# DPP #129 "Toppers, Taxes, and Tanlines" **Source:** Don's Pinball Podcast (regular feed) **Type:** podcast_episode **Published:** 2024-06-18 **Duration:** 38m 45s **Beat:** Pinball **URL:** https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/donspinballpodcast/episodes/DPP-129-Toppers--Taxes--and-Tanlines-e2l0kb1 --- ## Analysis Don returns from Florida and discusses Stern's recent Jaws accessory releases, analyzing pricing and value propositions for toppers, shooter rods, and speaker lights. He shares his experience purchasing a John Wick LE and reflects on his four-game rotation experiment (Foo Fighters, Venom, Jaws, John Wick), concluding that owning games for 4-6 months prevents code maturation and recommends 9-12 month ownership periods instead. ### Key Claims - [HIGH] The Jaws topper ($1,000) lacks the mechanical depth and animation quality compared to the Godzilla topper at the same price point — _Direct product comparison by host; 'I don't think we're getting the depth of animations that we got with the Godzilla topper'_ - [HIGH] John Wick LE includes five distinguishing features compared to Pro (medallion, drop target, weapons case, car mechanism, expression lights) — _Detailed enumeration of LE-specific elements during gameplay discussion_ - [HIGH] The Venom LE market flooded after release, causing prices to drop from $9,500 to approximately $8,000 — _Direct market observation: 'These things are selling like $8,000 now' and 'These things were selling at $9,500 and barely played'_ - [MEDIUM] John Wick likely won't see a Venom-style market crash because fewer units are being purchased at MSRP — _Speculation based on sales patterns: 'I don't think it's selling that well, which means there's not going to be this huge dump of John Wick LEs'_ - [HIGH] Owning new Stern games for only 4-6 months prevents players from experiencing code maturation and mature gameplay callouts — _Reflection on rotation experiment: 'I didn't even get those great call-outs from Foo Fighters that are in the code now'_ - [MEDIUM] A rumor exists of a Godzilla 70th Anniversary black-and-white edition releasing next month, driving market manipulation — _Unconfirmed rumor: 'pretty strong rumor enough to drive them to manipulate the market so if in a year or so I'm really regretting selling my Godzilla'_ - [HIGH] Shooter Rod for Jaws LE comes included with the machine, unlike the Venom LE — _'Where the heck is the Shooter Rod with the Jaws Wick LE?'_ - [HIGH] Balls of Steel released a barrel shooter rod for Jaws at roughly half the cost of Stern's official $149 version — _Competitor product reference: 'Balls of Steel released a barrel shooter rod of the same size and heft'_ ### Notable Quotes > "That's what that Elwyn magic is for... knowing that difference, that's what we're paying these designers for" > — **Don**, early section > _Establishes the value proposition for premium pinball design; frames designer expertise as core product value_ > "The market, the market should be changing... a year ago when the Godzilla topper came out... nobody would really be scrutinizing everything that they do to this level of microscopy that we're doing now" > — **Don**, early section > _Observes shift in community scrutiny and Stern's adjustment to increased transparency and criticism_ > "All the haters, man. Haters fuel me, dude. Let's poke the bear there." > — **Don**, mid-section > _Reveals personal motivation for John Wick LE purchase driven by community backlash rather than pure gameplay value_ > "It's a falling knife, man... These things are selling at $9,500 and barely played. And I was like, man, that's a hell of a deal for somebody." > — **Don**, mid-section > _Market commentary on secondary value collapse; identifies buying opportunity for Venom LE_ > "Jaws is a hell of a game, man... not quite Godzilla level, but joy-wise, I think they're neck and neck" > — **Don**, mid-section > _Comparative quality assessment positioning Jaws as tier-1 Stern release_ > "You won't lose all that much money, especially if you're not spending money powder-coating these things and putting in knockers and all the other crap that I was doing" > — **Don**, late section > _Cost analysis of game rotation strategy; acknowledges personal spending habits inflate expense_ > "The code takes time to mature... I didn't even get those great call-outs from Foo Fighters that are in the code now... because I had to sell it" > — **Don**, late section > _Key insight from rotation experiment: short ownership periods prevent experiencing code evolution and full game depth_ ### Entities | Name | Type | Context | |------|------|---------| | Don | person | Host of Don's Pinball Podcast; collector and modifier; conducted 4-game rotation experiment; recently purchased John Wick LE | | Stern Pinball | company | Primary manufacturer discussed; released Jaws accessories (topper $1,000, shooter rod $149, speaker lights $199); developing expression lighting systems | | Retro Django | person | Co-founder of We Are Pinball project with Don; pinball operator based in Copenhagen, Denmark | | Keith Elwin | person | Referenced as 'Elwyn' by Don; legendary Stern designer whose work quality serves as benchmark | | Jaws (Stern Pinball) | game | Keith Elwin design; recently released; accessories include $1,000 topper, $149 shooter rod, $199 speaker lights; LE includes premium graphics, expression lights, and physical features | | John Wick (Stern Pinball) | game | Newly acquired by Don; code version 0.8 (soft release); features medallion, drop target, weapons case, car mechanism, expression lights; gameplay compared to Bond/Deadpool tier | | Venom (Stern Pinball) | game | Recent release; LE market flooded causing price collapse from $9,500 to ~$8,000; part of Don's rotation experiment; market reference point for new releases | | Godzilla (Stern Pinball) | game | Topper priced at $1,000; market currently flooded with premiums; rumored 70th Anniversary black-and-white edition driving secondary market manipulation; Don sold his unit | | Foo Fighters (Stern Pinball) | game | First game in Don's rotation experiment; code matured after sale preventing full experience of later call-outs | | Balls of Steel | company | Competitor accessory manufacturer; released barrel shooter rod for Jaws at approximately half Stern's official $149 price | | American Pinball | company | Manufacturer referenced for 3D printing adoption in Galactic Tank Force; produced tank, probes, and Nordman robot using 3D printing | | 1-Up Lounge (Belliam, Washington) | venue | Location receiving Don's powder-coated Jaws Premium; described as hosting 'greatest-looking Jaws premium on the planet' | | We Are Pinball | organization | Joint project between Don and Retro Django; 1,000+ members on