# Ep 38: Catching up

**Source:** LoserKid Pinball Podcast  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2020-06-24  
**Duration:** 65m 29s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://zencastr.com/z/28DTEERj

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## Analysis

Josh Roop and Scott Larson of Loser Kid Pinball Podcast take a break from interviews to catch up on personal updates, community relationships, and recent pinball-related purchases. They discuss their growing collection including upcoming Ninja Turtles machines, the Jurassic Park topper, and reflect on Steve Epstein's recent passing and the series of designer interviews they've conducted over the past three months.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Josh Roop sold his Monster Bash LE for $7,600 through Pinside to Steve Hill — _Direct statement by Josh Roop about completed transaction with named buyer_
- [HIGH] The Jurassic Park topper sold out in approximately four hours — _Josh and Scott both reference the rapid sellout; Scott mentions Dennis Creasel covered this on Pinball Show_
- [HIGH] Jurassic Park topper costs $600 and is one of the most expensive toppers Stern has produced — _Multiple references to $600 price point; Scott mentions only Star Wars topper is more expensive_
- [HIGH] Josh Roop and Scott Larson recently moved into a new house with two basements — _Direct personal statements from Josh about buying foreclosure property within three weeks_
- [HIGH] Josh is receiving Ninja Turtles Pro edition; Scott is receiving Premium edition — _Both hosts state their specific machine tier orders through Flippin' Out Pinball_
- [HIGH] Steve Epstein passed away approximately one week after texting Josh Roop that he would love to appear on the show — _Josh's direct account of texting Steve and receiving response one week before death_
- [HIGH] Stern produces LE toppers with light show integration that sell out within hours of release — _Multiple references to recent topper sellouts; hosts mention all toppers since launch have sold out_
- [HIGH] Christopher Franchi and Brian Allen (Flyland Designs) have had artwork stolen and resold cheaply online — _Scott references incident mentioned on Super Awesome Pinball Show where Franchi 'got pretty fired up' about stolen prints_

### Notable Quotes

> "I swear I'm that little kid on the family vacation that sits in the backseat. Are we there yet? Is it there yet? Is it there yet? I keep doing this to Zach."
> — **Josh Roop**, early episode
> _Humorous self-description of his impatience waiting for Ninja Turtles machine from Flippin' Out Pinball_

> "dude i want this machine but i want to make sure it's legit do you mind let me video conference you"
> — **Steve Hill (buyer of Monster Bash LE)**, middle section
> _Exemplary buyer conduct for first pinball transaction; becomes Josh's recommendation for how to properly buy/sell machines_

> "I feel like something in a casino... feels like something on top of a slot machine where it is eye-popping. It's attention-grabbing. It is amazing with the light show. But when you examine it up close, there's something phoned in about it."
> — **Scott Larson**, topper discussion
> _Critical assessment of Jurassic Park topper as aesthetically impressive but lacking depth compared to Attack from Mars topper_

> "I feel like if we had jumped on it sooner, then we could have had him able to tell his story."
> — **Josh Roop**, Steve Epstein discussion
> _Regret about not conducting interview with Steve Epstein before his death_

> "Rest in peace Steve. Everything he's done for pinball. There is a big regret that we were never able to get him on."
> — **Josh Roop**, tribute section
> _Emotional reflection on missed opportunity to interview legendary figure_

> "I am that guy who loves that kind of stuff and i'm willing to pay for it while knowing that it doesn't really interact with the gameplay it's an emotion it's an emotional purchase"
> — **Josh Roop**, topper economics discussion
> _Acknowledges personal purchasing behavior driven by emotional attachment rather than gameplay value_

> "I don't feel that that's how Jurassic Park was. I feel that Jurassic Park was more of a, hey, what else can we do to throw this on?"
> — **Scott Larson**, topper comparison
> _Suggests Jurassic Park topper was less carefully designed than licensing-constrained Star Wars topper_

> "father time is undefeated and rest in peace"
> — **Josh Roop**, Steve Epstein tribute
> _Closing reflection on mortality and Steve Epstein's legacy_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Loser Kid Pinball Podcast | media | Long-running independent pinball podcast hosted by Josh Roop and Scott Larson, known for interviews and community engagement |
| Josh Roop | person | Co-host of Loser Kid Pinball Podcast; recently moved to new house with two basements; ordered Ninja Turtles Pro edition |
| Scott Larson | person | Co-host of Loser Kid Pinball Podcast; ordered Ninja Turtles Premium edition; collector of translites and toppers |
| Steve Epstein | person | Legendary figure in pinball history; recently deceased; was scheduled to be interviewed by Loser Kid but passed away before recording |
| Zach Many | person | Owner/operator of Flippin' Out Pinball; distributor for Josh and Scott's Ninja Turtles machine orders |
| Brad Hunter | person | Runs LitFrames.com; sells illuminated lit frames including TNA Translight products |
| Brian Allen | person | Artist/designer at Flyland Designs who remakes classic Bally/Williams translites; artwork subject to theft and illegal reselling |
| Christopher Franchi | person | Artist at Spooky Pinball; victim of artwork theft and illegal reselling; known for distinctive artwork |
| Steve Hill | person | First-time pinball buyer who purchased Josh Roop's Monster Bash LE for $7,600; podcast host of PDGA Radio (disc golf) |
| Flippin' Out Pinball | company | Pinball distributor and retailer owned by Zach Many; serves as distributor for Ninja Turtles machines |
| Stern Pinball | company | Major pinball manufacturer producing Ninja Turtles, Jurassic Park, and other titles; creating toppers and accessories |
| Ninja Turtles pinball | product | Recent Stern release in high demand; Josh ordered Pro edition, Scott ordered Premium edition |
| Jurassic Park topper | product | Stern topper released recently; priced at $600; sold out in approximately four hours; features light show integration |
| Roger Sharp | person | Industry figure; suggested Steve Epstein as interview guest; was interviewed by Loser Kid for two-part episode |
| Jeff Teolis | person | Host of Pinball Profile and Final Round podcasts; conducted extensive interviews with Steve Epstein before his death |
| Dennis Creasel | person | Pinball Show host; analyzed Jurassic Park topper pricing and production; praised by hosts for rational analysis |
| Flyland Designs | company | Company specializing in remade classic translites for Bally/Williams era pinball machines; produces Medieval Madness and Monster Bash translites |
| Mrs. Pin | person | Third-grade teacher, pinball podcaster, and owner of craft store; created custom keychains and earrings for Loser Kid merchandise |
| Monster Bash LE | product | Pinball machine sold by Josh Roop for $7,600; received as gift from CGC Games |
| Attack from Mars topper | product | CGC Games topper praised as high-quality 3D sculpture; compared favorably to Jurassic Park topper by hosts |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Pinball machine sales and transactions, Pinball toppers and accessory pricing, Stern Pinball production and distribution, Community relationships and vendor appreciation, Steve Epstein legacy and tribute
- **Secondary:** Artwork theft and counterfeiting in pinball, Collector psychology and emotional purchasing, CGC Games vs Stern Games comparison

### Sentiment

**Mixed** (0.65) — Positive tone regarding personal updates, community relationships, and appreciation for vendors. Nostalgic and melancholic regarding Steve Epstein's death. Critical but accepting of Stern's topper pricing and design decisions. Constructive complaints about supply constraints and missing 3D elements on Jurassic Park topper.

