# Episode 39 - Operator Spotlight: Flip a Coin

**Source:** Wedgehead Pinball Podcast  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2024-07-15  
**Duration:** 45m 37s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** Buzzsprout-15296213

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## Analysis

Alan (Wedgehead Pinball Podcast host) interviews AJ, owner of Flip A Coin Arcade operating out of Bite Me Bakery in Pueblo, Colorado. They discuss AJ's journey from casual pinball enthusiast to arcade operator, the challenges of operating in a pinball desert, the transition from a route operation to a dedicated basement bar/arcade during COVID, pricing models and splits with business partners, machine maintenance philosophy, and the operator-player relationship dynamics. Key themes include the importance of good game maintenance, transparent pricing, and mutual respect between operators and the player community.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Denver area has hundreds of games on location with a massive and fast-growing pinball scene, while Pueblo is about 120 miles south with minimal competition until recently — _AJ describing regional geography and arcade distribution_
- [HIGH] AJ transitioned from route operation to 100% dedicated operation at Flip A Coin due to unsustainable split offer (50/50) from bar owner post-COVID — _AJ explaining: 'the bar owner wanted a 50 50 split and i was like no... 60 40 at that point'_
- [HIGH] Flip A Coin Arcade averaged approximately 25 people per tournament without active promotion, considered relatively strong for Pueblo's 100,000 population — _AJ: 'we're averaging like 25 people without trying at a tournament which is relatively good for a town of 100,000 people'_
- [MEDIUM] Regional operator splits are shifting beyond traditional 50/50 model, with some operators demanding 80/20 (operator keeps 80%) in certain markets — _Alan: 'i know people who won't even talk to people for less than 80 20' and mentions Portland operators at 60/40_
- [HIGH] AJ operates new games at $1.00/play (some with 3 for $2 bonus), older solid state games at $0.50/play across three balls, no extra balls on tournament machines — _AJ pricing breakdown: 'everything new is a dollar a game... Everything else... are all 50 cents a game'_
- [HIGH] Current new game prices ($7k-$13k+) make ROI calculation critical; at $0.50 per credit on a $12k game, payoff requires substantial play volume — _Discussion of economics: 'you're making 50 cents per credit on a 12 grand labyrinth... it takes a lot of quarters to pay for that'_
- [HIGH] Flip A Coin Arcade launched its basement bar during COVID timing windows when restrictions eased and liquor license approval aligned — _AJ: 'we got our liquor license and it opened up. It was the absolute perfect timing combination'_
- [HIGH] Players frequently complain about disabled extra balls and tighter tilt settings, viewing them as operator 'rip-offs' despite factory settings being standard — _AJ: 'i have people bitching about it non-stop' regarding extra ball settings_

### Notable Quotes

> "it's like when you just buy an le of every stern coming out i really question the judgment"
> — **Alan (Host)**, Early discussion
> _Critique of operators buying all LEs based on clout rather than gameplay quality or operator philosophy_

> "if you're the first barcade or whatever in a city where there isn't anything, and everyone's initial impression is games that don't play right and are breaking and stealing quarters and stuff, that's not fun"
> — **Alan**, Mid-conversation
> _Core argument for why good maintenance and fair setup establishes trust in emerging markets_

> "if like here if i have a game go down i'm fixing that shit within like five minutes like I'm not gonna let it go down I'm I don't care if there's people around glasses coming off I'm fixing it"
> — **AJ**, Maintenance philosophy section
> _Demonstrates operator standard for responsiveness and investment in player experience_

> "people just really don't understand it... people don't really like to say, oh, the sling doesn't work or the slings are weak, because usually that means it's in the player's favor"
> — **Alan**, Player feedback discussion
> _Insight into why operators miss subtle maintenance issues and need active player feedback_

> "if you have to kick a game around to get a high score, then you're not really that good. And it's not the operators taking something away from you"
> — **Alan**, Tilt/difficulty discussion
> _Frames tilt sensitivity as game design, not operator cheating_

> "we're all pinball players. But at the same time, fuck those people... we love you. We need you as operators. No, we can't do it without you... But also, you can't do it without us. You want the same thing. It's a symbiotic relationship"
> — **Alan**, Closing remarks
> _Core thesis on operator-player interdependency and mutual respect_

> "the old school operator thing across the board was 50 50 meaning 50 for the business 50 for the operator"
> — **Alan**, Split discussion
> _Explains historical baseline for understanding emerging split model negotiations_