Facebook; producing merchandise (t-shirts, stickers) and content | | Elliot Eisman | person | John Wick LE medallion coinbox signed by this person; associated with game production | | Joe Casey | person | Pinball plastics designer/modifier; Don ordered custom plastics from this vendor for John Wick | | Rocket City Pinball | company | Vendor from which Don ordered modifications/accessories for John Wick | ### Topics - **Primary:** Stern accessory pricing strategy and value proposition, Jaws topper design quality and comparison to Godzilla, John Wick LE features and gameplay depth, Secondary market dynamics and pricing trends for Venom LE, Game rotation strategy economics and code maturation timing - **Secondary:** 3D printing vs injection molding in pinball accessories, Community engagement and Stern's responsiveness to criticism, Personal collecting philosophy and long-term value retention ### Sentiment **Mixed** (0.55) — Positive reception of Jaws game quality and accessibility of new features; critical but balanced assessment of accessory value/pricing; satisfaction with John Wick LE despite community skepticism; pragmatic reflection on rotation experiment revealing both financial viability and experiential limitations ### Signals - **[community_signal]** We Are Pinball project launched by Don and Retro Django achieving rapid growth (1,000+ Facebook members); merchandise and content distribution underway (confidence: high) — 'We've got like 1,000 people on the Facebook page... I've got the T-shirt on the way... I've got some stickers I'm starting to send out' - **[community_signal]** Stern actively reaching out to content creators and community voices for feedback on products and release cadence (confidence: medium) — 'Stern Pinball is adjusting, given that they recently reached out to folks that spend their time commenting on these sorts of things and work as mouthpieces' - **[competitive_signal]** Balls of Steel underselling Stern's official Jaws shooter rod ($149) at approximately 50% discount with successful market adoption (confidence: medium) — 'Balls of Steel released a barrel shooter rod... for much cheaper... it was a great seller... there's probably just not as much enthusiasm out there for what you can basically get for about half the cost' - **[design_philosophy]** Stern prioritizing pre-approved artwork to avoid licensing delays; design team working within constraints rather than pursuing mechanical innovation on Jaws topper (confidence: medium) — 'The design team worked within the parameters... they went with art that was already approved so that it didn't get hung up' - **[market_signal]** Venom LE secondary market collapse from $9,500 to ~$8,000; characterized as 'falling knife' indicating buyer remorse and market saturation post-COVID (confidence: high) — 'These things are selling like $8,000 now... They were selling at $9,500 and barely played' - **[community_signal]** Don's motivation for John Wick LE purchase partially driven by contrarian positioning against community skepticism ('haters fuel me') rather than pure gameplay assessment (confidence: high) — 'All the haters, man. Haters fuel me, dude... was just for me and my level of pettiness that I hold dear it played right into it' - **[market_signal]** Community sentiment on Jaws $1,000 topper pricing; Don perceives fair value around $650-700, suggesting current $1,000 positioning above willingness-to-pay threshold (confidence: high) — 'If it was $200 I would buy one... if it was $1,500 no... 699 maybe... 700 I don't think I would so for me that's where the price is' - **[product_strategy]** John Wick LE includes five distinguishing playfield/mechanical features over Pro model (medallion, drop target, weapons case, car mechanism, expression lights) (confidence: high) — Don's detailed enumeration: 'You get the medallion that pops open... you get the drop target... the physical ball lock... the weapons case... the car' - **[product_concern]** John Wick car mechanism lacks physical ball lock capability and diverter system; Don identifies this as missed design opportunity for gameplay enhancement (confidence: high) — 'There's no diverter in the back like you see on Venom... so I think that's something that would have been kind of cool to add but wasn't there' - **[rumor_hype]** Unconfirmed rumor of Godzilla 70th Anniversary black-and-white edition releasing next month; driving secondary market manipulation with players offloading premiums (confidence: low) — 'Pretty strong rumor enough to drive them to manipulate the market... people are banking on this rumor that next month we're going to see a black-and-white 70th anniversary edition' - **[sentiment_shift]** Community gun-shyness on John Wick LE purchases due to Venom experience; Don predicts lower primary market adoption reducing secondary market flooding (confidence: medium) — 'People are gun shy appropriately... I don't think people are rushing out and getting all these John Wick LEs because they still feel burnt on Venom' - **[technology_signal]** 3D printing adoption enabling cost reduction for accessory production; American Pinball utilized 3D printing for Galactic Tank Force components with positive reception (confidence: medium) — 'American Pinball really went all in on the 3D printing... all of that 3D printed... for considerably less cost than paying for tooling' --- ## Transcript What's going on everybody? Are you still around? I've been gone for a minute. This is Don's Pinball Podcast. We're up to episode number 129. Back from Florida, back out of that humidity, into the Wisconsin community, but in the pinball community, it is heating up. We're going to get into all of that and more. Talk some Jaws accessories. Let's do it. Oh, what's going on, everybody? Hello, pack it in. We're about to begin. I came to win. Battle me. You're probably going to win because I'm not that great at pinball. It's been a minute, like eight days, probably the longest I've gone between my regular episode publishing schedule. Now, part of that is because I have been down in the sweltering swamps of Central Florida, theme parking it up, doing a little bit of work conferencing, doing a little bit of Epcot-ing, and doing a little bit of theme park exploration. But I did drop a couple of things in there. I believe there was some Patreon content, as well as Episode 2 of We Are Pinball, which has been extremely well-received by the community. We've got like 1,000 people on the Facebook page. So this is a joint project between myself and RETROCENGO. Django is out there in Copenhagen, Denmark. He's a pinball operator, a pinball enthusiast. I was going to say Sylvester Stallone impersonator, but he's Schwarzenegger if he was Danish, man. So we've been having fun with that, having