### Signals

- **[business_signal]** Stern potentially undersupplying popular topper and accessory products relative to demand; hosts suggest outsourcing could solve capacity issues (confidence: medium) — Scott suggests Stern could easily outsource topper/knob/translite production to dedicated team; questions why they don't given consistent sellouts and high secondary market prices
- **[event_signal]** Steve Epstein's death and legacy as major community event; Jeff Teolis documented his interviews on Pinball Profile and Final Round podcasts (confidence: high) — Entire segment dedicated to Steve Epstein's passing; Josh describes having him lined up for interview through Roger Sharp's recommendation
- **[community_signal]** Loser Kid Podcast hosts recognize and support artisans and vendors including Brad Hunter (LitFrames), Zach Many (Flippin' Out Pinball), Brian Allen (Flyland Designs) (confidence: high) — Extended shout-outs to multiple vendors; hosts describe strong relationships and appreciation for customer service
- **[competitive_signal]** CGC Games (Bally remakes) perceived as offering superior LE packages compared to Stern, with toppers included as standard (confidence: medium) — Scott notes CGC LEs include topper, mirror blades, and other extras; contrasts his Attack from Mars LE ($8,300) with comparable Stern offerings
- **[product_concern]** Artwork theft and counterfeiting issue affecting pinball artists; fake products undercut legitimate artists on price and quality (confidence: high) — Scott warns against buying stolen artwork from Facebook resellers; cites incident where Christopher Franchi expressed anger on Super Awesome Pinball Show about print theft
- **[design_philosophy]** Jurassic Park topper criticized as lacking 3D sculptural elements compared to Attack from Mars topper; appears to be existing game artwork cut out and layered rather than new creation (confidence: high) — Scott states 'it feels like something phoned in about it' and 'It's the existing art package that is cut out and layered and lit'; wishes for 3D sculpt like Medieval Madness topper
- **[market_signal]** Strong secondary market demand for premium pinball toppers and accessories; willingness to pay significant prices for cosmetic enhancements despite limited gameplay impact (confidence: high) — Josh acknowledges paying premium prices for Jurassic Park, Beatles, and Black Knight toppers; describes himself as 'topper junkie' despite knowing they don't affect gameplay
- **[personnel_signal]** Roger Sharp actively recommends guest appearances and maintains relationships with other industry figures like Steve Epstein (confidence: medium) — Roger Sharp suggested Steve Epstein to hosts for interview; described as 'wonderful man' who helped facilitate connection
- **[market_signal]** Jurassic Park topper priced at $600, one of the highest Stern topper prices; tied to layered plastic construction (confidence: high) — Scott mentions only Star Wars topper ($700) is more expensive; Dennis Creasel analysis cited regarding $200 price premium vs similar toppers
- **[announcement]** Jurassic Park topper officially released by Stern at $600 price point with light show integration (confidence: high) — Josh states he already purchased and installed Jurassic Park topper; sold out in four hours
- **[product_strategy]** Ninja Turtles machines in staggered production with LE units expected before Pro units; Josh expecting Pro delivery in next 2-4 weeks (confidence: medium) — Josh mentions hearing on Pinball Show that LEs are produced before Pros; estimated delivery within couple weeks to month
- **[supply_chain_signal]** Stern toppers consistently sell out immediately upon release (Jurassic Park sold out in 4 hours); all toppers since launch have sold out (confidence: high) — Both hosts reference rapid sellout; Scott mentions Dennis Creasel research showed every topper sold out; Jurassic Park shooter knob also on waiting list

