# Episode 711: "Just Wait Until The End"

**Source:** Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2022-08-25  
**Duration:** 30m 23s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-711-just-71013436

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## Analysis

Kaneda discusses rumors of Stern Pinball's next game (James Bond: Thunderball), criticizes Jersey Jack Pinball's Louis/Toy Story 4 Collector's Edition design choices under Pat Lawlor, reports on American Pinball's announcement of a restored Magic Girl machine from Dutch restorers, and expresses frustration with John Papadiuk's legacy. The episode includes a flashback phone call with Robert Dave Mueller of Deep Root Pinball regarding Magic Girl remake plans.

### Key Claims

- [MEDIUM] The next Stern Pinball game will be based on Sean Connery's Thunderball (1965) rather than the entire James Bond film franchise — _Kaneda citing a 'reliable source' but acknowledges recent sources have been wrong frequently_
- [HIGH] Rush was released in December and it has been 8-9 months since Stern's last new game release — _Kaneda's direct statement on timeline_
- [MEDIUM] Jersey Jack Pinball Collector's Edition of Louis/Toy Story 4 features an ugly red signature plate identical to or similar to Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory CE — _Kaneda's visual observation and speculation_
- [LOW] Pat Lawlor doesn't care about collector's edition design quality and Jersey Jack will see improvements after he leaves — _Kaneda's opinion/speculation_
- [HIGH] Dutch restorers charged €55,000 initially for restored Magic Girl machines, now selling for $35,000 — _Kaneda's direct statement_
- [LOW] American Pinball distributed approximately 900 CE units to distributors on pre-deposit — _Kaneda's speculation based on Zachmanys availability comment_
- [HIGH] Robert Dave Mueller had $61 million in funding for Deep Root Pinball and could only produce two prototypes — _Kaneda citing known Deep Root history_
- [HIGH] John Papadiuk ghosted Magic Girl owners and didn't provide support for broken machines shipped by American Pinball — _Chris Koulouris (Kaneda) personal ownership experience discussed in recorded phone call_

### Notable Quotes

> "I have no idea when the next Stern Pinball game is coming out. I don't even think George Gomez knows."
> — **Kaneda**, Early in episode
> _Sets tone for Stern's communication/secrecy regarding pipeline_

> "It's been eight, nine months since Stern Pinball released a new game. It's time Stern Pinball. Put us out of our misery."
> — **Kaneda**, Mid-episode
> _Expresses community frustration with Stern's release drought since Rush_

> "Why are they doing that? It covers up all of the artwork on that side of the machine. It looks completely foreign and tacked on."
> — **Kaneda**, CE discussion segment
> _Specific criticism of Jersey Jack's CE design choices_

> "I think this is just Pat Lawlor getting out of here. I think they're glad to see him go."
> — **Kaneda**, CE discussion segment
> _Signal of potential leadership/personnel changes at Jersey Jack Pinball_

> "Nobody cares about these John Papadiuk games anymore. Absolutely not."
> — **Kaneda**, Magic Girl discussion
> _Strong community sentiment statement about J-Pop's games_

> "The game is available for purchase at $35,000 now... They're charging $35,000 over the price of a base Magic Girl machine to just wake it up and make it a game that is at least playable."
> — **Kaneda**, Magic Girl pricing discussion
> _Highlights restoration markup on broken machines_

> "Magic Girl will always be in anyone's collection: a sideshow attraction. It's never going to be a good game. It's just a conversation piece."
> — **Kaneda**, Magic Girl segment
> _Definitive assessment of Magic Girl's place in the hobby_

> "I know business and I know pinball probably better than anyone else that's even bothering to run a pinball company, and everything is intentional."
> — **Robert Dave Mueller**, Recorded phone call segment
> _Mueller's confidence in his approach to fixing the Deep Root/Magic Girl situation_