fun with the Facebook page, dropping tons of content. Go check it out if you haven't, although with everybody that's been over there, I think everybody already knows. I've got the T-shirt on the way. I've got some stickers I'm starting to send out. So wearepinball.com, or wearepinball at gmail.com. No, wearepinball69 at gmail.com is the email address for that, just because it's even more ridiculous. But what's up? We're here, and I'm happy to be back on the airwaves here. So much has been going on and transpiring within the last week, and I'm just trying to get caught up. I'm just trying to get caught up. More about my personal odyssey in Florida later here. Let's chat about these Stern accessories. We've all seen them by now. all the Jaws stuff has dropped. I will champion Stern for bringing these accessories so close to the release of the game. This seems to be an appropriate cadence for dropping these things off. Somebody mentioned something recently that Stern, I don't think they're used to this amount of attention and this amount of little pesky criticism because, you know, up until a couple of years ago, you know, there was, you know, the pinball fans were pretty much the people that have been kind of into the hobby for years. Right? And so for many years, nobody would really be scrutinizing everything that they do to this level of microscopy that we're doing now. But hey, this is where we're at. And it seems like Stern Pinball is adjusting, given that they recently reached out to folks that spend their time commenting on these sorts of things and work as mouthpieces for the hobbyist group that we have here. So it's nice to see that they're kind of trying to bring us into the fold a little bit. And they're listening to us, at least in the fact that they're getting these accessories out a little sooner. Although, we're still waiting on Venom, but who knows. Is it licensing? Is it marketing? What is it? Here's what we got. I get some views on Venom later. So the big thing, the topper, right? The topper came out as $1,000. Now, they announced it was going to be $1,000 before we saw it. And we've kind of been conditioned to what to expect at that price point with Stern Pinball. But the market, the market should be changing. You know, a year ago when the Godzilla topper came out, has it been that long? That was $1,000. It had nothing mechanically to it, but it did have the plume, the vape smoke plume. And it's got the pretty light show, and it came with an extra mode or something. Was it overpriced? Of course it was for a static model. You know, essentially, when a topper, what the whole point of it was was just to catch your eye in the arcade and make you go play that game instead of something else. But whatever. You know, it is what it is. It was $1,000. But here's the thing. That topper was for Godzilla, like the game. I just played it again today, and there's so much going on in that game, so many creative ball paths. You really appreciate the nuance that went into that design. It's degrees that take a shot that is completely satisfying from one that is just a rattle fest. And knowing that difference, that's what we're paying for. That's what we're paying these designers for. That's what it takes years, and it takes insight to be able to say, let's tweak this just so so that if the ball doesn't make it up the ramp it doesn't just fire right down the middle it kind of cruises back over to the flipper sets up a different shot sets up those combos that's what that Elwyn magic is for so here's Elwyn's next game it's Jaws, it's magical I love the damn thing I got it powder coated of course I would want the official topper on there but we're not in the time of Godzilla anymore the market's down on everything if you're looking at selling this game which, you know, unfortunately got my jaws sold already. So I'm not looking to put this topper up there. So what did we get? Okay, we got essentially a couple of scenes or a couple of, there's some depth there of plastic. Essentially, there's three rows of things going on. You know, the first row, you got some bushes or shrubs. And then you got this, the billboard, the Amity billboard from the film, which I totally appreciate. And then you got a little backdrop there and a little with LEDs. I like the light show. It's cool how they took the sonar pattern and put that in there. So that's all fun. But, you know, essentially it looks like probably less than we got with Godzilla. Godzilla had that dazzling burning effect for the back there. And if you look, when you're fighting Gigan, his little eyeball lights up in there. That's clever. That's kind of clever. You know, so I don't think we're getting the depth of animations that we got with the Godzilla topper, which is what I'm comparing this to because it's the same price. The laticular effect looks kind of funky. I don't know how else you would really do that, you know, unless you had some kind of Pepper's Ghost effect or a projection or something that would change to be backlit so then it would show through, you know, the defacement that's on there. You know, but whatever. It's cool. Overall, as far as product goes, it's good enough for a topper. You know, I don't hate it. I don't love it. It's not Black Knight. Heck, it's not even Elvira. But, you know, it's cool for what it is. Just like I feel the same way about it as I feel about the Foo Fighters topper, although that had a little bit more motion in it. I think it's a cool thing. I think the design team, you know, they worked within the parameters. They went with art that was already approved so that it didn't get hung up. You know, so it's okay. It's okay. You know, if nothing else, they could have put, you know, the same shark that's on the premium up there because they already have that mold. They already have the tooling paid for. You know, maybe throw a mechanism in there. That would have made it a little cooler. I don't know. What would you do, though? Have the shark just jump through the billboard, have Fonzarelli launching on his water skis over it and then get bitten by the shark at the end? That would be kind of cool. I'd pay $1,000 and see the fawns eaten by a shark. But, you know, this is what we got. So how much is that worth it to you? It breaks down like this. You know, if I think of a price where if they said that this product was this price, I'd kind of be 50-50 on the fence. That's probably where you want to be price-wise. You know, and the way you figure that out is if this thing was $200, would you buy one? I think all day I would. If it was $1,500, would you buy it? No. Okay, so $1,500 is too much. $200 is probably too cheap. so uh 699 maybe if it was 699 it'd really be like you know do i really need it i