# Triple Drain Pinball Podcast Ep 52: Wiping Buns

**Source:** Triple Drain Pinball Podcast  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2024-06-01  
**Duration:** 67m 30s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://zencastr.com/z/83rBkEXa

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## Analysis

Triple Drain hosts Joel, Travis, and Tom discuss their recent Stern factory tour in Chicago, addressing transparency around access journalism and receiving sponsored merchandise. They detail the facility tour, employee interactions, and seminars on licensing and manufacturing costs led by George Gomez. The episode includes extensive commentary on John Wick pinball observations and lighter segments featuring Joel's children interrupting the recording.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Stern invited the hosts to an all-expenses-paid factory tour with no strings attached, no NDAs, and no content restrictions except in certain areas — _Hosts confirm they received invitations from Zach Sharp with hotel and dinner covered, travel reimbursement offered, and no filming/recording restrictions in specific areas_
- [HIGH] George Gomez presented detailed seminar on licensing challenges and BOM (bill of materials) costs affecting game pricing — _Tom and Travis both reference Gomez's presentation on licensing challenges, costs involved, and how licensing impacts every aspect of game development including video, audio, and in-game items_
- [HIGH] Stern employees were instructed to clear their desks of future projects and keep screens clear during the tour to avoid showing unreleased content — _Joel reports design team members told him they were asked to ensure desks were clear of future projects and screens didn't display upcoming work_
- [HIGH] The hosts describe the tour as 'access journalism' and commit to transparency about receiving preferential access — _Tom explicitly frames the tour as access journalism and emphasizes being upfront about the nature of their experience, stating they deserved transparency_
- [HIGH] Stern employees showed genuine passion and enthusiasm for their work across the facility — _Travis emphasizes that getting to hear employees' unfiltered thoughts, pain points, and passions was the most valuable part of the trip_
- [HIGH] A tournament was occurring simultaneously during the facility visit, creating logistical challenges for content creator networking — _Multiple hosts note that a tournament happening at the same time made it difficult to navigate crowds and spend one-on-one time with other content creators_
- [HIGH] Stern indicated they want both positive and negative content creator feedback to inform business decisions — _Joel reports being told privately by Stern: 'keep doing what you're doing. Like good and bad. We want it all.' Travis also references Gomez saying they want honest feedback_
- [HIGH] Tom has a John Wick Pro but is not interested in upgrading to the LE due to theme preference and artwork differentiation not justifying the price premium — _Tom states he's happy with the Pro and notes the LE artwork wasn't enough motivation to pay extra, citing theme preference as important factor in LE purchases_

### Notable Quotes

> "It's a form of access journalism. And that's perfectly fine. A lot of times it has a negative connotation to it in this way. It could be positive for us that we need to be up front with what that is."
> — **Tom**, ~10:00
> _Directly addresses the elephant in the room regarding sponsored tour and sets tone for transparency throughout episode_

> "They have every right to run their business how they want. And they did. They were upfront and clear that it was perfectly fine. If we're going to be critical about what we see, they can't control that."
> — **Tom**, ~11:30
> _Emphasizes Stern's openness to criticism despite sponsoring the tour, defending against accusations of bias_

> "Getting to hear people's problems and you hear about their triumphs, you get both ends of the spectrum. I think that makes for a much more compelling story and a much more compelling business or company."
> — **Travis**, ~15:00
> _Articulates the value of humanizing the manufacturing company through employee perspectives_

> "Keep doing what you're doing. Like good and bad. We want it all."
> — **Stern representative (reported by Joel)**, ~40:00
> _Shows Stern's stated openness to both positive and negative content creator feedback for business improvement_

> "We're trying too hard. I don't know. What do you mean?"
> — **Tom/Travis**, ~24:00
> _Humorous exchange attempting to define the 'wiping ass' slang phrase that became running joke throughout episode_

> "There were 30 of us in a conference room. It would have been cool if there would have been like maybe five or 10... you know, we were able to ask some tougher questions."
> — **Tom**, ~35:00
> _Constructive feedback about format limiting opportunity for deeper Q&A and tougher industry questions_

> "How can we as pinball content creators help you guys?"
> — **Joel (question asked privately to Stern)**, ~42:00
> _Demonstrates proactive engagement approach and Stern's receptiveness to creator collaboration ideas_

> "I truly thought it was awesome. I mean, I really did. The cabinet art is spectacular."
> — **Tom**, ~52:00
> _Tom's positive assessment of John Wick LE artwork despite deciding against purchase based on price/theme fit_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Stern Pinball | company | Primary manufacturer hosting facility tour; focus of episode discussion around manufacturing transparency and licensing challenges |
| George Gomez | person | Stern executive who led seminar on licensing challenges and BOM costs; described as transparent and engaged during tour |
| Gary Stern | person | Stern Pinball leadership present during facility tour |
| Zach Sharp | person | Stern Pinball employee who personally invited hosts to factory tour; works at Raw Thrills; brother of Josh Sharp |
| Seth Davis | person | CEO of Stern Pinball, present during tour |
| Joel | person | Co-host of Triple Drain podcast; primary organizer of Stern tour discussion; frequently interrupted by family members during recording |
| Travis | person | Co-host of Triple Drain podcast; emphasis on humanizing manufacturing employees and their passion for work |
| Tom | person | Co-host of Triple Drain podcast; also content creator for Fox City Pinball on YouTube; played John Wick LE at tour facility |
| Jeff Teolis | person | Pinball content creator and podcast host present at Stern tour; participated in lunch with Zach Sharp and hosts before tour |
| Triple Drain Pinball Podcast | organization | Podcast hosted by Joel, Travis, and Tom discussing pinball industry, games, and culture |
| Fox City Pinball | organization | YouTube channel run by Tom featuring detailed Stern tour experience video |
| Flipping Out with Friends | organization | Podcast featuring Joel where he previously discussed Stern tour experience in depth |
| Flippin' Out Pinball | organization | Referenced as outlet where hosts have provided prior content; involves Zach Minney |
| Logan Arcade | organization | Venue where Stern employees gathered with tour group for additional social event with drinks and pinball play |
| Raw Thrills | company | Company that Zach Sharp works for; provided merchandise to tour attendees before Stern tour |
| John Wick | game | Recent Stern pinball release observed on tour in both Pro and LE versions; discussed regarding artwork and pricing differentiation |
| RoboCop | game | $5 tournament game played during Logan Arcade evening event; Joel repeatedly lost against other players |
| Jaws | game | Game referenced as keeping one host occupied during tour, limiting their participation in conference room Q&A session |
| Dwight | person | Stern tour guide praised for exceptional energy level and passion; noted as someone who listens to Triple Drain podcast |
| IFPA | organization | Organization hosting World Championships that will be streamed by Carl D'Angelo; one host planning to watch from booth |
| Pinside | organization | Online forum where community discusses and criticizes pricing and manufacturing decisions; hosts reference reading feedback there |
| Neil | person | Referenced in humorous context about 'wiping ass' pinball reference; appears to be known pinball community figure |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Access journalism and transparency in pinball media, Stern factory tour experience and manufacturing insights, Licensing challenges and bill of materials costs impact on game pricing, Content creator relationships with pinball manufacturers
- **Secondary:** John Wick pinball LE vs Pro differentiation and value, Stern employee passion and company culture, Community feedback and constructive criticism in pinball industry
- **Mentioned:** IFPA World Championships streaming

### Sentiment

**Positive** (0.78) — Hosts are genuinely impressed with Stern tour experience, manufacturing facility, and employee engagement. Tone is appreciative of transparency and access while maintaining critical perspective. Light, joking tone throughout (especially around 'wiping buns' running gag) keeps overall sentiment upbeat despite some legitimate criticism about forum skepticism and missing tougher Q&A opportunities.