> "No one in the pinball industry has the potential from the existing players to deal with John and make things right except for us."
> — **Robert Dave Mueller**, Recorded phone call closing
> _Mueller's assertion of Deep Root's unique position to resolve J-Pop legacy issues_

> "I want to bury Magic Girl and John Papadiuk and all these dreamers once and for all who have no idea what they're doing."
> — **Kaneda**, Transition to phone call segment
> _Explicit statement of frustration with J-Pop and amateur designer culture in pinball_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Kaneda | person | Host of Kaneda's Pinball Podcast, Chris Koulouris; pinball enthusiast with Magic Girl ownership; provides news, rumors, and commentary on pinball industry |
| George Gomez | person | Chief Creative Officer at Stern Pinball; referenced as potentially not knowing timeline of next Stern release |
| David Fix | person | American Pinball organizer/leader; associated with American Pinball's announcement regarding Magic Girl restoration |
| John Papadiuk | person | Pinball designer (Papa Duke/J-Pop); created Magic Girl and other problematic machines for American Pinball; subject of significant community criticism |
| Pat Lawlor | person | Pinball designer at Jersey Jack Pinball; designer of recent JJP Collector's Editions criticized for poor design choices |
| Robert Dave Mueller | person | Leader of Deep Root Pinball; involved in Magic Girl restoration/remake efforts; recorded in phone conversation with Kaneda |
| Chris Koulouris | person | Kaneda's real name; Magic Girl machine owner; made phone call to Robert Dave Mueller |
| Stern Pinball | company | Major pinball manufacturer; next game title unannounced; rumored to be James Bond: Thunderball; last release was Rush (December) |
| Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Premium pinball manufacturer; currently producing Louis/Toy Story 4 Collector's Edition with criticized design choices |
| American Pinball | company | Pinball manufacturer; produced original Magic Girl; announced restoration partnership with Dutch restorers; leadership under David Fix |
| Deep Root Pinball | company | Investment-backed pinball company founded by Robert Dave Mueller; received $61M in funding; produced 2 prototypes; working on Magic Girl remake/restoration |
| James Bond: Thunderball | game | Rumored next Stern Pinball title based on Sean Connery's 1965 film; medium confidence rumor from Kaneda's source |
| Rush | game | Stern Pinball's last released game (December release); described as 'snoozefest' by Kaneda |
| Louis/Toy Story 4 | game | Jersey Jack Pinball licensed title; Collector's Edition currently on production line; criticized for red signature plate design choice |
| Magic Girl | game | John Papadiuk game by American Pinball; described as broken/unfinished; being restored by Dutch team; €55K then $35K restoration cost; now attraction at Pinball Expo |
| Pirates of the Caribbean | game | Jersey Jack Pinball widebody; praised CE design as reference point for quality collector's editions |
| Guns N' Roses | game | Jersey Jack Pinball licensed game; praised CE design implementation by Kaneda |
| Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory | game | Jersey Jack Pinball Pat Lawlor design; Standard Edition criticized for red signature plate design now repeated on Louis/Toy Story 4 |
| James Cameron's Avatar (Limited Edition) | game | Jersey Jack Pinball game; used as pricing comparison point for Louis/Toy Story 4 CE value discussion |
| Pinball Expo | event | Major industry event organized by David Fix; hosting restored Magic Girl as attraction |
| Straight Down The Middle: a pinball show | media | YouTube pinball show mentioned in context of American Pinball's homebrew game production plans |
| Kaneda's Pinball Podcast | media | Long-form podcast discussing pinball news, rumors, market analysis, and community sentiment |
| Ben Heck | person | Pinboard community member in Great Witch John trailer park game thread; skeptical of project feasibility |
| Great Witch John | person | Pinball community member attempting trailer park themed game project; seeking financing on Pinside |
| Pinside | media | Pinball community forum; hosting active discussion threads on various projects and community gossip |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Stern Pinball next title announcement/rumors, James Bond: Thunderball licensing and game design, Jersey Jack Pinball Louis/Toy Story 4 Collector's Edition design criticism, Magic Girl restoration by Dutch team and American Pinball announcement, John Papadiuk (J-Pop) legacy and community sentiment, Deep Root Pinball and Robert Dave Mueller's involvement in Magic Girl remake
- **Secondary:** Collector's Edition design trends and value proposition, Pinball manufacturing complexity and barriers to entry for independent designers