don't know maybe i could swing it that's probably the price i would probably put this out if i was sitting on the marketing team and wanted to put this thing out there now i don't have the hard data i don't have the numbers i don't know how well these things are actually selling stern doesn't release that information that's private proprietary info so if they came out with this topper for 999 and they planned on selling you know 1700 of them and they sell them all then 999 was the right price you know so i don't have all the information to be able to say you know marketing wise where should this thing cost for me personally uh i would hem and haw it around 650 699 500 i'd probably buy it 700 i don't think i would so for me that's where the price is around it as far as a product though it's it's okay it's all right i would have liked to see you know sculpted things but like you know I'm into dioramas and 3D printing my own stuff. You know, I think when it comes down to the price of tooling versus 3D printing, it seems like people really expect to have tool-injected, molded plastics on their little playground diorama dollhouses that we have. We kind of balk at when things are 3D printed. I will say, though, the advancements in 3D printing has come a long way. The price to make a run of things is much cheaper. You know, if you were 3D printing Black Knight helmets instead of, you know, needing to redo tooling or something, you could make that topper for much cheaper. And, you know, obviously the injection mold would have better quality at the end, but I think 3D printing is really coming along. You know, American Pinball really went all in on the 3D printing with Galactic Tank Force when they did their little probes that are in the back, and, of course, the tank in the front and the little Nordman robot that pops up there. All of that 3D printed, you know, and the price for the considerable less cost than, you know, paying for the tooling for each one of those sculpts. Although I think at the end result, it would have been better. And that where we at So we see It kind of you know I don think I disappointed with what they brought out I say I wasn surprised You know of course we expecting things you know to really be a step up better than anything that come out before But honestly, we can look back at prior releases and figure we're probably going to get something around the same. So in the end, it seems to be about the same scope and scale as the Godzilla topper, which makes sense. It came from probably the same team, came from the same company, came at the same price. So there it is. Anybody that's got JAWS long-term, if this is the game in your game room without a topper, you're going to put it on there. Now, I myself, I went ahead and used a little ingenuity and stole some ideas that I saw other people incorporating, and I made my own JAWS topper, threw it up on the Facebook page. Go check it out there. Maybe I'll throw up another picture there. I believe there's one up there. Yeah, yeah, I just put it up on the Don Spindle Podcast Facebook site. It's been a blur. I've been soaking in the Florida heat trying to keep track of everything that I'm doing on the socials. All right, so what else did we get? We got the R-Blades for $99. Perfect. I like that price. Shooter Rod, $149. Yeah, I don't hate it. I'd like it better if it was $125. I'd like it better at $99. I've heard, I was listening to the pinball show today, and I guess the Shooter Rod hasn't been selling as well as the Topper. And that's probably because a lot of the LE owners for Jaws, it came with the Shooter Rod. Thank you, Stern, for doing that. Where the heck is the Shooter Rod with the Jaws Wick LE? I would like to know more on that in a bit. But also, Balls of Steel released a barrel shooter rod of the same size and heft and really kind of copies the same look for much cheaper. And from what I hear, it was a great seller. So I think a lot of people that didn't already have an LE probably bought that shooter rod. And so there's probably just not as much enthusiasm out there in the space for what you can basically get for about half the cost. But there you go. You got a shooter rod. And the speaker lights, $199. I think I nailed this. I was thinking these were going to come in at around $249 for the speaker panel lights that interact with the game and everything. They come with a node board or two, and they work off the code with the expression lights, similar to how those work. Now, JAWS doesn't have the expression lights. It has the expression back panel lights and I guess an expression topper now, too. So that's about what I expected. I like that it wasn't $249.99. It came in at $199. So if you've got a JAWS, these are the speaker lights I think you would like. Do they come with the inserts, though? I think the inserts of the little shark mouth there, that was an LE exclusive. I will say that I've already come up with a 3D-printed shark that would work well enough. So I think, you know, go talk to your friend with a 3D printer and have them crank you out some shark relief panels, or somebody will come out with them. They'll be on Penn's side. So there you go. I think that's a fair price. Now, that brings us to the full expression lighting system for John Wick, I think is going to come in around $700, given that the cabinet expression lights are probably going to be $500 if they're not $550. And then if this stays at $199, the whole package, $700, $750 is what I expect to see from Stern. And that kind of leads me into, of course, my recent purchase, a recent unboxing, which I know everybody knows about, because I've got over 1,000 people already have watched my Facebook Live from yesterday, from the live unboxing of John Wick LE, man. I went ahead and did it, and I'll explain why. Three reasons. One, I think the game, beautiful. Saw it in person. I love the stained glass look. They really killed it on the LE graphics and everything else that comes with an LE. I love that. Gameplay-wise, I don't hate the game. The game, for me, it's still very early. It's his first impressions. The code is .8, and even that, it's a soft .8. I think it's going to come in when all is said and done at the level of a Bond or Deadpool as far as like what's on the play field, what you can interact with. Because Deadpool, as lauded as it is, there's not much there. There's a scoop. There's a cool little sneaky ramp. There's a little mini Deadpool. It's packed with humor. But layout-wise, tell me that there's not that much there. There's a katana lock, right? But is there all that much different, all that much extra in a Deadpool versus John Wick? I don't think so, at least looking at the Premium LE. Now, when you look at the Pro, Premium, and