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## Transcript

 Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. This is episode number 38. I am Josh Roop, and with me, my co-captain as always, Scott Larson. And today, before we get into it, we don't actually have a guest today, and that was actually on our own accord, because we figured, guys, the last three months, we've done nothing but interviews. And I'm like, you know what? We need to get caught up on ourselves. And so I figured now would be a great time. Let's hear and talk about our friends of the podcast. Why not, Scott? Yeah, go ahead, Josh. You start out. So we want to talk about Brad Hunter. This man is awesome. He is a friend of ours. He runs LitFrames.com. If you haven't been there, go check it out. He's running a special right now. He's got some white bordered lit frames. These things are awesome. I've got mine coming to me here soon with a TNA Translight. I'm so excited to get this hung up in my game room. Now that I actually have a game room, we'll talk about that later. And, you know, hit up Brad. He's a great guy. And Zach Many and Nicole Many of Flip N Out Pinball. I bet you that I am driving him nuts right now. I swear I'm that little kid on the family vacation that sits in the backseat. Are we there yet? Is it there yet? Is it there yet? I keep doing this to Zach. He tells me I'm okay. I swear I'm driving him up the walls, but I want my Ninja Turtles pinball machine. He's doing a fantastic job. He's answered all my questions. I just want to throw a shout out. Thank you, Zach, for dealing with me because I'm probably driving you up the walls, dude. And we have one more. Scott, you want to talk about our other friend? Yeah. So this is, you know, again, we don't really have any. The only thing that I've done with him is I've purchased from him. So this is Flyland Designs. This is Brian Allen, and he is remaking classic trans lights for the Bally Williams era. And so he did one with Monster Bash, which I bought from from Lit Frames. And it has a great illuminated. You can either set it standard or dynamic, which looks great. But I also saw his remake of Medieval Madness, and it is amazing. I bought it. I'm going to put it in my game. I just barely got it the other day and it has been great. I'm super excited about this. I'm so jealous. I know. It's so great because it's – in many ways, some of these old art things are dated and in some ways that's good. In other ways, you can say, well, what would a contemporary take on it be? And so you can basically mix and mash and find what works for your pinball machine or even just art on the wall because I don't have a Monster Bash, but I really loved his Monster Bash Translite take. And so that's why I bought that one. Yes. Well, and what was the website you told everyone to go to? It's Flyland Designs. Make sure you go there to buy his product. I don't know if any of you have heard about this but Brian Allen along with Christopher Franchi are both victims of this people steal their artwork off of Facebook whatever it is do a really terrible low rendering of the picture and then resell it online for cheaper and it undercuts the artist and it's just it's terrible for their business so please support the actual artist not the people ripping this off so if you're not going to the actual website you need to to help those people. I don't know if you heard that on Super Awesome Pinball Show, but Franchi got pretty fired up about all those prints that were just being stolen out from underneath his feet because people do that. It's sad because there's a couple of things. The artist actually pays a licensing fee to do these typically. And so they're actually investing their time and their money. And the other people, they're really selling an inferior product. And so if you really want to go to the right place, go to the place that actually has it. I also want to give one more shout out. We ordered through our production company, we ordered some key chains and earrings and I sent them to Mrs. Pin because Mrs. Pin, her second hat, as opposed to being a third grade teacher and a pinball podcaster is also crafterella and so she has one of those awesome craft stores and so she hooked me up by hooking me with uh she took all these cutouts and put them onto key chains and earrings and so if you want to rule the next uh the next get together the pinball get together um go ahead and buy these and you can hang them from anything literally literally anything i love the lions they are great people i can't wait for us to uh whether it be pin x uh pinball expo or texas pinball festival finally sit down and rub shoulders with these people go to dinner or something because the lines are fantastic they're always nice when we're messaging them um like zach many is always nice to us dennis creasel i mean we've truly made some friends in this hobby from something that started a year and a half ago is just a pet project that we decided heck let's let's do this for fun and see where it goes, you know? Right. So anyway, so enough about us, let's talk more about us. So, so, uh, what's new in your pinball life, Josh? So I don't know if I mentioned this, I did sell monster bash, my L E so sad. And I don't know about your chain of events when you sell something, but I try to sell locally first when that doesn't work. I tried to sell a little more broad but still locally and when that doesn't work i finally go to pin side and the reason being is this i've had one bad bad transaction via pin side i still got my money but the gentleman buying the pinball machine was just a nightmare this i i finally had to go to pin side and put monster bash on there i was i was biting my nails i was not excited at all about it and i get a bite within like two days and that never happens i swear the pinball machine always sits on pin side for weeks on end and then you got a bunch of people trying to lowball you because it's been on there for three weeks gentleman hits me up gentleman by the name of steve hill i can use his actual name because he has his own podcast that has nothing to do with pinball it's called uh the professional oh crap it's not called the professional not not the the professional oh crap no it's not the professional crap actually it is the professional it's a professional diff disc golfers association podcast um or for short where uh the pdga radio so go check out pdga radio steve hill is a fantastic gentleman this is his very first pinball machine and i'm going to tell everyone out there if you're listening to this if you're buying or selling a pinball machine this man did it right for his first one and i'll tell you what he did right so he's messaging me the sales i sold monster bash it's not a secret for 7600 and he messages me and he says dude i want this machine but i want to make sure it's legit do you mind let me video conference you he's like i know i'm a pain in the butt but let me do it that makes me feel great no 100 that is that is actually the way to do it It's like, hey, you got FaceTime? FaceTime me right now because I guarantee you're not some scammer from middle of Eastern Europe. Exactly. And so it was wonderful. We set up a time and a date. I was able to, after technical difficulties on my end, finally got the video up and working. We were able to go through the whole pinball machine. We sat. We talked questions. We talked pinball. It was wonderful. and it was just it made the whole cell that much better he felt comfortable on his end i felt comfortable on my end i knew i wasn't dealing with a scammer he knew he wasn't dealing with a scammer and the rest of it was just it was a beautiful transaction you know you always have your hiccups with shipping it's just it is what it is it's a pain but yeah hey i'm really glad and actually ironically do you know who also has uh disc golf discs if you go to fly land design you could actually get some disc golf discs yes um but yeah it was everything went smoothly i'm the kind of person that i like to document almost every single portion of the transaction so you know i took pictures of the shipping company showing up i took pictures of them wrapping the machine i took pictures of them putting it on the truck you know when he was having a rough time with Shipping, with it being his first transaction, I intervened. I called them. I knew exactly who to call. They straightened it all out. I mean, it went as smooth as you can get for your first transaction. I think there was no better way to have done it except for the shipping company having their crap together. But, hey, I digress. But it went great. It's good. So when you're selling, especially online, you need to, one, verify that you're talking to a real person. And video chatting is actually one of the easiest, cheapest ways of doing it to figure out a way to a lot of times you can buy in an escrow situation. So a third party can actually hold the money while you ship it out. And so once that is verified that they get the machine, then they can release the money. So there's ways of doing that to make it a smooth transaction. So just keep yourself safe out there, especially right now. There's a lot of scammers out there, and there's even one of the bookmarks on Pinside, the first thing talks about how to avoid getting scammed, and there are scammers out there. Yep, exactly. So it was wonderful. I mean I've only done a couple transactions through Pinside. I've honestly personally never had an issue with scammers on Pinside. Just the one gentleman that I sold a machine to – how do I put this nicely? he was a nightmare yeah he was a nightmare to deal with um but if you get scant i'm sorry there's no