### Sentiment

**Negative** (-0.65) — Kaneda expresses frustration with Stern's silence/delays, criticism of Jersey Jack's CE design laziness, strong disapproval of Magic Girl hype and J-Pop's legacy, and venting about amateur designers overestimating their capabilities. Some positive sentiment toward Dutch restorers' technical work and humor throughout, but dominant tone is critical and exasperated.

### Signals

- **[rumor_hype]** Kaneda reporting medium-confidence rumor that next Stern Pinball game will be James Bond: Thunderball (1965 Sean Connery film) rather than broader franchise (confidence: medium) — Kaneda explicitly qualifies source as recently unreliable; acknowledges no community consensus or forum mention of this rumor yet
- **[product_concern]** Jersey Jack Pinball Collector's Edition criticized for repetitive red signature plate design that covers artwork, particularly on Louis/Toy Story 4 and previously on Willy Wonka CE (confidence: high) — Kaneda's detailed visual criticism and specific comparison between two CE iterations; describes as 'lazy' and unresponsive to community feedback
- **[personnel_signal]** Potential signal that Pat Lawlor may be departing Jersey Jack Pinball or reducing design/oversight responsibilities; Kaneda expresses expectation of design improvements after his exit (confidence: low) — Kaneda speculates 'I think this is just Pat Lawlor getting out of here. I think they're glad to see him go' and expects 'good changes moving forward'
- **[market_signal]** Jersey Jack Pinball Louis/Toy Story 4 CE demand uncertainty; Kaneda predicts fewer than 1,000 units will be produced despite distributor pre-allocations; concerns about $25K non-refundable deposits (confidence: medium) — Kaneda's speculation based on distributor feedback, Zachmanys availability, and $3K price premium over Elite version making CE harder to justify
- **[supply_chain_signal]** Speculation that Jersey Jack Pinball may be reusing CE armor parts from previous games (Willy Wonka to Louis/Toy Story 4), similar to historical Stern practice with WWE/Guardians CE parts (confidence: low) — Kaneda speculates red armor appears identical; notes Stern precedent of parts reuse; questions whether full 500 CEs were even produced
- **[community_signal]** Strong negative community consensus on John Papadiuk games and legacy; Kaneda reports '99% of community' doesn't care about J-Pop machines despite artistic merit (confidence: high) — Kaneda's direct statement; supported by Chris Koulouris phone call describing owner frustration with ghosting and non-functional machines
- **[restoration_signal]** Dutch restorers spent 3 years mechanically fixing Magic Girl; converted €55K initial asking price to $35K; game now functional showcase piece for Pinball Expo (confidence: high) — Kaneda's detailed reporting of restoration scope, timeline, pricing, and current availability as Pinball Expo attraction
- **[business_signal]** Deep Root Pinball received $61M in funding under Robert Dave Mueller but produced only 2 prototypes; reflects industry-wide manufacturing complexity and capital intensity (confidence: high) — Kaneda citing known Deep Root history; Mueller's recorded statements about his legal/financial/tech background and intention to 'make things right'
- **[industry_signal]** Community frustration with Stern Pinball's production gap: Rush released in December, no new releases for 8-9 months; no official communication about next title timeline (confidence: high) — Kaneda's direct timeline statement and characterization of wait as unreasonable; states dealers/distributors haven't been informed of webinar date
- **[regulatory_signal]** Rumored James Bond game limited to single Sean Connery film (Thunderball) rather than franchise-wide licensing, likely due to complexity of acquiring all film assets and multiple actor likenesses (confidence: medium) — Kaneda's speculative reasoning: 'too many James Bond movies to pull from and getting all of the assets and the licensing deal to do it would be difficult'
- **[event_signal]** Pinball Expo using restored Magic Girl as marquee attraction; American Pinball announcement framed as marketing stunt rather than product renewal intent (confidence: high) — Kaneda's assessment: 'David Fix as organizer... is just looking for more reasons why you should come to Pinball Expo... using this as an attraction'
- **[design_philosophy]** Pinball manufacturing complexity often underestimated by independent designers and restorers; hobby attracts 'dreamers' who miscalculate manufacturing requirements and cost/timeline (confidence: high) — Kaneda's extended commentary on difficulty of orchestrating production; Robert Mueller's $61M deep pocket example; discussion of unrealistic solo/homebrew expectations