the LE, you're really getting, normally there's like three things that are different, right? You know, a mechanism, a couple sculpts, and an extra scoop or an extra ramp or something. This, I counted five things. Now, none of these five things are earth-shattering, but each one is something that's kind of cool, and when you take the sum of everything and put it together, it can kind of, you know, it's at least, you know, if you look at the difference between the bond pro and bond premium, I think it's at least as good or better than what's offered there. Right. Tell me the bond on the wand really adds much. It's kind of cool, but, eh. Um, so what do you get with John wiki? You get the medallion that pops open. Kind of cool, right? Uh, you get the drop target, uh, between the, between the, uh, little like, what is a spa nightclub area back there? I gotta say, it's kind of cool playing with it. Um, obviously it's, you know, one extra target to hit. That's like, you know, it's one drop target. It's not even a bank of drop targets. But the way they use it is kind of cool. You can put balls in there, and then the drop target pops up, locking the ball back there. It does this cool thing, and I don't know code-wise what makes it happen, but when a ball is locked back there, the drop target will fall down momentarily, pop back up, launching the ball backwards into the pop bumper. Kind of cool. It's kind of neat that it does that. It also works kind of as like that Denise-y lock thing, where the drop target will hold the ball back there, and you can bash it and then knock the ball back. You can knock it to release the ball and start a multiball that way. So, yeah, it's just one drop target. It's not earth-shattering, but it's kind of cool, right? You get the physical ball lock up there, and when you hit that multiball, it drops all the balls into the little caged area back there so they all bounce around. Okay, not earth-shattering, but it's kind of cool, right? You get what I thought was the Altoids case, but it's actually much more fun, the weapons case. You bash. It's satisfying when you hit it that third time and it pops open, and then you go ahead and throw the balls in there, you know. And same thing, not earth shattering. It's kind of cool. It's kind of cool. The car is fun. You know, the car does move on the pro, but it's fun when it does swing out to block that shot. Although, codes early, I don't really know what's triggering it to do that. You know, if I get a good long playing game where I've done a couple of modes and I've done a multiball or two, that's when I see it pop out. And then essentially you hit it once and it moves out of the way. So I want to see that develop more code-wise into something. Give me a call-out. Tell me what I'm supposed to do with this dang car when it's blocking the drive-through. One thing I was hoping was that the car could work as another physical ball lock, and then you can lock balls behind it, and then they can release for a multiball. But unfortunately, I don't see a way for that to happen because the only way you can get the ball up there is either a really soft shot that just makes it up to that spring switch or leaf switch to trigger the car to hold it, which is difficult. or you have to plunge just so to get that skill shot to roll in there. There's no diverter in the back like you see on Venom or other games where you can hit a ball up there into the orbit, and then it'll just be redirected and act like a diverter. There's nothing back there like that, so I think that's something that would have been kind of cool to add but wasn't there. So there you go. You get the car, you get the case, you get the drop target, you get the physical ball lock, you get the medallion. None of those things individually is all that crazy, But the five things together make the gameplay a little more fun. And so when I compare it to Bond, what do we get? We got the underwater battle scene. It does nothing for gameplay. We got the tank. Kind of cool, not earth-shattering. Bond on the wand. Kind of cool, not whatever. And then isn't that kind of it? Was there like an extra drop target or something? Or was that like, am I missing something? Am I missing something from the premium? There's probably one more thing that I can't think of. But again, some games like Godzilla Premium, of course, is just crazy better. Foo Fighter Premium is better. Jaws Premium is better. John Wick superficially doesn't look like it's all that great or better than the Pro. But these five things, I've been having fun with them. I'm glad they're there, and I got them on the LE. Of course, the other thing that was helpful getting the LE was the expression line. All right, so when you look at upgrading the Pro and everything you'd have to do, or upgrading the premium to try to get towards the LE. By the time you add the Invisiglass and the Shaker motor and the, what else would you have to add? You'd have to add $700 worth of lights. That kind of made the gap to jump to the LE, for me, a little more palatable. So it looked great, right? It has all the extra things in it, including the lights. Not just the cost of $700 to $750 to install this lighting kit when it's finally released, But the fact when will it be released? You know, so far we've seen it be 12 to 18 months between when the game's released to where expression lights are available. And then they kind of come and go. Sometimes they're there. Sometimes they're not. You know, so you have to get some PinStadiums to throw them in there. They're not going to do the same thing. Whatever. Is that worth it to you? If it's not, who cares? For me, that was part of it. The other part was all the haters, man. Haters fuel me, dude. Let's poke the bear there. Was it a wise financial decision? Well, buying any pinball machine is probably not a wise financial decision. But the fact that it cheesed off the right kind of people that just overreact that was just for me and my level of pettiness that I hold dear it played right into it So super happy with this thing Now let do a little bit of speculization okay in the future Now we saw Venom Venom LEs come out People bought them. Game looked great. I think the game plays okay. But we saw them just flood the market when people were like, you know what, I don't really think this is a game for me. There's better LEs out there. And then we just saw them flood the market and then that tanked to the price. These things are selling like $8,000 now. It's a falling knife, man. You know, these things were selling at $9,500 and barely played. And I was like, man, that's a hell of a deal for somebody. Now there's so much competition, they're down around $8,000, which is the freaking steal, man. I