quicker way of souring you on a hobby and let's be honest for 98 of us this is our this is our escape we want to make sure that we're having a positive uh a positive exposure to it but other than that i bought ninja turtles i can't wait for my pro i was listening to pinball show this morning. It sounds like they actually produce L.E.s before they produce pros. They got pros out to the locations. It sounds like they're going to run the L.E.s and then go back to pros. So I might see mine within the next couple of weeks. It might be a month. So I'm just keeping my fingers crossed. I'm excited. Everyone I've talked to, it's a wonderful game. People have played it. And so I just can't wait, man. It is a dream come true. Right. And I'm actually getting the premium. And so we talked about this before that you're getting the pro, I'm getting the premium. And so we can do a compare and contrast. And there are certainly things about a premium that I'm interested in. I also see it from a standpoint of, hey, I just want the best playing option. Sometimes that's the pro. So we'll be able to evaluate that when we both get it. I'm getting the premium, so I'm going to get mine in the end of summer. We both ordered those through Zach at Flippin' Up Pinball. He's been great to work with. Oh, and one other major thing. I don't know if I've told you this. We've moved into our new house. Oh, I didn't know that. We were originally going to build. The bank gave us the runaround. Long story short, we decided to go with a different bank. My wife and I had an impression there was a foreclosure that was bigger than what we were going to build for cheaper than we could have built. and we found this house and within three weeks we had bought it and everything went smoothly i don't i don't even have one basement i've got two basements i don't know how i ended up with that but what yeah it's kind of goofy and so uh yeah i'm stoked dude i'm stoked that uh we're in our new house that's probably why we haven't recorded in three weeks is because i've been doing nothing but moving in and it's you don't realize how much crap you have until you have to move it. Yeah. No, I'm really glad we thought about moving a few years ago and we're considering building. And then, Oh my goodness. I'm so glad I did not build because I hate moving with every fiber of my being. Yes. I do not blame you. So I'm, I'm glad we're settled. I don't see us moving from this house probably till I have to. Yeah. So no, it's good. We have settled into our house too and figured out it's, we just need to use our space better we don't need more space we just need better better utilization i know what you mean so that's been my last i don't know a couple of couple of months i thought there was something else in there that was important but uh um i dj'd a wedding wow no cool yeah and i've learned drunk people are goofy so yeah no uh did grandma have the lampshade on or uh fall down and break her hip or anything like that Okay, no, but the bridesmaid dresses were so low. It's like when you see a woman at the beach and she has the bikini that just she didn't tie tight. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. You know what? I don't have that kind of confidence. If I were wearing a Speedo that were flying that low, I would assume that something's going to pop out. So I – you know what? I like haven't helped anybody who has that much confidence. I am not that person. But I felt bad for the bride and the groom because there's this woman sitting in the background on a barstool, and she's got to be in the pictures, and her boob fell out. And so she's going to be photobombing these. You know what? It's – you will remember that forever, and she will probably remember it forever that her dress had a malfunction. Yep, and so it was just one of those nights, and so yeah. Oh, another thing I did. I actually bought – okay, Topper Talk. I actually bought the Jurassic Park topper. Topper Talk. And so I put it up, and I will do a quick evaluation of this. Okay, I love the light show. Wait, you already got it? Yeah, I got it. It's already installed. Holy crap. That came out like last week, didn't it? I know, right? So I did get it, and I installed it. And I will say absolutely the light show really does take it to the next level. I am slightly disappointed in that. I wish that it had more to it other than like a cutout of the existing art. I feel they could have done more, especially for the price. and I felt that a 3D sculpt, considering the toppers that they have come out with, like the Black Knight topper, I think is still amazing. The Beatles topper is good and the light show takes it to the next level. I felt this one was, it was great on some level, the light show and the integration, everything like that. The, I felt they could have done more in the presentation, maybe 3D sculpt or something like that. Considering I'm also getting the topper for Medieval Madness, which is a 3D-sculpted masterpiece. Yes, I totally agree. For a similar price. And so I wish that – I have conflicting feelings. I love the topper. I just wanted it to be more – it's like the Star Wars fans that there's a movie that they really want to be really good, and they watch it and they're like, yeah, it's good. I just wanted to have this as well. But I've had a blast playing it, and it really does bring that eye candy to your game room. So it's been great. Well honestly I don know if you listened to this episode but the Pinball Show did I think it episode nine or I can remember It wasn this week It was last week I think or maybe the week before when the topper actually came out And Dennis Creasel summed up exactly what I was thinking, and I didn't even know I was thinking it. I mean the only topper that's been more expensive than the Jurassic Park topper is Star Wars. Right. And so he took the fact that the way that it's the plastic that's layered, he compared it to other ones, and they're all about $200 cheaper. And so that's probably where the anger is stemming from. I'm not going to go all into it, but it was Dennis Creasel. I'm glad he's in this hobby because I feel like everything he says is very rational and very well thought out. And I felt the exact same way. Like $600 for this layered piece of topper. Obviously, I wasn't interested in it. But it's funny because we all – okay, not all of us. There are people that complain about the topper at $600, and then the topper sold out in, what, four hours? Yeah, and really, I am totally guilty of that. I am one of those guys who saw the topper, and I said, I'm just going to buy it because I thought it was – it's like for me getting the pro versus the premium. I know some people feel this way and saying sometimes I just would look at the pro and say there's something here that should be there. And whether or not it's just a mental thing or just a complete thing, I tend to be that complete collector type. So I love the topper, and I enjoy it. I wish it had a little more 3D element, but it's good. it's really good and it's a solid buy yep well and here's here's my only problem with stern i guess it's not my only problem this is the one i'm going to focus on right now in the moment um i feel like cgc does it best when you buy an le it comes with the topper it comes with some of those extras like the mirror blades and stuff like that um i know you still get extra with the stern but i mean i'm standing right next to my attack for mars i had a monster bash le I got all that for $8,300 and that was like shipped and I just don't feel like that's what comes with a Stern LE I mean I'm totally fine with a premium because I feel like I can buy the topper later I feel like the topper should come with the pinball machine on the flip side though I get it I get that the topper is an entirely different piece of artwork that has to be prove differently and the licensing around it is different whereas like cgc has you know monster bash that's been out for i don't know like 22 years now it's a little easier for them to work with the company that made it and so the topper can come out with the pinball machine stern doesn't get that i mean we saw that with we got we saw that with star wars right right and and so i i get it like i guess it comes down to stern puts out more machines more often versus cgc's making remakes i don't know that's just my beef if you gave me a stern le versus a cgc le just based on the le model i think that cgc does it better i i i would i i agree with you on one point is that they take the toppers to the next level um my counterpoint to that would be they're dealing with licenses that are almost 25 years old yes and especially with medieval madness attack from mars unlicensed so they they had carte blanche to do whatever they wanted with monster bash yes they're dealing with universal licensing but i felt that there was a little more leeway into getting that done. I think it's a little more challenging with a current license to do something like that. And so I understand that it is the high watermark on difficulties of dealing with a license is the Star Wars R2-D2 topper. And I would argue that it's one of the it's one of the underwhelming toppers. where you look at it and you're thinking, wow, that's 700. If you really love Star Wars, that's your baby. It didn't feel that to me, but I also felt that they were put between a rock and a hard place because of the licensing agreement. I don't feel that that's how Jurassic Park was. I feel that Jurassic Park was more of a, hey, what else can we do to throw this on? And it feels very much like a – how can I say this without sounding insulting? You're not going to. Just do it. Just do it. Okay. It