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## Transcript

 If David Fix were to write a song for American Pinball, it would be this song right now. Better days are coming if no one told you Sing it, Dave. I hate to hear you crying over the phone, dear Original IP. For seven years running, you've been a soldier J-pop. The better days are coming, better days are coming for you Oh yeah So when the night feels like forever Oh it does I remember what you said to me I know you been hurting Waitinging on a train that just won't come The rain it ain't permanent And soon we'll be dancing in the sun, we'll be dancing in the sun, we'll sing our song together Say it out, say it out, say it out, say it out, say it out, say it out Welcome to Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. I have no idea when the next Stern game is coming out. I don't even think George Gomez knows when the next Stern game is coming out. What I do know is no dealers or distributors have been told a webinar date. So until they are told, you know, next Tuesday, get ready, you're going to hear Stern's next title. We're not going to get a teaser on a Friday. And so if we don't hear anything over the next maybe 24 hours, I think it's safe to say that we are not going to see the reveal of Stern's next game next week. Now I did get some new information. I'm hearing from a reliable source and you know, my reliable sources recently have been wrong a lot. But I'm hearing this. I'm hearing that the James Bond Game is going to be based on a Sean Connery movie and it's not going to be based on all of Sean Connery's movies. It's going to be based on the movie Thunderball. Now I think Thunderball came out in 1965. So for those of you out there who are James Bond fans, is this music to your ears? Is this an obscure choice of film or are you excited about this? Now look, I don't know this movie that well. I remember the movie posters. He's got the jet pack. He's got the Aston Martin. He's got the scuba gear. It doesn't have one of the most famous Bond villains. It's the guy with the eye patch. I forget his name. I'm not even going to look it up. That's how much I care about this. So that's your rumor. Sean Connery, 007, Thunderball as Stern pinball's machine. I think this starts to make sense because there's just too many James Bond movies to pull from and getting all of the All of the assets and the licensing deal to do it would be pretty difficult. So, will Kaneda be right? Will it be James Bond Thunderball or will I be getting trolled again and again and again by my sources that are not that reliable? Now I will say this, I have not seen anybody go into the next Stern pin thread and even mention that Kaneda said he's hearing it's going to be Sean Connery's Thunderball, Thunderball, Thunderball, Thunderball, It's really frustrating. It's frustrating everybody in the pinball media. And it's frustrating a lot of you out there because we've been waiting since Rush for the next Stern machine. And for most of us out there, Rush was a snoozefest. I mean it's been a long hiatus to get the next Stern machine. Like when did Rush even come out? Like December? Like it's been eight, nine months since Stern released a new game. It's time Stern. Put us out of our misery. Put Canadian All right. Now, as we wait for this, we're seeing a few other things develop in the pinball world. One of them is that Jersey Jack Pinball has collector's editions of Toy Story 4 on the line currently. We're seeing a photo of them on the line. Now, look, this is like maybe a day late and a dollar long, but it's on the line. So this is good news if you have a collector's edition of Toy Story. You know my feelings on this. I don't care about the armor, I don't care about the topper. Even when I saw the photo of this game, normally when I see a Jersey Jack collector's edition, there's something about it that makes me really want the machine. Like Pirates of the Caribbean CE was so sexy. So was Guns and Roses. You know Wonka was okay, wasn't the best collector's edition. For some reason Pat Lawler, when it comes to his CEs, he sort of mails it in. And I can't believe they did this again. I can't believe when you look at The Toy Story 4 Once again put that ugly red Signature plate on the right side of the apron like why are they doing that it covers up all of the artwork? On that side of the machine it looks completely Foreign and tacked on and you would have thought that they got feedback on Willy Wonka Nobody likes the way it looks and it just feels really lazy that they did it all over again The way Guns and Roses collector's Edition implemented the card that goes on the apron, it was like thought out, right? Like the apron's got all these roses on it, but you're