It's called the tilt bob, right? Okay. And this thing, when you shake the machine, this thing hits the metal ring. If it hits the metal ring, it gives you a warning. You can only do it three times. So you're telling me that the designers of pinball, these games, actually designed it to get shaken like that. Yes, but the thing is, the tilt thing, the little, the bob inside, it only allows you to tilt it, or sorry, it only allows you to nudge it so much. And then it, I think you've seen this happen to me. The whole game turns dark, and you lose that ball. You're done. Yeah. So it's like, so you can't, so it is part of the game, but you have to be very careful how much you shake it, because if you shake it too much, yeah. And then depending on how that thing is set, I'm doing this with my finger in between a hole. But when you push the thing further up, it makes it, I guess, tighter. So like if you shake it a little bit, it'll go off like really, really quick. OK. But also there like I am not an expert at this but there like all these methods of like how you shake it and how you push it and nudge it where you can kind of like it gets into like crazy physics But I think that you kind of like pinball for a different reason And this is kind of like weird because I might I might get in trouble I don't mean it in any kind of like offensive way, but I think people that tend to have like focus, like you, like a little bit of OCD, but you, yeah, you have it a little bit, but you are also, when you are focused on something, you're laser focused on it. And I think it's interesting because you really do pay attention. Your reaction time is probably even better than mine to begin with anyway and always has been. Because even when you played pinball, the first time you and I went out, we played Tales of the Arabian Nights, which you said, oh, my gosh, this is my favorite one. I love that one. Because that's the genie and the thing. But I was like, man, how – like you weren't – you're like – I don't know. I have quick reflexes. Yeah, but you're better now because I feel like you're more controlled now. But even with you just not knowing what you were doing, your reflexes are really fast. Like you respond. And I find that like there's a lot of women players that are really good because their response time is like so fast. I don't know why it's so much faster than a man's response time, but it is like, yeah. So if we're going to ever have like a crisis, I hope you're around to, I don't know, sometimes in a crisis mode, I'm a little bit more. No? No? It depends on what the crisis is. If it's a bug. If it's a bug, I think, yeah, I don't know. No, that's right. That's true. I shouldn't have said that. You're actually way better because you can look at – so Kim used to work in an urgent care, and she'd come home and be like, oh, my gosh. I got to take this gross thing out of someone's ear, and I'm like, that's disgusting. I wouldn't even want to do that. So Kim likes gross things. So, yeah, you'd probably be a lot better with blood and all that stuff. But you know what the other interesting thing with pinball is and with me is I'm the, as you know, the least competitive person. Yes, that's true. And I feel like when I'm playing pinball, I become very competitive all of a sudden. You do. And I actually got kind of bummed out. So I'll be honest. Like I gave her high fives for Godzilla, her high score. Like it was great. 196 million is a really good score to me for someone that's only played the game like 10 times probably. Like it took me a lot longer to get a score like that. So that was pretty awesome. But, but when we went on Venom, I was trying to show her on Venom, like how to get to null. So I wasn't focused on, I was really just focused on progressing through the, the, the game to just get to null. And I was like having a bad game and everything kept draining. She like totally kicked my butt in a game that I play a lot. So it was like, I was kind of, maybe I wasn't as excited. Like I, cause she was like, I thought we were having fun. And I'm like, well, we were having fun until you started beating me. the truth comes out yeah so i was kind of like what the heck is this i was like who is this lady i will also say that i think it was the first time i played jaws you're like go ahead play under my name it's fine and i got like a totally good score and i wish i would have put in my little i don't know that that's how it went i think you just forgot to log in and so you know okay whatever you did you got a good score on do you like jaws do you feel like that's a fun one I love Jaws. I love Jaws for so many reasons. I mean, first of all, it's just so much fun, and the art is incredible. And there are people that say that it doesn't have a lot of art on the plate. I think its art is good. It's like sometimes less is more. I think it looks great. But the other thing is, for me, it brings me back. I mean, I was talking to you about it yesterday. I was telling my sister, you know, like we grew up on Jaws, and that was the most