think, I mean, look, if you've got to offload your Venom LE, I don't have any room. But, like, I would seriously consider it at that point. So there was a ton of them out there. we were coming off the COVID surge of everybody buying everything that's out there and I think people were feeling it. Now people are gun shy appropriately. So I don't think people are rushing out and getting all these John Wick LEs because they still feel burnt on Venom. Jaws LE, you are safe. That game's awesome. I think it's going to hold its value relatively well. Maybe a small loss, but it's not going to catastrophically fall till nine because while I do enjoy playing Venom, Jaws is a hell of a game, man. And not quite Godzilla level, but, I mean, I think joy-wise, I think they're neck and neck, man. So, Jaws is a hell of a game. John Wick is not Jaws. John Wick is not Godzilla. But John Wick is not Venom either. I think it plays better than that and more like a Bond or a Deadpool. So, I think the game plays okay. But because people are so gun-shy and jumping in at the MSRP level and they're like, you know what? I agree, Don. I think it looks great. I think I'd love to have it. I'm going to wait and pick one of these up for $9,000. I don't know that that's going to happen because I don't think it's selling that well, which means there's not going to be this huge dump of John Wick LEs. I may be completely wrong, but over the next three to four months, I don't know that there'll just be this purge of inventory hitting pin side and tanking the numbers. So wouldn't it be crazy if John Wick, which by all accounts should follow the same pattern as Venom, may actually end up holding its value because there's just not that many out there because there weren't as many primary buyers. and then I could sit there and be like, look, I got this game. It's holding some value. Everybody was hating on it, and that actually made the game keep its value. We'll see. That could just be a pipe dream. But I'm going to go back to my original point, and listeners to the podcast, you understand this. I came up with a crazy idea to have a rotating stern in the lineup where I wanted to see if it was possible to just get the newest game when it comes out, and then when the next one is released, go ahead and sell that one and just have a rotating spot. I wanted to see how much money would I lose doing that. And, you know, if it was a couple thousand dollars, but for two years I was able to have the brand-newest Stern in the game room, I thought maybe that would be worth it. So I'm at the end of the experiment. I was going to do it for four games. I started with Foo Fighters, proceeded with Venom, Jaws, and now here I am at John Wick. Each game was enjoyed, powder-coated, upgraded, and sold off to a friend, a buddy, a local arcade, or in the case of Jaws, 1-Up Lounge in Belliam, Washington, where it will be out there next month where you can go check out what I believe to be the greatest-looking Jaws premium on the planet. You know, go check it out. So I figured we're going out with a bang. This is 4 of 4. We did the full poll. I didn't pull out early. I didn't lose that much money having these games. It was just money to have fun and the hobby. It was really cool having the newest Stern game in the house, you know, not have to wait a year later when some of the luster has died off to get it like a sensible person. And so here's what I've discovered. You know, since it was the 404, the last game, let's go out with a triumph. It's got all the lights. Heck it. I want the LE. The LE looks beautiful. It's staying. I'm done with the experiment. I'm not going to be rotating this out when X-Men 97 comes out in two months, right? Purely speculation. I don't know what they're releasing next. but what I learned here's the problem I think this is an okay idea to rotate in it's fun to have the brand new game on the block but owning it for only 4 to 6 months it kind of sucks I think you should plan to own it for 9 to 12 months and then you would have to be buying like 2 games at a time and rotating spots in order to do that and that's because the code takes time to mature getting these games brand new and only having them for 4 to 6 months and then getting them out there. I didn't even get those great call-outs from Foo Fighters that are in the code now on Foo Fighters because I had to sell it because I had Foo Fighters and Venom at the same time and Jaws was getting ready to release and I had to get them moving. So I didn't get to own the game and play through as the code matures, as my gameplay with the game improves, and get that sense out of it. So it's an idea. You can do it. You won't lose all that much money, especially if you're not spending money powder-coating these things and putting in knockers and all the other crap that I was doing. So if you wanted to have just like a rotating pro just to have, probably not a bad way to go about it. And then, you know, if the game is great, buy it again later when it's cheaper. You know, maybe jump to the next level if you really like that game. That's probably be a safer recommendation to go with, just for the fact that, you know, you're just not going to have that mature code on the game. You know, Jaws is still early, and it's already sold. It's going out in a couple of weeks. but what I will do is down the road when the prices have kind of stabilized Stern has had five more releases, Jersey Jack's released more things, Spooky's put out their next whatever, double album maybe I can go back and fish out like hey, you got a Jaws LE looks great, it's already got a chicken bucket in it, it's got 600 plays, why don't you let me have that and you can go ahead and get the Charlie Daniels band pin that Jersey Jack just released or something, you know, and so I may end up purchasing it again in the future, repurchasing, which seems reasonable. Speaking of unreasonable sales, I've got Godzilla sold. It's going to a buddy in northern Ohio. I feel okay about that, even though my Godzilla is great. It plays great. It's powder-coated. Right now on the market, it's completely flooded with Godzillas, particularly the premiums. People are just banking on this rumor that next month we're going to see a black-and-white 70th anniversary edition released. I haven't heard any confirmation of that but pretty strong rumor enough to drive them to manipulate the market so if in a year or so I'm really regretting selling my Godzilla there's going to be a cornucopia of Godzillas to take your pick from and get them again so I played the crap out of the ever loving crap out of the game modded it to the hilt I've thoroughly enjoyed it I've gotten my value out of it I'll get it on to a friend and maybe he'll give me first