not covering up the art. On the Toy Story one, I think the plaque like completely covers up Buzz Lightyear. Like he's there on that right side and Woody's on the left side, and then you slap this like candy-coated red plate, and then you have all these people sign it. Like I just don't get it. The You need to innovate you need to listen to the feedback you need to make a better effort But as I've said and I'll say it again, I think this is just Pat Lawler get out of here game I think they're glad to see him go and I think they're finally gonna implement good changes moving forward now that Pat is no longer Overseeing operations there because Pat never really cared about the collector's editions. He didn't care about it on dialed in PIDDLYWYT, TheWin, HeDaintCareAboutit on Willy Wonka, And again, I don't think he really cared about it on toy story 4. There's just not enough different to see $3,000 more in the price of this one versus the le I mean you're gonna be able to get like a shooter rod for like a hundred bucks and someone's gonna make a better topper than the one that's up on the machine. I can't wait to see unboxings of this game and they need to get these out there now the question becomes how many of you out there who have a nonrefundable deposit of $25,000? I really curious to see how the market responds now that the games are being made Here is my guess I don think they going to make a thousand There is no way they going to make a thousand right now I think they must have had feedback from distributors Like even like Zachmanys Like we have some available which means that distributors have cut a check for a thousand of these games So let say 900 of these games have been allocated to distributors and distributors have paid the deposit on the game So how does it work then before Jersey Jack pinball sends the distributor the product are they gonna require the distributor to make up the difference so that the distributor is basically giving Jersey Jack pinball Like this much money for the game now look distributors I bet like a distributor makes about 1500 to 2000 on every single CE they buy, which means the balance to the distributors not 12 five, it's probably something like 10 five, and it gives them a nice room to make a little bit of profit on everyone sold, but they still got to sell it, right? Even if they don't sell it, that's still what like $13,000 in merchandise they have sitting in their warehouse and they need to find someone to buy it. It's kind of a hard sell because now people know they can get like an Ellie of Toy Story for a thousand off. But as I've said, now that the games are shipping, we will know for sure where the demand is at. A couple sales on Pinside does not signify where the true demand for the game is. There are a lot of people off of Pinside buying this game. There are a lot of people unaware of Pinside. You know, if you go on Facebook and you go on eBay and people just stumble into a Offwhite instantaneous page I call weary arbegener at talkstage interesitute online, I can't wait till someone puts this next to Willy Wonka and we get to see is this the exact same red candy coat armor as Willy Wonka? It looks exactly the same. So then the question becomes this people. Did they even make 500 Willy Wonka collector's editions? Do you think they did? See, I don't think they made all 500 Wonka CEs. And if they didn't, maybe they are carrying over some of those parts for these games. Who knows? Like we've seen Stern do this before. Didn't Stern take like leftover armor from WWE and then use it for Guardians of the galaxy? Like we've seen this before. This isn't the first time a pinball company is just taking parts off the shelf and putting it into a future title. Alright, so we got that going on. What else is going on in pinball? Well look, the most ridiculous item of the day. American Pinball putting out an announcement that Magic Girl is back people. Did you miss it? Did you miss playing Magic Girl, the most broken pinball machine of all time, John Papadiuk's disastrous game that took him like 10 years to make and it was completely unfinished? Now our friends in the Netherlands have spent a few years fixing a lot of the issues on the Magic Girl and they've turned this broken machine into a somewhat, not even somewhat, like a working machine. Is it a machine that's going to give you the level of depth you're No. Is it a machine in which the artwork on the playfield signifies what's going to happen in the gameplay experience? No. But they made all the mechs work. They made all the shots makeable. They made all the ball locks activate. They made like the magnetic flipper area activate. Like all the stuff now works. And there's a lot in it. Like there's a lot they