### Signals

- **[business_signal]** Community skepticism about pinball content creator sponsorship and potential bias remains active despite transparency efforts; forum skeptics question tour attendees' credibility (confidence: high) — Hosts acknowledge internet complaints about being 'bought off', address accusations directly, and proactively define situation as 'access journalism' requiring transparency
- **[community_signal]** Stern proactively invited multiple pinball content creators to factory tour with full facility access, employee interaction, and explicit openness to both positive and negative feedback (confidence: high) — Hosts confirm all-expenses-paid tour, Zach Sharp personal invitations, Stern statement 'keep doing what you're doing. Like good and bad. We want it all'
- **[sentiment_shift]** Pinside forum community expressing frustration about game pricing justification and challenging manufacturers on cost decisions; some keyboard warriors critical of tour participants (confidence: high) — Tom references reading comments on Pinside about pricing challenges and hosts noting same people complaining about transparency now criticized those who got tour access
- **[event_signal]** IFPA World Championships (IFPA 19) upcoming with Carl D'Angelo streaming; Triple Drain host planning to watch from streaming booth (confidence: high) — Joel mentions 'IFPA 19 World Championships, which I am going to be watching from his booth' with Carl D'Angelo streaming
- **[licensing_signal]** George Gomez presentation focused extensively on licensing as primary cost driver and constraint affecting nearly every aspect of game development (video, audio, physical items, mechanics) (confidence: high) — Tom states: 'every single aspect of it video audio um the items in the game the cost of the stuff in the game' and notes Gomez explained how licensing challenges impact BOM and pricing
- **[manufacturing_signal]** Stern factory operations scale impressive with substantial employee count; design, assembly, licensing, and logistics teams operate in coordinated workflow with clear task distribution (confidence: high) — Hosts describe touring facility with multiple Stern employees in different roles, assembly line, parts inventory, and getting to hear varied perspectives on specific job functions and pain points
- **[market_signal]** Stern emphasized manufacturing transparency and facility scale as tour centerpiece, prioritizing employee participation over regular production to demonstrate company culture (confidence: high) — Joel notes Stern made factory tour the priority, instructed employees to clear desks of future work and participate in creator interactions rather than work on active projects
- **[product_strategy]** John Wick LE artwork and cabinet art represent significant visual differentiation from Pro model, but some collectors prioritize theme fit over premium pricing justification (confidence: high) — Tom observed LE artwork impressed him but theme preference (not being John Wick fan) prevents upgrade from Pro despite 'spectacular' cabinet art