feels like something in a casino. Yeah. It feels like a – this is on top of a slot machine where it is eye-popping. It's attention-grabbing. It is amazing with the light show. But when you examine it up close, there's something phoned in about it. And that it was – it's their existing art package. There's nothing new in the topper. It's the existing art package that is cut out and layered and lit. So I didn't feel there was as much involved in this topper as there was in Attack from Mars topper. But again, you can – if you really wanted to go to a third party, you could get a third party. And that's your baby. Do it. I just wanted to have the entire light show integration. And maybe that's what I'm putting a premium on. I'm putting a premium on the coding integration of the light show because my Simpsons pinball party has a topper, but it has nothing to do with the light show integration. That's true. Now that I think about that topper, it's just Bart with a slingshot, right? And it's got the family behind it. It's a cool topper. I like the topper, but there's nothing that interacts with the gameplay. So it depends on what you're prioritizing. I wish that Stern had done more, but you can always find that, right? You can find something that you're like, I like this. I would improve it this way. Well, and here's my one last complaint or suggestion to Stern maybe. If you're going to make these things, make more of them. Like they're obviously selling out. Like the Jurassic Park topper, like we said, four hours. When Dennis did his research, every single topper has sold out since they started making these for these games. And you're on the waiting list for the shooter knob for Jurassic Park. Right. And these are some things that they could easily outsource. I agree. I love that Stern takes pride in assembling things in the United States. We all know that most of these products are – the parts are manufactured overseas. Well, and you can't tell me that you could obviously create a very small team that would be over specifically toppers, shooter knobs, translights, art blades, all that stuff. And I guarantee it would pay for – I can't guarantee. I don't know. I'd have to see the numbers, and I know Stern's not going to give us those. Right. But I feel like you could create a team and start just pumping these babies out. And maybe there's not enough product to justify it. But still, I mean, people are paying outrageous numbers for a Ghostbusters topper, for a Beatles topper. I just don't understand why there isn't more of this produced if there's such a high demand. Well, I feel it's because it's a new market for them. So I don't feel that it's fully developed. I envision this in the future that maybe they are moving more onto it. I'm a little surprised that the Black Knight topper seemed to have taken it to a new level. And this feels a little bit like a regression. A little bit, yeah. But still good. It's just different. It seems like it's interactive with the game but on an easier level. So my question to you is, let's say, because this topper obviously has what people are calling the DLC, the downloadable content. Do you feel like if they would have said that this topper was $500, because that's still more than the toppers that they've made that are similar, but it's still less than some of their others. Do you think it would have justified the price point? uh well maybe i i will say that i i did overpay for it uh when you look at you know the the 600 package versus what else you could do however you could argue that you overpay for everything that is not stock you can argue that you're overpaying for invisible glass you're you can argue that you're overpaying for a shooter nod you're arguing that i'm going to a mod company and overpaying for a plastic car that goes in the in the game for 80 bucks yeah and so every additional add-on you can argue it doesn't justify the cost because it doesn't have the same bang for the game play interactivity that the game does itself that's true so is the is the the candy the eye candy topper that's 10 of what the the game is does that justify the cost well i would argue that it doesn't have the same justification for cost because i'm not interacting with that but i still bought it and so yes it does justify the cost because i am willing to dress up my machine that way. But you can argue the same thing with cars. If you want to pay for the red leather stitching in your car, you can pay for it, but you're going to pay for it. Does the red leather stitching versus the standard black stitching do anything? Absolutely not. I agree. So. But that being said, I don't regret it. I love it. And I actually just bought a Beatles topper because I'm planning on buying a Beatles down the road. So, okay. I'm the guy who loves that kind of stuff and i'm willing to pay for it while knowing that it doesn't really interact with the gameplay it's an emotion it's an emotional purchase i pinball is an emotional i go down to my game room and i turn on the games because it makes me happy dude i've got to say though i think i think zach made a smart move by persuading you to to him being your distributor because like you we're sitting there on the messages you're telling me you just got a beetle topper and then you're like uh in the messages you're like oh i want a black knight topper i'm like zach or scott you don't even have a black knight i'll just get one locally it's like yeah i know but there there is a black knight that we both know is is floating around and i would love to see that pro black knight with the topper i i prefer the pro play to the yeah i i totally get it so i am that guy i'm the guy who will pay for something. But you have to argue the market dictates the price. It's very true. Yes. If they put out the topper for $600 and it didn't sell out, then that is saying that it's overpriced. If they put out the topper and they sell out of the supply, then absolutely. Now, you can go back to economics, supply and demand. If the supply is bigger, the demand, it'll ultimately overwhelm the demand. But right now, they haven't been doing that. Yeah, no, I agree. So, yeah, I, I, I am a topper junkie. I totally get that. I, and I love toppers slap the vein, put it straight in. Yeah, yeah, no, I, Hey, I'm that guy and that's fine. I, I accept, I, I, I know myself, that's who it is. Well, let's, let's move on to the list that we have here. Um, let's, let's talk about something that big that happened in the last couple of weeks you know uh i i want to say this very sober you know steve epstein passing i don't know it's very shocking to me i guess i guess it's shocking to us because what you guys don't know is we had steve lined up to come on and do an interview he was after we did this the roger sharp episode uh we got really talking to roger and roger said you know you should have steve on steve's a wonderful man i i would love for you guys to have him on and we agreed we we said hey let's do it and i don't know it's it's just it's weird scott like this is a man that we're starting to get to know and he's a fantastic man and jeff teal has done a fantastic job listen to pinball profile listen to final round he's done a wonderful job memorializing this gentleman and i feel like we didn't get to meet the man that that is a legend in this hobby uh like everyone else did so you know rest in peace steve so i feel like it was uh it was one of those things the timing was just not on our side and i totally get that and really roger probably was unaware of how sick he was at the time um because he mentioned to us he's like hey why don't you why don't you contact him and we had a few interviews lined up and so in my thought was hey this will be a great interview in two months yes and so i was trying to line that up and when i saw the post that hey steve's sick and not only is steve sick he is gravely sick yeah um and they actually they said send out messages to him and they sent his, his cell phone number. And I actually texted his cell phone number. I didn't want to call him because I know that sometimes when you're really sick, you just don't have the energy. And I said, Hey, you know, we just heard we were pulling for you. We wish you all the best. And if you ever feel like you, you are strong enough to come on the show, we'd love to have you on. And he texted back. He's like, I would love to as if I can get the energy. And that, that was one week before he died. Yeah. And so I feel that part of me says, man, if we had jumped on it sooner, then we could have had him able to tell his story. I'm, I'm with you. I'm so glad that Teolis was able to do that. And in many ways, better than, than we could have done it and being able to bring out Steve, he's known, uh, Steven. And And in many ways, I'm happy that Steve has been able to see the resurrection of pinball because most of us have in our mind special when lit that documentary that seems to more poke fun at pinball and the death of pinball. And it's a it's a sad commentary on Steve just because Steve feels like the plug has been pulled on his lifelong passion. So in many ways, I would like to have heard how he has enjoyed the resurgence of pinball over the last 10 years. I agree. But yes, absolutely. Rest in peace. Everything he's done for pinball. There is a big regret that we were never able to get him on. It was our every intention of getting him on. We were in the process of doing it. But, you know, father time is undefeated and rest in peace. speaking in interviews let recap the last it almost been three months yeah yeah we went interview crazy but these are things that we wanted to talk about Yeah. And that's what makes for a good