> "It's entitlement. It's complete entitlement. And pinball players are the worst... They can be, they're the best. We're all pinball players."
> — **Alan**, Philosophy section
> _Captures tension within tight-knit pinball community between passion and player expectations_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| AJ | person | Owner of Flip A Coin Arcade located in Bite Me Bakery, Pueblo, Colorado; transitioned from route operator to dedicated arcade/bar operator; collects heirloom pinball machines (Mata Hari, Rock, Pinbot) |
| Alan | person | Co-host of Wedgehead Pinball Podcast and co-owner of Wedgehead bar in Portland; leads interview discussion on operator philosophy and player relations |
| Alex | person | Co-host of Wedgehead Pinball Podcast, provides basement studio space, not affiliated with Wedgehead bar; known for MS Paint artwork projects |
| Flip A Coin Arcade | organization | Pinball arcade and bar located in basement of Bite Me Bakery, Pueblo, Colorado; operates 35-40+ games; runs weekly tournaments averaging ~25 players |
| Bite Me Bakery | organization | Bakery and bar in Pueblo, Colorado housing Flip A Coin Arcade; established with prior bar infrastructure from pizza place/comedy club building history; family business involving AJ and bakery owners' family |
| Wedgehead | organization | Pinball bar in Portland, Oregon co-owned by Alan; operates large game collection with extensive route presence; high-volume tournament venue mentioned as reference for good operator standards |
| 1UP Arcade | organization | Long-established Denver arcade with three locations and rumored fourth expansion; known for collecting LE editions and creating visible 'clout' through premium machine selection |
| Pueblo, Colorado | event|location | City of ~100,000 population located 120 miles south of Denver and 36-45 minutes south of Colorado Springs; historically pinball desert with minimal arcade presence before Flip A Coin Arcade launch |
| Wedgehead Pinball Podcast | organization | Podcast hosted by Alan and Alex focusing on pinball culture, operator spotlights, and community education; includes planned 'pinball economics' deep-dive series |
| Labyrinth | game | Modern pinball game ($12k+ price) used as reference point for ROI calculations and pricing discussions by operators |
| Next Level | organization | Major arcade venue with hundreds of games and dedicated back room for machine rotation; referenced as example of best-practice operator standards (no dark games visible to customers) |
| Electric Bat | organization | Beloved arcade venue referenced alongside Pops and Waltz LA as establishing strong community followings and reputation |
| Pops | organization | Beloved arcade venue in Boston with strong community reputation, referenced as operator standard-bearer |
| Waltz | organization | Massive arcade venue in LA with significant community presence and beloved status |
| Twilight Zone | game | Pinball machine where AJ enables extra balls to facilitate Lost in the Zone mode progression on 3-ball play |
| Black Knight | game | Vintage pinball machine where broken sling arm was diagnosed after listener feedback during podcast discussion |
| Mata Hari | game | Vintage pinball game AJ inherited from uncle; currently stored in bedroom used as furniture (dressing table) |
| Pinbot | game | Vintage solid-state pinball machine AJ acquired from arcade where he played growing up; treasured childhood game |
| Rock (1985) | game | Gottlieb pinball game from 1985 belonging to AJ's uncle; currently in AJ's basement; subject of Alex's custom backglass MS Paint project |
| COVID-19 | event | Pandemic provided both disruption (route closures, restrictions) and opportunity (timing of bar launch and liquor license approval) for Flip A Coin Arcade expansion |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Operator Business Models & Route Economics, Game Pricing and Revenue Splits, Machine Maintenance Standards and Player Experience, Operator-Player Relationship Dynamics
- **Secondary:** Geographic Market Development (Pinball Desert to Growing Scene), Tournament Organization and Community Building, Extra Balls and Tilt Settings Philosophy, Collector vs. Operator Mentality (LE Purchasing)

### Sentiment

**Positive** (0.72) — Hosts are respectful and admiring of AJ's operator standards and business approach. Discussion is candid and critical of entitlement in player community and some operator practices (LE hoarding), but framed constructively. Tension evident around player expectations vs. operator economics, but both hosts and guest agree on shared values (community, quality, respect). Slight defensiveness when discussing criticism, but overall tone is encouraging and educational.

### Signals

- **[business_signal]** New game pricing ($7k-$15k) creates unsustainable ROI at standard pricing ($0.50-$1.00/play); operators struggle to justify acquisition without high-volume locations or premium pricing power (confidence: high) — Discussion of $12k Labyrinth requiring substantial quarters at $0.50-per-credit split; Alan notes 'very rare to see anyone charging more than a buck a play anyway'
- **[business_signal]** Family-owned and co-operated arcade model (AJ + bakery owners/family) more sustainable for small markets than outside route operation; eliminates splitting revenue with third-party location (confidence: medium) — AJ pivoted from route to 100% dedicated operation at family bakery; rejected unfavorable split from unrelated bar owner; found lower overhead and full control valuable
- **[community_signal]** Player education via podcast (Wedgehead episodes 'So You Want to Play Pinball' and 'How to Talk to an Operator') successfully changing casual player behavior and communication with operators (confidence: medium) — Alan mentions receiving player feedback about broken slings after podcast episode aired; casual players acknowledged they became more respectful/aware after listening
- **[event_signal]** Pueblo pinball scene emerged from dormancy in ~3 years; grew from 8 tournament players pre-COVID to 25 average turnout post-launch, suggesting successful venue-based community building in previously underserved market (confidence: high) — AJ: tournament went from '8 people show up, if that' at bar with 3 games to '18 people' at bakery upstairs, now '25 people without trying' downstairs
- **[community_signal]** Wedgehead Podcast running 'Operator Spotlight' series and planning comprehensive 'pinball economics' deep-dive to educate community on operator ROI, splits, maintenance costs, and business viability (confidence: high) — Alan mentions working on pinball economics guide with thought experiments and examples to help players understand operator challenges
- **[design_philosophy]** Good operators adopt preemptive maintenance and personal play-testing approach; hypercritical of their own machines to catch marginal issues (dragging flippers, weak slings, playfield wear) before players notice them (confidence: high) — Alan: 'I'm hypercritical because of our own games' and works nightly to maintain game quality; AJ fixes games within 5 minutes of downtime; both prioritize marginal flipper/sling maintenance
- **[market_signal]** Denver area (1UP Arcade + outlying locations) saturated with LE/Premium machines; trend toward collecting LE editions driven by 'clout' rather than play quality, indicating luxury positioning and FOMO dynamics in larger markets (confidence: medium) — Alan and AJ discussing 1UP Arcade 'transferring to like the le's everything le everything special edition all the good stuff' as clout signal; both express skepticism about LE-heavy locations
- **[market_signal]** Regional operator splits shifting from traditional 50/50 to increasingly unfavorable-to-location rates (60/40, 75/25, 80/20 operator takes), driven by game acquisition costs and maintenance burden (confidence: medium) — Alan discussing split evolution: 'roads won't even do it for less than 60 40 his way' and mentions some operators at 80/20; AJ rejected 50/50 post-COVID
- **[market_signal]** Regional pricing variance: Pueblo operator charges $1.00/new game, $0.50/vintage; some Denver competitors undercutting at $0.75/new while maintaining lower quality; players perceive cheaper = better without understanding quality/maintenance correlation (confidence: medium) — AJ: 'there's some operators that try to undercut that'll be like that's everywhere here's the new brand new stern and it's 75 cents' but 'that thing sucks'
- **[sentiment_shift]** Growing frustration among operators with player entitlement and misunderstanding of operator economics; players blame operators for 'ripoff' setups (tight tilt, no extra balls) when these reflect operator business necessity and/or factory standards (confidence: high) — AJ: 'i have people bitching about it non-stop' re: extra ball settings; Alan characterizes it as 'entitlement' and notes players view operators as 'crooks' despite most being hobbyist pinheads