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## Transcript

 the pinball network is online launching triple drain pinball podcast hey everybody we're going on a tur oh yeah stern tur stern tur we went on a tur um oh wow travis literally said i said i'm hitting the button travis he goes no i'm not ready yet i hit it anyways uh what do you got there travis look at all those things that you bought I mean it's really no big deal at all or no big deal no big deal it's cool I got spotted cow you know I wouldn't worry about this I don't even know how that got in my hand that cloth bag sweet jacket bro look at this it says raw thrills I don't know why the internet's complaining acting like we're bought off or anything I have no idea what they're saying. Yeah, like, what's that? Chill? No proof. No proof. No proof that we were paid off whatsoever. Side note, we had lunch before the Stern Tour with Josh Sharpe, and Josh Sharpe works for Raw Thrills. So all three of us got – Jeff Teolis was there as well. We got – he had some Raw Thrills merch that he gave us here, have a shirt. And I wore that black Raw Thrills shirt the other night. My wife is like, what is that? And I was like, it's a, they make like, you guys didn't even get a tour of, uh, we didn't get the tour. Monica didn't drive fast enough. Thanks Josh. But anyways, the raw thrills shirt, she just, she thought it was an interesting name is what I'm saying is what it goes down to. She's like, I don't really want you to wear that shirt. I was like, why is that an interesting name? Raw thrills. I don't know. Your brain can put two and two together, Travis. I don't think like that You're one sick puppy Joel Critical thinking does not happen on this My wife had that We're good Are you good? Is everybody good? Let's start the podcast like that Raw Thrills, Joel's Wife, let's go And we call on ourselves Triple Drain Triple Drain We're Triple Triple Drain Perfect. Perfect, yeah. We actually are kind of on a time crunch. This is going to be a shorter episode for us. It's probably still an hour. Just get started with the episode instead of talking about how we're on a time crunch. Yeah, okay, fine. It's Friday. We all have plans and this is, we're like, if we're going to record, we've got to record now. So here we are. We have three things to go over. We got Stern Ter, a little bit of John Wick, a little bit of Funhaus. So let's see if we can squeeze it all in. If not, it's Travis's fault. It's not Tom. It's not me. But you're just you're you're lining up all these innuendos like just lobbing up softballs to us. Yeah. We're all thrilled. Squeeze it in. Yeah. It's Travis's fault. I've heard that a lot. yeah we're my life we all know um okay so uh stern ter uh first and foremost we're gonna keep saying ter because that's just for travis um uh so yes i i talked about flipping out with friends the other night we talked about this i said we it was me ian from nudge uh magazine and retro ralph we talked about this for two hours um tom has already made a video on fox city spinball on youtube where he's expressed his thoughts so if If you really want some in-depth thoughts on each of our individual personal experiences with the Stern Tour, check out that. Otherwise, Travis, he's done nothing. He's done nothing for this. I love how we are on a group podcast and you a-holes have already gone elsewhere and given your full thoughts. I don't appreciate being called that, Tom. Time is money, man. That's true. Tom was like day after. I think it was like Friday. He got home and pumped that video out. Yeah, Tom is like the freaking Ringo star of our group now. He's like starting to branch off. Like, who's the Yoko Ono? Like, who is trying to pull Tom away from us? Got all this individual stuff, and it's really good, too. Yeah, he's – Yeah, it's like – I'm Ringo. He's still doing it, man. Yeah. So if you can't get enough of the three of us, Foxy's Pinball, flipping out pinball, and the pinball company. We all have our own avenues. But anyways, so just for full transparency, Stern, Zach Sharp specifically reached out to us. He reached out to each one of us individually and invited us to a Stern tour. It was basically a full day event. He said all expenses paid, plus they were going to give us roughly $2,000 to $3,000 each based on how positive our feedback was on the Stern tour. Well, they told me they'd give me an LE, Joel. Oh, that's right. It was free. That's right. It was either cash, straight cash, or a game. You guys got the short end of the stick. I'm on the board now. I own shares. I probably have a condo in Chicago. There's a lot of shit going on now, guys. We're trending up. We're trending up. So in actual honesty, there was none of that. It was basically, hey, we invite you here. All expenses paid, as in get yourself here. We'll reimburse you however you travel here. We'll take care of your hotel. We got dinner taken care of for you. Just if you want to come, come. And there was no strings attached, no NDA, no please film this or that or do an interview or, you know, no content restrictions, nothing. It was just, well, there was there was some contact or content restrictions. We couldn't record or take pictures in certain areas. But I'd say there was no there was no expectation for. And Gomez said when we were in the conference room, we weren't supposed to talk about that stuff, which it seems like some people have. There was some stuff. I talked about it a little bit. It was some stuff that we talked about, but there was a few stories and specific stories that I understand. But nothing crazy. It was basically like we talked about licensing and you didn't want us to share specific examples to piss off possible licensors. Absolutely. I completely understand that. Well, I mean, more than anything, like it's good that you address this, Joel. And it's just addressing the elephant in the room. Like, look, like what we did last week, let's just call it what it is. It's a form of access journalism. And that's perfectly fine. A lot of times it has a negative connotation to it in this way. It could be positive for us that we need to be up front with what that is. Essentially, we're getting access to something that not many people have access to. Right. And it is strictly because we are in the position that we are in. Like, let's just call it what it is. And that doesn't mean we're any less appreciative of it. It was an awesome experience and everything. So it's good to be transparent about that to let people know, like, what this was. Because it gave us a chance to see everything from a different point of view. Some of it I pretty much knew. Like, it felt like 90% of what was discussed in there I was aware of outside of just how the actual factory itself worked in the way that it was. Yeah. So that was fun to see. But I mean, yeah, that's just what it is. But the bottom line is it's a good thing that it happened because it allows transparency. And it's funny. I've read some of the comments out there and everything. It's like the same people that were begging for factory transparency, like pictures of manufacturing this and that from everybody else. It's like, hey, here's a pinball manufacturer actually opening up the doors, taking time out of their day to talk with us, to let us know about what is going on. And to me, there's nothing wrong. There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. They have every right to run their business how they want. And they did. They were upfront and clear that it was perfectly fine. If we're going to be critical about what we see, they can't control that. That's how it is. So, I mean, I can tell you from my end and talking to Tom and talking to Joel, like whatever you hear. it's going to be our honest thoughts. That's unbiased because it is what it is. And I think the listener deserves that. They deserve to hear that because that's, I mean, just like our last, last, last podcast. That's to me, transparency is good up to a certain point. Cause you can't give like everything, but you got to give some, you know what I mean? It's like a give and take. I think people respect that. So, so I'm recording in the middle of the day and my daughter's yelling my name. So talk so much yourself. Keep it going. I'll be right back. Oh, we can do that. Hi, Tom. Hi, Travis. How are you doing? It's summertime and Joel's gone. I know. Can you believe it? No. This is what happens. But no, I mean, so just going a little bit deeper into the tour a little bit, you know, like we said, if you've heard it from other people, essentially what happened is we got to show up to the facility. It was George Gomez and Gary Stern and Seth Davis, who's the CEO. Sorry, my throat's really dry. So if I stammer over my words, apologies. But yeah, everybody was really welcoming. We got to see the factory. We got to see how everything was made, which, you know, a lot of that Stern's been open because of all the factory tours that they've done in the past before. And they do it during Expo. And I'm sure they do it even between times. But, you know, it was just it was fascinating to for me to get that many Stern employees in the same area and get to hear their passion, what they are passionate about. And what I found so fascinating about it is Stern is such a large manufacturing company because let's face facts, that's what they are. And Gary has been upfront about that. They are a manufacturing company. And what is so fascinating about it is you had all these different employees that they have different tasks and different jobs to do. And they come into the projects at different times. And it was very interesting to get to hear their unfiltered thoughts on what they do, what their pain points are, what they thoroughly enjoy about it. And there was a lot of them that were honest about it. And that was refreshing to hear. And it's not stuff that I would necessarily put back out there publicly at all. But it was nice to hear their side of it, their point of view, because it does create a clear picture of what's going on. you know, and I think us as content creators, we can appreciate that, you know, people are going to have different opinions on everything, right? Even the keyboard warriors that are out there that are like bagging on everybody that went or anything, you know, it is what it is. But the funny fact about that is they're content creators themselves anyways, like anybody that's on a message board giving information, they're providing entertainment, they're providing engagement, they're going for upvotes, they're doing all that, right? They're answering questions. So I think like a lot of people need to step back and realize there's content creation all around and it comes through different forms, whether it's through written form, video form, podcast, audio like this. And I think that's what makes pinball great, because you have all kinds of different opinions. You have people that want to collect a ton. You have people that don't. You have people that just want to play. That's what it is. And that's what makes our podcast great, because we all three of us come from different backgrounds. Right. It is what it is. But