right of refusal down the road to get that game back. So that's kind of where I'm at in the game sphere. But yeah, man, John Wick. Let's talk about that for a second. Game, I'm having a lot of fun with it. It definitely hits different having it in your house. The thing is super pretty. And yeah, it's only been not even a full day that I've had it unboxed. But the thing is fun. I've already started throwing some mods in there. I printed out some flipper toppers of John Wick's gun there. I'm still working on the gun shooter rod, although it is functional. I want to have it 100% before I consider selling it to anybody. I've got a couple testers lined up, so I'll be sending out the test ones soon. I've got the Medallion Coindor mod in there. My medallion was signed by Elliot Elliot Eismin. Super dope. I've got the little patch of fabric in there that came with the LE. That's awesome. If that doesn't mean much to you, then who cares? But I kind of dig it. I'm putting the plastics in right now from Joe Casey. So, yeah, I'm having fun with the game, man. I got some stuff ordered from Rocket City Pinball. We're going with it, dude. It's the season of the WIC, and WIC's going to be kicking around the game room for at least a year, man. It's so pretty, and I'm glad I was able to go out with that. So what else do I got? I'll probably throw an apron card together for it so you can snap it right into the premium apron with something better than just the little card that's there. And I may even come up with my own little start button anyway. Who knows? All right, so what else is going on? Got a news release from Barrels of Fun. You probably heard about this already. They just publicly wanted to state that they've sold 750 games. So way to go. Applause to you guys for just hitting a home run with your first game out of the box. So 750 out of 1,100 apparently are sold, leaving about 350 still to be sold. And from listening to the pinball show, is Zach still selling these things? People have their names in. And they're still going to be, if you go in right now, I think six months to a year is where your expectations are to get your game. and I went ahead and looked on Pinside and a couple of them have sold, of course, with the topper, with the back glass, with the nipper shooter rod, fully dressed, home use only. 11.5 is what they're selling for. There's one pending for 11.5. There's one for sale right now for 11.5 or best offer. And I think I may even match that because, listen, I need room, man. I'm not just full in the arcade. I'm over full, overstuffed. I can't even turn everything on without flipping a breaker. So either I've got to run, do some new home runs of electrical lines, or we need to pare down the machines a bit. Because I just brought my 18th machine into the house. It's a bit cramped down there. There's still room to walk around. It's not like a hoarding situation. But I would like a little bit more breathing room So I taking a real critical eye look at the games that I have and things that are available and so if you were thinking about getting a labyrinth that you want one fully dressed home use only and you want to skip the line and still come in at or slightly below msrp hit your boy up don's pinball podcast gmail.com see if we can make it happen all right uh so uh with 350 left to sell uh what i didn't really remember is where they said they are production-wise. I still think they've only made about 200 games or so. Barrels of Fun, if you're listening, please fact-check me on that. But yeah, I did appreciate the press release there. So when are they going to get their next game out? I don't think they're going to wait until all 1,100 of these are built in order to put that out there. Pinball Show appears to agree with that sentiment, so maybe later this year we might start seeing or hearing whispers about what they got coming next. Very excited for those guys. Now, a bit of staleness has landed. There's a stench coming from the state of Georgia, the stench of overtaxes and injustice, which next to broccoli on pizza, I think is the second most thing I hate in the world, which is injustice. Every town has a taxes too, and the taxes is due. Do, do, do, do, do. So as I understand it, Southern Fried Gaming Expo is coming up next month. I'm excited to go there. My first time going there. I hear great things, pinball machines, video games, wrestling, what's not to love. It's just down yonder past the Chattahoochee near Six Flags Over Georgia in Atlanta. What's not to love? Let's go down to Atlanta in July, said probably nobody ever. Hopefully the air conditioning is in effect. So here's what I'm hearing. Just a few weeks out from the start of this mega conference in the southeastern United States, it's threatening to be canceled, okay? Like not canceled like you said a bad word on Twitter five years ago. I'm talking about canceled due to some very archaic and overreaching taxation policies on amusement machines in Georgia. So here it is as I understand it. For those location operators, state by state, this varies. Sometimes you have to register your machines or you have to buy some permit to operate it. These things are regulated by local, state, or larger governments. Well, in Georgia, apparently pinball machines are regulated at the level of like a slot machine at a gas station truck stop, where you have to not only pay a fee, which apparently is pretty reasonable, $25 a year to permit that device that you're operating there. If you're doing quarter drop Pac-Man, that kind of sucks. That would take forever to earn just that money back to the cost to operate. But if you're looking at something that's as expensive as a pinball machine to purchase and you need to get 12,000 plays on this thing just to break even, that $25 starts to kind of suck, especially when it's such a high-maintenance device as well. Things break. Things need to be replaced. You need to freshen up the lineup to keep people coming in. If you're on coin drop, it's like, my God, man. So fine. So $25 a year for this machine. But not only that, the operator has to purchase a gaming license for their establishment, which, according to my buddy I just talked to, can be like $7,000 to purchase the license just to open the door. And then you've got to license $25 per machine of these machines that require a lot of maintenance, that require a high cost of entry. And so for this fact, a lot of arcades closed or just never even came into operation because, you know, if you're like a Dave and Buster's size place, you know, doing birthday parties and ball pits and foam parties and pride rallies and all that business and, you know, you're just making gobs of money per year between the bowling and the trampoline park and