did. Like they spent three years mechanically fixing a lot of the issues in the game. And they spent and utilizing a lot of the stuff that was recorded for the game that never made its way into the initial version American Pinball put out in the world. Even with all that being said, if I asked you one simple question, do you even care about Magic Girl? The answer by like 99% of the community is no. Nobody cares about these John Papadiuk games anymore. Absolutely not. Are they beautiful? Are they works of art? Yes. Are they super rare? Yes. Was this a crazy venture to go down this road of like fixing this game over three years? Yes. And guess what? Guess how much money our friends in the Netherlands were charging for the right to own one of these fixed Magic Girl machines? Are you sitting down? They were selling it for 55,000 euros. The game is available for purchase at the $35,000 Now when they did this work getting a magic girl you could get one for like twenty thousand dollars as a nice work of art So they're charging $35,000 over the price of a base magic girl machine to just wake it up and make it a game That is at least playable. I mean it's crazy. The whole thing is crazy I mean this game appeals to the person that wants the ultra rare and wants something completely unique that not Not everybody else gets a chance to play or experience and on that front it succeeds. Like I can't wait to play this game at Pinball Expo. But the real question is this. Why would David Fix and why would anyone at American Pinball celebrate this game? Why would anyone over there put out an announcement that they're part of this games like resurrection and they help these people in the Netherlands get this game in working order. I think people are reading a little bit too much into this. I think David Fix as an organizer of Pinball Expo, like this is his show. I think he's just looking for more reasons why you should come to Expo. Like they are using this as an attraction. Like if you come to Pinball Expo, you can play a working magic girl, which is like, okay, like you could swim with the mythological Moby Dick of pinball. It's known as magic girl. And you know what? You know what? On that front, I think it's a great sideshow attraction to bring to a pinball show because that's what MagicGirl is. That's what MagicGirl will always be in anyone's collection. A sideshow attraction. It's never going to be a good game. It's never going to be a great game. It's just a conversation piece. And I'm excited to play it and I know the hard work that went into fixing the game and I can't wait to see how they turned it Anybody has gotсеpubs keep up with tink fly tomorrow on P pegaW 노래�seokgg those american and tobaccos in He almost bankrupted another pinball company that you guys gave Papadiuk like plus dollars to tinker in the backroom of American Pinball for a year and then he released this crappy pinball machine Like just stay away American Pinball Stay away from Magic Girl Stay away from hyping it I just think they should have put out this announcement that this game was going to be at Expo come by and enjoy it Don say it coming on behalf of American Pinball because now you got the dingleberries all wondering if American Pinball is actually going to rerun this game or produce it one day And in a world in which David Fix has gone on the record and say hey we going to make homebrew games and we The game is pretty high at the show and then put this thing into production. I don't think he's going to do it. And the guys in the Netherlands are not going to hand over their work to American pinball. And I also don't think he's going to do it because I don't think there's any market for it. Nobody wants this game. Can you hear my frustration? I just can't wait till we get to a place in pinball in which John Popadiuk and his Frankenstein and hackjobCreations have no place in pinball anymore, in which we don't talk about them, we don't try to fix them, we don't try to bail out his idiotic creations. We just stick a fork in Jay Pop, he's done. As Chris and Melissa's license plate says on their truck, because he burned them for $100,000 plus dollars. As their license plate reads on the coin taker truck, Jay Pop sucks. It's time to move on. What are you doing? What else is going on in pinball? Well, look, there's not much. We're waiting. I'm so bored that I'm in this pin side thread about Great WitchJohn and his trailer park game. Now look, this thread has spiraled into absolute craziness. It is like a soap opera in that thread. You've got discussions about how many drinks a day constitutes an alcoholic. You've got Ben Heck saying this project is dead before it even gets started. The Financing this thing you've got all these people on