yes. Yes. Well, I'm saying great for like us to do. Right. Now, whether the listener thinks it's great or not, it's whatever. Hopefully you guys do. But I'm talking strictly. It's great for us to do because it's fun. Because like the three of us, we are not in an echo chamber. Like we call each other out all the time on our bullshit. Like it happens all the time. That's what makes it fun. So, yeah, that's for me. That was the most exciting part of the tour is getting to hear people's pain points, getting to hear what they thought about the projects. getting to hear what they love about the industry. And, you know, it's, I think it humanizes people. We talk about the connections, right? When you hear about people's problems and you hear about their triumphs, you get both ends of the spectrum. I think that makes for a much more compelling story and a much more compelling business or company. So that for me personally, that was my biggest takeaway and dwight's tours are awesome that guy's energy level is off yeah the charts yeah it's it's like if you play a dwight coded game right it's like literally it's seeing that in action live action right there he was so excited yeah he was so much passion and it's oh yeah yeah yeah it was awesome for sure dwight's an awesome dude i also know he listens to this podcast so thanks a ton dwight for the tour um that was super entertaining uh speaking of problems What do you think? What do you think? It was my son. What do you think he was yelling for? What do you think he needed? You both have had small children. Any guesses? He wanted breakfast. Let's see. Probably. I don't know. What is it? He had to poop. He had to poop. That was what it was. He needed help with that? Dad, I just want to let you know I got poop. Oh, he just wanted to let you know. Yeah, well, somebody's got to wipe his butt. My wife is here, so I don't know why I got yelled at. I have the same problem. so you guys are called in on shit dirty is what you're saying neil i gotta poop neil i gotta poop neil's home from college someday man someday oh someday neil's gonna have to wipe my ass yeah exactly thank you tom we're gonna get old all right hey oh god no nothing nothing what did you say he does it he already does it in pinball yeah he wipes tom's ass yeah is that how that saying goes isn't that a thing kicks my ass Well, kick his ass is different than wiping his ass. I think you can still use that as a way to. It's like wipe the floor with. Oh, brilliant. Okay. Am I mixing too? No, whatever. Keith, if you're listening to us, you wipe all of our asses at pinball. Raymond, you wipe all of our asses. Who else is it? Escher, you wipe all of our. See, it doesn't work. It makes zero sense. We'll see. If you're watching this on YouTube, then that makes sense. Joel, we'll leave it. I don't edit anything. Yeah. Okay. I can't wait. By the way, I want to give a shout out to Carl D'Python Anghelo, who's going to be streaming the IFPA 19 World Championships, which I am going to be watching from his booth, probably. That's awesome. All right. Well, not that you're watching from the booth. Hold on, Joel. Hold on. Joel, settle. Tom's still talking. Everybody can come up to me and say we wiped your ass in pinball. So there you go. I mean, that's awesome because Carl streams. They wipe everybody's ass, right? That is true. Yeah. This is not, urban dictionaries let me down here. Dude, Joe, you have no idea. You have stepped into the wipe ass territory. I cannot wait. This is going to be a meme. Steven Bowden, fun with bonus. An expression you use to tell a person to stop bragging who claims victory before a brawl. That's what they're, okay. It doesn't, it doesn't, no, slang. What does wiping mean? Slang, slang to be, okay. We're trying too hard. I don't know. What do you mean? we're trying to all of me yep yep i i i missed that one up i dropped the groundhog i dropped the groundhog yep anyways stern tour um 100 i agree with you can't pivot from this joel yeah you can't save we don't need we have a time constraint we have a time constraint okay i didn't expect you to use the phrase wipe your ass like i need 15 seconds to process it okay Okay. Just picture Neil and Tom, and you got it. You got it. Okay. We're good. Go ahead. What brought me into this? We did, yes. Travis probably just went over this, but it was – Yep, I did. It was – the super simple thing is just we saw a super impressive tour of the facility. The facility is huge, a ton of employees. We had a really cool seminar kind of presentation from Gomez where we really dove into licensing, the challenges with licensing, and the challenges with what all is involved with the BOM. and there's way more to that and that a lot of that comes back to licensing and the cost of everything and not only it was good timing because he obviously showed us the whole facility so every single one of those employees every single item on a shelf every single part of that assembly line every bit of that cost money plus every single one of those games with the unique challenges of licensing every aspect of it video audio um the items in the game the cost of the stuff in the game. There a lot of that There was some good dialogue there And then just a ton of time We had a ton of time to spend one time with basically every Stern employee And I would say that was absolutely the most valuable part of the trip. They fed us. We played a bunch of pinball with people. They bussed us out to Logan Arcade where a whole bunch of other Stern employees were there. We hung out with them there. There were drinks. It was awesome. I mean, we basically had – There's $5 RoboCop, which Joel still owes us. I do, actually, yes. Yes, I held my own, I felt, but I never won it. You held your own for one ball because we all had house balls, Joel. I was never fourth. I never lost. I never lost in that. Well, that's Teolis' fault. That's not our fault. You know, there was two or three games I got second. So that whole, what is it, not the bus driver, but it's my wingman or whatever. Like, I would have made it through a few rounds, get in second place. I'm just saying. You wiped so many asses that night. I was wiping them. It was crazy. Wiping them left and right. All up and down. Yep. I even had fun with Teolis on the battle Pac-Man thing. Oh, yeah. That was great fun. Yeah, we were taking dollar games to a whole new level. Did you play that, Joel? Okay. No, I think my son is now yelling at me to go wipe his ass. So let me be right back. Let me be right back. Oh, my God, Joel. He is on fire right now. How many emails are we going to get? We picked the right time to record. We did. This is fantastic. Listeners, Joel won't hear this unless he listens back to the podcast. Please, just send in emails to him that just says, you know. We need at least 50 emails about this. Yeah, just say, like, thanks for wiping the ass. And you don't have to say anything else. Joel, can you wipe my ass? This is fan-freaking-tastic. But no, that Pac-Man game was awesome, though. Just where you have to attack each other and everything. Yeah, that was fun. It was good times overall. Hopefully nobody at Stern was mad at us that we were playing RoboCop all night. Nah. Well, there was a tournament going on at the same time, too. We were staying out of their way. Now, we did play Rush at the beginning. Yes. And I got annihilated on it. Well, I thought C.O.L.S. was going to be so much better at Rush because he's Canadian. and that's true didn't happen it's a shame he was trying his best to throw you off he he tried and he brought shame to his entire countrymen like yeah it was fun though his dollar goes a long ways i mean it's only worth like i think 28 cents in american currency but you know i think that's the exchange rate right yeah my only regret about the whole thing is i guess i wish i would have I hung out with more of the content creators. Yeah, it was. There wasn't a lot of time. No. Well, what made it tough, too, is because there was a tournament going going on at the same time. It made it to where we all kind of became like in our own little areas because you had to just work your way through an entire crowd and find somebody. You know, there's just a lot of bodies all around. So that made it a little bit more difficult. Yeah. I wish I was your experience. the buns have been wiped they are wiped it is it is all this is all what i realize is my wife is mowing the yard that's what's happening that's what's happening right now your wife is doing what my wife is mowing the yard oh she does it she oh you can't give me crap anymore now no no like this episode this is the gift that just keeps on giving i love it the yard is a constant conversation in our like because we both realize it's an hour of freedom so we like want to mow the you want to mow a hundred percent well shit you can come mow my lawn anytime like come here come here uh-oh come here oh we got somebody come here all right hi buddy hey how's it going all right tom watch your language all right what what just happened upstairs what did daddy just do What happened? I forgot I think he's a little embarrassed right now What'd you do? Don't worry this is going to be broadcast to millions of people And daddy did what? He wiped your Buns Oh wiped your buns? Well that's a good thing though right? You don't wipe dad's buns do you? Right You do? Oh well My apologies My apologies little man but do you like pinball and everything pinball's cool calvin would you ever drop a groundhog no okay exactly thank you calvin thank you all right all right okay bud can you go back what an adorable kid yeah he's look at that that's definitely doesn't have joel's jeans that's for sure yes we're getting into a whole new area holy cow this is why this is solid planning why did you not buy a toy story you it would be fine if you had a toy story there i speak from experience they'll play that thing all day long so but anyhow so we got to like we talked about late night drinks and all that we were at the bar and it was just yeah i wish we could have talked to more of the content creators more it was a little bit difficult to navigate that and that's like my one regret. I wish I could have talked a little bit more with that. There was a ton of people there. There was a ton of people there. It would have been nice to spend more one-on-one time with all the other content creators just to talk to them. And I like all the certain people were there and I felt like we absolutely had good amounts of time to talk to people, but I definitely like came home and I was like, crap, I wish I would've talked to this or I wish I would've talked to that. I was also expecting, like, uh, I'm surprised there was no, I don't know, one-on-one, like with not necessarily like Gomez or Zach Sharp, but it was just like with Stern, like a Stern group talking to small, like we had a big, there were 30 of us in a conference room. It would have been cool if there would have been like maybe five or 10, because there was a part at the end, like, do you guys have any questions? I mean, it's kind of like that in the John Wick area or in the brick area. You know, we were able to do that. If we