the indoor roller coasters and all that, maybe it kind of makes sense. But maybe you want to operate four machines at a pizza parlor. You know, now you've got to pay $7,000, the price of like a pro machine as it is, just to walk in the door, then, you know, $25 per machine and then try to survive on coin drop and then do like a 60-40 split with the operator. Like, dude, that sucks, man. You know, so why are they regulating these things like they're casino machines? And the reason is because back in the olden days, you know, gambling was, you know, done in this manner. And so it's just kind of like a holdover from, I don't know, either out of touch or like outright criminal government officials that are just like heavy handedly coming down. So what does this mean? In Georgia, a lot of people have been able to kind of skirt this by having just free to play arcades where you pay a cover charge at the door and then everything's on free play. So it's not like, OK, we're not operating it as like a coin drop. Well, now they're starting to crack down on that. And now it's gotten so bad that the Southern Fried Gaming Expo, which charges an entry fee to go into the trade show expo floor, is being seen as an amusement operating endeavor. And so now they're threatening to not allow the doors to open unless they, you know, who even is going to buy the license? This is like people just bringing games for fun to show off at the show in exchange for free entry, you know, and just to kind of curry favor in the hobby, maybe sell their games, get people to try them out, you know, or whatever. so are you going to have to have each individual operator buy a $7,000 license to bring a game for free to come in for a weekend to the wrestling and pinball and arcade show? That's completely absurd it's just the right kind of overreach that is right for public rebellion I think in a lawful manner of course so I said to my friend what would happen if all the arcade operators just Boston Tea partied this thing and just refused to pay until it got so much media attention so much pressure that they were like okay okay we're gonna back off on the pac-man operators we're gonna batman back off on the batman 66 operators you know and we're gonna categorize yourselves differently you know because if i'm running four video slot machines at the pilot gas station on the turnpike like you know okay those things are just making money gobs over fists so it makes sense to regulate those you know according to like the blue laws that may exist in a local area but a pinball machine that you might get a dollar from you know if i'm operating Domino's Pizza Adventure and trying to make two bucks on somebody before they pick up their pizza. Like, I got to pay seven grand just to walk in the door and then the $25 fee on top of that. Like, that's nuts, man. And it doesn't seem to be serving the public or the businesses in a proper manner. Not only that, it's the lottery commission that I guess has jurisdiction over this. So like, again, if it was a gambling machine, this would make sense if it was a gambling table, if it was a poker room or what have you. you know but they're like this this is nuts man so we're a couple weeks out from the southern fry gaming expo and now i'm hearing the whole thing is threatened to be canceled what the heck man so much time energy effort and goodwill goes into creating these events which is i mean this isn't like a business that's operating you know this is just this is an expo where i'll come together we pay the entry fee you know we share the costs you sure there might be some profits somewhere, but it's just like, you know, the buy and sell exchange kind of thing. Just come for fun. Come watch the wrestling. Come get some nachos or something. But, like, what the heck? And who would even have to buy the license? Is it the organizers of the event? Is it the event center? Is it the individual exhibitors, which is probably what the lottery commission would like. So I don't know all the details. I just got this texted to me tonight, and I want to just put this out there and make it known. You know, somebody goes to meetings and votes and they have quorums, and this is something that can be straightened out in a simple, you know, flick of the pen, a little signature on something. But, like, you know, get your act together, man. Guillot, Georgia. Guillot. Let's do this. All right. So that was Don's Pinball Podcast, episode number 129. From me to you, more to come as we go on. John Wick has landed. I'm enjoying the dang thing. These games are very expensive. Both of those things can be true. Was it the right decision? For me, I kind of think it was. For you, it may be different, and that's okay, and that's okay. But I got to get some of these games out of here at some point, man. You know, I've got to – my second home is already starting to get filled up with these things. It's too much. It's too much stuff to do. It's bad enough having the maintenance for the in-ground pool at the other house, plus my above-ground pool at my other house. What are we even doing here, guys? What are we even doing? All right, so I'll be back. Ooh, email me, donspinballpodcast at gmail.com. I love getting messages. If you hate the show, let me know so we can improve and make it better. If you want a shout-out, let me know. I love doing some of that. For the Patreon members, we are overdue for the giveaway for this month. And I think this month, being season of the WIC, it would make sense to give away a WIC Translite. But it would make even less sense to give away, I don't know, three WIC Translites? So that's what we're doing. So if you haven't joined the Patreon, five bucks will get you in the door. and you don't even have to pay anything to the Georgia Lottery Commission to participate in this giveaway and get yourself some stuff. If you want some pinball mods, if you've ordered anything, I got all the orders caught up today, man. They're all coming out to you. You've got tracking information in your email. If you want T-shirts and things, I'm putting more orders in soon. Listen to WAP. Give me your feedback. Anything else, I don't know. Tell your mom. Mother's Day will be here before you know it. Father's Day was off the hinges. We've got the John Wick unboxing. Check it out on YouTube and on Facebook. I've got two different live streams going at the same time. Super cool. We're just having a blast here. Shout out to the Pinball Junk Jor. Thanks for coming by. Beth and Tony, you guys are awesome as well. Anybody else? Joe, thanks for helping me with Godzilla. Bye. _(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_ --- *Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: 9ed809e5-3524-4028-884e-8792df79d06b*