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## Transcript

 I called up my friend on the phone. I said, buddy, I'm afraid to be alone. Cause I got some weird ideas in my head about things to do. pueblo hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the wedgehead pinball podcast my name is alan host with the wedgehead pinball podcast one half owner of the portland pinball bar wedgehead for which the podcast is named joined in the basement studio my co-host alex the water boy He is not affiliated with the bar in any way, but he is our number one fan, and he provides the studio space for this podcast. I'd like to think I'm affiliated in some ways, but yeah, mainly just the podcast. Today, we're joined by our friend AJ, the owner of Flip A Coin Arcade, operating out of the Bite Me Bakery in Pueblo. I'm never, I'm going to just butcher this. Pueblo. Pueblo. Pueblo. Colorado. AJ, how are you doing? Good, how are you? We're doing well, man. You're located in Pueblo, which is about two hours or so south of Denver, which I know has a massive and kind of fast-growing pinball scene. Can you tell us more about Pueblo, where you're from, the local pinball scene there, and your arcade inside the Bite Me cake shop and bakery? We're about 120 miles south of Denver, just due south, I-25, straight down. Are you like an hour south of Colorado Springs? We're about 36 minutes to 45 minutes from Colorado Springs, somewhere in there. Gotcha. There's nothing in between Albuquerque to Denver, really. It's just us. I mean, there's a couple spots in Colorado Springs, but they suck. That's it. And then Denver has an amazing scene from Denver, the outlying areas, everything. I mean, there's so much good stuff. Like hundreds of games on location. Oh, yeah. It's ridiculous. One of the main places is 1UP Arcade. Right. They've been around forever. Like, they're one of the originals, you know. And, I mean, they have three locations. rumor is they might have a fourth one coming soon absolutely amazing you know they're slowly transferring to like the le's everything le everything special edition all the good stuff yeah we know the type why does that happen dude i don't understand why that happens looking for ways to spend more money yes it's a clout thing it's all clout yeah hold on i don't want to derail this whole podcast right at the beginning but it's like like is any okay people are impressed allen people are impressed by le's yeah like seriously people will like you'll see people on the online go and be like oh wow this place is great they got le's of everything like it grabbed people i don't get it either because all of us like playing pinball and if you play pinball it's the fucking same as a premium in i don't know the generalization i have and it sounds like this one up is different but it's like the places i've been to like when i was traveling to texas we went to the spot and all i had was le's and they all play like shit so i'm like oh this is that's most of them do when i see an le now or a row of le's i'm like oh this person doesn't know anything about operating pins like they just like had money and thought it would be a clout thing yeah i get it if it's like if you have like one or two if it's some theme that the owner of the place is fucking like all into if you're a huge godzilla fan you got a godzilla le sitting there whatever i'm like that's cool like he kind of like doubled down on something he loved but when you just buy an le of every stern coming out i really question the judgment well it seems like gets collector stuff dude it's like it's for a collector so when you see it on location you're like huh isn't this a premium that you just spend an extra what 5k for like why would you do that pretty powder coat yeah well i don't know i don't get it tell us more about this cake shop that you operate out of i want to hear more about pueblo okay and like how you start operating games before even operating so you're kind of in a pinball desert how'd you were you always into pinball or how'd you get into it? Yeah, I started real young. My uncle had games in his basement and it was like, we're kids, not allowed to play them. You know, every once in a while he's like, you know, here's some credits, play some games. I'm like, cool. So then growing up in a, with my family, like they were in bowling alleys, you know, there's an arcade down the street from my house. You know, we'd play whatever. You just grow up, you don't play for a while. And then all of a sudden you just go balls deep back into it and you're, you're playing again. the first game I ever played is Mata Hari. I have that Mata Hari, that actual Mata Hari from my uncle in my bedroom right now. Nice. Nice. It's our table for clothes. You know, we don't play it. We just stack clothes on it and it's a dresser, but it's that Mata Hari, like that specific Mata Hari. I've got my, my uncle's old, the, one of the first games I remember ever playing was my uncle's old Gottlieb Rock, like 1985 Rock. And I've got that in my basement now too. And it's just kind of funny having like those childhood games. Family heirloom. Yeah, I respect that it's in the bedroom, though. I don't think my wife would be down with that one with Rock anyway. Maybe if it looked like Mata Hari, but Rock would be a hard sell. Well, you got to see Alex's everyone. I'm going to put this on the podcast so he has to actually do it. Alex drew up an alternate backlash for Rock, but he's just he hasn't printed it yet or finalized it. And he did it all in MS Paint. And I think people would be really excited to see it. So hopefully by the time this podcast airs we can post this and you can contact alex for one of these i don't know i don't know no promises on that the arcade that i played at was down the street and i have the pinbot that came out of that place like that was like i hunted for pinbot and then we had a guy that a family friend of ours says hey i'm selling some games come look at him i'm like cool go over there and it's pinbot and i go where'd this come from he goes oh prc i'm like no he's like yeah and i bought it from him and that's the pinbot that i grew up playing like that's the one that was like that resonated with like everything the most you know i love robots and all that shit that's it so i have pinbot and it's matahari and pinbot in the house together you know and that's means a lot yeah it's pretty cool so tell us more about this your arcade is called flip a coin arcade but it's inside a bakery it's inside another business can you tell us about that business the bakery how you're related to it and then how you run an arcade out of a bakery i operated for a few years before everything and then covet hit and we had games in the bakery i operated just had the bakery six games upstairs before we had the basement covet hit and everything happened the whole world experience so uh i started me and the ones that own it i'm dating the daughter of the owners and her you know she's the owner too through the COVID time we're just kind of like we're like you know what we should do open a bar in the basement and it was just like kind of started as a joke and then it was like no like seriously we we should open a bar in the base we have the opportunity we have the games you know at that point I was already sitting like 35 games 40 games deep nice in the whole thing so I was like we don't have no startup costs besides like bar shit yeah building out the bar let's yeah half of it was already there because the building that we're in was a pizza place that had a comedy club in the basement oh yeah yeah so like the bar was there we just had to get like the kegerator the sinks a fridge you know like very minimal stuff we were able to do it out of our pocket and we started rolling with this we got the landlord to sign off and it was like what do you guys need to do he worked with us a little bit the next thing you know we're like loading games downstairs oh shit this is happening and then when we started loading games up there was uh still a lot of restrictions from covid like you had to wear the mask still you had to have be spaced apart so far and all that stuff and it just everything worked out absolutely perfect next year you