could have got your butt off Jaws, you know, you would have been able to participate in all that. There were, I would just say there was the content creators that were in the room. There was a, there was a large variety of them, like of different skill levels of different types of content. So I think some of the questions we wanted to ask, it's like, it wasn't the environment to ask it, if that makes sense. And, and that's where I just think smaller or more intimate setting could have been nice for a few of us to ask some tougher questions, which is a lot of the feedback. We all know I don't speak up that much. I really wanted to go, hey, you know, during that whole Gomez meeting, how can we as pinball content creators help you guys? Sure. I wish I would have thrown that out there. I did. So I did ask that question privately. Yes. Privately, yes. But legitimately, the answer was just keep doing what you're doing. Like good and bad. We want it all. So they were very upfront about that because I think they realized that honesty and transparency, like we talked about earlier, as much as possible is a good thing. I think it's refreshing that they don't. Of course, any company wants everything talked up as much as possible. Right. You want everything to be super positive. But I think there's a firm understanding there that even the negative, there's something positive that can come out of that because it gives them an idea of what other people are thinking outside of the company. Right. To where you do get out of the echo chamber, you get out of that forest and you see, OK, how is our decisions affecting this group of people? How are our decisions affecting this section of people? So I think that's important as well, because you hear feedback. Right. And yeah, of course, there's people that go off the deep end with negative feedback that's not meant to serve any purpose other than just flinging poo against the wall more than anything. Like, that's just what it is. But it's like that across the board. Yeah, exactly. It's like that in any industry, though. It's not just relegated to pinball. But I do think also there is a form of constructive criticism that depending on who's receiving the information, they could see it as just pure negativity and not do anything with it. Or they can see it as spotlighting something that they an issue that they may not have thought of in terms of seeing it from that point of view. And that could help guide future decisions to where you make more positive decisions in the future that if somebody else is wiping ass upstairs. But you know what I mean? So that way you can make an informed decision in the future with the direction that you're going as a company, with product releases, with marketing releases, with engaging with the community. And I think all that is super important when you're trying to scale up a business and you're trying to run a healthy business. Because at the end of the day, you want to make money because you want to keep people employed. And it just it's a symbiotic relationship. It goes hand in hand. Yeah. And it was. Yeah, I I just know that that's at least the feedback that I've been reading on Pinside and others. They're like, why did you know if I would have been in that room, I would ask them, how dare they charge this or why? You know, can you justify this? Probably why you weren't there. and but does that make us soft or does that make us like no i were respectful like you know obviously we're invited we're invited in there now if they would have said or if they would have had like breakout sessions of each one like okay is there anything you really like is ask us the tough thing that's one thing that's been really neat about interviewing gomez like every time before i've started interviewing him he's always said like joel ask anything ask anything i'm going to be as as upfront as i can now if it broaches breaches into like something legal that i can't disclose like but i'll like be what are the next five titles yeah yeah and of course that question came up you know like it or you know people always try it's like it's it it is what it is so i i i just looked at it as i was it was a humbling experience to one be invited and then to just be like to be able to see something as impressive as that facility and then the full transparency that they had or the, um, what I, what I had said in, in one of the other, uh, when I did this on flipping out with friends, which was just like, it was clear that Stern made that the priority of the day, all the employees besides the assembly line workers were essentially told just don't work or not like don't work, but it's like participate in this participant, like talk to people, interact with people. Um, I talked to some of the, some of the people from the design team. they're like, yeah, we were told to come in, do whatever work we can, but at the same time, make sure your desk is clear of any future projects and don't have anything up on your screen that's of a future project. So they're like, we really couldn't do much. So why would we not hang out? And it just seemed like everybody was having a good time, Stern employees and content creators. So it was awesome. It was a really fun day. No idea how often they're going to do that. If I was invited, I'd be happy to do it again. And honestly, I think if any of us had got an email from any of the other manufacturers that said, Hey, we want to pay for you to come to our facility and check it out and engage with us. Like I would consider it, uh, for us, the three of us, it was an easy drive. It was a few hour drive for each of us to get to Chicago. It wasn't the end of the world. Um, it's not like we had to fly halfway around the world or anything to experience it. So it was a fun Thursday and I'm, I'm, it was a blast. I'd happily do it again. well that being said so obviously to help us segue here since we're only 15 minutes past our allotted 15 minute time for this segment yep but but it's paid off greatly because of you know the y-pass thing thank you joe for that that's a gift that we'll keep on giving but this is a good segue because we got a chance to see john wick on the line and we got a chance to see the john wick L E. Yeah. Tom's fine. I'd be interested in it, but we got to see one in the facility as well. Right. In the bricked area. So, you know, what were your guys' thoughts on that? I guess, Tom, what was your thoughts on it? Since you got to see it, you saw the back glass, you saw the art. What do you think about it? I truly thought it was awesome. I mean, I really did. Um, the cabinet art is spectacular i mean he kept uh he kept pulling out his wallet and i'm like tom tom you guys kept going you're getting one you're good you're saying that that like that le artwork though is something else artwork isn't everything okay okay you know sometimes sometimes your wallet talks to you too and it's like you better yeah better not But, no, truth be told is I'm really happy with the Pro, but back to the LE. I was impressed with the way, you know, the mechanisms were and everything like that. And the artwork. but it wasn't enough for me to go the extra mile and pay more money for the limited edition. But I think a lot of that, too, is theme. So, like, I'm not a huge John Wick fan. So, you know, I have a Pro right now. I don't know how long I'm going to keep a Pro. So, you know, so, you know, when I buy an LE, I want to keep it for for a long time. Yeah. So that's that's part of the reasoning. Well, I think if I was a huge John Wick fan, I'd be all over it. Right. And I think you you hit the nail on the head there, Tom, that there's a big difference between a theme in which one location it would probably destroy. Like, I think this theme will do excellent on location. If you're an operator, I would highly recommend getting it because I've heard that there's some that have kind of held back a little bit just to evaluate. But this right here, there's certain themes that you just know. It talks to that demographic. And I think that customer demographic in terms of looking at it from a segmentation standpoint, somebody that wants to walk in, coin drop something. John Wick ticks a lot of those boxes. But I get how from a home user standpoint, it may not right now. And that's why I think hopefully when the LEDs start getting out, people will see it and see kind of the some of the cool stuff that they didn't have in the promos. Like, for instance, the the lights, right? The speaker lights. Yes. Flash whenever there's gunshots on LCD and the shaker motor goes nuts. That is an awesome effect. Seeing that and the haptic feedback of that, that was a fantastic experience and something like that. it just brings us back to kind of feeling that modern and that nostalgia, like just crashing in together. And that's like, for me, from a pinball standpoint, just a pure fan, not worried about scoring a billion points every time. That was pretty cool. And I think your, your average buyer or your average player that may, that may really speak to them on that experience. Like that may be like the most standout thing about it. So I thought that was pretty cool. Along with the back glass, the artwork on the back glass. Fantastic. Fantastic. So basically what Travis is talking about is it's in code that isn't released yet. Tim showed us some beta code. And what he showed was they are working in basically creating a choreography between what's on the LCD and then what you see in the lights and what you feel with the shaker motor. So I talked about this a little bit because it's weird to me, but I like it, which is normally a shaker motor. You hit a shot and that's when the shaker motor goes off. So you destroy something, you bash something. And so I'm a huge fan of the shaker motor, but I've always used the shaker motor as I'm in multiball. And then you feel the shaker motor go off and it's like, oh, that was the jackpot or that was a good shot. So you can feel that you hit something without necessarily seeing the ball hit the thing. This is different. He what they have choreographed, what they've choreographed is if you're in John Wick's house, that particular scene, it's very dark. And so he's using a silenced pistol. So there's a lot of muzzle flash. and basically what he said is like, if you hit a shot with three enemies, when it shows the scene of him shooting three guys, when the muzzle flash in the scene goes off the speaker lights will flash and the shaker motor will go off So it almost like the lights and the shaker motor are reacting to what on the screen not necessarily what you just shot Sure, you shooting it started the animation, but there will be a difference there. So you're still going to feel the game go, you know, shake three times because you just shot three things. So you still get that feedback. But it's a very it's a different thing. They're trying something. It's a level of immersion. Immersion. It was needed for what the theme is and for what you're currently doing in the game. And it's much to me when we talk about innovation and you hear a lot about innovation, that is innovation. And that's I mean, it doesn't have to