terrifying movie at my little young age. and so hearing like the music and like the actual scenes from the movie it's just like it brings you back and like that's so fun and then you're also playing this this game but didn't you like i know you were saying you liked um how realistic it was like when you like the the lighting where the blood gets into the light yeah that's so cool i love stuff like that yeah it is cool that i think what's funny is i the people don't know they're even listening to this that i got rid of james Bond for Jaws. And you remember how much I said I love James Bond? I know, I never thought. And I do love it. I actually think that's one I'll probably regret and buy again at some point, but I can only have like four in the house. I don't feel like I could, we haven't really talked about this, but I feel like I could only fit, I mean, the room looks nice with four. It looks nice right now, I prefer. Prefer what? If we didn't get a fifth. Oh, okay. I'm finding out about this information live so all right note taken well i i always thought that i'd have one that kind of floats in and out and but now i love them i love all the ones i have so now i don't know which one would be that one because i'm not i would never get rid of godzilla i love godzilla that's like the staple okay so wait it's godzilla venom yeah jaws oh john wick and john wick john wick is beautiful that's like it looks cool i mean that i love that game just for the look of it that's why i don't think you love it you don't love it as much playing it you just think it looks nice yeah because it's a lot harder it's really hard yeah i feel like that's a game that's a problem is that game that game is it i it's got a lot of like i tell you how like people in the pinball the more and more the podcaster side of it they like dog on stuff hard when it comes out And a lot of times they do it before they've even played the game. I think John Wick, if someone told me like, hey, I want to get my first pinball machine, I couldn't recommend that one because I struggle with it. I'm like on this progression where I consider myself like an intermediate player. Maybe a little bit better than intermediate, but kind of somewhere in there. And I struggle with that game, but it's also making me a better player. but I don't think if you were brand new, like if that was the first one you played, you might, you might think it looks pretty, but I don't know that you would walk away being like, oh my gosh, I want to play it again. Yeah. Where I, if I put you on Jaws or Godzilla, you'd be like instantly having fun, I think. Totally. Yeah. So that's the struggle with that is that these companies, right, they make these expensive games and it's like, they have a conundrum because it's who do you make the game for? Cause John Wick is really hard and it might not appeal to someone that's a brand new player right so it's like with that person getting into the hobby buy that machine as their first machine they might actually have a they might be disappointed because it is so hard where if you bought jaws or godzilla you'd be like oh my gosh this is the most fun ever like no matter even if you're not good right yeah so anyway so i just i thought it would be fun to have you on and just talk about like the things that you that how you've seen this progress so far and i thought the one thing that you when we were watching the so guys we were i was talking about this earlier if you did if you missed it but we were talking about we were sitting on the couch and i was watching the jaws making of the jaws trailer that stern put out and it was kind of a cool conversation because because kim was like i was kind of talking to you about how like all these people in pinball are kind of celebrated like when a game comes out you know who the designer is you know who did the software you know who did the music and they they celebrate all that stuff and one of the things i think we got as far as talking about like i told you how at pinball expo these people are all just walking around and you can most of them because stern is right there in chicago and you can get to meet them that's so cool they're almost like rock stars really as they should be i mean honestly i think that's like the coolest part when we were talking about like that it was like a documentary that we were watching no it was just stern put out a hey this is the making of the game yeah which is so cool i mean and they do that with all their games what an awesome job to have you know like i just can't imagine like being into like you know mechanics like mechanical stuff like that and like movies and and artwork and like all that stuff and like to be able to build something and like from like really your mind and to see it like come to life come to life is so freaking cool like i would love to meet the people that made jaws and godzilla and like i'm just like so impressed like if you think about every little detail like of these games like it's incredible like where how do they even think of these