know we're almost three years in to the basement so everything's based off base and covid you know so you really sort of launched like really hard launched the whole arcade after covid or during covid oh yeah that's wild that's a wild time we're talking COVID ended, like the whole restrictions ended and we got our liquor license and it opened up. It was the absolute perfect timing combination. Yeah, that's sick. That's so different than like almost every other arcade story you hear revolving around COVID. So that's kind of encouraging. That's cool. Yeah, it was just like you couldn't ask for better timing. It just worked out and it was, you know, we didn't have nothing like that here. It's been, oh man, 10, 15 years since any type of arcade besides like the few places that i operated out of had games and now i'm just i'm 100 here you know full dedicated here me and my girlfriend's dad have the bar you know everybody's involved it's a family affair true family business you know that's all we're surrounded by is family businesses it's cool how was the local scene how you know and in pueblo like how have they reacted to having an arcade like have you seen good growth have you been able to get people into pinball Like, were there pinheads that are like, oh, my God, thank God, you know, I've been in a pinball, but there's been nothing around? Or is it still like you got to teach people what pinball is? It's a little bit of everything. When we started, like, I was running tournaments at this place at a bar down the street with, like, three games. You'd have, like, eight people show up, if that. And it was all, like, friends and family, you know. And then you'd have, like, the casual players, and everything was, you know, just kind of whatever. And then things happen. Put games in the bakery. we started running tournaments like a few months before covid hit and we're getting like off six games 18 people show up in tournaments nice that's cool but it's so it's like now there's two places that we were able to play at besides like the the bowling alley down the street that has a busted ass you know world cup soccer that every time you hit replay it resets you know right what do you mean that's well adjusted by the operator there right like oh there must be an error here reset Yeah. You know, there's a monster back that had a hole, you know, the scoop. Oh, yeah. There's a hole that you could see into the speaker in the bottom of the cabinet. You know that. But that's that's whatever. We started like slowly growing with these two locations. Everything, you know, died. Stupid COVID. And then we come back and you see these people like, oh, this is a pinball place. oh this is a an arcade oh you have tournaments oh you you do this and it's just growing and growing and growing you know we're averaging like 25 people without trying at a tournament which is relatively good for a town of 100,000 people you know I'd say that's really good I mean there are weekly tournaments in Portland that don't draw that so really really and you guys have I mean everything up there you know it's like a different thing though it's like we have a thousand machines on location around the Portland Metro, there's a tournament or multiple tournaments every night of the week. So it is more of a like, there's a lot more players and a lot more tournament players, but there's, they're getting, you know, spread across more. Well, you have your people that pick your place. That's, that's their home place. Right. Yeah. And there's people that go to only certain spots or whatever. They live in certain parts of town and they don't go to other spots or whatever But so do you still have your route Like do you still route at that No Oh so you I 100 here Yeah I all in here What made you lose the route if you don mind me asking like what was the just it again it all coveted i could have went back the bar owner wanted a 50 50 split and i was like no i'm not even i would even like i would even think about it 60 40 at that point you know i totally the way everything is i don't need that place i have my own place now you know why can't do what i want my hours right uh what games I want in there, how I want to run things. I could focus all my time into one place. It actually made things a lot easier. Yeah, it makes sense. Running a route's hard. I mean, my business partner still runs a big route, but I just handle Wedgehead essentially. He's there sometimes, but I handle all the maintenance there. I'm the day in, day out guy that's there running Wedgehead and he still runs his route. But running a route is hard. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work and you have to split i want to touch on what you said a little bit there where you said 50 50 split for the listener maybe what you think you're hearing which is when an operator has games at a business that's not their own like they don't own the arcade or they don't own that bar but they have machines there what they do is they do a split with the business that's why the business owner like oh okay you can put these machines in here or whatever and we'll turn them on and off every day and we'll give quarters to patrons that come in or whatever and but they want a split the old school operator thing across the board was 50 50 meaning 50 for the business 50 for the operator i've been hearing that that's changing in certain regions yeah like i know in portland like roads won't even do it for less than 60 40 his way so the business gets 40 he gets 60 but i've talked to other operators off the record i won't blow them up here but they some people are getting like 75 25 even 80 20 so i know people who won't even talk to people for less than 80 20 which is interesting because like the thing is is like i understand it like as we do it it's like even if you're charging a dollar play for a new game and if you're only getting 80 cents of that dollar if you only get 60 cents of that dollar all of a sudden like and you're giving away free games and matches and all that kind of stuff if you've got the right location it can always i mean it can always be worth it if it's in like the perfect spot and you get in tons of volume game right like 100 it's like if you're a small margin place like not getting a ton of plays and it starts mattering a lot well not only that but if you have new games i mean when you're paying we're paying seven to say twelve thirteen thousand dollars for a game yeah trying to pay that it takes a lot of quarters to pay for that you know like you have to factor all that stuff in there too you basically can't i mean it's very rare to see anyone charging more than a buck a play anyway and so then it's like if you're making 50 cents per credit on a 12 grand labyrinth yeah like and you're listening to every customer going why is it a dollar play and you're right man i just like people just really don't understand it that's part of the podcast and part of these operator series is that i want people to understand better i tease it a lot on the show i am working on it but i have a pinball economics thing that i'm going to do that's going to dive deeper into numbers and give examples and give kind of thought experiments to put people in the shoes of like here's you buying a game here's you finding somebody here's you agreeing to a split here's number of plays that you would need and how long you would need to pay that game off here's how often you would expect to go out and fix this game all that kind of stuff and then be like does this all sound worth it for what you're getting yeah people don't understand that no it's a very strange thing where I hope it's changing because there are businesses, arcades around the country that are beloved and they have a scene. And, you know, we try to talk to some of them, like I know the Pops guys in Boston, they're beloved. Like I know the Electric Bat, they're beloved, right? We just talked to Waltz in LA, massive there. And, you know, like we have our following at Wedgehead. There's a lot of people out there. You see it on the forums and stuff. People will come out and they'll be like, they just think that operators are crooks. Like that's the biggest thing but look at back in the day back in the day