be something that's just like world crashing, like world ending. And you know what I mean? It can be something that's so subtle like that. But yet it's it has an impact. And that's to me, that's what's needed. That's a great addition. And I know they talked a lot about when they did the tour about standardizing parts and the importance of that. And, like, as of right now, there are two different style cabinets. There's a basic cabinet, which comes in black, but then there's the expression lighting cabinet. And I think I was getting the vibe that Stern is potentially going to go to everything having expression lights. I mean, in general. I really hope they do. Yeah, I totally agree. I didn't think that would work at all in the past to get away from rock, but it, it works. Oh, it's great. Yeah. Yeah. I think it looks fantastic. You might be able to see it behind me, but I have an expression lighting kit in this John Wick pro that I'm borrowing. And I love that the pro premium and Ellie, hopefully from here on out, I'll have that. And the fact that they've talked that the speaker lights are going to be available for the pro premium and Ellie. So I would love for that to be something going forward. Now, as a, you know, Tom, as an LE buyer, if they're going to bring these unique things that the higher levels were only have, like JAWS only has the speaker lights in the LE, but a premium and LE technically run the same code. So my whole thought was always, if there's some way that they sell that outside, you know, you could potentially bring the JAWS LE speaker lights into a premium game. That's the thought. So I don't know, does it bother you that they're, that they're bringing some of these higher end uh unique features the le only features they're actually allowing those for an additional cost down into a pro or premium no i actually think it's a good idea uh that they're letting you know pro pro and premium buyers do it because there's already features on the le that you can't get you can't get the foil you can't get the foil uh decals cabinet decals. The art, you can't get the powder-coated you know... You can't get exactly those. You can get aftermarket powder coating. You can get it aftermarket, but... You have to make an effort, though. And you can't get the actual back glass where it's mirrored. The mirrored back glass is a big thing. And your art blades, the LE art blades are always different than what art blades they sell separately. I still believe the one thing that I really wish Stern would start adding to an LE is a Translight that comes with it that is fully signed by the entire team. I think that that's something that would be a good value prop for people. That would be a great idea. I think that's something that can be done simple. There's Translights everywhere. Now, obviously, it comes with a cost, but if that adds an extra value prop, why not? They already signed a certificate. They already signed on the apron the little card there. So I think that'd be cool because people like people like stuff like that. I'm glad that Stern is continuing to I mean, these speaker lights, it sounds like speaker lights are going to be a standard in games moving forward. Now, what I think is unique is Spike 3 is right around the corner. Right. And I know when I when I interviewed Gomez, he did hint at there would be a cabinet redesign element. So it's kind of a what I don't necessarily know what that means, because if you know, if these speaker lights, I have no idea how many games out we are from getting to spike three. So if all of a sudden spike two games, expression lights are standard and everything speaker lights are, you know, I would hope that would be a trait that they're going to carry into spike three and continue down that path. What do you think, what do we want to see with spike three though? Like, um, well, more coils, more, more powerful, everything. So that's what I'm assuming is they will probably be, they will probably have the ability to have more mechs in the game. I'm just hoping they have an HDMI output for the LCD. I hope the LCD. That is my only hope. And leave the duck fart in. As a streamer. The duck fart stays in, too, in code updates. I hope the LCD screen is, if they're going to do something, I would love for it to be bigger. Now, honestly, I would love for it to be stretched. Even though you don't think the LCD is a selling point? No, you just heard him. He's about to turn it into a DMD. This is my thought. You just heard him. Okay. So instead of a 16 by 9, if they could stretch it. And here's the reason why. Because if they're going to do movie stuff, right, like John Wick. John Wick is in 16 by 9 format. So if you have something that's wider, then you can display graphics without overlays right in the middle. But then you have room on the edges to have continuous data, whether it's scoring other jackpots. Like that was a big thing that Gomez ran into with Bond. The licensor wouldn't let them overlay anything. So they had to do this no fly zone where they would have the videos and then everything under it or around it. So if you just had a screen that wasn't 16 by nine, then you would always have area where you could have dedicated pinball stuff. and you could do DMD stuff if you wanted to. Like for the old games, it would be in a layout that it would be easier to do kind of like a CGC stretched dot matrix graphic. But just a thought, I hope they do something bigger with the screen. We've talked about this before. That's why I think JJP actually, what they do, their screens are so big that they're allowed to have movie clips in the middle and then static data in the corner. So you always know what's going on with the multiball or your mode or your this or that. I would love for Stern to go a little bigger, but I would love, like he's saying, more powerful everything. So more powerful CPU, Gode boards, all that. I'm just hoping it doesn't raise the game cost thousands of dollars. Well, yeah. I mean, you never know. But there is something on the LCD that I think that they could still do, that Xbox does this, and it's fantastic. Since they have achievements with the Stern Insider Connect, why not enable the user to be able to pick out the three achievements that you're going for, that you keep making progress for, and have that progress bar stay up on the LCD screen to where you can easily track it? Because there is a lot of people out there, and they seem like they're going all in on Insider Connected. So that's another way to drop down that barrier to where somebody wants to earn a quest badge or something like that, and they actively see their progress going towards that. So instead of playing and then having to check your phone or go back to your computer and refresh it, you actively see the progress happening in real time. I think that would be awesome if they did something like that. There is so much they can do with Insider Connect. Huge shout out to Ben. Ben, there's a guy that works at Stern. I think he talked to all of us. He listens to all the pinball content. So passionate. What a nice guy. He's intelligent is what he is. Like highly intelligent, well-spoken. And yeah, he's the guy that draws all of the badges. And so I think he's got a lot of drive there. And I'm very curious to see. They're going to do a lot. They're going to do a lot with Insider Connected. And Gomez did talk about it that as of right now, all the Insider Connected stuff, there's a ton of data, but they are paying. They use Amazon servers. They're paying for that. Like CERN is paying for that. And that's the thing that they're realizing is they can do so much more with it. But anytime that you add custom stuff like what you're saying, Travis, the database and the resources are going to grow so much. And so that's where there may actually be a need for the Insider Plus program where you pay whatever, $30 a year, but you get additional features. So what they did clarify just before people get pissed, basically everything that you currently have in Insider Connected, they have full intention of keeping completely free. It's just I think they have some bigger ideas. Maybe it's home leaderboards. Maybe it is, you know, kind of individual customizable things. If you're going to get that level of uniqueness, there's probably going to be a cost to that. Let's go ahead and just figure this out real quick then. Would you guys be willing to pay a yearly fee if you knew behind that fee was a bunch of kick-ass features that you saw extreme value in, that you knew you wanted to use? Yes, I would. I would too, personally. Especially as a home buyer. Yeah. You know, like, you know, if I got the chance to play Joel head-to-head, you know, in a heads-up format on the display, yeah, I'd pay for it. One of us would be wiping the other's ass. It depends on how you want to interpret it. You're going down, Joel. I really hope somebody's just, like, skipped through this podcast and they just got to that point. Well, first and foremost, it depends on the cost. If they're saying it's $400 a year, I would bet twice. Everything's going to have a utility. Everything's going to have a utility. But if it's $40, yeah. Think about it. If they charge something like that, why does it have to stop at just for you to use at home? Why can't you bring that over to location to have access to other stuff? I think that's completely fair to do. Obviously, everything has a cost. But the same thing happens with Xbox. I pay multiple yearly fees for all my kids to have Xbox Live and for me to have Xbox Live. And so and there's rewards that comes with it. So I get to put like Microsoft points into like another membership with it or into getting merch or into getting a gift card. So, yeah, there's a lot of different ways to get in this. Right. But it has to be something that, you know, the end user wants to for them. Yeah. And the great thing is they were very clear that that's their guiding light on that. It's does the user want this? And so that's that's an excellent way to look at it, because then we are not going to get stuff in which it's just thrown out there just to say, oh, I hope this works. Right. It's if the end user wants it. Yeah. Joel, do you got to go wipe another ass? No, I just heard you took your hands off. It's like you hear a noise and it's just like you were thinking of something very. Somebody died. No, no, no. I think we're good. You make sure your wife still mowing the lawn. Is that what I think? We're good. um yeah so but yeah insider connect i i like it i think they're going the right direction with it overall and you know i know it's been slow going in terms of like everybody getting to see what they wanted to see uh for instance there's no forum yet but hopefully they get a forum going they figure that part out and they can do that on you know message boards because obviously everybody loves message boards but i think they're going the right way with the quest and all that because I see people all the time following it. And when we saw the numbers or the March Madness stuff, that was awesome. Yeah, they figured out a way to get people to actively engage with the product. And