things i mean i know and they they and one thing you said to me that stuck with me is i told you we've started talking about it and i said yeah these are the people that make the games and then we talked about i told you how the guy that made john wick his name's elliot eisman so the guy that made john wick he was a mechanical engineer at stern he had never made a game that was the first game that he made but he was used to making like the jaws coming out of the water or like the mechanical things. That's what he worked on. So isn't it cool though? Like this guy worked at Stern for, I think, 10 years. And now he's like part of a team that builds games now. And look what his first game was. I mean, how freaking awesome is that? The unfortunate thing about it is like, that this is the thing that, I don't know. I don't know if I believe it or not, but the reality or the rumor is that it's not a selling. It's not selling well for whatever reason, John Wick. I don't really get that. It might be just that maybe nostalgia is the real thing that sells pinball machines, and maybe the themes need to be ones that people are nostalgic for, and maybe John Wick is too new. You know what I mean? And the people that do have nostalgia for John Wick would be people that are younger that don't have the money to buy a pinball machine, you know what I mean? Or don't have that disposable income to buy that. No, for sure. so i don't know it makes me kind of sad though in a way because i don't know like these games there's not that many companies that may i mean there are a lot of companies that make them but the big ones that we haven't you and i have never personally talked about this but the ones that are the largest ones or the two largest are stern pinball and this other company jersey jack pinball which you've never i don't even think you've ever heard you know and i don't even think you've ever played one of their games i'd like you to play elton john though because it's so colorful and i think you'd like it and the music yeah and you and the music so i think you'd really dig that one but um but yeah it makes me sad because like these companies i know people are going to give me crap for this but these companies are are like the ones that are continuing to propel the hobby forward and of course they not every game they come out with isn going to be uh an uber success but right now the the market in general seems to be down So it just unfortunate that this game comes out and it wasn as well received because I don know the community like, overall, these companies aren't releasing, like, these amazing titles that are blowing it out of the water right now. Jaws kind of did, though. Jaws was really good. So we'll see what happens next. But I was going to tell – we were talking about this. I was just going to say we should talk about what pinball machines we would want. Yeah. Remember, you brought one up the other day. What was the one that you said? I want Snoop Dogg. You want Snoop Dogg? But we agreed that it would have to be Snoop Dogg and Dr. Dre, though. Both of them. It would be cool. Like a mashup. Snoop Dogg, Dr. Dre, Eminem. But you think that would be fun, right? I think that would be awesome. Because of the music? Yeah. I think there's a lot of fun things you could do with it, like artwork-wise. we talked about having Martha Stewart like pop in somewhere you know like I just think it'd be fun but the Martha Stewart multi-ball like oh no we talked about her being in like a cage like a jail cell or something I don't know if they would go for something like that but you never know it could be a mod but imagine oh she already knows see she knows what those are she's watched me what do you think about me doing that because your dad so so my father-in-law Kim's dad was into um like model trains was it model trains yeah and he used to decorate all that stuff right yep i mean but that was like way before my time but no i think it's cool i mean i get it like why you would do some of these like upgrade mod things you know like and i i've seen the things that you do and like a lot of the times it does make it look cooler when you're in the other room what does it sound like when i'm modding a pinball machine awful well it's a lot of cursing dropping metal you saved me one time do you remember i there was something that it was a little tiny washer yes that fell inside i think godzilla and i was so pissed and you kept being like you're really good though when i'm pissed off because you're usually like hey just walk away from it for right now you like you'll you'll remember you because like i'll get frustrated remember when you get obsessed with something you can't stop i'm like okay just take a breather walk away from it but you know what you did that was really like i felt stupid but you were so right yeah so i was working on james bond and i couldn't get the play field down and you're like there's probably something in the way i was like no there's not i didn't touch any wires or anything like there's no way and you're like