sure yeah like i understand it's not that way anymore like most operators now are hobbyists as well yeah we're all pinheads but you have the people like we were talking earlier that have all le's no man you're not a just a dude with money yeah like we we care about it you know and it shows in our locations that we care about it because our games will play good you know if like here if i have a game go down i'm fixing that shit within like five minutes like I'm not gonna let it go down I'm I don't care if there's people around glasses coming off I'm fixing it you know but it also shows that oh well that's cool because they care they there's a problem and now they're fixing it right away you know I'm not gonna let that I'm not gonna let it go for two three weeks that's awesome especially I feel like it's important when you're kind of like the one growing the scene like you are and it's like you got to kind of represent pinball well it sounds like you do and I think that's a big reason that you've kind of found success, found a footing there. Because it's like, if you're the first barcade or whatever in a city where there isn't anything, and everyone's initial impression is games that don't play right and are breaking and stealing quarters and stuff, that's not fun. So I think that is really important. I think it's super important. You can always tell a good operator by how well the games play or how quickly they're addressed. Like, I do the same thing. Like, what you're talking about, we just actually got a puppy, my wife and I. So I've been changing my schedule a little bit but usually i work nights and like somebody sends me a message about a game or somebody tells me i'm right there with the soldering iron i'm opening up the glass in the middle of a fucking friday or saturday night fixing shit and then people look at it like it's a fucking magic trick dude i can't believe i just messaged this guy like two minutes ago and he's down here working on this game and fixing it that's the standard that's what i want that's what i want our bar to be when i go and i travel and i go play pinball it's like i look at places and i go i want to go play that game they have a quicksilver when i show up i want that quicksilver to be running dude it's right you know what i mean like like we choose where we go based on the games that they have so it's so bad when you show up to a place to play one or two games specifically especially if you've gone out of your way to go there and they're not playing i mean it sucks when they're down but we know that happens with everything what sucks worse is when they're just playing like shit and they're still up and you're like right it sucks yeah not giving it like fair shake it's i'm not gonna say my games are perfect but like we they're all running like there's not going to be a game off it's it's there's not going to be a dark game like it's if there is if it's bad enough we're pulling that shit out and putting something else in that's how we do it too i think that's the way you need to do it if you if your game needs serious work like brain surgery you need to do the thing where you need to move it on and right sort of like that's something that we have a huge location out next level who we mentioned on the show everyone already knows if you're listening to this podcast you've heard of this place massive great arcade full of hundreds of games and everyone goes out there and go wow there's no games ever turned off and i go yeah because they have a whole back room and you'll see a game go down and they'll wheel that fucker out and they'll put a new one in so like you don't ever see games down and that's like part of the owner's thing and i admire that about that space oh it's amazing you know what i mean because it's like it's so again it's like a magic trick dude they're doing a magic trick it's not that the games never break right because of course they break they break all the time but it's that you as the customer don't play broken games well it's you don't get the customers back if there's broken games like if they're not having a good time in those games they're not going to come back exactly if the game's constantly broke or pinball is not a get rich quick scheme like if you're operating games you have to love it Because to do all the work, like to clean it all the time and to do everything, like maybe the flippers work, but maybe they're not great. Like maybe one of them sticks a little bit every five or six flips. Maybe one's not strong enough to make the side ramp or something. Yeah. That level of like going in there as an operator, preemptively being a player in your own space and going, now got to rebuild this and prioritizing and taking the time to go through and do all those little things. That's not financially directly by coin drop. It's not financially motivating because you're going to get a couple extra quarters or whatever. Nobody's going to care. Right. Like the average person doesn't know. Yeah, they don't know. You could have a flipper dragging a little bit or sagging or whatever, and they're going to be like, oh, cool, but this thing pops up. They don't care that your flipper's fucked up. It's like, oh, look, there's the four balls going. How did I do that? Yeah, man. It'll keep you up at night yourself because your shit don't work. It's hard because I look at games with a different eye because I'm hypercritical because of our own games, and I want our games to play very well all the time. But that just means that I have to work on them every single day because there's always something else as they get played that breaks or wears out. And we have a large community and a lot of them will tell me. But there are some things that are like marginal that people like you're saying, like they don't notice. So they don't necessarily say it. I've mentioned it on the podcast before, but it's like people don't really. And I'm glad I did, because I was like, people don't really like to say, oh, the sling doesn't work or the slings are weak, because usually that means it's in the player's favor. so even if a player notices it and they're like oh well it's not firecrackering between the slings anymore and slam draining out the out lane and then i mentioned it on this show and i just got a message the other day that's like hey the sling on black knight doesn't seem to be popping as crazy as it used to and i pull it open it's got a broken arm and it's barely moving up and down when you hits the switch i was like dude thank god somebody listened to this show and was like oh i know alan wants to hear about broken slings i was like i absolutely want to hear about broken slings like the two episodes you guys had with the so you want to play pinball and then the how to talk to an operator like those are such key episodes that everybody needs to listen to like that those things need out there if you're a part of the pinball community you need to listen to those two episodes appreciate it man on its own you know like those are so important and i had like some of my casuals some of my players listen to it and they're like oh wow is that how we are I'm like, yeah, you're dead. You know? And they're like, well, I'll try better. I'm like, no, I'm just messing with you, but thank you. Yeah, totally. Like, we as a good operator, because I do have to clarify, we talk about operators, and we generally on this show, we're talking to good operators. And I like to think that I'm a good operator. Yeah. Yeah. But the thing is, is, like, we all need your feedback. like we have to have when something goes wrong in a game i need you to tell me this pop bumper isn't working this ramp isn't registering this flippers feels weak or whatever i need you to tell me that so i can go look at it the however like in that episode how to talk to an operator don't be accusatory yeah just be cool and be informative what happens sometimes is especially like on pinball map comments or something someone to go in there and just be like this leans further to the left than bernie sanders or they'll be like or they'll make like weird fucking jokes and you're just like i bet this operator doesn want you to have any fun that why you know this thing doesn work in