the sidelines either rooting for John to succeed or rooting for him to fail You got everybody questioning whether or not he has the skills necessary to make it happen But I will say this somewhere amongst all of this. I just feel bad for him I feel bad for everybody in that thread clearly he needs some money Received a sense of belonging in this community and that is why he's on pin side every day like so many times a day connecting with each and every one of you in a lot of ways pin side sometimes acts as like a therapist chair for people out there who are just in need of some connection. They might be lonely. They might need some money. They might need some support and they probably just need some attention. I will say on this trip that I I will say having eight beers on a random Tuesday, probably not the best idea. Probably not something I would say if I were trying to lure investors into my project. But this thing is not even about John. It's not even about the people in the thread. It's all about how hard it is to make pinball. And for some reason, even if you're like a restorer or you're someone who's like made playfields, there's a lot of people who have been in this hobby for many years and they might have done full builds and teardowns. And I think what happens in pinball when you're frequently close to it, you start to think it's easy to make a game. Like you look at it, you're like, well, there's a cabinet, there's a playfield, there's some wires and there's some mechs. How hard can it be to put all these elements together if I have like an entire year to do it and if I have like enough money to do it. But people remember Robert Mueller had $61 million and couldn't get one game out the door. He only made two prototypes with $61 million. Best of all, 5,000,000$. And as much as people think they can streamline it, as much as they think they can use a CNC machine in their house, as much as they think they have a friend who can code it for them, as much as they feel like it's easy to get an artist to make art for the playfield, it's really hard. Pinball really attracts dreamers in such a unique way. I don't think I've ever seen a hobby where the end product is a device that requires very complex manufacturing that has basically Lower He could do what a team of people at Bally Williams did on his own. He thought he could orchestrate the production of a game. You know what I'm going to do to end this podcast because I do want to bury Magigirl and Jpop and all these dreamers once and for all who have no idea what they're doing. I want to share with you a phone call I had with Robert Mueller. This is the actual first phone call I had with Robert Mueller when I heard that Deeproot Pinball was remaking Magigirl. I had a magic girl and I just wanted to know from him what's up because I was seeing all this conversation and I just wanted to record the phone call because I thought it would be important to capture you know what he said as someone who was $23,000 at the time invested in magic girl I'm gonna leave you with this little treat no one's ever heard this before Robert probably doesn't even remember having this conversation he's got a lot more issues to worry about now than me airing this for you right now enjoy Everybody thank you for subscribing to the Kaneda Club. We'll be back hopefully soon with Stern's next title any week now. Later. Welcome to DeepRoot. Innovative investment fund design with CP in mind. You may dial the three-digit extension of the person you wish to reach at any time. Main menu. Press 1 for fund customer service. Press 2 for sales or general fund information. Press 3 for Deep Root Pinball. Thank you for calling Deep Root Pinball. The BritishRobert Oh hey Robert, this is Chris, how's it going? Okay. I have a question for you. I'm an owner of a John Popadiuk Magigirl machine. And I just been hearing a bunch of stuff, I wanted to call you guys and see what's going on. Yeah, I'm sorry, Chris what is your last name? Koulouris, K-O-O-L-U-R-I-S. Okay. And are you a part of the local club? I'm a member of the local club. I'm a member of the local club. Ken yex quelleyboookvtoyout strange Jack Ashley the I hope you understand sort of the bind we in Clip of novo Use an anything that's being worked on but because of that it's it would be very hard for me right now to give you a time frame at all I would hope it sooner rather than later but you know it's it is what it is so when that happens so you're welcome to to call back and perhaps we could have a little bit more of a discussion about what's gonna happen where we're very sincere we know I know business And I know pinball probably better than anyone else that's even bothering to run a pinball company and everything is