you didn't touch wires like yet you had to touch wires i was like no i didn't no i didn't and then sure enough like a wire had dropped down and got in the way and it was just in the way enough but it it took i think you no you didn't come over but you did come over and look at it for a second and you you like convinced me that i needed to walk away from And when I came back, all I could see is this wire dangling down in the back box that made it so I couldn't put it in. And it's funny how quiet he got. And I was like, oh, did you fix it? He's like, yeah. I'm like, well, how did you fix it? I told you. I admitted that the wire got in the way. Sometimes I can help. Okay, so let's just for one second. We'll close off on the topic of what pinball machines. because you got me thinking, like you could totally do like a car with hydraulics that bounced as like a toy for your Dr. Dre M&M. Like that would be cool, right? You'd have like the car. Well, it was interesting because when we were at Stern, and I've never shared this story with anybody listening to the podcast, but when we were at Stern, for those of you who don't know, I went on this Stern tour. If you go to Retro Ralph, you can watch the video about the tour. But George Gomez took us in a room, talking to us about licensing and stuff. and he mentioned someone in the room mentioned hey when are you going to do like a non-rock band pinball machine because there really hasn't been like a hip-hop pinball machine or an r&b pinball machine and so um that got me thinking and then when you and i were on the couch i was like oh my gosh how it would have to be a slam dunk to do like a death row i guess it would be like or some kind of like those artists in a pinball machine that seems to be a no-brainer yeah like i keep thinking of the super bowl that one year where they had snoop dogg dr dre i had all of that was two years ago yeah we were freaking out obliged i mean it was that like if you could put that performance into a pinball machine somehow i think it'd be so sick like all of a sudden wasn't wasn't 50 cent like upside down singing wasn't he hanging from something am i wrong i remember that you don't remember that he was like hanging all right whoever's watching this if you know what i'm talking about but but do you remember like we were all stoked because that was like our childhood yeah we were like jamming out like i thought that was the best i remember your parents they have the friend over their friend over and everyone was like i don't understand this this is ridiculous what's going on here what are they saying they would why do their pants like that it was like all but then my sister's texting like this is awesome i know your sister was like texting everyone you gotta turn this um by the way i really hope it's been so hot here i just you and i on sundays are we even though we're recording this right now on a sunday it's like our sundays are not the same without football we need football back in our lives yeah we do but we have a game we're going to the game on august i think it's 11th the pre-season game which it's going to be still like 110 degrees here that's gonna be fun i know i know all right so one other if you could do one other pinball machine i know it i know a pinball machine you would like if they made it i'm gonna just say one what if they made a bar what if they made a barbie pinball machine oh you know i would make you buy that no you would you would a thousand percent i mean i would have to i don't care if you ever played it it would be for me like that yes how i mean i don't think they ever would i don't No, they would sell. I think they would sell a lot of Barbie pinball machines. I really do. Really? You don't think they would? Well, I mean. I mean, the demographic is not Barbie. Right, that's what I'm saying. The demographic. But I think it would be awesome. I mean, they could make it so cool. But I mean, maybe they could do like a limited edition, like just a couple. Just a couple? It's like two? One for you and someone else? One for me. Okay, just a couple. All right, Stern, you can make a couple of Barbies. It has to be all pink. I mean, it would be cool. It would be so cool. Artwork could be amazing. I mean, you could do some cool things. Actually, we were – I think we're going to miss out on it, but just here in Phoenix, they just had the Barbie exhibit at the museum. And it looked really cool because they had her pink car, which is – The Corvette. Was it a Corvette? Yeah, it is. It's a Corvette. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know a lot about Barbie. I mean, I had a sister, but my sister was older. So, I mean, I know if she did have Barbies around, it was probably like once she was done playing with them and I just – they were still like around. But I don't – yeah. You're probably lighting them on fire or something. I was probably having my G.I. Joe guys kick their ass or something. No, that would be mean, but I don't know. I don't remember doing that, so let's scratch that. I'm going to keep it in the episode, but I did not do that, just for the record. What other ones? If you could do one more, what would it be? Like one more pinball machine just for Kim. Oh, just for me? You don't even care if other people would buy it. Hmm. I know one, but I'll let you. Obviously, I'm asking you. but like it has to be something like in modern day like happening like it could be whatever it could be your childhood i don't know i feel like i feel like some sort of like animal like like a safari or something like would be cool zoo or i don't know something with animals i think that's been done i just my historical on pinball is not great but i'm pretty sure i've seen some like something like that i mean would they ever do like a disney movie yeah i mean yeah sure i could see like despicable me or oh that's a good yeah i haven't heard that come up i don't think that okay or like uh alice in wonderland well that's coming oh oh no wait did they do alice in wonderland no alice in wonderland is jersey jack yeah there is an alice in i think wait hold on no that's the new one that's coming hold on we're looking it up right now because i i swear that one's coming Well, now I'm curious which one you think I'd want. Hold on. I'll tell you in a minute. Alice in Wonderland. I think it's Dutch that's making it, Dutch Pinball. Yeah. Oh, sorry. Dutch Pinball is doing Alice in Wonderland. So that's not out yet. I'm getting confused with another one. There's another – shoot. What's the click your heels three times? Oh. Mm-hmm. What do you mean, mm-hmm? Dorothy, Wizard of Oz. Yeah, I'm getting confused. You're asking the person who never watches movies. Yeah, my wife doesn't watch movies. It's so weird. I'm the worst. But we went to watch, you took me for Father's Day to go see Men in, no, not Men in Black. Bad Boys. Lethal Weapon. Bad Boys. Geez, yeah, cool. See, she doesn't watch movies. She's like, yeah, we went to see Lethal Weapon. It was like 1990. We took a time machine to go there. No, that was good. That was good. But you liked it. No, yeah, it was awesome. Actually, for those of you that haven't, you're probably going to get beat up for this too, but I don't really care because I like cheesy stuff sometimes. But I think that Bad Boys, I didn't see one of them. So I saw one and two. I think they made a third one, and I never saw that. So I was a little lost in some of the parts of the storyline. But, you know, it's Bad Boys, so there's no storyline. It's not so in-depth. But you didn't see the other ones, right? No. You've never seen them. I think maybe I've seen the first one. yeah but you were laughing a lot at the dynamic between will smith and uh and um why can't think of his name right now martin martin lauren lauren laurence right i think so yeah martin lauren i think all right correct us if i get that wrong but those two characters like they have a fun dynamic like you almost feel like they could be friends yeah like they could be friends but uh but yeah that was cool that you brought me that and i think see i think you secretly like movies you just don't you have an issue with like things that don't have intermission like if a movie had like a break in between where you could go get snacks and like get up out of your seat i think you'd like movies better like old school like the old way they used to do movies they used to have intermissions like go back to that like if they had the curtain closed you'd be like all right i just i need to get up i need to move around i need to like get my head right because sometimes in a movie theater you know it's like all i can hear the people chomping or they're talking i mean that goes back to some of your issues that you have yeah it hard for me to focus on one thing for that long Movies are usually like two hours Yeah And I like oh I can sit here for two hours But I think maybe you like pinball because it so variable Like the ball is never going to the same place. I mean, of course, a lot of times when you hit the same shots, the ball is going to come back because it's designed to come back to a certain place. But I think there's a lot of variability to it. Like if you miss a shot, you don't know where it's going to come back. Right. And you have to really focus on it. So I think that's why it keeps your attention more than like an arcade game does. Yeah. Even though there's variability in an arcade game, I don't know. It's not, maybe it's the mechanical part of it that you like. Like you're controlling it. Yeah. Yeah. You're really truly controlling the outcome. Well, and I think you just hit it right there. What, you control the outcome? Because I'm a control person. I like to be in control of everything. So I think, yeah, maybe that's it. I don't think, I think people listening to this that don't know you might think that. I don't view you as a controlling person. I'm not a person, like, I'm not controlling you or anything. I'm just saying. You like to control, like, your world. Yeah. I don't like things that are out of my control, I guess. Yeah. I don't know that