that is massive. When you can figure out how to do that and you can get somebody to re-engage with the product month over month, that's how you get growth. Yeah. Yeah, no, for sure. I, for the sake of time, I just realized we have three topics. We are doing good. Time to depart on the interruption. Go, John. We are two minutes ahead of time. Go ahead, John. Are we done with John Wick? Because John Wick, there was something. Basically, John Wick's code is not there yet. Sorry, Tim. But they released .80, but it's not 80%. And we've been told before that the 80% is not like the .a0 doesn't mean 80%. I think there's a solid base foundation of code, but there's a lot. There's a lot more that needs to be added in that game. And as of right now, the game does a very poor job of telling you what to do. It's just, and that's the choreography that needs to be added between light show or call outs or display graphics, something telling you, what am I trying to, like, you'll start a mode. it flashes on screen how to beat the mode and that's it like and then you just have a you have a like you have no idea what you're doing in the mode or multiball or this is a step above where bond was when it came out yeah yeah and so that's that i think what we're saying is it it's tough having the pen come out like this knowing that we got to wait four to six months for it to start fleshing itself out correct yeah okay and that's something that i have no doubt i i really like the way the game shoots i really do uh we had mentioned just real quick uh i do like the way the shoot the premium shoots better and that's just because the crate is so much easier to hit um than on the pro i like how the pro shoots better i i also i will say if i was to recommend which version of the game to buy i think i would recommend the pro honestly i just the other things that are in the game i don't i think the pro is a it's kind of like a turtles like it's it's it's basically it's a complete package. It really is a solid game start to finish. So I do think the pro, especially with expression lights is the way to go. So anyways, code, I just, there's a long way to go for the code. It's a solid base, but it created a really good conversation between us all, which is we like complex code. We do. But when, when a novice person or a casual or pinball enthusiast or whatever you want to say steps up to John Wick right now, it is near impossible to explain what to do in the game. And honestly, it's kind of getting that way with a lot of modern games. You don't think it's like... Well, it's impossible to explain how to finish stuff. Shoot the crate and start a mode. That's pretty easy. But then what? But once you start a mode, then what? Hit the lit shots? Oh, I mean, sure. You can say hit the lights, enemies hit the light, but it's just... But I think that's where things go haywire, guys. I think that right there, like we talk about all the time, hit the lit shots, right? Caveman strat. But I think that's the disconnect, too, that I don't know. It's like I want to feel something more when I'm playing. And the most exciting parts that I find in a pinball machine is when I know what is going on. So I know why I'm hitting a lit shot. I know why it's going to do the jackpot. We've talked about this privately. The play field artwork should give you some direction as to what you're doing. Yes. Or inserts. There's a lock over here. Or, you know, this shot does this, you know. Yes. So perfect example. Thanks for bringing that up, Tom. So on John Wick right now, like to get into multiball, you have to bash the continental building and then lock shots in the middle. Thankfully, the announcer says, like, ball one or, like, lock lit or something. Like, there's some indication. But as of right now, there's nothing – there's no light that indicates to hit the middle ramp to lock a ball. There is a light, but not on the ramp. It's on the back panel, and it blinks, just telling you that the lock is available. But there's nothing – if you're playing and you're like, okay, what shot do I hit to lock the ball, you have no idea. I hope they make that little arrow in the middle green. Green usually means lock. But it's little stuff like that that they could do it, or even the car multiball. Like to start that multiball, you have to hit the left. Here's an idea for a modder. Make some kind of mod where you actually light the ramp up with those lights in the back. Oh, so when that flashes, it's the ramp to flash? So when that flashes, your ramp's flashing. I think on the Pro and Premium, because it has that extra, I think there is an additional light on the ramp, but it's not there on the Pro. I'm sorry, Premium and LE. But I agree. But it's just little things like that. And the conversation we're having in the background is we're using Deadpool as an example. Like there are inserts that say lock, you know, or that are green. Or Deadpool it was like shoot here It actually says on the cabinet shoot on the game shoot here Or they were using a Bond 60th Like Bond 60th has inserts that are green that say lock you know and it just little things like that that I do think we need to make sure we not stepping away from the important how important inserts are to communicate what to do in a game I have a question for you, Joel. Uh-oh. I'm ready. You've played Jaws. I have. How do you know when you're supposed to lock a ball? That's a great question. And what's funny is when we were having this conversation, I was thinking, OK, well, we all love Elwin, right? So is he doing a good job of explaining it? And I realized, you know, like on Godzilla on the building. I don't there's nothing that says to lock the ball, but the building does drop. It's a reliant. Modern pinball has a reliance on the RGB is what they have. So if if an insert starts turning a different color, it's our job to figure out what that color means. And it's universal that somebody new to pinball won't know this, but green is typically a lock. We know this as pinball players because we have the mental representation of previous games. It's like Pavlov's dog. That's what we've been trained to know. So that's kind of I think we've seen that over time happen. Yeah, right. We are learning that. But it is when there's a physical ball lock, it's easy to point to somebody, you know, like Simpsons in the couch, like get the ball there. Um, but, and I get it that John Wick has a physical ball lock, but it's just, it, it's, there is, um, we've talked about it before when we talked about the MD versus LCD, but it's, it's really hard to, I think a lot of designers rely so much on the display. And if that core, if that choreography and the call-outs and the coordination isn't going to get there until 0.9 something code, 1.0 code to finally flesh everything out, to really communicate what you're going to do. It's hard when these games are first released to really know what to do, unless you study, unless you watch videos, unless you ask, you know, and, um, so I've, I've figured out this much and I've thought about this a lot. I've tried to, like, I've studied it. I've tried to figure it out. And I think what essentially we're talking about is finding a way to bridge the gap between what is very complicated at times and complex at times to something that's understandable. And oftentimes we have to bridge this gap with somebody that may not have the skillset to even do it, right? Even if they understand it, they may not be able to do it. So that becomes a whole separate issue that essentially whenever you start a mode, the way that I view this, you are then on a journey to the end of that mode, right? You're on a journey. You're hitting different shots. It's telling you what to do. It's giving you feedback, but you're doing that to get to a payoff. So that payoff could be a risk reward feature to where you're cashing in value, right? You're hitting a jackpot. I think what it comes down to is figuring out how do we compress that journey into something that is easily understandable for whoever's playing. Because if you do that, then you have fun and then you make the frequency of the payoffs much higher. And then you have the end game events happen at a much more rapid pace for somebody that may not be even an average player. And that's where you bring the fun into it. That's where you bring the, I don't feel like I'm getting my ass wiped or anything like that. Right, Joel? So, I mean, that's the whole point of it, right? I think that's really what it boils down to. So, and we see that play out with Pulp Fiction, right? We see that play out with Elwin's many events that he put into Godzilla that people like. And I think that's something that I really hope people start adopting. You know, industry wide is figuring out how to compress down and look at it as each mode and each thing is its own little mini event. How do I compress that down into something that's understandable, something that's fun, something that's simple enough. Right. to where the beginner can appreciate it, but yet something that is challenging and rewarding enough at the payoff to where the expert wants to do it. Right. That's the key. I completely agree. And the examples I have in my head, anything with a progress bar. You know, Guardians of the Galaxy, there's progress bar. Godzilla, every battle, there's, you know, Gigan is how many out of eight shots you've had. And it's very clear you're hitting the ramps. It tells you to do that. I know other Deadpool, like you actually have the health bar of the guy and the only things that are lit are the shots that are going to hurt him. You know, that's a great point, Joel. I mean, honestly, I mean, I love those features in games because, you know, when you're going to finish that mode and all that. But yeah, we only well, I know Jaws. I had Elizabeth Elizabeth Gieske on the screen and I'm like, hey, how do I know how many more shots I have in this mode? And she's like, well, I think you have like two. But it's there wasn't as far as I know. I don't think Jaws has a progress bar yet. Right. Well, it makes it tough, too, if all the lights are going off at the same time, too. And it feels like everything's an event. Then nothing's an event. Sure. A great example of a game that does this very well or a mode that I absolutely love is Rush. Fly by night. The fact that the lights start dimming. out more and more that's instant feedback that you know you're doing something right and then the payoff of hitting the time machine up the middle for your jackpot yeah stuff like that that is something yeah that's stuff that's easy to understand for something yeah foo fighters has a great progress bar it's always clear what where you're at or how far you are in each mode um so and that varies based on how ramped up your van is so i i don't i think the more stuff It could be a bar. It just could be, you know, you have, like you were alluding to on Godzilla, you know, Gigan. One of eight. One of eight. Yeah. I'm totally with you. It could be that or it could even, I don't, I assume this is possible to code in. I don't know. I'm not a coder. But something like a light just flashing quicker and