episode is when you actually have things. You're like, I don't know enough about this. I want to talk to that person. I agree. Well, I just want to go through this list really quick. We had Dwight Sullivan on doing Ninja Turtles. We had Josh Kukla with Hot Wheels, Doug Polka with Pinberg, Zach Sharp with Everything Zach, Josh Sharpe with Everything Josh, and Roger Sharp with Everything Roger. And that was two episodes. It just wasn't one. And then the one I really want to point out that we had a lot of great feedback on was the Jeff Rivera episode that kind of started it all before COVID happened. Well, I guess it started happening because he explained that he thought he gave Donovan Mitchell the Utah Jazz COVID. I can't remember if he said that on the podcast. I think he did say that on the podcast. It was before. But yes, we were talking on the side and he mentioned that he was at a Denny's or something with a kid who loved Donovan Mitchell. He saw Donovan Mitchell walked in. So he walked up to Donovan and said, hey, this kid's a big fan. I think he even had a Donovan Mitchell shirt. So it was the kid's birthday. They were IHOP. Yeah, that's right. But it was a breath of fresh air because Jeff talked about mental health and getting yourself taken care of. If you haven't listened to that episode, I do recommend going back. If there's someone that comes to mind when we talk about mental health, Jeff had some wonderful insight on that episode. It's been well-received. I mean, we've had over 1,000 listens on it. It's the end of March, beginning of April. Check it out. It's a great, great interview. on top of all the other interviews. I thought COVID would stop our numbers. And if anything, our numbers keep going up and up. And I can't complain. I'm glad people are listening. Obviously, someone wants to hear something we're saying, right? I think people want to have some sort of normalcy in life. Obviously, we're all dealing with some very major issues, some life-altering issues, whether it be financial, whether it be social, whether it be physical, health-wise. I think we all want to go to, you know, we want an escape. And I, we appreciate that we've been able to provide that for some people because this podcast is also an escape for us. Exactly. And that I haven't been working as much. I work at a hospital and this has been drastically affecting our day-to-day work. But Josh, you have, you have issues too, that you're trying to deal with just to deal with health of your employees. and everything. And we all know that this is going on in life. And we know that not only COVID, but also the social justice things that have been going on. And we are aware of them. We're supporting positive change everywhere. And we also recognize that sometimes people just want to talk about pinball and sometimes people just want an escape. So they're not dealing with the heavy things about life. Sometimes they want an escape to something lighter. Well, and I've got to say, you know, there's some other podcasts that have developed deep into our social issues with our, our physical issues. And I applaud you guys. That is awesome. When you do that, that's just not us. I know that, you know, we've had people approach us, say, Hey, you need to give your stance on this. And Scott and I have always given our stance of, you know, we love our wives. We think women are fantastic. You know, we support them and what they do. Um, we, we believe that you should be judged off your character, not off your skin color, race, religion, you know, it just, so if, if, if you want to know our stance, that's always what it's going to be. I mean, we, we believe those things. And so other than that, we want to talk pinball because that's what we're here for. Right. Right. My attitude is, So the best way to incorporate people is to bring more seats to the table, make the table bigger. Yes. Let's try not to take away a seat to give a seat to someone else. Let's try to expand the seats. And so there is a place for everybody, regardless of who you are genetically, physically, socially, sexually, anything like that. We want to make sure that pinball is a way that you can have a positive experience in your life. And I don't really like dealing with the divisive nature that sometimes people use as a weapon in a hobby that I think should be something very promoting. Obviously, we're going to talk about behavior that we don't feel is inclusive. but I also want to make sure everybody feels that there is a spot for them. I agree. So that's our stance. I don't see it changing anytime soon. So if another issue comes up and you wonder what the loser kids are thinking, it's probably that. There's space for everybody and don't be an eggplant. Exactly. Oh, it always makes me chuckle when you send the eggplant emoji. Well, okay, but it's usually like, come on. Like, let's be nice to people. Let's stop it. You know, it's everybody, you know, just stop playing. I know. Just drop the mic. You're like, boom. Yeah, I know there's real issues and I truly do. I'm not I understand that there's there's strong issues that people feel about and on both sides. And I have friends on both sides of the issue. And I try to focus on what are the things that we have in common and also recognize that, yes, there are some toxic elements that I'm not going to support. But I'm trying to look past those and say, let's let's focus on the things that we can build upon. And maybe there's times that people will evolve. Their views on society will evolve. They will be more accepting for people and some people. It's a light switch. other people it's a pickling process where it takes a while to change uh years of entrenched attitudes and those attitudes i disagree with they're wrong in my book and i would like them to change them but sometimes it takes time well and just like abraham lincoln said you know uh a house divided cannot stand and so let's work on getting rid of those division lines wherever they may be. You don't have to have the same opinion. You don't have to agree upon everything. But if you respect each other, regardless of what the issue is, I've always been the firm believer. I don't want a bunch of yes men surrounding me because nothing's ever going to evolve. And so I want to hear a differing opinion because you know, we need to learn and we're going to only be able to do it if we step out of our comfort zones. So thank you to those podcasts that have stepped up, that have had those discussions because it's been awesome. So especially in what I would consider a positive way. Yes. So especially, uh, our friend at the back, backbox pinball podcast, if you haven't checked that episode out, uh, it's been an episode or two, just go check it out. So, um, really quickly, let's see what else we got on this heavy metal. We haven't even talked about heavy metal. Uh, so i mean josh what are your feelings about heavy metal this is this is something that just kind of has as sneaked snuck what was that uh it has gone under the radar uh with everything else that's been going on in life okay so are you are you buying a heavy metal pinball machine and putting it in your basement half naked women on pinball machines don't go over well in my house uh here's Here's my honest opinion about this production line. The Star Wars home pin, the heavy metal, the – what other one has come out recently that's the same layout? You know what I'm talking about, right? Spider-Man. Spider-Man was the same way and Supreme was the same way. Correct. The cheaper model that is, what, only $1,000 cheaper or whatever. I have never put my hand on one of these. I've never touched a Star Wars. I've never touched a heavy metal. I've never touched a yada, yada, yada. I have really good friends that get to play almost every single pinball machine. And when Star Wars, the pin came out, I asked them, I said, hey, I know you've played this. Tell me about it. And they flat out said, hey, they feel cheap. they feel they're very light they they don't feel quality at all and so they kind of warned me like they're not made for us and that's probably a good thing because i don't think the community at large would be happy with this product um i guess it's one of those you get what you pay for i'm not huge into heavy metal it's cool that they've got like blue oyster colt and some of those other bands from the 80s artwork looks good but i just i don't know that never appeals to me i don't i don't i want to say sorry but i'm not sorry so sorry not sorry you know i i'll say that this is like uh the car line like there are car and this was when i was deciding between the pro the premium, I was asking a few of my buddies in pinball and they said, Scott, you're a premium guy. And I said, really, why do you say that? And it's like, when you buy a car, you get the leather seats, you get the Antonio Cruz control, you get the upgraded version because that is important to you. Now, that may not be important for everybody, but that's important to you. And so I get that this is not for me. When you go into a game room shop, you're going to see a big line of things, whether or not it's a $10,000 billiard table or $2,000 billiard table. Guess what? My brother is the $2,000 billiard table type. He actually may be the $500 billiard table type. That's him. And that's not saying that he's cheap. That's just saying that that's the budget that he is interested in spending on that particular product yeah so for games like this i still think there's a market for it i still think there's a good place for them and if someone's really into the theme of heavy metal it's a very niche theme it's the same thing as like primus it's the same thing as