the game you like they don they might not know that Just tell them They have them set up so they make all the money Yeah Yeah dude That's the whole thing is like, that's what I get back to about. You see it all the time, but there's a common thing of like somebody plays poorly or whatever. And they go, this operator's trying to rip me off. How come when I tried to do a death save, I tilted? That's bullshit. And you're like, no, you're bullshit. If you have to kick a game around to get a high score, then you're not really that good. And it's not the operators taking something away from you. Which brings me to something that I want to talk about because you and I speak a lot on social media, but I want to bring this to the show, which is pinball setup and setup of machines. The first thing I want to ask you is what's the going rate for a game of pinball? I know you operate games of all eras. Can you give us like what you charge for a game of pinball? And then two, I want you to tell me about extra balls. Nice. So everything, so new Sterns, new CGC, Labyrinth, Barrels of Fun coming out. I do not own any Jersey Jack or Spooky. So pretty much anything new is a dollar a game. Most games have the two for, or three plays for $2 bonus play. Okay, yeah. Old Fiction, straight a dollar a game. Labyrinth will probably be straight a dollar a game. Makes sense. Everything else, early solid state, alphanumeric solid state, or DMD are all 50 cents a game, straight up. Oh, nice. 50 cents. That's cheap. You have to. Everything outside of here is a dollar a game. For solid states? No, most solid states are probably, there's not really many. There's only maybe like one or two places that have solid states in the state right now. Yeah. You know, and they're like between 50 to 75 cents. You know, it's whatever. We're three balls straight up. Sure. You know, no bullshit. it i'm not playing five ball no more bullshit dude i agree like cheetah steel which is three balls 50 cents a game other than that that's i mean it's pretty cut and dry that's good and tell us about your extra ball philosophy and the and the blowback you get for it so i don't run extra balls in the basement upstairs in the bakery i run extra balls because it's more casual we don't run events you know weekly in the basement i don't run extra balls there's a couple games i run extra balls on and it's just because i found that if you turn them off it kind of messes with uh advancing through the game a little bit twilight zone i have extra balls on because it's hard to get to lost in the zone without it yeah i mean no i i've done it on three balls it's not oh mr good player over here aj is so good at it i'm joking dude i'm joking man but that makes sense if you've never finished top this guy does three balls he gets lost in the zone when you're playing that game constantly and that's the twilight zone you play you know how it works you know you just you get used to your own games yeah but that all makes sense especially if you're running events there a lot i think there's kind of a good reason to have eb's just disabled all the time and your games are also cheap enough that it's like i feel like there's i mean if you're doing three three plays for two bucks on every new game i'm like yeah three bucks for two games is 66 cents a play everybody yeah that's less than 75 cents a play i still have matches on i still have replays like replays are all factory like i keep all my settings factory okay except for your extra balls except for extra balls that's literally it and i have people bitching about it non-stop okay that's why i want to talk about is you you're asking me like do you keep extra balls on i was like obviously like we're at free play but even even on the route like we keep the factory extra balls on i've been told set a tighter tilt than is necessary so that's where we usually get bitched at especially on the route or if we charge a dollar for a game because there's some operators that try to undercut that'll be like that's everywhere here's the new brand new stern and it's 75 cents it's not a dollar and so like i can go play it over there and i'm like okay but that thing sucks i mean it's just like i don't know what to tell you man everyone wants like the quality but they don't want to pay for it and whatever and i'm just like i think that's what It is. It's entitlement. It's complete entitlement. And pinball players are the worst. They can be the worst, right? Like, they can be, they're the best. We're all pinball players. But at the same time, fuck those people. And I want to tell any listeners that are players, it's like, we love you. We need you as operators. No, we can't do it without you. We can't do it without you. But also, you can't do it without us. You want the same thing. It's a symbiotic relationship, like I've said on the show in the past. And all we want is we want to show you respect. You show our games respect. And you show us respect. And if you're the type of person that's going to bitch because you turned off extra balls, you're like, hey, man, I do a lot of tournaments and we can't play extra balls anyway. Just speed stuff along. Plus, I'm giving you a two for three discount on these games. So really, they're like 66 cents a play and they're new. So that's like way below market anyway. Yeah. So like if you're going to complain about the extra ball, I'm not ripping you off. Like that's just disrespectful. I'm not doing it to rip you off. I'm doing it because I don't want to go through and change them every like every day you know the basements only open Thursday night Friday and Saturday that's it oh then yeah that's all so one and you run a tournament every week if we're not doing league we're doing tournaments and it's either weekly or bi-weekly but leagues every week you know for eight to ten weeks whatever we decide to do that that shit then yeah like 50 of the time you're open almost you're I mean I guess a third of the time you're open you're gonna want the extra balls disabled there's no fucking way i'd be going through all the menus zero chance it's not that i'm trying to rip somebody off i just don't want to turn extra balls on like you can get a replay go anywhere else you're not going to get a replay go anywhere else it's going to be harder to get a match you know like everything's all factory settings you know the games that do have extra balls play the shit out of those enjoy them you know i give points if you get an extra ball i give you get points all my games give you points instead so it's not like you're not getting nothing yeah yeah totally i here's the thing man that's why we did that pinball setup episode too is like pinball players are anal dude they get into their heads and they get into this like it's got to be this it's got to be this pitch level it's got to be 6.5 degrees is they can't have a tilt bob on it because i like to slide it back and forth i should be able to match 50 of the time replays should be minuscule like i should be able to play all day on a dollar all this kind of bs that they always talk about and you're just like getting in the way of your own joy of enjoying pinball like all those things are settings for a reason outlane settings you guys are in pricing and stuff like that while we're on this topic you guys have some video games there right i know you don't have a ton but you have some classic arcades do they earn wow those things are fucking worthless that's what i was gonna ask i they piss me off every time i look at them i'm sitting here looking at a frogger right now and it just it makes me want to rage i'm always curious what like some places can clean up on arcades i don't know if the classic stuff ever really earns too much but it's kind of part of the vibe so i understand why you have it for like the attraction especially when you get like people coming in for the very first time it's a lot easier to sell them an arcade stuff that they remember playing it's i think i i truly think what a lot of the arcade thing like the appeal to the arcade is it's hey miss pac-man everybody knows miss pac-man you can live under a rock and know what miss pac-man is and then with pinball like i see like i've been operating for like 10 years