intentional. So we have the sincerest desire to make this go away and to just have fun with pinball again. So you have my wording guarantee on that. Crapman, vertical upelectronic All of the above. Right. Okay. I mean, I guess, so you guys didn't plan like the website to go up because that's what everyone's like talking about is just him, his name on the website is like making people freak out. Yeah. I really, I really don't mind if they freak out. I'm a little bit of a fan of the game. It's unfortunate that people who do have legitimate issues with J-pop are caught in the middle. Right. But, you know, we run our business like a business and that means that we don't really pay attention to most of the people who don't have a stake in the game and will likely never be a customer of ours anyway. I understand that it's a little different from where you're at but I would hope that you would understand that we're professionals. We're going to continue to conduct things like a business would in this particular situation. Robert, is your background in pinball or is it in... I'm a little bit of everything. I have a legal background, financial background, I have a tech background. A. I. I do a little bit of everything. Right. Alright. Well, I appreciate it. Yeah, I mean, just to give you my story. I mean, I purchased a magic girl like a lot of guys and we paid a lot of money for him, right? So there was obviously a lot of angst around any news about around John because just so you know, as an owner, he shipped the machines that he made and with American pinball and And then he sort of just like ghosted all of us. Like he doesn't return our calls, he doesn't respond. And you probably know the games he shipped weren't in fully functioning order. And we're just trying to get a sense of like, is he ever going to give us additional support? Is he our new magic girl is going to be made? And then what do we do with ours? You know, because people have a lot of money riding on these things. And I, I just think that it's unfortunate that this is all happening right now, because it's like reopening wounds for a lot of people. All the Raza guys are still like just in pain. So, so I'm not going to excuse anything John has done. Right. I understand completely where you're coming from. And I will tell you that those are the various issues that we're working on behind the scenes. And I hope at some point in the near future that we'll be able to make things a little clearer for you. Okay. Would that would that work? Yeah. So the rumor I'm hearing and you don't have to answer, you probably can answer but that you guys are making Magigirl and will swap out existing Magigirls for ones that are working. Is there any truth to that? I can't discuss that at all. Okay. Alright. Alright well I guess we'll wait and see how things go. I wish you guys the best of luck. I am anxious when I see John's name on a company's list of, because he just brings a lot of toxicity. So hopefully you guys can figure that part out, but actually we haven't had any toxicity whatsoever which on he's been a pleasure to work with and I wouldn't have I wouldn't be in the situation where I am in knowing the toxicity out there unless I knew that John was the right person to to step up admit his faults and take the consequences as they come and and there's no one including us that are going to WPPR beverrie, murderspan assaultedify, Faculty ActingPrivateC dont owed synthachment, Knapp الت hehe ceramic algorithm's-playifa, And trying to make things right. So if anyone wants to fault me for my view of John, then they don't have to accept some of the things we're trying to do to make things right for people. I mean it just comes down to something simple like that. Yeah, I hope you guys can make everyone whole. I mean that's all anyone's ever wanted with this whole situation is to get the games they paid for. It's a toy. Franchi, Artistic and Posting a posting I said a couple of years ago when I got a little frustrated with John at the time and It still stands today that no one in the pinball industry Have the potential from the existing players to any of the players sense to deal with John and make things right except for us So it took two years for for us to to make the you know have the right ingredients Chiprus Snake M nehme Randity Vy Character Soen a but Ammo dad Finallyämän Seems simult Adечат OM Sign Catch Wash Whatoper ive what What and the magic girl in my living room. Absolutely, I look forward to having that discussion with you. Thanks Robert. Alright, thank you, take care. Alright, bye bye.oleritis acknowledge interpreters rubbing mobisitivethiguantiocommunications

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 93a22c20-2a6f-470b-9de5-25f815bc70b0*