supreme and you're and i know you're talking different extremes for what people are willing to spend but is this machine that has a different art package and it caters to the heavy metal brand versus the supreme brand and ask yourself which one would you rather have because the bottom line is it's the same type of game but one is felt to be a collector's issue and a collector's item so that's why people will spend twenty thousand dollars on it versus others that people will spend $4,000 on it. So I will continue to say it's still fun. It's still pinball. It's probably not for me, but I can see a guy or a girl who's interested in having a game room and saying, well, that's the budget I have for a pinball machine. So that's what I'm going to buy. I agree. And it's still a new one box. And so you don't have to buy something and then either figure out how to fix it or or uh you know hire someone to come and do it this is fine it's it is that type of market and i still think it's a positive thing uh the theme is absolutely not for me but not every theme is it i just find it funny because the community is like pinball needs to be cheaper pinball needs to be cheaper well they found you an answer and uh we're like no we don't want that but we still want cheaper okay legitimately no podcaster's gonna want this yeah like nobody who's really seriously on the pin side is gonna want this however everybody knows someone who's like hey i'm interested i mean i'm interested in pinball and what's the second question they say when they say oh hey you have pinball machines what's the second question they always say how much are they how much are they yeah and so this is this is that market for someone, if you tell someone, Hey, a new inbox pinball machine is $5,800. They're going to choke. Some people it's like, well, maybe 4,500 is a more acceptable thing. And guess what? A lot of people have no idea about the code. Yeah. They really don't. They just want to flip a ball. This fits that role. Okay. So this brings up another question in my mind. We posted this to the loser kid page um zen studios has worked with one up arcade to bring out a new marvel virtual pinball machine i know virtual people cringe but it's 500 bucks or is it 600 sorry it's it's in that range though i mean that's we're under a thousand yeah and it includes like 10 12 tables and granted they're all the zen cast all the zen studio pinball machines you can get on your phone but maybe you could reverse engineer it or something and also get the zen studio williams games is that something that is perfectly feasible even for collectors like us what do you think okay so i'm gonna flip this a different way and i already know the answer to this okay okay are you an arcade snob me yeah like arcade machines yeah i guess no i don't know i really like my pinball machines yeah okay so let's just say there was a theme that you really liked and you identified with in the 90s that came out in a cheaper version that was maybe a four-player game that you could put in your basement for for 350 would you buy it yes hands down i was on the pre-order list for teenage mutant ninja turtles okay so an arcade snob so someone who runs an arcade podcast is going to crucify anybody who will slum it with a one with an arcade one-up machine but guess what you and i both have one yep well you can justify i mean it's 350 bucks Okay, so there's a price point where it's justified. But there are people who are out there who it's the same thing for a pinball machine. Hey, I don't really care if it's not a Bally Williams from the 90s. I just want a game to flip, and this is a new game, and so I'll get it. Well, but what's crazy to me is this is $600, and the thing actually has responsive – Yeah. There's HEPA feedback for the buttons. You can nudge it. Yeah. And you can nudge it. And so for $600, yeah, it's not the actual thing, but $600. Hey, if I had a cabin up in the woods, I wouldn't want a real pinball machine because if it breaks down, that's a pain in the rump to fix. But this thing, yeah, sure, I'll throw a $600 thing up there. It would be great. Okay. Here's the true question. And maybe I'm not asking this to you, Scott, but those in our audience, would you prefer a Jurassic Park topper or would you prefer a virtual pinball machine that comes with 10 tables? Just saying. Yeah. Hey, it's legitimate to ask those questions. I think this is a great idea if it sells out and sells well I wouldn be shocked if they come out with a williams version of this maybe i i seen people who have those type of things uh i for me it still doesn't feel as much like pinball and so it doesn't scratch that itch for me but everybody has that itch to scratch and you have to decide what the itch is i agree well and some of these tables are fantastic i don't know if you've ever played infinity gauntlet by zen studios it is genius yeah i mean some of those zen ones are great i mean they're they're fun and that one's in this pinball machine like i wish they could make that infinity gauntlet into a pinball machine but it's not physically possible because like each gem like there's the mind gem or no sorry the soul gem when you go into the soul gem to to obtain it it sucks you into the soul world and you've got a different mini game you've got to play in the soul world and complete it before you go back to the real world. And so it's just really cool little nuances like that. And so that's why I'm like, I'm actually considering buying this thing because, heck, it's $600 and these machines I know that will never be made physically because you can't. This is as close as you're going to get to physical without actually making the game. Okay, what about this thing with the Zen Star Wars games? Because I would take the Empire Strikes Back Star Wars game that they have in Zen Studio, and I wish they would make that a physical one. I know they can't do the exact same thing, but man, that would be a great game. No, I agree. So I just, I think that we kind of, like, I haven't heard anything about this. I'm like, this should get a lot more credit than what people, there's, I mean, we've had a conversation on our Facebook page with it, but I haven't really seen much besides that. Granted, I don't go on pinside um okay i go on pinside i see uh but it's it it just feels like there's a niche for a lot of different markets and i think there is a niche for this one there's a niche for the virtual um and whether or not you feel it's for you that's fine not every band is for you either yeah true so um let's hit a couple more things on this list before we before we sign off oh So Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti), a.k.a. Zombie Yeti, he was on Super Awesome Pinball Show. They did the first interview. If you haven't listened to it, it's fantastic. I just want to say really quickly, Jeremy, you're more than welcome to come on our show, and we won't call you an egomaniac if you don't. He claimed that's why he doesn't do podcasts anymore for pinballs because, I guess, something to do with Deadpool. Just go listen to it. I'm not going to quote it verbatim here because I want it to come out of his lips. So go listen to it if you haven't already. Yeah, another. Yeah. And Jeremy, if you're willing to come on, we'd love to talk to you. We love to talk about all things pinball. Art is a big thing, a selling feature for pinball. And you certainly have a talent for it. Second thing is we have the Deep Root update. So Deep Root has really gotten crushed a few times with them trying to do this massive launch. But they've decided instead to bring it more in-house and do, I would say, a similar reveal as to what Stern is doing. So they'll be able to do a controlled reveal and just say, hey, this is what's going on. Obviously, in life in the time of COVID, it's pretty hard to do a mega reveal. And I think this will actually play to their advantage. um they can take a take a lesson from stern and how to reveal a game do a teaser show the artwork and then have a gameplay and i think that will actually do much better for them than to try to go for a big reveal what do you think josh i i think that's what it is to a t i mean that's kind of what they put on their website so i don't know i i just feel bad because i feel like every time they've attempted something uh life has been like no so i'm just i'm ready i'm rooting for deep root i think if they're if they're bringing in the innovation that they've claimed that they're bringing to the table bring it i want to see it yeah i'm curious i i want to see what you have so uh kate martin joined mrs pin i i'm sorry i can't remember which podcast it was but she talked about the next two Keith Elwin games, Kate Martin did, are actually going to have the exact same artist on both. I guess he's going to be working, he or she is going to be working both. They didn't say who the artist was, but I guess whenever Keith's third game comes out, we will know that the artist on that is also the game for, or the artist for number four. So, right. And if you're not familiar with Kate, she's a friend of the show. She helps coordinate Bells and Chimes in New York. And so if you're ever in New York, works at the Buttermilk Bar, she always sends some funny updates. And so drop in and play some pinball and say hi. I agree. Did you know, fan of the show, Stephen Haberman, Haberman? I'm sorry. He sent us a scoop. And I want to talk about this because I think this is really, really cool. so um marcus graham i don't know if that name means anything to anyone out there but this gentleman is the director of community and education at twitch why should you care well he is dj wheat on pin side and he said