what i've noticed is people don't want to look stupid playing they'll walk up to the game kind of like touch the flippers the buttons and they'll look at it and they'll be like you could see that they want to play but they won't play so sometimes i'll go put a credit on their farm and let them play it then they're the same person will walk to an arcade game and just play i mean you're just standing with their joystick it's and you're pushing from buttons you know yeah it's more approachable and it sounds kind of dumb to us that have been in the hobby for a while but it's like i have seen that before too and it's like i think pinball machines can be intimidating when you're starting out that's kind of why we did that episode you mentioned with like just starting out because it's like there's a lot of shit that you don't know until you know it it's obviously nothing to be afraid of and it's like you don't you shouldn't be afraid of looking dumb playing a pinball machine we all look fucking dumb playing pinball machines dude some of the best players in the world look extra dumb right like because they'll have like weird gear and headlamps and gloves and like all sorts of like goofy stances and stuff yeah yeah it's not for looking cool people get into no not at all none of us are cool no all a bunch of nerds pinball is not cool everybody it's not at all like we love it here's the thing pinball itself is cool pinball culture dumb like it's really corny straight trash and we all love it and i welcome anybody i love the pinball culture i love a bunch of guys getting really fucking mad that there's not enough guns on the new game that came out oh that's horrible they didn't do their childhood movie from 1980 justice because they cut the girl that they liked on the back glass or whatever i just love seeing people lose their shit and being like you know how fucking dumb you sound right now it's great it's like we're the coolest kids out of the group you know yeah small pond big fish we're the edgy group edgy dude we're out there saying it man we're speaking truth to power and i think that's what the arcade thing is is you just anybody could walk up they're very approachable everybody i mean played something one time in their life where pinball is like it's intimidating there's a lot of times it's intimidating i want to touch on a couple things as we get along in this conversation i want to make sure that we get to the one main thing i want to talk about is like your collections is pretty similar to ours at Wedgehead. You put games on the floor from early solid state games all the way up to the latest games from Stern. And you, like myself, also really like the 90s Bally Williams DMD games. I want to ask you about why you choose or how you choose the games you choose to operate. I try to ask all the operators this. Oh, man. A follow up to that is that you and I speak a lot, especially in regards to game selection. And you mentioned to me, and I want to get this on the podcast is you're like man sometimes i feel like i put all this time and effort and energy into a game and i put on the floor and then nobody plays it it hurts my feelings oh i get butt hurt i feel that so much like i 100 relate to that i mean it's the worst it's the worst it's the absolute worst can you tell the listeners about games you choose games you like and any games where that's happened to you i'm classic salt state you know give me give me a classic give me a classic stern all day long. Give me a System 11 all day long. I'll put those on. You know, everything else is just, yeah, cool. It's there. You could go anywhere throughout the country and play a new game. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, you can go anywhere. I don't want to be that place. You know, if you want to play all the new games, go to those other places, go to Denver, go to play all those new places. We're not about that. We like a variety. You know, we want to experience from, I'm not gonna say the beginning because i don't do ems i suck at working on ems i have no desire to own em maybe like one dude ems are cool dude you just haven't been in a long enough man it's gonna creep backwards i'm telling you dude i've had like 20 25 of them and i just can't we haven't had the right one i haven't had the right one are you buying those bally pieces of shit because those bally ems are trash dude we only support god leaves around i a god leave guy dude god leaves are the best I had them I had like three or four wedge heads oh no they cool but just carefully bro try carefully it just didn work for me i think one of them was um like kingpin or something like that yeah that's okay that's a good game yeah it's whatever um but i i would like to own a em just not here sure yeah i can see that the thing about them is once they're up and running and running well they run well solid yeah yeah it's just getting them there point yeah you go to the system 11s like right now i have uh swords of fury downstairs and there's people that are literally like yelling lion man yeah totally you'll hear him like walking up the stairs i'll be upstairs doing something and you hear lion man lion man you know like that shit's cool yeah dude scott tenisi loves swords of fury lion man when i had him sign a poster for us at the texas pinball festival in 2019 he signed it Scott Danesi the lion man so i'll have to send you a picture on the instagram with Scott Danesi he's sending my boobs it was a good time scott's scott's a man of the people dude i love scott dude he's the best he makes some of the best modern pinball machines he does yeah he does he's awesome tna is a piece of work you know that's a piece of art right there he's one of us you could tell he likes the old games yeah but you go into like the uh let's go wpc era there's some solid games like yeah you get the ball saves you get a play you get all the like the bells and whistles and stuff but it's solid ass gameplay yeah those layouts are wild dude the layouts from the wpc era you look at those compared to a stern and people like wow these new Keith Elwin designs what a fucking departure and i was like you're like this has nothing on congo yeah look at whitewater dude what a fucking layout doctor who look at that layout whitewater's fucking amazing yeah it's so good it's visually amazing then you get into the early sterns like i have a lot of early um like early 2000 sterns dmdr stern i think that's kind of a fun era if i was an operator i always say this and i'm like if i was an operator i'd be scooping up as many like mid-2000 sterns as i could while they're still kind of cheap oh they're reliable as hell they are reliable yeah getting started they're a ton of fun like when i started playing i mean it's kind of a running joke on here but it's like i started playing pinball and i had a nascar in town i just fucking love nascar man and it's like it's not a bad game i'm like there's those games are fun nascar is one of the games no joke that got alex into pinball it's not popeye but hey yeah it's no pop and like you've got a pirates of the caribbean right and that thing fuck yeah we just we moved it downstairs that game rules that game's way more fun than you'd think i don't know dude the kraken the kraken and the ship are just sick that's one of the coolest mechs in football yeah when it's working think about if that game came out now people would be flipping shit over that game like oh did you see that no now we get like a buck that they're like oh that's rad has it ball comes out of the car like again the buck the fucker the buck this thing had a pro this thing had a ship that moved in multiple spots you know yeah man and it's got that spinning disc that tortuga up there and they let norman do whatever the fuck he wanted with his plastic for once yeah Dennis Nordman g love denny he's the man that game's a bait but like even spider-man i got spider-man sitting up here right now love spider-man spider-man it's a game solid game too so good yep Steve Ritchie dude yeah it's great king great game they call him the king for a reason but any in particular that you remember like because you i guess something else that we wanted to talk about is you like go through and do do full restorations and like paint you know you do full stents of work on cabinets all kinds of crazy shit to solid states are there any that you really like put your heart and soul into and people just were like fuck this game i ate it No, none of that stuff's been out. Like all. Okay. Go through a game. That stuff, like I'm horrible at finishing a game. I've been working on a galaxy for two years. That sounds like a car project. Yeah. You guys know Tommy Skinner? Yeah. No, I don't know the name. This flipping podcast. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. North End Pub in Indiana. And then you have a John from Inner Orbit. You know, those guys, I talk to those guys on a daily basis. You know, there's like two of my best friends. Amazing people. but them assholes talked me into building a stargazer oh yeah the slippery slope everybody's like oh it's easy bro just build a stargazer from scratch yeah yeah they're like just we could do it you could do it i was like and then i started getting into it's like yeah you know what if i if you guys could do i could definitely do this yeah no no slam on them i love those guys but how's the star how's the stargazer build going slow yeah it'll be worth it that's genuinely one of my favorite games of all time and i'm just like i'm waiting for one to pop up i do not want to build one myself but the longer we go see he's trying to infect the aj's trying to infect you spread the pain man this feels so much like car guys always lure each other into doing some more stupid fucking projects too and it's like hey your car already doesn't run why do you want my car to not run too but everybody wants their buddies to get into that like i'm a car guy like by blood i'm a car guy you know that's what i do for a living is automotive or auto body repair okay that's my day job like i've been very involved with car shows and all that kind of stuff my whole life now i'm building my games to like car show standard that's what i was going to say that starts making sense why you're like yeah because you're trying to do this to a professional you're taking playfields you're clear coding them you're clear coding the cabinets and stuff and the heads and like it's yeah it's absolutely fucking stupid it's stupid the pictures you've sent me i was like This is such insane overkill, and it's awesome. Like, and it's all on games that I love, so I'm just like, yes, dude, I love this. My dad is really into pinball with me. You know, like, me and him are side by side all the time. We work together daily, and it's all of us talking about, like, pinball. But it's like, what game are we going to do next? I don't know, man. Let's finish a game. Like, we've got to finish a game. We should do this. We should restore this. We're like, no, we should finish one. We did a space station. we restored a space station and if it wasn't for my dad you know like he absolutely just his attention to detail is it's crazy like he's he's so detail oriented and this thing's a piece of art super fun that's a barry oustler game for people that are listening from the good one too great one a sequel to space shuttle it's got sick little like it it doesn't have inlanes it's a good one yeah it's a really fun game we took that game to one of the shows the the local denver show and Barry was there and I have like pictures of Barry playing that all weekend and then we sat and talked with him and he was like that's the best space station I've ever played and it's like people just there's people oh did you bring a space station this year nah I didn't bring it oh man we're hoping to play the thing like and it's all my dad it's 100% my dad that's like it's awesome it's him it's him 100% you know his if it wasn't for him I'd probably just be another hack dude that's awesome barry alsler played it he's the designer of the game he got to play it and he's no longer with us so he passed away barry was a great guy you know i miss that guy that's awesome what a great story i want to finish this episode and i want to ask you what's something you wish that location players understood about the business of operating thin balls that they don't and do you have any worst customer ever type stories or pet peeves that you care to share it'd be nice if your players or customers or whatever would understand that we're not here to screw you we're letting you beat up on our expensive machines yeah like yeah totally if i worried about like screwing you i wouldn't be in this business i'd be doing something else like i'm not doing this because i'm making a ton of money i'm doing this for my passion for the thing you know i'm letting you play my collection and i'm doing the best i can and i'm sure you know A lot of hobbyists are. I'm sure you guys are the same way. We're trying to give you guys the best experience possible. Yeah, I think that's the thing about most modern operators is that, like you said earlier, it's like, we're all hobbyists. We're not the guys, and on this show in particular, because they still exist. Those big box operators that operate jukeboxes and pool tables and have these routes that they drive four hour radius of their routes or whatever and stop by once a month. They don't fix shit and they don't care about how the game plays as long as it takes quarters or whatever. We're not that. And the people that were interviewing on this show aren't that. And the beauty of modern pinball and the resurgence of seeing more location pinball around us is we're getting a lot of people that are just like, hey, we're all pinball guys. We got some machines, but there's nowhere to play. Like, let's fucking start a place. Start a place. You know, like, and then you get just a bunch of people that come in and they go, man, why are you charging this much? Why are you ripping me off? How come it doesn't have an extra ball? Why is the tilt so tight? Like, it's just all this bullshit because they think that you're, you know, somehow like, you know, living fat off the hog off their, you know, 50 cents a play or whatever. We're working like three jobs to do this. I know, too. Yeah, man. No, it's whatever. It's, you know, I love it. I like the abuse. I did the thing where, you know, I posted a while ago where I was like, hey, you know, some people say that the best part about pinball is the people. But definitely the worst part about pinball is the people. Oh, that's true. Both of those things are true. I met some of my best friends and some of my favorite people in the world, and nobody really likes to talk about it fully, although if you go on any pinball forum, you'll see it in full force. Some people are the fucking worst. Not everybody's for everybody. But I want to end this episode, which is, if you're in Colorado or anywhere near where you're driving through, you need to stop at Flip A Coin Arcade, Play some of these pinball machines. Play some of AJ's games. Play some of the old Sterns. You know, the old Solid State Stern games that are his babies so you don't hurt his feelings. Puts a lot of work and effort into those. He really likes those games. So it's not so cool when you're playing the new Jaws Stern. And you're like, this game's so much better than those old shitty Sterns. Play Cheetah. Play Cheetah, dude. Cheetah's the best. It is. He's just fucking rad. And it's so rare to play on location. So go play Cheetah at Flip A Coin. for everyone else that's listening, go out, support your local operators, play some pinball on location. And the next time you give them a tech alert, definitely do it, but also tell them that they're doing a great job and you appreciate what they do. Because sometimes we do like to hear that and it's not something that everyone hears all the time. With that being said, I want to thank everyone for listening. I want to thank AJ for joining us. And until next time, good luck. Don't suck. But the string's already broken And he doesn't really care It keeps changing fast and it don't last long With the Colorado Rocky Mountain High I've seen it rain and fire in the sky The shadow from the starlight is softer than a lullaby Rocky Mountain High I love you, I know.

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: aa14ef31-994b-4b7d-b428-802685f99c98*