quicker and quicker to give you the idea that's not just a hurry up, but there is progress being made there because it's aimed at gaining your attention. So if you could isolate a part of the play field to where that light isn't just solid, isn't just flashing, but the frequency and the velocity or however quick it actually flashes could be an indicator as well. Something like that. And I think we have that. Like, that is pinball. But it's figuring out how do we isolate that to where it's an in-game event. So Avengers Infinity or Avengers. I'll just say that. Avengers it's where Infinity Quest so there we go I finally got it out the Hulk spinner right when the gamma spins start when you hit that inline switch you know instantly that right there all the feedback you do not need an LCD screen to indicate that to you so those are the things I like about a pinball machine I wish there was more of maybe that's a good challenge for a designer that it's just like when you get into this mode or this multiball, how do you know through audio and light show your total progress? Because I know like JAWS, there are certain things where the chum line, the way the chum line's lit is actually showing you progress. I think it's something with one of the multiballs, but just little things like that. Like how do we continue to show or communicate? The more that you can communicate the progress, what you're doing, and the fact that what you're doing is correct. And if you could do that without just assuming you look up at the LCD screen, that would be awesome. That would be really. I'm sure that's thought of, too. But I think a large part of it is a reliance on what the LCD is giving for information and what the RGB is giving for information as well. And sometimes it's just hard to see if the ball's flying around. You have to make those decisions so quick anyways. True. But, man, that last shot on Deadpool when you hit the scoop, I mean, the whole light show is strobing towards the scoop. You have a heartbeat in your ears going nuts. And the moment you sink that. Because it's flashing me. It's telling me to hit this. It's the only thing flashing. That's what's great. It's just the only thing. It's the spotlight effect. It's awesome. Yeah. If I knew how to code a game, I would want spotlight effects galore in terms of, like, saying this is the end of the mode or you're getting closer to the end of the mode. I'd want you to feel that impact. knowing you and technology, I would call it a win if the game turned on. So we'll, uh, we will see. Um, he just wiped your buns. Wipe them. I got him. Let me bend over. My God. We're at an hour. We're at an hour. We, we have one last topic. People want more Joel. Yes, I know, but my kids have to eat lunch too. So, um, uh, the last topic, and I don't want to rush it because I know this is important topic, But I think it is something that we are going to talk about more, and that's Funhaus. And the reason we're going to talk about more is Travis works for the pinball company. The pinball company has been involved in this, in the process of this game coming to fruition. Is that the right word? Yeah, for well over a year. For a long time. So Travis actually knows stuff about this. So I'm going to shut up for a second. Yeah, Funhaus, Travis, go for it. I mean, what do you want to know? I knew it was coming. I knew it was coming. You just can't. You can't. I set the ball on the tee, and he goes, am I supposed to swing the bat? What do you want me to do? What do you want to do? You want me to just do an infomercial or something? Like, oh. Yeah. I mean, the game was streamed, right? So it's really. Oh, God. Shit. Oh, you would. You would. I'm prototype game. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So I'll just get this out here. I mean, if you haven't seen it, like, yeah, I can't control it. But the bottom line is, is, yes, there is gameplay footage that is out there. That's that's being shown as like the first gameplay footage. It was not supposed to be recorded footage. It's unauthorized. It was on code that wasn't even meant to be accessed. So because these games are prototypes. So everybody that's watching it, you're watching a prototype game that was just set up for the show just to get feedback from people. and unfortunately is being played on a code that wasn't even supposed to be like there at all. And if I even explain the background of this code, you guys would laugh your asses off. But I don't want to even give that out publicly. I will just say it's not supposed to be seen at all. So we do have a 1.5 code and I've been game testing this now for like probably three or four months at this point. So, you know, we're going to show the gameplay very, very soon. And I actually have to record that this weekend. So 1.5 code is going to be seen. But yeah, so far the project's been excellent. I know a lot of people speculate on, well, why do Funhaus and all that? Funhaus is just an incredibly powerful theme. And we're seeing the results in that with how many people have already gotten in on a midnight edition. It's a lot more than what people realize. So people just like their Funhaus. But I will say, if you have your own Funhaus already, an original, we don't even want you to get rid of it. If you love your Funhaus, keep playing it. All this is, it's more or less just a reimagining of Funhaus. And if you feel like that's an upgrade and you feel like that's something you want to do, awesome. If not, keep jamming away on your Funhaus because it's popular enough. People discover it. People want to play it. It's just a nostalgic theme. It's just, yeah, it's a lot of fun. So we're doing a lot of stuff with that, though. So we're going to we have like a manufacturer visit coming up pretty soon to go over to Petretti, see a bunch of stuff. There's going to be lots more information coming out very, very soon. And I believe last time I heard like games or they're actively being manufactured right now. I can I can say that publicly. And I think it'll probably be like maybe mid-July, somewhere around there. That's the estimated time that we'll start seeing them come out. But I think over here in the U.S., I would probably, this is just an estimate, so don't hold me to it, but it would probably be like the end of summer, early fall, sometime around there. That's the goal. To get it here in the U.S.? Right. Yeah, to get it to customers and everything. Just in time for Expo. We want to make sure it's ready. Yes. Yes, just in time for Expo. So stay tuned for that. And, yeah, I mean, it'll be a lot of fun. I've played it for a while. And the great thing is, is the coils can be adjusted, like the strength of the coils, which you could not do in the original. So, yeah, people can kind of customize their experience, how they feel in it. Like the copies I have, it plays like a fun house, which which I like, you know. So, yeah, yeah, that's all I got for now. That's the update. Yeah, I know we got a lot more coming. I mean, the games are technically for sale. I know like Zach flipping out. He has them. Obviously, the pinball company has them. There's distributors. They are selling. They're selling well. um but if you go on pedretti's website i think you'll see a link to all the distributors so they're selling pretty well overseas and they're selling well here as as well so but yeah i would say keep an eye out on for the pinball company on youtube i'm assuming travis is going to make some content there if you're interested or i know zach is trying to get me one to stream as soon as possible um so there should be more content coming out uh but at the end of the day it is fun house it's a it's fun house so if you want to know you know what it is yeah what's that game about there's a lot of video. There's a lot of tournament play. There's a lot out there of that game. Now, the 2.0 code, sure, that's going to be new. There's new stuff there, and that hasn't been fully released or revealed yet, which is going to be interesting. In terms of what's coming for it, yeah. There's some refinements coming, but yeah. I mean, mainly on the 1.5, it's mainly like an auto plunge feature, which is pretty cool. So you get like a quick little ball save, and then of course you have the DMD that has the different animations and stuff like that. Call me a shill all you want. Buy the game. That's what I got to say. So 1.5 is, it is the original game, just with some new... Just with updated graphics and some other points. It's not new modes. It's not new anything. No. It's just tweaks. It's ease of life or better life improvements kind of thing. Just think of it's modernizing what it was before. That's essentially all it is, but same call-out, same voice with that, same everything. It's like the fun house, all the bones of the fun house that you know and love is there. Wonderful. Well, yeah, this has been quite an episode. It's been very, yeah. I had fun, Joel. It was fun. I always have fun hanging out with Tom. I have fun hanging out with Tom. We agreed to record about an hour before we started recording. And, you know, life happens. So, you know, think of us next time you wipe somebody else's butt because we're all in this together. Is that right? That's what we got. Let's plug it up. Yeah, let's plug it up. Tom, go for it, man. you can find me on this podcast or Fox Cities Pinball on YouTube Twitch Facebook, Instagram wonderful, Travis you can find me on this very channel as well, TPN Triple Drain Podcast and the Pinball Company as well, so feel free to go over there, see the content I do there, but also see the content that Joel does, flip it out, see the content that Tom does with that And yeah, like that's, that's all I got. It's fun. Pinball's fun. I've had a great time. Buy a wick, buy a fun house. I don't care who you buy it from. Just go buy it. Chill, chill, chill. Everything. Love life. Yes, I completely agree. And a huge shout out. We actually did get a few new patrons supporters in the last month or two. So thank you so much for the people that continue to support us there. Once again, the show is always free. It's always available. If you're just looking for a way to support us, that's what patrons for. So thank you for all the people that do that. Same thing. Silver Bowl swag. Apparently people keep buying the swag. So appreciate that. It's insane. Yeah. It's awesome. Yeah. We really, really, really appreciate that. And yeah, you can check me out every Wednesday night on Flip N Out Pinball, the Flip N Out Pinball YouTube channel. We just did a chatting stream, which was a lot of fun. No stream this week because of vacation, but I will be back at it the week after that. Otherwise, yeah, check out this. Continue to listen to the podcast. We really appreciate the support. If you're watching on YouTube, hit the thumbs up, leave a comment, all the things. Smash the like button. Subscribe, all that crap. Yeah, all that stuff. Share, like. Yeah. Perfect. All right, Tom. You got it, man. You got the last one. You're beautiful, Tom. Come on, Tom. Lead us out. Always wipe your buns.

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 937b42a0-f9d7-4b20-b33d-2b972fde77d4*