he's in for a tmnt le this is his first turn premium and his third Dwight game he owns a monsters black and white and a whodunit or his other two this theme Ninja Turtles comes true for me and I expect it to get a ton of play with my friends and family especially with various modes that is awesome that okay first off Twitch is the biggest platform for video game and pinball streaming hands down like Mixer has nothing on it let's just say that's what it is right and here you've got the director of twitch saying hey i buy pinball machines i think this is a step in the right direction i mean we always talk about how we can expand pinball here you go like i don't know if jack danger has something to do with it or if dj wheat has always just been in the hobby but this is freaking awesome like how can we how can we expand upon this yeah i i think it's good obviously when you're bringing in new interest um even like kim kardashian having a pinball machine uh you're going to get more eyeballs you're going to get more people interested and just so you know uh steven haberman his twitch channel is habermania and so go ahead and check that out he's a good friend of the show too heck yes um that pretty much wraps it up for our list besides talking about a good old friend ken cromwell if you haven't checked it out he is now the communication director over at jjp and he started up the jjp podcast and so if you haven't listened to it uh he's released two episodes already the interesting one i thought uh that they put out there one of the owners i didn't know this guy owned uh jjp but he talked about how the myth of jjp never makes any money and he said they've been making like 25% profit every year for like the last three or four years. So obviously whatever they've changed in the last four years is doing very well for them. And they said they're getting close to breaking even, which is very impressive. I know that Zach over on the pinball shows like, well, that's weird. That makes no sense. But if you think about it, they've paid to make a production line, which that isn't cheap. They've paid for two manufacturers. They've played for a manufacturing place in Chicago and a development place in New Jersey. That can't be cheap. I think people don't realize there's a lot of overhead. And so you just don't make money day one. You've got to overcome buying stuff to make the company. And it sounds like they've got a bright, bright future, and JJP does. I can't wait to see their next product. Yeah, most people don't realize when you start up a company, the expected time to actually start making money is roughly five years. and so if you really want to um see how long that takes just go back and look at the history of amazon and yes everybody wants to be jeff bezos now with uh the mega billions he has however it just go back 15 16 17 years and watch the development of amazon and it was a struggle to get that off the ground and that concept. And basically he was just redoing the Sears Robux catalog that happened 200 years ago, but he was doing it in an online fashion. And yes, now we know how that has worked out, but it took him a while to even break even. And so that's not unusual for this. And so a big shout out to JJP for moving on. And again, more pinballs better. Yep. Before we end things, I know you've got your Lord of the Rings story you want to tell us. Yeah. So this probably means nothing to anybody else except me. When I started getting into pinball, I've told the story before. I just bought the Simpsons pinball party on a whim, and it was 100% due to theme, and I knew nothing about pinball. And I had it because I didn't realize that there were actually modes and rules, and I had no idea how to buy it, how to play it. And so I started looking – I don't know, maybe a year or two later, I started saying, huh, maybe I can look at something else. And I saw someone who was selling a Pirates of the Caribbean, a Stern one. And I talked back and forth with him, and I just felt it's a little more than I want to pay, but – and it was actually a decent price, by the way. But this is what happens when you first start getting into pinball. Long story short, I asked this guy – well, long story long anyway. I asked this guy what he was interested in because I knew he sold it and he said, well, I was looking for a Lord of the Rings. So on our classifieds in Utah, I had seen one of a Lord of the Rings and I screenshot it. I sent it to him and I said, hey, you may be interested in this. And of course, later I thought, huh, well, that's kind of dumb. Maybe I was interested in this. But I passed him the lead and he went and checked it out. And it was a lady who was divorced and she obviously had the pinball machine that she got in the divorce and she was trying to sell it on. He said, look, let me just tell you, this is the range. And he was very honest with her. This is the range of what the games go for. If you have someone come and clean it up and get it all tuned up, this is what it's going for. I'm willing to spend this and I'll go and do all that stuff. So he bought that. and I talked to him about it and he said, but she also has a Spider-Man. And so I went over and I bought the Spider-Man from her and same thing. I said, look, I can fix it up. I can do all that. Or you can call the local guy, Ray, and he's willing to come out and he'll go and tune it up for you. It'll cost you this amount, but I'm willing to do that if you just don't want to hassle that. So I bought Spider-Man, but I told him, I said, if you ever decided to sell Lord of rings let me know and i was a little surprised because two weeks ago he messaged me and he said hey um i'm gonna be selling over the rings and so i have really wanted one for a long time so i actually said okay so i went there tonight and uh went and played it and he's done some great upgrades to it he's actually upgraded it to the le rom and he has uh you know changed all the lights, put a few awesome mods in it. And I, I walked away from it and I said, thank you so much. I really appreciate you contacting me. But, uh, in the time that I've been in the, in the, you know, in the hobby, I guess I've met a few, few more friends. And one of my best friends is one of my partners in anesthesia and he actually has lower the rings and we've started to view our collection is more of a a group collection yeah and he has an le lord of the rings which is amazing and it's it's beautiful and i i thought you know if i were to buy this lord of the rings i would have to sell something that's unique and even though we have uh like he has nine games i have uh 13 games he's the one who sold me jurassic park by the way um we only have two that overlap We both have Attack from Mars and we both have Medieval Madness. And I felt that I would be sacrificing a unique game to have a duplicate of a game. And so I don't know how you feel about this, but my attitude is as long as I have access to games, I would rather have more of a variety than having everybody have the same thing. And maybe this is a step of maturity for me in the hobby in that I no longer view that I have to have every game. That's very impressive. So – and to buy Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, I'm actually selling one of my favorite games. I'm selling Iron Man, which I love. It's a beautiful Iron Man. I don't think you'll ever find a prettier one that's very customized. But another mutual friend who is interested in it, he said he wanted to buy it. And I said, OK, well, I can sell that and I can get Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and it will be a way that we can start rotating the collection and having fun. And I've gotten over the point where I have to beat every game. Like I don't know if I'll ever get to the wizard mode on every game. But I've at least had four years of playing this game and enjoying it. So it's time to move on. Nice. Well, if you need someone to pin sit Lord of the Rings. Well, you can buy it. I have his contact. All right. May I have to do that? Yeah. That'd be awesome. But yeah, well, I'll have to talk to you about that after. Okay. Sounds good. it's a beautiful game so awesome well that brings us to the end of our episode scott um you know we have people lined up to come in i just wanted to like i said it's been forever we're just you and i talking and and this was cool this is good tonight because it's really weird to not talk about what we've done in pinball and that's kind of the whole point of the show well usually we still have these conversations they just have have not been online so true true But, man, yeah, I don't know how to end this. Well, as always, check us out. We are typically on Facebook, occasionally on Instagram, and rarely on Twitter. Certainly, if you're listening to iTunes, please leave us a review because that certainly helps our visibility. And please be nice to each other, share some pinball, and try to bring more people to the hobby. couldn't agree more so and how can how can they reach us if they want to reach out to us josh uh if you want to hit us up you can hit us at facebook uh just send us a dm um or at loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com honestly no one ever sends us emails that way because the name is entirely too long to remember for for the gmail but seriously like hit us up on Facebook. We love to chat. Um, we have, we always have some conversations going on and it's, it's always great to be talking to people in the community. So, yeah. Anyway, thanks for listening and, uh, check us out in a week or two. You know what? Bye.

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 9c4c212a-36de-466f-99ee-db8161ac18ca*