people, I don't know that. Okay. That's a deeper topic, I guess. I don't know. Am I, is this weird? Edit this out. No, no, we don't have to edit it out. I don't know. I guess I know what you mean because you're my wife. I just don't know if anyone listening will understand what you're saying. Maybe they will. Oh. But I get what you mean. Yeah. No, I get what you mean. Like you, you feel like you, um, I don't know, whatever, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Anyway, moving on. Moving on. How do you want to wrap it up? I'm going to let you do it. I'm putting you on the spot. Well, you never told me the game that you thought I would. Oh, I thought you, if they did a, uh, law and order, if they did a law and order, cause you love. I was thinking that. I don't know. Or like a criminal, like some sort of like crime scene. They've done CSI, I think. I think they did. Hold on. I thought they did. I still love CSI. Hold on. I don't know why I, I, yeah, they did. They did a CSI crime scene investigation pinball machine. That's funny. They did it in 2008. Yeah. I don't know. I've never played it. So that's the thing. Like this, what's cool is like, we should go to, um, well, so Kim's sister lives in, or my sister-in-law, she lives in, um, Vegas. And so it would be interesting to just take a little bit. We don't have to go for like that long, but it would be interesting to go to the pinball hall of fame with you because they have they have stuff from it's really really old um yeah and they have stuff that's modern too but we could go back and kind of look at some of the old ones like like can you play them there or are they yeah yeah no no you can play them it's it's um sometimes they're not in the best shape because it's a non-profit so they just they they have volunteers that come in and repair them but they they will definitely have that machine i mean that might be a harder one to find i'm not sure it was 2008 and i don't know how popular it really was but i don't know Maybe it'd be fun. That'd be cool. Yeah, Stern made it. It looks like Steve Ritchie and Pat Lawler was the designer, I guess. Yeah, so that's one thing that's interesting. Would it be cool? Because I know I'm not going to force. I never force hobbies on you, right? I mean, I'm always like, if when you're interested, I'm like, hey, let's play. And the other day, you actually brought it up to me. You were like, let's play. And we went in. but it'll be interesting to see if the games you end up liking are always by the same designer because i think they will be yeah because you love godzilla and you love jaws yeah and that's the same designer so and i think it's because i i like the pinball machines that have more of the 3d coming up like effects you know what i mean or like i feel like what is it more venom is like flat uh it's called a fan layout yeah where like everything's kind of like just right directly in front of you that there isn't like a lot of stuff going on yeah which i think like a real pinballer would be more into that whereas like i'm like the non the non-pinball person well what's crazy is they're not it seems like i i'm i'm assessing it by someone who's still kind of relatively new here but i feel like that fan layout the venom has the hardcores don't like it they would prefer something like a Godzilla or, or Jaws, actually. I don't know why I can, if I'm wrong, please, please anybody in the comments, correct me. But I just feel like everyone always has like a bad thing to say about something that's like that kind of like all the shots are sort of right in front of you like that. They don't like it or that like there's nothing in the front of the play field and everything's just sort of pushed in the back. Yeah. They tend to not like that. I don't know the terms yet on like the different layout types. I don't even know, but I know that one, like they call it a fan layout. And then a lot of people just seem to not like that. So it's interesting. So actually, I think you're probably more in line with what someone that's really into pinball would like. I'm so current. So you're like, you're like a pinball person. You don't even know it. So what do you think about the whole, uh, before I wrap it up, like, what do you think about me going to these tournaments that I just started to go to? Do you think that's a cool thing or? Yeah. I mean, I think, I think you have a lot of fun doing it and I love that. I think it's, You're getting out of the house, you're meeting people. And I don't know, I think anytime that you can like connect with people about something that you enjoy, just like with my my cycling stuff, like I have like a community of people that are into the same thing. And I think that's the same thing with the pinball. And I love that for you. And I love that you have friends there. And it's just something that you can step outside of everyday life and go do. no I agree with you and I think for me too you know this that my job changed a lot where I don't travel really as much although I've been traveling a little bit lately but getting out of the house is is is good for my like own mental state because sometimes I mean you're going out because your your job you have to go to the studio yeah to teach your classes where for me there's times where I mean think about it there are times here where it's days and days and I haven't really left the house outside of like going to get the mail maybe or putting the trash out so it's like that's kind of it does help me mentally and I know we go out and do things but you know what I'm saying like during the week we're all busy and sometimes we're just not doing that so yeah I think mentally it's it's helped and and uh it's every Monday so well it's every I don't I'm not saying I'll go every single time but but this one is like a six-week tournament So it won't, it'll end like, I guess around the end of, or maybe the middle of August or something. Yeah. But anyway. I think like in general, like that's like something that, you know, like everyone watching or listening to this, like go out and like find your closest arcade, you know, bar or, you know, do like join something like that. Because it's just like good to get out and actually do it for yourself and play these games and have fun. and again, be a part of a community instead of just sitting here listening to other people talk about it. Yeah. I like you saying this because you've noticed that like you realize there's a lot of value in that and you're not even someone that's like hardcore into this. Yeah. But, but that's, it is important. And what's interesting to me is like, so for those of you who don't know, Kim got interested in cycling through a Peloton that I had that turned into like a paperweight. Like I wasn't using the Peloton and, and Kim was like, I want to start working out and doing blah, blah, blah, this or that. Like she always worked out, but I want to do something. And she got on the Peloton and got hooked on it. Excuse me. And what's interesting though, is that like, I'd argue that that interest got you wanting to be an instructor. Right. And then, and then like now, doesn't it feel a little isolating when you're doing your Peloton at home versus the studio where you have all these friends and, and yeah, you know, yeah, you, yeah, you can feel their energy. like you know we're struggling together and we're sweating together and it's it's in your face and it's right there and i don't know i think that's really cool and i think especially after coming off of the pandemic when everyone was so used to staying inside like get out now like get out and meet people and i think that's so fun and again it's like you're part of a community that you may not even have realized that you were a part of until you start like meeting these people i mean you've met some awesome people through i mean not just pinball but arcade and i mean we've met some Some of our closest friends now are through that of the things that you've you know, you're yeah, you're hobby. I know. I know. It's crazy. And I think that a lot of people need that, too. Like not everyone has a significant other or whatever. And so if I was home alone and my house was filled with pinball machines, but yet there's this world out. Yeah. And there's this world outside of the house that I can go to where people are just as geeky and nerdy about this stuff as me. It's cool. And you will ultimately everyone at these places. I've never met someone so far that's been a jerk at these places. They've all been really nice. Maybe people get a little competitive here and there, but that's normal. Mostly for fun. Yeah, that's mostly for fun. Anyways, I think it was really fun having you on. Yeah, thanks for having me. Will you come on again, you think? Absolutely. Especially when that Barbie pinball comes out, Stern. Oh, gosh. We'll see. We'll see if they call it a Barbie pinball. Well, I appreciate Kim coming on. And I think, you know, you'll probably I feel like you'll be back in the future. People will see. I'm sure I'm sure the reception will be good. Everyone loves everyone loves classic Kim. So and I love everybody. Yeah, you're such a sweet person. Kim Kim legitimately does love everyone. But don't cross her. Yeah, don't cross her. She can be sweet as pie, but be a little spicy in a good way, though. Right. Hey, don't mess with me or anybody I love. That's right. Yeah, don't mess with Kim and don't mess with any of her family members, and she'll love you. All right, guys. Well, thanks so much for listening. Hopefully you enjoyed this episode. I really loved having Kim here to get her perspective on pinball. So that's it for now, guys. If you like the podcast, please follow it on all the podcast platforms, Spotify, Apple Music, and I don't know, whatever the hell else it's on. It's on something else. I just can't remember right now. And that's it for now, and we will see you. Oh, the next one.

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper)_

---

*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 9313f2cc-92fa-456b-aedd-e530c5852043*